Modern Love: Tessa Thompson on Finding What You Want (What You Really, Really Want)

Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Anna Martin
Guest: Tessa Thompson
Episode Theme: The tensions between societal expectations and authentic desire, with Tessa Thompson reflecting on her role as Hedda Gabler, the idea of leaving relationships (and marriages), and the search for self.

Episode Overview

In this episode, Anna Martin sits down with acclaimed actor and producer Tessa Thompson to discuss her new film adaptation of Henrik Ibsen's Hedda Gabler, her personal resonance with the character, and the complex interplay between autonomy, relationships, and societal roles for women. Tessa also reads the Modern Love essay Married But Dancing By Myself by Teresa Link, sparking a candid conversation about what it means to make life choices that truly fit, the wisdom that can come from failed relationships, and the transformative power of being alone.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who is Hedda Gabler? Why play her now?

• [01:31–03:58]

  • Iconic, Complex Female Role: Tessa describes Hedda as "the original chaos agent" and relishes Hedda’s decisiveness compared to Hamlet's famed indecision.
  • Societal Constraints & Adaptation: This adaptation situates Hedda in 1950s UK, a context where women are being "put back in the kitchen" after wartime freedoms.
  • Intersectionality: Thompson’s Hedda is a Black woman; she discusses how Hedda’s ambitions also include "proximity to whiteness" for social advantage (05:21).

  "In the original source material... Hedda says herself, for once, I want control over a man's destiny. I think she's a woman who's struggling." —Tessa Thompson [03:20]

  • Sexual Identity & Bohemia: The adaptation gives Hedda a female ex-lover, Eileen (formerly Lovborg), and explores struggles around identity, autonomy, and belonging.

2. Interpretation of Hedda as a Modern Woman

• [03:58–08:19]

  • Restlessness and Purpose: Tessa pushes back on readings of Hedda as just "bored": "I think what she is is struggling for a sense of real purpose" (04:07).
  • Cultural and Internal Barriers: Not just society, but personal fear holds Hedda back; she cannot live authentically and thus sabotages herself and others.

  "She's someone that's deathly afraid to live the life she knows she wants... she cannot take agency... she also doesn't want anyone else to." —Tessa Thompson [07:52]

3. Personal Resonance and Reflections on Motherhood

• [08:23–13:30]

  • Impact of Ibsen’s Work: Reading A Doll’s House as a teenager, Tessa realized that motherhood is an active, daily choice, not a foregone conclusion (09:32).
  • Challenging Cultural Assumptions: She shares the profound effect of seeing women (like Nora and Hedda) who "just decide" to leave, even without abuse.
  • Aspirational Rebellion: Thompson admires Ibsen’s women for their desire to live fully, even if it means making messy, disruptive choices.

  "Even today, in 2025, when you make a story about a woman deciding [to leave]... it's still controversial." —Tessa Thompson [08:43]

4. Modern Love Essay: "Married But Dancing By Myself" by Teresa Link

• [16:34–27:16]

  • Essay Highlights:
    • Trope of "Acquisition" in Marriage: Teresa’s marriage began as a practical arrangement and drifted into conventionality, losing her sense of self.
    • Transformation Through Loneliness: Rediscovering herself post-divorce, Teresa realizes loneliness can be productive, sparking creative work and self-acceptance.
    • Redefining Failure: The failed marriage leads both partners closer to their true selves and more fitting lives.

  "Unhappily married people live with a particularly viral strain of loneliness. And the interesting thing about loneliness is that it forces you to confront yourself." —Teresa Link, read by Tessa Thompson [26:56]

5. Discussing the Essay: What Constitutes a "Failed" Relationship?

• [28:31–30:41]

  • Shifting Perspective on "Failure": Tessa reframes relationships that end as productive, not disastrous; each step is a move toward authenticity.

  "You cannot fail... every step is a step in the direction... the only failure is maybe inside of a relationship, to not try to show up as yourself." —Tessa Thompson [30:09]

  • Societal Pressure: The expectation to have "it all figured out" intensifies with age, especially for women.

6. On the Value and Challenges of Being Alone

• [31:49–33:32]
  • Personal Experience: Tessa values solitude, saying "it has always felt better to be alone than to be in a partnership where I feel lonely."
  • Relationships as Growth: Ideally, partners can change together and allow for evolving selves, but solo periods foster crucial self-knowledge.

7. Matchers vs Balancers: Choosing Partners for Growth

• [34:17–37:36]

  • Matching vs Complementing: Discussion of relationships with those similar ("matchers") vs those who challenge and complement ("balancers").
  • Benefits and Struggles: Tessa now embraces relationships with difference and sees challenge as beneficial.

  "That kind of partnership that stretches you and challenges you and expands your world ... that's something that I personally really think is beaut and am enjoying." —Tessa Thompson [35:15]

8. Self-Confrontation and Authentic Desire

• [37:53–40:52]

  • Aloneness as Inquiry: Time alone is vital for honest questioning—"Are these my desires, or ones handed to me by society?"
  • Attitude Towards Marriage: Tessa’s views on marriage evolved over time ("now I find it's great"), appreciating it as a conscious, supported choice rather than an obligation.

  "I think one of the discoveries during that time... was that actually, like, I had always thought I was someone that maybe like, oh, marriage, marriage. I think it's cool, actually." —Tessa Thompson [39:55]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "She's not the female Hamlet, she's the female Hedda. Or maybe Hamlet is the male Hedda." —Tessa Thompson [02:41]

• "Every day my mom is deciding to continue to be a mom. It's not a foregone conclusion, actually." —Tessa Thompson [09:32]

• "Unhappily married people live with a particularly viral strain of loneliness." —Teresa Link, essay read by Tessa Thompson [26:56]

• "It has always felt better to be alone than to be in a partnership where I feel lonely." —Tessa Thompson [32:43]

• "You gotta find your matcher friends and get out there." —Tessa Thompson [37:36]

Important Timestamps

• [01:31] — Tessa on why she's drawn to the role of Hedda
• [03:08] — The duality of Hedda’s desires: security vs. freedom
• [05:21] — Hedda and proximity to whiteness, race as social mobility
• [07:52] — Hedda’s inability to choose for herself and harming others
• [08:43] — The radicalism of women who leave marriages
• [16:34–27:16] — Tessa reads "Married But Dancing By Myself"
• [28:31] — Tessa and Anna reflect on "failure" in relationships
• [32:43] — Tessa on enjoying aloneness and authenticity
• [34:17] — Matchers vs balancers in love
• [37:53] — On confronting oneself and questioning internalized desires

Conclusion

This thoughtfully candid episode stands out for Tessa Thompson’s vulnerability and sharp insight into how women’s lives, ambitions, and desires are shaped—and sometimes suppressed—by external and internal forces. Her reading of "Married But Dancing By Myself" is a moving anchor for the conversation, prompting both guest and host to explore the gifts of solitude and the importance of honest self-interrogation when searching for what one really, really wants.

Recommended for listeners interested in:

• The complexity of leaving vs. staying in relationships
• How societal expectations intersect with personal choice, race, and gender
• Finding fulfillment both inside and outside of partnerships
• Thoughtful, emotionally intelligent conversations about modern love

Listen to the full episode via the New York Times website or your favorite podcast app.