The Love Poem Andrea Gibson Wrote for Their Widow...and for You

Summary

Modern Love Podcast Summary

Episode: The Love Poem Andrea Gibson Wrote for Their Widow...and for You
Host: Anna Martin
Guest: Megan Fowley
Date: November 5, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Modern Love centers on the profound, playful, and poignant relationship between poets Megan Fowley and the late Andrea Gibson, who passed away from ovarian cancer in July 2025. Anna Martin invites Megan to share stories of loving, losing, and remembering Andrea—exploring how poetry, humor, intimacy, and mortality shaped their partnership. Through heartbreak and gratitude, Megan reveals how Andrea's legacy—and their love—continues after death, culminating with the reading of Andrea’s poem, “Love Letter from the Afterlife.”

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Grief, Language, and Unanswerable Questions

• On being asked, “How are you?” after losing Andrea
  • Megan expresses discomfort with the standard condolence (“How are you?”), saying it “feels like a thimble at the mouth of a river" trying to contain overwhelming grief.
    • Notable Quote (03:36):

      “How are you does not feel like an adequate container for the answers… it feels like a thimble at the mouth of a river.” — Megan Fowley

• Preferred approach:
  • Megan suggests instead: "Tell me a story of something that’s happened in your life recently that feels like it… grazes some part of what you’re experiencing." (04:25)

2. Meeting and Falling in Love: “The Gay James Dean”

• Travel back to their first spark:
  • Megan recalls meeting Andrea “on the dance floor” at the National Poetry Slam.
  • An unconventional, electric moment: Andrea licked Megan’s sweat in a club, signaling playful desire (07:42–08:28).
  • Megan shares honest insecurity about her body, believing Andrea (“the gay James Dean”) wouldn’t choose her—until she did.
    • Notable Quote (11:56):

      “After that moment, there has not been a day in my life where I have not spent a majority of the day thinking about Andrea… It really rearranged, I think, a lot of my ideas about myself.” — Megan Fowley

3. The Relationship: Creativity, Play, and Goofiness

• Behind the scenes:
  • Their bond thrived on play and laughter: living room dance shows, parody songs, inside jokes, and even Andrea literally peeing their pants from laughter (14:10).
• Loving gestures:
  • Meaningful, poetic exchanges:
    • Megan gives Andrea 40 birthday gifts (“one for every year that they missed” at age 40).
    • Andrea stitches poems into pillowcases, makes mix CDs (15:24–16:54).

4. Hardship, Crisis, and Recommitment

• Before diagnosis:

  • The couple struggles: pandemic isolation, personal numbing, and distance nearly end their relationship.
  • Upon Andrea’s diagnosis (ovarian cancer), Megan becomes resolute about staying (“I’m not going anywhere,” 19:43–21:35).
    • Notable Quote (21:41):

      “Even through our hardest times, I always held this image of us that I felt like already existed on the horizon… just didn’t know how we got there.” — Megan Fowley

• After diagnosis:

  • Overnight, their relationship transforms—falling “more in love than ever” with renewed intimacy, awareness, and presence (23:18–24:00).

5. Facing Mortality & Intimacy Redefined

• Andrea’s approach:

  • Andrea forgoes typical bucket-list urges in favor of “living with an open heart… without worry, fear, and blame” (26:51).
    • Notable Quote (27:00):

      “I am doing what has always been on the top of my bucket list… to live with an open heart and to live without worry and fear and blame… I’m doing exactly what I’ve always wanted.” — Andrea Gibson (as relayed by Megan Fowley)

• Intimacy during illness:

  • Physical intimacy flourishes in new ways as Andrea’s body changes through chemo, with Megan highlighting an “increased depth” rooted in vulnerability and love beyond the physical (29:03–32:35).
    • Notable Quote (30:34):

      “It wasn’t just sex, but a real understanding of touching into eternity in two very mortal bodies… The vulnerability… there’s a vulnerability there that I never actually acknowledged.” — Megan Fowley

6. Hope, Optimism, and the Struggle to Stay Light

• Megan’s optimism:

  • Megan describes herself as relentlessly hopeful; this sometimes made Andrea feel alone with their own despair, a dynamic Anna highlights (33:27–35:36).

• The pressure of enlightenment:

  • Once Andrea reached a “moment of grace and awakening,” it became a barometer—prompting disappointment when reality didn’t match that high.
    • Andrea’s desire: “I just want to be in the palm of God.” (35:36)

• Processing feelings:

  • Megan questions the difference between denial and true presence, believing she was “just living” and not wasting time on anticipatory grief (38:15).

7. Loss, Ritual, and Carrying Andrea Forward

• Andrea’s passing:

  • Andrea’s last days were marked by unexpected silence (sedation) before death; Megan receives a song (“Hold Down the Fort”) with lyrics Andrea wrote—a parting message (44:37).
    • Memorable Lyric:

      “Hold down the fort, ‘cause I’ve got to go. Light on the water will carry me somehow… I had it all, I had you.” — Lyrics by Andrea Gibson

• After death:

  • Megan describes sleeping on Andrea’s side of the bed, spreading some ashes at a writers’ retreat, and realizing:

    “Maybe it’s not about finding Andrea everywhere I go, but bringing them everywhere I go.” (48:47)

• On identity:

  • Megan doesn’t want “to be separated from this story.” Andrea, and their love, are “stitched into my spine…my new genetic makeup” (51:11).

---

Poetic Legacy: “Love Letter from the Afterlife”

[53:02] Megan reads Andrea Gibson’s poem, written for her and anyone grieving.

• The poem’s voice assures:

  “Dying is the opposite of leaving… I am more with you than I ever was before.”

• It offers comfort:

  “Why did no one tell us that to die is to be reincarnated in those we love while they are still alive?”

• Closing thought:

  “One day you will say it too. I can’t believe I ever thought I could lose you.”

• Megan’s reflection:

  • “It was written for you… for anyone who’s lost somebody to be able to give voice there.” (56:52)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “How are you?” as a “thimble at the mouth of a river” — Megan Fowley [03:36]
• “I’m not going anywhere. We are meant to do this together.” — Megan Fowley [21:35]
• Redefining the present moment and denial:

  “I don’t necessarily know the difference between being in denial or just being in the present moment.” — Megan Fowley [38:15]

• On bringing Andrea everywhere:

  “Maybe it’s not about finding Andrea everywhere I go, but bringing them everywhere I go.” — Megan Fowley [48:47]

---

Key Segment Timestamps

• [03:14] Megan on why “How are you?” fails to capture grief
• [07:42] First spark with Andrea (“the dance floor” story)
• [14:10] On their private silliness and shared creative life
• [19:43] Relationship crisis and diagnosis
• [27:00] Andrea’s bucket-list philosophy
• [30:34] Intimacy, sex, and vulnerability through illness
• [35:36] Andrea’s search for enlightenment (“palm of God”)
• [44:37] Receiving Andrea’s last love song, “Hold Down the Fort”
• [53:02] Reading “Love Letter from the Afterlife”

---

Tone and Final Reflections

The conversation is raw, honest, and often joyfully irreverent, marked by poetic language, humor, and deep affection. Megan’s reminiscences are both heartbreaking and luminous, full of gratitude for a once-in-a-lifetime love. The episode offers listeners solace, hope, and a vision of how the dead are carried forward in our lives—and how poetry can give voice to what’s often unsayable.

---

End of Summary

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

Mont Blanc invites you to use life's quiet moments to pause, reflect, and put pen to paper.

[Anna Martin]

Chapter one. Oh, no, no, no, no. Part one.

[Megan Fowley]

Mmm.

[Mont Blanc Voice]

Perfect.

[Megan Fowley]

The mountains are impressive. Oh, I wish you were here to see them.

[Anna Martin]

Dear diary, meet my new writing companion, the Meister.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Stuck for every journey, the perfect companion awaits Mont Blanc. Let's write. Visit montblanc.com for exquisitely crafted writing instruments, leather goods, and more.

[Anna Martin]

Hey, everyone, it's Anna. Look, Thanksgiving is coming up already. I can hardly believe it. You can hardly believe it, but it's around the corner. And for a lot of people, Thanksgiving means seeing your family, which can be wonderful, but it can also be tricky. So if you're going to see your family this holiday season, we want to help. Is there anything you could use some advice on? Like, for example, is there always a fight that comes up and you want to avoid it this year? Or maybe someone's passed away and it's going to be tough without them and you'd like tips on how to navigate that. Or maybe you're bringing home a new partner and you're afraid it's going to be awkward. If you're looking for advice on any of these questions or other questions about dealing with your family, send us a voice memo explaining your situation and asking your question. You can send it to modernlovepodcastytimes.com that's modernlovepodcastytimes.com we look forward to hearing from you. Love now and did you fall in love last?

[Andrea Gibson (voice or referenced)]

Just tell her I love her for.

[Megan Fowley]

Love, but stronger than anything for the.

[Anna Martin]

Love love and I love you more than anything.

[Narrator/Announcer]

There's to love love.

[Anna Martin]

From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Today I'm talking to Megan Fowley. Fowley is known as an award winning poet and is the partner of the poet laureate of Colorado, Andrea Gibson. This past July, Gibson died after four years of living with ovarian cancer. And I distinctly remember the day Andrea passed. My social media was flooded with all of these heartfelt tributes to them. People reposting their poems, talking about what those poems meant to them, how they helped them, and really dark times. It was so clear how much people felt this loss. And that made sense. Andrea Gibson was all about feeling things and feeling them deeply. They even sold merch that said things like feelings are not the enemy. And in their time together, it seems like Andrea Gibson and Megan F. Explored just about every emotion two people can have together. Andrea and Megan's deeply moving love Story is the focus of a new documentary called Come See Me in the Good Light. And even though by the end of this movie I was really in tears, what hit me was just how much joy these two poets radiated. On today's episode of Modern Love, I talk with Megan about what it was like to love fiercely, even when she knew she was going to lose, and how, despite Andrea's passing, they are very much still here. Megan Fowley, welcome to Modern Love.

[Megan Fowley]

Thank you. I am really excited to be here.

[Anna Martin]

Megan, you recently wrote an essay called Don't Ask a Widow this. And in it you mention not wanting to be asked the question, which I was tempted to start the interview with, but which I'm not going to anymore. You don't want to be asked this question. How are you? Why don't you want that question?

[Megan Fowley]

I think as somebody who reveres language as much as I do, how are you? Does not feel like an adequate container for the answers. The truth, the magnitude of the experience of having just lost my partner. And I think what I ended up writing was that the question how are you? Feels like a thimble at the mouth of a river. That's how small it is. Trying to catch something so big and rushing and vibrant and not static, and it just really falls short.

[Anna Martin]

What's the question you prefer?

[Megan Fowley]

It's quite possible that somebody who wasn't a writer would find this to be a really odd question. But I think the idea of, like, tell me a story of something that's happened in your life recently that feels like it not even captures, but grazes some part of what you're experiencing right now.

[Anna Martin]

I'm writing that down and to turn it right back to you, my friend. And so I will just ask, can you tell me a story from your life that grazes some part. I love that word, graze some part of what you've been through. Leah, I wonder what comes up today on this day.

[Megan Fowley]

Today on this day. You know, I wish I had a slightly different answer, but I will answer from today on this day, which is that I was just at a hedge book writing residency, which is a retreat for women writers on Whidbey island off the coast of Washington, and women in cottages. And it's about radical care. So you can just focus on your creativity and disconnect from the Internet and cell phones and be among creatures in nature and build yourself a fire every morning. Yes.

[Anna Martin]

I mean, that's just bliss. So everything you're saying, I'm like, yes. And yes, radical care in a cottage.

[Megan Fowley]

I'M walking through the.

[Anna Martin]

I mean, yeah, Sounds like exactly what I want to be doing.

[Megan Fowley]

Okay.

[Anna Martin]

We're just there.

[Megan Fowley]

And part of the reason that I said yes, besides it being heaven, was that I thought that in that space, I would really be able to connect to Andrea. I thought in the quiet, disconnected from cell service, in nature, not distracted with work, that Andrea and I would be in this ongoing cosmic conversation of sorts. And when I was there, I did not feel them at all. It felt almost like a rejection from any romantic part. It felt like I'm being ghosted by a ghost, maybe. Exactly. That's what I was gonna say. The true meaning of that word. Wow. And so it was really disappointing for me. And I felt scared that I wouldn't connect to Andrea again. And I just didn't know what it would look like. But I continued to read there and write there and work on my manuscript. And poems came, and I was painting, which I'm not even a painter, but my creativity was coming back to me. And then I imagined that Andrea was there, hiding in the corner somewhere and waiting for me to realize that I didn't go to find them, but I came to find myself.

[Anna Martin]

I want to shift gears somewhat. I know you two met in the poetry world, but when was the first moment that you felt proverbial sparks?

[Megan Fowley]

Yeah. We were at the National Poetry Slam. We'd been friends for a long time. We were on the dance floor, and Andrea would want me to tell everybody not to try this move at home and that their particular level of coolness and charm and my weird receptibility toward this is the only reason it works. So don't try to do this. You might. This is a long disclaimer. Somebody might call HR I don't. Andrea wiped their hands. Cause I sweat when I dance. And Andrea wiped their hands down my arms and. And licked their hands in this dirty ass nightclub. And.

[Anna Martin]

Yes.

[Megan Fowley]

Wait, hold on. Okay, let's back it up.

[Anna Martin]

Even I want to actually get a sense before this moment.

[Megan Fowley]

Who were you?

[Anna Martin]

Who were they? What was their reputation to you?

[Megan Fowley]

We were writers on the same press. But Andrea's career was massive. Everyone, any poet in the world knew who Andrea was. But their performances were at rock clubs. They were touring. Like a musician tours. It was not a small reading in a cafe or a bookstore. It was rowdy.

[Anna Martin]

Sold out theaters.

[Megan Fowley]

Yeah, yeah, sold out. Lying around the door, you know, just people. You'd watch and people would mouth along the lyrics to all of Andrea's words. It was some mix of, like, a party and A church and a safe haven. And it. Yeah, I'd never seen anything like it.

[Anna Martin]

Did you feel any kind of energetic tug between you, or was it sort of like, there's Andrea the rock star? You know, like, what was the energy between you two?

[Megan Fowley]

How I viewed Andrea was that they could date anybody that they wanted to date. We called them the gay James Dean.

[Anna Martin]

Kind of stiffened their hair at certain points. Yeah, totally.

[Megan Fowley]

Uh huh. They could anybody that they wanted to be with. I just assumed that that would be feasible for them. I have had lifelong body image issues and struggles, and I. I just. I didn't think that they would choose me. And turns out Andrea loved a curvy woman. I mean. Yep, okay, I was in.

[Anna Martin]

Laugh.

[Megan Fowley]

You were in.

[Anna Martin]

And you found out during a night, a sweaty night on a dance floor, Andrea approaches, runs their hands down your sweaty arm, and then licks the sweat off their hand. Were you. How did you react?

[Megan Fowley]

I. I was in shock, but also laughing and continuing to dance and just sort of felt the molecules of my brain rearrange themselves where I'm like, wait, what just happened?

[Anna Martin]

Was there something that. When you said your brain was rewiring, was there something that, like, wasn't connecting here and not computing for you? Like.

[Megan Fowley]

Well, when we. We went back to the. We all collectively, as a group, walked back to the hotel and I saw our mutual friend Katie in. In the elevator. And I, like, ran into the elevator just so I could have a moment to talk to her. And I told her everything that happened.

[Anna Martin]

Told about the sweat incident.

[Megan Fowley]

Yes. Thinking she would be like, whoa, that's what? And she was like, oh, I'm not surprised. I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, she'd call the Entrea Dre. She said, dre has had a crush on you for years. And then I was like, what? I thought I was hearing her wrong.

[Anna Martin]

To find out Andrea had a crush on you, what was that like?

[Megan Fowley]

I. That would have been, I think, about 12 years ago. But I will say, after that moment, there has not been a day in my life where I have not spent a majority of the day thinking about Andrea. Wow. It was. Yeah, it really rearranged, I think, a lot of my ideas about myself. And I know they say that you have to love yourself before somebody can love you, but I do love to say that I do also think there was something about Andrea loving me that this person who I was like, oh, you could have your pick of the litter then kind of picking me where it opened my eyes to the idea of loving myself as is. If Andrea was loving me as is.

[Anna Martin]

When you were together, when you were a couple. Yeah. Was there something you feel like they saw in you as your relationship progressed that you weren't used to people seeing or maybe that you couldn't see yourself?

[Megan Fowley]

I think that it might have been the other way.

[Anna Martin]

Huh.

[Megan Fowley]

I think it was pretty easy to see in Andrea who they were public facing, which was this beacon of wisdom, which was this sage, kind, deep, thoughtful person. What I saw in Andrea and how our relationship started was like two kids unleashed to host the living room show of their lifetime.

[Anna Martin]

Wow.

[Megan Fowley]

We made up dances together. We wrote parodies to pop songs to make them about queerness or feminism. We were goofy peeing our pants. Laughter. Just.

[Anna Martin]

You mean that literally? I feel like.

[Megan Fowley]

I mean. Okay, I was being nice to Andrea. Andrea peed their pants. They did not call them out. Andrea. Andrea. Multiple times, full bladder emptying. Peed their pants. It runs in their family. I don't know. Oh, my God.

[Anna Martin]

That and how. Okay, I'll just say if you were. If I was to tell a joke that made someone literally pee their pants, I'd be like, I'm the funniest person in the world. I mean, really, truly, I would. It'd be so gratifying.

[Megan Fowley]

I did feel. I did feel like the funniest person. I felt like the funniest person in the world with Andrea, and it was so contagious to make them laugh. And truly, I think making Andrea laugh is one of the best things I have ever gotten to do in my lifetime.

[Anna Martin]

You're talking about. I love that. The greatest living room show of our lifetime. There's a lot of play, and you're kind of answering my question, but I'm really genuinely curious, like, how two poets woo each other. You know, for the layperson writing a love poem, it's like, my goodness, what a lift. But for y', all, that's just another Tuesday. How do poets.

[Megan Fowley]

Yeah, how do you do it?

[Anna Martin]

What was that? What was the early stage of your relationship like?

[Megan Fowley]

Oh, my God. Thank you for asking these questions. It's nice to travel back here in my mind. The first gift Andrea ever sent me in the mail was a ukulele that said, you are the music. We spent. Our birthdays are a week apart. Their first birthday that I ever spent with them. They were turning 40, and I spent weeks buying, making, wrapping 40 presents so that I could give them one for every year that they missed.

[Anna Martin]

Can you share one of them, if you don't mind?

[Megan Fowley]

A laminated award that I had their best friend sign as, like, the witness that I also signed for the best face in the world.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my God, you're gonna get me. Best face in the world.

[Megan Fowley]

Yeah. They got me an actual boombox where they made actual mix CDs or mixtapes. I'm sorry. For me, and considering our age difference, I was more of the seedy time. I didn't know how to open up the.

[Anna Martin]

You're like, excuse me, 40 year old.

[Megan Fowley]

Can you help me with this? Yeah. They stitched poetry into a pillowcase for me. A line of poems like they hand stitched. Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

There's a lot you're talking about. Well, let me just say this. This is putting every single one of my boyfriends to shame, which I kind of knew would happen in asking that question. And yet it is wonderful to linger here with you. I mean, you keep mentioning the age gap. Let's just put a number on that. How? What was that age gap between you and Andrea?

[Megan Fowley]

13 years.

[Anna Martin]

13 years. Okay. I mean, I wonder. It sounds so dreamy and romantic and honestly, like, better than what I imagined two poets would do in the early stages of in love. But of course, you are not only poets, you are humans. It couldn't have been all rosy all the time, right? We'll be right back.

[Mont Blanc Voice]

The energy of reggaeton, the spirit of salsa, the beat of La Bamba, the music of Puerto Rico is known worldwide. When you visit the island, you aren't just visiting Puerto Rico. You're stepping into music's past, present, and future to a beat that lasts all year long, not just for one summer. Learn all the ways you can discover Puerto Rico. Learn [e-mail] it's easy to know you.

[Andrea Gibson (voice or referenced)]

Want to make a change, but it's harder to actually do it. How to Be a Better Human is a podcast from TED for the Self Help Skeptic. Host and comedian Chris Duffy admits he doesn't have it all figured out. So he invites various experts to share fascinating, heartwarming stories and actionable tips to help you improve your life. Learn to face your fears, set boundaries, throw great parties, and more. Listen to how to Be a Better Human. Wherever you get your podcasts, Mont Blanc.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Invites you to use life's quiet moments to pause, reflect, and put pen to paper.

[Anna Martin]

Chapter one. Oh, no, no, no, no. Part one.

[Megan Fowley]

Mm.

[Anna Martin]

Perfect.

[Megan Fowley]

The mountains are impressive. Oh, I wish you were here to see them.

[Anna Martin]

Dear diary, meet my new writing companion, the Meisterstuck.

[Narrator/Announcer]

For every journey, the perfect companion awaits. Montblanc let's write. Visit montblanc.com for exquisitely crafted writing instruments, leather goods, and more.

[Megan Fowley]

Prior to Andrea being diagnosed, we were really actually on the verge of breaking up. The pandemic had been really hard. Our life had gone from touring all around the country and this. Just this big life to being very quarantined. But also, we sort of kept with that longer than other people. And maybe more strictly because Andrea had also had an autoimmune disease, that Lyme disease that they had to, you know, be cautious with with their health. And honestly, I. Andrea was like, self soothing with drinking and not a massive amount, but that was sort of their thing. And I was numbing out with food or TV or just anything to shut it off. And we were really disconnected and not doing well at all. And when we got the news that there were masses, we didn't know if it was cancer, but it was a strong likelihood. Andrea even had tried to. To end it with me. Like, I don't think we should do this together. I just. We haven't been good. Like, I don't want to. I just. I remember we stayed up the whole night almost, and in another iteration of that conversation, I think I would have been like, screw this. I'm sleeping in the guest room or something. But because of what the stakes were, I just. I must have said a hundred times, I'm not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere where we are meant to do this together.

[Anna Martin]

What made you so sure, may I ask? Like, where was that conviction? Where did it come from?

[Megan Fowley]

I think that even through our hardest times, I always held this image of us that I felt like already existed on the horizon and always saw that picture and just didn't know how we got there.

[Anna Martin]

What was the picture? Was it an actual picture? Like, an actual image?

[Megan Fowley]

That's really interesting. I think it was, honestly, in part, knowing this other side of Andrea that was, like, without anxiety and fear. And then because of that, I just always knew that Andrea could get to a place of total alignment between who they wanted to be in the world and who they consistently were. And after I told them I wasn't going anywhere. And it was in a week's time that they were doing surgery and being diagnosed with cancer, but the next morning, I felt like they were already in that alignment.

[Anna Martin]

Wow. So one night, one sleep, basically. I mean, to put it that way, but. And then you woke up and it was. Was it a different Andrea? Was it a different you? I mean, I'm just trying to. What was the change the shift that.

[Megan Fowley]

You noted, it was like we woke up unknowing each other. We woke up not holding onto past versions of the other, but almost like, who is this person that I get to spend this time with? And this sort of brand new feeling. But it was better than a brand new feeling. It was actually better than falling in love with somebody initially. To fall in love with your partner who you've been with for six years. It was the most incredible feeling.

[Anna Martin]

This happens at a time in your relationship where you know there are masses inside of Andrea's body, but you don't yet know, you know, what those masses are. I mean, I find it remarkable that you wake up that morning and you're excited, delighted. There's a fresh feeling, there's a new feeling. And yet then you said, there's a surgery a week later. Is that what it is? And then the diagnosis is confirmed.

[Megan Fowley]

Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

And to be really clear with this, what was the diagnosis that Andrea received?

[Megan Fowley]

Ovarian cancer. If anyone's, like, in the oncology world looking for the technical term, it was high grade serous ovarian cancer, stage 2B.

[Anna Martin]

For those not in that world. How did you understand that diagnosis? How was it explained to you, too?

[Megan Fowley]

Well, I have a filter that everything goes through, which I think is the filter of best possible light. And I think Andrea had not always had that filter. And I think some. For some ways, that is probably what. What brought us together. I understood it to be the most common ovarian cancer, that it was the one that responded best to chemotherapies. And I was pretty hopeful in the beginning, very hopeful in the beginning, that Andrea would have this surgery that they had already had, and that we would go through the six cycles of chemotherapy, and it would be in the past, after which is not what happened.

[Anna Martin]

How did Andrea understand the diagnosis? You say you had different filters.

[Megan Fowley]

I, honestly, Andrea went into almost an awakened state at that time. And I don't know that Andrea was actually that interested or curious in what the diagnosis was, but so excited to be alive and feeling what they were feeling. And there was one moment where, you know, they would say, I might die soon. And I said, andrea, I don't know that you really think that, because, I mean, why aren't you bungee jumping? Why aren't we?

[Anna Martin]

Prove it.

[Megan Fowley]

If you think you're gonna die, we should be on an island of Greece, obviously, in Colorado, where we live.

[Anna Martin]

Damn.

[Megan Fowley]

Yeah. And they. They paused for a moment and said, I don't care to do any of that. I am Doing what has always been on the top of my bucket list in this life, which is to live with an open heart and to live without worry and fear and blame and just be in this present moment. I'm doing exactly what I've always wanted in this life.

[Anna Martin]

I mean, how do you respond to that, to someone? What did that mean to you? How did you hold that? I mean, then do you just go on a walk or, like, make Mac and cheese? Like, how do you live?

[Megan Fowley]

You know what I mean?

[Anna Martin]

How did you continue to live, to live life? I don't know. Like, how did you respond when they said stuff like that?

[Megan Fowley]

I had a lot of moments of just feeling great reverence for Andrea, just feeling lucky to be, like, in the path of light that they were trailing. I sky. I went skydiving myself with my mom.

[Anna Martin]

So you did the bungee jumping.

[Megan Fowley]

Understood.

[Anna Martin]

And Andrea did not go.

[Megan Fowley]

Andrea watched from the. And. And cheered for me.

[Anna Martin]

Or was it not medically advisable?

[Megan Fowley]

I don't think that they were. We had very different nervous systems, and I don't know that there's needed to jump out of a plane to get the rush that minded.

[Anna Martin]

You know, earlier in the conversation, we were speaking about the early stages of your relationship. You know, we had this amazing scene on the dance floor with the sweat and the, you know, the physical connection, the sexual connection between the two of you. How did your intimacy evolve or change with this diagnosis?

[Megan Fowley]

Well, one thing that was really interesting is Andrea went through the kinds of chemo where you lose your hair and lose your eyebrows and your eyelashes, and to the world, you are looking ill. And there were so many times where somebody would stop us and, like, ask if they could pray for us or something. And I would feel shocked because, you know, Andrea would have a hat on, and I would draw some eyebrows on their face, and I was like, you look good, babe. Like, I would be. I would be shocked because I was just seeing them glow and just seeing their beauty. And even when Andrea lost their hair, I remember I was like, oh, now I can see more of you. And so our. Yeah, in a lot of ways, I mean, this is different. Toward the very end of their life, when their body was more sick. But in a lot of ways, our intimacy increased because we somehow felt like we were blessed with the chemicals of the beginning. But then there was, like, the deep trust there as well.

[Anna Martin]

Did your sex get better after the diagnosis? I mean, better is a. Is a tough word. But were you enjoying it more after the diagnosis?

[Megan Fowley]

It felt like. I mean, I'LL be honest, it was always great. But I. Hell yeah, I will say it felt more like, I don't know, like a depth of the experience. Like it wasn't just sex, but like a. A real understanding of touching into the eternity and then two very mortal bodies. And I mean the. The chemicals in your brain, right, released during sex, birth and death are. Are similar or the same. And yeah, I just wonder if there was a touching into at those times. The energy that all energy, but an awareness of the energy that can't be destroyed or what was between us that wouldn't be able to be taken in a heightened moment like that. And also the vulnerability on Andrea's part of. I'd felt vulnerable about my body for a long time, but to be like bald and thin and have a port coming out of your chest and you know, some. I couldn't kiss Andrea the first five days after chemo because they were noxious with medicine that the oncology nurses would wear a hazmat suit to pump directly into their veins. And we weren't supposed to share a toilet because their like backsplash of their pee could be toxic to me, but their pulsing with it like it. There's a vulnerability there that I never actually acknowledged with Andrea in this life. So I hope that they're listening.

[Anna Martin]

Oh my gosh, me too. While you and Andrea are navigating this diagnosis, the treatment, the many treatments, you were being followed by a film crew filming the documentary that would ultimately become Come See me in the Good Light. And as I watched this film, I was struck by how steady you seemed. You were a real source of hope. I mean, you self described as an optimistic person. You were really a rock for Andrea. And I wonder like, did you ever feel not so rock? Like did you ever feel unsteady or unable to show up for Andrea in the way that they needed?

[Megan Fowley]

I think, I think my disposition, while I ultimately believe it was exactly what was right and needed for the journey, I do wonder if sometimes it made Andrea feel lonely to despair or worry alone or that not that they were alone, but that it might have felt like that because my. My way is not to worry about anything unless it's directly in front of me and happening. And I don't spend much, if any time in what if this bad thing happens? Say we're waiting on the blood results, you know, to find out if their cancer is growing or shrinking. In those days, my mind isn't making its worried preparations of what if it's this? What if it's this? It's just when we open it, we'll know what it is, and then we'll do from there. And while the first year of Andrea's diagnosis was that enlightenment that slipped some. And then what happened was, after that, rather than having this moment of grace and awakening, they now had a barometer for where they wanted to be and would always actively try to get there, be there and be really disappointed when they weren't feeling that.

[Anna Martin]

That's so interesting. It's almost like you two had set an example for yourselves, how to move through this with light and hopefulness and love. And then, of course, when you can't always reach that mark, you're saying that Andrea would get frustrated at themselves for not being this enlightened, hopeful. Huh. And how would you try to help them return to that level?

[Megan Fowley]

Or. Yeah, Andrea's. The way Andrea would say it is. I just want to be in the palm of God. Wow. Yeah. Okay.

[Anna Martin]

That was doable.

[Megan Fowley]

Yeah. Or they'd be like, I'm not. I can feel that I'm not in the palm of God right now, and I just want to return.

[Anna Martin]

It's pressure.

[Megan Fowley]

There's a lot of pressure. It did put pressure. Yeah. I would try multiple things. I think some days I would say, you know, like, I understand. We've set this example for ourselves, and sometimes you just need a day to fall apart or give up or, like, why don't you take off those damn boots and jeans and put on some sweatpants and get to bed and just, like, let it, you know? And then other times, I would say, get in the car. We're going on a drive. It's Andrea's favorite thing to do. We're gonna go see something beautiful. And I would watch their perspective shift, often returning to nature. But they had so many of their own tools to get there, whether that was listening to the Untethered soul by Michael Singer or Eckhart Tolle or this Hawaiian prayer, which is just the repetition of thank you, I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me. Sometimes they'd just listen to that for hours, and they had a million ways that they'd find their way back to the. Back to the present.

[Anna Martin]

Did you feel like you had. Did you feel like you had space to be, I don't know, angry or mopey or sad? Or did you feel like you had to sort of carry the hopefulness or the optimism for both of you?

[Megan Fowley]

I absolutely would have had space to feel anything. Andrea just. That was sort of their big message in the world. I mean, they Sold T shirts that said feelings are not the enemy. They definitely encouraged always everybody's feeling. And I think sometimes they worried with me that I was perhaps pushing feelings down or avoiding or in denial. And I still don't know the answer to that. I don't know the difference necessarily between being in denial and being in the present moment.

[Anna Martin]

Wow. Say that again.

[Megan Fowley]

I don't necessarily know the difference between being in denial or just being in the present moment.

[Anna Martin]

How do you figure that out, really? No, I just.

[Megan Fowley]

I mean, I imagine that it would be hard to find joy in denial. I don't know that you dance through denial or you laugh through denial. I think denial seems like something that would be busier or more distracted than I felt. And I will say, like days when, you know, with the bone metastasis, it was very hard for Andrea to walk and they were in pain. And those are days where I was really scared and I was really sad. But on the days when they felt good and we were like choreographing to Chapel Roan or I didn't go there. And I think that would have been if Andrea and I had any arguments during. Of course, we had arguments during cancer, but that would be the basis of them that. And in some ways, I think that they were worried for me that if I didn't pre grieve them that when they died, I would be ill equipped to handle the reality if I didn't spend a ton of time in my head preparing for what it would be like if they were no longer here and almost like mentally running the lines of that story. And that isn't what happened for me. I feel like, had I worried the whole time or had I constantly ruminated about they could die, what will it look like if they do? I would have had so much more regret than I do because I would have been robbing myself of so many beautiful moments together, just truly living.

[Anna Martin]

We'll be right.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Mont Blanc invites you to use life's quiet moments to pause, reflect, and put pen to paper.

[Anna Martin]

Chapter one. Oh, no. No, no, no. Part one. Perfect.

[Megan Fowley]

The mountains are impressive. Oh, I wish you were here to see them.

[Anna Martin]

Dear diary, meet my new writing companion, the Meisterstuck.

[Narrator/Announcer]

For every journey, the perfect companion awaits. Montblanc. Let's write. Visit montblanc.com for exquisitely crafted writing instruments, leather goods, and more.

[Megan Fowley]

Limu Emu.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

And Doug, here we have the limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Anna Martin]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[McDonald's Announcer]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings vary underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts Extra value. Meals are back for just $5.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Get a savory and sweet sausage, egg.

[McDonald's Announcer]

And cheese McGriddles plus hash browns and a coffee only at McDonald's for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and Calif. California and for delivery.

[Megan Fowley]

Can I tell one story?

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my goodness. You don't even have to ask permission.

[Megan Fowley]

So Andrea died, really, over the course of three days. When the hospice nurses told us that Andrea would be sedated, my understanding of sedation was out of pain, woozy and out of it. I did not know that sedated meant essentially without words and pretty non responsive with rare moments of consciousness. This was devastating to me. It resonated as a robbery. I felt like had I known what was going to start happening, I would have initiated some conversations both about what was happening. A proper goodbye. How will you visit me? How will I know it's you? Conversations that maybe Andrea wanted to have before the last three days of their life. But I. It wasn't in front of me yet. And now that it was, I was ready to talk about it. And then they couldn't. And see, that's. That's an image. There aren't adjectives for. However, within a couple of hours of realizing we weren't going to have that final conversation, I got a text message from our friend, the musician Chris Parika, saying that Andrea had written the lyrics to a song. It was a love song for me about their death. And Chris had recorded it and set it to music and sent it to me in that moment.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Fowley]

Andrea hadn't heard it either. And I just kept playing it for both of us. But the lyrics were essentially the conversation that I would have wanted us to have. The first lyrics are hold down the fort. Cause I've got to go light on the water will carry me somehow don't say goodbye Forever's not too far the other side's just a stone's throw from love and you've got a great arm. It's a beautiful song. It's called hold down the Fort. The refrain is, I had it all, I had you. I had it all, I had you. And it was. And so I already, I think, felt like Andrew is in this liminal space between this world and that and they're already finding these magical ways to communicate with me and to give me what I need. Even as you know, their body's unable to give anything but its last bits to death.

[Anna Martin]

Thank you for sharing that.

[Megan Fowley]

Thank you.

[Anna Martin]

I mean, I wonder what it's like to be ostensibly, I mean, you tell me, but in the bed that you shared. I mean, there's all these places that they are not now.

[Megan Fowley]

You know, Andrea died in our bed. They died with me, like pressed up against their face and their mom at their back and their father at her back and four of their ex girlfriends at their feet and a couple of people they didn't make out with but were good friends. And I. The night after the first night I slept in bed without them, I intentionally switched to sleeping on their side of the bed. I didn't like the idea of looking over and seeing them missing. And that's where I've stayed. I have their boots beside me on my desk. I have their ashes probably in each room. And I realized, so back to Hedgebrook, I guess.

[Anna Martin]

Back we go to the colony of artist women.

[Megan Fowley]

When I was there the last day that I was there, and I still hadn't had any visitations from them, but again, maybe I was there to find myself. But I spread some of their ashes in this clearing of trees where they had built a wooden desk amongst the trees. And I just knew that Andrea would love that spot, that writing desk in the woods that's got, you know, pine needles scattered all across it the way like nature's pens and post its. And I lay dangerous ashes on the desk and also at the roots of some of the trees in that clearing. And I thought about them almost fertilizing the poetry of the writers who would sit there after me and had the thought that maybe it's not about finding Andrea everywhere I go, but bringing them everywhere I go.

[Anna Martin]

Then maybe this is the wrong question to follow up with, but who are you learning you are. I was gonna say without them, but you tell me if that's the right way to put that question.

[Megan Fowley]

Yeah, you know, I think I'm really comforted by the idea of energy not being created or destroyed because Andrew has boundless energy. I used to call them energizer Gibby. We had learned that exercising throughout cancer, like, increased your likelihood of survivorship. Andrea is like jumping on the trampoline. They're lifting weights, like these days where anyone else would just stay in bed. But they're saying, like movement, resistance training. This stuff will help you feel better after Chemo could help you live longer. And literally, like, they would look so undercooked and destroyed from chemo. And then they'd be playing Justin Bieber and like pulling dumbbells out of their pocket out of nowhere. I'm like, what is. They had so much energy, so much creative life force. You could see a scene in the movie. We don't say what they're doing, but I'm icing their hands and feet with mittens so that they don't get neuropathy and their fingers and toenail toenails don't fall off. And they cut a tiny hole in the mittens so that they could use one finger to type a poem on their phone during these chemo sessions where everyone else. And why wouldn't you be as like zoning out on their iPad? Like, they wouldn't check out ever. They wouldn't turn off. And so my feeling now is that, you know, and I felt DeAndrea's heart stop beneath my hands, like I was right there. And my hope is that some of that boundless energy is now in me.

[Anna Martin]

It reminds me of something you've said, which is you hope that for the rest of your life people will look at you and see Andrea. I wonder what you mean by that.

[Megan Fowley]

I don't want to be separated from this story. I don't feel like it's like, who am I outside of Andrea and our relationship? I feel like this is my marrow, this is stitched into my spine. This is my new genetic makeup. And I will, of course, carry this into everything that I do. And I feel, I mean, as a fairly young person, I'm 37 now. Andrew is almost 50. To carry the wisdom. And I feel a lot of gratitude for that.

[Anna Martin]

You know, I read for a while that you fell asleep listening to a recording of Andrea reading a poem that they wrote for you called Love Letter from the Afterlife. Is that something that you still. Is that something you still do?

[Megan Fowley]

There's a video recording of Andrea reading the poem to me. We're just sitting in our yard, like, cross legged with our dogs frolicking around us. But there's what moves me most about the video. I mean, the poem is gorgeous and I'll share it. But what moves me most about the video is Andrea seems almost shy and nervous to read it to me. And there's just something so sweet in it. And yeah, I. Many nights have fallen asleep watching that.

[Anna Martin]

I would be very honored if you would share this poem with us right now.

[Megan Fowley]

Let me pull it up. Okay. Love Letter from the Afterlife, my love. I was so wrong. Dying is the opposite of leaving. When I left my body, I did not go away. That portal of light was not a portal to elsewhere, but a portal to here. I am more here than I ever was before. I am more with you than I ever could have imagined. So close. You look past me when wondering where I am. It's okay. I know that to be human is to be farsighted. But feel me now, walking the chambers of your heart, pressing my palms to the soft walls of your living. Why did no one tell us that to die is to be reincarnated in those we love while they are still alive? Ask me the altitude of heaven and I will answer, how tall are you? In my back pocket is a love note with every word you wish you'd said. At night I sit ecstatic at the loom, weaving forgiveness into our worldly regrets. All day I listen to the radio of your memories. Yes, I know every secret you thought too dark to tell me and love you more for everything you feared might make me love you less. When you cry, I guide your tears toward the garden of kisses I once planted on your cheek. So you know they are all perennials. Forgive me for not being able to weep with you. One day you will understand. One day you will know why. I read the poetry of your grief to those waiting to be born and they are all the more excited. There is nothing I want for now that we are so close. I open the curtain of your eyelids with my own smile. Every morning I wish you could see the beauty your spirit is right now making of your pain, your deep seated fears. Playing musical chairs, laughing about how real they are not my love. I want to sing it through the rafters of your bones. Dying is the opposite of leaving. I want to echo it through the corridor of your temples. I am more with you than I ever was before. Do you understand? It was me who beckoned the stranger who caught you in her arms when you forgot not to order for two at the coffee shop. It was me who was up all night gathering sunflowers into your chest. The last day you feared you would never again wake up feeling light hearted. I know it's hard to believe, but I promise it's the truth. I promise one day you will say it too. I can't believe I ever thought I could lose you. Oh my God. Thank you for reading that.

[Anna Martin]

You know what I wish? I wish that every time someone asked you, how are you? You would just you could read them this poem in full or like infuse it into their body and into their mind. It is such. It is such a beautiful poem. It really is. And I mean, it's reduced me to a lot of tears in this studio. And I cannot imagine if this was written for me. I mean, what a. I do think.

[Megan Fowley]

It was written for you. Like, I. I do really think Andrea had. In their consciousness. Yes. I am the person that allowed them to access these feelings. But I think that it was really written for anyone who's lost somebody to be able to give voice there. I think they knew then.

[Anna Martin]

Thank you, Andrea Gibson. I mean, really. I mean it.

[Megan Fowley]

Thank you, Andrea Gibson.

[Anna Martin]

And thank you, Megan Fowle. The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Christina Josa Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poyant, Lynn Levy, Reva Goldberg and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Sarah Curtis. It was edited by Lynn Levy. Original music in this episode by Marion Lozano, rowan Nimisto, Pat McCusker and Dan Powell. Dan also composed art theme music. This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez with studio support from Matty Masiello and Nick Pittman. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've always got the instructions in our show notes. And if you want to hear the song that Megan was talking about during our conversation, it's called hold down the fort and it's by Chris Parika. We'll put a link to that in our show notes as well. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Anna Martin]

Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[McDonald's Announcer]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty. Liberty Savings Ferry unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.