The Secret to True Romance

Summary

Modern Love — "The Secret to True Romance"

Podcast: Modern Love (The New York Times)
Host: Anna Martin
Episode Date: February 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

This Valentine's Day edition of Modern Love explores what "true romance" means to people, focusing on both grand gestures and tender, everyday acts of love. Host Anna Martin shares a series of listener-submitted stories about their most romantic experiences, ranging from memorable kisses to small acts of consistent care. The episode culminates with an interview with Ann Bolger Witherspoon and her husband Lonnie Anderson—known locally as the "Queen and King of Valentines"—who, for 30 years, have taken elaborate, public displays of love to new heights.

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Key Themes & Insights

What Is Romance, Really?

• Anna Martin sets the tone by questioning what romance actually means to different people.
• Listeners were recently asked to submit their most romantic stories for Valentine's Day.
• Submissions reveal that romance takes many forms, from grand gestures to quiet acts of care.

Quote:
"What's the kind of romantic gesture you keep talking about years later?"
— Anna Martin (00:59)

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Listener Love Stories: Highlights & Memorable Moments

1. Iconic Kiss & Shouting Stranger

• A listener recounts being kissed on a busy street corner as a stranger on a passing trolley yells, “He loves you! He really, really loves [you]!”
  (03:07)

2. The Foot Rub Routine

• One woman’s late husband, her biggest cheerleader and running partner, would rub her tired feet every night—"my gnarly, ugly running feet"—as the ultimate act of tenderness.
  (03:55)

3. The Mamoul Cookie Tradition

• A series of dates where a partner remembered her love for mamoul (a Middle Eastern date cookie) and presented one on every date, culminating in a sweet ritual of care and attention.
  (04:36–05:08)

4. Small Acts, Big Heart

• Accommodating a partner’s partial deafness by always choosing the table seat where she can best hear the group, without being asked, so she feels included.
  (05:37–06:39)

5. The Midnight Sweatshirt Rescue

• A partner wordlessly helps her remove a stuck sweatshirt in the middle of the night, showing care even in half-asleep states.
  (06:39–08:00)

6. Knock on Wood—A Superstition Met with Empathy

• A partner builds a portable “knocking block” to help with a lifelong bedtime superstition, embracing even the quirks that might otherwise embarrass.
  (08:00–08:57)
  Quote: “It showed me what it feels like when even the least impressive parts of you are welcome.” — Listener (08:55)

7. Body Acceptance Through Constellations

• A partner turns freckles into constellations, tracing them gently and reframing body insecurities as something beautiful.
  (09:03–10:31)
  Quote: “Maybe if we connected the dots ... we could find all the constellations.” — Listener’s boyfriend (10:19)

8. The Bouquets of Truce

• After a big fight, both partners independently buy matching bouquets as an apology and symbol of moving forward.
  (10:31–11:24)

9. Tire Trouble Turned Tenderness

• Despite being busy and on a work call, a husband shows up to fix a flat tire, simply and competently, making his wife feel cared for.
  (11:24–12:32)

10. Wardrobe Love

• A partner organizes and irons all her clothes, noticing her needs before she does.
  (12:32–13:06)
  Quote: “He didn’t even think it was that big of a deal that he did that for me. Whereas I think it’s the most romantic thing I’ve ever experienced.” — Listener (12:57)

11. Dream House Dinner Surprise

• A boyfriend arranges a romantic Italian dinner on the porch of a house his girlfriend loves, having secured the owner’s permission, showing deep thoughtfulness.
  (14:09–15:23)

12. Random Act of Community Love

• Two elderly women secretly pay for a young couple’s fancy Valentine’s dinner, showing that romance can come from unexpected places—and sometimes, from strangers.
  (15:23–16:18)
  Quote: “I think sometimes romance can be found so deeply in community as well, and the small actions by the people around us.” — Anna Martin (16:20)

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Main Feature: Ann Bolger Witherspoon & Lonnie Anderson, the King & Queen of Valentines

Their 30-Year Valentine Tradition (21:16–41:42)

How It Started:

• Lonnie, living in Portland and dating Ann long-distance in Albuquerque, creates a life-size gameboard in her apartment for their first Valentine’s together.
  (24:41–26:22)
  Quote: “He had converted the living room into a game board… as you moved through the game board there would be various questions or various activities. ... It was the beginnings of our courtship and so there was discovery to be had.” — Ann (25:38–26:22)

The Grand Gestures Over the Years:

• Lonnie has organized:
  • Planetarium shows spelling out “I love Ann” in the stars.
  • Projected Ann’s name and Valentines on a 20-story building.
  • Lined her commute with “I Love Ann” signs and ended with a mural.
  • Turned their home into a restaurant with top chefs.
  • Rented a theater and had the symphony play just for them.
  • Created crop circles with her name.
    (22:28–24:41)

On Repeating & Reinventing Romance:

• Ann initially wondered if the big gestures were “over the top” or a kind of “show off,” but has come to appreciate their enduring, evolving meaning in their relationship.
  (26:26–27:35)

Collaborative & Community-Built Love:

• Over time, the tradition has become a community affair, with friends and neighbors helping set up, family members DJing at recreated proms, and even strangers contributing.
  (32:08–34:53)
  Quote: “There is a passion behind it. ... But it's the smaller, more subtle moments that I do love about the process.” — Ann (32:20)

Balancing Public and Private:

• Ann admits to being more private, at times struggling with their romance becoming a local spectacle.
  • Ultimately, she sees it as a gift not just to Lonnie but to the wider community—a way to promote “universal love.”
    (37:11–38:33)
    Quote: “There came a point where I really sort of said, this isn’t about Ann anymore ... it has moved from the more quiet, intimate ... towards larger and more inclusive and grander.” — Ann (38:01)

This Year's Surprise (Revealed to the Audience but not to Ann) (39:00):

• Lonnie, with the help of a local nonprofit and people with disabilities, plans to essentially give Ann an entire historic candy store.
  • A giant window sign made of jelly beans spelling her name, custom candies, and the whole front window filled with hearts from helpers naming their loved ones. (39:00–40:17)
    Quote: “Instead of giving her a box of Candy. We are going to give her an entire candy store ... all of these people that helped ... put the person that they love their name on a little heart ... the window ... is filled up with all of these people. ... It to me is just beautiful.” — Lonnie (39:10)

The Joy of Surprises:

• Ann relishes the surprise each year and tries not to discover details ahead of time, in order to be fully present for the moment.
  (41:05)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:46 – Start of listener submission stories
• 03:07 – Trolley car “He loves you!” story
• 03:55 – Husband’s nightly foot rubs
• 04:36–05:08 – Mamoul cookie tradition
• 08:00 – Knock on wood superstition story
• 10:31 – Flower bouquet truce
• 14:09 – Neighborhood dream house dinner
• 16:18 – Community pays dinner check
• 21:16 – Interview with Ann Bolger Witherspoon & Lonnie Anderson begins
• 22:28 – Lonnie’s grand gestures explained
• 24:41 – The first gameboard Valentine’s
• 32:08 – Community and family join the process
• 34:08 – Are these gestures essential to their marriage?
• 36:02 – The move from private to public romance
• 39:00 – This year’s “entire candy store” surprise revealed

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Notable Quotes & Reflections

• “It showed me what it feels like when even the least impressive parts of you are welcome.” — Listener (08:55)
• “Maybe if we connected the dots ... we could find all the constellations.” — Listener’s boyfriend (10:19)
• “I think sometimes romance can be found so deeply in community as well, and the small actions by the people around us.” — Anna Martin (16:20)
• “You can’t make someone love you, but you can love them... I’m not in charge of how much Ann loves me, but I am in charge of like, that I love her.” — Lonnie Anderson (27:49)
• “There came a point where I really sort of said, this isn’t about Ann anymore ... it has moved from the more quiet, intimate ... towards larger and more inclusive and grander.” — Ann Bolger Witherspoon (38:01)
• “It to me is just beautiful. We have this whole community, and they’re going to give her an entire candy store.” — Lonnie Anderson (40:15)

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Tone & Takeaways

• The episode mixes nostalgia, humor, tenderness, and awe, highlighting that romance does not have a single “correct” form.
• Both the listener submissions and the Andersons’ story reinforce that love is expressed in everyday attention, acts of service, and the courage to be publicly devoted.
• The largest gestures often stem from years of “small” moments and a willingness to invite others into the circle of love.

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For those short on time:

If you want to understand “the secret to true romance”, listen to the stories at 00:54–16:18 and the Andersons’ interview at 21:16–41:42.
The heart of the episode is not flashy gifts, but consistent, authentic, and attentive acts—often shared, celebrated, and elevated by community.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Lonnie Anderson]

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[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

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[Anna Martin]

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[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

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[Lonnie Anderson]

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[Anna Martin]

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[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

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[Anna Martin]

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[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Love now. And did you fall in love last, fella?

[Lonnie Anderson]

Love, love. But stronger than anything for the love of love.

[Anna Martin]

And I love you more than anything.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

There's to love Love.

[Anna Martin]

From the New York Times. I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Hello, Modern Love. Hello, Modern Love podcast. Hey, Modern Love.

[Anna Martin]

Hi.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Hello. This is my most Romantic Gesture story.

[Anna Martin]

So for the past month, we've been asking you to send us the most romantic things that have ever happened to you, all because it's Valentine's Day this week. Happy Valentine's Day. And what is Valentine's Day about but romance? But I've been wondering, like, what does romance really mean to people? How does it actually show up in our lives? What's the kind of romantic gesture you keep talking about years later? We got so many responses from all of you, and I feel like I'm always saying this, but I wish we could play them all. We did listen to every single one, though. Thank you for sending them in. Today we are going to hear some of your stories. And then, my friends, I'm speaking with the queen and king of valentines themselves. All right, sit back, relax, and let the romance wash over you.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

So the most romantic moment, the most romantic moment of my life.

[Anna Martin]

The most romantic thing, the most romantic gesture that I've ever experienced.

[Lonnie Anderson]

My most romantic experience occurred on February.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

14, 2025, Valentine's Day. Only three months ago.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Couple years ago, May 8, 2010. Oh, wait a minute.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

It was December30, 25 years ago.

[Anna Martin]

It was a Wednesday.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

No, now that I think about it, it was actually December 16, 2024, when.

[Anna Martin]

I met my now wife.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I lived in New York City.

[Anna Martin]

He was stationed in Hawaii.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I was in the first few months of a relationship.

[Anna Martin]

We were standing on a street corner.

[Lonnie Anderson]

At one point in the middle of.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

The day, waiting to cross the street. He looked over at me. He kissed me. And meanwhile, one of those classic trolley cars was riding by, and this one man who was on the back of the train, saw us kiss, and he leaned out like he was, like, in Singing in the Rain and waved at us.

[Lonnie Anderson]

And he shouted, he loves you. He really, really loves.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

My husband introduced me to running long before we were married, and we were married for 38 years. When he passed away, he encouraged me so much. He was my biggest cheerleader.

[Anna Martin]

He'd write me notes, always be the.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

First person I'd call after a marathon. But the thing that he did that was the best, most romantic thing was that every night when we'd sit on the couch, he would ask me to put my feet into his lap, My.

[Anna Martin]

Gnarly, ugly running feet.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

And he would rub them. It was such a tender and romantic gesture.

[Anna Martin]

I'll never forget it. Our first date was at a jazz.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Bar, and we each ordered a drink. And sometime into the date, I made a second order of a mamul, which.

[Anna Martin]

Is a date cookie. It's one of my favorite cookies, and.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I was on a big mamoul kick at the time, and it was just.

[Anna Martin]

One of the many things that we.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Talked about as we closed out the bar that night.

[Anna Martin]

On our first date.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

On our second date, we meet up.

[Anna Martin]

And he pulls something out of his.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Pocket and says he has a surprise for me. And in his poem is a wrapped mamoul cookie, because he remembered that I.

[Anna Martin]

Said that I liked it on our first date. I thought it was really, really sweet.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

And really special and quite romantic for a second date.

[Anna Martin]

On our third date, the same thing happened. He pulled out a mamool cookie out of his jacket pocket.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Also very sweet, also very cute, and.

[Anna Martin]

Then so on and so forth.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

On our fourth date, our fifth date, our sixth date, he continued to have mamul cookies that he bought in bulk and made sure to always have one to give me every time we started our date.

[Anna Martin]

Mine's not very grand. It's on the pretty small side of things. But I am partially deaf in my left ear, and this results in a.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Lot of scenarios that you could imagine.

[Anna Martin]

If someone's sitting on my left side.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Or to the left of me, I.

[Anna Martin]

Can barely make out what they're saying unless they're speaking very clearly and loudly. If I'm in a space with a lot of noise, like a restaurant or a concert, I can barely hear a thing. That can lead me to feeling quite isolated and frustrated and alone and separate from where I am. Well, my partner, who I've been with for about four years now, anytime we're out somewhere, anytime we're sitting at a table, maybe At a restaurant, he is the first one to the table, and he always makes sure that I have a seat at the place where I could best hear the entirety of the group. He does this without me asking him to, and oftentimes I'll find myself forgetting and not understanding why he's doing what he's doing. And then I put two and two together. That he's trying to make sure that I can be as comfortable and a part of wherever we are as possible. And that just makes me smile every time he does it.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Some time ago, my husband and I were getting ready for bed, and it was a little bit colder than usual, so I decided to wear a sweatshirt to sleep, which is not something I typically do. So I put one over my T shirt I usually sleep in halfway through the night. I woke up very warm. I sweated a little, and I sat up about halfway, and I was really struggling to get my sweatshirt off without it taking my T shirt with it. So I was fighting that a little bit, and I didn't realize I must have woken up my husband. But kind of out of nowhere and silently, he reached over and I felt his hand kind of grasp the lower part of my T shirt. And I was able to then easily take off my sweatshirt without the T shirt coming with it. He gave my back a little pat, and then he rolled over and fell back asleep. When I woke up the next morning, I thought of it instantly, and I just thought, God, that's so nice to have someone who's probably dead asleep themselves, notice that you're struggling and just kind of lend a hand. And I just felt so lucky to be with someone like that.

[Anna Martin]

I have this thing that's really embarrassing. I am superstitious, and I have to knock on wood before bed. I've been doing it since I was a little girl, for as long as I can remember. When I moved in with my boyfriend John, I was nervous he would catch me, and so I would have to slightly reach out to tap on the windowsill, feigning a yawn, pretending I was just stretching. And one day, he did catch me. He listened as I told him about how it's hard when we go camping or I am traveling for work and there is no wood to knock on nearby. He lay silently for a while and then said, can I make you a knocking block so you can take it with you anywhere? It showed me what it feels like when even the least impressive parts of you are welcome.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I felt like he was seeing me.

[Anna Martin]

And saying that for him. I was like, freeze Framed in the world and beautiful.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

That tiny one second smile. It just felt like he saw through me to my core. And it was, to this day, the most romantic moment. A long time ago, I had my first boyfriend. I had never been naked in front of a man. And the first couple of times I went over to his rooming house and stayed, I was nervous. I am a speckled person with freckles on my nose and cheeks and dark, larger freckles sprinkled widely across my arms and legs and back. One afternoon as I sat on his mattress on the floor, I drew my knees up and wrapped my arms around them and explained that I felt self conscious about all the spots. He was quiet as he kneeled on the floor beside me and he slowly traced the dark freckles on my legs with his finger. Maybe if we connected the dots, he said, eventually we could find all the constellations.

[Anna Martin]

About two years into our relationship, we got into a huge fight at my apartment. I got so overwhelmed that I asked if we could put it on pause so I could go for a walk and clear my head. And on this very tearful walk, I came to the realization that we really don't need to be fighting about whatever we were fighting about. It was really silly and we love each other. We can work past this. And so on my way home, I picked up a bouquet of flowers, something white to show a sign of truce. And when I walked in later, she was holding almost the exact same bouquet of flowers. And we just cried and laughed. And now those two bouquets are sitting in my apartment almost two more years later and just show a sign of how much we love each other and we can get through anything.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

The most romantic thing that ever happened to me happened just a few weeks ago. I drove too close to a curb, hit it pretty bad, and blew out a tire. I did the first thing that I know to do, which is call my husband. But he didn't answer. And he sent me a message that said something like, call you back in a meeting. So I sent him a message back and said, I blew out my tire. Here's where I am. He said, okay.

[Anna Martin]

And in a few minutes he showed.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Up, still on his meeting, like in his call on the phone, and changes my tire for me. No question, no complaint, just handles it. And I felt so impressed to be with such a capable human and so honored to know that in his mind, I'm his to take care of.

[Anna Martin]

One day I came home from work to find all of my clothes neatly ironed, folded and put in kind of the right compartment in my wardrobe with all of the clothes that I wear the most at the front for ease of access. I didn't even realize that was something that he noticed. And he didn't even bring it up.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

He didn't even think it was that.

[Anna Martin]

Big of a deal that he did that for me. Whereas I think it's the most romantic thing I've ever experienced.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

My heart just swelled, and I was so appreciative. I was swooning.

[Anna Martin]

I'll never forget it.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

He just looks at me and he says, you're so cute. Can I kiss you? And I nodded, and he kissed me.

[Anna Martin]

And he just took me in his arms and kissed me and kissed me and kissed me.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

And then he said I had to do that. And then he turned around and he walked away. He parks, gets out of the car, comes to pick me up, extends his hand, you know, In a gentleman, 18th century way, kisses my hand, draws me in and kisses me in full view of everybody.

[Anna Martin]

I lived in this neighborhood where one block away, there was a house that I adored. It had all of these beautiful, succulent plants out on the porch. She had these white, twinkly cafe lights that she would turn on every night. And I would always comment on this house about.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I just love this house. It is my dream house. And I would walk by and I.

[Anna Martin]

Would just feel so dreamy about it. So Valentine's Day comes, and my boyfriend comes to pick me up for dinner, and he says, I'm going to blindfold you, and I want it to be a surprise where we're going for dinner. So he puts a blindfold on me, and he drives me around, and we're driving, like, for so long. We're making all these turns, and I'm actually starting to get nervous. Like, I don't understand why this needs to happen. And then I feel the car come to park.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

He guides me out of the car.

[Anna Martin]

I'm still blindfolded. Steps me up onto a walkway. He takes my blindfold off, and we are standing on the steps of this.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

House that I love so much.

[Anna Martin]

And on the front porch is an Italian meal. He had gone to the owner of this house and explained how much I love their house. And she was so flattered. And he asked permission to have Valentine's Day dinner on her front porch. The two of us were very broke college students and wanted to celebrate Valentine's Day. And we found a very fancy, nice restaurant. It was clearly something that was very far out of our budget. But we had a lovely dinner and There were these two elderly women kind of a few tables down from us. They ended up leaving and kind of like waved goodbye to us.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

They were really sweet.

[Anna Martin]

And when it came time for us to get the check, the server had said that our dinner was actually covered by those ladies. They wanted to let us know that love is all around we. And I still think about them, and I think about that moment because I think sometimes we look at romance as a product of the actions between two people only. But I think sometimes romance can be found so deeply in community as well and the small actions by the people around us. And for us, that wasn't even a small action. That was a really amazing and a really kind, wonderful gesture for, you know, a young couple trying to make a Valentine's day special. And they really did. When we come back, the king and queen of Valentine's Sam. Modern love is supported by my mochi ice cream. It's the month of lovers of rich, creamy my mochi ice cream. My mochi is a premium ice cream wrapped in soft, chewy dough like a sweet ice cream dumpling. It comes in delicious fruit flavors like strawberry and mango and classic favorites like cookies and cream. Every box of my mochi has six mochis, so it's fun to share with the people you love most. Grab a purple box of my mochi ice cream today and feel joyfully chill. If you, your parent or spouse served in the military, you could join our family. Our members saved an average of $70 a month on auto insurance when they switched. Tap the banner or visit usaa.com join today to check your eligibility restrictions apply.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I'm opening up crossplay. I've been playing against Dan, my colleague at the New York Times. I'm going to play stup s t u p e across a triple word multiplier square.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Cats played another move. Ugh. And she did have an S. She played Stoop for 36 points.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I've got a Z which is 10 points. If I can put my X over there, I can make box.

[Lonnie Anderson]

I have two A's, N's, and T's.

[Anna Martin]

I'm guessing tenga is not a word.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Let's see. Tenga is a word.

[Anna Martin]

Oh.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Don't know what tanga means, so I'm going to press down on the word and. Oh, definition popped up. Former monetary unit of Tajikistan. Learn something. Every time I play this game, even.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Though I'm about 50 points ahead, one thing I've learned in crossplay is that the game is never over.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I just got a notification and Dan Played his last turn. Let's see who won. It's so close, but I did win. Crossplay, the first two player word game from New York Times Games. Download it for free today.

[Anna Martin]

It's devastating when you see a game.

[Lonnie Anderson]

That you could have won.

[Anna Martin]

The stories you all sent us, they were so lovely to listen to, and you were so generous letting us into these tender, often very private moments from your lives. So thank you again. We did have one person write in, though, to tell us about a couple who does their romantic gestures very publicly. And I gotta tell you about them. For the past 30 years, Lonnie Anderson has been making these huge over the top valentines for his wife, Ann. Bolger Witherspoon. He goes, like, all in, and he's kind of become famous for this. Just about every year, his valentines make the local news. The paper. People stop in a Lonnie on the street to talk about that one time he made giant cardboard flowers, or the other time he put a carousel in their front yard. People get really into it, and they've even gotten involved in helping Lonnie make these things. So to close us out today, I figured we'd talk to them because I want to know what it's like when your romance becomes everyone's romance. And I just had to know what Lonnie had planned. And. Bolger Witherspoon, Lonnie Anderson, welcome to modern love.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Hello.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Oh, hello.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Greetings from New Mexico.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Thank you.

[Anna Martin]

I'm so excited to talk to you, too, because of this. Lonnie, you have been called by many people the King of Valentine's Day. Every year you do something for your wife, Ann. It's become a tradition. What is this tradition?

[Lonnie Anderson]

Well, I don't know if I would say I'm the king because I feel like that's not what I am, but, yeah, I love my wife very dearly. And for 30 years, I have tried to come up with, you know, a creative and wonderful Valentine for her, working with the community sometimes.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

And he's being a little modest around this whole King of Valentines because there was, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, there was a. Some of the valentine was this photo shoot that I was a queen and I was gifted a beautiful gown from the Santa Fe Opera for the day and crowned queen. So I think for a while, you were sort of running with the King of Valentine's.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

Let's give people a sense of what we're talking about when we say, Lonnie, you've been giving Valentine's for 30 years. Give me some examples of stuff you've done over the years.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Lonnie's cheating. He's pulling out a list that's.

[Lonnie Anderson]

No, you shouldn't you have to do this.

[Anna Martin]

30 years.

[Lonnie Anderson]

So we had planetarium reprogram the dome so that it says I love Ann in the stars. I had all of her friends do a valentine, and I projected all the valentines downtown in Albuquerque on a giant building, like a 20 story building.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Okay, my turn. So along the same theme, one year, Lonnie kind of put various I love Ann signs on my drive home, like the commute home. So some of them an old school. You kind of snap the letters into the signage that might be in front of a. I don't know, a bingo.

[Lonnie Anderson]

A discount store. So anything that, like all the signage you see around your neighborhood said I love Ann. I just.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I just switched out and it ended with a large I love Ann mural in the neighborhood.

[Anna Martin]

I love that one.

[Lonnie Anderson]

I just put I love Anne. I love Anne. I love Ann.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

You've also turned the house into to a restaurant.

[Lonnie Anderson]

A restaurant.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Local restaurateer came in and cooked in our kitchen. And our daughter was the maitre d for that.

[Lonnie Anderson]

And we had the most famous chef in Albuquerque come and do it. Another thing we did.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

You. You did.

[Lonnie Anderson]

I say we, but we got in this big historic, you know, theater, just me and Ann, and they had the big red curtains like, that are like 50ft tall. They take two people to lift. They lift it up and they played one. So for Ann, and we were the only two people in the audience.

[Anna Martin]

What was the song? What was the song?

[Lonnie Anderson]

It was so beautiful.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Question.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Do you remember what song?

[Lonnie Anderson]

I know, I need to wrap. We both were just in shock. I actually cried. It was so beautiful. It was just so beautiful. So, yeah, I had the symphony play for her. I made a giant crop circle. So I did a giant heart with her name. So her name's like, I don't know, 50ft wide, but it was the size of this huge field. It can only be seen from space.

[Anna Martin]

I have to know, like, how did this start? I want to go back to the very first time you did this, and I want to know this actually from your point of view. Anne, tell me the story of the first Valentine Lonnie ever gave you.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

So we had just started dating. So we'd been dating less than a year, for sure. He was living in Portland. We were doing long distance. He was living in Portland, and I was living in Albuquerque. So he had come. Oh, come, come in town, I guess. And I lived in this very small space. It was barely a one bedroom efficiency. And he sort of shooed me away for a few hours and then I came back and he had converted the living room into a game board. So if you can imagine the whole floor, he had placed a huge paper and drawn a game board much like a candy lamp.

[Lonnie Anderson]

It was made like a. Yeah. Poster board.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Giant game board.

[Lonnie Anderson]

The fun part was, Rol, I made these giant dies and we were throwing.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Them around the apartment and you would roll the die and as you moved through the game board, the spacing, you'd land on it and there would be various questions or various activities. Like, have a piece of chocolate, pour a glass of champagne.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Tell me something that I don't know about you.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

But that's the point. That was really like the crux of it because we were in the beginnings of our courtship and so there was discovery to be had. So tell me something I don't know about you. Tell me something you're afraid of. And I was thinking, what? Who is this person? Right? Like, this is just.

[Lonnie Anderson]

You think about it. It's kind of like, wow, that's crazy.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

A little like a peacock, right? You know, you're kind of like, oh, he's doing the feathers and the struts.

[Anna Martin]

A little skepticism, perhaps? Yeah, oh, absolutely, absolutely. I'm curious about what you said. There's a little bit of like, huh, is this guy a show off? Tell me more about that, that, that sentiment.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Well, let me just say that he is a show off. And, and, and that's sort of what has driven a lot of this. And I think you either love that or you run away from it. And I think 30 plus years in, I've sort of leaned into loving it.

[Anna Martin]

But was that not your first inclination? I guess.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

No, I think the first inclination of like, oh, well, this is a little bit of a over the top and when is it gonna putter out? Right? Like you kind of have that like, huh, is it gonna happen the next year? And it did. And then the next year. And so what became apparent in all of that is that it wasn't just to hook me or kind of it really. There is a passion behind it. And it, of course has evolved in many ways.

[Anna Martin]

I mean, going back to that first Valentine's. Lani, what made you decide to do that for the first time? You hadn't been dating for that long, right? You didn't even live in the same town. Like, why go that big? That hard that soon.

[Lonnie Anderson]

I mean, it's simple. It's love. When you're in love, what do you do? You show up, you call them a hundred times when they're like, okay, so your friends are like, don't call her until Thursday and it's Monday. And you're like, like, I called her yesterday. And they're like, you know, like you, you do crazy stuff because you're so over the top. When I met her, I just was in love. I, I was like, I never, you know, when someone once told me is like, you can't make someone love you, but you can love them. And, and that's what's so beautiful, is like, I'm not in charge of how much, you know, Ann loves me, but I am in charge of like, that I love her.

[Anna Martin]

We'll be right back. Modern love is supported by my mochi ice cream. It's the month of lovers of rich, creamy My Mochi ice cream. My Mochi is a premium ice cream wrapped in soft chewy dough like a sweet ice cream dumpling. It comes in delicious fruit flavors like strawberry and mango and classic favorites like cookies and cream. Every box of my mochi has six mochis, so it's fun to share with the people you love most. Grab a purple box of my mochi ice cream today and feel joyfully chill.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Lifelock how can I help?

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

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[Anna Martin]

One in four tax paying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud. What do I do? My refund though. I'm freaking out.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Don't worry, I can fix this.

[Anna Martin]

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[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I'm so relieved.

[Lonnie Anderson]

No problem.

[Anna Martin]

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[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

I am a subscriber to the New York Times but my husband isn't and.

[Anna Martin]

It would be really nice to be able to share a recipe or an article or compete with him in wordle or connections. Thank you Dana.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

We heard you introducing the New York Times family subscription. One subscription up to four separate logins for anyone in your life. Find out [e-mail] family.

[Anna Martin]

I wonder, like over the years as you've gone bigger and bigger and bigger, I wonder if there was ever one where it just sort of felt like, huh, this isn't quite emotional in the way That I intended.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Oh, every single one of them.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, no, no, that can't be true.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

She's saying, is there ever one that sort of, like, you spent time, you kind of thought through, and then it sort of was like, oh, it kind of didn't have the ring to it. It didn't have the. It's so crazy.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Cause you just. I guess as an artist, you just always think that's it. Like, it's every one of them. Like, I did this one where I made this. I spent like three weeks, maybe a month writing out E. Cummings poem, I Carry youy Heart. And I did it with just rocks. And so.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

So each rock a pebble. Then was creating a letter.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Yeah. So. So, like, and. And my neighbors were, like, coming over at the fence and they were just looking at me and they were like, what are you doing? And at that point. Yeah, like, really? I was thinking, like, maybe, Lonnie, you might be mentally ill. Like, this is not okay. Like, you're out here, like, making this giant rock poem. And then, you know, one of my daughters comes over and she picks up a bucket of rocks, and she sits next to me and she puts the rocks for her mom. And, you know, she's writing out the thing. And then I was like, this is going to be awesome.

[Anna Martin]

I mean, Anne, you know, you see this finished poem, but hearing that story behind it, I imagine that must feel really good. Your husband, you know, one of your kids, writing these poems for you.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

It is really moving and powerful to see because, you know, we're talking a lot about grandiose, but it's the smaller, more subtle moments that I do love about the process. The willingness of others to jump in strangers, but also loved ones. So lonnie recreated an 80s prom. And the only instructions I was given was like, go find a vintage prom dress. And, oh, I found the best one with just a pink and something I would have never had worn myself. And I walk into the gym, and yes, my daughters had been involved. They decorated and there were balloons. But it was my sister who, like, took it to the next level. She had her 80s DJ outfit on. She is not. This is not her lane. Like, she is not the creative DJ kind. She is like, yes. And she had so much fun just being there.

[Lonnie Anderson]

80S records, music from 8. Oh, it was wonderful.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

And those are the moments, right? Like, the really. Just in order to have that big grandiose, There is a lot of generous moments from other people.

[Anna Martin]

These smaller moments.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

And then just. Yes. And just joy.

[Anna Martin]

I wonder, like, this has been going on for 30 years. Have these Valentines become essential to your relationship? Like, if Lonnie wasn't doing this every year, would things be different?

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

We joke. Every year is the last year. You know, he's. There's a little in what we're doing right now. He's like, well, if we made it this far, that's it.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Even this year. It was one of those crazy things where I was like, you know what? It's like, like, it's just too stressful. Where daughter's applying for college. And so we're all, we don't have any time. And we're just. We're all. Again, we. We. We're struggling. Like. Like, everybody in America is struggling. And so I was like, I'm gonna. I'm just gonna. We're gonna do something private. And we'll say, hey, we just. We decided this year we're gonna do something. But this. This group of people, like, like, really following us and stuff.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

He's walking a fine line.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Cause he's a surprise. It's this really amazing group.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my gosh.

[Lonnie Anderson]

No, it's not.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

It's not.

[Lonnie Anderson]

It's not. She doesn't know what it is, and you can't tell. But these people that are helping me, they're like, look, we're going to help you. We're going to do this. And I was like, what?

[Anna Martin]

Say no more. Say no more.

[Lonnie Anderson]

And that's it. I won't say anymore. But they're the ones that are like, really? They're doing it and they're sending me photos. To me is like. It just. It makes me cry. When I got it, I got a text the other day, and I was like, my God, the world is so beautiful.

[Anna Martin]

You know, over the years, as these Valentine's have gotten bigger and bigger, they've also gotten more and more public. Right? Like, they've. They've moved from these. Even though, you know, the. The first one, the board game in. In your home was. Was quite big. It was still within the home, right? It was for the two of you. And as the years have gone by, these Valentine's, I mean, they're out in the world, other people witness them, other people participate. And I. I guess, like, I want to know about that transition from more intimate and private to more public. And I guess for you, that feels like a big adjustment, I guess.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Well, there definitely was an evolution of both, just like the giving of the Valentines and how it went from more personal in our living room, getting to know you and then including others. And being built. And so since we've been back in New Mexico, it really has evolved into a community. People anticipate it. People look forward to it. I laughed a little because there was a moment I remember being at some high school reunion, and somebody literally turned to me and was like, oh, you're that Ann, right? So, like.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Oh, yeah, it was at her high school reunion.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

And it was sort of like, so the. I love Ann can be a mythical person, because I think that's sort of some of what Lonnie has set up in sort of universal love and an invitation for others to think about their own places of love and sharing and expanding themselves and promoting love as something we get involved with. But then this other part of, like, no, I'm a real person, and I.

[Anna Martin]

I exist beyond the Valentine.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

Was that transition hard, you know, to move from this thing with just you and Lonnie to this thing out in the world? Did you feel like you'd sort of, I don't know, lost something that was just for the two of you?

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Yes and no. So I think, yes, it is hard. I'm probably a much more private person, definitely, than him. And so there's something about, like, do we really have to share it? Right. You know, I resist that a little bit. And then there came a point where I really sort of said, this isn't about Anne anymore. This isn't about Valentine's. Clearly, we love each other and we're making a go at it, you know, 30 plus years in. But I also know that this is a gift I can give back to Lonnie and that it's larger than myself now. And I'm okay with that. I'm okay with the idea that it has moved from the more quiet, intimate. It was never small, but quiet and intimate moments of Valentine's towards larger and more inclusive and grander.

[Anna Martin]

I think that's really beautiful. I mean, my final question, you know, obviously, I'm dying to know what the heck this year's Valentine's Day is. I know that we cannot spoil it for Anne. So what? I will just.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Can you leave the room?

[Anna Martin]

I say this with all of the respect in the world. Can you leave the room for, like, one second?

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Yes.

[Anna Martin]

Thanks, Anne. Okay, Loni, what are you doing this year?

[Lonnie Anderson]

So this year, like I said, I'm working with a really good friend of mine, Michael. And he works for a nonprofit, so this is an art studio. And he works with lots of folks with disabilities from the neighborhood. And instead of giving her a box of Candy. We are going to give her an entire candy store. There's this historic, over 100-year-old candy store. It's so beautiful. And basically what we're going to do is they made this giant sign for the front of this candy store that's made out of jelly beans. Like, thousands. I mean, it's like literally thousands of jelly beans. And then it says Ann. It's the traditional Ann. It's hanging in the front window. And then the candy stores agreed to, like, make custom candies for her. They make their own candies, so they're making their own custom candy box. And then all of these people that helped with the jelly beans, they all put the person that they love their name on a little heart, and they made Valentine's. And so the window, the front window of this candy store is. Is filled up with all of these people. And so I think, like, it to me, is just beautiful. We have this whole community, and they're going to give her an entire candy store.

[Anna Martin]

Wow, Lonnie. I mean, let's get Ann back in here. Call her back in.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Wow.

[Lonnie Anderson]

And you can come back in yelling. Here she comes.

[Anna Martin]

An. I just heard what's happening this year. Of course I'm not going to say anything. Can you guess what this year's Valentine's Day is?

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

No.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Well, be honest, too. You be honest. Because she sees stuff once in a while. And I always think, like, you know, because, like, somebody will email something, she'll be like, oh.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

No, because I. I like the surprise. Surprise is really genuinely hard to fake.

[Anna Martin]

Yes, that's true.

[Lonnie Anderson]

She does like the surprise. And I would say, like, 90% of the times I've. It's.

[Anna Martin]

You pulled it off.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Yeah. And because that's also part of the giving back, not just for Lonnie, but anyone involved in the project, like, really being surprised and in the moment is. Is something I value. And I. And I want to give those. Those folks and Lonnie included in that, like, my all. And my. My presence of being in the moment with them. So I try really hard. There have been times where I know more than I should, and I kind of.

[Anna Martin]

But this is not one of those times.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

No, not at.

[Anna Martin]

Anne Bolger Witherspoon, Loni Anderson, thank you so much for this conversation.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Oh, Anna, it's been a pleasure.

[Lonnie Anderson]

Oh, yeah. Thank you so much.

[Anna Martin]

Happy Valentine's Day, everyone. The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poyant, Lynn Levy, Reva Goldberg and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Davis Land with help from Elisa Gutierrez. It was edited by Lynn Levy and Jen Poyant. Our mix engineer was Daniel Ramirez. Original music in this episode by Marion Lozano, Carol Savaro, Diane Wong, rowan Niemisto, Pat McCusker and Dan Powell. Dan also composed our theme music. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've got those instructions in our show Notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.

[Ann Bolger Witherspoon]

Sam.