Zola CEO & Founder, Shan-Lyn Ma and CMO, Victoria Vaynberg on Company Values and Brand Development

Summary

Podcast Summary: Marketing Voices and Perspectives

Episode: Zola CEO & Founder, Shan-Lyn Ma and CMO, Victoria Vaynberg on Company Values and Brand Development
Host: Joshua Spanier
Release Date: June 19, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of Marketing Voices and Perspectives, hosted by Joshua Spanier from Think with Google, listeners are introduced to Shan-Lyn Ma, the CEO and co-founder of Zola, and Victoria Vaynberg, the Chief Marketing Officer at Zola. The conversation delves deep into Zola's journey, their approach to marketing, brand development, and the core values that drive the company forward.

Company Overview and Introduction

Shan-Lyn Ma and Victoria Vaynberg begin by providing a concise introduction to Zola. Founded in 2013, Zola has grown into a comprehensive platform for wedding planning, catering to couples from the moment they get engaged through their entire wedding journey and into their newlywed life.

Shan-Lyn Ma explains:

"Zola is really the go-to place for anyone getting married or planning a wedding today. We aim to serve couples from that first day they get engaged through their entire wedding planning journey and into their first years of newlywed life."
[00:59]

Victoria Vaynberg adds:

"We are really also here to advocate for modern relationships and modern couples and how that has evolved over the years and really want to be a place where anybody can feel comfortable and feel like the kind of wedding that they want to have."
[01:45]

Embracing Modern Tools and Technology

The discussion transitions to the integration of modern tools and technology in Zola's services. Shan shares a personal anecdote about using AI to assist with writing, highlighting how technology can complement personal efforts.

Shan-Lyn Ma recounts:

"I recently was applying to get my 2-year-old daughter into a school program and had to write an essay about her. My co-CEO Rachel just for fun asked ChatGPT to write the same essay and it was almost exactly the same as what I had written."
[04:22]

While Victoriam expresses a more cautious stance towards AI:

"The creative part of me really wants to fight it. So I sort of have not incorporated it into my day-to-day life."
[04:51]

Nonetheless, Zola leverages AI to enhance user experience, such as their new feature for generating personalized thank-you notes.

Shan-Lyn Ma notes:

"We built an AI feature that helps you generate a thank you note in the tone that you would be wanting to write in."
[05:33]

Brand Development and Marketing Strategy

Victoria delves into Zola's rebranding efforts and the strategic decisions behind it. Highlighting the collaboration with their agency partner, Arts and Letters, she emphasizes the importance of aligning brand positioning with Zola's expanded services.

"We brought on a really smart strategic agency partner to help us. They nailed our challenge early on by understanding that we have nothing to do with the wedding day itself, but by the time you're starting your wedding day, we got you to the day."
[13:53]

Joshua appreciates the seamless integration of insights into marketing strategies, stating:

"Insights drive the marketing. No matter how much AI and other stuff comes along, insights ultimately matter because it's users and behaviors and being relevant to their lives."
[15:13]

Humor and Relatability in Branding

The conversation explores how Zola incorporates humor into their brand to resonate with their audience. Victoria explains that relatable humor stems from understanding the daily realities of couples planning their weddings.

Victoria Vaynberg shares:

"We try to tap into the realities of the life experience or life stage our audience is going through. For example, registering for an espresso machine but still buying an $8 latte every afternoon. That's relatable and adds a personal touch to our brand."
[08:37]

Commitment to Diversity and Inclusion

A pivotal moment in the conversation is Shan-Lyn Ma's account of Zola's unwavering commitment to diversity and inclusion. When faced with the Hallmark Channel refusing to run ads featuring same-sex couples, the Zola team stood firm in their values, resulting in increased brand love and awareness.

"When Hallmark refused to run our ads with same-sex couples, our team immediately stood up for what is right because it aligns with Zola's core values. The response was overwhelmingly positive, reinforcing our commitment to serving every couple."
[16:00]

Evolution of Business Model

Shan-Lyn discusses Zola's transition from a Direct-to-Consumer (D2C) model to a multi-business model approach, incorporating various services beyond wedding planning, such as their recent launch of Zola Baby.

"Over time, we've evolved from solely helping with weddings to assisting people through important life stages. Launching Zola Baby allowed us to support couples beyond their wedding day, reflecting the broader scope of our mission."
[18:02]

Influencer and Creator Partnerships

Victoria elaborates on Zola's influencer strategy, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and alignment with the brand's values. Instead of scripted content, Zola empowers creators to share their genuine experiences with the platform.

"We work with creators by providing them the facts they need and allowing them to tell their stories in their own voice. This authenticity has been key to unlocking traction and building trust with our audience."
[21:01]

Future Outlook and Exciting Ideas

Wrapping up the episode, Shan-Lyn and Victoria share their excitement for future initiatives. Shan-Lyn humorously proposes a fun idea involving cat lookalike competitions, while Victoria hints at imaginative projects that could further enhance Zola's community engagement.

Shan-Lyn Ma jokingly suggests:

"Imagine if Zola had a cat lookalike competition to find the cats that look the most like Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. And then have them date and maybe get engaged—creating a Zola universe around these cat weddings."
[23:02]

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Joshua thanking Shan-Lyn Ma and Victoria Vaynberg for their insights and contributions. Listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of Zola's commitment to innovation, inclusivity, and authentic marketing strategies that resonate deeply with their audience.

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Notable Quotes:

• Shan-Lyn Ma:

  "We didn't have to talk about it for hours. We didn't have to call big meetings. They just immediately said we have to stand up for this and call it out because it is just not right."
  [00:00]

• Victoria Vaynberg:

  "We are really also here to advocate for modern relationships and modern couples and how that has evolved over the years and really want to be a place where anybody can feel comfortable and feel like the kind of wedding that they want to have."
  [01:45]

• Shan-Lyn Ma:

  "When Hallmark refused to run our ads with same-sex couples, our team immediately stood up for what is right because it aligns with Zola's core values. The response was overwhelmingly positive, reinforcing our commitment to serving every couple."
  [16:00]

• Victoria Vaynberg:

  "We work with creators by providing them the facts they need and allowing them to tell their stories in their own voice. This authenticity has been key to unlocking traction and building trust with our audience."
  [21:01]

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This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, highlighting Zola's innovative approach to wedding planning, their steadfast values, and strategic marketing efforts. Listeners are provided with actionable insights and an engaging narrative that reflects the dynamic nature of modern marketing.

Transcript

[Shan Lin Ma]

We didn't have to talk about it for hours. We didn't have to call big meetings. They just immediately said we have to stand up for this and call it out because it is just not right.

[Joshua Spanier]

Hi everyone, this is Modern Marketers by Think with Google. I'm Joshua Spanier, VP of Media Lab within Google Marketing. I lead teams around the world who plan, invent execute and measure marketing programs on behalf of Google's brands. Each episode I talk to game changing marketers and founders who are delivering modern marketing today. Today I'm here with Char Lynn, the CEO and founder of Zola and Victoria V. Wehnerberg, the Chief Marketing Officer at Zola. Let's dive right in. So I'm beyond excited to talk today for Modern Marketers with Sian Linma and with Victoria Vaynberg. V for short. Welcome. Can't wait to hear from you. Tell me, just give everyone a little 30 second intro on you and Zola, the company you work at and Sian that you founded.

[Shan Lin Ma]

Hi Josh, thanks so much for having us. I am Shan Lin Ma, or people call me Shan. I'm the co CEO and co founder of Zola and I'll let vy.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

Oh yes, I'm Victoria Bamberg. Everyone calls me V as you said and I'm the Chief Marketing officer at Zola.

[Joshua Spanier]

Like I said, I'm super glad that you've made the time to have this conversation. Why don't you tell us a little about Zola for those who maybe not so totally familiar just yet.

[Shan Lin Ma]

Azola really is that go to place for anyone getting married or planning a wedding today. So we aim to serve couples from that first day they get engaged through their entire wedding planning journey and into their first years of newlywed life. And we do that with modern tools and technology to be there every step of the way.

[Joshua Spanier]

And when did you start working with V?

[Victoria Vaynberg]

I joined Zola about two and a half years ago, so later in the stages of Zola's 10 years of life. And we are the one stop shop for wedding planning. But I think in addition to that are really also here to advocate for modern relationships and modern couples and how that has evolved over the years and really want to be a place where anybody can feel comfortable and feel like the kind of wedding that they want to have. We can help make that happen and be supportive of all couples.

[Joshua Spanier]

That's a fabulous mission. I wish you'd been around when I got married a very, very long time ago. I might just ask you a bunch of questions and we'll see where it goes. But before we get into sort of the really sort of big marketing and meaty topics we're going to cover in a little bit in this age of social media, what's your favorite creator, what platform do you sort of watch them on and why do you like that content?

[Shan Lin Ma]

Yeah, for me I love an account called Florette Flowers, a woman who has seed and flower growing business in Washington state and she does YouTube videos that are unlike any other. They are like documentary quality videos. And started following her during the pandemic when we were all indoors a whole lot more and just never stopped.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

It's actually a great answer into the depths of the Internet. Mine are a little more obvious. Anyone who is doing like a good take on like restaurant discovery or cooking, that's the likeliest to get a follow for me. And I think that if I could have was someone who wants to be in front of the camera, which I'm not, that would be the type of like account I would want to have is just going out and telling everyone where to eat.

[Shan Lin Ma]

Well, have you seen the accounts of the private chefs who work?

[Victoria Vaynberg]

I do like those. I do like those as well. And Meredith, that's one of the Wishbone kitchen who's now like a recipe out there. Yeah, I'm into that as well.

[Joshua Spanier]

Yeah, those are all good. One of my guilty pleasures is chef reacts who is a gentleman who reviews other people's cooking and he seems to specialize in ripping apart what people are cooking. It's kind of a mean pleasure. But he's very popular and very entertaining.

[Shan Lin Ma]

Love him. Hilarious.

[Joshua Spanier]

AI has been all the theme of sort of the marketing services world and really everything everywhere in your personal life or the outside of just work. Do you find yourself using AI yet and if so, what are the use cases?

[Shan Lin Ma]

Well, I have a funny story about this actually. So I recently was applying to get my 2 year old daughter into a 2 year old school program and had to write an essay all about her. And I agonized about it for months thinking how can I write about her in a way that is different to other 2 year olds. It took me many months and then my co CEO Rachel just for fun asked ChatGPT to write the same essay and it was almost exactly the same as what I had wrote.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

It's true, I do remember this happening. Rachel that chair mentioned she's always using it. So I feel like I'm not the creative part of me really wants to fight it. So I sort of have not incorporated it into my day to day life.

[Joshua Spanier]

Yeah, I understand. I think we've all done the email and essay writing, having worked at Google for 12 years, is that AI is in everything within Google's products, in all our products. So your Netflix Q Recommendation and your Amazon Goodreads Next book up and Google Maps and all the recommendations. AI is powering all of this. Have you guys thought about it? What's going to happen with Zola and how you might sort of use AI?

[Shan Lin Ma]

Yes, we talk about this on a nearly daily basis. We actually just launched this new feature that helps couples write their thank you notes because this is one of the activities that couples dread the most. So we built an AI feature that helps you generate a thank you note in the tone that you would be wanting to write in.

[Joshua Spanier]

Smart move. I remember agonizing writing all the thank you notes. My wife made me write them all properly and I was happy to do so, but there were a lot. So that sounds like a good thing. What brands do you really love personally or do you really admire?

[Victoria Vaynberg]

I think what Bobby, the formula brand is doing from a brand standpoint is awesome. As a parent with young kids and their ability to really spend a lot of their time advocating for parental rights overall and tackling the topic of childcare and leave, those things are very personal to me from a just, like, fun standpoint to give, like, probably obvious answers. If I think about Dunkin Donuts super bowl ad right now, it makes me laugh, like, every single time. I love that they sold those, like, ridiculous jumpsuits the day after. Like, you're Dunkin Donuts, you're having fun. And I kind of love that they just lean into that, you know, their meme culture, the fact that they did something, like, super relevant and executed it so well for super bowl, it's so smart because Ben Affleck and Matt Damon love Dunkin Donuts. They obviously had to pay the money for it, but nonetheless, it's real and people know it. And they're not, you know, manufacturing a celebrity appearance for the sake of a celebrity appearance. It's like the two most well known Boston friends who love Duncan.

[Joshua Spanier]

I just want to pick up on something you said there a minute ago, V, about Duncan. And I just think it's fascinating how they are as a brand, able to play around with their personality. Right. You know, and I was wondering what that means, if you've put any thought to, like, how Zola shows up with humor.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

It's funny. We do talk about this a lot, and I think, you know, humor is a part of our personality in certain Places. And I think I'd say it's more the like relatable humor. And some of it comes from the things that we see other couples, like couples say who are getting married. I think the relatable nature of things people go through is a part of her personality. And last year we had some, you know, subway ads in New York City and we were leaning on that a bit. Like the sort of relatable humor of the one that personally resonated with me most was that you would, you know, register for an espresso machine and then still go buy an $8 latte every afternoon. That's basically me in a nutshell. So there's a lot of those realities, like listening to your own audience and tapping into the realities of the life, you know, experience or life stage or whatever the person's going through. Give you some of the best humor. Right?

[Joshua Spanier]

So humor is such a hard thing to get right, but it's something that, it feels very powerful when it's related to a human truth and is resonance to your audience, shows you understand who your audience are and what's motivating them. So let's talk a little bit about Zola in a little bit more depth. So, Sean, I'd love to start with you. You've always wanted to be an entrepreneur and then you made that jump. What was the driving focus or moment or idea that made you go, this is the moment I'm actually going to become that self starting entrepreneur?

[Shan Lin Ma]

Well, I had always dreamed about being an entrepreneur. From even a very young age. I was a nerd and I had posters on my bedroom wall of at that time, you know, Jerry Yang was an exciting founder, founder of Yahoo. He was someone who looked like me. You know, when I looked at companies like Yahoo, Google, etc. I thought, these are companies changing the world and I have to be a part of that. I wanted to be like them. And so that dream, you know, kind of stayed with me while I worked at a lot of kind of bigger tech companies. Every role that I had at every company, I was always thinking, what part of this role and company do I want to keep with me? Do I want to learn and replicate when I one day start my own, I joined another company and saw the founder of that company didn't have the experience I had yet. She was doing it, she was just going for it. And that was what the wake up call for me. If she can do it, then so can I. But she had the experience, but she also had the guts. That was the year that Just so happened all my friends were getting married at the same time. I think we all have that year where you're going to a wedding every weekend and you're buying a lot of gifts and those wedding registries that I was shopping from. For my friends, weddings were some of the worst E commerce shopping experiences I had ever seen. So, you know, really out of personal.

[Joshua Spanier]

Need, Shan you, you spent time working in really growing up in E tailors and you know, I'd love to hear you talk about sort of the evolution of the business model. I mean, you started out as a D2C, one of the original D2C brands, I guess. But just tell me a little bit about how Zollo sort of changed in your mind as you thought about the business model and how you operate.

[Shan Lin Ma]

I think the interesting challenge here has been it is many different types of businesses, business models within the company beyond the kind of commerce based product marketplace. We then launched our paper and invitations offering save the dates wedding invitations, which is closer to a D2C type business model. And then most recently, we have a vendor marketplace where couples can find venues or photographers, caterers, florists, and that is more akin to a local services marketplace. We're marketing not just to couples, but we are marketing to small businesses to try to convince them to come onto Zola. And so really had to kind of expand our vision not just for the user, but actually for what does it mean to be a multi business model business?

[Joshua Spanier]

A multi business model business. That sounds brilliant and complicated.

[Shan Lin Ma]

So it's complicated just a little bit.

[Joshua Spanier]

Do you remember the first couple who signed up for Zolla and became your first real paying customer on the site?

[Shan Lin Ma]

I do, I do. Because, you know, coincidentally they were my friends and we put the prototype of what would eventually become Zolla in front of her and she started crying because she was so happy that she could possibly even use this for her own wedding. That, that was the moment I thought, okay, we have to do this, we have to build it. This is what Zola is going to be.

[Joshua Spanier]

I want to jump forward a couple of years. At a certain point, you decided I need someone to help me run the marketing program. Right. What led you to. How did you know this was the moment? I needed this. You needed that help.

[Shan Lin Ma]

Well, you know, it was pretty simple. One board meeting, one of our board members said, this is growing really quickly. You need a cmo. I wish it was some brilliant stroke of genius on my behalf, but in this case it was someone pointing out what was blindingly obvious. But I think the reason why that was the time to bring in our first CMO was because we had already started to experiment with a bunch of different channels, but didn't have kind of an overarching strategy. You know, the people who were working on this, I had asked people who had never done it before, and so they were doing a great job. But what would it be like if we had someone who had actually done marketing before? Turned out, it helps to be clear, that's not me.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

I'm the third one, I think, in the 10 years, right?

[Shan Lin Ma]

Yeah, yeah.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

So I inherited some things.

[Joshua Spanier]

Third time's the charm. So, V, I don't want to put you on a spot and ask you what your marketing philosophy is, but you joined Zola, you've been successful, you rebranded in the last year, what have been some of the driving sort of forces under the surface behind that rebrand and behind what you're bringing for Zola in helping grow the brand.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

I've always been somebody who understands that brand and performance are kind of intertwined. And the daily articles about that kind of make me chuckle that this is a new, new thing, modern marketing. Both things matter, but that has always been how I think about things. My approach, what we were able to do with Zola is there was, right, a great base foundation. People knew the brand a lot for the registry. Right. Because for years that was the experience that the team disrupted and made better. But as Zola expanded to being a one stop shop for wedding planning, the brand positioning and the creative didn't exactly address that. And so we had this challenge of how do I get away from people only knowing us as a registry or a wedding website. We brought on a really smart strategic agency partner to help us. You know, I still remember seeing it in the pitch, which, you know, is like amazing when someone kind of nails your challenge that early. But they were like, okay, everybody in this space just talks about the wedding day. The wedding day, the wedding day, the wedding day. But we actually have nothing to do with the, the day itself. Like, by the time you're, you know, starting your wedding day, we got you to the day. And so that kind of became the base of the, you know, new brand creative platform for all the days along the way.

[Joshua Spanier]

I have no, I think we should celebrate great agencies and great work. So what was the agency that won the business you've been working with?

[Victoria Vaynberg]

Yeah, they're called Arts and Letters. They're based out of Richmond. They're actually one of Google's main agencies as well.

[Joshua Spanier]

I know them. I Know some of those people there. I didn't know it was answer letters until this moment, but fabulous. It's great. Insights drive the marketing. No matter how much AI and other stuff comes along, it's insights, ultimate matter because it's users and behaviors and being relevant to their lives. So super interesting. Thank you. It's hard to escape the culture wars, if that's the right phrase or not, but culture is everything and everywhere and can blow up everywhere. You at Zola have had to make some real decisions about how you're going to build your platform and inclusion is a massive part of that. I'd love for you to Shahnavi, just to talk a little bit about some of the sort of the choices you've made and the sort of the success has come out of that.

[Shan Lin Ma]

So right from the very beginning, we talked a lot about how we want to serve every couple. No matter what their race, religion, sexual orientation, we serve and embrace all couples. And so we built that into the product in the user experience from day one, which was very innovative at the time, it was shocking for us to see that all the other wedding planning sites just assumed it was a groom and a bride getting married. When, of course, that is not the case for everyone. In every campaign we do, we always feature a diverse range of couples. We had an instance where the Hallmark Channel refused to run some of our ads that contained same sex couples. And the thing that makes me so proud is that when that happened, the team knew immediately that it was against Zola's core values. And we didn't have to talk about it for hours. We didn't have to call big meetings. They just immediately said, we have to stand up for this and call it out because it is just not right. And they did that. And it ended up being a very special moment for Zola in that the awareness and brand love that we experienced in standing up for what we believed in was overwhelming. But the thing that I take away is that it was so ingrained in the team that this is who we are, that they could act immediately and move really quickly. And in startups and life, speed is everything. And we really, I think everyone hopefully saw the value of that.

[Joshua Spanier]

Great. Almost glad that moment happens so you can know who you are and actually live who you want to be as a company. Just awesome. Zola has grown a lot over the years. Right. I just wonder, you know, we all need help organizing our lives overall. Do you ever talk about where Zola could go beyond sort of weddings? And maybe there's a short term plan of that there's something which is very adjacent, but I wonder down the road whether you could think even bigger what that might be, if you could talk to that.

[Shan Lin Ma]

Originally I thought we are a company that helps couples with their weddings. Over time, what we've heard is that we are actually a company that helps people through important life stages. So we launched Zola Baby recently and have gotten very positive love from couples that used Zola for their weddings and then had babies. And I think every year we talk about, okay, what else are we hearing that we should actually decide this is the year that we will agree to do that from you. So.

[Joshua Spanier]

So Zola was first established in the early 2010 decade. Right.

[Shan Lin Ma]

2013.

[Joshua Spanier]

2013, which is a really fascinating moment because you have lived through the digital transformation. Back in 2013, desktop was probably still predominant in usage for something like this. Today, presumably a lot of your customers are doing things solely on the phone. What that's meant for Zola and how you've operated the marketing side, but also the UX and the business side, as.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

You just said, right. People sort of expect to be able to do everything on their phones. And we do see, you know, a very large percentage of our couples using our app to navigate wedding planning and finding that experience to be kind of the perfect compliments. You know, having this like advisor helper in your pocket in every category. Now that transforms so quickly, right? It's like, I think now people are like, oh my uber, it took four minutes to come instead of two. It's like 10 years ago you were fine waving your arm to get a taxi.

[Shan Lin Ma]

What's interesting is we found that there's certain activities that everyone wants to do on their mobile device and then there's certain activities good chunk of people actually still want to do sitting in front of a larger screen. And so for us it's. We try to think about what are the things that people just want to do inherently in a mobile way and then how can we really lean into those and use the, you know, all the capabilities of the mobile device that to. To actually innovate on what someone is trying to do. So we talked about like the AI driven thank you note feature. They want to do it very quick and easy on their phone. When they get a notification, they've got a gift, they want to just get it done, shoot it out, call it a day. And so an activity like that, we try to say, okay, how do we actually solve the reason why someone's using their mobile device to do this task?

[Joshua Spanier]

We've Had a lot of success pairing up what you might call regular advertising from a brand with creator and influencer advertising. The combination of our messaging, along with creators and their own voices talking about our brand has been really powerful. I'd love you to give your perspective on that and what you've been doing with influencers and sort of your ad strategy as well.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

Definitely. I mean, I think every brand has to have an influencer strategy, and ours is actually quite difficult to crack. So I think when we started in this testing in the space, we took sort of an ambassador approach. Right. Like, who are couples who are newly engaged and how do we partner with them and follow more of this journey? Right. But those journeys can sometimes be upwards of 15 or 18 months, and. Right. The way the creator and the Internet works is you're putting up a lot of content every day. Kind of got difficult, I think, even though the couples we were partnering with were a great fit for us and, you know, sort of covered a lot of the inclusiveness spectrum. But nowadays, I think we are more about still starting from the point of, is this a couple that's representative of our brands? And it's like, if the answer to that is no, that's like, where the buck stops. Right. So that's always, like, the first question, but then we're really working with these creators to say, you know, what did you use on Zola? And how can you talk about it in a way that is relevant to you? And we found that leaving, you know, most of it up to them and their voice and then leveraging it, you know, in our own paid creative from their channels, works the best for us. And, I mean, as you're kind of nodding, it's like, it's not new news. These people, their job is to create content. They know what their audience likes, they know how to speak. And so I think equipping them with just the facts that they need, but allowing them to tell it in their own way is kind of the key to unlocking traction for us from influencers.

[Joshua Spanier]

I'd love to ask each of you, like, calling it my three cheers, what are one, two, or three things you're really excited about for 2024, for your business, for your marketing programs, for the future, for Zola, or really anything that you think is just exciting for you?

[Shan Lin Ma]

I'm going to put something into the universe that I've been trying to pitch to V on what I would love Zola to do. So maybe I'll see what you think, Josh. You can see if you like it. So Imagine if Zola had a cat lookalike competition to find where are the cats that look the most like Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. And then once we find those cat look alikes, we can then have them date. Maybe they get engaged. Maybe we create kind of a Zola universe around these cats eventually for a cat wedding. What do you think? I'm excited about it.

[Joshua Spanier]

I'm allowed to say it sounds perfect.

[Shan Lin Ma]

There you go, baby. That's it.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

That's it. It's that or no, I think there's the put it out in the universe, you know, that Taylor and Travis get engaged and magically, you know, end up wanting to use all of that would be great.

[Shan Lin Ma]

So Taylor, Travis, I'm sure you're listening. Or anyone that has a cat who looks like Taylor Travis, you know where to find us.

[Joshua Spanier]

Okay, I think that that's a big idea and we were talking about big ideas earlier, so that's great. Okay, we're done. And I had good co stars, so again, thanks Sian and thanks Vy. We really appreciate you.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

Thank you all.

[Joshua Spanier]

A huge thank you to my guests this week. Char Lynn Ma, the CEO and founder of Zola and Victoria V. Vanberg, the chief marketing officer at Zola. If you like this episode, please subscribe to get the latest updates and the next recording as soon as it's ready. We'll see you next time. For Modern Marketers by Think with Google.

[Victoria Vaynberg]

Thank you for listening to Modern Marketers by Think with Google. Our host is Joshua Spanier. Modern Marketers is brought to you by Google and attention. The podcast is produced by the Google Ads marketing team and Frankie Guadagnino, Nagina Niazmatova and Emily Behrens for attention. Our technical producer is Kevin Fisher. Modern Marketers is edited by Sean Colello and this podcast is mixed and mastered by Andy Inglot. Our theme music is by Jerry Matei. Thanks for listening.