Modern Wisdom #1019 - “History is a Freakshow”

Chris Williamson w/ Finn Taylor & Horatio Gould

Date: November 13, 2025

Episode Overview

In this riotous and rapid-fire episode, Chris Williamson sits down with comedians Finn Taylor and Horatio Gould—creators of the popular "Finn vs History" podcast—to explore the weird, dark, hilarious, and utterly unpredictable side of history. Playing with the fine line between legitimate history and stand-up, the trio dissect why history is both therapy and absurdity, why the past is always “worse than you think,” and how contemporary life and internet culture reflect deeper patterns that have existed for centuries. The conversation leaps from British politics to Japanese kamikazes, from Churchill's drinking habits to eugenics and embryo selection, peppered with irreverent jokes, social commentary, and a steady undercurrent of British skepticism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Study History? It’s Always Been a Mess

Theme: The comforting chaos of history

• Finn and Chris joke about being “historians” now, highlighting how credentials are less important than presentation:

  “We’re just talking out of our fucking ass and people are like, oh…” - Finn (10:54)

• History as a soothing force:

  “It’s always fucked up...it’s been a lot worse and it’s gonna carry on being like this.” – Finn (00:51)

• The myth of “the good old days”:

  “This is the best it’s ever been.” – Chris (01:08)

• Comedy in academic pretense and the British accent as a “superpower” in America:

  “They just think you’re...If you put a suit on, it would be a vector for weakness.” – Finn (11:09)

2. Japanese History: Suicide, Isolation, and Cultural Weirdness

Theme: How national quirks are made

• The trio dive into Japanese honor culture, seclusion, and the infamous ritual of seppuku, seeing it through both academic and comedic lenses.
  • “The best thing about your life would be the committing suicide in 16th century Japan.” – Chris (03:20)
  • “It was playing World of Warcraft in the basement for a thousand years.” – Finn on Japanese isolation (04:39)
• The link between seppuku and WWII kamikaze:

  “Their belief system...so detached from everyday life...killing yourself for a greater cause is, to our heads, acceptable.” – Chris (07:02)

• Japan’s selective globalization and cultural uniqueness:

  “Japan is like, ‘we’ll take that, we won’t take that.’” – Finn (06:23)

• Occasional forays into Japanese sexual oddities, from Edo-era octopus porn to contemporary TV:

  “First octopus porn was in like the 1800s...beautifully carved, actually.” – Finn & Chris (05:12–05:30)

3. World War II: The Pinnacle and Fallout of Modern Myth

Theme: Why white men are obsessed with WWII

• WWII as a cultural touchstone and “season finale” for history nerds:

  “World War II stuff is kind of ASMR for white guys in their 30s.” – Chris Willx (32:16) “History is like a pyramid leading towards the big atomic explosion.” – Finn (32:35)

• The aesthetics of evil and the birth of ‘Hitler as the universal bad guy’:

  “Our modern sense of evil...all comes from [Hitler].” – Finn (34:13)

• Pro-Hitler memes and algorithmic darkness:

  “Mine's just tits and Hitler. It's crazy.” – Finn (34:45) “It’s broken past irony—it’s genuinely pretty terrifying.” – Finn (35:16)

• The seductiveness of conspiracy and revisionism:

  “The idea that you’ve been lied to is thrilling for a lot of people.” – Finn (36:14)

4. British Postwar History—Clement Attlee to Thatcher

Theme: From socialist consensus to capitalist individualism

• The “freakshow” of British PMs from WWII to Thatcher, especially the underappreciated Clement Attlee:

  “What’s defined this country is Clement Attlee and Margaret Thatcher, for sure.” – Finn (14:41)

• Postwar consensus, welfare state, and the creaking under its own weight:

  “In the space of about a year and a half, he builds the entirety of the welfare state…” – Chris (15:34)

• 1970s Britain: chaos, energy crises, and sexual awakening:

  “One of the government advice was...‘to pass the time, why don’t you experiment with your sex lives?’” – Chris (23:51) “Comic Relief in reverse—Ugandan dictator sending charitable donations to Britain. It’s exquisite.” – Chris (24:29)

5. The Internet, Irony, and Sincerity

Theme: Comedy, kayfabe, and the blurring of reality online

• The comedy show “Finn vs Internet”—a sense of humor as social litmus test:

  “The show is like a sense of humor test almost, which is a very British thing.” – Chris (64:48)

• Dangers of ironic detachment and performative sincerity online:

  “If it only ever being irony, you don’t actually get to come into contact with reality...” – Chris Willx (59:47)

• Americans’ earnestness vs. British irony:

  “After a while, if you never come into contact with sincerity, it kind of feels a bit like...where does the world exist?” – Chris Willx (66:17)

6. Science’s Dark Side—Eugenics, Phrenology, and Embryo Selection

Theme: When good science gets ugly

• The Victorian era’s “scholar and a racist” archetype:

  “It was scholarly to be racist.” – Chris (72:24)

• Francis Galton: inventor of both modern weather maps and the dog whistle (literally and metaphorically):

  “He literally invented the dog whistle.” – Chris (72:59)

• The problem with eugenics and the slippery slope to embryo selection:

  “That’s the only parent here. The whole thing about parenthood is that you don’t choose the card you’re dealt…” – Chris (83:39) “Wouldn’t you...What if you’re cutting out severe disorders?” – Finn (84:03) “Suffering is a legitimate debate as to how much suffering you can edit out of someone.” – Chris (89:25)

7. Miscellaneous Freakshow Stories

• Dancing Plague of 1518 (69:10): Entire towns dance to death—possible ergot poisoning, mass hysteria.
• Aztecs: Sacrifice festivals, massive owl costumes as final weapons in civil war, and missed opportunities to use the wheel after seeing heads roll down pyramid stairs. (41:13–44:43)
• Churchill as the proto-influencer day drinker who battled depression, and how today’s politicians lack his charisma:

  “There has been a dearth of political charisma...I guess Farage is probably the last successful.” – Chris (29:41) “Charisma’s gone because trust is gone.” – Finn (29:32)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On history’s relativity:

  “History, for me, has always been quite like a soothing thing… It’s been a lot worse and it’s gonna carry on being like this.” — Finn (00:52)

• On Japanese WWII culture:

  “You’re so Buddhist, you’re so detached from your own life, you’re so in the moment… you’ll kill yourself because you’re above it almost.” — Chris (07:44)

• On the Churchill mythos:

  “World War II stuff is kind of ASMR for white guys in their 30s.” — Chris Willx (32:16)

• On irony vs. earnestness online:

  “If it only ever being irony, you don’t actually get to come into contact with reality.” — Chris Willx (59:47)
  “Show is like a sense of humor test almost, which is a very British thing.” — Chris (64:48)

• On the dangers of selective breeding:

  “You probably love your kid less in many ways…if you’re like, I fucked up.” — Finn (85:27)

Important Timestamps & Segments

• 00:40 — History as therapy & "It's always been a mess"
• 02:34 — Life is safest now / The new tonic age / Good old days myth
• 03:09-03:46 — Japanese ritual suicide, honor, and cultural comments
• 06:12-09:22 — Japan’s uniqueness and kamikaze culture
• 13:06-14:41 — Obsession with British postwar Prime Ministers—Clement Attlee, Thatcher, and the welfare state
• 23:07-24:07 — The three-day week and 1970s sexual experimentation in Britain
• 32:16-36:15 — World War II as cultural lodestone and pro-Hitler fringe content
• 41:04-44:50 — Aztec sacrifices and history’s oddities
• 59:47-61:36 — Irony vs. earnestness in online culture
• 72:10-74:05 — Phrenology and the wacky history of scientific racism
• 81:00-86:17 — Modern embryo selection & the philosophical dilemmas of “designer babies”

Closing: What’s Next?

Finn and Horatio discuss their ongoing tour (sold out but teasing future events), upcoming bonus podcast releases, and their continued mission to reconsider the boundaries between history, comedy, and internet culture. They invite listeners to join their thriving Patreon community for immediate binge access, bonus shows, and a front-row seat to the “freakshow” of history.

Tone & Takeaway

Irreverent, fast-paced, and British to the core, this episode showcases the wild parallels between the freakier sides of history and today’s culture wars. It’s a blend of historical trivia, social criticism, and dark comic relief, making the past feel every bit as bizarre—and oddly comforting—as the present.

“It’s always been a freakshow. Just with new costumes.”

— a near-perfect tagline for this hilarious, thoughtful, and sometimes unsettling historical romp.