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- [00:00]
Kyle Forgeard
Trudeau is out. Talk to me right away.
- [00:03]
Steve Deleonardis
We're just getting into it, dude.
- [00:04]
Kyle Forgeard
This is it. This is the biggest thing that's happening, bro.
- [00:06]
Steve Deleonardis
I feel like we all knew it was gonna happen, but, yeah, just to see it finally go down, it's just. It's refreshing. I mean, like, you guys know I grew up in Canada. I moved to the States about 10 years ago when I was around 20. I'm 30 now, and it's just like, the last 10 years, what's happened has just been devastating, honestly. Like, Canada is not the same country that I knew when I was growing up.
- [00:35]
Kyle Forgeard
How much do you lie at the feet of Trudeau?
- [00:37]
Steve Deleonardis
What do you mean?
- [00:38]
Kyle Forgeard
How much is it directly. He Directly responsible for what's happening?
- [00:42]
Steve Deleonardis
I mean, if you're the commander in chief, you gotta take some blame for sure. And, yeah, I think all Canadians agree it's just a totally different place.
- [00:51]
Kyle Forgeard
How so?
- [00:52]
Steve Deleonardis
I think Canada's just lost its sense of identity a little bit. You know, I think being a little too politically correct, you know, whether it's not letting people say Merry Christmas or we have a poppy that people wear every November, Remembrance Day, which is supposed to, like, support the fallen troops, just, like, things that make us Canadian, and, like, little bits of Canadian culture are just getting lost and stuff like that. There's obviously just, you know, a lot of immigration. I think immigration could have been done a little better, but, yeah, I think we're going to see something in Canada really good. I'm really optimistic about it. I think, you see it's happening all over the world, right, not just the U.S. we saw the results of this election, and I think Canada is going to be following suit. I think Canada's in for a big comeback. I'm really excited about it.
- [01:45]
Kyle Forgeard
You're bullish on Canada.
- [01:46]
Steve Deleonardis
I'm bullish on Canada, yeah. I think. I think it's going to make a big comeback. I think Trudeau is just a complete fucking loser. Like, I don't know. I don't know what's up with that guy. I don't know if he just wanted to stay in power, but, I mean, his wife left him. Fucking. I mean, that guy just needed to get the hell out of the. Out of Parliament.
- [02:02]
Kyle Forgeard
I saw him correct somebody's language for saying mankind, shit like that.
- [02:08]
Steve Deleonardis
That's what I mean.
- [02:09]
Kyle Forgeard
We don't want to use that. We need to use people kind.
- [02:11]
Steve Deleonardis
So that type of shit has been happening just all over Kyiv.
- [02:15]
Kyle Forgeard
It feels like a Babylon Bee sketch. It doesn't feel like a real Politician saying something.
- [02:19]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just like you need someone that's going to stand up for Canada. And I think there's some good choices. The Pierre Polyvaire, I think he would do a really good job at kind of giving Canada a big comeback.
- [02:34]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, I don't know, man. It is kind of like a. Everywhere there's America and then every other English speaking country is kind of coming second at the moment. The same with Britain, the same with Australia. Like, their stock went down an awful lot after Covid and sort of this overreach and lockdowns and stuff like that. No one has really had a fantastic four years when it comes to branding.
- [02:58]
Steve Deleonardis
Unless Canada becomes the 51st state.
- [03:00]
Kyle Forgeard
Right?
- [03:00]
Steve Deleonardis
We don't know.
- [03:00]
Kyle Forgeard
But yeah, yeah. Well, it could be 52nd if Greenland goes first.
- [03:04]
Steve Deleonardis
It's weird because, like, I just went home for Christmas and like, it's kind of like 50, 50. Like, a lot of people are actually like, yo, that would be kind of sick, you know, because I think a lot of Canadians want to come to the States. Like, you know, we love traveling here and stuff like that. But then obviously there's a lot of Canadians that's like, no, what the fuck? Like, this is our country. But I think, I think Trump's just trolling when he says that type of shit.
- [03:27]
Kyle Forgeard
Well, you'd know. You've spent enough time with him.
- [03:28]
Steve Deleonardis
I would know. And I think I've spent a lot of time with him. But the last time that I was with him, which was when we flew on his plane right before the election, I got to see like a more real side of him, kind of like a button down, literally version. Like, he had his jacket off, he had a few buttons off, and he was just himself.
- [03:47]
Kyle Forgeard
What does that mean? What's. What is Trump's himself?
- [03:50]
Steve Deleonardis
I don't, I can't. I don't want to say everything because it's just, you know, it's boys. Boys being boys at the same time. But I don't know, it was. The way I can explain it is almost like he was like six beers deep, but he wasn't. Like, it was just like, he was just having the best time. We were just laughing, cracking jokes, just boys being boys. So I think. And he gets a kick out of getting a reaction out of people. So I think when he sees this whole 51st state thing and he sees people like, reacting to it, he's gonna kind of go with it. And I think it's also kind of like a negotiation tactic. Too, you know, to really. I mean, the Canadian leaders are all responding to it. It's such an absurd thing, but at the same time, it's becoming so real now that all these Canadian leaders are actually having to respond to it.
- [04:33]
Kyle Forgeard
That's how you know that the troll's gone far enough.
- [04:36]
Steve Deleonardis
He's so good at trolling that these guys are actually having to respond, take it seriously, you know what I'm saying? Unless they're going to be the governor of Canada.
- [04:41]
Kyle Forgeard
What have you learned since being around him? Watching the way that he operates, watching his systems, his staff, his demeanor? Was there anything that you took away from spending time with him?
- [04:52]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, that guy's like. I mean, when that guy walks into a room, obviously he just soaks up, obviously all the attention in the room. That's one thing I noticed too. One thing I noticed about him too, is like, yeah, he's very. He likes to get everybody's opinion, whether you're like his most trusted advisor or someone like me or someone that is just in the room. He's always asking people, what do you think about this? What do you think about this? What do you think about this? What do you think about this? I noticed that he does that a lot, and I think he's just like, subconsciously, like, kind of collect. It's like a poll he does. And I've noticed that he does that a lot. He's always asking people what they think of something. And then I think that's how he kind of makes decisions as well. It's interesting.
- [05:39]
Kyle Forgeard
I've heard a lot of criticism around, you know, sort of shallow, fragile ego thing. Not necessarily wanting to hear other people that tell him no or that say things that he doesn't fully understand. But on the flip side, I've also heard a lot of that, that he's always asking, like, servers in restaurants and the golf caddy for what their opinion is on stuff. So you have this odd dichotomy thing going on.
- [06:05]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, he definitely. He definitely loves himself. There's. There's no question about that. But you're right. Yeah, exactly. If you're at a golf course, he's talking to like the back shop guys. Like he's a people's person, which. Which I find very interesting. I think that's one of his. His little secrets.
- [06:19]
Kyle Forgeard
And you guys got kind of involved in politics a little bit.
- [06:24]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, we did. We. Yeah, we worked with like an organization called Send the Vote. So they were like a bipartisan organization and it was just about helping people register to vote. So we kind of pushed that on our like social media and stuff because obviously Nelk, we kind of own that male 18 to 35 vote. So yeah, we were responsible for like hundreds of thousands of people registering to vote, which was pretty crazy. Like after the election, like people were coming up to me on the street and like thanking me. Like I'd be at the gym and people like, people were like walking up to me being like, yo, thank you. Like thank you for what you did. Like it was kind of like weird, you know, I don't know, I just feel so normal. And we were just kind of doing what our heart felt like. We were obviously big Trump supporters. So yeah, that whole election was crazy. And then Dana White shouted us out in that, the post election speech. Like we were the first ones to get shouted out. So that whole thing was just surreal. And I'm from Canada, so like I'm not even, I can't even, I can't.
- [07:27]
Kyle Forgeard
Even speak about as a Canadian.
- [07:28]
Steve Deleonardis
Like to me, for me to get shout out, shouted out in the post election speech. Yeah, like my parents are like, what the fog. Like everyone's just like, what? This is a fucking simulation.
- [07:36]
Kyle Forgeard
It is bizarre. The crossing over of independent media with mainstream political discourse.
- [07:41]
Steve Deleonardis
Well, that's what, that's what we saw this election, right? I guess, yeah. All the, the old news networks now are fascinated and I had to do a bunch of interviews after that election too. And they're all fascinated with how did the Internet win this election? Why are young people so obsessed with the Internet? Why, why do they watch podcasts? Like these people are old. They have no fucking clue what like you and I are doing. Like they really don't. For us it's so, it makes so much sense. Like Trump goes on Joe Rogan. Like obviously that's going to be big. But for them, they're like, why was that Joe Rogan thing so big? Like they're that stupid.
- [08:15]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, it's odd. I think I take for granted a lot of stuff that to me seems like a, like a normal assumption. Like obviously this reaches a lot of people. Obviously 18 to 35 year old guys are spending more time on YouTube than they are on CNN or MSNBC. Like who, who wouldn't have thought that? And the fact that there's people to that to whom that is a revelation. Really made me realize just how split off and echo chambered not only the messages that you get within social media, but even medias themselves now.
- [08:51]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, I think we probably take the knowledge that like you and I have for granted. Right.
- [08:55]
Kyle Forgeard
Hugely.
- [08:55]
Steve Deleonardis
It's just. Yeah, it's so normal. It's so a part of our everyday lives. But, yeah, for. Especially for older people, they just have. They have no clue what's going on.
- [09:04]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah. The impact, it's very powerful what we have.
- [09:07]
Steve Deleonardis
Obviously, we both own our. Like, it's almost like we own our own network. Right. Like, we do. So we're in a.
- [09:13]
Kyle Forgeard
Do you think about. Have you got to the stage where there's this sense of responsibility or obligation with sort of what you're doing, what you're saying. We were talking about this in the gym earlier on that as the platform grows.
- [09:26]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [09:27]
Kyle Forgeard
How much of a obligation do you have? Or is it. Can you still just. I'm here having fun, just doing my thing, bro. Like, I don't know if you reach a couple of hundred million people a month, that it changes.
- [09:41]
Steve Deleonardis
The key to Nelk has always just been as best as we can. Just trying to stay true to, like, what I think. And what I think is funny. Like, I actually like Trump. That's why I fucking supported him. I didn't do it for any other reason. You know what I'm saying? If I didn't like him, I wouldn't have supported him. Simple as that. So I try to stick to that as much as I possibly can. But, yeah, obviously, as you get bigger, I guess there is more responsibility. But we're so lucky with our fan base that we've always been like the quote unquote, like, bad guys or like scumbags. So it's not like we were like Jake Paul or like Logan Paul or like David Dobrik that were more squeaky clean. Squeaky clean. You know what I mean? And you're waiting.
- [10:23]
Kyle Forgeard
What did you expect?
- [10:23]
Steve Deleonardis
You're waiting for them to make a mistake. Like, they're perfect and then, boom, when they make a mistake, they get canceled. For us, we've just been scumbags. Like, we started as scumbags. We've never been good guys. Like, we've been getting arrested since 10 years ago. We've been fucking with people, messing with people. So if anything, we've gotten, like, we've actually more responsible. Yeah, we've improved as people. We're growing, we're maturing.
- [10:47]
Kyle Forgeard
Oh, my God. Yeah.
- [10:48]
Steve Deleonardis
So I think that's one thing that I'm always feel blessed with too, is that, yeah, our fans just don't really care.
- [10:54]
Kyle Forgeard
I mean, you set such low expectations.
- [10:56]
Steve Deleonardis
We set such low expectations. That's the key.
- [10:59]
Kyle Forgeard
Set low expectations, then you can't Ever get worse? Yeah, that's funny. I remember Rogan saying something along the lines of everybody should always do a comedy set. Everyone should do a comedy set once so that you can go, hey, what do I know? I'm just a comedian. And you get the comedian ejector seat, get out of jail free card. And that's the same with you guys. It's like we just do, we just do prank YouTube.
- [11:22]
Steve Deleonardis
But all those guys were still like, like in terms of partying. I feel like we were like the first people to ever show like alcohol even like really YouTube. Like the first time we went to LA, I think, like, yeah, no one really showed anything. But behind the scenes they were obviously doing the same shit, right? Or worse. Like all, all the squeaky clean kids were the ones like that you'd see rip and blow in the fucking Hollywood Hills bathrooms and shit, I swear to God. So I was like, so they're doing it behind the camera but they have to put on this good boy image which kind of fucks them.
- [11:56]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, because everybody's waiting to find out that the holier than thou squeaky clean image is actually broken in some way. Yeah, I mean the reverse of it being like, you know, Kyle actually went to church on Sunday. That's not a scandal. Yeah, but the guy that was going to church on Sunday ripping a gator tail the night before is. Yeah, talk to me about gator tail.
- [12:18]
Steve Deleonardis
We have a lot of the same lingo is UK and Canadian. Like.
- [12:23]
Kyle Forgeard
I don't know, I guess it's just scumbag working class party people.
- [12:29]
Steve Deleonardis
Right.
- [12:29]
Kyle Forgeard
And it's a universal language across.
- [12:32]
Steve Deleonardis
Gator tail's pretty niche.
- [12:33]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, I suppose so.
- [12:35]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [12:36]
Kyle Forgeard
Anyway, I imagine that the Aussies are exactly the same. Everyone's got their own slang. There's only so many different ways that you can talk about sniffing cocaine or girls. Exactly. Both. Talk to me about that sort of trip out to LA and sort of what you learned about LA scene. You've done a few, you did the like LA full D gen modes, then the Orange county thing, now the Miami thing. What have you learned? Like take me through the different eras of stages of scenes. Yeah, exactly.
- [13:04]
Steve Deleonardis
Fuck. I mean, yeah, the first, Trying to think of the first time I. Yeah, the first time it was me and Jesse. At the time we had, I believe we road trip there from Toronto to LA. So 36 hour drive in his like shitty car. Called it the Toaster. It was like a Nissan, like one of those boxy ass cars. We had like a cooler of food just like we packed a bunch of food, put it in the cooler because like we were dead broke at the time too. And we road trip to Vidcon and his. We would stay at fans houses along the way too. So we just post on Snapchat and say like, hey, who wants to. We're going to be in St. Louis tonight, we need to crash somewhere. And then I would like add them on snap. I'd FaceTime the people, like make sure they weren't like a fucking psycho. And we ended up staying at over like probably 30 fans houses throughout like our little trips. And none of them were ever weird. And then his car broke down in like the middle of the desert. We got stuck there for a week and like we posted again on Snapchat and fans had to come pick us up from Palm Springs and drive us to LA. And then we made it to VidCon. So that was like our first time kind of being around like other YouTubers and seeing like people that were like really popping successful. I think that was at the time, like faze. Like we met like all those guys and I remember those guys came up to us too. Like someone faze adapt. He was like really, really big at the time and he told us like, yo, we watch your videos like every night when we're high and shit. And just to see respect from other big YouTubers at the time, I think that really motivated us. So after that, for the next probably five years, we would do like, we would be in Canada. I was working at a golf course, so I worked like, I did events, I did the back shop and I would just save up money. And then we would do a trip to LA for like three months, however long we could afford. Grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. Go back to Canada, try to keep it going. And that went on for like five years until we officially moved to la. Yeah, so it was like, it was a crazy time. And every time we'd go home to Canada, things would kind of slow down a little bit, you know. Cause you're living at your parents house, your parents are kind of in your ear a little bit. My parents were super supportive, but I know Jesse's parents were a little bit in his ear, but yeah, when we got out to la, the, the very first time full time, it was like definitely a big game changer for us.
- [15:37]
Kyle Forgeard
Which one felt like real life? Did going back home to Canada feel like real life or did LA felt.
- [15:42]
Steve Deleonardis
Like, I guess at the time, probably going back to LA felt like real life. I think, I think and I guess that's kind of sad in a way, right? But yeah, you kind of just, you kind of just outgrow it a little bit, I think, you know, And I, I was so blessed to grow up in Canada. The way I grew up was just like completely normal middle class, like just playing street hockey every day after school, running way too much Call of Duty, just normal shit, you know, so. But then you kind of just outgrow it. And I think, yeah, we'd go home and things would just kind of slow down. Everyone around you is kind of, you know, they're all in university too. So then when you go to your friends houses, like their parents are asking you, like, oh, like, what are your plans? Like, what are you doing? Like, are you gonna go back to school? Like, you're kind of. Everywhere you go, you're kind of hit with that question, like, oh, are you going to school? What are you doing? What's your plan? And I think that kind of subconsciously, like, eats at you a little bit too.
- [16:43]
Kyle Forgeard
I think a lot of people get stuck in that messy middle period, that sort of lonely chapter. Maybe they're doing something that's a little bit different to what their friends around them are. Maybe there's some press from family, girlfriend, everyone, society to do something that feels a little bit more safe.
- [17:00]
Steve Deleonardis
They're kind of making you feel a little bit like a loser, right? And then you're telling them, like, oh, well, I'm doing this YouTube thing. And they're like, ha. Like, even your friends are kind of like, come on. You know, my friends always fucking supported me, so I never had like, people putting me down. But you feel it a little bit, right?
- [17:19]
Kyle Forgeard
What would you say to someone who's sort of a little bit younger and has those dreams of breaking out from the mold, but is. Is kind of uncertain.
- [17:27]
Steve Deleonardis
Damn. I think there's almost, I mean, I know in Canada especially there's almost like more security in like chasing your dream now. Like, I think it's. It seems so hard to get a, a really good job coming out of school now. Especially where I'm from back home, I know people are coming out of school and they just can't get jobs. So I would say, I mean, to me, you only have one life. The scariest thing to me more than like being broke for a little bit is like living a life that you don't want to live. You know, I think a lot of people, the main thing is they're just scared to be broke for a little bit. Like, they're like, well, how am I going to pay my bills? What am I going to do? And it's like, I mean, we were broke for a long time. Like, we were struggling. Like, we would sleep in cars, we would sleep at fan's houses. Like, you gotta go through that stage of being broke, being having no money to. To kind of get to where you need to be. Right.
- [18:21]
Kyle Forgeard
What was the scene in LA like? Cause you were. You guys were there pretty much in sort of the golden era of Degen in.
- [18:27]
Steve Deleonardis
We were there. We were there when YouTube was probably its biggest. It was like Jake Paul was his probably biggest, doing daily vlogs every day. David Dobrik. And then they had the cloud house. So Faze Banks, I don't know if you know him, but he's like the owner of Faze. I give a lot of credit to, to him. He basically tweeted out at us and just said, hey, do you guys want to move into the cloudhouse? And that was like him, Alyssa Violet, Ricegum, Summer Ray, Wolfie, who was huge at the time. So these were like the biggest YouTubers and we're like nowhere on their level. And yeah, we land in la, start driving, and we're driving up through the Hollywood Hills and then we pull up to this massive mansion that we see in all these people's videos. And that was just like completely surreal. Like, I couldn't even believe it, just walking into that house. Like, it's a completely insane house. $100 million and we got to live there for like six months rent free. Shut up. Faze Banks, he's a fucking legend. I owe him for life. But yeah, that was a crazy time. Just like it was Hollywood, like house parties and like you never knew who was gonna pull up. Like Lil Uzi would pull up to your house or like rappers, all the girls. It was pretty crazy. It was a crazy time.
- [19:50]
Kyle Forgeard
And then you go to Orange County.
- [19:52]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, so we stayed in LA for a little bit. We got our own house there too after that. We had like the first house we ever signed a lease on too. I think we had like probably 20 people living in there and like an eight bedroom. So that was like our very first house. We had one room with like three or like two, three story bunk beds. So like six guys sleeping in a movie theater room.
- [20:15]
Kyle Forgeard
Wow.
- [20:15]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, it was just like, it was kind of like the La Nelk frat house. So that worked for a bit.
- [20:20]
Kyle Forgeard
And were they staff friends?
- [20:22]
Steve Deleonardis
Staff and friends. I mean, I live with four of my boys that I grew up with here, but yeah, we probably have like seven of my boys that are on that work for us and do different things, whether it's social media or merch or different stuff that we have going on. But. Yeah.
- [20:39]
Kyle Forgeard
Do you miss it? Do you miss that LA period, the LA scene?
- [20:42]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, I miss it. It was pretty surreal. I mean, to live in a house like that and just. I feel like no one really gets to experience that, you know, it was a cool time, but I think, yeah, I think LA is just different now. And now it's more of a, like, it's more of like a TikTok y scene. We don't really need to be around there too much. There's a lot of good podcast guests there too. So we still make LA trips, but we moved to Miami about a year ago and I fucking love it.
- [21:10]
Kyle Forgeard
Talk to me about the difference between LA Miami.
- [21:12]
Steve Deleonardis
I mean, California is just a little too liberal for us, I think. I don't know, I feel like if we did our whole Trump thing during the election, I feel like we would have been getting grilled everywhere we went. Right. Like, we probably would have got shot up on Melrose and shit. It's dangerous there too. Like, I know, it's like my boy Steinie, he got his car robbed. Like, it's, it's, it's like turning into a.
- [21:33]
Kyle Forgeard
Out in the open.
- [21:35]
Steve Deleonardis
Like he just parked it and someone just like robbed his car. Like, it's pretty dangerous there, I think. And then Florida, just no income tax for me. Like I told you, it's way closer to Toronto. So I find myself.
- [21:46]
Kyle Forgeard
I always forget about going back home a lot more.
- [21:48]
Steve Deleonardis
Seeing my family, seeing my friends.
- [21:50]
Kyle Forgeard
How long it is to fly across the country. If you do LA to New York, it's what, five hours?
- [21:57]
Steve Deleonardis
Probably six. Five and a half.
- [21:58]
Kyle Forgeard
Right. Plus three.
- [21:59]
Steve Deleonardis
Then you lose three hours.
- [22:00]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah. So it's a red eye within the same country.
- [22:02]
Steve Deleonardis
A day to get there and a day to get back. Two travel days. So, yeah, I think LA is just a lot different now. It's just not. It's not quite the same as it used to be.
- [22:11]
Kyle Forgeard
Mm.
- [22:12]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [22:13]
Kyle Forgeard
But you're locking in a little bit more in Miami as well.
- [22:16]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah. Like health wise, you mean? Yeah, I think this is the best place to kind of be healthy. It's a good HQ for us because we travel so much too. Most of our work is on the road, whether it's nelk videos or podcasts. So I like coming back here because you saw how it was this morning. Like, this is all we do when we're home. Like it's like two different lives. One's on the road and then when we're back here, like I really don't do shit. I wake up, I fucking work out and then I'll just chill, keep the business moving on my phone, keep videos moving, planning golf and then we go on the road again and it's chaos.
- [22:52]
Kyle Forgeard
Was there a moment that you broke through, do you think, with Nelk? Yeah.
- [22:57]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, I don't think so. I think the secret to Nelk and why we have such a cult following is that there's never been one moment that made us. It's just been like this the whole time. There was never like a huge thing. So I think when you blow up that fast like these like, like hawktuas or whoever have you, they come and go so fast, right? They get so famous so quickly and people become obsessed with them and then they're just gone.
- [23:25]
Kyle Forgeard
I think there's also.
- [23:26]
Steve Deleonardis
You got to build, you got to build that foundation.
- [23:28]
Kyle Forgeard
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- [24:55]
Steve Deleonardis
Go, huh, I wish it was me.
- [24:57]
Kyle Forgeard
If, if you get picked out of obscurity because you said a funny sentence on a street interview.
- [25:03]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [25:04]
Kyle Forgeard
Everybody knows that if not for the chance of God. Yeah, that could have been one of a hundred thousand other people.
- [25:11]
Steve Deleonardis
I agree, I agree with that too. But I think, I mean, you know how much work this is behind the scenes and how strategic you have to be too, for us. Like we've been doing this for 10 years. So like, you also learn along the way. Right? So now where I am, where I am, where the stakes are the highest and like you said, there's more responsibility. I've learned so many lessons. Don't do this. Don't, you know, maybe don't trust this person. Don't get into business with this person. These people overnight 24 hours, they're super famous and they have no fucking clue.
- [25:43]
Kyle Forgeard
How this business works, how to decide.
- [25:46]
Steve Deleonardis
Who to trust, who to let in. They have no fucking clue. So they're like, they're pretty much, they're going to get screwed. Unless they're a genius. Right. Some of them last, but most of.
- [25:55]
Kyle Forgeard
Them don't you just say yes to. The first person that pops up in your DMs is usually the one that's the most shocky.
- [26:00]
Steve Deleonardis
Exactly. And I've, I've almost got screwed by managers and shit too. Like I've been.
- [26:05]
Kyle Forgeard
You've come close to a couple of catastrophes.
- [26:06]
Steve Deleonardis
So close, bro. Decisions that would not make me be here right now. For sure. Like, really? Yeah, for sure. We've almost signed with like a few different managers that maybe even like we were really close to like giving like equity away. That would have like torched us. So, like one thing too, if people are listening, like, you got to be very, very careful who you trust. You know, like having a partner is like, it's like a marriage. You gotta like, you gotta be careful who you get into business with.
- [26:35]
Kyle Forgeard
So what's the overall lesson there? Is that move slowly, sort of don't make rash decisions?
- [26:40]
Steve Deleonardis
I think so. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta move slow, I think. Yeah, you gotta get a team of people around you that you can kind of trust. Whether it's friends, you know, something, someone that you can at least bounce ideas off. Cause. Yeah, yeah, I would say just move slow. You know, don't react too quickly to things. Sit back and just kind of See how things play out sometimes.
- [27:02]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah. I get the sense that especially in the fast moving world of Internet content creation, whether it's brand deals, even if you're trying to build a business, you know, there's always this sense that somebody else could be doing this. What if someone else is starting the same business at the same time as me? Oh my God, this is good. I need to, I must get it moving and so on and so forth. But the risk of ruin, of getting it wrong is 100.
- [27:25]
Steve Deleonardis
I agree.
- [27:26]
Kyle Forgeard
And the risk of being second or third or fourth to market, the likelihood of somebody else having the exact same idea and executing it as well as you can if you take your time.
- [27:34]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [27:34]
Kyle Forgeard
Seems way slower. So. Yeah, I've, I agree with that.
- [27:36]
Steve Deleonardis
I never give a about what anyone else is doing, really. Like, maybe I'll get some inspiration from other people, but like, yeah, even some people in our crew will be like, yo, like, this person's doing this. Like we, we should be doing this. And I'm like, dude, just relax. Like, this is, this game too is a marathon. It's not a sprint. Like the entire social media business is like, it is such a mental marathon that if you get caught up in like what other people are doing or, you know, you're gonna lose it. And I think the most important thing with this is you gotta keep like, you gotta keep your mind right too. That's why I personally don't get caught up in like, if I need like a month off from like doing something or like videos, I don't get caught up on that. Cause I feel like if people look back and 10 years, they're not going to remember like, oh, they took a month off or whatever it is.
- [28:20]
Kyle Forgeard
So from the business side, what's the most revenue that you guys have generated in a day?
- [28:28]
Steve Deleonardis
Revenue. I mean, our merch business, I don't think anyone's ever really. I feel like we were putting up like Kylie Jenner numbers at that time in the peak of our like, merch business, when we were uploading Nelc every week on the road. I think our biggest, our biggest was 30 million gross in about 30 minutes. 30 million in revenue. We had 350,000 people waiting on the site at the time of the drop. Like, even Shopify was like, what the fuck is going on? Yeah. And that's revenue, right?
- [29:03]
Kyle Forgeard
So that's, that's top line.
- [29:04]
Steve Deleonardis
That's one thing I've never really talked about too much too is. And I know my part, my old partner Jesse could, would agree to is that the revenue sounds nice, but when you talk about profit and how much we were spending on videos, maybe people that we pranked were suing us. Like, there's. There is so much when you. That number sounds amazing. But in terms of what me and Jesse were chipped away, able to pocket, and, you know, like, Steve will do it. He was getting paid directly off merch. So what me and Jesse were even able to pocket was, like, nowhere even near that.
- [29:38]
Kyle Forgeard
It's. That line about revenue is vanity, profit is sanity.
- [29:42]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah. I don't even like talking about revenue too much, to be honest. It sounds great and it's great to.
- [29:46]
Kyle Forgeard
Brag about, but I think it's a good. I understand what you mean, and it's nice that you're sufficiently humble that you don't want to flex the biggest number that you can. But on the flip side, what it teaches people is what you can drive in terms of just raw traffic. Right. In order to take 30mil, you need.
- [30:07]
Steve Deleonardis
To be able to have 350,000 people on the site.
- [30:10]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, correct.
- [30:11]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, that. That's impressive for sure. Like, we'd look at the map of the Shopify. I don't know if you've ever done, like, a live drop, and you can see all the little. It shows where people are on the site from in the entire world. So you just see all these little dots and, like, you're seeing people in, like, India. And, like, it was cool. It was a really cool. That era of nelk was like, when was that? That had to be like, 2017, maybe 2016.
- [30:44]
Kyle Forgeard
So this is before John, your now business partner, manager.
- [30:48]
Steve Deleonardis
This is before that. Yeah.
- [30:50]
Kyle Forgeard
And you were able to still spin this up, just all internally?
- [30:52]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah. I mean, that's what drew them to us, was the type of numbers we were putting up. I don't think. I don't know. I don't want to say it, but I don't think anyone's ever really done what we've done with merch in, like, a YouTube business.
- [31:08]
Kyle Forgeard
What does the sort of structure of that stuff look like internally.
- [31:13]
Steve Deleonardis
Back then? Yeah, it was all in house. Everything was in house. So we would, like. We had designers on payroll. We had a bunch of different people that would source stuff from China. All the marketing was done by osgod, who's like our creative genius. He's the goat. He edits all our videos. Every. Everything was done in house, which was even crazier. So when we would do a drop, there'd be like 25 people, and we'd all be in our nelk frat house, just everyone has their laptops open and we're all watching the numbers, full WI fi connections. But at that time it was crazy because that was the only thing we were doing. You know, there was no happy dad, there was no brand deals, not even any podcast, There was no podcast. The only thing we were doing was pushing merch. And we and our fans literally like helped us build this because like we weren't getting paid off YouTube at all. Why we never got paid off YouTube. We got, we were demonetized since day one. Like for swearing, for alcohol, for drug references. Our videos never got monetized. So that was like, that's how we built our merch business. Like we were, we were getting needed.
- [32:23]
Kyle Forgeard
Something that was partner program because the partner program didn't exist.
- [32:26]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, we weren't getting paid. So it was kind of a blessing in disguise. We had to get smart and build a business around our audience so we weren't lying when we were looking into the lens and telling our fans like, hey guys, if you guys buy merch, like you're keeping the.
- [32:40]
Kyle Forgeard
I can eat dinner.
- [32:41]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, I can eat dinner. And not only that, I can make, we can continue to make these videos. So that's how it was like a reoccurring thing where our fans literally kind of helped us make all these videos.
- [32:51]
Kyle Forgeard
I think there's something cool and probably another important lesson there to just linger on about focusing on one thing. So you need to learn how business works, what a good deal looks like, what a bad deal looks like, a good release and build up scheduled, building the anticipation, all of that stuff. And if you try and do it with too many things at once, it's difficult to learn what the lesson is because you're so distributed, you're so spread across all of these different projects that you're not actually focused, you're not drilling in the learnings from this one thing. So for me it was nightclubs and for running 15 years of all of these different events and I would really, really dial in what a good build up sequence looked like. And I would understand how to use anticipation to get people to really care about what the outcome was going to be. And then I'd understand what the drop off in terms of interest was and then how you can then restart that with more things and more things and more things. And that now gets ported across. When we did the launch for Newtonic, I did exactly the same thing. It might as well have been a club night if you changed it from productivity drink to New club night Fridays at whatever club. It would have been the exact same process, the exact same thing that I'd learned. And I'm going to guess that it's the same thing that you learned from the merch that you then poured across onto Happy dad that you then brought across. Oh, we've got a new guest coming out.
- [34:08]
Steve Deleonardis
It's just building hype.
- [34:09]
Kyle Forgeard
Yep.
- [34:10]
Steve Deleonardis
Everything, everything in this business is just building hype. Right. And once you learn how to do that, I feel like you can apply it to anything.
- [34:16]
Kyle Forgeard
Talk to me about the principles that you sort of think about when it comes to building up hype around either a drop, new video, new podcast episode, new Happy dad collab. Like, what are the main areas that you're. That you're looking at?
- [34:32]
Steve Deleonardis
I don't know. I'm not the best at kind of defining the way that like my mind works sometimes. But I mean, building hype. Yeah, you can't go go wrong with just literally what it is, is building hype is like, you know, say it's dropping on this date and then maybe two days later, post something else about it, Remind people. Two days later, post something different and engaging, remind them again. And then the day of, you know, posting like a bunch of times before something happens, I think sometimes it is fire just hitting them with the sneak attack drop too, because that goes crazy sometimes. But yeah, you can't go wrong with building hype and doing multiple posts. Building anticipation. Yeah.
- [35:13]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah. I mean, there was this really interesting study that was done that I loved because I was starting to learn about psychology, but I was still in nightlife. And they got people to track their level of happiness throughout the entire day and night of going out on a night out. And you'd think, at what point would happiness be at its highest? Maybe 12 midnight when you've got a good enough buzz on and you're with your friends and the music's amazing, but you're not too messy and so on and so forth. It was way before that, the time when people were happy.
- [35:43]
Steve Deleonardis
The best part of the night's the.
- [35:44]
Kyle Forgeard
Pregame, getting ready with your friends when the music. So what does that tell you? It tells you that the absolute bullseye of human pleasure is things are about to be awesome. It's anticipation that's very interesting. It's not about the payoff, it's about waiting for the payoff. Like, the hottest part of sex is not the sex bit. It's the bit as you're taking your clothes off before sex. Yeah, that's the hardest Part because it's the anticipation of what's about to happen. And I think that, you know, what you guys have landed on, and certainly what I've landed on. It's the same reason that we release clips from this podcast before we release the full episode. So this will have a Tuesday clip and a Friday clip, and then the episode goes on the Monday. Because it builds up that anticipation. And sometimes people say that it's cruel, but I think it's just effectively utilizing the human reward system.
- [36:31]
Steve Deleonardis
That's a good way of defining it. Yeah. Because the pre game is the best part of the night for sure. When all the boys are just there before the girls pull up and you're just cranking beers, just chilling. So I can definitely relate to that, actually.
- [36:42]
Kyle Forgeard
Talk to me about the other side then. So if that's the most revenue that you've made in a day, what about the most money that you've spent in a day?
- [36:48]
Steve Deleonardis
Most money I've spent. I'm not a huge. I have a few watches and I have like a car. But I think. Yeah, the most money I've spent, I guess, was probably. It's not like a purchase, but probably. I retired my parents in the same day about four or five years ago. So that took about $700,000. So one. One year at Christmas, I just. I had enough money to do it. And like, one thing about me is, like, a lot of people said their parents never supported them, but for me, I would be like, nowhere without my parents. I got so fucking lucky. And like my mom just says too, like, they just had blind faith. Like, they just believed in me and they supported me. So when I kind of had enough money to do that, I just did it. So that took about. Yeah. Like $700,000 to do that.
- [37:40]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah. That's a big.
- [37:41]
Steve Deleonardis
And then my mom got. My mom got carried away. She. I guess she has the free spirit like me. She like invested it in like a bunch of, like.
- [37:47]
Kyle Forgeard
She didn't fucking retire Ethereum.
- [37:49]
Steve Deleonardis
No, she put it in. She put it in the fucking housing market. And Trudeau fucked us over the last five years. So now I gotta. I just told her this Christmas I gotta re retire her until she can those houses. So when. When Trudeau gets the out, she'll be able to sell the two houses that she bought and then. Yeah, but that's probably. I like spending my money more on, like, memories and like, taking all my friends on like, a trip.
- [38:14]
Kyle Forgeard
What about some of the trips?
- [38:16]
Steve Deleonardis
I mean, we just had a. Yeah. Like this week For New Year's like we just went like a bunch of different places. Like we just did like fun shit with everyone, like yachts and like stuff like that. Or like we'll go to Cancun and rent a house and just like chill, stuff like that. Like I feel like spending your money on memories and like I love bringing my friends with me and just like having like a sick ass time. I feel like I spend too much money on that type of shit. But in terms of like watches or jewelry or shit like that, I'm not super into that. I don't hate it.
- [38:47]
Kyle Forgeard
But that's a good.
- [38:48]
Steve Deleonardis
I guess memories is the best.
- [38:50]
Kyle Forgeard
I was gonna say it's the fucking best. Is the lesson from that that as somebody who's come into young wealth, you've tried, I'm gonna guess buying expensive car, you just got a new car, new watches, clothes.
- [39:04]
Steve Deleonardis
But Steve will do it. He bought me my first car. Shout out Steve. So I've actually, this is actually the first car I've probably ever bought to be honest. Cause Steve will do it. Bought me my first car. He bought me an Audi RS7. So that was like 140 grand. Shout out to Steve. He's bought like 40 people cars. So then the Audi just shut down thing was a piece of shit over like four years later. So I was able to just trade that in as the down payment and then just get this new car. My business manager said it was a great investment to just finance it. So it was actually the first car I've ever bought.
- [39:36]
Kyle Forgeard
Thank you business manager. But yeah, the overall lesson there is as you start to accumulate some spare wealth that you think on balance spending it on experiences, especially experiences that you can share with your friends is the best way to do it.
- [39:50]
Steve Deleonardis
I love that. Yeah, that's my favorite. It's just because you never forget that shit too, you know. And it's like, yeah, not everyone can do that shit. So to just, I don't know. That to me is just stuff you never forget. And it just makes you so happy having a good ass time with like your boys. Nothing beats that.
- [40:09]
Kyle Forgeard
What are some of your favorite memories from the last few years? Maybe ones that haven't been captured on camera.
- [40:18]
Steve Deleonardis
I mean if they haven't been captured on camera, it's probably for a reason. So I probably can't really talk about them.
- [40:23]
Kyle Forgeard
Well, all right. Include the ones that have been captured on camera.
- [40:25]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, definitely last week we can't talk about. But I mean best memories I think like probably, yeah. One of the coolest things we ever did, I think was probably the first time we went to Abu Dhabi I was telling you about that to me was like one of the craziest thing. It was the craziest two weeks I've ever had in my life. Because the UFC brought us out to Abu Dhabi for Khabib's last fight during the COVID bubble, the heat of COVID So we had to quarantine for a total of like four days to get there. And then that's when we met like Dana White for the very first time in Abu Dhabi. We got like a whole full scale treatment there. And then one week later, we went on Air Force One with Dana too and met Trump for the first time in 2020. So that was like, that's probably the coolest two weeks. That like really changed my life. I think that just like every time I think back to it, I'm just like, this is a mind fuck. Like, how did this happen to me? It's just, yeah, there's so much crazy shit with Nelk and like over the last 10 years. It's just so surreal. I can't even believe it.
- [41:36]
Kyle Forgeard
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- [42:41]
Steve Deleonardis
A lot. I've. I've looked up to Dana White like my whole life. Honestly, Like, I've. Me and my dad would. Would watch ufc, like, when it was on Spike tv, when it was just, like, it was nothing. You know, I've been watching since I was probably in, like, eighth grade. So I've looked up to Dana White, and a lot of the UFC is, like, way bigger now. I don't know how long you've been following it, but it wasn't the UFC that it was today. Like, right now, it's just, like, it's such a big brand and stuff, but they had to, like, battle to build that. So I've kind of seen the evolution of the ufc, as I'm sure a lot of people have listening. And, like, this shit wasn't even, like, legal in states. Like, it used to not be legal in New York. Like, I watch these guys, like, battle state by state, never give up, and just build it into this, like, incredible fucking brand that it is today. And you see all these other MMA organizations now. It's never going to compete with the ufc. Like, the UFC is fucking unmatched. But, yeah, so I've always looked up to Dana White for that and just what he's been able to achieve. And he's just. You can see he's not a quitter from the outside. And then when I met him, you can really see, like, that guy's not a fucking quitter.
- [43:53]
Kyle Forgeard
How so?
- [43:54]
Steve Deleonardis
Well, even, like, look how he handled Covid, right? That's what blew up the UFC so much. Like every other sport shut down. UFC was the only one that kept going. Like, Dana White was the only commissioner of a sport that was able to keep that sport going all throughout the heat of COVID Not only keep it going, blow it the up. Like, Covid was actually a good thing for the UFC because it was the only thing on. And that guy, yeah, just behind the scenes, too. He doesn't quit, you know, and he'll call me and give me advice whenever something's going on that. That he'll see. And, yeah, he's like, I told you before, he is just the most loyal fucking guy you will ever meet. Like, it's so crazy. Like, for us, he'll just. I don't know. It's almost like blind loyalty, too. In the same way, it's just, like, he's always there for us, no matter what. And even sometimes, like, he just doesn't even need to be. You know, even if I'm, like, sick, he'll, like, call me and be like, yo, you good, bro? Like, you need an iv. Like, I'll Send. Like, he's just always there for us. So having a friend like him is. It's truly, like, insane. Yeah.
- [44:58]
Kyle Forgeard
What about the way that you've observed him sort of operate from a business perspective, the way that he runs the ufc, the way that he sort of deals with his own interaction with press, with exposure, with scrutiny, with stuff like that?
- [45:13]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, I think. I mean, he's obviously a savage, right? Like, even though I'm friends with him, like, I'll literally watch almost every Dana White, like, post UFC press conference because the guy's just a fucking savage. Like, if. If a media guy goes at him, he's going to fucking ream them out. You know what to get with Dana White. Right. He's himself. He speaks his mind. So with the UFC stuff, we don't. We kind of stay away from that. We let him handle the business of that. We don't even really talk UFC business with Dana ever, because he talks about that all the time when we're with him. If we're talking business, we're talking about Happy dad, we're talking about Howlerhead, we're talking about the podcast, or we're talking about maybe new ventures that we want to do together in the future. And we've never had, like, any type of partnership, like, with Dana or the ufc, besides, like, some clothing, but there's no, like, formal agreement. There's no formal agreement, like, even with Happy dad and Howlerhead. I know Dana had offered me, like, a little piece of Howlerhead back in the day, and, like, I kind of just told him in the most respectful way. Like, I'm really appreciative of this, but, like, I just want to do whatever you want me to do, and I don't want to take a percentage of your company. Like, I just want to remain friends and, like, let's just help each. And he was on the same page, and I think. I think you, like, really respected that. So with Happy dad, he's fucking helped us so much. Like, we'll go and do Happy Dad Howler Head tours together and stuff. So he's kind of like the uncle of Nelk, right? He's pretty much like an elk boy.
- [46:44]
Kyle Forgeard
Big scary uncle.
- [46:45]
Steve Deleonardis
A big scary uncle that you don't fuck around with. Yeah, no, that guy's. He's a legend. Everyone that knows him in real life knows, like, how great of a person he is.
- [46:55]
Kyle Forgeard
It's wild, you know, to think that that's able to come across. I haven't met Dana, but from conversations that I've seen him have from stories that I've heard behind the scenes, from the stories that I've heard in public. It is absurd to have somebody that's kind of at the head of an organization like that, who's the one that seems to have the most credibility. This sort of unwavering commitment to his word, like even to a fault a lot of the time, even when he fucks up and he just decides to be as upfront as possible.
- [47:33]
Steve Deleonardis
I don't know how he does it, but he does it. And that's why he's Dana White. He's just a fucking.
- [47:37]
Kyle Forgeard
Well, I think what people are really desperate for is authenticity.
- [47:40]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [47:41]
Kyle Forgeard
Like, they're really, really hungry for authenticity. One of the problems is that if you realize that authenticity is something that people like and resonate with, you can try to sort of speedrun it or growth hack it somehow, which is the exact opposite of authenticity. You can't inauthentically be authentic. You know, And I think people can just tell. They know when you're playing a game, when you're trying to manipulate them. And even if you don't know why, even if you can't say what it is, we've got this weird sixth sense that exists behind the back of our head somewhere. And you go, I don't know, man. There's something. There's something up here. I just don't get Trudeau. Perfect example of this with Trudeau. Like, tell me what it is about that guy that makes you not trust him. Maybe you can point to specific statements he's made and all the rest of.
- [48:30]
Steve Deleonardis
It, but you could just tell he's a fucking slime ball.
- [48:32]
Kyle Forgeard
Largely it's just the fact that he's got this slippery demeanor. You think, hey, I don't fucking trust you, guy.
- [48:40]
Steve Deleonardis
And he fooled everyone with the free weed legalization when he first ran.
- [48:45]
Kyle Forgeard
What's that?
- [48:46]
Steve Deleonardis
I think that's like, when he first ran, it's just. Cause he was gonna legalize weed. Like, that's why everyone loved him.
- [48:50]
Kyle Forgeard
Okay. That never came to fruition.
- [48:52]
Steve Deleonardis
No, it did. It's legal in Canada.
- [48:53]
Kyle Forgeard
Okay.
- [48:54]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah. So I guess he did one good.
- [48:55]
Kyle Forgeard
Delivered on a promise.
- [48:56]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [48:57]
Kyle Forgeard
But yeah, it's watching Dana operate, especially at that level, Especially with the additional amount of scrutiny and all the rest of the stuff that's happened is wild. It's very, like, I just.
- [49:08]
Steve Deleonardis
He just likes to win, too. One thing about him, I know what drives him, and it's proving people wrong. And that's kind of one thing I think me and him have in common is we both, like, just like, shutting people up, you know, like, whether it's fans in the comments or for him, it's the media, shutting people up is a good fucking feeling. You know what I mean? When everyone's saying something and they're all counting you out, it just drives you and you're like, I just want to shut these people up so fucking badly. I think that's one thing that. That drives both of us.
- [49:40]
Kyle Forgeard
And then you come back with the.
- [49:41]
Steve Deleonardis
W. You come back with the dub.
- [49:43]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, yeah. That's an interesting energy.
- [49:45]
Steve Deleonardis
You know what I mean by that or.
- [49:46]
Kyle Forgeard
No, I know exactly what you mean by it. Yeah, it's a. It's a really interesting energy to think.
- [49:51]
Steve Deleonardis
About how you need that sometimes. I feel. Well, dude, proving people wrong.
- [49:57]
Kyle Forgeard
I think it's a fucking potent fuel. Yeah, it's an incredibly potent fuel, and it's one that you can use very, very effectively. Especially, you know, I've heard Dana talk about this a couple of times, especially with regards to Trump, you know, that he is happy to burn everything down. I mean, he said there's a story that he talks about to do with Rogan, I think, where somebody didn't want Rogan to be a part of something moving forward, or he'd been a part. Maybe it was one of the scandals.
- [50:27]
Steve Deleonardis
Oh, yeah. It was probably when Joe said something. Fuck, yeah.
- [50:30]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah. The CNN thing or whatever it might be. And Dana was prepared to burn everything for one guy.
- [50:37]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, of course.
- [50:39]
Kyle Forgeard
And you think that's, in some ways, that's really not good business acumen. But what you're up. You're. You're working off of such unbelievable loyalty that the business gets ripped along for the ride. And what does it tell people? What's the subtext that it tells people about the business? This is a business that is going to do what it says, and you can have complete and utter faith in it.
- [51:04]
Steve Deleonardis
Yep.
- [51:04]
Kyle Forgeard
And especially, you know, the world of fight sports, We've seen it how many times over the last couple of months? Tyson and Jake Paul and the number of criticisms. Oh, it's a thrown fight, it's the three fight clause, et cetera, USYK Fury, rematch clauses. They're not actually fully throwing punches, all of this sort of stuff. And I think that it's really important to have, for something like the UFC where you can trust it.
- [51:31]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [51:32]
Kyle Forgeard
Even the fucking sniff that this wasn't legitimate. The entire organization. I'm sure there has to have been some fights that have been a little manipulated here or there because the UFC's.
- [51:42]
Steve Deleonardis
Done, but once they're in. Once they're in the cage, it's done. Yeah, I mean, it's the ufc, but.
- [51:47]
Kyle Forgeard
You'Ve got to have the guy.
- [51:50]
Steve Deleonardis
They obviously help put people in the cage that they want to. I mean, that's obvious. But, like, once they're in the cage, it's up to you. You know, they're not fighting for you when you're in the cage.
- [51:59]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, yeah. Can we talk about the Bob situation? Yeah, that full arc thing. So give us the 30,000 foot view of Bob Menery.
- [52:09]
Steve Deleonardis
I still don't really understand it. I mean, we still, like, chirp each other about it. I don't know what he was looking for. I mean, if you ask Drew, our guy, like, he said that we owed him money, and we just didn't.
- [52:23]
Kyle Forgeard
So he's a part of the pod. He started the pod, then he was a part of the pod.
- [52:26]
Steve Deleonardis
Bob was doing his thing, Right? He was Bob's. And by. Me and Bob are great friends now, and, like, I hope we will remain great friends, hopefully. He's a great guy. He's talented, he's funny. So I wanted to start a podcast, and I was always thinking of who to start it with, and I was like, yo, I think this Bob guy's really funny. Right? So we gave him a great fucking deal. I think it was like 7. 7,500 or $10,000 an episode. 30% of the ads. And by the way, he has no YouTube channel. He's launched, like, four unsuccessful pods at this point, like four different ones. So it's like, bob, just show up, make some good money. Let. Let me keep this consistent. Let me bring the structure to this. So we're doing good. And then. Yeah, I think. I don't know if he had bad people in his ear that were kind of telling him stuff or whatever it was. But, yeah, I don't know. I think he just thought for some reason we were screwing him and. Or he was missing out on money that he just wasn't missing out on, and he just freaked out. I don't know. I don't know if he was at.
- [53:27]
Kyle Forgeard
A bad place and everything went nuclear.
- [53:29]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, I don't know if he was at a bad place in his life or something as well, too. But, yeah, we weren't cool for a while, and that was like, the first time I ever really went through some. Like, I stayed quiet for a while, which I always will. I stay quiet until someone really fucking pushes me to the edge, you know, because I don't wanna. I never got big by, like, attacking people online or, like, airing out personal shit. So that's just not. Even though I could get views doing it, you know, that's just not me. So I kind of just had to sit back and wait till Bob kind of forced me to a point where I had to, like, just kind of own his ass a little bit, and people kind of saw right through it, and we just came with the receipts and that was it. And, yeah, we weren't. Then he, like, sued us.
- [54:17]
Kyle Forgeard
And.
- [54:17]
Steve Deleonardis
And it was a whole thing.
- [54:18]
Kyle Forgeard
We.
- [54:19]
Steve Deleonardis
We did, like, a thing that we, like, joke about now, too. We had to do a mediation, which is, like. That was, like, part of the clause. Like, if there's ever a different disagreement, you guys have to go into mediation. So we had to get onto his.
- [54:30]
Kyle Forgeard
Like, to his divorce counseling.
- [54:32]
Steve Deleonardis
Divorce counseling. So we had to get on, like, our side and his side with this lady Judge Nagel, who we, like, joke about now. And, like, he got on and his side was just. They were, like, internally arguing, like, in front of, like, all of us. It was just, like. It was a complete mess. And the judge told us. She came into our room and told us, like, listen, I'm not going to lead a horse to water, but they have absolutely no case against you guys whatsoever. Like, the judge told us that. I don't even know if she was supposed to, but that's what she told us. So to me, the whole thing was just hilarious. But we both wasted legal money for no reason. So we eventually came to just agreement to drop it. And I was like, bob, if you want to come on the pod whenever you. Whenever you want, like, come promote whatever you want. You can bring ads on the podcast if you want, like, just like any other guest, you know, like, if Wiz Khalifa comes on and he wants to talk about his weed, go ahead. But he's been on the pod, and he hasn't brought one single ad, so he's just.
- [55:31]
Kyle Forgeard
But he's back on the pod now.
- [55:32]
Steve Deleonardis
He's back on, like, in and out. Yeah. I mean, we're cool. It was kind of just. I don't know. We'll see what happens. But he's not back on, like, full time. He's just kind of in and out. But, yeah, it was a very. It was an interesting situation.
- [55:47]
Kyle Forgeard
One of the things that we were talking about in the gym earlier on is keeping your private life private.
- [55:53]
Steve Deleonardis
Mm.
- [55:54]
Kyle Forgeard
And the. You can run a business and have people talk about the business, but having people talk about how you run your business having people talk about how you run your podcast. I think not good. Like people are talking about the wrong things.
- [56:11]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [56:12]
Kyle Forgeard
So was that degree of operational exposure was that. That's for what when you and Bob are having this sort of fallout and then there's all of this kind of exposure of internal backbiting type stuff.
- [56:26]
Steve Deleonardis
I don't enjoy that shit. Like, I know everyone on the Internet, Internet now. It's all about drama.
- [56:30]
Kyle Forgeard
Correct.
- [56:31]
Steve Deleonardis
And like, I mean, we could start drama with people too, or like whoever it is, but that's just not how we got big, you know, like, we've never started drama with people. It's always just been about making funny shit. So for me, any opportunity we have to, like, I don't know, I just don't look to that to get cloud or views. That's just not me.
- [56:51]
Kyle Forgeard
It's my least. It's my least favorite kind of.
- [56:54]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, like that was. That was when I was just pushed to the edge, you know. So like I'm all. I'm just gonna stay quiet until it's to the point where I have to defend myself. Like, I don't want to, but that's kind of the way that I work.
- [57:09]
Kyle Forgeard
I just. I don't know. There is. We're really kind of in the. The era of criticism.
- [57:16]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, drama. Drama's huge on the Internet. All people want to see is people fight and fucking just go at each other.
- [57:23]
Kyle Forgeard
They said this thing, oh my God, this singer with that girl and she's released these texts and so on and so forth.
- [57:28]
Steve Deleonardis
Ye.
- [57:29]
Kyle Forgeard
I don't know, man. Like, that's my.
- [57:31]
Steve Deleonardis
Just like the streamers, the whole streamers is like. It's a lot about beef and stuff like that.
- [57:35]
Kyle Forgeard
It's all about beef. It's just that energy.
- [57:37]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah. The clip era. I feel like the clipping era that we're in kind of changed that. Right. It's so quick, it's so fast.
- [57:43]
Kyle Forgeard
Like, well, the most. The biggest thing that you can get on YouTube is timeliness. So we realized this last year and known that it was a big deal for a while that you're sort of basically being a newsish channel. But as mainstream news is declining, people are looking to YouTube for their news so much more. And search volume is such an important driver. So Trump gets shot and then 36 hours later, I bring Tim Kennedy on, whatever it is. 72 hours later, I bring Mike Baker on. So I've got one Green Beret, one ex CIA guy who's still involved in intelligence stuff. And it was nice or whatever that people are interested and that I have people that have got genuine expertise and we can talk about this sort of stuff. But it was almost in some ways a little bit disheartening how much those episodes blow up because you think, oh, there's no reason. The episodes were great, but they didn't need to be great. It was just something that was timely. And what's the most timely thing that you can do? Be start drama and be involved in the drama and just keep talking about it back and forth. And if you look back, I guess.
- [58:49]
Steve Deleonardis
That'S just human nature, right?
- [58:51]
Kyle Forgeard
100%. It's the most tabloid, it's the most important.
- [58:54]
Steve Deleonardis
I don't know why we're like that, but we just love to see negative shit about.
- [58:57]
Kyle Forgeard
Well, there's some really interesting potential evidence about why the human brain grew to be as big as it did, which is that it wasn't so we could use tools correctly or so that we could remember the location of plants. But because when you have a 150 person tribe broken down into 30 person pods or whatever. For me to be able to remember Kyle and Kyle's relationship with Dean and the fact that Kyle and Dean used to be friends but they're not anymore and John has actually come in and John is now Kyle's best friend. So Dean's kind of feeling a bit that when you start to scale that up is really, really computationally difficult, which is why you need a lot of ability. But it also means that that is so important and salient to you. Like if you. I don't think humans are particularly good at working out. This is some dramatic social information that I need to pay attention to versus some dramatic social information that has absolutely nothing to do with me. It's just drama. Therefore I must be able to pay attention. And therefore it's going to pull me in, it's going to suck me in. And if you were to look back, I think across your week's watch time history, your pie chart of that the. I would doubt if anybody looks at the however many percent, 30%, 50% more that they look at drama farming stuff and go, time well spent. Like, who's saying that? No one's saying that. No one looks at it and goes, really glad that I watched that Brianna chicken fry takedown summary video again for the third time that I've seen from two other different channels.
- [60:30]
Steve Deleonardis
Even that shit. Yeah, that shit got crazy. Bees. Which is. I watched it.
- [60:35]
Kyle Forgeard
Of course, we all watched it. You can't not watch it. It's like the black hole of content. It just sucks you out.
- [60:41]
Steve Deleonardis
It's just. Yeah, it's just human nature, I guess. I don't know why we like to see negative shit about each other.
- [60:49]
Kyle Forgeard
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- [62:14]
Steve Deleonardis
I mean, you know, like, Nelk's not the same without Steve. Like, there's no.
- [62:20]
Kyle Forgeard
And you can't show him on YouTube.
- [62:21]
Steve Deleonardis
There's no question about it. I mean, Steve will do. It was like, he was, like, the biggest one in Nelk. I mean, like, he was, like. He was more. He was bigger than me, like, at the time, too. Like. So, yeah, it's a very weird situation. I don't quite understand it. I mean, I guess he was banned for, like, putting a gambling link in his URL. But I don't know. I think. I think that was just an excuse. There's something deeper going on, I think. I mean, he was repping Trump pretty hard at the time, and that was a different time back then, too. And then Steve is just like a lot of people. I don't know if people know, but he is one of the most, like, naturally, like, funny guys in like his own way. Like, he has like, very dark humor. And like, I, I personally love his dark humor too. Like, I think it's hilarious. But I guess there's just certain shit that you just can't say on YouTube, you know what I'm saying? So I think YouTube was seeing like some of his dark humor shit. And they're like, this is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. And one thing I've learned from YouTube too, is they don't. YouTube doesn't like negative press about YouTubers, about YouTubers YouTube, because that's gonna fuck their. Right, Right. Like their advertisers don't like that press too. So I know we learned that during COVID During COVID we were like kind of traveling, still making videos, and we showed up to a college to film something and we didn't even post any things ourselves. Like, we just like went to the college and we were filming, but other people were taking Snapchats of us. And through that it gained a huge crowd. So it looked the. All the articles were YouTubers host mass gathering. YouTubers this, YouTubers that. And we got like a manual email from YouTube which you never get. You always know when it's like automated, right? And this said like, hey, Nelk boys. Which is like, nelk boys is not even on our channel at YouTube at all. It's like, nelk. So. And it was a custom email that said, you guys need to watch your off. Off platform responsibility. Which basically means, like, we're giving you guys one last warning before we delete you. Or they're like. Or your channel's deleted. So at that time, this was. And we're like, Jesus, like, we're walking on eggshells. So I think since I've had that experience, it's kind of the. At the end of the day, they're just trying to make money in that YouTube office, right? So if they're looking at Steve and they're saying this guy's making a bunch.
- [64:50]
Kyle Forgeard
Of crazy jazz, flying close to the sun.
- [64:54]
Steve Deleonardis
Flying and probably flying in the sun.
- [64:56]
Kyle Forgeard
He flies in the fucking sun. Straight through it. Yeah.
- [64:58]
Steve Deleonardis
Like, his videos were fucking hilarious. Like, and the jokes that he makes are fucking hilarious. So he was flying in the sun for sure. Probably right in the fucking center. And I think, I think they just used the gambling thing as an excuse, to be honest. And then I think Steve knows probably he probably could have handled after the strategy of after getting deleted.
- [65:21]
Kyle Forgeard
He probably could have handled it bit more diplomatic.
- [65:23]
Steve Deleonardis
A bit more diplomatic and strategic. But still, I think I Mean for them to take his channel down is just like, all of them is fucking crazy. And then not only that, to tell us that we can't even have him in our videos. So the editors or our channel will be deleted.
- [65:42]
Kyle Forgeard
The editors on the back end must permanently have this Steve filter.
- [65:46]
Steve Deleonardis
Well, then now it's created this weird thing where it's like Steve also when I met. When it created this weird thing where Steve's around and he obviously wants, you know, he wants Nelk to be successful too, and he wants Nelk to keep going. He's not the guy that's like, yo, put me in the shit. Put me in the shit. That's not him. Right. Our ultimate goal was Steve. When I first met him, I feel like, was to just kind of like help him and make him financially successful. And our main goal was to start this Happy dad. So that's Steve. Steve. And mine's ultimate goal is to build Happy dad up into a billion dollar company. So Steve wants, obviously Nelk to be successful. He wants us to keep pushing Happy Dad. But yeah, I really think that they at least need to start with letting him be in Nelk videos or something else. And it's weird because he'll go on other people's channels and, like, they won't pick on. They won't pick on those channels. But for some reason, like, why. Why is it only us that you.
- [66:48]
Kyle Forgeard
Were told specifically that he can't be in videos?
- [66:50]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, we were told very specifically. That's on the, like on the floor.
- [66:55]
Kyle Forgeard
It's like. I know. It's like somebody being unpersoned.
- [66:58]
Steve Deleonardis
It's fucked.
- [66:59]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah.
- [66:59]
Steve Deleonardis
And I think it's.
- [67:00]
Kyle Forgeard
You can even bring Tate on.
- [67:01]
Steve Deleonardis
You know, Tate gets deleted on our shit too.
- [67:04]
Kyle Forgeard
Okay.
- [67:05]
Steve Deleonardis
Which is weird.
- [67:06]
Kyle Forgeard
Maybe you can't.
- [67:06]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah. Full send podcast. Tate got deleted. But I know what you mean. Yeah.
- [67:11]
Kyle Forgeard
It's just your Trump one got taken down as well, right?
- [67:13]
Steve Deleonardis
The first one. Yeah. But we need to. I think we need, in closing that we need to, like, they should let his channel come back, I think eventually. It's been long enough. And then to start, they should let him be in like. Or they, like, they don't let him be in Bradley Martin's content. Like, it's fucked. Like, they gotta let him be on YouTube now. Like, the culture's shifting now too.
- [67:32]
Kyle Forgeard
Well, let's talk about. It's time to bring Steve back on Zuckerberg. Chad transformation.
- [67:38]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [67:41]
Kyle Forgeard
I'm conflicted about this Zuck thing because part of me thinks moving in the right direction. Nice to see a return to freedom of speech, et cetera. But another part of me thinks this is just blowing with the wind. You were cucked when the cucks were in office and you're bigoted now. The bigots are in office, like, judgmentally, only half joking. And I don't know, I get it. I get that people like the idea of it moving in the direction that they want, but it does seem like kind of a pretty thinly veiled, now that the free speech people are in power, will just do whatever they think is cool. Does no one see that? Like, doesn't it?
- [68:27]
Steve Deleonardis
I see it. I see it. And I kind of saw it coming too. And, like, I think that's what people don't get too, is like, at the end of the day, these are all companies that just want to make money. Like, whether it's YouTube or Facebook meta. Right? Like, I don't. I feel like it's not really a personal vendetta they have against these people. It's just like they're sitting in a boardroom and they're trying to figure out how to make money, right? So they're going to follow. They're going to follow the money. So now, like, obviously Zuck sees what's happening with X. He's smart, too. And at the end of the day, it's a W for everyone. Like, we. What was about to happen if Trump didn't win was fucking scary.
- [69:05]
Kyle Forgeard
Like, further down that road, we were.
- [69:07]
Steve Deleonardis
About to lose, like, free speech. Like, I think we would have lost it completely. I mean, it's hard to imagine, but thank God, like, the. He won and the way that he won reflected where culturally we're at. But yeah, I think Zuck, obviously, he probably sick of just getting chirped all the time, too, at the same time, too, right? Like, Elon Musk gets to be the man and gets all this praise. And like, everyone. Everyone's always ripping on Zuck. And Zuck's probably just like, fuck, I want to be the man too, like Elon. But I think it was very smart. I mean, there's no better person, again, to bring on than Dana. I think that was. That's so smart because Dana is always going to be for the people. He loves social media, too. Like, he gets a kick out of just, like, seeing, like, he's always showing us numbers and stuff, too. Like, we're sending, like, our biggest reels that do well and shit. So he understands social media. And then, yeah, he's. He's for the people. He's always Going to be for. For free speech. Like ufcs for free speech. So, yeah, I think Zuck just. He had no choice. Right.
- [70:09]
Kyle Forgeard
That transformation is crazy of his, visually, ideologically, in terms of the way that he presents.
- [70:16]
Steve Deleonardis
Suck. Yeah, yeah.
- [70:17]
Kyle Forgeard
Crazy.
- [70:18]
Steve Deleonardis
I know. I think it was just that. I think he just wanted to like. I think he just wants to be kind of cool, right?
- [70:23]
Kyle Forgeard
Boys club.
- [70:24]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, he wants to join the boys club. We'll see. We'll let him in, right?
- [70:27]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah. Well, I tell you what's weird when you're thinking about the ecosystem of social media, that you don't have an equivalent front and center person on YouTube, you know, you don't have. I mean, is it still that Susanna lady?
- [70:39]
Steve Deleonardis
Maybe Steve will do it soon.
- [70:40]
Kyle Forgeard
Wow. I mean, that would be an absolute U turn.
- [70:43]
Steve Deleonardis
But yeah, look, I. Yeah, she's gone.
- [70:46]
Kyle Forgeard
I like. I like the fact that. I like the fact that Facebook Twitch.
- [70:51]
Steve Deleonardis
Has someone now too. Right?
- [70:52]
Kyle Forgeard
I think. Yes.
- [70:53]
Steve Deleonardis
That older guy that's like. I think he's like the CEO something, maybe.
- [70:58]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah.
- [70:59]
Steve Deleonardis
YouTube. That's interesting.
- [71:00]
Kyle Forgeard
I like the fact that Facebook. And that obviously means downstream from that WhatsApp and Instagram. Instagram's a big. I'm still shadowbanned. I've been shadowbanned since the week before the election on Instagram for sharing. You remember Kamala Harris had the phone up and then showed it and it was her camera. Yeah, I got. I'm still. Since then, whatever it is down regulated in feed. You know, all of the little yellow orange circles on the back end. Got tons of orange circles that I can't get rid of because it's a story, so I can't delete the thing. And it's because of in. It's because of the fact checkers. Ah. So the exact thing that they just brought up is the reason that I've been. I'm thinking that I am glad about. And overall it is a good thing, but I'm just a little, I don't know, skeptical about the purity of the motivations for.
- [71:47]
Steve Deleonardis
Why there's no purity. There's no purity. They're following the money. They have no choice. I mean, the election was like a reflection of where society's at. They have to be idiots not to see, like, holy shit, we got to adjust. But at the end of the day, it's a W for society.
- [72:06]
Kyle Forgeard
The two topics that they highlighted as well were gender and immigration. Probably the two most. At least from a campaign perspective, the two most aligned talking points when it came to what the candidates were driving home from ads. Right there was that ad that the Trump team, Kamala is for. They them, Trump is for you, one of the most successful political ads in the recent history. I think a third of their budget was spent on that one ad. Some absurd amount of the budget. And then immigration was the flag that was planted in the ground by the Republican side, as this is the thing that we're pushing back against, I think. Interesting that those are the two flashpoints that you're enabling now on Meta.
- [72:55]
Steve Deleonardis
What do you mean they're enabling it?
- [72:57]
Kyle Forgeard
Well, when they talked about these are the sort of topics, there were two topics that they specifically called out as being ones that would be discussion would not be censored around as much. And it was gender and immigration. They also happened to be the two biggest talking points when it came to the campaign trail.
- [73:16]
Steve Deleonardis
So that's a new thing they're doing. They just said this.
- [73:18]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, it was part of the big announcement. A couple of the guys, some representative went on Fox and was talking about it. But I think it's actually written in.
- [73:26]
Steve Deleonardis
I mean, yeah, if you're Zuck, you gotta be like, he's obviously not an idiot, but you gotta be a complete tool to not see where he has no choice. It's pretty obvious, right? I mean, and they're gonna have to make all those adjustments. I mean, yeah. I don't know why people don't see it. People are just gonna follow the money always.
- [73:42]
Kyle Forgeard
Right. I'm interested in what keeps driving you. You've mentioned proving people wrong is a part of it, but that only takes you so far. Doing something for a decade, however many hundreds of uploads, thousands of uploads, including all of the shorts and all of the work and sourcing and creating, spinning something up internally. I don't think people realize just how much work that is. What is it that keeps you motivated and keeps driving you forward after doing this for so long?
- [74:15]
Steve Deleonardis
I mean, I really fucking enjoy what we do, Honestly, I really do. And I'll go through waves of, maybe there's a bad video or there's a bad moment on social media, but for the most part, like, I really fucking love this shit. Like, I started doing this for fun, just making videos, uploading them, not making any money. And I was making, like, all types of videos. Like serious. I wanted to be a director when I was younger, so I was making, like, short films that were serious. I was making skits and then we were doing pranks. I just loved creating, like thinking of something, filming it. I would edit it myself. Post it and then you get that it's like entertaining. You know, you get that reaction back from people saying they loved it. It's like a good feeling. So I don't think I've lost that whatsoever. You know, even our, like our latest Nelk video, I was telling you, like the tribe video we did, it was just fun. Like the whole process, from thinking of the idea to planning it, like getting on the call with Forest and talking about doing it to traveling there to filming it and then when we get home, sitting with the editors editing it and you know, we're choosing the music, we're choosing the font, we're choosing just the storyline and then posting it and getting all that great feedback, watching the numbers go crazy. The entire process is fun. And I don't, I mean, I don't know what else I would be. I would be doing. I don't want to go back and work at the golf course. That's one thing. I do really love it. And then, yeah, I mean, obviously want to be like financially free, I think. You know, I don't. I don't know if we can do Nelk forever. Maybe we can. Like, maybe it's like we have kids and we're still doing like dad's trips or some shit and we're bringing the babies and stuff.
- [76:04]
Kyle Forgeard
Happy dad in one hand, child in another.
- [76:06]
Steve Deleonardis
Exactly. There you go. There we go. Oh, yeah, we're gonna definitely keep going. But yeah, I mean, it would be with Happy Dad. Our ultimate goal is to build it into a billion dollar business. And yeah, so there's two sides to it. There's just the content. And then Happy dad is our main.
- [76:20]
Kyle Forgeard
What are you more passionate about at the moment?
- [76:26]
Steve Deleonardis
I think I'm passionate about both equally. I love. I think that's one thing that like my partner, like John tells me too is like I can just switch from like a creative side to like a business side, like, like that, like with a light switch, you know, So I love like being completely creative and like making a video. And then I also love getting strategic and like helping build a business. So it's almost like I have two hats that I get to wear and I'm constantly switching them, which I think with my mind a little bit too. And then sometimes I gotta babysit all these fuckers too. Like, I don't know if you know, steiny all, like all these guys are fucked. I'm fucked too. But so there's a few different hats that I have to wear.
- [77:09]
Kyle Forgeard
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- [78:44]
Steve Deleonardis
It never used to be like that too much, but now I find myself doing that more than ever.
- [78:49]
Kyle Forgeard
But you're the boss.
- [78:50]
Steve Deleonardis
I know, but I never, like, it gets fucking annoying sometimes too.
- [78:54]
Kyle Forgeard
To be the buzzkill. Yeah, of course.
- [78:56]
Steve Deleonardis
Like, it's like, it's like, it's also like, just don't make me be a buzzkill. Like, I don't want to fucking have to like, rip you. But the reason I don't want to.
- [79:03]
Kyle Forgeard
Have the reason stepping in to do it is because you haven't done the thing that I asked you to do.
- [79:06]
Steve Deleonardis
But like, some people just don't learn unless you fucking rip them a new asshole. So it's like it gets. But it does, it does frustrate me and it gets annoying. So now some things I just kind of let Go. I'm. I'm kind of only focused on what affects Nelk. Like, I can't. I've learned I also can't help everybody. I can tell you something once, I could tell you something twice. If you're gonna keep doing it, that's gonna be up to you. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's not enough time in my day to babysit everyone's personal lives. I thought. I get, like, I don't know, I care about people that are close to me a lot too, so I try to help people as much as I can. But yeah, it gets. There's only so much time in a day. At the end of the day, people are going to do what they kind of want to do.
- [79:51]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, there's a few. I think Elon's probably a pretty good example of this. But I read sci fi and novels and stuff like that, and in those books, a lot of the time, the person that's the figurehead, that's usually the protagonist in the book or whatever, you get to observe inside of their own mind the price that they need to pay in order to be a leader. The fact that they need to do things or say things or make sacrifices. Ernest Shackleton, the guy who attempted an Antarctic crossing in the sort of 1910s, he had so many self doubts that he wrote in his diary. He had so much concern and didn't know if people were going to survive, didn't know if they were going to be able to make it through multiple Antarctic winters. And you sort of see him writing these things down in his diary and then stepping out there to put on this brave face that inspires everybody around him. And it's kind of interesting, the unique cost that a leader has to pay in order to keep driving something forward. And there are sort of certain very unique challenges that only, maybe even within an organization, maybe only two people or one person or a couple of, you know, very, very small group of people actually have to deal with. And everybody else kind of gets to come along for the ride. Everybody else gets to be coached along. And main character energy and sort of assuming that you're the most important person in the story is kind of how everybody sees their life, right? Everybody sees their world as the main character, but if you actually look at anybody else's world, at best you're a side character. At best, you're like some ancillary dude that came in partway through. But if you really want to be that main character, if you like the idea of being the leader, if you like the idea of being a figurehead, the person that's driving this thing forward. There will be prices that you need to pay. Very, very particular, unique, lonely prices that you can put a brave face on it or you can grin about it as much as you want, but ultimately, there is a lot of shit to eat.
- [81:51]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah.
- [81:51]
Kyle Forgeard
And you are going to have to eat it.
- [81:53]
Steve Deleonardis
100. It comes with the territory. I would never complain about it. It just. Yeah, I've. That's something kind of. That I've had to deal with more recently as our business has grown as. Like you said, yeah, the stakes are higher now. There's more responsibility. So back then when we're just fudgeing around and we're, you know, now it's. The stakes are higher. So there's a lot more on the line. There's a lot more on the line.
- [82:16]
Kyle Forgeard
What's the. What's the toughest part of your job?
- [82:22]
Steve Deleonardis
I don't want to sound like a bitch or, like, complaining because, like, they're like, what I. I'm so grateful for, like, my life and my job and stuff, but, I mean, if there's one thing that just burns me out, maybe it's just traveling, like, a lot, all the time. The lack of a. The lack of a routine and, like, structure that. That can burn me out. Like, if we're traveling all the time, back when we were probably, like, drinking a lot and partying, that would. That was starting to burn me out a lot. Starting to lose it a little bit, maybe. But how so not, like, lose it, but just. I mean, as you get older. Bro, too. We were talking about it, too. Like, bro, I obviously just can't. I can't drink. Like, I can't drink like I used to. Like, Obviously, when I'm 21, I didn't even know what a hangover was. I'm 30 now, so I get hung like a. It feels like I got hit by a bus, you know? So I think it's just. It's that too. So when we're part. If we're, like, traveling and drinking a lot, too, that can burn me out. I love. I mean, I love having a routine, too. Like when I'm in Miami and I'm just on my shit, like, just exactly what we did this morning dialed working out. That feels really, really good to me now. The older I get, I think the simple things just become more and more important and just taking care of yourself, keeping your mind right. So if there's one thing, it's just that it's just the traveling sometimes burns you out.
- [83:47]
Kyle Forgeard
Do you lose motivation or do you have low points? It seems like you have this sort of quite upbeat mentality a lot of the time. Not only that, that's your disposition, but also that you need to be that for everybody else. They're gonna look to you while Kyle's got to bring the vibe to this thing.
- [84:03]
Steve Deleonardis
But I think, I think I definitely lose. I think I lose motivation sometimes. I mean, I think everyone goes through points where, yeah, maybe you just get low or you kind of question like, oh, do I want to do this? Like, what's the point of this anymore? You know, I've gone through phases like that where it's just like, yeah, you're just like, why do I need to do this? You know, what if? But I think those are just like little funks that everybody has and you kind of just gotta break out of them and you gotta kinda like look at stuff from like an outside perspective too. Yeah. I think I'm so grateful to have this life and like everything I've built. So if you think about other people's lives or what they have or what their problems are compared to yours, I find that's like a great thing I do sometimes. Just whenever you're complaining about something, like really take a look at what you're complaining about compared to other people's problems. So anytime I find myself in a funk, I'll kind of just think of that and be like, yo, this is my problem compared to like someone else's problem. Like, look around me, look what I've got. Not even material wise. Like, I have fucking a great family, I have fucking great friends. I have a great life. Like some people don't have that. So all the stuff you kind of take for granted sometimes, not everyone has.
- [85:27]
Kyle Forgeard
How much do you rely on the sort of group around you?
- [85:30]
Steve Deleonardis
Do you think you could do this everything?
- [85:31]
Kyle Forgeard
You couldn't do this on your own?
- [85:33]
Steve Deleonardis
Nah. The group we have right now is like fucking really, really solid. Like, obviously I have Gabe, who's like my assistant.
- [85:41]
Kyle Forgeard
Like that guy Lifesaver.
- [85:42]
Steve Deleonardis
He's the best. Like, we've become best friends too. And he's like, there's no one better than him in anything. Yeah, I mean, osgod, who edits all our videos, Sean Haney, Brett Judd. There's just like a whole crew of like our whole team is just like so good. And I think that's what's. As we get bigger and bigger, that's what's really important is like having this team it's never a one man army for sure. And yeah, now like the crew we have, it's like we're all great friends, we hang out, like we work out, we party. So I was telling you the team's key.
- [86:22]
Kyle Forgeard
I've been spending more time around bands and I think a lot of what is happening in new media is reinventing what already happened in old media. So there's ad breaks, right? And sometimes there's little transition sounds between ads and there's regular guests that come up and sometimes there's segments. And so it's like all of this existed in radio, all of this existed in tv. But when I was thinking about how people that travel a lot, what is an existing artistic endeavor or project that has some degree of travel in it, some degree of sort of difficult sleep and wake schedule, maybe there's some partying, there's an obligation for performance. All of this stuff like, well, comedians and bands are two good examples of this. So I've been looking quite closely at how bands sort of maintain their motivation. And one of the fascinating things around that is you can have somebody who is an amazing musician who would perform phenomenally on stage that the audience might love, but they're a shit hang and, or vice versa. There's someone that's an amazing hang that's great for the morale behind the scenes, but can't deliver what they need to do when it comes to this. And basically my point being that even with comedians, a lot of them will have some sort of tour manager or a warm up act that goes with them. And yeah, sure, the TM's got a job to do, checking into the hotel, dealing with delays, et cetera. The warmup act's got a job to do. They need to make sure that the crowd is nice and ready for you to come on stage and they'll give you a hand. But what are they really there for? They're there for morale. They're there to keep your vibe good. And yeah, I think that's something that I being the solopreneur type degen thing, working away in his room in solitude for a long time, I think that's a lesson that I kind of overlooked, that I've done this on my own for, you know, seven years now. I don't need anyone, fuck it, I'll just keep doing this. And you go, yeah, you're gonna get yourself to the stage where you need to lean on other people because you're just gonna, your tank's gonna be empty. And yeah, that's something Especially observing you guys and seeing how important that group dynamic is. And everybody's here. It's your house. Yeah, right. It's our house. But everybody's in here. Everybody's there for the hang. Something.
- [88:42]
Steve Deleonardis
It's unorthodox.
- [88:43]
Kyle Forgeard
Something blows up, you know, someone's coming for you, someone's criticizing you, they're there to help support you. Something goes well, they're there to celebrate it with you. And we glorify the sort of Sigma male lone Ranger. I'm going to do it on my own thing. I don't think that that's the best way to do it to enjoy the good times. And I don't think it's the best way to do it to weather the bad times either.
- [89:07]
Steve Deleonardis
I agree. Yeah, no, we, the crew we have right now is like, we're all just, we're all just friends. So it's like, yeah, we celebrate the good times, we battle through the bad times. And yeah, there's a lot of, like, it's like a friend group. So it's like you're working and you're also having fun. So some things aren't done the most professionally. But I think that's. That's always been the magic of Nelk and like what we've created. Like, you never even sometimes maybe we got a little bit too corporate and stuff too. Like that never. That never works. I don't think, like, for content, like, we got an office in OC for a bit and not. Not that it like killed our content for. For anything. It was just like waste of money for, for, for Nelk. Happy dad completely took over that office because they needed the space anyway. But for us, it's way better for me, like now the editing office you saw is like right over there. I don't want to fucking drive to the office every day. Like, this is the way that we've always done it. It's like I wake up, I can just go walk over there after the fucking cold tub and be like, what's good? How's the video looking, boys? And I can just go sit with them for 10 minutes and we just like, boom. We just did like two hours worth of work. Like, as I was coming back to like, shower.
- [90:15]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, it's funny, the, the need for slack and calls and check ins and updates and where are we at? Project management.
- [90:22]
Steve Deleonardis
I think that that works in a business, obviously. Like these businesses, obviously you need that. But I think in a creative business and obviously filming or a YouTube crew, any of that typical shit, I find it doesn't work. You got to do it your way. You got to keep it fun. You got to keep it. You got to keep good energy.
- [90:41]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah.
- [90:41]
Steve Deleonardis
You know, the second people don't want to be there, it's. It's not going to be good.
- [90:46]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, it's. It's a really interesting challenge and it's part of the thing that people don't see where behind the scenes, the energy that you bring to something. This is something that Rogan's got so right. It's so seamless going and working. Like he has just removed all of the friction. There is zero friction involved in his entire process. And the team that he's got around him and the guys that he likes hanging with are just fire. Yeah. You know, he's got his little squad and you turn up at the studio and he doesn't need to think at all about anything that's going on. He gets to turn up and do his thing and then he goes away and nothing saps that energy from him. And I think that, yeah, observing you guys, I've learned a lot from sort of seeing how you've held that energy together. And I think it's really impressive. And obviously as well, the proof's in the pudding. You've kept going for 10 years, so it's been a while. Evidently works.
- [91:42]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, it's been a long ass journey for sure.
- [91:45]
Kyle Forgeard
What would you like to do next? Like, what's from a content perspective, from a business perspective?
- [91:50]
Steve Deleonardis
I want to. This year. I'm pretty fucking motivated right now.
- [91:55]
Kyle Forgeard
Me too.
- [91:55]
Steve Deleonardis
I think. Yeah. I mean, I think last year I got a little bit comfortable, maybe for different. Couple different reasons. But I think this year, even just after the reaction of our last video, like the Nelk channel is so fucking unique. What we have like, like even the videos at like 5 mil or something, like, that's a lot of fucking views for a YouTube video. Not. Not a lot of people are getting views like that. In our genre, obviously, Mr. Beast gets like crazy numbers, but for our, like, genre, like, that's just. That's awesome to me, so. And I had such a great time doing that. So a lot of people have been asking for us to like, upload more, which I want to.
- [92:37]
Kyle Forgeard
Slightly tough if you go into an uncontacted tribe.
- [92:39]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah. But I want to, I want to get back into, like, trying to do a lot more Nelk videos for sure. And then keeping the podcast going too. We next week we're going to ufcla, so we're gonna do like a pod with all Those, with all those guys and we got a couple good guests in the works and then we got the inauguration. So we'll probably, we'll have a lot of.
- [92:58]
Kyle Forgeard
Are you able to film at the inauguration?
- [93:00]
Steve Deleonardis
We're trying to, we want to try to make an inauguration video for Nelk, but we'll see.
- [93:06]
Kyle Forgeard
It might be who gets to go with you because you must have a limited number of tickets. You can't just bring everything.
- [93:10]
Steve Deleonardis
It'll be, it'll be me and Styny and then it'll be Osgod, our filmer. And then probably Gabe. Gabe will be in charge of suits.
- [93:19]
Kyle Forgeard
He's in charge of suits. He's dressing.
- [93:21]
Steve Deleonardis
He wants to be in charge of suits though.
- [93:22]
Kyle Forgeard
Gabe, are you in charge of suits?
- [93:24]
Steve Deleonardis
It's not like a job we throw on him.
- [93:25]
Kyle Forgeard
Okay, yeah, well, we'll see.
- [93:27]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, that'll be cool. But yeah, no, this year we just want to, we just want to kill it with content shorts. Nelk, fullsenpod.
- [93:34]
Kyle Forgeard
How do you come to think about what makes a good video or what makes a good piece of content?
- [93:41]
Steve Deleonardis
The first thing we'll think of is, I guess you think of it at the same time, but what's gonna make a good video, obviously. But then you have to think of a good title and thumbnail. I mean, you know how it works. But that's, that's the main thing. So if you think of a good idea, then the next thing you think of is, okay, well, what's the title and thumbnail? And then if we can't think of that, you don't really have a full concept. You know what makes it is the title and thumbnail and then actually good quality content delivering on it. Yeah, but title and thumbnail is everything on YouTube, right? I mean that's the very first thing you should kind of be thinking about. And yeah, just what's going to be digestible to like a large audience? Our whole team likes getting views too. Like, I think that's what we want to make a video. And what's going to get the most fucking hype? What's going to get the most fucking views? Like that's what really motivates like me, Salim Steiny, everybody on our team. What's just going to like make noise.
- [94:42]
Kyle Forgeard
So what's the watch time on a 40 minute vlog for you guys?
- [94:47]
Steve Deleonardis
Do you know, I don't even, I'm not a fucking huge YouTube analytics guy. Honestly, I let like our guy Judd's like super into that. Like, he'll be like, bro, this short had fucking 110% retention. I'm like, dude, yeah. Like, I don't really. I'm not a huge YouTube analytics guy, but.
- [95:04]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, Lots of completion, though.
- [95:06]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
- [95:07]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah. There's. I wish that there was a way that we could see more sentiment on YouTube than just click through and watch time. And I guess likes kind of contribute a little bit to that and comments kind of contribute.
- [95:20]
Steve Deleonardis
But getting a lot of likes is nice, too.
- [95:22]
Kyle Forgeard
It is good.
- [95:23]
Steve Deleonardis
It doesn't do shit I tell the audience, but it just. It fires the whole team up to just see, like a lot of likes.
- [95:28]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah. This isn't gonna make it go any further, but thank you. It makes everybody in the office. It fires everyone up. Yeah. I wish there was this idea that Twitter had X, I guess, about golden hearts or super likes, I think they were called. And what they had was you maybe got three per week or one per week. And it meant that because there was a limited number that you had to use, you had to be really selective about what you gave it to. But that meant it was a really big deal, you know, like on Reddit, you can kind of gift people stuff.
- [95:58]
Steve Deleonardis
YouTube should do more shit like that, right?
- [96:00]
Kyle Forgeard
It would be so good.
- [96:01]
Steve Deleonardis
Because they've lost, like that. I don't know. Like. Yeah, there's not really that much point of even having an account that much. Right. Like, before, it was all about subscribers and, you know, you would subscribe to people. Like, it kind of sucks now, too. I don't know if you noticed, but it's a lot harder to gain subs now, right?
- [96:20]
Kyle Forgeard
Way harder.
- [96:21]
Steve Deleonardis
There's no point of subscribing to someone.
- [96:23]
Kyle Forgeard
No. Because if you watch three videos in a row from the same creator, whether you've subscribed or not, you're now going to be delivered.
- [96:29]
Steve Deleonardis
YouTube used to be all about your subscriptions.
- [96:31]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
- [96:32]
Steve Deleonardis
I mean, I like the fact they need to add. They need to bring like a Dana White on for, like, they. They should do something like that. They should bring someone on and, like, add some stuff.
- [96:42]
Kyle Forgeard
Like, I wonder if they'll follow suit. I mean, we've certainly seen, you know, the person that broke through was Elon with them. What he changed with regards to Twitter into X and now with Meta as well. I wonder if that's going to put some pressure on. On YouTube and that would be great to sort of.
- [96:59]
Steve Deleonardis
I think X. X has been putting.
- [97:01]
Kyle Forgeard
Pressure on YouTube because they've got the video uploads.
- [97:04]
Steve Deleonardis
Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean, we're John is pretty tight with. He helps out a lot with X. And yeah, they're definitely. What Elon's doing is putting pressure on every other social media network, you know, because they have to follow suit. I've actually even noticed YouTube is. And I want to give credit to YouTube because we shit on them a lot. But at the end of the day YouTube is fucking great and they've been a lot more lenient. I've noticed, I've noticed since X. I don't think we've gotten an age restriction in a long ass time. We used to upload everything age restricted. Age restricted. Age restricted. Like now. Like I noticed. Yeah, I think it was during the time of x2. Like we would do a podcast with like Donald Trump Jr. And like he's just going off about like trans and stuff like that. Like usually that would be like yo, an absolute no go and just like no age restriction, no nothing. So I started to really notice like YouTube is, they're following suit as well. Like they're, they're gonna have to follow the money. Everyone's gonna have to follow the money. I've noticed they've been way less picky on us.
- [98:17]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, I, well they rolled back the language policy thing that they brought in about a year or 18 months ago or so. It was within the first two minutes of a video and we're going through and thinking, oh God, someone said shit within this time. We've got to get rid of that. Found out that the C word is just an instant demonetization. No matter how deep it can be. An hour and a half into a three hour long video, you're getting popped. Yeah, but how much are you tracking this world of kick and twitch and rumble and whatever the other ones are streaming stuff? Cause I kind of see it's huge, right?
- [98:55]
Steve Deleonardis
I watch it and even some people on our team are like, should we do this? Should we stream? I just think that, I don't know, streaming is a, that's a big commitment, you know, and I think to like back in the day when we were younger and we were drinking five times a week to make a video every week, I think we probably could have competed in that streaming space. But the amount of work that these guys are putting in now for content, I mean they're streaming what six days.
- [99:21]
Kyle Forgeard
A week and I was eight hours.
- [99:24]
Steve Deleonardis
Like Kai Sanat too, he's like what, 21? Like he's fucking. Yeah, they're putting in a lot of work. Streaming is not the type of thing that you can Just do it once a week. Like you got to be streaming 30 to whatever hours a week. So I just know how content gets done. On the Nelk side, it's a little more wilder. There's. There's drinking involved and there's things that.
- [99:46]
Kyle Forgeard
Need to be cut out.
- [99:47]
Steve Deleonardis
There's things that. Oh, fuck, yeah, That's a whole different story. Yeah, a live stream with Nelk, depending on the video would be. Yeah, we might be fucked on that, honestly. But yeah, it's just a, it's, it's a grind for sure. And I think if in 2017, I think we would have been able to destroy that space for sure. When we were just young and not even thinking. But I don't know, I just like the YouTube stuff. I like making more of a finished product and polishing our videos and I just love the style that we do.
- [100:19]
Kyle Forgeard
Who is it that's orchestrating the stuff behind the scenes? You say, hey, it would be great if we went to go and see an uncontacted Amazonian tribe, but flights need booking and licenses to get filming rights and, and, and the kit needs all.
- [100:33]
Steve Deleonardis
Probably like, I'll probably mostly like think of the ideas or we just have a group chat with everyone too, that we're just always spitballing shit. But yeah, I'll kind of. I'll press play on the video and tell them, like, all right, I love, like, we all like this idea. Everyone like it. All right, boom, we're doing it. And then we have a producer, Griffin. He used to do some stuff on like the Eric Andre show. He's a beast. And then Gabe too. Gabe and Brett, they'll do all the flights, all the logistics. So I just. My job now is like, I press play and I dish it off to them. And they're all on logistics. Austin and Sean will handle, but he couldn't video. No, we used to do everything back in the day. I mean, I used to edit the videos myself back in the day. So I, I've had a hat. I was my own assistant back in the day. Like, if there was a prop that needed to get it, I would have to go to three different Halloween stores to find the costume. So I've like played all those hats that everyone's doing now. So I kind of know what needs to be done. That's why when I'm hiring them too, I'm kind of knowing I know exactly what needs to be done in each situation. But no, we have a fucking all star team. So when we press play on a video, it's like, bang, bang, bang. There's like no fucking bullshit. That's one thing, like, Gabe knows too. There's no bullshit when it comes to, like, videos. Like, we did a bachelor video recently with Steinie as the Bachelor and that was like, huge budget. We did like five days. We did like Miami, Nashville and Cancun, and it was just like completely dialed to a T. So that's one thing I have no complaints about is our, our video process is like 10 out of 10. That's why I'm just like, yo, we got to run this shit up on Nelk.
- [102:15]
Kyle Forgeard
Yeah, because. Because you've got the systems in place.
- [102:18]
Steve Deleonardis
We have the system. And it's just like such a powerful channel. People want more videos. I'm fired up.
- [102:24]
Kyle Forgeard
That's sick. Yeah, dude, I appreciate the fuck out of you. Yeah, it's awesome. It really is. It's cool to see what you're doing. I love, I love seeing someone that's passionate about what they, what they do and is able to scale it and get out of their own way and just hand stuff off and yeah, I'm excited to see what 25 has in store for both of us.
- [102:43]
Steve Deleonardis
Crush it this year.
- [102:43]
Kyle Forgeard
Appreciate you, man.
- [102:44]
Steve Deleonardis
Appreciate you, brother. Let's go.
- [102:47]
Kyle Forgeard
Any more drops? Any other shit that people need to check out?
- [102:50]
Steve Deleonardis
Not really. Just watch us this year. I mean, I just talked a big game. So everyone watching, Everyone watching. If we don't do it, come, come chirp me, come fucking give me shit. Stay on our asses. I love it.
- [103:01]
Kyle Forgeard
Fuck yeah. Appreciate you, man.
- [103:02]
Steve Deleonardis
Thank you guys.
- [103:03]
Kyle Forgeard
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