Modern Wisdom Podcast Episode #911: Louise Perry - Has Modern Society Set Women Up For Failure?

Release Date: March 6, 2025

In this compelling episode of Modern Wisdom, host Chris Williamson engages in a profound dialogue with Louise Perry to explore the intricate ways modern society may be inadvertently setting women up for failure. The conversation delves into issues surrounding sex work, social services, marriage trends, fertility rates, and the evolving dynamics of parenting. Below is a detailed summary capturing the essence of their discussion, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

1. The Complexities of Modern Sex Work

Louise Perry opens the conversation by addressing the reliability of modern contraception methods used by female sex workers, citing the Marina coil's one in a thousand effectiveness rate (00:20) and expressing concerns about the potential involvement of social services in cases where women like Bonnie Blue and Lily Phillips are engaged in online sex work (00:48).

Key Insights:

• Evolution of the Term "Sex Worker": Perry highlights how the term has expanded from traditional street-based prostitution to include digital platforms like OnlyFans, complicating societal perceptions and regulatory approaches.

• Psychological Toll on Children: She emphasizes the potential psychological impact on children born into unconventional sex work environments, questioning the long-term repercussions on their well-being (02:25).

Notable Quote:

"OnlyFans is to the marriage marker as a criminal record is to the jobs market; it is forever." – Louise Perry (03:52)

2. Social Services and Child Protection

The discussion transitions to the role of social services in monitoring and intervening in cases where children might be exposed to the sex work environment at home. Perry argues that despite modern sex work being primarily digital, the psychological and social risks to children remain significant (02:48).

Key Insights:

• Reclamations and Redefinitions: The normalization of sex work through platforms like OnlyFans does not mitigate the inherent risks associated with exposing children to such environments.

• Selection and Sperm Pool: Perry questions the odds of prominent figures like Bonnie Blue and Lily Phillips becoming pregnant simultaneously, hinting at the complex dynamics of their personal lives and professional engagements (00:18).

Notable Quote:

"I strongly concluded from that that actually she is doing this more as a kind of self-harm than anything else." – Louise Perry (06:10)

3. Marriage Trends and Fertility Rates

Perry and Williamson delve into the declining marriage rates and fertility trends in modern societies. They discuss Lyman Stone's perspective that late marriage is a primary driver behind reduced fertility rates, rather than factors like housing costs or feminism (34:00).

Key Insights:

• Costly Signals of Suitability: Traditional signals of suitability for marriage, such as military service or property ownership, have become less accessible to younger men, making it harder to form lasting partnerships.

• Cultural Shifts: The shift from early marriages during the baby boom to later marriages today disrupts the traditional reproductive timelines, contributing to fertility decline (37:50).

Notable Quote:

"Most people take life as it comes much more and are much more passive and just basically go along with what other people are doing and kind of follow life scripts and hope for the best." – Chris Williamson (10:54)

4. The Role of Agentic Individuals in Society

The conversation explores the concept of agency and how highly agentic individuals like Elon Musk influence societal norms and outcomes. Perry posits that while agency is a desirable trait for leaders, it may not be beneficial if universally adopted, as it could lead to societal chaos (07:13).

Key Insights:

• Meritocracy and Outsourcing Decision-Making: Relying on highly intelligent and agentic individuals to design societal norms may not cater to the majority who prefer a more passive lifestyle.

• Psychiatric Advancements: The discussion touches upon advancements in psychiatric medications like Ozempic, highlighting societal resistance rooted more in moral judgments than medical facts (17:15).

Notable Quote:

"I think the reason that the average American is divorced, obese and has less than 1k in the bank is because we live in a society that is set up in a maladaptive way for human nature." – Louise Perry (13:00)

5. Parenting in Modern Society

Perry shares her insights from motherhood, discussing the challenges of optimal parenting in a society not fully equipped for it. They explore how neuroticism impacts parenting styles and the adaptive nature of certain traits for child-rearing (70:51).

Key Insights:

• Neuroticism and Adaptive Behavior: Perry suggests that while neuroticism was historically adaptive for protecting offspring, in modern contexts, it may deter individuals from embracing parenthood.

• Gender Differences in Parenting: The conversation highlights how societal expectations and diagnoses like ADHD are influenced by traditional gender roles and educational systems not tailored to different behavioral norms (75:54).

Notable Quote:

"Neuroticism is adaptive because neurotic mothers historically were the ones who spotted the snake on the ground or took whatever protective measures necessary in order to protect their children." – Louise Perry (71:41)

6. Community and Multigenerational Living

The speakers discuss the importance of community and multigenerational living for successful parenting and societal stability. Perry contrasts traditional, genetically linked communities with modern, socially constructed living arrangements, emphasizing the challenges of the latter (80:42).

Key Insights:

• Coordination Problems in Modern Communities: Attempts to recreate trad life through chosen communities face significant obstacles due to the lack of genetic ties and the ease of opting out.

• Historical Practices and Mental Health: Traditional societies, whether patri-local or matri-local, had built-in support systems that are now missing, contributing to mental health challenges like prairie madness (86:52).

Notable Quote:

"It's the most important thing you can do at Princeton is find a husband, not get your degree." – Louise Perry (45:47)

7. Pronatalism and Population Dynamics

The episode delves into the broader implications of declining birth rates, discussing pronatalist policies and the existential risks of a fertility crisis. Perry expresses concern over maintaining modern medical infrastructures amidst falling fertility rates and the genetic selection pressures this may impose (65:56).

Key Insights:

• Survival of Pronatalist Societies: Societies like Israel that manage to sustain high fertility rates while embracing modernity may become dominant.

• Genetic and Cultural Bottlenecks: Perry theorizes that humanity might be navigating through a bottleneck phase, where only certain genetic and cultural traits ensuring high fertility and technological maintenance will prevail (66:07).

Notable Quote:

"We're going through this almighty bottleneck. But I'm not a doomer about it. I don't think that the human race is going to die out." – Louise Perry (56:59)

8. The Future of Modern Society

In their final discussions, Perry and Williamson speculate on the long-term survival of modern societal structures in the face of declining birth rates and changing family dynamics. They consider how technological advancements and selective genetic pressures might shape future generations (63:06).

Key Insights:

• Maintenance of Medical Technologies: Ensuring that future societies retain essential medical technologies is crucial for continued low infant mortality rates.

• Adaptive Social Norms: Adjusting social norms to support multigenerational living and community involvement could mitigate some challenges posed by declining fertility (65:56).

Notable Quote:

"It might be that the thing that keeps a lid on population explosion, one is mortality, the other is fertility. The magic combo is the group that can be highly fertile and keep their children alive." – Louise Perry (84:46)

Conclusion

This episode of Modern Wisdom offers a nuanced exploration of the societal structures impacting women's success and well-being in contemporary times. Through Louise Perry's insightful analysis and Chris Williamson's probing questions, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the interplay between sex work, marriage trends, fertility rates, and the evolving roles of parenting. The conversation underscores the complexity of these issues, highlighting the need for thoughtful discourse and adaptive societal strategies to support women and future generations.

Listen to the full episode here.

Note: Timestamps are approximate and correspond to the transcript sections.