#950 - Craig Jones - Drugged In Colombia, Escaping Jail & Defeating UFC Wrestling

Summary

Modern Wisdom Podcast Summary: Episode #950 – Craig Jones: Drugged In Colombia, Escaping Jail & Defeating UFC Wrestling

Release Date: June 5, 2025

In Episode #950 of the Modern Wisdom podcast, host Chris Williamson engages in a riveting and candid conversation with renowned Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) expert Craig Jones. This episode delves deep into Craig’s extraordinary adventures across South America and Africa, his encounters with danger and resilience, his philanthropic efforts, and his ambitious plans to revolutionize the grappling sports scene. Below is a detailed summary capturing all the key discussions, insights, and memorable moments from their extensive dialogue.

---

1. Surviving the Colombian After Party

Craig Jones opens up about his intense five-day bender in Cartagena, Colombia, following an event with CJI1. What was intended as a celebratory trip quickly turned into an endurance test reminiscent of a David Goggins-like challenge.

Craig Jones [00:45]: "The secret investor threw us a party, and it was the hardest five days of my entire life. It was grueling in Colombia."

Despite the hedonistic atmosphere, Craig credits IVs and the relentless spirit of Coach Joe Lopez for helping him survive the ordeal.

Craig Jones [01:08]: "We didn't sleep much. The guy had it set up so we had IVs every morning. That probably kept me alive, quite honestly."

2. Meeting Pablo Escobar's Sister

Amidst the chaos of Cartagena, Craig recounts a surreal encounter with Pablo Escobar's sister during a dinner outing. Attempting an insensitive gesture by pouring cocaine-like powder as a prop on Escobar’s grave, Craig triggered a complex interaction that highlighted the lingering shadows of Escobar’s legacy.

Craig Jones [03:43]: "We went out for dinner. She took us on a tour of Pablo's old house, and then we got hammered together on red wine."

The meeting took a turn when Craig explained the symbolism behind his gesture, revealing the family's efforts to distance themselves from Pablo’s notorious activities.

Craig Jones [04:28]: "She says, no. Brilliant PR move. You know what I mean? Like, the government's not coming for that land if they don't think you have it."

3. The Devil’s Breath: Being Drugged in Colombia

One of the most harrowing experiences Craig shares is being unknowingly drugged with scopolamine, infamously known as the Devil’s Breath. This encounter left him incapacitated, saved only by his personal assistant Seth’s quick thinking and strength.

Craig Jones [07:19]: "You haven't heard of it? No. All right, so basically there's a substance, it's kind of mythical in its nature because it quite often is guys heading to a strip club or something and what happens is they wake up with no money in their account."

Craig details how Seth had to physically rescue him from an Airbnb, showcasing the severity of scopolamine’s effects.

Craig Jones [09:53]: "He takes me. Yeah. He takes me to bed."

Reflecting on the incident, Craig underscores the dangers tours like these can pose, emphasizing the importance of vigilance and having reliable companions.

Craig Jones [10:04]: "That shocked me. Seth obviously thought I just drunk too much. But when we put it together, yeah, definitely hit us. Copola. Me."

4. Philanthropic Ventures in Ethiopia

Transitioning from personal turmoil to altruism, Craig discusses his work with the Guardian Program in Ethiopia. Partnering with organizations to build BJJ schools, Craig aims to provide discipline, education, and resources to impoverished children.

Craig Jones [13:17]: "We're trying to use jiu jitsu to give them a foundation of discipline and they're teaching them English at the same time."

However, Craig doesn’t shy away from sharing the harsh realities faced by these communities, including brutal tribal ceremonies and widespread corruption.

Craig Jones [16:29]: "He was like, I'm going to cook you breakfast in the morning, and then I'm out of here."

5. Cultural Encounters and Challenges

Craig narrates his interactions with various Ethiopian tribes, witnessing age-old traditions that test both physical endurance and emotional resilience.

Craig Jones [16:03]: "One of them we rolled into and they were doing a whipping ceremony... They have to poker face it. Absolutely brutal."

These experiences underscore the vast cultural disparities and the complexities of making a meaningful impact in such environments.

6. Adventures and Misadventures in Peru and Brazil

Beyond Ethiopia and Colombia, Craig recounts his ventures in Peru, aiding in building schools amidst extreme poverty, and his foray into Brazil with a clothing release event. His attempt to engage with local bartenders in favelas showcases both the allure and dangers of mixing sports with local cultures.

Craig Jones [38:54]: "They have some impressive weaponry up there, even like RPG launchers to take out police helicopters and stuff."

Despite these challenges, Craig remains committed to fostering positive relationships and promoting the sport of BJJ.

7. Tattoos, Legal Hurdles, and Escaping Jail

Craig humorously shares his experiences with tattoos, including a rebellious MS-13 tattoo that led to humorous yet precarious situations, such as potential deportation and unexpected confrontations.

Craig Jones [45:09]: "I'm really testing the limits of US Deportation here."

These anecdotes highlight Craig’s fearless and sometimes reckless approach to life, adding a layer of unpredictability to his persona.

8. The Nomadic Lifestyle: Pros and Cons

Discussing his perpetual travel, Craig balances the excitement of new adventures with the logistical nightmares of a nomadic existence. His reliance on Seth to manage wardrobe changes and handle emergencies underscores the challenges of living out of a suitcase.

Craig Jones [48:28]: "Carrying a massive suitcase around the entire time? That's where Seth, again, the personal assistant, comes in."

9. Upcoming Event: CGI2 – Revolutionizing Grappling Competitions

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Craig’s ambitious project, CGI2, set to take place in Las Vegas. Unlike its predecessor, CGI2 aims to introduce a team-based, last-man-standing format inspired by Japanese Quintet events, blending storytelling with high-stakes competition.

Craig Jones [53:02]: "We're trying to push the envelope in creating excitement in the event."

He elaborates on the innovative rules, team compositions, and the inclusion of wild cards to keep the audience engaged and the competition unpredictable.

Craig Jones [66:27]: "We're trying to steal the theatrics, obviously. Vince McMahon, personal hero of mine. I'm really trying to steal what he did for professional wrestling minus his personal life."

10. Grappling vs. Wrestling: A Tactical Showdown

Craig passionately critiques the sport of wrestling, arguing that BJJ has the upper hand in ground combat due to its comprehensive grappling techniques. He envisions CGI2 as a platform to showcase BJJ's superiority over traditional wrestling, predicting thrilling matchups.

Craig Jones [54:33]: "How do you beat wrestling? I mean, first of all, you're not going to have the most intelligent human being in the sport of wrestling... they're going to win the war, you know what I mean."

11. Insights on Coaching, Confidence, and MMA

Shifting gears, Craig offers profound insights into coaching methodologies, emphasizing the importance of building athletes' confidence to perform under pressure. His experiences cornering MMA fighters illuminate the psychological aspects of combat sports, advocating for a balanced approach between technical training and mental fortitude.

Craig Jones [78:02]: "When you're dealing with an athlete in those circumstances, you really do have to be very calculated and thoughtful about how you approach coaching them."

12. Future Ambitions and the Evolution of BJJ

Concluding the episode, Craig reflects on his vision for the future of BJJ and grappling sports. He expresses a desire to prevent monopolization by major organizations, promote fair compensation for athletes, and continue innovating competition formats to keep the sport exciting and accessible.

Craig Jones [71:43]: "My goal was just to grow the sport... to ensure that there's a viable event that doesn't have exclusive contracts, that just wants the best athletes in the world to participate."

---

Conclusion

Episode #950 of Modern Wisdom offers a whirlwind tour through Craig Jones’s multifaceted life, blending high-octane adventures with deep philosophical insights on combat sports and personal growth. From surviving drug-induced incapacitation in Colombia to pioneering transformative grappling competitions, Craig’s narrative is one of resilience, innovation, and relentless pursuit of excellence. Listeners are treated to a blend of thrilling stories, strategic thinking, and motivational lessons that encapsulate the essence of overcoming adversity and striving for greatness.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Jones [01:08]: "We didn't sleep much. The guy had it set up so we had IVs every morning. That probably kept me alive, quite honestly."
• Craig Jones [07:19]: "You haven't heard of it? No. All right, so basically there's a substance, it's kind of mythical in its nature because it quite often is guys heading to a strip club or something and what happens is they wake up with no money in their account."
• Craig Jones [53:02]: "We're trying to push the envelope in creating excitement in the event."

This episode not only entertains with tales of survival and adventure but also imparts valuable lessons on leadership, coaching, and the importance of maintaining integrity and innovation in the face of challenges.

Transcript

[Chris Willx]

That would be good. You could do like a Andrew Huberman's morning routine. And my morning routine compared.

[Craig Jones]

Well, I think we start pretty similar by messaging five different women. We missed. Are we recording? I hope that's in. Cut that in.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah, that's in. All right, man. Hello. Welcome back. How are you?

[Craig Jones]

Good to see you, mate. I'm still alive, unfortunately, yeah.

[Chris Willx]

Last time we were together with CJI1.

[Craig Jones]

And I think I left you at a strip Club around 7am no, that was.

[Chris Willx]

That was someone else that looked like me.

[Craig Jones]

James Smith.

[Chris Willx]

That was James Smith. How did you celebrate after cgi?

[Craig Jones]

Oh, I mean, we went to Cartagena, Colombia and went on a five day bender. Pretty much came out very unhealthy, but survived it.

[Chris Willx]

Direct from Vegas.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. So we left the after party, flew straight in there. The secret investor threw us a party, and it was the hardest five days of my entire life. It was grueling in Colombia. In Colombia, yeah. Heavy times down in Colombia.

[Chris Willx]

Right. So it was like the. Like an endurance sport, Endurance racing. Like the David Goggins of. Of parties?

[Craig Jones]

Pretty much. I mean, we didn't sleep much. The guy had it set up so we had IVs every morning. That probably kept me alive, quite honestly. And we brought Volkanovsky's Coach, Joe Lopez, 73 years old, didn't sleep, did not sleep for three days. Used his poor Spanish on any woman that would listen to him, but somehow, still alive, returned to his family safely. Every time I take him away, Volkanovsky calls me and is like, please, bro.

[Chris Willx]

Bring him back alive.

[Craig Jones]

He's gonna die. And I'm asking his family wants. They keep asking me.

[Chris Willx]

Right, okay, Jesus. How would you. What's your synopsis of how the first one went?

[Craig Jones]

I mean, I think it really couldn't have gone much better, you know, like, it actually surprised me. Obviously, I have my personal assistant, Seth, take care of a lot of the more mundane activities in preparing us for the event. But, yeah, everything went off without a hitch as far as I'm concerned. What did you think of the show?

[Chris Willx]

I enjoyed it, man. It's. I think my lifetime watching of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was multiplied by about 10 over that single weekend. I saw more Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in that one weekend than I think I had my entire life up until that point.

[Craig Jones]

Day one was a marathon, that's for sure. Day two hit the sweet spot. I think for this next one, we're going to try and make both days a little shorter. I mean, like, no matter how much you love something 10 hours of it, unless it's a Colombian after party, is a lot, in my opinion.

[Chris Willx]

What was. What were the best bits? What were the worst bits, in your opinion?

[Craig Jones]

I mean, to be honest, my favorite part was the crowd turning positive on Gabby Garcia because she's been the villain the entire time. We made her the villain in the lead up. She's been the butt of the joke, and then like everyone's Buddha whenever she's won. So then there was that heartfelt moment. I was quite happy for her to get that.

[Chris Willx]

That was cute. Yeah. And, okay, you finish up cgi, you go to Columbia, but it took four months for you to get back into the US Longer.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, it took. Honestly, I don't know what it was you might be able to imagine, but something about Columbia really struck at my heartstrings. Something about the culture down there. So I went back to see my family in Adelaide. They were quite surprised I survived Colombia and then basically went straight back to South America to continue the adventure.

[Chris Willx]

Okay, what did you adventure?

[Craig Jones]

We went Brazil, we went to Argentina, we went to. Back to Colombia. And I was back in Colombia for a good five to six weeks, but this time, instead of Cartagena, straight into Medellin.

[Chris Willx]

Okay. Did you meet Pablo Escobell's sister?

[Craig Jones]

I did. And this is actually a weird story, so I put up a post. I think I actually made quite an insensitive post. I was using the cocaine sunglasses to pour some powder, a prop onto Pablo's grave, like one for the fallen homies, you know? But a guy messaged me on Instagram, and he's like, do you want to meet the sister? And I was like, you're full of shit for sure. You know, you get one of those dms. But then he sent me a picture of a large quantity of a substance that made me assume that he was the real deal. So I ventured off down to meet him on a Saturday night in Colombia, and he showed me some pictures with the sister. And later that week, we went out for dinner. She took us on a bit of a tour of Pablo's old house, and then we got hammered together on red wine. And everything was going good until I tricked her into putting the sunglasses on for a photo. And then we explained to her what the sunglasses were for. And it took a bit of a turn, but still we.

[Chris Willx]

Why? What happened then?

[Craig Jones]

Well, she. I mean, obviously she's not into the heritage of the Escobar name, you know?

[Chris Willx]

Oh, right. She's completely just disparaged and gotten rid of that illustrious history.

[Craig Jones]

The Family empire. Yeah, I was. I was grilling her on a lot of questions about Pablo, but obviously a lot of the notorious nefarious activities were shielded from the family life.

[Chris Willx]

But have they still got access to that house? His. One of his houses?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, I think that's actually something she was trying to clarify. Me and the guy that sort of helped connect us as well was Pablo's old driver. And they were trying to clarify that the large stacks of cash where people were talking about, like, what was holding the cash together was disintegrating and stuff was, like, largely a myth. And most of the cocaine transactions were for land or for houses. So I believe they did get to keep a lot of the proceeds of that.

[Chris Willx]

As opposed to it being. He spends $10,000 a week on rubber bands.

[Craig Jones]

Exactly.

[Chris Willx]

Put all of the cash together. That wasn't true.

[Craig Jones]

She says, no. Brilliant PR move. You know what I mean? Like, the government's not coming for that land if they don't think you have it. They're just looking for that buried cash.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah, that is interesting. Do you get drugged? Did you. Did you unintentionally get drugged?

[Craig Jones]

I did unintentionally get drugs. So, like, obviously. So to set up the story, obviously, we're there on a bender, but I went down there for four or five weeks, and, like, all my friends are hitting me up, being like, you're in Colombia, I'll come down. And it's like, when you live in a tourist spot, people are like, they want to do all the tourist when you come down. So, like, every time a new friend comes down, they put my body through the ringer. But those last two weeks, I tried to pace myself for a bit of survival. And then again, my personal assistant, Seth, he came down there exploiting my name for some stem cells at a stem cell company because they get the real shit down there in Colombia. So he comes down, and we decide to hit the main strip. And usually I would stay at the house. We'd get obliterated. And then we adventure out into the streets of Medellin, see what we could find. Right. But this night, we went out just for a couple casual cocktails, because, of course, you have stem cells. You're not meant to drink. You're meant to stay healthy. So we're actually on the main street of Columbia, and Seth had stem cells in his neck. So I definitely positioned him with his sort of back towards the crowd at his stiff neck. Every time I pointed out an attractive Colombian woman who's in paralysis, trying to turn around and Then I. So I don't know who drugged me, but have you heard about the drug scopolamine? The devil's breath?

[Chris Willx]

No.

[Craig Jones]

You haven't heard of it? No. All right, so basically there's a substance, it's kind of mythical in its nature because it quite often is guys heading to a strip club or something and what happens is they wake up with no money in their account. So it's a bit of a. It's a great boogeyman of a story for the missus.

[Chris Willx]

Oh, no, it was the Devil's breath.

[Craig Jones]

I must have been drugged. So, like, I think it's largely exaggerated, but still a lot of people die down there. Two jiu Jitsu guys sat next to me rambling while I was having a couple cocktails with Seth. They met with a couple of Tinder dates. And Tinder down there is pretty dangerous because obviously these druggings and stuff. And then I don't know who put it in my drink. Could have been the bartender, could have been the guy's Tinder date I tried to steal that night. Could have been him. But from that point on, just basically and usually I can handle a few drinks. I probably only had three, four drinks. And I remember just distinctly the last memory I have, we had two shots there and Seth was trying not to drink because of the stem cells. And I was like, you're a pussy. So I drank my shot and his shot. And ordinarily that's something I would do because given his 5 foot 3 size, a full margarita might kill the man. So usually I'm jumping on bullets for him as it is. But what ended up happening was we went to. Our next destination was obviously a family friendly location, as you can imagine in Medellin. Seth walks into the bathroom and finds me basically pants down. I've pulled my shirt off, I've gone to the bathroom, I'm overheating. He thinks it's a dream come true. He's found me in the bathroom unconscious with my pants down. But he has to get me out of there. And the funniest thing is he had to carry me out of there with his stem cell, really damaged neck. So he could. I mean, he could barely lift me as it is, but with the stem cell injury. So really he carried me home, tucked me into bed. Apparently I was closed. I woke up fully naked, suspicious. But he wouldn't. He obviously wouldn't have done much damage if he did. But we checked. We basically checked the security camera footage the next day. And really the reason we realized it was copolamine. Because it has this. You're sort of like the walking dead. I couldn't walk because I took two hits. But you remember all your banking detail. Like, you remember the numbers very well, so it, like, messes with your head. But it's great to rob people because you remember the details. So we've got the security camera footage where Seth's dragging me to the front door. We get to the Airbnb, and I, like, perk up, put the code in, pass back out.

[Chris Willx]

You're kidding.

[Craig Jones]

He takes me. Yeah. He takes me to bed.

[Chris Willx]

That's insane. So it's able to completely incapacitate people, apart from their ability to do mental arithmetic and remember numbers.

[Craig Jones]

Exactly. So it's. That shocked me. Seth obviously thought I just drunk too much. But when we put it together, it was, yeah, definitely hit us. Copola. Me. And we are constantly having this argument, really. Who saved whose life? He obviously rescued me from the bathroom floor, but I jumped on the bullet of his drugging shot. So it's kind of who saved who here.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah. So stem cells plus scopolamine would have been. Can you just sort of run the game tape forward? What would have happened if the shots had been reversed and you'd had to look after Seth? Do you think you'd have been.

[Craig Jones]

Seth would not be sitting there awkwardly in the corner looking at us. He'd probably be in a gr. In a grave six feet under the ground somewhere.

[Chris Willx]

Okay, so what was the day after like? Is there a come down?

[Craig Jones]

You know what? Honestly, I woke up naked and saw a trash can on the. Like, saw a trash can there. And I was just like, fuck, what happened last night? But I felt pretty good, to be honest. I was like. Cause obviously, usually a hangover, as you well know, can be very ugly the next day. But I remember being like, I don't remember anything that happened. And then I started to piece it together. Obviously, the camera guy that was with us at the time, he sort of showed me the videotape he took of me basically entering the house. I called Seth. We're trying to piece it together. Really. It was a mystery.

[Chris Willx]

Where were you living? Were you just Airbnb around?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, just Airbnb. I mean, yeah, luckily, Airbnb and the guy at the front desk showed us a security camera footage to piece it together. And he thought it was the funniest thing he's ever seen. No pity at all from the security guard.

[Chris Willx]

Well, he could have. Had he have not known that you guys were friends? He could have assumed that it was a very forthcoming, very tanned Native American man using scopolamine and scrutiny.

[Craig Jones]

I mean, that's how many of Seth States go. You know, they don't call him Bill Gosby for nothing. Same complexion. Bad timing for that joke with our team. But we'll go on. Now, to be fair, Bill Cosby was taller significantly.

[Chris Willx]

Okay, what else you get up to in Columbia? Tell me.

[Craig Jones]

I mean, honestly, I think that's all you can do down there, is just get obliterated and try to find true love with a Colombian woman, you know, which is.

[Chris Willx]

I can fix it.

[Craig Jones]

Very, very difficult. The fantasy ends quite quickly and expensively.

[Chris Willx]

Someone asked me a question on a Q and A. They said, which country has the most beautiful women? And I said, that's the wrong question. The question that you should be asking is, which country's got the ugliest men? And I actually think that Colombia ranks probably top five for the delta. Between the quality of the women and the quality of the men, there is no difference. Now, Dubai has a massive difference, but that gets compensated by all of the wealth that the guys have got. But very, very attractive women, very, very ugly men.

[Craig Jones]

I honestly brought the average down for the men over there, I think. And I was. I was doing them a world of good.

[Chris Willx]

All right, and then you went to Ethiopia. Why'd you go there?

[Craig Jones]

So we. We got this. Obviously, we've got that Fair Fight Foundation. Despite everything I've just said, I do do charity work. I'm for the greater good. You know what I mean? And we partner with the Guardian program, which has jiu jitsu schools all around the world for sort of kids that wouldn't have access to those programs. And they provide them clean drinking water in some of the places, food and English lessons. So we went out there, actually. Where. Where was I? Actually, we were in Peru and with the Guardian guys, because that were building a school out there in Peru. And one of the guys in Ethiopia that runs the Guardian program there, K.O. one of the guys. Guardian got me to send a. A video message to him, and I just winged it. And I was like, because he's a fan of me. I don't know why, but I sent him a message, and I was like, I'll see you soon in Ethiopia. And then I just pursued that to the end to visit his school. And we went out there with Guardian, and these kids were basically training on concrete sin Addis Ababa. And we went out there and went on a bit of an adventure, but they were trained on concrete.

[Chris Willx]

And we figured, you Mean training on concrete?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, just like concrete with like maybe three or four puzzle mats or like real harsh conditions for the kids out there in Ethiopia. So we generously fitted out their gym with mats and show roll, hooked them up with some geese for them to train in. But they're. Yeah, tough conditions for them training.

[Chris Willx]

So they're doing. They're trying to do Brazilian jiu jitsu, essentially on concrete.

[Craig Jones]

Not a heavy guard pulling culture, as you can imagine. But yeah, I mean, Ethiopia was absolutely wild. Just the sheer scale of the poverty out there was mind blowing. And we went to visit a couple of the tribes out there. We went to. Honestly, I can't remember the name of the tribes, but we went deep out there to see two different tribes. One of them we rolled into and they were doing a whipping ceremony, which was. There's like a coming of age ceremony for a man in the tribe before he disappears for a while on some hunting expedition. But the way they celebrate that is he does his part. The male part of this is they line up seven or eight balls and he just runs naked across them back and forth. So that's his contribution.

[Chris Willx]

Across what?

[Craig Jones]

Across bulls. Like the animal.

[Chris Willx]

Right. So they had a little set of steps or something like that.

[Craig Jones]

They just helped him out. Well, actually they had a smaller bull to kick, a little stepping. A stepping stone of a stepping.

[Chris Willx]

Right.

[Craig Jones]

He made it. He. He fell at the very ends. But I couldn't post any of that footage because he was naked, unfortunately. Okay, naked, well endowed and intimidated.

[Chris Willx]

Naked, well endowed teenager running across a bunch of bulls.

[Craig Jones]

Yep. Yeah.

[Chris Willx]

And then they whipped him.

[Craig Jones]

No, they didn't whip him. They whipped a bunch of women in the tribe. So we roll in, we're on this full drive adventure.

[Chris Willx]

It is like B team.

[Craig Jones]

It's basically a grading ceremony at B team. You know, it doesn't come easy. It's out of bose, a lot of whipping.

[Chris Willx]

Okay, so why are they whipping the women?

[Craig Jones]

So he get this. Right? And again, from my own perspective, not a problem for men like me and you. But the women are whipped to show that they can handle physical pain, to show that they're ready for sex.

[Chris Willx]

Okay, what are they whipped with?

[Craig Jones]

So the girls, this is a crazy. This is crazy thing to watch. They go and they have to find branches and they run like they're doing a song and dance and stuff. It's a celebratory day for the dude. But for the women, they're suffering. They go find some long branches and they present it to a man and he like tests it to make sure it's thick enough and then just slams them with it. And they have to poker face it. Absolutely brutal.

[Chris Willx]

They can't make any noise or show any pain.

[Craig Jones]

No, that's the gang. Like, if they show any pain, they're sort of, like, failing. They. They're part of the test. They just have to eat it.

[Chris Willx]

Oh, that's seen as, like, lack of resilience. Not. Not sufficiently strong.

[Craig Jones]

But again, it's like, it's to prove that they can endure the physical pain that would come with sex, which is.

[Chris Willx]

How old are the women that are being whipped?

[Craig Jones]

Honestly, probably like as young as 12. So it's pretty heavy shit to watch.

[Chris Willx]

Ooh, and it's boys and men as well, I'm gonna guess.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, Full men just whipping them. And the girls are, like, giving them branches. And if the guy's like, it's not thick enough, they're like, like, insulted and they just, like, run away. Like, the men are insulted. Like, this branch, throw it away, and the girls have to run and find a new one, but full, like, welted up backs and like, just blood.

[Chris Willx]

And this is all to celebrate the guy that ran across some balls.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, it's a bit imbalanced there.

[Chris Willx]

Hey, he get. He got a stepping bowl and then six more balls. And the girls had the shit whipped out of them. Yeah, but presumably that they have to do that each time because there can't be. There can't be, like, 10 new girls ready to be whipped each time that one guy becomes of age.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, some of them had some serious.

[Chris Willx]

Scars on their back already from previous times doing this.

[Craig Jones]

So that was like. That was pretty heavy to witness. And then we went to another tribe, and this tribe was a tribe they didn't. We didn't see. This only happens once a year. But this was like. This was heavy when he was telling me about it, like about the genital mutilation. So telling me about how they remove, like, the clitoris and parts of the vagina so that the women will not enjoy sex. And again, that was like, something mind blowing to me because I just assumed they weren't meant to anyway. But they actually use things, like anything they get their hands on. So some of the tribes don't have scissors. He's trying to keep it together. We're talking about a heavy thing here, Chris. Scissors, glass. Some tribes will have to use fingernails, like, anything to basically mutilate so they don't experience the pleasure of sex, I think to encourage in them chastity. Chastity. Yeah. But I remember the guy, like, he gave me this big plug about that, and then he was like, but it's a celebration. We kill a lot of animals that day and have a big feast. And I was like, oh, it's fine then.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, evens it out. How did you. Were you. Like, that sounds quite disturbing to see and hear about. Is that the sort of thing that affects you? I know that you seem like quite a resilient guy, but does stuff like that get to you?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, I mean, that's. Yeah, that's pretty, pretty heavy to witness. It's just the scale of it. Like, I think if you haven't visited Africa, you don't understand the scale of that really, that continent. So it's like just to see that within one country and how many people are in that country, the scale of a would be the most affecting. The. Just the realization that you, like, pretty hard to make a difference out there. Yeah. I mean, like, how are you going to. Like, you see that tribe participating in that, and it's like you kind of would want that to not happen, but how are you going to intervene? You know what I mean? Like, there were dudes rolling around with guns there and stuff. He was pointing his gun at me, pretending to shoot me and stuff.

[Chris Willx]

After Ukraine, that's just half of the course for you, right?

[Craig Jones]

That's. Yeah, pretty. Pretty much. But yeah, I mean, it's definitely, definitely affecting, but, like, just. It's pretty bleak, you know. Gives you a bleak outlook on the world.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah, it's a strange one, I think. You know, we talk about the difficulties in raising up working class areas of America or the UK or Australia or whatever. We need investment. We need to have cultural interventions and role models and upward aiming and all this sort of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not convinced that that is the same solution that would work when it comes to, you know, tribes that for generations and generations have done the same sort of a thing. I wonder how widespread that is. I don't know how many Africa. How many Ethiopian people are still in a tribe of that type versus a slightly more contemporary version of living with, you know, huts and farming and stuff like that.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that was like. That was just two tribes. I think there's like thousands and thousands of tribes just within Ethiopia. And then like, what we learned when we were with the kids at the sort of the. The gym they've set up there that we matted out was that like, there's this whole thing where guys will go to these tribes and either abduct kids or tell the family that they're going to bring the kids to the big city, give them an opportunity and send money or resources back and really they just take them and oftentimes they'll like mutilate the kids or hurt the kids and force them to become beggars. So the city's full of sort of like these escaped kids from the tribes. And to make like just how crazy it is is it's like overran with hyenas. And there's actually quite another factor on that is there's quite a bit of corruption with the police. So the police, if they see any of these homeless kids sleeping, they come after them. And if the homeless kids don't sleep in packs, the hyenas eat them. Even in the capital city, inside of.

[Chris Willx]

The city, the hyenas will pick off a stray child.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, I don't think they'll generally attack like an adult, but if they see a stray child, especially like a dehydrated or hungry weak child the hyenas will come from. So the kids have to for form these gangs to protect themselves from both hyenas and the police. And some of these kids were showing up to training, so they generally sleep in the daytime because the police would give them less grief. And then at night they'll be escaping the police and the hyenas.

[Chris Willx]

In other news, this episode is brought to you by Momentous. If your sleep's not dialed, taking ages to nod off, you're waking up at random times and feeling groggy in the morning. Momentous sleep packs. How did I miss? Both of those are here to help. They're not your typical knock you out supplement overloaded with melatonin, just the most evidence based ingredients at perfect doses to help you fall asleep more quickly, stay asleep throughout the night and wake up feeling more rested and revitalized the morning. Which is why I take these things every single night and why I trust my mentors with my life or at least with my sleep. Because they make the highest quality supplements on the planet. What you read on the label, what's in the product and absolutely nothing else. And if you're still unsure, they've got a 30 day money back guarantee. So you can buy it completely risk free, use it and if you do not like it for any reason, they will give you your money back. Plus they ship internationally. Right now you can get 35% off your first subscription and that 30 day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to live momentous.com ModernWisdom using the code ModernWisdom a checkout that's L I V E M O M E N T O U S dot com Modern Wisdom and Modern Wisdom A checkout. That's insane. That's crazy to think about that. I don't know, you think about that being real outlier, you know, the worst poverty in the world. But I don't know, something tells me this is probably pretty representative for a lot of areas maybe around Africa that have got this kind of poverty.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. And Ethiopia is like Addis Ababa's quiet.

[Chris Willx]

Like I flown through that.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, it's quite there. There are some nice areas of that. Of that city. So it's like. And there's definitely significantly worse parts of Africa.

[Chris Willx]

What was training the kids? Like, were you able to like, I wonder. The crippled hyena chased ex tribe children. You managed to best them.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah.

[Chris Willx]

In the sport that you're a professional.

[Craig Jones]

That's honestly, when I select matches, that's the type of match I would opponent. I would select myself.

[Chris Willx]

You know, someone who's been chased by a hyena for the last couple of weeks.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, pretty much now. The kids are awesome. You know, we're trying to just try to. They're like, they're trying to use jiu jitsu to give them a foundation of like, discipline and they're teaching them English at the same time. They have sort of a safe environment there. But there were so many difficulties, even us filming there. Like, we were trying to film this. The jiu jitsu academy itself is within this apartment complex. And we were trying to film the kids stories as I was speaking to the camera. And even the like guy that ran the apartment complex comes out being like, ask it like grilling us, asking us questions, interrupting the filming, like not wanting us filming it. Like the. I don't want to say too much to get the guys back there in trouble. Obviously they have to deal with a lot of corruption as well. So it's really like. I mean, it's. It's mind blowing to thank Lake, who runs a program out there, like for him to. To see his country and try to have a positive impact on it despite the scale of problems they have to overcome. It's pretty mind blowing.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah, he's going uphill. What was the ketamine thing?

[Craig Jones]

All right, so I won't say where we got it. Maybe I smuggled it in, but at one of the campfires when we're out of the tribes. Right. We were trying, obviously trying to entertain Ourselves. Some of the stories you've told me off camera, for sure. We're trying to entertain ourselves. So we had this ketamine nasal spray, and we were sitting around this fireplace just being idiots. Like, we drove. We were drinking the local moonshine, so I thought that'd be, like, a cool experience, but it basically tasted like gasoline. The local guy was like, gonna go get you guys some of the moonshine. I was like, sick. Let's get drunk. And he came back, and it was in a plastic bottle, and it basically smelled like pure ethanol. So I had to put that down. You know, I wasn't going to turn it away. And then we busted out the ketamine nasal spray. And we were hitting that, obviously being quite reflective at the fireplace. And there was a dude there that had just left. Goat herding. Goat herding had been his thing for generations, his family's thing. Very proud of the culture of goat herding out there. And he saw what we're doing being idiots. And he looked at the spray and he's like. He didn't even speak the same dialect as the guys were with. But definitely, you see a face that's interested and wants to try something, he hits the ketamine. And he sat looking at the fireplace for two hours, not moving. And then the translator came out, and this guy was like, never give that to me again. And then 15 minutes later, he's like. He's like, pass that back.

[Chris Willx]

And then, I mean, I'll do that to you.

[Craig Jones]

That's. Yeah, it'll be you in a hole. Be in a dark place. You come out of it. And then this guy basically gave us his speech to a translator afterwards. How he's had all these, like, visions, and he's like. He was working for the. I wouldn't even say it's a hotel. There's really no electricity or anything. Like, we're sleeping in some tents. But he would sort of cook for us. And he'd only just started doing this cooking role, and following the ketamine experience, he's like, I have to live. I have to return to my roots of goat herding. He's like, I'm going to cook you breakfast in the morning, and then I'm out of here.

[Chris Willx]

You gave a guy an existential crisis with ketamine.

[Craig Jones]

I've given a few people existential crisis with a few substances, but Ethiopian goat herder in the middle of the desert is definitely a first for me. Yeah, I mean, look, he's returned to his roots. I'm sure he's probably enjoying that more. I don't think the cooking life was for him.

[Chris Willx]

All right. Okay. So you're a life coach now as well.

[Craig Jones]

Modern wisdom. That's all we're here for.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah, well, it's a hard. It's a hard pivot. But I wonder how many people would sign up to be life coached by you. Could you imagine what the sort of outcomes of clients that were life coached by you would be?

[Craig Jones]

Probably a few large divorce settlements, I'd imagine, huh?

[Chris Willx]

Yeah. All right. Who got arrested in Bali? What was that like?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, I mean, like, honestly, I don't know how high. I haven't ended up in a prison really, in some of these travels.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah, you're kind of like you've been dodging very effectively. It's impressive.

[Craig Jones]

The Teflon don, you know, we're getting to airport security. Obviously, I look. I don't look suspicious at all. That's what I like to think, you know, but we've. I've managed to dodge it, but, yeah, I know. Tons of people, tons of British guys getting popped. Even recently in Dubai, two kids just.

[Chris Willx]

Got popped, the clothing company owners. Right. For having this big party going on. A friend's girlfriend was someone who's just in the room next door or like nearby. It's like if you're at a party and there's somebody that has drugs, it's like, ah, we'll just lock you up for two weeks and we'll see what's going on here. So not good. Really, really, really not good.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, yeah. You got to be careful in some of these countries, partying.

[Chris Willx]

That's the problem with. I wonder whether it's the same with Aussies, but I certainly know that British people have this, like, disregard a lot of the time for the laws abroad. It's weird because British people are very orderly. Like, if you've ever driven in the uk, you'll notice if I'm in front of you and I indicate I get your lane, like, you back off. As opposed to in America, you guys protect the lane that you're. You actively speed up to not allow that person to get in. It's very territorial.

[Craig Jones]

They defend the lane. Like the southern border. Basically.

[Chris Willx]

Correct. Yeah. Well, now. Yeah. Whereas the British defend the lane, like the southern border a year ago.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah.

[Chris Willx]

So very, very opened up. So in some way, 97%, I think, compliance with the first COVID vaccine, like 90% with the second one. So quite a rule following the type nation, apart from when we leave and we go elsewhere and the sort of party Culture. I remember I was at. Fuck, I can't remember the name of the hotel. It's during COVID So he'd fled the uk. Me and a friend had fled the UK because another lockdown was coming and we weren't going to be able to fly anywhere. And we just went to Dubai and we were watching MK play a rooftop pool thing in Dubai. Everybody there was British because they'd all done the same thing that we'd done and fled the uk. And you think if there's one place you really don't want to be caught with drugs, it's Dubai. I mean, also maybe Bali and Thailand and stuff like that, but you really don't. They do not about. And it was just this classic sort of Larry British culture, passing bags around, leaving them out on the table. I think, you know, bottle of Gray Goose, bottle of Belvedere, bottle of like unpronounceable pink fucking like powder.

[Craig Jones]

What was the name of this place? So I can avoid it? Some island, the uae.

[Chris Willx]

I honestly can't remember what it was called, but I just remember thinking this is during fucking lockdown. So supposed to be social distancing. There was supposed to be masking, like, okay, do you get through the new rules that you can maybe say are a little bit silly, but then you get to the ones where you go, they've been around for a long time and they're going to fuck you up. And yeah, British people, but are Aussies like that? Are they kind of still go degen. Disregard the laws abroad mode?

[Craig Jones]

I would say for sure. Yeah. We're pretty reckless as well. Definitely take some chances. I for one.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah. Okay. I'm aware that you might be an. I was assuming that you weren't Representative.

[Craig Jones]

I think pretty representative. Yeah.

[Chris Willx]

All right. Okay. This is just normal. Yeah. Right. You're not anything different. You're just Australian normal.

[Craig Jones]

Bergen culture. Yeah.

[Chris Willx]

Okay. All right, cool. What about this school in Peru that you're building?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. So again with the Guardian program, who's running these schools around the world for kids? We're building one in Peru because we visited. I wish I could remember the name of the city, but it's basically a surf spot. Peru has some of the best surfing in the world. So it's kind of like a. A bit of a tourist spot. So there's a lot of foreign tourists coming in, having a good time party and hitting the bars and hitting the surf spots. And it's created a culture of like a lot of kids dealing drugs in the poverty stricken areas around it. So Where? I know it sounds a bit hypocritical, but we're building a school down there. They basically reach capacity as it is. So we're trying to build a bigger facility for them to expand so they can take in more kids. But, like, some. I mean, Peru, the poverty was really quite severe, quite shocking. I think most people just go there, visit Machu Picchu, Lima, get out of there. But we went up to the northwest, and, yeah, the poverty was real bad, like lack of clean drinking water, lack of opportunities. So through Jiu Jitsu, teaching the kids discipline and they teach them English, provide them clean drinking water. The new facility will provide them food as well. Hopefully can at least make a difference within that little city.

[Chris Willx]

What's driving this other than tax incentives?

[Craig Jones]

What's balancing the moral.

[Chris Willx]

Oh, this is karmic retribution.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah.

[Chris Willx]

Okay.

[Craig Jones]

Basically, yeah.

[Chris Willx]

After you've done what you've done to Gabby Garcia, you feel like you need to repay the world.

[Craig Jones]

I would say I was the victim of the Gabby Garcia thing, to truth be told. But there have been many victims of Gabby Garcia, as I've told you off camera. But, yeah, I mean, it does feel good to do. To make a change like that influence. And I'm trying to, like, change the narrative a bit on charity, because most of the time, people tune in to watch some sort of charity documentary. It's almost like sadness porn or something, you know what I mean? Where it's.

[Chris Willx]

And then the tugging at the heartstrings, making you feel bad. Here's some guilt.

[Craig Jones]

And then there's the guy that's like almost the savior, too good to be true type character. So I'm trying to balance it out by at least providing some entertainment value, some realness, and most importantly, going to these areas where kids are selling drugs and buying those drugs so that they don't have.

[Chris Willx]

Oh, that's where the money goes.

[Craig Jones]

That. Yeah. That is actually tax deduction, I believe.

[Chris Willx]

Right. To reinvest into the local community.

[Craig Jones]

The community.

[Chris Willx]

Okay.

[Craig Jones]

And improving exports.

[Chris Willx]

Okay, good. Very good. What is it when you're sort of building these places, who's actually on the ground doing it? You got to find some fixer, local person to actually operate all this stuff. He's not going to leave sat there.

[Craig Jones]

I wish I could. So does his family. But, yeah, obviously, as you know, I'm an incredible judge of character, and I've never made any mistakes hiring or associating with people in the past. So it is very difficult. Luckily, guardian really chooses the right person because, again, like, you're Running a charity program for kids, you got to be very careful, discerning. You got to be very careful who you put in charge of those kids, you know, so it's like, it's very. I would say that is more difficult than, like, than any other part of the process is finding the right person for the job.

[Chris Willx]

A quick aside. I've been wearing my WHOOP for over five years now, since way before they were a partner on the show. It is the only wearable that I've ever stuck with because it quietly tracks everything that matters. My sleep workouts, my recovery, my. My breathing, my heart rate, and even my steps. And now the brand new Whoop 5.0 is here. Look at this. Sexy. And it's the best version yet. You still got all of the benefits that make Whoop indispensable, but now it is 7% smaller. It's got 14 days of battery life. It's got a heart screener for on demand ECG readings, healthspan to track how your habits affect your pace of aging. And for the ladies, it's got a hormonal insights for personalized cycle and pregnancy guidance. I am a massive, massive fan of whoop. And that is why it's the only wearable I've ever stuck with. Right now you can get the brand new Whoop 5.0 by going to the link in the description below or heading to join.whoop.com Modern Wisdom. That's join.whoop.com ModernWisdom and what would success look like for doing this more?

[Craig Jones]

I mean, even just helping one kid? You know, like, once you go down there, you meet the kids, you sort of like some, obviously some of the kids are really talent, talented, charismatic. And you see them and you think, oh, with a little bit of help, maybe they have a chance to change their life. But on the, on the flip side of that, if kids drop out of the program that you're aware of, that's going to be quite devastating as well.

[Chris Willx]

What about Brazil? You spend some time there?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. So we went to Brazil. We did a clothing release with Street X. And it was basically Brazil themes and which we were basically trying to take some cool photos and videos. So we're trying to recreate the Gracie origin story back in the day where the Gracies would go down. Like, there's a famous video of Hicks and Gracie going to the beach and slapping this dude that had been talking. And then they brought on the beach. Our version of that was to go to the beach, get extremely drunk with the local bartenders. And then have challenge matches against the bartenders. And that was. That was our reincarnation of it. And then the bartender, we were trying to get into the favelas. You know, you want to see. You want to see the favelas? I've heard so much about them. Wild places. So we. I just trusted this bartender. This guy was like, oh, you want to go to favelas? I'll take you drunk. At the time we agreed to do this. Next day, picks us up, takes us into the. One of the favelas, drops us right at the top. And on the way up, we had to stop filming, you know, let her film any of the dudes with guns. You know, they take photos with the guns, despite me asking many, many times. And they have some impressive weaponry up there, even, like RPG launchers to take out police helicopters and stuff. And I remember we get to the top of the hill. He drops us off at the very top. Turn around, there's a guy with a gun, and he's, like, looking at us, and he basically get the. The local bartender introduce us. And then he saw the cauliflower is. And was like, oh, jiu jitsu. Jiu jitsu. And he is like, I competed in the last world championships when he used to be held in Brazil. So we got the free pass from there. And then I realized behind him, this was the motorcycle pickup point for all the drug pickups for people making orders, Right. And he goes, oh, do you want anything? And I was like. I went to say, obviously, yes. And he's like, no, you're a jiu jitsu athlete. Not for you.

[Chris Willx]

He's like, okay, so first off, you were saved by being a BJJ athlete and then disappointed by it too. Yeah, the lord giveth and taketh away.

[Craig Jones]

We were like the ketamine goat herdsmen at that point. You know, we back to our jiu jitsu roots. Yeah, but I mean, we had the free pass. I mean, I think it's. It's a lot safer. And, like, the guys were quite insistent on wanting us to show that the favelas can be safe, you know, because they just have such a bad name. So they're quite appreciative when you show the favelas in a positive light, because it's not. It's not as bad as people think. Like, really, when we were walking around up there, we realized there are safe points. Like, especially this one favela. I forget the name, but it overlooks basically the Rio coastline, and it's like the favelas Have a bad name. Obviously some of them deserve that. But for the most part, the people out there were super cool, super welcoming, super nice.

[Chris Willx]

So this is one of those super narrow streets, rickety, corrugated iron, tin roof type places.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. And you like at the very tip, at the very. Near the very top, I would say there's some, like, clubs and some restaurants that are probably pretty tourist friendly and then. But as you do the walk down, you kind of need someone there with you. So he'd given us this kid that must have been 15 who threw the red shirt over the shoulder, which was the signal to the people above that don't rob these guys, I assume.

[Chris Willx]

No way.

[Craig Jones]

Because we had some expensive camera equipment.

[Chris Willx]

With us, so that's the pass to get through. So now anybody that's got a red shirt thrown over their shoulder walking through a favela, unless they change the color code, in which case that, that means something.

[Craig Jones]

El pretend to be a blood and you're all good, eh?

[Chris Willx]

Wow. So it seems like you've been capturing a lot of the content from this. I haven't seen shit. Tons of favela Brazil. Is there some latent documentary thing coming at some point?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, I mean, we, we have the content, we have a lot of it out there, but I mean, mostly just social media and, you know, like, unfortunately, I would say people like you have ruined the YouTube experience where it used to be, incredible vlogs, cinematography, well, artistic sort of things. And then it's just been taken over by the podcast gods who have gained the algorithm for maximum ad revenue. But yeah, so I mostly use it for socials or photos, things like that. Memories when I struggle to remember them.

[Chris Willx]

What about Venezuela?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, so Venezuela was another interesting destination. Obviously sanctioned country. US citizens can't visit there.

[Chris Willx]

You're not allowed to visit there.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, US citizens are not allowed to.

[Chris Willx]

Visit there because the Venezuelans say that you can't visit there, or the, the American people say that you can't visit there.

[Craig Jones]

I think America's sanctions on Venezuela have caused Venezuela to basically block you. I think there is a path, but it's a very difficult path for US citizens to get into. So just the sheer thought of a country without Americans, I was like, soul, that sounds brilliant. That sounds like a peaceful oasis. So I set up sort of a charity seminar down there and the jiu jitsu scene was actually quite big. So we went down there and pretty heavy experience when you get to the airport and stuff. Like, it's like, how do.

[Chris Willx]

Where did you fly from?

[Craig Jones]

I flied from Medellin, I think it was straight after Medellin. I think I went up to Cartagena again, say hello to some old friends, and then flew straight from Medellin into Venezuela Airport. And I had some guys on the ground that were helping me out. But, like, it's bizarre. Like, the airport security, the immigration part of it is like, obviously all the Venezuelans are going through. And then I'm just standing there alone for two hours while they're using WhatsApp to message the security people to work out whether they want to detain me or not. And I assume they probably looked at my Instagram and thought, this guy's a idiot. He's not going to do any harm. Let him in. And then we went on a bit of an adventure there. We went out to Angel Falls, world's tallest waterfall. Beautiful experience out there. We stayed a lovely resort, taken care of pretty damn well. The only thing is that obviously my friends and family, Venezuela is typically a pretty dangerous country. 10, I think 10 million people fleet it over the last X amount of time. I see a lot of Venezuelan immigrants getting around and it has a bad reputation. So when I went to Angel Falls, I had already smashed my phone in a drunk incident. And I remember being like, oh, iPhones are waterproof. So we're walking through waterfalls and shit. And I just start. I was starting to film. Phone died. And I'm like, I was off the grid for three days with people just not knowing where I was, if I was okay. What happened? I think I got an SOS signal out there at some point to say everything was all good. And then my cameraman met me at a later date in Venezuela and were able to get basically communication with the outside reacquainted.

[Chris Willx]

I imagine that was finally bliss for you, Seth, to have been liberated from having to look after him for three days. I'm sorry, I was getting calls from someone else. Oh, I see.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, we. We had. We had a companion send out SOS signals. I mean, that I was okay. Seth had to get me a new phone and get it hand delivered to me, I think at a later location. And then again, it was another location. I brought Volkanovsky's coach, Joe Lopez, to.

[Chris Willx]

You brought him to Venezuela.

[Craig Jones]

Brought him to Venezuela.

[Chris Willx]

Fantastic.

[Craig Jones]

And he, again, any excuse for him to use his Spanish on unsuspecting women. That is like the bat signal for him. He will arrive. And yeah, we had a bit of a blowout. The last night was good.

[Chris Willx]

What's Venezuela like generally?

[Craig Jones]

I mean, honestly, one of the most Beautiful, if not the most beautiful country I've ever seen in my life. Incredible. Angel Falls area, amazing at the north along the coastline there. Some of the most beautiful coastline in the world. I think it's a tragedy that it doesn't have a tourism industry for Americans, because it's. Right. It's so close. But, yeah, I would say, and I'm not just saying this to offend Americans that can't visit there, but it is at the most beautiful country I've ever been to.

[Chris Willx]

So you were allowed. Was that because you would have come back into America with a Venezuela stamp on your passport, presumably, yeah.

[Craig Jones]

And this is. You know what's funny is I got cleared for global entry. I don't know how. Like, if you looked at my pub. Ukraine, Venezuela. Like I should. Whatever it is that the test, it's not working because I got past the initial stage, but I had to have the interview, and I just left Colombia and Venezuela, and they forced me to do the interview at that border entry. And the guy was like, oh, yeah, pass. And I was like, you think you'd leave a sanctioned country? I'm really testing the limits. I do have a tattoo reveal for you.

[Chris Willx]

You've got a tattoo reveal?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. I'm really testing the limits of US Deportation here.

[Chris Willx]

Okay.

[Craig Jones]

And really, it's based on the idea that really, there is an avenue out there for an all expenses paid trip to the beautiful country of El Salvador, and it just comes at the small price of a tattoo.

[Chris Willx]

Just stand up for a second for me. Put that.

[Craig Jones]

Oh, you want me to get it out? Marvel at the size of the quad too. Thank you, Pierce. You got the connections, though. If I get sent out, Tim Kendi.

[Chris Willx]

To come and fix you.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, well, I mean, we need to pull in some government favors when that deportation, when they come for me.

[Chris Willx]

So You've got an MS.13 tattoo.

[Craig Jones]

I know. It was a bold choice. We were just down in Mexico the other day, and I thought it'd be a funny idea.

[Chris Willx]

And then you got your feet tattooed.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, that was a mistake. Honestly. Here's was my vision, Right. In jiu jitsu, people often criticize guard pullers. People that scoot on their butt along the ground, right? And they'll always do this. Stand up. Stand up like you're a man. If you can wrestle, Right? So then I had the idea that, oh, lay flat on my back, it says you. I stole this tattoo idea off a guy that trains at scrappy MMA and just didn't credit him at all.

[Chris Willx]

But he had it as Well, I.

[Craig Jones]

Was waiting to share at Scrappy, where Jack Della trains, and this guy comes up to me in the hallway and goes, check this out. And I was like, that's genius. So when I was in Perth, I was like, I could get the same tattoo that was one of the most painful experiences of my entire life. And it didn't heal. It was the dumbest idea ever. Jack Dallas fighting for the belt. And I'm like, oh, it'll get my feet tattooed. So then I had to train with him for his title while my feet were in excruciating pain healing. Obviously, it's a bad spot. Usually the tattoo's the worst part. This was like. The tattoo was very bad, but the healing process was significantly worse.

[Chris Willx]

Why?

[Craig Jones]

We're just walking on it all the time. You know, it's like, if you can't.

[Chris Willx]

Rest and you're on mats and it's ripping it back up.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. And I'm not going to be like, oh, sorry, Jack, I can't help you prepare because I'm a idiot. You know what I mean?

[Chris Willx]

I got two stupid tattoos.

[Craig Jones]

Yes. I just kept taping it up, putting socks on and training.

[Chris Willx]

I've been debilitated by seven letters.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. That's one of the. One of the worst decisions of my life. And that says a lot.

[Chris Willx]

Well, I mean, the MS.13 one is yet to be.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, we'll see how that goes. Breaking news first. Australian man in El Salvadorian prison as.

[Chris Willx]

A part of MS.13.

[Craig Jones]

I got it in Mexico, too, which I was a bit. I was in Nuevo Laredo, which is not the safest place. And I remember being like, should I be getting another gang's tattoo in Mexico? But the guy thought it was hilarious. So we're good.

[Chris Willx]

Okay. What's the nomadic life like for you? It seems like you like it. The. I get brief windows when you're back in Austin for two days to wash your pants and then turn around and go back again. What's sort of what's the best and what's the worst about it? What's good and what's bad?

[Craig Jones]

I mean, I don't know. I just get bored in a place. Like, I've been in a place too long. I just get a bit stir crazy. Want to go somewhere else? Someone sends me a message there's an opportunity, an adventure. I like the idea of an adventure. Maybe it's a midlife crisis, I don't know. But I do love living out of a suitcase and just being out of travel. I think it's a totally different experience. If you're staying at hostels, I think that's the vision people have living out of a suitcase, doing a European backpacking trip or South American backpack. Yeah. But if you can afford a semi decent hotel, it's actually. It's not too bad.

[Chris Willx]

And what's the worst parts about it? What are the things that you don't.

[Craig Jones]

Like carrying a massive suitcase around the entire time? That's where. That's where Seth, again, the personal assistant, comes in. He meets me in destinations for wardrobe changes and Xanax resupplies. That's basically keeps me. Keeps me going. It's hard to backpack for all climates, you know, hard to fit a gay cowboy hat in there, too.

[Chris Willx]

That's true. That's true. What's happening with CGI2? We're not far off now.

[Craig Jones]

CGI2 is back. August 3031 in Vegas. Thomas and Mack Event Center. This time, we're mixing it up. I think the first event we won that battle, we proved sort of the jiu jitsu can be exciting. Might have to fight a woman to do it, but it can be. That's what lured you in. You heard about me finding a woman. You were like, I'm there.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah, Well, I got. It's weird because I got all of this inspiration from an Ethiopian tribe about how you should treat women and then thought, right, I'm going to get to see this play out on the big screen.

[Craig Jones]

Honestly, the worst thought I had when I saw, like, I saw the women getting whipped was really like, I want to be like, guys, we can do this. Emotionally. I was going to teach gaslighting. I was like, save your shoulders. You need stem cells in Columbia. But yeah, CGI2 will be a teams event. So the most exciting event I've ever participated in was a Japanese event called Quintet. Which did they make it up?

[Chris Willx]

Was Quinn, who made up Quintet as.

[Craig Jones]

A Kazushi Sakuraba, famous Japanese MMA fighter. And it was his contribution to grappling. And I mean, it's. It's sort of a iteration of a. Like a wrestling meet where guys are fighting off in different divisions. But it had the last man standing sort of dynamic to it. And I didn't just want to do CGI one. Same format again. Obviously, we gave away $2 million. Expensive. I thought, how can we cheapen out a bit on this event? I was like, all right, teams event, $1 million prize ball. Because really, a lot of people, CGI one sort of showed who the two best athletes in the world were. And there's a lot of contention about really who's the best team in the world. So I was like, let's try and do real teams. You pick your five best guys, five sort of ADCC Olympic divisions. And we'll do a last man standing style event. And we're going to add in. We're obviously heavily inspired by quintet. QUINTET would ban heel hooks. MMA fighters are terrified of leg locks. I don't know why they always do that. So leg locks are allowed for us. And we're borrowing obviously from wrestling. So Royal Rumble style entries, entrances. So it's basically like when we do quintet, the team lineup would already be predetermined. So you kind of like last man saying, like, you submit your opponent, you can't. You know who's next. We're gonna leave that a mystery. So the coach on the sideline can basically be like, his guy gets submitted, he's like, oh, send in this guy.

[Chris Willx]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Jones]

And it's gonna be like, it's gonna be a big impact for the crowd to be like, oh, my God, who's going next? Yeah.

[Chris Willx]

Oh, that's cool. So it's one person from each weight category.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. So, like, we'll put basically the ADCC weight division. It's like you take your five best guys, we take our five best guys, and we'll see it. So it'll be eight teams match up over two days. I'll be competing as well. Unfortunately, I'll be facing a character that somewhat resembles Gabby Garcia, I would say, but that would be Gable Stevenson.

[Chris Willx]

Who's this guy that you're wrestling?

[Craig Jones]

Olympic gold medal wrestler, American wrestler. He would be 125 kilos. Or for the unintelligent 265 pounds, massive size discrepancy. I think. I think I'm weighing like, man, real light right now. It's been a tumultuous couple of months. You know, we've skipped a few months.

[Chris Willx]

On a desiccated diet.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, I mean, part of that is handicapping myself because I am facing a wrestler. And wrestlers, all they have is takedowns. Once it hits the floor, they have no idea what the going on. And we basically, we've tried to prove that. When Volkanovsky out grappled Islam Makhachev and Jack Della out grappling Bilal Muhammad Australian jiu jitsu trumps all forms of wrestling. We've found the. The cure, the antidote. So really, for me, I'm going to face off against this giant, absolute, giant human being who only has wrestling. And what's the rule set three by five minute rounds.

[Chris Willx]

Okay.

[Craig Jones]

One minute break in between all submissions. Legal. He's gone into a career in MMA in the future, so.

[Chris Willx]

Oh, he's pivoting.

[Craig Jones]

He's pivoting. Yeah.

[Chris Willx]

Okay.

[Craig Jones]

So it should be, should be a fun one if my spine doesn't get broken. I'm really testing the boundaries of insulting his lifelong work of wrestling, tearing apart wrestling, and some slight racial innuendo jokes in there as well. So, like, I'm scared. I'm scared he's going to snap one of these days and actually do some damage to me.

[Chris Willx]

He seems like a good sport.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, he has been an excellent sport so far. We are, we're going to release it soon. But we just recreated the Dirty Dancing scene together. Me lifting him, obviously.

[Chris Willx]

This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Look, you're not going into business to learn how to code or build a website or do backend inventory management. Shopify takes all of that off your hands and allows you to focus on the job that you came here to do, which is designing and selling an awesome product. Shopify powers 10% of all e commerce companies in the US they are the driving force behind Gymshark and Skims and Aloe Vera and Nutonic. And that is why I've partnered with them. Because when it comes to converting browsers into buyers, they're best in class. Their checkout is 36% better on average compared with other leading commerce platforms. And with shop pay, you can boost your conversions by up to 50%. You can upgrade your business and get the same checkout that we use at Nutonic with Shopify by going to the link in the description below and signing up for a $1 per month trial period. Or by heading to shopify.commodernwisdom all lowercase. That's shopify.commodern wisdom to upgrade your selling today. Yeah, I've heard that you fixed the UFC's wrestling problem. I heard that you've solved it.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, everyone was. UFC's on the decline. Too many boring ass wrestlers taking over the divisions. So UFC basically called me and they said, hey, like, can you help us out? Can you help Jack Della beat Bal Muhammad? And we just fixed his wrestling overnight. So now we've got exciting strikers taking the belts.

[Chris Willx]

What's the strategy? How do you beat wrestling?

[Craig Jones]

I mean, first of all, you're not going to have the most intelligent human being in the sport of wrestling, like some of us articulate high social skills people in jiu jitsu, you know, What I mean, it's basically jocks versus autistic people. We're going to win the war, you know what I mean? And really, it's just, they have the takedown, they have the initiation, but they have no follow up. They're confused. They, they, it's like a dog chasing a car. They don't know what to do once they get it in wrestling. They get the pin, it's over, the referee saves them, they stand back up. That's where Jiu jitsu takes over. So it's a huge hole in their game. We'll forget about American folk style wrestling completely and we'll just talk about the broader type of wrestling. But yeah, for me, it's not a big problem. Get taken down. That's what we take over.

[Chris Willx]

Sit down. So is sitting down a solution?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the joke of the sport. Imagine if you spent your whole life dedicated to an art where the goal was to take the other person down, but you never spent any time, thought or effort into thinking what you'd do if the fight continued on the ground. That's the most funny, humiliating thing to me about the sport of wrestling.

[Chris Willx]

So how do you think a fight with Gable Steveson is going to go? Like, just roll the clock forward for.

[Craig Jones]

Me, Roll the clock forward again. Handicapping myself, I've decided to not train for this match. Just like I didn't train for the Gabby Garcia match. Show the same level of respect for both Goliath opponents there. And really, I'm just going to come out, sit down, he's going to come forward. Well, first of all, he's going to just be like, if he could read, he'd be angry, you know what I mean? But he's a wrestler, so you're going to see that feat. He's going to be trying to read it, bit confused, maybe a bit aroused, comes forward and gets leg locked straight away. That's basically my vision and I'll try and show some mercy here. You know, like, we've done a lot of damage this year to wrestling, Americans in general as well, so maybe we let him out of a few, but we'll definitely, we'll definitely take him out.

[Chris Willx]

But he's 265 pounds. How heavy does he need to be before it becomes hard for you to do as a wrestler?

[Craig Jones]

Well, that's, I mean, that's part of the training protocol. You know, we're finding heavier and heavier dating partners to fill the experience of being under such a heavy creature. And I know you've pointed me in the right direction at some bars in Austin where we'd find those.

[Chris Willx]

And Gable is just the next iteration of this.

[Craig Jones]

But yeah, basically he's like a giant athletic woman that can do handstand backflips. He can do some athletic maneuvers. So unless he. Unless he, in the midst of trying to read for the first time, falls over.

[Chris Willx]

All right, I see. So your. Your feet tattoos are an attempt to try and confuse people.

[Craig Jones]

To confuse him. Yeah.

[Chris Willx]

Right. Not only. So it insults the people that can read and confuses the ones that can't.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. Little known fact, a lot of wrestlers are dyslexic.

[Chris Willx]

Okay. Does that change the way that they wrestle?

[Craig Jones]

I don't know. But the feet will definitely throw out Spanner in the works for him, I think.

[Chris Willx]

What was the fallout from ADCC around? Because presumably that happens every two years.

[Craig Jones]

Every two years.

[Chris Willx]

So that's not going to be a. A competition this time around. So it'll be easier to get more teams, more people, more spectators, etc.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. So like last year, we went head to head. We were mildly offended by petty things the owner said, so we decided to host an event the same day on someone else's, with someone else's money, which is always the best tactic, as you know, at Nutonic. But really the fallout was, I think we decisively won. But this is a good opportunity, actually. ADCC is on Flow Grappling and I have just signed, I would say, and it's not saying much, the most lucrative contract in Grappling history to now join forces and essentially take over Flow Grappling. So it's kind of a corporate takeover. So Flow Grappling hosted adcc. They had the subscribers. I went on a malicious onslaught of an attack against adcc, and as a result, Flow Grappling as well, we tore them down to a point of vulnerability that now the only person they could call for help was me. Essentially a corporate takeover. And now they've basically given me the reins to save Grappling.

[Chris Willx]

So what have they done? What's the deal?

[Craig Jones]

I can't talk too much about it. Flow grappling usually is a. Like, it's a streaming platform to host events and original content. CJ, I will remain free on YouTube. I mean, I'm basically gonna run the operation now. We're gonna fix the damage we did. We're gonna try and get the fan base back.

[Chris Willx]

Okay. You've. You've caused the problem and now you're selling them the cure.

[Craig Jones]

Exactly. Sounds like my dating life as well. Really?

[Chris Willx]

But that's the gaslighting coming back in.

[Craig Jones]

The gaslighting come back. Yeah. No, but we're working. We're working together with Flow now, you know, because they're big enterprises trying to enter the sport of grappling, and they're trying to lock athletes down to exclusive contracts again. Like, they're going to try to monopolize the sport of grappling and grapplers, where there's barely $3 to throw together as it is. If this big organization were to monopolize the sport of grappling, the athletes themselves would lose the leverage for negotiations and getting their true value from the different events out there. Like, obviously, we've got one championship as well. The big three would be one championship. Flow Grappling and UFC fight Pass. Right. So if one of these were to take over completely and create a monopoly, then they would not have any incentive to pay the athletes more.

[Chris Willx]

You're able to negotiate. Where else are you going to go?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. Or even put more effort into the spectacle of grappling. Like, my thoughts are, if fake grappling is one of the most entertaining things in the world, wwe, why can real grappling not be that? And I believe that's the root of professional wrestling, was they used to actually have real matches, but it was too boring for the fans to watch, so they decided to have real matches behind the scenes, and then the winner of that would determine the winner of the professional show.

[Chris Willx]

No way.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. And so we. We're trying to steal. I want to steal the theatrics, obviously. Vince McMahon, personal hero of mine. I'm really trying to steal what he did for professional wrestling minus his personal life, and bring that to the sport of jiu jitsu. And I think if we borrow from professional wrestling with a spectacle, even in the history of mma, like in Japan, they used to have an event called Pride. Pride ultimately got shut down because of yakuza connections, but they used to put on an incredible spectacle of an event. They used to put a lot of effort into the production, into creative ideas to hype an event. So me and the promoter, being the promoter of this event, I'm trying to push the envelope in creating excitement in the event. And I'm worried that if any one of these organizations were to get a monopoly, well, then there's really no. This is. There's no reason for them to push the envelope on the events athlete pay, because they've already controlled the market.

[Chris Willx]

What else can be done to make grappling more exciting?

[Craig Jones]

I mean, here's the thing, anything's exciting if there's a storyline, you know, like, so the more we invest in the story that whether it's fake or real, the more we get people invested in each of the individual athletes or the teams or whatever, the more excited you are going to be to watch it take place. Like, there's been some boring MMA fights and boxing fights out there, but the hype has been so good that even though even when you're watching the live event, you're sort of on the edge of your seat. So as long as we invest in the storyline and build up the event, CGI had a CGI one had a huge benefit because it was. The story was basically CJI versus adcc. So we created this division and people were invested in picking a side. So we need to leverage storylines like that to invest people's time and energy into actually watching the event, whether the match is exciting or not.

[Chris Willx]

Mm. Yeah. Look, I enjoyed some of the fights at cgi. I think one of the issues that you have, the art forms are subtle, that for a Muggle like me to fully be able to understand the nuance of exactly what's going on, this is where actually being within earshot of the commentators made it way easier because they were able to translate for me what was going on. You can tell when people are on their feet and they're spinning around. There's like, you know, Takit Rotolo, that fight was fucking spectacular. Right? Like an I total idiot normal person. Like, I can tell there's something exciting going on here, but I do wonder what. And I think that you guys helped with slanted walls, with tighter time limits, with, you know, different modes of scoring. I think that you spoke about this last year, that that helps to incentivize people to not fight in a more boring manner, to make. Make it more of a spectator friendly event.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. And really, I mean, like, that would be one angle of really why I'm trying to fight these exclusive contracts is like Taka versus Cade Rotola is one of the most exciting matches in history. If both these guys get locked down to exclusive contracts, we may never see that rematch. But in terms of making grappling exciting, yeah, that is a tall order to do. But I believe the quintet format is what will make it exciting. The last man standing style where we have teams. Right. Because if there's inactivity in Jiu jitsu, it's boring when nothing's happening, it's boring. However, when we're imagine like, because it's going to be different Weight divisions. Imagine it's Nikki Rod versus a smaller guy like Fabricio Andre. So there's a massive weight discrepancy. But when you're taking the weight of the team on your shoulders as that smaller guy, suddenly him surviving, simply surviving against a bigger opponent now becomes exciting. So I think we can. What Sakuraba did that make quintet so exciting is you can create a style of rules that somewhat makes the boring parts exciting. Just survival might mean that your team wins this series. So we're trying to reinvent sort of how grappling's viewed to even make those boring parts exciting.

[Chris Willx]

Who are going to be the teams?

[Craig Jones]

So we've got ATOs, New Wave, 10th Planet B team, Pedego. And then we decided just due to the difficulty, like there's a lot of teams out there, but they might not be able to fill five divisions, we decided to add in three region based teams. So the Americas, Australia and Asia and Europe and the uk. So we'll sort of those will be filled with region based guys because it was about making sure that we get all the good athletes in there. Because if a lot of teams like say a classic example would be Levi, who made it to the final against Blue Guy.

[Chris Willx]

Blue Hair.

[Craig Jones]

The blue hair guy against Kadratola last year. He trains at my old team. Absolute mma. Be tough for them to put in five guys. So we're like, well, we don't want to lose a guy like Levi. So we're going to have region based teams. And then.

[Chris Willx]

Oh, that's cool. So you'll have this sort of Avengers assemble of people that aren't usually together.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Willx]

Maybe even fought against each other. May even be from rival gyms.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So they have to come together and basically take on these powerhouse team names. And then one other thing we threw in there was kind of like this idea of a wild card because really there were maybe two or three teams in the world that would have five contenders at each weight division. So we said to each team, listen, we need four of your guys to be authentic members of your team, but you can pull in a wild card. So it's like we're still keeping to the team versus team nature. Some of it's region based, but also you can pull in a wild card. And we exploited that fully by.

[Chris Willx]

Who's your wild card?

[Craig Jones]

Victor Hugo, who's one of the biggest, best guys in the sport today? So we exploited that. We exploited that. I mean, we told all coaches out there early that, hey, you can pull in a wild card. We just got ahead of them. We jumped on Victor straight away.

[Chris Willx]

Right. I saw a photo of you and John Danaher. Talk me through that. Meeting of the minds.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. So we had our falling out. We had the Danaher death squad, which I jumped aboard sort of late to the party, which was Eddie Cummings, Gary Tonin, Gordon Ryan, Nikki. Ryan, Nikki, Rod. I jumped in. I tore that team apart piece by piece from the inside, turning everyone against each other to exploit that into an opportunity to create the B team, which we have here today. And that's obviously left a bad taste in John Danaher's mouth. But in the effort of getting them in the event, because for CGI one, they supported adcc, instead, they were going after the legacy medals. And they did very good at adcc. I will say it was a bit of an easy adcc. We took most of the good guys, but we've managed to put our differences aside for the greater good. So New Wave will be submitting a team. Me and Gordon, on the other hand, have not put our differences aside. But John Danaher is El Jefe. He's the boss over there. So me and him have reconnected.

[Chris Willx]

What was that like? Getting to chat to him for the first time in a while.

[Craig Jones]

That was good. I've ran into him a couple times. We never had a full conversation, but, yeah, it was definitely good to make the past the past. You know what I mean? Like, part of that conversation was, Craig, you took things a little too far. I was like, I'm guilty of around sometimes, you know? But when we had the conversation, yeah, he. We're friends again for sure.

[Chris Willx]

What do you think's the likelihood of Gordon turning up and fighting at cgi?

[Craig Jones]

I mean, I've got a special cuck chair waiting for him there in the audience. So, like, I think that's. That's gonna pull him in, you know, that's gonna cool him. That's.

[Chris Willx]

You've just made it. However likely it was, I think you've just made it slightly less likely the.

[Craig Jones]

The porcelain throne will be there waiting for him.

[Chris Willx]

I'm gonna guess that you think that it's quite unlikely that it's gonna happen.

[Craig Jones]

Then I think you'll be there. Hey, I think ultimately, as much as you hate me, you should love your teammates more. And he is a great team member, great training partner, in my opinion, horrible human being. But in an effort to support his training partners, I imagine he'll want to give them the best opportunity to win and his presence and coaching ability.

[Chris Willx]

But not competing.

[Craig Jones]

Not competing.

[Chris Willx]

You don't think that he would compete.

[Craig Jones]

As far as I know, he's never going to compete again. Yeah. And although I don't like the guy, a great competitor, Drew. And the fans, sad to see him leave. And although I persistently harassed and bullied his teammate, Nicholas Meragali, who got, who competed ADCC ultimately lost. He got injured in the process of losing. It is sad to lose two of those guys. This sport. Nicholas Mergale's shoulder injury is going to keep him out for quite a long period of time.

[Chris Willx]

What did he have happened to.

[Craig Jones]

So after. After posting many pictures saying he's going to be the champion, he's going to win double gold, attacking everyone else, criticizing everyone else. He got defeated by a blue belt. Was it a blue belt? Actually take that back cut. He got defeated by a purple belt, but in the process of the. The hip toss, he posted his arm on the ground, destroyed everything in his shoulder. Really, really bad injury. I think unfortunately a couple of the surgeries. Difficult thing to come back from. Might need a trip to Columbia with some stem cells.

[Chris Willx]

But yeah, yeah, yeah, the devil's breath.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, we could all use some devil's breath from time to time. But really, yeah, he's out for a while too, so we can't have him in the next cgi. And I mean most of the, most of his theatrics, you know, like I just like first of all, I picking on Marigali because the English is second language. He's coming in unequipped. Gordon, easy target. Most American human being on earth, you know what I mean, with the banter. So it is sad to lose them. Not just from the banter perspective and the insult perspective, but they are great athletes and it would have been great to have them participate. And people, people think I have a vendetta. I'm vindictive. There's only, and I won't say his name. There's only one person that can't compete in CGI too. But I don't give a what you've said about me, anything. Go for kiss the ring, Kiss a few things and we'll put you in the event.

[Chris Willx]

What is the sort of future ambition for cji? Like what would be a great place for it to come into land? More money, bigger brackets, more viewership. Like, where are you trying to end up?

[Craig Jones]

Where do we want to end up? I mean, my goal was just to grow the sport, you know what I mean? Like, I put so much effort into this sport. I've humiliated myself, I've been injured, I'VE wasted my life on Jiu jitsu mats talking to people that have. Can't hold a conversation. So I want this to amount to something. So I failed as an athlete. So the pivot would be as a promoter. And we've had, we had some enemies that have now become friends. For the first event, we have some, I wouldn't say enemies, but some big challenges coming up for the second event in terms of, I think I contributed to the sport of Jiu Jitsu in a way that brought so much attention and eyes to that one competition that now we've got some sharks circling, trying to take it over and monopolize it. So for me now it's kind of a battle to make sure that we don't end up being monopolized and just some other product on the shelf. So really it's like a, for me now, it's to ensure that there's a viable event that doesn't have exclusive contracts, that just wants the best athletes in the world to participate, put on a spectacle, exciting sell out for the fans and that they have that alternative.

[Chris Willx]

But surely there's only. So there's going to be what, five people that win ultimately, which means that there's going to be 40 people that don't win or whatever, or 35 people that don't win. So how are the 35 going to keep taking over? Is it that while there's a lot of exposure at this sort of an event, you can monetize on the back.

[Craig Jones]

Of this, me being the man that's never won anything, I would say losing is just a marketing pivot. You know, it's how you. It's not, it's not winning or losing that matters, it's how you lose, how you sell that loss. So really, I mean, obviously great opportunity for exposure. I don't want to just be talking about we're paying them an exposure, but everyone, last year we paid everyone $10,001 to show up. This year, $10,002 to show up. So for the athletes, that sadly is a significant amount of money. For a lot of them, Jiu Jitsu is like a top heavy payment structure. But there are organizations out there that will overcompensate the top of the bill and severely underpay the bottom part. So really like, for me, it's like protecting the next generation of athletes that might get caught up in the allure of being attached to big brands or sorry, big organizations and let that blind them from what Jiu Jitsu really is and how different other sports and we have a opportunity here to kind of prevent it being monopolized.

[Chris Willx]

Isn't it interesting that a flagrant personal vanity project has now become some stalwart, like, protective fortress against big business coming in, ruining a sport?

[Craig Jones]

I mean, that's the thing, really. It's like everything I do is completely self interest, self interested, selfish, and for my own benefit. But when it comes to a talk show, we can sell it anywhere we.

[Chris Willx]

Want to repurpose that. Well, like you say, you know, it's not really what you're doing or why you're doing it, it's why you say you're doing it and whether or not people believe it.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. Which is. I might pivot into politics too. Run against it.

[Chris Willx]

I only found out about Greg Souders recently. He seems like an interesting guy. What do you know about him?

[Craig Jones]

Interesting character. Yeah. He's the coach of the Misfits Team for America, so he's putting together an American squad. So, like, I mean, I haven't gone too much into this. It's a difficult conversation to listen to, you know, people talking about different learning models in Jiu Jitsu. But, yeah, I believe, from my understanding, his thought process is that you don't need to be just doing static, repetitive drilling and understand and like being taught techniques. He's sort of given the credence over to the people's ability to solve problems themselves with through the positional sparring. So, I mean, I don't think. I think the way. Just like we did with CJ1, the way we sell is to create division and create size for people to choose on, choose to be on. And a lot of hipsters will choose to be on the unorthodox side of things. So it's like, I think basically a balance of the two is usually the best approach here. But I believe his persistence in his argument is making people reevaluate how they teach. So I think ultimately he's a good influence on the sport.

[Chris Willx]

Is there too much? You know, you're looking at somebody who has done a total of one session of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in his life. But from a lot of my friends, it seems like a lot of time is spent drilling, sort of carefully deconstructing moves, and then slowly sort of building those back up. Is there a sort of tactical training hole in the world of most Brazilian Jiu Jitsu coaching at the moment?

[Craig Jones]

Yeah, I would say that most Jiu Jitsu coaches aren't actually coaches, they're just instructors. They show moves. Whereas a coach would be something Different. That's something I sort of realized being involved in MMA camps is that, like, a coach doesn't necessarily need to be better than the person they're training. And Jiu Jitsu has a. This historical thought process where the better the competitor was, they assume that he's going to be a better instructor or coach for them. And I think that's sort of like a bit of a fallacy where, like, some of the best guys teaching boxing, even wrestling, weren't necessarily the best competitors, but they have a great way to break things down. John Danner would be one of the best coaches ever. No history of Jiu jitsu competition. So I think that's a massive flaw in the sport of Jiu jitsu. But I personally would say that, like, in the early stages, you need. You need to understand those moves, you need to be taught those moves. And then ultimately, as we get to the higher level, I believe problem solving for yourself is much better. Because if I give you the answer, quite often, I think people forget it. But if I create a situation in which you figure out a solution, you remember it. And I always say to guys, I'm like, look at the people leading this sport and how dumb we are. They can. If they can figure it out, you can figure it out. You know what I mean? Like, come to me with a. A more in depth question than, like, how do I escape side control? You know, give me exact circumstances in which I can give you guidance or set you on the right path.

[Chris Willx]

What have you learned from all of the time that you've cornered in the ufc? How's that sort of informed the way that you look at coaching generally and sort of the world of fighting?

[Craig Jones]

I mean, all, all competition has an element of performance anxiety, but any combat sport with strikes, I think adds a severe element of risk. Traumatic brain injury, right? So for me, the stakes are just that much higher. So when you're dealing with an athlete in those circumstances, you really do have to be very calculated and thoughtful about how you approach coaching them, and you really have to be careful about how you build confidence. Like a lot of people, I'm brought in as the grappling coach in a lot of fights where the goal is that they don't use their grappling. I'm just carrying the bucket, right? But what really I have to try to do is give them the confidence that if it were to hit the floor, that what they're doing is good and that they're going to be okay. And once they have that confidence, when they're on the feet, in those other positions, they aren't as scared to take risks.

[Chris Willx]

Right. Because their fear of the thing that they don't feel the best at happening is stopping them from doing the thing that they are the best at with full commitment.

[Craig Jones]

Exactly. Like Volkanovsky against Islam. It's like most people would have gone into an Islam Makachev fight and been like, at all costs, do not get taken down. Totally different thought process to be like, we're going to play our game. If it hits the ground, we know how to get back up, we're going to get back up. Obviously, no one's Dagestan has this thing about them due to Khabib and so many undefeated fighters. Some of those guys, I will admit, do have some padded records, but they are very talented fighters. Like, you might see a guy with 16 and 0, but he's for eight bus drivers and, and there's not many bus drivers in Dagestan. So we really had to shatter that myth. No one's superhuman. No one's unbeatable. Everyone loses. If you didn't lose, you retired too early. So I think, yeah, just building confidence in the athletes. But I would say the flip side of that is, truth be told, I really don't like cornering MMA fights because you more, you more feel relief that your guy got out of there healthy and okay.

[Chris Willx]

Y.

[Craig Jones]

Because I think one thing MMA doesn't show enough is how badly hurt these guys are after the fight. Quite often the camera will avoid the guy that's unconscious for three minutes. So from like a coach's perspective, from a friend's perspective, when you see your guy unconscious for a concerningly long amount of time, that's, it's. That's. I would say that's a traumatic experience as well. So for me, coaching, you're second guessing everything you know. You don't want to completely change someone's game because it's. You don't have a lot of time to work for them, work with them, but you also want to build. You need to build that confidence with them and stuff. So it's like there's a lot on the line how you approach helping these guys. And to be honest, it's more me doing slight adjustments or giving them confidence by reinforcing what they already do. When it comes to selling instructionals, I will tell people that I taught them everything they know, but truth be told, these guys are already very, very good in what they do. Like, Jack Della is one of the most incredible grapplers I've ever trained. With and he's predominantly known as a striker, so it's like I've learned things from him. So these guys are obviously already very talented athletes.

[Chris Willx]

How do you come to think about confidence in the world of fighting? Like, how can you help to build that up? Or when it comes to yourself, how can you sort of help to embrace.

[Craig Jones]

That more to be more confident? I mean, you just, you need reassurance from people you trust, you know what I mean? Like the, the guy, the, the bluebird at your gym that's hitting on the females in the gym, telling them they're doing a great job, you know what I mean? It's not going to be that you're not going to have that much reassurance. But obviously the more you respect someone's ability to teach or their ability to perform, when they tell you doing something right, that's going to add a hell of a lot of confidence. And I think it's always better to be overconfident than underconfident in any sort of combat area in any sport. I would say more fights have been lost due to underconfidence and overconfidence.

[Chris Willx]

You think that's the case? Well, I mean, walking out with that many people looking at you and so much on the line and it's a good point to make it about striking that I, I would guess that in Brazilian jiu jitsu or sort of grappling stuff, you're never. It can't happen that quickly. There's at least a little bit of lead in you go, okay, I made like two mistakes here. Made one big mistake. But there was a point that this sort of went through as opposed to. It does come out of nowhere when striking is like the fucking Ben Askren Masvidal thing. Like, that's like, it's just one incident that occurs and it's like, okay, now.

[Craig Jones]

It'S over, but it is still a lot of the times, like, so obviously there are some, like, there are some lucky shots. But like, like say Masvidal, he knew that if he applied pressure, he knew the way Askin would, would lean. So he knew sort of his habits. Right. I mean, that was definitely a mistake on Askren's end, you know what I mean? I don't. It was a great approach by Masvidal as well. You know, like he, he's sprinting towards him at a period of the fight where usually it's pretty tame. Usually a feeling out process, usually a hand touch. So he's breaking sort of the, the rhythm there. So I think There was a bit of planning in what looked like brilliant accidental lucky strike, but it was. Well, yeah, I think that was calculated. They knew what Askren's reaction would be.

[Chris Willx]

And had you have been in his corner, you could have sold a instructional.

[Craig Jones]

I would have told him how to wrestle.

[Chris Willx]

Yep. Yeah. So I'm just interested a little bit. I again have very little understanding about what's going on, but I'm pretty fascinated about eras or different periods within sports. How would you describe sort of the world tactically that BJJ is in? Sort of. What's the trend? What are the popular things that seem to be working and where do you think things are going next?

[Craig Jones]

Oh, I mean, you know what, like it's sort of based on what competition is popular at the time. So what I mean by that is ADCC would allow heel hooks. And there was a guy that called Husmar Pajaras who was notorious for throwing on heel hooks and not letting go when people tap and just breaking their legs. So that created an urgency even in myself when I thought I might be in his weight division to now learn leg locks, because obviously you don't want to be. You don't want to lose, you don't want to be embarrassed by having a sort of a hole in your game there. And in that particular circumstance, I was quite concerned he was going to just get it, rip it and not let go. He got banned from the ufc, I'm pretty sure for doing that. That guy's notorious for just being a caveman and just ripping. But jiu jitsu is sort of like you're looking for holes in the sport to take advantage of it. So once I started training that heel hook game, then a tournament appeared called ebi, which became like sort of a Eddie Bravo's event became sort of this cultural movement where we had the stars from the original Danaher death squad like Eddie Cummings and Gordon and Gary Tonan, who were using moves that a lot of the pre existing black belts had never played with because they were banned in those competitions. So these guys got basically a head start on an area of the game that was going to become very important later. And then once people were so scared of their leg locks, it created opportunities for other parts of their game. So it's kind of like you're trying to get ahead of the curve. So it's just trying to recognize vulnerabilities and exploit them at the right moments. But there's been like 50, 50 guard was a position, generally speaking, if the older generation of black belts hate it, they hate it for a reason because it's working. 50, 50 guard, deep half guard. We had a move called the beer and bolo. We had all the leg locks, we had sort of arm traps from the back. As ADCC became more popular and wrestling became more important, we had this scrimmage style wrestling which basically just scrambling for top position. So and that would be more reminiscent of MMA where the goal on bottom is to get up. But obviously Jiu jitsu, we don't have to worry about strikes so we can be a bit more creative in what we do. So really there's a whole lot of errors and usually there's like a person that made those moves popular because they came in and beat people that they shouldn't have beaten because they were using moves that was sort of cutting edge or innovative moves.

[Chris Willx]

And what's the era that we're in now?

[Craig Jones]

Good question. I've stopped watching this. No, I don't know what we're in now to be honest. I mean like again, like I think we'll probably see some new emerging trends based on our event because there's so much at stake. There's a great amount of prize money, there's a lot of prestige in that you're going to be able to claim your team is the number one team in the world. So I think a lot of coaches are going to be, especially a guy like Greg Sad is going to be trying to think of some really creative ways.

[Chris Willx]

Has he got a team that's going to.

[Craig Jones]

He's going to control the team. Team America, the America's team.

[Chris Willx]

Okay. Oh right. Because you've had to gift coaches who's looking after the other two.

[Craig Jones]

We've got Lachlan Giles who gave me my black belt. He had a fantastic run at ADCC and he was able to medal as a 77 kilo guy in the openweight division. And he heel hooked up three monsters. He basically heel hooks. Within the game of hill hooks there were different positions which people could innovate. There was a guy called Eddie Cummings who's really good at outside heel hooks and a position called outside Ashi. Gary Turner, Gordon Ryan were really good at getting this sort of inside senkaku, obviously throwing some Japanese terms around to confuse people and they innovated that area and then Lachlan Giles came in and innovated this position called backside 5050 and created a massive trend. So he was really influential in the sport and he's made bank off the back of that respect to him. And then in the UK we have a guy called Farris who I've picked because he's got good banter. He riles up the Brazilians, and I'm excited to see some of that take place.

[Chris Willx]

And what do you think? So it's exactly the same in terms of the walls, gauntlet style thing.

[Craig Jones]

Same size pit. Yeah.

[Chris Willx]

But people, the next competitor is going to be, yeah, off to the side. And no one knows. And then the coach sends them out.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. And actually that the pit itself is like guys that figure out how to utilize the pit because, like, we've had the UFC cage forever. Right. People worked out how to wrestle against the cage. People changed strategies of the cage. Typically speaking, when guys got taken down in the earlier UFC's, they tried to get away from the cage, and then it changed where guys would use the cage to get up. So I think the pit and how you use the pit, there's a huge opportunity for innovation there. And with innovation comes instructional sales. So that makes bank offer.

[Chris Willx]

How much have you got to train over the last 12 months?

[Craig Jones]

I'll be honest, not a lot. You know, it's hard to be in my position because I love training and I just want to go in and have a role. But when you're a known athlete and. Or you're a known promoter, people see that as their opportunity to.

[Chris Willx]

If I can impress.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. They're like, oh, now's my time. And that's actually a shout out to the new general manager, Ben Kovacs of flow grappling. I would say if you guys see him at an open mat, fight him to the bitter end. Fight him to the death. If you submit him multiple times, I'm sure you'll get a spa on the flow grappling event.

[Chris Willx]

That's what everybody thinks.

[Craig Jones]

That's what they think. Yeah. They come for me. So, I mean, I don't. I don't train too much. I'll shop to a random gym and some dude will be there just trying to kill me. And I'm just like, what? What have I done to you, brother?

[Chris Willx]

Or a Brazilian beach up against a bartender.

[Craig Jones]

Yeah. But we choose our battles there. That guy was. That guy was set out. You know what I mean?

[Chris Willx]

All right, so what's the next few months got in store up until cji?

[Craig Jones]

Oh, do I want to say what I'm doing? I don't want to say. All right, so we're going to London. We're one of the CGI trials, where we'll do three divisions. Three, four man divisions. The winners of those will represent the team. Team Europe. And the other two guys, Owen Jones. And who am I forgetting? Cut that. Owen Jones is in there. And the other divisions will be decided by the trials. And then I'm going to do a bit of a European seminar run. So hit up Europe. We'll get some content. I'm going to try and raise a bunch of money for a cause, but I'll keep that cause secret now because it might cost me my life if people and I run around Europe with that much money to give to a certain group of people.

[Chris Willx]

Fuck him. Greg Jones, ladies and gentlemen. Dude, I'll see you at cgi.

[Craig Jones]

Thank you, bro.

[Chris Willx]

When I first started doing personal growth, I really wanted to read the best books. The most impactful ones, the most entertaining ones, the ones that were the easiest to read and the most dense and interesting. But there wasn't a list of them. So I scoured and scoured and scoured and then gave up and just started reading on my own. And then I made a list of 100 of the best books that I've ever found. And you can get that for free right now. So if you want to spend more time around great books that aren't going to completely kill your memory and your attention just trying to get through a single page, go to chriswillx.combooks to get my list completely free of 100 books you should read before you die. That's ChrisWillX.Com Books.