Mostly Wise: Matt McCusker, Andrew Huberman & Tom Segura - #1102

Summary

Modern Wisdom Ep. 1102 – "Mostly Wise: Matt McCusker, Andrew Huberman & Tom Segura"

Host: Chris Williamson
Date: May 25, 2026
Guests: Tom Segura (comedian), Chris Masterjohn (science/health expert, subbing in segments for Dr. Huberman), Andrew Santino (comedian)

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Episode Overview

This episode blends comic perspective with scientific deep-dives as Chris Williamson is joined by comedians Tom Segura and Andrew Santino, and neuroscientist Chris Masterjohn (reprising the Huberman-style explainer role), for a wide-ranging conversation. They explore the intersections of health habits, substance routines, AI's impact on identity and relationships, modern parenting, the psychology of comedy, and cultural trends—from 90s nostalgia to conspiracy theories. The tone is candid, irreverent, and often vulnerable, with plenty of witty banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Should Everyone Really Be Taking Cialis? (00:00–05:24)

• Discussion of Tadalafil/Cialis as a low-dose supplement for prostate health and vasodilation. Masterjohn references urology experts, noting “every male over 40 or so should be taking about 2.5 to 5 milligrams per day" ([00:22]).
• Pros (prostate perfusion, even better testosterone sensitivity) and possible downsides (ruddy complexion, potential blood pressure effects).
• Comedic angle: Banter about who could get an erection last: “Whoever gets the erection last wins.” (Williamson, [02:53]).
• Notable quote: “I kind of feel like it could just be a psyop to normalize erectile dysfunction medication by dudes that have got erectile dysfunction.” (Williamson, [01:54])

2. Morning Routines & Health Trends (05:24–08:28)

• Routine checks: Tom Segura describes chugging coffee, gym habits, attempts at GLP-1 agonist for weight loss, and the effects of intermittent fasting.
• Andrew Santino’s health journey: Discusses dramatic weight loss from fasting and working through busy film production schedules.
• GLP-1 drugs (like Ozempic): Santino notes appetite suppression "I lost the 12 lbs and then…gained the 10–12 pounds back." ([06:49])

3. Comedians as Actors — Artistry & Insecurity (08:28–13:55)

• Why are so many comedians good actors?
  Santino: “They have this darkness and sadness within them, which I think lends itself to dramatic acting.” ([08:50])
• Feedback addiction: Stand-ups seek audience feedback, but acting provides little, fueling insecurity and imposter syndrome.
• Memorable exchange:
  Williamson: “Imposter syndrome.”
  Santino: "Yeah, for sure. And he's good, and that's why he thinks that way.” ([13:54])

4. Comedy, Taste, and Objectivity (15:20–19:36)

• Are “great” comedians objectively great?
  Santino: “But I do think that greatness is objective…if you’re trying to say…George Carlin, Eddie Murphy…are not funny, I think you’re objectively wrong or deaf.” ([17:49])
• Comedy as involuntary reaction: People can be “at the edge” waiting for the right cue—physical comedy or witty delivery.
• Comedy “edge”: Watching a comic destroy a room while not personally finding it funny (“dissociation”).
• Williamson: “Music and beauty are two things that sort of penetrate in that way…Kanye can still sell out…” ([15:57])

5. Social Perception, Cameras, and Modern Morality (18:10–41:26)

• Hyper-scrutiny in the camera age: Offenses and rumors now require video proof. Internet rumor turns into “fog” without evidence.
• Billionaire hate: Guests critique “eat the rich” sentiment and point out everyone uses the services they criticize.
• AI and the “maxing” movement: Mark Andreessen’s “retard maxing”—a meme about minimizing overthinking in favor of action.
• Masterjohn: “Retard maxing is this guy on the internet…you just do what needs to be done. If something bothers you, you just ignore it.” ([31:30])
• Tone: Threaded with both critiques of the "hustle" trend and self-help introspection industry.

6. AI Relationships, Deepfakes, and Identity (46:33–50:23)

• People simulating exes with AI: Williamson describes stories of individuals loading chat histories to create bots of their exes for ongoing relationships, to which the group reacts with incredulity.
• Williamson: “Like you’re trapped in purgatory with this relationship.” ([47:00])
• Legal/ethical questions: “Do you own your own likeness over text message?” (Williamson, [48:12])

7. Surveillance Culture & Crime (49:43–53:08)

• Why are there so few serial killers now?
  – “Ring doorbells…crystal clear audio…you’re on camera being like ‘Yeah, you’re f’ed, man.’” (Segura, [49:58])
• Surveillance and rapid communication making crime hard to get away with.
• Williamson: “You just go on a run and then you get caught and then it’s done, right?” ([51:37])

8. Porn, Performance, and the Performer’s Brain (91:10–97:38)

• Post-show adrenaline & winding down: Segura confesses to porn use as a way to “crash” post-performance, transitioning out of high adrenaline states (the science of “fap nap”).
• Huberman/Masterjohn mode: Explains dopamine, norepinephrine, and prolactin’s role in post-arousal (sexual or performance); “after orgasm, dopamine goes down, prolactin goes up…” ([95:41])
• Segura: “Once you’re 40…if I’m fapped out and the wife and I get the big call, I’m like, ‘No.’ So now I stay ready at all times.” ([92:02])

9. Optimization Culture: Sleep Supplements, Modern Drug Use, and Natural Rhythms (99:13–104:28)

• Tips for winding down: Hot shower (drops core temperature), deliberate exhales, magnesium/saffron/chamomile, red light, portable bedding tech.
• Deep-dive on prescription options, “Pinelon” peptide for REM sleep, pros/cons of melatonin and “natural” supplementation.
• Masterjohn rails against “oversupplementation,” urges first behavioral, then minimal chemical intervention (101:54–103:32).

10. Parenting & Kids’ Emotional Intelligence (105:40–114:32)

• Personal stories about distinct personalities in children, discipline, and self-awareness.
• Santino notes his 10yo's self-control (“He has incredible self-discipline…”) vs his younger son's comic, complaining style.

11. 90s Nostalgia and the Present (84:48–91:18)

• Is the 90s golden era? Guests dig into 90s vs now.
  Masterjohn: “You could find cocaine more easily than you could find…creatine.”
• Chris: “Do you think in 20 years’ time people will look back at 2026 and go, ‘Dude, golden era’?”
  Group: “Someone will.” ([88:58])
• Acknowledgement: every generation mythologizes its youth.

12. AI Voice Theft and Digital Likeness (117:11–124:41)

• Williamson reveals 11Labs’ most popular British AI voice is apparently trained on his podcasts—leads to ad impersonations and legal murk.
• Group discusses rising problem of AI-generated likenesses for profit without consent.

13. Sleep, Sunlight, and Physical Optimization (153:28–158:31)

• Sunlight & sunscreen:
  – Masterjohn stresses getting sunlight but warns on UV exposure and chemical sunscreen endocrine disruptors; promotes mineral-based options ([155:01]).
• Fun sun fact: “The hydrogen fusion…releases gamma rays, which if they went through you, would literally sever your DNA.” (Segura, [156:58])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Great men of history did not sit around thinking about their thoughts and introspecting. Introspection is not what we need to be doing. We need more action, less introspection.” (Mark Andreessen paraphrased, [32:05])
• “Retard maxing is hard." (Segura, [41:35])
• “You want sunlight on your skin as much as possible…but that doesn’t mean as much sunlight as possible.” (Masterjohn, [151:54])
• “It never says no to them either. So a lot of issues with porn in the younger crowd.” (Masterjohn, [97:21])
• “Fapnap. Never heard of a fapnap?” (Segura, [92:32])
• “You could find cocaine more easily than you could find…creatine.” (Masterjohn, [86:42])
• “If you hear something you don’t [like] more than once, it just sounds worse.” (Masterjohn, [14:14])
• “AI version of your ex with all your past messages?...Like you’re trapped in purgatory with this relationship.” (Williamson, [47:00])

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Important Timestamps

• Prostate health & Cialis: 00:00–05:24
• Morning routines, GLP-1 drugs, weight loss: 05:24–08:28
• Comedy vs acting—the art & insecurity: 08:28–13:55
• Comedy & objectivity, music’s power: 15:20–19:36
• Maxing culture, Andreessen & labelling introspection: 30:40–36:07
• AI exes & digital relationships: 46:33–50:23
• Surveillance, serial killers, modern crime: 49:43–53:08
• Porn, fapnaps, the performance brain: 91:10–97:38
• Sleep, winddown, supplementation: 99:13–104:28
• Parenting, personality in kids: 105:40–114:32
• AI voice theft: 117:11–124:41
• Sunscreen, sunlight, and health: 153:28–158:31

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Closing Thoughts

This episode is a rollicking, unfiltered journey from prostate health to porn shame, punctuated with neuroscience, dad jokes, AI ethics, and social critique. It underlines how deeply modern life, wellness culture, and comedy now intertwine. While laughs abound, there’s persistent introspection about how technology, transparency, and optimization are transforming identity, relationships, and self-understanding—sometimes for better, often with unforeseen costs.

For anyone seeking a lively blend of rich health science, confessions from the road, and genuine human absurdity, this is a Modern Wisdom must-listen.

Transcript

[Chris Williamson]

I keep seeing tweets about how everyone should be taking erectile dysfunction medication. Is that true?

[Tom Segura]

Low grade, whatever. Yeah, like, low grade.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So Tadalafil, which is the generic name for Cialis, was developed first as a prostate health drug, and then people took more of it and realized that at higher dosages, it can be effective for erectile dysfunction.

[Andrew Santino]

But low dose is good for prostate health.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Low dose, like 2.5 to 5 milligrams per day, is very helpful for perfusion of the prostate. And also it causes vasodilation in the brain. So things like strokes. I mean, you want blood flow, right? You don't want excessive blood flow where you're. You've got a headache from it. But our chair of male sexual health and urology at Stanford, Mike Eisenberg, he came on the podcast and he said pretty much every male over 40 or so should be taking about 2.5 to 5 milligrams per day.

[Tom Segura]

Does it still get you pretty hard, too?

[Chris Masterjohn]

It definitely will improve.

[Tom Segura]

Just curious.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It will definitely. It will definitely notch up, like, erectile strength. But unlike, you know, some health people out there, I. I'm not, like, using the calipers to measure the strength.

[Tom Segura]

You know, I'd put.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I asked someone else to measure, and.

[Andrew Santino]

And.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And. And she tells me that, like, you know, not, you know, it's all good.

[Tom Segura]

I know what you mean.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Tell her to close. Close her hand. Close her hand if she can.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Well, no, I've never actually. I've never actually subjected to the grip test. Um, you know, I don't want to tempt anybody. Um, but in all seriousness, you know, the drug. This drug that was developed for vasodilation and which is now used for erectile dysfunction, it really was developed first as a prostate health drug and a lot of sitting. The prostate's weird, too, because it doesn't get a lot of blood flow compared to other tissues. Doesn't have as.

[Chris Williamson]

Speak for yourself.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Same immune system. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Well, what if you sit with the prostate?

[Chris Masterjohn]

You're Kegeling all day. So, you know, we realized, you know, Chris said to pull up to this little piece of tape so we didn't catch him Kegeling over the desk.

[Chris Williamson]

Kegeling.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Kegeling.

[Chris Williamson]

I kind of feel like it could just be a psyop to normalize erectile dysfunction medication by dudes that have got erectile dysfunction. Like, by doing that, every man should be taking it that nobody is then on the outside.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's fair.

[Andrew Santino]

The. I take the six. The. It's like five to six Milligrams in the morning.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You do it in the morning?

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, every morning.

[Chris Williamson]

What's a, what's a little troche? What's a little mint? Is that half?

[Chris Masterjohn]

What's like a. Oh, I don't know, I, I mean you can get full one.

[Chris Williamson]

Is that full one or a half one of what? The Tadalafil?

[Andrew Santino]

Well, I'm saying it depends on the prescription that you're given. Right. So like the 6 milligram thing is supposed to be for prostate health.

[Chris Williamson]

OK.

[Andrew Santino]

But if you were like to get 25, 50, obviously that's like massive blood flow and you're going to take note.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And it can draw blood strong, Gustavo. And it can disrupt, you know, lower blood pressure slightly and things like that because you gain vasodilation. So, you know, all the pipes are getting a little bigger.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So but let's take one right now

[Andrew Santino]

and see like how the broadcast knows

[Chris Williamson]

whoever gets the erection last wins.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, I have a strong mind.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

This is not the podcast I signed up for, but it all. But to your point, it probably does feel safer for guys to call up their doctor and go, hey, I heard this podcast. I heard some, you know, MD, PhD from Stanford. Not me, but Mike Eisenberg said that I should be getting better perfusion of my prostate and I should take 2.5 to 5 milligrams of tadalafil, you know, and, and there they just avoided all the statements about Cialis Ed. And then, you know, they call another doctor and get duplicate prescription and now they're taking double you. I assume that some of that happens, but it's also cost like pennies, it's generic now the patent is out.

[Chris Williamson]

Do you know the story about how Viagra was found?

[Chris Masterjohn]

I only know that it was very quick to market. It's one of these like remarkable discovery to suddenly like it was on the market. And that just tells you how badly certain people want it on the on market and to use it.

[Chris Williamson]

The story was that they were trying to do something. I think it was for angina. It was more heart stuff. And they found typically when medical trial's finished and they ask people to give the medication back, people don't have any. And no one wanted to give the medication back. I'm like, no. And then they also noticed when the nurses were going in to do the checkups on the people during the trial that the guys were sitting weird. They were all sitting cross legged to cover themselves up. And from that they said, yeah, there's been this sort of weird side effect to this angina medication that you've been giving me and I feel like I'm 14 again.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Well, the younger guys are probably gonna wanna get on the tadalafil too, but maybe not for the same reasons. It does upregulate either sensitivity or number of androgen receptors so your body can respond more and better to whatever circulating testosterone you have. So a bunch of things that make it like a useful tool, but at this very low, low dose, it will make you a little ruddy, like a little, you know, like it makes you a little bit red.

[Chris Williamson]

Cialis.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Well, just because blood flow to it's everywhere, you know, I'm sure I'm British, we're. Somebody's going to die, you know what I mean?

[Chris Williamson]

Like a pink cable, you know, A

[Andrew Santino]

lot of pro athletes take the low dose before games too.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Is that for anxiety?

[Andrew Santino]

I think just, they just. The increased blood flow is something that they want.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Anxiety lowers blood pressure a little bit. That's what I was saying. You take it later in the day, it can assist. Kind of like feels like, you know, like a half, like, like a half cock. Like half a cocktail.

[Chris Williamson]

Careful using half.

[Chris Masterjohn]

No pun intended.

[Andrew Santino]

I thought you meant like you got.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Nothing is safe in this room, you know, like comedians and shit. Like, you know, I'm. Yeah, you know.

[Chris Williamson]

I want to know your morning routine.

[Tom Segura]

Mine?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. Matt, Andrew spent a long time optimizing people's mornings. I want to know what your morning routine.

[Tom Segura]

Well, I heard you were talking about cortisol for a while. So I was waking up and just chugging coffee, being like I'm up in my cortisol and I would have like a panic attack in my office and be like, I don't know, man. I don't know if I'm cut out for this. But no, I wake up. I woke up early, man, like 6:30 every other day I'll take my kids to school and then I just go to the gym for like an hour.

[Andrew Santino]

Are they off on the other days?

[Tom Segura]

No, my wife doesn't.

[Andrew Santino]

Okay. I thought you're like, they don't go

[Tom Segura]

to school every day.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I was like, I was like, are you adopting? Because that sounds like a good ride.

[Tom Segura]

No man, we. But yeah, I'm pretty. Honestly, I'm more locked in than I've ever been. I'm up every day 6:30 and you know, I just. I work out almost every day. I got fat. I got like fatter than I ever was. So I'm trying to like pay for two years, two and a half years of bad Eating, so I'm losing.

[Andrew Santino]

You look good, man.

[Tom Segura]

Thank you.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Good.

[Tom Segura]

You guys all look great.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You do the. No shame if anyone does it. Anyone on the glp. I'm not. I haven't tried them yet.

[Andrew Santino]

No.

[Tom Segura]

Is that the. That's real quiet.

[Andrew Santino]

I tried. No, I tried. I tried it. I tried it in. In 22. Yeah. But I tried it after I had lost the majority of my weight.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Okay.

[Andrew Santino]

And I got down. So I was like, I hit a wall at like 2:12 to 13. And I was like, I want to get to like 200. But I took it for like a month. But I didn't eat.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Oh, yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

And so I lost the £12. And then I was like, yeah, but I'm like, I'm not eating at all.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

So I got off of it and then gained the 1012 pounds back. And then I kind of just floated there for a while. And the thing that actually jump started getting down again was doing a fast. I did a five day fast.

[Chris Masterjohn]

No water?

[Andrew Santino]

No, I had water.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Okay.

[Andrew Santino]

But a five days of no food.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Okay.

[Andrew Santino]

And I anticipated that I would like. I knew that once I resumed eating that I would gain some of the weight back, but I gained none of it back. And then I went into a production. And on the production, the thing is, if you're in like every scene, you. You don't want to eat a lot. Like, if you're in every scene. Right. So, like, I would get on set at like, I don't know, like the makeup trailer, like 5:30, 6 in the morning. Like, what do you want to eat? I'd be like, just a little bit of fruit, a little bit of egg whites. Then you shoot for like six hours and you break for lunch. So you pick a little bit at lunch and then you have to shoot the rest of the day. So the only, like, real meal I was like, that was full. I was having. Was at the end of the day, I was having dinner. And in the production, just by working, I lost 25 pounds. And then I gained like 10 of that back. So I'm still. I'm like 190 right now. But it's from just like basically manipulating how I was eating and working out.

[Chris Williamson]

Overworking yourself.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Was that from your show for the.

[Andrew Santino]

That was from the movie I did last year.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Okay.

[Andrew Santino]

And so. And then I. Then when I came back, I was like, I'm gonna gain all the weight back again. But I just started working out more like four days a week. I work out in the, in the, in the mornings and just dialed in food. More. Like, pay attention more. Yep, yep.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I have a question about the. The whole thing with comedians and acting.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

How come they're. They're so good at it? Like, it seems like, like, Theo's got a. I haven't seen busboys yet. Yeah, but I saw the trailer. I'm like, theo can act, you know, and then I obviously, like, Jim Carrey is a comedian actor. All these people, like, all these comedian actors. Comedian, actors, comedian. Whitney will show up in things. So is it an easy jump? And if so, why?

[Andrew Santino]

I think it's actually, like, it's really dependent. Some can really do it, some can't. And the ones that can really do it have the dramatic capacity to do it. Right. Like, when you think of, like, Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, those guys were, like, incredible comedians. But they have this darkness and sadness within them, which I think lends itself to dramatic acting. But I don't think that that's across the board because you. I've seen a lot of comedians that are actors and then some that. Some that really impress you. But it's kind of like you just never know. You just never know.

[Tom Segura]

It's hard, too, because you don't get feedback. When you do stand up, people laugh. When you do, when you act, people go, all right, that's fine. Keep going. You're like, is that all? Is that the best? Or like, what are we doing here? And then you. I started being like, well, they don't. Like, you don't even get feedback. And someone will do a scene and the whole staff will clap, and you're just like, fuck. There is feedback. I'm not getting it right.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, well, the thing is about. You could tell about, like, comedians who act, especially at first, versus, like, experienced actors. Experienced actors, when they yell cut, the experienced actor doesn't turn to the director and go, what do you think? They know what. They're just like, you fucking come over me if you want to. Like, I'm not asking you for approval.

[Chris Masterjohn]

They know how they do it.

[Andrew Santino]

They know what they're doing. Comedians, they'll go, cut. And they'll be like, what do you think? Yeah, like, because they're. They're waiting because we're used to the feedback.

[Chris Williamson]

But it would be the same as being on stage and going to the audience. And did you like it?

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You notice it, right? And then. But like, some blow you away with how talented they are as actors. But I think it's like, you never know who has it. It's a specific skill set. I Think.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Is it true that some actors just never leave character? I was. I was listening to something about the filming of the Outsiders, the original movie, Right. And someone was saying that, like, Tom Cruise, like, literally just stayed in character, like, the entire film.

[Andrew Santino]

All these stories about who does that. And, like, you know, famously, like, Daniel Day Lewis. Carey did it when he was doing the Coffin Mood. Me, like, there's various stories about who does it. I talked to somebody who said they were on a set, and the. One of the other actors came up in character and was like, you know, like, doing his voice. And the director was like, we're not doing this. And he was like, oh, okay.

[Tom Segura]

Like.

[Andrew Santino]

Like, he was just like, I'm not playing with this.

[Chris Masterjohn]

2017, I think it was. I met Pee Wee Herman in an art show, and he was in the full getup.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And Paul. What's his name? Real life. I don't even know his real name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Paul Herman.

[Chris Williamson]

Her.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Something like that. And. And Laird Hamilton was there. And Laird's like, only Laird, Right. He's on. He was just like. And I don't think he knew who Peewee was, really. Herman, like, worked his way through this enormous wall of mostly women who wanted to get near Laird. And I was like, hi, it's so

[Andrew Santino]

nice to meet you.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And he was, like, talking to. There's this moment where it was like, Laird Hamilton and Peewee Herman. He was just fully in care of the lipstick, the Everything.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. I mean, so look, I. I get

[Chris Masterjohn]

this was out in the world. It was. It was like a West Hollywood art show.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. I get how if you're really into character and kind of stay that way between, you know, setups and shots, like, it can help, especially if it's, like, a really involved thing. But, I mean, I think there's probably. There's limits to where you want to take that. I've heard that, like, the most extensive was, like, Jim doing Andy Kaufman. Like, there's a lot of stories about how he was just never breaking from that, but I don't think that that's mostly what people do. When you talk about, like, method acting.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. My method is I drink a ton of Dunkin Donuts coffee, and I think about my face the entire time. I just feel like, what is my face doing right now?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Anxiety from caffeine. You drink a lot of. You mentioned three times, you're like, if I drink a cup of coffee at noon, I'm F'd. And then you're like, I wake up in the morning, a slam of coffee, dude.

[Tom Segura]

I know.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You're like, I drink before. He's actually a good actor.

[Tom Segura]

Problem?

[Chris Masterjohn]

No shit. You know who's a really good actor? This guy. They do these ads for Newton and these other things. I'll see it on Instagram. Like this. It actually passes.

[Chris Williamson]

I can't stop thinking about the fact that you're obsessing over your face the whole time.

[Tom Segura]

You're thinking, like, my face look like right now?

[Andrew Santino]

Do you mean, like, what am I emoting? Like?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, like, what? Does it just look like I'm thinking about my face, or does it look like I'm sad? Like I don't even have a broad range of.

[Chris Masterjohn]

We've only met in person for a little bit, but I'll tell you right now, you're pretty deadpan.

[Tom Segura]

Am I deadpan?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Pretty deadpan, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Behind this face, it's just a swirl of just emotion and chaos. Am I deadpan for real?

[Chris Masterjohn]

You're pretty dead pan.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. That's funny.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. I don't feel deadpan.

[Andrew Santino]

All right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

That's crazy.

[Tom Segura]

I appreciate it.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You're pretty.

[Tom Segura]

You got poker face, too.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean, you know, I don't, but I don't act. I mean, this guy was on reality tv, so.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, but you were on last season of Ties as well. Are you doing the next one? Do you know if you're in that?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, same thing. But I. Again, I get done, and I'm like, would my face have been terrible?

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And then I see it. I'm like, I didn't realize that was you. And I'm like, dissolved into the role.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Because you won this. Deadpan.

[Tom Segura]

I'm completely confused. I'm waiting for someone to be like, you get the out of here now.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

What are you doing here?

[Tom Segura]

What are you doing? Get away from here.

[Andrew Santino]

I think that's a very comedian's perspective. I really do.

[Chris Williamson]

Imposter syndrome.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, for sure. And he's good, and that's why he thinks that way. You know, if he was like, I'm the shit, he probably wouldn't be any good at it. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Has there been any research done on comedians? Like, if. If we put Tom and Matt in a lab, do you think there's some scans or tests or biomarkers that you could do on them that would identify what they've done as a career?

[Chris Masterjohn]

That's a tough one. The only science that pops to mind is. And Tom and I have talked about this before, but is, like, there are studies. There's some interesting studies, like the. The Classic studies of memory were all done on this guy. Hm. This patient who had damage to the hippocampus, like a critical region of the brain for encoding memories. And you could walk in, introduce yourself, walk out, and then five minutes later walk in, he would not remember your name. And they tested, you know, he wasn't faking it. They kept being at this for decades. And if you told him a joke, he'd laugh. And if you came back and told him the joke again, he would laugh a little less each time, even though he was completely unaware that he had heard the joke before. So that's kind of interesting, right? There's something kind of unconscious. And then I think it was you, Tom, that said this, that there's also something weird about comedy, which is for many other things, like visual art or music. Like, if you don't like opera and then you listen to a lot of it and you start looking for certain things and you kind of develop a. A sense of the nuance, you can start to really like it. But with comedy, it either lands with you or it doesn't. And if you hear something you don't more than once, it just sounds worse.

[Andrew Santino]

I think that it's the most, like, art is subjective, obviously. And, you know, you have involuntary reactions to like, I like this painting, I like this song, right? But like, what I was saying is, like, you could see a painting and not care for it, but maybe somebody comes to you and like, explains the history or the, the technique that was used, and then all of a sudden you start to appreciate it more. But I think if you go like, that's not funny. It doesn't matter who tells you what. You're just like, it's not funny to me, you know, so in that sense, I think you have, like, the. Most people have a completely involuntary reaction to what they find funny or not

[Chris Williamson]

funny, but it's pretty hard to deny good music. I think music and beauty are two things that sort of penetrate in that way. Kanye, dude. Kanye, like, just not had a great run over the last five years. Like brand wise, he's got such bangers that he can sell out SoFi Stadium two nights in a row, like fucking 30,000 people, and stand on top of the world. And everyone be like, yeah, he's still unbelievable at what he does. Like, music's undeniable in a way.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Is he chuhurong again? It's like the swastika. He just did couture or something.

[Chris Williamson]

He was on top of a globe.

[Tom Segura]

He already did that one.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Have you seen his List where he published the People I Hate list. These lists are amazing.

[Chris Williamson]

You haven't seen these?

[Chris Masterjohn]

I don't have my fan phone with me, but occasionally he'll just tweet, like, People I Hate. It's like a revenge list. But what's wild, someone should find he's on one or two of them. But then some people show up on multiple lists. These lists are insane.

[Chris Williamson]

They're pretty, but for different reasons.

[Andrew Santino]

It's kind of nice to be that free, though, too, don't you? Like he says, and you're like, bro, come on, man. But then you're also like, this guy's so free that he doesn't care what he's like. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Like, you just can't deny music in that way. Like, if you've got bangers, people are just gonna let.

[Andrew Santino]

But to extend that to comedy and art, people always say, you know, it's all subjective, but I do think that greatness is objective. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can say, like, this guy's not funny. That guy's not funny. But if you're trying to say that, like, I don't know, Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Eddie Murphy. If you're like, they're not funny, I think you're objectively wrong or deaf. Yeah. Like, you're just. You. You can say, I guess you don't find it, but you are actually, I think, wrong. Like, greatness is greatness. Right. Like, you can't argue with a certain level of great art.

[Chris Williamson]

I suppose you might not like the genre of someone's music, but you would have to go, well, look like they're a fucking savant at whatever they've done.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

You don't need to, like hip hop to say you don't have to pick up music.

[Andrew Santino]

You're not going to say, like, Beethoven's trash, right?

[Tom Segura]

It'll be a hot take.

[Andrew Santino]

That's a hot take.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, it's trash. Oh, yeah. No one says, not for me, just, like, it's just not for me.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting.

[Chris Williamson]

But people are more personal when it comes to. Especially YouTubers, podcasters, right? Because the distance between whatever the art form is and the person is basically zero. It's like, well, you're just you. Yeah, right. You're just being you. Which means that it's not just not for me, it's that person's a bad person. And then it gets wrapped up in, like, morality and their sense of who they are. The same thing's not true in any way for, like, a Musician that's someone who doesn't even perform with their real sage name. Maybe they wear a mask on, they get dressed up, and then comedians are sort of somewhere in between. Right. Because it's like it's partly you, but partly not. I don't know.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm fascinated by the, the comedy thing because of the different cues. Like I said, unless they're deaf, like, if they can't actually hear the jokes. I was, you know, being kind of tongue in cheek there. But the, but in, in reality, like, some comedians, I know this, I noticed still, like how they use the whites of their eyes. Like, you know, they're like this kind of thing. Like, they can, they can punctuate.

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

With. With. With eye contact. And, and their.

[Andrew Santino]

The physical. So much of it.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, yeah, that's a huge part of it. And. And I just. I don't really understand physical comedy. Like, I don't really get it. I would. I have to say I wasn't really into the, The Jim Carrey movies. You know, like that crazy. Like that, you know, all this. Yeah. Craziness. But I. But I love the stuff he acted in.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, I get it. You know, and I just saw somebody like, at the festival and like, as soon as they got like, real wacky, I'm like, the fuck is going on?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Right.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, it throws me off too.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean, they eventually started animating him and it was like, came its own character. Right. You know, or cartoon. It's wild. So, yeah, there's a lot there. And I think people are. So. I think some people are just tuned to pick up on certain things and they. There's an excitement that puts them at this edge is how I always feel as a spectator.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So I don't play music. I know nothing about music except that what I enjoy.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's one of these areas. I just. I'm purely a consumer. Same thing with comedy.

[Andrew Santino]

Right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And I feel like comedians do something or a combination of things that bring certain people to like, this edge where they're like, ready to laugh. They're like, you know, it's like the guns cocked and loaded, you know, and so they're just like, ready, and then you just have to let. Let them go. And so some people, they're hard to bring out a bit more, and they probably respond to a different kind of humor.

[Andrew Santino]

People. Some people love that physical. I've also been, I'm sure, like you're in the room sometimes in a club and someone's on stage and they are murdering. Yeah. And you're like, what's going on?

[Tom Segura]

Like.

[Andrew Santino]

Like you're just like, I don't even know what is happening right now. You're watching it and you're just like. You feel like you're dissociating or something

[Chris Williamson]

because you're even as someone who's supposed to understand what's going on.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. You're like, I don't get it.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. You're on next. You're like, this guy sucks.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Well, there's also this interesting memory. Like, Tim Dillon made me laugh so hard one time at the Comedy Store with the I am your mother. Like, before I saw it on. On online, I saw him do that whole bit is that we go.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And now when I see Tim Dillon, I start laughing. Like I'm kind of at the edge of laughter. And I'm not expecting him to make a joke. It's just somewhere in my unconscious mind,

[Chris Williamson]

like that's just associated him that's up.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And I'm just like, this is going to be.

[Andrew Santino]

He taps into something. Yeah. So it's. It's just.

[Tom Segura]

He's really fudgeing.

[Andrew Santino]

Good fuck, man.

[Tom Segura]

Especially when he's rant. Like, he's rant on a show. It's like, it's impossible.

[Andrew Santino]

I've never seen anyone better, actually.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

As. Than Tim. He's alone. It's one of the hardest things because when podcasting start, like, started big in comedy, it was probably like 09, 2010 is when people started to like, really? And when I would see the guys who could sit alone and do the hour alone and. And make it interesting and funny. I had tried it one time and I died. I feel. Felt crazy. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Just having a conversation with myself because,

[Andrew Santino]

like, where'd you go, Bill?

[Chris Williamson]

Did it really well.

[Tom Segura]

Notes help. Yeah. If you at least type out some thoughts, it can help, but it's going.

[Chris Williamson]

Pretend conversation with yourself.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I do talk to myself a lot. But if you're trying to, like, sell it, it's. That's tough because it doesn't. Usually doesn't make sense.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

You're just talking about what your face is doing.

[Andrew Santino]

You do it alone a lot.

[Tom Segura]

I've done it. I've done it a couple times. It feels good when you do it. It goes well. You feel really good. But when you lose the thread, you're like.

[Andrew Santino]

But you gotta have like some place to go to.

[Tom Segura]

It helps.

[Chris Williamson]

Alex Jones. Yeah, Alex Jones. The rest.

[Tom Segura]

The OG legend.

[Chris Williamson]

Just being able to solo fucking like he was the original Yappa.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Right. He could do hours A day, dude.

[Andrew Santino]

That's. Why.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Is that like the Rush Limbaugh kind of thing?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Kind of built off that.

[Andrew Santino]

That's true.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like Alex Jones got built off Roche Limbaugh, but with Rush coked up.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And then. And then a bunch of very costly to him. False statements about a couple. About school shooting. One particular said misinformation. He wasn't. He fed himself misinformation.

[Tom Segura]

Nah, that was. Fuck.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I don't want to get involved in the lawsuit. I don't know what happened. No, to him.

[Tom Segura]

It did he.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But you know. And then I'm going with the original news story on.

[Tom Segura]

They got him the fucking.

[Chris Williamson]

The Onion now own Infowars.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, they own Infowars.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, they bought. I don't know whether.

[Andrew Santino]

And is there a more Onion thing to do? Like, I know it's the first video

[Chris Williamson]

they did was an impression of Alex Jones drinking the blood of Christ. And it was red wine. And he's like, it's available at the Infowars store. Like, if they'd released their own red wine under that brand, Like, Infowars red wine, Blood of Christ wine.

[Tom Segura]

Doesn't he owe, like, a billion dollars?

[Andrew Santino]

It's like.

[Tom Segura]

It's like 100.

[Chris Williamson]

Really, Jared, ask Chad how.

[Tom Segura]

It's like one hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Chris Williamson]

At least a billion.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But everything around him, even though he's apparently a comedian and a bunch of other things woven in there, too, gets real, real, real fucking quick because someone got shot and killed on his team here in Austin. Yeah, right. He's talking about, you know, school shooting, murders, this kind of thing. Like, there's something he likes to. I don't think he wanted that thing to happen to his staffer, obviously, but stuff just runs really into reality very fast with him. He goes there and it comes back to him.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Like, not good boundaries.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, it'll happen.

[Chris Williamson]

No, no, no. What's the. What was the.

[Andrew Santino]

What.

[Chris Williamson]

What is. Alex Jones is.

[Tom Segura]

You know, the fine.

[Chris Williamson]

What's he being sued for?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, he. I mean, he got absolutely buried with the Newton thing. The Sandy.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, Sandy hook. The settlement.

[Chris Williamson]

1.5 billion.

[Chris Masterjohn]

5 billion.

[Chris Williamson]

Holy shit.

[Tom Segura]

1.5 billion.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I like how you think because I have a fee that I'm supposed to know what Alex Jones owes.

[Andrew Santino]

No, I meant the word. We were looking for the word.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Oh, I was focused on something else.

[Chris Williamson]

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[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm still wondering if Chris's experience on reality TV made him a better actor or better at reality.

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, dude. I mean I was. Oh my God, that was 11 years ago. And what show was it? You'll never. Oh, you're the first person through the

[Andrew Santino]

doors of Love Island. Brit hotties all together on a island.

[Chris Williamson]

Me, I was the hottie. Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, that was, that's awesome. It was kind of like Navy SEAL hell week but for reality tv because you don't get to leave like locked in this villa, no phone, no Internet.

[Andrew Santino]

But to his.

[Chris Masterjohn]

With a bunch of. With a bunch of hot women. Yeah. Sounds a lot like hell yeah. Let me call up some of my friends who are teen guys.

[Chris Williamson]

How is how many hot women similar to your situation?

[Tom Segura]

Right, right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Just horny, you know, you get a lot of sympathy.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. Do you find yourself in those situations? In a reality show there is like a bit of posturing and like there's

[Chris Williamson]

cameras so you have awareness literally everywhere.

[Andrew Santino]

So do you find yourself kind of like putting on, you know, I mean a.

[Chris Williamson]

To a degree. It's really weird because they work super hard to try and hide the cameras. So let's say that we were talking, there'd be like A plant in the middle. And the plant would have one of those little CCTV things that they could

[Andrew Santino]

just spin around so you're not, like,

[Chris Williamson]

aware you're never really thinking about it. And there's the huge, big, almost like sports TV bazooka things. And they're over the far side, right? So this would be a bigger room and there'd be shit over the far side and they'd be zoomed in and then the villa producer would come over because they want to poke the storyline. They can't take three weeks for you to ask this girl if you can kiss her. It's like, it needs to happen fucking today. So I'll come over. And they go, matt, how do you feel about Chris asking Andrew out? Well, you know, I thought we were friends and it really turns out we're not. And I felt a bit betrayed by him to go, what I think you should do. Why don't you ask him to go and have a chat over by the fire pit? And you go over to the fire pit and there's a fucking army of different photographer, videographer people all around there. But they're all outside the bounds and you're not allowed to talk to them. You can't talk to them. And this was the fucking maddest thing. You never knew what time it was.

[Andrew Santino]

And they feed you booze too, right?

[Chris Williamson]

Wasn't there booze they put a limit on after my season strategically.

[Andrew Santino]

Right.

[Chris Williamson]

But even the camera guys and the drivers, if you ever needed to go off site to go and do a date or something, they all changed the time on the car radio. They changed the time on their watches or took their watches off. It was insane. You never knew what time you went to bed or what time you woke up. I think it's so they could control our sleep and wake patterns. Whoa. It was really kind of weird.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's very cultish.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

I think it was just so that they could lock you into whatever you need. The first night we were there, everyone was super excited. We stayed up until what must have been two in the morning, three in the morning. And then someone got up and there's half as many beds as there are people. So you're always sleeping with a girl each night.

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, boo hoo.

[Chris Williamson]

And then. I know, Hell week. Hell week.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. It's fucking butt school. Thank you, man.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Did you say butt school or butt school?

[Chris Williamson]

And then we woke up the next morning and they came over the tannoy and they were like, hello, islanders. You've been asleep for three and a Half hours. Can everyone please get back to bed? Because no one knew that we'd only been asleep for a little bit of time. One person's up and we're like, well, I guess we must have been awake for a while, whatever the fuck. So it was wild not to inject

[Chris Masterjohn]

some science, but because you said they're telling you how long you were asleep and you don't know how long you were actually asleep, there's some really cool data that show within limits, if you see a great sleep score, cognitively and physically, you perform better the next day, even if your sleep wasn't that great really. And the reverse is also true. If you see a lousy sleep score and you actually slept great, your cognitive and physical performance takes a dive.

[Chris Williamson]

Are you saying that the best wearable, like the best thing that whoop could do would just be to always lie to you and tell you that you are feeling great?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Technically, yes, within limits. So if you sleep three hours, right? And it says, oh, you had a spectacular night's sleep, you're not going to compensate for that lack of sleep, right? So it's when. It's when you're down or up about an hour or two of sleep. So the real solution to this. Sorry to make it so serious, let's get back to Love Island. Butts or buds or whichever one it happens to be.

[Andrew Santino]

Booty school.

[Chris Masterjohn]

The best thing to do would be to check your sleep score against your subjective. Like you write down, you wake up in the morning, like feel like I slept great. And then at the end of the week you compare your score to how you actually felt. So maybe checking in like every four or five days as opposed to, oh, got a 90. I'm good.

[Chris Williamson]

Ruined today.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. Or more importantly, if you get a lousy sleep score, you don't necessarily want to let that, you know, bring you down worm in your brain. It brings me down. But this is like a real effect on, on real cognitive and real physical performance. It wasn't some like, like corny in lab test. I mean this stuff can make a big difference, especially if you're operating at the level that you guys are and you're getting out there and like, oh God, you know, I need to get this just right. So anyway, sorry to inject that, but since they did it to you, you know. So did you fall in love on Love Island?

[Chris Williamson]

I. I was only there for 20 days. I don't think that's long.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Dude. I've fallen in love many times.

[Chris Williamson]

Space. I think I read about that one day I think, I think. I think I read about that.

[Chris Masterjohn]

That was something entirely different. That wasn't love. That happens now. I fall in love 20 times a day with one person.

[Tom Segura]

There you go.

[Chris Masterjohn]

She's so rad.

[Chris Williamson]

That's cute.

[Andrew Santino]

That's sweet.

[Chris Williamson]

Are you threatened by the maxing movement? Have you heard about this?

[Tom Segura]

It's a great question. That's a good question.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Right at me.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes, let me answer that the way

[Chris Masterjohn]

I think you intended it. Yes, I personally offended.

[Andrew Santino]

Wait, you wake up and are you like, I'm retard maxing today? Is that what you think?

[Chris Masterjohn]

What is retard maxing? All right, all right.

[Tom Segura]

It's awesome.

[Chris Masterjohn]

No, I actually. What is this?

[Andrew Santino]

I heard of look maxing.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, there's look maxing. Then there's a guy who does what's called maxing, which is. Was popularized by, of all people, Mark Andreessen, who's easily one of the smartest people I've ever, ever met. Know Mark real well. He's a big fan of maxing. Retard maxing is this guy on the Internet who. What you want to explain?

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, I'm loving.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So, you know, with all the stuff about get up in the morning and, you know, do this and do that and, you know, don't be retired when you have a problem or all the kind of stuff that. That, you know, Chris covers, you know, like, about emerging dynamics of male, female relationships and self perception and philosophy. And he interviews like, you know, real thinkers and they have British accents and that kind of thing. This guy sits in. His backyard is basically a farm, and he does this thing that he calls retard maxing, which is where you basically just don't think about shit at all. You just do what needs to be done. If something bothers you, you just ignore it.

[Andrew Santino]

Wait, is this the. The. The CEO that is like, I don't self reflect.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So Mark Andreessen came on the David Sen. Yeah, so Mark Andreessen started Netscape, right? And now he has a 16Z, which is one of the, you know, biggest investment firms in. In the Bay Area and all over the world, frankly. And he came on the David Seah podcast, which used to. Which is a guy who also does the founders podcast. David Senra podcast, incidentally, put out by Scom. We loved the founders podcast. So we brought Senra over and he brought Marc Andreessen on. And Marc Andreessen said, he used the words, these are not my words. He said, great men of history did not sit around thinking about their thoughts and introspecting you know, like, introspection is not what we need to be doing. We need more action, less introspection. Actually, Dana White kind of doubled out, watched recently, saying that he's not. He. He is not a fan of people. Men talking about their emotional challenges publicly, you know, that it's like, get up, go to war, make money for your family. You know, sort of the old school kind of stoicism thing. So the. The Marc Andreessen thing mobilized a big discussion online on X in particular. One sort of angle of attack that he opened was, all right, here's a billionaire who doesn't like introspection. And, you know, and. And I know Mark very well. He's not a sociopath. He's not. He's kind person. I know his family. He's an incredible human being at many levels. I'm gonna catch a lot of shit for saying that, but that's the truth if you actually know him. All right?

[Andrew Santino]

And now he's retarded now.

[Chris Williamson]

No, no.

[Chris Masterjohn]

He then made a plug for retardmaxing. He was like, hey, there's this guy on the Internet who basically doesn't say shit at all. He just says, just handle your business, do what you need to do, and stop thinking about things so much. Don't ruminate so much. And he said he was a big fan of this retard maxing thing. So building off looks, maxing. And then that caught some momentum. And so now the big thing is introspection. Like, should we introspect? Should we think about and reflect on who we are and what's challenging us? And Dana was basically saying, hey, listen a lot. I think the point Dana was trying to make was that men's mental health, while critical. Right. Suicide rates are way up. Like, we all acknowledge that. He made a very good point, which is oftentimes getting into action and doing things as opposed to being online and thinking about your problems. And rumination is a very dangerous place to be. Yeah, I think so. He said, get up and work and provide for your family. And. But when he and Mark said these things, it came across as a little bit dismissive of the idea that emotions are relevant. And I do think, you know, they have a point in the sense that I think we need to balance out some of what we've been hearing a lot of over the last few years.

[Andrew Santino]

Sure.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Which is that we need to think about every aspect of self. Every aspect. You know, like, too much therapy is not. Not good.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. If you spend your time just, like. Like, thinking and not Doing so because it feels like that's kind of the, the note behind the note. Right. Is like if you just sit and introspect and think and you just sit in, like, I feel this way and you never actually take action, then you're just literally not doing anything. But I think there's kind of levels to like, I think it's good to, to be introspective to a degree. Check in with yourself.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

You know, express how you feel. But don't just sit there and say, this is how I feel, and then don't do anything.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a kind of a larger, perhaps deeper discussion around like, to what? And Mark Andreessen said this as well. Like, people who've tended to accomplish a lot of great things oftentimes have some pretty rough edges.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I grew up in the town where Steve Jobs was around. He used to come in and get rollerblade wheels at the skateboard shop where I worked. And like, he was kind of a rough edged guy. He didn't wear shoes and, you know, and he wanted what he wanted, he wanted. Then he was known for yelling at people. He drive 95 miles like you not even this guy. Yeah. Likes to drive fast. You know, he got, you know, and so there was this, there was this time up until phones with cameras. Thank you, Steve Jobs. There was this time up until phones with cameras where people were kind of celebrated for being big personalities with some rough edges, but for the great things that they did. Now it's, there's a movement largely from the left of like, hey, you know, everything needs to be rather tempered.

[Andrew Santino]

Right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You can't be a big personality unless you're perfect in every dimension. And if you look, I mean, historically, you look at any public figure now, like you're gonna find, as you said, there's that dark and light, those. And Mark's whole thing is those things go hand in hand. Like great CEOs oftentimes have some strong disagreeableness. They rate highly on disagreeableness. They're conscientious. Right. But they also are kind of high friction people.

[Andrew Santino]

But some of the, like, you know, Mark, and you're like, this is a good. But some really high achievers historically, even now men, let's say, that are really high achievers that get a lot of things done and have accomplished a lot are also like, from many people's accounts, like terrible people. You know, some of them.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I guess the question is, how close are those people to the actual person,

[Andrew Santino]

you know, that are Saying that.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. I mean, I think right now there's a lot of hatred of billionaires.

[Andrew Santino]

Sure.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And look, I was born and raised in Silicon Valley, so going big is like a thing. Like, even my friends had gotten to skateboarding in the Bay Area. Like, they weren't thinking about becoming billionaires, but like the Embarcader. APPLAUSE in the early 90s, those guys, like, started big companies. They went big. Rob Dyrdek, he's from, you know, Midwest, but then came out shows. And then he's like, ridiculousness.

[Andrew Santino]

I mean, I have no beef with it, you know, whatsoever.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Going big is. Is a theme in tech, right?

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And everyone uses these platforms and everyone hates these people. But I don't know, I'm. I know some of these people. I'm not like super close with them, but I like Mark, I trust Mark. I like the other Mark, I trust that Mark too. I know, you know, various folks at. Who run these big companies and do I think they're perfect?

[Andrew Santino]

No, no, of course.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But I could listen if I were start talking about Nobel Prize winners, past and present man, the men and the women. Very complicated people.

[Andrew Santino]

Sure.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Like, you want to do a deep dive on the complications of science funding. Like look up Jonas Salk and who he married and getting money and then the work that he was to do by virtue of his marital relations and things. I'm not saying he used his wife

[Chris Williamson]

to make money for funding many.

[Chris Masterjohn]

There's many examples of this in science. You know, money fuels science. You can do more science with it.

[Chris Williamson]

Gotta love some science.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So there's a lot of interesting. And it's not sorted, it's just sort of. It's. They're still humans.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You know, so anyway, but if you've

[Chris Williamson]

got constant cctv, because there's a phone camera within two yards of you everywhere on the planet, those rough edges look a bit. Bit more harsh when they're scrutinized, Is that what you're saying?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, I mean, I have this whole opinion, this purely opinion now about what cameras have done to sort of what we need in order to really make a strong assumption about somebody. So in the, like in the past, you could just say, hey, this person. Like, I don't like them based on one thing they said, and you're entitled to do that. But I think two things have happened in the last couple of years that have completely transformed, like what our expectation is about how rumor matches up with reality, at least for me. One would be, this is an unfortunate. It's a bad incident. Right. Would Be the. You know, there was all this speculation about Diddy and these Diddy parties, right? And everyone expected, like, at some point, there's gonna be a video. Guess what? There was never actually a video aired, right? But there was a video of him beating up this woman. That sort of raised the threshold for what people need to see in order to be like, okay. That actually happened. Okay. The other one was this Coldplay concert thing. Thing like that Coldplay concert where the couple got caught cheating or whatever. Like, whatever. The context of their backdrop of the relationship was totally uninteresting to me. But you could not have created. This was like opera, right? They're at a concert, they're cheating. The guy goes, oh, look at these two lovers, right? The guy is not just anyone.

[Chris Williamson]

It's like a sketch from one of your. Sketch from one of your love.

[Chris Masterjohn]

There's this moment where they're in the, like, oh, that's us. Then there's this moment where they're like, oh, that's.

[Andrew Santino]

Fuck.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So it went from. From kind of like delight to shock

[Andrew Santino]

in an instant to shame.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And then so we got to witness the whole arc. Now, I wasn't interested in that, but the whole world jumped on that because it's like the human drama playing out in real time. So now when somebody goes, oh, I heard that this woman had a kid with this guy. I don't even know their names that you guys probably do, you know, and she named her kid after this guy. And like, oh, it. It has this kind of low level, like, whatever. What happened between Justin Baldoni and Blake Livey and this and that. And it's sort of like, like, yeah, where's the video? Show me the video or this? People don't.

[Chris Williamson]

People.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And so the press can go back and forth and back and forth, and people kind of pick their camps. But I think real things being captured on real video has set the stand. Like, not standard, low standard, high threshold. Yeah. And so I think that's changed. So now if somebody goes, oh, yeah, these guys are, you know, sociopaths. You go, show me the data. For sociopathic people actually now need to see data. It's not sufficient that somebody write some little thing about one little thing. They need to see the video. The video is what. What actually shifts people's minds. So if people are saying, hey, this billionaire founder, this billionaire founder, this billionaire. These guys are terrible.

[Andrew Santino]

Right, right, right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

How are they terrible people? Yeah, show me them being terrible people. Well, I don't want to see it, but I just don't see Evidence of it. So I think it's just turning to chatter and I think it's just going to turn to fog and then I think it's going to just go away.

[Tom Segura]

Well, yeah, I think a lot of it differs though. It depends who it is. There's different billionaires doing different stuff, so. But I agree. If someone just has a billion bucks, I wouldn't hate them just because it's like you shouldn have that much because

[Chris Masterjohn]

you're busy and you're doing well. I think it's very easy to get upset with other people because it's a lot easier than like getting up and doing something like retard maxing is hard.

[Tom Segura]

It is hard. That's 100 true. Also good news. I think the couple. The guy who did squeeze Boobs the Coldplay concert. I think he's back with his wife now. Wait, squeeze poops the guy. That's what I thought.

[Chris Masterjohn]

That was Al Frank.

[Tom Segura]

No, he did over the shirt, second base on the jumbo. That's what he was caught doing. He was hugging from behind. He was honking.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But he was her boss.

[Tom Segura]

He was. Yeah. She was hr, which nobody touches.

[Chris Williamson]

Wild.

[Tom Segura]

That's crazy.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And she was married behind honk on hr.

[Tom Segura]

She was the HR lady. He was the boss. It's like the most forbidden thing possible.

[Chris Masterjohn]

She did this whole thing like New York Times ran this thing about how hard it was for her. Afterwards they tried to do this kind of rescue.

[Tom Segura]

She's a promotion. Yeah. She's a promotional speaker about getting.

[Andrew Santino]

Getting her tissue.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. It's like that doesn't define me, basically.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. Yeah. So I have more than that.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And the real question is, what were the rules for HR at that company?

[Tom Segura]

She can never get high.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You can never be once you're done.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

You can't.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, that's.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Only fans.

[Chris Williamson]

I do think like email yourself about the fact that.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. I might be taking.

[Chris Williamson]

You know, like, have you got any evidence.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But let me put in your arena for. With comedy or if I watch comedy like in the. The Tonight show in the 1950s. It's very ho hum.

[Andrew Santino]

Right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

For now.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But you know, some of the stuff that was on game shows in the 70s was kind of edgy.

[Chris Williamson]

Right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You know, you'd like kiss the guy's wife. Oh. You know, and then, then now there's just so much that's been out there.

[Andrew Santino]

Yes.

[Chris Masterjohn]

That your threshold just like eating very, very flavorful food with a bunch of crap thrown in it, like it raises your threshold for what you consider sweet. Or salty. So there's just sort of like emotional recalibration that needs to happen. But we're still on this. I don't like that word ascension, because it comes from that, like, same thing. All the words are taken, right?

[Chris Williamson]

That's true.

[Chris Masterjohn]

All the words are taken.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. All the fun ones. Ones.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But in any case, sorry, I would say.

[Andrew Santino]

I was just saying that, like, I. I also just think it's super lame to, like, that everybody just goes, I hate so and so because they're basically successful. You know, like, that's a. That's a big thing in society now is that, you know, the. Eat the rich, hate that. Like, punish them. It's like, sure, I understand. Sometimes when they go, this is like a legacy thing where, like this person just inherited. But, like, when people start a company and do well, and then you just hate them because they did well, it's a. It's really.

[Chris Williamson]

It's interesting. The taglines, eat the rich or tax the rich, not help the poor.

[Andrew Santino]

Right?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

Punish them, not help the people.

[Chris Williamson]

That supposed to be. It's the first step, right? Which is we don't like those people as opposed to. We do like these people and we think that they should be helped.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Also, everyone uses these products, of course. I mean, like, you know, if you really, truly hate somebody so much that you're willing to, you know, defect from their product line, but everyone uses them, so obviously they don't hate them that much.

[Chris Williamson]

Have you seen.

[Tom Segura]

What if you put a bumper sticker on your Tesla, it says Anti elon.

[Chris Williamson]

I bought this before.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I drive a 4Runner, but I've heard these new Teslas that drive themselves are. Are awesome.

[Chris Williamson]

They're everyone, those robo taxis.

[Tom Segura]

It's just so funny to buy a car and be like, by the way, I don't like.

[Andrew Santino]

I don't like, just drive the car or just sell it. Sell it. Face like you hate it so much. Just sell it.

[Chris Masterjohn]

What are you driving nowadays? This guy's like, are you a car fanatic?

[Chris Williamson]

No. Really?

[Chris Masterjohn]

What's your.

[Chris Williamson]

I appreciate his car.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's all Porsches for you, huh?

[Andrew Santino]

I like Porsches. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. I like. I still love my. I honestly love my GT4 the most. It's my favorite one. It's not even like the craziest car that I have, but it's you. I think when you get into cars, you're always like, oh, level up and the next crazy thing. And then you find that like, oh, that's the. What you actually are looking for is the fun of driving. Sometimes the fun isn't in the craziest thing out there or the fastest thing. It's something that the feel, the experience of driving is the thrill. And for me it's. It's still that car.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's like relationships.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Have you guys seen.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I didn't hear that, but I'm gonna.

[Chris Williamson]

You know, did you know your gut controls your energy, your recovery, how well you absorb everything that you eat. And the one nutrient that keeps it all running properly is fiber. Well, it turns out that 95% of Americans don't get enough of it, which is why I'm such a huge fan of one of Momentous is Fiber Plus. Most fiber supplements are a one trick pony. One type of fiber solving one part of the problem. Fiber plus is a three in one formula built to tackle digestion, gut barrier strength and blood sugar stability all at once. I use this every single day. It is kind of hard to get enough fiber just through food alone. And best of all, Momentous offers a 30 day money back guarantee. So you can buy it, try it every single day for 29 days and if you don't love it, they will just give you your money back. Plus plus they ship internationally. Right now you can get up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30 day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to livemomentous.com modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom a checkout. There's people making AI versions of their exes. Have you seen this? What?

[Andrew Santino]

What?

[Tom Segura]

What do you.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Oh man, I could have fun with that.

[Chris Williamson]

Fucking unbelievable load up. You load in all of the previous chats that you've had with your ex girlfriend or ex boyfriend.

[Chris Masterjohn]

This is so good.

[Chris Williamson]

All of the photos and then you train the AI to create an exact replica of them. And they know where you've been on holiday and your little in jokes and the cute names that you call each other and all of your memories. And then basically it's like you're still in a relationship with them. Like you never broke up.

[Andrew Santino]

That seems like a healthy thing to do.

[Tom Segura]

I could just.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Sorry, you're saying to indulge in this. Oh, I thought you meant to put it out to the Internet.

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, that you could date my ex

[Tom Segura]

to attack the Internet.

[Chris Masterjohn]

This was my experience.

[Andrew Santino]

You can see how this went.

[Tom Segura]

I would just fight with it.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Hey, look, I know that you think that I might have been in the wrong here, but you can interact with us for five minutes. Me or the gaslighting?

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, I wonder if you could just feed it all in. Like, who was right?

[Chris Williamson]

Well, this is. This was on a.

[Chris Masterjohn]

What is this?

[Chris Williamson]

OpenAI. I played around with OpenAI's playground.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Are we in Reddit?

[Chris Williamson]

Created.

[Chris Masterjohn]

We're really down in the gutter.

[Chris Williamson]

Create your own chatbot and plugged in scripts of text messages. And basically, like, she's saying it's a way of coping to mitigate some damage done to other people or even my ex, because I direct any desire of reaching back out or having to rebound to chatting with the AI. I don't have a sex drive except for wanting my ex to touch me again. So there's the other issue. This has been satisfying my emotional needs. She does go a little bit further down. She's like, I have been training it to be a little bit more like him. I'm like, this just feels like. Like you're trapped in purgatory with this relationship.

[Andrew Santino]

This could really be a disaster.

[Chris Williamson]

It could be a nightmare.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

But the other thing is, like, is this a little. Are you. Do you own your own likeness over text message? Is this a little bit like, I don't know. I guess you can replay the news.

[Chris Masterjohn]

There are definite laws about what? I mean, she can put certain things out there. Perhaps, but I don't think she's not making it public.

[Chris Williamson]

Right. It's just like, it's just privately.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. But I feel like this is ultimate. Like she says, it says, I love

[Chris Masterjohn]

being your little spoon. X. And then it goes X. That's my favorite cuddling position, too. I love being able to wrap my arms around it.

[Tom Segura]

There's no way that's healthy.

[Andrew Santino]

I get the part where this is going to help me from reaching out when I shouldn't, but I love that ultimately.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on a second. We're in the data now. Me, I always love being your little spoon.

[Andrew Santino]

Okay.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I could imagine a woman saying that. I'm assuming that's a woman. And then him acts, assuming it's a him. That's my favorite cuddling position too. I love being Chris. Did you really write this?

[Chris Williamson]

I didn't write this. Would you blame me? Is this because of the retardment? You're still a bitter about the rich?

[Chris Masterjohn]

A little bit.

[Tom Segura]

That's. You're. That's a ex girlfriend building almost like a nuclear weapon text against you to be like, I figured a lot of things out with you, and I figured

[Andrew Santino]

out how I can fix you. Like, read what this version of you does and do this.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, yeah, that's terrible.

[Chris Williamson]

It's a training data.

[Andrew Santino]

Wait, do you ever think about, you know how you're talking about cameras everywhere? Do you think that with the amount of cameras out today, that's why we don't have serial killers really anymore? Like, you know what I mean?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Because, like, now they just do mass shootings.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

They all get. It's like very economical at once. Yeah, Forensics.

[Andrew Santino]

But also cameras are everywhere.

[Tom Segura]

Dude, ring doorbells. We just. We got one not long ago. And you don't. It's crystal clear audio.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So you.

[Tom Segura]

I'll get like a fight with my wife, walk outside and be like this. And I'll be like, oh, I'm right on camera being like, yeah, you're up, man.

[Chris Masterjohn]

She's gonna build that into the script. Just watch out.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I need to grow up. You.

[Chris Williamson]

That's when you feed the ring doorbell camera into your X AI.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

No, they're everywhere. Everywhere. They're on, like, every street. I think there's more cameras in America than China if you include private ring doorbells and all that stuff.

[Andrew Santino]

Because I watch these crime things all the time. And it's like somebody commits a crime and they're always just like. Like either ring or like at a. You know, like when you go through a toll and it's like somebody gets, like. They always get caught so much quicker with technology. So you don't have like all the.

[Chris Williamson]

You know, we.

[Andrew Santino]

Growing up, you had like all these crazy killer BTK and Bundy and all these guys. And like, I feel like you don't. There's never those stories anymore, like, those.

[Chris Williamson]

But they get caught so quick.

[Andrew Santino]

That's what I'm saying.

[Chris Williamson]

Because the communication as well. So I was watching Worst X ever on Netflix and there was that Wade Wilson, the Deadpool Killer. This dude that was in a relationship with like four or five women at once.

[Andrew Santino]

Tight.

[Chris Masterjohn]

He do not recommend.

[Andrew Santino]

What. Huh? He.

[Chris Williamson]

He killed. He killed one of them and then just went on a spree. Like, killed one and got a woman off the street that was walking to after dropping her kids off at school, asked her for something, locked her in the car, strangled her to death.

[Andrew Santino]

Jesus.

[Chris Williamson]

Then left her in a field and then was like, just ready to go and do it again and again and again. But like, you. You just go on a run and then you get caught and then it's done, right?

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. Like, it used to be like 10 years, 20 years. You can't find somebody, you know, like.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. You should be able to move and, like, your family couldn't find. You could just go to another state.

[Andrew Santino]

But it sounds like you've. You thought of it.

[Tom Segura]

I know you used to be able to do that.

[Chris Williamson]

The fuel state.

[Tom Segura]

I will say I. Before I got married, I tried that where I was doing online dating. So you're like, we're just dating. It's casual. There's, like, something weird about online dating. Then I was dating, like, four or five women, and I remember being like, just be honest, man. I would, like, tell them the deal. And they'd be like, you get out of here. And I'd be like, wow, I'm never telling you this again. I'll keep this myself for now.

[Chris Williamson]

Do you mean tell them the deal? What do you mean?

[Tom Segura]

Well, like, you're going on online dates, and it's just, like, very fluid. And you're like, we're not like, boyfriend, girlfriend. We're just on dates. And, you know, it's like. Like, they can't really tell you not to date other people. And then I'd be. I remember, like, so. But then you come up with this, like, web of, like, relationships that's, like, not really that deep, but it's like. Like by the minute, gets deeper and deeper. And as soon as you're like, hey, here's. I'm actually dating other people, they're like, what the. And you're like, I don't even know you. Like this. We like.

[Andrew Santino]

How long would you, like, be into it before you would.

[Tom Segura]

A month.

[Andrew Santino]

A month? A month.

[Tom Segura]

Maybe. I don't know.

[Andrew Santino]

You'd gone out several times.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. I start feeling myself. I'm like, here's the deal, babe. And they're like, like, get out of my house. And I'm like, all right.

[Chris Williamson]

Tried the Dan approach for dating. Failed.

[Tom Segura]

Doesn't work.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. Watch this.

[Chris Masterjohn]

This is some type of gas station. And the awning or some type of structure completely collapses. Shoddy construction work. It's not quite infrastructure, but look who springs into action.

[Tom Segura]

Yes.

[Chris Masterjohn]

A black man loitering outside the gas station.

[Andrew Santino]

This is big.

[Chris Williamson]

Come up.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Hustles over to get himself tucked under to pretend he was caught in the wreckage for a settlement.

[Andrew Santino]

That's pretty quick.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean, that's two cartons of Newports and a thousand. I'll be out of here.

[Andrew Santino]

I'm not mad at that guy, dude. Like, that's. It's.

[Chris Williamson]

That's the American dream.

[Andrew Santino]

It's hilarious, too.

[Chris Williamson]

That is the American dream right there.

[Tom Segura]

I was thinking about this the other day, falling Is like a billion dollar industry falling, just falling. If you fall, there's billions of dollars you get paid out every year in America for.

[Chris Williamson]

Dude, gravity is free. This is the biggest life hack of our time. Why is no one arbitraging gravity?

[Chris Masterjohn]

That's my favorite thing I've heard all day.

[Andrew Santino]

Do you comedian Russell Peters?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

So he's like a very famous Indian Canadian comedian and his brother Clayton is his manager. And he told me he was at the CBS lot in LA for a meeting and it had rained and he slipped and fell. And he said the people at CBS were like, what do you want to do? And he was like, what? And he's like.

[Chris Williamson]

Like he'd hit someone's child with his car.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

No, they were like, we, we don't know. Know how to make this up to. He's like, I fell. Like I slipped and I fell. And they're like, so what should. Like, we will, we'll hire like the orthopedic surgeon. We'll, you know, we'll get like, we. Do you want to like, call your lawyer? He's like, I'm Canadian, we don't do that. So he's like, I fell and I have a bruise now and I'll be okay. But like the, the people on the lot were like, are you going to sue us? Us for falling?

[Chris Williamson]

Terrified.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, terrified.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Well, this is the merge of this plus cameras. When you get into an Uber now, there's like cameras going out, cameras going in. Like, you can bet every conversation you have is, you know, recorded.

[Chris Williamson]

That's the advantage of a Waymo. The advantage of a Waymo there.

[Chris Masterjohn]

They're recording everything.

[Tom Segura]

Definitely reported.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, well, it's. Who's it going to?

[Andrew Santino]

Huh?

[Chris Williamson]

Who's it going to? Indian data center.

[Chris Masterjohn]

China, dude.

[Tom Segura]

There's a guy I got in. This isn't great, but I got into Waymo with my wife and kids and we let the kids sit on our lap because we weren't like going far at all. And they called us right away and we're like, yo, what's up with those kids?

[Chris Williamson]

Kids?

[Tom Segura]

And I was like, what do you mean? And I was. They're like, how old are they? I was like, nine. My daughter's like, I'm six. I was like, shut up. Was the guy. The guy laughed.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Are those even your kids?

[Tom Segura]

The dude laughed and it was just like, just, you know, you get in the front, put their seatbelts on, you'll be good. We were like, just in our neighborhood going to like a pond.

[Chris Williamson]

Have you ever touched Anything in a Waymo. So I've been in the front seat and the.

[Tom Segura]

Myself.

[Chris Williamson]

The windscreen. Sorry, the windscreen was dirty. And I was like, I'm gonna help. I'm going to help. So I'm going to. I'm going to press the thing because it was on my side, you know, the windscreen wiper thing like that. Immediately, the car starts flashing. Says, like, do not touch any of the controls. We're pulling over. Pulled the car over to the side of the road, and then this, like, school teacher comes on and says, what are you doing? Like, why are you touching the fucking windscreen stalk? The windscreen thing was dirty and I thought, oh, it's. I started to get panicked. I was like, I feel like I'm intrigued. I felt like I'm being told off by a teacher in school. And they said, okay, we've put a mark on your account, and if this happens again, then your account will be removed from the Waymo. The interesting thing was it was my housemate's account, and he was sat behind me. So I got him a strike on fucking Waymo by trying to clean the. But, yeah, they do not want you touching.

[Andrew Santino]

Don't touch the shit.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I took one in San Francisco. It was wild. Cause I got in, I was like, this is really odd. And then it was going up through the. You know, through Pacific Heights, and. And I forgot there was no driver. Like, you know, obviously there's no driver. You're in the back seat. But it's. It's just wild. Like, it drives so well.

[Chris Williamson]

Can they go on motorways yet?

[Chris Masterjohn]

I don't know.

[Tom Segura]

No, I think it's all back roads.

[Andrew Santino]

I don't know.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Is that.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, I think just the highway.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, yeah, whatever. The fast, big ones.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, yeah. They'll be on soon, but I think it's just back roads now. I do the same thing. I forget there's not a driver. I'll get out. I'm like, thanks. Yeah, it's weird.

[Chris Masterjohn]

What does that tell us about drivers? Ubers?

[Tom Segura]

I don't know. Usually they kind of yap. I. I usually get yappy. Oh, yeah, Big time. I. I love it, honestly.

[Andrew Santino]

You love the conversation.

[Tom Segura]

I'm the one of the only people. I love chatting with the driver.

[Chris Williamson]

What do you ask him?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Whatever.

[Tom Segura]

I usually let them kind of do the thing, you know? Let them. It's that show combo. Or I might start if I'm, like, kind of bored in the back. I'll be like, how's it going? Is it busy?

[Andrew Santino]

And it depends.

[Tom Segura]

They'll just start going, they love to talk, man.

[Andrew Santino]

I got in one in an Uber and the guy was like, like, where are you from? And I go, austin. He goes, I was just in Dallas. He's like, the CIA killed jfk. And I was like, what?

[Chris Williamson]

Oh no.

[Andrew Santino]

And he's like, I did the whole tour. I can set you up. I go, I don't want to go on the tour. And he just starts going off. He was like, it was a 12 man job, I'm telling you. Like, I was like, okay. I have friends.

[Chris Williamson]

Alex Jones.

[Andrew Santino]

I mean it was, it was definitely a listener.

[Chris Masterjohn]

This is crazy. I have otherwise guys, completely rational friends who do not believe that the Challenger explosion was real. That's like their new thing. Yes. The. The number of conspiracies that actually hook now with other wise basically reasonable people is staggering.

[Andrew Santino]

Have you ever looked at any. And I mean any post from NASA on Instagram and gone to the comments?

[Chris Williamson]

No. You do this.

[Andrew Santino]

Any image, they're like, you know, like they'll be. Be like, there's people on the space station right now. Look at this image. And everyone's like, fake AI you guys are trying to ruin. Like you're tricking us.

[Chris Williamson]

This is bullshit.

[Andrew Santino]

Who's buying the shit? Like thousands of comments for anything. They.

[Tom Segura]

The word on the street is that NASA was founded by like a Satanist. That's what someone said. There was like a.

[Chris Masterjohn]

This is what I'm talking about.

[Tom Segura]

That could be true though. That could be true.

[Andrew Santino]

Sounds like you're a logical science based person.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, I believe I love Maui.

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, this is nice.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, but that's, that's.

[Tom Segura]

That's Mother's Day do sort by newest.

[Chris Williamson]

Here we go.

[Andrew Santino]

More propaganda.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Nice. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. Fighting Earth is. I mean that is. That could be a flat Earth.

[Andrew Santino]

Don't. All right, hold on. It's.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I mean I. There. I could see that. I could see them getting kind of crushed, especially at this. If it was the moon, they'd be getting attacked.

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, they have moon stuff.

[Tom Segura]

That's tough.

[Andrew Santino]

They have moon stuff for sure, man.

[Chris Williamson]

Brief us about. Go back up to that essay.

[Tom Segura]

It's actually pretty supportive. I'm saying I, I brief about.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I don't think people worry about were. Were wondering if the recent mission was fake. I think it's about, it's about the classic missions and there are some like just basic questions I wish NASA would just answer directly.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Like Rogan's always bringing up some very reasonable questions like how come the phone call was so clear and like from Just explain how was it that the phone call was made from. From the White House or from, you know, Cape Canaveral? Like, just explain the, the, the engineering behind it.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You know, you have to do it in detail. Do you feel like, look, they just say smells like. Yeah, exactly.

[Andrew Santino]

It's. Dude, it's everybody.

[Chris Williamson]

It's favorite Hollywood's actors at the top.

[Tom Segura]

That's kind of funny.

[Chris Williamson]

Unbelievable.

[Andrew Santino]

It's for. It's everything.

[Chris Williamson]

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[Andrew Santino]

Do you feel like any of the, let's say, big ones of the top 10 are legitimate to or interesting to you?

[Chris Masterjohn]

We need a category.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

What are the top 10? So many. Right. I mean, there's like, like the Pizzagate thing.

[Andrew Santino]

There's the adrenaline thing is a huge one.

[Chris Masterjohn]

The moon landing thing seems pretty easy for NASA to resolve if they actually care enough to resolve it. Right. You know, I don't doubt that the photos were, you know, there was some exposure adjustments perhaps done to those photos, but that's not what people are claiming.

[Tom Segura]

Right, right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

People are claiming this was fabricated. So it should be pretty straightforward. Right.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, here's. I'm always agnostic about it because it's like, yeah, it could totally be real, 100%. But if we were politically pressured to beat Russia, they could totally do a set and be like, yeah, we did

[Chris Masterjohn]

it, you know, I feel like the day that Elon claims that the moon landing was fake, True, I might get on board that hypothesis, because he knows a lot about this whole rocket space thing, and he's not afraid to say whatever.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

And, yeah, no one's thinking that. Elon.

[Chris Masterjohn]

He's not spending his time. Let's put this way. He's not spending his time going on it to go back there. He's got a different target.

[Chris Williamson]

And.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And I would think that he would raise his voice, but I don't know. Elon, he's not one of the people I was referring to earlier. I've never met him. We've been in the same physical space with other people at a gathering, but I've never actually spoken to him.

[Chris Williamson]

So there's definitely something that happens with conspiracies if you're sat around a table, especially with people that spend a good bit of time thinking about conspiracy theories, which I don't. But I love listening to people talk about them. And there's kind of like this race to the bottom of the iceberg where people go, oh, what, you think that Epstein killed himself? Well, really, what happened? Oh, you think that Epstein didn't kill himself? Well, actually, he transcended to a third, a fifth dimension and it all. It's like this weird one upmanship game of who's got the most intense deep 4chan rabbit hole that they've gone down

[Chris Masterjohn]

because he didn't kill himself. I mean, come on.

[Chris Williamson]

There was a suicide note. There was a suicide note that was written like, his roommate.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Have you seen what his roommate did? His roommate's like, an ex cop. Cop, Right. Who's, I think, doing four life sentences.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, the cellmate that was the murder.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. Like, I'm gonna charge that guy, you know?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

The guards were chilling.

[Chris Masterjohn]

There's somebody going upstairs. Like, also, he was a narcissist. Everyone agrees on that. Like, they don't tend to kill themselves. There's something just. I mean, who knows?

[Chris Williamson]

Maybe.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Maybe he was serious. I. I saw that note the other day online, and maybe he was like, okay, this is no fun. I'm out. But, like, does not seem consistent with everything else.

[Andrew Santino]

There's things that lend itself to. I mean, he also basically changed his will, what, two or three days before where. Yeah, he passed everything to his brother, which you could interpret as somebody getting ready to check out the hyoid bone that snapped. If you talk to certain forensic pathologists, they say it's more consistent with a homicide than a suicide. The way the force with which it was broken.

[Chris Williamson]

Right.

[Andrew Santino]

So that lends itself to. To murder, not suicide. But yeah, it just kind of depends on.

[Tom Segura]

I retard Max and conspiracy theories. I go, maybe. I don't know.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Literally, I don't know. That way everyone, it's. You're just perfectly in the middle.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Okay.

[Tom Segura]

I have no. I genuinely, if I.

[Chris Masterjohn]

If you're agnostic.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I have no idea. Like, it's.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I.

[Tom Segura]

It's plausible that it was all a giant government cover up also. I don't know. Look, I have no idea.

[Chris Masterjohn]

People I know that have worked literally just like in the government doing, you know, like spooky shit, like online spooky shit. And that kind of thing will tell you that the government is pretty inefficient even at the highest levels, that it would be very hard to do clandestine things within the most effective organizations there, sub organizations. So if somebody wanted to run countercurrent to like everyone around them and be the. You know, that's tough. You could get a small collection of people. But then it's hard to keep a secret. Right. As we know human beings.

[Tom Segura]

I don't know.

[Chris Masterjohn]

The Epstein thing was wild. I have to say that that blew a hole in the Internet while you had people from the right who were on that list and in the emails on the left. What was so interesting to me is that kind of like the video theory that I had earlier, you know, which is just a thought and a theory, really. The files were interesting even though they were incomplete because they were real time correspondence. It wasn't like I heard someone say this and then they said that it wasn't a deposition. Right. These were the real emails at the time.

[Chris Williamson]

Could have fed it into a chatbot and had a conversation.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. Have you seen this thing? There's this like J mail where they turned all the conversations and then they have another one which is a plot where you can put anyone's name in and it shows the number of conversations they had with him over time. Like, it's. It's wild. Yeah, yeah. And you know, he sat at the nexus of a lot of different people organizations. And it transcended, again, right, Left. It transcended academia. I mean, he was connected. He was. So what's wild is the people who were approaching him and wanting his time, many of them had tons of money, tons of public accolades or private accolades. Like, they didn't. Like, I don't understand how it is that people just continue to seek him out. It was wild.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. Really interesting. Crazy that somebody was that connected to so many different facets of. Of people in life and they overlooked

[Chris Masterjohn]

the fact that he had already been convicted of.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, that was the wild one where it was just kind of like if you didn't know that whatever. But like when people are like, yeah, this is public record, you're like, yes.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So like not a conspir theory. And you can look this up. There's a guy I know because he was kind of peripheral to the science community. I never met him. He was actually kind of a lousy failed scientist named Al Secel. This great big fat guy who studied visual illusions. Right. But his data were always kind of. Eh. Anyway, he ended up marrying Ghislaine Maxwell's sister. He was in charge with a small group of other people of basically trying to bury Epstein's sex offender status after he, you know, was convicted the first time.

[Chris Williamson]

He was the one that helped to get all of the headlines out.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

So they created like name. It would be on the.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Whatever sports or whatever. And so it kept putting this stuff out.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

What happened to him? He was found dead at the bottom of a cliff in like 2015 or something. The French government won't comment on cause of death. Like there are a lot of dead people around this.

[Andrew Santino]

There's a. Another conspiracy that there was interest that like I was like, oh, I didn't know what happened. I felt like that. You know, when you go like you, you pick up on stories but you don't really follow it. Which was the, the attempt. The Butler assassination attempt, you know, of Epson. No, no, Trump. Oh, where you're like, oh, this guy, you know, was a shooter. And then it just kind of.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You mean the recent thing?

[Andrew Santino]

The. Not the first one. The first one. The one where he was campaigning.

[Chris Williamson]

Three now. Okay, so hold on.

[Chris Masterjohn]

There's the, there's that. The one in Pennsylvania.

[Andrew Santino]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Chris Masterjohn]

The outdoor one.

[Andrew Santino]

That's what I'm talking about. The ear. That's what I'm talking about.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Okay.

[Andrew Santino]

That one.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Have we ever seen a photo of that. That guy?

[Andrew Santino]

Well, the thing is they, the investigation was just like shut down. Like they just go, this is what happened. And then there's no further investigation behind his.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's a weird.

[Andrew Santino]

Just.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean it's what he's like, I'll handle the punishment.

[Andrew Santino]

Why don't we have more of. Of this story? Like it just kind of modern day assassination attempt at. With a rifle at an. Out of a. A former president who's campaigning to.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Do we even know the Name of that.

[Tom Segura]

The person who's supposed to do who it is.

[Andrew Santino]

I remember who that is.

[Chris Masterjohn]

That's kind of wild.

[Andrew Santino]

That's crazy. That is crazy.

[Chris Williamson]

It. It fully evaporated.

[Tom Segura]

It's called the memory hole.

[Andrew Santino]

And then I don't know if this is true. They said that like, that as he was being helped up, that the flag was being lowered for the photo.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I don't buy that. I mean I don't buy that I look it up. But if we were to. If we were to.

[Andrew Santino]

I'm retard. Maxi.

[Chris Williamson]

If we were to Google.

[Chris Masterjohn]

If we were to Google what is the first and last name name or put into AI now we don't Google. We put into AI or chat GPT. Right?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

If you were to put into chat GPT, what is the first and last name of the person who attempted to assassinate President Trump but grazed his ear with a bullet instead? Does anything come up? Are you guys like afraid to do this?

[Tom Segura]

It definitely comes up for sure.

[Chris Masterjohn]

His name comes up.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I would have any history on the guy, who he is? Are we.

[Andrew Santino]

That's what we're too afraid to do. Shut down.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Can we do that?

[Tom Segura]

I would like to see nobody.

[Andrew Santino]

We're just like. That's what happens. Happen.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, the mad is like Peter, it was such a quick news cycle that every. Even the public forgot about it. And this is what people say about the Iran thing, that the Epstein files were getting too spicy. So we're going to invade Iran and if you do the Google trend data looking at search volume for Epstein and then search volume for Iran, they just fucking cross over. Matthew Crooks.

[Chris Masterjohn]

All right, so what do we know about Thomas Matthew Crooks? Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Fucking sweet.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Fucking like where do you go to high school? What's his. You know, what does he do?

[Andrew Santino]

Well, can you.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Can you.

[Andrew Santino]

Was that investigation shut down? Like, was the further. Because there really is no.

[Chris Masterjohn]

If any of you guys disappear in the next 48 hours, I know we're completely aft.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Andrew Santino]

Concluded. Okay.

[Chris Masterjohn]

He acted alone. No evidence of co conspirators, broader plot. Officials said they never established a clear motive.

[Chris Williamson]

I think the motive is nothing else.

[Chris Masterjohn]

The motive was to kill the President. Yeah, duh.

[Andrew Santino]

So the FBI criminal case was official.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Is there a photo. If you just said image of. Of this Thomas Matthew Crooks because somebody went to school with him, somebody knows him, someone's chat gpting because she's his ex. I mean, come on. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

It's funny because the last assassination attempt, I remember being like boring. It was just. Wasn't even fun weird.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So they just kind of let it. Just want like.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, it seems strange.

[Chris Williamson]

Thomas Crooks retard Maxon.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. Definitely not look maxing.

[Chris Masterjohn]

No, I think that's not the. That's not the young version of the. Of the looks. Maxing guy.

[Andrew Santino]

Jesus fuck.

[Chris Williamson]

He was. He was 20 years old.

[Andrew Santino]

So young to do, like, wild, man.

[Chris Williamson]

Taken too soon, man. Face caved in too soon.

[Tom Segura]

Also, how do you know where the pre. Like, exactly where the president's going to be?

[Andrew Santino]

That whole thing was so fucking weird, man. You know, you have, like, the Secret Service snipers everywhere, and the guy's just like, I'll climb up on that roof.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. At this thing.

[Andrew Santino]

And people are like, there's a guy up. You can see people going, like, there's a guy up there right now.

[Chris Williamson]

Ladder.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Well, he didn't have as much Secret Service then, right. Because he was running and there was, you know, Secret Service working for a different administration. But I don't know what the rules are.

[Tom Segura]

They all blamed it on that girl Secret Service. That was the worst part. They're like, is that a fucking girl?

[Chris Williamson]

When I.

[Tom Segura]

That's what happened. Everyone was like, oh, obviously.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I had an ext. Door neighbor. I. I don't want to mention who it was on camera. He lived next door, and so the Secret Service were parked out in front as long as one of his close relatives was president. And so I would talk to those guys. Guys and gals. They're like really nice people. And I asked them, I'm like, you know, how do you deal with your political affiliation versus who you're pretending? They just like, it's a job, just like military. We talk about it like we just. We take orders. They had a good post. This was, you know, in Southern California. So they liked that post. And they'd rotate in, rotate out, and, you know, some of them will be a little open about. But it was interesting. Secret Service was started as an attempt as a. A unit within the government. Government against counterfeiting.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, counterfeit.

[Tom Segura]

That's how it started.

[Chris Williamson]

What?

[Chris Masterjohn]

That's how they started bills.

[Tom Segura]

Secret Service.

[Andrew Santino]

They still visit you today if you have counterfeit bills.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, they handle counterfeiting.

[Chris Williamson]

Did George Floyd get popped? Was he not using counterfeit money?

[Tom Segura]

No. At a local level, it's like, you got to be counterfeiting a lot. So if you had a local level, they can just turn you out. But if you have. If you're, like, actually producing, you're the

[Chris Williamson]

guy that George Floyd bought from. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

If you're doing it on a scale that's causing like, even like a, you know, a larger economic dent in the economy. They use it a lot in drug, like, drug sales. It's like you use counterfeit bills. It's like you can't tell the cop. Props. Like, somebody gave me counterfeits, so.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Wow.

[Chris Williamson]

Originally created in 1865 to fight counterfeit currency, not to protect the president.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

I know a guy who did counterfeit bills in high school.

[Chris Williamson]

Was he any good?

[Andrew Santino]

They were terrible.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

What does that mean?

[Andrew Santino]

Well, I mean, his. His. His versions of. Of like he was trying to make twenties at the house.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

And like, crazy.

[Tom Segura]

You can bleach. You can bleach. He got.

[Andrew Santino]

He got secret.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, I. I gotta be careful with this because I. I don't want. I don't want to reactivate any old web searches. I don't have anything to do with this. But I went to high school with a couple of really smart kids who had some really smart parents who got really smart about making fake IDs. And there's a big business for that in college.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Right. Because a lot of kids go off to college. Like, I was 17 when I first went off to college. Right. And so turned 18 my first year. So you're not buying alcohol. You gotta get someone to buy it for you. And so they were selling fake IDs out of their dorm. It was in the early 90s. And they did time, like, real time. And these were, you know, not hardened criminal kids. Before going in, it turns out that, you know, someone got. And this is wild, they had this going for a long time. It was great money for them. And someone got pulled over and accidentally handed over a fake id. Cop ran it, you know, ran it through the system that laddered up, and eventually it was an FBI sting. And there's this kid and his, like, cohort.

[Andrew Santino]

They did really rounded up the poll like you do.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I remember the. So, like, the fake ID thing is no joke because it's counterfeiting.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

I got pulled over at 16, and I had a fake, like, a good fake for the time. And that moment where I was, like, reaching into the wallet and I. That's my fake. And you. And my reel was here. I had to reach behind and give the. And like, that moment, you're like, yeah,

[Chris Williamson]

is that super legal to give?

[Andrew Santino]

Legal.

[Chris Williamson]

Super illegal to hand over?

[Andrew Santino]

I think it's counterfeiting.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, if you've. If it's like a. Whatever it is, falsifying documents, yeah. You get in a lot of trouble also.

[Chris Masterjohn]

If people go and buy alcohol and then get into a car accident, there's all this liability. This is like the parents who, like, buy their kids booze, they're like, well, I don't want them, you know, I'm gonna. I'd rather have them drinking at home and they'll give, you know, like, booze to their kid and their friends. And then a kid drives home and gets into an accident. Like, parents have done real time. Yeah, actually, there's. We're really going down the trench. But, you know, there are a number of instances that are.

[Chris Williamson]

Have more yerba matate. Good.

[Chris Masterjohn]

What's that?

[Chris Williamson]

Have more yerba matate. I'm keep you.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, yeah. My filter just goes. My GABA level drops at 5pm Anyway, people who know me, like, after 5pm, I'll say whatever. Exactly. We record podcasts early in the day, too. I'm on two hours back. I'm still California time. I'm not full Texan yet.

[Tom Segura]

You're good.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You guys are going to have to teach me, you know, the Texan thing.

[Andrew Santino]

There's a whole thing, man.

[Chris Williamson]

Really take you out to indoctrination.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna go.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Is it more about dropping the California stuff or you add in the Texan stuff?

[Andrew Santino]

I think you gotta add some Texas.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, okay.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. Oh, man.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You guys, where were you before?

[Chris Williamson]

Were you California?

[Andrew Santino]

I was LA. 19 years. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Okay. So you can teach him the transition.

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, man. Yeah, I got a 9 mm I'm gonna give you when we get out of here.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Oh, man.

[Andrew Santino]

Get your concealed carry going.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean, I don't mind guns, but I'm not into guns. Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

They got. They do kind of scare me. I used to.

[Andrew Santino]

I like.

[Tom Segura]

Like, I used to just have my brother's gun for a while and I would, like, look at it and be like, it's scary. I would be, like, high in my house.

[Chris Masterjohn]

They increased the probability somebody had shot significantly. Yeah, exactly.

[Tom Segura]

I would just be stoned and I, like, would just be a. There was, like, a gun on my table and I was like, that's crazy. I, like, never touched it.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's a device for killing people.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Or things.

[Tom Segura]

Exactly. It's scary.

[Chris Masterjohn]

No, I believe in the. The right to bear arms. But where were we?

[Tom Segura]

You were saying about the parents who feed the kids alcohol.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Get. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of stuff now about parents doing stuff to, you know, give their kids access to something, and then the kid doing something really stupid and parents doing real time.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You know, and It's.

[Andrew Santino]

It.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's a whole different landscape now in terms of, like, when I was growing up, like, every kid in high school, like, he'd end up, like, drinking on a weekend or something. A little bit here or there. And back then, it was the Mothers Against Drunk Driving. It was all the drunk driving thing. Now that apparently there. There's a lot less death due to drunk driving because. Uber.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, right. Kids don't drink as much either.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Good.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, it's great.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm not a big fan of alcohol.

[Tom Segura]

Well, yeah, and it's also crazy if you're like. You got to think about. If you. If you like, I, like, drank in high school, college, but if someone had a camera on me at 18 when I was drunk, that's. That's like, you can just ruin your whole life for what you say anything.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

What you say anything.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

So it's like, if you're a kid now, you're like, I gotta kind of keep it a little tight.

[Andrew Santino]

But then, like, the THC stuff is way up. Right? That's what I read that the consumption of edibles or, like, especially the beverages that have them are also.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Some people can do it. Look, my whole thing is, like, people think I'm like, anti cannabis or anti alcohol. Like, you can have a couple drinks a week and be fine if you do a bunch of other things correctly. We're talking about adults, right? With kids and with adults. The cannabis thing is tricky because some people can do it and they're. They're all right. Other people who have a predisposition to psychosis, like, they can end up with some permanent psychosis. People are predispositioned to bipolar. I mean, it's a real thing. And it got very political for a while. Like, I got attacked for saying this when being pro cannabis was associated with one political party. Then when the Pendulum. It's interesting that the Trump administration. I am totally apolitical. Like, I'll just come out like, I'm a double hater. I don't like anything I see.

[Tom Segura]

So that's a great.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm like, I grew up punk rocker. Like, fuck them all. Like, honestly, like, that's an activated version

[Chris Williamson]

of you with conspiracy theories.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, yeah. Double haters.

[Chris Williamson]

I don't know about.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm a double hater.

[Chris Williamson]

Like, I don't know.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm a double hater because I see certain things I like in certain people and what they're doing, and then I see something and I go, you got to be kidding me. And I see that on both Sides. So it's very hard for me to reconcile that. Right. And it's not like music. I can't just be like, all right,

[Chris Williamson]

well, not for me.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Kanye, you know, amazing musician, you know. You know, but these other things are a little bit like, I don't know, you know, maybe look into that. But there's a, you know, but the cannabis thing has gone from it was a very left associated thing.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

To now the Trump administration has been making some serious efforts to, you know, legalize psychedelics like ibogaine, which is not a recreational psychedelic. You know, a lot of liberty around substances. And then, then the left will, will sort of, the news will, the left leaning news will kind of print against cannabis. Then they'll go back and forth, which just tells me one thing.

[Andrew Santino]

Right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Because the right side does this too, which is, is that they have no heart, they have no stance.

[Andrew Santino]

Right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Right. It's all just algorithmic ping pong, blow with the wind. Yeah. So the reality is some people should use cannabis if they want to. No problem. But I hear from lots of in particular, moms of guys are in their 20s who, including some people who are doing very well in life and now their kids are like in full blown psychotic episodes that won't reverse.

[Andrew Santino]

Jesus.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And it's very hard to know who that's going to be. Right. But certainly there are people who can use cannabis. No problem.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, even if it's not, oh, it's caused some long term psychosis problem for, for me, it's not exactly a performance enhancer.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Right.

[Chris Williamson]

Like this happened, I think in, was it the 1700s or the 1600s when coffee houses first started in, in Britain. Yeah. And because people used to go and drink ale all day, they're just fucking drunk, wasted. You're not going to get anything done when you're wasted.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

And then coffee comes along and people are like, what's all of this fucking productivity? I got in front of me and it's kind of the same. You go, well, cannabis. No one's died from overdosing on thc. Apart from. I know, you get into a car, you fall down some sets.

[Chris Masterjohn]

There's no road rage from caffeine. Well, I mean, there's road rage from caffe, but no one's coming home and like beating up their spouse because they drank too much coffee.

[Tom Segura]

I could be the first dude.

[Chris Williamson]

I got to show you this video.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Seemed pretty mellow. Look at me.

[Tom Segura]

No, if I have enough, if I have enough, my wife's bad.

[Chris Williamson]

Have you ever seen the video of

[Tom Segura]

when you're definitely drinking coffee.

[Chris Williamson]

Drink driving. Ban drink driving. Got introduced in the us Just no drinks at all. Yeah, so watch this.

[Tom Segura]

That's bullshit, bro. Get out of here.

[Andrew Santino]

Oh. Oh, yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Restrict drinking and driving here is viewed

[Chris Masterjohn]

by some as downright undemocratic. It's kind of getting common, this when a fella can't put in a hard day's work, put in 11, 12 hours

[Chris Williamson]

a day and then get in your

[Chris Masterjohn]

truck and at least run one or two beers. They're making it laws where you can't drink when you want to baby in the passenger seat when you're driving. And pretty soon we're gonna be calm in this country.

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Unreal. Just. Well, every best I will say, if

[Tom Segura]

you had worked outside all day for 11 hours, you can drink one beer on your way home. That's fair. One ice cold beer anywhere.

[Andrew Santino]

Dude, you could get that passed here now.

[Tom Segura]

One ice cold beer. One. One Road dog.

[Andrew Santino]

But, you know.

[Chris Williamson]

Excuse me, sir. That looks like an ambient beer you're

[Andrew Santino]

not allowed to have. In the. In the 80s, we would be in a. In a station wagon in the very back, no seatbelt, just all my siblings and. Yeah, like five of us. And then like a semi would come up to here and like, our parents were never like, this is dangerous. That was just. Just like normal seat belts.

[Tom Segura]

And when we were a little, they would go, every have their seat belts on and we'd all go, we'd laugh because they're like, I'm not wearing a seat belt. Of course, everyone, my whole family held it down. Like wearing a seat belt was like, weak. It's like, what are you scared? What are you scared? Why you wearing a seat belt?

[Chris Williamson]

Yes. Yes.

[Chris Masterjohn]

What do you. What do you.

[Tom Segura]

I now I wear them.

[Chris Masterjohn]

How old are you?

[Tom Segura]

40?

[Chris Williamson]

38?

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm 50.

[Andrew Santino]

You're 47. I know.

[Tom Segura]

Full of.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You're 47.

[Andrew Santino]

We think it was 55. Yeah, it's 47, man.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Here I thought you were my again. I'm the senior in the house. HE LAUGHS that's. I don't know why, man. You look great.

[Andrew Santino]

You. When I shave, I look 46.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Dude, I'm just getting you back because of that one family gathering. You sold me out.

[Chris Williamson]

What happened?

[Chris Masterjohn]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes. No, Tom.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Nope.

[Andrew Santino]

Yes.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Nope. No. I'll walk out. I'm like, legit. I'll walk out of here. I'll walk out of here. I've been pretty open today. I like to think that's true. Pretty loose, a little open. I'm Only on my first mate.

[Tom Segura]

You have your list?

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's actually my seventh mate.

[Andrew Santino]

Seventh?

[Chris Williamson]

That's why you're so spicy right now.

[Tom Segura]

That's fair.

[Chris Williamson]

Okay, Jared, you ever considered that you might have a drinking problem?

[Andrew Santino]

I don't consider a lot, Chris.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, you drank an entire case of Athletic Brewing Co last night. But they're non alcoholic and that's not a problem. Sorry, man, I. I just kept chugging

[Andrew Santino]

away for the regret to creep in. Never happened.

[Chris Williamson]

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[Andrew Santino]

Bottoms up. Did you lift?

[Tom Segura]

Huh?

[Andrew Santino]

Did you lift today?

[Chris Masterjohn]

No, I lifted yesterday.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, that's why. Okay. Yeah, he's usually a little more chill if he.

[Chris Masterjohn]

This is true.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Jocko was moody with me the first time that I did an episode with him and someone tweeted about it a couple of weeks after and was like, hey, you seemed like a little bit off. And he's like, yeah, I didn't get the lift in at 4 in the morning. Like, fucking cry.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I have to say, you know, there are a number of people on the Internet that I don't know and I don't know if how they present is actually who they are. Like, but how Jocko shows up online is exactly who he is.

[Chris Williamson]

No, that's not true. That's. We spent what, four days. Four days with him in three days with him. December. And on the way back, the final plane ride that we had home there was a little bit of. A little bit more looseness. It was like, well, yeah, maybe 5

[Chris Masterjohn]

or 10% more, but he's just an aggro dude.

[Chris Williamson]

True.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. He's got a lot of energy. Anyway, so my question is this whole thing about obsession with the 90s, like these posts of like, oh, this is what it was like, then. And no one's got phones. And I have to say, even though, you know, I was born in 75 and loved the 90s, grateful that I was a teen in the 90s, I have to say, the whole thing irritates me a lot. I never want to be a part of that generation of people that's talking about how great it was and these poor kids. Like, we're like 15 and 16. Your kids are younger than that, right? I don't know how young your kids. You don't even know who your kids are. I'm. Speak for yourself.

[Andrew Santino]

They're still on Love Island.

[Chris Williamson]

He abandoned on the bed, turned your life into Love Island.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Listen, they contacted me. No, no, I'm kidding. So these kids, now, they have to hear about, like, oh, how great it was then. It's gotta be annoying as shit. Of course it's gotta be annoying as shit. We should just cut it out.

[Chris Williamson]

But it can be the truth, right? It could also be the truth.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Like, we're gonna revert to that.

[Chris Williamson]

I understand. Right. So speaking as a Brit who's moved. I moved four years ago.

[Andrew Santino]

Right.

[Chris Williamson]

To a America. When I think about golden era America. And I. You know, when I think about this most, when I'm driving down the highway and I see some huge industrial estate, some massive fucking factory that probably makes, like, pipes or something, and there is a American flag and a Texan flag that would cover a small house. Right. Flat. Just. Just for the sake of it. And I'm like, fuck, yeah. Like, that's fucking sick, dude. And then that immediately makes me think about Limp Bizkit and WWF and, like, the Stone Cold Stunner and, like, Transformers move. I'm aware that we're bleeding into the thousands, but, like, 90s shit, like, cool.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Like, technically, you're a millennial, right?

[Andrew Santino]

Is that right?

[Chris Williamson]

Technically? Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

Okay. I mean, you could just.

[Chris Williamson]

You can.

[Andrew Santino]

It can be that, like, hey, the 90s was an awesome decade and still just not be the person who's like, you don't get it. You guys are doing everything wrong.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So there were things that genuinely sucked. Sucked that genuinely sucked. Like, you didn't have access to things. Like all the health stuff now, like, you had to work so hard to find, like, creatine. It was like, you know, you could find cocaine more easily than you could find, like, creatine.

[Tom Segura]

They would cut cocaine with creatine.

[Chris Williamson]

Really?

[Tom Segura]

It's a cut?

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

No.

[Tom Segura]

Swear to God.

[Andrew Santino]

Really?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. Oh, that's if you're buying cocaine, if you're selling it. Got it got it. But if I bought creatine, it wasn't cut with cocaine.

[Tom Segura]

No, no, no.

[Andrew Santino]

Wow.

[Chris Williamson]

That would be a deal.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Exactly.

[Andrew Santino]

These gains.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But you know, like if you wanted information, you had to like wire somebody money and then do a phone call and then do all. It was, it was tough. Like it was like things took more work and it took, you know, and things people don't realize. It's like, okay, maybe housing costs were lower, but things were also very stratified back then. You know, it was like lifestyles are rich and famous. There was, there was a big gap then too. There was just a lot of cool stuff happening at the kind of lower end where you felt like things were really create the whole indie. Indie music, indie movies, etcetera, etcetera. You could do cool shit for not a lot of money. And people were building and consuming cool stuff for not a lot of money. Yeah, but I don't believe that it was, you know, like it was, it was great for what it was. But like now's now like I feel bad for these teens are like, oh my God, what am I supposed to do? Like ditch my phone? 24. They're not.

[Andrew Santino]

And that goes like the like entertainment like. Because entertainment what comes out decade to decade. Like the 70s was great music and film. The 80s was trash movies like most like shit movies compared to Ghostbusters. Well you can, you can find good but like if you compare decade to decade 90s much better decade for. For entertainment. So some of that is like, you know, you can find the thing that you are like I miss that. Right. I miss like the what was being put out. Music and entertainment I think for the 90s was like pretty incredible. Like great to rewatch.

[Chris Williamson]

Right. Which quality of life isn't in the same.

[Andrew Santino]

And then you. But I mean you can associate. You can be like the 90s. And what you're really thinking is like I loved like the music. I was listening to the vibe of the. The decade. But it doesn't mean that like everything was amazing.

[Chris Williamson]

Do you think that in 20 years time people will look back at 20, 26 and go, dude, fucking golden era.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, somebody will.

[Andrew Santino]

Somebody will.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Because it's happened in every generation before. Yeah, I mean we'll be, you know, hopefully not senile, but we'll be. You'll be very old or dead. Yeah, I mean dead.

[Tom Segura]

I. I do miss though, like, yeah,

[Chris Masterjohn]

you'll be a little less. I know, I know.

[Andrew Santino]

I'll be in my 70s. I will.

[Chris Masterjohn]

He's walking around with fake IDs. 47.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, 47.

[Tom Segura]

I. I do miss. Like, I remember before smartphones when, like, if I had, like, nothing to do, my brain would just go into, like, I would just daydream. And now I'm like, if I stop doing anything, I'm like, pop it right away. I'm like, there's a thing I need to look at. It kind of bothers me a little

[Chris Masterjohn]

bit, but easy to numb out and get pulled into drama online. That's like, the two. I think of it, like, I literally have to have this visual. Actually drew this picture for myself, because that's how I, like, consolidate things. I want to do and not do is like, I think I get up in the morning and there's, like, this narrow path. And on either side, it's just like, whoa. Down. Down to no productivity. Nothing useful in life. And one side is drama, other people's drama.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And the other side is just numbing out. Yeah. And you gotta stay on the path. You gotta walk this really narrow path. And then it's interesting because the algorithms are very, very good. And so you go, all right, well, I've been good. I'm just like, get on for a second. And it'll be like, fight video on X. That's just insane. And then you're like, I don't want to see this. You know? And it'll be like, cute video. And it'll find your button, so that'll just find it. It'll find it. Yeah. It's like a borderline girlfriend, man. She'll figure it out. And your next thing you know, it's like three hours later, and you're like, what happened?

[Andrew Santino]

It's a cycle. You get on the cycle. Do you notice, by the way? Because I think it's especially for, like, going to hotels, right? We stay in hundreds of hotels that. It happened. It started, like, a few years ago where I realized one day I was like, oh. Oh. I've been in, you know, 200 hotels this year, and I never turned on the TV once.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Never.

[Andrew Santino]

And it used to be, right? You'd get into the hotel and boom, like, you'd see what's on. I was like, man, like a year went by, and I'm like, I've been in so many, and I've never. Because you just pick up your phone and you're just. It's just like an ornament now. It's just sits there.

[Tom Segura]

If I do a.

[Andrew Santino]

Never goes on.

[Tom Segura]

If I stay in hotels for a weekend and don't look at porn, I feel like I'm a saint. I leave, I'm like, they should literally just like canonize.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, you pay for like, they're there.

[Tom Segura]

No, I'm just on your phone. I'm saying because it's like you have. You're just isolated in this bunker. You get off stage, you're like, I'm wired.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

You're like, I need to go to bed. I know exactly how I can fall asleep right now.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And you go like, no, I'm not gonna. I'll do it like 4% of the time. And I'm just like, man, they're gonna canonize me after. It's important. Impossible.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It sounds like you're open about this with your wife. Otherwise she just knows about it now. She.

[Tom Segura]

I've talked to her about it and now I'm off it. I'm off. I'm off the porn. But I always, I ask for her help.

[Chris Williamson]

How was that? How was the transition off the pond?

[Tom Segura]

Dude, it's way better because, you know, now I'm for. I swear to God, once, once you're 40, it's like 20s. You could. You can have like infinite boners. You can be watching porn. Even knows now, like, I need to be ready if I'm fapped out.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And the wife and I get the big call from. I'm like, no. So now I'm just always. I stay ready at all times. I'm like, just let me know.

[Chris Williamson]

That's it. Dud.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm just kidding.

[Tom Segura]

I'm going to try that as well.

[Chris Williamson]

Is that one of the. Is that one of the life hacks that comedians know that the health experts haven't gotten done to that. If you've just done a high stimulation activity that just a fat before bed is.

[Tom Segura]

That's, that's, that's universal now. It's got to be universal knowledge that

[Chris Williamson]

I haven't heard that on the Cuban

[Tom Segura]

Lab podcast, Fat before sleep. It's called a fapnap. Never heard of a fat nap.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I've never heard.

[Andrew Santino]

We've been doing this for generations.

[Chris Williamson]

My daddy was a fat napper and his daddy before.

[Andrew Santino]

Well, the thing is, is like every, every comic, probably every performer, like music or otherwise, but certainly for comedian, like the adrenaline spike, you getting off stage, like usually like somebody different people get into something. Like there's the guys that go just drink their faces off or do drugs or like eating or go out all night or jerk off. Like somebody like you have this, this rush after and it's like the night's over. Like you just like go back.

[Chris Masterjohn]

No girlfriends or wives on tour. I mean, girlfriend or wife on tour?

[Chris Williamson]

No, I mean, you are really Freud, slipping your way through this podcast.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I have one girlfriend. I said I'm addressing. Yeah, I'm addressing the honest.

[Chris Williamson]

Can you.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But I'm not alive. I'm also not a live show guy. When I finish a podcast, like a solo episode of my podcast, I want to collapse, man.

[Chris Williamson]

Can you explain what's happening neurologically, biochemically, when the being on stage, high stimulus, a lot of focus, a lot of adrenaline, positive feedback and then what, what is that? What's going on?

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean, in a word, or arousal, right? I mean the catechol, dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine. The catecholam is this little kit of, of chemicals that are made in our brain and body, right? Different ones, different places, et cetera. We don't have to get into that. But that cocktail is what's released under, you know, high arousal situations. Some are scary situations, some are exciting. But when you're a performer and you gain that feedback, then yeah, you got a lot of dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine. So you're a alert your focus. So broadly speaking, right? The science crowd is getting a little pissed at me for this, but broadly speaking, the dopamine thing is going to want you having like more of whatever you're experiencing, right? Higher. Higher threshold. Higher threshold, okay. Epinephrine, which is adrenaline, makes your body alert and norepinephrine in released in the brain and you know, and this is again, generalizations, increases focus for the thing that you're, you know, that you're putting, pursuing, right? So you get off stage and those things are cranked to level 11. And I mean, you could do some long exhale breathing, you could do a sauna, but obviously you're out on tour, you want to bring it down a notch and you got to get on the bus or the plane the next day and go. And so. Yeah, and you know, it can be

[Andrew Santino]

hard to sleep, man.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Look, evolution, you know, hardwired circuits so that the desire to, you know, ride this roller coaster up to this peak and then crash down again, you know, and make sex, you know, ideally with somebody else, you know, but if apparently you're alone, you know, you're trying to find a way to do that, right? So, you know, that's, it's. That brings you into a so called lower arousal, parasympathetic state, right? And as dopamine goes up, testosterone goes up in women and men. Okay. And then after orgasm, dopamine goes down and. And a hormone, which is basically a hormone, prolactin, goes up and that sets the refractory period during which time you need a higher stimulus thing to get you aroused.

[Chris Williamson]

Coolidge effect.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, the Coolidge effect. Like in roosters, this whole thing, if you trade out the hens, then they can continue to copulate over and over again. This to some extent is, is true in humans, but, you know, they're. They're also. I sort of joked about the Tadal film and that was, it was indeed a joke. But there, there's some interesting things. Like if you want to play this game, you can. Although I'm not sure I want to encourage your porn habit. No, no, no, I'm not a porn guy. But when you were saying, like trying to. The refractory period. The refractory period can be shortened. Yeah, right. By blunting the prolactin response. That can be done with taking something like P5P, which is A. It's related to vitamin B6 and it blunts prolactin somewhat. You know, there are drugs which I don't recommend people take, but these prescription drugs like cabergoline and things like that which in inhibit prolactin. And you know, there are communities like, like in, in the, like in the gay community, like, there's a big use of some of these drugs to have sort of kind of marathon sex type thing. They'll use stimulants like meth. Right. I have a friend who's a former meth addict. He happens to be gay. And I was like, well, I don't understand. I've never done meth. But I'm like, what's the deal with meth? And he's like, oh, the idea is, you know, marathon sex, right? And then when people get sober from meth, hopefully they lose their sex drive for a long, long time. These systems need to be recalibrated. We're talking about extremes with drugs, right? One, One reason why I'm not one of these, like, all porn is bad, but one reason why I, I personally am just not a fan of porn is I think it can, you can dial in pretty much a higher and higher threshold thing without really having to do the work of going out and finding a relationship. And I think a lot of younger guys who aren't married who don't have a relationship, they don't know how to use it kind of judiciously. Right. And there's no.

[Andrew Santino]

And.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And it never says no to them either. So a lot of issues with porn in the younger, younger crowd.

[Andrew Santino]

So I mean that's like for as comedians. I think I feel like your 20s into your 30s is probably the time of the most consumption. It is like you're alone.

[Chris Williamson]

Of porn.

[Andrew Santino]

Of porn. Like you're alone.

[Tom Segura]

You're a loser.

[Andrew Santino]

You're a loser. You're also in a strange place. You know what I mean? You have. This isn't my environment. Right. And then you throw in the performing and getting bumped up from that and just being like looking for someone for

[Chris Williamson]

no one wanting to fuck you.

[Andrew Santino]

No, we're committed to comedians.

[Tom Segura]

Although call the boys.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Don't give me that horse. Are you kidding me?

[Andrew Santino]

I didn't hear what you said.

[Tom Segura]

I was picking up on Andrew's putting down. You call the boys and fire up the meth pipe, man.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, yeah, let's go.

[Chris Williamson]

So you're saying if you take the stuff that suppresses prolactin that you can the refractory.

[Chris Masterjohn]

The refractory period is shortened.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I want the refractory. That's you're looking for some pieces

[Chris Masterjohn]

for some peace and ease, you know I

[Tom Segura]

want to pass out. I want to.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. So I mean, I don't know. I mean I think we're. This seems like a age old method. I'm guessing you know of, of calming down. Hey listen, better, better, better that, better that than taking like a barbiturate. Right? True. You know we talked about the 80s right. In 70s and 80s. If you look back I just, just completed this brigging book finalist finally. Thank you. It's like 700 pages. I apologize in advance but it's like a encyclopedia to be able to look up. Like if you want more focus. What's stimulants could you consider what are you willing to take?

[Chris Williamson]

You fully took the rails off with this. It was like not just stuff that's white market available.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I was like have lawyers read it for whatever concerns you have. I'm like put the disclaimers you need. But like I didn't cover peptides and hormones because that's stuff I'm still exploring. But everything I know to be true I put in there. I just like I left it all on the map.

[Chris Williamson]

That's pretty cool.

[Tom Segura]

That's cool.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I just put it all in there and even the introduction like I said get brutally honest and I know I not bad names. Like there's some people that I want to credit and things like that that I've Been kind of quiet about and I just. It's all there.

[Andrew Santino]

Wait, can I ask you. Because we're talking about like as guys that like we go on the road, we perform and we're like, you know, getting to sleep is a thing. Yeah. What's the most like non prescription drug, like, best way? Is there something to consume maybe or do to do or maybe both.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean, look, if you behaviors first, let's just say that I'm not saying this to like protect myself. Like, I've been around long enough, attacked enough for every little thing that like, you know, I don't tap dance anymore. I would say, okay, you get back to your room. It would be. Give yourself a hot shower.

[Tom Segura]

Dude, that was hot.

[Chris Masterjohn]

The hot shower, right, paradoxically, is going to lower your core body temperature. You need your body temperature to start dropping to get to sleep.

[Andrew Santino]

Okay.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Which is. We can talk about why that happens, but you heat up the outside of your body. Then there's this compensatory drop. Drop. It's like you have a thermostat in your brain. It goes, oh, outside my body's heating up. So then core body temperature starts to drop. When you get out, towel off then. I would. It seems silly, but when you deliberately exhale, you slow your heart rate down. You want your heart rate pretty low before bed, but you don't have to have it like really low. It's just in the morning, you want your heart rate and your cortisol spiked and get into the day, caffeine, exercise and all that stuff. Look at your phone. If you need to get your sunlight, do all that stuff. But in the last hour of your day, whenever that happens to fall, some long deliberate exhales. Normally we don't. We normally we passively exhale. But when you deliberately exhale, you slow your heart rate down. It activates a descending branch of your vagus nerve, which goes to your heart. It activates something called respiratory sinus arrhythmia, which sounds bad, arrhythmia, but it's actually good. It's like the break on your heart rate. It's the basis of heart rate variability. So just some like just bringing that down. If you wanted to take something, you know, nowadays there's so many different sleep supplements, but you know, something with magnesium, saffron, some apigenin, which is chamomile extract, extract. And that would be the supplement version, you know. Okay, so like it sounds like a plug, but like the AGZ supplement kind of combines all those things. That's what I'll I'll drink like half a packet of that. There are. And I get in trouble for this nowadays, but I'm kind of having fun these days because, like, I don't really care anymore. So now you just get the real me. I mean, it was always the real me, minus the stuff I was like, afraid to say. But there's a peptide called Pinelon which is spectacularly good at increasing REM sleep. Okay. I would not take it every night. You got to make sure you're getting real Pinelon. You. I recommend you work with an MD who gets it from a compounding pharmacy. Not buying it off the. You know, they say Chinese peptides, but they're from all over the world, so they're unfair to the Chinese, by the way. You know, they make it sound like they make other.

[Chris Williamson]

They make other stuff too.

[Chris Masterjohn]

They make other stuff too. And for all we know, there's some great Chinese peptides. But I recommend getting your peptides from a reliable source. But pine neon, taken like three nights a week, you'll notice that your REM sleep is spectacular.

[Tom Segura]

Good.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Okay. If you aren't getting enough deep sleep, which is at the beginning of the night, it is wise to not have eaten for about two hours before you go to sleep.

[Tom Segura]

Dude, I get like 20 minutes. I give so much REM, but I get like 30 minutes of deep sleep.

[Chris Masterjohn]

This is interesting. So there's always a trade off. So if you take something to increase the amount of slow wave deep sleep that you get, let's say, and I'm not recommending this because these growth hormone secretags, they'll increase growth hormone, but things like Tessellin, Sermorelin, you'll get a bigger growth hormone surge and you'll get more deep sleep, but you'll get less remote.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Cannabis smokers get almost no rem. Like, almost no rem. And then when they come off cannabis, their dreams are wild. Yeah. So that's a well known kind of rebound effect. So the Pinealon would be a more advanced trick. Okay. And on and on and on. But you know, and then some people, like, I'm not a Xanax guy.

[Andrew Santino]

Right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But at some level, you know, if you are doing all the right behaviors, you're not drinking caffeine too close to sleep, you're doing a shower, the long exhale, breathing, maybe the, the supplements either stack together, you take them independently and figure out what you want and what works for you, or you decide to do Pinealon every once in a while. I think you're doing pretty much Everything you can do. And at that point, hopefully eight sleep will make a portable version because it's a great thing to cool your bed and all. It really does help. Problem is there isn't really a good portable version of it. So I keep hoping they'll do that and keep it dark. I. Eye mask, Earplugs.

[Andrew Santino]

I sleep with eye mask.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, and then you're pretty much there, you know.

[Chris Williamson]

What do you think about Trazodone?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Trazodone supposedly keeps the architecture of sleep. Right. But I mean these serotonin agonists, I mean the problem with tweaking serotonin is you can end up with other effects. Right? It's an ant. I think it was originally designed as antidepressant. Right? Yeah, yeah. So I mean, not my go to. There's a prescription drug called Queen Vivec which is in a classic drug called the Doras, which works on the hypocretinorexis. It's like, yeah, it's very expensive, but that seems to improve REM sleep.

[Andrew Santino]

Quivivic.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Quivic, very expensive. Like $30 a pill or.

[Chris Williamson]

Dude, I took a. I took a Balsamra last year and it felt like someone had hit me in the back of the head.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I don't know what that is. So I want to be careful.

[Chris Williamson]

I don't. Same thing. It's in the. It's in the same category.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Fuck me. It was like someone had come in and just hit me with a hammer.

[Tom Segura]

I stopped taking melatonin because you said it shrinking your balls.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean melatonin, that scared me off.

[Tom Segura]

But it.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Years ago I used to work on these little Siberian dwarf hamsters and they're seasonal breeders and if they, if you give them melatonin like they're ball string to the size of a grain of rice. A tiny, tiny bit of fast acting melatonin every once in a while. Like when I say tiny amount, I mean like 300 micrograms. Normally people are taking like 1 to 10 milligrams. And here's the thing, I say this and then some people who are alleged sleep scientists say they are sleep scientists, but they are like, oh no. 10 milligrams is the dose that was used in these studies. Like I've run a lot of studies. When you're going for an effect, you oftentimes will be like control group. 5 milligrams, 10 milligrams. Right? Because some graduate students, life is on the line. There's very few dose response curves of these things done under the same condition. So tiny, tiny, tiny amount of melatonin if you're gonna. If you're gonna do that. Gotcha. So it's not. And that's not a problem for occasional use, but a lot of people are giving too much of it to their kids.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And then when kids are in the melatonin help. Puberty at bay. And then there's a switch in the patterns of melatonin secretion that. It's not the only thing, but it correlates with puberty. So by the way, your kids probably are gonna start having hormones, in which case you're effed because your kids are already like, in your face.

[Andrew Santino]

Wild.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, they're wild.

[Andrew Santino]

How so? I mean, they're just, they're. They're amazing kids, but they have just, you know, My oldest is, like, very competitive.

[Chris Williamson]

How old?

[Andrew Santino]

He's 10. But I mean, he's like, I'm 10, I'm taking over. No, for real. He's a fourth now, fourth grader. He's, you know, he does cross country, does jiu jitsu. He was in the state finals for, for cross country.

[Chris Williamson]

But he.

[Andrew Santino]

You see this thing, like, with.

[Chris Williamson]

When you.

[Andrew Santino]

You realize with kids, you're like, oh, this is just like who you are. You know what I mean?

[Tom Segura]

Like, you.

[Andrew Santino]

So like, this kid, he, like, he always, always is, like, wants to compete at everything. At everything. It doesn't matter if it's like, we're reading something. I'm gonna read this faster than you. Michael Jordan. He just wants to come.

[Chris Williamson]

So.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Michael Jordan did.

[Andrew Santino]

He's also super emotional. Yeah, I know. I hope it doesn't happen to me. Jesus Christ.

[Chris Williamson]

What?

[Andrew Santino]

But be careful. The little guy, the little guy is like, has a comedian's personality 100% percent. He's a complainer. Like, comedians complain. Things aggravate you hang around comics, there's. They're not indifferent to things they have. So he's always just like, what's this table doing here, man? And you're like, what? He's like, it takes up the whole room. I keep running into it like some smaller, you know, like, I'm like, yeah. And he curses like that. I'm like, yo, like, you can't be talking. He's like. You say all the time. I'm like, okay. Like, he's fired up. And then there's. They're boys and so they just like, they love to break shit, you know, like, everything nice that I just have, I just go. I'm just going to take this somewhere else. Take this to the office. Because they Just break things, you know, and they're just, they're just fired up to do that. And so. Yeah, no, we're still right before puberty, you know that like the 10 year old is close. Like he's getting on the line. They did. The funny thing is I like, you know, obviously like you tease your kids. So like when I have people over for dinner, because I know it bothers them, I'll be like, do you have a girlfriend? And because they're both that thing where they're like, they don't like girls. So like the 10 year old go, what kind of question is that? He goes, I go, what? He goes, what kind of question? I'm 10, I'm not gonna date a girl for years. It's a crazy question, man. And I'm like, okay. And then I'll turn to the seven year old. I go, do you have a girlfriend? He'll go, you. And I'm like, yo. He goes, you, man. Okay, I have a girlfriend. I'm like, okay.

[Chris Masterjohn]

What does your wife think about all this?

[Andrew Santino]

I mean, she laughs. I don't think she doesn't try to provoke them as much as I do because I think it's, I think who's more like, who?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Or is that a thing?

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, the 10 year old is her twin, okay? And the 7 year old is like my duplicate. I mean, he's just exactly the same. We react to this like we'll be watching something and like, you know, like a van will like hit a guy on the side of the road and you know, like in a movie or something. And the seven year old be like. And then she'll be like, he's you. You know, he's you. And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, jesus Christ. That's what I was laughing at. Yeah, it's. It's crazy. They're exactly like him.

[Chris Williamson]

Do you find it easier to discipline the one that's more like you, easy to understand? Or is it throwing your sort of patterns back at yourself? Do you get more triggered by the one that's more like you?

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, 100%. And also like, because if I start getting loud, he'll just, he'll he was like, we were throwing the ball and he threw the ball poorly, you know, like to be. I go, dude, throw it to me. He goes, you got knees, bend down, pick it up. Okay? And I'm like, Jesus Christ. And then. And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I can, you know, like. But the, the 10 year old. And he's been like this since he was, like, five, which is so spooky to me that, like, if I. If he does something like, you know, he knocked paint over. And I go, come the fuck on, man. Like, what the. What are you doing? He'll be like, I'm a kid and

[Chris Williamson]

you can just speak self.

[Andrew Santino]

Aware. And I'm like, they're becoming self aware. And then you're like, I'm a piece of shit. Like. Like, immediately you're like, I cannot believe. Because he's right.

[Chris Williamson]

He's out. Fox you.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. Oh, 100%.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Do they have phone, you know, smart phones?

[Andrew Santino]

No, no, they don't have phones. They don't have phones.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

And we're not planning on doing that anytime soon for a while. Yeah, yeah. No.

[Tom Segura]

Personality differences are crazy.

[Andrew Santino]

It's crazy.

[Tom Segura]

You're like.

[Andrew Santino]

You go, that's all kids.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Three and six.

[Tom Segura]

Three and six, yeah. And you're like, all right, that's. This is what our kids will be like. You have another one. You're like, what the.

[Andrew Santino]

What happened to you?

[Tom Segura]

What is this? And it's just completely. It's funny. Mine are the opposite. My oldest is like me. They both. They share characteristics. My oldest is, like, pretty introverted it and like, low key. And the other ones, just like her mom, where she'll like, we. We had a little, like. It was like. They called it a daddy daughter dinner. We go out and they played music and I'm like, all right, you know, I gotta. This is my moment. I dance with my kids. And my youngest was like, bro, I'm dancing. My friends get away from me. And she just. All night. She's three years old, dance with her friends. They just. Just like, life of the party. My oldest was kind of like, ah, I'm gonna chill out. This is a little much for. It was just. It was really funny. But, yeah, they're polar opposite. So weird.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Do you watch your swearing around them? Like, Tom watches his swearing.

[Tom Segura]

They'll. They'll get on me for it. They'll go like, that's a bad word, dad. And then now the youngest one will throw them back at me a little bit.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, don't let them hang out with Tom's kids. Sounds like. It sounds like they'll pick up some choice.

[Tom Segura]

Won't say hate. If they. If we say hate, they're like, that's a bad word. And I'm like, where did you get this from? She's like, I think it was from, like, their early school.

[Andrew Santino]

My youngest curses more like the older one.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

Will curse less.

[Tom Segura]

Same. That's how my younger.

[Andrew Santino]

The younger one will curse more.

[Tom Segura]

The youngest, my, My wife told the. The two kids like, get your asses upstairs. And the youngest was like, adults, get your asses upstairs. She's three. And we were like, whoa.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I was kind of impressed. I was actually pretty good.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Sometimes there's a big difference between swearing and swearing at someone.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, right. Yeah, for sure.

[Chris Williamson]

You bang your knee on something, you're allowed to say, fuck, dude.

[Tom Segura]

My.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Fundamentally, my.

[Tom Segura]

I dropped a thing and one of my kids was like, I like dropped. It was like. She was like, you can say shit, Dad. I was like, thanks, man.

[Chris Williamson]

It really does feel like your kids are parenting you more than you're parenting them, dude.

[Andrew Santino]

They probably.

[Tom Segura]

I think kids are smarter now. I swear to God, I think kids are way smarter.

[Chris Williamson]

Look back and you were like, I was retard maxing from birth.

[Tom Segura]

I. I was 100%. I didn't talk to people at all. My kids are like, hi, how are you? How's your. They'll like congratulate people when they have a baby. My 3 year old will be like, congratulations.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Just a random. We never told her to do this.

[Tom Segura]

She'll go up and be like, congratulations. And they're like, thanks, that's good.

[Chris Masterjohn]

She doesn't say, I'm sorry.

[Andrew Santino]

Fuck, it's wild, dude.

[Chris Williamson]

It's so.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Oh, man.

[Chris Williamson]

The fact that they become self aware and they know I'm a kid, it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're not supposed to be able to watch the rules of the game. You're supposed to be in the matrix.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, exactly.

[Chris Williamson]

You're not supposed to be observing the Matrix.

[Andrew Santino]

Hyper aware.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. I try to really catch myself on that. Like this is what I. Because if I'm going back and forth, like, do this right now. And they're like, no, I'll. I'll want to be like, just do what I say. Then they'll come up with a reason. I'll be like, that's actually a fair point.

[Andrew Santino]

You're good, go ahead. That's just. It's crazy. Like the emotional intelligence thing also is always like, so like that. The 10 year old, we were in a setting when someone was like, who do you love the most? And he was like, my mom. And I was like, yeah. And then later on he came back, he goes, hey, I just wanted you to know that when I said I love mom the most, he goes, I love you just as much. I just spend more time with Her. So I feel like that's. And I was like. I was like, no, it's okay, man. He was like, I just didn't want you to feel like I didn't love you as much. And I was like, it's cool. You're 10.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Stop.

[Chris Williamson]

Fuck me.

[Tom Segura]

That's rad.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, but I'm an only child, so I was essentially autistic. I had like autism until age, like 20 when I went to university. I'd been in university for two years. And I was like, oh, okay. I've like, integrated with society in this way. I don't know any. Only children that are normally adapted not. You just don't have the same amount of social exposure.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But you guys can, you know, what was he gonna say? You guys can play with yourselves, you know, but, you know, the. No, but you can, you know, but it's true, like, they. That kids who grow up alone know how to like, integrate with adults in the family. And then they go to their room and they do their thing. I suppose nowadays they have iPads and

[Chris Williamson]

definitely comfortable in solitude and stuff, but. Ye. I do. I remember when I went to uni, I was 18, and I didn't know that you were supposed to knock on someone's bedroom door before you went in, because I'd never had to knock on anyone's bedroom door. Like, mom and dad always went to bed after me or whatever. And there was like, I was never gonna fucking. Like, there's just no reason to do it. No brothers or sisters. So I was like, I had to learn shit.

[Tom Segura]

Just not the.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, they don't burst into your fucking housemates in the uni halls of residence.

[Andrew Santino]

That makes sense, though. You just didn't have.

[Chris Williamson]

It's never been patent, but.

[Andrew Santino]

Meaning.

[Chris Williamson]

Meanwhile, your 10 year old's like, giving you counseling advice. He's bringing your emotions back into land after maybe making you feel uncomfortable.

[Andrew Santino]

I know, it's so. It's. It's so unexpected. And you're like, who taught you this? You know, like, he wasn't taught. He just.

[Chris Williamson]

A kid's getting smarter. Is that a thing?

[Chris Masterjohn]

I don't know. I mean, I know that the language learning data show that, you know, kids can literally say words they've never heard before that are accurate to the meaning of the word. They'll construct sentences in novel ways they haven't heard, you know, know. I mean, there's some fundamental units of language in the brain that, you know, different lang, different, you know, place all over the world, you know, kind of hijack the same machinery to construct language. So there's a template for it, right? And so maybe if they're getting more. There's a, a guess here. It's conjecture, pure conjecture that they're, you know, able to access lots of more movies and television shows and your kids aren't online, but, you know, they're hearing many more different dialects and things from different people that they're able to come up with novel combinations that we weren't able to access.

[Tom Segura]

My three year old sense, she had like the car, like the door, like the unlock thing, the key or whatever, and I can't even talk, but she was like. I was like, here, I'll show you how to do it. She goes, three year old. She was like, I'm an expert. I was like, where the fuck did you hear expert from? It was bizarre. And she actually did know how to unlock it properly. And I was like, all right, man, I'm done. You can just have my money when I die.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But this is good, right? Because this is a generation that's going to take, take care of everybody.

[Tom Segura]

I think so, man. I'm an expert. She'll be four in a couple weeks. But she was like, I'm an expert. And I was like, that's rad. Where'd you hear that from? It's. I swear they're smarter. Yeah, I really think so.

[Andrew Santino]

The language thing is spooky. Like they start constructing sentences with vocabulary and, and correctly, you know, like you hear it all the time and you go like, did you hear that in a show?

[Tom Segura]

Or something like that.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean, I don't know if these data ever held up. You might have covered this on your podcast in terms of like sibling order and only children and et cetera. But wasn't it the case case that only children, in terms of just successful life outcomes, you know, by the sort of like standard metrics that they tend to do better on average?

[Chris Williamson]

I think so. But that. I don't know whether it's on average, but you're certainly going to get more outliers. It's just weirder inputs, right? You're going to get more variability in what happens. And for some of those it's going to end up with extreme success, and for others it's just going to end up with like fucking trying to shoot the president or whatever.

[Tom Segura]

Oh yeah, it's a fine line.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But there used to be these theories, like, you know, you date someone who's an only child and like they need a lot more attention or something. But then you could also say, well, no, but they grew up being able to spend more time alone. So like, I don't think any of this stuff really holds. I don't know. I. I ask in, in seriousness, not just because you're an only child, but because you cover some of this.

[Chris Williamson]

The guy that's done a thousand one hundred podcast episodes needs some attention.

[Chris Masterjohn]

No.

[Chris Williamson]

Maybe.

[Chris Masterjohn]

No. The guy who might be true podcast episodes and a significant fraction have centered around human dynamics and biology and psychology.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm actually a fan of your podcast.

[Chris Williamson]

Thank you.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Why? Yeah, that's why I make that we're

[Chris Williamson]

all fans of each other. I gotta, I gotta show you this. I learned this thing about this 21 year old college student in Austin who has made $43,000 running an AI OnlyFans account.

[Andrew Santino]

Dude, I, I just heard that I had this meeting where they were talking

[Tom Segura]

about how, oh, he's doing like, oh no.

[Andrew Santino]

Wow.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Wait, so that's the dude and that's the, that's the guy and she's the AI V version that you're selling?

[Chris Williamson]

Yep.

[Tom Segura]

So, okay, well, what is this?

[Chris Williamson]

It's a 22 year old. This is like her avatar, right? So he's using Claude code and Flux and 11 labs and basically she can chat 24 hours a day with all of her subscribers and her top Fans. Paid nearly $2,000 in messages. Average revenue per fan $34. And she doesn't sleep. There's nothing to film. No one's typing. Claude code writes every message. Flux generates every photo and Elevenlabs generates

[Andrew Santino]

what's the added Context is it OnlyFans

[Chris Williamson]

requires verification that includes individuals ID addresses in numerous forms. There is no camera, no girls and no OnlyFans except for a LARP farming Twitter revenue with a made up story. Well, it's a good story. It's a good.

[Andrew Santino]

Well, there's something that is happening with. Because you know, with AI is what Hollywood is embracing right now is like sets, right? Like so in words. Other other words, they'll bring in the actors for real right now and they'll say like, okay, you guys are acting, we'll put a table in the room. But this is gonna be in, you know, whatever it's outdoors. Like the table is in Siberia. So the set is AI, right? But what some apparently OnlyFans performers have been approached is for a payout where they already have a following. Like the OnlyFans person has a following. A company goes, we'll pay you X amount of dollars to have your OnlyFans account for like six months and then the a. What they're doing is putting the OnlyFans person into an AI situation, having them do wilder things than they actually do, generating a whole crazy amount of revenue. And now that OnlyFans performer is like, yeah, but I didn't do this stuff. You know? So they're like.

[Chris Williamson]

And then you're obliged when you get your account back. You're like, hey, but do you remember what you were doing with your feet for the last six months?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

You were drinking and now you're just like posing again. Yeah. So they're exploiting the hell out of them with AI.

[Chris Williamson]

I mean, that's a level of self exploitation to actual exploitation.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, exactly.

[Chris Williamson]

Right? Wow.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

That's crazy.

[Andrew Santino]

But I mean, you can obviously. Like, that was. That's nuts.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, the video still exists regardless of whether or not the guy set up the system to do the thing. Like that dude is making that work by masking a hot girl over the top of him wearing her pants.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Do you think we're close to the point where, like, you can go on vacation and then just have AI this pipeline, generate a podcast and no one will know?

[Chris Williamson]

So NotebookLM kind of does this already. I've had a couple of conversations with different platforms that are thinking about doing it too. That makes me a bit uncomfortable. But the fucking thing that I'm going through at the moment, which is wild, is ElevenLabs, their go to British voice. So Eleven Labs is like the biggest AI text to speech company. Matthew McConaughey is a investor in it. It's made tons of money. It's absolutely fucking ripped. Their go to AI. British voice is me.

[Chris Masterjohn]

That makes sense.

[Chris Williamson]

1000% being trained on me. It's awesome. Until people use it as voiceovers for products that I don't endorse.

[Chris Masterjohn]

That's when you sue my friend.

[Chris Williamson]

Dude, we emailed them. We emailed 11 labs. That's not sue a year ago and said, hey, this is fucking Chris. You've used Chris's voice and they said, oh, we've done a Rocheman Heisman and it's come back at 0.3 similarity and it needs to be above 0.65 in order to. I'm like, dude, this is 11 Labs.

[Chris Masterjohn]

11 Labs poached you or these other people poached me?

[Chris Williamson]

No, 11 labs used their archer. They must have trained this voice on you. On you.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Like, pull up that essay. The. The video essay, the M1 for.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I got someone I'm going to connect you to. I got a friend who's like, perhaps the world's best scientist on the neuroscience of speech and language. And is he going to be able

[Chris Williamson]

to say, yeah, that's fucking Chris's voice. Give him some money?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, because I don't know what. I don't know what criteria they're using.

[Chris Williamson]

Your own.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I don't know what criteria they're using. Yes, you do. Your name, face and likeness. And that's your likeness. That. I don't know what criteria they're using. But there's a way where you look at the envelope of the frequency and you could. There's. The reason it sounds like you. Is because they're capturing some overall essence. Now, it's true with certain music, like certain songs, right, if you change a couple of chords, then you. You escape the copyright. So that's essentially what they're doing. Right. But, um, yeah, there's.

[Chris Williamson]

I didn't know about.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean, there's ways to address this with them where. I'm not saying get legally aggressive. It costs you a lot of money. It costs a lot of time. But. But you own your voice. Just like, I can't take a picture of you and just like. Like tweak something just a little bit and then make a video and have you sell something. You know, I tried that. I got caught.

[Chris Williamson]

So.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, but you do have a.

[Chris Williamson]

You know, look into this. Look at this video essay. It's been over 12 years since the disappearance of flight MH373. Massive searches, more than $200 million spent. And on March 8, 2026, Ocean Infinity officially called search. Their CEO, Oliver Plunkett, essentially admitted what no one in the official investigation wanted to say. Maybe the plane simply isn't where we've been looking. But one man wasn't surprised.

[Chris Masterjohn]

What? Yeah, this is you.

[Chris Williamson]

It's me.

[Tom Segura]

Is this not supposed to be you?

[Chris Williamson]

No, it's not me. This is Archer from eleven Labs. People think this is you. Okay. People think that this is my secret second channel or I do video essays.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But if it was, you would be saying this right now.

[Chris Williamson]

It's not my secret Second Aviation Files. Like, this video is good. I watched it. I really enjoyed it.

[Andrew Santino]

That's fucked up.

[Chris Williamson]

And there's people doing like, shit. Shilajit company ads.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, the fucking Wii raises fsh just a little bit, but it does.

[Andrew Santino]

You should be doing more voiceover work, though.

[Tom Segura]

Anyway, your voiceover is great.

[Chris Williamson]

Thank you. It's a shame.

[Tom Segura]

You should be. You could be Planet Earth for sure.

[Chris Williamson]

Infinitely scalable with that.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I want to hear you on the Simpsons Dude.

[Chris Williamson]

It's very. Well, that one's strange. But then there's another one. What people are using it for is ads. So they're putting my voice as the voiceover for ads. And originally it was just like veo with subtitles at this.

[Andrew Santino]

If it's getting into ads, it's is worth doing some like at least legal kind of experimentation here.

[Chris Masterjohn]

There are a couple of people I can put you in contact with who are absolutely world class at suing the pants out of these companies.

[Chris Williamson]

This is the advantage of being friends

[Chris Masterjohn]

with you getting real money and bankrupting the shit out of them. Now I don't want to bankrupt 11 labs. In fact, I think they're.

[Chris Williamson]

It's impossible.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I think we actually have a relationship. 11 labs.

[Chris Williamson]

Look at this, look at this, look at this one. This is insane. Watch this.

[Tom Segura]

And why don't they just change this?

[Andrew Santino]

You're the first comment.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Does Chris will know that you've stolen his voice and then tagged my manager? Yeah, well, so. But that's over an AI guy that isn't me. And that feels even more pernicious.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

So yeah, I mean I'm getting.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. When there's a voice. No, I, I hear you. Like we. Years ago there was this Jer Sizer ad. I remember that one with my, with me talking all AI right. So and people, you know, I get enough crap anyway. But people were like, oh, the Jawser Sizer. I'm like, I'm not. So this was all AI.

[Chris Williamson]

You do have a big night.

[Tom Segura]

That sucks.

[Chris Masterjohn]

We. We. I train my. You got to train your neck guys. You got to train your neck.

[Andrew Santino]

Do you iron neck it?

[Chris Masterjohn]

No, I have a four way neck machine or I do some like a plate with wrapped in a towel and you know that kind of thing. It's your upper spine. It's important. I don't have the best posture, but I don't have the worst.

[Tom Segura]

Doesn't that mess with your sleep?

[Chris Masterjohn]

No.

[Chris Williamson]

Alex Jones.

[Tom Segura]

Alex Jones said you make dm.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Alex Jones said you make stabilizes the whole shoulder girl. A lot of guys have shoulder. Shoulder issues.

[Chris Williamson]

What you mean you don't want a thick, thick neck?

[Chris Masterjohn]

You don't want to.

[Chris Williamson]

You have like a like cop into his thumb for a night.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You don't want. You don't want a neck so big that it restricts your breathing.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, well, you know, Alex Jones says if your neck gets big enough you produce DMT in your sleep. Which is why he's in, he's in connection with interdimensional Entities. And that's where he gets a lot of information. So I was just checking.

[Chris Williamson]

Science behind that might be related to

[Chris Masterjohn]

the fact that is nearly a billion dollars. But hey, listen, the last person I want to get into the mix with is Alex Jones. I don't know him. I've seen some things here or there. His employees get shot walking up to their house. Seems like a dude to avoid for the most part. But anyway, love and light, as they say in scratch.

[Tom Segura]

Fair enough.

[Chris Williamson]

I don't know the level of neck thickness you can get to where you just start producing drugs.

[Tom Segura]

DMT in his sleep. That's unbelievably. He claims his neck so thick he produces dmt.

[Andrew Santino]

That cannot be real.

[Tom Segura]

It's so funny. It's so funny, though.

[Andrew Santino]

That is funny about a thing.

[Tom Segura]

You're like, okay, yeah, sure.

[Chris Masterjohn]

He's like random node connector, like, in terms of. He's like, you know, like the. There's this thing in psychosis called clang associations, where people who are psychotic start to associate the sound of a word, like the phonetics of it with the meaning. So they'll be like, I was out for a walk, talk. We should talk. You know, and then they kind of go down these. You know, the brain is broken in some sense, right? And so they're following these nodes that are not of reality at some level, or they're pseudo random or hyper random. And so clang associations often show up in like the health and wellness thing, where these are hard to think about, where someone will say, yeah, you know, I. Or people do it visually. They'll be like, oh, yeah, you know, walnuts are really high in this particular fatty acid. It's good for your brain and it looks like a brain, and that's why it's good for your brain. And you go, that's a visual clang association. That's psychotic.

[Chris Williamson]

It's like numerology.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Now, it's true that the fatty acid in walnuts, like, it might have some brain benefits, but it's not like this. But it's not because it's. It's not in the shape of a brain because of that. So humans love to do these things. There's something called paradilia, which is like. People look at clouds and be like, oh, my God, it looks like. Like a puppy dog or something. But some people take that into the world, right? They can be great artists, but they always can be effing crazy.

[Chris Williamson]

How do they take that into the world?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Well, some people will take that into the world and they'll you know, they'll see something and they'll go, oh, you know that that window is like a matrix that matches something I have before. And there's like a. There. This is like a portal to that other thing. And you can't really argue with their logic because they can usually do the simple math of it, but it doesn't square with a functional life. And if you hop on their thing, you're effed like you're not getting anything done that day. Right. Even in psychedelic journeys. This is what's interesting I think about some of the real psychedelics like psilocybin and lsd. There is this weird thing about them which is it's not really psychosis. There seems to be some real structure about the unconscious mind revealed in those drugs. And that's why people always use the guy who developed polymer's chain reaction, which you can use to amplify DNA, which is used for everything from forensics to genealogy to all sorts of things. Evaluating embryos, seeing if kids are going to be healthy, all that, that stuff that supposedly. That guy came to the logic of that on an LSD trip. Now he also did a lot of really hardcore science. He knew his math. Like he really, he understood. But there does seem to be some like real core structure of the way that thing that the world is, is built and the way that the mind is built that can be revealed, you know, with proper support in, in psychedelics. But people were just walking around like making these, you know, clang associations. You find them at a low, you see a lot, you hear a lot of those, this in la, like within the health and wellness thing and people would be like, they sort of associate in the shape of things with how good they are for you or they'll, they'll some verbal like a little like pun they'll think is real. It's a bunch of horseshit. It's like, it's, it's not quite psychosis but it's kind of like veering.

[Andrew Santino]

Have you experimented with.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And so Alex Jones, I'm not calling him psychotic, I know what you mean. But it's like let's take two things, DMT and neck size and you go like, like it sounds so awesome. Listen, I would be the first person open to it. I, I'll be totally open to it. If there was any kind of like

[Chris Williamson]

high all the time.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, we've dissected a lot of human bodies over the years, like the medical and science community, like so if there's a basis for it, like I would be Totally interested. I think the chakras are really interesting as, like, convergence centers for, you know, for nerves and vessels that might have some real basis. So I don't think it's totally cuckoo, but he seems to be really good at, like, merging themes to create interesting stories. And here we are talking about it.

[Chris Williamson]

Have you ever seen the website for spurious correlation?

[Chris Masterjohn]

No, but that's not what this sounds like.

[Chris Williamson]

Fucking unbelievable. So this is basically mapping two things onto a graph that seems like they're correlated, but can't be. I swear, the number of films that Nicolas Cage was in and the number of people that die by eating cheese per year is the same.

[Andrew Santino]

Okay, right, look at this.

[Chris Williamson]

Annual US Household spending on alcoholic beverages correlates with the number of septic tank services and sewer pipe cleaners in New Hampshire.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I know this. Yeah, exactly.

[Chris Williamson]

Go down, go down. The popularity of the Call me maybe meme and the kerosene use in Panama, like, almost one to one.

[Tom Segura]

Whoa.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Right?

[Chris Williamson]

Like Google. Google searches for. That is sus. And a stock price for this fucking random company.

[Andrew Santino]

Love it.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But the question is, were these pulled together at random? Or did they. Or did they, you know, they search for common curve.

[Chris Williamson]

This guy, this Tyler Vigan. Tyler Vigan guy, like, he literally tries to find things that are just correlated. And this website is filled. There's thousands of them. How NERDY Tom Scott's YouTube titles are. And the number of movies that Mila Kuznet Kunis appeared in.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Damn, it's fucking Chipotle Mexican Grills.

[Chris Williamson]

So good ticket sales for the Houston.

[Andrew Santino]

If you showed this to somebody that was psychotic, they would be fucking flipping out.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, this is all the sort of stuff, conspiracy theories. Google searches for why do I have green poop and solar power generated in Bulgaria,

[Andrew Santino]

Motor vehicles, et cetera.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Johnny Depp.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Number of movies Johnny Depp appeared in the United States.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I heard there's another Pirates of the Caribbean coming out. Or Caribbean.

[Chris Williamson]

Johnny Depp.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I believe so.

[Tom Segura]

Nice.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I might have. I might have heard that from a very reputable source.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Is it Johnny?

[Chris Masterjohn]

No.

[Chris Williamson]

You friends with Johnny?

[Chris Masterjohn]

No, never met him.

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, it's going to be a fat check for Johnny, dude.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You know, I think his comeback, people are eagerly awaiting.

[Tom Segura]

Wild.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

I mean, what do you reckon he got paid?

[Andrew Santino]

I think he has.

[Chris Masterjohn]

For the movie.

[Andrew Santino]

For. For the New Pirates.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

It's going to be going to be a. A sizable guarantee and he's going to have a massive piece of the back end because it's. It's not makeable.

[Chris Williamson]

You can't do it without him.

[Andrew Santino]

So the piece of the back end is going to be.

[Chris Williamson]

What's that? What's piece of the back end?

[Andrew Santino]

Well, at points he's going to have a percentage probably from maybe if, if he has the best deal, it's going to be like $1 gross percentage, which is like the moment somebody buys a ticket, he gets a piece of that. And that could be a billion dollar box office thing. So he could be getting, getting. I mean, if it's as big as we would anticipate, nine figures for doing a movie.

[Chris Williamson]

It's like the Jordan, right?

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, it's a comeback.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I wonder if it'll compensate for what he lost, got from the trial and then gets from this. Whether or not, you know, if you

[Chris Williamson]

looked financially in terms of fucking emotionally.

[Andrew Santino]

Well, he's also famously a loose spender, you know, so. Oh, really? Oh, you never read that article? No, it was fucking amazing, dude.

[Chris Masterjohn]

About his spending habits.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, yeah. It was a rock Rolling Stone article that. It was like a 20 page thing about like how he spends. And it was. I mean, it's just like fascinating because he was, he was spent like he obviously can at the time, you know, generate crazy income, but he would spend wild. So like if he liked a car, he would be like, I like this car and I have eight houses, so I want one of each of these cars. At the eight houses, he was spending like 30 or 40 grand a month on wine, like every month. It was, it was just multiples of everything.

[Chris Williamson]

And I think I heard about the wine in the trial. They called it a megapint.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah. And then like, I don't know, there was a thing with the business manager. He was like, they're like, you're behind on taxes and payments to us. But then he would like do a movie. So then revenue would come in and then, you know.

[Chris Williamson]

But it was like Floyd Mayweather. It was Floyd Mayweather spending money.

[Tom Segura]

It was crazy.

[Andrew Santino]

It was, it was a crazy article.

[Chris Williamson]

All of Depp's reported $650 million fortune is gone, according to rolling stuff in

[Chris Masterjohn]

levels of accrual and loss.

[Chris Williamson]

That's fucking serious.

[Tom Segura]

There is something nice about that, of just getting to spend all 650 million bucks.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Well, what's interesting is he.

[Chris Williamson]

Hang on. Depp reportedly spent $75 million on more than a dozen residences. $3 million to shoot the ashes of his friend Hunter S. Thompson into the air from a cannon.

[Chris Masterjohn]

That's pretty gangster.

[Chris Williamson]

$7,000 to buy his daughter a couch from the set of Keeping up with the Kardashians okay. That's.

[Tom Segura]

I don't know.

[Chris Williamson]

That's fucking insane. Insane.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. I love it.

[Andrew Santino]

I mean, it's a.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's.

[Andrew Santino]

I love it. It's a fun.

[Chris Masterjohn]

He's living life also. He's been famous since such a young age. It's amazing. He's. He's as sane as he is, you know, and I don't know him and I'm assuming he's sane. But, you know, earlier we were talking about, you know, sort of like how different it is now. Like, can you imagine growing up where you see yourself on a screen and on the Internet. Internet. Like, you know, I didn't see myself on a screen until I was like 45 years old. Your brains had mostly developed, right? For better or worse, but like as a kid.

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Like, and then you're making money for it and then you're just out there.

[Tom Segura]

It's wild.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

And he was like that as like 19 total.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. They claim that's kind of what killed Elvis. He was like one of the first people ever to have his image projected pretty much all across the world on like television.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Gotta be a mind Elvis.

[Andrew Santino]

They.

[Tom Segura]

They claim that like the. He was one of the first people to have like a massively popular visual, like a doppelganger, basically. And you have to like, watch yourself and millions of people are watching you. And they said that kind of just like arranging. Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

When I saw that movie, I forget what the movie was called about his manager and the whole thing. I swear, you know, if there wasn't a better case for circadian health than that film, because, you know, it was like the darkness of the hotel and he's in there all day and like he went wacko. If you want to make someone. There's this thing called ICU psychosis where people come into the Intensity intensive care unit and they're being woken up in the middle of the night and they've got lights on. You know, there's like hospital life, right? And they start to become genuinely psychotic. They go home, the psychosis lifts. This is a well known phenomenon because their circadian rhythm is so out of whack. You have enough fractured sleep like that for enough time, like, you will lose your mind.

[Chris Williamson]

What's the longest someone's ever stayed awake? Do you know?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Oh, I forget someone's like some radio DJ did this in the 70s or something as like a fundraiser course. And it was like. And when we looked this up, but I think six days or seven days, I mean, eventually you die, right? Because there's so much inflammation. Now we know it would be kind of catastrophic levels of inflammation. I mean, during sleep, the whole reset of the body is like tamping down inflammation, coordinating the different organs of your body, like getting them back in check. Like. Oh, like your liver and your stomach. They're working on different timescales, but they need to be kind of nudged into place like an orchestra. I don't know. So, yeah, things really fall apart here. Randy Garza Gardner. Here we go. 11. 11 days and 25. Wow.

[Chris Williamson]

The record is set by Randy Gardner, a 17 year old high school student in California as part of a science fair experiment. Researchers monitored him throughout and it was 11 days, 25 minutes, which is 264 hours. Interestingly, after finally sleeping, he recovered surprisingly well with no obvious long term damage recorded at the time.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Well, he was young. It definitely helps when you're young.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

What's the longest that you guys have ever stayed awake?

[Andrew Santino]

I mean. Several days.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Really?

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, several days.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

I, I can't.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Any stimulants besides caffeine? No, no, this is a safe space.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

No, no, no, it was.

[Chris Williamson]

Was it at a meth potty?

[Andrew Santino]

No, I just, I was. There was also travel involved.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

You know, and. Yeah, stayed up and. No, you real, just real pushing through. Yeah, I've pushed through a few times.

[Tom Segura]

I had this thing in college where I just started. Started being like one day a week. I'll just stay up all night and work at night. I was going to deliver insomnia cookies. I'll just, I'll stay up 24 hours, go to school, then work the other 12. If I stay up all night one night a week, I'll be fine. It just shattered me in like a week and a half and I was like, all right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Even three hours.

[Andrew Santino]

It really. These days I'm so much more sensitive to it though.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. As you get older, you need the regularity. You also get the experience of how much better it feels when you actually.

[Chris Williamson]

Why is it that you're less tolerant to. With your sleep when you're 45 than when you were 25?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Just global levels of, of inflammation as you get older. Just inflammation increases.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You know, sort of the amplitude of inflammation on the circadian cycle. Like if it looks like this when you're, you know, young, it starts to look like this and then you. Sleep deprivation. I'm making this but like as a sort of like top contour plot, you'd be like, it's really amplified. Then you're like inflammation kind of like cortisol right. You meant to have this big cortisol peak in the morning and that subsides that super healthy. That's the healthy pattern. But if you start staying awake, it starts getting jagged line, you know. And well, how long have you stayed awake?

[Chris Williamson]

Day and a half probably is the most. I, I've struggled to sleep on planes and when I was always like go to Bali and stuff like that. Be like overnight. And then you arrive there and you're all excited, you're like, yeah, it's the middle of the afternoon. It I'm going to start drinking, I'll go have a party with, meet friends, do stuff. Probably about a day and a half I guess.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But like maybe two. Maybe two. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

There's no way I've done 48 hours. There's no way.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, I can do one night.

[Chris Williamson]

Because you wouldn't ever do 48 unless you change time zones a lot.

[Andrew Santino]

Right.

[Chris Williamson]

You would only ever do 36.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Right.

[Chris Williamson]

Or whatever the fucking next one is.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Doing it on a plane is tough. I mean like when you talk to the guys that do buds and stuff, they will tell you like they get the opportunity at one point to take like a 30 minute nap and some of them just opt out because it's harder than if you just keep moving. I don't know if that's true.

[Chris Williamson]

Have you seen a background ultras? Have you seen this?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Oh yeah. So this is last man standing.

[Chris Williamson]

Last man standing races. So Nick Bear does one bpn here.

[Chris Masterjohn]

That guy Chad, former SEAL guy, long red beard, Chad Wright.

[Chris Williamson]

Did he win?

[Chris Masterjohn]

I think he does these. Last man standing.

[Chris Williamson]

Have you seen these?

[Tom Segura]

No.

[Chris Williamson]

Do you know what this is?

[Chris Masterjohn]

He's a legit badass that guy. He'll run your ass to death.

[Andrew Santino]

Basically.

[Chris Williamson]

4.1 miles every hour you have to complete. I think it's four miles and there's a loop and by the time that the bell rings for the beginning of the next hour, you have to have completed the loop and if not you're out. And they just go until everyone quits. Right. So just how you. How far? Like sorry. Yeah, there it is. 4.17 miles or 6.7 K until you drop.

[Tom Segura]

What's the winner? How many does the winner do?

[Andrew Santino]

Do the guy as many as did that bear?

[Chris Masterjohn]

One.

[Chris Williamson]

It was like two days. Yeah, he was running for two days.

[Andrew Santino]

It was, wasn't it like 100 and some like some crazy amount of mile.

[Chris Williamson]

Like I think it was 200.

[Andrew Santino]

200 miles?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, more than, more than 200. But these guys just fucking, they just keep Going. And then they're grabbing short bits of sleep. And obviously it's a trade off thing. You run faster, you're more tired, you

[Andrew Santino]

have a break, you have like a.

[Tom Segura]

So you can take a little nap.

[Andrew Santino]

If you completed it in, let's say 30 minutes. You have 30 minutes to spend how you want. Right.

[Chris Williamson]

But then you've just done four miles in 30 minutes, which is more tiring than four miles in 40, 45 minutes. I think most people, it seems like, do like 45 minutes ish of movement and then 15 minutes of recovery and then go again. It seems like the recent backyard ultra. Phil Gore ran 114 laps of the backyard ultra format. 475 miles over nearly five straight days.

[Tom Segura]

And he went to 496.

[Chris Williamson]

He nearly did 500 miles.

[Tom Segura]

That's crazy easy.

[Andrew Santino]

I don't.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, that's some forest gump right there.

[Tom Segura]

I would do one and then eat and then stop.

[Andrew Santino]

I know.

[Chris Williamson]

That's a good workout.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, that'd be nice.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I've never run a marathon. I'm sort of tempted, but not really.

[Andrew Santino]

Are you?

[Chris Williamson]

You think you're not built for a marathon?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Dude, I ran cross country in high school. I was a lot lighter.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, you were about half the size.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I was probably 100 pounds lighter. No, no, no, no. I was about 75 pounds lighter. Yeah, I'm like two.

[Andrew Santino]

Any running? You do some running now?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. Thanks. How old are you?

[Andrew Santino]

We already did this. You're saying I'm gonna do a marathon.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I do a long, slow run, which is how far? Like in, you know, I'll maybe do like six miles. So.

[Andrew Santino]

Okay.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I used to do. I used to go further, like 8 or 10 when I was lighter. Right. I'll do a long run. Then midweek, I do a 30 minute run at a faster clip. And then one day a week, I either get on the Airdyne bike and, you know, do some sprint intervals, or I'll do some running sprint intervals and then I lift three days a week.

[Andrew Santino]

But you're actually like thinking about doing a marathon?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You know, every once in a while someone will be like, hey, there's a half marathon in like outside of Aspen, which is beautiful, and you can like crest into the town and we could, you know, And I'm like, that sounds kind of cool. 13 miles seems, you know, like doable. Like Mark Bell. He's a big dude.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean, Mark Bell's denser than dark matter.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You know, I'm not talking about your brain, Mark. He's a smart Guy, but he has like the highest moral muscle density ever. It's insane. When he moves, it's like everything twitches.

[Chris Williamson]

Like one of those Belgian Blue Bulls.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Totally. Yeah, yeah. And so he's run marathons. Yeah, he's constantly.

[Andrew Santino]

What's crazy is he used to be like highly competitive power lifter and was like £320 and then now he just shrunk all the way down. But he's still like that muscle is.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I think he bench pressed a thousand pounds. I'm not kidding. Is that possible?

[Chris Williamson]

Do I think the bench record squatted thousand?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Can we look at Mark Bell's best bench? I mean, he was genuinely fat too.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, but huge.

[Chris Williamson]

Very.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I wonder Maybe it was £700. I don't know.

[Andrew Santino]

In any case, it's nuts.

[Chris Masterjohn]

He was also doing the snake diet recently. He was really.

[Chris Williamson]

What the fuck is that?

[Chris Masterjohn]

You know about this? Yeah, you just do sugar all day long, low protein. So there's this weird thing, right? And there are all these crazy theories I want to just disclaimer. I don't necessarily believe the mechanism, sure. But there's this idea that when you are low protein, high sugar, you generate this fiber fibroblast growth factor, one of these FGFs that then converts into a bunch of energy. And this is why like kids have tons of. The theory is this is why kids have tons of. And so he was doing this diet of just like fruit and candy and low protein carbs all day and then like a chicken breast at night. And he claimed he got like super shredded on this, had tons of energy. I tried it for like half a morning and I'm like, I want my eggs, I want my protein drink. I'm not doing this.

[Chris Williamson]

Was he not carnival for a while?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Sorry. 854 pounds. I apologize, I misspoke. Not a thousand pounds, but not that far.

[Chris Williamson]

But he said 2000. 2000 pound total. And he's hit thousand pound squat, which is go.

[Chris Masterjohn]

That makes sense. Nobody, nobody's brain pressing a thousand.

[Chris Williamson]

Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Was he not the carnivore guy for a long time?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. And he and his brother, he's now

[Chris Williamson]

the sugar maxing guy, basically, but he also is. But he got shredded on both diets.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, he likes to experiment with.

[Andrew Santino]

He like, he loves to experiment.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Like that's great guy. He and Nasima are like a really important corner of the health and fitness world, in my opinion. Because I, I do genuinely believe that Nasima is natural. Like I, he just has like wild genetics and he Trains really, really hard and.

[Chris Williamson]

And he's black.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Does that have anything to do with it?

[Chris Williamson]

He definitely has the build of a guy that could not be white and natural. Like, do you know anyone that's white and natural that's built like that?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. I mean, Nassim was not white. I agree with you on that.

[Chris Williamson]

Correct.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm not trying to be politically correct. I don't know. I don't know. It hadn't occurred to me that it was. That it was related to.

[Chris Williamson]

I think that's an enhancer when you get to that level of performance.

[Chris Masterjohn]

All right, we have to get into SEMA on here. I'm not trying to dance.

[Chris Williamson]

He's a fucking legend.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I don't know.

[Andrew Santino]

But he's a. He's fucking amazing.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But Mark is always doing these experiments. Like, he's into like the. The David Weck rope flow. And he like takes it to the extreme. He does it, like every day. Talks about it non stop. Then he does the snake diet, which is the sugar thing. It takes.

[Chris Williamson]

And he was doing competitive kettle ball swinging.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I love it because he's willing to do this stuff. And he. He's checked off the boxes of like. He's really good at the stuff that he puts his mind.

[Chris Williamson]

Big neck as well. I bet he's got DMT crazy stuff.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And he's also not selling you a damn thing.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You know, and so he's just like, you know, we need guys like him, you know, and he's very open about his steroid use. He has been for a long time.

[Chris Williamson]

Hang on. I thought you said he was natural.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Oh, no. Nessima.

[Chris Williamson]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Martin Bell is definitely. Martin Bell hasn't been natural since his. It was whatever.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

Fourth grade.

[Tom Segura]

What's.

[Chris Williamson]

What's the truth about the marshmallow test? Because I keep on seeing this being debunked and rebunked. And then you tweeted about.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, so this was done at Stanford. Right. Everyone's heard about it. You put kids in front of a marshmallow. If they can wait, they get a second marshmallow. The kids. That could wait. The original data said that it correlated with better life outcomes, better SAT scores, better schools, better income, kids who couldn't wait. More incarcerations. That was the idea. Those data propagated widely and those conclusions propagated widely. I should be. Not the data. The conclusions propagated widely. Then there was the criticism.

[Chris Williamson]

Who did the original study? Was it Roy?

[Chris Masterjohn]

So it was at Bing. I think it was at Bing Nursery School at Stanford or somewhere in Escondido Village. Same place that the drawing incentive, extrinsic motivation stuff was done in any case. Then there was the critique of that which said, well, whether or not these kids waited or not, depending on how much they trusted the experimenter. Which is also true. If the experimenter was someone that they knew and trusted, then they went, well, they probably will bring the second marshal. Here's what they. So I just had a guest on my podcast, which is a guy from Ohio State. He studies self control motivation. He knows this literature better than anybody and he studies it in his own lab. Dr. Kentaro Fujita. Fujita, he told me, is the correct pronunciation. Excuse me, Japanese listeners. So turns out the way the experiment was done is every kid got a marshmallow in front of them. A timer was set for 15 minutes. Every kid ate the marshmallow. Nobody talks about this. No kid waited for the second marshmallow. But they were able to see how long they were able to wait before they got the second marshmallow. So some kids were like. And the videos are really cute because sometimes the kids would like, they have these tags where they're like, they're like looking at her. They'd be like, you know, they're like, they're like thinking about it. But every kid ate. No kid made it 15 minutes. Which is interesting. We never hear that. If you look at the data that way, it turns out that even if you factor in the critique and you look at the repetition of that study, it turns out that this self control, delayed gratification thing does seem to hold up over time. You can, but you can build it out. You can develop.

[Andrew Santino]

How old were these kids?

[Chris Masterjohn]

I forget. Maybe were they like five, six? I don't know. We can, we look at.

[Chris Williamson]

But how good are your kids at fucking not eating a marshmallow that's in front of them for 15 minutes?

[Andrew Santino]

One could definitely do it.

[Chris Williamson]

The competitive one.

[Andrew Santino]

100%. Yeah, 100%.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Right.

[Andrew Santino]

He has incredible, like, self discipline and restraint. Like, it's.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You tell him some other kid wait two days, he's waiting three.

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, dude.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

For real. And the other one would be like, oh, just immediately, right? And he'd be like, it's just gone. I don't know where it went.

[Tom Segura]

I did, I did it with my oldest kid. I actually did the marshmallow, but I was like, don't eat that. Because I was like, if you eat that, you're just. Please. She was like, all right. Scared the out of her disappoint.

[Andrew Santino]

Me?

[Tom Segura]

No idea.

[Chris Williamson]

Your life hinges on how long it takes you to eat this marshmallow.

[Tom Segura]

You have no idea what's at stake.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I mean, I feel like now more than ever, child or adult, so much of life is basically what you decide not to do. Like, just don't stay on social media too long. Like go there and use it, but don't stay until too long. Don't watch too much porn in your case. You know, I feel like. I feel like you got it in a good place. I did. I swear to God.

[Tom Segura]

Finally.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Finally, after years, it was a problem.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, it was for me. It was like. It was never like a massive problem, but it just like. There's like an intuitive feeling afterwards where I just be like, it's not what I want to be doing. And then it's like, just, come on, man, you can do this. And then finally I'm like, all right, I. I don't want this anymore. Just feels bad. It's like the people making them. There's no way you're telling me the majority, or even close to the majority of the women making porn are having, like a nice life. You're like, I think you're feeding off like a really sinister thing.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And so for you is it was guilt and shame around how other people are exploited for your pleasure, ultimately.

[Tom Segura]

And squishy 40 year old boners after the fact. Yeah, that. It all congealed. And I was like, there we go. That clear. But yes, that was really.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You want to hear something really embarrassing? So I'm not an actor. I've never been in any kind of thing like that. I tried to play when I was a kid. I end up doing crew, like, like the Curtain and stuff like that. But recently someone wrote to me and they were like, hey, you're in episode one and two of season two of Beef.

[Chris Williamson]

And we signed the release form for that.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah, so you're in it too.

[Chris Williamson]

No, because it's. We signed the release. Right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But so I go to it. I'm like, cool. And they give me the timestamp and I go to it.

[Andrew Santino]

I thought.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I thought I got punked. Because in both cases it's a dude jerking off to porn, then cleaning up his computer and his hands, and then he goes out for a run listening to my podcast.

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, nice.

[Chris Masterjohn]

So this is. How about dopamine? So this is how this guy gets over the guilt of masturbation listening to my voice. So I was like, you know, I was all excited. I was going to, like, send it to my mom, my Sister. And I see this thing, and I was like, all right. And then I asked my team. I'm like, did we approve this? And they're like, yeah, we approved it. I'm like, yeah, you approved. Approved it.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

But anyway, it's interesting.

[Chris Williamson]

One of the clips is. One of the clips is from our episode.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Awesome.

[Chris Williamson]

So Rob. I think your manager, Rob, and us were like, yeah, sure, we'll sign it off. And you didn't know about it.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Nice, Nice. And this is why you have male friends.

[Andrew Santino]

Exactly. Way to go.

[Tom Segura]

But, yeah, that's it. It's just kind of. You finish, and you're like, this isn't what I need to be doing, especially once you have kids. Then you're like, dude, I really can't do this in my house. If you get busted by a kid, it's. It's over.

[Chris Williamson]

You don't really want them and it

[Chris Masterjohn]

happened, and you don't want them knowing you did this. So it's great that you're talking about this on the Internet.

[Chris Williamson]

Hey, man, I never even thought about this. The fact that all of your fear as a kid was being walked in on by your mom or dad, but all of your fear as a parent is being walked in on by your kids.

[Andrew Santino]

A thousand percent.

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, my God.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Interesting point.

[Chris Williamson]

The trauma gets so much deeper.

[Tom Segura]

Way worse. Yeah, it'd be horrible. So that was the one. I was like, that's a good.

[Chris Masterjohn]

No more. You're going to make a great parent.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. So, yeah, you will make a great parent. I can't wait to be a dad.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You'll make a great parent.

[Tom Segura]

What about.

[Chris Williamson]

Okay, the other thing that I've kept on thinking about that I've never asked you, sunscreen. Is it killing us or not?

[Chris Masterjohn]

No, it's not killing us.

[Chris Williamson]

Is it bad for us? Should we. Is it. Am I bad?

[Chris Masterjohn]

We'll go in layers again, right? Couple things to know.

[Chris Williamson]

Sunlight.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. I won't do the whole thing.

[Chris Williamson]

This rabbit hole is fucking. This is like Alex Jones shit.

[Chris Masterjohn]

You need sunlight. Not just for vitamin D. You want sunlight on your skin as much as possible in terms of days of your life that you can get it. That doesn't mean as much sunlight as possible. Why UV light? Right. Short wavelength light can damage the DNA in your skin cells. Yes. It can cause problems. You need a lot of it. So in order for that to happen, here's the interesting thing. The UV index is low when the sun is low in the sky, very easy to remember. So early day and later day, UV index is low. How do you know it's low? Well, you can look on an app, you can Google it or whatever, chat GPT it. But if you can look at the sun and it's not painful to look at, typically that's because the sun is lower in the sky. There's something called Rayleigh scattering, and a lot of the UV gets filtered out. Okay? So getting some sunlight in your eyes, as everyone's heard me say a million times before, but also on your skin in the early part of the day, and if you can in the later part of the day, great. In the middle of the day, the UV index is very high. So if you have pale skin that can burn easily, you want to be, be careful how much exposure you get at that time. Now, sunscreen, okay? Excuse me. Shielding from the sun can be accomplished by physical barrier, right? But there's stuff in the sun that's not sure what wavelength light, which is the reds and the ultraviolet and the near, you know, near infrared stuff. Excuse me, cut that. There's also wavelengths of light. This is my area. So we don't, you know, keep it in it. You know, we make mistakes sometimes. I've made mistakes before. God forbid I would just speak.

[Tom Segura]

All right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

There are longer wavelengths of light in the sun. So the yellows, the oranges, the reds, the near infrared and the infrared, which you can't see, that's the heat from the sun. And that stuff is really important for the mitochondria of your cells and it actually can go through your body. This was demonstrated by my friend Glenn Jeffrey from University College London. Even if you have a T shirt, that's the good stuff. Think of this like the high quality protein of sunlight. So you want that long wavelength light. It's not present in LEDs, okay. It's present in some incandescent bulbs. It's present in, in candlelight and firelight, it's present in sunlight. So you want that stuff. So you don't want to completely shield yourself from the sun. But if you're wearing a light T shirt like that, or like that, or like that, some of that's going to get through and into your body. But if you know if it's appropriate for where you're at, you take off your shirt and get some more of your skin. That's, that's great to do as long as you don't burn. Sunscreen typically blocks the, the uv. Okay. And there's sunscreen and sunblock and it gets kind of nuanced. But if you are worried about the endocrine Disruptors or you're worried about the coral reefs. Right. And the disruption to the oceans that are caused by sunscreens. If you're swimming in the ocean, it's very simple. Just use a mineral based sunscreen. Mineral only, so zinc oxide only. Now a lot of people in particular women don't like it because it doesn't tend to rub in as well. But there's some versions that do and that works just fine. But this idea that you need to completely shield from the sun all through the time, except for people who have like genetic abnormalities that, that require that it's complete.

[Chris Williamson]

What about the endocrine disruptors, is that true?

[Chris Masterjohn]

Well those are mostly in the chemical based sunscreens. Right?

[Chris Williamson]

That's what everyone's using.

[Chris Masterjohn]

The ones, the benzene based ones, those are very problematic now. Could, could you use them once in a while and it's not a problem? Sure. But if your kids are at the pool all day and you're getting this stuff on, I mean kids skin is young skin is also much more absorbent than older skin. So the simple takeaway is try, try not to get burned. Get some sunlight on your skin as much as you can each day. It doesn't mean you have to get completely naked. You know you can thin, you know, thin clothing can, can do it. But that longer wavelength light is the red light. The best red light therapy in the world. And then ultimately it's the balance between the longer wavelengths and these shorter wavelengths. And that gets into a discussion about like, are LED lights bad? Well they're not really bad but they're really blue shifted and they're really short wavelength shifted. And it's not just about disrupting your circadian. If you're going to be indoors a lot, you want to try and get more of that long wavelength light. You could get it from red light therapy, you could get it from using incandescent bulbs and you can best thing would be get sunlight on you. And that whole thing around LEDs may be causing problems for mitochondria, which is what the short wavelength light can do independent of the effects on sleep. Was considered kind of crazy quack science until Glenn Jeffries lab started looking at this and Nature magazine, which is a legitimate scientific publication. They've been around more than, you know, a hundred and something years and serious science only. Although there's some, you know, there's some horseshit papers are published there, but usually gets corrected over time. They, they published a review recently which said yeah, like, yeah, you can see what you want is that Balanced spectrum of long wavelength, medium wavelength and short wavelength light, but not getting burned. And the best source of that is this thing that we call the sun. So. And if you really want to enhance the effect, you get outside where there's a lot of greenery, because some of that infrared actually reflects off the greenery. So this whole thing of spending time outside and in nature. Great. And even on overcast days, some of that comes through. So forgive the long kind of thing. And, and yes, I said UV on the long wave. It's a short wavelength light. And you know.

[Tom Segura]

Well, you want to, you want to hear a cool sun fact? I just, I just researched the sun the other day. I did. I had Shane left, so I had to do a podcast. Like, I'll just do outer space. And I just talked about outer space. The. So the hydrogen fusion, whatever that happens in the sun's core, that release, that releases gamma rays, which if they went through you, they'll just like literally sever your DNA. They'll kill you. They bounce around in the sun's core. That original light that's, you know, originated in that reaction, bounces around the core for like 17,000 to 100,000 years in the core. Then it gets to the surface and shoots out in like eight seconds. If that. And no one knows, like, what's going on in there, but if it didn't do it, we would just die. We just get drowned in gamma rays and just be dead.

[Chris Masterjohn]

If you ever wanted.

[Tom Segura]

It's amazing.

[Chris Masterjohn]

If you ever want to just chirp out, you just look at wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation and sources and damage, like X rays are damaging. We know this. Right. You don't want too many of them. Microwaves, right. You know, move, you know, heat things up from the inside, basically. So. And it's really cool. Just kind of think about this. And then people go, oh, like, you know, is Bluetooth bad? I actually use corded headphones because I lose the stupid AirPods. But microwaves question. Do you stand in front of the microwave when it's going? Yeah. Interesting. We're completely relying on, on the, on the, the. The shield.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

The literal see through piece of plastic.

[Chris Masterjohn]

We have a lot of trust. The other thing that we completely trust. I always trip out on this stuff is like when the, when the elevator door is closing.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And it's gonna go up or down. And that door is like, huge.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

People go to let somebody on. Think about it. If it didn't stop.

[Andrew Santino]

I know.

[Chris Masterjohn]

And you're just like ripped in half. But we trust it.

[Andrew Santino]

We Trust it.

[Chris Masterjohn]

We just trust it.

[Andrew Santino]

I always get kind of like. I always had kind of a, like, sp. Spooked out with the microwave going, like, you know what I mean? Like, even, like, I just always stand off to the side.

[Chris Williamson]

I'll scoot out to one side. Have you ever seen people that have got fears of escalators trying to get on?

[Andrew Santino]

Oh, yeah, the videos of that.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

And they're like, just terrified of the fact that it. And it's moving at. You know, some people get really scared. Two or three miles an hour. Not even one that's going up. Like a travelator, you know, at the airport. And they're like, holding onto the side. Sometimes it's an entire family.

[Chris Masterjohn]

It's an entire family.

[Chris Williamson]

And there's like a queue of people behind them, like, to escalate.

[Tom Segura]

I was at the airport and there was like a mom and she was there, and her. She had like a little kid that was like three or four. And the mom got on with all of her luggage, and it was this big, you know, tall, steep escalator. And she started going down. She turned around, her kid was like, yeah, right, I'm not going down. And I just looked at her and I was like, you want me to put this kid on here? She was just like, yeah. She didn't speak English.

[Chris Williamson]

You just give it up.

[Tom Segura]

Just grabbed the kid, was like, come on, man, get on there. And just set him down to his mom. Yeah, it was. She was like, oh, no, how am I to get back up there when

[Chris Williamson]

she need to run up? And she had two big suitcases.

[Tom Segura]

She couldn't.

[Chris Williamson]

She would have been American Gladiator.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Chris Masterjohn]

My travel days are like, rucking days. I got this big bag I carry with all my supplements, you know, like, weighed down. And then if there's a big staircase, I swear I'm the only person ever take the staircase.

[Tom Segura]

You feel powerful on it.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I just like getting the work. And I don't like arriving in, you know, sweaty, but, you know, it's. You know, there's something. I have shower.

[Chris Williamson]

That is the workload equivalent of you not fapping over a weekend when you're in a hotel. You're like, I did the hard thing. Like, I did the. I did the hard version of this.

[Tom Segura]

I'll. I'll do the steps too. I'll grab my suitcase and be like, steps real hard.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. But then you're in your room jagging off 10 minutes later.

[Tom Segura]

I got places to be. Yeah. My teeth.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm just kidding, man. I'm not giving you a hard time.

[Tom Segura]

No, dude, I'm.

[Chris Masterjohn]

I appreciate your vulnerability and your openness about this, you know.

[Tom Segura]

Thank you, man.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah. Yeah, man.

[Chris Williamson]

Boys, I appreciate you all. Thank you for joining me. Tommy, your thing.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, that's a final word.

[Chris Williamson]

Your thing came out. Your thing came out yesterday.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

What was it? No. Yes. Bad thought. Season two is on Netflix. Yes, it's on Netflix. It was.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Is there a lot of poop in this one too?

[Andrew Santino]

No, there's no poop.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Oh, thank goodness.

[Chris Williamson]

Did you have a problem with the poop?

[Chris Masterjohn]

I'm not so comfortable with the poop.

[Andrew Santino]

It was a, it was a bold choice. It was the first episode of the season to go with poop. But, you know, we, we learned, we changed. There's a whole bunch of different stories. They're all super fucked up again. But yeah, does Garth Brooks show up

[Chris Masterjohn]

in this one too?

[Andrew Santino]

No, he's. We were done with him and, and the poop. We have new targets and new fucked up stories. But yeah, it was a blast to make and yeah, I'm super excited about it. Streaming on Netflix. Please check it out now. Out now.

[Chris Williamson]

Out now. Are you on tour?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I have my. Actually this weekend. I don't know when this is coming out, but I'll be in Toronto Friday and the 15th and then 16th, I'll be in Chicago.

[Chris Williamson]

Unreal. And then you've got a book that

[Chris Masterjohn]

comes out, Protocols User Manual for the Human Brain and Body. And it's out for presale. It comes out in September, finally. And yeah, you know, I always say if nothing cures insomnia, you know, this book will do it.

[Andrew Santino]

So I'm going to go rub one out right now.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Andrew Santino]

All right.

[Chris Masterjohn]

Thanks for hosting us, Chris.

[Chris Williamson]

See you next time. I get asked all the time for book suggestions. People want to get into reading fiction or nonfiction or real life stories. And that's why I made a list of 100 of the most interesting and impactful books that I've ever read. These are the most life changing reads that I've ever found. And there's descriptions about why I like them and links to links to go and buy them. And it's completely free and you can get it right now by going to chriswillx.combooks, that's chriswillx.combooks.