Rick Middleton | Thursday Afternoon Monday Morning Podcast 3-5-26

Summary

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Monday Morning Podcast – March 5, 2026

Episode: Rick Middleton | Thursday Afternoon Monday Morning Podcast

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of the Monday Morning Podcast, hosted by Bill Burr, is a two-part variety show blending sports nostalgia, relationship advice, and offbeat banter—including long, lively interviews with hockey legend Rick Middleton and industrial music icon Al Jourgensen (of Ministry). The core of the episode centers on hockey—specifically, Bill’s fandom and a deep-dive into Middleton’s career, the Bruins, old NHL brawls, and Rick’s new documentary about coaching the 2002 Paralympic sled hockey team, "Ice Gold". The second half shifts to tales of music, substances, and conspiracies with Jourgensen, inviting listeners into a freewheeling, comedic, and often irreverent conversation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. Nostalgia, Bruins Hockey, and Rick Middleton’s Career

Opening & Fanboying (00:00–01:20)

• Bill introduces Rick Middleton as a childhood hero from the Boston Bruins, sharing stories of growing up a fan and idolizing #16.
• Middleton thanks Bill and jokes about Bill disgracing his jersey in pickup hockey.

The Bruins in the ‘80s & Line Chemistry (01:20–05:30)

• Middleton highlights the impact of centerman Barry Peterson on his production.
• Discusses the challenge and importance of line assignments, ice time, and having the right chemistry:
  • “Ice time is the big secret… if you’re only playing six minutes a game, you’re not going to score 50 that year.” (Rick Middleton, 03:28)

Memorable Tales: First NHL Years, Press Trouble, and Transfers (05:30–09:18)

• Middleton reminisces on legendary bench-clearing brawls against Montreal, impact of lack of concussion protocols back then.
• Recalls the infamous New York Post headline that preceded his trade to Boston:
  • “Middleton take shot at the Boss. That was February. I got traded in May.” (Rick Middleton, 08:25)

International Play & Team Chemistry (09:18–11:27)

• Middleton describes playing on Team Canada with legends (Gretzky, Bossy, Goulet), and how success often depends more on team chemistry than raw talent.

Bruins-Canadiens Rivalry, Sports Atmosphere, and Nostalgia (11:27–12:57)

• Burr shares memories of intense Bruins-Canadiens games in Boston Garden, including French exchange student fans risking chaos.

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II. “Ice Gold” Documentary and Paralympic Sled Hockey

Genesis of the Project (12:57–15:16)

• Rick was initially unfamiliar with sled hockey: “That’s not a made up story. When they asked me, I lied. I said, ‘Oh yeah, I know sled hockey.’ I didn’t have a clue.” (Rick Middleton, 12:57)
• The team’s journey: from last seeds, post-9/11 challenges, to ultimately winning gold after dramatic shootouts.

Team Dynamics & Leadership Challenges (15:00–18:49)

• Discussion of ego clashes, specifically with the dominant Chicago team and a contentious coach, leading to team division.
• Middleton emphasizes that winning required teaching a unified hockey system, not just assembling top talent.

Implementing Structure and Buy-in (19:34–22:36)

• Middleton details the system he brought in—hard forechecks, positional hockey, echoing Don Cherry’s “dump and run” Bruins style.
• Early resistance from players, but system buy-in arrives late in preparations—right before the games.

Notable Moment:

• “If you don’t do it, you’re not going to play. … Everybody had to do the same thing. If the centerman and the left winger’s doing their job and the right winger’s over here, you know, they’re not doing it right.” (Rick Middleton, 22:36)

Paralympic Sled Hockey Today (48:09–49:43)

• After their 2002 gold, US teams have become a dynasty.
• Highlights current sled hockey heroes and the full-contact intensity of the sport.

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III. Old School NHL Tales and Hockey Culture

Toughness, Enforcers, Characters (37:33–41:15)

• Middleton reflects on rough, physical teams: Boston, Philly’s Broad Street Bullies, and notorious NHL troublemakers (Dave Schultz, Stan Jonathan, etc.).
• Bill marvels at the wildness of ‘70s and ‘80s hockey—bench-clearing brawls, legendary enforcers, and the unique blend of finesse and fighting.

On Rivalries and Hockey’s Atmosphere (42:00–45:45)

• Islanders-Rangers rivalry, Boston’s unique rink characteristics, and cultural quirks are discussed, including memories of family games and arena architecture.

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IV. Life After Hockey: Personal Stories and Reflections

Rick Middleton’s Post-Career Reflections (44:50–45:45)

• Touching memories about family, growing up in Toronto, and the powerful nostalgia of attending games with one's father.

Substance Use, Quitting Drinking, and the Appeal of Hockey (47:03–48:09)

• Bill and Rick bond over the joys of pickup hockey, and staying active with non-alcoholic beers as they get older.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We had many bench clearing brawls against Montreal... Apparently, I came back out and played the next two periods. I scored a goal. I don’t remember it.”
  (Rick Middleton, 06:05)

• “I was a young guy in New York City... there were no rules. And really, New York was a lot of fun, playing at Madison Square Garden.”
  (Rick Middleton, 07:00)

• “If you want to beat the best teams in the world, you better figure out how you’re going to get the puck. Because every film I saw in the past, these guys never had the puck.”
  (Rick Middleton, 17:03)

• “If you told me the way I was playing was wrong, call me crazy—I would listen to you. I’d be like, ‘That’s Rick Middleton!’”
  (Bill Burr, 22:18)

• “You’re supposed to score, and then you would. But, like, I went to all the Bruins-Canadiens games because I loved the fights.”
  (Bill Burr, 05:31)

• "Paralympics are starting this Saturday. ... There's a player on the US team by the name of Declan Farmer. He's a McDavid of sled hockey. And this is full check."
  (Rick Middleton, 49:01)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–01:20 – Introduction, Burr’s fandom and Middleton’s arrival
• 01:20–05:30 – Bruins line chemistry and impact on career numbers
• 06:05–06:35 – Concussion stories and absence of protocols in old NHL
• 07:00–08:53 – Wild NYC days, press/ownership conflicts, and the trade to Boston
• 09:34–11:27 – Playing with Gretzky & Team Canada, lessons on team gelling
• 12:57–14:22 – Discovering & coaching sled hockey, making the “Ice Gold” documentary
• 15:00–18:49 – Ego clashes, team unity, and leadership through adversity
• 19:34–22:36 – Teaching hockey systems to the US Paralympic team
• 48:09–49:43 – Sled hockey’s evolution and elite players today
• 37:33–41:15 – NHL fights, enforcer mentality, and rivalry memories

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Tone and Language

• Bill Burr’s signature comedic, irreverent, and nostalgic style—often self-deprecating (“I played some pickup hockey… If Rick is telling me that, eventually I’m going to be over there” – 22:18).
• Rick Middleton comes across as humble yet candid, offering a direct, upbeat, and sometimes dry perspective on the realities of pro hockey past and present.
• Frequent friendly ribbing, Boston sports banter, and down-to-earth storytelling.

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Additional Notes

• The episode also features a lengthy second segment with Al Jourgensen (Ministry), not covered in this summary, in which Bill shifts to music, psychedelic drug stories, conspiracies, and more unfiltered comedic dialogue.
• The original episode is peppered with ad reads and comic tangents, which have been omitted from this summary to focus on core content.

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For Fans & New Listeners

Whether you’re a lifelong hockey fan or just interested in inspiring sports stories, this episode offers an engaging look at the grit, drama, and camaraderie of both NHL legends and Paralympic athletes. Bill Burr’s mix of genuine reverence and quick-witted humor keeps it lively, making “Ice Gold” (the documentary) and Middleton’s remarkable career stories instantly appealing—even to those new to the game.

Transcript

[Bill Burr]

Hey, what's going on, everybody? It's Bill Burr and it's time for the Thursday afternoon, just before Friday Monday morning podcast. And I'm just checking in on you. And I have a guest. I can't even believe this guy is on my podcast. This is one of my heroes growing up, little Billy Freckles. When I had my big orange Afro back in the early 80s, and I used to go down to the Boston Garden and go to all the Bruins games, one of my favorite players of all time, the one and only number 16, captain of the Bruins from 85 to 88, Mr. Rick Middleton. What's going on?

[Rick Middleton]

Hey, Bill, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. This is awesome.

[Bill Burr]

Are you kidding? You have no idea. I got your jersey under my bed there. I used to play pickup hockey and I was just disgracing your name and number, so I had to put on my J. Miller one. And then I couldn't fight.

[Rick Middleton]

You had to knock a few people around.

[Bill Burr]

No, you have no idea. Like, I fell in love with hockey and the BRUINS in, like, 1980, and that was, like, I saw the end of, like, the Stan, Jonathan Wensick, Wayne Cashman, those big bad Bruins. And then there was like, the Peter McNabb, Barry Peterson. You both crowded.

[Rick Middleton]

When Barry came to the team, you know, my. My numbers and my, you know, production went straight up. He became my centerman and we took off.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, you know, I was going to ask you, you know, because I watched, you know, this year was watching the Bruins, seeing, like, Kustininov coming from the third line up to the first line. And, like, as much as Pasta scores goals, his passes are on some of the best passes in the league.

[Rick Middleton]

And he can handle the puck and he sees the play as, you know, it's all about not only being able to skate fast, but be able to do everything at that speed. Everybody can skate fast, but if you can't think. If you can't think fast enough to make a pass and see the lane, and he seems to have that, and now they're moving him up the lineup.

[Bill Burr]

How is that? As someone like yourself, before we get into, you know, promoting your documentary and everything, I should say it in the beginning. He has this amazing documentary that I watched last night about his coaching the 2002 Paralympic sled hockey team. It's called Ice Gold. It's on NBC. Peacock. Is that what it is?

[Rick Middleton]

Just started streaming.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

I gotta talk. I could not believe the drama. I would have just thought everyone would have been like, this is Amazing. They're letting disabled people play. Everybody's having a good time. And it was just like, you know, if you all.

[Rick Middleton]

I called it the bizarro world of sled hockey back in those days.

[Ad Read Announcer]

It was.

[Bill Burr]

But anyway, I want to get back to that question, because, you know, Ustininoff, who's having a great season, but, like, playing on the third line versus the first line, as far as, like, quality opportunities and your numbers, you know, how did you ever, as such a natural goal scorer that you were. I'm sure at some point in your career you were playing on a line. You don't have to name the team, but you're thinking to yourself, you know, if I was playing with that guy, if I was on that line, I would have, like, 30 goals. And now I'm down here, I got eight goals, and the coach is looking at me like, I suck. It's like, I don't suck. I'm just.

[Rick Middleton]

No, you're absolutely right. You know, like, in just about any business, you got to work your way up. And it's all about performance. You know, how, not how many, but not how. Just get the goals. And ice time is the big secret. If you're only playing six minutes a game, you're not going to score 50 that year. So you need to get that ice time. So usually when you come in the league, you know, you start third line, fourth line. Back in my day was the fighting line, the tough guys, the guys that would mix it up and get things going. So if you were on the third line, you usually killed penalties and you didn't play that much. And I started in New York, and I always wanted to play with Jean Ratel, but Roger Joubert was his right winger, and I never had a chance until I came to Boston. And when I got to Boston, my very first game, they played. Don Cherry, played me on a line with Johnny Busick and Jean Rittell. Two halls.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, my God.

[Rick Middleton]

And I scored a hat trick, and then Don benched me. The rest of the year he played me, but he didn't.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah, that was in the documentary.

[Rick Middleton]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

So how do you.

[Rick Middleton]

He always joked that he had to introduce me to the goalie at the end of the year. He thought it was a horrible defensive player, maybe because I was -38 in New York the year before, so. But he had patience with me. He developed me, and it took me a couple of years to get his trust that he could move me up the lineup. And I started producing more goals. By 79, at 38 that year. And then Barry Peterson came to the team in the early 80s, like I said, and we just clicked. And my numbers went up, my ice time went up with Jerry Cheevers. Yeah, he kept me on the ice. I saw in a tv, an old game, somebody asked Cheesy, when do you know to take Rick Middleton off? And he says, when he turns blue, I'll take him off. So I loved it. I say, as every hockey player loves

[Bill Burr]

it, yeah, no, dude, you won a breakaway, and it was just a thing of beauty. And I always felt you were so relaxed. You never seemed panicked, like the whole building is looking at you. You're supposed to score, and then you would. But, like, I went to all, like, Bruins, Canadian. Like, my first seven games, I would just go to Bruins, Canadiens games, because I love the fights. The rivalry in the Garden was crazy. And I was at that game, the bench clearing brawl, when who was Nylan was going up. Was that the same game where Nyland hits you with the butt of the stick?

[Rick Middleton]

We had many bench clearing brawls against Montreal. I don't think it was the same game because when that happened, and I don't remember a lot after it happened, I saw the video of it, and I was skating around and they took him off the ice down the hall pretty quick.

[Bill Burr]

That's the one. I was at the brawl.

[Rick Middleton]

Yeah, I don't think there was a brawl after that, but I honestly, apparently I came back out and played the next two periods. I scored a goal. I don't remember it.

[Bill Burr]

No concussion protocol back.

[Rick Middleton]

No, no, no protocol in those days.

[Bill Burr]

Well, I never really. I was too young when you were playing in New York, and I always wondered how they let you go because you were just like this 30, 40 goals a year guy that just fell into our lap. But, you know, you mentioned in the documentary that you were a young guy, you were in New York City, you had a little bit of money in your pocket and you were.

[Rick Middleton]

Well, it was the mid-70s and there were no rules. And really, I mean, New York was. Was a lot of fun playing at Madison Square Gardens. And the. I'll tell you, you know, the funny thing was, in those days, we played the jets, and the Giants would play Sunday afternoon, and we play Sunday nights at Madison Square, and all the jocks would go to the same bar. It was before Studio 54. It was a little bar, the Tittle Tattle on First Avenue. And we go there, but we had to be back on the ice Monday for. But, you know, when you have a winning team you know, they look the other way on that. If you're winning, you're doing good. But the second year, when they made the big trade for Esposito and Vadnais, for park and Retell, they were cleaning house, and that team never gelled. And when you have a losing team, everybody's on the chopping block. And what happened was they traded Derek Sanderson earlier in 75. Him and I played together. That's why I wore 16 in Boston. A lot of people don't know that because Derek and I were friends my rookie year in New York. So they train him early the second year, and a couple months later, they asked the owner why they trade Derek. And he put in the paper that because he was getting to the younger players into training problems. Rick Middleton and Ron Gressner, they actually put our names in the paper.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Wow.

[Rick Middleton]

I was a little ball about it, but I didn't say anything right away. And a couple weeks later, a reporter comes in and asked me the same questions again. You know, what did I think? And I didn't say anything, you know, out of. That would get me in trouble. Let's put me that way. Next day, I walk into practice, my teammate hands me the New York Post, Inch high headlines, Middleton take shot at the Boss. That was February. I got traded in May.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, but that was also your education. That's amazing. That's your education out of the press, though. That's why Bill Belichick wouldn't say anything to him, because no matter what you say to him, they turn it into some BS like that, and then they turn around and punish him, and they don't vote for him in the hall of Fame. It's really.

[Rick Middleton]

I found it hard to believe the New York Post would do that.

[Bill Burr]

I know Such a respectable newspaper. So before we get into the documentary, when you played with team Canada in 84, I'm thinking, that's got to have. Is it Gretzky and Messier on that team?

[Rick Middleton]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I got. I was lucky enough to make it an 81 because Gilbert Perot got hurt. And they asked me if I could play left wing. And Don had played me at left wing a lot in the 70s. So I said, oh, yeah. So I made it at left wing in 81, and we lost to the Russians in the final. And in 84, I got invited back, and I was up in the air about going. So I went to camp, and they put me on the line with grass. I'm like, why didn't you tell me? I would have like, worked out harder or something, you know. And Michel Goulet, who's in the hall of Fame from the Quebec Nerd eats. It was a great line, but the team never gelled. We finished fourth in the round robin, almost lost out. We were. Russians were first. So we played them in the semifinals and we beat them in overtime on a Mike Bossy tip in. And we played the Swedes in a two out of three final. And we won the Canada cup that year. But it was awesome playing on the same line with Gretz and Gula.

[Bill Burr]

Well, I think that's a nice way into your documentary as far as, like, you're talking about the team not gelling and everything. And if you had to, like, you know, if you were a batting man and you knew two teams were playing, one team gelled and one team had more talent, you're going with the team that gels.

[Rick Middleton]

Yeah, I mean, the team that's together, you can tell. Teams that really have it together or played. That's the way I looked at the Bruins in the 70s. We were almost by the numbers. Teams got so frustrated against us because we were such a good defensive team and we could score goals also. And the team was tough, you know, nobody wanted to come in Boston Garden. We had. We had it all. It was only for the Montreal Canadiens that had all that talent that could be our team. But we had the team that really gelled well together. We just couldn't get over the hill and beat Montreal.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, well, unfortunately, my first Bruins game I went to was game one of the 83 playoffs. You know, best three out of five. We won the President's Trophy that year. And then those guys came in and they swept us. And I remember I went to the game. We went to the game through my high school because the French exchange students had come and they heard people that were like, you know, Montreal Canadian fans, they're speaking French. So they were like openly rooting for the Canadians. Aggressively at that could be dangerous in Boston Garden. Yeah. I still remember my teacher, she was kind of looking around like, wow, this is like getting intense. And I'm like, these kids are about to. You know, they were like European too. So they were built like a number two pencil. And I'm like, they're going to get thrown down onto the ice. So anyway, so last night. So I watched. This is some really amazing. And I don't know if it was on purpose, but, like, you know, you're watching these disabled hockey players, and one of the things that they brought up in it was when they were talking to the press, they said, say anything about us but don't say we're inspirational. We are so sick of people saying that we're inspirational. We just want to be treated like athletes. And the thing about it is the story is so familiar that you, you forget after a while and you just watch. And then I really enjoyed like sled hockey. I'm like, this is cool. I love how they would go under the sled with the sticks and the different boots.

[Rick Middleton]

Back in those days, nobody knew about sled hockey. I didn't know what sled hockey was. That's not a made up story. When they asked me, I lied. I said, oh yeah, I know sleddhock now. I didn't have a clue, but I heard hockey Paralympics, you know, it might be fun. When would I get the chance? So I took a shot at it and not knowing what bees nest I was going into and what was going to happen. And then, you know, right after our selection camp in August 019, 11 happened. So we never played another team all the way to Salt Lake City six months later. So we had no clue. Plus we're the last seed out of six teams. We got 10 new guys on the team. We had no clue how we were going to do and we ended up winning all five of our games, outscored the opposition 22 to three, beat Canada, the number one seed, five one in front of 6,000 people. Go to the gold medal game. Goes three three into a 10 minute overtime, five man shootout, down to the last shooter. You can't write this stuff. Yeah, and we had 100 hours of original tape from husband and wife team, Chris and Cindy who were in the documentary that took it back then. And we're going to make a documentary and haven't done it yet. We were lucky enough that they would make a deal with our producers now. And we got all that original tape right in the dressroom, right on the bench of, you know, interviews at home with the players.

[Bill Burr]

I have to be honest with you, having been in a few edit rooms to see that they had a year of footage. I was like, oh my God, it was incredible.

[Rick Middleton]

Incredible.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

They're going to miss the next four years of their life. Well, but let's just back up for a second. This is what like really what I was saying, how it was this amazing, like familiar story and then like because it was such a new thing, this sled hockey. There was the guy before they went out and reached out to you, the best team, sled hockey team they were like 71 and one was this team out of Chicago.

[Rick Middleton]

Well, I don't know where those numbers came from, but yeah, okay, they were good.

[Bill Burr]

I know, I know, I know. That's like the Montreal Canadiens, like, they're counting Stanley cups from, like 1898 when the Stanley cup was the size of a shot glass and you want it on a pond, it's like, all right.

[Rick Middleton]

No, they were. They were good. What made them good is that they were funded. Chicago Blackhawks gave them a sponsorship. They were able from the ric, the Rehab Institute of Chicago. They had ice time that was paid for. They had money to go to trips to tournaments and in Europe and such. And then they would bring in guys from other, like Texas, New England and form an all star team and play. So this coach thought, well, he should be king, you know, why are you bringing somebody in from the outside? When I got the best team, there wasn't even a league then. This is just teams from around the country.

[Bill Burr]

I actually really. I don't know why I really. Watching him not Job, he just was so, like, arrogant, like, hey, I got the best team. This is. And then. And then, like, how young the sport is that he doesn't get the job, and then he doesn't get the assistant job, but he's still showing up to practice, going, like, I wouldn't do it that way. And like, totally, like, sabotaging the team.

[Rick Middleton]

I had emails like this back and forth back for six months. I mean, come on. I mean, I'm just. We had one four day practice a month. I mean, how much can you argue here? Actually, they kicked them off of the team. They told them not to be around the team, but that's a true story. At the end of the movie about. About him wanting some of the Chicago guys to lay their jerseys down, kind of like a Rudy thing. And they never did it. That's how screwed up this guy was.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, he kind of lost himself in the loyalty anyways. Well, this is what kills me, too, is they wanted him as a coach and they wanted all their guys to. You took eight of them, right?

[Rick Middleton]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

I thought you took eight out of nine of those.

[Rick Middleton]

It was similar to the team, the 1980 team, where you had half the guys from Minnesota, half the guys from New England. They didn't really like each other. Well, these guys, you know, whether they called it ego or they knew how good they were and they didn't think they needed these guys either. So there was a conflict between them. But, you know, being a hockey guy my whole life I thought I understood what they needed in order to make them better. And that's a team. It's not a bunch of individuals. It's not, well, I'm going to play my guys first, and we might put you guys in for a couple of shifts. You had to have a team and you had to have a system. And these guys had never been taught a hockey system. If you're going to beat the best teams in the world, you better figure out how you're going to get the puck. Because every. Every movie, every film I saw in the past, these guys never had the puck. They're always chasing the other team, and you can't score without the puck. It was pretty simple.

[Bill Burr]

I'm trying to think of a world where I'm coaching a team and then a hockey team, any kind of hockey team, they go, yeah, we're going with Rick Middleton. And I argue it.

[Rick Middleton]

Well, maybe it was a Blackhawk fan.

[Bill Burr]

Excuse me. So when you're only practicing four days, this last thing, I'll ask, because I don't want people. I want them to watch this documentary because it's really uplifting, but it's also like, you know, there's life lessons in there about, you know, you know, becoming a team, working together, not making it about yourself. You know, try not to. Like, how do you. Oh, you're only playing, practicing four games four times a month. And this team is divided the way that it is.

[Rick Middleton]

The one thing I have to say about them. The one thing I have to say about them, I called a camp three weeks after 9, 11, and every one of them showed up. And nobody was flying in those days, so they were committed to playing for the usa and it never showed up on the ice. All the conflicts they might have had were off the ice, but. And we didn't have enough time to do any team building or go out for dinner or, you know, we were just four days, sometimes twice a day, as much hockey as we could get. And then I wouldn't see the guys. And they do go do their own thing, usually separately. And then we go next month, we come back into another city and we do it all over again. And then that was how it was.

[Bill Burr]

Can I ask you about your. What was the system that you implemented when you looked at those guys? Because it was funny. That Chicago guy thought they were amazing. And you're looking out there going, these guys don't know what the hell they're doing. No.

[Rick Middleton]

Tommy Moulton, my assistant coach and good friend, and I looked at the tapes and said, you know, and you gotta. In sled hockey, at least in those days, it was like women's hockey, most of the goals came from around 10ft around the net. You had to get the puck down low. You're not going to score from a big slap shot from the point very often. And if you don't get the puck down low, you're not going to score any goals. So I thought we got to go in and forecheck hard. And the best way to do that is to get the puck in the zone. Like the old Don Cherry system. You shoot the puck into the far corner. That way your opposite winger knows you're going to do it. So he doesn't even have to slow down. He doesn't go offside. He goes in and bangs the first defenseman back that gets the puck. Second guy comes in, either picks the puck up or if he. If this guy misses the first defenseman, he's coming around the net. He comes in the other side and cuts him off, forcing a shot around the boards. Then our defenseman pinches in, our centerman comes over and covers for him. That was the way we played in Boston in the 70s, at least, is

[Bill Burr]

the dump and run.

[Rick Middleton]

And we, it was successful. We got the puck a lot down low, and it didn't cost us defensively either.

[Bill Burr]

Right, so how long, when you drew that up, how long did it take him before, you know, what you had on your board started happening on the ice?

[Rick Middleton]

I had arguments with some guys that didn't want to play that system because they were so used to doing whatever they were doing. And basically I said, well, if you don't do it, you're not going to play. Right. We, luckily we had three extra guys, so I couldn't say, you're off the team, but you know, you're not going to play. You're going to be this guy that sits. And finally certain guys listen to me. But it wasn't until the second last camp, actually in Chicago, where a couple of the guys, Chicago guys came to me and started saying, all right, all right, if the puck is here, where do I go here? We had to teach them positional hockey in the offensive, neutral and defensive zone. If you win the face off, you lose the face off. Where do you go? What do you do when you have possession? You don't have possession. All this stuff over and over again for six months and not having a clue if they even got it. Once we went in, we were.00 in the first.

[Bill Burr]

I know, I just.

[Rick Middleton]

Japan, the fourth seed. I'm like, oh, my goodness, we're not even going to meddle.

[Bill Burr]

Listen, I played some pickup hockey in my day. I played some pickup hockey in my day. If you told me the way I was playing was wrong, call me crazy, I would listen to you. I would be like, you know what? That's Rick Milton. If Rick is telling me that eventually I'm going to be over there, eventually

[Rick Middleton]

they did, because it just made sense. But everybody had to, had to do the same thing. If the centerman and the left wingers doing their job and the right wingers over here, you know, they're not doing it right. They had to do it as a unit.

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[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Recruiter.

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[Bill Burr (second segment)]

That's new.

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They were just named best home security of 2026 by U.S. news World Report. Dude, the fact that they have an anti theft guarantee. Some is going to go out and then come back dressed as themselves, dressed as somebody else in like a costume and rob their own house. And then try to get paid double because they still have their shit. See that? You got to get in the mind of these criminals, man. They were just named best home security system of 2026 by U.S. news World Report. They've been named the best customer service in home security with industry leaving leading customer satisfaction scores to prove it. Right now my listeners can get 50% off a new system by visiting simplisafe.com purr. That's simplisafe.com/s I M P L I S A F E.com/ there's no safe. Like simply safe. Oh, shit.

[Bill Burr]

I know where I'm going on the road.

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I got Utah and North Carolina coming up because those are the last two teams. I need to see a home game of the Hurricanes, the fucking Utah mammoth. All right, Squarespace, everybody. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Are you tired of failing online? Why don't you get Squarespace? Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings with a professional website, grow your brand and get paid all in one place. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer, everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. From, from consultations to events and experiences. Showcase your offerings from a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. Plus, streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. Upload and organize your videos, create stunning video libraries, and even monetize your content by adding a paywall. Perfect for online courses, exclusive tutorials, and premium workshops. Head out to squarespace.com brrrr for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code Burr B U R r to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com brrrr for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use the offer code Burr burr to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Jesus fucking Christ. How many are there this week? What the fuck? I got one more to read.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, boy.

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All right, what is this one called? This is like a father who has a big family. They've already dealt with three or four kids, and then the fifth one comes up. What the fuck do you want, Dad?

[Bill Burr]

I just wanted to say hello.

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[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Shrubs.

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[Bill Burr]

True Work T R U E W E R K Work like twerk True

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[Al Jourgensen]

According to Jasmine, it does.

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[Bill Burr]

You need work where that performs.

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[Bill Burr]

Dude, you're down there with your Duncan's coffee, right? Leaves blowing all over the place. Toes are frozen.

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[Bill Burr]

This guy's a man, huh?

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[Bill Burr]

working through brutal winners.

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[Bill Burr]

E R K.com Safeway and Albertsons have

[Al Jourgensen]

made saving easier than ever, with great savings on family favorites this week. 16 ounce sweet strawberries are two for $5 member price. And don't miss the incredible deal on Signature select boneless skinless chicken breast value packs for $2.97 per pound limit one plus medium avocados or mangoes are five for $5. Member price. Fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in. These deals won't last. Visit safewayoralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.

[Bill Burr]

I wanted to ask you some. Once again, it's called Ice Gold. It's on Peacock. It is truly just like it's one of those things. Like my wife isn't like really big on watching sports, but she sat down and started watching it and just the drama of that other coach and everything. She really enjoyed it.

[Rick Middleton]

It kind of builds. It's a little slow in the beginning because you get to meet some of the guys and you hear the story and what they go through just to play the game and such, you know, and then, then it gets into like the whole conflict thing.

[Bill Burr]

And then I love the players too. They have all the personalities and stuff.

[Rick Middleton]

It was a lot of characters like, like in real hockey, you know, able bodied hockey, you know, my. You played hockey? I played hockey my whole life. I met a lot of characters in the game.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, I, I was never from a hockey family so I played it later in life when I finally, you know. You know, if you don't come from a hockey family, they're not getting up at 4 in the morning.

[Ad Read Announcer]

No.

[Bill Burr]

Take you to practice.

[Rick Middleton]

It's a special group. It's a special group.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Well, speaking of characters, I got to ask a couple of, you know, old school NHL Adams Division division questions, like when you talk about characters, who was like a team that was coming up and there was just like a guy like oh my God, Dino Ciccarelli or Dale Hunter? Just these mad men that I remember that were out there on the ice that you just didn't want to run into at all. And you know, when you're out there, you're a, you're a player. You won the lady Bing.

[Rick Middleton]

Well, I was, I was fortunate to play on a team that other teams worried about. You know, Terry O'Reilly, Johnny Winsink, Stan Jonathan, you know, guys like that and those, those were just a few. I mean we had a pretty big team and we had a good team and so nobody wanted to come into the Boston Garden because there's no corners. You can't, you can't hide. You don't have any time to move the puck and you know you're going to get banged and there's going to be some friction and you know, I was lucky that they most teams had to concentrate on those guys and I could do my thing and you know, I didn't it didn't always work. I didn't always get that much room. I got a few shots, but for the most part, playing on a team that's, that's tough is a lot easier than playing on a team that you worry about going into other buildings. I mean, when I was playing with the Rangers, the Broad street bullies were around at the height of their Gundam or whatever you want to call it. And actually my first fight in the NHL was against Dave Schultz my rookie year in New York.

[Bill Burr]

You fought Dave Schultz?

[Rick Middleton]

Well, the funny thing was I met Dave doing charity games and stuff afterwards, and I told him in a bar one day that, you know, he had 600, I had six, right? And I said, davey, I said, you're in my first fight in the NHL. He looked at me, goes, I fought you. Well, I don't know, but I probably didn't start it.

[Bill Burr]

That's amazing. It's also amazing that a guy could meet a guy that he fought, not even remember him because he had so many fights.

[Rick Middleton]

Oh, I know, and that was my first one. So I remembered it. Luckily, he missed with a, with a haymaker and an uppercut and then the linesman jumped in.

[Bill Burr]

So, I mean, I've watched highlights during that era. The Broad Street Police, dude, they would pull each other's hair. I mean, it was insane. There was no third man in. That was a wild time.

[Rick Middleton]

Everybody paired up and then, you know, if your guys getting beat, then somebody would jump in to help them. And then the bench clearing brawls, you know, that was, that was the deal back in those days. And you get, you give the Flyers credit because a lot of teams did not want to go into Philly and play them similar to the Boston Garden. The Philly flew and the Philly flew and they had a good team too. It wasn't a great goalie. But in 78, we played them in the Spectrum and went into. They got the first two games and it was funny, funny story because Don hadn't played me that year regular. So it goes, first game goes into overtime. He comes over to me in the dressroom and he looks down, he kind of whispers, he goes, you're going to get the winner. So I look up at him my normal sarcastic way and I look at him, I go, so I must be playing, right? And I ended up getting the winner against Bernie Perad that night in overtime. Terry scored double overtime. The next night, we knocked him out four straight in 78. And that was really the end of the Broad street bullies. They, they weren't the same team anymore.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

And then I think that they kind of got bogged out into how they won those two cups. They just kept trying to do it as the game changed. Like, now they play the game. But I felt like, right through, like, the Carcillo years and everything, I mean, I loved it because it reminded me of, like, the hockey that I liked. What it. Like, I felt like growing up in the 80s, it was the best finesse players and the best enforcers, you know?

[Rick Middleton]

Well, you had to have a conference.

[Bill Burr]

Jay Miller, Bob Probert, and then you had Gretzky, Lemieux, Iserman. I got to see the end of Marcel, Dion, Gila Flores, all the end of Michelle Goulet, the Stassny brothers up in Quebec. And it was amazing.

[Rick Middleton]

It was just an amazing, awesome, awesome players. Absolutely.

[Bill Burr]

But would you say your biggest.

[Rick Middleton]

There was that other edge to the game that was. That was always there also.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Would you say that your biggest rivalry was still. When you were at the Rangers, was it still the Islanders?

[Rick Middleton]

It was only starting out. The very first year I was with the Rangers, we lost a two out of three series in those days. There was some sort of two out of three series, and the Islanders beat it. That was the very first playoff series they won. And obviously, they went straight uphill from there. But, yeah, it's always Islanders, you know, Rangers still to this day. You know,

[Bill Burr]

I had a friend of mine went to college out in Hofstra, and we went down there one time to visit him in the late 80s, and we saw that Nassau Coliseum was there, like, hey, the Islanders are playing the Rangers. And it's just, you know, still the early days of cable, so we didn't realize how heated that rivalry was. Oh, yeah, Fights in the stands. They would chant in 1940. And I just remember sitting there going, like. Because I was just totally neutral, like, I just don't want to get this kicked out of me, but it was just. I still remember in the upper deck seeing this guy with his Michaels. It was the 80s. He had, like, that skinny Michael J. Fox tie. Like, after work, like, throwing up, laying across this guy.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Like insane. Just an insane time. But anyway, I just want to. Yeah, I just. I have to tell you, like, you know, school was hard for me, and that was a tough time in my life where I. You know, I was, like, thinking I was gonna go to a great college, and then. I don't know, it all just. I just didn't do well in high school at all. And I. And I sort of floundered but like

[Rick Middleton]

hockey, it seemed to do okay for yourself.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, well, I turned being a class clown and not paying attention into a job somehow. But, like, during that time, it was music and Boston Bruins hockey were, like, the things that I look forward to the most and, like, the amount of great memories that. That I had, you know, watch, you guys. I love when Butch Goring was on the team and painting his helmet like the 900th different color. And just the fact that the things you remember. Yeah. How the Bruins ice surface was smaller than if you went up to Montreal. Like, no other sport was like that. And just the.

[Rick Middleton]

The old wooden seats. Right, the old wooden seats.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. When I was on the road, I. I took a tour of Maple Leaf Gardens before they ruined it. They'd already taken away the ice, but I got to go in there. That's one of my big regrets. I never went there. Those old places like Buffalo, the odd.

[Rick Middleton]

Well, I'm from Toronto. I dreamed about playing at Maple Leaf Gardens, and I played junior hockey for the Oshawa Generals against the Toronto Marlboroughs. My first game in there, I hated it. It was hot, it was stuffy. There was no airflow. And I dreamed my whole life as a kid to play there. The first time I played. Oh, I hate this. I can't breathe, you know, Were you

[Bill Burr]

fighting the feeling and then finally just gave it to it, like. No, I don't like this place.

[Rick Middleton]

I just noticed it right away. Compared to other rinks, it was very hot in there and there was no airflow. And I just remember that, you know how you remember stupid things. My dad used to take me to the odd game, but he was a printer. He didn't get the tickets very often. We'd have the gray seats way up back. But like you said, you remember going with your dad or your family, and those are your memories. You had that era that you really remember, and it's so special.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, well, that's one of my. I still. When I go back and I do the Cam Neely, Dennis Leary benefit, you know, I still like when, you know, there's always, you know, Cam's there, obviously, Jay's there. I remember you being there. I think you were there the year I saw you at the after party. We all went and watched the Tyson Holyfield fight when he bit his ear. And I remember you walked by and I was like, you know that no one knew who I was. I was like, holy shit, that's fucking Rick Middleton.

[Rick Middleton]

The last. The last note that I have of going there was at the Orpheum. That's how long ago? Maybe that was the year.

[Bill Burr]

But yes, the first year I did it.

[Rick Middleton]

Yeah, he got up on stage and, and he didn't say anything. The first words out of his mouth was bucky. You know what?

[Ad Read Announcer]

That.

[Rick Middleton]

Yeah, that's all he said. That's all he said.

[Bill Burr]

That's one of my, my favorite things. So maybe, maybe next time I do the Leary thing, if you're down there, I would love to have. I don't drink anymore. Have a non alcohol beer with you.

[Rick Middleton]

Yeah, that'd be awesome. Yeah, I love those non alcohol beers.

[Bill Burr]

Yes. The second one feels stupid though. You know, it's like, what am I doing? I know the first one's refreshing.

[Rick Middleton]

I never drank beer in my day. I was more of a hard liquor drinker. And so I drink more beer and non alcoholic beer now than I ever did, which isn't a good thing.

[Bill Burr]

That's where I ended up at the end of my drinking as I was trying to cut the calories by drinking harder stuff.

[Rick Middleton]

I had my quota. I'm good, thanks.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, I used up all my fun days is how I use that. Well, listen, the name of the documentary, Ice Cold, it's on Peacock. Even if you're not into sports, it's such a, an amazing, amazing story and it's a great sport. Like, that was my takeaway. I would go and watch. I would go to a game in a second and it's just like, it's still like you say, hockey is hockey. And I just loved how like, you know, it's funny when they said that, you know, those guys were getting out of the wheelchair. You said you get on the sled, you felt that wind and everything. I always said that about pickup hockey is it makes you feel young again because you feel your shirt doing this. You just feel like you can run again.

[Rick Middleton]

That's why I didn't wear a helmet. Feel the air through your hair, you know. But no, these guys. The Paralympics are starting this Saturday. You know what's great is the Olympics and Paralympics put on NBC. They do a great job of it. And so this, our documentary, couldn't have come out at a better time. Men's teams and women's teams win gold. Hockey is in the news every day. And now the Paralympics are coming. And after. We never got invited back to coach for a couple different reasons, but they turned a gold into a bronze in 06. And since then they won four golds in a row. They're the winningest team in the world. And there's a player on the US team by the name of Declan Farmer. He's a McDavid of sled hockey. And this is full check. This isn't a recreational game. It's a full check, hard hitting game.

[Bill Burr]

Okay, I'm in.

[Rick Middleton]

And if you think about it, where they hit each other is down low on the boards. The boards are designed to give up where the glass is. The stanchions are down low by the ice, and that's where they hit each other. It's like a brick. It's like a brick wall.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah. Do they at least have no touch? They at least have no touch icing or do they just have a car crash in the corner?

[Rick Middleton]

You know, that's a good point. The rules have changed in over 20 years. I think it is no touch.

[Bill Burr]

That's the smartest thing out of all the rules. I hate that they got rid of the red line. I don't like to stretch fast. They cut down a lot. I've seen enough guys break their ankles in their leg.

[Rick Middleton]

Oh, yeah. And then all the fights would start. Somebody hit guy late, even, even, you know, just a nudge. You know, you go in, you just nudge the guy after the whistle went. That starts it, right? Yeah, absolutely.

[Bill Burr]

It's incredible. All right, well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really hope we get to hang at some point. The name of the documentary is Ice Gold. It's on Peacock. It was such. And I can't believe. I still can't believe you came out and did the podcast. You're one of my absolute, absolute favorite of all time.

[Rick Middleton]

I always heard you're a big Bruins fan, but then I saw you do the lineup when they. For the. For the Bruins. I said, I gotta give them a call and see if I can.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah, no, no, that was. That was just. I still can't believe I got. You know what's crazy too, is now that they're sort of wearing like the home in a ways, like you guys Wore in the 80s. It looks more like that. Yeah, but they flipped it. I mean, I'll forever be watching them wearing the white jerseys. And I think they're in the garden. And I'm like, yeah, but they can

[Rick Middleton]

sell more jerseys if they're colored. And you can make them any color you want. It's the smartest merchandising move the NHL ever did.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't like that yellow down the sleeve. I like. I like what they got now. All right, well, thank you so much for doing the Podcast. And I appreciate it. An amazing documentary. And you, you are an absolute, absolute legend, dude. I.

[Al Jourgensen]

You are.

[Bill Burr]

You are. All right, all right, talk to you soon. Thank you so much. And thank you to everybody for listening. We'll see you.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Okay, before I start the podcast, I know this is weird because I'm not saying what's going on. I just got to let you guys know I got a big tour coming up this year and all the pre sales for most of my shows are going on sale. A special password has been created for podcast listeners. To get tickets first use the code Billy Baldwin. You get it? Baldwin. All capitals B I, L, L Y, B A L, D, W I N. It's active now. Midnight on Sunday Eastern standard time. And the public sale will be Friday, March 9th, 12pm all links will be on billbird.com soon I will be in Atlanta, Georgia, San Francisco, Dublin, Ireland, London, England for my 50th birthday. Minneapolis, Detroit, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Houston, Dallas, Las Vegas, Maryland, Virginia, Charleston, South Carolina, Inglewood, California, Denver, Boston, Baltimore, Atlantic City, Chicago. More dates to come. Jump on the website. And whatever you use the.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Where the fuck do you go?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I guess we're gonna have links on all this shit, right? That's right. There'll be on the website. I'm sorry. All right, so check that out. My tour for 2018. And once again, thank you to everybody who's planning on coming out to my shows. I appreciate it. And now here's the podcast. Hey, what's going on? It's Bill Burr. It's time for the Monday morning podcast for Monday. I'm gonna go with what's today? Thursday. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th. March 5th. March 6th.

[Al Jourgensen]

You're asking the wrong person.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I know I'm asking the wrong person. I'm recording this on March 1st. Very special guests on the podcast. We've had two in a row. Two special guests in a row. Which means my podcast continues to get more and more special as I drop the fucking recorder. We have the great Al Jurgen from ministry right here. He's got a new album coming out and for whatever reason, he wanted to come on my stupid podcast to promote it. One of the legends of really last 30 years, basically. You invented an entirely new kind of music, right?

[Ad Read Announcer]

You were.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You were credited with coming up with what they call it, Industrial.

[Al Jourgensen]

Something like that.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Something like that.

[Al Jourgensen]

I just think it was probably a bad strain of acid in the 90s.

[Bill Burr]

Well, you were getting credit all the

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

way back into the 80s, though, weren't you?

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, yeah, that was the good strain of acid. The 90s kind of went downhill. But what is.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What is the golden age of acid, would you say?

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, the 60s, definitely. When they finally figured out the DMT compounds that were in organic plants and were able to make it chemically, that was the golden age because it was pure. And before it hit the streets and they cut it with strychnine and baby aspirin and whatever else. I mean, I lived with Timothy Leary for two years out here in Jesus Christ.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And you survived?

[Al Jourgensen]

Not only did I survive, I can't wait for the book to come out. Because what he would do is he would just have me inject, like, psychedelic compounds that were sent to him by universities around the world, and then he'd take notes on me as the guinea pig.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Is universities code for the CIA, or is it actual, like, university code?

[Al Jourgensen]

Probably a little bit of both. Yeah, let's go all Alex Jones.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah, let's do it, man.

[Bill Burr]

Let's do it. Fuck it.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

So wait, so how do.

[Al Jourgensen]

How.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, how do you meet a guy and how does he bring up, hey, you want to live with me for a while? And while you don't pay rent, I'm just going to occasionally inject you with some acid I got through the mail that's allegedly from a university.

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, the story of how I wound up with Tim is actually better than me being with Tim is I met Tim through William Burrows, which was another story on how I met William Burrows. And we did a video.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

He played wide receiver for the Houston or Oilers. No, that was Ken Burrow.

[Al Jourgensen]

That's Ken Burrow.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I know.

[Bill Burr]

He's.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

He's one of the beat writers that I never read. Did he write Naked Lunch?

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, he wrote Naked. He did, yes.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Bam.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, amongst other things. Nova Express. Yeah. The guy was a genius. And we wound up working with him because basically, because we sampled some of his spoken word, and Warner Brothers wouldn't release. Our record at the time was Psalm 69. I believe that was early 90s, and they wouldn't release it. And they said, well, we can't get clearance for this. And so it was a little blurb in random notes in Rolling Stone that said, ministry album postponed for another year until they can figure this out. And then the Burroughs people called me and said, nobody asked us. We'd be happy to give you this shit, man. Oh, wow. You know, hey, when do you want to work? You want to do some other stuff? They were all happy about it. So then I wound up hanging out with Bill in Kansas.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, when did the album come out? Then so they didn't have to shelve it for you.

[Al Jourgensen]

I shelved for about three months, but it wasn't like the year that they were saying and all this. And then we got clearance. And then William Bill Burroughs introduced me to Timothy Leary during that Lollapalooza tour. And then after the Lollapalooza tour was done, I was kind of sick of rock music, so I just wanted to take a year or two off because it was just. It was just really gross. It was just, you know, all the after parties and all this stuff, it just. It just gets old after a while.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

So it wasn't the music that was happening at the time. It was just. You were burned out from all the parties and all that, everything.

[Al Jourgensen]

So I moved in with the psychedelic master of all time to get my head together, which is not a good idea.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I was trying to picture how this, this, this was going to work. Like, I was sick of the partying. So I moved in with Timothy Leary so he could experiment on me with, like, acid and shit. All right.

[Al Jourgensen]

You know. You know who owns the. The notes that he took on all of my trips because this is a

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

weekly thing, so you're fucking tripping and this guy's just looking at you, taking notes in the corner. I never.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, it was dropped acid.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Is that how you kids say.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, no, no, no. I injected it.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, sorry.

[Al Jourgensen]

Like a fucking lab rat.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Okay.

[Al Jourgensen]

He had injected because he knew I was a junkie at the time. I haven't done drugs in 15 years, by the way, except for psychedelics. I haven't done heroin and coke and all that crap.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And why. Why psychedelics?

[Al Jourgensen]

It's a cheap and you easy uber way to. To get to what people would call enlightenment, as opposed to, like, doing it through yoga and stretching and meditation. That just takes too long. This just cuts to the quick, and you're right there. All the people do, you know, that's

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

why I don't like weed.

[Al Jourgensen]

Really?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Versus alcohol. I feel like alcohol. You earn it, you know, you got to get it down the hatch. You make the face. And like weed, especially the shit they got now. It's like you take two or three tokes and then you sit down and it's like you're borderline tripping. I just don't feel like I earned it. I feel like. I feel like a trust fund kid.

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, I'll say this. I mean, as far as, like, textiles in the modern age, this is cutting in and out.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

This is my shitty thing. I can't move too Much.

[Ad Read Announcer]

All right.

[Al Jourgensen]

Sorry. It's one of the few things that have actually improved over these recent years is the quality of pot and obviously the quality. Quality of electronics thanks to, like, stolen alien technology or whatever the we got going.

[Bill Burr]

Right?

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah. The quality of pot has improved to the point to where it's almost like you used to really get stoked for, like, a weekend of mushrooms, and now it's just like you smoke pot every day, and it's just like the weekend of mushrooms is just like. It's kind of the same thing. Yeah, the pots improved, especially really here.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I've never taken mushrooms either. I've never done any of the hallucinations. Let's do it this weekend.

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, you got a Vancouver show.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah.

[Al Jourgensen]

I'm gonna load you up with some shrooms.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I don't know if I want to do that. I. I think I basically. I think it's just my headphones that it keeps cutting in and out. But I'm watching the little bubbles here, and they keep going up like I'm

[Al Jourgensen]

talking, so we seem good.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Okay, cool. Well, you know what? There's a lot of people out there like myself, that have never tried it, any of this.

[Ad Read Announcer]

So what.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What is it like to be on. On mushrooms? I'm never gonna do it. Maybe when I get, like, my kid grows up and goes out of the house, you'll.

[Al Jourgensen]

You'll do it. No, no, no.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I don't want to do it in a hacky way. Like, go to Josh Joshua Tree and be like, hey, man, like, look at the rock formation.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, no, no, Don't. Don't do that.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

But I want to go to Best Buy and get, like, lost.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, no, no.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Freaking out, looking at the screens.

[Al Jourgensen]

You need to be a veteran at that point. You don't go into a more mall with, like, fluorescent lights or a shop like Home Depot or Lowe's, unless you're an experienced tripper, because that's when incidents happen. So if you go in there and you've done this a few times, you find yourself smirking at the absurdity of places like Lowe's or Home Depot strip malls or things like this. But if you go in there first time and do that as your first, don't call me for bail.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Look at all these shovels, man. Start freaking out. They're gonna dig my grave. Yeah, no, the first time I actually. I think actually was tripping a little bit was I ingested weed and then went to the airport to board an international flight, and I ate two and a half pot brownies And I was just.

[Al Jourgensen]

Too much.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah, it was way too much. And I know I did some sort of brain damage and I just never fucked with it again. I just. It felt like I had, you know, like I told this story in Opie and Anthony a long time ago. You know, like when your foot falls asleep really bad, it felt like there was a ball of that, like, just sitting on my head. Like, you know those, those, those things you use in the shower, Those big puffy things. It felt like there was like that size of it just sitting right on the crown of my head. And it was like weed. Hung over for like two days, dude. I went to Costa Rica and I got off and I. I thought I was gonna get arrested. All I was thinking was like, midnight express and all that shit. But yes, I just. I always like booze because, you know, I was a corny kid and in my world it was legal, you know, like, it's not a drug, man. It's legal.

[Al Jourgensen]

It's a simple high too. It's just like.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, I'm a simple guy.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, okay. It's a simple high. And, and there's a, there's a, there's a spot for alcohol in, in one's life, I would, I would assume. But yeah, it gets a bit more complex with psychedelics and weed and shit like this. And heroin at first, you know, is really. Actually, it's a psychedelic at first, and then it becomes a day to day dragon routine, which you're not using the drug, the drug is using you. All these great cliches, blah, blah, blah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

How long does that take? When is the honeymoon over with heroin?

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, well, technically, looking back on my days, a couple decades of doing that, I would say after the very first hit.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Really? Oh, no.

[Al Jourgensen]

And then you spend the next 20 years trying to recreate that first hit.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Now, were you able to like, try heroin? Right? This is so bad for kids listening. Were you able to try heroin and walk away from it? Can people try it and walk away from it and just be like, you know, I did it. I just.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, I think there are. And especially because the first time you do it, generally it consumes the body so much that you're just so not used to this kind of like forced, almost hyperloop tunnel into the unknown that you throw up. A lot of people throw up their first time.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You get like air sick as you're teleporting into another reality.

[Al Jourgensen]

Seriously, it's like that. I mean, it's a lot of people. Like, I remember the first time I Got. Got drunk. I was like 8 years old. My parents had some kind of, like, 60s, kind of tiki themed cocktail party for their.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Sounds like Drew Barrymore's childhood. Somebody gives you an eight ball. He turned eight. Let's get him an eight ball.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Perfect.

[Al Jourgensen]

Wow. Great parents.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, but, like, I went around and, like, emptied all the drinks that people had left at this tiki themed party. My parents, I was about 8, and I think. I think they're mainly drinking, like, some kind of gin based. Lace. Gin's evil. Oh, it's evil.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Gin is just evil.

[Al Jourgensen]

And I drink that. And I got so violently sick that I never wanted to drink liquor again. But here I am. I mean, I still drink liquor. It's the same thing with heroin. It's like your first time, you're gonna probably get sick because your body's overwhelmed. It doesn't.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

So you sort of hallucinate. I always thought it just made you super relaxed. Like, my only idea of it was in train spotting when that guy shot up and the. He just fell into the rug and sunk into the floor.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Which actually I was like, wow, that looks amazing.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I just can't deal with the side effects.

[Al Jourgensen]

I mean, that scene in get out where, like, the lady hits the teaspoon on the cup and then floats down the chair. The black dude. I mean, you also have trips like that on heroin. Heroin is actually an opiate. I mean, Aleister Crowley and even Lord Byron from, like the 18th century, they used to dabble in opiates, morphine back then. And just like, whoa. You know, and there's bad trips and good trips, but it is trips. Except that a lot of the times you're not awake during the trip. So it's more like a controlled or uncontrolled dreamscape that you're having. Even more uncontrolled than usual because how

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

do your legs feel afterwards? Like, whenever I. Back in the day when New York was New York and like every, you know, 10th corner, there would be a junkie just nodding out on heroin. I remember Marc Maron used to do this hilarious bit about how they never tip over or something like that. But like. Yeah, and the thing was, but they. They would be in, like, doing like, the longest squat ever. You know what I mean? You know, if you do like a set of tennis squats, like, your thighs are burning. So, like, how does that feel?

[Rick Middleton]

Feel?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

That's. That's what I would think. I wouldn't think, man, this guy's. His life up. It's minus 30 out he has no coat on and he's just standing there slowly going down to the ground, like, how do you legs slowly. How do you legs?

[Ad Read Announcer]

Yeah.

[Al Jourgensen]

All right, well, well, okay.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What do they feel like afterwards?

[Al Jourgensen]

Ask yourself this, man. Let's say transport yourself to the Amazon jungle. You got sloths there, right, that sit there and hang on this one branch for like days at a time, right? Those things only poop like once a week. I'm thinking about getting one as a pet. So when I go on tour, it's. I just put a diaper on them and I come home and I don't have to clean anything up. I just have a sloth hanging out.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

He's only moved three feet over.

[Al Jourgensen]

I love these animals, but it's the same thing as being a junkie. You're very much like a sloth. And I'll say this much for sloths. You can diss them all you want, but they've been around for over 3, 3 million years now.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Is there a group of people out there just trashing sloths? I just like how you said you can dis. You can talk about them all you want.

[Al Jourgensen]

I've seen it, I've seen it on the interwebs where like people are like downright bashing sloths.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And I'm like, such a sad world.

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, well, that's capitalism, that's America. It's like, we don't like sloths, we like go getters.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You know, if you catch your fat, I'm trying to make money off you.

[Al Jourgensen]

So that's what, that's what a sloth is like being a junkie. And yes, you can do superhuman feats of hanging on a tree branch for three days and go into squat position. You probably thought like, you know what, you're in an alley, you're high out of your mind on heroin, and you go, I gotta take a. And you probably start the squat and about three days later you finally finish up.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, you know what? The one thing, the one good side effect of heroin seems to be if you survive is you're kind of in shape, borderline shredded for the rest of your life.

[Ad Read Announcer]

What is that, dude?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I, I, Every guy that every rocks I've ever seen that had a 10 year period on heroin, they're like 70, they have like 0% body fat, they still have abs. If it wasn't for their old skin hanging off of them, they could model underwear, man.

[Al Jourgensen]

You just describe me. Perfect. Yeah. They go, thank you. No. I asked William Burroughs, what the is

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

going on around here? The leaf Blower.

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, Jesus. I don't even know who that guy is. Are you sure he's a leaf blower? He's. I think he's from Terminator 5.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It's probably how he breaks into houses. That's his thing. Just walks around the leaf blower.

[Al Jourgensen]

William Burrows at 78 looked like he did at 18. Which at 18, he looked. Looked like he was 78, but it never changed after.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Right?

[Al Jourgensen]

It was like this weird pickling. And although heroin addicts get that they get pickled. I. Not only was I on heroin, but of course, I was on the methadone program for 18 years. Invented by the Nazis. You know, another thing to be.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You don't have a wrinkle on your face, dude, it's hilarious. But all this you did.

[Al Jourgensen]

I'm pickled. And it's been 15 years since I even touched this. I. So basically, I heard your podcast, like, last week, bitching about, like, oh, you're 50 and you're. Let me tell you, the next 10 years, because I'm going to be turning 60 this year. You're in Phil now, man.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

No, I'm going sting in my 50s.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, I. I don't. I don't care how. You trying yoga? No, no, no.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You treat me like a sloth right now. I resent it.

[Al Jourgensen]

You're. I mean, just. Look, I get up and I ride 20 miles a day on a stationary.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Tell everybody what you watch when you do it. Do you remember what you were telling me? At least you were. Last time I talked to you. The show. The reality show you used to watch when you would.

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, oh, that 600 pound life.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

So you'd sit there watching. I mean, my wife started watching this. I was like, nia, you have to shut this off. Because I watch Biggest Loser. They're funny fat. Yeah, but they're funny fat.

[Al Jourgensen]

And they shower scenes. 600 pound life. As soon as they focus in on a girl named Kirsten or something, then the next seven minutes are her taking off her clothes and getting into a shower. It's literally fat core porn on tv. I know.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And the thing is, they don't have like. Like, with the guys, they don't have to blur out anything because they're fat covers, right? It's like they have. They have, like, a fucking Speedo made out of fat. I saw this one guy, he was, like, leaned up against the wall in the street shower and his stomach hung all the way down to his ankles. I mean.

[Rick Middleton]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, my God. Then they come in and the wife will come in and she has like, you know, that, that. You know the do it yourself car wash where they got that scrub brush?

[Ad Read Announcer]

Yeah, they do.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah. One hand is lifting up a roll of fat and she's just. And the guy's in there like. Like, it's like he's trying to hold up a refrigerator, but it's himself.

[Al Jourgensen]

I love that show. That and a ride every day to either 600 pound life or body Bazaar, which is another.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What is that?

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, that.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

That's.

[Al Jourgensen]

That's things where people have tails and eight legs joined at the hip. Two heads.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, like birth defects.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And what do they call it?

[Al Jourgensen]

Body Bazaar. You got to check.

[Bill Burr]

So they went P.T.

[Ad Read Announcer]

barnum.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

They were like, okay. Birth defects. I don't feel like people are going to watch it if we call that.

[Al Jourgensen]

Totally.

[Ad Read Announcer]

It's.

[Al Jourgensen]

It's the only thing to ride to. If you want to do an exercise program. Just like watch that and ride and just.

[Ad Read Announcer]

You feel.

[Al Jourgensen]

You feel better about, like trying to do something for yourself, you know, it's just like, wow, these people have really gone to. I'm kicking ass.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I would love to hear them brainstorming for that show. Weird Bodies. No, no, let's get alliteration going. Body Bonanza. Body Bazaar. Body Bazaar.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Let's.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I actually dropped some weight since the last time I saw you.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah. You look good, man.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I've been trying. I totally dragged that compliment out of you. I laid off the booze for like four months and now I've been like, trying to eat, staying away from the breads and all that gluten shit. And I actually, you know, as much as that's a big Hollywood thing, I feel a lot better. But every once in a while I'll, you know, I'll eat a pizza and it's delicious. I can never just like, totally walk away.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Like, what?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I'm never going to have a pizza again. And I'm not going to eat that stupid gluten free one that's like fat and this.

[Al Jourgensen]

Gluten free.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What is.

[Al Jourgensen]

What, what is that? I mean, it's like Vladimir Gluten. That's all I know is all my friends are fucking Vladimir Gluten. They're dictators on their.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I don't know what it is. I just know I'm losing weight, doing it. And I eat that Ezekiel bread, which just tastes like ass. I mean, it's really just like. It's like if you took bread and stuck it in a microwave and all the nutrients Left. But, you know, if you put enough on it, if you put a little almond butter on it, it does taste good. And I am losing weight. I don't know, but I feel like I'm still eating salads. And it's like, I remember when people were on, like, that. That. What was that diet where it's like, dude, I can eat bacon all day as long as I don't eat this. And it's just like, yeah, Atkins died. Yeah, they had carbs. Yeah, no carbs. No carbs.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Yeah.

[Al Jourgensen]

It spawned a whole beer industry of low carb beer. Yes.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You, like, shit out a cow head at the end of the fucking day, horns and all. I remember watching my friends doing that. I just remember thinking, like, that can't be good. Like, just eating meat all the fucking time. Like, they didn't seem like they were eating salads. They were just sitting there. They would like eating bacon and, like, turkey and not saying any of that shit's bad, because who knows at this point, there's guys out there that sticking now. Like, they're putting melted butter into their coffee.

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, God.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I know. No, but they're saying that, like, that all of that saturated fat that they were saying is now a myth.

[Al Jourgensen]

It's like.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It's like the egg. In my lifetime, the egg, how many

[Al Jourgensen]

times has the egg been in and out and out? Flavor of the month or not?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It's like John Travolta's career, too. John Travolta, Saturday Night Fever, Sweat Hogs, right? Then he went away in the 80s. Then he. He came back with Pulp Fiction. Then he did fucking Battlefield Earth. And I don't know what he's doing now, but I feel like he's going to come back again.

[Al Jourgensen]

You know what? I'm actually one of the few people that. Dude, this is embarrassing. This is probably the most embarrassing thing you're going to get me to say on this podcast. I love it is I actually liked Battlefield Earth.

[Rick Middleton]

Oh, you did?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I never saw it.

[Al Jourgensen]

Forrest Whitaker is in it, for God's sake.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Barry Pepper's in it.

[Al Jourgensen]

Barry Peppers.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

None of these guys want us to mention that. But those are all great actors.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, great actors. And it was written by L. Ron Hubbard, which is basically the same thing that this ancient aliens guy, Zacharias Sitchin, wrote in his book The Twelfth Planet, about how we've been colonized for 400,000 years, starting in South Africa, where they took apes and genetically made them into, like, gold mine workers because they needed gold dust to protect their plant, the farm, the Ozone on their planet or some kind of crazy. Either way, it's. It's totally believable to me. I mean, I don't care one way or the other, you know? But, like. But. But. But that included with all those good actors and this kind of tie in.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It sounded like Star wars mixed with roots.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah. Mixed with mushrooms.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Mixed with mushrooms.

[Al Jourgensen]

There you go. I actually like Battlefield Earth. I remember.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Wait, so that's what that movie was about?

[Rick Middleton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Al Jourgensen]

It was, like colonizing dumbass humans, which they just made from apes through their DNA and. And had them all, like, mining gold for them because they needed the gold on their home planet and this and that. And John Travolta had dreads just like I got now. It was like, no, I'm thinking that movie was pretty cool. And I remember getting a lot of shit for it going, well, I'm all for this movie at the time. And now it's like, okay, I'm embarrassingly admitting that. Yeah, that was pretty cool.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, so wait a minute. But the plot's really interesting. The plot is interesting. So wait, the Scientologists think that we came from apes? I thought they throw some sort of spaceship.

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, well, yeah, yeah. There's a spaceship that comes down, and they needed. They. They tried to have their own people mine these gold mines. And these people just said, you. I want to go back to my home planet. This is work, man. This is like. This is like working as a barista at Starbucks or McDonald's. And so get these apes to do it that are already on the planet. And so they genetically engineered them to be a little bit smarter. And then they started mining the gold, and those guys could hang out and drink.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

So is that where my tax money's going? Yeah, it's going to another planet.

[Al Jourgensen]

Black projects, man. Black projects are all over the place.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What are black projects?

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, you know, all the shit like Alex Jones is on about every day, except he's way off the mark. But just like, what, What?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You don't think that guy's hitting the nail on the head over there?

[Al Jourgensen]

One out of ten?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I mean, he's swinging big. Yeah, he's swinging big over there.

[Al Jourgensen]

I was in the major leagues, his batting average would be about 139.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I know, but when he connects. But when he connects, you know, it's leaving the park. That's why you go, you want to see a guy swinging like that out of. Right out of his cleats?

[Al Jourgensen]

That's it, man.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I can't. Listen. I used to be into all of that and like, I see you got. What are we watching here? Msnb. And I like how they walk around now when they're doing the news to add some level of excitement to it. ESPN does it. They all fucking. They all walk around. I don't watch any of this shit. All right, first read of the week here, okay? And that's the ad reads. And now back to the podcast. Dino, I was talking the other day on my podcast. I was at Wilshire in the 405 right there, and there was a bunch of like, pro second amendment people just standing there. They just were yelling, america, love it or leave it.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Right?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And I just like. The whole thing that's fascinating to me is that, you know, these guys wrote this amendment way back in the day, and it's just like, well, shit does evolve. I mean, it was an amendment, so they weren't. They. That was a change to what already existed. And like, you do have to adjust because I don't have.

[Al Jourgensen]

I don't have. I don't know.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Because I don't have a problem with guns. I don't have a problem with argument

[Al Jourgensen]

right away is there on the corner yelling, america love it or leave it. So they obviously don't love it because they're on a corner at fucking 405 and Wilshire yelling. So they don't love it. So why don't they leave it? You know, because Norway doesn't fucking want them. Oh, all right.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I don't know.

[Rick Middleton]

What.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I don't.

[Bill Burr]

That's.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Why do they not have guns out there in Norway? How do they keep their people under control?

[Al Jourgensen]

No guns.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I know, I. Look, I don't have. Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with guns if you fucking own them responsibly. They just have to figure out a way, if they could just figure out a fucking way to make sure. These fucking lunatics who then go on social media saying, I'm going to do this shit, and everybody kind of ignores it.

[Al Jourgensen]

Hey, man, it's. It's. It's this simple. If you get a couple of DUIs, they take your license away, right? If you're going to get a gun, you've had a couple batteries, assaults, domestic shit, all sorts of crappy stuff, and you tortured animals as a child and you've been thrown out of five schools. It's probably not a good idea to get a gun. I have nothing against guns either. I mean, look, you know, if you're some Grizzly Adams type living in a cabin in Colorado, shooting grizzly bears, for hides, food, tent, sustenance, this and that. Good on you. You know, you're probably a responsible gun owner.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, he's good. He's gonna create the next people. Guys that this all goes to, they

[Al Jourgensen]

got beat up too much in high school. They weren't part of the cool clique. They start making threats on YouTube, this and that and the other. They beat up their wife, their girlfriends, this and that. They beat up their moms. They, you know, don't give them a gun. Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Join a band.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Get into show business like the rest of us.

[Al Jourgensen]

We're presently hiring roadies now.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, speaking of that, before we get all sideways here with the politics, I can't hear myself anymore.

[Al Jourgensen]

Anymore.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Here, let me take this out. Put it back in.

[Bill Burr]

Come on.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You best. Where is it? Where's the sweet spot?

[Ad Read Announcer]

There it is.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You got a new album coming up.

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Tell us.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Tell us the name. Tell us about it. I listened to one track. I love the harmonica on it. That haunting, like, with the. With the reverb on it and stuff. I. I don't know whatever the name of the track was, but it made me want.

[Al Jourgensen]

It made me called Twilight Zone.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It made me want to go play drums. That's how I know I like a song, is I immediately go into fantasy mode and whatever cool thing is happening, I'm doing it. So at first I was playing drums, and then when you did the harmonica part, then that was me and my fantasy. I was playing that and everybody was gazing up at the stage going, wow, look how awesome Bill is. So you're one for one.

[Al Jourgensen]

That could still happen.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, okay.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, We've offered you to come on stage before and you pussied out.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I didn't pussy out. What are you talking about?

[Al Jourgensen]

Danzig at that. Whatever.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, I couldn't make it down there. No, this is the thing, dude. If you want.

[Al Jourgensen]

Look like we were ready to rent you a helicopter to fly down on the stage and have you come back and play drums.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

All right, now that you said I'm a. I, I'll do it. I'm playing a little bit of double bass now. I just don't want to ruin it. I don't want to ruin it because people are coming there to see you, like, and that. You know what? It was too, because you were doing a festival, so I figured you played a shorter set.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Like, if. If you're going there and it's a full on you show, if you have some jerk off comic come on for one song, I think the Crowd can handle that. But if it's just like, hey, we only got time for six songs. And on one of them, the guy from VH1's I Love the 80s Strikes Back is going to play drums now. I know you guys might get a

[Al Jourgensen]

kick out of that.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I'm just worried that your fans, what they're going to fucking throw at me when I'm up there, you know?

[Al Jourgensen]

My favorite guest appearance for us of all time was during Lollapalooza. We had Kirk Hammett from Metallica. Oh, wow. Come on stage. We'd known Kirk for a while and we'd opened up from Metallica on a bunch of dates in Europe. And so we got to be friends and Kirk came out and we did a cover of a Black Sabbath song called Supernot at a festival. And we were playing it and we gave him the second lead in the song. So he started going crazy. I mean, his hair was flying. It looked like he had one of those INJ industrial blow dryers on his hair. And there was no blow dryer, just his hair was flinging around.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

He was into it.

[Al Jourgensen]

He was into it and all that, but it just went on forever. And so the rest of the band was just like, well, fuck it, we're out of here. So we all just walked off. And by the. What. By the time he realized what's happening, he's still in the middle of his lead, there's no band members up there, and we're all standing there on the side of the stage like looking at our watches going, dude, really? This is now like going on a 12 minute solo.

[Ad Read Announcer]

You.

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, no.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

So then, well, wait, what?

[Bill Burr]

What?

[Al Jourgensen]

At the point he told me later, it's like he didn't want to leave the stage because he realized he was going to get when he left. So we might as well keep going at that point. I think it wound up to be like a 17 minute solo lead because he knew he was going to get his ass beat on the.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, the thing is, if you guys leave and then he doesn't leave, it looks like. Like it's planned, right?

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, it wasn't planned. We were just bored.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Jesus Christ. Well, now, what is the etiquette if somebody goes to sis, you know, you better not do that to me. If you guys. That would be hilarious though. If you leave me up there and

[Al Jourgensen]

I'll be up there.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Boom, crack, boom, crack. See how long I could do that

[Al Jourgensen]

before I get killed? That's when you start incorporating the Tom Toms and.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, is that what I Do?

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What I would do is I would just. I would do a backwards somersault off the stool, crawl my way out underneath the curtain. Did he get mad at you guys, or do you think it was funny?

[Ad Read Announcer]

No, he was.

[Al Jourgensen]

He was scared shitless by the time he got off. And then we. We all acted pissed. And then I was just like, ah, that was fun, man. You know, and just. But he was kind of scared at first, but he's never come back with us ever since. He doesn't come back on stage. We don't get a lot of guest artists anymore.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, I'm sure he told that story.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Story.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I'm imagining that that went around.

[Al Jourgensen]

I don't know if he'd want to repeat that story. He was pretty freaked out.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I would have told it anyway. So you got this new album coming out, and it comes out on. On. Was it March 6th when it comes out?

[Al Jourgensen]

March 7th?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

March 9th.

[Al Jourgensen]

Ninth, yeah. It's a Friday.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Okay.

[Al Jourgensen]

Very nice. Party night. Yeah. Shrooms.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

That's right. Shroom weekend. And where can. Where can people get it?

[Al Jourgensen]

I guess everywhere. I don't know. Oh, God.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I mean, what are you, really creative

[Al Jourgensen]

guys Wilshire with a. With a Billboard and start hawking CDs. I mean, I don't know where these things are sold. Well, is it gonna be sold anymore?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

They just, like, you know, by the time we post this, I'm sure someone will give me a link and I'll be able to tell people where to get it. I mean, you've been in this business long enough that you know that the whole purpose of this is to get people to hear your shit, man.

[Al Jourgensen]

I've been in this business long enough to also know that I don't really give a. About this part of the business.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Okay.

[Al Jourgensen]

I just kind of, like, do what I do and, you know.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Now, you were influenced, Blake. I always heard those guys you were talking about. Oh, Bill Burroughs, as you call him. William Burroughs, Right.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Didn't those guys, they would write. Type out a bunch, a whole page of story, and then they would cut up all. Every word individually. They'd throw it in the air and then tape it all together.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And then they would just start writing from that.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, that's what I did on. In 1990.

[Ad Read Announcer]

80.

[Al Jourgensen]

What was it, 88 or some shit around, like, Land of Rape and Honey. I decided to do an album like that based on William Burroughs writing, which is how I hooked up with him. Later. I just took a bunch of pieces of tape. Yes, we actually used tape back then. Not just digital and just cut it all up into various pieces and threw it on the floor, spilled coffee on them, snorted coke off of them or did whatever and put them back together. Some were backwards, some were forward, some work, some not. And then put it together and actually told a narrative, which is what Bill Burroughs was saying. I almost did it as an experiment going, this guy's crazy. That can't just happen. Like, he just throws shit random on the floor and it talks to you. But 90% of the time it seemed to work like, wow. Like, you couldn't have done that yourself. So it's like you're throwing yourself to, like, random chance of it coming out good. And sometimes it does.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

How did you get the balls to do that? You got a record deal and everybody else is. Is trying so hard to do it the way that everybody's doing it. You have the ability to do it that way. How did you get the balls to be like, ah, were you independent at that point? So you could take that kind of risk? So you just didn't care.

[Al Jourgensen]

I'd done a couple records for major labels at that point. I did this horrific record where they took over the whole thing for Arista Records. Then I did this other record for Warner Brothers that pretty much gave me carte blanche, but it was still like learning to crawl before you walk. By the time I got to that record, I was just sick of all these people. I figured, like, if these are the people that claim to know what they're doing, then I must be fucking Einstein, because these people, adults. So I just decided to do whatever the fuck I wanted to do, you know?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Right, so how did you come up with. What is. What is that song the fucking worst? It's that thing we stigmata the guitar riff on that. I always thought the guy had a slide.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, that is.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Is it slide. Somebody told me you sped it up.

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, I did that too. And I also added a didgeridoo onto that to get that slide. I mean, I. I get really meticulous on my.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

That's one of the sickest riffs of all time. I played that for my wife and she was like, what the fuck is this? This is awesome. And then you went over the top and then, you know, then she kind of left.

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, back then, people weren't using distorted vocals either. And that was actually quite the accident because we. We had this cheap Sony ass mic that ran on batteries and the batteries were low. And when I went to sing that first scream, it just sounded like a cat was being tortured. Like, yeah, that sounds great, let's keep it, you know, so we, and then we started trying to replicate that sound for the next 10 years. You know, it's kind of like your first heroin hit, right? Next 10 years.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

We should have kept that microphone and those batteries. So what did you just use, like the bullhorn? Because I've seen like the clips of your live shows are unbelievable. And they're also terrifying. Like, I love them, they give me the chills as I'm watching them. But then there's a part of me, me going, you know, I'm glad I wasn't in like that pit down front because, yeah, especially the way I look back then. I look like Ron Howard way back in the day before I look like a ginger. You Brenner.

[Al Jourgensen]

Our, our pit is like, it's scary for us too. We look at these kids and we're like, you know, like, like I said, I'm pushing 60 and I'm looking at these 20 year old kids and I'm thinking like, these could be literally physically my grandkids. And I'm worried about our future. What a bit on stage, man.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What's some of the weirdest shit or scariest shit you've seen when you were on stage?

[Al Jourgensen]

You know what? Not. No, I don't have anything that's like, particularly like, like, you know, you hear about like what was. There's some rap concert the other day that they stopped the concert because they saw a girl being raped in the front row or in the pit or something like that. And I've never.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

How does that happen? Like, other people don't see that there's so long, like, what, what riff were they playing that everyone was so locked into it that there's literally somebody getting raped next to you and you can't see it.

[Al Jourgensen]

I don't know, I don't understand that. I've never seen anything like that. Actually, some of the Stairway.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Stairway to Heaven maybe. I mean, people love that one. They're just waiting for that drum fill.

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, that would be like. If I saw something really weird on a Stairway to Heaven song at a Led Zeppelin concert, it would probably be a hobbit being raped in the pit. Because I never understood this about Led Zeppelin. Don't take me wrong, I love the fucking band. But this guy, basically, his lyrics, we've given him a pass. All he sings about is Dungeons Dragons, castles, maidens, horses and his dicks. And his dick. Yeah, Squeeze My Lemon or whatever. I mean, I mean, this guy's really coasted. This Robert Plant guy for, like, many years. And I love the band. Don't take me.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Did you ever get to see them?

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, yeah, of course. And they're just amazing.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What. What tours did you see them on?

[Al Jourgensen]

Jimmy Page. I saw him at the Chicago Stadium in, like, what, 70? 70, something like that.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I mean, so Bonham had the vista light at that point, right? The orange see through one.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, he was strutting around and he's. Oh, it gets better. While they were in town, okay, they spent three days in Chicago and he did his show at the Chicago Stadium, the old stadium. And I went and saw that. And then I had to work at Wax Track. So. No. So this is like 79.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

So he's got the stainless steel kit.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, no. He was walking around with, like, a little, like, girly top tied off around mid torso. And then who did? Robert Plant, I think.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Bottom.

[Al Jourgensen]

I'm talking about bell bottoms. There were as wide as this coffee table. And he's strutting around doing all this stuff. And at that point, he's in his mid to late 40s. And I. I just thought, like, I just thought, damn it, this is inappropriate.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You know, it's funny. He wasn't. He was only like, 30 or 31.

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, he was born in, like, 40 years, mid-40s. So maybe he should have stuck to heroin because he wasn't pickled. He was strutting around and I'm. I'm going like, that's like. He's. He's doing, like this chicken dance and stuff on here and singing about hobbits. And I immediately zoned out and paid no attention and just listened to, like, the tightness of the band. And you could tell Plant did get old quick, though.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

He was like a young guy. And then right after Physical Graffiti, he just got all the lines in his face.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah. Yeah, it's weird. I think that's genetics, though. I think that's kind of like a Nordic thing. I think he must have Nordic DNA because, like, that's what happens to Scandinavian people, that they look so awesome when they're young. And then because their genetics tell them, like, when they're old, they've spent 40 years of Nordic winters and their skin says you. I'm cracking wrinkling now.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

They just needed some lotion. But he looks cool now, though.

[Al Jourgensen]

He needs lotion.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

But he looks cool now, though.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, he looks great now. He found the lotion.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah, but he never. Yeah, he. But you can tell his face. He never did heroin.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah.

[Rick Middleton]

Or not.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah. He didn't get coke kind of guy.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Yeah,

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

that's hilarious. You can look at old people and tell the drugs that they did well, hey, you're also. A lot of people might not know this about you is you're a huge hockey fan. Are they literally in the house building right now?

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Okay.

[Al Jourgensen]

This is destruction zone one. This is.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

That's cool. We've done. We've done almost 40 minutes before the hammering started. So now you know. And Raise Me brought up Led Zeppelin. One Hammer of the Gods. Oh, right. Right there. Huh? Jesus.

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, yeah. That was. That was a book that put me to sleep.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I believed every word of it.

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, I do too. Put me to sleep. It's compared to like the we did. And not only just us. You're talking.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You put a shark in on a woman. Is that what happened?

[Ad Read Announcer]

It.

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, hedge water shark.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It was. It's a dolphin.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, no, no. It was a bathtub plastic shark. And one of our roadies was penetrating a girl willingly. There was no rape.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I wasn't about you. I was talking about Zeppelin.

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, no, I'm talking about our tour. That I've seen. I've seen some crazy. I mean, that's uncle.

[Bill Burr]

You know, fucking random that is, that

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I bring in a shark, putting it in a woman. Who the does that? And you actually had a story. You know, it wasn't a real shark. It was a toy shark.

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, and it was. It wasn't me and it wasn't the band it was on. We had two buses. We had the road crew bus and the band.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

The shark bus.

[Bill Burr]

And.

[Al Jourgensen]

And the band bus basically had some kind of decorum going on. But the. The crew bus was literally Dante's ninth gate of hell. I mean, you walk on there and it was just like Caligula on steroids going on. Oh, wow, the. That you'd see. And I just go on there because, like, say I. I'm out of. I'm out of smokes. I go in to borrow a pack of smokes from one of the roadies because none of the band smokes. And so I'd go. And then I'd walk in and just walk into like, Dante's Inferno.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Stepping through an orgy just to get a human minefield of fornication. Try not to step on anybody's fucking hands. Yeah, well, you know, I'm actually. I've had the exact opposite experience on the road, where it's just been a lonely, isolated thing, but I was kind of built for that.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Like people.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Somebody was asking me about that, you know, about being on the road and like, groupies and stuff. It's just like, dude, that just doesn't fucking.

[Al Jourgensen]

It's different for me.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It's just not. It's not what? Like, dude, you guys go up there with a ukulele and you just.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, but how many brown.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And all of a sudden there's panties flying at you. You know it's true. I'm not saying you, I'm not saying you, but, you know, I get bolts

[Al Jourgensen]

and corn coins and bottles flying at me. I don't get panty.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I'm not. Look, you know, some jerk off can go to a goddamn coffee house on an open mic, all right, and he can go up there with the ukulele. It's. He could literally do his cover. Probably do a reggae version of a Mama and Papa song, right? All that leaves a brown man, right? And then don't even tell. And then the next. Do that, and the next thing you know, there's gonna. Some woman is gonna respond to it, you know?

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, but how many people do you travel with when you go on the road?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Nobody. I go by myself.

[Al Jourgensen]

I don't have a handler.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

No, I have, like, open it. No, it's just more people I got to talk to. I don't have a look. If I go to another country, and I don't mean Canada. Yeah, I mean another country.

[Bill Burr]

I.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Wait, no, when I did Canada, they gave, they gave like a road person. I, I, it drives me up the wall. But when I'm in another country, I love it. When I was in Australia, the guy I had was awesome. And I'm definitely going to use him again when I gotta cover my bases here. So they think I'm from the States

[Al Jourgensen]

with you, in other words. No, no, you travel alone. You just go, yeah, Australia. I'm going along.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

But if I'm going to Australia, what I love, I love having a tour manager because he shows up and it's just like, all right, this is where

[Bill Burr]

you need to be.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Boom, boom. I don't have to worry about anything in this transportation. When I go into England, I've had a great people and all of that type of stuff. Great people, Scandinavian, all that shit. But in the States, no, I just show up, I get a. Rent a car like fucking Chuck Berry, Drive up with my mic, stand in the car. Keeps the overhead low.

[Al Jourgensen]

That's the thing, that's. That's where things get dicey. When, like our touring party is about 17 people between band and crew, and there's generally three or four rookies on, on Each tour and the rookies have read too many books like Hammer the Gods or. And so they bring that, that, that onto the buses mainly on the crew bus. I. We haven't had, we've had the most boring band bus for probably about almost 12, 13 years. Thank God.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Because do you guys sit there playing like cards against humanity like that's a crazy night.

[Al Jourgensen]

Actually, you know what? No, we, we just, we get the off the bus, we stay in our little areas and get the fuck off the bus and go to the hotel as soon as possible and then, then our like stupid shit happens at the hotel bar. Not so much on the bus. The bus is like kind of like this.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I'm a big hotel bar guy. I love it because it's like you're already kind of home. It's like you're downstairs in your own kitchen and, and you can just drink down there and then just tell.

[Al Jourgensen]

Bartenders are always like I, I don't even. I think they're psychologists. They're good, right? At least at the hotels we stay. I'd say Sheraton's, Hilton's, this and that, Radisson's, blah blah blah. That kind of those hotel bartenders in every city are, are like, they must have taken a class because they're all real similar. They're all psychology based drink pour.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

My favorite hotel bar is the one you can, you can be like staying on the 10th floor and you can look down over at the elevator to see if it's still open. You know those ones. Rather than have to go all the way down and you'll just see these drunks sitting down there. It's still going. We got to get going down. You don't have to call anybody or anything like that. So. Hey, is there a. Because I do want to put promote your album, man. I think you're a fucking genius. So is, is there any sort of theme on this one? Is it just.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, look man, I mean I've been known to bash our right wing friends before and our right wing leaders such as George Bush and Ronald Reagan and things in the past. But this, this one is not real anti Trump. It's more like what kind of system keeps producing these people? Let's cut to the quick here. It's the system that keeps producing these people that we keep thinking is a good idea to be our spokesperson for our ideals. And the quality of these people keeps going down and down and down.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

So rather than attack, it is falling off. Where at least we had a low bar, we had like we Used to have career politician. Then we went to, like, the Boston. His son. Yeah. And now we got, like, a reality show, like TV star and now. Which is causing all these people out here in Hollywood to go, like, I want to run. Like, the second you say you want to run for president.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You're out of your mind. You're basically saying. You're saying, I want to have dead bodies on my conscience because that's what the fuck you're signing up for. And I'm not saying that you're going to have to go out and do the wrong thing, but, like, in the process of doing the right thing, you're gonna kill people that were just in the wrong place. That's why I think they age the way they do. Because it's like.

[Al Jourgensen]

It's heavy. Yeah, fucking heavy. I get asked this question all the time in interviews. All right, Mr. Political, what would. What's the first thing you do if you were president? I'd fucking quit. I don't want any part of this shit.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I put the solar panels back on the White House, and then I'd leave.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, okay, I'll do a personal.

[Bill Burr]

I would do that.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And I would get. I'd have the guy, the chef there. The chef make me a sandwich, and I want to ride in the helicopter. And then that's it. I now introduce you to the vice President and the person who will now be running all of this shit.

[Al Jourgensen]

You got to throw one party in on Air Force One.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, that one big part that just kind of looks like a giant, like, thing. I always fly in the Marine One helicopter. Always looked badass to me.

[Al Jourgensen]

You're old enough to remember old school. 747 fleet. Have you ever fly a 747?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Dude, I went. You got to go to the Ronald Reagan Library out.

[Al Jourgensen]

I know they have that. They have.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

They have literally the one that he sat on talking to Gorbachev.

[Al Jourgensen]

You never get to go upstairs to that bar and hang out with the cool people while you were flying that 747I always wanted to do.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I did that one time.

[Al Jourgensen]

I got busted twice and sent right back down, you know, air.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It was a spiral staircase.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yes. And you went.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

You went up there and everybody had suits and this. Stewardesses were hot. Yeah, I. When we were. I did this. This run through Asia.

[Ad Read Announcer]

I did

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

the. Did I. Singapore, Hong Kong, and then Mumbai, India. And leaving Mumbai, India, we connected through Dubai and we got on that Air Emirates. Oh, that. That.

[Al Jourgensen]

That's not even an airline.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It's like a W hotel with like.

[Al Jourgensen]

With wings. Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It's fucking unreal. So. And that's even, like, it in. It's better than a W. W was like a W hotel, like, acts like it's nice. It's like, nice. If you're in your 20s, you see a lot of fucking very 20s. A lot of aquarium lighting around the bed and shit.

[Bill Burr]

But.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

So we. We were. We were. I can't remember if we were upstairs or whatever. All I remember was we. Whenever I'm going to fly that far, I use all the miles. Every fucking thing I can possibly do. Make less money.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I'm gonna sit, at least have one of those bed chairs. And so I got up to go to the bathroom, and I walked in the back to go to the bathroom and they had like this semicircular bar.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Like, because it was one of those wide body. So there was like, chair, two chairs next to the window, then an aisle, then the middle, then an aisle, and then over. So that middle section, it was just that. It was that wide in the back where it had like a semicircle and a bartender in there. And they had a little bench seat and some stools around there. Bench seat with, like, a seat belt that you sat down on. So I saw it.

[Al Jourgensen]

You were up there. That's where your feet was.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And I went back. I didn't have the one.

[Al Jourgensen]

Your autograph.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I didn't have the one where you had like your own apartment. Like that one. That one's like 15 grand one way. So I went back and I got my wife. I said, hey, can I. Can I buy you a drink? She goes, what are you talking about? I go, come with me. So we went to the back. We were like, she and she just ear to ear grin. And I ordered a couple mixed drinks. We sat down on the little bench seat. I put a seatbelt on, put mine on, and we just sat there. We didn't have that many, but it was just so fucking cool. It didn't seem possible. It's like I'm at a bar in the sky.

[Bill Burr]

I know.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Flying strange, flying to New York. It was one of those things where I was very excited to get back to the States, but that was definitely one that I didn't want it to end. Where you're just like, oh, my God. It's the exact opposite of riding in coach. Where it's like, you can literally be flying from, like, fucking New York to Buffalo. Do your neck start hurting you too? Sorry. We're sitting side by side.

[Al Jourgensen]

I came by to

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

oh, okay. And I don't know what you're doing. You're taking stuff out from underneath the. All right. Am I allowed to say what's going on right now? I don't know.

[Ad Read Announcer]

He took legal.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Is it legal? I don't know what it is. It looks like he has. Oh, that is wine. I didn't think. I thought that was like liquid weed that you're going to pour into the vaporizer and it reaches a certain temperature.

[Al Jourgensen]

Let me tell you something, man, you are a fucking rock star. Because I've never had an experience that good flying. The closest thing I ever had was I did an 18 hour flight to Australia once and I was on the last fucking flight that allowed smoking on nine seats. Only on nine seats.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

No way.

[Al Jourgensen]

In business class. So it wasn't for a school. First class wasn't coach. And they had nine seats arranged on Qantas for people who smoked. And if I'm going to be 18 hours on an airplane, I want a cigarette. You know, nowadays you got the E cigs and it's really easy. Nobody knows you're like nicotined out of your mind on these planes. Because I'm not a great flyer. Just huffing and puffing on my E cig and nobody bothers me and I don't bother anyone else. But this was the last smoking flight Qantas ever had. It was actually in the news, and I was one of the people that had those seats. And so I get there and there's this businessman from Hong Kong next to me, and he immediately starts blowing his nose on the tray in front of him and there's boogers and all over the seat in front of me.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What?

[Al Jourgensen]

His nose? And I was just like, stewardess, man. I. I can't sit next to this guy, okay? He's. He was really weird. It was rude.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, yeah. I think you're being really nice about this guy to just say. To just define that as weird and rude.

[Al Jourgensen]

And, and the, the flight was booked, so they put me in one of those kamikaze seats that the stewardesses sit

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

on right before they do the little jump seat there.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, a little jump seat. So they put me in there. So I was like, all right, cool.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Why don't they stick the snot blower up there?

[Al Jourgensen]

Like, well, that's, that's the point. So, like, I'm sitting there and I light up a smoke and they just like, flipped out. Like, you can't be smoking here. Like, what are you doing? I'm like, well, I'm not Sitting next to that guy. So we had this like two hour standoff. And they tried to get the guy to move, and he wouldn't move. And so they finally acquiesced. Since it was the last flight with smoking, I got to sit there on the jump seat and just chain still. That was like my rock star flying story, man.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What's with Hong Kong? You know, when I flew from Singapore to Hong Kong on defense of Hong Kong, this guy might have been from Singapore, he might have been from New Hampshire. I didn't talk to him. But up in the lounge there, they had. They had these. They were making dumplings, all right? And the dumplings that they make over there, dude, they literally, they. If you dropped them, they would, like, float plane. No, like in the. In the airport, right? So they keep coming out with these dumplings and this motherfucker keeps going up there, and he would, like, take seven out of eight of them. He was a skinny bastard and he was just. It was like, do you remember Paul Newman in Get Mad at them Eggs? Cool Hand Luke? He was eating them. Like, fucking Cool Hand Luke, just sticking them down his fucking throat. And they were delicious. And it was just like every time they would bring him out, I would have to, like, look over to make sure I could go up there just to get some for me and my wife.

[Al Jourgensen]

So this guy must have done like 20 or 30.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

He fucking eat the whole time he was up there. He chowed those goddamn things. And it. I don't know, it kind of put me in a mood. Like, I was going, this is what Hong Kong's gonna be like. A bunch of selfish people eating all the dumplings. But then I had to quickly be like, wait a minute, wait a minute. There's selfish assholes from where I'm from, and I'm one of them. So maybe I'm going to the promised land.

[Al Jourgensen]

A travel route review Hong Kong by Bill Burr. A bunch of selfish people eating dumplings.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

This is based on one guy who was going to Hong Kong, who. I don't even know if he was going there. Forget if he lived there or if he was even Chinese. So anyways, how do you watch this shit all day? MSNBC. You seem like a news junkie.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, I'm kind of a news junkie. I don't watch it intently, but I, like, keep it on as wallpaper and periodically glance over and see, like, oh, shit's hit the fan. Holy crap, it's been two hours since shit's hit the fan.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

It's kind of more enjoyable with, like, the sound down. I'm loving this guy on the right. He has the exact same haircut as Prince Charles. It sticks out the exact same way.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, it does, except he's got more hair on top, if that's his hair. But what I like is that he's completely covered in the graphic that the stock market has tanked today. They. They do that to people. Like, if I. I have to be on CNN in, what, next week?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Okay.

[Al Jourgensen]

And that's my first time.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, nice.

[Al Jourgensen]

So I'm gonna be in one of those squares. I just hope the stock market hasn't completely gone to. And I get blamed for it. Because that's what you'll remember is this guy caused your stocks.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I didn't even know that that was about the stock market. I. I just look at that guy going, that guy's his maid. Well, no, that's the haircut he has.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, there's people right now that have lost their pension because the stock market's down. And they're looking at this guy like,

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

it's only down 300. 385 bucks, though, right?

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I mean, that's not what that is. That 389. Yeah.

[Al Jourgensen]

It's like down 500 or something before. I don't own it.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

500 bucks. What is 500 makes?

[Al Jourgensen]

I don't. I don't.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I do. And it's the worst. You can't get out of it.

[Ad Read Announcer]

You can't.

[Al Jourgensen]

You pay attention to it. Do you follow? No, I don't.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I just look at it like I'll never get that money back. And whatever's left when I'm 65. Oh, shit.

[Al Jourgensen]

I just view it. It's like Las Vegas without all the really gaudy, like, decorating and. And buffet food. It's just like Las Vegas.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I've done, like. I've done okay in it, but I. I also. I invest conservatively and with conspiracy theories

[Al Jourgensen]

for the blue chip.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

No, I go for, like, tangible. Like people who make tangible shit. I remember I invested in all these companies that were, like, digging for gold and stuff, and then. Because I felt the dollar was going to collapse. But then it dawned on me one day, it's just like, well, wait, at the end of this, I don't have any gold. So I bought them a bunch of shovels and pickaxes to give the children somewhere to dig this out of the ground. And in the end, you know who I was talking. Who the fuck was I talking to?

[Al Jourgensen]

I got a friend in Chicago that has literally made millions of Fucking dollars. This is really sick. All right, but I want you to listen to this. This is really emblematic of what's going on today.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Is this place haunted or is that somebody hammering?

[Al Jourgensen]

No, that's somebody hammering, okay. Just making sure destruction zone right now. But this guy would wait for a mass shooting, and as soon as that happened, he would invest in gun stocks. And sure enough, gun stocks would go up spike 25 points on the day. Like, he come in there and go, 100,000 bucks and just buy whatever gun stock after a mass shooting within three days. He would sell it all before it went back down. And he's made millions just doing that now. It's kind of creepy, but this is where we're at, right?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

But I'm trying. I wouldn't try to make it that way. Now. What way can we do it, Mel? What? Let's think of another disaster that happens where we can make sure some money here. Every time there's a mudslide, you invest in what?

[Al Jourgensen]

Well, I don't know about hair dryers. I'm just investing in pot futures, man. Now that Canada is going legal, I'm all in. I'm actually going to join the stock market. And I think solar and wind and all these other, like, new tech things are kind of a scam. But I'm all into the pot market because we saw what like, alcohol did in the 20s after the end of Prohibition and all the mega giant corporations that came out of that, like Anheuser Busch and all this. And I think pot's gonna be the same thing. It's not gonna be a bunch of mom pops in Marin County. It's gonna be like, huge. Well, have you ever watched that Giants, you know?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah. I mean, have you watched on. On that? Was it Vice? Is that the name of the channel? Yeah, where they. They. They're like, putting it into food. I mean, it's becoming like this gourmet thing overnight.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, I cook. I cook pot food, dude.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Do you think that'll ever happen for, like, heroin? Like, today we're making some opiate English muffins. You take like two bites in, and then you just sort of failed their

[Al Jourgensen]

urine test because they ate poppy seed muffins, or so they claim.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Oh, give me a break.

[Al Jourgensen]

That's what they claimed. But I'm just saying. So there is opiate foods already, but

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

they eat poppy seed muffins after they shot some heroin. That's why they fucking failed their test. That's why people talk. I used to joke about that when people, like, say like, oh, it's. You know, I'm not. It's my metabolism. That's why. That's the big scapegoat. My metabolism. It's really slow. It's like, yeah, that and fucking 6,000 calories a day. That will make you out of shape. So, anyways, all right, let's. I think we're about. Dude, this is the most effortless 58 minutes of my life. I'm so psyched that you made another album. I've heard the one track, the Twilight Zone thing.

[Al Jourgensen]

I just check the video out.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I saw the video.

[Bill Burr]

I loved it.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah.

[Al Jourgensen]

And the new video comes out on March 9 too. Not one of these, like, concocted by the label lyric videos, which we have no part of. And I guess they're pretty good and kids like them and all that, but we don't put any really input into that. That's the label just wanting you to get to know the lyrics and things in the most basic way. Because people have the attention span of a bathroom gnat. And this and that.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Right.

[Al Jourgensen]

This next one is. Is we filmed it all on the same day, this Twilight Zone video and then Victims of a Clown. So I haven't seen it yet. I should be able to.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Victims of a Clown.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah. I should be able to see it tonight, actually. We get some rushes on it and I hope it's as good as Twilight Zone because that one's pretty funny. Funny video, man. I'm out there hanging with Gray Wolf, this Indian American guy I met from aim. American Indian Movement and pretty high level AIM guy, too. And we're out there at this campfire just blowing harps and drinking ayahuasca tea and it was. It was great.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Tell me about your band. You were mentioning some of the guys you got in there.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, we got. We got kind of a pretty good all star lineup. It's. Joey Jordison's playing drums with us this tour. Burton Bell's helping me.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Joey Jordan from. From. Jordan's in from Slipknot. Yeah.

[Al Jourgensen]

Burton Bell from Fear Factory has helped me on the vocals this time. And Tony Campos from old Static X and Assassino and about a billion other bands he's in, is on bass. And then our two usual guitar players, Sin Quorin and Cesar Soto, which are awesome. John Bechtel, which is been with us for about eight years. And he comes from Killing Joke in the early Killing Joke days. And. And then DJ Swamp from Beck. This is. This is awesome.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

This. When are you gonna put your tour dates up? Because I. I gotta see you guys live.

[Ad Read Announcer]

They're up.

[Al Jourgensen]

They're up.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

What's your website first?

[Al Jourgensen]

Ministry. I don't know. Dot com or some. I really. I don't know. I'm not the best promo sexual. You.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah, I'm finding that. I'm finding that. All right. But Al has a new album out. His band's called Ministry. You can buy it somewhere. And he has a website that has the name Ministry in it.

[Al Jourgensen]

Something like that.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

And he is on tour, and somewhere those dates are available.

[Al Jourgensen]

It's like a treasure map. And at the end, you get the pot of gold. Just find it. It's just right. Ministry. And either you'll get put to some Billy Graham webpage or you'll get put to us. But I know that somewhere you'll wind up on our page and you'll figure out.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Okay, well, dude, you're one of my favorite people. I always love talking to you. And it's an honor that you wanted to come onto my podcast to promote your album if. If I hope that you wanted to and it wasn't your label making you do this. And this has been an uncomfortable hour.

[Al Jourgensen]

My label doesn't even know about this. Oh, okay. This is you, Liz and me.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

This is all right.

[Al Jourgensen]

And then we're just gonna spring it on him and go, you. So what do you do for me? Nothing. We did. We got this famous guy to come over to us.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I don't know about that. I have a little notoriety.

[Al Jourgensen]

I don't know what I'm saying, though. This is not label sanctioned.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

All right, so last thing. What are you. What are you Blackhawks doing? I barely watched hockey this year, and my Bruins made all these moves. We bought, you know, a couple guys from off the.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, you got. You got Wingles from us. A nice fourth line guy for you guys. You guys, we got Nash from. Yeah, yeah, you got Nash from the Ring Rangers. You guys are looking good. I mean, and. And this is good for Boston. You needed this. Because when. When Claude. Julianne was your coach and you guys were up, down this good. I loved him. I loved him.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Al Jourgensen]

But it was real bipolar there for a while.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, he did lead us to our first cup in 40 years, so.

[Al Jourgensen]

I. I know. I know, because we had three of them. My Chicago box in there. Remember?

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

We tied it up and then you guys. I know you guys tied it up and then.

[Al Jourgensen]

Then you 10.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Yeah.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah. That was good. Yeah, boy. Well, for me, anyways. But yeah, we're. We're tanking right now. Thank God.

[Ad Read Announcer]

It's.

[Al Jourgensen]

It's Time to, like, get some new blood. I mean, the. The general manager, Stan Bowman, it was his first year after the first cup, and he made the rookie mistake of a GM and just like, oh, well, of course, Chicago hadn't had a cup in like, 40 something years. The other one's like, we got to get. Keep this team forever. And, you know, everyone thinks that they're all junkies and they're going to look the same 20 years from now as they. And. And so he overpaid all these people, locked them in with no trade contracts, and. And now we're stuck with all these decaying old guys that don't do enough.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Harold Seabrook still playing for you guys?

[Al Jourgensen]

Oh, yeah, I think. I mean, he. He's out there.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

That's the best number in hockey. Seven.

[Al Jourgensen]

Seven. Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Well, and individual.

[Al Jourgensen]

And nine. Nine and seven.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Nine's a good one, too.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Any. Any like a single digit one? Yeah, it's cool. But those all got retired because all the best guys had them. So now, like, the big things to have the double.

[Al Jourgensen]

Yeah, that did.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

77, 99, 88, all of that. All right, cool. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I can't wait to hear the new album. And furthermore, I can't wait to see you guys live. If you're doing a full show, I will come out on a toy drum set we got with a double bass pedal.

[Al Jourgensen]

We got March 22nd or so in Anaheim and March 23rd in Ventura. And I want drums at one of those shows if you. If you can fit it in your schedule, that'd be awesome. Absolutely.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

But I don't. I don't know that I'm gonna be able to like my double bass player. I'm just starting.

[Al Jourgensen]

No, no, we'll. We'll give you an easy song to play. How's that? We'll give you something and. And we won't with you too hard, I promise.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Hey, it's your show, man. I don't give a. You want to. With me?

[Bill Burr]

With me.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Just the fact that I'll get to do it will be awesome.

[Al Jourgensen]

All right, Al.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

Thank you so much. And everybody, thank you for listening. And I'll check in on you on Thursday.

[Al Jourgensen]

Thanks, man.

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

No worries. Into the shining sun. While the season

[Al Jourgensen]

of change.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Side

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

of the rain fell dark and slow While I pondered on it's dangerous

[Bill Burr]

but irresistible pastime

[Bill Burr (second segment)]

I took a heavily ride through our silence I knew the moment had a run.

[Al Jourgensen]

Sam.