Morgan Lavoy (2:54)

I honestly can't believe that I aired this once and I'm about to do it again.

Nicole Lapin (2:58)

It is probably one of the most embarrassing moments of my life. But this totally mortifying moment happened when I was trying to answer the question when is it a bad idea to bring your romantic partner into work? In this conversation, we give you a framework to help you decide when your personal life and professional life should stay in separate lanes. And then, just for funsies, we spontaneously call up the guy at the center of my embarrassing moment. I honestly might delete this at some point.

Morgan Lavoy (3:25)

It is just that embarrassing. So please enjoy it while you can.

Jason Pfeiffer (3:36)

This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, Editor in Chief of.

Morgan Lavoy (3:42)

Entrepreneur Magazine, and I'm money expert Nicole Lapin.

Nicole Lapin (3:45)

On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the helpline and help callers solve their work problems.

Jason Pfeiffer (3:49)

And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.

Nicole Lapin (3:55)

And it starts now.

Jason Pfeiffer (3:57)

You going to be able to keep it together for this one?

Morgan Lavoy (4:00)

I'll try.

Jason Pfeiffer (4:04)

So, Nicole, we have a real topic to discuss today, but before we get there, we got a real story we got to hear. I'm not going to give anything away about this story of yours, but I will just tell you that I received this voice memo which you sent to Morgan and I. We are about to play it. I happened to be sitting in a very drab airport eating a awful airport stromboli and I nearly spat that thing out. Can we just play this?

Morgan Lavoy (4:30)

Oh my God, yes. And I guess the only thing dear listeners need to know for context is that in this voice note I was describing how I introduced my boyfriend Jared.

Nicole Lapin (4:41)

To The president of my favorite professional.

Morgan Lavoy (4:43)

Network, Patow over email.

Nicole Lapin (4:45)

And this is what happened.

Morgan Lavoy (4:50)

And so.

Jared (4:54)

So I sent this email. Oh, my God. Okay, so Jared is saved in my phone.

Morgan Lavoy (5:06)

Oh, this is only a recent change. We were watching some comedy special. Guy's name, the British guy, and he was talking about what his baby mama, girlfriend, or whatever is saved in his phone.

Jared (5:20)

And we were watching it, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna change what you're saved in my phone as. So I save him in my phone as daddy. And when he gets the email, he's like, babe, did you know that in.

Morgan Lavoy (5:44)

The email to the CEO or whatever.

Jared (5:47)

It says to him today? I thought this was just for me. Apparently, it's not. I didn't know.

Jason Pfeiffer (6:01)

All right, we're back. How do you feel about that being heard by everybody?

Morgan Lavoy (6:08)

Are you sure we want to do this?

Jason Pfeiffer (6:10)

Yes, we have to.

Morgan Lavoy (6:12)

All right, all right. Learn from my mistakes, people.

Jason Pfeiffer (6:17)

Right. The mistake is telling your friends who you make a podcast with about anything that happens that's embarrassing because it immediately will go in the podcast. All right. You sent me a screenshot of what this email looked like because I couldn't quite picture it.

Morgan Lavoy (6:29)

So I thought it was saved in my phone, and I thought I was the only one who could see it. So when it was sent, no idea at all that the way you save it in your phone, apparently, is the way other people read it too.

Jason Pfeiffer (6:46)

Yeah, I did not know that either. This is a public service announcement for anyone who doesn't know that, because I. So just to be clear, here's the screenshot you sent me. Imagine looking at an email, Right, everyone. So first it says the subject line, which in this case is a very boring thing, that says re, colon, brand, lift, and case study. And then it says, From Nicole Abbott, 10:51am To Tracy, comma Morgan, comma, Daddy. And if you expand it underneath, it just keeps going with it. This is from Nicole Lapin. And then your. Your email address to Tracy. Her email address. Morgan. Her email address. Daddy. Just Jared's email address.

Morgan Lavoy (7:32)

Yeah. Or you can see the actual email that I said where this was all uncovered. So I was really thoughtful about this idea that this community patow that you.

Jason Pfeiffer (7:45)

Have connected Daddy to the president.

Morgan Lavoy (7:47)

Ryan has been on the show. We've talked about it a little. I am a big ad hoc ambassador. It's an important business community that I've been part of for 15 years. And I was concerned. I don't know if that's the right word. I was extra cautious and thoughtful about how I nominated because you have to nominate executives for membership into the community. How I would toe the line of this is my romantic partner and he's amazing and qualified and he should be part of it and I'm recommending him. But I'm not ignoring the fact that he's a romantic partner because that's disingenuous. But I'm saying it in a way that also shows just how much I believe in him, regardless of that. So this thoughtful email. It took me a minute to craft the right balance, so I say, Ryan, it's with great joy that I introduce you to Jared. There is no one I know that more closely embodies the ethos of planning to take on the world than him. So P. Tau stands for Plan to take on the world. He is the CEO of one of the most exciting AI companies out there, Canvas, which proprietarily measures consumer feelings and gauges emotions for the world's biggest brands. Jared's accolades are long and impressive, but.

Nicole Lapin (9:15)

None more impressive than the fact that.

Morgan Lavoy (9:17)

He lives with me and has not completely lost his mind yet. As you both know, Patel is such a special community to me. I have thought long and hard about whether this intro would be mutually beneficial to the maximum. The only answer I kept coming to was colon hell yes.

Nicole Lapin (9:35)

So with that I hope you can.

Morgan Lavoy (9:37)

Connect and discuss the beautiful shaded part of your Venn diagram while swapping embarrassing stories about me.

Nicole Lapin (9:44)

Nicole.

Morgan Lavoy (9:45)

So my goal was to be professional but also casual and connote the idea that he is important but also self deprecating. And it's like a weird situation because this is a professional and romantic thing and I don't want him to get extra special consideration because of me for some reason, which he doesn't need. So I try to write it pretty thoughtfully, thoroughly use complete sentences, which as you know, as the recipient of many of my emails do not have complete sentences. And then I sent off this email.

Jason Pfeiffer (10:26)

And Daddy, this very professional email. Yeah, it's like preparing for a big presentation and just absolutely nailing it. And then you get off stage and someone was like toilet paper. Toilet paper attached to your phone. Yeah, that's a good question.

Jared (10:42)

How did you know that's 100% what.

Morgan Lavoy (10:47)

It felt like digitally? Yeah. And so finding out that this inside very, very personal thing first went to this very important community that I care about and then now it's going to everybody.

Jason Pfeiffer (11:06)

Okay, I could just marinate in the absurdity of this all day, but to try to make an actual purpose of this outside of just that I wanted to share it with our listeners. What's the big idea here? The big idea here is that mixing personal and business relationships, particularly romantic and business relationships, can be complicated. Because why? I mean, you tell me. Because you've had to navigate this a number of times, given the number of very professional and personal connections that you've made through your dating life. So what's the balance? What's the thing that you have to walk?

Morgan Lavoy (11:42)

Oh, Jason, can it just be a funny story? Aren't there enough podcasts out there that just vomit on the mic and have no takeaway and no lesson and just two people laughing about crazy shit that happens in their lives? All right, we can dig deep. So, yeah, it's a tricky balance to strike, especially when you get together later in life. You've created rich, full careers with networks and people and texture and contours and all the yummy things of a career well had and a life well lived. I've had that. He's had that independently. And coming together with that, I think, is a little tricky for a lot of reasons. It's tricky when you also act like a child and save your romantic partner's name as daddy. So are there boundaries? So I struggled with trying to figure out where the boundary was. I have a romantic relationship, I think, for the first time in my life that feels very complete and safe and nurturing outside of work. And the shaded part of that Venn diagram is not a core tent pole of what's holding this thing up, which, frankly, it has been before. And I was very fast and loose with incorporating romantic partners in work. And as you know, work has been my life. And so that was the thing that I wanted to talk about all day, all night long. And I never really had a boundary and always wanted to be helpful to somebody else and vice versa. And so now I was trying to figure out where, if at all these boundaries are around this idea that this is a community that I care for a lot about. I have been a complete, full human. Nobody needed to complete me. This romantic relationship has been only additive to my life. Like, it's not filled me in a way that wasn't already full and complete. So how do I incorporate him into something that already feels pretty great, if at all? And there's other communities. I happen to think this is the best one. As everybody knows, they do not pay me. I still pay them, so they can pay me to say these things. They won't. But is there a boundary? Could that just be my thing and that could have been fine? Too.

Jason Pfeiffer (14:14)

I have to say, that feels like a really compelling question that I relate to. Can this just be my thing? Because when you have a partner who you share a lot with, including professional interests and ambitions, then there are going to be these overlaps. And some of those overlaps are great. But also, I think many people, as they get deeper into a relationship, they start to ask themselves, what's still just mine? What's mine and not ours? And that's been a very important part of my relationship with Jen, my wife, is we have our own things and then we have our things together. But we also do somewhat similar work that we're both in media. And so there are a lot of times where things just overlap. And what's interesting is that sometimes they overlap in a way that forces a reduction of something. I'll give you a tiny example. We have a friend named Andy. Andy's a very successful writer. And we've been meaning for Andy and her girlfriend to come over and catch up with Jen and I, who haven't seen for a long time. But at the same time, also, Andy and I had a whole bunch of work things we wanted to talk about, like newsletter strategy and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I realized, you know, if Andy and her girlfriend come over, we're not going to talk business. And I actually kind of want to. And I want to talk about stuff that Jen's not that interested in, which is newsletter strategy. So we decided to create two plans. There was week one. Andy and Julia came over and we had dinner and we talked about the things all four of us are interested in. And then literally the next week, just Andy and I got together and we talked newsletter strategy and other stuff. And that felt like a really good way to do it.

Morgan Lavoy (15:53)

Because it was intentional.

Jason Pfeiffer (15:55)

Yeah, it's intentional. You get these intersections and one doesn't subtract the other. It's not like Andy and I couldn't continue to develop the kind of worky relationship that we would have because it doesn't fit into the relationship that I would share with my wife. And so doing both felt really good and useful. And I think that that's where I want to make sure I'm always living in. I want to share as much as we can, but I also want to make sure I'm being mindful of how some things, even things I might share, can still just be mine.

Morgan Lavoy (16:30)

I love that. I mean, you wrote a book with Jen.

Nicole Lapin (16:33)

You also wrote your own book.

Morgan Lavoy (16:35)

So that's an extreme example. Yeah, right here is my book, Build for tomorrow, here is our book. Mr. Daisuke, wherever you buy your books.

Jason Pfeiffer (16:46)

Thank you for the dual book plug. Yeah, Jen and I wrote a book together, and that was a great project. But we also didn't then immediately start merging all of our work things. In fact, we use each other pretty intentionally in each other's work. For example, my newsletter. I have found that Jen is a great last sounding board before that thing goes out. So I send my newsletter out Tuesday mornings. Monday night, I read the newsletter to her, and after that, I've fussed with it all week. And now I just want her to hear it and to call out anything that doesn't work. And fortunately, she hasn't heard it and been like, this thing is terrible. You should throw it away. Because then I wouldn't have anything on Monday night. But I really like that as a process. The newsletter is mine, but we share this part of it together, which is this check in just before it goes out. I think that if you have a partner who you have some professional entanglement with, it makes it often more fun. There's more things to talk about and to do together. But you just have to know whose is what's. If that makes sense. What is whose? Stick around. Help Wanted. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it.

Morgan Lavoy (18:13)

The big question is, is Ryan laughing his ass off right now? Do I ask Ryan?

Jason Pfeiffer (18:20)

Oh, you haven't asked him?

Morgan Lavoy (18:21)

No. So from the looks of the response, he clearly knows. Has this circulated? The whole community? Is everybody laughing at me? Will I never live this down? Now in every Patel mixer and conference.

Jason Pfeiffer (18:36)

Oh, my God. Would you call him and ask him? Nicole, if you would. If you would call him and ask him. I got some questions for him. Did you think about saying something? And then also if Nicole noticed and just wrote you and gave you, what is the actual explanation? Which is. Okay, so just to be clear, I don't actually call him Daddy. It was like a joke and it was from the TV show and the whole thing. Is that worse? Does that look like you're making up a story? How do you. You clean this up? I guess is the question. Like, that's what I really want to know. How do you clean this up? And what is Ryan thinking? Can we call Ryan?

Morgan Lavoy (19:12)

Okay, let's call Ryan. Do you hear here?

Ryan (19:18)

Well, hello.

Morgan Lavoy (19:19)

Hi.

Ryan (19:20)

How are you?

Morgan Lavoy (19:21)

Good. Do you have a second?

Ryan (19:24)

Always.

Morgan Lavoy (19:25)

You're the best. I just wanted to check in and have you join Jason and Morgan and I just for a little chat. We were having about you and things and patow and we were like, let's call Ryan.

Ryan (19:41)

I'm glad to be called.

Jason Pfeiffer (19:43)

So number one, we are so glad to hear from you right now. Number two, we're going to tell you something. It's not going to be embarrassing for you. It is going to be embarrassing for Nicole.

Morgan Lavoy (19:55)

So how was your chat with Jared?

Ryan (19:59)

It was great. Why?

Morgan Lavoy (20:01)

That's awesome.

Jason Pfeiffer (20:05)

Ryan, I have a simple question for you. Ready. When Nicole sent you an email and introduced you to Jared, did you notice anything funny in that email?

Ryan (20:16)

You know, now that you asked, I may have picked up on something. How was this brought to your attention?

Jason Pfeiffer (20:31)

Well, because when Nicole noticed it, she was mortified. And then she sent me and Morgan a voice memo about it in which she could barely breathe. It was possibly the greatest couple minutes of audio I've ever heard. And our first question is, what did you think? And our second question is, what did you do next?

Ryan (20:56)

So to the first question of what did I think? I think I was like, good for Jared. You know, that's lofty standards to be entitled such, to be given such a nice title within a relationship. What I did next was I did think to myself, on a scale of 1 to the most awkward thing ever, how awkward would it be if I reached out to Nicole to let her know and had an internal debate about.

Nicole Lapin (21:25)

That for a little bit?

Morgan Lavoy (21:28)

But you did not.

Ryan (21:29)

But I did not.

Morgan Lavoy (21:33)

Does the entire Patel now know about this?

Ryan (21:37)

Of course not.

Morgan Lavoy (21:39)

You were about to say, of course. Now just everybody who listens to our show knows about it.

Ryan (21:46)

Yes. We're going to put you on the main stage and have you tell the story with screenshots and everything.

Morgan Lavoy (21:50)

By the way, it's a great psa. It is a very important career PSA for the Patel community.

Jason Pfeiffer (22:00)

The psa, Ryan, is that Nicole had absolutely no idea that the way you list someone in their phone is how they show up in the email. That was not a thing she knew.

Morgan Lavoy (22:09)

I was today years old when I discovered that when you save somebody, which is crazy because I've saved exes in the past, like asshole, do not call. I didn't put them in an email with the president of Patao or whatever. So we were watching a comedy special and the guy had his girlfriend saved as baby or something, I don't know. And then I was like, oh, we have each other saved. It's such boring things, like our actual names. And so right before he sent that email, I changed it in my phone and I just thought that that was for me. And Nobody else would see it ever.

Ryan (22:47)

So since you are recording, I just want to let the record state that I don't believe that story for a second.

Morgan Lavoy (22:53)

I can't lie, Brian. I wish, like, lying was like a good skill set of mine. I just can't. It's just impossible for me. It's true. That was the time that I figured it out. And when I said, hey, babe, like, oh, I sent this email and then he opened it and he's like, did you know that it said Daddy on it? And I said, wait, you can see that?

Ryan (23:18)

And so the best part about this is since that is how he was introduced to me when he emails me now, that is also how he comes up just on his own.

Morgan Lavoy (23:32)

I can't breathe.

Jason Pfeiffer (23:34)

I can't breathe.

Ryan (23:38)

It's a great PSA though, Brian.

Morgan Lavoy (23:40)

We'll let you go on your merry way with your very important patow duties.

Ryan (23:44)

Well, I hope you all have a lovely weekend and I'm sure we'll chat soon.

Morgan Lavoy (23:48)

If you don't chat with Daddy first.

Jason Pfeiffer (23:50)

Exactly.

Nicole Lapin (23:51)

And I guess my closing thoughts here.

Morgan Lavoy (23:53)

Are not every professional project has to.

Nicole Lapin (23:55)

Be yours, and not every professional project.

Morgan Lavoy (23:58)

Has to be shared. If you're thinking about having your romantic partner be a business partner in some way, you just need to make sure that it's mutually beneficial.

Nicole Lapin (24:07)

And.

Morgan Lavoy (24:08)

And if there is something professional that you're sharing with your romantic partner, maybe.

Nicole Lapin (24:14)

Just don't call him Daddy.

Jason Pfeiffer (24:16)

Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.

Nicole Lapin (24:21)

Pfeiffer and me, Nicole Lapin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. Do you want some help? Email our helpline@helpwantedoneynewsnetwork.com for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagramoneynews and TikTok MoneyNewsNetwork for exclusive content and our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance.

Jason Pfeiffer (24:41)

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

Nicole Lapin (24:43)

All right, well, talk to you soon. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you can save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.