How To Take Parental Leave When You're an Entrepreneur.... Or a Workaholic

Summary

Title: How To Take Parental Leave When You're an Entrepreneur.... Or a Workaholic
Podcast: Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Host/Author: Money News Network
Release Date: November 28, 2024

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Episode Summary

In this heartfelt and insightful episode of Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin, titled "How To Take Parental Leave When You're an Entrepreneur.... Or a Workaholic," Nicole delves into the often-taboo subject of taking parental leave, especially for those who identify strongly with their professional roles. Joined by co-hosts Jason Pfeiffer and Morgan Lavoy, the conversation explores the intricate balance between personal life and entrepreneurial ambitions, offering practical advice and profound personal reflections.

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Personal Reflections on Pregnancy and Leave ([02:39] - [03:52])

Nicole begins the episode by opening up about her pregnancy, sharing the emotional and logistical challenges she faces as a podcast host preparing for maternity leave. She expresses the difficulty of stepping away from her work, stating:

"I have always defined myself by work."
—Nicole Lapin ([03:14])

This candid admission sets the tone for a deep exploration of the intersection between personal identity and professional obligations.

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Navigating Parental Leave as an Entrepreneur ([03:13] - [32:06])

Jason's Struggle with Identity and Work ([07:30] - [09:35])

Jason Pfeiffer shares his internal conflict between his role as an entrepreneur and his impending fatherhood. He reflects on how his work has always been his primary focus:

"I've always felt that work is my first baby."
—Jason Pfeiffer ([07:30])

Jason discusses his attempts to find paternity leave options, only to discover the limited support available for entrepreneurs without formal leave programs.

Creating Boundaries and Separation ([11:53] - [12:08])

To manage these dual responsibilities, Jason recounts establishing a separate office space away from his home studio. This physical separation serves as a "forcing function" to delineate work from family time:

"Having that separation is going to be really important, and I think that's setting me up for more success than I would have had otherwise."
—Jason Pfeiffer ([11:10])

Impact of Parenthood on Professional Life ([12:08] - [14:12])

Morgan Lavoy highlights how parenthood can catalyze necessary changes in work habits and personal identity. She shares her own experience of structuring her time more effectively to accommodate her growing family:

"Having the kid forced me to put structures around my time in a way that I never had before."
—Morgan Lavoy ([13:56])

This structural shift leads to increased productivity and personal fulfillment, despite ongoing anxieties.

Balancing Work and Parenting ([15:16] - [26:54])

The trio discusses strategies for balancing intense work commitments with parenting duties. Key insights include:

• Redefining Personal Identity: Encouraging listeners to create a personal mission statement that transcends professional titles. Morgan advises:

  "I tell stories in my own voice is like, I can do that anywhere."
  —Morgan Lavoy ([34:13])

• Acceptance and Adaptation: Embracing the unpredictability of parenthood and allowing oneself to adapt rather than striving for an unattainable perfect balance.

Mental Health and Postpartum Concerns ([28:57] - [32:06])

Jason expresses his concerns about mental health during and after the transition to fatherhood. He emphasizes the importance of being proactive in addressing potential postpartum depression or anxiety:

"I want to try to just be mindful of how that might play out and do whatever I can prophylactically or proactively to stave off ... postpartum depression or anxiety."
—Jason Pfeiffer ([32:06])

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Practical Strategies for Taking Leave ([29:53] - [40:10])

Nicole and her co-hosts offer actionable strategies for entrepreneurs and workaholics considering parental leave:

1. Delegation and Support Networks: Utilizing services like Airbnb's Co-Host Network to manage business aspects remotely, thereby allowing more focus on family.

2. Redefining Identity Beyond Work: Creating a mission statement that aligns personal values with both professional and parental roles to maintain a coherent sense of self.

3. Physical and Mental Separation: Establishing distinct workspaces separate from living areas to prevent overlap and ensure focus on family during leave.

4. Embracing Imperfection: Accepting that perfect balance is unattainable and learning to adapt to the evolving demands of parenthood and work.

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Personal Anecdotes and Reflections ([40:10] - [49:35])

The episode features personal stories that illustrate the emotional rollercoaster of parenthood. Morgan shares her own birth experience, highlighting the unpredictable nature of childbirth and the blend of joy and chaos that comes with it:

"We're in the good old days."
—Morgan Lavoy ([25:04])

These anecdotes underscore the importance of flexibility and the ability to navigate both joyous and challenging moments.

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Conclusion and Future of Money Rehab ([49:14] - [Ending])

Nicole announces her impending maternity leave, assuring listeners that Money Rehab will continue with guest hosts stepping in during her absence. This transition emphasizes the show's commitment to providing consistent financial advice while acknowledging the personal growth Nicole is undergoing.

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Notable Quotes:

• Nicole Lapin on Work Identity:

  "I am also someone who has always defined myself by work."
  —Nicole Lapin ([03:14])

• Jason Pfeiffer on Setting Boundaries:

  "Having that separation is going to be really important, and I think that's setting me up for more success than I would have had otherwise."
  —Jason Pfeiffer ([11:10])

• Morgan Lavoy on Personal Mission Statements:

  "I tell stories in my own voice is like, I can do that anywhere."
  —Morgan Lavoy ([34:13])

• Jason Pfeiffer on Mental Health:

  "I want to try to just be mindful of how that might play out and do whatever I can prophylactically or proactively to stave off ... postpartum depression or anxiety."
  —Jason Pfeiffer ([32:06])

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Key Takeaways:

1. Redefining Identity: It's crucial to separate one’s personal identity from professional roles to maintain mental well-being during significant life changes like parenthood.

2. Establishing Boundaries: Creating physical and mental boundaries between work and personal life helps in managing both effectively.

3. Leveraging Support Systems: Utilizing services and building a support network can alleviate the burden of balancing entrepreneurship with family responsibilities.

4. Embracing Flexibility: Accepting that perfection is unattainable and being adaptable to the evolving demands of parenthood and work ensures smoother transitions.

5. Prioritizing Mental Health: Proactively addressing mental health concerns during and after the transition to parenthood is essential for overall well-being.

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This episode offers a compassionate and practical guide for entrepreneurs and workaholics contemplating parental leave. Through personal anecdotes, expert advice, and strategic insights, Nicole Lapin and her co-hosts provide valuable support for those navigating the delicate balance between building a career and nurturing a family.

Transcript

[Nicole Lapin]

I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash, but I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a Co Host Network which is a network of high quality local co hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble so I don't end up making time.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

To make my house look guest friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it.

[Nicole Lapin]

But I'm matching with a co host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co [e-mail] host one of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn [e-mail] MNN when you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $dollars with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I got from buying a seven dollar.

[Nicole Lapin]

Latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com MNN that's Chime.com MNN Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by The Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members, FDIC, SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible CHIME members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to chime.com disclosures for details. I'm Nicole Lapin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand it's time for some Money Rehab. So this pregnancy thing is no joke, you guys. I am nine months pregnant, which has felt like 900 months if you didn't.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Know I was pregnant, by the way, surprise.

[Nicole Lapin]

I did mention it in my episode with Senator Gillibrand, but other than that I've been keeping it pretty private. I have processed a lot of big life moments publicly, and this totally insane but amazing experience of growing a small human is something that I wanted to just process with me and my husband. But I do kind of need to talk about it now because my daughter could come truly any second now. Hosting a daily podcast is not so conducive to taking a maternity leave. And beyond this type of work I do, I am also someone who has always defined myself by work.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So I'm really struggling with the idea.

[Nicole Lapin]

Of taking time off in general. So today you're going to hear an episode of the podcast Help Wanted that I co host with the editor in chief of Entrepreneur magazine, Jason Pfeiffer. In this episode, I talked to Jason about how I've been trying to be open minded about taking mat leave. And and Jason gives me some advice based on his own experience taking leave after he and his wife had their two kids. But before I share that episode, I want to tell you first what Money Rehab is going to look like for.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

The next few weeks.

[Nicole Lapin]

Today and tomorrow are my last episodes of Money Rehab. For now, not forever. Because even though my daughter has not.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Been born yet, I can barely breathe.

[Nicole Lapin]

I can barely get through all of these sentences. I am so pregnant right now.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yes, these are the fun things that.

[Nicole Lapin]

Nobody tells you about pregnancy, by the way. But even though tomorrow will be my last episode of Money Rehab for a bit beat, it's not the last episode of Money Rehab. Don't worry, because while I'm out, we're actually doing something that I think you're really gonna love. The show, of course, must go on. I would not leave you Money Rehabbers hanging. And so the show is gonna be guest hosted by some of the smartest people I know, like Tracy D'Annunzio, who built and sold the luxury resale company Tradesy. Peter Tuchman, the stockbroker you know and love. Fellow Eminen podcast host who reports from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Minda Hart, who's the bestselling author of the Memo and is an expert on workplace culture. Mosh Wanunu, who's been a journalist with me for 500 years and hosts my favorite daily podcast, Mo News, which is actually joining the Eminen family. So yay. Claire Wasserman, who is an expert on pay negotiation, real estate agent extraordinaire, John Grauman, attorney, but a very cool one. Pamela Maz, AKA Law Mother on Instagram and our very own ep, Morgan Lavoy. And more. You'll hear more about that tomorrow in an episode that is all about budgeting for babies and some more sappiness. But in the meantime, here's my conversation with Jason.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Nicole, how do you feel right now?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Do. Do you want the very. The very honest answer that, like, the most unvarnished answer?

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yes.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I feel so large. I. I feel like I cannot breathe. I normally can't breathe, as you know, and we swap tips about this, but I extra can't breathe. My pelvis is on fire.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Right.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

There's a thing called lightning crouch, which you haven't experienced, but it's a real side effect of pregnancy. If you look up all the side effects of pregnancy, it looks like this crazy fucking disease.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah, well, I mean, in any other circumstance, you. You might as well say that it is a terrible disease. Like you have a thing growing inside of you. Usually a thing growing inside of you, not a thing. You want a thing. That sounds bad. You know, human life, this is how it happens. We're. We're a bunch of animals. It's really crazy. Like, going through pregnancy just shows you, like, we're not elevated in any way. We're a bunch of animals doing animal things. You are beyond nine months pregnant right now, right? Like, literally beyond it.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I am.

[Morgan Lavoy]

We were not supposed to be recording today because you were supposed to already be on maternity leave.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I know, but I don't have a baby yet.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Right. So. But just to be really, really clear, before we get into this, what we're going to talk about today is we're going to talk about stepping back and what you're feeling in this moment, because you and I, we work like crazy, and you've built this company, and now you're going to take a big old break from it, and that's scary. Yeah, you don't want to.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It's really scary.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Which is why you're here today, because. So just for Context. So everybody understands. The episodes with you and I that people hear every week are recorded every other week for us. We set aside a bunch of time, and then we record a bunch of episodes in a row. And two weeks ago was supposed to be the last one. And then we were supposed to say, bye, Nicole, have a wonderful maternity. But. And you were like, no, if I haven't had the baby, we're going to make another recording. Which is crazy, but also says a lot about how dedicated you are to your work. So how. How is it? Staring down, stepping away, like, how. How are you feeling about that?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, so aside from the acid reflux that I forgot to mention, I am feeling a lot of things. Like, my first baby has always been work. And so it's always been my main focus and my main priority. And it's funny, we had a guest on Money Rehab a few weeks ago who was like, oh, you're a mama already. Because on my Instagram bio it says like, mama of money news or something. And so I've always felt that way, like, and especially with Eminen, it's my baby. And so, like, I don't want to leave. I don't want to leave my baby for another baby. And I've never had an actual baby, so it's really weird. And, like, working for yourself and not having a formal, you know, maternity leave program, I'm curious what you engendered or how much paternity leave, if you took any, or what kind of entrepreneurial things you were doing when you were having the boys, but it's confusing. I went through a bunch of, you know, rigmarole to try and figure out if there was anything for entrepreneurs. California is kind of robust, but still, it was really hard and complicated, and then I never ended up figuring something out with it. So, you know, you're in a position where, if you're an entrepreneur who has a, you know, bootstrap startup and not a formal mat leave program, you're like, well, I. I eat what I kill. And so if I'm not killing anything because I'm. I'm trying to keep a human alive, then, like, are we eating stuff? And so it, It's. It was a lot of, you know, that concern and consideration to try and figure out, like, do I take time off? How much time do I take? I have no idea what's about to happen. So let's just, you know, work for as long as I can. But I also had a lot of anxiety around where I would be working, because until a few months ago, We. We opened Beautiful Eminence Studios, but the studio was in a room in my house. And so I.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Right. Do it. Just. Just to be. Just to be clear, the vast majority of the time, almost all the time that people have heard you, you have been on mic in a studio, which was actually just in a bedroom in your home that you had set up as a studio, and now that bedroom is taken over by a baby, so you had to go find another place to put that microphone.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I did, I did. And it was so convenient. And we had real shoots in there. We had Gary Vee coming by. We had a bunch of celebrities and cool stuff going on. And so it was in my house, but it was also so convenient. And. And, yeah, it was the only place where we could put a baby. And my husband, he is also an entrepreneur. We created, like, a shed for him basically on the roof for his office. And, you know, like, the baby can't live in a shed house. No, the baby needed the room inside, and it is currently a nursery. And now we have beautiful, actual offices with, like, real big rooms and setups and stuff. And it's awesome, and it's a huge upgrade and a huge testament to all of the work we've done in the last couple of years. But I also was trying to figure out at the time, do we get a bigger house? Like, so we were looking simultaneously at some larger homes that we could have the office in the home plus a baby room, you know, plus Jared's office, whatever.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And, you know, something about it just made me feel like I might need some separation because having baby stuff, work stuff, all in the same place felt maybe like I would, you know, be having an identity crisis in no time and not really able to step away and not really able to get back to my first baby, my first love. And so, yeah, I think it ended up working out from that perspective, and I think having that separation is going to be really important, and I think that's setting me up for more success than I would have had otherwise.

[Morgan Lavoy]

You know, what's interesting is this metaphor that you had has evolved because. So work was your first baby, and that baby had its own little nursery in the form of a studio in your home.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's right.

[Morgan Lavoy]

And then the baby had. The work baby, got kicked out for an actual baby, which is forcing the work baby to grow up and to become. To become like a work child or a work young adult. And for a while you were like, well, but maybe they can both be babies. They can both have their own little Nurseries at home. But you're thinking, no, no, no. Like this is, this is, this is actually like to have a child is in some way to accelerate or to force the evolution of the other things in your life. Which, which is exactly, for what it's worth, what I have found with me, like I am, and we've talked about this, I am so deeply frustrated by the thoughts of how much more I might have accomplished or could do or whatever that I can't because I have kids. But at the same time I have to remind myself that the time of my life in which I have had children, which has been nine years, I have a nine year old and a five year old. That time has been the time of greatest accomplishment in my life. Like I have built the most during that time. So even as I focus on like all the things that I couldn't do, I've also done the most. And, and I like, why is that? I mean, part of that is just like if you're doing life correctly, then there should always be new things and you're growing. But another part of it is that I think that just having the kid forced me to put structures around my time in a way that I never had before and to be really intentional about how I'm using my time and to drop things that I enjoyed but that just weren't as productive a use of my time. And as a result, my work has thrived. And that sounds like what you're setting up here.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I mean, you talk very honestly. We did a whole episode about this. This was how I told you I was pregnant after you bashed children for an hour.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Worth going back and listening to that episode.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, we'll link it. Yeah, that was, that was classic. You had no idea.

[Morgan Lavoy]

I had no idea. That was, that was amazing. I got a lot of emails. Did I tell you that I got a lot of, I got a lot of emails from that episode. People being really, they were, they were really grateful about how honest I was about the challenges of parenthood. In fact, I was, I was just talking with a friend who lives in Montana and I was being open about how challenging I find parenting. And she was shocked because she was like, nobody in Montana would ever say something like that. And I, and I do think it's true that in more work oriented cultures like New York, where I live, there's probably a bit more comfort with talking like that. But most like people are not comfortable talking, talking about it. But I think, I think that it's really important. Like I, you know, It'll be important for you, as you'll find out. Like, parenting will be very rewarding, but also you're going to wipe a lot of asses and you're not going to enjoy any of that. It's okay not to enjoy any of that.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Thanks, Jason. I am, I am duly prepared to have a lot of, you know, poop in my life. Thank you so much for the warning.

[Morgan Lavoy]

You're welcome.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So what did you and Jen do you or did you have thoughts or anxiety about taking time off?

[Morgan Lavoy]

So. Well, you know, if we rewind to the times in which we were having kids nine years ago and five and a half years ago, I, in both cases was fully employed. Like, you know, like today I have a W2. Yeah. Like, yeah, just a W2 employee. That. Where I drew, if not 100% of my income, 90% of my income. Like, that's not the case now. Now I still have a W2, but I also have a whole lot of entrepreneurial pursuits and like, make more outside than inside the company. But back then it was just that. So I had just a regular paternity leave of. I can't remember how much it was. It wasn't that much a couple weeks. And then my wife Jen is. She is self employed, but as a freelancer. So she's really like eating what she kills. It's just like project to project to project to project. And it was interesting. Jen had more thoughts and feelings on this and her thoughts and feelings were that for her work is this dual source of purpose and deep anxiety. And she is always thinking about, I mean, she drives, she drives a lot of value from her work and she loves her work and it's a place of passion for her. But also she's always thinking about what's coming next and will this project lead to another project? Am I at the end of my career? Like, Jen's always thinking this, right? Like, you know, she'll write a book and then it'll be like, ugh, is this the last book that I ever get to write? Is this the last article that I ever get to write? So there's a lot of anxiety. So she saw maternity leave as a opportunity to take a break from that, to just say, I have another thing to focus on, a bigger. But kind of, I don't. Weightier, I don't know, whatever. It's a more important thing. It's a actual human being. Yeah, it's an actual human being. So she was really hoping that that project of like, of taking a break and just Focusing on raising a child could eliminate some of the anxiety that she was feeling about work and just like give her a break from it. And I think that it did in the actual break, like the actual few weeks that she gave herself for quote unquote, maternity leave. It certainly did not in the long run. Like, she still has all that work anxiety even though we, we have our children. But she really loved that and I think wanted to find a moment to recalibrate from it. Me, on the other hand, honestly, what I did is that I used my paternity leave both times to just do other work projects. Like, I just, I just, I remember I was working on a podcast five and a half years ago, a solo podcast project, and I, I just, I spent basically my entire paternity leave at home when I was not helping out with the baby, just like working on that thing because I don't really know how to stop and I don't, I don't know what else I would do with my time. So.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, because babies are, are sleeping a lot. I mean, they're pooping and they're eating and their stuff. But like, you still have time.

[Morgan Lavoy]

The beginning, the very beginning is, it's the easiest time. I mean, you will like the, it's really the hardest part is sleeping because the baby will be waking you up constantly. But yeah, baby's just, baby's not doing much. It doesn't really require that much of your work. You're going to sit around and be bored. Like, I have a feeling that you will. It'll be very interesting to see what you do. Do you find other things to do, like, like Jen really committed to watching a bunch of trashy TV and just checking out and just, just enjoying being on a break, whereas I, I didn't, I, I don't know how to do that. So I just worked on something else that wasn't my work. I, I, what do you, like, I wonder what you are going to do when you just have, like, you have, you have permission to have a break right now, Nicole. You have permission to have a break?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No.

[Morgan Lavoy]

What?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I've never watched Trash gtv. I've never, not once, not ever seen a Real Housewives show or any of that stuff. I definitely don't think I would be starting now.

[Nicole Lapin]

Hold onto your wallets. Money Rehab. We'll be right back. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

San Francisco and you can't go to.

[Nicole Lapin]

Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a Co Host Network, which is a network of high quality local co hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble so I don't end up making time.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

To make my house look guest friendly. I guess that's the best way to.

[Nicole Lapin]

Put it, but I'm matching with a co host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co [e-mail] host one of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn [e-mail] MNN when you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had CHIME back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chimera. Open your account in just two [e-mail] MNN that's chime.com MNN Chime feels like Progress Banking Services and Debit card provided by The Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members FDIC SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible CHIME members enrolled in Spotme and are subject to monthly limits Terms and conditions apply. Go to chime.com disclosures for details. And now for some more money. Rehab.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I feel like I'm going to be checking in or like I'm one.

[Nicole Lapin]

I'm going to.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I don't. I can't imagine being fully checked out again. I have. I have no idea. And you know, like, especially for Jen, for. For me, we have different physical recovery to go through, and so that's definitely something to be mindful of. I don't think I could even if I wanted to, like, record a podcast like you did. Right. Yeah, I would probably be resting and I'm finding the recordings, you know, really challenging. It's just really challenging to breathe.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

All of my organs are smooshed. And so that part of it I. I've found really challenging. So I think like staying on email or staying on, you know, sort of computery projects that aren't on air would.

[Nicole Lapin]

Would make sense.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Like, I want to do that. I. I don't know how I could just be like. Okay, all right, bye, Morgan. Yeah, figure it all out.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Goodbye. Right. Can I tell you that as we were talking, I was just flashing back to this moment. This, to me was the. I don't know, maybe I've shared this with you before. I can't remember. So tell me, if not. When I think back on this moment of transition from not having children to having children and just like an awareness moment for me. I don't know. I don't know how to categorize this thing. I'll just. I'll just tell you what it is, which is that I remember nine years ago, Jen is pregnant with her first boy. And she's like you. She's just like, couldn't be more pregnant, you know, like we were. We were. Who knows, we were hours to days away from the whole thing going. And we were sitting on our living room floor and I don't know what we were doing. Maybe we were playing a game or something. I don't know what we were doing. And it occurred to me. And so what I said to her was, I said, everyone always says after having children for a long time, you sort of like, can't remember life with. Without them. Not, not like just because, like, your life is just so different. It's like, what did I do with all my time? You know, like, you sort of forget. And. And I said, I said, I said, we are. We are living right now at the very end of before times. Like the re. The rest of our life will be divided by this moment. You know, life. Life is divided by all sorts of moments. But, like, a big one is this one. And like BK before K. Yeah, it was literally this BK or Burger King. And so I was just like, we are at the end of the before times. And it's a strange. I didn't know what to do with that thought, but I liked being aware of it. You're in these seasons of life, and sometimes you only realize that you moved from one season to the next. In retrospect, I don't know if people in the Middle Ages were like, we are in the Middle Ages. You know, like, it's only later that you were like, those are the Middle Ages. But this is a moment like the good old days. Yeah, the good old days.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Like, we're in the good old days.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah. It's like, this is. This is the end of before times. And so. And so the more immediate questions are like, I don't. Will it. Will I be able to step away? Will I want to step away? I don't think I want it. Like, those are actually just the kind of hypothetical beginning questions of what it will actually mean to reorient your time and priorities. And everyone. Everyone does this differently. And my guess for you is you tell me if I'm right or wrong, but, like, my guess is that you'll probably do it a lot like, I did it like Jen did it, which is to say, like, the kids are. Are an important part of our lives, but we didn't, like, drop everything to. To have the kids replace it. And so there's this always tension about, like, where we're being pulled. And so a thing that you will need to do in a way that you kind of never did before was to just start to draw lines. And one of them was that very smart thing that you anticipated here already, which is like, if. If you were in a house where the baby was and where the work baby was, then you're getting. You're going to get, like, pulled from both of them. And so there. There needs to be separate spaces almost so that you can give each the attention that they deserve. You know, like, actually, it was interesting because when you talked about that, you talked about it really from the perspective of you're working, but then the baby needs something, so you sort of have to get drawn to the baby. But, you know, it. It. It goes the other way too, right? Which is that, like, you could be with the baby but then feel drawn to work. And so you're not, like, fully present with the kid. But if you. If you create an actual separation. Like the. Just the studio is somewhere else, then that's actually an interesting forcing function to be a little more present. And I'm not very good at being present, so why I'm not. I'm making things up right now, but I could imagine that drawing those kinds of lines could be very good for being present.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. I think it's like the mental health boundary became really clear as we were trying to figure out what the space was, how important that would be. And also, just by nature of our business, we were having guests and stuff come. Like we didn't have a baby. Like, it was just, you know, come on in.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So I think, like, having a baby and a baby nurse and stuff and, like, guests, it was just. It. It felt like my home that I had before I met my baby daddy was this bachelorette palace. And then he came, and then baby came. And so it changed my interpretation of what that space was and what it should be or, you know, how practical it would be to have it be both. And I realized really quickly that I don't think that's going to be beneficial for either of the roles that I'm trying to do. Well, to your point. Yeah. Like, when you're doing one thing and you're thinking about another thing, you're not fully present or doing that thing, you might as well be doing the other thing. And so I'm sure I'm going to feel pulled in that way. And. And like, physically, you know, I don't know, like, I'm gonna have to feed a baby. Like, I. We. We ended up finding an office that was in walking distance to the house. So that's nice, but still important separation, I think. And also, like, this identity idea, because I was, like, for a while, losing. I felt like my office. I ended up, you know, having my dog go to a friend because I was finding it really hard to run after her. She's like a little dog. And I was exhausted. And so I felt like this baby was, like, taking this, you know, space that was really important to my identity and like, my. My. My studio, my dog was gone. And, like, here I am just, like.

[Morgan Lavoy]

With leaky boobs and a baby down to the bone. Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And so I felt like I had to take control of that and to. And. And I think we did it in a. In a really impactful way. Like, we took what the studio was and we souped it up like it's a real functioning thing. It's really cool, and I'm really proud of it. And it was a forcing function. And I think it was like a net positive for the company, actually, because you, you, you.

[Morgan Lavoy]

It's going to make like some sort of weird umbilical cord cut reference here. But like, you know, because you let it, you let it separate you so close. I know it was right on it. It was almost there. And I don't, I don't know how cut the cord. I'm just going to keep going with it. So because you separated it, because you let this work baby grow up and move into its own place, now it can grow in ways that it never could have when you were treating it like a baby, I guess is totally right.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Like totally. Yeah, we could rent it out. We could do a lot of things right.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Which is a really great lesson in, in change, isn't it? I mean, it's like what this really is, is just the very beginning. It will be the first of endless. Right? This is, this is like the one from before times that will then be carried over into all the decisions. And after times where you're discovering that the forcing function of separating out parts of life or of having to be more intentional about how you're doing something because it now has to fit into a more complex life with a child, like all of that. We're as crazy making as it can be. If you think about it in a different way, those breaks are the things that allow for growth.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. If I didn't get pregnant, we would still have our, our cute little little studio in my house. I wouldn't have felt motivated to change that as quickly as I did. And when you and I were talking about it, as we were trying to think through, should we create a studio? We were looking at even bigger studio spaces, like more expensive spaces where we thought we could really rent this out and run and run a studio business. And you were like, yeah, change the.

[Nicole Lapin]

Cost center to a profit center.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Like, I'm here for it. And that was a whole other business. We ended up, you know, finding something that was really nice and not over the top where we needed to rent it out. But, like, we could if we wanted to, we could, you know, have other shows and other streams of income at some point. But doing that was never, like, top of the very, very long to do list until it had to be. And so, yeah, I really, you know, I think it worked out for the better. And at the time I was really conflicted about it. But I think overall, the way the studio boundary was forced ended up being, you know, something that we could benefit from.

[Nicole Lapin]

And also that will just set me.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Up for some postpartum good mental health. Like, I was really concerned about this identity crisis thing.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah, I want to hear more about that.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I mean, it was just. It was just like, run of the mill. Like, I really am concerned about, you know, postpartum, how I'm going to be feeling physically and mentally. And my husband's amazing. He's really, like, optimizing for mental health postpartum. And. And I think that's a really big thing. We've all seen, you know, women struggle with that. And I want to try to just be mindful of how that might play out and do whatever I can prophylactically or proactively to stave off, you know, any sort of postpartum depression or anxiety or, you know, I don't know. Whatever. Whatever happens.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you were talking about, like, identity, I was reminded of this moment, which I'll share, may be useful. So when I travel and do keynotes, I often do this thing where I walk people through an exercise to identify a mission statement for themselves. The idea being that we make this mistake of too closely tying our identities to the roles that we occupy or the tasks that we perform. You know, so it's like, if I go around and say, like, my identity is, I'm a magazine editor. Like, the problem with that is, so it's just so easily changeable, you know, like, the roles we occupy in the tasks we perform are changeable. And so if that's what our identity is, then our identity is too easily rocked. If I'm a magazine editor as an identity, then all it takes is one guy. Bill, you know, my boss at Entrepreneur magazine, like, one guy calling me and firing me to completely obliterate the identity. That's a bad place to be. So I encourage people to create a mission statement for themselves. Where it starts. It's a short sentence. It starts with I, every word carefully selected, because it is not anchored to something that's easily changeable. So it's the difference between I am a magazine editor and I tell stories in my own voice, right? And because I tell stories in my own voice is like, I can do that anywhere. You could fire me from everything, and I can still do that in any platform.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So it's like the IRA of identity. You can take it anywhere you go.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah. Nicely done. Nicely done. So I gave this little talk, as I often do, and I was at a YPO event in Chicago, and afterwards, this woman came up to me. People often come up to me afterwards and they tell me with a mission statement that they came up with. And it's usually stuff like I help teams achieve greatness or I solve the most complex problems.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

They're, they're great.

[Morgan Lavoy]

I love hearing them. But this woman says something I'd never heard before. She said that she had built a consultancy like a very successful consultancy and then she had her first child and she wanted to be very involved in the child and raising the child. So she decided to just hit pause on the consultancy, just like just pause on the business, pause all business and just stay home and raise the child. And although she is finding the act of being with her child and raising her child to be very personally rewarding, it has given her an identity crisis because she does not think of herself as a stay at home mom. That is just not how she identifies. That's not, not what she would ever say of herself even though that is very technically what she is right now. And she didn't know how to manage that or how to, how to create a coherence in that. And my mission statement thing prompted this thought. She said her mission now is I help people become the best versions of themselves because that applies to the consulting work that she was doing and it also applies to raising the child. And that was a really helpful unlock for her to see that the thing that she's doing now is consistent with the thing that she was doing before and is consistent with whatever it else that she does next. And I really loved that. And, and so I, I like offer you that as a way of thinking like you'll it, this will absolutely change some, some way in which you like understand yourself and it has to. Right. Like because you've oriented yourself so much around work and now there is, that's not to say that you won't do that in the future but like you will now have another thing to orient yourself around in some way or another. And so to bring those things into coherence in some way which I'm certainly not perfect at at all, but to aspire to I think is to give yourself an, understand like a better understanding of your identity instead of shaking your identity.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. Oh I love that. Yeah. I or like to, to educate people whether they're babies or grown ass adults. It's interesting because I tried to do some of those exercises a couple of years ago when it really wasn't looking like I was going to have kids. I'm jumping into the maternity party like at the 11th hour, you know, 59th minute. Like I'm really, you Know, elevator being like, don't smush it.

[Nicole Lapin]

Let's get in.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So, you know, I just didn't think that it was going to happen, and I really wanted to be comfortable with it. And, you know, I thought, like, realistically, my.

[Nicole Lapin]

My window was closing and I hadn't.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Found my person and all of that. And so I did some real work around, like, what is my role as a mother on this planet without human children? And so, like, I have these journals that I, you know, had tried to articulate this idea that I can feel like I'm mothering or, like, teaching people or, like, mentoring people or acting in a motherly way without having, like, actual babies. And so, you know, I tried to do that in reverse where I was like, how can I use the mother role in the work role and be okay with being a, you know, stay at home workaholic instead of being stay at home mom? So.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Oh, interesting.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So, yeah, I think I can. I can maybe smush. Smush the identity of that with this new identity, whatever that is, together. But I am really worried about, you know, how I'm going to find the time in the day because I literally had to put on my calendar on Monday. We ended up squeezing in some more recordings that I was like, must shower. So, you know, I. I don't. I don't know how am I gonna bathe another human and myself and do all the work? We're gonna find out, but I'm pretty concerned about that.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah, well, I feel like I can.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Barely take care of myself. But, yeah, you know, I don't really have a choice but to keep another human alive.

[Morgan Lavoy]

However, you know, the answer is that it just happens. You just kind of grow into it. And then also, some days you also just don't shower. That is also true. You just don't. But, you know, also, it doesn't matter because whatever. I mean, look, I really like that. That is a. That's a really cool thing I did. I didn't know that you had gone through that first exercise and that you're now almost doing it in reverse. But I think that the real answer is that like anything in life, any big important thing in life, you. You just. You don't actually. There's no way to actually plan for it. The best you can do is. Is kind of like march into it with open eyes and open ears, and then you just kind of figure it out.

[Nicole Lapin]

Hold onto your wallets. Money rehab. We'll be right back. And now for some more money rehabilitation.

[Morgan Lavoy]

People have asked me, like, for advice on, like, oh, how do you know? How do you balance this? Or how do you. And the answer is that you don't start by running. You know, you, like, start in the. Well, I was gonna say baby steps, but it's just before baby steps, before the baby can even take a step, baby. Baby poops. And you just work your way into it, and you end up working your way into. Because self discovery and you work your way into growth and like, whatever comes next is going to be awesome. Not that you were asking for my advice, is it?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Because every time we've talked about this before I was pregnant, you never said it was awesome.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Well, but here's the thing. Here's the thing is, like, okay, there's this podcast called the Longest, Shortest Time, which I think is just the best name for a parenting podcast you could have ever come up with. The thing is that I am. I am often very frustrated about, like, life as a parent, but also I have an awesome life. And I think that's the thing that I'm trying to, like, reconcile. I like everything that I. That I've built here. You know, I mean, like, I have a. I have a great marriage and I do great work, and I'm very proud of that work. And that work keeps growing and it keeps making me more money and it keeps being more satisfying. And although I am. I am often frustrated with, like, parenting stuff also. I have great kids. Like, they're great kids, and I can be annoyed at them, but also I spend time with them that I enjoy. And like, I guess that's just kind of life. Like, I think both are true. Both are true. Like, it's like all of it is true at the same time. I think is. Is the answer that that's the reason why I really hate the parenting talk that is all oriented around how great everything is. Because it's not true. Like. Like, so many things can be true at the same time. I can be really frustrated by a lot of things and then also appreciate them. And I can say that, like, this is a pain in the ass, but also that, like, the outcome is awesome. Like, all. All of it can be true. So it's more fun, frankly, to me and more cathartic to me when I have the sympathetic ear of a friend who can be like, yes, that sucks. It's more interesting to me to talk about the challenges of parenthood than to talk about the delights of parenthood. Like, I actually find talking about the delights of parenthood to be completely boring. Like, I never want to talk about it. But like that's not to say that they don't exist. You know, it's just like they're, they're mixed in with all these other things and I feel like I have to spend more time grappling with the hard stuff because that's the, that's where my, those are the knots that I have to untie. Whereas the awesome, like the awesome stuff we take for granted. Something that somebody told me at some point and I can't remember the context but with they told me, is that like just a remarkable thing that humans do is that we, we can return back to like a normal state for ourselves. Right? So like, if something is really exciting, it's exciting for a bit and then it kind of returns to whatever our normalness is. And if something's really sad, it's sad for a bit and then we return back to normal. Like we just have a good ability to do that. And, and yes, things can throw that off. And some things are like too traumatic and it's hard to get back to normal. But like, generally speaking, that's what we do. And, and I find that true for myself in basically all circumstances. If I'm really excited about something, it's great. But also like the excitement wears off pretty, pretty soon. And like even the worst things that have happened in my life, I have, I've told myself, you will return to normal. Like I, you've, I've seen it happen enough times that it will, it will come back to normal and it always does. So when things are really high, I don't have to like grapple with them. It's not like, oh, what is this highness? And what do I do with it? But like when, when, when I'm feeling frustrated, I do have to grapple with it because I, because that's when I really want to return to normal. And that's, I guess probably why I, like, if I'm, if I'm to self assess myself here. I think that's why I ended up talking a lot about like it, about parenting like that. But you know, the end result is the same, which is like you build your normal and the normal is the thing that matters. And like in a way that's kind of what we've been talking about here. This, this episode is like what is normal? And then what is the, like what is the new version of normal that you will kind of establish and always be returning to?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I mean, I don't know. I, I feel like most people talk about the negative stuff. I'm actually I've struggled to find the positive stories. I now, I mean, now I'm in like, the, you know, splash zone, I guess, of birth. And so I really want to only consume positive birth stories, not, you know, the horror stories. But it tend. I. I just tend to see on social media or, or in mainstream media. You know, nobody likes hearing somebody that's like, yeah, I had a great birth. Like, it was. It was fine. It wasn't that bad.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Oh, the actual act. The actual act of it. Yeah. We don't report stories about, like, the dog woke up and had a. Had a nice day of food and went to sleep. Yeah. Like, we report when the dog. Something terrible happened to the dog. So, you know, most people have a totally good experience and then it's just not worth talking about because it was a totally normal experience.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. And then the people that didn't hate on them too. And so nobody wants to. Yeah. Share that. So.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah. I mean, I'll tell you the call. The story with Colin was really funny, Colin being my youngest, which was that we went in, Jen went into labor, and it was the day before my dad's birthday. And so the big question was, is Colin gonna be born for or on my dad's birthday? And we were like, waiting around and waiting around and waiting around and waiting around. And, like, this baby is just not comment. And so at like 11:30pm, the nurses do like, a final check and they're like, yeah, this is going to be a tomorrow baby. And so they tell us to get some shut eye because tomorrow will be a big day. And so, like, we turn the lights off. Jen is in the birthing bed or whatever, and I go and, like, set up this terrible cot in the room. And nobody's sad for you, Jason. No, nobody's sad for me. I'm not. I did not expect anyone to be sad for me. But for whatever, throw. It was a terrible cot. And then we go like, lights out. And then truly, like five minutes later, there's beeping and then suddenly everyone's rushing into the room and they're like, this baby's coming out right now. And then what? The band. He was out. Like, it was the craziest thing.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, and then we had a baby on Roy's birthday.

[Morgan Lavoy]

No, it was like. It was like minutes before. No, like, so it ended up being the day. It was the day before he was born the day before my dad, like, by minutes. But that was fine. It was a totally great experience.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Except that really didn't want to sleep in that cot. I don't know what you were inducing.

[Morgan Lavoy]

This baby has got to come out because I got to get off of this cot.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, Jason. So what am I doing for maternity leave?

[Morgan Lavoy]

Well, what am. What are you doing? What am I doing? Well, here's.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. What are you doing? What am I. I don't know what I'm doing.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Okay, well, you're.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

We're figuring it out.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Right.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So you're going to feel comfortable with the fact that there's not, like, a clear structure. Yes, I think, like, shaming myself and being like, I must come up with, like, you know, and that should work and does work for a lot of people. And that's important advice to, like, create a clear boundary and create what the plan is and to create, like, here's the time that I'm going to be off, and here's what to do. And I think I really, you know, I thought that I should try to do that because that's what I would tell other people to do, but I don't have that. And, you know, I think that's fine. I just need to be okay with the fact that no plan is the plan right now. No clear plan.

[Morgan Lavoy]

I love that. That's great. Well, okay, on that note, let's talk about the no plan is the plan for help wanted for a moment. So you're going to disappear. Please, Please do. Because I can't handle the guilt of.

[Nicole Lapin]

Broadcasting live from broadcasting.

[Morgan Lavoy]

I mean, Jesus, given how pregnant you are, there is like, a at least 50% chance that you're going to go into labor while we're recording this episode. So you're going to disappear for some time and, you know, discover the plan and do whatever. And I am going to do the following. I'm going to be hosting a bunch of solo episodes. I'm going to bring in some guest co hosts which can't hold a candle to Nicole Lapin, but we'll try. And we're just going to stumble our way through it until. Until you're back. The. The seat. The seat remains warm. And I'm. I'll miss you. And I'm excited to.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

We'll have another co host happens here.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah, that's true. All right, you ready for it?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No. Also, I can't breathe.

[Morgan Lavoy]

All right, well, before times end now and we'll see on the other side. So this is the end.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So this is. However much more Help wanted.

[Morgan Lavoy]

This is it. This is BK Help wanted. And. And after this will be. Will be ak. You're going to be a. You're going to be a whole, a whole, say, a whole other same person.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's right. All right.

[Morgan Lavoy]

Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

All right. BK out.

[Morgan Lavoy]

All right. BK out.

[Nicole Lapin]

Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lapin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some Money Rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions money [e-mail] to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one on one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram @moneynews and TikTok at MoneyNews Network for exclusive video content.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And lastly, thank you.

[Nicole Lapin]

Seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

San Francisco and you can't go to.

[Nicole Lapin]

Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co host network, which is a network of high quality local co hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble so I don't end up making making.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Time to make my house look guest friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it.

[Nicole Lapin]

But I'm matching with a co host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co [e-mail] host.