"I Feel Behind in My Career. Help!"

Summary

Podcast Summary: "I Feel Behind in My Career. Help!" – Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin

Release Date: December 27, 2024

In this compelling episode of Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin, titled "I Feel Behind in My Career. Help!," host Nicole Lapin, alongside Jason Pfeiffer from the Money News Network, delves deep into the struggles of feeling stagnant in one’s professional life. Drawing from a heartfelt conversation on their co-hosted career advice podcast, Help Wanted, Nicole and Jason provide listeners with insightful guidance on navigating career setbacks and strategizing for future success.

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1. Introduction to the Career Conundrum

The episode opens with Nicole introducing a guest from her co-hosted show, Help Wanted, who reaches out feeling behind in his career after 20 years of varied professional experiences. This guest seeks advice on how to realign his career trajectory to achieve his financial and personal goals.

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2. Guest’s 20-Year Career Journey

[05:09] Unnamed Guest:
"I've been talking with everyone I work with now, and looking back 20 years, our paths diverged significantly. I wish I had made some different decisions to be where I am today."

The guest recounts his career path, beginning as a passionate journalist at the Gardner News. Despite early success and a deep commitment to local journalism, financial limitations—earning only $12 an hour after two decades—prompted him to shift roles.

[07:25] Unnamed Guest:
"The primary reason I left was money. I went from making $10 an hour to $12 an hour at the newspaper, and it just wasn't feasible."

Seeking better pay, he transitioned to a police dispatcher role, earning around $50,000 annually. However, the monotony of the job led him to pursue his true passion: teaching. Despite a decrease in salary to $30,000, he found fulfillment and even received a national teaching award for his innovative Fresh Start organic garden program. Yet, changes in school administration and student dynamics eventually pushed him to his current role as a paralegal, where he earns approximately $54,000 annually.

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3. Personal Struggles Influencing Career Choices

A pivotal part of the guest’s story involves personal hardships that significantly impacted his career decisions.

[14:23] Unnamed Guest:
"My dad passed away when I was 20, and my stepmother kicked me out of the house while I was still in college. I had no safety net, so I needed a job to survive."

Both Nicole and Jason empathize, sharing their similar backgrounds of losing parents early in life, which instilled a deep-seated need for financial stability and cautious career moves.

[15:05] Jason Pfeiffer:
"I grew up without a safety net, so I had to optimize for money out of necessity. It's not about being a sellout; it's a need to have."

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4. Hosts’ Empathy and Shared Experiences

[16:30] Unnamed Guest:
"I want to make $100,000 a year. I'm happy with my job except for the money."

Jason and Sean (another co-host) resonate with the guest's feelings of insecurity and the constant pursuit of higher earnings. They discuss the psychological barriers that prevent individuals from fully assessing their career situations and making informed decisions.

[18:04] Jason Pfeiffer:
"You're judging yourself by metrics you didn't even know at the time. That's not fair to you."

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5. Strategic Advice for Career Advancement

The conversation shifts towards actionable strategies to help the guest achieve his financial goals without undergoing another drastic career change.

[21:52] Jason Pfeiffer:
"Make a shaded part of a Venn diagram: What do you do? What can you do? What are your skills? What are the opportunities? What do you want? Find where they overlap."

[24:54] Sean:
"The average millionaire has seven streams of income. It's not just about your paycheck. Multiple income streams can significantly boost your earnings."

The hosts recommend leveraging existing skills—such as communication and teaching—to add value to his current role. Suggestions include:

• Developing Training Programs: Creating workshops to enhance communication within the law firm.

  [26:07] Unnamed Guest:
  "I could present my products like how to write like a human or develop templates explaining legal processes."

• Freelancing: Exploring platforms like Fiverr and Upwork to offer specialized services that complement his paralegal work.

• Creating Valuable Content: Writing articles or creating courses that address common communication challenges in the legal field.

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6. Embracing Multiple Income Streams

Jason emphasizes the importance of diversifying income sources to build financial resilience and reach higher earnings.

[28:32] Jason Pfeiffer:
"People who have money don't make it from their paychecks alone. There are multiple streams of income—passive, investment, freelance—to build substantial wealth."

Sean shares his own experience of freelancing alongside full-time jobs, highlighting how it provided extra income and opened doors to new opportunities.

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7. Concluding Insights and Encouragement

The episode wraps up with a positive reinforcement of the guest’s potential to achieve his goals by strategically utilizing his skills and exploring new income avenues.

[29:18] Sean:
"Helping solve problems for others can position you as an invaluable asset, leading to better-paying opportunities."

[29:46] Unnamed Guest:
"I appreciate it. You guys helped me see things differently."

Nicole and Jason conclude by encouraging listeners to introspectively assess their skills and passions to craft a fulfilling and financially rewarding career path.

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Key Takeaways

• Assess and Align: Regularly evaluate your career path to ensure it aligns with your financial and personal goals.

• Leverage Skills: Utilize existing skills in innovative ways to add value to your current role or explore freelance opportunities.

• Diversify Income: Multiple streams of income can significantly enhance financial stability and growth.

• Overcome Psychological Barriers: Address internal fears and insecurities that hinder informed career decisions.

• Continuous Learning: Stay adaptable and open to learning new skills that can bridge gaps between your current position and desired future.

This episode serves as a poignant reminder that feeling behind in one’s career is a common experience, but with strategic planning, leveraging existing strengths, and embracing new opportunities, it’s possible to realign one's professional journey towards greater fulfillment and financial success.

Transcript

[Nicole Lapin]

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[Jason Pfeiffer]

San Francisco and you can't go to.

[Nicole Lapin]

Maine every time you need to change.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Sheets for your guests or something like that.

[Nicole Lapin]

If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a Co Host Network which is a network of high quality local co hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble so I don't end up making time.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

To make my house look guest friendly.

[Nicole Lapin]

I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co [e-mail] host.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You know, there was this one time.

[Nicole Lapin]

Before I did my own money rehab when I checked my credit score and I realized I had no idea what it actually meant for my financial future. That's when it hit me. It was time to get serious about my money. We've all had that moment, right? Whether it's saving for something big or finally paying off debt, we all get to a point where we need to make some real money moves. That's where Chime comes in. Chime offers a checking account designed to help you take control of your finances with no monthly fees, no maintenance fees, and fee free overdraft up to $200. With SpotMe, imagine overdrafting and not having to worry about fees piling up. Chime's got you covered. Plus, Chime isn't just a financial tool, it's a community. You can get boosts from friends to temporarily increase your Spot Me limit. And when you help someone out with their own boost, they can return the favor. Friends helping friends make progress. It's that simple. So why not make your fall finances a little greener? Open your Chime account in just two [e-mail] MNN that's chime.com as in money News Network. Chime feels like Progress Banking Services and debit card provided by the Bancorp NA or Stride Bank NA members. FDIC Spot Me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible CHIME members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to chime.com disclosures for details. I'm Nicole Lapin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand it's time for some Money Rehab. As you probably know, I also co host a career advice podcast with the Entrepreneur Magazine Editor in chief Jason Pfeiffer called Help Wanted. This week, while I'm out on mat leave, I'm sharing some of the episodes of Help Wanted that I think will be especially valuable for you. My dear money rehabbers, this episode is all about what to do when you feel stuck in your career and it starts starts with someone from Jason's past. Here's the episode.

[Sean]

This is Help Wanted, the show that tackles all the big work questions you cannot ask anyone else. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, Editor in chief of.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Entrepreneur Magazine, and I'm New York Times.

[Nicole Lapin]

Bestselling author and money expert Nicole Lapin.

[Sean]

The helpline is open. Nicole, do you stalk any of your former colleagues?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Like stock stock?

[Sean]

Not in a illegal way, but you know, you pay attention to them on social. They don't know that you know what they've been up to for the last 20 years.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I mean, not like in a weird way. I also try to limit social media time and I do generally think comparison is the thief of joy. But yeah, for sure. Especially when you feel like you're in shitty places. Then I go like check on my ex boyfriends and they're like wives. We've all gone in the rabbit holes of people from yestery.

[Sean]

Yeah. And I think that what you just said there, the comparison is the Thief of Joy is perfect because that's exactly what can happen, is that here you are, you were at the same moment in time as someone else and then paths diverged and it's so easy to look at what they did and maybe think, oh, did I make the wrong step?

[Nicole Lapin]

Like sliding doors, vibes, career sliding doors.

[Sean]

And that is exactly what we're going to hear today because I got an email recently from a guy that I worked with at my first job 20 years ago who I have not talked to since. And we're about to talk to him because he feels like he wishes he made some of the decisions that I made.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Little does he know you don't wish you made some of the decisions you made.

[Sean]

Yeah, I don't think we're going to get into that, but let's hear from him. Sean, here's a thing I wouldn't have said 20 years ago because it didn't exist 20 years ago. I don't think podcasting existed 20 years ago. Welcome to Help Wanted.

[Unnamed Guest]

Thank you, Jason. I've been talking to everybody I work with now, like, how I'm going to be talking with a guy today. And 20 years ago, we were like, almost in the exact same position. We had both graduated from college. We're both starting our new career in the field of journalism at a small town newspaper. But things have definitely taken different paths for us. How did we end up in such different ways? And that's not to say your way is much better than my way or that I'm unsuccessful, but there are things that I wish maybe I would have done differently. So my question is now, how could I catch up? I haven't made the best career decisions in the past, and some other things have happened that have kind of made it so that I'm not where I want to be as far as my career goes.

[Sean]

I really appreciate you reaching out and being that honest and vulnerable. And I think that what you're describing is something that a lot of people relate to. So you had originally reached out to me with a kind of summary of what had happened over the last 20 years. So why don't you share that with us so that we understand what you mean by you hadn't always made the best career decisions and where you are now so that we can start to talk through what matters to you and what to do next.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And also, if you have any embarrassing stories about Jason along the way, please feel free to insert those.

[Unnamed Guest]

So if we go to the Wayback Machine, to the Gardner News. Twenty years ago, Jason and I were both young reporters. I felt pretty successful there. If you've had to pick the ace of the staff at the time, it was me over Jason.

[Sean]

I agree.

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh, I covered City hall in our main city. I wrote massive amounts of stories. Jason already had big eyes back then. This was his stepping stone for sure. For me, it was my hometown newspaper. I always kind of feel a connection with my employers. Like, I'm very loyal in that way. And I had, like, this idealistic view of local journalism and the battle we're fighting and the public service that we're providing. I was happy to be a local news reporter because it was so important.

[Sean]

You were at the paper. You were very committed to it. At some point, you must have made a decision to leave because of some reason. Tell us, why did you leave and what did you decide to do next?

[Unnamed Guest]

The primary reason was money. When I started at the newspaper, I think I made $10 an hour. This is 20 years ago. When I left, I think I was making $12 an hour. And it just. It wasn't feasible. So like I said, I had a lot of relationships in the community from being a reporter. And one of those was at the police department, and they had openings for police dispatcher. And to me at the time, the pay, I think it was like 40,000, which was significantly more than what I was making, you know, And I liked the people there. I had a good relationship. I'm like, okay, I will do that. So I took that position. I worked overtime. You know, I think I made $50,000 a year. To me, at that time, it was good money.

[Sean]

Yeah. You know, it's funny, Sean, just for what it's worth is that if we're tracking the two careers, I remember making $20,000 in that first job that you and I worked at together. And then my next job paid $40,000. So if you were getting 50, then your next career move was more financially savvy in a way than mine.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah. So I get the job at the police department. I immediately know I'm not doing this for the rest of my life. It was very monotonous. My favorite part of my job is I got to be an advisor for the Explorers program, which was a program that taught law to local high school kids. I really like working with kids, and I said, I should be a teacher. In Massachusetts, you don't have to have a teaching degree. You just have to pass the test. There's two tests you have to take. I passed both of them, and I had my teaching license. I had a hard time finding a job for a while, and eventually I found a non traditional school. My salary is $30,000 a year. I went backwards, but I'm like, that's okay. I'm a teacher now. It will work itself out. I start to find a lot of success at my job. A few years in, I get nominated for an award, a national teaching award. I created an organic garden for my students. We called it the Fresh Start organic garden. It's amazing. And then the school was sold to another organization. The culture definitely changed. Fast forward three years, and I can't really do it anymore. Like, the kids have changed. And a former boss of mine is a principal at a public school, and they had no opening, and I applied for that job, and I got it. The salary at that position was $63,000 a year.

[Sean]

I'll just fill in because I know what happens next. Because you told me, which is that you end up leaving teaching, and then you became a paralegal. And you told me in your message to me that you were disappointed when, after studying to be a paralegal and getting a job as a paralegal, that it wasn't paying as much as you had hoped that it would. Right. So that. That's the moment that you're in right now, is that you've made a shift, got into the arena, and then discovered that there wasn't as much money as there as you wanted. Just to put a fine point on it, right now you said you're making $26 an hour, which I think translates to an annual salary of about $54,000 a year. Is that right?

[Unnamed Guest]

Yes.

[Sean]

When you told me that you were a paralegal and that's what you were making, I went onto Google and I just Googled average paralegal salary in Massachusetts. The first thing that came up told me that the average paralegal salary in Massachusetts, where You Live, is $58,000, which is not that far off from what you're making. Had you done any of that kind of research to know what you were getting into before you did it?

[Unnamed Guest]

Not really. So this is my research is. I talked to an uncle that I have when my career change was happening. He's actually. He's very smart. And he said, you know, what do you like doing? And we talked about things I like doing. He goes, have you ever thought about being a paralegal? He says, I think they make like, $75,000 a year. And me, I said, well, he's very smart. He knows what he's talking about.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, but, Sean, you're very smart, too, and you are a journalist, and you know how to use Google.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Is there, like, maybe some mental disconnect, or is it like that you don't want to really know.

[Unnamed Guest]

In my mind, I always kind of find ways to justify, like, well, if they're doing the average paralegal in Massachusetts and they're including Boston, and Boston's rates are going to be much higher than the rates in Worcester or the rates in Gardner, that's fine. I'm not going to drive to Boston to be a paralegal because I'd be spending so much money on the commute, and my quality of life would be less. Maybe I have a hard Time thinking, like, if I look that up, is it going to be accurate for me, maybe.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

But that's also, like, you know, people that don't step on a scale because they don't want to know. Like, also, maybe the scale is messed up. Maybe it's on a slant or maybe.

[Nicole Lapin]

It'S like a weird scale, or maybe.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It'S a digital scale or, I don't know, maybe it's like, that's not the real number or something like that. And so I think some of this stuff is just, like, the enemy between your ears or like, maybe something that's keeping you from actually knowing the truth. And I'd love to figure out what that is.

[Unnamed Guest]

Part of the reason maybe that I hold on to jobs is maybe some of that fear as well. Like, I definitely could have left my job at the private nonprofit school many years before I did. And I think part of it was maybe it was insecurity about, well, I didn't go to school for teaching. Am I going to be able to go to another school and be okay?

[Sean]

I wonder if part of the reason that you're doing this in the way that you're doing it is because of the fear of not having a plan and therefore feeling lost. Because what you have told us throughout this story of being a journalist and then being a police dispatcher and then being a teacher and then being a paralegal is that it sounds like what you did was you felt like you needed something else, something presented itself, and then you just ran towards it. Which is totally understandable because the alternative is to say, oh, no, I don't know what to do. And then spend a lot of time thinking about it and researching it and talking to people and marinating in this lostness of not knowing where to go. And that is a hard place to be. An easier place to be is to say, ah, I'll go over there. And then, of course, the problem is that you discover what you didn't know when you're already there instead of before you went there. Does that resonate?

[Unnamed Guest]

It absolutely does. Because I can even tell you, Jason, I went to school for one year to get my paralegal certificate because I had the opportunity to do so, applied for jobs as soon as I finished, and I took my second job offer. And I did that because. Because I'm scared. Like, I need to get a job. And if we go way back, Jason, we talk about how our past diverged. I don't want to make a pity party for me, but I think our backgrounds are pretty different as well. I don't know your full background, but I know that your parents seem to be okay. I think. Remember, your dad is a dentist. Again, I don't want to.

[Sean]

No, it's a good memory. Yeah. I think that this is an important thing that you bring up that I know Nicole can speak very intelligently to. So say what you're saying, because you're right.

[Unnamed Guest]

So my dad passed away when I was 20 years old, and my mom wasn't in my life. So I was in college when my father passed away. My stepmother basically kicked me out of my house while I was still in college. Like, I came home one weekend from college, and she goes, your stuff's packed up. I don't know what you're doing, but you can't stay here. I was in a situation where I needed to have a job. I needed to know what was going on because I didn't have a safety net where if I went a significant amount of time without working, that I would feel like I'd be surviving. But I think that's a big thing. Like, Jason, you maybe had more of an opportunity when we were starting out back then. Like, hey, if I take a chance and something doesn't work out, I'm going to be okay.

[Sean]

You are absolutely correct in that I grew up with two very supportive parents. My dad was a dentist, made good money. They did not roll out the red carpet for me on everything. But I knew that I could take risks in my career and if something didn't work out, that I had a safety debt that without question enabled me to act bolder than I know some other people were able to. So Nicole knows exactly where Sean is coming from.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Let's connect on this. I would love to be adopted by Roy Pfeiffer as the Pfeiffer clan. They are a fantastic family. I also didn't have that. My father died of an overdose when I was 11. My mother peaced out like I had no safety net. I resonate with this story a lot. I felt like I never had a couch to go back to. There was no plan B. There was no option. There still isn't, you know, and it still drives me and scares me. And so for me, the way I've approached it is that I have actually optimized more for money because I've had to. And I've tried to go in saying that that is not a sellout with which is another episode of ours situation, but it's something that I need to get. It's not a nice to Have, It's a need to have. And so I'm wondering, like, if we, you and I kind of had a similar start in life, I would say, is that fair?

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And I also started in journalism and quickly realized that you can't make money there. But beyond that, I think that the next moves were driven by the necessity to take care of myself. So I'm curious, when you started talking with others, did you ever just sit with yourself and say, what did you want to do?

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not afraid to follow the things that I want to do. So actually when I started in college, I was a business major and I started working at the college newspaper, like in the business office, and they wanted to start a business page. And I said, I'll do it, even though I didn't study journalism and I really liked it. And then so I added journalism as my second major and I was actually still in college when I pretty much started working full time at the Gardner News. I was a correspondent, but I was doing four or five stories a week while I was still in school. I'm also very much like, I see something new that I like and I'm all about it, but I can easily get burned out. Things catch my eye and it's like, well, I want to do that now. That's also hurt me in my career because I think about, I don't want to get sidetracked, but my wife, who I love dearly, she did not go to college, but she's bright. She got a job at a corporation when she was 20 years old. She's worked at that corporation since then. She's a mid level manager now and she makes like $70,000 a year. And it only happened because she stuck with it.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I think that you are looking back at yourself somehow beating yourself up, which you shouldn't at all. You've had a very colored career that every step of the way sounds like you were really passionate about. So you're judging yourself by something you didn't optimize for at the time. So you're being too hard on yourself for that. Like throughout your career, it sounds like you didn't optimize for money. Right. But now you're looking back and you're saying, well, like, I wasn't successful because I didn't make a lot of money. But that wasn't the driving force of your moves.

[Unnamed Guest]

That's true.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You're judging yourself for metrics you didn't even know at the time. That's not fair to Sean.

[Nicole Lapin]

Let's Be nicer to Sean.

[Unnamed Guest]

Even now, like, I'm super proud of my current position. Like, so, Jason, we talked about how I told you I make $26 an hour now. I started here less than three years ago, and I started at $19 an hour.

[Sean]

Hmm. It's great progress as we're eventually going to talk about how to think through what may be your next career change and what you want to do. Do you have a number in your head of what you want to reach? Because, Sean, I will tell you, Nicole and I both experienced this and continue to experience it, which is that no matter what your accomplishment is and no matter how much money you make, it suddenly does not seem like enough because there's always more that you could get. So at some point, you have to know what you're actually aiming for. Do you have that in your head?

[Unnamed Guest]

I think I like to make, like, a hundred thousand dollars a year.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Okay.

[Unnamed Guest]

I'm happy with everything about my job except money.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You've now switched, and you said, here's my goal. It's a hundred thousand dollars. Your goal in the past, when you were coming up in your career in your 20s, was not that you didn't have that goal. And so now you're switching. So let's say, okay, let's appreciate our former self for what he did. He did an awesome job. He did the best he could with the information he had. And now moving forward, we have, like, a different goal.

[Sean]

The point that Nicole is making is that you can't tell this negative story of yourself where the punchline of it is, and now you're stuck, or now you've wasted so much time. Rather, everything that you did served some kind of purpose. You were pursuing passions. You were interested in things. You learned a lot about what you want and what you don't want, and it now informs the next decisions that you make. The question now is, starting from right now, what do we do? Stick around. Help Wanted. We'll be right back.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Me again.

[Nicole Lapin]

If you're enjoying this episode of Help Wanted, please subscribe. Search for it wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

[Sean]

Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it now. I want to think through how you make more money. When you reached out, part of your wonder was, is it time to just make another career change? Just do something totally different again? And look, maybe it is if you want to totally just optimize for money. But also before you do that, I would want to step back and say, all right, what do I have here in the world? Of paralegal. Can I look around and see what other paralegals are making and where and what it takes to get there? Maybe some sacrifices do have to be made. You, for example, said that you don't want to drive into Boston, but maybe if you start pushing yourself closer to Boston and taking a longer commute, it translates into more dollars and ultimately the balance there is better. Or maybe some of the skills that you've picked up in paralegal work actually translate really well to some adjacent field that doesn't require a full reboot of what you do, but that ultimately does pay better or gives you access to better paying employers or something like that. So have you looked into any of that?

[Unnamed Guest]

I have not.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I mean, I find it very helpful to make a shaded part of a Venn diagram, like what do you do? What can you do? What are the skills you have, what are the opportunities have and what do you want? And there's always going to be a shaded part. And if now what you want is money, what are the high paying things that combine your skills? Is it teaching other paralegals? Is it making a class or writing about it or something like, can you smush all of the things you have for the highest salary possible? Have you thought of that?

[Unnamed Guest]

No. So thank you.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You're welcome. Let's think about it.

[Sean]

Nicole makes an excellent point. You know how to do a lot of different things. The story of your career is actually one of accumulating a lot of skill sets. And you haven't actually stepped back and said, how do these things snap together in a way in which they're all useful?

[Unnamed Guest]

Perhaps that's something I should be doing.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Let's snap it together.

[Unnamed Guest]

I love writing. I like teaching. I do like imparting my knowledge on others. And I don't know if that's different than teaching. I don't want to get into semantics. It's different than teaching children. I think teaching adults is a different thing, especially if they have the desire to learn. Maybe I've always not wondered, are people gonna want to hear what I have to say? Would they value what I have to teach them? I guess is the question. Again, this goes back to not sticking at things for very long. I can't say. Sean has been a paralegal for 20 plus years. Come learn from him.

[Sean]

Sean, here's something that I think you should do. You should look around and see what problems you can solve for people. Perhaps part of the reasons that you feel insecure is because if you don't know the problems that you can solve for people, then all you're doing is showing up and demanding their attention. And you don't know if they're busy or if they have a need or why they would care about you. But if you know the problems that you can solve, then suddenly you see a role for yourself. So what would a problem be that you can solve? I don't know that much about the legal world, but I do know this because I've heard it from friends who are lawyers or who work in law firms that lawyers do not know how to write in a way that is not a complicated legal brief. They struggle with communication. And communicating in a way that is not a legal brief is an important thing that people need to know how to do. And that includes lawyers. And that's the reason why a lot of law firms actually hire outside consultants to teach their lawyers how to write like regular human beings. Now here is you, someone who has worked professionally as a communicator in a plain English kind of way, who also has developed the skills of a teacher to teach skills to other people. And you are sitting in a law firm or you're at least sitting in an industry. I can't speak to your specific firm. These are people who are probably very aware that a shortcoming of theirs is their ability to communicate in a non legal way. Now we have identified a problem and you as a solution. And it might be worth even just volunteering or coming up with some kind of system or something that you can introduce at your firm, see if people like it. Maybe you become much more valuable there. Maybe you take on a totally different role there, maybe you create a whole department there. Or maybe you become really valuable in a way that they love but aren't going to pay you for. But now you have something that you can take somewhere else and say, ah, I am doubly valuable. I'm a really good paralegal and also I run this program teaching the lawyers how to write. And now somebody is going to pay you a lot more. That is how you take somebody's problem and connect it to the snapping together of the skills that you have accrued.

[Unnamed Guest]

I really like that idea. The law firm here is part of an organization that does like seminars and things for lawyers. And during the seminars they always have people that present their products and things like that. And I could picture myself presenting my products like how to write like a human.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yes.

[Unnamed Guest]

How to communicate effectively with your clients, you know, or even developing templates that explain processes, you know, like you're getting divorced. Here's what to expect.

[Nicole Lapin]

Totally.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And by the way, one of my favorite online shopping sites these days is Fiverr and Upwork. I love these marketplaces where I can find a bunch of really easy freelancers who can do things for our business. And as I was looking for writers on there, actually I saw a lot of offerings for freelance writers who were specializing either in business or in who could write these articles that I've actually stumbled upon recently because I've been searching like how to make a convertible note for an LLC or something like that. And so all these like random law firms in like Wisconsin or wherever, like have an article explaining this and I can guarantee you the people at that Wisconsin law firm are not writing it. I'm sure they outsource that to some writer on Fiverr, like you could be who has a particular expertise in some area. And they're now using that to put on their website to optimize for SEO and all this other fun stuff to get customer acquisition.

[Unnamed Guest]

Theoretically I could do that while still being committed to my current job. It's something that you can start and then see how it goes. And maybe it turns out that it's wildly successful and I don't need to be a paralegal, but maybe it doesn't and it just means it's a way that I can get to that number that I need to be at.

[Sean]

You haven't quite figured out how to make the boundaries of what you think work are more flexible. I realized that getting ahead and making the kind of money that I wanted required doing multiple kinds of work at the same time. The Gardener News was the only job, that first job that we worked at, the only job I ever worked at where I just did that job after that, I have always, including right now, freelanced on the side of whatever full time job that I had. Always. And that was where my extra income came from. And that's where my advancement opportunities came from. Because that's what got me in front of the next set of people that were going to create the next set of opportunities.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Do you know how many streams of income the average millionaire has, Sean?

[Unnamed Guest]

I do not.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It's seven. People who have money don't make money from their paychecks. There are a lot of streams of income for people who have a lot of money now. Some of it can be passive income, some of it can be investment income, some of it can be freelance income, all sorts of different kinds of income to cobble together to make a lot of money. Because very rarely do rich people make their money from like a W2.

[Sean]

And that is available to you.

[Unnamed Guest]

I really appreciate you guys today because I was thinking I was coming here and you guys would be like, sean, don't you know that the hot new field is this? And maybe you could pursue a job in that. You can't just say to somebody like, oh, just go get a better job. Like that's not really a valid thing. You got to look at things differently. You guys definitely helped me do that.

[Sean]

And the reason we got to where we are here today is because in all of these cases, the answer doesn't start externally. It's not just about make this one other decision. It's internal. The work has to start internally. Which is why what we did is we spent a lot of time trying to understand what you're goals were and what your skills are and where your interests are and then what matters to you. Because once you know that, you can start to construct an actual answer.

[Unnamed Guest]

I appreciate it.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And I would just say if you are looking for some hot new thing which probably is like AI related, right? And you tell us like, I'm obsessed with AI, My wife and I just play with chat GPT all weekend long. I don't know.

[Nicole Lapin]

Then.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Then cool. Like, let's also dig into that. That doesn't sound like you're saying that. It sounds like you're saying, I've loved all of the done right, and now I just want to figure out how to smush them together and make some money.

[Unnamed Guest]

That's exactly it.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Are we going to sign up for Fiverr tonight? Maybe I'll hire you.

[Unnamed Guest]

I've never heard of it, so I have to go.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Look what fiverr.com F I V E R R and upwork. Okay, let's end with an embarrassing story about Jason.

[Unnamed Guest]

So, Jason, I heard an episode a couple weeks ago and you're talking about, you know, the way you got started was coming up with basically inventing memes and you talked about your Twitter. The Twitter thing, selfies at funerals and stuff like that. But yeah, if we go way back. What I remember you getting your start with was scamming the scammers and your original website way long ago. The thing that drew me to your creativity was this month long conversation you had with a man from Nigeria.

[Sean]

Oh yeah.

[Unnamed Guest]

About his sister and how you couldn't wait to get pictures of her. And like you were so thankful that he was gonna give you his sister as a bride.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Unnamed Guest]

You had this thing on your webpage and it was like 50 pages long back and forth with this guy from Nigeria. And you were proud of this. Like, you had. This was a primary thing on your website.

[Sean]

I was very proud of it. They're called 419 scams. Those Nigerian 419 scams where somebody emails you and they tell you that there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and all you need to do is help them get there. Their whole thing is to scam you into trusting them so that you will send them money. But this means that this asshole, wherever they are in the world, is also, if you know that they're scamming you, is really now your plaything. Because you can just create increasingly ridiculous and complicated demands of them. And they'll. They'll play along because they think that they're leading you to the scam. And so that's what I did with this guy for who knows how long. He promised me his sister. He sent me some photos of a.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Woman who does Jen know about, May.

[Sean]

Or may not be his sister. Does not. But I'm not still in touch with the sister. Let's just be very clear. Yeah. And then I put it all on the Internet and it was a lot of fun. And you're probably the only person in the world who still remembers it, but I am touched that you do.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Now everyone knows about it.

[Sean]

Yeah. But you know what? I didn't make a single dime off of that thing. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.

[Nicole Lapin]

Pfeiffer and me, Nicole Lapman. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Do you want some help?

[Nicole Lapin]

Email our [e-mail] for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagramoneynews and TikTokoneyNewsNetwork.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

For exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance.

[Sean]

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

[Nicole Lapin]

All right, well, talk to you soon.

[Sean]

SA.

[Nicole Lapin]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.