← Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"I Keep Hearing ‘No’—How Do I Pivot Careers Without Giving Up? Coach Me!" with Claire Wasserman
00:42:17
Loading summary
Transcript54 lines
- [00:00]
Claire Wasserman
Nerds.
- [00:01]
Nicole Lapin
Hey guys, if you're anything like me, you've got a lot on your plate this new year. You've got college reunions to plan, what feels like 100 destination weddings to book travel for, and a gym membership that just needs to be used like once or twice. Good thing our sponsor, NerdWallet is here to take one thing off your plate. Finding the best financial products. Introducing NerdWallet's 2025 Best of Awards list. You'll your shortcut to the best credit cards, savings accounts, and more. The nerds have done the work for you, researching and reviewing over 1,100 financial products to bring you only the best of the best. Looking for a lower rate on your auto insurance? They've got a winner for that. Or a balance transfer credit card with 0% APR? They've got a winner for that too. Know you're getting the best products for you without doing all that research yourself.
- [00:53]
Katie
So.
- [00:53]
Nicole Lapin
So let NerdWallet do the heavy lifting for your finances this year and head over to their 2025 Best of Awards at NerdWallet.com awards to find the best financial products today.
- [01:05]
Morgan Lavoie
I'm Nicole Lapin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand it's time for some money. Reh.
- [01:20]
Claire Wasserman
Hi, I'm Claire Wasserman, the founder and author of Ladies Get Paid, a coaching practice newsletter and podcast dedicated to helping women embrace their worth inside and out. I'm so honored to be guest hosting for Nicole while she's out on maternity leave. Although a bit of a heads up that my hosting it's slightly different because instead of interviewing my guests, I'm actually coaching them. They'll be calling in cameras off just to protect their identity so that they feel as comfortable as possible to share. That's being because I believe that transparency is transformative and when you can see yourself in someone else's journey, you realize that you're just a little less alone. So today's guest is Katie, who wants to pivot from being a nurse to going into the tech healthcare field. But she's feeling really demoralized because even though she's getting past a couple of rounds of interviews, they keep telling her that they're going with candidates that have, quote, more traditional experience. I know how that feels, so I give her tips on how to tell her story in a more compelling way, that her skills really are transferable and that the learning curve will be minimal. I also talked to her about how she can kind of broaden the field of where she's applying to how to be more creative and more strategic in doing research on what companies are out there. This is really good for somebody who maybe is considering a career pivot or someone who's in the throes of the job search and is just getting demoralized. Don't worry, I got you. Hey Katie, thanks so much for joining us today on the podcast. If you can give me some more context to what you're going through and how I can best support you. Let's get started.
- [03:02]
Katie
Of course. So my name is Katie and I'm a nurse and I've been working as a nurse manager for the past nine years or so. And I've mostly worked in healthcare, obviously, because it's the most easy profession and field to get into with a background as a nurse. But I'd really love to move into more of a tech role in, like, healthcare tech companies. I feel like there's such a boom right now with people really trying to creatively solve problems in wonderful ways with telehealth or with new and unique offerings. And I'd really love to move into more like project or product management with tech roles or in the tech field. And I'm just not totally sure how to do that. So for some additional background, I have interviewed with a couple of companies in the city that I live in and I make it to the hiring manager round and I hear them saying in the interviews like, oh, I can see that your experience leading a team is relevant to this, but you don't have experience using this technology or you don't have experience actually leading a product team, but you have experience with this kind of team or you have different experience with project management but no formal title. And I guess I would love some, some guidance on the right way forward because I have a master's. I have the experience on my resume that I have and like how to present that in the best light so that people are willing to take a chance on me since I'm a more untraditional candidate frequently applying to these jobs.
- [04:40]
Claire Wasserman
I wanted to have you on the show because I think a lot of people out there are itching to pivot but have a lot of questions about am I going to have to take a pay cut? And also can I even get the job in the first place? So how do I demonstrate in a compelling that my skills really are transferable even if I haven't had the traditional experience or title? And yeah, it can be a little complicated. So I'm going to do my best to unravel and give you action steps. So the first thing is congratulations on the bravery required to do something different. So I hope that you're feeling proud and can maintain some of that pride as you go through this process. I know it's demoralizing to be rejected, but as long as you are learning, building, growing, doing, feeling, trying, and breaking it down into actionable, reasonable steps for yourself, to hold on to that as best as you can throughout this process, sustaining your energy is everything in this. Okay, so we've got that. The people who are going to hire you are the ones that you've convinced effectively, two things. Number one, that your learning curve will be minimal because nobody wants to take a chance on somebody they can hire an easy fit, right? So we've got to show them that the learning curve is minimal. And I'm going to walk you through how to do that in just a minute. The second thing that we want to demonstrate to them is that you being a non traditional candidate is actually an asset. So instead of it being a thing that we hide, I want to figure out after we've established that the learning curve is minimal, that you bring something extra by being an outsider. Before I dive into all that. Am I on the same page with you where you want to focus today?
- [06:24]
Katie
Yes. That sounds wonderful.
- [06:25]
Claire Wasserman
Okay, great. So you mentioned a few things already in feedback that you've received, and I'm glad that you've gotten, you know, not just rejected in, in the first round. The reason I'm glad that you've gotten a few rounds in is because you've now established relationships with these hiring managers and, and whoever else you've met, no idea where they're going to go next and also if another position may open up later down the road. So for you and anyone watching and listening who you know is in a process of yes, I've had a few rounds of interviews, but I'm not landing the job. Don't feel like it's all a waste. Okay. It's broadening your network. And listen, I've never gotten a job through a cold application. It's always come through my network and through my relationships. So you are doing that and you're doing it successfully. But how do we take that next leap past the ooh, okay, you sort of have comparable but not totally right experience. Let's break it down into as many different areas in which we can nail either the gap you have or the story we're going to tell around the gap. We've got skills, we've got experience. We've got network. What else could we be missing? Just throw out as many as you can. And by the way, it doesn't have to be what you're missing. It's just the things that they're looking for that they don't want to have to train you on. I mean, it's basically credibility. Right. So again, we've got skills, we've got experience, we've got your network. Right. Relationships are important. Schooling maybe. I mean, is there anything else you can think of?
- [07:55]
Katie
I'm not sure. I think that a lot of times people who work in like health tech companies, even though they're further away from the actual health care delivery, really like to hear your why. And so I have been applying at a couple of places that are more oncology or cancer care focused and I feel like I have a really strong why there as well. My dad passed away from a short battle with cancer four years ago and that has been really motivating to me to work somewhere really innovative and that's working to do cutting edge work with caring for people with cancer. And I feel like that's a really strong argument. I'm not just a nurse who is looking for a change. I've like, I've got a good story, but that's not always applicable. So that's not always deployed.
- [08:42]
Claire Wasserman
Okay, well, we're gonna obviously put that front and center. I'm so sorry to hear that. That is your story. But I'm also so happy that you can leverage it for growth. Yay.
- [08:50]
Katie
Seriously?
- [08:50]
Claire Wasserman
Yes.
- [08:51]
Katie
My dad would be happy.
- [08:52]
Claire Wasserman
Okay, so here's the best way. I think you can work backwards from anything that you might potentially be, quote, missing. And tell me if you've done any of this. Have you spoken to people who have the jobs that you want or people who are doing similar things? And by speaking to them, I don't just mean, oh, what do you like about your job? What I want you to do when you talk to these people is ask them what is difficult about their job. What skills have they felt that they've really needed to learn and leverage to not only solve the challenges of their job, but to be excellent. I want you to dig into the details of that because you'll then work backwards from those details and speak to them literally, specifically speak to them in your cover letter, in your interview, in whatever kind of exchange you're having, you will acknowledge the fact that, yes, you are making a pivot. However you have spoken to, let's just say five or eight or ten people who've been in the trenches for some time in doing this work and told you that the three biggest skills that they've used or whatever it is, you know, it's making sure that the person who's hearing you understands that this isn't just about aspirations, it's about the obstacles in the way of the aspiration. So what is difficult about this job? And chances are what was difficult was probably not, I don't know, learning how to use a platform or a piece of software. It was probably the soft skills. Right? It's probably going to be things that when you hear them you go, oh, I totally have a story for that. I have a great example of how I've done that. Tell me though, is this resonating? Have you tried it and what do you feel?
- [10:37]
Katie
Yes, I have spoken with a couple of different project and product managers. I actually am married to a product manager, but he is much more tech focused so that I've been learning about what he's been doing for the past 10 years. But it's a lot different than the work I would want to be doing. And I've talked with a product manager that works for a health insurance company and done a lot of talking with her very recently about what leads people to be successful in that role. And something that she said that I really felt hopeful about was someone who's a clear communicator and able to drive meetings forward is a key skill that they need that her current team lacks. And that is something I feel like I have in spades. I am always the person in the meeting going, okay, we've talked about all these things, but what are we doing next? Okay, we're meeting again in two weeks. Who is going to have what piece of this puzzle done by then? What's getting in our way of getting these things moving forward. So that's been really great. And then I've also spoken with a long term project manager in a large manufacturing type company and she had wonderful things to say about not necessarily needing a certification to be qualified for the position and really using how to think and how to solve problems to your advantage of looking for dependencies, looking for things that are unforeseen problems that a member of your team might miss that you need to make sure get addressed so that the project can move forward. And I've been trying to think of more and more examples in my current work of how to illustrate that when asked in interview questions what kind of things I can relate for my previous jobs to these new project manager roles.
- [12:22]
Claire Wasserman
Okay, so if I Asked you, based on these new positions that you're applying for, do you feel confident that you could tell me the three biggest challenges that this role has to solve?
- [12:35]
Katie
I think I have more work to do with my network, hearing more from people, specifically in these health tech companies. I think I need to get closer to what they are dealing with on a day to day basis to be.
- [12:48]
Claire Wasserman
Able to speak to that, really do intense research because they'll also be impressed that you did the research. So, you know, let alone the story that you tell, the fact that you went and talked to all of these people, that you're self aware enough to recognize that yes, there will be a learning curve, but you did your homework, you did your due diligence to minimize how much of a learning curve that is and that you are explicitly calling out to them saying, hey, listen, taking a chance on me is not going to be as big of a deal leap as you think it is because I have spoken to these people. And also if you're getting feedback about certain things that they feel like you are lacking, how do you speak to that up front? So don't, don't make them ask you, right. Because then you're sort of more in a defensive position, but really as part of like your opening case. And I'm a really big believer that when having these kind of conversations with both employers, but also just people we network with in general, they kind of only remember how we started the conversation and also how we end it. And so it's your opening case and your closing case is reiterating to them very specific points, usually bucketed, right. So here are the three major challenges in the research that I did, you know, that I'm going to come across in this role. And here are examples in the ways that I've approached these kinds of challenges in my current position and by the way, in the stories that you tell, right. Like I'm the person in the meeting who always asks about the next steps. I love that. The next thing I would say though is, and if this is possible for you, what was the impact, like what happened next after that? And if you can help the other person visualize that scene as best as possible. So even mentioning things like what was at stake, right, like when you worked on this project or had this meeting or whatever the experience was, you know, investment that the company was making in your time and energy, that because of the fact that you were focusing on this, why did that matter? Right? So let's like pump up the drama. Also in the story that we Tell. And none of this is lying, by the way. All of this, you know, it's all true.
- [14:50]
Katie
It's just.
- [14:50]
Claire Wasserman
Can you express it in maybe a more compelling way? And that honors, you know, getting the truth of the situation. Okay, so minimizing the learning curve. Now, if they keep saying, all right, well, you haven't had the title, you can say, well, yes, I may have not had that specific title, but, you know, again, based off of everything that we've discussed in the research I've done, these are the areas in which, you know, my skills are transferable. And then you would transition into why? Being an outsider gives you an advantage, actually, and not just this bullshit like, trust me, being an outsider gives you an advantage. No, you have to give an example. So that's something we could maybe even brainstorm here. So an advantage to being an outsider, giving an example of that. So if there's ever been an experience you've had where, you know, whether you were taking some time off and you came back and you had fresh eyes, you really want to help the other person visualize it as best as you can. So not speaking in these, like, broad, abstract terms, but okay, in this experience, you know, we were all trying to figure out this solution and no one could. And then, you know, whatever it was, I had two days off and then I came back and I had this aha moment or, I don't know. Katie, if there's anything that's coming to mind for you where you could show me how in hopefully your professional experience, that outside perspective has been helpful for you.
- [16:11]
Katie
In my current position that I am currently working in, I was hired as someone who had all of the administrative soft leadership skills that they needed, but was lacking specific experience in my current specialty in healthcare. So I had all of the other background was really solid, but I was really new to my current specialty. The physiology, the anatomy, the expectations of care. That was very new. And I feel like my newness to it really helped ask some clarifying questions so that we could really better create a great client experience. So the clients coming into our care, they are also not experts in that specialty. They have new diagnoses. They're encountering this kind of care provider for the very first time. How do we make sure that they, too, understand what's expected of them? How do we make sure that they understand what to expect of their providers? And I feel like I helped add a lot of clarity and not just have us work in this echo chamber of everyone who is an expert in the specialty.
- [17:18]
Claire Wasserman
I think that's great.
- [17:24]
Morgan Lavoie
Hold onto your wallets. Money rehab will be right back. And now for some more money rehab.
- [17:37]
Claire Wasserman
Reassuring them that the learning curve will be more minimal with you than they might imagine is demonstrating an example from the past in which you were new, right? And that so what you just shared with me, even though it was more of an example for why does an outsider perspective give you an advantage? I like that. It also kind of does double duty of I was new, right? So that's also something to have in your back pocket prepared. Maybe even mention like really frickin hard things that I'm sure you had to do, right? That's going to now put into pretty nice perspective. I'm sure the things you would be doing for a tech company are not as difficult to learn as things for nursing. Are we talking about life or death circumstances here, by the way? My son is medically complex and has had multiple open heart surgeries. So I am like I'm all about the nurses and the doctors, mostly the nurses. And that makes me feel like, well I just send newsletters for a living like you know, so you could sort of make a joke about it. Like hey, you know, I to learn these things and you know, I love learning. I'm all about learning and I'm sort of looking forward to not having to learn when there's a life or death situation or you know, you can kind of point out the absurdity. Have you ever managed somebody before? You're like, well I've kept people alive, you know, so if maybe there's a way to weave in some humor again. The self awareness is so critical and it sounds like you really do have that already within you. It's just being able to connect the dots explicitly for them about why. Again, minimal learning curve and benefit to being an outsider. The third thing here is your why. Now you can tell a beautiful story about it and that's fine, but we want to now take it to the next level, which is it's going to sound funny the way I say this, but why does your why matter? Like why does that matter to them? Why does it matter for your work? Is that something that you do? When you talk about your reasons for wanting to go into this field, do you then connect the dots to how it affects the work you do? And of course that is the impact on the business bottom line. Ultimately, I think so.
- [19:41]
Katie
I feel like I could speak to the fact that when working in the hospital or outpatient or on the supposed front lines of patient care, there's typically a 8 to 15 year practice gap that we're all working under, where the best practices or new research comes out. And it takes the average outpatient center or Hospital 8 to 15 years to be implementing that new cutting edge care. And for whatever reason, there are a lot of obstacles in the way of that. And I really want to be working on the cutting edge of the care. I want to be on the front end of finding out the best solutions and finding a faster way to get that information to providers to get those practices to touch patients even faster. Because with how much our population is aging, how much we're all changing, we just, we don't have that time to waste. And our healthcare system can't afford for providers to be practicing with 8 to 15 year old information when they could be making amazing advances in their patients care today if they had access to the right information and the right protocols for care.
- [20:59]
Claire Wasserman
Yes, but why you?
- [21:01]
Katie
Okay, I got stuck.
- [21:04]
Claire Wasserman
Yeah, like all of that was great. I'm like that all makes sense, but it's not connected to you. And you're trying to make the point that you are the hire, you're the special hire. Not that there is a need for this thing to be done and that you, you believe in the need, you've seen the need. But why does it make it a benefit to them that you know this? You don't need to answer that question. But I, I really want to push you and everybody watching and listening because I've worked with thousands and thousands of job seekers. Oftentimes I hear the first part of the answer. Okay, where I go, yes, that is correct and right. We've got to now show them how you do that in your way and how that's an impact on their bottom line or how that's, you know, going to help them. Before though we dig too deep down that road. I want to talk about the jobs that you are applying to. I have suggestions for where I think maybe you should be looking that are going to say yes to you much quicker than other people. Not specific company names, I'm sorry to say, but kind of categories of companies. And by the way, anyone listening or watching this is relevant to you too, no matter what industry or role that you have or want to be in. Before I talk about that though, maybe you tell me, how did you decide which jobs to look at or which companies to be to be researching?
- [22:20]
Katie
It really has been depending on the job listing and the job description posted. Because I feel like product and project manager can be so many different things at so many different companies, and I don't want ones I clearly am not qualified for, ones that need Python or SQL or like knowing programming languages. I'm clearly not going to be the right fit for that, so I'm not going to waste my time. But I'm looking for ones that are specifically like have healthcare experience or tech experience or management experience, or ones that are looking for people manager experience and tech experience or healthcare experience. Ones that have, from the get go, broader requirements that I could fit into. But I might not be their typical candidate. But it's been tough because every title can mean so many different things at different companies. So I'd love additional suggestions.
- [23:15]
Claire Wasserman
So my suggestion a little bit radical. I would not be looking at open job postings. Okay, I mean, fair enough, have a Google Google alert up, you know, compile it into a spreadsheet. But chances are it's too late because a lot of these jobs, when they're listed, they're already in motion. Filling the role, whether internally or through relationships, doesn't mean you don't look at them. But I would say your best bet is to first make a list of all the companies that you have interacted with over the past 10 years, if you can remember them. This is advice to you, Katie, but also everybody watching and listening. You want to move on from your company and you're going to try to make a big leap. Chances are no one's going to hire you. So we've got to find a company that we have some familiarity with already. That doesn't mean that company has to know us. It literally could be a piece of equipment that you used in your job. Or for example, in my son's case, he has a stent that was put into him that was approved by the FDA two days before it was put in. Well, that is a biotech company. So if I were working at the hospital, I was one of his nurses. I'm trying to move on from nursing going into healthcare tech, med tech. I might say, hey, I was a nurse for this child who got a stent that was created by this really cool company. I would look into the company. So it's not, oh, does that company have an open job? But it's saying, who are basically the players in the field that I'm interested in getting into? Like, who's in this space, starting with the company. And then you look at who are the people maybe you've worked with. You know, for those watching, listening, who maybe are, let's say, I don't know, you're an advertising, right You've worked for an agency. Well, who are the brands that you've interacted with before? Or platforms, Right. Softwares.
- [25:05]
Katie
Right.
- [25:05]
Claire Wasserman
Maybe there's a piece of. You're like obsessed with todoist.com, right? Or there's just something that you have used or been exposed to that kind of makes a cool product. You know, for lack of a better way of putting it, you're just like, I'm interested in this. Clearly they're doing good. I would start there. Does anyone come to mind, by the way, when you, you know. And have you thought of it in this way yet?
- [25:29]
Katie
Yes, I have a few that I have reached out to and then a few where I know people. So that's helpful. And I feel like I could really start brainstorming and come up with a lot more than I would expect.
- [25:41]
Claire Wasserman
Yes. And you know what? I'm going to tell you something that'll help you come up with even more for every company that you write down. So the Renata Medical, you know, this is the stent company. I would then Google competitors. By the way, this is helpful advice for anybody who's also trying to do market research for your salary. The way that you get paid, and this is something I'll probably talk about in another episode, but the way that you get paid is based off of, well, what is the competitor paying? A similar role. That's how these companies are deciding how much you're currently worth in the market. They're going, well, our competitor company, how much do they pay their talent? Who does something similar? So follow that as your kind of research rabbit hole roadmap. I like an alliteration research rabbit hole roadmap. So you go, okay, I like this company, or I'm intrigued by this company. Now I'm going to Google competitor. The other thing you can do is see who works there in the position that you're looking for and Also maybe the CEO, then look them up on LinkedIn, where did they used to work? Write that company down. Now Google competitor to that company, write that down. And then look at CEO and somebody or a few people who do something similar that you wanted to do. Right this way, you, for everything that you come up with. So for every 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 companies you come up with, you now have like exponentially increased the number of potential opportunities you could find. And you're doing it in a pretty easy way. The other thing that you can think about is not just companies or brands that you've sort of interacted with or, you know, observed over the last 10 years, but problems that you have been itching to solve. So this is going to give you a little bit of an edge when you're interviewing, because you can then say, I have intimately experienced this problem. So, for example, and I'm sure you can give me some right now, whether it's in your day to day as a nurse, or maybe it was during a certain experience that you had where you were like, man, this thing needs to be better, like there's gotta be a more efficient way to do this, or man, like the patient care was sort of lacking here, whatever, like there was something that you felt could have been better. I would then try to research who out there is solving this problem, because chances are somebody is trying. Maybe not. Maybe that's why there's still a problem. But maybe you could find at least one or two companies that are attempting to address this problem. This might be a company you want to work for because a listen, if you're solving problems that you're passionate about, that's purpose, right? That's purpose driven work. And number two, when you apply, you're going to say, I have experienced this problem, right? So even if you're making a leap into a new field, you're going to have to explain why your skills are transferable. Well, this is pretty obvious that you're exactly the person to help them solve this problem because you've experienced it on the other side, Right? It's almost like you're their ideal customer, because that's the other thing. Applying to companies where you are their customer brings this amazing perspective that they could really leverage and learn from. Tell me what your thoughts are and all about that.
- [28:55]
Katie
I think that sounds great. I feel like I could create a very big list of a wide ranging variety of problems. So I feel like that'd be a great list to start making.
- [29:03]
Claire Wasserman
So you're going to be looking at these companies, looking at these people. Make sure that your LinkedIn will tell me you are currently employed elsewhere. So if you were to update your LinkedIn and be pretty transparent about the pivot you want to make, that that's not okay right now. Yeah, not right now. Okay.
- [29:20]
Katie
All right.
- [29:20]
Claire Wasserman
You could always message people privately for everybody else watching, listening, who maybe are unemployed or as I like to say, fun employed. And it's not a problem to be explicit about where you want to go next. You're going to want to put in your headline the job title that you're looking for. And you can even just say looking to, you know, applying to these kinds of jobs and in your about, you know, you'll be very clear about it because when you start to follow and comment on other people's LinkedIns, they will inevitably look at yours. And I want it to be representative of where you're at and what your goals are. In your case, okay, not so much. But you at least see who you have connections to. So talk to me about your network and how you're currently leveraging or not.
- [30:04]
Katie
So right now I've been talking to people that I know that are working in companies that I am interested in. So that fortunately or unfortunately has been the only way that I think I've been securing these interviews. So I've gotten to three different hiring managers. It, I feel like it's gone pretty well, but in a really nice way. I feel like I'm getting better and better with each interview. So while you're right, it has been demoralizing. It has been a total blow to the self esteem to get that sad email like three weeks later. That's like, oh, we, we went with someone with a more relevant background. Like such a blow. But at the same time, I feel like each time I'm interviewing, I'm doing better at translating what experience I have that is relevant to them and why they need me on their team. And eventually, you know, it only takes one new job to be the right new job. And I feel like it's still out there.
- [31:02]
Claire Wasserman
But yeah, no, and it is.
- [31:09]
Morgan Lavoie
Hold on to your wallets. Money rehab will be right back. And now for some more money rehab.
- [31:22]
Claire Wasserman
By the way, it will, I think, always be demoralizing. I think the goal should be though, how can we recover from the rejection faster? So if right now the rejection, I don't know, it hurts for like five days or five hours, let's make it five minutes. And how do we do that? That's therapy work. Okay, so that's also a different coaching session. But one thing, I will invite you and everybody listening who is dealing with rejection from others. It is a signal to us that we need to develop a sense of self and a self worth that is protected from whatever somebody else says to us. It's almost impossible to do that. We're wired to be social. We're literally wired to do the best we can to not be rejected by others. So don't fight this too much again, it's like kind of accepting that, yeah, I'm gonna feel bummed for a little bit and not piling on to it. Not now getting mad at yourself that you're feeling Rejected. It's like, yeah, every time I get rejected, I'm going to feel like crap for a little bit of time. I'm going to do something nice for myself or whatever. But maybe just see it as a reminder of this is you building again, this, like, deeper sense of self that no matter what happens outside of you, you are still okay on the inside. And if you can kind of master that, again, very difficult, ever changing. But it is probably the number one skill set you could develop that will safeguard you against any of the chaos in this world. Because so much of it is other people's stuff or things that we can't even. I mean, quite frankly, we just can't control. And it's so difficult. So you are right now in an experience that is challenging you to address this number one skill set. So again, you're never going to truly master it because we're sort of not wired to. But if you can minimize the suffering in some way, take the edge off in some way, that would be a great goal. And as you witness yourself doing that, make sure that you celebrate it. But to get back into leveraging, you're going to now amass this much larger spreadsheet. This ultimately is a numbers game. However, I don't want you wasting your time applying to places where the fit isn't right, which you've mentioned you're not doing. I really think if you go, I'm going to recap the stuff we've talked about. Sounds like you're doing all of them. Ish, but I want to turn up the volume on it. Talk to real people who have the job that you want or something similar about what is extremely difficult in their job and the skills that they've needed to get through it. Use that to reflect on how have I done that? Tell that story with specifics and as best as you can. Metrics. Okay. How did all of this impact the business or another team that impacted the business, or how did this relate to the company's goals? Like, always, always take that next step. Any of the feedback you're getting from hiring managers, if it's been specific at all? I think some of it has. Ah, you're missing this. You're missing this. Missing this. I would say maybe proactively address it with specific examples of, you know, learning curve.
- [34:31]
Katie
Right.
- [34:31]
Claire Wasserman
So next thing is demonstrating that the learning curve is minimal and here's how you've learned in the past and learned quickly. Then really emphasizing your why, but connecting it to why that matters to the company. Okay. And then really you know, dive into, again, problems that you've solved that are absolutely related to this company. You've seen it in a different way. So, like, you are familiar with this product or this experience, but just from the other side. And then you'll end with, and here's why. An outside perspective is an asset with an example of how you've done this before. The last thing I want to mention is just bridge opportunities. Right. And I'm sure you've thought of this, but I want to just mention it. You know, some of these companies, do we need to have some experience in the interim in order to get them to say yes? And if so, can we get specific about what it is that they need to see from you that you, I guess, don't have, and how can you, as best you can, generate that experience for yourself? Right. We keep waiting for somebody else to say yes to us. We're going to be waiting a really long time. So maybe you could kind of spitball with me for a second here. Is there, has there been anybody who's given you feedback and that made you think, okay, where else can I look or how else can I think about giving myself this whatever it is that they're looking for so that when I do apply, I'll have something to say yes?
- [36:06]
Katie
The vague feedback I've received that they went with candidates for additional interviews that have a more relevant background, specifically, and I've been thinking, there is a health tech startup incubator in my city with a large variety of health tech startups that are in various phases of their growth, whether they're brand new and they just created their logo or they have clients, they have backing and they might be on a further round of funding. I could create some sort of pitch and reach out to people that I see on LinkedIn and see if they need extra help or if it's a way that I can practice my skills. I can also look through my LinkedIn connections, especially looking for those people with similar roles. And I feel like everybody loves talking about how they got to where they are are, and just seeing what different routes people took to get the positions that they had.
- [37:04]
Claire Wasserman
Yes, thousand percent. I. I love that you're already thinking about this.
- [37:08]
Katie
Yeah.
- [37:08]
Claire Wasserman
I think any kind of startup or nonprofit that you could participate in, I mean, even things like if there's a focus group, you know, for any of these startups who are looking to connect with nurse, whatever, like something where you're able to not just get the experience that they're looking for, because chances are it's not going to totally be what they're looking for, of course, but it's demonstrating that you're putting in the work. To my earlier point of when you talk to a bunch of people about what's difficult in their job and the relevant and critical skills that they need, that makes your story stronger. But it's the self awareness, it's the doing your homework, it's the fact that you are taking steps. You're not just, hey, I'm applying, pick me or hey, here's the work I've done. No, again, it's like I am so self aware and self motivated. I understand what your concerns are. I hear you. And here's what I have done and am continuing to do to kind of bridge that gap between where I'm at today and where I am tomorrow. That is really impressive. And you also can't teach somebody that. I mean, I guess you can. I'm trying right now. Right, because I'm coaching. But you already know, I, I hope I'm giving you that extra boost of where you should put your energy so that you're not repeating the same, you know, apply to the same kind of companies that only have open job postings with the same story over. Like we've got to try something new, something different. And kind of what's exciting about that is you will get traction somewhere. Right? If we keep applying for the same stuff and keep getting a no, of course we're going to feel like crap because there's literally no progress. But if you now are talking to these startups or, or maybe not just a startup, I don't know, let's say you connect with TechCrunch or like a tech publication and then you connect with a journalist who covers healthcare tech and you're like, hey, I can be a source for you. I don't know, you just think of this really creatively. You may find you get a yes from somebody unexpected and then that's going to give you a boost of energy to sustain you through the demoralizing no's. So I'm feeling pretty positive about where we're at and I think we're going to close up in just a second. So is there anything else you want to add or any area I can kind of clarify for you? I'm. I mean, I'm feeling good about this, but you're the one who's going on this journey, so tell me how you're feeling.
- [39:26]
Katie
No, I think this does feel very invigorating and really exciting and I also think it's such a good time of the year to get reinvigorated for looking for a job. Like everyone's budgets are brand new, people are posting lots more. I feel like people are have awakened after the holidays and I feel like it's a really good time to be reaching out to people, making connections, asking questions and seeing where that leads.
- [39:50]
Claire Wasserman
And also, everybody was you at some point. I mean, maybe they weren't making a big pivot, but they were trying something new or just entering the field or if they're the person who created the company, right, the fear of starting something. So really don't underestimate what it takes to do this, both for yourself and the pride you feel, but also how that's an impressive part of your story, right? The courage to go, this isn't working. And I found out the path that will work for me. You know, just that you did that, that inner work and you took the extra steps. Right. So make sure that's part of the story. It's not obvious to everybody. So as long as you're explicitly, you know, sharing it. And again, why does this make you the right fit? Why does this make you good at your job? Always take that next step. I'm going to thank you, Katie, so much for being here. Please keep us posted. I always want to do a follow up episode, especially if the person gets the job, you know, kind of where you're at. So definitely reach out. Maybe Nicole will let us come back and I can guest host again. But super appreciate you being vulnerable and I know that there's a lot of people out there watching and listening who have been nodding their heads at many aspects of this conversation and I have no doubt you're going to end up in a really awesome place.
- [40:59]
Katie
Great. Thank you, Claire.
- [41:03]
Morgan Lavoie
Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lapin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Our researcher is Emily Hunt. Homes, do you need some Money Rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions moneyrehaboneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one on one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagramoneynews and TikTokoneyNewsnetwork for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.