Turning Brows Into a Billion-Dollar Business: Anastasia Soare on Building Anastasia Beverly Hills

Summary

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Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin

Episode: Turning Brows Into a Billion-Dollar Business: Anastasia Soare on Building Anastasia Beverly Hills
Date: October 21, 2025

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Episode Overview

Nicole Lapin, financial expert and host, interviews Anastasia Soare, founder of Anastasia Beverly Hills, known worldwide as the “queen of brows.” The energetic conversation traces Anastasia’s journey from communist Romania to the heights of the global beauty industry, building a brand that’s valued at $3 billion. The episode is packed with personal stories, sharp business advice, negotiation strategies, family dynamics, product innovation, and candid takes on money, happiness, and modern beauty trends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Money Mindset & Entrepreneurial Roots

• Growing up in Communist Romania:
  Anastasia shares how her mother was exceptionally able to run a clothing business for the elite, teaching her the basics of entrepreneurship and financial management from age 12.
  • Quote: “After school every day, I would go in the atelier… I learn everything about how she market herself, how she was able to do all her finance. She was very savvy.” (05:02)
• Independence as a Driving Force:
  Anastasia equates money with freedom and independence, citing early struggles as formative.
  • Quote: "Having money means being independent and being able to do things that you want and you love. This is what gives you that freedom." (06:27)

2. Immigration, Credit, and Starting from Scratch

• Credit Hurdles:
  Anastasia explains her challenge getting a credit card as a new immigrant and how she convinced a bank manager at Wells Fargo to give her a $500 credit card by negotiating and leveraging the small cash reserves she had.
  • Quote: “I said, ‘Look, I have $2,000 in my checking account. Can you give me a $500 credit card? I will prove that I’m going to pay every month…’” (09:06)
• Learning by Doing:
  From writing checks to dealing with credit, Anastasia emphasizes on-the-job learning—"By doing, you learn… making mistakes, you learn." (08:14)

3. Building a Celebrity Clientele and a Unique Brand

• Eyebrows as a Niche Service
  In the early 1990s, shaping brows wasn’t an established beauty service. Anastasia focused on mastering her craft, treating every client as walking advertising.
  • “My goal was to do the best job… Whether you were a celebrity or a student, this is my advertising, it’s a walking advertising.” (11:04)
• Referrals and Word-of-Mouth:
  Late nights, business cards, and consistent excellence built her loyal client list (e.g., Cindy Crawford, Jennifer Lopez).
  • Quote: “If you create the most beautiful eyebrows, the client will walk and she will send you…their best friend, their mother, their sisters…” (12:55)

4. Entrepreneurship: Failures, Negotiation, and Product Innovation

• Facing Rejection and Negotiating Rent:
  Anastasia was initially turned down when seeking to rent her own salon space. She relentlessly pleaded her case, drawing on her status as an immigrant and her passion as leverage.
  • Quote: “I pulled that trick: John, I am an immigrant, I’m sure somebody in your family was an immigrant...” (17:00)
• DIY Product Development:
  With no brow products on the market, Anastasia mixed her own pomades at home and invented tools like the angled brow brush.
  • Innovation Takeaway: She regrets not understanding trademarks and patents earlier—“Rule number one, when you start a business, hire a smart lawyer.” (20:30)
• On Brand Naming:
  She shares the complexities of using her name and trademark issues, and would choose differently now.
  • Quote: “Now I will never put a name, my name on a company…” (21:15)

5. Family Dynamics & Lessons

• Hiring (and Firing) Her Daughter:
  Anastasia shares a candid story of firing her daughter for repeated tardiness, insisting on high standards and equal treatment for all employees.
  • Quote: “I’m not your mother, when you come to work… I’m going to be harder on you than all the other employees because I will set an example.” (26:45)
• Working With Family:
  Strict rules, clear boundaries, and expecting family to work twice as hard to avoid favoritism.

6. Burnout, Work-Life, and Passion

• No Work-Life Split:
  Anastasia has never felt burnout because she loves her work deeply—work is life, and vice versa.
  • Quote: “If you want to be an entrepreneur, you have to love what you do. Otherwise, it will be hard… If you don’t love it, you will give up because it’s hard.” (23:15)

7. Taking Investments and Scaling Global

• Bootstrapping Until Private Equity:
  She details bootstrapping from 1997 to 2018, then accepting private equity (TPG) for international expansion and operational support.
  • Quote: “I hired a company that evaluated the business… We realized the company was evaluated at $3 billion…” (31:38)
• Advice on Private Equity:
  Know exactly what help you want (e.g., HR, CFO): “I personally don’t think [private equity] have operational experience…” (33:15)
  • If she could do it again, she’d have sold to a strategic earlier, at $1B. (34:56)

8. Social Media & Platform Growth

• Early Adopter with Major Scale:
  First beauty brand to reach 18 million+ Instagram followers, built on organic user-generated content and authentic community—not paid influencer posts.
  • Quote: “We kind of build a community… everybody loved makeup… we kind of organically grew together.” (37:06)
  • Social Changed: Now "you have to pay to play." (37:43)

9. Approach to Money and Happiness

• Still Works Like She Has Nothing:
  “I work like I can’t pay my rent next month… nothing has changed.” (37:59)
• Money, Meaning, and Passion:
  Purpose and passion trump monetary gains, though money brings independence.
  • Quote: “To me, that’s worth more than any money I have in the bank account.” (38:10)

10. Bullish or Bearish: Rapid-Fire on Beauty Trends ([39:00])

• Bleached Eyebrows: Bearish (unless just a shade lighter).
• Laminated Eyebrows: Bearish—prefers natural movement.
• Soap Brows: Bullish initially, but wax performs better.
• 90s Thin Brows: “That’s definitely a no, big bear, totally.” (41:54)
  • "I used to beg them… I'm sorry, this is not the service I could offer you. I can’t do that.” (42:07)
• Botox & Fillers: Becoming bearish; no longer likes the changed expression.

11. Resilience & Moving Past Trauma

• On Losing Her Home to Earthquake:
  Advice for overcoming loss: immerse in work, focus on positives, ritualize letting go with a symbolic gesture.
  • Quote: “Find something else to think that is positive… Don’t put energy on what it was—because anyway, you cannot change it… Write a letter, burn it…” (45:07)
• Living Without Fear:
  Acknowledges lasting trauma but refuses to live in fear.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Having money means being independent… this is what gives you that freedom.”
  Anastasia Soare, 06:27

• “By doing, you learn. Making mistakes, you learn.”
  Anastasia Soare, 08:14

• “I pulled that trick—John, I am an immigrant… you have to do this for me.”
  Anastasia Soare, 17:00

• “Rule number one when you start a business: hire a smart lawyer.”
  Anastasia Soare, 20:30

• “If you want to be an entrepreneur, you have to love what you do. Otherwise, it will be hard… If you don’t love it, you will give up because it’s hard.”
  Anastasia Soare, 23:15

• “I work like I can’t pay my rent next month… nothing has changed.”
  Anastasia Soare, 37:59

• “Purpose and that power to wake up every morning and do the things that I love—to me, that’s worth more than any money I have in the bank account.”
  Anastasia Soare, 38:10

• On 90s Thin Brows: "That's definitely a no, big bear, totally."
  Anastasia Soare, 41:54

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• Childhood & Early Lessons: 04:26 – 07:25
• Immigration, Learning US Money: 07:39 – 10:25
• Building Clientele & Mastering Eyebrows: 10:33 – 15:17
• First business, product innovation: 15:39 – 22:34
• Family, hiring/firing her daughter: 24:38 – 27:35
• Marriage, partnerships: 28:27 – 29:36
• Taking on investors & private equity: 30:34 – 35:16
• Instagram & Social Growth: 35:25 – 37:43
• Resilience & overcoming trauma: 44:57 – 47:44
• Bullish/Bearish beauty trends game: 38:48 – 44:43

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Memorable Moments

• Anastasia negotiating a credit card with Wells Fargo—classic immigrant tenacity.
• Vivid stories of product innovation at her kitchen table.
• Firing her own daughter, demonstrating tough leadership mixed with maternal care.
• Firm stance against 90s skinny eyebrows, even refusing clients’ requests.
• Emotional advice on overcoming traumatic loss and focusing on the future.

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Final Takeaways

This episode is a masterclass in perseverance, tactical negotiation, consumer obsession, and living purposefully. Anastasia Soare’s journey is a blueprint for self-made success, punctuated by hard-won financial independence, innovation, and a never-quit mindset. Listeners come away with lessons on personal finance, entrepreneurship, brand building, and resilience—plus invaluable, candid beauty industry insights.

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Transcript

[Nicole Lapin]

I'm Nicole Lapin, the only financial expert. You don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. Today, I sit down with the woman that Oprah called the queen of Brows, Anastasia Soiree, the founder of Anastasia Beverly Hills. And if you're wondering to yourself, can browse really be big business? Well, Anastasia scaled her company to a reported 3 billion doll valuation, and today she tells me how she did it. From growing up in communist Romania to building one of the most successful beauty brands in the world, Anastasia shares the negotiation tactics that she used early on to get partners to take a chance on her and what financial moves she made before taking a bet on herself. We also talk about the time she fired her own daughter, whether romantic relationships are a distraction in business, and how the heck she cultivated such an amazing celebrity client list that features names like Kris Jenner, Jennifer Lopez, Hailey Bieber, and more. Plus, we do a very special edition of Bullish or Bearish, where I ask Anastasia to rate beauty trends today. So whether you're interested in the beauty industry or just profitable businesses, this conversation has something for everyone. All this after a word from our sponsors. One of the smartest financial moves you can make is working with a certified financial planner. Instead of trying to wing it solo, Domain Money CFP Professional, just hand out generic financial advice. They help people get on track for early retirement, fix messy investment allocations, and figure out the perfect timing for major purchases like buying a house or, gosh, I don't know, growing a family. Asking for a friend? Yes, I am that friend. In fact, my husband and I actually just talked to Adriana Adams, head of financial planning at Domain, on the podcast, and she had this advice around what to do to set our daughter up for financial success.

[Adriana Adams]

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[Nicole Lapin]

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[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So excited to head up to Big.

[Nicole Lapin]

Sur with my husband this fall. We are celebrating our anniversary and while I will miss the little mush so much, we are also really excited to have a little parents time.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

We deserve that.

[Nicole Lapin]

But you know, it got me thinking about this feeling when you walk out of the door for a trip and you wonder what your blaze is doing while you're gone. Well, it turns out it could be working for you. I've been hosting on Airbnb for forever now and I tell all of my friends to do the same because it's an amazing way to make passive income from an asset. You already have your home. But some of my friends who are super busy worry that hosting on Airbnb would feel like having a second job. And that's when I tell them about Airbnb's co host network. Anything you don't have the bandwidth to do, a co host can handle for you. They can create your listing, manage reservations, manage guests, provide on site support, even handle design and styling. So whether you're traveling for work or you're escaping the winter, or if you have a second place that just sits empty way too often, your home doesn't have to sit on the sidelines. Instead, you can earn a little extra cash without adding another job to your plate. Find a co [e-mail] host Anastasia Soare welcome to Money Rehab.

[Anastasia Soare]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Nicole Lapin]

So excited, so excited to talk about.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Money because you are the brow queen, but also the money queen and love talking about business and money and I think that's so important to open up about because you came from nothing.

[Anastasia Soare]

Nothing.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Zero.

[Anastasia Soare]

That's right.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

In Romania, communist society. What was your idea about money growing up?

[Anastasia Soare]

Well, my mother was an entrepreneur. Living in a communist regime was quite difficult to own your own business for some reason. My mother was able to own her own business. She was making clothes. We for the elite, the wives and you know, happy wives, happy husband. Amen. And my mother was able to have this business. She had few people working for her and my father passed away when I was 12. So to be able to keep the business, she pulled me one evening we sat together at the table and she said, well, I can't do this by myself. You have to help me. And I Looked at her and like, Mom, I'm 12, I don't know anything about business. And very nonchalant. She said, now you are so smart, I will teach you everything. And after school every day, I will go in the atelier, I will do my homework. Between the sewing machines, I have my little table. And this is how I learn everything about how she market herself, how she was able to to all her finance. She was very savvy and I was lucky enough to learn everything from her.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

What stood out to me about that story is that at 12 years old, she said, you can do it. And I feel that from you, like you are so confident.

[Anastasia Soare]

I had to become confident and independent because it was no other way.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And do you still worry about money from growing up, seeing a communist society coming here? I'm first generation American and also lost everything in the fire in Los Angeles. So still feeling financial trauma is real. Like it never truly goes away. And some stuff that comes up can still trigger old wounds for sure. Do you feel like there's a day that you wouldn't have enough again or have you gotten over that?

[Anastasia Soare]

You know when you come from darkness, when you see the light, you are happy about. And if it's going to be dark again, you will try to find ways to survive. Of course I still want to enjoy my life and being independent because to me, having money means being independent and being able to do things that you want and you love. To me, this is what gives you that freedom. Financially independent woman is a woman that calls her shots wherever she wants. She could do it. You don't need to worry. Oh my God. I don't have money to pay my electrical bill. I don't have money to pay my rent. My car broke down. I don't have money to fix it. I had that.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Yeah.

[Anastasia Soare]

I came here too, and my goal was to find a way to not have that worry anymore.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And you did. But you've had no money and you've had a lot of money. Which one is better? Which one brings you more happiness?

[Anastasia Soare]

Of course a lot of money brings you happiness. When people said money don't bring happiness, I don't know. I don't think they experience the both side of not having or having.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Having is better.

[Anastasia Soare]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

When you first came to the US you started working at a salon. And I love this because the owners benefited from the Equal Credit Opportunity act and the Women's Business Ownership Act. I don't think people realize because. Because before that you couldn't get credit without a male relative.

[Anastasia Soare]

It was Even hard for me to get credit in 1990. People don't understand today it's so much easier to get.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

That you worked for two female entrepreneurs at the time.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

That was revolutionary.

[Anastasia Soare]

Very revolutionary, yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And what did that teach you about getting credit, starting a business?

[Anastasia Soare]

Well, every day I was learning. I was like a sponge. I wanted to learn everything from them. And I've done jobs that were not on my job description list, but I wanted to learn. So by doing, you learn, you know, making mistakes, you learn.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

I think people, when they come here for the first time, it's amazing that your mother was able to be an entrepreneur in a communist society. Super rare.

[Anastasia Soare]

Very unusual.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Incredible. And then coming here, did you even know what a credit card was or a credit score or.

[Anastasia Soare]

I didn't know how to write a check. So a friend, one day I invite him to dinner, like, you need to teach me. You need to teach me how to write a check. You need to teach me what is important. And he said, you have to get a credit card. What is a credit card? Well, you go to the bank. And so he walked me through the process. I went to the bank, Wells Fargo bank in Beverly Hills. And this was in 1990, when you couldn't get credit cards that easily. And they didn't want to give me a credit card because I didn't have history. My parents didn't have a history, a credit history. I wasn't qualified. And I said to the teller, can I talk with the manager? A gentleman came and I used everything that came in my mind to convince him. I said, well, I work hard, I am successful. Because at that time, it was 1992, I ready start working with a lot of celebrities, rented a room in, in a salon in Beverly Hills. So he still didn't want to give me a credit card. And I said, Look, I have $2,000 in my checking account. Can you give me a credit $500 credit card? And I proved that I'm going to pay every month and I'm going to be such a great customer and I'm going to be a Wells Fargo customer forever. To these days, I'm still banking sponsor you?

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Yes. I think people don't realize, especially immigrant families, that you need a good credit history to get a credit card, but you need a credit card to get a good history because it's like a catch 22, correct?

[Anastasia Soare]

Exactly.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So you became hugely popular at the salon where you rented the room. You started building out this celebrity client list.

[Anastasia Soare]

That time there were cover of magazines, there were the supermodels Cindy Crawford, Stephanie Seymour, Naomi Campbell, Heidi Klum. Yes, those were the covers of magazine. And then I was working with Michelle Pfeiffer, Faye Dunaway. I was kind of the best kept secret in Hollywood, I have to say. This is what Marina Ross that wrote an article in 1994 in Vogue magazine.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Then how did you get that word of mouth? You know when somebody is starting a business that's so important, very important.

[Anastasia Soare]

So my goal when I started was to do the best job. I wanted to master my craft. I wanted to do the best eyebrow ever. Didn't matter if you were a celebrity or you were, I don't know, a student or. Because in my mind was this is my advertising, it's a walking advertising. And in early 90s nobody was doing eyebrows for as a service. Of course we didn't have social media as well. I was on tv, I was on every beauty editor start kind of coming and getting their eyebrows done. So that was my way of promoting myself, my service. But in the same time I wanted to be the best in shaping eyebrows.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Yeah, because that's how people ask for a referral. They look at your. If you have terrible eyebrows, no one's asking who did your eyebrows. So over the years you grew so from the supermodels to Jessica Alba and Jennifer Lopez and Kris Jenner and Oprah and I think you're at Hailey Bieber's house yesterday.

[Anastasia Soare]

No, she was in my house. Oh, we are neighbors. She's such a wonderful and supportive, wonderful young woman. I really admire her a lot and Justin, they are so beautiful together.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

You just continue to build out your client list.

[Anastasia Soare]

It sounds like I start working with Jennifer Lopez in 1992 when she started the Selena movie if you can believe. And through this day she's still my client.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So how did you figure out how to maintain relationships or continue to get that word of mouth from these high end clients? I think when people are starting a business they want tips and tricks of do you send birthday presents, texts? How do you cultivate that?

[Anastasia Soare]

I used to work the salon from 8:30 in the morning until sometimes 8:9 o' clock at night and then I will go home, take a shower, change and go out. Used to go out with a hairstylist that was working with me. Her room was next to my room and we used to promote our business. We had business card at that time you used to hand your business card and this is how we used to promote our business. So was non stop not only during the day creating the most beautiful eyebrows and the client will walk and she will send you. You know, when somebody loves their eyebrows, they will send their best friend, their mother, their sisters. So this is how it is. Eyebrow is one of the most important feature on our face and kind of brings balance in proportion. So that is makes you feel so good about yourself.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Absolutely. But nobody made it such an empire until you came around. So you started building this amazing client list and then you asked the salon basically to do your own thing. So you were an intrapreneur before you were an entrepreneur, but they said no and that was kind of a blessing in disguise.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yeah, I mean I was in America for two years. I barely spoke the language. I didn't have a credit card, I didn't know how to write a check.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So you were just buying everything in cash like all your supplies.

[Anastasia Soare]

And it was quite difficult for me to even think that I could open my own business. And when they said no after a month or two, I thought, I really believe in this eyebrow. This is science combined with beauty. I can't believe nobody even talked about how important eyebrows are. In my art school, my teacher really emphasized if you want to draw a portrait and you want to change an emotion, you change the eyebrow shape on the portrait.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

I've been nervous this entire time thinking about my own eyebrows and my own ratio.

[Anastasia Soare]

Beautiful eyebrows. You are doing great. Gorgeous cheeks. You always need thick eyebrows.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Yes. I really was brow orexic. What do you call it?

[Anastasia Soare]

The anorexic.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

For a long time. But I. Yeah, thank you so much. I've been nervous the whole time wondering what you think about my eyebrows.

[Anastasia Soare]

So you have Anastasia approved.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Oh yes. Dream come true.

[Nicole Lapin]

Hold on to your wallets. Money rehab will be right back. And now for some more money rehab.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So you saved about $5,000 at the time to start your own business. That was a lot of money at the time.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

In cash money or now you had a bank account and you also had a problem getting rent.

[Anastasia Soare]

When I say 5,000, I rented the room in a salon. The first step in 1990. And from 1992 to 1997 I worked and created an incredible clientele and I saved $60,000. But remember I used to. I didn't have a cleaning lady. I clean, I wash my clothes and my family. I cooked. I never went to a restaurant because I couldn't afford. I had to save every penny. And I drove my Ford that I spent $200 when I came here for probably until 95.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

I should ford Pinto.

[Anastasia Soare]

You know those long station wagons. Parents had that with the wood on the side.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And so when you started to go out on your own, you also were rejected, right? From renting a store?

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes. The owner didn't want to rent me the space because.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

But again, you convinced him.

[Anastasia Soare]

I convinced him I couldn't leave that place without getting an yes from the owner.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And how'd you do it?

[Anastasia Soare]

I use every trick. I went there with the article in magazines. I went there, still wasn't impressed. I went there and again I pulled that trick. John, I am an immigrant. I'm sure somebody in your family was an immigrant. Somebody gave them a chance to do something. You have to do this for me. I am passionate about my work. I work really hard. And by the way, this place was empty for two years. Give it to me for six months. If it's not going to happen, if I cannot pay the rent, then I will leave anyway and I will go and rent a room. What do you have to lose?

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And he said, yes, like, okay, six months. Because I think people don't just invest in businesses, they invest in people. And you are so contagious, sister. Like, I want to give you my wallet right now.

[Anastasia Soare]

Two hours. Trust me, he could. I.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

He was like, enough.

[Anastasia Soare]

The broker that I went there. This guy's not gonna give it like, no, we are not leaving this place until I get the. I don't take no as an answer.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

It doesn't seem like it.

[Anastasia Soare]

What can I do to change your mind, John? Tell me. Please tell me. What do you want me to do? I will come and clean your office. What do you want me to do? He started laughing. But I didn't leave that room until I got there. Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Incredible. And then you decided you wanted to go into products.

[Anastasia Soare]

Well, there were no products for eyebrows. So I was mixing in my kitchen some aloe vera with eyeshadow and vaseline and create this pomade. And I went to our store and I got the brush and I cut it to be angle cut and I start using that to create the perfect arch. Because of course there were a lot of women that they over tweezed their eyebrows and then after a while they said, well, after I take my shower, my eyebrow disappears. We need that product. So.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And you couldn't name it Anastasia at the time?

[Anastasia Soare]

Well, I name it first Anastasia and I realized that it's so hard to trademark. That was one lesson for me. And I tell everyone, pick a name that is easy to trademark because Anastasia, there are so many Anastasia. It's a name. When you have a name. I don't Know any very difficult to trademark. So that's why I had to put Beverly Hills.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And you also invented the brush that.

[Anastasia Soare]

You talked about making up the was the first brush. Because I used to have like probably 100 clients a day sometimes. And I designed the caddy where my wax was there. I had to minimize every single move to do eyebrows. I had to master this in five minutes. And I had the brush from the art store cut it angle cut. And then I will put the brush down and I will take the spoolie to blend the color. So I will waste time by doing that movement. So I went to a manufacturer, I said, can you put this together? Was so much easier for me to move fast.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

Because you're.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

You have to scale yourself. You're one person to grow your business. You have to get it down to science.

[Anastasia Soare]

Exactly.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And so you invented this brush that didn't exist, but you didn't patent it.

[Anastasia Soare]

No, I didn't. Because I didn't know you could pat on that. I know that I inspire so many other brands that they have the brush.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So if you could go back to your former self.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yeah. I would say hire a lawyer. Rule number one, when you start a business, hire a smart lawyer. Not only for trademark if you have inventions, but a lawyer to. To make any contract to help you to sign anything.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

But you were hell bent on having Anastasia as the name. There was no other option. You added Beverly Hills. Did you think of any?

[Anastasia Soare]

Now I will never put a name, my name on a company. I will definitely put, I don't know, the money news or whatever.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Wait a minute.

[Anastasia Soare]

How to make money. No, I will not steal your trademark.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

If you were to start another business.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

You wouldn't go by the name?

[Anastasia Soare]

No, because I spent so much money to protect, defend it.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So now there's so many dupes with the brushes. How do you feel about that?

[Anastasia Soare]

I mean, do you get annoyed? Yeah, of course. I mean, I made the brow freeze wax.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

I love it. Thank you.

[Anastasia Soare]

It's great with the brush that we patent the spatula with the spoolie and eight months later somebody of course looks clear, looks the same, but it's not performing the same. But it kind of hurts because I spend a lot of time on creating innovating products. I'm all about innovating products. Even all my eyebrow products. When I started it, I had to start from nothing. I will create a product based on the need of a client. What challenges she had. She had curly hair, she had over tweezed. She never tweezed. You know, every product was specifically for challenge that one of my client had and I had to offer her a product. But copying is like the best way of flattering. Flattery. Yeah, but sometimes I want people to acknowledge that I started, I was the og. You are the I invented the I.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

We are all acknowledging, we bow down to the OG for sure. What worries me now though too is that a lot of these dupes are coming from China. Yes, they're dangerous and they have weird chemicals.

[Anastasia Soare]

For instance, when we create a products for six months they go to the lab to stability to make sure people are putting in their face, on their lips. And as you know, the skin is the biggest organ. So you absorb everything in your body.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So be careful.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So when you started and it sounds like to now you've said that your favorite hobby is work. You work and you work some more. By the way, I say the same thing. Have you ever felt burnt out?

[Anastasia Soare]

No, I'm never. Because I love what I do for me is not work. This is my life. I don't even know what to do if I will not work. If you ask me, Anastasia, take a break for a month, then go on vacation. I will really, I don't know what to do with myself. And don't get me wrong, I like vacation. But for me a vacation is I have to combine with work and I will take three days for myself as a vacation. But in a way I will have dinners related to business or I will have a lunch related or somebody with somebody that I do business. But me and my daughter, we in the last myself because she's way younger. For so many years this is what we did and we don't feel we work. And that's the key if you want to be an entrepreneur. You have to love what you do. Otherwise will be hard. If you don't love it, you will give up because it's hard.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

I struggle with the work life balance because I think that there's not such a clear delineation. Yes, work is life. Life is worse.

[Anastasia Soare]

Okay, I'm cutting and after 5 o' clock I don't do and I will stop doing business. Business. It didn't work for me. I mean if you are able to do it, good for you. But I couldn't do it.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

But you hired your daughter.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes, I hire and I fire her.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Okay, tell me, tell me why.

[Anastasia Soare]

Well, she start working at the salon. She was in school and of course like any teenager, she wanted to have fun. This is what she used to say. I want to have fun. I don't want to work like you you that much. And I said, well, life is not like that. If you are able to manage, you could have fun as well or love what you do. And you will have fun. So she's supposed to be at work at 8:30 before the client will arrive at 9:00'. Clock. And she was late one day because she would go with her friends out and she was late one day. The second time I warned her and I said, if you are late one more time, I'm. I'm gonna fire you. I don't think she believed me. And the third time, pack your bags, you're fired. So she went and she got the job, I think at the insurance company. I never asked her. And after three weeks, four weeks, she came to the salon and asking me for some money. She wants to borrow some money because she didn't have enough money after taxes to pay her her bills and rent specially. And I said, I'm sorry, I can't do that for you, Mom, I'm going to lose the apartment. He's going to kick me out like Claudia. I came here without speaking the language. With a little baby, you speak the language, you don't have a kid. It's like, you should get another job or something else. Even so, she was so good at the front desk. My daughter used to do three jobs at the front desk, maybe four. Now we have four people at the front desk. She used to cover everything. Very efficient, very good and very good with the clients. And I wanted to give her the job back, but I wanted her to ask me to beg me for the job. So she did and I hire her. Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

What did she say? She learned from the best. Clearly not.

[Anastasia Soare]

You are. You are very good in what you do. But we have rules here. I'm not your mother. When you come to work, number one, number two, you. I'm going to be harder on you than all the other employees because I will set an example. Everybody will think, well, she's so tough with her daughter. Imagine what she will say to me. So yeah, she came back, she was perfect.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Never late again.

[Anastasia Soare]

Today to these days, I now I have to reverse and say, I think it's time for you to take a vacation. I mean, until last year she never took vacation. And yeah, she works, she loves to work. My daughter is a workaholic, but she loves what she does. So it's the best thing. You have to have a purpose in life. And if you are able to do that, you will be the happiest person Person.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

We often say money without meaning is just paper.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And so it sounds like you both have found significant meaning during that process. What have you learned about working with family? What would you suggest to other people about working with their child or another family member?

[Anastasia Soare]

You really have to have strict rules with the kid because, number one, other people will feel like if you give different treatment to your kid, they will feel. Feel well, it's her daughter. I'm sure my daughter worked twice as hard. Everybody else in her position just to prove that she earned that. I remember we had an interview together, and somebody asked her, do you feel like you are an imposter because your mother is the owner?

[Nicole Lapin]

No way.

[Anastasia Soare]

I work twice as hard as everybody else.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And when you started your journey, you were married.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yes.

[Anastasia Soare]

And you're divorced after four years. We got divorced because my husband couldn't adjust and he went back to Romania.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

We have another podcast on our network where there was an interview that a founder said, there's an advantage to being unmarried in business. Do you think that's true? You have more time, less distraction?

[Anastasia Soare]

Absolutely. Unfortunately. I wish now at this time in my life, I wish I had more kids. I wish my husband. We came here to build something. I wish we were together and he could help me to build this company probably sooner than I did. And maybe we could have more kids, but it didn't work that way. So being not married is not the answer. At the end of the day, I think if you have a husband that could help you and support you, you are definitely a winner. So in business, to doing. Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

What's the bigger advantage? Having a partner.

[Anastasia Soare]

Well, you could do twice as many things. I mean, I am partnered with my daughter, but imagine if my husband was working with us. We'll have three people, will be three people that could do even more. You know, it's a lot to do in the company, so everybody will have a different role.

[Nicole Lapin]

Hold onto your wallets. Money rehab will be right back. And now for some more money rehab.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

It sounds like you rely a lot on your daughter and you would potentially rely on a spouse if you had one. Is it hard for you to trust outsiders?

[Anastasia Soare]

No. I have great people. You can reach greatness by yourself. You have to have people that you trust and people that will work as hard as you do.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

From 97 to 2018, you bootstrapped.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And then you took on some private equity with tpg.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

You came to this country without knowing how to write a check. How did you figure out how to take on private equity?

[Anastasia Soare]

So I hired a company that evaluated the business and at that time we had incredible margin. The business was doing incredible. We wanted just to expand internationally because I was so immersed in doing eyebrows and working here was very difficult for me to expand internationally. And I didn't have the expertise because it's a totally different way of doing business when you go in every single country, different language, different rules, different financial rules. So I wanted to get the partner to help me to do that expansion. Asia, the same. And Latin America.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

What was the partner?

[Anastasia Soare]

Tpg. So I hire a company and they evaluated the business like a banker. A banker, yes. So we realized that the company was evaluated at 3 billions a lot of valuation.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Did you think when you saw that?

[Anastasia Soare]

I couldn't believe it because I never, you know, I never had investors. I never sat down and oh, let me see how much my company is worth. I never cared for that.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

What did you think it would come back at? Approximately?

[Anastasia Soare]

I never thought that I would sell the company. So it didn't matter to me. I wanted just to make amazing products, innovation and to make the customer happy. That was our goal. You know, we wanted really to offer things that people didn't even know exist or products that are so high quality. That was our goal.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So if you didn't want to sell, why did you decide to take on outside capital?

[Anastasia Soare]

Because I wanted to expand internationally. So we found we couldn't sell to a strategic because the evaluation was too high. I thought that strategic will be good only because they already have an infrastructure, they know operation. So that was probably ideal for me. But like one of the makeup companies. Yes, strategics, yes. And then we partner with tpg.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And what would you suggest to other entrepreneurs thinking about taking on private equity?

[Anastasia Soare]

Well, private equity depends. What do you want? You see, I didn't know at that time because I didn't know what private equity was or what they're. I mean, I would ask exactly what I want. I want help with hr. I want. We didn't have a cfo, believe it or not. So I needed a cfo. I needed a lot of people, E commerce. I needed people in very important position and as well to help me to expand internationally. And a company that is a private equity is super smart. I mean people are very smart, but they. I personally don't think they have operational experience. So I think that is the challenge that you have with private equity equity. They will give you the funds, but you have to find people that will help you operational.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

But in some cases they'll try to cut to Make a profit. They'll try to cut areas of the business. And I think some founders got really nervous about that. Did you feel like you lost some of the control over the operations?

[Anastasia Soare]

No, no, I didn't. But again, I think everybody that wants to get private equity or strategic, I think they need to understand before they will make a decision what exactly they want. You know, they have to do their homework.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Yeah. And what would you go back and tell yourself? Would you do it again? And what do you think you would have done differently?

[Anastasia Soare]

I will sell the company to a strategic one was worth 1 billion, not 3 billion. So way earlier. But at that time I didn't think I wanted to. You know, we were like so hot the Instagram. We're on social media, the hottest brand. I never thought of getting an investor or selling.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

You were the hottest for sure. Maybe the first, if not one of the first to really explode on Instagram.

[Anastasia Soare]

18 million followers, the first beauty brand on Instagram. Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And you grew a lot through user generated content. People were posting. All this grew to. I think you're at 18 million followers.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yes.

[Anastasia Soare]

Now a little more than 18.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Yes, sorry. At least 18 million. Creating a community on social is so important for budding entrepreneurs. Is there something that you learn there about really creating an engaged audience?

[Anastasia Soare]

I mean, when we started in 2012 and of course give a hundred percent credit to my daughter. She was the mastermind behind the Instagram. They were not influencer. We kind of help each other with the people that we thought they have a talent. We start sending them products and they will post will repost the camera on the iPhone. Wasn't that great. We start discovering the ring light and then the Sony 6 camera to get the better pictures. So we help each other to grow and the influencer to become really big today. I think you have such a wide number one, the algorithm Instagram change. So everything changed. But you have so much more. You have TikTok. You have so many other platforms that of course will spread your way of influencing and capturing more people that you want to capture.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And what did you learn about owning that customer? Because I think some people worry that the platform owns the person.

[Anastasia Soare]

When we started was totally very authentic. Nobody was paid. We kind of build a community that everybody loved makeup. You know, everybody go there and they start doing makeup. And I remember in 2012, they barely kind of knew how to a mother of two in her closet. After she put the kids to sleep. She started applying makeup and talk about. And then you see the progression. She became more skilled, better and better every day. So we kind of organically grew together.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Today.

[Nicole Lapin]

It's.

[Anastasia Soare]

You have to pay to play. So it's a different game right now.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

It sounds like regardless of the valuation in the billions and the millions of followers, you are a worker. Do you work the same now that you did when you first started?

[Anastasia Soare]

I work like I can pay my rent next month. Okay. I feel that I do. I work exactly. Nothing has changed with me and my daughter. We work exactly the same.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

No matter what's in your bank account.

[Anastasia Soare]

Now, I think we kind of ignore. I don't even think about you. You talk about. And then I'm thinking, oh, yeah. But I don't. It's not like I don't pay attention. Of course I like my clothes. Of course I like my house or beautiful things that I work for it and I bought it. Okay. But that's not everything. It's my passion and that power and purpose to wake up every morning and do the things that I love. To me, that's. That's what. Worth more than any money that I have in the bank account.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Priceless.

[Anastasia Soare]

Priceless.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

I would love to play a game.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

If you don't mind. Of course. Bullish or bearish on different trends in the beauty world.

[Anastasia Soare]

Okay.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So if you're into it, you're bullish and if you hate it, you're bearish. Okay. Ready?

[Anastasia Soare]

Yeah. Okay.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

For brows, bleached eyebrows.

[Anastasia Soare]

I don't like it.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Bearish.

[Anastasia Soare]

Bearish. But hold on. You could do bleach eyebrow. Just one shade lighter. One shade lighter. That could. That's what? No, it's bleach. Because if you have dark eyebrow, like I am a brunette. Okay. My eyebrow is black. So because I am blonde, sometimes I bleach one shade lighter. I put the. When I do my hair, I put a little bit of bleach on my eyebrows, but I take it immediately out and I put some cream because the bleach still works. Otherwise I will end up being like my hair, it doesn't look good.

[Nicole Lapin]

Okay.

[Anastasia Soare]

So you could do that. So I don't know how I could.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Answer your bull ish.

[Anastasia Soare]

Bull ish.

[Nicole Lapin]

Okay.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Laminated eyebrows with the treatment. Yeah, I have that.

[Anastasia Soare]

I don't like that. I will tell you why. Because our eyebrows hair has to curl and move on a side little bit. That gives. Covers the hair and gives you a beautiful arch. If you laminate it, it's going to stay straight. And the eyebrow, I don't know. I'm personally, I'm not a big fan. If you Use the Brow freeze Wax. You could still create that heaviness and gives you a fuller eyebrows. But is not completely straight. But if you like it, how do you like it?

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So you're bearish?

[Anastasia Soare]

I'm bearish. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

I really like laminated straight up. But now I'm questioning my life choices.

[Anastasia Soare]

Look, at the end of the day, you should do whatever you like for yourself.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

But really listen to you. Okay. Soap brows.

[Anastasia Soare]

So soap brows. The reason why I created Brow freeze wax was because was the trend with the soap brow everywhere during COVID Everybody, everybody wanted sobra. So they will take water with the spoolie and mix into the soap and put it. So for a second the eyebrow look good laminated. Once the water will evaporate, the soap will not hold on and will kind of give you little. I should say little white cast flakes. Yes. So that's why I created the Brow Freeze Wax. The look was great, but it didn't work at the end. After a few hours was performing when you applied.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

So still bullish. So you like the look?

[Anastasia Soare]

I mean bullish, but the look. The first initial look. Yes, but not after five minutes or 10 minutes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And 90s thin.

[Anastasia Soare]

That's definitely a no big bear. Totally.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

I feel so lucky to be learning about eyebrows from you. Christy Yamaguchi taught me how to ice skate. And so now the Queen is teaching me.

[Anastasia Soare]

So I look. Speaking of that, in the 90s, everybody wanted to have Pamela Anderson eyebrows. And I used to beg them or I will never. I would say I'm sorry, this is not the service I could offer you. I can't do that. I would refuse taking their money because I knew that the eyebrow doesn't grow. And you look at Pamela Anderson. I think she's so gorgeous. Her skin is beautiful. Gorgeous cheeks, beautiful. But the eyebrows. It's so thin. I wish she will have thicker eyebrows. Will change completely her look. She will look so young. She looks already so young and beautiful. But I think a thicker eyebrow will be amazing on her.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Brook Shields had it right from the beginning.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Botox.

[Anastasia Soare]

I used to love Botox. I haven't done it in a long time. Cuz I. I don't know. I don't like it anymore. I don't like the fillers anymore and the Botox. But if I will have a frowning area here, I will do it. Maybe. But I try to do it at least.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Yeah.

[Anastasia Soare]

Like here I have wrinkles. I don't care. I don't want Botox. Because changes like I cannot even laugh or.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Yeah, I feel like we were breaking up with filler and Botox.

[Anastasia Soare]

Don't you think?

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Yes. So bearish. How about dark lip liner and light lip gloss? Like in the 90s?

[Anastasia Soare]

Like in the 90s. Well, if you do the lip liner dark and you blend that lip liner. Why not? Okay. Everything works.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

What's a skincare practice that you think everybody should be doing now?

[Anastasia Soare]

First of all, you need to take your makeup at night. Don't go to bed with makeup on. And especially mascara.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

When I was in my 20s.

[Anastasia Soare]

That is very important. Second, I love SkinCeuticals and I love their vitamin C and so many other products from that brand. And I like as well some other research biologique and so many other brands. And I like to alternate. I don't use all the time one, but the vitamin I use only from skinceutical.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Well, when I lost everything in the fire, the only things that I remembered were my pencil, my medium color, because I didn't know any of my colors. And my soft glam palette isn't the best. The best.

[Anastasia Soare]

That's.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

The brush is the best. So those were the first things that I replaced.

[Anastasia Soare]

Thank you. Well, we'll send you some products.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Thank you.

[Anastasia Soare]

To have it.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

We end all of our episodes by asking for a tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. As you know. But I wanted to ask you, you know, something personal for me, if you have advice. You lost your home in the Northridge quake.

[Anastasia Soare]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

At what point do you stop thinking about it? Every day. I've struggled to move on, and, you know, I'd love any advice for somebody who's yourself.

[Anastasia Soare]

It wasn't easy, you know, after that earthquake, when I lost the home, I was ready to move back to Romania. I remember how devastating is because an earthquake could be any time. And I couldn't sleep for a long time, probably a year. And you had a baby. I cannot even believe what you went through, but I believe. Find something else to think that is positive. Did you find a new house? Yes. Don't put energy on what it was because anyway, you cannot change it. So what's the point? This is how I live my life. I'm not looking back. Because you know what? I will think for a moment. I will learn something from and I will close that. Write a letter, by the way. Write a letter. Start the candle. Write a letter and say everything you want to. It's like I'm angry because I lost that, and I. I want to release myself from this, and I don't ever want to think again. And burn it. Put it in whatever fireplace.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Take back the power from the fire.

[Anastasia Soare]

Take back the power. Yes, from the fire and just move on. And don't think of what it was because you can't change that. It's so trouble. Dramatic, though. Thank you.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

At what point did you feel like you stopped thinking about it? Did it take? You said a year, but, yeah, I.

[Anastasia Soare]

Was so busy with work that I immersed myself in work. And I will not think about it, but I lost everything I brought from Romania. Seriously. A box that was maybe nine feet by. By six and by six. Filled with china, with crystal, with everything. I couldn't take one, thank God. I took my passports and I had some cash and that's it. The bag. And my mom and my daughter, because my mom just visited me. But it was. It is very traumatic.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

Are you scared of earthquakes now?

[Anastasia Soare]

I am. But, you know, I always believe when it's your time, it's your time. I can't live in fear. Do you know what I mean?

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

I think I still have a lot to learn, so it's not my time because we're here to learn and I'm still learning.

[Anastasia Soare]

Absolutely. Be positive. Live a life that you could enjoy every day. You have a husband, you have a baby. I mean, what do you want?

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

And amazing eyebrows.

[Adriana Adams]

Literally.

[Interviewer (possibly Nicole Lapin or a co-host)]

What more do I need?

[Anastasia Soare]

Exactly.

[Nicole Lapin]

Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lapin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money Rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, money [e-mail] to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one on one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram at Money News and TikTok MoneyNews Network for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.