Who Gets Custody of the Instagram? The Money Trail of Influencer Divorces with Jackie Combs

Summary

Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin Episode: Who Gets Custody of the Instagram? The Money Trail of Influencer Divorces with Jackie Combs Release Date: June 19, 2025

In this illuminating episode of Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin, host Nicole Lapin engages in a comprehensive discussion with Jackie Combs, a renowned celebrity divorce attorney. Together, they delve into the intricate financial dynamics of influencer divorces, unpacking the unique challenges faced by digital creators when personal relationships and professional brands intersect. This detailed summary captures the essence of their conversation, highlighting key insights, actionable advice, and expert perspectives on managing finances in the age of social media.

---

1. The Rise of Influencer Divorces

Nicole opens the conversation by highlighting the growing trend of divorces among influencer couples and how these separations uniquely impact their digital brands and monetized content.

Nicole Lapin [01:27]:

"You know those influencer couples whose whole brand is just their relationship? They probably caption everything, hashtag couple schools, and maybe even have a shared handle like happily ever handlers or whatever. But if they get divorced, who gets the brand deals?"

This sets the stage for understanding how intertwined personal relationships and professional ventures can complicate divorce proceedings for influencers.

2. The Necessity of Prenups for Content Creators

Jackie Combs emphasizes the critical importance of prenups for influencers, framing them as essential tools for protecting individual brands and intellectual property.

Jackie Combs [04:03]:

"The biggest financial mistake you see content creators make is not getting a prenup. Influencers need to think of themselves as businesses. Every video, every script is intellectual property that can be monetized. Protecting yourself as a business is paramount."

Combs advocates for influencers to approach their relationships with the same financial foresight they apply to their brands, ensuring clear boundaries and protections are in place from the onset.

3. Understanding Community and Separate Property

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around California's community property laws and how they apply to influencer assets during marriage and divorce.

Jackie Combs [06:00]:

"In California, all assets acquired during marriage are community property unless they come from separate property sources. For content creators, this means intellectual property and revenue streams created before marriage remain separate, while those developed during marriage are shared."

This distinction is crucial for influencers to understand how their pre-existing and newly developed digital assets will be treated legally.

4. Valuing Digital Empires

Determining the value of a growing brand is a complex task. Jackie explains the process of appraising an influencer's digital assets beyond mere follower counts.

Jackie Combs [09:36]:

"You would have a business appraiser look at the entire brand—the individual, the business, all intellectual property, trademarks, contracts, and revenue streams. It's more comprehensive than just evaluating social media following."

This comprehensive valuation ensures a fair division of assets based on actual business value rather than superficial metrics.

5. Protecting Privacy and Public Image

The conversation shifts to the importance of maintaining privacy during and after a divorce, especially for public figures whose personal lives are under constant scrutiny.

Jackie Combs [12:13]:

"Privacy is often overlooked. Content creators share so much of their lives online, but they may not want that exposure during a divorce. Confidentiality provisions in prenups can prevent monetizing personal relationship details."

Combs highlights strategies to keep personal disputes out of the public eye, safeguarding both the individuals' reputations and their financial interests.

6. Strategies for Dividing Shared Assets

When it comes to tangible shared assets like homes, cars, and art, Jackie provides practical advice on equitable division.

Jackie Combs [18:19]:

"Clothing typically goes to the party who wears it, while art and cars are appraised and either divided based on interest or sold. For luxury assets tied to a client's brand, specialized appraisal and division strategies are essential."

This section underscores the importance of professional appraisals and clear agreements to avoid conflicts over high-value items.

7. Establishing Financial Boundaries in Relationships

Jackie and Nicole discuss the broader implications of financial transparency and boundary-setting in all relationships, not just marriages.

Jackie Combs [22:11]:

"Couples should discuss finances early on. Understanding spending habits, debt, and financial values can prevent future conflicts and ensure both partners are aligned financially."

Early and honest conversations about money are presented as foundational to healthy and sustainable relationships.

8. Guiding Children on Prenups

For parents who wish to protect family businesses or wealth, Jackie offers advice on discussing prenups with their children without overstepping.

Jackie Combs [23:31]:

"It's crucial to educate children about money and relationships. A conversation can be as simple as, 'I want to make sure your inheritance is protected,' thereby normalizing prenups as standard financial planning."

This approach fosters financial literacy and empowers the next generation to make informed decisions regarding their personal and professional lives.

9. Navigating the Costs of Prenups and Divorces

Addressing the financial barriers to obtaining prenups, Jackie provides solutions for those with varying budgets.

Jackie Combs [26:00]:

"Prenups can be expensive, but there are online platforms like HelloPrenup for more affordable options. However, it's essential to consult with an attorney to ensure the agreement meets state laws and personal needs."

This advice makes prenups accessible to a broader audience, ensuring more individuals can protect their financial interests regardless of income level.

10. Crafting Unique Prenup Clauses for Influencers

Jackie explores creative and enforceable clauses that can be included in prenups to address the specific needs of influencers.

Jackie Combs [30:27]:

"While clauses like mandatory date nights aren't enforceable, estate planning provisions can be effective. For example, ensuring certain assets are left to children or specifying life insurance allocations can protect both partners' interests."

This section highlights the balance between creative legal planning and the practical enforceability of prenup clauses.

11. Reframing Prenuptial Agreements

Jackie shares her personal perspective on prenups, advocating for their role in fostering transparency and financial security rather than signaling impending divorce.

Jackie Combs [33:07]:

"Prenups are not about planning for divorce; they're about setting up financial success in a relationship. They require full financial disclosure, facilitating honest conversations and informed decisions."

This reframing encourages individuals, especially women, to view prenups as empowering tools for financial agency within relationships.

12. Identifying Financial Red Flags Before Marriage

Concluding the episode, Jackie offers a crucial tip for listeners: recognize and address financial red flags early in relationships.

Jackie Combs [35:30]:

"Lack of financial transparency is a major red flag. If your partner is unwilling to share financial details or discuss their financial habits, it's a sign to re-evaluate the relationship."

This advice underscores the importance of financial openness as a cornerstone of healthy and trustworthy partnerships.

---

Key Takeaways

• Prenups/Postnups are Essential: Especially for influencers, prenups protect individual brands and intellectual property, ensuring fair division of digital assets.

• Understand Property Laws: Knowledge of community versus separate property is crucial in states like California to navigate asset division effectively.

• Value Beyond Followers: Professional appraisals considering all aspects of the brand provide a realistic valuation of an influencer's digital empire.

• Protect Privacy: Confidentiality clauses in prenups help maintain personal privacy and protect public image during divorces.

• Early Financial Conversations: Open discussions about finances early in a relationship prevent future conflicts and ensure financial alignment.

• Accessible Prenup Solutions: Affordable online prenup platforms, coupled with legal consultations, make financial protection accessible to more individuals.

• Empower Financial Agency: Prenups can empower individuals, particularly women, by ensuring financial security and independence within relationships.

• Identify Red Flags: Financial transparency is a critical indicator of relationship health; lack thereof should prompt serious consideration.

---

This episode serves as a vital resource for influencers, content creators, and anyone navigating the financial complexities of modern relationships. Jackie Combs provides actionable strategies and expert insights that empower listeners to safeguard their financial futures while maintaining healthy personal relationships.

Transcript

[Nicole Lapin]

Okay, Money Rehabbers, I want to hook you up with some swag. If you're a fan of the pod, now is your chance to spread the love and get something for it. I'm giving away a Money News Network sweatshirt of your choosing. And if you haven't checked out our merch, you are missing out. Honestly, I think they are hilarious and so, so cute. We have a bullish sweatshirt. We have and I told you so Crypto bro sweatshirt, A money school sweatshirt, an Ebitda sweatshirt. That's eba. Duh duh. The ones who get it, get it in order to be entered to win. It is super duper easy. No purchase necessary. Here's how it works. Step one, rate and review the show wherever you're listening. And please be specific.

[Jackie Combs]

I really want to hear what you.

[Nicole Lapin]

Like so I can do more of that. Step two, take a screenshot of your review. And step three, email that screenshot to hellooneynewsnetwork.com with giveaway in the subject line. And that is it. You're entered.

[Jackie Combs]

Easy peasy.

[Nicole Lapin]

And to find out if you've won, you've got to be following me on Instagram at Nicole Lapin. That's where I'll be announcing the winners. And this is my little way of saying thank you for listening, sharing, and being part of the money rehab community. You truly make this show what it is, and I so appreciate you and good luck. This giveaway is open to U.S. residents 18 and older.

[Jackie Combs]

Voidware prohibited.

[Nicole Lapin]

One entry per person. Entries must be received by July 1, 2025.

[Jackie Combs]

I'm Nicole Lapin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money Rehab.

Rehab.

[Nicole Lapin]

You know those influencer couples whose whole brand is just their relationship? They probably caption everything, hashtag couple schools, and maybe even have a shared handle like happily ever handlers or whatever if they get divorced. Here's my question, though. Who gets the brand deals? This question came up when influencers Kat and Mike Stickler of the handle Mike and cat on YouTube and TikTok filed for divorce. Now, at the time, the now exes had 4 million followers across the channels. The judge awarded Kat the TikTok and Mike the YouTube. Kat changed the TikTok handle from Mike and Kat to Cat Stickler and now has over 10 million followers. The YouTube channel, that's the one that Mike got, is now defunct. So this isn't a theoretical question. This is actually a legal question and one that my guest today is the perfect person to answer. Today I'm talking to Jackie Combs, celebrity divorce attorney to the stars, the influencers, and the very complicated. Jackie has become the go to lawyer when a power couple calls it quits. Like Chris Appleton, who married and then quickly divorced Lucas Gage last year, Emily Ratajkowski, and more. Today, we are pulling back the curtain on a world that most of us only get a glimpse at through tabloid headlines and TikTok tea celebrity divorces. But this isn't about gossip. This is about money and most importantly, what you can learn from the financial missteps of the rich, famous, and extremely online. Today, Jackie and I talk about brand prenups, postnups, digital empires built on love and likes, and how they get divided when the relationship gets unfollowed. Sorry, I had to. And trust me, whether you're managing a monetized YouTube channel with your partner or just deciding whether to split rent or a mortgage, the financial lessons in this conversation are for everyone.

[Jackie Combs]

Jackie Combs, welcome to Money Rehab.

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Nicole, you are really the go to divorce attorney for celebrities and creatives. And that's changed lately to include the new influencer category. Historically, in the gossip columns, we've seen celebrity breakups, meaning between actors or actresses. But this new Hollywood is influencers, right Celebration. Social media stars, TikTok stars. These are people whose net worths are tied to algorithms and audience retention and, you know, social media followers. What's the biggest financial mistake you see content creators make when they're looking at prenups or starting to even think about.

That, not getting a prenup? Right, because content creators really need to think of themselves as businesses. They are brands. And every video that they put out or every script that they write, that's all intellectual property that can be monetized, licensed, and used. And so you really have to start thinking of yourself as a business and protect yourself as a business.

And when you have a business, oftentimes as an influencer, you build that digital empire with your partner doing joint deals, brand deals, joint content, even shared followers or joint accounts. How do you untangle all of that in a divorce? I mean, like, who gets the TikTok account?

Totally depends. So it depends on whether the parties have a prenup, whether they have a postnap, then you're going to treat the brand like a business. Any other business, are they going to stay in business together or are they going to separate? And if they're going to separate, who should the business go to? Who should receive the trademarks, who should receive the IP and then you look at the monetization from those trademarks and IP and maybe you're going to be dividing that, those income streams, because if they were created during marriage or if somebody's going to continue to work on the brand, I'm going to refer to it as a brand. After they separate, maybe they should get a little bit more of the income that later comes in.

So what's typical in a brand prenup? So if two influencers get married, how do you advise them to separate their personal brands from their marital assets? And then what's looked at as pre marriage assets or not? So if I, if I come into a marriage with a certain number of followers, do I only split what's gained after marriage?

So we're not going to look at the follower count per se, because those aren't really assets. Those are your fan base. What you're going to look at is the deals that you made during marriage. So if you are going into a marriage as a influencer or as a content creator, you are definitely going to want a prenup that is going to protect your intellectual property, because that's really what we're talking about. You're monetizing the IP and you want to protect your endorsement deals, let's say, that are resulting from your brand and image and the trademarks that you create. So California, for example, is a community property state. That means presumptively, all assets acquired during marriage are community property unless they derive from a separate property source, separate property, or your assets acquired prior to marriage and those assets that derive during the marriage as a result of your separate property. So using that in context, if you have a Bank account with $200,000 in it prior to your prior to marriage, that's your separate property. And if it grows during marriage to 300,000 just by virtue of the market fluctuations and appreciation, that's all your separate property. Or if you own a home before marriage and then you, you sell that home during your marriage and buy a new home, that home is presumptively your separate property. If you have not contrib any additional community funds to the acquisition of the house. Now, using that in context of content creators, all the intellectual property you've created prior to marriage, all the revenue streams that you're receiving as a result of your brand and your image and your likeness, that is all your separate property. The deals that you would then enter into during your marriage would be community property unless you have an agreement that says they aren't.

So if I'm entering a Marriage. Let's say I have a million followers and I go to you and I say, jackie, help me come up with a prenup that protects me in this ever evolving age of content.

Yes.

What would you tell me to do as far as writing clauses about videos, merch lines? You know, I don't even know AI licensing.

Right.

What are you suggesting to clients to start thinking about writing into their prenups?

I would say keep all of your intellectual property separate and in the event of a divorce, that. That basically goes to you. Now there's, there's one thing to say during the marriage. If you want to share the income that's attributable to those deals during marriage, that's one thing. But then ensuring that in the event of a divorce, all of that goes to you.

And what about future profits? If. How do you even parse that out? So if my account grew and I had brand deals while I was married, but now my brand deals are much more after I'm getting divorced because of that growth, are they entitled to a.

Portion of that without a prenup? Let's say if you entered into the agreement during marriage, your spouse would see a portion of that. However, if you have to continue to do work in order to receive that endorsement deal by virtue of, let's say you have to show up to an event five times a year, or you have to be photographed on X number of magazines or whatever it is, a portion of that would be your separate property because you are continuing to do work after separation.

How do you even value going into a prenup discussion if you're a growing brand? You know, let's say I'm an influencer with a million followers, but I'm still growing. And so, you know, or maybe I have a niche audience that's really, really valuable. Are there social media appraisers? Like, does that even exist? Something like that where I can value it appropriately.

So you would have a business appraiser and you would look again, treat. It's more than just the social media because that's the platform that's used. What you're going to look at is the brand, the individual, the business, all the intellectual property that derives from the business, all the trademarks that are owned. You're going to look at all the different contracts that are in place that result in revenue streams and the income that's coming in, and that's what's going to be valued.

And let's say I started a social media account with my future spouse and I'm going to asking about a prenup. What protections would you suggest to put in place if, God forbid, we got divorced and we need to decide what happens to the monetized YouTube channel or whatever it is?

So again, I would say if, if we want to share the income during marriage, that's one thing, but after separation, maybe the revenue that's derived from the content created during marriage is shared or it's separate, but ensuring that you receive the channel or these social media platforms that you came into the marriage with or that you created during marriage to ensure that those go to you after you separate.

So you have to kind of think about that in advance. Yeah, but you would want to happen to the channel.

Exactly. And you also want to take a look at, like, what's the trajectory of your, of you creating content? Right. Are you planning to do this for 10 years? You planning to do this for 20 years? Is this going to turn into a different line or profession? Right. Are you going to pivot and what does that look like? And are you going to want to share that with your spouse or you're going to want to keep things separate? Oof.

It's so much. I mean, are there areas of a prenup that you feel like are brand new in this social media influencer space that people aren't focusing enough on when they're thinking about prenups?

[Nicole Lapin]

Hold onto your wallets.

[Jackie Combs]

Money rehab will be right back. And now for some more money rehab. Are there areas of a prenup that you feel like are brand new in this social media influencer space that people aren't focusing enough on when they're thinking about prenups?

Well, I think one of the things that they're probably not thinking about is like, is privacy. Right. Because so many content creators share so much of their life and they may not want to share that during the marriage. Right. So you, you may want some separation of what you're sharing. And what I see a lot of times in prenups are there are confidentiality provisions. Right. That you may not be able to monetize by writing a book about your relationship, or you might not be able to monetize, you know, a script regarding your relationship, and people don't really realize that. Or, you know, you may have provisions where you're not going to do reality television. Well, a content creator or any other individual may want to go on reality TV later down the road, and that would prevent them from doing it.

Interesting. I mean, yeah, I guess that some of that can be in a postnap. Too. We've always heard that postnaps are a bad sign. Like if you're thinking about a postnap, things are already on the outs. But what are you seeing in postnups about privacy? Whether it's writing a book or going on social media, or even potentially crafting what the breakup message looks like to the public.

So in a postnup, sometimes, and to your point, they're not bad, right? Sometimes people can't get the prenups done in time before the wedding, so we end up doing a post nuptial agreement. Or sometimes there's an event in a person's marriage that necessitates a financial discussion in order to stay in the marriage. And what I mean by that is, you know, sometimes there might be infidelity or there may be a huge exit and your marriage may already be on the rocks, but you really want to stay in for the children or for whatever other reason. But you need financial separation or surety in the in to ensure that you're going to stay in. And when that happens, you see more, you know, planning for the future, but also making sure that you are feel financially secure to stay in.

Are there even provisions about what you say about a potential breakup in advance?

Not really. But you may have a provision that says no negative comments. Right? You're not going to talk about your partner in a derogatory way. When we do come up with joint statements, it's usually during the dissolution proceeding and the publicist is involved or both parties, publicists are involved. But you know, I don't think that they're going to predetermine that necessarily in, in a prenup or postnup. I haven't seen one yet.

There's also, you know, this X factor of a potential scandal, right? I mean, a lot of influencers, net worths are in flux because one viral scandal or moment or controversy, something like that could affect their current future earning potential. How do you take that into account when thinking about a prenup or a post op?

So in a prenup or postnip, that goes in with the confidentiality provision, right, to ensure that you're not saying anything negative. But what also you want to look at is fluctuating incomes. And that is for any professional, whether you're a content creator, entertainer or otherwise, with that, you want to take a look at a, what the estate is going to be, whether you want to keep assets separate, whether you want to have things joint, and also look at support limitations and waivers. So, you know, I may have A client who's making $10 million a year now and wants to have a limitation on support that they may pay their spouse in the future. And then at the time of divorce, you know, things could be switched. So you to take a look at again, what the trajectory of your career is, where you're going to be in, you know, 15 years and ensure that you have a team in place that is making sure that you're keeping your financial nest egg.

And are there financial risks of a divorce going public? I mean, that could potentially, depending on what comes out, hurt somebody's career, their future deals, how do you protect clients from potential financial fallout of that?

So it's really important for me with my clients who are public figures, to keep everything out of the press. And we try not to go to court. We try to settle everything before anything is filed with the court or before having to go to court. And we will mediate, we will hire private judges, we will try to keep everything out of the public system so that it is not publicized and so that it is not in every, you know, gossip column. And that's really important because again, going through a divorce is, is already difficult enough and then doing it on a public scale where things are scrutinized and misinterpreted and create these stories that may not be true. And it's really difficult in particular when there are children involved. So it's really important that when we do file anything that we know is going to be public to ensure that it's all positive, you know, because if your children are going to see these public filings in 10 years, you know, they, they may read it and you don't want them to be upset with mom or dad. You want it to be all positive. And at the end of the day it's really important to, to maintain credibility in what you're saying and to keep things nice.

Yes, it totally in theory, that's delightful in practice, I mean, you worked with some very headline grabby names. You don't have to say them. So without naming names for sure, what's the most shocking financial clause that you've seen in a celeb prenup?

Hmm. You know, not so much shocking in a celeb prenup, but I have seen infidelity clauses which in California are non enforceable because they're against public policy. And what that means is basically promotive of divorce. But then again, I've also seen the confidentiality provisions. And this is typically with a lot of high net worth families who are having their Kids sign prenups where they may be in family businesses and they don't want, you know, the spouse coming into the relationship later, writing a tell all book or a memoir or going on housewives. So they want to ensure that though, you know, the family and the brand is protected.

And then we saw, you know, JLO and Ben benefiting their way through a bunch of crazy stuff in the headlines. Multimillion dollar real estate breakup. Yeah, that was one of the big ones that was out there. What are some of the rules when it comes to shared homes post divorce, especially when the value of that asset presumably is changing.

Yeah. So typically in a divorce agreement, you're going to have mechanisms in place for the sale of the house. And what that means is that you guys are going to both agree on the listing agent, the sale price, any counter offers reducing the sales price if it's been listed on the market for X months or and you haven't received any offers. And in the event you don't agree, you have recourse. Either you're going to go to the mediator or you can go to court to make the decision. So if one partner is basically stalling and saying, hey, you know, the house has been sitting for six months, we've gotten zero offers, we need to lower the listing price. And the other partner saying, nope, I don't want to do that because I want to ensure that I get X dollars out of this sale. Then there's recourse because you can go to court.

Is joining, is jointly owning a property while you're not married yet ever a good idea or does it always end up messy? Isn't that what JLO invented? I couldn't keep up.

No, I think they ended up buying after they got married. But now the house has been on a, on the market for like a year and I think they just, you know, dropped it by, dropped the listing price by 8 million. So hopefully it sells. But joining owning a property, it's on sale. Exactly. It's on sale only for $60 million only, you know, but owning a house before marriage, I don't think there's a problem with that. As long as you have an agreement in place that defines what's going to happen if you break up. So that could look like what's referred to as a cohabitation agreement. Or you could have, let's say an LLC operating agreement if you're going to own the, the property as in an llc. And like I said, you're going to have mechanisms in case you guys break up. So, okay, if we break up within 30 days, one partner is going to move out and then you're going to list the property. Within 60 days, you're going to agree to the listing agent and or one party is going to have the first right of refusal to purchase the property at an appraised value by a joint appraiser.

It's not just the property, though. For celebrities and uber wealthy people, real estate is just one component of investors, an overall net worth equation, obviously. So how do you think about splitting some of the other luxury assets like designer clothes, cars, art, especially when all of that has become part of a client's brand image?

Great question. So clothing or other items of personal adornment are different than, let's say a car collection or an art collection where you would get that appraised? Typically clothing, unless it's, you know, on display in the Met, is going to go to the party who wears it. With respect to art or cars, you're going to have them appraised or you're going to have them appraised and then you're going to divide them based on who wants one or you're going to sell them.

So let's talk strategies that apply to everyone. Jackie, Whether you have 25 followers, $25 million in your line of work, identifying with what's yours, mine and ours really is everything. I mean, those are the fundamentals for, you know, whether you have a following or not. How early should couples start talking about financial boundaries? What does a conversation, a healthy conversation about that look like?

So couples should start talking early on in their relationship. I find that more couples, and you've talked about this, are sexually intimate before they're willing to be financially intimate. And I think there's a problem with this. I think that couples really need to know if they're financially aligned to know if they're going to be in the relationship in the long run. And the because you may not want to go to bed with somebody if you don't agree with their spending habits or if you knew that they were a million dollars in debt or if they didn't care about their credit scores. These are financial values that will impact you in your relationship. So what I would say is that couples should talk about it really early on and definitely before they move in together, you know, and how that conversation evolves during your relationship is a little different. You may not talk about 401ks on your first date. It's not really sexy, let's say. But you know, you can ask, how did you Treat finances when you were in college or, you know, how did you grow up? You know, different conversations where you can start seeing how your partner, you know, treats money and what their financial values are.

Amen.

Yeah.

And what about for parents? I mean, you talk about some parents who own a business might want their kids to have a prenup so that their family business is protected.

Yeah.

How do parents talk about prenups with their kid in a way that's not too invasive or nosy into what they actually end up doing?

So it's a really important conversation that all of us, whether your children are going to end up having a prenup or not, should have have. Teaching your children about money and understanding money in relationships and how it's going to impact your relationship is imperative. And I think that individuals, if they were educated more on finances and how that impacts their relationship, would make different decisions with who their partners are. And when parents have that conversation, it can be as simple as, hey, you know, I am so happy for you and your relationship, and I am, you know, I love you so much. I just want to make sure that your inheritance is protected. And that's okay, because in California, for example, your inheritance is your separate property. So you can enter into a prenup that essentially just codifies the law. So you're just, you know, dotting your eyes, crossing your T's, saying, we're going to follow the law. What's, you know, what I inherit or what was mine prior to marriage is mine. What we create during marriage is joint. And anything I create after marriage or earn after marriage is separate.

Can I make my daughter sign a prenup? Can I put that in a trust?

There, there. There are some estate planning provisions that can require your daughter to sign a prenup.

Interesting. And so when you say, codify what the law is, basically, you know, in California, it's community property. So again, like, stepping back, everybody has a prenup. It's what the state decides the. Correct. The reason that we're going through all of this is to just tailor it to what your specific situations might be.

Right. And also, you know, you have to think about when you get married, are you going to move states based on your spouse's career or for any other reason? And you may not like the laws in that state. So by protecting yourself up front, and, you know, it's not a. You're not forum shopping per se, but you're choosing to follow the law in the state that you get married or plan to have your life in, you you may like that better than moving somewhere else.

And how much does all this stuff cost, Jackie?

Oh, it depends. You mean for like a prenup or a divorce or both?

[Nicole Lapin]

All of it.

[Jackie Combs]

Prenups can cost tens of thousands of dollars. But there are, you know, for everyday person who can't afford that, there are online platforms that, in digital platforms that you can use, like, hello, prenup. My only recommendation is if you decide to use an online platform to get a prenup, just make sure that you consult with an attorney in your state. And what I always tell my clients is, let's have the deal points determined up front so we can eliminate the drafting and the back and forth or the later negotiations, and that will help lower costs.

I think that's really smart. I also had friends that just got divorced and they hired. You'll know what this is called. It was like a divorce coach or.

Yeah.

Somebody that they could talk to and. And vent about before they brought in the lawyer on billable hours. Is that something you suggest?

Really smart. Really smart. I think having a team, a support system in place, whether it's a therapist or a divorce coach or someone else, because the last thing you want to do is be venting to me about your spouse and my hourly rate in. In lieu of talking to a therapist.

I think it's smart to. Yeah. Come up with a checklist of what you want so you're not paying for figuring that out with a professional as you're trying to find your legal soulmate. I suppose, you know, you're probably interviewing a lot of different lawyers if you are going to create a prenup, but you haven't worked with a lawyer before. What are some of the types of questions that you should ask a lawyer when you're in that dating process of trying to find the right one to represent you?

Well, that's a great question. So, number one, I think it's important to know what their hourly rate is, how they charge. Two is what their legal philosophy is. Because, you know, some individual. Some lawyers really just like to litigate, get in there. And some like to mediate. I like to mediate. I like to try to resolve issues without going to court. I think it's more important for the client to have, you know, peace of mind and resolve their case sooner than later and without excess legal fees. Because the emotional toll that it takes litigating for years is really devastating, both personally and on the family. So it's really important to know the philosophy then. It's also important to understand what the strategy is, you know, where do you see my case? And you, and you don't want somebody who's just going to tell you, you know, it's all rainbows and butterflies. You want somebody who's going to be real with you. You may not like their advice all the time, but you know that they're being honest with you. And that's really important because you want honesty in your attorney client relationship for sure.

You mentioned this before, but I wanted to double click on it for a second that some clauses, I guess in California or perhaps in, in many states are illegal. So an infidelity clause. We've seen a lot of these headlines where celebrities have like a date night club clause or, you know, a cheating clause or, you know, we had Rebecca Bitcoin talking about her floozy clause where she says her husband, if she, if something happens to her, that her husband, new partner, can't get any of her.

[Nicole Lapin]

Money or something like that.

[Jackie Combs]

Where is the legal line for what you could put in Lucy Claus?

That's funny. So like I said, it's not illegal per se, but it is against public policy and therefore unenforceable. That's really where the line is. Right. What's enforceable and what's not. How are you going to contract your partner to going to a date night once a week? Like you would hope that you guys are going to do that irrespective of having a contract that's implying that in the event of your death and how the money is, you know where the money is going to go, you want to ensure that it goes to your children and not a future spouse. There are provisions in that you can put to protect that.

Okay, so no date night. You can put it in, but it's not going to really do anything. You could put it in some symbolic.

It's going to make you feel good. Exactly.

I know allegedly, like Mark Zuckerberg and Priscilla Chan had some sort of clause about that. Who knows, you know, and, and yeah, cute.

I guess.

So you could put whatever it is, whatever you want in there. Yes.

[Nicole Lapin]

Do the dishes.

[Jackie Combs]

But like a judge is not gonna.

No. I mean, no, because that's like indentured slavery.

[Nicole Lapin]

Right.

[Jackie Combs]

You can't, you can't, you know, uphold somebody to doing the dishes every night.

Gotcha. But are there any creative things that can be upheld that people could think about?

Yeah, I mean, I, I think the floozy clause, I love that is, is a good thing to think about in the estate planning provision. So in the event somebody, you know Passes away. You know, how the assets are going to be treated. Like, for example, all the community properties bequeathed to the surviving spouse. The house that the marital home is bequeathed to the surviving spouse. Maybe one spouse's separate property pays off the mortgage. There are things that you can do or that you can ensure that there's a certain amount of life insurance that is. Is left for you and then provisions in the future for children.

I mean, I went through a lot of this when I was getting married, and it's not fun, Jackie. I'm not gonna lie.

It's awful.

How do you reframe this?

Yeah, so it can. It can be really awful. And I'm sorry that that was your experience. But what I think individuals really need to think about is prenup. Prenups are not, you know, thinking about the end and planning for divorce. They are there to help set you up for financial success in your relationship. They require full transparency, full financial disclosures, which means you have to tell your. Your partner all of your assets, all of your debts and. And your income for the last couple years. You have to exchange tax returns. You know, you can ask for bank statements, and you're really putting all out there. So with that, you are able to have these conversations in your relationship and how you want to share your assets and income during your relationship that a lot of couples don't have until it's too late. And if they had had these conversations prior to getting married, they may have made different choices. Using an example, let's say, you know, you are marrying somebody who comes from extraordinary, you know, family. Well, well, they may just receive income or trust distributions each month, but that's their separate property. You're not building a community estate, for example, in California. And if you had a prenup, you might receive more than you would be entitled to under the law.

Just to clarify, it wasn't uncomfortable because we're having these conversations. I love these conversations. It was just kind of ick because you're thinking about your death. You're thinking, yeah, what will happen after your death?

[Nicole Lapin]

Up all this kind of stuff. And I think a lot of women.

[Jackie Combs]

In particular are nervous about prenups because they have this idea, which I try to debunk every chance I get that somebody's making me sign a prenup. Meanwhile, you know, obviously we're making more money, have more assets, going into relationships.

[Nicole Lapin]

Marrying later in life, all of these types of things.

[Jackie Combs]

How do you help women in particular reframe the idea of a prenup?

Well, we're Taught to have blinders on when we fall in love. I mean, that is the wedding industry, right? You're taught to be the bride, to have the big day, but what about after and, you know, happily ever after? And I think it's really important for women in particular to have financial agency in their relationship. That does not mean having access to an Amex. That means having an access to a bank account with cash in your name that if something happens, you know, you can walk out the door. And you've talked about this. Financial abuse and toxic financial relationships are. Are huge, and individuals really don't talk about it as much, I think, with their. With their friends. But it is a form of abuse that is so rampant and is very scary because, you know, individuals cannot leave their marriage without having any access to cash. And if you look at an example in the public, Erica Jane and Tom Girardi. And Tom Girardi was just, you know, convicted of fraud. And Erica Jane, for example, said, how could she leave? She didn't have anything other than AM and access to an Amex, and if she left, it was going to be cut off. So it's really important that women have cash, have financial agency, know what's going on in their marriage so that, you know, the world isn't ripped up from underneath them.

Absolutely. And again, keep in mind that you will have a prenup regardless of whether you have your own or not. Correct. So this is not a harbinger of bad things to come. It's a sign that you're able to.

Have adult conversations and you're taking control. Right. You're taking control of your financial destiny in your relationship. And I launched a platform, Love Richer, on this specific topic, really, to try to help individuals, and particularly women, start talking about finances early on in the relationship and how to have these difficult conversations because it is so important for individuals to have financial agency in the relationship.

I love it. Thank you for doing that, Jackie. We end all of our episodes by asking us for a tip that listeners.

[Nicole Lapin]

Can take straight to the bank.

[Jackie Combs]

What's one financial red flag that people.

[Nicole Lapin]

Should keep an eye out for before.

[Jackie Combs]

They say I do?

Lack of financial transparency. If your partner is unwilling to share their bank account with you or tell you how much is in the bank or tell you what they own, I would not walk down that aisle. I would have a very hard conversation with them and try to understand why they feel that it's appropriate not to share the intimate details of their finances with you before you guys, you know.

Set off, like, actually see it, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you should have full financial disclosure before you get married. Yeah. So, you know, sit together and. And go through your bank account and lay it all out there.

You know, when I got my. The login from my husband's fidelity account, I felt like that was the most intimate we've ever been.

Is it. Isn't it true? I would say the same, you know. Oh, honey. Okay, let's log in to your account. Okay. What's going on? It's. It is a different level of intimacy, for sure.

Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network.

[Nicole Lapin]

I'm your host, Nicole Lapin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavor. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money Rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions moneyrehaboneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one on one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram @moneynews and tiktokoneynewsnetwork for exclusive video content.

[Jackie Combs]

And lastly, thank you.

[Nicole Lapin]

No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening.

[Jackie Combs]

Listening.

[Nicole Lapin]

And for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.