April Bonus Episode: Eclipse

Summary

Morbid – April Bonus Episode: Eclipse
Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Release Date: April 24, 2026

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Episode Overview
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Ash and Alaina return with their signature blend of humor and horror for a deep-dive, unfiltered discussion of Eclipse, the third installment in the Twilight saga. This bonus Morbid episode is an irreverent, at times scathing feminist breakdown of the book and its film adaptation. The duo dissect problematic relationship dynamics, character arcs, franchise lore, and much more—supported by direct quotes, behind-the-scenes info, and genuinely laugh-out-loud commentary. They compare book vs. movie, share notable differences, and reflect on Eclipse’s cultural footprint, all while questioning why any of us ever fell for Team Edward or Team Jacob.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights
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I. Twilight Context: Why Eclipse?

• The episode centers on Eclipse—Ash says it is her “least favorite of the five movies” ([03:21]).
• Both hosts discuss how rereading the books as adults sheds new (harsh) light on characters and themes.
• Fun Fact: Eclipse was the highest-grossing Twilight film, earning $760 million worldwide ([05:34]).

II. Book vs. Movie: Characterizations and Growth

• Ash notes how the book versions of major characters are “so much worse” than their movie counterparts ([04:31]).
  • Charlie in particular is “literally the worst,” while Jacob’s portrayal is even more problematic ([15:22]; [04:46]; [06:56]).
• Edward’s growth is called out: “He is so fucking patient with the Jacob shit” ([12:46]; [12:55]).
• Jacob’s character arc is described as “character assassination”—he’s manipulative, physically forceful, and emotionally unstable ([06:58]; [07:11]; [35:13]).
• The manipulation of Bella by both Edward and Alice is scrutinized:
  • “No one really gives Bella the option to do anything” ([09:46]).
  • “Alice is … straight up manipulating Bella into Edward’s every whim” ([08:42]).

III. Problematic Relationship Dynamics

• The hosts analyze how the series glorifies “baby-girl coding” and disempowers Bella, particularly in sexual and emotional autonomy:
  • “He just doesn’t listen to the fact that she’s sitting there … she wants to do … and you’re just not listening to her” – Elena ([11:25])
  • “Nobody listens.” – Ash ([11:39])
  • Notably, male characters (Edward, Jacob, Charlie) regularly override Bella’s agency ([10:18]).

IV. Assault Scene: Jacob Kissing Bella (Book vs. Movie)

• Detailed breakdown of the book’s upsetting lack of consent:
  • “His lips crushed mine, stopping my protest … his other hand gripping tight around my neck, making escape impossible … I opened my eyes and didn’t fight, didn’t feel. Just waited for him to stop” ([17:45]; [19:05])
  • Ash: “That’s assault.” ([18:53])
• The hosts highlight the disturbingly dismissive reactions from both Charlie and Edward:
  • Charlie: “Good for you, kid.” ([22:56])
  • “If I walked in with my best guy friend … my dad would have had him out in the forest in 2 seconds” – Elena ([24:06])
  • Edward only slowly asks what happened; Jacob also manipulates the situation ([25:42]).

V. Emotional Manipulation: Jacob’s Guilt Trip/Suicide Threats

• Jacob emotionally manipulates Bella, threatening self-harm to get what he wants, culminating in her feeling forced to kiss him ([35:13]–[40:41]):
  • “He’s putting it all on her” – Ash ([35:59])
  • “The only reason she does [kiss Jacob] is to make him not kill himself. That’s not healthy in any universe ever.” ([38:41])

VI. Imprinting: Quill & Claire and the Problem of Predatory Dynamics

• The imprinting subplot (especially Quill on 2-year-old Claire) is harshly criticized:
  • “Don’t be judgmental.” – Jacob ([85:24])
  • “Why wouldn’t she choose him? Because she’s two.” – Elena ([91:04])
  • “Nothing about it is platonic. … The goal is for them to end up together.” ([88:27])

VII. Confusing Vampire Lore and Character Backstories

• Jasper’s Confederate past (and the lack of reckoning with it) is skewered:
  • “He’s still proud of it. Babe, not once have I heard that man say, ‘I wouldn’t join today’…” – Elena ([65:27])
• Rosalie’s assault and revenge arc is recounted, noting both its power and problematic messaging about beauty and victim-blaming ([67:21]–[77:02]):
  • Rosalie: “If I had been ugly, I would have been fine.” ([73:05])
  • Ash: “That’s you being beautiful had nothing to do with [your assault]—and everything to do with bad men.” ([73:20])

VIII. Iconic and Infamous Moments

• Notable lines and movie/book moments:
  • “Let’s face it, I’m hotter than you.” – Jacob ([31:20])
  • “If you had stayed away another six months, I could have had a chance.” – Jacob ([33:09])
  • “Mama, you’re not wearing your ugly ass engagement ring, and you’re wearing your ugly ass wolf pendant.” – Ash ([46:55])
  • “Ew, please don’t say that out loud. I’m not kidding.” – Bella, on being engaged ([48:22])
  • “Stop trying to take your clothes off.” – Edward ([50:04])
• The infamous “mountain tent” scene where Jacob and Edward fight over Bella’s body heat gets the play-by-play ([30:54]–[31:38]).
• The hosts call out Bella's aversion to her own engagement, despite “wanting to tie myself [to Edward] in every human way possible” ([49:03]).

IX. Victoria Recast & Hairgate

• Discussion of the abrupt recasting of Victoria (Rachelle Lefevre → Bryce Dallas Howard), why it happened, and how it affected character continuity and the final showdown ([93:19]–[96:56]).

X. Behind the Scenes, Extended Lore, & Adult Reappraisal

• Frequent referencing of The Twilight Saga: The Official Illustrated Guide and Stephanie Meyer’s FAQ/archival site for context and criticism ([19:29]; [81:02]).
• Ongoing commentary on the series’ disturbing normalizations and unintended lessons for young readers.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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• [04:31] “The characters in the book are so much worse than they are in the movie.”
• [06:56] “Jacob just tumbles backwards. Like, he devolves in a way I can’t even—character assassination.” – Elena
• [07:37] “It’s not like a sexy edge. It’s like, I’m genuinely worried about safety kind of edge. And that’s not where you want to be.” – Ash
• [11:25] “He doesn’t listen to the fact that she’s sitting there … she wants to do … and you’re just not listening to her.” – Elena
• [18:53] “That is already—you’re like, what the fuck? You had no consent. That’s assault.” – Ash
• [22:56] “Good for you, kid.” – Charlie, after Jacob admits to nonconsensually kissing Bella (Book)
• [24:06] “If I walked in [injured] with my best guy friend … my dad would have had him out in the forest in two seconds.” – Elena
• [31:20] “Let’s face it, I’m hotter than you.” – Jacob (to Edward)
• [35:13] “He just immediately starts threatening suicide, which is so manipulative.” – Elena
• [38:41] “Literally the only reason [she does kiss Jacob] is to make him not kill himself. That’s not healthy in any universe ever.” – Elena
• [46:57] “You’re not wearing your ugly ass engagement ring. And you’re wearing your ugly ass wolf pendant.” – Ash
• [48:22] Bella: “Ew, please don’t say that out loud. I’m not kidding.” (Reacting to being called ‘engaged’)
• [50:04] “He literally says, Bella, stop trying to take your clothes off. … That would send me into psychosis.” – Elena
• [65:27] “He’s still proud of [being a Confederate soldier]. … Not once have I heard that man say, ‘I wouldn’t join today.’” – Elena

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Noteworthy Timestamps
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• [03:21] Why Eclipse is the least favorite / personal Twilight histories
• [04:31] Book vs. movie characters
• [06:56] Jacob and Edward's character arcs
• [11:25] Autonomy and agency (Bella, Edward, Alice)
• [17:45] Dramatic reading: The kiss assault scene in the book
• [22:56] Charlie’s shocking reaction to the incident
• [24:06] Hosts’ reactions to their own hypothetical “parent” responses
• [30:54] Mountain tent scene analysis
• [35:13] Emotional manipulation and suicide threats
• [48:22] Bella’s hilarious engagement rejection
• [67:21] Discussion of Confederate Jasper and Rosalie’s backstory
• [85:24] Imprinting with a toddler—Quill & Claire
• [93:19] Victoria’s sudden recast
• [99:57] The “Eclipse” title line discussion

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Additional Fun Bits
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• The hosts brainstorm “Twilight-style” names for their hypothetical children: Donnie Johto and Carrie Dak ([92:32]).
• Repeated exasperation about the franchise’s missed opportunities (e.g., not using book lines in the movies, mishandling backstories).
• Sharp, often hilarious, critique of the series’ folklore, including vampire marble-lips, chaste kissing, and venom lore ([59:12]).
• “Victoria hairgate”: The new actress’s crunchy curls cannot compete with the original’s “feral fairy creature” aesthetic ([95:05]).

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Summary
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In this special “Morbid” episode, Ash and Alaina roast and re-examine Eclipse as both an iconic and deeply problematic cultural touchstone. Rife with scathing humor, direct quotes, analysis of relationship red flags, and dramatic mock-readings of Twilight’s infamously cringe scenes, this episode offers cathartic laughter and sharp insight for both dedicated fans and critical revisitors. The hosts connect personal reflections, modern social awareness, and fandom-lore expertise—making this the perfect recap if you want to know what really goes down in Forks, minus the rose-tinted nostalgia.
Final thought:
“The clouds I can handle, but I can't fight with an eclipse.” – [99:57]
A summary that sums up both the book’s central love triangle and the hosts’ love-hate relationship with this saga.

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Stay tuned for their much-anticipated, “unhinged” Breaking Dawn recaps!

Transcript

[Ash]

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[Elena]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie.

[Ash]

When you use Angie for your home

[Elena]

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[Ash]

for nearly 30 years.

[Elena]

So we know the difference between done and done well. Angie, the one you trust.

[Ash]

Define the ones you trust. Find a pro for your [e-mail].

[Elena]

hey, weirdos. I'm Elena.

[Ash]

I'm Ash.

[Elena]

And this is a morbid bonus episode.

[Ash]

It's a motherfucking bonus. Before we get into it, must or might I say, your hair has such a good, sweet swoop right now.

[Elena]

Oh, thank you.

[Ash]

I just noticed the swoopage that your hair has.

[Elena]

It just didn't. And I said, wow, sometimes it falls into a good swoop and sometimes it falls into a swoop. That makes me look crazy.

[Ash]

No, it's a great soup.

[Elena]

Thank you.

[Ash]

You're giving Patricia at short.

[Elena]

Oh, that's a swoop.

[Ash]

That's a nice swoop.

[Elena]

That's a swoop. A loop.

[Ash]

That's a swoop. There it is.

[Elena]

I'm into it. And you know what we're going to be covering today, everybody? Eclipse. Eclipse.

[Ash]

Yes. We're gonna do it. I'm excited. This is, I think, my least favorite of the five movies. Yeah, it's pretty gnarly, but it's there's fun parts of this. There is.

[Elena]

Oh yeah. There's a lot to talk about. So. But before we get into that really, really quick, go check out my socials really quick. I mentioned it on the last morbid episode, but if you have been looking for to pre order a signed copy of the Butcher Legacy because I know some people are looking for some signed copies because they were gone at Barnes and Noble. Go check out my socials because I partnered with Premier Collectibles and I signed a bunch more book plates that we're going to be putting on the Butcher Legacy and you can go snatch them up right now. It's a limited quality quantity, not quality. It's very, it's high quality. Very high quality.

[Ash]

I've seen they're super high quality, but

[Elena]

they're limited quantity of them. So go grab them, pre order your signed copy of the Butcher Legacy. I sign them in the POD lab with my hands. They are signed. Or you can. And you can go to premier collectibles.com butcher and the link will be in our bio on our socials.

[Ash]

Hell yeah.

[Elena]

So go do that. And you know, I, I'll keep signing as much as I can.

[Ash]

She better.

[Elena]

You know, I'll keep doing it. As long as you guys want it, I'll do it.

[Ash]

I mean, what more can you ask for people?

[Elena]

I'm saying. But now Eclipse into the show. Let's talk about this. God, I reread the book in one day. In like a day and a half. Okay. Okay. And I like speed read like it wasn't a full. Let me, let me envelop myself in this world. That's probably good, but actually it's behind me and I need it for reference.

[Ash]

When I tell you this has a copy of Eclipse that is full of little post it notes. I do.

[Elena]

We should, we should post this.

[Ash]

Yeah, we absolutely should. With the, with the bonus. That's insane.

[Elena]

Yeah, I got, I got into it.

[Ash]

So I just have a Google Doc like a normal person.

[Elena]

Yeah, I got one of those too. But so we got. So we got this. The book is a wild ride, in my opinion.

[Ash]

Yeah. Because I think the characters in the book are so much worse than they are in the movie.

[Elena]

They are. And I feel like that goes throughout the series.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Not all the characters, but.

[Ash]

No, not all of them.

[Elena]

And we'll get into this for sure. But Charlie is terrible in the book

[Ash]

and Jacob, I would say, is worse.

[Elena]

Yeah, he might be a little worse. Yeah, he actually is.

[Ash]

He's still. I mean, he's pretty bad at the movie.

[Elena]

Like, he is in this movie. Like, let's.

[Ash]

Let's get into it.

[Elena]

Let's get into it. Well, first of all, let me tell you. So this book came out August 7th, 2007, the Eclipse Book.

[Ash]

I was 11.

[Elena]

Holy. I was out of high school.

[Ash]

You were 21.

[Elena]

Yep. And the movie came out June 24th, 2010. Okay. So just to give you some kind of idea on that, I also looked up the box office because I was really interested to see at this point what the box office was doing. Eclipse actually is the highest grossing film of the series.

[Ash]

Really?

[Elena]

Yeah. Interesting. I guess it was made for 68 point. The budget was 68.5 million.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Elena]

It made 760 million worldwide.

[Ash]

Holy.

[Elena]

So they made back that budget?

[Ash]

I would say so.

[Elena]

Yeah, they did.

[Ash]

So that's crazy. I don't think I saw this one in theaters.

[Elena]

I. I can't remember though. Cannot remember.

[Ash]

Yeah. For some reason I can't. I think I watched it, like, when it came to, like, On Demand.

[Elena]

Yeah. I can't remember. On Demand. Yeah.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

I can't remember.

[Ash]

I know, I know. We together saw one of the Breaking Dawns in theaters. I think it was the first one.

[Elena]

Yeah, we definitely saw at least one of them. Yeah. But I. You know what? In this one, I have to say, it's shocking. Like, the character, because Edward has, like,

[Ash]

weird character growth, but also he like, falls back.

[Elena]

Well. And Jacob just tumbles backwards. Like, he devolves in a way I can't even. I feel like it's a cat. I know she's. She didn't mean to. She says, but Stephanie Meyers. But. Or Meyer. But I. It's like a character assassination of Jacob.

[Ash]

I fully think so. Because you and I were talking about it, like, before we started recording this, and. And in part two, you understand Jacob, like, he could be a little much for sure with like, his feelings for Bella, but, like, he's rightfully angry at Edward for abandoning her in the woods, which is crazy. Absolutely. And you know, they're growing. They're hanging out all the time.

[Elena]

They have feelings for each other.

[Ash]

Yeah. So you can. And then, like, you know, Edward comes back and. Or like, she goes to get Edward and he's like, what the. And he's like, rightfully angry. He doesn't make, like, the best choices. Yeah. But then in this one, he just assaults Bella.

[Elena]

He loses his goddamn mind. Yeah, he loses his God damn mind in this one.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And he's like, snarky, as in this one. Yeah. But it doesn't work because, like, Jacob, he has, like, a little. He's a werewolf. So I guess, like, you know, he's got a little something. Yeah. To him there. Like, a little edge. Like. But, like, it's a little. It's too. It's not. It's not charming.

[Ash]

Well, that's the thing. It's not like, a sexy edge. It's like.

[Elena]

It's like.

[Ash]

Or a douchebag.

[Elena]

Like, I'm genuinely worried about safety kind of edge. And that's not where you want to be.

[Ash]

It's just, like, beyond an edge.

[Elena]

Yeah. But. But Edward, I gotta say, because, like, in the first two books and then the first two movies, Edward is weird. Not great, guys. Like. Like, when I was first reading this, I remember being like, oh, my God, vampire. Oh, yeah. And even now I'm like, oh, my God, vampire. But now I'm just kind of like, wow, you're, like, really controlling. And you also treat Bella like she's like a tiny baby child.

[Ash]

And everybody know anything. Like, I've said it. The last couple that we've done of these, they. And Bella is so baby girl coded.

[Elena]

She's so baby girl coded. It's like, oh, like, he has to explain things to her. Yeah.

[Ash]

And he's like, well, you just don't

[Elena]

get it because you're just like, a slow girl.

[Ash]

Well, and also, like, while we're talking about that, I saw a lot of people saying. Because I was just, like, reading online forms and stuff. Alice is very similar to Edward in that way. They make it seem like her and. And Bella are like, bestie girls.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

But a lot of times she's kind of manipulating, or not even kind of just, like, straight up manipulating Bella into Edward's every whim.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like, he offers her a Porsche to kidnap Bella so that she doesn't go see Jacob in the book.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And it's like, what? And she also.

[Elena]

In.

[Ash]

Like, obviously, I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, but I know in the. In the movie, it kind of ends with, like, they're gonna get married and la de da do. And Alice is gonna plan the whole thing. She. Alice, like, kind of forces Bella into letting her plan the whole thing in the book.

[Elena]

Yeah. And it's like, definitely does.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Elena]

And she steps in a lot and is like. And it's like, it's masked, like, do, like you said, as, like, oh, we're just best friends. And I'm just like, this is who I am. And I just love doing this. But. But I'm sorry. If, like, she keeps jumping in and being like, I got you this dress that you can wear for this thing. Right? And you can look like this for this.

[Ash]

Right?

[Elena]

And I think you should do that for that.

[Ash]

I'm not your doll.

[Elena]

Just let me. And it's like she wants to plan all the parties, which. It's like that. On the surface. Yeah. Nice.

[Ash]

Cool.

[Elena]

She's good at planning parties. Like, that's fine. But it's like, underneath that is like, I'm controlling everything and this is all mine.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

And also, you're going to owe me.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Elena]

So that's how I see it.

[Ash]

It's one thing for her to plan, like, the prom party or whatever, the gr. I can't remember if it's the prom party or the graduation party that she throws it.

[Elena]

Honestly, she plans all of them.

[Ash]

But your wedding.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like, if you can have somebody help you plan that.

[Elena]

She plans her birthday, her wedding, her graduation party.

[Ash]

You gotta plan a party, babe.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like, at least. Or at least give her the option.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Elena]

Like, no one really gives Bella the option to do anything.

[Ash]

No, they really tell her how they. How she feels about them.

[Elena]

Oh, Jacob loves telling her how she feels. And then even Edward. It's like, who I'm saying has some growth here, but, like, by no means is perfect. It's like, he. He just. He doesn't listen to the fact that she's sitting there at one point because, like, obviously the whole thing of this is, like, Bella's, like, super horned up and can we please just. And. And Edward is, like, very against this

[Ash]

because he's like, I'm gonna. I'll kill you.

[Elena]

And. And that. And he's like, I'll kill you. Blah, blah.

[Ash]

I'll lose control.

[Elena]

But then he's like, okay, when we're married, I want to wait until I'm married. And it's like.

[Ash]

But she. That doesn't really make that decision, too.

[Elena]

One, you don't like. And obviously, you both have to, like, decide this. But when she's talking about it, she's basically saying, especially in the book, that, like, she's like, I want to do this before I'm a vampire. Which is, like, fair. I'm a human. I want to experience this as a human because I don't know who I'm gonna be. Right? I'm a vampire. I'm not gonna be just this anymore. And he's like, yeah, yeah. Like, no, you'll still be my Bella. And it's like, no, she didn't ask that. She didn't ask her what she will be to you she wants to do. Like. And you're just not listening to her.

[Ash]

Nobody listens.

[Elena]

And it's like. And obviously, again, she's not. Like, she can force him to do it. Like, he gets a choice in this as well.

[Ash]

But they're a back and forth.

[Elena]

Yeah. It felt like he just wasn't. When he just says, will you always be my Bella? I was like, that's not the point. When it's.

[Ash]

It's literally just like, boop.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like, it's just like, this isn't about you. This is about her right now. Like, let her tell you how she's feeling here. And it's like. And then there's that, like, whole thing about, like, you know, do you not trust that I'm going to turn you? I'm going to keep my promise. And, like. And then he's like, how do I know that you're not going to get what you want and then refuse to marry me right away? And I was like, do you see how this is not a good relationship? If you guys are questioning all this, do you see how.

[Ash]

You're 17 years old. You might want to experience more of life.

[Elena]

But I do have to give it to Edward. When I say he had growth. Like, in this one, he starts kind of like we were saying before. He's, like, very like, baby girl. And he still is. But in this one, he at least says several times that he trusts Bella's judgment. Yeah. And that if she feels like something is right or the right thing to do, he just has to trust her, regardless of how he feels.

[Ash]

But it's only in certain aspects, because, like I said, he literally offers Alice a Porsche to go kidnap Bella so that she doesn't make a choice that she wanted to make.

[Elena]

Exactly. And that's. And he. But he is. Honestly. I'll give him this. He is so fucking patient with the Jacob shit. He is.

[Ash]

Oh, in the movie, it starts right away. And when I. She just hops on the back of Jacob's bike when he is like, okay, like, let's go to the reservation and I'll tell you everything that Edward hasn't told you. It's like.

[Elena]

And just leave some standing.

[Ash]

I can't imagine if my man's was Edward, and I hopped on the back of somebody else's bike. My man's would not put up with

[Elena]

that, especially, it's your mortal enemy.

[Ash]

That's crazy.

[Elena]

Like, I had. I was watching this on my. My laptop this morning, and my girls Were like, sitting, doing something, like, near me. And so they were kind of like every now and again looking over and being like, what is this? So I was explaining, like, the very generalized version of, like, this is what Twilight is. And so every once in a while, my oldest would look over and at one point she saw, like, Bella and Edward interacting. And she saw it a couple of times. And at one point after, like, the third time, she goes, they don't seem like they really like each other that much. And I was like, I know. Like, she was like, they're just always like, like, snapping at each other. Like, that doesn't seem like a nice relationship.

[Ash]

Well, it's funny because, like, they are snapping at each other all the time. Like, as characters, but like, also just as two humans. They don't really have a lot of

[Elena]

chemistry, which is insane because they were together. Yeah. Like, they were, like, madly in love, supposedly.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Yeah. It's pretty. And at one point I was pretty proud because, like, towards the end of it, all three of my girls agreed that they would pick neither. That's good. That was like, good for you. They were like, yeah, it doesn't make sense. And one of my middle was like. She was like, well, I don't really understand how she can pick either because they both hate each other.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And if you're friends with one and trying to, like, date the other, that won't work if they hate the other person. I was like, you are more logical than adults here are also like, we are.

[Ash]

They're being raised so differently than we were. Because I was like, oh, my God. You got to pick Edward.

[Elena]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I was like, don't pick either of these fools. Yeah, no, no. I was like, pick Charlie.

[Ash]

Not Book Charlie.

[Elena]

Not Book Charlie.

[Ash]

You can pick Zaddy Charlie.

[Elena]

Holy. Not Charlie. Book Charlie. Like, maybe we should do. We're going to be out of order here because we don't do these in like a narration.

[Ash]

So we're just shooting the shit.

[Elena]

Charlie.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Charlie literally is the worst. Let me open my book. Book Charlie is a. How did you even organize. Is an asshole on a. On a way I can't even describe.

[Ash]

Just gonna go through 17 post its over here.

[Elena]

Yeah, just like tons of.

[Ash]

Do you hear her flicking through this?

[Elena]

You probably will.

[Ash]

Flick. Flick. Look at the flick of that.

[Elena]

I gotta find where I wrote what the Charlie. Because that's one of the things I wrote.

[Ash]

Are you gonna read an excerpt here?

[Elena]

Hold on. What the is this, Charlie?

[Ash]

That's what it seems she did in Fact. Write that.

[Elena]

Yeah. So in chapter nine in the book, when I think he's talking about how, like, he wants her to call Jacob, he's, like, trying to push that whole thing, and she's kind of being like, no, I don't want to deal with this. And like, you know, get out of my business kind of thing. He's like, aren't you going to call him? And she's like, no. And she goes up the stairs, and he says, and I quote, that's not very attractive behavior. Bella. Forgiveness is divine. Charlie.

[Ash]

What?

[Elena]

I said, excuse me, numero uno.

[Ash]

What a weird fucking thing to say to your daughter.

[Elena]

The day that I hear my husband tell one of my daughters, that's not very attractive behavior.

[Ash]

I'm not trying to be.

[Elena]

Is the day I light him on fire like that. Since that, you just get rid of the whole thing.

[Ash]

Yeah, I'll come over.

[Elena]

You can't save that. Like, why are you saying that to your daughter?

[Ash]

First of all, forgiveness is divine.

[Elena]

Forgiveness is divine.

[Ash]

You don't even know what we're arguing about.

[Elena]

Shut the up.

[Ash]

You're uninformed.

[Elena]

My God, you're very uninformed. And I have more stupid Charlie in the book here.

[Ash]

Well, because even when he is informed, he doesn't really give a. Oh, yeah,

[Elena]

because I. I have another thing that just says Charlie in here. And this is in, like, in the three hundreds range. And it's after Jacob has forced himself on Bella, kissing her. Yeah. And which we'll get to that. Because that whole scene in the book is even more upsetting.

[Ash]

Read that scene first, because I think you need to hear how it's described in the book before you hear Charlie's reaction.

[Elena]

All right, so let me get to the. To the part in the book.

[Ash]

Not to direct you here. I'm like, hold on. Backtrack that. Cuz. So even in the movie, just while you're looking for that, I'll go through it. Even in the movie, like, he kisses her forcefully. And it's a lot in the movie, but in the book, it is a million times worse.

[Elena]

That's. And in the. In the movie, it happens so fast, and it's like. But it's kind of like. But you're like, oh, God. And she kind of pushes him away, and it's like, what the. Like, you know. Yeah. In the book, this is how it says the first kiss. This is what it says. So first she starts to object, but it was too late. He stopped her before she could even say the word no completely. And it says his lips crushed mine, stopping my protest. He kissed me angrily, roughly, his other hand gripping tight around the back of my neck, making escape impossible. Oh, yeah. I shoved against his chest with all my strength, but he didn't even seem to notice. And then she says, I grabbed at his face, trying to push it away. Failing again. He seemed to notice this time, though, and it aggravated him. She's pushing him away and it aggravated him.

[Ash]

Ready?

[Elena]

Ready for the next one? His lips forced mine open and I could feel his hot breath in my mouth.

[Ash]

Ew. You motherfucker.

[Elena]

And then this is the part that really gets so that is already. You're like, what the fuck?

[Ash]

You had no consent. That's assault.

[Elena]

This one little paragraph is so upsetting because I know a lot of people and a lot of women.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Elena]

Have experienced, know this feeling right here.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Elena]

Acting on instinct, I let my hands drop to my side and shut down. I opened my eyes and didn't fight, didn't feel. Just waited for him to stop. How is that even remotely romantic?

[Ash]

Before you even get to Charlie's reaction about that, I need to go to the. The archive that we always reference. Stephanie Meyer's archive.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. I love the archive.

[Ash]

So there's FAQs about each book.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And this one is in Eclipse. One of the frequently asked questions is, what are characters biggest mistakes in Eclipse or their tragic flaws? So she says Bella's lack of self knowledge. She never would have pursued her friendship with Jacob if she had realized how much more of a friendship than it really was. Yaddy da dot. And then Edward's. I think his was self control. She said Jacob doesn't have a tragic flaw. She writes.

[Elena]

Could have fooled me.

[Ash]

He has one goal and one hope. His goal is to save Bella's life. His hope is that he'll win her heart in the process. He fails at both, but that doesn't mean he regrets trying. If he could do it over again, he'd do the same thing.

[Elena]

Whoa.

[Ash]

Jacob couldn't live with himself if he didn't give saving Bella his best effort. He knows it's going to hurt when he loses, but he knows it would hurt worse if he didn't try. Does he do everything right? Heck no. I heard that, sister. But he's 16, she writes, and he's making it up as he goes along. Like he should probably make it up better. Those who are upset by some of his tactics should consider his youth and the fact that he. That he is, after all. Right. Bella's in love with him. In the end, it's truly healthier for her to be aware of this as she goes forward with unalterable decisions.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

So Bella has to be told, like, Jacob is right about the fact that Bella is in love with him, according to Stephanie Meyer. And she needs to listen to him about her feelings that he's saying she has.

[Elena]

Yeah. Listen to the. Listen to the man. She knows better.

[Ash]

She doesn't have any autonomy. She doesn't know how she feels.

[Elena]

She needs to be told no. And as we will see, and especially in Eclipse, they make it pretty clear that not many women have autonomy in this one.

[Ash]

Like, hello.

[Elena]

Not many of them have it. Hello.

[Ash]

Also, if he could do it over again, he'd do the same thing.

[Elena]

Damn. Damn, is what I say. Well, that's. And that's when it gets worse, because she punches him in the face in that scene.

[Ash]

And she breaks her hand.

[Elena]

And she breaks her hands, and so he has to bring her back to Charlie. And in the movie, which, like, I gotta tell you, in the movie, when Edward is just like, appears.

[Ash]

Honey, that's.

[Elena]

And he's so angry and all up in Jacob's face, I was like, that's what I remember.

[Ash]

We were watching it.

[Elena]

That's what I remember.

[Ash]

I go, oh, I love this part.

[Elena]

Yep. We were both like, oh, I love. That's when I like Edward. I like when he gets mad.

[Ash]

But even I will say, because we're about to read Charlie's reaction in the book. Charlie's reaction in the movie isn't that great either.

[Elena]

It's not great, but it's far and away better than this. Because in the movie, he just kind of stands between them, which I understand. Yeah. Going on. And Jake, Jacob says, bella thinks she broke her hand. And he's like, what? And she's, like, punching me in the face. And he. He kind of, like, looks at him like, what? And then he's like, I tried to kiss, or I kissed her. Yeah. And he just kind of looks. And you can tell he's like, I don't know how to react to this, like, because they're both there. And, like, that's weird. It's not a great reaction, but it's not great. Not terrible when you look at this.

[Ash]

But that's the thing. This is much.

[Elena]

And that's kind of it. So in the book, though, Jacob just walks on into the house, feels absolutely nothing about what just occurred, and he's like, hey. And she walks by Charlie to go get ice, because no one's getting her ice either.

[Ash]

Gotta get it.

[Elena]

She's just gonna walk over her broken hand. And Charlie says, what's wrong with her? Don't ask her. Ask Jacob. Yeah, and he. Jacob says, she thinks she broke her hand.

[Ash]

Not even. She did break her. She thinks.

[Elena]

She thinks she broke. Like, she's great. Like, you know, she's hysterical girl. And he says, how did she do that? And she says, as my father, I thought Charlie ought to sound a bit less amused and a bit more concerned. And I said, yeah, sister. Jacob laughed. She hit me. Oh. Charlie laughed too. And I scowled while I beat the tray against the edge of the sink. Why did she hit you? Because I kissed her. Jacob said, unashamed, good for you, kid. Charlie congratulated him. I have several things to say about this. So many things to say about that. Okay, so the second that Jacob said she hit me, I can tell you with 100 certainty, I would lay down my entire life on this bet that if I walked in with my best guy friend. And I know exactly if I walked in in high school with my friend Derek, who was like, my parents knew him, like everybody. He one of my best guy friends. If I walked in there with him and I was holding a broken hand and my dad said. Because sure. My dad looks at him and says, what happened?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

If he said, she hit me, my dad would have had Derek out in the forest 100. He would have been like, what the did you do that? She hit you? That would have been. It wouldn't have even been a thought.

[Ash]

He would have been out of that house faster than you could blink.

[Elena]

It wouldn't be, why did you know? Why did she hit you? It would be, what did you do to make her hit you? Like, it would be fully on him.

[Ash]

Why did she have self defense against.

[Elena]

That would be it. So he's saying she. I kissed her and she was so upset that she fucking punched me in the face.

[Ash]

She had to act in self defense.

[Elena]

And your first response to that is, what is it? Is it good for you? Good for you, kid? Instead of, oh, you did it without her consent. Yeah. What the is wrong with you? Yeah, like that. And that's not even the end of how up the men are around her in this scene. Because it's not even just Charlie. I know, because first of all, Jacob is being a little dick. Like, he thinks this whole thing is funny. Like he's not bothered about it at all. And then when she tells Jacob, when he's like, what happened on the phone? Edward or Edward, She's. He's like, what happened? And she says, I punched Jacob. His response should be, what happened? What did he do that you needed to punch him? Nope. He says, good, though. I'm sorry. That, though. I'm sorry you're hurt.

[Ash]

You don't want to know why.

[Elena]

And she has to say several little things. Like, she's like, oh, I wish I had hurt him. I didn't do any damage at all. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's several ways down where he says, what did he do?

[Ash]

Like, hello.

[Elena]

Like, are. Do any of you care that you. If she's punching her best friend, a man.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

You should be concerned about what he did to deserve that.

[Ash]

What?

[Elena]

And then it gets even.

[Ash]

I was gonna say, what does he say? Because I don't remember.

[Elena]

So then, though. So Edward arrives. This is in the book Edward arrives. And Jacob and Edward are kind of, like, going at each other a little bit. Like, just, right, right, right, right. And Charlie comes in and of course, only says to Edward, like, hey, like, you gotta back off. And then he says, I can go put on my badge if it makes my. My requests more official. And Edward says, that won't be necessary. And that's when Bella says, why don't you arrest me, dad? I'm the one throwing punches. Like, are you seeing anything that's happening here? And his response, Charlie raised an eyebrow. Do you want to press charges, Jake?

[Ash]

Brother. Brother. Jake's not the one that was assaulted. How about you ask your daughter that?

[Elena]

And to ask your own in front of your own fucking daughter. Ask this boy.

[Ash]

Do you know what's so sad? Like, what? Do you know what's so sad? This is probably, like, at least somewhat similar to an experience that a lot of girls have.

[Elena]

This is so fucked up.

[Ash]

Like, we're lucky. Like, we had papa. But some dads are like this.

[Elena]

I can't imagine.

[Ash]

That is obviously for that to have been written in a book that's rooted in some kind of reality. Of course it is. Which is awful.

[Elena]

I just cannot fathom it.

[Ash]

That's insane to me.

[Elena]

I really can't. I can't fathom it.

[Ash]

Which is nice that we can.

[Elena]

Like, it is. That was the worst. I was like, charlie, you are so attractive in the movie, and you are so unattractive in the book. Yeah, like, really? God damn.

[Ash]

He's a bridge troll in the book. Like, that's so fucked up.

[Elena]

Is it Billy Burke, who's the actor? Billy Burke really saved Charlie Swan.

[Ash]

He did.

[Elena]

He really did.

[Ash]

He really, really did.

[Elena]

He really saved. He. He made him What? He is so like, hats off to Billy Burke.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Period.

[Ash]

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[Elena]

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[Ash]

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[Ash]

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[Elena]

And that's the thing. It's like when I say Edward had growth. It's like only so much. Yeah, because like he wasn't quite linear. Again. He's very patient with the Jacob. Like, like this kind of thing. He could have killed him right then and there. 100 because they're supernatural creatures. It's not like these are two humans. Right? But he's super big and he's baited the entire movie by Jacob. Yeah, Baited. And he does manage to keep his shit together. Which, like, I realize the bar is in hell here, but like, that is the universe we're currently watching. Right?

[Ash]

Now, can we jump forward, like, massively.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

To when they are so, like, the newborns are coming. Which, like, we'll get to.

[Elena]

Oh, my God.

[Ash]

This, if you're listening, most likely. So the newborns are coming. They're like. They mark Bella scent in the field.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And her and Edward hike up to this, like, crazy peak to stay away from everything. And Jacob is there, and Bella. It's snowing for some reason, in June on this mountain peak. I realize it snows on mountain peaks, but, like, it wouldn't happen June.

[Elena]

Like, actively, actively.

[Ash]

Like, there's a storm outside.

[Elena]

I think it could have snow on the peak in June, but, like, an active snowstorm, I feel like, is crazy.

[Ash]

Yeah, definitely. So Bella's, like, freezing, obviously, and, like, Edward is fine because he's dead, and Jacob is super duper warm. So he comes inside and he's like, I can't focus with all the teeth chattering. Like, let me just keep her warm. And Edward is like, no. Like, fuck you. And I can hear your thoughts. Like, not gonna happen.

[Elena]

Ye. Yeah. He's like.

[Ash]

Finally he relents because Bella's going to get frostbite otherwise. And he literally. Jacob looks at Edward and goes, let's face it, I'm hotter than you.

[Elena]

Let's. Let's face it, I am hotter than you.

[Ash]

Let's face it, I'm hotter than you. And then I said, that's nuts. And then he says that she would warm up faster as he's holding her now. She would warm up faster if she took her clothes off. He says this aloud to her in

[Elena]

front of her, man, there's so much wrong with that. First of all, to say that at all in front of Bella is. While you're holding her is up and

[Ash]

weird when she's already now punched you because you made an advance on.

[Elena]

And when she's made it clear that she's not looking for that.

[Ash]

That's exactly what I'm saying.

[Elena]

And you're sitting there manipulating this situation and saying something so gross and like.

[Ash]

And piggy grass. And now. Now she knows, like, she does need you in this moment. Like, she's gonna get frostbite otherwise. And you're cradling her, and she knows that you're thinking about her with her clothes on. Yeah.

[Elena]

She knows you have, like, a boner and are sitting there, like, snuggling up against her, and she can't do anything else about it because she's gonna die otherwise.

[Ash]

And poor Edward can hear everything he's thinking.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like, honestly, Anybody who is Team Jacob after Eclipse, please come to the front and explain yourself, please. Because I can't.

[Ash]

I see.

[Elena]

I get it from the first two.

[Ash]

I see a lot of people saying that he's just a kid, and, like, he doesn't know any better.

[Elena]

No, babe, He's a teenager.

[Ash]

But I do. The majority of people are.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

They feel how we feel.

[Elena]

I can't. And when. When he says, can't you at least, like. When Edward's like, can't you at least attempt to control your thoughts? That was a very nice way to put that.

[Ash]

It was like.

[Elena]

And in the book, he says something like, I can hear your, like, every little fantasy you're having right now. And I was like, get it together.

[Ash]

He's disgusting. Get it together. So gross.

[Elena]

Get it together.

[Ash]

He also tells Jacob, tells Edward, in this moment, at least in the movie, if you had stayed away another six months, I could have had a chance.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Why would you want a chance if it. If your only chance relied on the one that she actually loved? Being away for, like, a period of time.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

That's not real.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

You're a replacement. Why do you want that? Don't you want somebody who just wants you? Immediately you would think, like, I don't understand that.

[Elena]

Well, then after this, like, in the movie, like, Bella and Edward have, like, a discussion the next morning, and the idea of, like, them being married because

[Ash]

also, they're engaged already because they got engaged the night before this, which I'm

[Elena]

gonna get to that, too, because she has a wild reaction in the book to it, but she. So they're talking about it, and he says something like. You know, in the book, I think he says, like, the best night was when you agreed to marry me. Yeah. And then, like, he says something else in the movie that. That is alluding to the fact that they're getting married. And in the movie, you know, Jacob is just, like, standing a little ways away, so he's like. So he hears it. And when she. He walks out, she's like, you knew he was listening. And Edward's like, he deserves to know.

[Ash]

I do the same thing.

[Elena]

Well. And then she flips out at Edward, and it's like, you're an asshole.

[Ash]

Kill himself.

[Elena]

But in the book, she. He's, like, further away when he hears this.

[Ash]

And in wolf form.

[Elena]

And he's in wolf form. So when he says this, all of a sudden you hear Jacob, like, howl in pain. Like, a heartbreaking howl from, like, a long ways away. And she doesn't blame Edward in The book? Because of course not. She starts blaming herself. She's like, I'm awful. I can't believe I did this. I'm the worst. Like, he even said. He's like, are you angry at me for saying that? And she's like, no, I'm angry at my. Myself. And I'm like, damn, you just gave zero. Like, she's just like, I'm the worst. And then Edward wants to, like, chill her out so much that he's like, do you want me to go get Jacob and you can, like, talk this out? Like, I'll go get him. Because he's like, imagine having to do that. And he does. He goes and gets him. And then he's like, I'm gonna give you guys time to talk about this.

[Ash]

That is such a.

[Elena]

In the book.

[Ash]

It's such an inappropriate. Like, there's no boundaries within this relationship as far as, like, her friendship goes with Jacob.

[Elena]

And then in both situations, she goes to talk to him about it, and Jacob is like, you know, upset and whatever, and he just immediately starts threatening

[Ash]

suicide, which is so manipulative.

[Elena]

It's so manipulative. It's like, what the. And then she's sitting there being like. He's like, you know what? Maybe I'll just, you know, do this or do that or maybe I'll just. You know what? I will go down and battle, and I'll just let. I'll let it happen to me. And then at one point, he's like, oh, you know what? Maybe I could be passive about it. I'll just. I'll fight, but I'll. Whatever happens, happens. And it's putting it all on her,

[Ash]

and I'm like, if I die, it's your fault, because now I'm gonna die sad.

[Elena]

Like, no.

[Ash]

Even though I'm never gonna be with

[Elena]

you anyway, I'm gonna die a sad boy. And it's like, that's literally not her fault. No. And then there's, like, several times where she's like. She keeps telling him. She's like, you know, I don't love you like that. Like, she said it before, I love you. Like, and he keeps saying, you do love me. And he's like, you do love me. You are attracted to me. You just don't understand it. And even says at one point, like, you are more comfortable with me in my wolf form because you're not attracted to me.

[Ash]

It's like, no, babe, she's probably more comfortable with you in wolf form because you can't shove your tongue down her throat.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. And she literally is like, no, it's because you shut the up. Yeah. You can't talk.

[Ash]

That's nice.

[Elena]

And I'm like, take that hint, babe. Like, when she's telling you. Yeah, I like you as a fuzzy creature better because one, you can't make out with me, and two, you shut the up. That should give you all the information you need.

[Ash]

But according to Stephanie Meyer, he's correct.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah, he's correct. But then he keeps saying he's gonna. He's gonna kill himself. He's gonna kill himself. And at one point, she. He's like. She's like, I don't want you to go away. And like. And he's like, see? And she's like, well, no, I love you. I don't want you to go away. That. It's not all or nothing. It's not. I. If I do. If I love you in the way I love Edward, then that means one thing. But, like, I want. You know, I mean, like, just because I don't want you to go away doesn't mean I want to you. Like, that's. There's plenty of people in my life that I don't want to go away.

[Ash]

You said this earlier. Like, she doesn't want Charlie to go away.

[Elena]

And she says that she's like, I feel that way about Charlie.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, you're my family. I don't want something bad to happen to you. Like, I love you that way. And he's like, nope, you want to follow. No, you don't get it. And he keeps going, keeps going. And she finally is like, I want you to come back. And he's like, you should. That. He says, you could ask me because. Remember? And I don't think we mentioned this, but when he forced. Forcibly kisses her before in both the book and the movie, Edward is like, maybe you could wait for her to ask you. Which I'm like, team Edward.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And so he. And even says Edward said. Because at one point while they're talking, I think Jacob asked Edward, like, what if she did ask me? And he's like, then that's. That's her choice. Right? I would respect her choice. Which I'm like, again, King Edward. But in this one, Jacob says, you could ask me. And she's like, please come back, thinking that's like, I'm asking you to come back. And he says, that's not what I'm talking about. So he's literally saying, I'm out. I'm gonna kill myself. Or you could Ask me. And she has to say, will you kiss me, Jacob?

[Ash]

That's insane.

[Elena]

And literally the only reason that he does. That she does is to make him not kill himself. That's not healthy in any universe ever.

[Ash]

It's the most toxic thing.

[Elena]

And the makeout that they have goes on for about four pages.

[Ash]

Oh my God.

[Elena]

God, it's so many pages. Four, so many pages.

[Ash]

How many pages? Cuz doesn't she picture their future together at one point?

[Elena]

And I guess they filmed this, but they didn't like how the makeup looked. I kind of wish they had.

[Ash]

It's apparently like top secret.

[Elena]

Like, I want it.

[Ash]

It was a deleted scene. And I know, like, if you have the DVD or like the extended cut or something there. No, there are deleted scenes that are included, but this one is as like, you can't find it anywhere. But there's a couple pictures from on set. Oh, that people have.

[Elena]

Yeah, you can see them. Yeah. And yeah, because that's part of it is she like starts picturing that, but it's only after, like, he is intense, like very. He does the angry aggressive kiss where she does the same thing. She balls her hands up at her

[Ash]

side, she doesn't want to be kissed.

[Elena]

And he forces her wrist up to the. Where his neck is. And she says she keeps her hand balled up. She doesn't even grab his neck. And he holds her wrist there for a lot of the time and then finally lets go. And then tells her she can do better than this.

[Ash]

Like. Like she can kiss better.

[Elena]

Yeah, because she's not kissing him back. Oh my. And he's literally like, you can do better.

[Ash]

Like that is genuine. Like, obviously the first one was upsetting. This one is so much more upsetting.

[Elena]

It really is. And then he says, like, you can do better than this.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And she said. And he says, for once, just let yourself feel what you feel. And she says, I shook my head mechanically until one of his hands wound back into my hair and stopped me. And he says, are you sure you want me to come back or did you really want me to die?

[Ash]

So now he's like, you wanted me to die.

[Elena]

And in the middle of it, because she's not kissing him back like he wants her to, he threatens again, do you want me to die?

[Ash]

Oh my God.

[Elena]

And she gets pissed and kisses him back. And then he. And she's like angry, so she wants. So she goes to like pull him away after this. And he takes that as like passion. And so he goes like, harder. And that's when they fall and this is even worse. So she was trying to pull him off. Angrily trying to pull him off. He takes it as passion, so he goes further. And then she said this was the moment she realized she was in love with him. Maybe that's not love because he felt like such joy from, like, maybe that's why she was kissing back.

[Ash]

That's Stockholm syndrome.

[Elena]

Yeah. I said, whoa. That's.

[Ash]

That's something I have to wonder because obviously, like I read that quote that Stephanie wrote on her website, like in 2007. I do have to wonder in today's lens if she, if she would feel differently about. I do wonder like, about thinking Jacob is correct in all of his feelings.

[Elena]

Because I understand like, when I first saw this, when I read this kind of thing when I was younger. You know what I mean? Or like, whatever.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, I can understand people when they first read this, when they're younger thinking this is like just so all consuming love.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like very like Wuthering Heights kind of thing. And which she did. This is inspired partly by Wuthering Heights, which Stephanie Meyer said she doesn't even like Wuthering Heights, but like Heathcliff. Heathcliff. And is it Edgar and Heathcliff?

[Ash]

I've never seen it.

[Elena]

They're very. People will compare Jacob and Edward to them a lot. And Heathcliff is like a dick. I love premise.

[Ash]

So I know it's similar.

[Elena]

Yeah. But it's like that you. These things. I can understand why they get seen as like these passionate over. But when you really dig at them, it just is really gross. And it's like these, these moments are really gross and they're not healthy.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

And they should stay in fiction. Yeah. We've, like, we talked about this before. I forget when I talked to. Oh, I think I talked about this when I did the event with Elizabeth Arnot at Unlikely Story. We were talking about how, like, it's wild when people like, especially when women will fall in love with like serial killers, like go and like marry them again. It was high bristophilia. It's Bonnie and Clyde syndrome. And I, I was saying how cr. Like I, I just can't wrap my brain around it because in my mind I can at least sit there and, and know the difference between. Because I love villains, like fictional villains.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

And I know that that doesn't work in real life. A villain doesn't work in real life. I've dated a villain. It doesn't work in real life. And it's like. So you find that out and we. And it Takes people a long time. Trust me, I was in my 20s. Being like, the villain will work out in real life. Like, what are we thinking about? I can fix him. But it's like. So I do wonder if, like, you look back on it now, if she could look up. Back on it now, if she's like, you know what? That wouldn't. Well, because. But again, it's fiction, so it's like, there is a line.

[Ash]

I see what you're saying, but I think the problem in that scenario is Jacob is not written as a villain.

[Elena]

That is a big problem that is overarching in this series. I think no. 1.

[Ash]

He's not presented as a villain exactly. He is acting like how a villain would act. But he's not presented in that way. No, he's not presented in like, oh, poor Jacob. Like, he just loves her so much.

[Elena]

And it's true.

[Ash]

He's really getting the. Under the stick here. Let's feel bad for him.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And it's like, no, he's acting like a incel.

[Elena]

Yeah, it's true that. I think that is part of the problem is he's not given to you on a plate as a villain where you can accept it.

[Ash]

No. You could buy a T shirt back in the day that said team Jacob, of course. Because you were like, rooting for him to be the one that.

[Elena]

The one that gets her.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

And it's like, that's the thing. Like, if you're presenting me a villain, like, you're presenting me Eric Northman, he's

[Ash]

very much a villain.

[Elena]

He's a villain through and through. He is ruthless.

[Ash]

He is like, makes poor decisions, like, does shitty.

[Elena]

Makes bad. And he. And they are saying he is upfront about it. So it's like, you can be like, yeah, like, let's make him do villainous.

[Ash]

And you could be team Eric, like, in a silly, fun way.

[Elena]

Exactly. Because you're like, well, he's a villain.

[Ash]

But also, I think the other problem too is this is. Ya.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

This isn't like, this was. Am I correct? Ya. Like, so that's not. You can't present Jacob like this.

[Elena]

And the audience is impressionable.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

Much more impressionable than an adult audience.

[Ash]

I read this and was like, oh,

[Elena]

my God, that's kind of sexy.

[Ash]

And I'. Oh, my God. As an adult. Like, holy. That's assault.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You know, like. And really, you have to think, like, young girls are reading this and they might be in an experience like that, and then they're just gonna be like, well, maybe I'M in love with this guy.

[Elena]

Yeah, maybe I am. And maybe he's right.

[Ash]

Like, that's why these things happen.

[Elena]

It's true.

[Ash]

It's not. Okay.

[Elena]

No, it's so true. I hate it.

[Ash]

Can we talk about the bracelet? Let's move on a little bit.

[Elena]

Oh, my God, the bracelet.

[Ash]

Okay, so at. Is it the post graduation party?

[Elena]

Yeah, it's the graduation party.

[Ash]

He shows up and this is. She hasn't seen him after she punched

[Elena]

her in the face because he kissed her.

[Ash]

And she literally, like, banned him from being anywhere near him. She was like, stay the fuck away from me. Yeah. So he rolls up to her graduation party, which is rude because he was uninvited.

[Elena]

He was.

[Ash]

And he's like, I'm sorry. Like, I know what I did was wrong, but I did bring you a gift. He brings her a fucking bracelet where he's like whittled a wolf charm together to represent him. I'd be like.

[Elena]

And she just wears that?

[Ash]

You're a narcissist. Yeah, I gotta wear you around now.

[Elena]

That's the thing. Like, what the.

[Ash]

But she is.

[Elena]

And it's like a tag. Like, it's literally like your mind.

[Ash]

If there could have been an air tag in it, there would have been. And then she wears it in front of Edward and it's just like. Yeah, like Jake made it for me.

[Elena]

And wearing it like you're in the Cullen's house.

[Ash]

Right? In the Cullen's house.

[Elena]

And not only mortal enemies.

[Ash]

She's wearing it, I think, like the mountain after they've been engaged.

[Elena]

Yeah. And not wearing her engagement ring.

[Ash]

Mama.

[Elena]

That's the other thing.

[Ash]

You're not wearing your ugly ass engagement ring. And you're wearing your ugly ass wolf pendant.

[Elena]

The. It's the way and that, like, that brings me right to how she reacts to the marriage thing in the book. Because in the. In the movie, she's also like. She's more acting in the movie. I would say. Like, she's worried what people are gonna think.

[Ash]

Yeah. Because she was. I think she even says like in the beginning. And like, obviously it's like kind of shitty, but she's like, what do you think when people exactly get married in

[Elena]

the book, it is very much like Edward is forcing her to get married. She is not in any way, shape or form into this. At one point during their like, romantic night together where it's supposed to be romantic, but holy, it does not. And it's like just the way that she's thinking, we'll get there. Oh, my God. She says, like, she's. They're talking about it. They're talking about, like, you know, like, they're talking about, like, the whole thing of, like, you're gonna. You know, are you gonna agree to turn me? Are you gonna follow through on your promise kind of thing. And she. He says at some point, he, like, finishes. She's like, oh. And now all of a sudden, I'm. And he says, you're engaged. And, like, he says it, like, just being sweet. Her response to that, okay, ew, please don't say that out loud. I'm not kidding.

[Ash]

That's like, right after they get engaged,

[Elena]

he literally says, you're engaged. And she just says, ew, please don't say that out loud. They're not around anyone else.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Elena]

They're not around anyone else.

[Ash]

Can you imagine? Your man's just gets down on one knee. He's like, you're beautiful. You're gorgeous. You look like Linda Evangelista. I want to spend the rest of my life with you. And you're like, oh, my God, yes.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And then he's like, we're engaged.

[Elena]

Ew. And then his respect. He's like, excuse me?

[Ash]

He says, da.

[Elena]

And he says, are you going back on your word? And so she says, I glared at him. And then she says. And he says, are you? And she goes, ugh, no, I'm not. Are you happy now?

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Elena]

And he just says, exceptionally.

[Ash]

Are you exceptionally happy, babe? What? Babe? What?

[Elena]

And he asks her, he says, are you happy? And she says, a little bit. And then she says, but not about getting married.

[Ash]

Here's the thing. It also makes no fucking sense that she's acting this way about getting married.

[Elena]

You're obsessed with him.

[Ash]

She literally, at one point in the movie, says, I want to tie myself to you in every human way possible.

[Elena]

That's the most human way you can actually tie yourself to.

[Ash]

But then she also is like, it's just a piece of paper.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

It's like, okay, one. No, it's not.

[Elena]

It makes no sense. And during that same. During that. That same, like, night, like, right before she's crying to.

[Ash]

That is so dtf.

[Elena]

He. And. And he does it in the book, too. It's like a thing that happens in both. She. While they're making out, she is trying to get things going. And he literally says, bella, stop trying. Take your clothes off.

[Ash]

I would find the nearest body of water and walk all the way into it.

[Elena]

That would send me into psychosis. Like, I would go into psychosis.

[Ash]

I would die a virgin. I couldn't recover because I'd never want to attack that again.

[Elena]

I would never recover from that.

[Ash]

If you're getting freaky with your man and he says, stop trying to take your clothes. Oh my God, why don't you just put a fucking bullet through my head?

[Elena]

The way he says it is so disgusted too. He's like, stop trying to take like, you whore. That's essentially what he sounds like he's saying there.

[Ash]

It's like he's like, no one wants to see that.

[Elena]

No one wants to see that.

[Ash]

I'd. I'd go into cardiac arrest.

[Elena]

I cannot with that. That stresses me out in a way that I literally can't even deal with.

[Ash]

No, I really hate it.

[Elena]

I can't deal with it. Foreign

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[Elena]

why have I asked my H Vac guy I found on Angie.com to change

[Ash]

my grandpa's trachea tube?

[Elena]

I was so amazed at how he replaced our air ducts.

[Ash]

I knew I could trust him to

[Elena]

change Pop Pop's tube. I think we should call a doctor, Angie. The one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail].

[Ash]

Okay.

[Elena]

So that's like.

[Ash]

That's like the Bella and the Jacob and the. The marriage of it all. We also have to talk about, like, the whole premise, basically.

[Elena]

Like.

[Ash]

Like, the overarching premise is that Victoria is back and she wants to kill the. Out of Bella.

[Elena]

Yeah. And here's. Here's one thing about me.

[Ash]

Okay. Talk to me.

[Elena]

So the way that she does that. Because, you know, like, Alice is, like, listening to her thoughts. Yeah. Is she needs to get some people to do her bidding.

[Ash]

Her new.

[Elena]

New vampires. So she finds this guy.

[Ash]

Riley.

[Elena]

Riley. And she turns him. And at first, when I saw Riley running down the street, I was like, oh, okay. Like, whatever. There he is. Yeah. And then they show him as a vampire. And I said, I'm into it. That I was like, team Riley.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

I. I seem to always be team Riley. He's very like Riley during Buffy, too. Yeah. Finn, comma Riley. But I love him as a vampire.

[Ash]

Agreed.

[Elena]

Didn't get enough of him as far as I'm concerned.

[Ash]

I know you would have loved to

[Elena]

have seen him be menacing to everyone else. Yeah. Just so I'm lurking about a little bit.

[Ash]

It's very, kind of, like, glazed over. I think that's one of the bigger problems, too, is, like, I don't quite understand why she needs an army of vampires.

[Elena]

I don't understand Bella. Yeah.

[Ash]

Because she could sort of just use

[Elena]

Riley, I guess she wanted, like. I know that's the thing. I feel like she could just use Riley. But then maybe she wanted, like, a bigger layer of protection. I don't know.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

I don't know.

[Ash]

Did you come across anything in the Illustrator?

[Elena]

No, it's just kind of like the same kind of thing. It's more that she was. She is not going to put herself at risk. So she will do anything to make sure she's padded with enough.

[Ash]

So maybe that's what it is.

[Elena]

Maybe that's.

[Ash]

It's like reinforcements. Because the whole thing is, I think Alice. The reason Alice can't see that this is going to happen is because she hasn't met Riley before. I think in order for Alice to see like, your path. She has to know you.

[Elena]

That makes sense.

[Ash]

Which makes sense because otherwise she'd just be seeing paths left and right.

[Elena]

Yeah, I think that makes sense for sure. And I think in the book and in the. In the illustrated guide as well, we see that Riley is, like, really struggling with. Because Victoria's pretending to love him to get him, to make him very loyal. Right. And so. But he's struggling with it. Not sure if she's telling the truth, and. But he's, like, really obsessed with her loving him and, like, needing to know that he does. And I think we didn't get enough of that in the movie.

[Ash]

You don't get a lot of it at all.

[Elena]

It would have been nice to see that and. Because then at the end when Riley shows up and is listening to Edward try to tell him, like, she doesn't love you. Like, you're from Forks, bro. Like, you know the area. That's the only reason she grabbed you.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

You can see it, like, hitting. Yep. But then it just kind of doesn't. And, like, when he says, you're dead. Yeah. Also, for some reason, I was like, riley. But.

[Ash]

Oh, that immediately does. I thought that was kind of lame.

[Elena]

I kind of loved it. Okay. I wanted it to go further, though. I hated that it got cut off. Right.

[Ash]

It does. And also, like, the way he dies, though, is cool.

[Elena]

It is.

[Ash]

Because the wool. Is it Jacob that comes?

[Elena]

No, I think it's Seth.

[Ash]

I have no idea. All the wolves just be coming.

[Elena]

I think it's a little baby Seth.

[Ash]

Well, he just, like, rips his hand off. And I love the way they break like glass.

[Livy Dunn]

Yeah.

[Ash]

They shatter like marble.

[Elena]

Well. And I think if we had gotten more of him being, like, in the movie, being, like, so obsessed with Victoria and, like, being so insecure and having this, like, undying loyalty, like, you get a little bit of it in the movie. I just thought it could be a little further because I think then the end scene would have hit a little harder. You would have felt more like, oh, man. Like, you were like. You would have felt a little bit more like that when you were just kind of like. Like, oh, that sucks, bro. Like, I was just gonna, like, bye. Yeah. And I think he was very good at being menacing.

[Ash]

Yeah, I think so.

[Elena]

Because that shot of them all coming out of the water could have gotten really super hokey. Okay. And he's scary in it. Like, his face is scary.

[Ash]

He's for sure scary in it. But that is funny.

[Elena]

That was crazy. And that's the thing. It's like, it could have been. He was more menacing, I think, because he had like. He's played by Xavier Samuel. I think he did a. I think he would be really good at a villain, like a bad guy, because he, he had menacing vibes to him. He just wasn't given enough to work with as far as I'm concerned.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

But yeah, I loved. I thought when they shatter into glass, I'm kind of obsessed with it.

[Ash]

Especially when Victoria does ultimately get killed.

[Elena]

Yeah. But I'm also. Oh, she. Hers is so cool. Hers is really with the head and it's. And it literally looks like crystal.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

And. But which is cool. But I also wonder sometimes why Stephenie Meyer over complicated some of her lore. Because she really wrote herself into like. She like, wrote herself into corners sometimes. Yeah. Because like, they're like supposedly supposed to be like stone, like marble. Yeah. That's why they're cold. That's why all that, like, they're hard.

[Ash]

That's why they're clanking when they.

[Elena]

That's why they're clanking.

[Ash]

Has to listen to his family clinking.

[Elena]

Gotta follow Sarah Gallagher on Tick Tock. I said this in the other ones, but keep doing it because she illustrates that with bowls. And she'll be like, this is all they hear. And she just clinks them together. And it's the funniest. But also they cannot. There's several layers to this. They only kiss closed mouthed in the book.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Because one, he has marble hard lips. So in one of the, in the beginning of the book, she says, and I, and I quote, if I had my way, I would spend the majority of my time kissing Edward. And she says there wasn't anything I'd experienced in my life that compared to the feeling of his cool lips. Marble hard, but always so gentle. Moving with mine. Marble hard. Like, that doesn't sound fun. And then on top of that, they can't open their mouth to kiss the venom because venom is every single one of their body bodily fluids, including their saliva.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

So they can't make out. Yeah. So it's like, why did you do that? Like, why did you make it? Like. And I think. And again, I think this is like a. We're bringing the, the, the desire kind of thing to like a breaking point kind of. Because they can't even open mouth kiss. You have not even made out.

[Ash]

Well, I'm also just like, if you like, you want to spend all your time. Are you just like.

[Elena]

That's the. They're literally just going pecking over and over again.

[Ash]

Because that doesn't sound very enjoyable.

[Elena]

And I'm like, that's not. And they couldn't do that in the movie. So they were like, you know what, the venom thing, we're just gonna like, have to make out. And when it's like, when they can't translate it into film because it's that wild.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

That. You gotta rethink that one. Like, that one. That one's just like, I'm surprised nobody was like, we should rethink this one because it causes a lot of problems later. Just. That's a lot like. I don't understand. I'm like, that. I feel like that could have been taken out. Yeah. I don't think all their saliva needs to be venom. And again, like, she's, you know, she's Mormon, so it's like, there's a lot of, like, very chaste and, you know, like, abstinence favor in favor of abstinence before marriage kind of undertones that we all know are flying throughout this.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

And I think this just adds to it because it's like, not only can they not, but they can't even open mouth kiss because he's got venom in his mouth. Wild. Like, it's. It really is. It's like such a.

[Ash]

Does the venom get into her mouth a little bit in the first one? And doesn't she, like, almost pass out or something?

[Elena]

No, I don't think they. No, because they don't. They don't follow that lore. Like, at least from the mouth, like, that saliva has venom in it. Okay. I think in the movies they don't follow.

[Ash]

No, no. I mean, in the book. Doesn't something weird happen in the book where she almost passes out when they kiss?

[Elena]

Oh, yeah, she does almost pass out when they kiss. But I don't know. I think that's literally just because she. Because they don't open mouth kiss. That's her. Pat. And I think we talked about it. She was almost passing out just from a marble, hard, tight lipped kiss. Yeah. So then again, when I look at it that way and then I say, okay, so when you started making out with Jacob for four pages and you could actually make out with him, you probably did fall in love with him in that moment because you're probably like, holy. Like, what is this?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, what's going on? But. Yeah, so that's. That's wild. That's wild.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And then we still have Confederate Jasper.

[Ash]

Confederate Johnson center gets more Confederate.

[Elena]

Oh, he gets. He. He's. He's Calling people ma' am and suddenly gets more real, real thick drawl. Yeah. And only in some parts, though. Only sometimes.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And when he does, he's just so proud to be a Confederate soul. So proud to be the youngest major in the Texas cavalry.

[Ash]

Man, he lied about his age.

[Elena]

I said, why do, why, why are

[Ash]

we harping on this?

[Elena]

Because that's. It's like he can be from the south from that time period. Yep. And you could do so many different things.

[Ash]

You could have ended up in.

[Elena]

You could have made him just, you know, from. You could have made him from a really fancy ass family and he's just a Southern gentleman, you know. Yeah.

[Ash]

That would nice.

[Elena]

Or you could have made him be so that. Like he was in the war on the Confederate side. Unwillingly.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And that, that he carries that. And that he says, I wasn't for the cause. And it haunts me every day that I had to be part of that.

[Ash]

And maybe that's part of why he has that power of like that healing

[Elena]

emotions and like feel emo. Exactly. Like you could make that a part of his past. Nobody's saying that you, you pretend the Civil War didn't happen, pretend that Confederate soldiers don't exist. Like, like I don't. There's many ways to make that something in his past that you could get away from it, but they just whole chest make him not only a Confederate soldier, a proud past Confederate soldier, but he is so psyched to bring that up again. When he's talking to Bella about this, he says, when I was human, I lived in Houston, Texas. I was almost 17 years old. I was almost 17 years old when I joined the Confederate army in 1861. I lied to the recruiters and told them I was 20, I was tall enough to get away with it.

[Ash]

Jesus Christ.

[Elena]

And then he says, my military career was short lived but very promising. People always liked me. Listen to what I had to say. My father said it was charisma, but he says the Confederate army was new and scrambling to organize itself, so that provided opportunities as well. Oh. And I'm like. So we're like, we're really. He's just like, yup, killed it, Loved it. Let's do it. I'm gonna use my skills from there for this. Because even in the same scene, he's explaining to Bella how he was turned and he's turned by this woman named Maria. And he was. She was this Mexican woman that he had met while he was in the Confederate Army. And he's talking about it and he Says her features were clearly Mexican, but she was pale as marble in the moonlight.

[Ash]

And it's like, there's a lot wrong with that.

[Elena]

There's so much happening there. But I'm also like. So they even double down there by saying. And in the book and in the movie, they double down there by saying. Even though this woman could have had like, like brown skin or olive skin or some type of like, you know, complexion that is different from pale white. Right. She didn't.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

No matter what, you always are just pale white. Yep. You're pale white. As you're talking about a Confederate soldier being turned by. It's just. There's so much. And I'm just like, this is so weird. It is. It's weird that it just gets passed over. And then it's weird that, like, we're supposed to love him and Alice, but I'm like, Alice, what the. He's a Confederate soldier. Like, I don't like. You gotta. And he's. And he's still proud of it. Babe. Not. Not once have I heard that man say, I wouldn't join today. Or like, well, that's the thing.

[Ash]

That's. That's what needed to be.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

There is like, I am this great soldier and you know, I can. You know, it would have been perfect had he struggled leading.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because the whole thing is like, Jasper's helping them. Yeah. Like make. Make an army together to. To face the newborn vampire army. It would have been even better if he struggled getting back into that role because he had so many regrets.

[Elena]

Exactly. It's like. So that he just. He. He had all this regret. He has all this like, shame on his shoulders. And also the Confederacy lost. So he wouldn't technically be a great leader because.

[Ash]

Period.

[Elena]

Because let's be real.

[Ash]

The north remembers.

[Elena]

Let's just be real about it coming out.

[Ash]

She's history, baby.

[Elena]

It is. It is, it is. But it's like, why did I think. I just don't understand why. Why was it brought into his present? Why is he proud of it?

[Ash]

Y.

[Elena]

Why is it a part of everything you could have had? Cuz I don't see something wrong with having somebody in that time period because it's a vampire. They're going to be from all different time periods and people are different in different time periods. So I can see having somebody who was a Confederate. I will even give you that. Which is giving a lot, a lot. Because I personally wouldn't do that. But I can at least try to wrap my brain around it.

[Ash]

Like having it Be historically accurate.

[Elena]

Historically accurate. Having that be his past and having that be part of him becoming what he is today.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

That's the thing, though. Make him grow. Yeah.

[Ash]

There's no.

[Elena]

And I don't. When he's sitting there being like, hell, yeah, Like I was getting back into his youngest major in the Texas Cat Calvary, it's like you're just like, I don't know about that. Like, I don't. I just don't know about that.

[Ash]

It's not good.

[Elena]

So that was weird. I thought that was a whole weird thing.

[Ash]

Another backstory, though, that gets revealed is Rosalie's.

[Elena]

Yes, Rosalies. And this. I have a lot to say about Rosalie's is awful. It's.

[Ash]

But I love her revenge arc.

[Elena]

I absolutely love her revenge arc. I would.

[Ash]

I don't think we got enough of it. It.

[Elena]

No, I don't think we did either.

[Ash]

I would have wished that this was rated R so that I could watch her slaughter all of those.

[Elena]

Oh, it would have been sick.

[Ash]

I wish.

[Elena]

Oh. One thing I noticed in the book, and I forgot about this, Rosalie is far more palatable in the book to. To Bella. Like, she's nicer. She's not nice, but she's, like, nicer, nicer. She's more, like, respectful and less mean girl in the book. I feel like she's got mean girl energy, but, like, like, Nikki Reed, I think, plays her. I. I almost. I like her Rosalie better than the book Rosalie.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Because I think Nikki Reed does, like, just y' all so well. Like, she has that perfect delivery and perfect face for it. Like, she can give such good expressions. So it is different to see Rosalie be so different book and in movie. But we get the. We get her backstory because she kind of storms out when. At least in the movie, when Bell is talking about being turned. When Belle is kind of, like, being weird with Emmett about it.

[Ash]

Yeah. She's low key, flirting. I was like, you're like, maybe don't do that.

[Elena]

She would annoy me, to be quite honest. To my. To my man's like that. But Rosalie in the book is talking about. And you know, she goes on, she tells her, like, this is why I don't think you should be so excited about being turned into a newborn.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And she tells the backstory. She says she came from, like, a middle class family. She was married, but she said she was a looka. That was what she had going for her. She was the most beautiful girl that anyone had ever seen. And she even says in the book, which I literally wrote, wtf? She wrote, she was pleased. And she says, pleased that men's eyes watched me everywhere I went from the year I turned 12.

[Ash]

Oh.

[Elena]

And I said, not good. That's upsetting. That's not good. But. But that aside, she talks about how she was, you know, hooked up with this really fancy son of a banker, Roy King and Royce. King and her were going to get married. They were going to have a lavish wedding. And she says she was never jealous of anybody because she was a diamond. She was like, what did I have to be jealous of? She says, except my friend Vera. And she says, my friend Vera was married to a good man and she had a little boy.

[Ash]

And doesn't she say, like, vera was like, fine.

[Elena]

Oh, she. She says that later. She doesn't say that until later. But she says, and Vera had a little boy, so she was a mother. And she said she wanted that. And she's like. And I was jealous. For the first time, I felt jealous. And she. But she's like, you know what? She's like. And I. You know, I went to her house one night, and as we were leaving, her husband, when he thought I wasn't looking, gave her, like, the sweetest kiss on the cheek. And she said. And for a minute, I thought, like, Royce doesn't do that. And, like, that's not. And then she was like, but whatever. Like, I'm gonna have kids someday with Royce, and it'll be amazing.

[Ash]

I'll get the future that I want.

[Elena]

And this bothered me. This is just, like, a writing thing, probably because I'm, like, deep in writing right now, so I'm like, very. I'm nitpicking all writing. But she wrote, royce was my prince. Someday I would be queen. And I said, you're gonna be his mom. Yeah, like, that's. Somebody should have caught that. Somebody should have been like, oh, nope. You either have to be the princess or he has to be king. Yeah. Like, you can't. Because I was like, that's. That doesn't make sense. No. And that's nitpicky in the book, but

[Ash]

I'm like, no, but I get that.

[Elena]

I was like, that's just weird. Like, I don't get it.

[Ash]

Don't be as mama.

[Elena]

But she says that, you know, she was leaving that night, and she happened to run into Royce and his friends who were drinking on a street corner, and he starts being like, oh, like, look at my future wife. Isn't she hot? And they're like, she's wearing too many clothes. And they literally, like, they assault her. Yeah.

[Ash]

Like, isn't it, like, the night before she's to be married?

[Elena]

I think it's soon, at least. They rape her, and they brutally assault her and leave her to die, like, on the ground. And I think in. At one point, it says that. In the book, he says that when. When they were leaving, she could hear them literally saying, like, you're gonna have to find a new wife. I guess, because they were like, oh, she's dead. We killed her. Like, that's how little they cared.

[Ash]

Nice.

[Elena]

And what she does is she ends up getting turned by Carlisle, who comes across her bleeding. And in the book, she's met Carlisle. Carlisle is the town doctor. Okay. And she doesn't like him. Oh. And she doesn't like him because she said him, his wife, Esme. And who were. They were saying Esme and Edward were sister and brother at that point. And so she said that they all were more beautiful than her. And it irritated her that the men were more beautiful than her. So she didn't like him.

[Ash]

I'm obsessed.

[Elena]

And she says, so when he kind of loves that. So when she come. When he comes to save her, she's like, what the. She's like, of course these are. These more beautiful are gonna save me. So of course, Carlisle turns her into vampire Rosalie. This really got me, because she says she woke up. And she says, shallow as it was, I felt better when I saw my reflection in the mirror the first time. Despite the eyes, I was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. It took some time before I began to blame the beauty for what had happened to me, for me to see the curse of it, to wish that I had been, well, not ugly, but normal, like Vera. So I would have been allowed to marry someone who loved me and have pretty babies. Fuck.

[Ash]

Imagine reading your best friend to filth like that.

[Elena]

Not only did you just read your best friend to filth like that, but you're literally saying, I was cringe that hot girls have it coming. And it's like, I'm sorry, what?

[Ash]

Like, that's you being beautiful had nothing to do with the fact that you were raped by multiple men and killed and left to. Or, like, almost killed and left in the streets. And everything to do with bad men.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Has nothing to do with how beautiful you are. Holy. Nothing holy in a better way to

[Elena]

do that would have had her sit there and say, I blamed me for it.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

I started to blame me for it, but then I realized it wasn't my fault. It's pig ass men who did it.

[Ash]

And that's when I attacked them.

[Elena]

Like, that's when. And that's when I attacked them. Because then after that, she says, this is so good. I picked them off one by one. And in the book, she's like, I've only killed five humans in my life. And she's like, it was all of them. And then she says. And she says, I didn't. I've never drank the blood of a human. She says, in the book, she's the only one besides Carlisle or no, Esme. Okay. That hasn't drank the blood of a human. Wow. And she says. And when she says, I've killed five humans. And she was like, but I didn't want their blood in me like that.

[Ash]

What a queen.

[Elena]

And she says. And she says, as she's saying, I left Royce for last because he knew I was coming because all of his friends had been murdered before him. She goes, so I killed five humans. And then she goes. Goes, oh, seven. Just kidding. Because of the doorman. I was like, I love that. Oh, wait a second. Just kidding.

[Ash]

But I love, too, that she left him for last.

[Elena]

Left him for last and then banged that door down wearing a wedding dress.

[Ash]

That is some ready or not type.

[Elena]

And when she says, I was more theatrical back then, I love it. Mickey Reed eats that line, too. She eats.

[Ash]

Because you can see in her eyes that she's, like, reminiscent.

[Elena]

She's, like, thinking about it, like, that was great.

[Ash]

Oh, how fun.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like that.

[Ash]

I love it. I wish we got so much more of that in the movie.

[Elena]

I would love to see all of their backstory. I want to see Alice. I want to see all of them. I mean, I could. We saw. I'm like, you gave me Jaspers and you don't give me anyone else.

[Ash]

Alice is so sad. She was, like, locked away by her parents.

[Elena]

And I would love to see gifts.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, I want to see Emmett. Like, what the happened? Show me Emmett.

[Ash]

Emmett was getting, like, mauled by a bear or something.

[Elena]

Show me that. Yeah, let's show me what's going on.

[Ash]

And then Esme, I think Esme really sad. She. According to the Illustrated Guide, I think her son died and she jumped off a cliff.

[Elena]

Yeah. There was, like, crazy.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

That one was really. Sorry with that one. It's. Yeah. I would have loved to see that because I. I thought that was awesome.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And I just. And it. I like how it gave you, like, a little. I do love that they gave you a little more to. Why Rosalie is The way she is.

[Ash]

I do too. You know, she's like, why would you give up?

[Elena]

Yeah, my dream. She doesn't do it in the movie, but in the book, she talks about how she could just. Belle is like, why the. Did you. Why do you hate me? Like, that still doesn't answer the question, like, why are you so mean? And she's like, well, she says that. And then she says. And also she was like, I hate to do like. She's like, I'm not trying to, like, be stupid now. And she was like. But she was like, it annoyed me that Edward thought you were better than

[Ash]

I was because they were originally going to be together.

[Elena]

They were. I think Carlisle had wanted a companion for Edward, but Edward wanted nothing to do with the that. And she says. She was like, he wanted. He never showed interest. And she was like. And to be honest, I thought he was annoying too. Like, I didn't want to be with him. And she was like, I still don't. And she's like, it's not cuz I want to be with him. I've just never been the second best.

[Ash]

Never been turned out.

[Elena]

I've never been the. Not the most beautiful.

[Ash]

She's like, I've never been the Vera.

[Elena]

Yeah, I'm not. I'm. I'm the Vera now. Like, what the.

[Ash]

I've never been the normal looking.

[Elena]

Yeah, no, that. Like, she's like, I hate it. But she. And she even says something in the book about how, like, when they met the. Was it the Denali tribe?

[Ash]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Elena]

And she says, like, it's all females. And like, I thought, you know, like. And he didn't show any interest in any of them either. I'm like, what the? Like, we were like, what's going on? Until you came. And later, Bella's, like, super insecure about that. And it's like, did they show interest in you? Like, who's that? And then we find out that one of them did. Like, and I think she comes in Breaking Dawn. I think we see her.

[Ash]

Oh, I'm pretty sure I don't remember any of that.

[Elena]

I can't remember who it is, but. Interesting. But, yeah, I love Rosalie's backstory, except for the fact that she's like, you know what? It was just because I was too hot. If I had been ugly, I would have been fine.

[Ash]

It's like, whoa, everybody's flawed.

[Elena]

That's. That's not it at all, babe.

[Ash]

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[Ash]

Speaking of like relationship dynamics though, we should talk about Emily and Leah and Sam.

[Elena]

Yeah, we should.

[Ash]

That is.

[Elena]

Got some of that up story. Yeah.

[Ash]

Yeah. So Sam is like the leader of the pack, the alpha and he is married or I think engaged.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And she's the one like last time we were talking about like she has the scar on her face because she was too close to her when he phased once. And now I think this is the first time that we're introduced to Leah in the book and the movie.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And she has phased and remember her phasing killed her father.

[Elena]

Yeah. He had a heart attack.

[Ash]

So she gave him a heart attack because he didn't think that. That, like, a girl could face.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because previously it was all just the boys that did. So she originally dated Sam. Yeah, for three years in high school.

[Elena]

Her.

[Ash]

And this is all according to the illustrated guide. Her junior year of high school, he just went missing because I think, like, weird was happening to him. Happening to him because he was going to be phasing soon. And then he did. He comes back after he's phased and is being like, super duper secretive with Leah and won't tell her anything, won't say where he was, like, nothing. And then he goes to a barbecue at her house with her family. And Emily, her second cousin, is there

[Elena]

and, like, best friend.

[Ash]

And literally. Yeah, it literally says they were raised like sisters. Like, they spent all of their free time together like bestie girls. He sees Emily at this party as he's holding Leah's hand and imprints on Emily, drops Leah's hand and walks over to Emily and is like, what the fuck is up, girl?

[Elena]

I would. I will light the place on fire.

[Ash]

What the fuck? Now, this is all according to the illustrated guide. It goes so deep into it. I actually do recommend it. This is the first time that I've looked at it. I bought it myself. So at first Emily's like, fuck, no. That's like, super messed up to my bestie girl cousin sister, Leah.

[Elena]

What the fuck?

[Ash]

Like, I would never do that to her. But then she just, like, can't really help herself.

[Elena]

It seems, well, that he. That night he leaves the party and the next day he breaks up with Leah.

[Ash]

Yeah. Like, inexplicably.

[Elena]

And then starts pursuing Emily. And Emily's like, what the. And she tells Leah, and Leah's like, what the. And in the illustrated guide, it's like she can't help herself but be attracted to Sam either. And I was like, but that's not how you set imprinting up to work.

[Ash]

It's not supposed to work that way

[Elena]

because it's supposed to be like the. The wolf is the one that. That's imprinted and, like, obsessed. He's the one who can't stop, in fact. And I'll find it because what the. I have a note here that says imprinting is gross.

[Ash]

Well, because while you're looking for that in the illustrated guide, it also says that it is physically painful for Sam to be away from Emily now that he's imprinted on her. Like, he can't be far away from her after that.

[Elena]

Like, that whole thing when, like, she, you know, they get together and Emily's like, yeah, like, I was trying to keep it, you know, I. But I couldn't stop. So we had to be together. And I just decided to betray my friend. And it's like, okay. And then she's like, I tried to make it, like, not super uncomfortable for her. Then she asks her to be a bridesmaid in her wedding. Emily, get. Go yourself. Get you. That is not girls girl behavior. Are you kidding me?

[Ash]

If I was Leah, I would say I'd rather shoot my kneecaps out both of them myself than be in your wedding.

[Elena]

Thanks so much.

[Ash]

Yourself.

[Elena]

Guess what? I hope it sucks. Okay? I will not be there. No, I'm not gonna buy an ugly dress for your wedding to my ex boyfriend. You absolute trash. Like, are you kidding me?

[Ash]

I would. Oh, my God, you dick muncher. Like, I would. I would go Walter Frey. Walter Frey and Red Wedding. That I'd kill them all.

[Elena]

I would show up in chainmail and be like, let's go get the Reigns of Castamere playing, everybody.

[Ash]

And then I'd ride away on a dial, y'.

[Elena]

All. I was so mad for her when I read that in the Illustrated Guide. I was like, you, Emily? No. So then in the book, speaking of imprinting, in the book, Jacob mentions that.

[Ash]

I'm sorry, I'm just picturing you in chain mail.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

As Walter Frey just striking up the band.

[Elena]

Let's go. You gotta play Reigns of Castamere.

[Ash]

You do.

[Elena]

So, Quill, one of the wolf pack has met the lovely lady with which he is going to imprint upon. He's imprinted on one of their cousins, Claire. And they're like, yeah. So they're just like, kind of like, Emily doesn't really want him around Claire. And then Belle is like. Belle is like, well, that's weird that Emily would be, like, weird about him being a wolf. Like, is she being, like, stupid? Like, she's. She being engaged to a wolf? Like, what the. And he's like, well, no, it's because Claire is 2 years old. And I was like. And then he goes, don't be judgmental. Don't be judgmental.

[Ash]

Oh, okay.

[Elena]

Don't be judgmental, period. I'm calling the authorities. Like, what do you mean, don't be judgmental? Hello? Nine, one.

[Ash]

That's insane. Hello? Are you.

[Elena]

What? And then he try. He gets real defensive about this. Like, this is. I'm Like, I'm sorry if part of your whole vibe and aura is that your. Your people imprint on babies. Y. And that there's no man imprinting on a boy. There's no girl imprinting on a girl. So it does imply romantic. And also they imply romantic things. Things here. Even though they say there isn't. They always end up together.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And that's the goal.

[Ash]

Right?

[Elena]

So it's like there is romantic here.

[Ash]

It's predatory that.

[Elena]

And so he. And he gets so defensive about it. I'm like, I'm sorry, you need to be a little more open to the fact that this is gonna horrify everybody you tell. Absolutely. You need to understand that. And so he says. She's like, yeah, that's really creepy. Like, I'm not gonna lie to you, bro. Yeah. And he's like, it's not like that. You've got it all wrong. And then he says, I've seen what it's like. There's nothing romantic about it at all. Not for Quill. Not now. And I'm like, nope, that's still predatory, babe. Because he's just waiting until she's of age. That's still weird.

[Ash]

That's even weirder almost.

[Elena]

And it says. It's hard to describe. It's like. It's not like love at first sight really. It's more like. Gravity moves. When you see her, suddenly it's not the earth holding you here anymore. She does the two year old. And you're telling me that's not weird? What the. You're telling me that 2 year old who just. Her pants is holding you to the earth right now?

[Ash]

And she is like. That's what it literally, in the illustrated guide, it said from the inside. There could be nothing more pure than Quill's feelings for Claire.

[Elena]

Shut the fuck up, Stephanie.

[Ash]

You would never do anything to hurt her in any way, mentally or physically. I'm like. Like, mentally, she might be fucked up,

[Elena]

but it's hurting me mentally. Okay.

[Ash]

But it was mandated by the bond between them all. The wolves could experience the nature of his feelings for her. So they knew exactly how deep it was, but also how platonic it was? No, but they knew it was something that outsiders would not be able to understand. So they kept the imprinting as secret as possible. I'm also like, that's even more false.

[Elena]

It's also really nefarious.

[Ash]

But Quill could only be content with his situation as long as Claire was happy and safe.

[Elena]

Safe?

[Ash]

He was satisfied with life. No.

[Elena]

And this is the Thing, they're like, no, it's totally platonic. Really? Because what does this mean when he's saying there isn't, you know, there isn't a toddler on the planet that will be more carefully looked after than that

[Ash]

little girl will be?

[Elena]

That's weird and predatory. And then when she's older and needs a friend, he'll be more understanding, trustworthy and reliable than anyone else she knows. And then when she's grown up, they'll be as happy as Emily and Sam. Okay, so you just ended that together with them.

[Ash]

So why couldn't they end up more like a brother and a sister?

[Elena]

Why can't they do that? Because it's not platonic.

[Ash]

I'm like, do you know what platonic means?

[Elena]

It's because they're not platonic. Nothing about it is. But they always end up together. That's the goal. The goal is for them to end up together. And I hate that they present it like that's not the case. I'm like, that's why the. Did you make that up.

[Ash]

Up. Why did you make that a reason that she. I don't even. I don't even know. Because I think she needed somebody other than Jacob to imprint on a child. Horrifying. Which is that.

[Elena]

Why did she need to imprint at all? Why. Why does this need to be a thing?

[Ash]

Great question.

[Elena]

It's weird.

[Ash]

In the Illustrated God, it literally says. Of lesser concern was the fact that so many members of the pack was. Were imprinting. According to legend, imprinting was a rare event that the majority of werewolves would never experience.

[Elena]

But suddenly everybody's imprinting on everyone.

[Ash]

They blame it on the Cullens.

[Elena]

Oh, please.

[Ash]

They say the pack theorized that the increase in imprinting frequency was due to the continued presence of the large Cullen coven. Their genetic subconscious was compensated, compensating for the constant vampire threat, pushing all of them towards paths that would result in a strengthened werewolf presence.

[Elena]

But you know what that means? Procreation. Which again points to them creating babies by fucking, which means they are not platonic.

[Ash]

Well, and also, of course, that the was dependent upon the truth of their first theory, that imprinted imprinting existed in order to pass on the werewolf gene. A theory that, in light of Jacob's imprinting experience has been called into question.

[Elena]

This is what I'm talking about.

[Ash]

You're just contradicting the.

[Elena]

Literally just contradicting the.

[Ash]

That I just read. Contradiction, contradiction, contradiction.

[Elena]

Because you are saying the whole point of imprinting is to keep that vampire gene going by fucking first spreading Seed. That's not. Not platonic.

[Ash]

First you're saying imprinting is super duper rare and doesn't happen. Then you're saying it's the Cullen's fault. And now it's to spread seed. Unfortunately. But at the same time is somehow platonic.

[Elena]

Platonic.

[Ash]

And also to continue on the legacy. But then it's not because Jacob imprints on a vampire human. Yeah. Named Renesmee. Named Renesmee. Carly.

[Elena]

That's the other Carly.

[Ash]

Can we talk?

[Elena]

Which is Charlie and Carlisle together. So one last thing before we go there. Go. Girl that made me crazy is Bella. And when she tells them about Claire, the two year old.

[Ash]

The two year old that has no

[Elena]

choice in this matter, she says doesn't Claire get a choice here period? And he says of course. But why wouldn't she choose him? And I said okay, you can take several seats right now. Why wouldn't she choose him? Because she's two. I don't know.

[Ash]

And he's got other men on the planet. And she might like someone better because

[Elena]

he's an adult that has known her since she was born.

[Ash]

He's like a weird uncle.

[Elena]

He's a weird uncle that's waiting in the wings to date you. That's weird. Of course she doesn't have to choose him. And it's just like showing like they. They don't have a choice. Because their only choice here is to one give into it. Because why wouldn't you?

[Ash]

Y.

[Elena]

And if you choose not to, then now you have just destined this poor man to a life of loneliness. Cuz he. You are his one true person, not loneliness.

[Ash]

If you don't end up near him like in physical location, he will be in physical pain.

[Elena]

And that's the thing. So it's like. So it is totally on this woman this now. Oh, excuse me. This two year old.

[Ash]

No pressure.

[Elena]

That if she doesn't go with this and doesn't fall in love with him, that he now is just going. You've destined him to loneliness for the rest of his life. To be alone and in pain. Yep. Baby. What the. Come on, come on, come on.

[Ash]

So while we were reading all of that, we were like. And then the Renesmee of all. Which of it all which we're gonna get to in Part two.

[Elena]

Yeah. Or in breaking down.

[Ash]

In Breaking Dawn. But before we get there. So we were just saying that obviously Renesmee is the combination of their mom's names.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And then Carly. Carly is her middle name according to the guide. Which is a combination of the dad's names. So I said, what would my child's name be in that case?

[Elena]

It's pretty iconic.

[Ash]

Are you guys ready?

[Elena]

I don't think you're ready.

[Ash]

Donnie Johto.

[Elena]

Donnie Johto. Goes so hard.

[Ash]

Donnie Johto.

[Elena]

Hello, I am Donnie Johto.

[Ash]

Amazing. Donnie Joto would be Carrie Dack.

[Elena]

Carrie Dak.

[Ash]

Carrie Dak and Donnie Johto. Why do they sound like two?

[Elena]

Like Carrie Dak and Donnie Johto.

[Ash]

I feel like they could go on a grand adventure together. I think they're like, they're like explorers.

[Elena]

They are. I think so.

[Ash]

I like that a lot. I'm never gonna be over Donny Johto.

[Elena]

Goes so hard.

[Ash]

It does.

[Elena]

I love it so much.

[Ash]

It really does.

[Elena]

You know what doesn't go hard though? Victoria's hair in this.

[Ash]

Okay, so let's talk about. Let's talk about the switch up. So.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Who was the original actress that played Rellevra?

[Elena]

Oh, yes. Because she's not in this one.

[Ash]

She got recast.

[Elena]

It's Bryce Dallas Howard.

[Ash]

And it's interesting. So I was looking up, like, why she got recasted because she's literally like, no, no shade to Bryce. Dallas Howard.

[Elena]

Whatever. No, she's just not Victoria. No, she's not.

[Ash]

She's just not. She's not the original Bryce. The original. The original Bryce.

[Elena]

Dallas Howard.

[Ash]

The original Victoria was perfect.

[Elena]

Yes.

[Ash]

So Rochelle ended up getting recasted because there was some like, claws in her, in her contract where she couldn't go do like another movie in the middle of filming.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like for a super long time. But there was.

[Elena]

It's.

[Ash]

I mean, obviously I haven't looked at the contract, but she could, she could do like short stints.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So she accepted a movie that was going to be. I think there was like a couple days overlap during the three month period where they were going to be filming.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Eclipse. And apparently they were very upset about it even though she was within her rights to do it. And they recasted her and she was shocked, I guess.

[Elena]

I think that was the dumbest move imaginable.

[Ash]

I do too. Because here's the thing. It was said to have only been a few days over a three month filming course. Victoria's not even in the movie that.

[Elena]

No, she's not.

[Ash]

So you could have just filmed her scenes when she either like before she left or when she got back.

[Elena]

And to not give her. She's built up this character for two.

[Ash]

Two movies.

[Elena]

And she's. She's Victoria. I think she's amazing at it. It. And to not give her that end, that is so shitty.

[Ash]

Because that's the thing too. It's like, this is the end of her anyway.

[Elena]

So let her finish out the character. Like, I thought dumb as hell. Because also, no shade to Bryce Dallas Howard. She did what she could do.

[Ash]

They don't look alike.

[Elena]

They don't look alike. And it's also like the hair drove me crazy because. Because Victoria's hair in the first two movies, she has like five feral. It's.

[Ash]

Well, and it's like tousled, like.

[Elena]

And I live in the woods. I've been running through the woods. Kind of like big, wavy. Just like. That's the thing. It's not natural.

[Ash]

It's not like curls.

[Elena]

No, it's waves. And it's like. It's just like. It's like feral in like a gorgeous way. You know what I mean?

[Ash]

Like a fairy creature.

[Elena]

Yeah, like, she is a fairy creature. And it's like that and it makes sense and it works. And then in this one, they have it like. Like super red. It's like. And spiral curled and crunchy.

[Ash]

Like, she literally looks like she took

[Elena]

mousse and scrunched her hair. And it's shorter and it just doesn't work. And it doesn't. It's not. And I'm like, you just took me right out of that storyline with that.

[Ash]

And they also like it. Again, no shade to Bryce Dallas Howard. But she plays the role completely different than Rochelle did. It's like, like softer and like, not as edgy.

[Elena]

And when she has a look of like. Like what?

[Ash]

And she sounds that way too.

[Elena]

And I feel like Victoria's like this slinky cat.

[Ash]

Like, like, yes, like.

[Elena]

And she's more. She is. I've never seen Victoria in the first two book. In the two first two books or the first two movies be like, what? Like wide eyed, like, I'm sorry, Mr. What? Like, that's the idea that the third one gives and it just doesn't work.

[Ash]

And you don't understand why somebody on set wasn't like, let's try that again in like a different way.

[Elena]

Like, I don't understand.

[Ash]

Kept Rochelle.

[Elena]

And even at the end, I was like, this isn't satisfying because I haven't seen her in two movies, so it makes me upset. Yeah, I really didn't like it.

[Ash]

I so wish that we had the end with the real Victoria.

[Elena]

It's true.

[Ash]

With the real Victoria. But please stand up.

[Elena]

Truly. And another thing in this movie, just to like, close all this out. Is Renee continues being the worst mother.

[Ash]

Why is Renee not at graduation?

[Elena]

She didn't come to graduation.

[Ash]

And she gives Bella a gift when cuz. So Bella goes to visit her mom because the Cullens actually bought her round tip, round trip flight, because she's going to be changed soon, so this is probably going to be the last time she sees her mom.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because also, apparently her mom's not coming to her high school graduation or going

[Elena]

to see her in college.

[Ash]

Like, what?

[Elena]

She was like, I'm not gonna come visit you. I was like, what the.

[Ash]

She's like, well, you're gonna. Well, Renee's a. According to the Illustrated Guide, too, because she hates the sun. She hates the rain.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So if she's not near the sun, she can't.

[Elena]

She just won't do it. Yeah. It's like, get over it.

[Ash]

So she and Charlie apparently, like, met while she was on a road trip. They got married. They had this, like, whirlwind romance, and he was taking care of his parents. His mom had Alzheimer's and his dad had some kind of mobility issues. So they lived, like, down the street and were taking care of them. And then she just decided that she couldn't handle life and Forks anymore. And she was experiencing postpartum depression, too, apparently. And also, remember, this is a fictional character.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So she up and left Charlie and. And wanted him to move with her. And it literally says she knew it wasn't kind to ask him to abandon his parents.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like, what do you want him to do?

[Ash]

So he was like, no, I can't do that. He's also their only child. Yeah. So she was like, okay, well, like, I'm going to go move back to California.

[Elena]

I'm going to take our baby and leave.

[Ash]

And she did.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And then also, she just, like, wasn't really a mom when Bella was growing up. The Illustrated Guide says that Bella was doing their bookkeeping by age 10.

[Elena]

Yeah. And her mom, like, never, like, didn't know how to cook. Like, wouldn't make the meals. Like, literally didn't know, like, she had to do everything herself. Like, when you read the book and you read some of the things, like, like, she. She was the parentified child.

[Ash]

Oh, absolutely.

[Elena]

It's.

[Ash]

It even says in the Illustrated Guide that she didn't object to Bella leaving because she knew that she would be okay in Forks.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And, like, because she had found this new man.

[Elena]

Yeah. Phil. She's got her baseball player Phil.

[Ash]

It's like. And he's adventurous.

[Elena]

Like, she Is I was like, wow,

[Ash]

you're a mom and you probably shouldn't have had kids.

[Elena]

It's true. And you know what? The last thing I have to say is, is I saw this pointed out by someone and I was like, I can't get over how much of a fumble this is that they didn't use the. The line from the book, which is when Jacob and Bella are talking about, like, how he's like, you love me, but you love him, like, blah, blah. So they're talking about how, like, you know, he can deal with, like. She's saying, like, you know, I have all this stuff going on. And he's like. And basically refers to them as like, the clouds in my life. Life. And he's like, I can deal with that. He says, the clouds I can handle, but I can't fight with an eclipse. And Edward is the eclipse.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

And that's why the book is named Eclipse. Right. And I was like, why didn't you leave that in the movie? Yeah, It's a good line, too. It is. So I'm like, that was a weird thing to skip. That's. I feel weird.

[Ash]

But also, like, literally the perfect way to end this. Yeah. Look at you. I didn't even know you were gonna say that.

[Elena]

The clouds I can handle, but I can't fight with an eclipse.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Elena]

Yeah. How.

[Ash]

That is a great line.

[Elena]

It is a great line.

[Ash]

I love going over these movies more than I love Oxygen.

[Elena]

Breaking dawn part one and two is going to be so unhinged that I can't even. Like, this was subdued. Yeah. Compared to what?

[Ash]

Cuz we. I think this just wasn't like, our favorite one.

[Elena]

Yeah, it's not my favorite one, so it really doesn't hit as hard.

[Ash]

But Breaking dawn, good.

[Elena]

Goes.

[Ash]

I also was just saying to Elena, I can't remember the last time that I saw Breaking Dawn.

[Elena]

No, I can't either.

[Ash]

I had last Halloween. I watched Twilight, New Moon, and I watched half of Eclipse. I never finished it. So we finished it for this. But Breaking Dawn 1 and 2, I don't. I. The last time I saw those might have been the first time I watched them. Yeah.

[Elena]

I don't know that I've ever re.

[Ash]

Watched them.

[Elena]

I don't know if I have.

[Ash]

I'm so excited.

[Elena]

So this is going to be a

[Ash]

real experience and we're going to do two separate episodes.

[Elena]

Yeah, we'll do two separate ones. Keep it going.

[Ash]

Hell yeah.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

All right, brothers, well, we'll see you then. And we hope you enjoyed this.

[Elena]

We hope you did.

[Ash]

And we hope you keep listening.

[Elena]

And we hope you keep it weird,

[Ash]

but not so weird that like you

[Elena]

act like anyone in this book.

[Ash]

Period.

[Elena]

Literally. Why have I asked my H Vac guy I found on angie.com to change

[Ash]

my grandpa's trachea tube?

[Elena]

I was so amazed at how he replaced our air ducts, I knew I

[Ash]

could trust him to change Pop Pop's tube.

[Elena]

I think we should call a doctor Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail]

[Livy Dunn]

this is a Monday.com ad.

[Ash]

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[Ash]

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[Elena]

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