Blanche Taylor Moore, The Oldest Woman on Death Row (Part 1)

Summary

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Morbid Podcast Summary

Blanche Taylor Moore: The Oldest Woman on Death Row (Part 1)

Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Date: June 29, 2026

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Main Theme

This episode delves into the dark and twisted life of Blanche Taylor Moore, the oldest woman on death row in America. Alaina leads the discussion, with Ash providing reactions and commentary. Part 1 focuses on Blanche's troubled family background, two tumultuous marriages, workplace ambition, extramarital affairs, suspicious deaths, and the web of secrets, fires, and possible poisonings that trailed her. The hosts weave together humor and horror as they uncover Blanche's ascent from beleaguered daughter to a woman surrounded by scandal and death.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Post-Live Show Vibes (03:10–03:25)

• Ash and Alaina return home after a major live show, feeling elated and full of appreciation for their fans.
• “You guys made me feel like Harry Styles.” – Alaina (02:07)
• “My cup is full to the brim right now.” – Alaina (02:28)

2. Introducing Blanche Taylor Moore (04:46)

• Alaina kicks off a two-part deep dive into Blanche’s life.
• “Spoiler alert… the oldest woman on death row in the United States.” – Alaina (04:58)

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3. Blanche’s Family & Early Life (05:04–08:29)

• Born 1933, Concord, North Carolina; fifth of seven children.
• Father, Parker “P.D.” Kaiser: millworker, itinerant “primitive preacher,” unfaithful, spent household money on sex workers (06:16).
• Family moved frequently; mother Flani worked multiple jobs to support them.
• P.D. enforced hyper-strict moral codes while hypocritically neglecting/abusing the family.

  “He was very, very strict on his own children… Impossible standards.” – Alaina (07:37)

• Children forbidden from socializing, joining clubs, or after-school activities.

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4. Adolescence & Early Relationships (08:29–11:13)

• Teenage Blanche gets a job and starts dating James Taylor (not the “Sweet Baby James” singer, the hosts joke at length, 08:43–09:09).
• James’ family provides Blanche with warmth she never had at home.
• Downside: James shares similarities with Blanche’s father—a drinker, gambler, prone to violent temper.

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5. Marriage, Work, and Social Climbing (11:13–16:44)

• James drafted into the army; after returning, they marry in 1952.
• First child complicates finances; Blanche becomes a popular Kroger cashier, known for her charm with men.

  “Men lined up behind her register just so they could look at her.” – Alaina quoting author Shoots (12:40)

• Rumors swirl at work about her playing politics and possibly stealing small sums.
• Blanche achieves coveted “head cashier” role (14:55) despite being disliked by co-workers.

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6. Family Instability & Declining Marriage (16:44–19:31)

• Blanche’s mother divorces P.D., causing further social shame.
• Marriage to James deteriorates: loss of attraction, his drinking & gambling escalate, and arguments intensify.

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7. Affairs & Increasing Recklessness (17:56–24:18)

• Blanche openly begins an affair with her boss, Raymond, and others. She covers nights away with Tupperware parties.
• Notably bold flirtation at work:

  “She might be mid-sentence talking about Jesus in the Bible, and she would stop and mutter to a co-worker, ‘Man, I’d like to see the dick on that guy.’” – Alaina (20:44)

• Ash and Alaina react in disbelief and amusement to Blanche's frankness and lack of shame.

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8. James Matures; Blanche Escalates (24:32–26:35)

• James reforms, becomes a devoted father; Blanche grows more unhappy and critical.
• She humiliates and belittles James, even as he tries to be better.

  “If she wasn’t complaining about how much money he was spending… she was criticizing him for… how much weight he had put on since they got married.” – Alaina (25:36)

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9. Father’s Suspicious Death (26:53–29:14)

• P.D. Kaiser dies (supposedly heart attack + emphysema).
• Symptoms at death: paralysis, burning sensation, internal pain, garlic breath—classic for arsenic poisoning.
• No investigation due to hospital environment and lack of suspicion.

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10. Violence, Decline & James’s Death (30:01–37:55)

• Marriage devolves into public altercations. Notable incident: Blanche is dragged by James’s car on way to church (30:34).
• James suffers mysterious illness: blisters, swelling, hair loss—doctors baffled.
• The night before his death, Blanche insists he eats ice cream (35:01). He’s then violently ill.

  “Brought him some ice cream and convinced him to at least have some of it.” – Alaina (35:01)

• He dies overnight; Blanche calmly notifies everyone—including her lover—before calling emergency services (36:17).
• Death is recorded as a heart attack, no investigation into symptoms.

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11. Aftermath: Blanche Moves On (38:02–40:20)

• Blanche quickly resumes her relationship with Raymond Reed.
• Continues to steal from Kroger (cash missing, unexplained expensive purchases).

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12. A Pattern of Fires and Insurance Claims (48:10–51:49)

• Two suspicious house fires occur in quick succession. Blanche blames a “pervert arsonist,” collects insurance payouts, and moves into a new mobile home.
• Fire investigators note oddities (e.g., lingerie scattered, candle burning).

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13. Workplace Manipulation and a Sexual Harassment Lawsuit (52:57–56:06)

• Cousins workplace conflict into leverage for more time off.
• Initiates a sexual relationship with new boss Robert Hutton to secure job/benefits.
• Files $13.8 million lawsuit against Hutton and Kroger for sexual harassment, assault, and emotional distress (54:08).

  “She filed a sexual harassment lawsuit against Kroger. For 13.8 million in superior court.” – Alaina (54:08)

• Hutton, a notorious predator, is forced to resign; Kroger settles for $250,000 (56:04).

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14. Another Affair: Dwight Moore, the Pastor (56:32–60:14)

• Blanche meets Dwight Moore at Easter service.
• They begin a secret affair, as Moore is new to town and recently divorced over his own scandal.
• The relationship is concealed due to Blanche’s ongoing lawsuit and fear for Moore’s position.

  “Maybe Blanche saw something of herself in Dwight Moore’s story. Or maybe she just liked the way he looked. Who’s to say? She liked his face.” – Alaina (59:34)

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15. Raymond Reed’s Mysterious Illness & Death (60:15–64:08)

• Raymond becomes ill: blisters, burning, numbness—first diagnosed as shingles, then Guillian-Barre.
• Spends months in and out of hospital, dies five months later.
• Blanche appears distraught publicly but is quick to deliver his safe (now missing valuables) to his sons.

  “Everything was gone.” – Alaina (64:08)

• Symptoms echo those that killed both Blanche’s father and James.

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16. Cliffhanger Ending (64:24–65:07)

• The hosts pause: “But that, my friends, is where we’re gonna end for part one.” – Alaina (64:24)
• Promise more suspicious illnesses, deaths, and revelations in Part 2.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Blanche does not give a fucks. Her basket is barren.” – Alaina (18:13)
• “She might be mid-sentence talking about Jesus…and mutter to a co-worker, ‘Man, I’d like to see the dick on that guy.’” – Alaina (20:44)
• “If she wasn’t complaining about how much money he was spending on his hobbies or the kids, she was criticizing him for…how much weight he had put on since they got married.” – Alaina (25:36)
• “Symptoms…classic for arsenic poisoning… burning, paralysis, garlic breath.” – Alaina (28:49)
• “She was like, no [to marriage]. And then he asked her again, and she was like, no. And then he kept asking…and she continued to say no.” – Alaina & Elena (46:50–46:58)
• “Remember: Blanche is the oldest woman on death row.” – Elena (55:33)

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Timestamps to Important Segments

• 04:46 – Episode theme: Blanche Taylor Moore preview.
• 05:04–08:29 – Blanche’s childhood and family background.
• 08:29–11:13 – Teenage years and meeting James Taylor.
• 11:13–14:02 – Marriage and Kroger cashier job.
• 17:56–18:52 – First extramarital affair, increasing infidelity and brazenness.
• 26:53–29:14 – Suspicious death of Blanche’s father.
• 30:01–37:55 – Marital collapse, violence, James’s symptoms and death.
• 38:02–39:14 – Aftermath: Blanche’s behavior post-James, workplace theft.
• 48:10–51:49 – Two suspicious house fires.
• 52:57–56:06 – Sexual harassment lawsuit against Kroger & Robert Hutton.
• 56:32–60:14 – Blanche’s affair with Pastor Dwight Moore.
• 60:15–64:08 – Raymond Reed’s sickness and death.
• 64:24–65:07 – Part one cliffhanger.

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Tone & Style

• Dark humor and exasperated empathy: Hosts mock Blanche’s callous behavior, express genuine concern for victims.

  “Blanche is really out here.” – Elena (64:31)

• Blend of deep research and irreverence (e.g., riffing on Tupperware parties and “fiery perverts”).
• Recurrent reminders of Blanche’s future: “oldest woman on death row” suffuses conversation with ominous foreshadowing.

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Episode Flow

The hosts bounce between Blanche’s life chronology, their own reactions, and contemporary commentary. They balance the roster of Blanche’s victims with comedic asides (“fiery pervert”), pop culture references (Twilight, James Taylor), and feminist takes on midcentury social norms, keeping things lively while never losing the horror at the core of the story.

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For Next Episode

Part 2 promises further revelations about Blanche’s crimes, more deaths, and the culmination of her life as America’s oldest woman on death row.

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Summary prepared for those seeking an in-depth account without all the banter. For the full experience—with sidebars, asides, and humor—listen to the episode itself!

Transcript

[Alaina]

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[Elena]

Clorox Toilet Wand. It's all in one.

[Alaina]

Clorox Toilet Wand. It's all in one. Hey, what does all in one mean? The Caddy, the wand, the Preloaded pad. There's a cleaner in there, inside the pad. So Clorox Toilet Wand is all I need to clean a toile.

[Elena]

You don't need a bottle of solution

[Alaina]

to get into the starlet revolution.

[Elena]

Clorox Clean feels good.

[Alaina]

Use as directed. Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash.

[Elena]

I'm Elena.

[Alaina]

And this is morbid.

[Elena]

This is morbid, honey.

[Alaina]

It's morbid. Post Radio City.

[Elena]

It.

[Alaina]

We had a fucking blast.

[Elena]

We did. It was amazing meeting you guys afterwards. It was so much fun.

[Alaina]

It was so much fun. Yeah, Meeting everybody afterwards was. You guys made me feel like Harry Styles.

[Elena]

That's exactly what I felt like.

[Alaina]

Yeah, we were like the Beatles or something.

[Elena]

It's true.

[Alaina]

It was so much fun.

[Elena]

And my parents got to come.

[Alaina]

Ma and Papa had the best time.

[Elena]

They did. They had. They were beaming seeing Ma in New York.

[Alaina]

Ma hadn't been to New York City in like decades and had like the best time. We got to, like, do a really fun dinner afterwards with all of our friends. Like, my cup is full to the brim right now.

[Elena]

Now it truly is.

[Alaina]

But it's time to get back.

[Elena]

Yeah, I'm happy to get back to normaly a little bit.

[Alaina]

We spent so much time planning that live show. I think the last weeks of our lives were spent just like, going over every single detail.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

To get it all perfect. And now.

[Elena]

And there's just like, the production, everything. It was a bigger. It's such a big venue that it was such a bigger production.

[Alaina]

Mara. Production. I just have to shout that Marcus and Sophie, specifically.

[Jeffrey]

Cheese.

[Elena]

Truly.

[Alaina]

Not cheese.

[Elena]

Geez. Truly.

[Alaina]

They were the sweetest people I think I've ever met in my life. And, like, took such good care of us. Took such good care of the stage. And, like, just so much went into that.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So thank you to everybody who made that happen and thank you to everybody who showed up to support us. It really means a lot to us. You guys rule. You do. But now it's time to get back to, like, our. Our normal day to day, our regular morbid schedule.

[Elena]

We're back. We're home.

[Alaina]

Mercury is in Gatorade. And we saw something that said. Or I should say, it wants you to slow down. I should say Mercury is retrograde. I have to stop saying in retrograde. As a student of astrology, it's retrograde because that's just saying Mercury is in backwards.

[Elena]

Yeah, it's in backwards. You know, but it's just. It is.

[Alaina]

It's just backward.

[Elena]

It's in backwards right now. And it. And it said, according to Elisa Kelly, who I trust.

[Alaina]

Oh, yeah, trust in Elisa Kelly.

[Elena]

She said, it wants you to slow down. And I said, I'm gonna take that to heart, babe, because I'm like a missile right now, and I. I need to slow down.

[Alaina]

Frankly, I'd like to slow down. Truly, mama's tired. Truly, mama is tired. I'm exhausted, and my asthma's flaring up again. My asthma, my asthma. And the humidity. It said, flare up.

[Elena]

Flare up.

[Alaina]

Give that bitch some mucus in her throat and a cough.

[Elena]

That's what it said. I don't know. You sounded like Donald Trump.

[Alaina]

Oh, I've never been more insulted in my life.

[Ad]

Wow.

[Elena]

It sounded like it. Yucky. It did.

[Alaina]

Well, how do we move away from that?

[Elena]

Any. Anyway, anything else? Do you want me to.

[Alaina]

Should we just get right into the story?

[Guest/Caller]

I.

[Alaina]

Actually, we probably should because I do have a long one today.

[Elena]

Yeah, let's go.

[Alaina]

And I know, like, Jeffrey has his timer out.

[Jeffrey]

Exactly.

[Alaina]

Here we go, Jeff. We're starting.

[Elena]

Here we go.

[Alaina]

All right, so I have a two parter. This is obviously part one. Welcome. So we're gonna be talking about Blanche Taylor Moore, and Blanche Taylor Moore is. Spoiler alert. Just to really start you off to know what you're getting into. The oldest woman on death row. In the United States.

[Elena]

Oh, that's what we're getting into. Okay.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Elena]

All right.

[Alaina]

That's where we're headed. Let's go. Before she headed to death row, she was born on February 17, 1933, in Concord, North Carolina. She was the fifth of seven children born to Parker P.D. kaiser and his w. Wife, Flani.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

I'm obsessed with that.

[Elena]

Okay. Flawney. Okay. Flawney. Flaunted. All right.

[Alaina]

Now, technically, PD the dad was a millworker, but his real passion was preaching the gospel.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

Preaching the gospel. PD Proudly fell into the category of primitive preachers, which was kind of a group of untrained, definitely unpaid Baptist preachers who traveled around to rural locations like campgrounds to preach, which only makes me think of True Detective season one.

[Elena]

Yes, absolutely. Like, what a.

[Alaina]

Like tent revivals.

[Elena]

What an iconic season of television.

[Alaina]

True Detective is so good. I love season one, truly. Now, according to author Jim Shutes, who we will link in the show notes and who we have used before, great author, PD Preached an intense, monotonous, sing song, literal interpretation of the Bible.

[Elena]

Oh, okay.

[Alaina]

I don't really know exactly what that means.

[Elena]

It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot.

[Alaina]

But, you know, it felt like a lot.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

He always seemed to find a way to make money, which was a good thing, you know, all right, he was working, or he got donations, always be closing. But he rarely used that money on his own family. The work of raising children and paying the bills basically just fell completely on Flannie, who worked full time to just make do, basically. Basically just to keep a head. I almost just said a head over their roofs. A roof over their heads. Now, of the 40 or so dollars a week that she made, she always gave half of that to her husband, who, according to Schutz, never made any secret of the fact that he was spending it all on young girls.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Alaina]

So that wasn't awesome.

[Elena]

That was terrible.

[Alaina]

Now, in 1942, when Blanche was only nine years old, the family moved to Burlington. Burlington did offer better job prospects, but the real reason for the move was probably because Petey couldn't manage to stay employed for very long, and he kind of just ran out of options for employ in and conquered. Now, despite his own proclivity for sex workers and gambling and drinking and generally not spending time with his own young family, he was very, very strict on his own children when he was around, and he had. I don't even want to call them high standards, because it's impossible standards. Impossible standards. The family didn't have much flowing in. So the girls were usually dressed in tattered rags and hand me downs, essentially. But he would routinely inspect their outfits to make sure that they were, quote, unquote, sufficiently modest.

[Elena]

Come on.

[Alaina]

Which is also like, come on, guys. You're the biggest hypocrite ever.

[Elena]

Yeah, you gotta. You gotta make sure.

[Alaina]

You just have to be sure that everybody's modest, even though you're clearly not.

[Elena]

Modesty is the most important thing. So important. Yeah. Yeah.

[Alaina]

Fuck off. Now, the high standards didn't just end with what the kids looked like, what they were wearing, their appearances. They also were completely forbidden from participating in any after school activities.

[Elena]

That's so fucked up. That actually pisses me off. Truly, Like, a lot. Like, what good does that do?

[Alaina]

They couldn't socialize with their friends. They couldn't join a club. Nothing like that. They had to come right home from

[Elena]

school and probably pray that that's fucked up now.

[Alaina]

When Blanche reached her early teens, she was finally given enough freedom to get a job in one of the local shops downtown. Probably because they needed more money and less about, like, her happiness.

[Elena]

Exactly.

[Alaina]

But more time outside of the house also meant that she was able to socialize a little bit.

[Elena]

But.

[Alaina]

And when she was about 15 or 16, she started dating a boy named James Taylor. No, it's not that one.

[Elena]

Thank you. I said of Tanglewood, not of Tanglewood fame.

[Alaina]

Not Sweet Baby James.

[Elena]

Not Sweet Baby James.

[Alaina]

I fuck so heavy with that James Taylor, though.

[Elena]

James Taylor. Like our James Taylor. Like, collectively all of our James Taylor. He is the most soothing voice. He's the voice of a generation.

[Alaina]

He is. But usually I feel he's the voice of many generations.

[Elena]

I think he is, too. You hear a James Taylor song, like, a specific one that, like, you just.

[Alaina]

You just hear that beginning. Feels guitar, Right?

[Elena]

It does. Like, that old. To be honest, my nervous system has been a little alight lately. Yeah. I'm gonna listen to a James Taylor song, and I bet I'm gonna feel right as rain.

[Alaina]

You probably should. And I think you will.

[Elena]

I will. Period. Thank you for that.

[Alaina]

You bet. So she met James Taylor. Not V, but a. A James Taylor. In a lot of ways, James and Blanche did seem like a really good fit for each other. In public, he was a good Christian boy. He doted on his mama. He did well in school. But in private, he loved a crass joke and a cold beer. So he had two sides to him.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Within a few weeks of starting their relationship, James introduced Blanche to his family, which was kind Of a revelation for her because she knew most people came from stable and happy homes, but she had never seen one up close or experienced one.

[Elena]

That's so sad.

[Alaina]

It is really sad. But the cool thing was that in the beginning of their relationship, she kind of, like, enmeshed in this family, and they loved her.

[Elena]

I love her.

[Alaina]

And they supported her, and she, like, got her cup filled that way.

[Elena]

Nice.

[Alaina]

Now, by that time, she had actually quit school and was just always looking for a good reason not to be home at her house. So she spent a lot of time at the Taylor house. And apparently her and James's mom, Isla, were very close. When it came to James's relationship with Blanche, I told you the good things about him. But it was also hard not to see the similarities between her boyfriend James and her father. James wasn't dismissive. He wasn't controlling, not in the way that her dad was. But he was a drinker and he did love to gamble. And he was also, at times, according to shoots, sentimental, childish, and given to eruptions of a violent temper.

[Elena]

That's not great.

[Alaina]

He had very good facets of his personality, but he had flaws and a lot of flaws. Some real flaws, as we all do, but he really needed to figure out how to reign those down.

[Elena]

Yeah, when your flaws start, you know,

[Alaina]

becoming violent and when they start, like,

[Elena]

messing with someone else, like, affecting someone else. Yeah, those are flaws you gotta take care of. That's the thing, you know?

[Alaina]

So not long after the outbreak of the Korean War in 1950, James was drafted and he was sent to the Pacific to serve in the army. He returned a year later to Burlington. He proposed to Blanche and they got married on May 29, 1952. At the same time, he found work restoring and refinishing fine furniture, which I feel like would be such a fun job. Yeah, I love furniture videos on TikTok.

[Elena]

Yeah, I feel like that would be very, like, fulfilling.

[Alaina]

Yeah. And like, sort of at the same time, too. Yeah, he was really, really good at the job. But the income was modest. It really was barely enough to cover the bills of two people. So when Blanche gave birth to their daughter 1953, the family really started to struggle financially. But never one to shy away from hard work. Soon after her daughter was born, Blanche got a job as a checkout clerk at the local Kroger grocery store. And she was an immediate hit with all of the customers.

[Elena]

Dang.

[Alaina]

Former co worker Brenda Green told a reporter in 1989. She was always pleasant, always outgoing to the customers, and she wasn't Just a hit with the customers. She was really popular with the men

[Elena]

who came into the store.

[Alaina]

She had a way about her.

[Elena]

Her name's Blanche.

[Alaina]

I know. It's just, you know, comes with the territory.

[Elena]

It does.

[Alaina]

Author shoot. Said men lined up behind her register just so they could look at her. She sang to each one in her busy little chittering bird voice, always with some expression of concern for their personal affairs.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Alaina]

So she was a little bit of a flirt.

[Elena]

I was gonna say. She was kind of. She's digging it.

[Alaina]

She was.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

She was doing her thing.

[Elena]

Now, I know nothing about this case, by the way, so.

[Alaina]

Well, she's the oldest woman on death row, so.

[Elena]

So there's that.

[Alaina]

Just like I said, we can go with that. Keep that with you.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So at that time, the roles for Kroger employees were strictly segregated. Women filled the customer service jobs in the front of the store. Men worked the management, the stockroom, butcher roles in the back.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

Now, given the hierarchy, the highest that a female employee at Kroger could generally expect to make, like the highest position was head cashier.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

It was kind of like a front end manager position. They were, like, responsible for supervising the cashiers and the bag boys just keeping everything in check. We've seen him.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Now, that was the job.

[Elena]

We've seen him. We love them.

[Alaina]

We've seen him. We love him. Yeah. That was the job that Blanche was really determined to get. And once she set her mind to something, she did usually achieve it. Now, I said that the customers loved her co workers. Not so much. E. Outwardly, she seemed to get along with people pretty fine, you know, but a lot of her co workers didn't like the way that she played obvious office politics.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Alaina]

And they saw that she was very clearly intent on climbing the ladder to get that head cashier position, which, like,

[Elena]

that's bound to happen in any kind of, like, corporate or, you know, any retail environment.

[Alaina]

One people are all vying for the same job so that it kind of creates like a.

[Elena]

It's competitive, not a great environment.

[Alaina]

Yeah, but that wasn't just it. Some of the cashiers suspected that Blanche was stealing from the company.

[Elena]

Oh, that's not good.

[Alaina]

According to Shoots, Blanche had a penchant for using loaner registers and for moving around using other checkers drawers rather than following the safe and sure procedures designed so that each cashier would check out on a register that was entirely her own responsibility for each shift.

[Elena]

Eek.

[Alaina]

She just kind of floated amongst them.

[Ad]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Now, despite the rumors of her embezzling small sums of money. By 1959, Blanche did work her way up at Kroger. And she got that head cashier position.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah, she got it.

[Alaina]

And the promotion couldn't have come at a better time because just a few months after she moved up, she gave birth to the couple's second daughter. So the extra income was an asset. Oh, hey, you know, it seemed things were going pretty good for Blanche in 1950.

[Elena]

Seems like it, yeah.

[Alaina]

But her personal life was starting to unravel a bit. That same year, her mother, Flani, filed for divorce from P.D. citing her husband's abandonment as the reason. P.D. kaiser had basically left his wife and children a few years earlier to, quote, find himself a younger woman.

[Elena]

Oh, excuse you.

[Alaina]

And he also didn't contribute a dime to the support of their children since he left them. And now, even though all of that is true, that he was just a prick at the time, going through a divorce would have been a pretty shameful experience. Which is silly, but it just was. And sharing the details of her failed marriage in such a public form wouldn't just be embarrassing, but humiliating. Not just for Flanny, but also for the children like Blanche. Even like the adult children now. Luckily, the judge was sympathetic and ordered petey to pay $25 a week in child support, which was dropped then to $10 a week the following year. And to everyone's surprise, though, he did pay the support.

[Elena]

Huh.

[Alaina]

Yeah. So that is interesting.

[Elena]

I didn't see that coming.

[Alaina]

At least he paid it, you know, the bare minimum. But the public dissolution of her parents marriage, which became then a big source of gossip in the small town, was kind of a source of shame for Blanche. And on top of that, things in her own marriage weren't really going very well. After the birth of her second baby, she wasn't really interested in being with James romantically. And since getting married, in her view, he had changed quite a bit physically and she just wasn't feeling very attracted to him.

[Elena]

Oh, okay.

[Alaina]

In addition, the gambling and the drinking that when he was younger made him seem wild and fun and carefree now made him seem irresponsible and reckless and probably reminded her of her father.

[Elena]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Now, even though he knew he was being judged, it didn't really seem like he gave a shit at this time. James kept drinking, he kept gambling. And he also had picked up a new hobby since he got back from Korea and just spent a lot of his weekends editing tape recordings of sermons from the Glen Hope Baptist Church so that the Tapes could be sent overseas for missionary work, which, like, cool. Like, you know, you're getting a little extra cash by doing that, but you're also spending all your time away from your family by.

[Elena]

That's the thing.

[Alaina]

Working, gambling and drinking.

[Elena]

Yeah, it's like one. A couple of those things could go

[Alaina]

right, you know, like, work. For sure. Keep that up.

[Elena]

Gambling and drinking.

[Alaina]

If you could affect you negatively, you got to stop.

[Elena]

Maybe cut that back.

[Alaina]

Cut it back.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Now. So by 1962, the distance between James and Blanche had become so evident that even strangers would have felt the tension between them. It wasn't just a lack of physical intimacy or the fact that he was just never home. But Blanche also found other ways to spend her time in the absence of her husband.

[Elena]

Oh, boy.

[Alaina]

That year, she started an affair with her boss, Raven.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Alaina]

And she barely tried to hide it, not only from her husband, but, like, from anyone.

[Elena]

Yeah, she doesn't give a.

[Alaina]

She really didn't give a single.

[Elena]

That doesn't shock me.

[Alaina]

One theme of this story that you'll find is that Blanche does not give a fucks.

[Elena]

Are nowhere to be found. No.

[Alaina]

Her basket is barren. And that sounded a lot worse than I meant for it to, but you can leave it in. So before long, the tension over Blanche's obvious affair escalated to verbal abuse and occasion, occasionally physical abuse from her husband. Like the night that James and Blanche argued over her relationship and he just started flinging spoonfuls of chocolate pudding at

[Elena]

her

[Alaina]

in a mean way. I know that sounds silly.

[Elena]

It does. But it's like.

[Alaina]

But it's mean when you really think of that.

[Elena]

I want you to picture that.

[Alaina]

That's weird. They're trying. Like, they're having a serious conversation.

[Elena]

Yeah, like, that's fucked up.

[Alaina]

Flinging pudding at her also.

[Elena]

So childish.

[Alaina]

He was quite childish.

[Elena]

Wow. Yeah.

[Alaina]

Now, despite their troubles and Blanche's ongoing affair, which he didn't give a fuck about, they kind of tried to keep up appearances as a happy couple, even though it was blatantly obvious to everyone that Blanche was having an affair. But in the early 1960s, James did decide to slow his drinking, and he cut off all contact with his gambling circle, and he joined a church and found new friends there. Now, Blanche continued to work at Kroger, and she also filled a lot of her free time by selling Tupperware, which was such a thing.

[Elena]

My God. Tupperware parties.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Yeah. That was like a real thing.

[Alaina]

I've always heard of them.

[Elena]

But just buy Tupperware.

[Alaina]

I kind of want to go to a Tupperware party. Because one thing about me is I make people food and then I lose my Tupperware.

[Elena]

That's the thing when. When I think of Tupperware parties, I'm like, not a bad idea, because I can always use more Tupperware.

[Alaina]

Should we start Tupperware parties?

[Elena]

Maybe we should have a Tupperware party.

[Alaina]

Maybe we should have a Tup party. Do you feel like the word Tupperware is losing all meaning?

[Elena]

Tupperware.

[Alaina]

Say Tupperware again.

[Elena]

Tupperware.

[Alaina]

I want to say it again. Tupperware.

[Elena]

Just one more time.

[Alaina]

So, yeah, we should have those parties again.

[Elena]

I think so, too.

[Alaina]

So she just randomly started doing that, and it seemed like she was a powerhouse salesperson because she routinely filled her nights with those parties and other events. But what James thought was his wife's satisfying side job was, in fact, a cover story that allowed her to keep her nights free to spend with her boss, Raymond, who she was sleeping with, and other men in town who she was also sleeping with. Blanche, she kind of seemed to have a growing obsession with sex.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Alaina]

And it was obvious to anybody who spent any time with her at work, she was relentlessly flirty, not just with her boss, Raymond, but with any man she found attractive. And she found a lot of men attractive, according to Shoots. This is wild. She might be mid sentence talking about Jesus in the Bible. And she would stop and mutter to a co worker, man, I'd like to see the dick on that guy.

[Elena]

At no part of that did I know where it was going.

[Alaina]

But then we got there.

[Elena]

At no part of that. Even at the end, she said, what the. Imagine I never had someone say that to me or in my presence. I don't think I have. No. I've never heard somebody say that.

[Alaina]

Man, I'd love to see the dick on that.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Alaina]

What do you say? It's very Samantha Jones.

[Elena]

I guess it is very Samantha Jones. I feel like you just have to be like, okay.

[Alaina]

Woo wee, Blanche.

[Elena]

I bet. I bet. Yeah, that's like, what are you. Neat.

[Alaina]

Go for it.

[Elena]

Yay.

[Alaina]

Hope that works out for you.

[Elena]

Awesome.

[Alaina]

Period.

[Elena]

Hey, so honestly, period, to me is like the best response, because you have

[Alaina]

to put an end on that sentence.

[Elena]

Just period.

[Alaina]

Period.

[Elena]

Blanche. Foreign.

[Alaina]

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[Elena]

Good prices and participation Variable supplies.

[Alaina]

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[Alaina]

So she grew more promiscuous, more reckless. And as she was doing that, James actually seemed to finally grow into adulthood.

[Elena]

Oh yeah, look at this.

[Alaina]

His drinking and gambling was pretty much under control at that Point. And he actually started spending more time with his kids, and at this point in time, found that he genuinely loved being a father.

[Elena]

Wow. Like, took him a minute.

[Alaina]

Kind of did a 180 here.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

Took him a minute. Exactly. Now, when he wasn't doting on his daughters, he could easily be found spoiling his nieces and nephews, especially his sister Dot's children, because their father had died a few years earlier in a drowning accident.

[Elena]

Oh, geez.

[Alaina]

So he was really trying to fill that. That role, too. The happier James became, though, the more frustrated and disgruntled Blanche became.

[Elena]

Which shouldn't be the case.

[Sponsor]

No.

[Alaina]

When your husband's succeeding, like, you're supposed to be really happy about that and vice versa.

[Elena]

Your husband or wife or partner is thriving. That should make you feel like, oh, hell, yeah. Yeah.

[Alaina]

Like, part of marriage is celebrating each other's wins.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

But no matter the circumstances, she criticized his every move. She constantly commented on his appearance, which. Which included a lot of fat shaming.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Alaina]

Which is, like, really shitty.

[Elena]

Mean.

[Alaina]

And if she wasn't complaining about how much money he was spending on his hobbies or on the kids, she was criticizing him, like I said, for how much weight that he had put on since they got married.

[Elena]

That's just mean, man.

[Alaina]

I'd like to point out, sometimes, as a sign of happiness, that's true comfortability. Exactly. Now, at the same time, James's family, who had once been very kind and welcoming to Blanche, remember.

[Elena]

But they're probably like, what the.

[Alaina]

That's the thing. They started to grow cold. I'd be pissed around there because it wasn't any secret that she was cheating on him.

[Elena]

Yeah. Not only is she cheating, but she's also bullying him while he's being a

[Alaina]

good dad and humiliating him when he's made these, like, life changes. Life changes that it seemed like she wanted him to make.

[Elena]

That's the thing. Not everybody makes those changes or grows like that.

[Alaina]

And here's the thing. Like, sometimes it is too late for you. For you to make it up to another person.

[Elena]

Like, for them to want to be along for the ride with you going through these changes. And that's okay.

[Alaina]

That's okay. But you just get divorced.

[Elena]

Yeah. You don't bully them.

[Alaina]

No.

[Elena]

Like, you just. You say, okay, this is so cool that you're doing this, but I'm. It's past the point of being repaired.

[Alaina]

I'm glad you made those changes, but

[Elena]

you're gonna make them without me.

[Alaina]

It's too far gone. And I hope you Keep it up.

[Ad]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So, yeah, his family was just like, you know what? We really don't like you anymore.

[Elena]

Yeah, I don't blame him.

[Alaina]

So by the mid-60s, her world was rapidly changing, and it doesn't really sound like for the better. For somebody who craved and seemed to require control to feel a sense of stability at at least one point, the ongoing upset at home was becoming unbearable for her. So In September of 1966, Blanche experienced one of the more defining moments of her life when her father, P.D. passed away. Oh, this is interesting. And that's all I can say. It's allegedly pretty interesting.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

According to the coroner, the cause of death was a heart attack brought on by chronic emphysema. The death didn't come as a big surprise to really anybody who knew him because PD had been pretty much a lifelong smoker, and he had always been pretty reckless when it came to his health. And he also led a kind of nomadic existence. He just moved from one town to another. So there wasn't a real consistent record of his health care to speak of.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

I think that, you know, raised some eyebrows later.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Now, if anybody had been playing close attention to his symptoms just before his death, the cause of death might have been diagnosed as something altogether different. He entered the hospital the day before he died complaining of chest and stomach pains, and he was admitted and moved to a room. Over the course of the next 30 hours or so, though, he experienced a range of symptoms, most of which were internal. That included paralysis in the limbs, painful irritation of the nose and throat, aggressive bloating, and a burning sensation in his hands and feet, among other things.

[Elena]

What?

[Alaina]

Also, if somebody had been at his bedside when he died or immediately after, they maybe would have noticed a strong scent of garlic on his breath.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Alaina]

Despite the fact that he hadn't been eating garlic. And I don't know if he know this, but all of those signs are prominent. Telltale signs of arsenic poisoning.

[Elena]

Oh, our old friend arsenic.

[Ad]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Now, the problem was Petey checked into a large, busy city hospital where he was obviously attended to, but it was periodically by nurses and doctors. There was nobody there who was consistently monitoring his symptoms. And even if they had suspected that his death wasn't natural, by the time of the autopsy, arsenic would have passed out of his system entirely.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So even if the. If the coroner had suspected arsenic poisoning, they might not have found any evidence of that to put in a toxicology report. Now, weirdly, Blanche didn't really seem moved by her father's death. You know, maybe that could have provided some insight to people.

[Elena]

I think that would be something that you would at least be like, huh?

[Ad]

Yeah.

[Elena]

You know, but, you know, who's to

[Alaina]

say they had a tough relationship.

[Elena]

They did. That's the thing. They had a very complicated relationship.

[Alaina]

So I see both sides.

[Elena]

And it's not like he was a warm, fuzzy.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And didn't allow them to have any kind of real life as they were growing up. So that could just be distance emotionally in that way.

[Alaina]

And she also had a lot going on at home.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

While PD Was writhing in pain in the hospital, Blanche's marriage was rapidly deteriorating. By the late 60s, the once private arguments between Blanche and James started to spill over into public spaces, and their neighbors became accustomed to not only hearing, but seeing the couple scream at each other in the front yard or driveway. In one particularly bad incident in 1969, neighbors watched in horror as they got into a shoving match one Sunday on their way to church.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Alaina]

And what started as a verbal agreement quickly escalated to James trying to shove Blanche into the car. She immediately got out of the car and slammed the door behind her, but her coat was caught in the door when it shut, and he started backing down the driveway. So she was pulled to the ground and dragged down the driveway on her knees until James finally stopped the car.

[Elena]

We were rooting for you.

[Alaina]

We were rooting for you.

[Elena]

We were all rooting for you. How dare you.

[Ad]

Yeah.

[Elena]

What?

[Alaina]

And on your way to church.

[Elena]

On your way to church, are you

[Alaina]

going to confession, too?

[Elena]

You're gonna sit in that pew and act like everything's fine? Yeah. That is crazy.

[Alaina]

It is crazy. Holy. Now, James had always been a pretty easily excitable man. You know, he had gambled and drank in the past. Yes, he got hurrayed really quickly. But with all the tension in his marriage and the changing state of the world around them, the stress of life was starting to take a toll on him physically. And one afternoon in 1970, as he was driving into downtown Burlington, he was stopped by a police roadblock and told he couldn't go in the direction he was going because there was an active shooting situation.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Alaina]

Now, obviously, he immediately turned the car around and drove home. But the situation caused him such incredible anxiety that by the time he got home, he was shaking and sweating profusely. And then that turned into vomiting and violent diarrhea. What? So he finally went to see his doctor and was informed that he had had a fairly serious heart attack.

[Elena]

Holy shit.

[Alaina]

And unless he wanted to experience another one, he needed to make some Major changes in his life.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So the health scare marked a major turning point in his life. About six months later, Blanche came to her own major turning point too. When Raymond Reed and his wife finally divorced. That's her boss that she was having an affair with. James was still doing his best to raise their kids and, you know, avoid his blood pressure spiking. And Blanche was spending almost all of her free time with Raymond, explaining to anyone who cared that she was just trying to help him out because he didn't have a wife anymore.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. Just trying to stand in as his wife.

[Alaina]

But at that point, they had been carrying on a pretty public affair for almost 10 years.

[Elena]

So people were like, are you guys serious?

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Are you for real?

[Alaina]

That's the thing.

[Elena]

Be so serious right now.

[Alaina]

The increased attention really didn't seem that unusual to anybody, not even to James. He fully knew that they were continuing their affair. Now, maybe it was because he was so accustomed to his wife's infidelity, or maybe he was just trying to not have another heart attack. But whatever the case, he really never expressed any disappointment in Blanche after they went through that really big period of arguing. And then it just seemed like they were like, okay, we'll live together and we'll be married, but like, I hate you and you know I do, so let's not even talk about it.

[Elena]

That's really sad. What a sad existence.

[Alaina]

And sad for their kids.

[Elena]

Yeah, it's sad for everybody.

[Alaina]

Yeah. So they just carried on as usual. He worked a lot, took care of the bills. She, you know, had a grand old time at Kroger.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Alaina]

But all of that came to an end in the fall of 1973. One day in late September of that year, James started experiencing symptoms of what he thought was the flu. He was getting bad headaches, his glands were swollen, and he was becoming violently ill. When the symptoms finally got so bad that he couldn't manage them anymore, he went to see a doctor. But by then, things had had escalated significantly. In addition to all the earlier flu like symptoms, he now had painful blisters on his hands and feet. His hair was falling out in clumps. What? And his face was beginning to swell. The doctors had actually never seen anything like this, but they were like, it's not related to your heart, that's for sure.

[Elena]

Yeah, some shit is going on.

[Alaina]

So the doctor ordered a myriad of tests to rule out various illnesses and hopefully find the cause in the case of what the was going on here. But after several tests, James was worried about the cost of the treatment and asked that no more tests be conducted. Which is, like, really sad.

[Elena]

Yeah. Because it's like something is obviously going wrong.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Now, on the night of October 2nd, Blanche had just cooked dinner and set the table, But James told her his throat was hurting too much to eat, so he skipped dinner. But rather than let her husband go without dinner entirely, Blanche, being the sweetie Bo Beatty that she is.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Alaina]

Brought him some ice cream and convinced him to at least have some of it. It might make his throat feel better, you know?

[Elena]

I'm scared.

[Alaina]

Unfortunately, within the hour after having said ice cream, James was. Was writhing in tremendous pain on the couple's bed, which then escalated to. I'm so sorry. Violent projectile vomiting.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Alaina]

And he said the feeling that something was inside of him trying to claw its way out.

[Elena]

What the fuck?

[Alaina]

Rather than call for an ambulance, Blanche sent her daughter away, Telling the girl she'd arrange for a doctor in the morning. And then she made up the couch and she went to sleep on it.

[Elena]

What?

[Alaina]

While her husband lay upstairs, Projectile vomiting with the feeling that somebody was trying to claw its way out of him. That is horrifying. I'm sure you will be shocked to hear this, but the next morning, when Blanche went to the bedroom to check on James, she found him on his side, his hands twisted like claws and his face a bluish purple color.

[Elena]

Oh, my God.

[Alaina]

Under the circumstances, I think almost fucking anybody would call for some sort of help.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Emergency services, police.

[Elena]

What have you so dead to me?

[Alaina]

Blanche just calmly informed her daughter that her father was dead and then went to call her other daughter, who I think maybe was at a sleepover or something, and informed her of the same thing. In fact, Blanche called nearly every single one of James's relatives to tell them that their loved one was dead. And also she called the man she'd been having an affair with for 10 years, Raymond Reed, to tell him also that her husband was dead and to please come over. And then finally, she called an ambulance and reported the death.

[Elena]

I can't even picture this.

[Alaina]

Like, this is next level.

[Elena]

This is mayhem.

[Alaina]

Why would you call what's like a male mistress just a Mr. You're Paramore, maybe? Paramore. Why would you call your side mans over side piece to your house when, like, your husband just died?

[Sponsor]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

And why would you call his whole family instead of emergency services? And why would you call your daughter and just tell them calmly, daddy's dead? What?

[Elena]

I. I don't even know what to say. I don't even know what to Say

[Alaina]

his death was listed a heart attack, which made sense given his medical history. But like PD Kaiser's death one years earlier, no one considered the events and the symptoms that led up to the 45 year old supposed heart attack.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Or the fact that those symptoms would not have been caused by heart failure.

[Elena]

Hmm.

[Alaina]

So for a short time after James's death, which just happened, and life moved on, apparently.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Apparently, Blanche played the role of a grieving widow. But really, in no time, things got back to normal. Her daughter Cindy said in 1989, mom never expected to spend the rest of her life by herself. She said she had too much to offer.

[Sponsor]

Wow.

[Elena]

She was just like, yeah, I don't give a. Yeah.

[Alaina]

Blanche and Raymond continued to see each other, but they would only visit each other at their respective homes so as to not contribute to any gossip. Even though they'd literally been together for like 15 years.

[Elena]

I was gonna say, like, really?

[Alaina]

But other than the living arrangements, they were very much a couple in every sense. In thinking back on that time, Blanche's daughter Vanessa had fond memories. She said, Raymond was a very good man. He was very good to us.

[Elena]

I mean, that's good.

[Alaina]

So for a little bit, the arrangement seemed to suit everybody just fine. They could carry on their affair while Blanche still had enough space to continue building her own identity independent of men in her life for like four seconds. But her relationship with Reid wasn't the only bad habit that she carried on. After her husband died abruptly, she also kept up her scheme of petty theft from the registers at the store. She's still at that. She's. She's been at that.

[Elena]

God damn.

[Alaina]

People started to notice the missing money, and people already had in the past, but more and more people were beginning to notice.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

And finally, in 1976, a bag of cash went missing from the store.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Alaina]

As the person responsible for the register when the money went missing, Blanche was immediately suspected of the theft. And she was actually even questioned by the police and a private investigator that Kroger hired.

[Elena]

Oh, my God.

[Alaina]

But they couldn't find any evidence, and so there was no way she could be charged with anything. But a few months later, most people in Burlington did find it pretty odd that Blanche was able to afford a down payment on a new house.

[Elena]

Pretty interesting.

[Alaina]

Even though she had the salary of a grocery store clerk.

[Elena]

She's just really good at it.

[Alaina]

She's just thrifty.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Now, just as it had been with her now dead husband, as Blanche started to come into her own as a single woman, Raymond Reed's life became considerably more difficult after he got divorced. His relationship with his wife was very bitter, and it was worse than it had ever been, actually, even when they were married. So it was hard for him to keep seeing his kids on a regular basis.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Which, like, maybe you should think about that before you cheat on your wife. Just saying.

[Elena]

Yeah, I think that would be a good advice.

[Alaina]

That's just how I feel. But then there was problems at the store. In addition to the occasionally mysteriously missing money that he probably knew his mistress was responsible for, the store wasn't making the kind of profit that it needed to remain a viable branch. So that meant that there were more frequent visits by the store's regional manager, Robert Hutton. Now, like Raymond. Robert. Sorry, it might get confusing here.

[Elena]

Robert.

[Alaina]

Robert.

[Elena]

He's gonna miss Marcus the Worm.

[Alaina]

That we must quote Marcus the Worm, at all times. Robert Hutton was very devoted to the Kroger company, a lot like Raymond, and he loved his job. But that's where the similarities between the two of them ended. Robert Hutton, the manager, he was young. He was apparently good looking and said to be cartoonishly masculine. I'm just picturing Johnny Bravo.

[Elena]

What is. What was the. It was in Twilight, one of the Twilight movies. Something feminine, like aggressively feminine. Oh, that. It reminds me of that. Cartoonishly masculine.

[Alaina]

It's hard to say.

[Elena]

Too cartoonishly masculine. Masculine.

[Alaina]

Was it aggressively feminine?

[Elena]

I think it was like aggressively feminine.

[Alaina]

It was in. I think it was in the book.

[Elena]

Yeah, it is in the book. I think it's like Jacob's chapter.

[Alaina]

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Didn't he? He says Rosalie and.

[Elena]

And Alice.

[Alaina]

And Alice. Right. Yeah.

[Elena]

Yeah. Just reminded me about.

[Alaina]

Now we have cartoonishly masculine.

[Elena]

I love it.

[Alaina]

Robert bragged about his ability to sleep with any woman he wanted to. Loved telling raunchy jokes, which, like, you probably shouldn't do as the manager of a store.

[Elena]

Probably not.

[Alaina]

Yeah. And he also had a habit of sleeping around with women at various stores in his district.

[Elena]

Ew, what a pig.

[Alaina]

And really didn't make it a secret. So after careful review, he concluded that the Burlington Kroger did not stand a chance of survival, and the store ended up having to be closed. Now, fortunately, he did recognize that a lot of the staff was, in fact, very reliable, very competent, good people, including Blanche and Raymond. So, like, maybe not good people, but. So they were all offered jobs at other area locations at a pay cut, though Raymond was demoted to assistant manager in Martinsville, and that was in one of the Virginia stores. And Blanche was demoted to just a regular old cashier position in Greensboro. A few months later, Hutton moved Raymond to the Durham, North Carolina store and then promoted him back to manager. But Blanche stayed where she was now. Not surprisingly, the demotion and relocation were major disappointments for Blanche. She didn't have the power that she had over other cashiers anymore.

[Elena]

Oh no.

[Alaina]

And she also didn't get to spend every day with her sideman, so therefore she didn't know what he was getting up to while she was away.

[Elena]

Who's to be sure?

[Alaina]

I know. Well, you know the way about.

[Elena]

Yeah, you got to be worried.

[Alaina]

It took some time, but by 1983 she managed to get transferred to the store that he worked at.

[Elena]

Oh man, guys, the realization.

[Alaina]

At least an hour long commute each way. But apparently it was worth it to her to keep up her relationship with Raymond. And it also meant that she would be working alongside Robert Hutton, who she thought was irresistibly attractive since they had met years earlier. This bitch wants to have her cake and eat it too.

[Elena]

She does.

[Alaina]

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[Alaina]

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[Jeffrey]

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[Alaina]

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[Elena]

Now.

[Alaina]

By the 1980s, the early 1980s, Blanche and Raymond's relationship had been going on for like, 15 years or possibly more. And like her marriage before it, things had become less exciting than they once were. As he got older, Blanche didn't find Raymond to be so attractive anymore. She didn't think he was as fit as he should be. She really loves to fat shame. I just gotta say it. She really does. She does. He also had grown tired of their not so secret relationship and really just wanted to be together since they could be now. Yeah, but that wasn't fun for her. After she moved to the Greensboro store, he actually asked her to marry him, but she was like, no.

[Elena]

My God.

[Alaina]

And then he asked her to marry him again.

[Elena]

She said no.

[Alaina]

And she was like, no.

[Elena]

Yeah, guys. She said no.

[Alaina]

And then he kept asking her to marry him, and she continued to say no.

[Elena]

Oh, my God. Get it together.

[Alaina]

Yeah. She didn't just not want to marry him, but she really wasn't interested in changing their relationship at all. She was like, we can have a clandestine affair forever and ever. Now, if she wasn't interested in marrying Raymond and committing to monogamy, it's probably because she had her sights set on Robert Hutton, now the store manager. The other one, over the months that they've been working together, she was dropping hints indicating her interest in him, but he hadn't really picked up on anything, which was kind of crazy because he was a disgusting pig who regularly groped women that he employed.

[Elena]

God.

[Alaina]

So I guess subtlety was something he wasn't accustomed to he lacked sorely. But despite his aggressiveness with some women at the store and his tendency to grab them without permission, he knew that his attention wasn't wanted from Blanche. He, like, he thought that she didn't want him to do that to her, I guess.

[Elena]

Oh, what made him think that?

[Alaina]

I don't really know, to be honest with you. But eventually Blanche dropped the subtlety and got right to the point and just told him that she wanted him and she knew he wanted her.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So I guess they got together.

[Elena]

There it is.

[Alaina]

Now, by 1985, her life was spinning out of control again. She was still seeing Raymond regularly and continuing to deny his marriage proposals.

[Elena]

Cool.

[Alaina]

While also carrying on a sexual relationship with her boss, Robert Hutton. And apparently balancing the two was getting a little bit difficult.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So that January, the chaos escalated when Blanche called Raymond one day to tell him that she had come home and her house was ablaze. Oh, she said, hello, Raymond. I got home and it's engulfed in flames.

[Elena]

Hi, my house is on fire.

[Alaina]

He raced over to Blanche's house, and when he got there, luckily by then, the firefighters had managed to put out the flames, but the damage had been done. When they went into the bedroom, fire investigators found all of Blanche's underwear and lingerie scattered about. And she claimed that there had been a pervert prowling around the house days before, and she was pretty sure that he was the one who set the fire.

[Elena]

Oh, excuse me.

[Alaina]

But weirdly, when they asked for any defining characteristics of this person that she had seen only days earlier, Blanche couldn't remember any details at all. Okay, so her homeowner's insurance paid out a large sum and she sold the house as is. Which is crazy. But she managed to come out ahead and she used the money to buy a mobile home a few miles away. But this fire is where things really started to get fucking crazier in her life. Over the course of a year, she continued her affair with Robert Hutton and her relationship with Raymond, while also having a bunch of one night stands with a bunch of other men in town. Blanche, she's young and she's getting it.

[Elena]

I guess she is young and getting it. So that's one way of describing this.

[Alaina]

I don't know how else to say it. A few months after the fire that destroyed her house, Blanche was again, sadly, the victim of another house fire.

[Elena]

You know what? Some people, arson just kind of follows.

[Alaina]

It's crazy.

[Elena]

Follows them around.

[Alaina]

It's the weirdest thing.

[Elena]

You can never figure out why you really can't you know, sometimes fire, too.

[Alaina]

Just fire. Curses.

[Elena]

Fire follows people.

[Alaina]

Yeah, it follows, but it's. Fire follows.

[Elena]

Fire follows.

[Alaina]

So Raymond got to Blanche's house to pick her up for. For church one afternoon. I'm sorry, it's just wild to me that this woman goes to church. But he was getting annoyed that she was taking so long, which was going to make them late, and he didn't want to be late for church. So after she. No, he's. He's a righteous man. Yeah, he's a righteous, righteous.

[Elena]

Let's be real.

[Alaina]

So after she finally got out to the car, they had barely pulled out the driveway when Raymond slammed on the brakes and said, blanche, there's smoke coming out of your bedroom window. In response, she didn't look back. She just said, no, I think that's the sun reflecting on it. Yeah, I'm sorry, but if somebody tells me that there's smoke coming from my bedroom window, I'm going to tell them, hey, would you mind pulling back in the driveway so I can figure out what the. That's about?

[Elena]

Yeah, no, I'd just be like, I bet it's just the sun reflecting. I'm not worried.

[Alaina]

Yeah. She was like, listen, we're late. We have to get to church.

[Elena]

Don't worry about that.

[Alaina]

Up now. Crazy.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

When they returned from church later that evening.

[Elena]

I bet. I know.

[Alaina]

They entered the house to find that the place was on fire.

[Elena]

Oh, my God, so much fire.

[Alaina]

Can you believe it?

[Elena]

More fire.

[Alaina]

Small flames were licking around the corners of the bedroom, and Blanche exclaimed. Ah, damn it. Must have been that pervert again.

[Elena]

Must have been just that.

[Alaina]

That arsonist pervert.

[Elena]

Yeah, that fiery pervert.

[Alaina]

Not a fiery pervert. So Raymond grabbed the fireworks fire extinguisher from the kitchen and managed to put out the remains of the flames. But again, the damage had been done, and Blanche's bedroom was a mess of fire and smoke damage because of the fiery pervert in the closet. There was a single wax candle burning on the floor.

[Elena]

That's odd.

[Alaina]

That's the mark of a fiery arsonist pervert.

[Elena]

Yes.

[Alaina]

To Raymond's surprise, though, the insurance company paid out a second claim on the fire without any questions.

[Elena]

Huh.

[Alaina]

I feel like a man took that claim. I just have to say it. So during this time, Blanche managed to get a medical note from a doct doctor that claimed she had intestinal problems which had been exacerbated by the fire. So it was possible she may need to take time off from work periodically. Of course, she very much used that as an Excuse to blow off work or call out whenever she felt like it. Which put Raymond in a difficult position every time she did it because he was her manager. By that summer, he finally insisted that Blanche had to return to work or she had to find a different job. But rather than given, she apparently went to Robert Hutton and initiated sex with him in his office, which produced a favorable result in terms of extending her medical leave.

[Elena]

Every decision she makes, I just never know where it's going.

[Alaina]

I know that was a crazy way to tell you what happened, but, like, how else was I supposed to word it?

[Elena]

Honestly, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

[Alaina]

So she didn't want to lose that job, so she got to work.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

In a different way.

[Elena]

She did. She sure did.

[Alaina]

Yeah. In case you didn't pick that up.

[Elena]

I picked it up.

[Alaina]

Everything that was happening at the time, it's very abundantly, massively clear that Blanche was becoming more and more reckless with every day that was passing.

[Elena]

It would seem so.

[Alaina]

But all like that being said, at the same time, it really didn't seem like she had a long term strategy for anything. But at the same time, not everything she did was on impulse. One week after she and Hutton had sex in his office, Blanche showed up at the law office of Walker, Hoy and Kernodle.

[Elena]

Walker and. Or Hoy and Kenodle?

[Alaina]

Yeah, them.

[Elena]

Them. The law. The office of law. Yep.

[Alaina]

In a meeting with Douglas Hoy. One of the men.

[Elena]

Yeah, yeah, the law.

[Alaina]

She laid out a long history of the sexual harassment that she experienced at Kroger at the hands of the district manager, Robert Hutton.

[Ad]

Whoa.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Do you remember that? She did go to his office and initiate sex to keep her job. After hearing the story she told, Hoy agreed to take the case, obviously. And In January of 1986, she filed a sexual harassment lawsuit against kroger.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Alaina]

For 13.8 million in superior Court.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Alaina]

Among other things, the suit accused Robert Hutton of four counts of battery, four counts of assault, four counts of inflicting emotional distress, and one count of invasion of privacy. The suit also alleged that executives at Kroger were aware of Hutton's sexual proclivities and failed to take any precautionary measures.

[Sponsor]

Wow.

[Alaina]

She claimed that on one, on multiple occasions. Excuse me. He had called her into his office or conference rooms and exposed himself to her, fondled her, or made sexual advances.

[Elena]

That guy.

[Alaina]

In the most egregious of these incidents, she claimed that he approached her from behind. Sorry, this is all very graphic.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

He approached her from behind. While she was stocking items and grabbed her around the waist and said, are you ready for this?

[Elena]

Ew.

[Alaina]

And I'm not asking you if you're ready for this. That's what he asked.

[Elena]

No, that's like literally what he said.

[Alaina]

And she said, they're in the grocery store. Please remember that.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

She said when she turned around, he was nude from the waist down.

[Elena]

Ew.

[Alaina]

She said she managed to get out of his grass grasp and grab his pants and underwear and then she ran out of the store, which forced him to leave wearing a shirt and a tie and a butcher's apron.

[Elena]

Oh, my God.

[Alaina]

She also alleged that he frequently threatened to fire her or transfer her to another store if she didn't acquiesce to his demands.

[Elena]

I mean, that's fucked up.

[Alaina]

Remember that Blanche is the oldest woman on death row.

[Elena]

Remember that? Okay, yeah, we should remember that now,

[Alaina]

given his history with women at the company though, because he is a pig.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Not all of this is true. Like, like all everything that she put in her lawsuit. And like, we know that.

[Elena]

But he is piggy.

[Alaina]

But he is a pig.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So given his history with women, it really wasn't that hard for anybody to believe what Blanche had alleged. And Robert Hutton was forced to resign from his position.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

The case got held up in pre hearing motions for the next two years until in late 1987, Kroger finally agreed to settle for 250,000.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Alaina]

So Blanche has a lot of money now.

[Elena]

Sure does.

[Alaina]

Now, in the spring of 1986, one of Blanche's sisters called and asked if she would join them for Easter service at the Carolina United Church of Christ in Burlington of Cross. Her husband, Blanche's sister's husband, was in the hospital dying from cancer. And this was a tradition that they always looked forward to. So Blanche agreed to accompany her to the service. Now, Blanche had been to that service many times in her life. I just feel like you have to,

[Elena]

you know what I mean, laugh.

[Alaina]

I think it's Blanche in Christ.

[Elena]

You got him.

[Alaina]

But here's. So she had been there a million times. But when she arrived for easter service in 1986, she was surprised to find that the. The church had been taken over by a fine new pastor.

[Elena]

Oh, you don't say.

[Alaina]

Reverend Dwight Moore. Dwight, you say in Dwight. Yeah. In fact, Easter was to be Moore's first big celebration as the new pastor. So the stakes were very high. And he was very much looking forward to this event.

[Elena]

Oh, absolutely.

[Alaina]

Now, not long before he arrived in Burlington, before he found himself as head pastor, he had gone through a really painful divorce, which was not officially the cause for his moving, but. But it was almost certainly why he was reassigned.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So he hoped the new scenery in the new community would be an opportunity to heal some of his pain. Now, for someone who had been drawn to the flare and drama of her father's fire and brimstone preaching, Blanche wasn't terribly impressed with Reverend Moore. Once when she first saw him. Unlike the preacher she was used to from her youth, he was kind of a modern church leader who focused on the more positive aspects of Christianity and. And he kind of left behind, like, darker Old Testament lessons that he thought were scary. But still, there was something about him that Blanche found intriguing. He was handsome, he was friendly, he was energetic. Maybe she didn't like his preaching, but she lacked his face.

[Elena]

Oh, there you go.

[Alaina]

And for his part, he couldn't help but find himself drawn to Blanche as well.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Alaina]

As soon as that Easter service ended and the congregation made their way to Easter breakfast, he immediately spotted Blanche and her sister, and he made his way over to their table. Now, if he had been in Burlington for more than a few weeks, the odds were that he probably would have heard a lot of rumors about Blanche.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

And while he may not have approved of that gossip, he probably would have stayed away.

[Elena]

Probably.

[Alaina]

But he hadn't heard about Blanche's salacious and occasionally scandalous past, so he saw no reason why he shouldn't reach out to her.

[Elena]

Yeah. Why not?

[Alaina]

About a week after the Easter service, he managed to get a hold of her address, which is a little bit sketchy, and he showed up at her house one evening, but she wasn't home. He returned a few days later and managed to catch her. And the two sat down, chatted over coffee, gave her a little of his history. They got to know one another. Now, as religious leaders go, Dwight Moore's backstory was surprisingly atypical. After high school, he went to Duke University, where he studied theology. Being educated in a traditional university, I guess made him kind of an outlier in the Christian church. But what was more surprising was that shortly after beginning his service at his previous assignment, he started having an affair with his secretary, Eileen.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Alaina]

Who was also married at the time.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

Eileen eventually left her husband, and she and Moore made their relationship public. But it was always a well known secret that they started seeing each other when they were both married.

[Elena]

My God.

[Alaina]

After nearly 20 years together, their. Their relationship eventually soured and they divorced, which proved too scandalous for the congregation and that's why he moved.

[Elena]

They said, we can't have this.

[Alaina]

They said. Now, maybe Blanche saw something of herself in Dwight Moore's story. Or maybe she just liked the way he looked. Who's to say she liked his face? She did like his face. Whatever it was, the two hit it off. And they started seeing each other more again. More and more. And they made sure to keep everything a secret. For Moore, another romantic scandal would have had him excommunicated and probably kicked out of his new congregation.

[Elena]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alaina]

And as for Blanche, her lawsuit against Kroger alleged that as a result of workplace harassment, she had been unable to form healthy relationships with men.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So if the new relationship got out, that case probably would have been lost.

[Elena]

Probably.

[Alaina]

Now, as her interest in Dwight Moore grew, the amount of time that she had in her life for Raymond decreased. And that wasn't lost on him. In the spring of 1986, he showed up at Blanche's house unannounced. And he gave her a very expensive ring and a velvet lined box. And he said, don't feel like I'm trying to pressure you. I just wanted you to have something nice for me. Now, that wasn't all Raymond gave her that day. He also handed her over two tickets and a hotel confirmation for a trip to Florida. Just wants to have a nice little trip with her.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

Now, during their trip to Florida, they did embark on a trip to Florida.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Alaina]

Raymond did everything he could to endear himself to Blanche. He wanted to rekindle their once passionate romance. He paid for everything. He complimented her. He flattered her, endlessly.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Alaina]

Doted on her morning until night. Sounds really nice. But nothing really seemed to work. When they got back from the trip, she told her psychiatrist, I feel really guilty when I tell Raymond not to come over. He always wants to come to my house. I gotta tell him goodbye.

[Elena]

She's like, you know what? This is kind of.

[Alaina]

She's like, I do feel feelings, but like, I'm not into it, but like,

[Elena]

I'm kind of annoyed. So.

[Alaina]

Like she had done years ago when she was cheating on her husband, Blanche went out of her way to keep Dwight, Pastor Dwight, a secret from Raymond. But he was hearing the rumors from the cashiers at the store and from everybody else in town. And the thought of losing Blanche to another man was so incredibly stressful that eventually his body began to react to the stress.

[Elena]

Oh, no, you don't say.

[Alaina]

Or so he thought.

[Elena]

Hmm.

[Alaina]

One afternoon in the spring of 1986, after experiencing an outbreak of some kind of painful Blistering rash.

[Elena]

Oh, no. Probably out of nowhere.

[Alaina]

Out of nowhere, I tell you. Raymond went to his doctor, Dr. Norman Garrett, who took one look at one of those red blister and boils on his skin and diagnosed him with shingles. Shingles is incredibly painful and incredibly disrupting, but it can be brought back under control with medication and with rest. But no matter how much Raymond rested and took the medication as he was directed, he wasn't getting any better.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Alaina]

And by April, he ended up being admitted to the hospital. By that time, he was experiencing significant numbness in his arms and legs.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Alaina]

And a burning sensation with severe stomach discomfort.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Alaina]

So for the next several months, he spent most of his time in and out of the hospital and traveling to different specialists just trying to figure out what the was going on. Eventually, they diagnosed him with Guillain Beret syndrome, which is a rare immune disorder where basically your body's muscle system just starts to fail.

[Elena]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Alaina]

The symptoms can look a lot like the symptoms of poisoning, but at the time, nobody had any reason to suspect that it wasn't. Guillain Barre.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Now, in early October, only five months after his symptoms emerged, Raymond Reed died in the hospital. Oh, shit. Now, according to her daughters, Planche visited Raymond often in the hospital and seemed distraught by his death. But I'd like to highlight. Night. Visited him often in the hospital.

[Elena]

Was in the hospital with him.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Not only that, she. She did act publicly distraught over his death, but not so distraught that she wasted any time in delivering his safe to his kids, his sons, a few days after his. After their father had died. The safe had been in Raymond's house when he died. And the boys knew that's where he kept an antique coin collection that he was saving for them. Yeah, and there were silver bars in there, too, that he collected over the years. But when they opened the safe with the key that Blanche gave them, his sons were surprised to find that the silver bars were missing. And so was the large chunk of a coin collection. Everything was gone.

[Elena]

That's so fucked up.

[Alaina]

So fucked up and so strange. How did that happen?

[Elena]

That's so fucked up. When things disappear like that.

[Alaina]

I know. And people just die miraculously after having the strangest symptoms.

[Elena]

So crazy.

[Alaina]

But that, my friends, is where we're gonna end for part one.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Alaina]

And in part two, we'll learn a lot more about strange symptoms and things that go missing. And the woman that is behind all

[Elena]

of it, Blanche, is really out here.

[Alaina]

Blanche Taylor Moore is a reckless woman.

[Elena]

I mean, she's the oldest woman on death row, so she. She did it.

[Alaina]

She did something.

[Elena]

So whatever, whatever been done, she did it, period. I can't believe she's gonna do more.

[Alaina]

She's gonna do more. I have a whole part two.

[Elena]

Oh, shit.

[Alaina]

Yeah, there's a pastor too.

[Elena]

Oh man. Of course there is.

[Alaina]

I mean, you know him. Dwight.

[Elena]

Of course. Yeah, I knew Dwight wasn't gonna getting out of this.

[Alaina]

Maybe not.

[Elena]

Not scot free, I imagine.

[Alaina]

I'll tell you in part two.

[Elena]

I guess you will.

[Alaina]

All right, well, I have a fun fact for you, actually.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Alaina]

I don't even know if it's my turn. But it is cool. I got a Snapple yesterday.

[Elena]

Oh, you did?

[Alaina]

I haven't had a Snapple in forever. And I think that they put fun facts in the cap.

[Elena]

I forgot that too.

[Alaina]

And my fun fact was gorillas burp when they're happy.

[Elena]

I love that.

[Alaina]

And I do burp when I'm happy.

[Elena]

I do too.

[Alaina]

It's awesome.

[Elena]

So good for all of us.

[Alaina]

Mikey knows that better than anyone. Yes. All right, well, with all that being said, we hope you keep listening.

[Elena]

And we hope you keep it.

[Alaina]

We keep. So weird that you're so happy that you burp, burp, burp, burp, burp, burp the world away. Yeah, burn all your worlds away. But not so weird that people around you start dying with painful blisters all over their body. Cuz like that's just so strange. That's so weird, unexplainable.

[Elena]

And don't you know, be followed by a fire perv? No, don't do that.

[Alaina]

That's weird.

[Elena]

Don't do that. A fiery perv, if you will.

[Alaina]

Not a fiery perv.

[Elena]

Sam. Sa.

[Jeffrey]

You love summer. Longer nights, beach days, barbecues. But hot and sweaty sleep? Not so much. You're constantly looking for the cool side of the pillow. You kick off the covers, go into starfish position, you crank the thermostat, and then you see the electric bill. Next month, if your pillow feels like it's trapping heat and has seen one too many summers, it might be time for a refresh. That's why Coop's Sleep Goods is celebrating the 4th of July sale with up to 40% off site wide. And if you spend $150 or more, you get a free gift with purchase while supplies last. Coop's adjustable pillows are designed for personalized comfort featuring cooling technology that helps keep you cool and comfortable throughout the night. So before you spend another night searching for the cool side of the pillow, give your bed the summer upgrade it deserves. Shop Coop's 4th of July sale at coopsleepgoods.com comedy that's coopsleepgoods.com Comedy up to 40% off site wide and a free gift on orders $150 or more while supplies last.

[Guest/Caller]

You wouldn't take financial advice from a 72 hours in a single day Alpha influencer, would you? Same goes if you're in a car accident or any accident, who you choose matters. That's why Morgan and Morgan exists. They're the largest injury law firm in America, and they've built a reputation by actually winning cases, not just talking about it. Over a thousand lawyers across all 50 states and $30 billion recovered. Injured. Go to forthepeople.com podcast that's forthepeople.com podcast.