Episode 504: The Sauchie Poltergeist aka Wee Hughie

Summary

Podcast Summary: Morbid Episode 504 – The Sauchie Poltergeist aka Wee Hughie

Podcast Information:

• Title: Morbid
• Host/Author: Morbid Network | Wondery
• Episode: 504: The Sauchie Poltergeist aka Wee Hughie
• Release Date: October 19, 2023
• Description: A true crime, creepy history, and all things spooky podcast hosted by an autopsy technician and a hairstylist. Expect a blend of thorough research and lighthearted comedy.

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Introduction to the Sauchie Poltergeist Case

In Episode 504, The Sauchie Poltergeist aka Wee Hughie, hosts Alayna and Ash delve into one of Scotland's most baffling and enduring paranormal cases. The story revolves around an 11-year-old girl, Virginia Campbell, whose experiences with unexplained poltergeist activity in the small town of Soki captivated both local and national attention.

---

Background of the Campbell Family

The Campbell family, originally from Donegal, Ireland, faced economic hardships that led them to relocate to Soki, Scotland, in October 1960. The family comprised Annie and James Campbell, their son Thomas, his wife Isabella, and their youngest daughter, Virginia, aged 11. The move was intended to bring the family closer together, but it inadvertently set the stage for the mysterious events to unfold.

[09:06] Ash: "In October of 1960, Annie and James Campbell, a couple in their mid-50s living in Donegal, Ireland, decided to move to Soki, Scotland, seeking a fresh start."

---

Onset of Paranormal Activity

Shortly after settling into their new environment, Virginia began experiencing profound loneliness and isolation. Her only companions were her pet dog, Toby, and a single friend. The emotional turmoil of moving, coupled with the stress of her parents' absence—James stayed behind to sell the family farm—heightened her vulnerability.

[10:09] Ash: "Virginia had lost connection with her best friend and was being uprooted from the only world she knew."

The first significant paranormal disturbances occurred on November 22, 1960. Virginia and her niece Margaret reported hearing persistent thumping noises resembling a rubber ball striking a wall. These sounds followed them as they attempted to move downstairs, making it impossible for them to find peace.

[19:24] Alayna: "All the girls had night terrors for small spans of time before, and they are terrifying."

---

Investigation by Reverend Lund and Medical Professionals

As the disturbances intensified, Thomas and Isabella Campbell sought help from Reverend T.W. Lund. On the night of November 22nd, Reverend Lund arrived to investigate the reported activity. His observations included:

• Vibrating Headboard: The headboard of Virginia and Margaret's bed was vibrating without any apparent cause.
• Moving Linen Chest: A large linen chest was seen rocking back and forth inexplicably.
• Sideboard Movement: A sideboard slid unassisted across the floor.

Reverend Lund concluded that the knocking sounds originated from within the headboard itself, dismissing the possibility of Virginia physically causing the movements.

[23:56] Alayna: "That's debunking."

[23:58] Ash: "Debunking? Not happening."

On subsequent visits, Reverend Lund, accompanied by Dr. W.H. Nesbitt and later Dr. William Logan, documented further unexplained phenomena, including pillow rotations and desk movements in Virginia’s classroom. Notably, during a prayer session involving Reverend Lund and two local ministers, the activity escalated, producing loud banging, screaming, and hysterical talking from Virginia.

[46:28] Alayna: "A knocking thing would annoy the shit out of me."

---

Media Coverage and Public Reaction

Despite the efforts to handle the situation discreetly, media outlets took notice. United Press International (UPI) published articles detailing the incidents, often sensationalizing Virginia's experiences. The Sunday Mirror further amplified public interest by mocking the family's Irish origins and superstitions, describing local folklore involving banshees and leprechauns in Soki.

[47:56] Alayna: "She saw a girl and flipped her off in case anyone was listening."

In response to the growing media frenzy, Reverend Lund, Dr. Nesbitt, and Dr. Logan issued a joint statement aiming to quell public curiosity and assert that the phenomena were diminishing. They attributed the disturbances to a combination of Virginia's emotional distress and the need for both medical and spiritual intervention.

[49:19] Ash: "We're the most with it."

However, undeterred by the statement, additional media scrutiny continued, with some advocating for the involvement of spiritual mediums to assist Virginia.

---

Theories and Explanations

Several theories emerged to explain the Sauchie Poltergeist phenomena:

1. Naughty Little Girl Theory: Proposed by George Owen in his book Can We Explain the Poltergeist?, this theory suggests that Virginia herself may have subconsciously initiated the disturbances as a cry for attention amid her personal upheaval.

   [56:43] Alayna: "That's upsetting."

   Alayna and Ash express skepticism towards this theory, pointing out the implausibility of an 11-year-old orchestrating such widespread and simultaneous phenomena that even adults found inexplicable.

2. Puberty Connection: Owen also posits a connection between poltergeist activity and girls undergoing rapid physical and emotional changes during puberty, suggesting that hormonal upheaval may attract or generate metaphysical forces.

   [58:16] Alayna: "That's weird. I don't like connecting it to puberty."

   Both hosts find this correlation uncomfortable and question the validity of attributing such complex paranormal activity solely to hormonal changes.

3. Supernatural Forces: The persistence and intensity of the phenomena led many to believe in an actual supernatural presence, with Virginia’s emotional state and recent life changes acting as catalysts for the disturbances.

   [67:16] Alayna: "Poltergeist phenomena were real and not due to trickery, grinding tremors, or induced weightlessness."

Despite these theories, the exact cause of the Sauchie Poltergeist remains elusive, defying conventional explanations and verification.

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Revival of Interest and Lingering Mysteries

The case of Wee Hughie remained largely dormant until Malcolm Robinson, a high-profile paranormal investigator, revisited it in the mid-1990s. Robinson's investigation involved interviews with Margaret Stewart (née Davidson), Virginia's former teacher and a primary witness. Her accounts affirmed the severity and authenticity of the events, adding depth to the existing narrative.

Despite decades passing since the initial incidents, the Sauchie Poltergeist case retains its enigmatic status, with no definitive explanations or confirmations. The sustained intrigue is attributed to the thorough documentation of multiple, independent witnesses and the absence of any successful debunking attempts.

[66:35] Ash: "We still have no idea what the fuck happened and why it did."

---

Conclusion: An Unresolved Paranormal Enigma

The Sauchie Poltergeist aka Wee Hughie stands out in paranormal lore due to its multifaceted nature and the serious consideration given to Virginia Campbell's experiences. Unlike many poltergeist stories that fade into obscurity or are attributed to hoaxes, this case endures as a compelling mystery. The combination of an emotional catalyst, comprehensive eyewitness accounts, and enduring unexplained phenomena ensures that the legend of Wee Hughie continues to fascinate and baffle enthusiasts and skeptics alike.

[68:29] Alayna: "I love that it wasn't debunked or confirmed."

The episode underscores the intricate interplay between personal turmoil and supernatural speculation, leaving listeners pondering the true nature of the Sauchie Poltergeist.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Ash at [23:08]: "But it's all. It hasn't really been debunked either."
• Alayna at [25:37]: "I also saw it described as a possible leprechaun."
• Ash at [46:24]: "We cannot begin to understand its potential."
• Alayna at [58:20]: "You might also attract a poltergeist. There's really not a lot you can do."

---

Timestamped Highlights:

• [09:06] – Introduction of Campbell family's move to Soki, Scotland.
• [19:24] – Virginia’s night terrors and initial unexplained noises.
• [23:56] – Reverend Lund’s investigation and discoveries.
• [46:28] – Description of Reverend Lund and ministers' prayer session disruptions.
• [56:43] – Discussion on the Naughty Little Girl Theory.
• [67:16] – Acknowledgment by Owen that poltergeist phenomena remain unexplained.

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This comprehensive exploration of the Sauchie Poltergeist case provides listeners with a thorough understanding of the events, investigations, and theories surrounding Wee Hughie, ensuring that both believers and skeptics find the narrative engaging and thought-provoking.

Transcript

[Alayna]

Hey weirdos. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about a place where the darkness never ends. Wondery. It's like stepping into a haunted mansion where the floorboards creak. With ad free episodes and early access to new episodes lurks around every corner. So come join us if you dare. Morbid is available one week early and ad free only on Wondery. You can join Wondery in the Wondery app or in Apple podcasts or Spotify.

[Ash]

You're listening to a morbid network podcast from the creator of Think Twice, Michael Jackson. Listen to the new Audible original Final Thoughts Jerry Springer. Once known as the king of trash tv, Springer was the notorious talk show host whose wild daytime program transfixed audiences everywhere. Join Springer's personal and professional life as the ratings soared and the reviews soured. He here revealing interviews about the choices we make and the regrets we may have. Listen to the new trashy and true Audible original Final Thoughts Jerry Springer by going to audible.com Springer you know what time it is.

[Alayna]

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[Ash]

I just felt sing songy about my name.

[Alayna]

Went for a run at the end there.

[Ash]

I said I know she's a runner. She's our runner. She's a track star. Even though your children quite literally go Whenever they want me to play tag or something, I'm like, remember? And then they all say it together. TT doesn't run. Running is bad.

[Alayna]

Running is great if you're running away from something you should be running from.

[Ash]

Yeah, that's always good. But it makes my mouth tastes like blood when I run, so. I've talked about it. It's a thing. I've, like, found it on tick tock. Yeah, I think it's like, I. They don't really know why it happens, but many theories are that there's, like, little. Like little vessels in your lungs are bursting. So that's like. I don't think I'm meant to run.

[Alayna]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[Ash]

I'm just meant to be. Thickums McGee, baby.

[Alayna]

That sounds terrifying.

[Ash]

I walk, so that's good to walk too.

[Alayna]

Yeah, Move. Don't. Yeah, don't be stagnant.

[Ash]

Move it. Groove it, baby. I have a poltergeist story today.

[Alayna]

Yeah, we're getting creepy with it.

[Ash]

Getting creepy up in here. It's almost Halloween.

[Alayna]

Spooky season, remember? We're doing all kinds of, you know, spooky stuff.

[Ash]

Yeah. Also, I. We haven't even talked about, like, what we're gonna be for Halloween. Like, what are you thinking? I know, because. Are we. We're doing the thing, right?

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

This is just like a family party.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

This is just making plans.

[Alayna]

We're doing the thing, right?

[Ash]

Are we, like, a ritual? We were like.

[Alayna]

We're doing that thing.

[Ash]

I was trying to distract them.

[Alayna]

We're doing that black mass in the woods, correct? Yeah, no, sorry. I'm letting it all out.

[Ash]

God.

[Alayna]

Alina, I had an idea.

[Ash]

Can you tell me for us. Oh, for me and you together.

[Alayna]

And we should. Yeah. And maybe we can, like, put a beep over this part of the episode so that it could be a surprise for.

[Ash]

But are you gonna do a couple's costume with John for the. Me and you just doing with. Are we a couple this year? That's wrong. But, like, are we a couple of Halloween girls?

[Alayna]

Are we a couple of gals? I don't know, because I have an.

[Ash]

Idea for me and Drew. Oh, did I tell you what we were.

[Alayna]

Yeah, maybe for the. Because I don't think that that idea I just gave you is great for the family event, because I think.

[Ash]

Yeah, no, it's super bloody.

[Alayna]

Yeah. I think the gals would not appreciate that. I was gonna say they probably would.

[Ash]

But maybe the fam. Bam. On a whole level.

[Alayna]

Yeah. But, yeah, so. So, yeah, I think maybe we can do that for something else.

[Ash]

But do you have any couple costume idea? Because usually you have such a good couple's costume.

[Alayna]

No, I honestly have not even had time to think about it. So I'm going to sit down and brainstorm.

[Ash]

We can beep this too, but I think me and Drew are going to be.

[Alayna]

That's fucking amazing.

[Ash]

Isn't that incredible?

[Alayna]

Don't say, I think we're going to be that.

[Ash]

No, I'm like. When I say I think, like, we.

[Alayna]

Decided, I was like, don't you dare ponder over that.

[Ash]

Do that. I'm pretty stoked.

[Alayna]

That's phenomenal. Right?

[Ash]

But beep that out. Don't tell the muscles.

[Alayna]

Don't tell the mouse.

[Ash]

You'll have to see it on my Insta.

[Alayna]

But it's an exciting.

[Ash]

Such a trendsetter.

[Alayna]

Spooky time. Surprise. Oh, there's a lot of fun things happening.

[Ash]

I know.

[Alayna]

I love in October, I think Hell House llc, there's another movie coming out I think might be. Oh, a prequel.

[Ash]

Prequel.

[Alayna]

Oh, I love that you were about to say prelude.

[Ash]

I know.

[Alayna]

That's a prelude to the trial is what I always think of.

[Ash]

Why would you say prelude? Is that wrong?

[Alayna]

I mean, it's. No, not really. Yeah, so I. It's still. I always think of Mickey from Scream 2 saying a prelude to the tribe.

[Ash]

And you do love Mickey.

[Alayna]

Oh, love Mickey.

[Ash]

You and John should be Mickey and Sidney for Halloween.

[Alayna]

Oh, my God.

[Ash]

I mean, it's wrong, but very wrong, but very right as well. Also, your dog should be Sydney. Sidney, the dog should be for Halloween.

[Alayna]

Should be Sidney Prescott.

[Ash]

But aren't they being like a hot dog and a.

[Alayna]

And a.

[Ash]

You should make one a hot dog and one a trench coat.

[Alayna]

That would be hilarious. But one of them is being a hot dog and the other one is being a pumpkin. A pumpkin. Yeah.

[Ash]

Yeah. The kids decided.

[Alayna]

But yeah, I think I was going to say. Where did we just go?

[Ash]

Hello, llc. Prelude Prequel.

[Alayna]

Yeah, it has. It has a prequel coming out, I think, near Halloween, which I'm very excited about. For all you that are listening, that haven't watched Hell House llc, don't listen to anybody who says, you know, found footage is. Is crap, because this is a great one.

[Ash]

And we were talking to John about it the other day, and it's not like found footage that will give you vertigo. So anybody that has. That is worried about, like, found footage. Yeah, I feel like you'll be fine. And I mean, like, I'm not a doctor, so. But, like, don't take that For.

[Alayna]

Yeah. I mean, if you get vertigo from it, it's not my fault. That's your own problem. Not my chair, not my problem.

[Ash]

Fuck you.

[Alayna]

I'm just kidding.

[Ash]

If you get vertigo from it, you.

[Alayna]

That's your own problem.

[Ash]

You in your vertigo. But then there's the saw. Prelud. Yeah.

[Alayna]

There's a lot of fun stuff happening, I feel like.

[Ash]

And just fun things to do.

[Alayna]

I think there's just fun things. So I think we're. We're getting back into the swing of the spooky season, and that's exciting.

[Ash]

And what's really spooky about the spooky season is poltergeists.

[Alayna]

That is one of the most spooky things about any season, I would say.

[Ash]

Yeah. So I have a poltergeist today that. It's a really interesting story, but I am going to let you know from the. The jump that it's not really, like, solved at all, which is interesting because you're like, how do you even solve that in the first place?

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But it's all. It hasn't really been debunked either.

[Alayna]

Ooh.

[Ash]

So that's fun to me.

[Alayna]

That is fun. We love when it hasn't been debunked.

[Ash]

I don't love a debunked.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I've been doing a couple debunked lately, and they make me feel a little upset in my stomach.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because I'm like, not fun.

[Alayna]

Not fun. This.

[Ash]

Moderately fun.

[Alayna]

Okay.

[Ash]

You know, so this is the. I believe it's the. You say it's so key. And Elena can tell you. I looked at, like, a bunch of pronunciations.

[Alayna]

She sure did.

[Ash]

It's in Scotch Scotland, but it's the Silky Poltergeist.

[Alayna]

Oh, Scottish.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alayna]

Let's go.

[Ash]

We have Ireland and Scotland up in here. And this poltergeist became known as Wee Huey. That makes this perfect, like, exponentially better.

[Alayna]

Wee Huey.

[Ash]

We Huey. Which I'm. I'm like. Is that just like Lil Huey?

[Alayna]

Lil Huey.

[Ash]

Lil Hugh.

[Alayna]

Hugh. Yeah. That's exactly what it is.

[Ash]

Also, I like the name Hugh. Just wanted to say that. So anyways, in the fall of 1960, Annie and James Campbell, a couple in their mid-50s living in Doneg, Ireland. And I looked that up, too, so please don't yell at me.

[Alayna]

Sure did.

[Ash]

But they had grown really tired of the economic struggle that they were having. You know, their rural life made it hard for them on the farm. Like, it was. Things weren't really going well.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So they made the decision to sell this Family farm in Ireland and relocate to Scotland. Now, at the time, their youngest son, Thomas and his wife Isabella Campbell were living in a house in Soki, Scotland.

[Alayna]

Ah.

[Ash]

So Soki is like a small coal mining town in central Scotland and it's really well known for its association with regional football, which I believe is not like American football, but like, yeah, I think we're football that actually makes sense.

[Alayna]

Football that actually uses your foot with a ball.

[Ash]

Yeah. The United States is embarrassing when they say football because of like, because you're.

[Alayna]

Not using your foot that much. So yeah, my 7 year olds were very confused about that because they learned that football is soccer in other countries. And they were like, they were both like, that makes more sense, right? And I was like, I know there's a lot of things that don't make sense here and I'm sorry, you're gonna have to learn that.

[Ash]

Yeah, it really like unlocks like this weird feeling inside of yourself where you're just like, huh, that doesn't.

[Alayna]

Makes no sense.

[Ash]

I don't like it.

[Alayna]

Yeah, they kick it like once a game maybe, I think. I don't even know when they like, oh my God.

[Ash]

I was like, do they kick it? But you're right, there's like a kicker.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Anyway, that's all I have to say about football. But for this couple, it was a new start and one that honestly wouldn't really require much of a financial investment on their part because they were moving in with their son. So they started making plans to move themselves and their youngest daughter, 11 year old Virginia, to Soaky. Now, the economy in Sogi at the time wasn't really more promising than where they were at now. But I don't think it was really about like the financials. I think it was more about like missing family kind of thing, you know. So In October of 1960, Annie, the mother and Virginia moved in with Annie's son and Virginia's brother Thomas and his wife Isabella. And James, the father, stayed behind to sell the family farm.

[Alayna]

Okay.

[Ash]

Now also when you read about this, it says that a lot of like a lot of sources say that the family moved in with an aunt, but that's not true. It was the brother and sister in law of Virginia.

[Alayna]

Oh, that's good to know.

[Ash]

So at the time of the move, Virginia Campbell's life had been pretty lonely and isolating. She was the youngest of the Campbell children, so all of her siblings had moved out of the house, had moved away from their tiny village. And as George Owen wrote, quote, the only real Companions that Virginia had were her pet dog, Toby, and one friend.

[Alayna]

Aww.

[Ash]

And it was like her very best friend.

[Alayna]

Oh, my God.

[Ash]

So even though she was already lonely at home, the move to Soki was still a lot on Virginia, because she might not have had a lot, but she was leaving all of it behind.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And she was being uprooted from the only world that she knew. So she definitely struggled to acclimate to her new life. After the move, her teacher, Margaret Davidson recalled, Virginia was a shy, withdrawn girl, but very pleasant. She was in every other way, quite normal. So the fact that she was quiet or withdrawn is pretty understandable. She had, like I said, just been uprooted from the family home. And now she was thrown into this new living situation where she was sharing a bed and a bedroom with her niece, Margaret. On top of that, her father still hadn't been able to join them. The dog hadn't come yet. I don't actually know if the dog ever ended up coming back. I think they, like left him. I don't know if it was like a farm dog. Oh, it's sad. So that was a lot of upheaval for an 11 year old. Remember, she's 11. And there was about to be more because just a few weeks after arriving in Soki, Virginia's mother got a job at the Dollar Academy. It was only five miles away from their new house, but the job required her mom to work evening, and a lot of times she had to stay overnight at the academy.

[Alayna]

Oh, okay.

[Ash]

And I forgot to mention that Virginia also lost connection with her best friend, like, completely. So she was going through it now. Eventually she would shed a lot of her schwy, schwy way. I think I was about to combine shy and quiet and make it shy. She would shed a lot of her shy and quiet tendencies as she settled into her new life. And she eventually she did start making friends. But to school administrator administrators, I can't talk. The initial apprehension and awkwardness of the Campbell family as a whole, like not even just Virginia, was obvious, according to Mr. Hill, who was the headmaster at the primary school where Virginia was now going. Annie, Virginia's new mom, initially, quote, offered no more information than was necessary, and her voice seemed to come unwillingly from behind the mask on her face. They gave the impression of people who lived for a long time in a remote and isolated place.

[Alayna]

Huh.

[Ash]

So basically they were just private.

[Alayna]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Ash]

You're moving to an entirely new place. Like, you might be a little apprehensive.

[Alayna]

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[Ash]

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[Alayna]

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[Ash]

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[Alayna]

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[Ash]

So since she was older than her niece Margaret, Virginia was placed in a higher grade where obviously she didn't know anybody. And on top of everything else that she was going through, she struggled with the language difference between the rural Donegal and soky. George Owen, author of Can We Explain the Poltergeist? Wrote, at first she was extremely shy and her teacher found it difficult to establish real connection with her. But it was clear to everybody that she was very intelligent and she was kind, even if she seemed very emotional and under distress. Okay, now what are you looking at over there?

[Alayna]

Oh, nothing.

[Ash]

Oh, you looked like you were looking at something.

[Alayna]

Oh, no, you always think I'm looking at something.

[Ash]

I think whenever you're reading something, you get this face where you look. You look like very, like, invested.

[Alayna]

Yeah, because I think I focus when I'm reading something.

[Ash]

Yeah. And then I'm like, what is she reading?

[Alayna]

I was looking up things about that. Like I was looking at this little girl and like this.

[Ash]

Isn't she adorable?

[Alayna]

She is.

[Ash]

Don't spoil anything.

[Alayna]

I'm not going to sell anything.

[Ash]

So the picture of Virginia Campbell that comes from most accounts at this time is that of a fairly normal 11 year old reacting pretty appropriately to a pretty disruptive life event and struggling, but refusing or failing to, not refusing or failing to adapt to her new life. Like she was open to getting.

[Alayna]

Yeah, she wanted to adapt. She was just having trouble.

[Ash]

Yeah. And like I said, by all accounts, behind the quiet, shy exterior, there was a perfectly lovely, intelligent girl who seemed eager to engage with the world around her. And in time, like I said a minute ago, she did make a lot of new friends.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But that being said, George Owen, who was actually involved with the family at the time of the supposed poltergeist activity, is quick to point out, quote, it may be of significance that at present she is going through a period of extremely rapid physical development and mature maturation. Puberty in the full sense has not arrived, but she is going through a very rapid pubescence. It may also be of significance that on occasion she did Give some indication of mental and emotional turmoil at times. She talked in her sleep, showing signs of both upset and aggressiveness.

[Alayna]

Talking in her sleep shows upset and.

[Ash]

Aggressiveness, according to him. And that might cause. When I read that, at first I was like, I talk in my sleep.

[Alayna]

Yeah, I talk aggressive.

[Ash]

But when you hear about the kind of talking in her sleep that was happening, it wasn't your normal, like, having a weird dream. Like, she would go into trances and, like. Like, sit up, but they were like, she was still asleep.

[Alayna]

That's also a night terror.

[Ash]

It seems like she may have been having some night terrors, but then when you put it hand in hand with everything else that was going on, and.

[Alayna]

Maybe the night terrors were caused by something else, because the girls have had night terrors for small spans of time before, and they are terrifying.

[Ash]

One of them in particular. One of the girls sleep. Yeah.

[Alayna]

Yeah. Freaky. They. It's scary.

[Ash]

I. Kids are terrifying.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

If your kid is scary, I'm sorry. Gary.

[Alayna]

In a night terror, the thing, like, you can't really do anything about it. You just have to, like, comfort them through it.

[Ash]

Because it's. Isn't it, like, hard to wake them up? And technically you're not really supposed to.

[Alayna]

They're asleep, but they're acting awake, and they're just kind of like. They're not focusing their eyes on you or anything. Like, it's very strange, and it's a very strange moment. So you just kind of have to, like, if you can rub their back and stuff, just kind of be like, I'm here. Like, I'm here. Like, let them know that you're here.

[Ash]

And then hopefully it kind of like. Like it's. Yeah.

[Alayna]

Like, goes into their dream, like, subconscious somewhere. I think it's like, if you show comfort and like, I'm here kind of thing, then slowly they. They can come out of it. Makes sense. Scary.

[Ash]

And it's like how, like, when your alarm will ring in real life, but it manifests as something else in your dream.

[Alayna]

Yes. And it's just this loud noise in your dream that you can't get away from.

[Ash]

So maybe, like, some big, random thing is comforting you and not your mama.

[Alayna]

Not your mama. Mom. Also, big random thing is comforting.

[Ash]

I just pictured, like, a cloud comforting me. Like a giant cloud with legs. I honestly pictured cloud guy, but, like, big. Oh, from Trolls. Hell, yeah. Guy would comfort me.

[Alayna]

Cloud guy does comfort me, too.

[Ash]

And so does what's his name?

[Alayna]

The.

[Ash]

The giraffe. I love the giraffe. Cooper. Cooper. I Love Cooper from Trolls. I'm excited for the new Trolls movie and this is not a paid campaign. I'm just genuinely pretty excited.

[Alayna]

I love that.

[Ash]

Anyway, that's all to say, while Virginia Campbell may have been a normal, healthy, fully functional 11 year old, her behavior did indicate a certain amount of frustration related to her circumstances that maybe was seeking some kind of outlet subconsciously or consciously.

[Alayna]

Okay, shit was going down.

[Ash]

Truly.

[Alayna]

Or. Or not.

[Ash]

No, it was. It was going down Charlie Brown. So as far as anybody could tell, the poltergeist activity began on November 22, 1960, not long after Virginia and her niece Margaret had gone to bed. That night, the two girls began hearing what they later described as a thunking noise. They said it was almost like someone was throwing a rubber ball against the wall.

[Alayna]

Okay.

[Ash]

If you can kind of picture. Yeah. Now, they couldn't fall asleep because it was so loud. So they went downstairs, but the sound actually ended up following them as they were walking down the stairs, like the ball was hitting each step just behind them. Oh. Now, in the living room, the girls reported the noise to Thomas and Isabella, which would be Margaret's parents and Virginia's brother and her sister in law. But the older, like the couple, Thomas and Isabella were like, okay, you guys need to go to bed. Like, clearly this is some kind of tactic to stay awake. And they didn't hear anything, so they just escorted them back up to bed. But as soon as Thomas and Isabella closed the door to the bedroom after getting the girl settled, they heard the sound from outside of the room and they were like, okay. Now Thomas just figured it was the girls pulling some kind of prank. Like once he closed the door, he's like, oh, they're trying to make me think that I hear this.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So he opened the door to tell them to cut it out. But he was surprised to find both of them under the blankets, their hands completely covered, and the sound emanating from the headboard of the bed they shared.

[Alayna]

Damn.

[Ash]

Now, confused and somewhat concerned, they moved Virginia and Margaret to a different bedroom to fall asleep. But the noises continued and they only stopped after Virginia had fallen asleep.

[Alayna]

Ooh.

[Ash]

Just random.

[Alayna]

That's interesting.

[Ash]

And weird. Like, it was inexplicable. So that night was not restful at all for Virginia. She had a very fitful sleep. So they decided to let her stay home from school the next day because they were like, first of all, we have no idea what's going on. And you also didn't sleep last night, so it's not going to be A good day for you.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Now, that afternoon, when Thomas, Isabella, and Virginia sat down in the living room together, all three of them watched in shock as the sideboard next to Virginia, quote, moved out 5 inches from the wall, then slid right back into place. Oh, yeah.

[Alayna]

Okay.

[Ash]

So at the time, Virginia was seated less than a foot away from this sideboard, but both Thomas and Isabella swore that she never touched that sideboard. Like, it moved very much on its own. And they were like, what are we dealing with here?

[Alayna]

What is going on?

[Ash]

If my little. If I, like, well, I do have a little sister, and if she moved in with me and this started happening, I'd be like, listen, I love you so much, but you gotta go.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because, like, my house is chill and chilling it. Yeah.

[Alayna]

You know, don't be all uncool.

[Ash]

Yeah, be cool. Don't be all uncool. I have wine glasses that say that they're a pair of.

[Alayna]

Just in case you were wondering.

[Ash]

Yeah, I think I got them on Etsy, so try to find those. But that evening, after Virginia and Margaret had gone to bed, the family started hearing the knocking again. But this time it was all over the house, and there was no obvious point of origin. They're all, like, hunting around to see, like, is this, like, a pipe? Is this a that? Is this a whatever? They can't narrow it down. And eventually the knocks became so loud that even the neighbors could hear the noise and were like, what's going on over there? Like, please quiet down. And they were like, yeah, we can't control this at all. Like, we don't know what's happening. We're not doing it, so we are not.

[Alayna]

Well, bitch, nobody of the living is doing it, so.

[Ash]

So finally, after enduring the noise for hours and being just really unsure of what to do, the couple, Thomas and Isabella there, ended up calling their priest, Reverend T.W. lund, and they were like, can you come out here and just help?

[Alayna]

Help.

[Ash]

So Reverend Lund arrived at the Campbell house just after midnight that very night, and he was briefed on the activity that had been occurring throughout the last. He could also hear the knocking sounds, and he eventually traced them to that headboard on the bed where Virginia and Margaret were sleeping. Like, they were still asleep. So he actually, the reverend suspected that Virginia was causing these noises somehow. He said maybe she was like. Like putting her head up against the headboard and kind of, like, thudding it against the wall.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So he asked her to slide down away from the headboard. Like, they woke the kids up, obviously.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And he assumed that the noises would stop. But after she did, they continued. And he also noticed that the headboard hadn't actually even been touching the wall at all. So there wasn't even the possibility that it was being vibrated and, like, hitting the wall.

[Alayna]

Debunking.

[Ash]

Debunking.

[Alayna]

Not happening.

[Ash]

No. So when the. When the reverend pressed his hand against the headboard, he could feel a vibration with every knock, which convinced him that no matter how impossible, this knocking was coming from inside the headboard itself.

[Alayna]

Oh, damn.

[Ash]

And he could not figure out how. What? So during his visit to the house, Reverend Lund also noticed a large linen chest. Like, pretty big. It was 27 inches long, 17 inches high, and 14 inches wide. He saw it rocking back and forth for no obvious reason, and then the sideboard slid more than a foot across the linoleum tile and then just slid back into place.

[Alayna]

What?

[Ash]

Yeah. He could not explain the movement of the chest, especially because it was full of linen and not likely to move from any kind of vibrations. Like, it's a big, heavy chest. So he shifted his attention back to Virginia, and he was like, I think you guys just need to go back to bed. Like Virginia and Margaret, try to go back to sleep after witnessing that. It's fine. And when he made that suggestion, the knocking from the headboard became violent and rapid. Like, no, no, no. Nobody's going to sleep tonight. What the fuck, right?

[Alayna]

Oh, I don't like this at all.

[Ash]

No, it's weird. And it doesn't. It gets weirder, but. And it's scary in and of itself. But this particular poltergeist doesn't seem violent.

[Alayna]

But he seems, like, aggressive.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alayna]

Which I don't like.

[Ash]

Like, knowing that it's Wee Huey. It does sound like just like a little kid poltergeist. Like this little boy Huey just make acting a fool, you know?

[Alayna]

Yeah, it's true. Like, we Huey really does take the terror down a notch.

[Ash]

It does.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And it just seems like a little boy being rambunctious as a ghost.

[Alayna]

I also saw it described as a possible leprechaun.

[Ash]

Are you serious? Yeah. But they never found the leprechaun.

[Alayna]

I'm just saying.

[Ash]

I love that.

[Alayna]

Right.

[Ash]

Maybe we Huey is a little leprechaun.

[Alayna]

You never know.

[Ash]

I don't know.

[Alayna]

Who's to say?

[Ash]

Not I. Yeah.

[Alayna]

They called it. And actually, they called him a vengeful leprechaun, so.

[Ash]

But I don't really know how vengeful he was. Like, he didn't do anything bad.

[Alayna]

I. Yeah. I don't know. I'm just saying he has had that reputation.

[Ash]

He has the bad reputation, I think, is what Taylor Swift says. So the noises and the disruptions continued the next day with knocking coming from the walls. The sewing machine was turning on and off by itself. Objects were moving on their own. Virginia's father, by that point, James, he had sold the farm and moved to where they were now in Scotland. He claimed that he witnessed an apple rise out of a fruit bowl, hover in the air for a second or two, and then drop back down into the fruit bowl. And he, like, this man is like a farmer. Like, he's not. He's like a no kind of guy.

[Alayna]

Yeah, he's just like that.

[Ash]

And he's like, I saw what I saw, and I don't know why I saw that.

[Alayna]

I saw what I saw, and I don't know why I saw it.

[Ash]

It's weird like that.

[Alayna]

Is it? And I just love that. It's like we Huey, like, picked up an apple, was looking at it, and then was like, nah, just put it, like, health. No.

[Ash]

Health. Wellness, Fiber. Absolutely not for me. I just picture, like, an apple floating on itself and a look at me like, can you take the skin off this?

[Alayna]

And nobody answered. So he's like, fuck it.

[Ash]

For some reason, no one heard him. But imagine if you did. That would be actually terrifying and not.

[Alayna]

And also not to know the context here. Can you take the skin off this? I'd be like, no, I can't.

[Ash]

An apple's just floating in the air.

[Alayna]

It belongs on people. I'd be like, ah.

[Ash]

The kid's like, it's an apple.

[Alayna]

I just don't want the apple skin. I'd be like, I can't.

[Ash]

No. No.

[Alayna]

Thank you.

[Ash]

So later, Reverend Lund went back to the Campbell home, and this time he brought a local physician, W.H. nesbitt, with him. Once Virginia and Margaret had gone to bed, they both went into the room, the Reverend and the doctor. And once they walked into the room, they looked on in utter shock as Virginia's Pillow rotated about 60 degrees while her head was still resting on it.

[Alayna]

Okay, that's interesting.

[Ash]

That's weird. That's weird.

[Alayna]

That's suspicious.

[Ash]

So neither of them had really any time to process what they'd seen before the knocking started up again, first at the headboard and then in the walls. And the knockings were followed by the lifting and slamming of the lid on the linen chest, which again moved out from the wall on its own before sliding back into place against the wall.

[Alayna]

Okay.

[Ash]

But all the while, the lid is being, like, lifted and slammed back down. Lifted. Slammed back down.

[Alayna]

That's disruptive.

[Ash]

It is. So these phenomena were shocking, but the final event witnessed that evening was the most inexplicable to them. As Virginia and Margaret lay in bed with the covers pulled up to their chests, both men witnessed what they later described as a strange rippling movement move up and down the bed covers as the two girls lay beneath. Almost like the COVID was doing the wave.

[Alayna]

Yeah, obviously.

[Ash]

What?

[Alayna]

No, I hate it. Nope.

[Ash]

And I'm also like, damn, y' all are just sleeping through this.

[Alayna]

I know. That's the thing. Everybody's just, like, going about their business after this. It's like the.

[Ash]

Like, kids can sleep through anything.

[Alayna]

They truly can, apparently.

[Ash]

But then they have, like, they need, like, one glass of water and it's over for you.

[Alayna]

It's. I mean, going to sleep. Forget about it.

[Ash]

Forget about it. Now. Since the activity started a few days earlier, Virginia had been staying home from school because they were like, do we send her to school while this is happening? But by Friday, November 25, the Campbells decided there was really no point in keeping her at home any longer, especially.

[Alayna]

Because her home isn't safe, it seems.

[Ash]

Yeah. And they weren't even any closer to understanding what the hell was going on. So after being home all morning and, you know, Virginia was probably, like, ticking them off a little bit, like, you know, like, they were like, go find something to do. And she was like, I can't. So they were like, you know what? Go to school. Forget it. So they sent her to school for the remainder of the afternoon. Now, that afternoon, as she was sitting in class, her teacher, Margaret Stewart, noticed that she seemed to be struggling with something at her desk. From Mrs. Stewart's vantage point at the front of the class, it seemed like Virginia was fidgeting with her desk lid in, like, an unusual manner. She's like, what the fuck is she doing? She didn't say that, though.

[Alayna]

She said, what the fuck is that little girl doing?

[Ash]

Virginia, what the fuck are you doing?

[Alayna]

Are you doing, Virginia?

[Ash]

She didn't say that. That would have been so rude.

[Alayna]

That would have been really rude.

[Ash]

She would have had a problem with Annie Campbell if she said that.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And James, I'm sure.

[Alayna]

And me.

[Ash]

And me. How about that, Ms. Stewart talk to.

[Alayna]

That kid that way?

[Ash]

Never. No. Ms. Stewart's a sweetie. So she assumed that Virginia was just fooling around. So she called out and was like, virginia, what are you doing? And Virginia said, Nothing, Ms. Honest. Like, she was like, I'm really not doing anything. So when the teacher told Virginia to stop distracting the class, she did as she was told and just lifted her arms off the desk. And at that point, the wooden lid of the desk began rising and falling on its own as the other students just watched in complete shock and horror.

[Alayna]

No.

[Ash]

So it seems like she might have been like. Because she said the teacher was like. It looked like she was fidgeting with her desk. It sounds to me like she was trying to stop that from happening.

[Alayna]

Yeah. Like, I was trying to figure out why it was happening. Like, just being like, what is going on here? Like, trying to see if it could stop it.

[Ash]

And then she takes her hands off and it starts just going for it. And all the kids in class are like, what the fuck? We got a Matilda up in here.

[Alayna]

We got a Matilda.

[Ash]

So later that afternoon, during a period of silent reading, the classroom was again disrupted when the empty desk behind Virginia slowly rose about an inch off of the floor and just gently settled down again on its own.

[Alayna]

What do you even say as a kid in that class? You're like, what's happening?

[Ash]

I don't know what's going on? When she was interviewed about the incidents a short time later, Mrs. Stewart told George Owen that during the first interruption, Virginia was in her line of sight. So she could tell that Virginia was not lifting the lid of the desk. And again, her hands were in the air.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And after the second incident, Mrs. Stewart went back over to the desk behind Virginia and examined, like, the whole entirety of it and said she, quote, found no strings, levers, or anything else that had been in operation to make the desk rise and fall, seemingly of its own volition.

[Alayna]

Damn.

[Ash]

So this wasn't a prank.

[Alayna]

Yeah. Like, they checked it out, it seems.

[Ash]

Yeah. They tried to debunk everything, and they literally couldn't see.

[Alayna]

These are the ones that. It's like when they're going and checking it out and actual adults are looking and being like, I. Yeah, I can't explain this. That's when those are the scary, scary ones.

[Ash]

They are. And they're. They're scary for some reason. I just find this one fun.

[Alayna]

Yeah. I mean, it's Scottish. Who doesn't love a Scottish tale?

[Ash]

I love a Scottish tale.

[Alayna]

I love a Scottish tale.

[Ash]

And it's an Irish girly.

[Alayna]

Yeah, we love it.

[Ash]

Later that evening, Reverend Lund and Dr. Nesbitt returned again to the Campbell house to check up on Virginia. And when Reverend Lund asked her how school had been, Virginia said, all right. But something funny happened. When I was there when my teacher was standing near my desk, the lid of another desk went up all by itself.

[Alayna]

You know, funny Reverend Lund was like.

[Ash]

Okay, I'm going to talk to your family, so give me a minute. Wild now while he sat and talked with the family in the living room, Dr. Nesbitt spent the evening sitting in the girl's bedroom watching for any unusual behavior.

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[Ash]

Now. While he was alone in the room, Dr. Nesbit witnessed similar but less intense activity than had been reported days earlier, including the light knocking sounds, the lid of the linen chest lifting and lowering, and still multiple rotations of Virginia's pillow as it just sat on the bed.

[Alayna]

Yeah, that's wild.

[Ash]

So it's not even like. Because I guess you're kind of thinking. Or at least I was when they first saw that pillow rotation. I'm like, maybe there's something that, like, she can pull that, like, makes it ha. I mean, that's like, you just.

[Alayna]

You try to debunk anything that can.

[Ash]

But now he's sitting alone in there.

[Alayna]

That's the thing. Like, she's not there to do anything. No.

[Ash]

And this is the 1960s, so it's not like she has, like, some remote control that's, like, hooked up to anything.

[Alayna]

If it was now, I'd be like, all right. Right. Maybe it's like a drone or some shit.

[Ash]

Right. But like, back then, it's like, no, no. So the family hoped the arrival of the weekend maybe could bring some kind of just chill to the situation. They were like, it's been really chaotic up in here with the paranormal activity.

[Alayna]

Maybe we can have a calm weekend, please.

[Ash]

But unfortunately, it didn't take long for those hopes to be dashed. Saturday the 27th did pass with minimal activity. The most really, anyone witnessed was more pillow rotations. And that rippling of the bed covers.

[Alayna]

I love that. More pillow rot.

[Ash]

More pillow rotations. It's like more pumptinis. Now, Sunday, on the other hand, found the family experiencing entirely new phenomenon When Virginia appeared to go into a kind of trance. Ooh, this is kind of what I touched on earlier.

[Alayna]

Okay.

[Ash]

That afternoon, Dr. Nesbit returned with his colleague, Dr. William Logan. Oh, I know somebody with that same name. But they brought along his dog, Dr. Logan's dog. And Virginia took an immediate liking to this dog, Telling the doctors that he reminded her so much of her own dog, Toby, who she, like, really missed. I really don't understand why they couldn't bring Toby with them.

[Alayna]

But justice for Toby.

[Ash]

Justice for Toby.

[Alayna]

Truly.

[Ash]

Pour one out.

[Alayna]

I will.

[Ash]

Now, the day passed without incident. The children played with the dog. They seemed generally happy. But that evening, after the girls had gone to bed, Virginia appeared to slip into this kind of trance. Trance, excuse me. And she started speaking almost like she was talking in her sleep, Calling out for Toby and her best friend Anna, who she'd left behind in Ireland. Now, Virginia's parents did what you would do. They tried to comfort her. She's, like, seemingly having some kind of night terror distress. They gave her a teddy bear, but she ended up violently throwing the teddy bear across the room and started thrashing and striking out in all directions.

[Alayna]

Oh, damn.

[Ash]

And they were like, I don't know what to do. So they left the room. I don't really know what else they could have Done, I guess.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And she just fell asleep normally after that.

[Alayna]

Oh, wow.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alayna]

Huh.

[Ash]

Have your kids ever had a night terror to, like, that extent?

[Alayna]

No, they've never thrashed around and become.

[Ash]

Scary like that and, like, potentially violent?

[Alayna]

Yeah, they've never become violent or even aggressive. They.

[Ash]

More.

[Alayna]

It always kills me because, like, they would. They don't have them anymore, really. Knock on wood. And they didn't get them a ton. They were just every once in a while. And I got them when I was little, so I knew what they were.

[Ash]

What to do.

[Alayna]

But they basically. They get very, like. They cry, like, weepy, and they get very inconsolable, like, for a moment. And then finally they'll fall into it and be like. And calm down. But even so, you feel bad leaving them because you feel like you haven't quite got them to a comforted place yet. Cause they'll lay down and, like, go to. Go back to sleep, and you can still see, like, the stress on their face. So it always used to kill me. And then I go in, like, an hour later, and they were, like, peacefully asleep. So I was like, okay, okay, we're good. But, yeah, it's always one of those things where you're like. But they never got aggressive.

[Ash]

I know. I don't.

[Alayna]

Well, I don't know if that's just different strokes for different folks.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alayna]

That's the thing.

[Ash]

Because in my mind, I'm like, maybe what George Owen said earlier about how, like, she was clearly dealing with something whether she knew it or not. I don't know if maybe she was the kind of person with the temperament of, like, not allowing things to get the best of her while she was awake.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But then at night, she was, like, angry about the fact that she had to move, like, in her subconscious.

[Alayna]

Yeah. No matter what. She's young and she's going through a. An upheaval.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alayna]

So it's like. I feel like that's always gonna put a kid in a different mindset. When it's the. When it's not quite settled or, you know, when things are settled, it's easier to be in a good mindset. But for a kid, unsettling and movement can really throw them off.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alayna]

Like, way more than we think it does.

[Ash]

It's. And it's interesting, like. And I think a lot of it. I think a lot of things with kids happen subconsciously.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You know.

[Alayna]

Oh, yeah. For sure.

[Ash]

Because it's just, like, they can't necessarily make sense of a lot.

[Alayna]

Exactly. There's so much Going on.

[Ash]

Well, anyways, the next day Virginia did return to school and it was almost immediately apparent that whatever had been affecting her arrived with her at home school that day. As the students were sitting quietly working on a world a word problem, Virginia approached Mrs. Stewart's desk to ask for a little help with whatever they were doing. So she got up to sketch out the problem on the blackboard for her the teacher. But she, the teacher looked as the chalkboard pointer on her desk started to vibrate because she was about to like grab for it, but it started vibrating on her desk and eventually fell off of the edge of her desk. And then when she reached down to touch the desk, she was surprised to find that it too was vibrating slightly.

[Alayna]

What the fuck?

[Ash]

And then without any kind of warning, and I want to say that this is probably like the most quote unquote violent thing to happen, the right end of her desk lifted off the floor slightly and swung in her direction. Oh. Like, it got like pushed towards her.

[Alayna]

Oh, damn.

[Ash]

And I am pretty sure that's one of the more violent things that happened. Luckily, I don't believe she was hurt, but weird. Yeah. Wee Huey does not like Mrs. Stewart.

[Alayna]

No. And it's weird that it's following her to school.

[Ash]

I know.

[Alayna]

You know, that's the thing. Wow.

[Ash]

Now, when Virginia arrived home from school that afternoon, the family made the decision to send her actually to stay with relatives in nearby Dollar, where they hoped she would get a break from the paranormal activity. Because they're like, she's really not sleeping, she's going to school. Like, this is a lot on her as an 11 year old. So hopefully if we send her over here, she can. Maybe the activity is like linked to the house somehow.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I don't know. But when Dr. Nesbitt visited the Dollar House later that night, he found that the knocking noises continued in the new location in a series of knocks that range from gentle tapping to loud raps, always in the vicinity of Virginia.

[Alayna]

Ooh, spooky.

[Ash]

So it followed her to an entirely different town.

[Alayna]

Exactly.

[Ash]

That's wild. Now, the next day, Dr. Logan arrived in dollar in the company of his wife, also a doctor.

[Alayna]

Damn.

[Ash]

Dr. Sheila Logan. And they wanted to visit Virginia to get a load of this.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Now, when Sheila first heard the stories about the activity from her husband that seemed to be following Virginia, she was like, okay, sure. And she seriously actually doubted what was going on. She talked the quote unquote activity up to just a childish, childish prank.

[Alayna]

Okay.

[Ash]

But as soon as she got to the house where Virginia was staying. Sheila experienced the knockings firsthand and walked away, quote, satisfied that the noises from within the room were not caused by the activity of anyone in it.

[Alayna]

Huh.

[Ash]

Which is such a haunting statement.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Whatever she was hearing in that room was not caused by anyone in it.

[Alayna]

Hate. Don't like that.

[Ash]

Hate. Hate. Loathe entirely.

[Alayna]

A knocking thing would annoy the shit out of me.

[Ash]

I hate repetitive noises more than anything that would piss me off and I think I would literally go insane.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So later that night, the Logan's were called back to the house in dollar by the family who were concerned because Virginia had fallen into another trance. And they were like, yeah, we haven't experienced this before so we're not really sure what to do.

[Alayna]

Not sure.

[Ash]

So when they got to the home, Dr. Logan discovered that Virginia was sitting up in bed, quote, talking in a loud, unnatural voice, calling for Toby and Anna and throwing herself about the bed. According to Logan, even though Virginia's eyes were closed, she heard and responded to questions normally. But she did note that her responses indicated a lack of shyness that was typically present in Virginia's personality. Like usually, usually she was like a pretty soft spoken, shy child. But when she was answering these questions it was very like confident.

[Alayna]

Yeah. Just like outside of the.

[Ash]

Her natural kind of.

[Alayna]

That's an interesting, like little side effect.

[Ash]

Yeah. So the doctor stayed with her for 10 or 15 minutes until she did eventually emerge from the trance and she did eventually fall asleep. But they were like, what the fuck? They just had never seen anything like that.

[Alayna]

It's just like none of it adds up.

[Ash]

No. And it's not. And none of it is like of typical poltergeist activity.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like obviously the moving of the furniture and that kind, the tapping noises. But, but just. I don't. It's not your typical poltergeist story.

[Alayna]

Yeah, it's very strange.

[Ash]

So Virginia returned home the next day, November 30, and the family actually reported no unusual activity. But that break did prove to be short lived because the noises returned the following night just around the time. And it always seems to be around the time that the girls are getting ready for bed, of course, which makes you think that it's a prank, but then they try to figure it out. And there's no way that the girls are causing this.

[Alayna]

Yeah, it's like what the.

[Ash]

So just before 9pm Dr. Nisbet and Dr. Logan set up a camera in the girl's bedroom, hoping to capture any of this activity on film. Now the camera captured long periods of Continual noise, quote, ranging from barely perceptible tappings to agitated knocks, more rippling of the bed cover, and quote, a considerable, a considerable amount of hysterical talking by Virginia in which she showed the same lack of inhibition she had previously in her trances.

[Alayna]

Huh.

[Ash]

So she's, she's this very like confident, outspoken girl in her trances, and then.

[Alayna]

When she's awake and out and about, she's very shy and reserved.

[Ash]

Yeah, it's just interesting. So that same night, Reverend Lund arrived at the Campbell house in the company of three other local ministers to conduct a service of intercession, I believe is what it's called. It's not an exorcism. Those would become more popular in the media in the following decade. But what they were doing. Now, a service of intercession is basically just a prayer session where a group prays to their God on behalf of another person.

[Alayna]

Okay.

[Ash]

In this case, Virginia.

[Alayna]

Okay.

[Ash]

So throughout the 15 minute prayer session, these men who were praying over her reported hearing considerable loud banging, quote, a harsh rasping, sawing noise and screams and bouts of hysterical talking from Virginia, which they described as babbling.

[Alayna]

What the fuck?

[Ash]

So this was clearly agitating the entity.

[Alayna]

Ew.

[Ash]

Now, the activity which had begun about a week earlier had not only been disruptive to everybody involved, but also to the large number of witnesses to the phenomenon. It wasn't just Virginia that was going through it. It was everybody.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Now usually in paranormal cases similar to this one, first hand experiences are limited.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But Virginia's poltergeist had never really been shy about demonstrating its abilities. And it was only a matter of time, of course, before the press got onto the story. Of course you knew what was coming.

[Alayna]

Of course.

[Ash]

So the intercessional prayer session coincided with an article that was published on the wire by United Press International. The article, it kind of annoys me when they do things like this because it, it was poking fun at this. It had. And it's like, this is an 11 year old girl.

[Alayna]

That's the thing.

[Ash]

It's like, it's one thing if this is adults and even that's like pretty rude. But yeah, you don't need to make fun of people.

[Alayna]

You definitely don't need to make fun of an 11 year old. No.

[Ash]

So it had an unserious tone, but at the same time it did lay out some of the facts that had occurred. It emphasized the ways in which Virginia's quote unquote ghost was disrupting the class. And Virginia's teacher, Margaret was interviewed for it. And she told Reporters. I don't believe in the supernatural. But I was mesmerized by what I saw. And she was referring to that movement of the desk. She said it looked like an elaborate practical joke, but there was no string and no one touched the desk when it moved.

[Alayna]

Wow.

[Ash]

So she was like, I don't believe in the supernatural, and even I can't explain it.

[Alayna]

I was just gonna say. But she's like, I don't believe in the supernatural, but I have no idea how they did that. It's like, I think you might believe.

[Ash]

In the supernatural now. Now, in addition to the description of paranormal activity occurring at school, the UPI article noted that the rumors. I just said that, like Meredith Marks a little bit. There's this new clip on Housewives where one of the housewives goes, the rumors, the way she says it, is wild. I'm going to play it for you later.

[Alayna]

Please do.

[Ash]

But the UPI article noted the rumors that had been making their way around town. And quote, villager said they understood church authorities would be consulted to determine if this case was warranting of an exorcism.

[Alayna]

Oh, here we go.

[Ash]

Now, you can assume the writer was referring to Reverend Lund. Like, they were like, is this motherfucker gonna start an exorcism? Because he had been involved with the case from the very beginning.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And up to this point had never made any mention. Excuse me. Of an exorcism. But this news report raised concern among the reverend and the doctors and Virginia's family that any additional attention was going to make things harder for Virginia.

[Alayna]

Oh, damn.

[Ash]

They were like, we, like, all these articles are going to up. Like, yeah, we don't need this.

[Alayna]

Which. I mean, yeah, she's 11. Yeah.

[Ash]

So after discussing it with the family, the men decided that the best course of action would be to report to the news service that with help from her doctors and the reverend, the problem had been solved. They were like, we just need them to believe that this is over and.

[Alayna]

We can do this privately.

[Ash]

They're going to be like a dog with a bone.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Now, in their joint statement, the three men, which is the doctors and the reverend, they provided some small details about the activity, saying, we concluded that the happenings could not be accounted for in the normal sense of cause and effect. And writing on behalf of the church, the statement went on. When the observances did not quickly disappear, we attempted to help the child by changing her environment and to deal by means of sedatives with her hysteria, which we all agreed was a secondary emotional effect. We realized the need not only for medical care for the child, but also spiritual help for the whole family. And we consulted certain ministers who have had the experience of abnormal phenomena of a similar nature all along. We have recognized the possible importance of restoring the child to her previous environment in Ireland. In our opinion, the phenomena are rapidly diminishing and it is our belief that they may soon disappear altogether. So they were like, things are really chilling out over here. Nothing to see.

[Alayna]

Yeah, don't worry about it. We fixed it.

[Ash]

Now the statement. Good, good, good. Cool, cool, cool.

[Alayna]

Awesome.

[Ash]

So the statement actually seemed to satisfy a lot of inquiring minds about town. But some local news outlets still wanted more information, of course, and when none of the three men would provide any additional details, they looked elsewhere. So in an article from December 2, 1960, the paper quotes secretary of the Aloha Spiritualist Church, James Henderson saying. In my opinion, this little girl has certain unusual psychic qualities. And I am convinced that some person who has passed on is trying to communicate through her. I believe that a responsible medium should be taken to see the little girl, for such a person could certainly help her.

[Alayna]

Huh.

[Ash]

Which, okay, I get it.

[Alayna]

Interesting.

[Ash]

Now that same article goes on to quote a spokesperson for the spirit or the. The spokesperson for the Spiritualist National Church. That's mouthful.

[Alayna]

It is.

[Ash]

And that's James McNee. He said happenings such, such as are taking place with this little girl are not nearly so unusual as many people think. And contrary to popular opinion, they are not necessarily evil in nature. Children are much more alive physically than adults are. And often, although unconscious, real mediums, if much of what is called their blethers was seriously examined, they would be discovered to contain communication from people who have passed on. So basically he's saying, what I think a lot of people believe is that kids are more susceptible to like seeing spirits, making friends with spirits, being visited.

[Alayna]

By spirits, being open to spirits, being.

[Ash]

Open to it because they, they're not as scared of it yet because they haven't had the experiences yet.

[Alayna]

And their mind is more open and.

[Ash]

Their mind is more open.

[Alayna]

As we get older, we close our mind a ton.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Alayna]

Which sucks because like we put up boundaries in our own minds.

[Ash]

I want to see a ghost. I mean, I've already seen a few, but I want to see some more. But yeah. Today is the worst day of Abby's life. The 17 year old cradles her newborn son in her arms. They all saw how much I loved him. They didn't have to take him from me. Between 1945 and the early 1970s, families shipped their pregnant teenage daughters to maternity homes and forced them to secretly place their babies for adoption in hidden corners across America. It's still happening. My parents had me locked up in the godparent home against my will. They worked with them to manipulate me and to steal my son away from me. The godparent home is the brainchild of controversial preacher Jerry Falwell, the father of the modern Evangelical rite and the founder of Liberty University. We're powerful men in bold, emboldened by their faith, determine who gets to be a parent and who must give their child away. Follow Liberty Lost on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. So despite that statement, though, or the statement that Lund, Nesbitt and Logan had made, the press, like I said, maintained an interest in Virginia's story that went on for weeks, capitalizing on quotes from teachers, classmates. And then finally, it did die out a few weeks later.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Now, although the statement put out by Lun, Nesbit and Logan had kind of been intended to convince the press and neighbors that the problem had been resolved and there was nothing more to see, the fact was, actually, following the intercession service performed on the evening of December 1, the activity had seemed to come to an end. So they were like manifesting kings and.

[Alayna]

Queens, I was gonna say. There you go.

[Ash]

Now, aside from one more incident at school in late January where a bowl of bulbs moved across Ms. Stewart's desk, there were no additional reports of disturbances from the Campbells or their neighbors. Now, I don't know if that's just because they were worried about the press continuing to bother them or genuinely, the shit just stopped.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Now, the story did end up getting new life in the summer of 1965 when George Owen released his book Can We Explain the Poltergeist?

[Alayna]

Can we?

[Ash]

Can we? I like that title.

[Alayna]

I always love when a book title is a question.

[Ash]

I do, too.

[Alayna]

It's fun.

[Ash]

Can we?

[Alayna]

Can we?

[Ash]

Let's find out. Read this book. So in his book, Owen, who is a Trinity College mathematics professor, he explores the potential realities of poltergeist phenomena. Phenomena, excuse me, paying particular attention to Virginia's experience. The book isn't exclusively about Virginia's case, but it did revive interest in that case in the UK, especially with the tabloid newspapers. In a 1965 article in the Sunday Mirror, five years after this had originally happened, the paper played up the family's rural origins and supposedly superstitious nature of Irish people, describing Donegal as a quaint, isolated part of. I think it's IRA is how you say it. It's E I R E I era. You're supposed to say it with, like, an accent. But I'm not going to do that because it's not my accent.

[Alayna]

Yeah, I don't. I have no idea.

[Ash]

But it says where banshees are said to wail before death and tiny leprechauns prance at the bottom of the gardens. So basically, they were, like, kind of poking fun at their Irish roots, which.

[Alayna]

They were being like, they're Irish, so they're probably dumb and think stupid things. And it's like, wow. Yeah, okay.

[Ash]

Like, they're like, oh, they're just superstitious. Because folklore, it's like, off. It's like, cool.

[Alayna]

Thanks. Like, yeah, I just did a big old bird say. She just flipped me off in case anyone was.

[Ash]

But it was the Sunday Mirror. It wasn't you. Fuck you, Elena.

[Alayna]

Fuck you for no good reason. Just for the hell of it.

[Ash]

For no good reason. Just in the middle of this episode. Fuck you. I really like, fuck you for no good reason.

[Alayna]

Right. That's a good cue. For no good reason.

[Ash]

I like that.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

For the most part, the articles that followed the release of Owen's book told the story of Virginia's experience with the poltergeist that she and her friends had come to refer to as Wee Huey. That's where We Huey comes in. Eventually, Virginia named her poltergeist Wee Little Hewie. I love that. She was like, you know what? He needs a name.

[Alayna]

Hell, yeah.

[Ash]

But eventually, they got around to the question every reader wanted answered. Answered. What caused the poltergeist? Now, most people simply believed it was a matter of what Owen called. I hate the name of this theory. It's called the Naughty Little Girl Theory. But he.

[Alayna]

That's upsetting.

[Ash]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't love it. It's just, you know.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But he basically was saying that. Or this theory was saying that the activity was nothing more than a prank caused by Virginia herself. After all, she had been through a serious disruption in her life, maybe, you know, feeling anxious or unstable with both parents absent. So she created the We Huey scenario in order to get attention. That was one theory.

[Alayna]

Okay.

[Ash]

I personally don't buy that one because we've looked at all the ways in which she couldn't have caused what was going on.

[Alayna]

Well, that's the thing. It's like, that would be a. That would be a very good theory. And it makes sense. There wasn't times when even adults were like, I don't Know how she could have done that?

[Ash]

Exactly. And like, the. The thought process behind the theory makes sense when you look at the disruption in her life and everything.

[Alayna]

All the.

[Ash]

Yeah, but then, like you said, even the adults were like, nope, no way.

[Alayna]

That's where it's confusing because it's like, how did she pull that shit off?

[Ash]

So that's where you kind of have to ax that theory. And it's great that you have to. Anyway.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Now, Owen acknowledged the possibility that some of the activity actually could have been caused by Virginia or her niece Margaret. But he rejected the belief that the entire thing was a hoax. He told a reporter, it is possible to suppose one could be the victim of illusion or hallucination. However, it is beyond all possibility that everyone could be deceived over such a long period of time.

[Alayna]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[Ash]

So if it wasn't a hoax, what was it?

[Alayna]

It was wee Little Huey.

[Ash]

Well, Owen said when girls are approaching puberty, they often seem to attract poltergeist phenomena. There are many cases which suggest that activity is more likely to arise in that age group. Group.

[Alayna]

That's weird. As.

[Ash]

And it's be. I guess it's because your body is going through a lot of upheaval.

[Alayna]

That's real weird.

[Ash]

It is a little weird.

[Alayna]

I don't like it.

[Ash]

I don't love it.

[Alayna]

I don't like connecting it to puberty.

[Ash]

I don't know why.

[Alayna]

It just gives me the.

[Ash]

It gives you the. It feels icky. I get what he's saying, and I. I don't think he's saying it, like, to. In.

[Alayna]

No, no, no. I don't. I'm not. I'm not, like, offended by him or anything. I'm just.

[Ash]

No, just.

[Alayna]

For some reason that just always makes me think, like.

[Ash]

Yeah, I know. You know, I totally. It has like a. Yeah, well.

[Alayna]

And it's such a shitty time, like puberty anyways. And it's like to add that, like. And you know what?

[Ash]

You might get possessed willingly attract a.

[Alayna]

Poltergeist while you're at it.

[Ash]

I.

[Alayna]

Come on. I mean, that sucks.

[Ash]

But then it kind of makes sense because there are, like, a lot of entities like poltergeists and all different kind of entities that will attach to somebody while they're going through serious upcoming upheaval in life. Like your hormones being all out of.

[Alayna]

Whack and like, wow, we should start warning kids about that. We should start being like, here's the ins and outs of puberty and what you can expect.

[Ash]

Here's the Poltergeist.

[Alayna]

You might also attract a poltergeist. There's really not a lot you can do.

[Ash]

Need to break it to your kids.

[Alayna]

Yeah, that's. That's part of the side effects of.

[Ash]

Puberty that might be. That might make those classes a little bit more fun because do you remember when, like, they would separate the girls and the boys and like six, they'd be like, here's what's gonna happen to your body. And you were like, fuck my whole life.

[Alayna]

I also love that because I'm like, yeah, definitely don't teach them what happens to the other, you know, like, set of students.

[Ash]

Oh, I remember.

[Alayna]

None of you should understand each other in any way.

[Ash]

No. We had to sit there and watch all these fucking wild ass videos and the boys were like, we just played like a game.

[Alayna]

Yeah. They're like, our voice might crack.

[Ash]

Yeah, okay.

[Alayna]

Or you might be possessed by a fucking poltergeist.

[Ash]

How do you like those assholes?

[Alayna]

It could be real easy or real hard for you.

[Ash]

You. Exactly. So Owen theorized that moving from Ireland to a new home where she was uncomfortable, along with those feelings of law, from loss, from having parted with her dog and her best friend, left Virginia, quote, in a state of some tension. And he believed the result was, quote, circumstances may well have triggered off a physical force around her which is not yet known to science. Now, unfortunately, while Owen could offer those theories as to what may have triggered the paranormal events around Virginia, he was at a loss to explain precisely how those phenomena function. But the Sunday Mirror summarized, and I really hate the summarization, but go off. Sunday Mirror. They said if a girl is emotionally upset during her 28 day cycle, she can acquire an unexplained power strong enough to move things without touching them. And Owen agreed with that summation, adding, we are ignorant to the nature of this force and have no idea how it is applied. We cannot even begin to understand its potential. But one thing seems fairly certain. The hidden force is wild and uncontrollable at the moment. It's probably why we won't let women be president over here, I guess. Just out here, just out here moving things. And we don't know why.

[Alayna]

I had no idea that during that time.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alayna]

That I was so fucking powerful.

[Ash]

I mean, I've never Matilda during my cycle, but go on.

[Alayna]

Ovaries are scary as ovaries.

[Ash]

I mean, they are a little scary. Ovaries hurt sometimes.

[Alayna]

That is. That's hilarious that that's how they summarize this entire thing. They were like Welp, yeah.

[Ash]

Periods. Periods.

[Alayna]

They are, like, wily, and they can create demonic presence in a home. And it's like, no, no. I am the demonic presence in my home during that time.

[Ash]

You're like, georgiou. And you are confused.

[Alayna]

Yeah. I'm like, I don't need an outside entity to make that happen. Like, don't you worry.

[Ash]

It ain't we Huey. It me.

[Alayna]

It's not we Huey.

[Ash]

I am the demonic force. Mikey just texted us. Ovaries are scary as fuck, y' all. We should get a shirt that says.

[Alayna]

That ovaries are scary as fuck, y' all.

[Ash]

It is not the demonic force. It's me.

[Alayna]

It's me.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alayna]

Honestly. Wow. But that got hilarious at the end.

[Ash]

I was excited to present you that theory. I was writing it and I was like, I don't even personally want to look further into this.

[Alayna]

I like the Go Off Sunday Mirror.

[Ash]

Go Off Sunday Mirror. I'm like, okay. Did a man write that?

[Alayna]

That's awesome.

[Ash]

Probably.

[Alayna]

That's awesome.

[Ash]

Yeah. So the flurry of public interest around the case in Owen's book did die down after a few weeks, and the case of Virginia Campbell went back into the corners of people's minds. And it wasn't until about 30 years later that Virginia's experience popped up again in the News in the mid-90s.

[Alayna]

It was the 90s.

[Ash]

It was the 90s. Kevin.

[Alayna]

Kevin, Kevin.

[Ash]

But thank you to the interests of a high profile paranormal investigator, Malcolm Robinson. His mother grew up in the Soki area, and he said, I initially looked into the case in 1987, but I never got anywhere. However, I had more success in 1994 when I looked at it again. So initially, he was kind of trying to investigate this, like I just said, and he was struggling to find anybody related to the case, and all his letters and his phone calls were going unanswered. But then in 1994, he tracked down one Margaret Davidson, formerly Stewart, Virginia's former teacher. Oh. And as one of the primary witnesses, she was actually an ideal reporter, not only because of the respectability of her position, but also because of her son. Seemingly. Excellent memory, huh? She said, I had never really heard the word poltergeist before. I thought it was some kind of medicine. That's how naive I was.

[Alayna]

Poltergeist. Go to poltergeist and call me in the morning.

[Ash]

Imagine now, over the course of their conversation, she was able to verify much of what had been reported on in the press. And she also was able to fill in some gaps for Robinson for instance, during the peak interest in the story, as the press was relentlessly pursuing the family and actually even waited Outside of school, Mrs. Stewart, formerly was able to tell this reporter that one of Virginia's classmates actually ended up donning her coat and backpack in an attempt to lead the press away from the school so that Virginia could leave without being harassed.

[Alayna]

Oh, my God.

[Ash]

Like, that's how bad things got.

[Alayna]

Oh, damn.

[Ash]

So you can see why. And I love that the reverend and like the doctors were like, we need to put a stop to this because she deserves to live a normal life. Yeah.

[Alayna]

Like, we don't want to make this a big. A big media hullabaloo. Yeah. If they were like all about it, it would be one thing.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alayna]

But the fact that they wanted it.

[Ash]

To go away and to protect her. It's so pure.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And you don't really hear that a lot when we talk about these kind of stories. Usually it's very like you're like, what's happening here?

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So Davidson also added some of the less savory details that wouldn't have been published by the press in the 60s, including a frightening incident where Virginia was harassed by a woman who believed her to be, quote, one of God's chosen ones and asked if she could touch her. Oh.

[Alayna]

Oh, what? Oh, somebody just. You walk up to a child and ask if you can touch them.

[Ash]

Because I think you're one of God's chosen ones.

[Alayna]

I'd be like, you better hope you are because I'm about to send you into eternity right now for asking my child if you can touch them.

[Ash]

Like. Like, what the fuck?

[Alayna]

Damn.

[Ash]

Weird.

[Alayna]

That's fucked up.

[Ash]

That's. Yeah, that's not good.

[Alayna]

Ew.

[Ash]

So for the most part, Robinson's investigation just kind of reiterated what was already reported in Owen's book 30 years earlier. It didn't offer a ton of additional details other than the ones I just mentioned.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Or really any new theories that could explain what happened to Virginia. But it did underscore what made this case so fascinating in the first place. Case, because like I said a little bit earlier, unlike the majority of supposed hauntings and so called poltergeist activity that had been reported on before and since Virginia's claims had been made, this poltergeist case does remain one of the few that still defies explanation.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because we still have no idea what the fuck happened and why it did.

[Alayna]

They couldn't confirm or debunk it.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Alayna]

Which is always the ones you wanna. You wanna pay attention to. Mm.

[Ash]

Now, as Owen pointed out in 1965, obviously it's possible to trick someone, like one person or even a handful of people into believing something is real. But to trick multiple professionals with no connection to this home and an entire classroom full of students and a teacher and like a myriad of other people into seeing and hearing things that weren't there? No way.

[Alayna]

No.

[Ash]

So this really happened. Meaning it's entirely possible that there is some truth to Owen's conclusion. The poltergeist phenomena were real and not due to trickery, ground tremors, or induced weightlessness. That was a quote.

[Alayna]

Induced weightlessness.

[Ash]

I like that. So Virginia Campbell's experience with W.E. hughie the Poltergeist is in a lot of ways similar to so many other stories, except for the fact that people believed her. And that's really the only difference at all, that from the moment everything began, she was taken seriously.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So. But maybe that is why this particular case lacked the level of aggression and violence that we see in so many other cases. And maybe that's also why it was kind of resolved in a relatively short matter of time, because everybody gave it the attention it deserved and believed her.

[Alayna]

Exactly. Like this thing didn't feel like it needed to get bigger and bigger to prove that it existed. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ash]

So in the weeks and months after the intercessional prayer, the Campbell said they experienced only occasional activity in the form of knocking noises and a slight, slight movement of objects, but nothing at all like they had experienced in late November of 1960.

[Alayna]

Damn.

[Ash]

And a few months after the press coverage ended, James, Annie and Virginia did move out of Thomas and Isabella Campbell's house and into their own home in the Scottish Midlands, seeming to leave little wee Huey behind. And Soki, see you, We Huey. Bye now. A few years later, after she finally settled into her new life in Scotland, Virginia got a job working in a factory. And she was free of disruptive forces. So she was able to enjoy the things that. That girls like to enjoy.

[Alayna]

Good for her, man.

[Ash]

People like to enjoy. Now, in a final note, closing out the series of articles in 1965, Virginia said of the poltergeist, it never really worried me, but for the sake of others, I hope it never returns.

[Alayna]

Ooh.

[Ash]

And that is the end of We Huey the Soki Poltergeist. What an end to that. I hope it never returns.

[Alayna]

See, this has like, it's poltergeisty, but it's also like a little Fae realm to me.

[Ash]

I could see that totally.

[Alayna]

It feels very Fae's fucking around or Something like one of those little fuck around, fuck around, find out Fae. I feel like it's. And maybe it's because I'm reading the girls and I are reading the Spiderwick Chronicles at night now. Like, we're going through the whole series and it's all about, like, Faye and shit. But it reminds me, it's weird that you did this one while we're reading the. That always works.

[Ash]

That always happens to us.

[Alayna]

It always lines up because we're reading those. And it just kept making me think about it, all the, like, mischief and shit.

[Ash]

Yeah. I meant to say your case that you did earlier. I'm not gonna say the. The true.

[Alayna]

The Tor Shorker.

[Ash]

Tor Shorker Witch trials. I did say it. Yay. There was like a date that you had mentioned in the whole case. And I think it's releasing around the same time.

[Alayna]

Like, oh, that is weird.

[Ash]

Yeah. Isn't that weird?

[Alayna]

That is very.

[Ash]

We always have things like that happen. Yeah.

[Alayna]

Oh, yeah. Because I think the actual trials were October. Yeah, they were October 10th or something.

[Ash]

I think you're right. And I think it's. I think you said like the 12th or the 15th.

[Alayna]

Yeah, probably. I think that's just in my head.

[Ash]

But it was. I think it's releasing around that same time. So it's just weird.

[Alayna]

Very weird. Weird things. I wish I could say we do. That would make us a lot more, you know, with it. But I think this is just the universe guiding us here.

[Ash]

I was gonna say maybe we are super with it.

[Alayna]

Yeah.

[Ash]

We just don't even know how with it. We are.

[Alayna]

We're the most with it.

[Ash]

Yeah. Kids. What is that gif of the guy doing the kid? Like, like with the kids?

[Alayna]

Oh, hello, youths.

[Ash]

Hello, youths.

[Alayna]

Hello, youths.

[Ash]

Hello, universe.

[Alayna]

Hello, kids.

[Ash]

I don't know.

[Alayna]

I don't know. You know, that was a crazy story.

[Ash]

It was.

[Alayna]

And I like that it wasn't debunked or confirmed.

[Ash]

I know. I. I wish it had been confirmed somehow. Like, I wish they did get to the bottom of it and, like, what really happened.

[Alayna]

I know.

[Ash]

But it is kind of cool that they didn't. And it is kind of cool that Virginia was like, listen, I don't know what happened.

[Alayna]

I love it. I don't know. That was. That was that. But, like, let's hope it doesn't come back for everyone else's sake. And it's like, oh, drop that mike, Virginia.

[Ash]

Like, Virginia, wait to leave us. I know.

[Alayna]

With a gasp.

[Ash]

With, Oh, I know. Crazy story. I had fun doing this. 1 and Dave helped me a lot and it was really fun to do together. So yay David and yay you guys. And we hope you keep listening and.

[Alayna]

We hope you keep it weird.

[Ash]

But not so weird that you blame a 28 day cycle for a poltergeist activity. Because we're the demons.

[Alayna]

That's hilarious.

[Ash]

Sam.

[Alayna]

Sa.

[Ash]

If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Alayna]

Last year, long crime brought you the trial that captivated the nation. She's accused of hitting her boyfriend, Boston police officer John o' Keefe, with her car. Karen Reed is arrested and charged with with second degree murder. The six week trial resulted in anything but resolution. We continue to find ourselves at an impasse. I'm declaring a mistrial in this case. But now the case is back in the spotlight and one question still lingers. Did Karen Reed kill John o' Keefe?

[Ash]

The evidence is overwhelming that Karen Reed is innocent.

[Alayna]

How does it feel to be a cop killer? Karen I'm Kristen Thorne, investigative brief reporter with Law and Crime and host of the podcast Karen the Retrial. This isn't just a retrial. It's a second chance at the truth. I have nothing to hide. My life is in the balance and it shouldn't be. I just want people to go back.

[Ash]

To who the victim is in this. It's not her.

[Alayna]

Listen to episodes of Karen the Retrial exclusively and ad free on Wondery Plus.