Episode 613: Latoya Ammons and the Demon house

Summary

Morbid Podcast Summary: Episode 613 - Latoya Ammons and the Demon House

Podcast Information:

• Title: Morbid
• Host/Author: Morbid Network | Wondery
• Description: “It’s a lighthearted nightmare in here, weirdos! Morbid is a true crime, creepy history and all things spooky podcast hosted by an autopsy technician and a hairstylist. Join us for a heavy dose of research with a dash of comedy thrown in for flavor.”
• Episode: 613: Latoya Ammons and the Demon House
• Release Date: October 28, 2024

---

Introduction to the Case

Timestamp: [07:37]

In this chilling episode, hosts Ash and Elena delve into the harrowing true story of Latoya Ammons, an Indiana single mother who, along with her children and mother, experienced relentless supernatural assaults in their rented home. The narrative draws parallels to infamous cases like the Amityville haunting, setting the stage for a deep exploration of paranormal activity intertwined with real-world consequences.

Initial Experiences in the House

Timestamp: [08:07]

In January 2014, Latoya Ammons, her mother Rosa Campbell, and her three children—Nate (13), Shantae (12), and Andre (7)—moved into a new rental house in Gary, Indiana, seeking a fresh start. Shortly after moving in, the family encountered unusual disturbances:

• Black Flies Infestation: “The house was constantly infested with black flies.” [08:07] This was the first sign of their haunting, with flies appearing in patterns that couldn't be explained by seasonal changes.

Escalation of Supernatural Phenomena

Timestamp: [10:29]

The disturbances quickly intensified:

• Unexplained Noises: “They started hearing just inexplicable noises in the house. Always after midnight...” [10:29] Heavy footsteps, door knocks, and flickering lights became nightly occurrences.

• Shadowy Figures: “Rosa was woken by the sound of footsteps... she saw the shadowy figure of a man just pacing back and forth.” [12:35] These apparitions were not mere fleeting shadows; multiple witnesses, including friends and even officials, reported seeing these disturbances.

Efforts to Seek Help

Timestamp: [29:57]

Desperate for solutions, Latoya and Rosa sought help through various channels:

• Churches and Clergy: Initially reaching out to their local Baptist church, they found little support. “The clergy at their church were sympathetic but didn’t take them very seriously.” [28:44] This led them to connect with churches that specialized in deliverance, eventually finding Reverend Mike Magino who was open to performing exorcisms.

• Clairvoyants: Latoya consulted clairvoyants who informed her that their home was besieged by 200 demons, advising that moving the demons was essential. “The family's house, home was besieged by 200 demons, and the best thing they could do was move 200 demons.” [30:52]

Involvement of Medical Professionals and DCS

Timestamp: [39:28]

As the supernatural events continued, the situation took a toll on the family’s physical and mental health:

• Medical Intervention: Latoya visited her primary care physician, Dr. Jeffrey Anyakwu, seeking answers. “In examining the family, the doctor described... 'delusions of ghosts in the home' and 'hallucinations among the children.'” [40:17]

• Department of Children's Services (DCS): Due to ongoing concerns about the children's well-being and Latoya’s ability to supervise them, DCS intervened. “DCS decided it was in the best interest of the children to temporarily remove them from the home...” [51:15]

Witnesses to the Phenomena

Timestamp: [46:08]

The case gained credibility through multiple eyewitness accounts:

• Police Captain Charles Austin: A seasoned officer who initially skeptically believed in ghosts but was convinced of demonic presence after witnessing unexplainable phenomena. “There was something inside that house that had the ability to do things that I have never seen before.” [59:40]

• Medical Staff: Nurses and caseworkers observed behaviors and incidents that defied logical explanations, such as a child walking backwards up a wall and onto the ceiling.

Exorcism Attempts and Climax of the Haunted Activity

Timestamp: [64:02]

Reverend Mike Magino conducted several exorcisms between May and June:

• Initial Attempts: “Magino instructed Latoya to look up the names of the demons... each time she tried, the computer would shut down without explanation.” [65:09]

• Successful Exorcism: “Magino changed tactics and berated the demons in Latin... Latoya convulsed, fell asleep, and upon waking, no longer experienced any demonic activity.” [66:38]

Despite the success of the final exorcism, the ordeal left lasting impacts on the family, leading to their relocation back to Indianapolis and continued therapy.

Zach Bagans' Involvement and Demolition of the House

Timestamp: [69:14]

The story took a dramatic turn when Zach Bagans of Ghost Adventures purchased the house for $35,000:

• Investigative Documentary: Bagans produced a documentary dubbing the house as the "Next Amityville", emphasizing the severity and unexplained nature of the hauntings.

• Demolition: Declaring the house too dangerous, Bagans had it demolished after the documentary’s release. “There was something very dark, yet highly intelligent and powerful... we're demolishing that house.” [71:11]

Cinematic Adaptation

Timestamp: [71:51]

In 2016, Latoya's harrowing experience was adapted into a film titled "Deliverance", directed by Lee Daniels and starring Andra Day and Glenn Close. This adaptation brought national attention to the case, intertwining cinematic storytelling with real-life terror.

Conclusion and Reflections

Timestamp: [73:37]

Ash and Elena reflect on the complexities of the case, balancing skepticism with acknowledgment of the multiple credible witnesses. They ponder the intersection of mental health crises and alleged supernatural events, emphasizing the profound impact on the family.

• Final Thoughts: “There is something very unexplained in this situation.” [70:17] The hosts agree that while some aspects may be dramatized, the core experiences of the Ammons family suggest a genuine paranormal battle.

Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

1. Elena on Initial Flies:

   • “They killed them and killed them and killed them, but they just kept coming back.” [08:35]

2. Ash on Shadowy Figure:

   • “I can't have the Internet, but yeah.” [08:07]

3. Elena on Church's Response:

   • “These are members of your congregation that are coming to you. Isn't that like, the whole point?” [28:26]

4. Ash on Exorcism Visibility:

   • “It was scary... I'm pretty sure I said at the beginning he was nine years old.” [35:37]

5. Reverend Mike Magino:

   • “There was something very dark, yet highly intelligent and powerful...” [71:11]

6. Zach Bagans on Demolition:

   • “We're demolishing that house.” [71:11]

Key Takeaways

• Multiple Witnesses: The involvement of police officers, caseworkers, and medical staff adds a layer of credibility to the Ammons family's claims of supernatural activity.

• Intersection with Mental Health: The case raises questions about how mental health crises can interplay with or be misinterpreted as paranormal phenomena.

• Church and Community Response: Initial lack of support from their local church pushed the family to seek out specialized religious assistance, highlighting the challenges faced by individuals in distressing situations.

• Impact on the Family: The ordeal had profound effects on the family's physical health, mental well-being, and social relationships, culminating in involvement with DCS and eventual separation from their children.

• Media Adaptation: The transformation of Latoya's story into a documentary and later a movie underscores the public's fascination with haunted house narratives and the blurred lines between fact and fiction.

Final Thoughts

Episode 613 of Morbid presents a compelling and unsettling case that traverses the realms of true crime, paranormal activity, and the struggles of a family under siege. Through detailed narration and insightful discussions, Ash and Elena provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of Latoya Ammons' battle against unexplained evils, the societal and institutional responses to such claims, and the lingering questions about the nature of reality and belief.

Stay Tuned: The hosts hint at upcoming episodes featuring guests and special Halloween content, promising more spine-tingling stories and engaging discussions.

Transcript

[Advertiser]

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[Ash]

Early and ad free.

[Advertiser]

Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[Ash]

You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast.

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[Ash]

It's like when you first light up.

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[Ash]

I'm Ash.

[Elena]

And I'm Elena.

[Ash]

And this is morbid.

[Elena]

This is morbid.

[Ash]

It's morbid.

[Advertiser]

At Ash's house.

[Ash]

In.

[Elena]

It's all different.

[Ash]

Remix, remix, remix.

[Elena]

We have some construction happening in my house, so luckily we have a second recording location.

[Ash]

Yes. I need to work on getting this, like, a little more soundproof. But all the soundproofy things that I found, I don't like.

[Elena]

Like, they're ugly.

[Ash]

I don't like the aesthetic of that. So I have to. I'm gonna work on it.

[Elena]

Yeah, we just gotta get some, like, bookshelves.

[Ash]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's actually gonna be some construction going on at my house in, like, November, so hopefully they're done with your construction.

[Elena]

Yeah, we'll be switching back over to the other. All the construction.

[Ash]

Mucho construction.

[Elena]

Guys. It's still spooky season.

[Ash]

It's still spooky season. We went to our first haunted house of the season. Yes.

[Elena]

Barrett.

[Ash]

It's always Barrett's. You're wearing your sweatpants.

[Elena]

I am. I'm wearing my Barrett sweatpants. They're really comfy, Barrett.

[Ash]

They're so comfy. Yeah, Barrett's in Abington. It's an Abington, right?

[Elena]

I think so. Yeah.

[Ash]

It's like behind the Abington Ale house. It is.

[Elena]

It's top notch.

[Ash]

The best haunted house on the planet. I believe it.

[Elena]

Really? They do. They tear the shit down every year and rebuild it to completely new.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And they do a fucking phenomenal job this year.

[Ash]

The theme is gameplay, and there's all these rooms, like little, like, gaming areas.

[Elena]

Yeah, it's super. It's just so well done.

[Ash]

And I think they spend, like, months getting sets together and you can tell.

[Elena]

Yeah. And all the actors, like, the makeup they do, it's all, like, top level. The process is just really impressive. So if you're looking for a haunted house in the New England area.

[Ash]

That's your.

[Elena]

That's your Barrett, man. You gotta go.

[Ash]

Yeah, we're gonna do a couple more. We were a little lackadaisical this. This year.

[Elena]

We were. Well, we got, like, you know, sidetracked with COVID We got sidetracked with the book tour.

[Ash]

I know.

[Elena]

And now we gotta make up for it. We only got a couple more weekends.

[Ash]

I know. We only have. I guess we have three technically. I feel like we never go on Halloween weekend.

[Elena]

Yeah, we really don't.

[Ash]

I feel like it's too crazy, but.

[Elena]

Maybe we will this year.

[Ash]

Maybe we'll change it up. Where are we gonna go? Yeah, I Also went to a cat show this weekend.

[Elena]

You sure did.

[Ash]

I took the kids to the cat show. Me, my cousin Drew and all the kids. I was like, let's go to a cat show.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And I fought every single urge within my body to not bring home another cat.

[Elena]

Because I mean, yeah, like, if you.

[Ash]

Have four cats go off.

[Elena]

I can't go off.

[Ash]

I can't live a four cat life. And. And my cats will not live a four cat life. I think Franklin would just eat another cat if we brought one home. But they had those. Those like Scottish, like smooshy ones.

[Elena]

Oh, those are so cute.

[Ash]

Yeah, they are.

[Elena]

They are really cute.

[Ash]

They have a lot of health problems.

[Elena]

Oh, no. They're like an English bulldog.

[Ash]

Yeah. I think they're like interbreeded. So they're like. Like it's not cool, actually.

[Elena]

It's not cool. You're like, they're super cute, but it's not.

[Ash]

But I'm like, I want to save you.

[Elena]

I know.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly. I was waiting for you to pick that up. I just scream in the cats face.

[Elena]

Something corporate song into a cat's face.

[Ash]

That's ash energy. Do that today. Pour one out for Scottish cats and sing in your own cat's face.

[Elena]

I think there's something corporate tour just ended, actually.

[Ash]

I just saw that our friend Connor posted and said, we did it.

[Elena]

We love Connor.

[Ash]

I said, you did do it.

[Elena]

You did.

[Ash]

You did. Yeah. You made our lives hell. Yeah, I know. We need to, like, there's things to be done still.

[Elena]

Yeah. There's work to be done.

[Ash]

There's work to be done.

[Elena]

There's guests to be had, guests to be booked. But we don't want to tell you.

[Ash]

No, shut up.

[Elena]

No, shut up.

[Ash]

Imagine if I was serious.

[Elena]

That'd be so sad.

[Ash]

I would never tell you guys to shut up. I actually don't like the phrase shut up.

[Elena]

You don't.

[Ash]

Rude.

[Elena]

Yeah, it is a little rude.

[Ash]

I heard.

[Elena]

If you hear my ice for a second, it's.

[Ash]

We're all alive and we're drinking iced coffee. I made us. It's actually really funny to see you drink. Drinking coffee out of a Mason jar.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because it's not you aesthetically. Aesthetic. Mason jars are kind of my vibe right now.

[Elena]

I love. This is good iced coffee.

[Ash]

Oh, you're welcome. Oh, you're welcome. I do. I do make a pretty good iced coffee.

[Advertiser]

Except I realized this morning that literally.

[Ash]

All of my creamer was expired.

[Elena]

That's true.

[Ash]

Luckily, I didn't realize it in the bad way. I Said, oh, check those dates.

[Elena]

And I checked.

[Ash]

And I said, three out of four.

[Elena]

You gotta be quick in the trip.

[Ash]

Yeah, I know. Well, I think it's still spooky season. I'm pretty sure it is. We'll never really know for sure when these publish.

[Elena]

We're never gonna know when episodes are coming.

[Ash]

Yeah, sometimes.

[Elena]

Sometimes we look at Mikey and say, what day is this coming?

[Ash]

What day is.

[Elena]

What's going on?

[Ash]

Where am I?

[Elena]

Hello? But, you know, someday we'll know.

[Ash]

Well, hopefully it's still spooky, because I put a spooky case.

[Elena]

Hopefully it's still spooky season. I think it is.

[Ash]

Me and Dave Davio worked on this.

[Elena]

Davio.

[Ash]

Davio. Exactly. This is Latoya Amons and the demon house.

[Elena]

The daimon house.

[Ash]

The demon house. This is. If it starts to sound familiar to you at all, this is the case that the movie the Deliverance was based off of.

[Elena]

It's Glenn Close.

[Ash]

Yes. Yeah, it's that one scene that you're all thinking about right now.

[Elena]

And if you're not thinking about it, go Google it.

[Ash]

If you're not thinking about it, you. You can't have the Internet.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like you. You don't have the Internet. You don't have the Internet, but yeah. So it all started in January 2014 when a strange article appeared in the Indianapolis Star about Latoya Amens, an Indiana single mother of three who claimed that for more than a year, she and her kids were absolutely besieged by demons in their rented house.

[Elena]

Oh, damn.

[Ash]

She claimed, among other things, that the house was constantly infested with black flies. So right off the bat, you're haunted.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

The kids were levitated from their beds.

[Elena]

Oh, shit.

[Ash]

Her nine year old son became possessed and walked up a wall backwards.

[Elena]

Oh, my.

[Ash]

Which, like you might say, that's silly. That didn't happen. Multiple people saw this happen that were like, I don't know how to explain what happened to them. And we'll get it. We'll get to that point. And that was just the beginning. By the end of just one year in this house, the family claimed that they were terrorized by all manner of supernatural assaults, from ghostly apparitions to straight up demonic entities.

[Elena]

Oh, my.

[Ash]

Yeah, things were popping off.

[Elena]

Get Rachel Stavis in here.

[Ash]

Rachel.

[Elena]

Rachel, we need you.

[Ash]

Rachel could have cleared this shit up in a minute. 100% in a minute.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

That's our girl.

[Elena]

That's our girl, Rachel.

[Ash]

So her story might have gone completely unnoticed if it wasn't for the surprising number of Witnesses that actually saw these things.

[Elena]

That's what takes us apart.

[Ash]

Yeah. Like family, friends, police officers, social workers. It kind of reminded me of the house of flying objects that you just did. Yeah, because like, people were like people that you wouldn't expect to sign off on this. Yeah, we're signing off.

[Elena]

We're signing off.

[Ash]

But still, Latoya obviously wasn't without skeptics or critics. People accused her of fabricating the story to get out of her lease. And others just assumed that she might have been straight up delusional.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But who knows what the explanation was for the cause of events. Either way, probably one of the most terrifying paranormal experiences I've ever read of.

[Elena]

Damn. Yeah. Let's go.

[Ash]

Let's get into it. So in November 2011, Latoya Ammons, her mother, Rosa Campbell, and Latoya's three children, 13 year old Nate, 12 year old Shantae and 7 year old Andre, moved into their new rental house on this quiet little tree lined residential street in Gary, Indiana.

[Elena]

And that wasn't their real names, right?

[Ash]

No, I'm actually using the names from the movie based on the case, the deliverance. Like we were just saying because the kids names aren't public.

[Elena]

Yeah, but it would have got minors.

[Ash]

Super confusing if I was like child A, child B, child C. Yeah.

[Elena]

And if they're not public, it's like.

[Ash]

So I said movie.

[Elena]

Movie.

[Ash]

But. So the thing was, things hadn't really been like, easy for latoya in recent years. She was struggling to keep the kids on track in school, but. And among other things. But the new house was an opportunity to kind of start fresh. And her main goal was to make good use of that opportunity. She was like, we got a new space. We're in a new area.

[Elena]

Like, let's go.

[Ash]

Fresh start. Unfortunately, things did not work out that way in any way, shape or form. Problems with the house started almost immediately. And it was early December when they started noticing swarms of these large black flies just gathering in the screened in porch. Which was unusual because house flies can't survive freezing temperatures.

[Elena]

Sounds like amityville.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly. But real. Yeah. And rosa remembered thinking, this is not normal. We killed them and killed them and killed them, but they just kept coming back. Which is so gross. Yeah. And then other strange experiences followed pretty quickly. A week or so after they noticed the flies, Latoya and Rosa started hearing just inexplicable noises in the house. Always after midnight, well after the kids had gone to bed. And it sounded like someone with heavy footsteps was walking up the stairs from the basement into the kitchen.

[Elena]

Fuck that.

[Ash]

Which is what we heard our whole.

[Elena]

I was going to say that was my parents house.

[Ash]

You always heard.

[Elena]

And it sounded like work boots walking up the steps.

[Ash]

And sometimes it was like I would hear it in the basement, like at, like late at night. But then sometimes you would hear footsteps on, like, the main stairs too, which.

[Elena]

And you go over there and nothing was there.

[Ash]

Literally nothing. I wouldn't even go over there. I was like, way too scared. But yeah, some they were like, is somebody breaking in the house? Like, yeah. Because they would literally hear the door open and close.

[Elena]

What the fuck?

[Ash]

But they would come out of their bedrooms to investigate. Like, you're a brave ass. There was no sign of anybody in the basement or the kitchen. Kitchen. But they did notice that when they would turn the kitchen light on to get a better look, it would flicker, making a crackling sound for a time and then stop.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

Which is like, so creepy.

[Elena]

That's horror movie, literally.

[Ash]

A few days later, they both decided that they were going to leave their bedroom doors open in the hope that they might catch a glimpse of whoever was climbing the stairs. Because they kept hearing it night after night. So one night, a little after 3am.

[Elena]

Of course, of course.

[Ash]

Rosa was woken by the sound of footsteps, just like all the previous nights. And when she looked out into the living room, she saw the shadowy figure of a man just pacing back and forth.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Elena]

Nope.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Elena]

Just get. Get rid of the whole house.

[Ash]

Burn it down. Bring it to the ground.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So the next morning, she went out to investigate, and she went with Latoya. And they found, quote, what looked like muddy footprints from a boot.

[Elena]

I would assume someone broke in my house.

[Ash]

That's what they thought. Yeah, they 100 thought that, like, completely concerned that someone might be breaking in, they ended up putting a lock on the basement door. But on subsequent nights, they would hear the footsteps climbing the stairs. They would also hear pounding on the door as if whatever it was was trying to get in the kitchen.

[Elena]

What the.

[Ash]

Yeah, I literally have chills. I just talked about it.

[Elena]

Pounding on the door. Like. No.

[Ash]

In the middle of the night.

[Elena]

Ugh.

[Ash]

So they. They're like, dealing with all this. Latoya is trying to keep the kids on track in school, and she's also trying to keep these incidents from the.

[Elena]

Kids because she's like, the shit out of them.

[Ash]

Yeah, they're young. But the speed at which things escalated made it impossible to hide the fact that something was obviously wrong with this house. One Day about a month after moving in, Shantae got home from school, and she went to put her things in her bedroom. But when she tried to open her bedroom door, it wouldn't open. She said it was like as if somebody was holding it shut from the other side.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

So after several tries to force the door, it finally popped open, and there was nobody in the room. What the fuck? She probably assumed it was one of her younger siblings, like, fucking with her.

[Elena]

Yeah. And then no one's in there, and you're like.

[Ash]

You're like, hello.

[Elena]

Hello. In my parents house, we would have been like, oh, the door just swelled.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly the amount of times we blamed, like, weird shit on the swollen doors of the house. Yeah.

[Elena]

Just swelling doors or creaking or the house settling.

[Ash]

It's fine. Don't worry. The middle of winter, we're like, oh, it's. It's the doors. They're swollen.

[Elena]

They're just swollen.

[Ash]

But the family also noticed that there were indications of a problem seemingly all over the house. It wasn't just the basement. The kitchen, just like one bedroom. Their cell phones often failed to work despite full service. The picture on the television was constantly getting interrupted. And Latoya and Rosa had constant mechanical problems with their cars. And the sticks to adjust the venetian blinds always seemed to sway back and forth on their own.

[Elena]

Ew.

[Ash]

Which something about.

[Elena]

Yeah, that's. I just. That's. Ew.

[Ash]

I don't like it. I don't like that. I don't like it. For Latoya, the most disturbing experience was learning the extent of what the children had experienced in the house. Because she's trying to keep this from.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Just like Rosa had seen shadowy fig. That shadowy figure in the living room. The kids also saw what they believed to be spirits in the house. Both boys. This is one of the scariest things you'll ever hear in your life. So buckle up, buttercups. Oh, God. Both of the boys reported seeing an elderly lady in the backyard who they described as looking like, quote, walking death with red eyes.

[Elena]

I got that feeling that, like, we're just like blooms out the chills from within.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

Like, the chill just came from the center of my stomach.

[Ash]

That's a womb.

[Elena]

Yeah, that's just. But it didn't even feel like a womb because to me, that feels more warm.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Elena]

This was a.

[Ash]

It was cold. Yeah, it was. I'm gonna vomit.

[Elena]

Yeah. I don't like that at all.

[Ash]

I think I'm assuming that's probably what, like, who Glenn Close's Character was. But I haven't actually seen the delivery.

[Elena]

When you look at a picture of her character. Yes. Yeah. She looks like walking death with red eyes.

[Ash]

Yeah. And the youngest son, Andre, would spend a lot of time with what he said was a boy his own age who he would, like, play and talk with. And according to Andrea Nate, the boy would typically appear in their closet.

[Elena]

Yo, yo.

[Ash]

Just the long, yo.

[Elena]

When a ghost appears in the closet, they have bad intentions.

[Ash]

100%.

[Elena]

I'm not appearing in someone's closet in the afterlife unless I want to fuck their world up.

[Ash]

You know who appeared in front of the closet for me in my life? She didn't have a body. She was just made of bones.

[Elena]

See?

[Ash]

And I can still see her in my mind.

[Elena]

I'm. Here's the thing. I'm horrified that you witnessed that as a child. It hurts my soul.

[Ash]

But it's a cool story, though.

[Elena]

Would kill to have the image in my head that you have.

[Ash]

I wish you could project it out. Yeah. I'm not an artiste, so maybe I could talk to Sean for mostly horror.

[Elena]

Oh, my God. And describe her in vast detail.

[Ash]

Yes. I think he could draw it. I'm going to text him after this.

[Elena]

Yeah. Sean, if you're listening, we're coming for you.

[Ash]

She had, like, cotton candy hair. Like, it was, like, white, but it was, like, that texture. It was scary.

[Elena]

Yo, you gotta write this down. I don't know why I'm in a place of yo right now, but you need to.

[Ash]

Have you been hanging out with Kayla? You need to.

[Elena]

I know, right? You need to write all these details down so he can make this. Because we all need to see the actual vision of this woman.

[Ash]

It's so funny because I have so many memories of, like, nightmares from when I was little that when I was little, I didn't think were nightmares. Like, I thought they were real. And then now you're like, were they real?

[Elena]

They probably were.

[Ash]

I have a lot of them.

[Elena]

Like, that's scary.

[Ash]

Yeah, it is. But then I'm also like, is it like the trom. Trauma?

[Elena]

I was gonna say, is it trauma?

[Ash]

Is it trauma?

[Elena]

Or it could be nightmare.

[Ash]

I don't know.

[Elena]

Mix of both.

[Ash]

I know for a fact that she didn't have a body. She was just made of bones.

[Elena]

She's.

[Ash]

She was real.

[Elena]

Oh, you said that from the time you were little.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, that was. That was a. That's never changed.

[Ash]

I drive by that building, and I look up at the window, and I'm like.

[Elena]

And you're like, she's up there.

[Ash]

Yeah, she is. I guarantee you interview. If a kid lived in that, they'll.

[Elena]

See she didn't have a body.

[Ash]

She was just made of bones. Definitely.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

100.

[Elena]

But that's the thing. I'm like a kid showing up. And showing up in someone's closet means you mean business.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Because if I'm in the afterlife, I'm showing up. There are some people in my pocket right now that I will show up in their closet. Oh. And it will be me trying to their whole world up.

[Ash]

Absolutely. So I wonder, like, how that works. Like, how do you decide where you.

[Elena]

Like, do you get to sign in for the day? Like, you're like, today, I will be showing up in this person's closet. And you have to, like, sign in.

[Ash]

I kind of like, everybody knows where you are. Yeah.

[Elena]

This person's closet covered.

[Ash]

It's like in Beetlejuice. Sort of like when they're all, like.

[Elena]

Newly deceased, everyone's hanging out. I think it's something like that.

[Ash]

I think so. There's an office for sure.

[Elena]

And who. I'm coming.

[Ash]

Scary. Well.

[Advertiser]

Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, and new ways of thinking. Find the genres you love and discover new ones along the way. Explore bestsellers, new releases, and thousands of included audiobooks and originals that members can listen to all they want with more added all the time. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your daily routine without even needing to set aside any extra time. There's so much more to imagine when you listen. If you listen to these ads that I do. You know, right now, I've been listening to Slew Foot. Listening to this title when I'm in the car, it just makes me feel like I'm driving in a fantasy land. It's just like I'm. I'm transported into this series. It's so good. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.commorbid or text morbid to 500. 500. That's audible.commorbid or Text morbid to 500. 500. To try audible free for 30 days. Audible.commorbid this show is sponsored by BetterHelp, and this month is all about gratitude. So I want to start off this ad by saying thank you to our producer, Mikey for All the hard work he puts into the show. And along with Mikey, there's another person that we really don't thank enough, you guys. That's ourselves. It's sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we're trying our best to make sense of everything. And in this crazy world, that is not always easy. Here's a reminder to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. And, you know, one great way to thank yourself is by spending time on yourself. And where do you spend time on yourself? In therapy, honey. I have become a more calm person, like, way calmer than I used to be. And I feel like that's via therapy, Just having that one hour that I set aside every single week or, you know, every other week, sometimes just dedicated to myself and growing as a human. I think that's really important. I think everybody should get at least one hour to themselves every week, don't you? If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. And all you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.commorbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.commorbid.

[Ash]

Back to the amen haunting. Because it's so scary. The for months, the activity just continued disrupting everybody's lives. And before long, the paranormal activity started affecting the children physically.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

They were experiencing. This is, like, so sad. They were experiencing regular bouts of vomiting, fevers, diarrhea, Things that kept them from going to school.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

Later, latoya also reported that she would discover blood on their pillowcases frequently, and she believed it was coming from their mouths.

[Elena]

Oh, my God.

[Ash]

Yeah. Like, something was up.

[Elena]

Oh, this is so upsetting.

[Ash]

And just, like, so everybody knows. I believe in this one. Like, the. We kind of, like, debunked the amityville horror there. Like, it's already been debunked. So we talked about it. This one, I believe.

[Elena]

This is scary.

[Ash]

It's scary. And just the sheer number of people who witness some, like, the things that latoya was saying.

[Elena]

Well, that's what. That's what's really taking me for a ride is, like, that this isn't, you know, like, the house of flying objects, where it's like, there's one person in the room always, like, you know, you can at Least somewhat be like, maybe it's a mixture of things or it could just be one thing or the other.

[Ash]

Who knows?

[Elena]

This seems like other people that are in higher positions that would go in as a skeptic because they have the best interest of, like, the children and everything in mind are seemingly witnessing this. Like you're saying so like, have social workers and like police officers.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

So that's interesting.

[Ash]

Like literally writing things in their reports of like, this is inexplicable.

[Elena]

That's scary.

[Ash]

Yeah, it is. And then Rosa, her health started like a noticeable decline. She had three different kidney ailments that struck her one right after the other. Oh, and like living in this house up until that point, like, before then, she had been fine. And then she moves into this house and she starts having all these kidney problems.

[Elena]

Kidney shit is bad.

[Ash]

Yeah. Whatever was happening in the house had already taken a serious toll on everybody's physical and emotional health. But things just continued to get worse and worse. On March 10, 2012, the family was all up late into the early hours of the morning. Um, they spent the day morning the loss of a close family friend, unfortunately. And from the living room, Rosa heard Latoya screaming, mama. Mama. So she went running to her daughter's bedroom where she witnessed 12 year old Shanta levitating several feet above her bed, completely unconscious.

[Elena]

What the fuck?

[Ash]

She said. I thought, what's going on? Why is this happening? And she immediately grabbed her bible and the family surrounded Chante, praying over her until she descended back onto the surface of the bed.

[Elena]

What?

[Ash]

Moments later, she woke up with no memory of what had happened. She had no idea that that had just all happened.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

And people are like praying loudly around her. And she didn't wake out cold until she like hit the bed and then like woke up a little bit after. According to Latoya, the guests who were staying at the house that night left and refused to ever come back after the incident. Yeah. So other people saw this and are like, fuck that. And are like, I'm literally never stepping foot in that house again.

[Elena]

My God.

[Ash]

It turned out that the levitation incident was just the beginning of the physical torment that the family was about to endure that weekend. Shantae was sitting on the couch in the living room and she felt something grab her and yank her off the couch, throwing her to the floor a few hours later. So that same day, one of the boys was in the bathroom when he claimed something grabbed him and jerked him to the floor. And this is like awful quote, pulling on his limbs and genitals.

[Elena]

What the fuck?

[Ash]

Yeah, like demon. Demon activity. According to Rosa and Latoya, when they entered the bathroom after hearing his screams, they could see something pushing outward from the inside of his stomach.

[Elena]

What? This is up in every way imaginable.

[Ash]

It's unreal.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

And then a few hours later. So again, same day, Shantae was targeted again. This time, she was lifted off the ground and thrown into the refrigerator.

[Elena]

My God.

[Ash]

Insane. It turned out that whatever kids I.

[Elena]

Know and this poor parent, like, Jesus, just everybody witness happening to their kids.

[Ash]

And it's sadly. And this is not a family that can just, like, pack up and go to a hotel for, like, that's the thing. It's not, like.

[Elena]

That's not, you know, an option for.

[Ash]

For a lot of people.

[Elena]

Like, that's the thing, like, to just be like, oh, well, that. I guess we'll just go, right. Pay this rent and also pay for something else.

[Ash]

Exactly. And this is bigger family, too. Like, this is five people people. That's a lot.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

So it turned out whatever was harming Rosa, latoya and the children also wasn't limiting it to just to the family. Later, after family and friends left the memorial that they had at the house, several of them reported that something, quote, followed them home, giving them a heavy feeling or headache that took a couple weeks to finally dissipate.

[Elena]

What?

[Ash]

And this is multiple people who said this, and we'll get there in a little bit. But a police officer also claimed this.

[Elena]

Holy shit.

[Ash]

Yeah. It's interesting.

[Elena]

Again, this isn't just this family being like, oh, yeah, when no one's here, all this shit is happening. And you're like, yeah.

[Ash]

No. People would come over and see and be like, I'm never going back to that house. And then they'd go and have their own follow them. Oh, my God. Crazy.

[Elena]

That's terrifying.

[Ash]

So it got to the point where no one wanted to come over. And a lot of people weren't even down to, like, associate too closely with the family because they were scared. Yeah. So while Latoya and the kids had already endured various forms of unexplained phenomena and forms of supernatural harassment, I guess you could call it, the incidents that occurred on or around March 10th were much more aggressive than any of the ones.

[Elena]

Oh, God. How?

[Ash]

Rosa Campbell told her daughter, we need help. We need to talk to somebody who knows how to deal with it. But neither woman knew precisely what it was. They were pretty convinced, though, that it was supernatural in nature. So they went to the church to Try to rid their lives of this.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Which, honestly, I'm not even a believer, and I think if all of this was happening to me, I might find a church.

[Elena]

I don't even know. Like, that's. And especially if you're already. You're already religious, like, that's going to be your.

[Ash]

That's where you go, your outlet. So they started with the leadership at the church they attended, but they were pretty disappointed to discover that while the clergy at their church were sympathetic, they didn't really take them very seriously. And that's up. It is. It is up. And they said, like, sorry, we don't know what we can do to help.

[Elena]

It's like, these are members of your congregation that are coming to you. And isn't that, like, the whole point of you.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

You're supposed to offer times of need.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

You're supposed to offer your assistance.

[Ash]

You would think.

[Elena]

And aren't, like, demons your thing.

[Ash]

Also, you're passing that donation basket around, I'm sure.

[Elena]

Like, come on. This poor family, like, this mother with three children that she's taking care of by herself with her mother living with her. You're not going to try to help?

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

Like, just come in and do a blessing. That's, you know, like, just bless the house. You don't need to do an exorcism. You don't need to do anything crazy. Just come in and say. Most churches, like, I think a house blessing is pretty standard.

[Ash]

Standard. I was gonna say, I feel like every paranormal case that we, like, talk about where the church does get involved, they at least come down and do a blessing.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

A lot of times they're like, yeah, I don't know what we can do, but we'll do the blessing.

[Elena]

Yeah. I don't.

[Ash]

It doesn't even sound like they did that for real.

[Elena]

And that reminds me, if you guys haven't read the September House yet by Carissa Orlando, read it.

[Ash]

Nice.

[Elena]

Especially this spooky season.

[Ash]

Yeah, read it. Okay.

[Elena]

It's a real good book. And this made me think about it a little bit.

[Ash]

Oh, okay.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So they were even more disappointed to find out that this was the case with all the other churches in the area. They went and talked to multiple officials at multiple churches, and all were sorry to hear about what was going on, but they said they weren't in a position to assist.

[Elena]

We can't come and just bless your house. We make you feel better.

[Ash]

We can't. We won't.

[Elena]

We can't. We can't make you feel better. Sorry.

[Ash]

Sorry.

[Elena]

Like, and that's.

[Ash]

You believe your whole life in something.

[Elena]

Like, they don't help you in your time of need.

[Ash]

They turn their back on you.

[Elena]

And this seems like a demon. And isn't that the whole thing? Like, the whole thing is, like, demons suck. Like, let's get rid of them.

[Ash]

I think.

[Elena]

So isn't that the whole shebang? So it's like, I'm pretty sure you can't just come in and toss some holy water around, at least to make. Maybe this will help make that family feel better.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly.

[Elena]

Like, you don't even need to be like, a, you know, an official ceremony or anything. Just come in, bless.

[Ash]

To be anything crazy.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Do anything.

[Elena]

Literally anything.

[Ash]

But after failing to find literally any help within the churches in their area, Rosa called her mother, Ruth, and explained to her what was going on. And it just so happened that Ruth had a neighbor who, quote, belonged to a church that dealt with deliverance more than Rosa and Latoya's baptist church. So the neighbor offered to speak with the pastor at her own church to see what they could do to help. Now, while she waited to hear back from Ruth's neighbor, Latoya and Rosa took the advice of one local church, and they cleaned the house from top to bottom with ammonia, and then they used olive oil to make the sign of the cross on every door and went, window.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

And they also performed a similar blessing on the children, pouring the olive oil on their hands and feet and making the sign of the cross on their foreheads. So, desperate for any kind of answer, Latoya also re. Reached out to two local clairvoyants who informed her that, quote, the family's house, home was besieged by 200 demons, and the best thing they could do was move 200 demons, which, when you hear that, you're like, what the fuck? That's insane. But also, I feel like it kind of makes sense with the level that they're able to assault. Like, it takes a lot of power. Like, even we were talking, like, energy. The house of flying objects. And that sounded like a poltergeist. Like, that takes a lot of energy to build up. It takes, like, weeks and weeks. And it seems like this started happening to them, like, almost immediately.

[Elena]

Hundred demons.

[Ash]

200 demons.

[Elena]

And that these people are, like, the only thing you can do is get the fuck out of here.

[Ash]

And, like, ultimately, yeah, pretty much. The explanation of the demonic infestation made sense to Latoya and Rosa because they were both devout Christians, but they were barely scraping by as it was. So moving just wasn't financially feasible at that time. So instead they set up several altars around the house, draping end tables and white fabric and adorning them with religious icons, statues, Bible passages. And they also took the advice of the local clairvoyance, and they burned sage in each room of the house from top to bottom until the smoke was so thick that it became difficult to breathe.

[Elena]

I mean, that's not good.

[Ash]

Like, they're desperate.

[Elena]

Like, that's. That's not good for everybody.

[Ash]

Also, if you're saging, you're supposed to have the windows open.

[Elena]

I was gonna say, isn't it. It's not supposed to, like, build up in there.

[Ash]

No. Because the whole thing is, like, saging something out. So this I'm pretty sure, like, the smoke carries it.

[Elena]

Also, like. And again, like, I've always said it, like, I'm. You practice whatever religion you feel. Of course, I would never sway you against that or anything like that. But as someone who doesn't practice that religion or a religion, the idea of this, like, demon infested home and now all these altars are set up, it's.

[Ash]

Gonna piss them off.

[Elena]

Well, no, it just. It. It is so chilling to think of. I'm like, this must have been the scariest setting of just this demonic chaos with all this religious paraphernalia around. Because, like, religious horror, to me, I was just going to say is the scariest. Like, because it just.

[Ash]

The layer. Yeah.

[Elena]

It just brings a different vibe to it. I love it. Like, it's. It really, like, really brings it to a place.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And this, to me is like. But to think that this is real life. Like, because I'm like, this is religious horror right here, like, setting up all the altars. And then I'm like, oh, my God, this was someone's existence.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And, like, three children. And, like, that's so scary.

[Ash]

And imagine just, like, going to sleep for the night.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Just, like, wrapping up the day in that house.

[Elena]

In that house. What's going on in that house. How it's all set up now and.

[Ash]

You'Re at your, like, most vulnerable, and.

[Elena]

They'Re all just desperate as hell. And it's like, I would be living.

[Ash]

At my friend's houses at that point.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I'd be couch surfing.

[Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Seriously.

[Ash]

But it's like, again, but your friends.

[Elena]

Have distanced themselves because they're scared that they're going to have things attached to them.

[Ash]

And there's five people here. Like, you can't just show up on somebody's doorstep.

[Elena]

Entire family.

[Ash]

Like most, most, most people don't have friends that are like, yeah. All five of you can say, like, definitely. Yeah. So to Latoya's surprise, the rituals performed around the house actually seemed like they worked. For three days, things in the Eamon's house were finally peaceful. No incidents, no activity. But the peace they experienced in the wake of the cleansing did not last long. After three days, the assault on the family worsened considerably. So I think it like, pissed them off. Yeah. The demons. According to latoya. The demons. Speaking of the demons, the diamonds. According to latoya, she and each of her children experienced demonic possession. She said the kids eyes bulged, evil smiles crossed their faces, and their voices would deepen every time it happened.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

Yeah. And she said she felt weak, lightheaded and warm. Whenever a demon overtook her body. She said, you can tell it's something different, something supernatural.

[Elena]

I hate this.

[Ash]

Soon after, Andre took to spending his afternoon sitting in the closet with the ghost boy, who often told him what it was like to be murdered.

[Elena]

Oh, my God.

[Ash]

I have chills that just will not evacuate. I like, literally, I'm like, what? Like the fuck? Yeah.

[Elena]

Like my littlest had skeleton that you all know. But skeleton was just sitting there being like, I got a family.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And I'm going to go visit my family.

[Ash]

He said, I'm going to leave. And he never came.

[Elena]

And he just left.

[Ash]

And that's great. And he never. He never, never scared anybody. Never said like, hey, I was murdered.

[Elena]

He just hung out. Yeah. You know, this little. If she told me, like he was telling me what it's like to be murdered. No, I don't know what I do.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

Like I say, I'm like, oh, I would do. No, I don't know what I would do.

[Ash]

I think I just start crying.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

For a long time.

[Elena]

That is such an upsetting thing to think about.

[Ash]

Start crying and never stop. Yeah.

[Elena]

Oh my God.

[Ash]

And eventually the entity started moving from one child to another so quickly that Latoya and Rosa wouldn't have time to react before it moved from one to the other. Like if she was trying to get three kids in the car. She said one would run to the car and start kicking it. One would be restraining, the other would be. And the other would be thrown to the grass. Then one would start cussing or saying it's time to kill.

[Elena]

Do.

[Ash]

Or doing some sort of demonic chant where one would stop and the other would pick up just where the other left off.

[Elena]

What the.

[Ash]

Like.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

And she's just trying to, like, get them in the car to go somewhere for the day.

[Elena]

No, no, no, no, no, no. You know how hard it is to get three kids in the car sans possession?

[Ash]

Yes. Like, yes, I do.

[Elena]

Essentially, our possessed, like, no matter what.

[Ash]

And then you add demonic possession.

[Elena]

State of needing an exorcism, trying to get them into the car. Yes. And then to add actual possession into it.

[Ash]

No. No, thank you.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

And then when the entity would leave them, they would just immediately fall asleep like they were exhausted.

[Elena]

Oh, that's so upsetting.

[Ash]

It is sad. Yeah.

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[Ash]

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[Ash]

Quince.commorbid so by early April, the kids are missing school on a regular basis and the administrators actually became concerned about their well being. So out of options. And with literally no help coming from the church, Latoya took the kids to their primary care physician in the hope that he might know what to do. Yeah, which I think to me proves how desperate she is. She's going to the doctor. Dr. Jeffrey Anyakwu, I believe it is, said 20 years and I've never heard anything like that in my life. I was scared myself when I walked into the room. Wow. So like it was visible what they were going through. A reporter for the India Indianapolis Star was given access to the doctor's clinical notes from the visitor. And he describes, quote, delusions of ghosts in the home and, quote, hallucinations among the children and describes all of them as delusional.

[Elena]

I mean, which he's looking at it from a point of view of like, I can't just sit here and be like, yeah, you have ghosts.

[Ash]

Yeah, they're possessed.

[Elena]

I'm sure that's what's happening. He's seeing these kids going through it. He's thinking, child abuse.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Elena]

And that's gotta be his first concern.

[Ash]

It was, of course, unfortunately, like, you.

[Elena]

Can understand, and I understand that this was probably horrifying from both sides, you.

[Ash]

Know, like, but you can understand the.

[Elena]

Doctor that he's looking, he's thinking of these kids and yeah, you know, he's not in the house.

[Ash]

And unfortunately, Child Protective Services had. They had a history with this family, so they had been involved before. So the doctor's notes are clear that he believed them to be a family experiencing a mental health crisis. The statements from medical staff, but. So he thinks that. But the statements from the medical staff in the office that day actually painted it differently. Picture, really. According to one member of the staff who was later interviewed by D, I think they're DCS now Department of Children's Services. According to one of those workers, during an interview, Latoya told the intake staff many stories, quote, regarding demons and spirits and that her home has various demons and evil spirits due to somebody dying in the home. But regarding the children's behavior staff reported that during the examination, Latoya's youngest son was, quote, lifted and thrown into the wall with nobody touching him.

[Elena]

Like, medical staff saw this happen.

[Ash]

Medical staff who worked. I don't know if they were all doctors or nurses, but, like, the staff. The staff working at this office, like, literally saw this with their own eyes and wrote it down.

[Elena]

Whoa.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And that's the thing, because those are the things that make me just go, what? Because, like, you know, there's some parts of this where you go, like, is. Is there a severe mental health crisis happening here? And, like, some, like, religious delusions and all that stuff. Like, is that happening?

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

And then you see something like that, and you go, what the. Is that right?

[Ash]

Cuz how do you explain that?

[Elena]

How do you explain that?

[Ash]

Cuz you. If he, like, stumbled into the wall. Yeah. I'd be like, okay, that's probably a mental health crisis. He was lifted and thrown into the wall. And there's a crazier thing that happens later that's just inexplicable. Other medical staff reported that this. The specific child was, quote, making growling noises and his eyes rolled into the back of his head.

[Elena]

What.

[Ash]

Which. That I feel like you could kind of do on your own.

[Elena]

Yeah. But still.

[Ash]

Yeah. The situation finally ended when Latoya wrapped her arms around him and he became limp and was placed on the bed. At which point the medical staff actually called. 91 1.

[Elena]

Yeah. Because what the Is going on?

[Ash]

Yeah. They requested emergency services. So several minutes later, an ambulance arrived along with seven or eight police officers, and the children were taken to the Methodist hospital in Gary. According to Rosa, when the boys came to in the hospital, Nate acted rationally, but Andre screamed and thrashed, like, resisting the medical staff.

[Elena]

This is so sad.

[Ash]

It is. It's awful. At the same time, an anonymous call was placed to DCS and requested that the state open an investigation into the possible abuse of the Amons children for possible child abuse or neglect. The caller indicated their belief that latoya was suffering from symptoms of mental illness, and, quote, the children were performing for her, and she was encouraging their behavior, which is awful. But you can understand why somebody.

[Elena]

Why somebody might have thought that if.

[Ash]

They'Re not seeing everything going on in this house, like all of this is behind closed doors.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And then they're just hearing reports of this.

[Elena]

That's the thing.

[Ash]

I can understand.

[Elena]

Their job is to keep children safe.

[Ash]

Yeah. And I can understand their job. Somebody calling, worried about the kids 100%. So DCS caseworker Valerie Washington met the family at the hospital that day and opened the official case into the alleged abuse and neglect. At the same time, all the children were physically examined and found to be free of any outward signs or of abuse. No bruises or anything like that. Meanwhile, Latoya was examined by staff at the Methodist Hospital and determined to be of sound mind.

[Elena]

See, this is the stuff that makes me go, what the fuck is going on here?

[Ash]

It was only in her interviews with the children that Valerie Washington started to think something actually strange was happening within the family, if not the house itself. According to interview notes from a discussion with Shantae, the girl told Washington that, quote, at times she has weird thoughts and unnatural events take place in the home during the evening time. She also reported being thrown across the room and grabbed by dark shadows a few nights ago.

[Elena]

That's horrifying.

[Ash]

So scary.

[Elena]

And for a child to be saying this is so disturbing.

[Ash]

And Shantae's older, I think. I think I said at the top. She's 12.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So she's like, not like a little. Little kid just, like, making up a story. You know what I mean?

[Elena]

Well, and that's the. And also, it's like, for Latoya to be. You know, you're going to be looked at as possibly abusing these children.

[Ash]

Absolutely.

[Elena]

You're going through a mental health crisis. So if this is really happening, you're going out of sheer desperation because, like, you know what you're gonna face.

[Ash]

Absolutely. And she's already faced it.

[Elena]

But she was so desperate that she went for help right when she could have just kept it to herself. If that was what was really happening. You know what I mean?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

If the abuse was happening.

[Ash]

I completely agree.

[Elena]

So it does tell you something that she was so desperate that she opened herself up to this knowing. Because she had to know.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

You know, this was gonna be the first thing they were gonna think of. And she still opened up to it to be, like, helping, please.

[Ash]

Like, I don't know what to do.

[Elena]

Which is so devastating.

[Ash]

And that's. It is. Absolutely. And that's what's so sad about the fact that she went to all the churches. She did first.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I think she was like, can we please, like, find some help here so I don't have to go this other.

[Elena]

So I don't have to go somewhere else and get Thought that I'm hurting my children?

[Ash]

Yeah. Like, that's awful. I can't imagine how that would feel.

[Elena]

Because you hope no parent would ever do something like this to their Children. No, knowingly.

[Ash]

Sometimes DCF does invest or dcs. They're like, called the different thing.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

A lot. I think here it's dcf.

[Elena]

Yeah, I think so.

[Ash]

People call in cases to be assholes when, like, oh, yeah, abuse isn't happening.

[Elena]

Absolutely.

[Ash]

And people are investigating. Yeah, for sure.

[Elena]

Like, they have to.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

They're mandated reporters.

[Ash]

So it's like. So she's going through it and she knew. Exactly. So by far the most unusual event. And this is fucking crazy, by far the most unusual event that day occurred while Andre was being interviewed by Valerie. Valerie Washington. He told hospital staff that, quote, ghosts were attacking him and his brother. But before he could finish his statement, he had a, quote, weird grin and walked backwards up a wall to the ceiling. He then flipped over his grandmother landing on his feet. There were multiple people in this room, including the caseworker, Valerie Washington, who saw this happen.

[Elena]

Okay. I can't explain this.

[Ash]

According. According to those in the room, he never let go of his grandmother's hand. So he held her hand, walked out the wall backwards onto the ceiling and flipped over her body.

[Elena]

I'm. And it. If this again, if this is just the family saying that this happened and no one else was there, and you're like, I would be like, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like, that would be akin to the Amityville story where it's, like, too far. You know, Kathy Lutz got levitated up off the bed and then just levitated towards the closet.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

For no reason.

[Ash]

Like, that's.

[Elena]

I'd be like, no one else was there except for, you know, George Lutz. Why are we saying.

[Ash]

And y'all are trying to make money.

[Elena]

On this, seeing that a social worker was in that room, witnessed it, and wrote it in the report.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

Which puts their own job in danger because it makes them look a little kooky. Kooky.

[Ash]

And there was medical staff in the room who were like, what the fuck?

[Elena]

Yeah. No one else. And people aren't going to be putting their whole fucking careers on the line here.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

To keep up with some hoax for.

[Ash]

No reason anyone, like, police officers were involved at this point. Later, in an interview with the police officers asked maybe if the boy had run up the wall or performed some kind of, like, acrobatic.

[Elena]

Because you got it. You're like.

[Ash]

They were like, yeah, but that. Everybody in the room insisted. No. He walked up the wall backwards and flipped over. One of the nurses at the hospital said he walked up the wall, flipped over, and stood there there's no way he could have done that. And when this happened, both Valerie Washington, the caseworker, and the nurse who was attending to these children ran out of the room in fear. Like, ran out of the fucking hospital room.

[Elena]

Something's. There's 200 demons in this house.

[Ash]

Like, I'm 100. That's the thing.

[Elena]

There's a lot of demons. Like, it's happening.

[Ash]

So when Washington and the nurse, they literally ran out of the room terrified and grabbed a doctor and was like, I don't know what the going boy.

[Elena]

Just walked on the ceiling.

[Ash]

Yeah. Like, let's give words.

[Elena]

Let's fix this.

[Ash]

So they reported to the attending physician what everybody had just seen. And the doctor was like, yeah, off. That didn't happen because, like, how do you. Which I would say the same thing.

[Elena]

He's a man of science. Like, this man is being like, there's no fucking.

[Ash]

Like, I'm gonna fire both of you.

[Elena]

Like, how could you?

[Ash]

He's like, one of you doesn't even work here, and you're fired. He told the nurse, okay, so if Andre walked up the wall backwards, then he'll do it again. But he was not only unable to repeat the move, he had no memory of what even happened the first time. He told the doctor, I didn't walk up a wall. I can't walk up a wall.

[Elena]

What the fuck?

[Ash]

And when he tried, he was unable to get his foot, like, his footing or balance.

[Elena]

Because, like, who can walk up a. It's one thing to. Like, it would even be shocking if, like, he ran up the wall and onto the ceiling and down. Like, that's an acrobatic move of, like, someone show me how to do that.

[Ash]

Yeah, show me to do Rachel walk.

[Elena]

Backwards slowly up the wall and onto the ceiling, where gravity makes that impossible.

[Ash]

Yep. Like, and he's 9 years old.

[Elena]

That's the thing.

[Ash]

Like, I'm pretty sure I said at the beginning he was nine years old. I'm trying to keep everybody's ages in check. Holy shit. But he's like. He's a. He's a baby.

[Elena]

He's a baby.

[Ash]

I would be like one of the girls, just walking.

[Elena]

Just walking on the ceilings.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, that's.

[Ash]

Just Let me know if they do that anytime.

[Elena]

It's the ceiling that gets me. The fact that he walked all the way up the wall and onto the ceiling and then flipped back down.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like gravity. Hello, my friends.

[Ash]

Yeah. But despite having witnessed the wall walking and generally believing the story of demonic possession, the nurse still admitted that the children's behavior was likely due, at least in part, to mental illness. She was like, something's afoot here. But I also think mental illness is them too mad.

[Elena]

Like, whatever is happening in this house might be literally making them mad.

[Ash]

Absolutely. So that night, Latoya spent the night in the hospital with her youngest son while her mom returned home with the other children. The next day was Andre's birthday, and he's in the hospital, like, going through this. So Rosa and the children came back to the hospital to celebrate. But the celebration was short lived.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

Not long after they gathered in Andre's hospital room, Latoya got a call from Valerie Washington informing her that DCS decided it was in the best interest of the children to temporarily remove them from the home until the situation was resolved and there was a plan for their safety moving forward.

[Elena]

And that's on his birthday.

[Ash]

On his fucking birthday. Which I'm like, you couldn't have done it one fucking day later.

[Elena]

That's the thing. Like, what?

[Ash]

I get it. I know there's a murder. Like, I was involved in DCS as a kid. Like, I get it. But I don't know.

[Elena]

And it's just like. And you can see why they came to that conclusion, because obviously they might. This might not even, like, be against Latoya. You know what I mean? They're saying that home is unsafe.

[Ash]

It's just. Yeah.

[Elena]

It's the same. We watch something happen in that home that we can't explain. They need to be out of that house, and you can't remove them from the house right now. So it's just such a. It's such a sad situation. It is.

[Ash]

And the kids are, like, getting so sick in that house that they can't even go to school. Like, this is affecting.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like, some. Yeah. And Right. But my goodness.

[Ash]

But to be separated as a fan, like, it's just so on your child's birthday, on your young, like, your baby's birthday, and he's in the hospital. He, one, has to spend his birthday in the hospital, and two, he gets moved to, like, a foster home on his birthday.

[Elena]

Latoya must have just been.

[Ash]

Yeah. So latoya later told her reporter it was obvious we were a team and we were beating it. Whatever it was, we made it through together as a team, and they separated us.

[Elena]

Oh, that, like, breaks my heart.

[Ash]

Yeah. She was like that.

[Elena]

Like, really?

[Ash]

That's a mom. That's a mom. That's a single mama right there. Being like, this family is a team.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Makes Me want to cry.

[Elena]

Oh, like, that, like, breaks my heart. It really does. Anything hearing about, like, DCS and foster care and stuff.

[Ash]

And like, it's traumatic.

[Elena]

Families having to be separated. Just like, it's such a sad.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And obviously that has to happen.

[Ash]

It's necessary. Like, like some.

[Elena]

Oh, in many cases, it's the best thing that can happen.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

But, like, when you hear about it, it's never. It's always devastating, no matter what.

[Ash]

It's traumatic.

[Elena]

Well, that's the thing. Even if you were coming from this awful environment, that's still devastating. That one. You had to live that. And now you have to live in the unknown.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

As a kid.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

Who had no fucking business having to deal with that.

[Ash]

I know. I actually, like. Like I just said, I was involved in DCF and luckily I never had to go to foster care because I had like, you and Ma and Papa.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But I think about fostering sometimes just to, like, give back.

[Elena]

Just in just. That's like that. That's like them Hoffers. Them Hoffers. If you didn't hear in the other episode. Yes, I'm on the Hoffer train this year.

[Ash]

I fucking love the Hoffman.

[Elena]

They're just like, they. They're a perfect, shining example of, you know, a lovely foster family.

[Ash]

And it takes, like, just a sidebar here. It takes such a specific human to be able to do that.

[Elena]

Because if you're a foster parent, fucking kudos.

[Ash]

Billions and billions of kudos. Because they will get like a newborn in the middle of the night. And then you bond with that baby. And then sometimes. And you know what they're coming from. And, you know, sometimes you have to give that baby back.

[Elena]

And obviously the. The goal most of the time is to re. For DCF is to reunite goal. Which in my opinion is not. Shouldn't always be the goal, but. Oh, but knowing, right, that knowing as a foster parent that, like, that's the goal, that you may have to, like, you got to be like, what a selfless human being. You have to be to just be like, I want to make this child's life as loving and beautiful as I can for the time I have them.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

But then I'm just going to have to put my own, like, devastation aside and sever that bond to give them back to, like, continue their life.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

Like, fuck. You have to be such a selfless person.

[Ash]

And also.

[Elena]

But then there's assholes who completely use the foster parents and are just in.

[Ash]

It for the money. Like we were talking about a couple Cases ago, they were foster parents. And you're like, hello.

[Elena]

You really go like, the best and the worst.

[Ash]

Yeah. I think I would just end up with 45 million kids because I'd just be like, I'll adopt this one too. Yeah. 18 kids. Let's go.

[Elena]

I couldn't even. I don't even think I could foster an animal. And it's just. And it's because I just will the giving up with all of them. Like, there's no way I couldn't.

[Ash]

No, I know. It's. It's a. It's an angel. Truly.

[Elena]

You're a special kind of person if you do that. I think. Sabrina.

[Ash]

Sabrina. Two girls.

[Elena]

Sabrina just fostered some kittens.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And she's an angel.

[Ash]

She is a fucking angel. Sabrina and Corinne are both angels, Truly. But yeah, sometimes I think about it like I'm. I'm not at a point in my life right now where I would do it. Maybe later, someday in the future, I would think about it. It's beautiful. Beautiful.

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[Ash]

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[Ash]

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[Ash]

But anyways, back to the case. In the formal paperwork, Valerie Washington noted the children's physical or mental condition is seriously impaired and seriously endangered as a result of Latoya's inability to supply education or supervision, which is rough. In simple terms, the amount of school that the children had missed due to the. Everything that was going on was seen as neglect. Unfortunately, that does constitute neglect. And the home environment was not one that was promoting safety.

[Elena]

No, because shit's going down.

[Ash]

But according to Latoya, she could not send the children to school sometimes because the spirits would make them sick or they would be up all night with no sleep, so they couldn't go to school.

[Elena]

That's horrifying.

[Ash]

She's in between a rock and a hard place.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But like I said earlier, this was not the first time that DCS had been involved in the family. In 2009, a caseworker was assigned for the same reason. But at that point, there was no mention of spirits or demons.

[Elena]

It was just the kids not going to school.

[Ash]

Not going to school and not having enough supervision, which also. She's a single mother. I'm sure she's working multiple jobs. Like, it's a tough position to be in, you know? But anyway. About a week after the children had been removed, Valerie Washington conducted a home visit to Latoya's house, accompanied by three police officers, two of whom just joined out of, quote, professional curiosity. Curiosity.

[Elena]

I honestly couldn't blame them on that. Because you're like, what is going on here?

[Ash]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is, like, a smaller town.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You know, so people are hearing this, and they're like, I want to go. So inside, they discovered several makeshift altars around the first floor of the house, as well as several circles of salt, which Latoya explained had been put in place to dissuade the demons, which walking.

[Elena]

Into that would be horrifying.

[Ash]

Absolutely.

[Elena]

And I'm sure these. The officers are like, okay.

[Ash]

Immediately, I'm sure they thought she was mentally ill, like, 100%.

[Elena]

There's, like, some, you know, religious mania going on here.

[Ash]

Yes. Like, that's exactly what they thought was happening.

[Elena]

That's what I would think. So.

[Ash]

The officer officially tasked with accompanying Valerie Washington on the visit was Gary police Captain Charles Austin. He was a veteran police Officer with more than 35 years experience. And he later told a reporter that prior to his involvement in this case, he always believed in ghosts, but he did not believe in demons. But after investigating the case, he changed his mind 100%.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

Among other things, he claimed there were unusual and unidentifiable. Excuse me. Silhouettes in the photos that officers took in the basement that day, which actually led them to believe Latoya's story of demonic possession. And like those who left the house after the family wake, Austin actually believed he was followed home by some sort of entity that day that caused tons of electrical problems in his house for several days.

[Elena]

What the fuck?

[Ash]

This is a policeman with 35 years on the force who didn't believe in anything like this.

[Elena]

My God.

[Ash]

Like, he was like, yeah, I think there's ghosts, but, like, no, there's not demons.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And then he left and he was like, oh, there's demons. And one followed.

[Elena]

Came to my house.

[Ash]

No. Not long after the children were removed from her custody, Latoya was informed that they would remain in the temporary custody of the state until she could prove that she was responsible and stable enough for them. So to her, that meant she would have to rid her house and herself of the demons that was. That were plaguing the family for months. Fortunately, help was actually much easier to find this time around than it had been in previous months. After hearing the story of what happened at the Methodist Hospital, the hospital chaplain, David Neville, reached out to one of his colleagues, Reverend Mike Magino, the pastor at a church in nearby Merrillville. Unlike many of the other clergy in the area, Magino was actually a true believer in demons and did have some knowledge of exorcism.

[Elena]

Oh, we found one.

[Ash]

We found one. We will always find one.

[Elena]

Yeah, you gotta find one.

[Ash]

But he informed Neville that before he could do anything, he would have to speak with the family. And then, if it was warranted, he would have to get permission from the bishop to perform the rite of the exorcism.

[Elena]

That's such an. Interesting that. That interests me so much. Me too. Because I. You. I always thought exorcisms were one of those things where it was like a priest was like, here I come. I'm coming to do an exorcism. And it was just like. Yep.

[Ash]

The fact that there's, like, they have.

[Elena]

To go through special permissions and, like, it's like a. You have to be, like, approved to perform this. Right. And everything. It's very interesting. Yeah.

[Ash]

You have to, like, jump through hoops.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And it's interesting that, like, I feel like a lot of the cases that we cover, the priest is so insistent on getting the bishop's permission. Like, they're like, I'm not around.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Without his permission.

[Elena]

Exactly. And then you have Ed and Lorraine, who are always calling the archdiocese.

[Ash]

It's crazy. Always and always getting permission.

[Elena]

Always getting permission. But then the archdiocese, they forget.

[Ash]

They're like, you know, no. No permission.

[Elena]

They get to quickly get one of those men in black, like, mind eraser.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, we didn't do that.

[Ash]

We didn't do that. Ed and Lorina are like, they don't get it.

[Elena]

They did it. They did it. Don't worry about it.

[Ash]

Totally shut up.

[Elena]

They lie.

[Ash]

So in late April, Magino met with Latoya and Rosa at their new rental apartment in Gary, where they gave him the lowdown on everything that happened in the previous months. Everything they told him was compelling, but he asked for permission to review any additional material, including any law enforcement or hospital footage or documentation, and they agreed to provide it. But it wasn't until he accompanied Latoya and two Gary officers back into the home that his belief in Latoya's case was absolutely cemented. According to the Reverend, when Latoya entered the house for the first time since my interview with her, oil seemed to condense and drip onto the steps from the crosses she made above. It also appeared all over the blinds in her bedroom. Yet when he reviewed the police footage from the walkthrough later that afternoon, there was no traces of oil or any other unexplained phenomena that actually occurred. Like when he was visiting.

[Elena]

What?

[Ash]

Strange. Despite what he believed was compelling evidence of demonic possession, the bishop, Dale Mels. Check, I think, denied his initial request for permission to perform an exorcism. The archbishop said.

[Elena]

Nah, denied.

[Ash]

He did, however, suggest that Maginot. Magino. Excuse me. Contact other priests in the area and ask them for training in the right of a minor ex exorcism.

[Elena]

Oh, I didn't know there was different levels of exercise.

[Ash]

There are, and now I'm so interested. I think it'd be fun to kind of talk about on an episode. Yes. And, like, dive into the different levels.

[Elena]

Because I didn't know all this.

[Ash]

I didn't either. So you can do a minor exorcism, and that does not require the church's approval.

[Elena]

Those are the ones I'm thinking about where they just run on in and perform an exercise loophole.

[Ash]

In the case of a minor exorcism, a clergy member will use prayer and religious symbols and other statements to drive out any negative entities that might be, you know, in the home or space. So after making some phone calls, the reverend did locate a priest who was willing to provide the information necessary. And about a week later, Maginot was back at Latoya's former house. This time to drive out whatever had been tormenting the family. So in addition to himself and Latoya, the exorcism was attended by Virginia Washington.

[Elena]

The caseworker.

[Ash]

The caseworker, and Officer Samantha Ilick, I think it is, from the Gary Police Department, and another unnamed officer. Samantha had been at the previous walk through and was actually somewhat skeptical of Latoya's claims, but was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. She was like, I want to see this.

[Elena]

I want to see this shit.

[Ash]

Because. And she's like, you know, my captain there has become a believer.

[Elena]

Maybe I will.

[Ash]

After leaving the house that afternoon, she said she was fully convinced something evil was in that house.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

She said, we felt like someone was in the room with you. Like someone breathing down your neck.

[Elena]

Oh, I hate that.

[Ash]

Yeah. So as Maginot prayed throughout each room of the house, he instructed Latoya to look up the names of the demons that could possibly be inhabiting the house. But each time she tried to do so, the computer would shut down without explanation.

[Elena]

That's why you need an ancient tome.

[Ash]

Of course.

[Elena]

No. Stop using technology.

[Ash]

Nope. You need ancient tomes.

[Elena]

You need ancient dusty ass tomes.

[Ash]

Has anyone watched Coffee?

[Elena]

You're flipping through.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And it makes that sound.

[Ash]

And you find yourself and you find.

[Elena]

You find the Damon.

[Ash]

It's true.

[Elena]

That's what it is.

[Ash]

But the deeper she dug for the right, the right name, the sicker and more lightheaded she got, making the process so arduous and just completely unpleasant. So finally they discovered the demons inhabiting the home were Beelzebub, the Lord of the flies. Beelzebub. Beelzebub. Thank you. The Lord of the Flies. And quote other high ranking demons, including lieutenants and sergeants that torture and hurt kids.

[Elena]

I didn't know those were things I.

[Ash]

Did not know there were. I also didn't know they had sergeants.

[Elena]

Rankings among the daemons.

[Ash]

It's a whole community.

[Elena]

I had no idea.

[Ash]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Elena]

It's very militaristic.

[Ash]

It is.

[Elena]

I don't like that.

[Ash]

I'm not into it.

[Elena]

The fact that Beelzebub is there like you. Damn.

[Ash]

Don't say it too many times in my house.

[Elena]

Please. You're just like. You got, like the.

[Ash]

You. You got the demon, quite frankly. Palo santo Ing the room after this.

[Elena]

Yeah. As you should.

[Ash]

Yeah. With the windows open.

[Elena]

Palo Santo. Me too. Please, before I leave.

[Ash]

Oh, I will. Whenever we talk about demons, I think we should start palo santo Ing, because I do think some weird energy is building up in the pod lab, and we're in my house right now, and that shit's not welcome.

[Elena]

Yeah, it's not happening. Thank you.

[Ash]

So the prayer and ritual went on for several hours, during which time Latoya was becoming more weak, more exhausting, or more exhausted. Excuse me. She later said, I was hurting all over from the inside out. I'm trying to do my best and be strong. But eventually, she fell asleep, which she said was, quote, the demon's way of lessening the ritual's effect. Like, knocked her out, essentially. Ultimately, Maginot performed a Magino. I don't. I keep going to say, like, making it fancier.

[Elena]

I love it.

[Ash]

Magino performed three exorcisms between May and June, during which time latoya and Rosa actually had moved to Indianapolis, but they drove back to Gary for each ritual. Because I think I. I don't know if she was paying rent on this house and her next house, but she's trying to get her kids back.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You can tell. But finally, at the last exorcism in June, Maginot changed tactics and, quote, berated the demons in Latin rather than English, which he claimed was the key to successfully driving them out. And at hearing the Latin words in scripture, Latoya started to convulse and then went slack and seemed to be asleep. He said a prayer of thanks over her sleeping body. And when she woke up, she and Rosa went back to Indianapolis, where they claim they have not experienced any demonic activity since.

[Elena]

So in Cabin in the woods, when he says, do not read the Latin, he's wrong. Apparently you read the Latin.

[Ash]

I think you can only read the Latin if you know the Latin and what you're saying.

[Elena]

Yeah. You don't want to just read William Nilly Latin.

[Ash]

Never. If we tell you one thing, if you take one thing away from this episode, never read Latin. Willy Nilly.

[Elena]

Yeah. Don't just Willy Nilly.

[Ash]

You got to know about the Latin.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But in November 2012, roughly one year after this whole ordeal began, Latoya did regain custody of all three children, and her entire family started participating in. In home based therapy services.

[Elena]

Good.

[Ash]

According to one report filed with dcs, they, quote, have not experienced any issues with Demonic presences or spirits in the home in Indian and are moving on from that point in their lives.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

The report goes on to say the family continues to attend church regularly on Sunday, but the family is no longer fixated solely on religion to explain or cope with the children's behavior issues.

[Elena]

Whoa.

[Ash]

So I think DCF definitely was like, there's too much.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Reliance on religion going on here to.

[Elena]

A point where it's bordering on religious mania.

[Ash]

Yes, exactly. In 2014, a long form article in the Indianapolis Star about the family's experience generated an unexpectedly large amount of national attention and thrust the family right back into the spotlight. Latoya said, I figured that I'd get an uproar from my hometown, but I never imagined that it would go viral just four days later. Zach Bagans of Ghost Adventures.

[Elena]

Who?

[Ash]

Zack Bagans.

[Elena]

Oh, a man named Zach Bagans.

[Ash]

I don't know if you've heard of him.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

He bought the house from the owner for $35,000 and subsequently made a television documentary about the house, which I will be watching today.

[Elena]

I will be watching that later.

[Ash]

Yep. He referred to it as the next Amityville.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

And I added. But real.

[Elena]

I was just gonna say, I don't know if you want to throw that one on there.

[Ash]

I'm like, don't.

[Elena]

Because you're like, the next hoax. Exactly.

[Ash]

I. I believe in this one a lot more. I definitely, like. I'll be honest. I think there were probably parts of this that got dramatic. How do you say that? Dramatized? Yeah, dramatized. I would say dramaticized.

[Elena]

I feel like that's.

[Ash]

Can you say.

[Elena]

Is that a word, too?

[Advertiser]

Dramaticized.

[Ash]

Dramatized. You decide.

[Elena]

I'll take both.

[Ash]

I think there were parts of this that got both of them that did.

[Elena]

Both of those things. Yeah.

[Ash]

And I'm sure, you know, sometimes the kids were like, oh, I can't go to school.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You know, demons. I think, overall, they did experience a lot of what they said.

[Elena]

There is something very unexplained in this situation.

[Ash]

100%.

[Elena]

There's something that does not. The fact that many people saw a kid walk backwards up a wall and onto the ceiling and then flip over his grandma while holding her hand.

[Ash]

You're just never.

[Elena]

You're never gonna tell me that that wasn't a demon.

[Ash]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[Elena]

So it. There's other things that for sure, you can question.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

And just at least be like, huh. Okay, well.

[Ash]

And then. But this next part, to me, I'm like, huh? Because, like, we all know Zach Bagans has an entire fucking museum filled with the most haunted shit on the planet.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

When this documentary was finished, he had the house demolished. Whoa. Yeah. Just after the release of the documentary in 2016, he told a reporter, something was inside that house that had the ability to do things that I have never seen before. Things that others carrying the highest forms of credibility couldn't explain either. There was something there that was very dark, yet highly intelligent and powerful.

[Elena]

Whoa.

[Ash]

So Zach Bagans was like, I don't want to fuck with that. We're demolishing that house.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

The man who will take, like, every haunted thing into his museum, to me was like.

[Elena]

Was like, let's get rid of this.

[Ash]

That's like, I have chills on my legs.

[Elena]

Like, to not be like, we're going to save this house, and, like, continue investigating. He was like, nope, nope. We should just get rid of it.

[Ash]

Completely got rid of it. So interesting. And several years later, latoya's story was adapted into the Deliverance.

[Elena]

This year.

[Ash]

Yeah, this year. Isn't that. For some reason, I thought that movie had been out for way longer.

[Elena]

You're probably thinking of Deliverance.

[Ash]

I was. That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Elena]

Definitely different.

[Ash]

Netflix released it, and it was directed by Lee Daniels, and it stars Andra Day and Queen Glenn Close.

[Elena]

Oh. In Glen.

[Ash]

I've never actually seen the movie.

[Elena]

I haven't seen the movie.

[Ash]

I've seen, like, stills of, like, Nana Glenn there.

[Elena]

Nana Glenn.

[Ash]

I want to watch it, and I want to watch the. The documentary.

[Elena]

I'm dying to watch the documentary. Yeah. Because nothing is more fun than watching Zach.

[Ash]

Zach Biggins is such a character. Or.

[Elena]

Or a taps. I love a. I love a. Ghost hunting.

[Ash]

Yes, yes. Ghost.

[Elena]

Ghost adventures and Ghost Hunters.

[Ash]

Ghost hunters. I prefer ghost hunters, personally.

[Elena]

Yeah, me too. But there's something to be said about all of them.

[Ash]

Isn't this an interesting case, though?

[Elena]

That was a very interesting case.

[Ash]

Like, i90. I would say i98, believe most of what happened there.

[Elena]

It's funny because we went from, like, a straight up hoax. We went from, like, to straight up shenanigans, nonsense. And then we went to the House of Flying Objects, where you could be like, all right, I think there's a little bit of something happening here, but who knows what?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Is it, you know, the kid going through it and there's, like, this energy that's building it. What's going on?

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

But you think there's, like, a little bit of each. And then you go to this one and you Go. A kid walked up a wall and onto the ceiling and flipped over his grandma in front of a whole fucking room of people.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

That's a different scenario.

[Ash]

DC DCF caseworkers were writing things in their report where they were like, yeah, some part. Some parts are inexplicable.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Nurses were like, yeah, we didn't even.

[Elena]

Mean to do that either. Like, put them in that order. I know that they, like, went into, like, nonsense. No.

[Ash]

Maybe Real kind of thing. It was a nice way to top off Spooky Season.

[Advertiser]

I don't know if this is the.

[Ash]

Last Spooky Season episode or not.

[Elena]

I have no idea.

[Ash]

We have an. We have a fun guest coming up. It's a little bit spooky. Yeah. But he's also just like, a fun guest.

[Elena]

Yeah. He's just a wonderful human being.

[Ash]

Yeah. We're gonna be recording that tomorrow, so it might be the next episode after this.

[Elena]

Yeah. And then we have our fun Halloween episode. Oh.

[Ash]

Actually coming out the episode after this.

[Elena]

There you go.

[Ash]

So I don't really know, to be honest, but you know what?

[Elena]

Halloween. Oh, the episode is fun.

[Ash]

I'm so excited.

[Elena]

You're gonna, you know, you're gonna get a little nifty gifty along with it, so look out for that.

[Ash]

Yeah. And fun subsequent gifts to come. Yeah.

[Elena]

Because we're. We are excited about this one thing.

[Ash]

Not really gifts.

[Elena]

Yeah. I shouldn't say gift. Like, you're not going to hold a gift in your hand. No.

[Ash]

A fun. A fun thing that we never do.

[Elena]

Yeah, Exactly.

[Ash]

But we might do more of soon.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So, yeah, look forward to that. And we hope you keep listening.

[Elena]

And we hope you keep it.

[Ash]

We're not so weird that you walk up a wall backwards and flip over your camera after your grandma after walking on the ceiling.

[Elena]

My grandma.

[Ash]

My grandma.

[Advertiser]

If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at.

[D]

Wondery.Com/Survey hotshot Australian attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own.

[Ash]

She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all.

[D]

I'm Marcia Clark, host of the new podcast Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice, as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list.

[Elena]

She was addicted to the game she had created.

[Ash]

She just didn't know how to stop.

[D]

Now, through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informants Lawyer X Exclusively on Wondry plus. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify and listen to more. Exhibit C True Crime Shows early and ad free right now.