Episode 615: Vampire Talk with Doug Jones

Summary

Morbid Network | Wondery Episode 615: Vampire Talk with Doug Jones Release Date: November 4, 2024

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Introduction to Doug Jones

Hosts Ash and Elena welcomed the esteemed guest, Doug Jones, to this special episode of Morbid. Celebrated for his iconic roles in films such as Pan's Labyrinth, The Shape of Water, and Hocus Pocus, Doug is affectionately dubbed "the nicest monster in Hollywood." The hosts expressed their admiration, noting that Doug's friendly demeanor made scheduling the episode twice a challenge due to his accommodating nature.

Elena [02:51]: "Doug Jones is an absolute icon, to be perfectly honest. And also, we can also say that he is the nicest monster in Hollywood because 100%, we have had to reschedule this pod twice because of just various shenanigans that occurred."

Doug Jones’ Journey in Hollywood

Doug humbly discussed his extensive career, attributing his success not to his own prowess but to the supportive network of creature effects makeup artists who propelled his career forward. He reminisced about his early days in Hollywood, highlighting his versatility and unique physical abilities, such as being a contortionist and a mime.

Doug Jones [04:22]: "My career has happened because of the graciousness and kindness of the creature effects makeup people. Honestly, if it wasn't for their referrals early on that propelled me to the next project and the next one and the next one..."

He shared amusing anecdotes about his first commercial roles, including a dancing mummy for Southwest Airlines and a talking alien doll commercial for A World of Wonder Toys. These experiences cemented his reputation for reliability and adaptability in the industry.

Collaborating with Guillermo del Toro

A significant portion of the conversation delved into Doug's collaboration with renowned director Guillermo del Toro. Doug lauded del Toro's visionary approach and his ability to connect with actors on a personal level, fostering an environment where creativity thrives.

Doug Jones [10:08]: "They say don't meet your heroes, but he is one you would absolutely love to meet because he will live up to all of your dreams and expectations of who he is."

Doug recounted specific instances from Hellboy 2: The Golden Army, illustrating del Toro's unique directing style that blends humor with meticulous attention to detail.

Portraying Baron Alphinas on What We Do in the Shadows

Doug expressed immense love for his role as Baron Alphinas on the final season of What We Do in the Shadows. He touched upon the emotional aspect of bidding farewell to a character that brought him joy amidst a demanding career.

Doug Jones [13:05]: "Playing Baron FNS has been the joy of my life after this 38-year career of mine that I have behind me, with more coming ahead, of course."

He highlighted the duality of his character, blending humor with classic vampire tropes, and how the show managed to satirize and pay homage to traditional vampire lore.

The Making of Nosferatu: A Symphony of Horror

One of the episode's focal points was Doug's role in the upcoming film, Nosferatu: A Symphony of Horror. He provided an in-depth look into the film's creation, emphasizing its unique approach to remaking the classic silent film Nosferatu.

Film Creation and Aesthetic Choices

Doug explained the challenges and artistic decisions involved in integrating black-and-white cinematography with modern filmmaking techniques. The use of green screen technology allowed for a seamless blend of the original film's environment with contemporary visuals.

Doug Jones [22:24]: "David Lee Fisher, our director, is a technical wizard who made this all magic happen."

He detailed the meticulous process of matching movements and scenes from the original Nosferatu with the new footage, creating an ethereal and dreamlike quality that honors the source material while introducing fresh dialogue and soundscapes.

Character Development and Performance

Delving into his portrayal of Count Orlok, Doug shared his approach to balancing the character's menacing presence with underlying humanity. He discussed the physical demands of the role, including extensive prosthetics and makeup designed by Mike Elizalde of Spectral Motion.

Doug Jones [35:30]: "Mike Elizalde, a very talented artist who owns the creature shop Spectral Motion, did this."

Doug recounted the serendipitous nature of his casting, stemming from a decade-old project that prefigured Nosferatu, and how his long-cherished dream role finally materialized.

Doug Jones [35:57]: "David Lee Fisher calls me up one day and says, hey, if you don't want to do this, I won't do it. But I have this idea. Would you want to ever do Nosferatu like we did Caligari? And I was like, you have been reading my dreams."

Exploring Vampire Legends: The Tale of Conscious

Transitioning from his professional experiences, Doug entertained the hosts with a unique vampire folklore story titled "Conscious". This narrative from Polish folklore recounts the tragic tale of Johannes Conscious, an alderman who allegedly sold his son to the devil, leading to his vengeful ghostly manifestations.

Narrative Highlights

• Conscious’s Downfall: The story begins with Conscious enduring a life filled with sin, culminating in his unconscious state after an accident. His confession of making a deal with the devil sets the stage for his post-mortem haunting.

  Doug Jones [37:27]: "Conscious’s body was perfectly preserved. But it had to stink, though."

• Supernatural Acts: Post-death, Conscious engages in an array of malevolent activities—vomiting fire, turning milk into blood, and unsettling the town's residents with his foul odor and aggressive hauntings.

  Doug Jones [42:42]: "He was very smelly. Do you know that every year over 1 million Americans are diagnosed with diabetes?"

• Resolution: The townspeople's futile attempts to contain him by burying him properly lead to more chaos until they ultimately destroy his body, ending his reign of terror.

Audience Engagement: Character Games

In a lighthearted segment, Doug participated in a game where he was asked to compare fictional characters:

1. Who Would Win the Hunger Games?

   • Doug's Choice: Baron Alphinas, citing his supernatural abilities and strategic prowess.

2. Who Would Successfully Take Over the World?

   • Doug's Choice: Nosferatu, due to his stealthy and manipulative nature.

3. Who Would Have the Biggest TikTok Following?

   • Doug's Choice: Billy Butcherson, leveraging never-seen-before dance moves to captivate audiences.

Doug Jones [51:19]: "Billy would win because a scene that you did not, that you never saw from Hocus Pocus... I did the..."

Upcoming Projects and Final Thoughts

Doug enthusiastically shared insights into his upcoming roles, highlighting:

• Nosferatu: A Symphony of Horror: Premiering on October 18th on Apple TV, offering a modern take on the classic tale with added dialogue and a haunting visual style.

• Final Season of What We Do in the Shadows: Scheduled to start on October 21st, where Baron Alphinas will reprise his role in a few episodes.

• Hocus Pocus 1 and 2 Features: Billy Butcherson will be featured as part of a double feature on Freeform, with nostalgic scenes teased.

• Indie Projects: Including a zany comedy, Operation Taco Gary's, and a role in the show Blue Ridge.

Doug Jones [55:57]: "I'm loving this phase. And one of them is a funny movie called Operation Taco Gary's obsessed zany comedy..."

He also expressed gratitude towards the hosts and affirmed his passion for his craft, leaving listeners excited for his future endeavors.

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Conclusion

This episode of Morbid offered an intimate glimpse into Doug Jones' illustrious career, his collaborative experiences with visionary directors like Guillermo del Toro, and his dedication to bringing complex characters like Baron Alphinas and Count Orlok to life. The storytelling segment enriched the discussion by delving into vampire folklore, showcasing Doug's versatility and depth as an actor. Engaging and insightful, this episode is a must-listen for true crime enthusiasts and fans of Doug Jones alike.

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Notable Quotes:

• Elena [02:51]: "Doug Jones is an absolute icon... the nicest monster in Hollywood."
• Doug Jones [10:08]: "Guillermo del Toro is one of the most visionary, brilliant artists in the world."
• Doug Jones [35:57]: "David Lee Fisher calls me up... you have been reading my dreams."
• Doug Jones [51:19]: "Billy would win because... I did the..."

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Timestamp Highlights:

• 02:27 - 04:04: Introduction and welcome of Doug Jones.
• 04:22 - 07:35: Doug’s early career and first commercial roles.
• 10:08 - 12:27: Working with Guillermo del Toro.
• 13:05 - 17:07: Final season of What We Do in the Shadows and emotional reflections.
• 17:07 - 29:44: In-depth discussion on Nosferatu: A Symphony of Horror.
• 29:44 - 43:25: Storytelling segment on the vampire folklore of Conscious.
• 43:25 - 55:00: Upcoming projects and audience engagement games.
• 55:00 - 59:46: Closing remarks and final thoughts.

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Listening Information:

To listen to Episode 615: Vampire Talk with Doug Jones, subscribe to Morbid on the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or other major podcast platforms. Join Wondery Plus for early access and an ad-free experience.

Transcript

[Ash]

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[Elena]

And I'm Elena.

[Doug Jones]

And I'm Doug Jones.

[Ash]

And we have a very special episode of Morb. Woo.

[Elena]

Doug Jones is here, guys. Whoa, weirdos.

[Ash]

We.

[Elena]

I mean, Doug Jones is an absolute icon, to be perfectly honest. And also, we can. We can also say that he is the nicest monster in Hollywood because 100%, we have had to reschedule this pod twice because of just various shenanigans that occurred. Nicest man ever. Like, truly, if it was gonna happen with everyone, anyone. I'm glad it happened with Doug. So thank you for being so patient with us.

[Doug Jones]

Oh, and you. Me. I love you guys.

[Elena]

No, we love you. We love you. So Doug has breathed life into roles like the Faun and the Pale man and Pan's Labyrinth. Those are two of my favorites. Like, all time favorites.

[Ash]

So good.

[Elena]

The amphibian man in the Academy Award winning film the Shape of Water. His resume includes the roles of Billy Butchers, iconic from Hocus Pocus, Baron Alphinas on what we do in the Shadows, as well as the titular role in David Lee Fisher's upcoming film Nosferatu, a symphony of horror. And we are just so excited to have him on the pod today. So, again, thank you so much for joining us.

[Doug Jones]

Oh, thank you. And I can't live up to that introduction. I think we're done here.

[Elena]

You already have. You've already.

[Doug Jones]

Thank you.

[Elena]

So, like we just said, your resume is mighty, like, one of the mightiest. We have to ask, how are you able to do all that, to be all that, to personify all that and still keep your feet on the ground and truly be the nicest monster in Hollywood?

[Doug Jones]

Oh, well, thank you for thinking of me in that manner. I don't deserve it. I love you for that. You do? I. You know, it's funny. My resume is long not because I'm really that good, it's just because I'm that old. I've been around a while, you know, so I. I've been. I. My career has happened because of the graciousness and kindness of the creature effects makeup people. Honestly, if it wasn't for their referrals early on that propelled me to the next project and the next one and the next one. I never would have met the, you know, the wonderful Rolodex of directors I have now worked with, including the ever great Guillermo del Toro. It's because of. Of those early days being, you know, when you come to Hollywood land and you're a tall, skinny, goofy actor boy. Six three, 135 pounds. And you have a background as a mime. And you can also put your legs behind your head so your resume says contortionist on it.

[Ash]

There you go.

[Doug Jones]

So that was like my, my first commercial agent's dream. It's like, okay, we can do so much with this. So, yeah, so they, they submitted me for all kinds of things that were physical tomfoolery and clowning and miming, of course. And a lot of those roles that came with that kind of breakdown also came with a look that needed to be glued on to me. So those early commercials that I did, the very first commercial I ever did was for Southwest Airlines as a dancing mummy.

[Ash]

I love it.

[Doug Jones]

Right. How that worked into an airline, I'll never remember. But. But I think the fares had dropped low enough that I could finally come out of my sarcophagus and go on vacation. I think that's how it worked. And then shortly after that, I booked a commercial for A World of Wonder Toys for a doll commercial. And I was in Alien standing in a kid's backyard. And I thought I was making first contact because the doll was left out. And it was a talking doll. But, you know, you push it on the belly, it's like, that tickles. Whatever. So it was like a funny little, oh, we're first contact. But it was, yeah, that creature effects makeup designer that made those alien outfits for that commercial then also was doing the moon head for the Mac tonight campaign for McDonald's.

[Elena]

I remember those so vividly.

[Doug Jones]

Right. Set to the theme song taken from Mac the Knife, but rebranded for McDonald's as Mac Tonight. It's Mac Tonight. Hey. Yeah. So I ended up booking that job as the crescent moon head guy under this huge heavy mask also created by Steve Neal. So I was already getting a taste of, ah, the creature effects world is tight and almost incestuous. And you know, and they like, they're very loyal, so if they like working with you. So the reputation got around town that I'm tall, skinny, move well and don't complain when there's a lot of stuff on me.

[Elena]

You're lovely to work with.

[Doug Jones]

So I guess that's the reputation that got around the creature effects. So. So the referrals happened and snowballed from there. And here we are 38 years later, and with a resume that I never foresaw, I never sought. Like, I want to be monsters. I really wanted to be a sitcom star when I started. I wanted to be like a goofy next door neighbor that comes you like on the dick Van Dyke Show.

[Elena]

Oh, I love that.

[Doug Jones]

Or being Kramer on the Seinfeld. The guy who comes in and does something funny and leaves. I had very low aspirations for myself.

[Ash]

You surpassed all of them very much.

[Doug Jones]

Thank you. So getting swept up by the creature effects world was a surprise to me, but a happy one that has turned into a career that has been very, very good to me. And when you mentioned the likes of Guillermo del Toro, when you are standing on the stage at the Academy Awards because a movie you were in called the Shape of Water just won Best Picture, and you're there with the entire team accepting the award for Best Picture, and it's an Academy Best Picture with a monster on the COVID This doesn't happen.

[Ash]

Yeah, it really does.

[Doug Jones]

And you happen to be the guy who played that monster. It's surreal moment. You can imagine.

[Elena]

I was going to say, how does your brain wrap around that? Like, just being on the Academy Awards stage must be like, what?

[Ash]

Well, you're looking at.

[Doug Jones]

You're looking out a sea of the most famous faces you've ever seen in your life, and they're all looking back at you with adoration in their eyes. It's like this. This moment doesn't happen to just anybody. It doesn't. You know, that's a.

[Ash]

That's a pinch me moment for sure.

[Doug Jones]

Totally. Totally.

[Elena]

I believe the aliens should abduct me now. This is insane.

[Doug Jones]

Right? That's a good time to die. Happy, right?

[Elena]

Truly you're like, I'm good. And it's funny that you brought up the Mac Tonight character one. I vividly remember those commercials. So that's so funny. But also, our researcher for Morbid, our friend Dave, his father, Jim White, actually directed a lot of those commercials. So we had, like, this weird one degree of separation.

[Doug Jones]

Isn't that. Not the chances.

[Elena]

Isn't that weird?

[Doug Jones]

Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, it's.

[Elena]

And I remember us talking about this, like, a long time ago when he brought up, like, oh, my dad directed those things. We're like, oh, my God, I used to love those commercials. And then we found out you were Mac Tonight. We were like, what?

[Doug Jones]

Well, if you can get a message back to him that I love him dearly to this day.

[Elena]

Oh, of course.

[Ash]

We definitely will.

[Elena]

I love that.

[Doug Jones]

Thank you. Aw.

[Elena]

And we spoke about Guillermo del Toro, and I have to ask, because I'm a huge Guillermo del Toro fan. I think he is so brilliant. And he seems like just one of. He's one of those people that. He seems like one of the sweetest, kindest just like genuine person. What is it? Is he that person? What is it like to work with him?

[Doug Jones]

They say don't meet your heroes, but he is one you would absolutely love to meet because he will live up to all of your dreams and expectations of who he is.

[Elena]

I love that.

[Doug Jones]

You can imagine how often I get asked, what's it like to work with Cameron latoya? You gotta tell me that. Cause you're not alone in that love for him. I hear such love for him everywhere I go. And when you work with him, you are, you're doing two things. You are under the tutelage of one of the most visionary, brilliant artists in the world ever. You're also hanging out with like a funny friend who is the self effacing, hilarious and sassy as can be. So he's right.

[Elena]

I love that he's sassy.

[Doug Jones]

Oh no, he's got the best sense of humor. And in fact, he's a director that understands his actors better than any director normally does. He, he directs all of us on the same project in different ways depending on our personality and what we'll respond to because he's already sussed all that out. Wow, that's. He's. He's brilliant with, with the human spirit and the, and psychology and all of it. So with, with the set of buttons on us that he now knows what to push to get what reaction out of us on the day he'll direct. Like, you know, so from the Hellboy movies, Ron Perlman, Selma Blair and Doug Jones, very different personalities. So we all different types of direction from him.

[Elena]

Oh, that's like brilliant.

[Doug Jones]

Now with me it's very simple. He knows if he can make me laugh, I'll do whatever, whatever he says. So one of my favorite examples was from Hellboy 2, the Golden Army. There was one long tracking shot that he wasn't going to cut away to anything. He had no coverage to cut away to. So I had to, I had to do a lot of physical business while this one camera circled me. And I had to be done with the business by the time the camera stopped. Well, I wasn't the first take of this. It's like I was going slow and methodical and like milking these moments visually. And by the time the camera stopped and it just stayed there for a while and I wasn't done yet. Finally, Guillermo del Toro, he finally he yells, cut. Doggy, you're boring me to tears. Right? And that's all he had to say. I was like, got it, got it.

[Ash]

I'll Go in a different direction.

[Doug Jones]

Take two worked. And yeah. Yeah. I just. I love him dearly. We do have a shorthand like that.

[Elena]

Oh, I love that. That makes me so happy. Because it truly is one of those things that you hear that all the time. Don't meet your heroes. And I'm like, not Guillermo.

[Ash]

You can meet Guillermo. There you go.

[Elena]

Meet Guillermo.

[Doug Jones]

Guillermo.

[Elena]

Guillermo. I love it. But so one of the big things that's happening right now is that we are in the final season of what we do. In the Shadows.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Which bittersweet. Right. It starts on the 21st. And you obviously play Baron Alphinas. Amazing character. So good. You are like, thank you so much. Has it been emotional to say goodbye to that character in this show?

[Doug Jones]

Yes. By the way, the Baron loves you very much too, my darling.

[Ash]

Don't worry about it.

[Elena]

Amazing.

[Doug Jones]

Playing Baron FNS has been the joy of my life after this 38 year career of mine that I have behind me, with more coming ahead, of course. But looking back, it's like I. I haven't. I've looked forward to going to work a very handful of times over all of the jobs that I've done, because I know that a lot of them are very physically taxing and I know it's ahead of me and I'm going to have to go through the process. And the thing. And the thing. Right. Or I have a ton of, like, science fiction dialogue that I have to blurt out in a monologue with techno talk in it. And I love them, but dread them at the same time if you. If that makes any sense.

[Ash]

Yeah, definitely.

[Doug Jones]

What we do in the shadows. Oh, my gosh. I look forward to it with, like, I can't wait to get there. You know, I love that because when you're doing something that's all for the funny and you are taking vampire tropes and sending them up and like, you know, and just like mocking all of it. The best. You know, in this age of comedy that we're in now, everyone's being so careful to not offend. Well, our show does nothing but offend.

[Elena]

Everybody, you know, and that's what makes it great.

[Doug Jones]

And it's got an old school vibe to it because of that. Right.

[Elena]

We love an equal opportunity to offend her.

[Doug Jones]

Absolutely. Let's. Let's just make fun of everybody and we're all across the board. Yeah.

[Ash]

So then nobody's left out and everybody can be offended together. Exactly.

[Doug Jones]

Right.

[Ash]

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[Doug Jones]

And what the. What the Baron has also afforded me was, you know, when I. I've always had a love of vampires, They've always intrigued me, and I've wanted to play, you know, a classic vampire. So years ago, if you had asked me what's my dream role, it would have been what we're going to talk about next. We've Ignosferatu. Right. Of course. You know, the dark mystery of him and the horrific look of him.

[Elena]

Yes.

[Doug Jones]

Well, when I was offered the role as Baron Athanas and what we do in the shadows, he kind of was a parody of Nosferatu. In a way. He's the vampire that comes from the old world, and he sent all of his minions out to North America to conquer the new world, and they never made it out of Staten Island. So he kind of stays there with them now. Like, whatever. Right?

[Elena]

We'll just do that.

[Doug Jones]

No, I just. I love the. That now that I've done the Nosferatu, a symphony of horror movie, and what we do in the shadows, I've had both the light and the dark of this type of vampire character.

[Elena]

That's my favorite part, is that you've touched both sides of the spectrum on.

[Ash]

The vampire scale, and so perfectly, so good.

[Doug Jones]

It's so cute.

[Elena]

And speaking of, like, just. I was just thinking about, like, how you were saying, like, some days you would be like, oh, God, I have to go in and, like, you know, I'd have to, like, spew out all this dialogue. That's crazy. Or I have to go in the makeup chair. Do you do anything specific? Because I know you probably had to sit in that makeup chair for a lot of these roles for a long time. Do you have to do anything specific to, like, get yourself in a vibe to be able to do that?

[Doug Jones]

Well, here's the weird thing about me is that I don't need to do anything specific. Unlike most people, I don't get antsy. I don't get stir crazy. I can sit still and stare at a wall for hours and be completely entertained.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

What is that like?

[Doug Jones]

I know. That's amazing, because that's the number one question I get from people is, like, I would go crazy if I just sit still for that long. And it's like, nope. That's the easy part of my day. The makeup artists are doing all the work during that time, and I get to just kind of sit there and go over my dialogue if I need to, or we listen to music or we tell jokes or whatever. Right. It's a great time of day, but it's when now that it's on and you have extra heat weight stickiness to your person and you have to perform in it all day and keep your energy up while wearing extra layers of stuff and trying to not stick to your chair when you're taking a break or whatever it is. That's the long part of the day for me.

[Elena]

I can imagine. Because that would destroy me. I'm so heat sensitive that I feel like as soon as I started sweating, I'd be like, get it off.

[Doug Jones]

I know. I delineate between suits and makeups. A monster suit would be something that you slip into, zip up the back, right? And it might involve a head that's. That slips over your head, snaps down to the neck. And then there's mechanics that are puppeteered in the face, Right? That's a suit makeup would be either glued or painted onto my real person. So when you're in a suit, there's nothing quite like that feeling of now. It goes on much faster. You're maybe 30 minutes into the whole thing and you're ready to perform. But once it's on, it is. They're usually very heavy and very hot. And you feel that trickle of sweat going down the back of your neck and you can't get to it, or you feel that trickle of sweat coming down the side of your face. Is it going to hit my eye? I don't know. Is it going to go, ah, it's on the cheekbone now.

[Elena]

I guess in my mouth now.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah. Because salty sweat in the eye, you don't want to do that while you're on camera.

[Ash]

Not great, not ideal.

[Elena]

I give you credit. Truly great.

[Ash]

I think the heaviest thing I've ever worn is my wedding dress. And at the end of the night, I was like, get this off of me.

[Doug Jones]

I was like, seriously, people who just wear wigs on camera, it's an itchy mess and they want them off. I totally get it.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah.

[Elena]

Wearing a wig for Halloween, I'm like, why did I choose to do this? It's awful.

[Ash]

You end up ripping it off at the end of the night, like, ah, right, right, right. Well, going back to our love of vampires, your love and our love. We are so excited, like, completely stoked for the premiere of David Lee Fisher's Nosferatu, a symphony of horror that is premiering on October 18th on Apple TV. Plus, so everybody go check it out. But this is a very different approach to remaking a classic film. It's shot in black and white. It's so hauntingly beautiful. We got to get a little sneak peek. Thank you for the screener.

[Elena]

It is delicious looking.

[Ash]

It's beautiful. So can you tell us a little bit? Do you know anything about like how they really created the film?

[Doug Jones]

Yeah, yeah. Thank you for setting that up so beautifully, by the way, because it's a very confusing time for the title Nosferatu, because there is another one right on our tail coming out. Christmas. Directed by the wonderful Robert Eggers and starring the brilliant Bill Skarsgard in the same role I'm playing. Now. He might be younger, hotter and more famous than me, but I think we can have both, can't we?

[Ash]

Absolutely. We all watch.

[Elena]

We do.

[Doug Jones]

And I'm going to watch theirs with every bit of glee as I'm watching on my own. The ours, though, what makes ours a little bit different is it seemed foreseen the same movie as the silent film that made it a classic in the first place. So I got to get into not only Max Schreck's role, but I also was in his environment, digitally reproduced from the original film.

[Elena]

That's so cool.

[Doug Jones]

David Lee Fisher, our director, is a technical wizard who made this all magic happen. So it might be something as much as when I was out, let's say when Nosferatu is outside walking around with his coffin under one arm. That would be a complete hunt. 100% green screen set with marks on the floor to match exactly where I needed to turn, stop, walk up steps, whatever. Right. That we would match then. And with the laid in frame from the old movie, then the least amount of green screen used might be Ellen's bedroom. When I finally get into her and I'm finally, you know, reaching the pinnacle, the object of my desire, she's the. She's the dessert of all the meals I've had over my vampire years. Well, her bedroom scene was walls built, furniture in the room. And the window though was green behind it so that they could put in the original movie window behind that.

[Ash]

That's amazing.

[Doug Jones]

There's a green screen element to every scene of the movie. Yeah. And so that does bring old and new together with a very ethereal kind of dreamlike feel to it.

[Ash]

Right.

[Doug Jones]

But also ours. That's why we filmed ours in black and white so that we could match the old movie more seamlessly. And also with dialogue and sound that fleshes that silent film story. It is seen for seeing the same story, but now with dialogue, you get to hear more of it.

[Ash]

Yeah, right, right.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And it really does have that ethereal quality to it. It's like, it's almost like. I don't even know if this is the right word. It feels like gauzy. Yeah. When you watch it, like, it's this, like, pretty vague word that is, you know, like. I don't know why. It just feels gauzy. I love it.

[Ash]

She's a novelist. It makes sense.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Yeah.

[Ash]

Well, you mentioned before that you. This is a role you hoped you would play someday. So how was it playing this role? Was it completely surreal?

[Doug Jones]

Yes, yes, yes. He had been my bucket list character for many years, and I think I always had a love and fascination with vampires anyway. And of course, I loved Bela Lugosi as Dracula and of course, all the other Draculas over the years that have been played by various wonderful actors. But there's a certain sexiness about Dracula that I thought, I don't know that Doug Jones can pull that off.

[Ash]

I think you can. You totally can.

[Doug Jones]

Well, bless you. Bless you for. But then there's also the teenager, sparkly ones from that other franchise that I'm like, I'm never going to fit that demographic.

[Ash]

So that's okay.

[Elena]

That's totally fine.

[Doug Jones]

Right. So. But the buck tooth, pointy eared, scraggly one. Yes, Him, I get. Yeah, yeah. So that's why no stratua. But what I also love about his hideous look is that he's probably not aware that he looks that bad. Now. He was a. He's a count. Right. So he was. He's of nobility. In his younger day, when he was a human, he probably was quite fetching, you know.

[Ash]

Right.

[Doug Jones]

And he. Right. And he probably was respected by the community and all kinds. And who knows what story got him, what decisions he made, what. What position he put himself into. Become a vampire. And now decades, you know, millennial, you know, centuries later, who knows how old he is? He's living with his choice, Right?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Doug Jones]

And is he. Is he ever satisfied? Is this a satisfying lifestyle for him? So that's why what I loved about him was his, was his yearning for Ellen, the character that, that I'm after in the movie, by the way. Ellen was played by Sarah Carter. Sarah Carter and I starred together as series regulars on falling skies about 10 years ago. And it's because of that relationship that I said, hey, Sarah, would you be a deer? And she's like, oh, my gosh, I love this. So that's how we got her into the movie.

[Elena]

She's like.

[Doug Jones]

Is she not a movie star?

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Elena]

Ridiculous.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah, ridiculous, right? Incredible from every angle. I know, I know, I know, I know. I told her truly. And so her husband in the movie, young Thomas, was played by Emery Cooper. He's a series regular on Coronation street. Now. It's a very British. He's from Great Britain, so that his accent was legit. So he's sent on this journey by his real estate boss, who goes crazy, by the way, his real estate boss was. Was of a character knocked, played by an actor named Edgar Allan Poe. Do you believe that? I know.

[Ash]

Desperation.

[Elena]

Should I know that name?

[Doug Jones]

Yeah. I don't know what from. Yeah. But. Yeah. So Knox sends young Thomas on this journey to fetch me in Transylvania because I'm. I'm interested in buying a piece of property in their hometown right across the street from them. Because something about me, I. You know, Ellen has been calling to me from afar, and I haven't really, you know, known who she is yet or what she is, but I know that I need her. He comes to me to sign paperwork for this real estate deal, and while he's with me, he's getting creeped out by all that I am, what I look like. And I love those scenes when we're at the dinner table and he's eating food and I'm not and I'm just kind of staring at him or, you.

[Elena]

Know, I love that so much.

[Ash]

So fun, right?

[Doug Jones]

There was so much dialogue happening in those quiet, silent moments where he's very uncomfortable and I'm very comfortable.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Doug Jones]

And one of my favorite moments, too, was I'm about to sign the paperwork, and I pause for a minute and say, do you have the time? And he hands me his pocket watch in which was a photograph of Ellen, his wife. And that was like, dun, dun, dun. That was the moment that Count Orlok realizes that's the object of my desire. That's who I've been dreaming of. That's who I've been wanting all this time. So he rushes and signs the paperwork, and now it's a done deal. So what I love, too, about this story is that once he gets to the town and takes residency across the street from Ellen and Thomas, he doesn't go right for her right away. He peers at her through the window like a creep.

[Elena]

Of course.

[Doug Jones]

And other people in town are dying all around them. They think there's an epidemic that's, you know, wiping. There's some kind of a virus wiping out the city. So he saves her for dessert, right? And by the time he gets to her, this Is this is the ultimate. This is what? Right. The moment his. His whole life as a vampire has been leading to this moment.

[Elena]

It's his magnum opus.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah, right. And I love that David Lee Fisher left the camera on me for a long time while I am on her neck. Yes. It's very sensual and very disgusting all at the same time.

[Ash]

It's beautifully horrific.

[Doug Jones]

Beautifully horrific. Great way.

[Elena]

Great way to say it.

[Doug Jones]

So when then when he comes to and realizes that the sun is up and he's. It's coming through the window, he's like, he kind of open overdid it. He over overindulged in his addiction. I think that's when he had his come to light moment. I wanted to add some humanity into him because watching the silent film, of course, it's very dramatic and, you know, and Max Shrek struck that pose when he got in front of the window with a hand on the heart and a hand toward the window like, no, not the sun. Right. So I wanted to strike that iconic pose as I tried to strike a lot of his iconic poses throughout the film, but give some backstory meaning and some heart and soul of why he got into that pose.

[Elena]

Oh, I love that.

[Ash]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This month is all about gratitude. So I want to shout out the people in this room, Elena and Mikey, and from afar, Dave, because without the four of us, this show just wouldn't exist. And I love the four of us, but guess what? There's another person we don't get to thank enough ourselves. I just thanked me. But, you know, it's sometimes hard to remind. Remind ourselves that we're trying our best to make sense of everything in this crazy world. And because we're in this crazy world, it's not always that easy. So here's a reminder to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. I think one of the best things you can do to show gratitude towards yourself is dedicate an hour of your week to therapy just to talk through all the stuff you got going on. Everybody's got so much stuff going on, so talk it through with a therapist. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. And all you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist. And guess what? You can switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.commorbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H E L P.commorbid listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, and new ways of thinking. Find the genres you love and discover new ones along the way. Explore bestsellers, new releases, plus thousands of included audiobooks and originals that members can listen to all they want with more added all the time. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your daily routine without even needing to set aside any extra time. There's more to imagine when you listen. I had a baking day the other day and I said, what would make this baking day better? Oh, I know. The Audible version of Slew Foot because that narrator's voice is literally the calming est voice in the world. And I finished it and I could cry that it's over because I loved listening to that title so much. You guys will love it too. And guess what? As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.commorbid or text morbid to 500. 500. That's audible.commorbid or Text morbid to 500. 500 to try audible free for 30 days. Audible.commorbid.

[Doug Jones]

So this moment in the bedroom, I'm thinking, wow, I had my dessert, I've reached the pinnacle of my desires. Where do I go from here? Is there anything left? And did it really truly satisfy me? Or am I just a pathetic being? And do I have any reason to live beyond this? So when the sun is coming in the window, he knows he's going to burn? If do I take my chances and try to get out of the room and pass the window? Sure. And if I die, you know what? Maybe I deserve it by now. I think that's kind of what the backstory I gave him, that maybe. I'm not sure.

[Ash]

So it translates. Definitely.

[Elena]

It really does.

[Doug Jones]

No. Thank you. Thank you so much. That's very, very sweet. Beautiful and wonderful and intimidating to play this role too, because there's no way to not compare me to Max Schreck and also to all the other Nosferatu's, including Willem Dafoe's brilliant Shadow of the Vampire version and of course Bill Skarsgard coming. I'm sure he's going to be delicious in whatever he does with it too.

[Ash]

Definitely. Yeah, I could see why that would be an Intimidating role to take on for sure.

[Elena]

I love that you put, like, your own spin on it, though, and that you put your own feelings into those poses and everything, because it really does translate.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You left your mark on Nosferat too.

[Doug Jones]

Oh, thank you so, so much. Yeah. I was so happy that our director, too, was on board with making sure we hit all those iconic notes. Like when he's in the bowels of the ship in transit and the captain comes down and sees him, like, standing up from his coffin, stiff as a board. Right.

[Elena]

So good.

[Doug Jones]

Right, that, that took some engineering, by the way. And. And then also the. The. That famous shadow going up the stairs when he's on his way to Ellen's bedroom. So spooky, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then of course, like I said, that the grabbing of the heart and the hand out to the sun when it's time.

[Ash]

Classic. I love it.

[Doug Jones]

Classic, Classic moment.

[Ash]

Yeah, it's awesome. Going back to the look you mentioned, like, does he even know that he looks like this? What was the costuming like? Like, was it very heavy on prosthetics? How was that for you?

[Doug Jones]

Yeah, good question. This was as far as prosthetics go. Again, I've played creatures that are rubberized from head to toe. This was not that. This is head and hands, thank heaven. With a very specific wardrobe to match the original wardrobe. And there was a bit of a hump built into the back because he was hunched over in the original film. I think I probably stand a little straighter than Max Shrek did. But they still did have some extra built and built into that hump area of the back.

[Ash]

Oh, okay.

[Doug Jones]

With this long double breasted coat and that was gorgeous. And the prosthetics, though, were. I wore more prosthetics than the other. Nosferatu's have really played him, including Max Shrek was very smooth. It was basically his face with a bald cap and some ears and some funny swaps of hair placed just so I was more wrinkled and elderly looking, which was a design choice. And here's the fun, the fun backstory of that look. Mike Elizalde, a very talented artist who owns the creature shop Spectral Motion, that did the Hellboy movies with me and the Silver Surfer movie with me. And he, as a. As a garage project at home, started sculpting a Nosferatu decades ago on a life cast of me. My bust.

[Ash]

Oh, wow.

[Doug Jones]

He added clay to me and started sculpting what he thought Nosferatu might look like in his dream, and he came up with that Once. Once it was done, they had prosthetic pieces made of it. And just as a test, fun makeup test, one day he called up and said, would you ever want to put this on just for a Saturday afternoon fun photo shoot? I said, yes.

[Ash]

Casual. It's like manifesting.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Doug Jones]

Right. So we went and did that. And this is, again, a good 10 years before this movie came up.

[Elena]

Oh, this is my movie.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah. So when David Lee Fisher, who I'd worked with before, on a movie much like this, we did. We did a reimagining a re. A remix of the Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, that 1919 silent film that we made into the same thing. Old movie, new movie put together with dialogue, sound, musical score. So David Lee Fisher calls me up one day and says, hey, if you don't want to do this, I won't do it. But. But I have this idea. Would you want to ever do Nosferatu like we did Caligari? And I was like, you have been reading my dreams. Yes. Right. So. So. And I said in that same phone call, oh, my gosh, I know exactly what makeup I want to wear doing this, too. Wow. So we went back to Mike Elizaldi, and his design is what Mo Minhart and Ben Plowman then put on me on the day. It took about four hours a day. And those four hours also included appliances on the back of my hands to make them more bony and veiny.

[Ash]

Right.

[Doug Jones]

And also to add those. Those long, delicious talents. Fingernails.

[Elena]

Yes, the acrylics.

[Doug Jones]

Right, right. Talk about Lee Press on nails. Those are. Yeah, yeah.

[Ash]

That is so cool. It was like you were manifesting this ten years in advance.

[Elena]

That's amazing. Yeah. For real.

[Doug Jones]

Isn't that wackadoodle? I know. I love it. Just love it.

[Elena]

See, it was meant to be.

[Ash]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Elena]

It really was. So, speaking of all these vampire things, because vampires are so much fun, and it's spooky season, and Nosferatu, a symphony of horror is coming. Why not? Talk about a funny, stinky vampire legend. Really quick, quick, we thought.

[Doug Jones]

Oh, okay. I want to hear this. Yes.

[Ash]

All right. I've got a stinky vampire for you.

[Doug Jones]

Okay. Okay.

[Ash]

This case of vampirism brings us all the way back to Pench Salisa, a section of Poland. It was the yield days of 1582. Oh, and Johannes.

[Elena]

That is yield.

[Ash]

It's yield. Johannes, conscious, was out with one of his horses. They were all trying to repair the horse's shoe. It was him and a couple assistants. Distance. Now. Something went wrong. Where the horse got upset and actually ended up kicking Conscious, knocking him unconscious also. I swear that's his name and I'm not swearing right now.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah, Conscious went unconscious.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly. So luckily, like I said, he wasn't working out there alone. So they picked him up, they brought him inside, laid him down in bed. Now he slipped in and out of consciousness in the following days, but in the moments where he was with it away, some dark, dark secrets started to come out. Oh, Conscious was very, very worried about dying because the life he led wasn't really the purest. He was a well respected alderman in a small community. But he admitted while laying on his deathbed that his life had been full of various sins. Some even claimed that he admitted to making a deal with the devil.

[Elena]

That's a big one.

[Ash]

That's a huge one.

[Doug Jones]

That's a big one. Yeah.

[Ash]

That'll send you straight to Hades.

[Doug Jones]

Life altering.

[Ash]

The. The story goes that the deal was made around the same time that Conscious's Young Song, Young son, excuse me, disappeared. And many believe that he actually sold his son to the devil for money. Which right after his son disappeared, he fell into a great sum of.

[Elena]

That's. That's the biggest sin you could do, I feel, selling your son to the Devil.

[Doug Jones]

That's. That's a. That's damning evidence too, isn't it?

[Ash]

That's very damning evidence. The timing is suspect.

[Elena]

The literal receipts are there.

[Ash]

And that's. That's sin of all sins.

[Elena]

Money has exchanged hands.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Doug Jones]

Right, right.

[Ash]

Hands, claws, whatever happened. Whatever happened. So while he laid dying in his bed, he would call out, woe is me, how do I burn? And I'm all on fire. And he would repeat over and over again that his sins were, quote, bigger than all of the world. Besides. And we all agree.

[Elena]

Yeah. And everyone said, yeah, they said, you.

[Ash]

Sold your son to the Devil, Conscious. What did you expect?

[Doug Jones]

Yeah, that tracks. Yeah.

[Ash]

So that the night that Conscious actually did die, he did eventually come, you know, to his death.

[Elena]

The great unconscious is what he became. That was great.

[Doug Jones]

Thank you for that.

[Elena]

No problem.

[Ash]

So the night that he did die, his son, his oldest son that didn't get sold to the devil was sitting in the room with him and later said that a black cat slinked into the room him, jumped upon Conscious's chest and started scratching at his face feverishly. Almost like the cat was trying to erase him from this world, the son said. And this was right before he died.

[Elena]

That's poetic.

[Ash]

He wasn't completely dead yet. It is Poet. Yet his son said that as the cat suddenly disappeared from the room, Conscious breathed out his last breath. Ooh.

[Elena]

So he. He did. Erase him from the world.

[Ash]

He did. The cat said, my job here is done.

[Doug Jones]

You're okay. He licked his paws and left the room right y.

[Elena]

And he said, you're welcome.

[Ash]

He said, peace out, you guys. So the moment that conscious did die, a great storm was said to have started. And it raged on all throughout his funeral. Henry Moore wrote, no sooner conscious was dead, but a great tempest arose which raged most at his very funeral. There being such impetus, storms of wind and snow, that it made men's bodies quake, Their teeth chatter in their heads. But soon as he was interred, all of a sudden, it was calm.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

Isn't that beautiful?

[Elena]

That is beautiful.

[Ash]

Okay, Henry.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So there were actually a lot of moving pieces surrounding conscious burial. His friends and family all felt, you know, they had heard of his sins, but they said maybe he was just, you know, unconscious and talking crazy. They said, I really think he's a great man, and he deserves to be laid to rest in a hallowed place. So they all got together and pooled their money to make sure that he was buried to the right of the church's altar, which I guess in ye olde days was the best place to primo spot. Primo spot, like rockstar parking? Yeah, no. Apparently, very shortly after he was put to rest there, little splats of blood started showing up on the church's cloth, which was right above where his grave was.

[Elena]

That's so metal.

[Ash]

And listen to this. People around town started claiming that they were seeing conscious roam the streets. Uh oh, that would be, you know, well and fine, like, cool. Be a ghost. Be a specter. But conscious wasn't just a specter. He was a menace to the town and a straight up criminal. According to occultworld.com, when conscious started roaming the streets again, he was going wild. His specter quote, strangled old men, Galloped around the house like a horse, Wrestled with people. This is my personal favorite. Vomited fire. Like we said.

[Elena]

That is menacing.

[Ash]

That's menacing. There's more, though. Like we said, Bodied the church's altar cloth with blood. This is horrible. Bashed the heads of dogs against the ground.

[Elena]

Oh, straight to jail.

[Ash]

Straight to jail. Turned milk into blood.

[Elena]

Ew.

[Ash]

Drank up supplies of milk, Sucked cows dry, Threw goats about. Devoured chicken, and pulled up fence posts. Uh oh, Just a few of the activities that he was up to.

[Elena]

Threw goats about and also pulled up fence posts. Like, he was like, ah, your Fence whilst vomiting fire. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

[Doug Jones]

Right? That was his own personal workout.

[Ash]

Exactly. Calisthenics.

[Doug Jones]

Right, Right.

[Ash]

So he was getting all of that. You know, some of that was, like, not so great. Most of it, you were just like, okay, ketchus, you're getting crazy. This is where it gets dark. He was also getting very frisky and inappropriate with the women in town.

[Elena]

That's so, like, conscious.

[Ash]

So consciousy. Shortly shortly after his death, he was said to have returned to his own home, which neighbors had seen physically shaking in the days leading up to this incident. And he supposedly just walked right into his wife's bedroom and demanded that she move over so he could get into bed with her.

[Elena]

Whoa.

[Ash]

Now, obviously that would be horrifying enough, but to add insult to injury, this spectre conscious had the most foul breath that this woman had ever smelled in her life.

[Elena]

Oh, this poor woman.

[Doug Jones]

Poor dear.

[Ash]

Poor dear. Loses her husband, and he comes back all stanky, wanting to get into bed with halitosis.

[Doug Jones]

Exactly the worst.

[Elena]

Lost her husband, who sold their son to the devil.

[Doug Jones]

To the devil.

[Elena]

Yeah. And now she had some issues to.

[Doug Jones]

Work out in therapy, didn't she?

[Elena]

And then he's like, move over. I'd be like, no, no.

[Doug Jones]

She.

[Ash]

She rode a horse to her therapist first thing in the morning and said, honey, sit down. So now she wasn't the only woman whose bed that conscious was trying to get into.

[Doug Jones]

Conscious.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Many women in town were reporting his seeing his spectre appearing to them, touching them without permission, and stanking up the surrounding areas.

[Elena]

He would stink.

[Ash]

He was very smelly. Did you know that every year over 1 million Americans are diagnosed with diabetes? That's why Goodrx is here to help. With 20 popular diabetes medications for less than $20, GoodRx is free and easy to use. Just search for any prescription on the Goodrx website or the app. Get your coupon and show it to the pharmacist. Check GoodRx to save up to 80% at pharmacies near you, including Walmart, Walgreens, CVS, Publix, L. Albertsons, Kroger's, and many more. Remember, GoodRx works whether you have insurance or not. And even if you do have insurance, GoodRx could beat your co pay price. Whether you're refilling a diabetes medication or picking up any prescription, don't forget to check Good Rx. I was at the pharmacy the other day picking up a prescription, and I personally was using my Goodrx and my copay was so much cheaper. And there was A lady behind me, and she was like, how'd you just get that for so cheap? And I said, honey, look into Good Rx, would you? For savings on diabetes medications and other everyday prescriptions, check Good rx go to goodrx.commorbid that's goodrx.commorbid. now, this went on for months and months. People were seeing and unfortunately, smelling conscious everywhere he appeared to old friends, old enemies. His specter was returning to his house and scaring the out of the servants. People were also seeing flashes of lights at all hours of the night coming from the house. And people saw him on horseback a few times.

[Elena]

You know, he goes for a ride every now and then, an evening stroll.

[Ash]

So obviously something had to be done about this. Am I right?

[Doug Jones]

Yeah, you're so right.

[Elena]

Get him out of here.

[Ash]

But what were the townspeople to do? How do you stop a dead man?

[Doug Jones]

No.

[Ash]

Well, they started by going to his grave. And when they got there, they saw all these little holes in the ground. So they said, oh, that must be it. You know, he's like, oozing out of the earth, obviously. So they said, we'll fill these up and maybe that will put an end to things. It did not. And the little holes just kept reappearing. So after going back to the drawing board, they decided something more had to be done here. They had to exhume his body and check it out. So they set out to do just that. And when his coffin was opened up, somehow, after six months of being dead as a door nail, Conscious's body was perfectly preserved.

[Elena]

Oh, stunk.

[Ash]

It did stink, definitely.

[Doug Jones]

But it had to stink, though.

[Elena]

Confirm.

[Ash]

Had to stink definitely.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah.

[Ash]

It's even said that they handed him a staff and he was able to reach out and grab it. So they were like, th. This rocked their worlds even more. They said, what are we to do here? So they went. They actually went to a judge and had asked him what they should do, and he said the best thing that they could possibly do was burn conscious's body. So they said, okay, all right, let's do it.

[Elena]

He's a vampir.

[Ash]

He's a vampir. They said, you're working with a vampir here, you gotta burn.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So.

[Doug Jones]

Right.

[Ash]

They tried to. They tried to light him ablaze, but his body wouldn't stay lit. Kuncha said, no, it's like awful.

[Doug Jones]

Birthday candles.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

Trick candles.

[Ash]

They got the idea from conscious. You didn't know, you know.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah.

[Elena]

If you look on the back, it actually has this legend on the little pack.

[Ash]

It Does. It's just more condensed, that's all. So they said, well, we got to do something about this. So they ended up cutting him into smaller pieces. And when they made the first cut, they said blood spilled from him like it was still flowing freely throughout his body.

[Elena]

My goodness.

[Doug Jones]

After six months of death.

[Ash]

After six months of death. But luckily they ended up being able to fully burn the body once it was cut into smaller pieces. And nobody ever saw or smelled conscious again.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

Well, what a crazy tale, right?

[Doug Jones]

Was quite a tale. And so I have to ask. So was. So was this. Are these true accounts? Are these. Is this fictitious? What? Where does this story come from? Polish folklore at least, right?

[Ash]

Yes, it's Polish folklore, and it's based off of Henry Moore's version of events of this tale that he wrote. And it was basically something he was writing against atheism.

[Elena]

Whoa.

[Doug Jones]

Oh, okay. Okay. Oh, interesting.

[Elena]

Maybe he was like, conscious. It happened.

[Ash]

He said, let me. There's actually. You can read and I'll link it in the show notes. You can read this tale in much greater detail because Henry Moore told us a lot about conscious.

[Doug Jones]

Oh, really? Okay. So that you gave us the abridged version.

[Ash]

This is the abridged version. I didn't want to keep you here. I know you have other roles to get to. Ducky.

[Doug Jones]

I know. It's true. I want to play conscious now.

[Elena]

I was going to say your next role is right here.

[Ash]

I'll send you the link to the detailed version and you find somebody to make that movie.

[Doug Jones]

Okay. It's a deal. I was going to say I'm surprised it hasn't been made yet. I know this comes from 1500 something. Yeah.

[Elena]

Just start practicing throwing goats about and vomiting from.

[Doug Jones]

And taking fences up by the pegs.

[Elena]

Yes, just pulling fences up.

[Ash]

Just skip the other crappy stuff like, you know, the dog beating and. And the woman.

[Doug Jones]

No, I don't want to.

[Ash]

Intimidating.

[Doug Jones]

Great. You know, milking cows and turning them to blood or.

[Ash]

Yeah, yeah, maybe skip that part.

[Elena]

But, you know, throwing goats about is fine as long as you're not hurting them.

[Doug Jones]

If they can land on their hooves. Okay.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Just holding their hooves and running around with them.

[Ash]

Yeah, there you go. But yeah, that's the tale of conscious man.

[Doug Jones]

I like that. Thank you for that. That was. That was a story I'd never heard before.

[Ash]

I'm so glad to tell Joe Jones a story he's never heard about a vampire.

[Doug Jones]

About a vampire.

[Elena]

Well, we would end unconscious, which would seem appropriate. But we do have one little thing that we would love to end on. We love to do a little short game with guests a lot because this. These tend to be fun to hear answers for. So we would like to know who out of these three characters that I'm going to list would be most likely to do these certain things. I'm going to ask.

[Doug Jones]

Okay.

[Elena]

So who out of Billy Butcherson, Baron Alphinas, and Nosferatu would have compete? Which one would have won the Hunger Games?

[Doug Jones]

Okay. Okay. Oh, not Billy. I don't think he has any powers to last very long.

[Ash]

No. And the mouth so shut would be.

[Doug Jones]

Not great between Baron Aff and Nosferatu, I'm going to say it's probably going to be the Baron. The Baron will have lasted longer for the Hunger Games because he tends to show, like, supernatural powers more often. Right where he flies. He zaps things with his hands. He could take them. He could take them all.

[Ash]

I think so.

[Elena]

I think so, too. And he's charming. He could do the alliance thing really well.

[Doug Jones]

He's good at gaslighting.

[Elena]

Yeah, I agree.

[Ash]

That's the perfect answer.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah.

[Elena]

So the next one is out of those three characters who would take over the world successfully if given the chance.

[Doug Jones]

Oh, poor Billy. I'm gonna have to leave him out of the scene again.

[Elena]

Poor Billy.

[Doug Jones]

Bless his heart.

[Elena]

He might win the next one.

[Ash]

Yeah, yeah. He probably won't win the next one.

[Doug Jones]

Okay. Okay. So why don't we. I'm gonna say probably let's go with Nosferatu on this one, because I think that Count Orlock, his subtleties and his sneaking around the back door kind of personality might be what gets him to take over things with no one knowing about it. Whereas the Baron is very out there and very presentational and. Yeah, right. Yeah. He does it with a flourish, and so you see it coming. And he would be stopped before, but the Count would be more shifty about it.

[Elena]

Yeah, I agree. Good point. I agree with that.

[Ash]

I love the thought put into this.

[Elena]

That was a good one. And the last one, I'm thinking about it, and it might not be Billy Bipartisan, possibly.

[Doug Jones]

Okay.

[Elena]

Who would have the biggest TikTok following?

[Doug Jones]

Well, no, honestly, it is indeed Billy.

[Elena]

I was gonna say I felt like he was gonna win, but I was. I didn't know if the Baron could edge him out.

[Doug Jones]

Well, the Baron would love to be the most famous of all of them because he's very. Such a narcissist. But I think Billy would win because a scene that you did not, that you never saw or a moment you Never saw from Hocus Pocus. One that we did film but was cut from the film was. Do you remember the costume dance party?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Doug Jones]

Where Bette Miller gets the witches get up on stage and sing. I put a spell on you.

[Ash]

Iconic.

[Doug Jones]

Yes, iconic moment.

[Elena]

Right.

[Doug Jones]

Well, my character Billy Butcherson was in that scene and I broke into the. And I fit into the costume party. Nobody really noticed me because everybody was done up as something and so. Oh, look, the fun zombie. Right. So I'm, I'm roaming about the crowd looking for the kids and trying to, you know, do my deed. And once Bette Midler sings, you know, I put a spell on you and then the whole crowd gets in a trance and starts dance, dance, dancing until the spell is broken. I'm not under the spell, but I thought it was kind of fun for me. So there was a scene where you come. The action continues outside the dance party, but they come back to the dance party to show everybody still dancing a couple of times.

[Ash]

Oh, I love that.

[Doug Jones]

One of those, One of those coming back to the parties was going to be Billy hopping up onto stage and dancing once he had an audience and be like, hey, I'm here, I'm here. And I tell you something, I threw my legs about in such tomfoolery. I bounced up and down on the floor. I did the.

[Elena]

We didn't get to see this.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Doug Jones]

That was a raging TikTok video before TikTok existed are correct. I think Billy would have the dance videos that could end all, all dance videos if. If he had a Tik Tok.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

I think that footage needs to be released and somebody needs to make Billy Butcherson a Tik Tok.

[Elena]

Yes.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah. Come on.

[Ash]

Oh, I love knowing that. Thank you for that.

[Doug Jones]

I don't talk about that very often. So you, you gotta. You might have gotten an exclusive.

[Ash]

I love that. Dougie Jones forever.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah.

[Ash]

We always have so much fun with.

[Elena]

We do.

[Doug Jones]

Me too. You.

[Ash]

So thank you so much for coming on today. We love sitting with you.

[Elena]

You are always welcome.

[Ash]

You are one of our most favorite, most treasured guests. And plug, plug, plug, whatever you have now upcoming, feel free to shout it from the rooftops here.

[Doug Jones]

Well, let's, let's, let's go down the list we talked about. Of course we have. We have Nosferatu, a symphony of horror coming to Apple TV Friday 18th October and on Amazon prime as well. I'm also told it's on Fandango and Roku and so look for it on whatever your Device is also, October 21st starts the new season, the final season of what we do in the Shadows. Baron Affinas does return for a few episodes. You'll see me on the first night. I think that they think. They told me they're going to show three episodes on the first night. So you're going to have a lot of shadows to start the season up.

[Elena]

Nice.

[Doug Jones]

Also, Billy Butcherson, as we've talked about, is in hocus pocus 1 and 2 all month long on the Freeform channel, playing as a double feature on various nights and days. And other than that, I have. I have more movies coming. I've been doing a lot of indies and shorts over the last year and a half, playing a lot of humans.

[Elena]

Oh, exciting.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah. I'm loving this phase. And one of them is a funny movie called Operation Taco Gary's obsessed zany comedy. Right. Two brothers are on a road trip across the country, and when they get to their destination, they find themselves in the middle of a conspiracy with an Earth takeover by aliens. And I might happen to be the alien trying to pass as a human who's the leader of all this.

[Elena]

Yes.

[Ash]

Amazing.

[Doug Jones]

So Operation Taco Gary's is going to be playing at the Austin Film Festival October 25th.

[Elena]

Awesome.

[Ash]

You have an exciting October, Doug.

[Elena]

I know.

[Doug Jones]

It's quite a month. Yeah. And then next week, I'm actually going to North Carolina to film an episode of Blue Ridge, which is a. This is a turning of the page for me. I'm gonna play a guy who lives in the mountains and. And what happens with me is yet to be. Yet to be discovered. But that's a show that's. That's led by Jonathan Scheck, if you remember him from. He was the head lead singer of the Wonders in that thing. You do.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Doug Jones]

And he was also. He was also the young hottie in a movie with Winona writer called American Quilts back. That was kind of his breakout back in the day.

[Elena]

I remember that movie.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Doug Jones]

He also played Houdini in a TV movie of Houdini, which again, he was brilliant as that character. And he also played Jonah Hex in DC's oh, gosh. Which DC show was that?

[Elena]

I'm so bad at these.

[Doug Jones]

Yeah, I know, I know. Right? Right. So anyway, so all my scenes are with him. And I can't wait to play that out. That's this coming week I'm going to be filming that. So that'll come out on the Inspiration Channel and the cowboy way. I think when it's when. When their Season two finally airs.

[Ash]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Elena]

Man, you are busy.

[Doug Jones]

Yes, we're doing it. We're doing it this way this month.

[Ash]

All good stuff. Getting after it. I love it.

[Elena]

Seriously.

[Ash]

Well, thank you again.

[Elena]

Yeah, thank you so much. And again, you are welcome anytime.

[Doug Jones]

No, bless you all. Thank you so much for having me. I adore you, too. Don't ever change.

[Ash]

We adore you either.

[Doug Jones]

Okay. Okay. Loving you so much.

[Elena]

Love you so much. Thank you so much.

[Ash]

Bye, darling. Well, guys, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. Unfortunately, you'll never be able to keep it as cool as Doug Jones. But never. I meant to say keep it as weird. You'll never be as cool as. You'll never keep it as weird as Doug Jones. Love you.

[Doug Jones]

So please tell the children that Billy Belichick Butterson loves them very much. Would you do that for me?

[Elena]

Amazing. I was just gonna ask you to do that.

[Doug Jones]

All right.

[Elena]

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[Ash]

If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey hotshot.

[D]

Australian Attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royal her specialty, representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own.

[Ash]

She's going to all the major groups.

[Doug Jones]

Within Melbourne's underworld and she's informing on them all.

[D]

I'm Marcia Clark, host of the new podcast Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list.

[Doug Jones]

She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop.

[D]

Now, through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to informants Lawyer X exclusively on Wondry. Join Wondry in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts or Spotify and listen to more. Exhibit C, true crime shows early and ad free right now.