Episode 620: The Suspicious Kidnapping of Sherri Papini

Summary

Podcast Summary: Morbid Network | Wondery
Episode 620: The Suspicious Kidnapping of Sherri Papini
Release Date: November 21, 2024

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1. Introduction to the Case

In Episode 620 of Morbid, hosts Ash and Elena delve into the perplexing and controversial case of Sherri Papini, exploring the suspicious circumstances surrounding her disappearance and subsequent reappearance. The episode meticulously unpacks the timeline, community response, investigative challenges, and the eventual unraveling of Papini’s orchestrated hoax.

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2. Sherri Papini's Disappearance

On November 2, 2016, Sherri Papini, a 34-year-old stay-at-home mother, failed to pick up her children from daycare in Reading, California, raising immediate alarms among her family, friends, and community. Her husband, Keith Papini, described her as a devoted wife and mother with no known reasons to disappear, stating, “there’s no reason for her to leave. She was definitely taken against her will” (09:28).

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3. Community and Law Enforcement Response

The local community united in the search for Sherri, demonstrating remarkable solidarity. Neighbors, friends, and local organizations like Shasta Support Service and Shasta County Guardian Angels mobilized extensive search efforts. A Facebook group dedicated to finding Sherri generated numerous tips, and a significant reward of up to $50,000 was offered to encourage assistance (16:45).

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4. Initial Findings and Media Coverage

Despite the intense search efforts, a week passed with no substantial leads. Sheriff Tom Bozenko maintained the investigation as ongoing, labeling it a "missing person at risk" case. The lack of clear evidence and motive fueled public speculation and drew comparisons to fictional scenarios like "Gone Girl" (19:34), exacerbating skepticism about the authenticity of Sherri’s disappearance.

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5. Skepticism and Racial Undertones

As doubts mounted, significant skepticism arose regarding the legitimacy of Sherri’s kidnapping. Investigations revealed Sherri's past, including racist blog posts from 2007 where she expressed hostility towards Latinos, stating, “I am drug free, white, and proud of my blood and heritage” (32:35). This revelation led many to question whether the entire abduction was a fabricated scheme to demonize the Latino community, intensifying racial tensions and resulting in harassment of innocent Latino women (74:06).

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6. Investigation Progress and Evidence

The FBI eventually took over the case, uncovering substantial evidence of Sherri’s deceit. It was revealed that Sherri had been in contact with her ex-boyfriend, Sean Ray, using burner phones, and had orchestrated her disappearance while staying with him. Forensic evidence, including DNA matching her ex-boyfriend, further exposed the hoax. Sherri admitted to faking her kidnapping to manipulate her marriage and gain attention (60:10; 56:57).

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7. Arrest and Legal Proceedings

In March 2022, after thorough investigation and gathering undeniable evidence, Sherri Papini was arrested. She faced charges including lying to the FBI and mail fraud for receiving over $30,000 in victim assistance funds fraudulently. Papini eventually pleaded guilty in exchange for a reduced sentence, resulting in 18 months in prison and a 36-month supervised probation period. Despite her plea, she remained unapologetic towards the Latino community, failing to address the racial implications of her actions (80:03; 81:00).

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8. Reflections and Conclusions

Ash and Elena reflect on the profound impact of Sherri Papini's actions, emphasizing the extensive trauma inflicted on her family and the broader community. They highlight the dangers of social media-fueled hysteria and the ease with which individuals can manipulate public perception for personal gain. The hosts commend the community's initial efforts but condemn Sherri’s blatant disregard for empathy and community well-being.

Notable Quotes:

• Keith Papini: “We love Sherry and are appalled by the way in which law enforcement ambushed her...” (41:28)
• Sheriff Tom Bozenko: “We currently have no reason to disbelieve Sherry Papini's story...” (41:55)
• Araceli Gutierrez: “These are the ones that you just suss out and you say, fuck off.” (74:35)

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Key Takeaways

• Sherri Papini's disappearance was a meticulously planned hoax aimed at manipulating her personal life and sowing racial discord.
• Community and law enforcement efforts, while initially robust, were undermined by racial biases and media sensationalism.
• The case underscores the dangers of social media-fueled panic and the importance of thorough, unbiased investigations.
• Sherri Papini's actions had far-reaching negative impacts, traumatizing her family and perpetuating racial tensions.

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Conclusion: Episode 620 of Morbid provides a comprehensive examination of Sherri Papini's controversial kidnapping case, unraveling the layers of deceit and its profound effects on both her immediate community and broader societal dynamics. The hosts effectively highlight the complexities of the case, offering listeners a detailed understanding of how personal agendas can intertwine with communal vulnerabilities.

Transcript

[Ash]

Wondery plus subscribers can listen to Morbid early and ad free. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. Hey everyone, let's talk about protein for a second. There's this rumor that getting plant based protein is tough, but listen, there are some amazing options out there even if you're not vegan. Adding more plant based protein to your diet is a fantastic way to nourish your body and support the planet. My good go to for tasty protein and superfood pack shake is Cachava. Every serving of Cachava offers 25 grams of 100% plant based protein. But that's not all this all in one shake has fiber, quality, fats, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and so much more. I love that I can tick so many boxes with just one delicious shake. If you know me, you know that vanilla and chai are my favorite flavors and I like to combine them. But they also have chocolate, they've got matcha, and they've got coconut acai. I'm a big fan of the coconut acai as well. After drinking Kachava first thing in the morning because that's when I always drink it, I feel satiated for hours. I feel focused, calm and ready to take on my day. Something that I really love to do if I even want like a little bit more protein is just add a scoop of peanut butter to the vanilla and chai concoction that I make. And that oh is just scrum diddly umpious honey. Kachava is offering our listeners 10% off on their subscription for a limited time. Just go to kachava.commorbid spelled k a C H A v a and get 10% off your first order. That's K A C H A V A dot com morbid what's it like to get the new iPhone 16 Pro with at and T Next up Anytime? It's like when you first light up the grill and think of all the mouthwatering possibilities. Learn how to get the new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence on AT and T and the latest iPhone every year with AT and T next up anytime ATT connecting changes everything. Apple Intelligence coming fall 2024 with Siri and device language set to US English. Some features and languages will be coming over the next year. $0 offer may not be available on future iPhones. Next up Anytime features may be discontinued at any time, subject to change additional fees. Terms and restrictions apply. See att.com iPhone for details hey, weirdos. I'm Ash.

[Elena]

And I'm Elena.

[Ash]

And this is mor. This is morbid post Halloween morbid. Merry Christmas, everyone. Happy Hanukkah. Happy holidays.

[Elena]

Happy holiday.

[Ash]

Holidays. They're coming.

[Elena]

I'm a little bit in my post Halloween. Like, man said, I'm sorry.

[Ash]

I have joy. Not that Halloween is over. I'm not joyful about that because I fucking fuck so heavy with Halloween. But I became a November 1st girly this year.

[Elena]

You did.

[Ash]

I'm never in November 1st. Like, everything gone. Christmas decorations up. Let's go girly. But I feel that way.

[Elena]

But this week you said I am.

[Ash]

Yeah. I started my Christmas shopping. I am gonna. I decided also this year, I'm switching it up. I'm gonna get a fake tree this year.

[Elena]

That's. That's a move.

[Ash]

It's a huge move for me.

[Elena]

It is.

[Ash]

I never got to. I never got to have a real tree growing up because we always like, lived in apartments and stuff, so it was difficult. And my mom was like, I'm not going to get a fake tree. Like, I'm busy. And so when I. Me and Drew first got. Or when I first moved in with mom and papa, they always got me a real tree because I was like, please.

[Elena]

Because we always got real trees.

[Ash]

Yeah. And then when me and Drew got together, I was like, we must have a real tree. Except for the one year that we were in an apartment. But this year I was like. Drew asked me, he was like, can we go back to like a. Like a fake tree? Like, it's a pain in the ass to have a real tree and I don't do anything for it. So I was like, no, we have to have a real one. And then yesterday I was thinking, I don't know, you can buy them pre lit and.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And I'm always cleaning up the pine needles, which drives me insane. And then you can get that Febreze that smells like the Christmas tree.

[Elena]

It's true.

[Ash]

I'm gonna get a fake one this year. I don't know. I was just.

[Elena]

I'm a real tree, girly.

[Ash]

You're a real treat.

[Elena]

Yeah, I can't. I can't relate.

[Ash]

I usually am. I'll see how I like this. And then if I don't like it, I can always just like, bring it to Sabers and get a real tree.

[Elena]

Yeah. I love the. I love. There's a different smell. It is different to like a chemical smell.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

Of pine.

[Ash]

One thing that I don't love. Well, our cats are annoying. A Little bit.

[Elena]

That's why I don't have cats, though.

[Ash]

And also, I don't like the stickiness when you're taking out the tree when it's all done.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And then, like, you look and, like, the wall is sticky. I don't like that.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And the floor gets sticky.

[Elena]

You're like, I'm gonna convince myself that that's kind of what I'm doing.

[Ash]

I don't know. I don't. It's just. It's just a feeling.

[Elena]

Like, I actually hate it.

[Ash]

It hit me over like a freight train.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Just said fake tree.

[Elena]

I mean, good for you, man. I support that for you.

[Ash]

Thanks.

[Elena]

I think the girls would kill us if we didn't get a real tree.

[Ash]

You think?

[Elena]

They love the process of picking out a tree.

[Ash]

It's very fun.

[Elena]

And, like, the whole shebang.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I feel like when we have kids, we'll go back to that.

[Elena]

Yeah. It's like the process of picking out a tree is such a. Yeah.

[Ash]

It's a cute family day thing.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Oh, I think now you're making me second guess how I feel.

[Elena]

It's. That's the thing I just couldn't give up is the process of picking it out.

[Ash]

I know going to pick it out is fun, but also, I was thinking, too, I'm just in the mood to put my tree up now. Like, I want to put up a tree.

[Elena]

Yeah. And you can't do that.

[Ash]

And you can't. You only get, like, two weeks out of that bad boy. Maybe three.

[Elena]

You get more than that.

[Ash]

I don't know.

[Elena]

I was going to say you get.

[Ash]

I have.

[Elena]

You definitely get more than that.

[Ash]

How much time do you get out of your tree? Three, four weeks.

[Elena]

You get a few weeks. Weeks.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And then we always keep it up until the new year, so.

[Ash]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Trees.

[Elena]

Trees. You know, we also have.

[Ash]

I mean, the holidays are coming, so, like, get ready.

[Elena]

We have get ready.

[Ash]

If you're listening right now, I think it's November 14th. That's what Mikey told me.

[Elena]

Because we never know.

[Ash]

We never know.

[Elena]

Someday we'll know, right?

[Ash]

It is not November 14th right now. It is someday.

[Elena]

We'll get this right.

[Ash]

But, yes, if you're listening right now on Wondery plus, we have some new merch that went live. We've got, like, a fun fall holiday collection going on.

[Elena]

Whoop.

[Ash]

We got lots of cute new new shirts. One of them says malevolent deity. So I'm like.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Obsessed with that.

[Elena]

That one.

[Ash]

I love that one's. Really cool. There's a new hat that also says malevolent deity. I like the stay weird with, like, the moth.

[Elena]

Oh, yes.

[Ash]

That's a new one that we've got going. We got it in cropped and regular.

[Elena]

Very cozy, too. Yes, very cozy. We were very adamant about the feel of some. Like, we're. We're very much trying to get our hands on those things. So that's soft. We want soft. Because I'm very. I'm a texture person.

[Ash]

Same if I have a. Yeah.

[Elena]

Scratchy sweatshirt or T shirt. Oh, no.

[Ash]

Scratchy T shirt. I'll. I'll like.

[Elena]

The thought of it makes me want to scream.

[Ash]

I'm, like, cringing at the moment. I don't like it.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And then one thing that is also really exciting is the holiday sweater. There's a morbid holiday sweater. It's like our take on a holiday sweater.

[Elena]

It's like an ugly sweater. Yeah, but it's, like, so ugly. It's cute. Yeah, exactly.

[Ash]

And there's, like, lots of cute little details. And then one thing I am so excited about, I was like. Like, I needed. This is the charm bracelet.

[Elena]

Oh, I. I love the charm bracelet.

[Ash]

The charm bracelet is very cute.

[Elena]

Very fun.

[Ash]

If you are listening right now on Wondery plus, head your booty over to our shop and go grab that stuff. And if you're listening wide, do it retroactively.

[Elena]

Go back.

[Ash]

Go back.

[Elena]

Go back in time.

[Ash]

Do it.

[Elena]

Go do it.

[Ash]

See ya.

[Mikey]

Yay.

[Ash]

Yeah, I think that's all like, the. The biz nasty that we have going on.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You have. You have anything? What's up?

[Elena]

No, one thing. This is just a random thing. It has nothing to do with really anything.

[Ash]

I love random.

[Elena]

But it's just Ash had brought it because we covered Pan's Labyrinth on Scream recently. And I love Guillermo del Toro. And Ash had mentioned. And I remember seeing this a long time ago. I just never watched it. And Ash brought it back to my attention that Guillermo del Toro had done this Netflix anthology series called Cabinet of Curiosities. It's like eight episodes, all a different director that he has his hands in.

[Ash]

Oh, that's cool.

[Elena]

That he, like, curated. And it's all a different. Like a less than an hour long, like, mini movie.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Each one. And so far, fucking delightful.

[Ash]

I love it. Oh, good.

[Elena]

So if you haven't jumped on, like, I'm telling you, it's a fun thing to jump into. The autopsy is the. My number one so far. It is.

[Ash]

That's what I figured.

[Elena]

Fucking awesome.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

I'm telling you, everyone go watch the Autopsy because your mind is going to be fucking blown.

[Ash]

Yeah, I haven't seen. I like didn't watch any of the episodes, but I was scrolling for something to watch on Netflix and I saw Guillermo del Toro and I was like, oh, I was seeing this and then I looked at like what the. Like what it was and I saw like the witch, the Autopsy. And I was like, oh, this has got to see this.

[Elena]

It's real good. So if you guys are looking for something to keep the spooky season alive.

[Ash]

Forever, I love that.

[Elena]

It's definitely a good one to do.

[Ash]

And if you're an ash. I started rewatching Grace and Frankie. There you go. So two polar opposite girlies up in this room.

[Elena]

Very different.

[Ash]

I am obsessed. So we're going to talk today about the suspicious, super suspicious kidnapping of Sherry Papini.

[Elena]

Suspicious is a very kind way to say it.

[Ash]

So suspicious. So she jogged out of town. Like, don't be suspicious.

[Elena]

And kidnapping is also a kind way of saying it.

[Ash]

Yeah. I don't really know what else you'd call it.

[Elena]

The hoax.

[Ash]

The great hoax of Cherry Penn.

[Elena]

The absolute scam.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

That Cherry Peppini in, you know.

[Ash]

Terrible, terrible woman.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Truly terrible woman.

[Elena]

Complete asshole.

[Ash]

Complete asshole. Yeah.

[Elena]

Douchebag.

[Ash]

Douchebag of the century.

[Elena]

Truly.

[Ash]

So let's get into it. If you don't know this story, you're about to. When 34 year old Cheri Papini did not show up to pick up her kids from daycare on the afternoon of November 2, 2016, everyone was immediately alarmed. The teachers at school, her family, her friends, they were like, that's fucking weird.

[Elena]

Yeah. Because who would willingly not pick up their children from daycare? Oh, yeah, Sherry Papini.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Because she literally chose to leave her children at daycare to perpetuate this.

[Ash]

Yeah. Incredibly fucked.

[Elena]

Whoa.

[Ash]

Alina's just throwing up her finger. Every time she does it, she's like, whoa. But up until that point, everyone just knew her as like this lovely, doting, stay at home mom. That's what's so scary. All her energy went to her children.

[Elena]

So you never think she would do something.

[Ash]

Very cookie cutter, white picket fence vibes.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So her husband Keith told anchors on Good Morning America, everybody who knows my wife knows there's no reason for her to leave. She was definitely taken against her will. And he was not in on this. I'll tell you from the jump, Keith was blindsided.

[Elena]

And why would he have any reason to believe that somebody that is like, you would never think.

[Ash]

No. He thought he had, like a great life.

[Elena]

There's several layers of this story.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

That you go, in no world would I ever believe that someone would go this far or do this kind of absolute nonsense. And it just keep. It piles on. The more that adds into this. You go, no, no.

[Ash]

No one would do that. For what, Like Sherry. What did you. I mean, she got money out of it, like, that's for sure.

[Elena]

But it's like.

[Ash]

But I don't even think that was the.

[Elena]

Not nearly enough. Not nearly enough to what you're doing.

[Ash]

And I don't really think that was the ultimate goal. Like, at least in my opinion, just like knowing about the case. I don't. I think the goal was like, attention. There's a lot of mental illness. Was a factor. For sure.

[Elena]

For sure.

[Ash]

Like, there.

[Elena]

Ha. It has to. Like, this is beyond comprehension. Like, there's a documentary about it.

[Ash]

Yeah. It's called. I think it's the Perfect Life on Hulu. Hold on. I wrote it at the end of my notes.

[Elena]

It's a. This documentary will blow your mind. It's so good.

[Ash]

I think it's three episodes. It's Perfect Wife. The mysterious disappearance of Sherry Papini. And there was things in the documentary that I hadn't even heard about. Just like watching the case fold out.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

Like the end of it. I was like, oh, wow, you're just awful.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

In every way.

[Elena]

To the core.

[Ash]

Could be.

[Elena]

That's the other thing. This isn't just like, you know, some mental health issues going on. She's just a person to the core. Like when you find out, like, the. The details of who she is.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

She's an. Yeah. So it's like.

[Ash]

Yeah, it's wild.

[Elena]

I feel so bad for her family.

[Ash]

I do, too.

[Elena]

I really do.

[Ash]

So let's go back to the start. So earlier that day, Sheri left her home in Reading to go for a jog, something she'd done countless times before. It was her routine. Just before leaving for her jog, she texted Keith to ask if he was going to be home for lunch. And he said no, so she went out. When Keith got home from work that night, a little after five, he was surprised to find the house completely empty. Sherry at that point was a stay at home mom. And with the exception of a few days a week that the kids were in daycare, she was always home with them in the afternoons and she always went and got them from daycare. So by the time Keith got home, everyone Was home. Now, according to Shasta County Sheriff Tom Bozenko, Sherry was last seen by a neighbor, quote, in the area of the old Oregon Trail and Sunrise Drive, about a mile and a half from their home.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

Not far at all. Sheriff's deputies were able to trace Sherry's phone to the intersection where she was last seen using Find My iPhone with Keith's help. And it was there. They went out to that intersection and they found her phone, her earbuds, and several strands of blonde hair, which Sherry was or is a blonde. Her mother in law, Suzanne said of the discovery. I would say my personal reaction is that it's twofold. One is that it's good to have some sort of clue. But the other portion is that it really points to she's been taken. I mean, she wouldn't just drop her phone if she was running away.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

You wouldn't think.

[Elena]

No. The hair is like.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Again, when you know, like what's going on? It reminds me of Scream 4.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

When Jill is tearing out chunks of her hair.

[Ash]

So true. And people also always compare this to Gone Girl.

[Elena]

Yep. Yep.

[Ash]

Which I, I want to say Gone Girl came out before this.

[Elena]

I think it was. Yeah. Because I think it was called. A lot of people said it's like the Gone Girl case.

[Ash]

Yeah, I think you're right. Fact check me. I'll continue and you can interrupt me.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So Sherry had. She'd always been a dedicated wife and mother up to that point. She rarely deviated from a routine. She didn't have any physical or mental health conditions that anybody knew about at that point. And she had never had any interaction with law enforcement. So simply put, she was the last person that anybody would have ever expected to just disappear without a trace.

[Elena]

Bonkers.

[Ash]

Initially, sheriff's deputies fanned out across the area where she was last seen looking for any evidence that might point them in the right direction. But with the exception of the phone, the earbuds and the hair evidence, the search really didn't turn up anything else as far as clues. So a few days later, nearly 150 friends, family and neighbors spread out across Reading to help search for Sherry and many others handed out flyers or posted on social media. Like the community was very active in this case. It was one of those cases where you actually see the best of a community. Like banding together.

[Elena]

Yeah, everybody kind of bands together to help someone.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

That they think needs help.

[Ash]

That they think needs help. And they spend resources and money and time looking for this person.

[Elena]

Gone Girl, the book came out in 2012. And the, the movie came out in 2014.

[Ash]

Oh, okay. So like the movie came out like right before.

[Elena]

Someone took notes.

[Ash]

Somebody absolutely took notes. Not a doubt in my mind. So there were local businesses even offering their services or aiding in the search themselves. And local organizations like Shasta Support Service or Shasta County Guardian Angels were helping to coordinate different searches.

[Elena]

These poor people, they put, that's the thing. Like, this community really was amazing.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like everything would fall. The praise.

[Ash]

Yeah. And everything you would hope would happen when somebody actually fucking disappeared.

[Elena]

Yeah. They all did their job.

[Ash]

And above it, Sherry's sister Sheila told a reporter, I was just overwhelmed with all of the community involvement. Like, couldn't believe it. Within a few days of Sherry's disappearance, a massive Facebook group was generating a large number of tips. But at that point, none were particularly useful. And meanwhile in Reading, investigators started questioning the known sex offenders living in the area. But all had alibis that quickly checked out, so they were ruled out as suspects. And in an effort to encourage more tips from the public, Secret Witness, a community based organization to help with missing persons cases, offered a ten thousand dollar reward for any information leading to Sherry's safe return.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

A day later, that reward was raised to $50,000 thanks to a huge number of private donations.

[Elena]

Unbelievable.

[Ash]

And those who couldn't donate money seemed more than happy to donate their time. People were literally driving to reading from other parts of California, having been just absolutely moved by the growing number of articles about this woman that everyone at that point was referring to as super mom. Wow. Think of how big California is. Yeah. And people were driving from all over just to go participate in the search. Because this woman was so like such an inspiring mother to them, an inspiring wife.

[Elena]

That's what's so scary is it's like this, that's the thing. Like people were not wrong to, to be taking that from her because that's what was being portrayed.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly.

[Elena]

And it's like, damn, there's a lot of, a lot of compartmentalization of personalities here.

[Ash]

Yeah, definitely. So despite the truly remarkable community effort and countless man hours from local law enforcement, a week passed and there was still no sign of Sherry or even the slightest hint of where she could have possibly gone by that point. The sheriff's office had to consider the possibility of foul play, obviously, but they still weren't willing to confirm anything just yet. Lieutenant Anthony Bertaine told reporters on November 8, just based on the way this investigation kicked off, we're still handling this as a missing person at risk. We're investigating all avenues right now. We're not set on one particular direction. Now. The lack of news from local law enforcement was obviously frustrating for the family and for the community who were starting to feel like all their efforts weren't getting them any closer to finding Sherry. Yeah, I can't imagine that. Her sister Sheila said at the time, the frustrating part is we feel like we're going on nothing. I think we exhausted the resources that we have out here to search for her. We feel that it's moved to where she's been taken from this area and everyone in the nation needs to be looking. So they were thinking she was taken out of California at that point.

[Elena]

Yeah. And that must be the scariest thought, just thinking she could be anywhere. Yeah, literally anywhere.

[Ash]

And like, how are we going to find her in this like entire fucking country?

[Elena]

How do we narrow this down at all?

[Ash]

Exactly. Now, while the family's concerns of a kidnapping were understandable, they also were entirely plausible because less than a month earlier, on October 12, 51 year old Stacy Smart disappeared from her home in Lewiston, which is only about an hour from Reading. And with Sherry's disappearance happening so soon, and with the two women sharing pretty similar features, many in the community started to worry that maybe there was some kind of serial offender operating, which was probably the aim. Probably. So with no new evidence and a growing fear that something truly, truly nefarious had happened to Sherry, suspicion of course fell on Keith Papini, particularly among the Facebook group that was dedicated to finding Sheri.

[Elena]

And this is where it can get dangerous.

[Ash]

This is where it can get dangerous. Exactly. Because sure it happens a lot of course are involved, but there are also cases where they are not involved and they are just dedicated to finding their wife.

[Elena]

Well, and it's when it starts happening on like particularly Facebook, I feel like.

[Ash]

Any kind of social media where it's.

[Elena]

Like any kind of social media where it's like people are just getting kind of roasted on at the, you know, like at the stake for, for just like theories. It's like that's when it can get bad.

[Ash]

Because one also anybody can go on Facebook and say anything, literally on any.

[Elena]

Social media and say anything about anybody.

[Ash]

So it's like that's dangerous.

[Elena]

Yeah. And then it can compromise the investigation. Especially when it's an active investigation.

[Ash]

Yes, Exactly. So on November 9, Sherry's father, actually Rod Rodriguez, took to Facebook to defend his son in law saying, we recognize that in 80% of the disappearance cases the spouse is responsible, but conversely, that means in 20% of the cases that the spouse is not involved. This case falls into the latter category.

[Elena]

That's a big thing right there.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

For her father to be like, I'm not even going to entertain that idea. He knows the guy.

[Ash]

That's huge.

[Elena]

Like, he knows the guy more than anybody on social media knows the guy, you know?

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly. And as evidence of Keith's innocence, Rodriguez pointed to the fact that Keith had fully cooperated with law enforcement and noted that his alibi checked out. He was at work at the time. His boss confirmed that he had been at work at the time. And the police even checked the cell and GPS data recovered from his phone on the day of the disappearance. And that also checked out with his.

[Elena]

Like you've got like a fully, like a three pronged way of telling that he is not involved.

[Ash]

Exactly. But if he wasn't responsible, who the fuck was?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

This was obviously the question that the sheriff's office was grappling with once they cleared all of the more likely suspects on their list. Because I can't. I feel like obviously clearing suspects is a good thing, but the more and more you cross people off that list and their alibis are checking out, you're losing go from there steam.

[Elena]

Like that's the thing. Like once you cross people off, it's great because you're saying, cool, that the husband didn't do it. That's.

[Ash]

That's reaffirming.

[Elena]

And like the, you know, other people, it's like, yeah, you're narrowing it down, but sometimes it gets too narrow and then it's like you got nothing left.

[Ash]

Yeah. Like what avenue and where do we go from here? Right. So investigators searched. This is where they went from here. They searched state and local databases for cases with details that were matching Sherry's, but they didn't even find any connections.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

In fact, they even ruled out non human attackers like mountain lions. Sometimes in that area, mountain lions wander down into town and they can pose a threat to the public.

[Elena]

I get the fact that they even went that far.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

To narrow that. Like, that's pretty big.

[Ash]

They were doing their due diligence for sure. The sheriff said there were no signs of blood or a struggle. And tracking dogs also never picked up the scent of a body. It seemed like Sherry had literally jogged out into that intersection outside of town and just evaporated into the air, leaving behind only her phone in that, like the earbuds and the hair as evidence that she was even there. Listening on audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, and even new ways of thinking. Find genres you love and discover new ones along the way. Explore bestsellers, new releases, and thousands of included audiobooks and originals that members can listen to all they want with more added all the time. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your daily routine without needing to set aside extra time. There's more to imagine when you listen. If you know anything about Morbid, you know that we have the Weirdos Audiobook Club and we convene every couple months and this month we'll be convening on December 13 to talk about this wonderful title Bluebeard. Really, really good. It's kind of like a radio drama, which is very interesting, really having a great time listening. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.commorbid or text morbid to 500500 that's audible.commorbid or Text morbid to 500500 to try audible free for 30 days. Audible.commorbid Listen, I don't know about you guys but obviously I have some bad habits that I want to shrug off. You know, we've all got bad habits that we try to shake off and even though I'm not going around doing shady stuff like some of the people that we'd be talking about on this podcast, it's always a good idea to make moves towards good habits. Let me tell you about this new alternative to smoking and vaping called Flavored Air. Our sponsor Fume have created an award winning flavored air device that helps people ditch that bad habit of smoking. It was founded on this idea that if we stick to good habits, making change feels easier and less pressurized. Fume has a ton of delicious flavors to choose from. Crisp, Mint, Orange, Vanilla and new Peach Blush. I have the Peach Blush one and it is yummy with flavored air. You can satisfy your oral fixation through a passive diffusion system that utilizes no electronics, vapor or combustion. There's no nicotine, it's not addictive, it's non toxic flavors. It is a guilt free alternative plus no batteries so you never need to even charge it. Fume has served over 300,000 customers and you can be the next success story for a limited time. Use my code Morbid to get a free gift with your journey pack head to try fume.com that's try f u m.com and use code morbid to get a free gift with your order today. So despite the incredible community wide search effort and the considerable reward for information which at that point had reached nearly $100,000.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

Three weeks passed with no new leads, no new evidence, nothing. Then in the early morning hours of November 24, 2016, a driver on Interstate 5 in Yolo county spotted what appeared to be a young woman standing on the side of a rural road trying to flag him down. And this was about 150 miles from Reading.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

So the driver pulled over and was stunned to find that the woman who was still bound at the wrists and looked like she had been severely beaten was none other than Sherry Papini.

[Elena]

I remember this.

[Ash]

It's so weird. I don't remember this at all. I remember this and I was like out of high school. I literally don't remember this in any way.

[Elena]

I remember it. And I remember everyone probably including myself at the time, thinking when I was watching it, like, the husband did it.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like immediately you thought it.

[Ash]

You do automatically.

[Elena]

And it's like, yeah. And then later you're like, what an. For thinking that.

[Ash]

Damn.

[Elena]

But yeah, it was. It was a wild news story.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Because when she was found, it was like, whoa. And then things started happening and you were like, whoa.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

What is going on?

[Ash]

Because that really never happens. Like, obviously, like very rarely does it happen. You and far between. And then when somebody does get recovered and like, they still can't find the people that did it.

[Elena]

And it was how it was her immediate and we'll obviously get to it. But her description of her attackers immediately I think went, huh, huh.

[Ash]

That's weird. Her immediate description of her attackers and then they dig into her past and her opinions.

[Elena]

Exactly. And that's why it went, huh?

[Ash]

Yeah, we'll get there. Yeah. Trigger warning right up here for racism.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So the driver immediately, obviously called the California highway patrol to report the discovery, and officers were at the scene within minutes. They quickly requested backup for what they described as a woman who was, quote, unquote, heavily battered. And she was.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

In his statement to the press, the sheriff said, we are very ecstatic to report that Sherri Papini has been located and has been reunited with her husband and family on this day of Thanksgiving. I am happy to say that Sherry is now safe and that she has been treated at an area hospital outside of Shasta county for non life threatening injuries. So at the time, the sheriff's office had little to say in the way of details telling reporters just that Sherry's injuries were non life threatening. Authorities were now on the lookout for a, quote, dark colored SUV with two Hispanic females armed with a handgun. In the days that followed, small details about the case started to emerge via the sheriff's office. Sherry had been discovered a, quote, short amount of time after being dropped off by her captors, according to the sheriff. But he added, there is sensitive information that is being withheld at this time that I'm not able to put out. And please respect this until such time when we're able to make an arrest and bring these criminals to justice. And Sherry's abduction. So there was a lot that they were working on at this point that they were keeping close to the chest.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But by the end of the month, the family had put out a press release detailing some of the information yet to be released to the Media. In the three weeks since her abduction, Sherry had dropped to 87 pounds.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

And was, quote, covered in multi colored bruises, severe burns, red rashes and chain markings.

[Elena]

Which sounds horrific.

[Ash]

Absolutely. And you would never, in your mind, think that somebody would be able to create those injuries on their own.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Just like willingly.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But according to her husband, Keith, Sherry had, quote, suffered incredibly through intense physical agony and severe mental torture. Among other things. Her hair had been cut off. She had been branded with the word exodus, like, genuinely literally branded. And she told police that she believed it was a reference to the bible. And in addition to her other injuries, the bridge of her nose had been broken.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

So she, like, she had any part of her body that was visible was injured.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And just. And also, like, her hair being cut off, like, that's so psychologically fucked. Like.

[Elena]

Yeah. Horrifying.

[Ash]

In his statement, Keith said nothing could have prepared me for what I was about to see upon my arrival at the hospital, Nor the details of the true hell I was about to hear. The mental prison I was in over the past three weeks was shattered when my questions of my wife's reality became known.

[Elena]

That's like, I can't imagine seeing the person you love like that and thinking about what they've gone through for three weeks.

[Ash]

Think about in the three weeks that Sherry's been gone. I'm sure all Keith is doing is imagining what's happening. Oh, her and where she is and who has her. And his mind is probably coming up with all these up scenarios while trying to be a parent, while trying to still take care of his two little kids, by the way, these kids were little. And then he walks into the hospital and sees her and it confirms, like, probably all night were true.

[Elena]

Yeah. So I can't imagine.

[Ash]

Horrific. So while most people were happy to learn that Sherry had returned home safely, some found her safe return to be a bit suspicious. For one thing, there appeared to be no motive for the abduction. To hear the story as Sherry told it and as it would be repeated by the sheriff and family members, she was abducted by, quote, two Hispanic female adults who, quote, spoke Spanish the majority of the time of her captivity and concealed their faces in an attempt to hide their identities from her. So according to the sheriff's office, these were the only known abductors. But when it came to a motive, the sheriff said, we still do not have a motive as to the reason why Ms. Papini was taken. We do not know if she was a specific target or if this was a random abduction, because it's like, they.

[Elena]

Weren'T asking for ransom.

[Ash]

They weren't asking for ransom, so they.

[Elena]

Just abducted her to hold her and beat the shit out of her for a few weeks and then let drop her on the side of the road.

[Ash]

Like, why?

[Elena]

And, like, not like, that's. Like, that's. I'm not saying that, like, people aren't fucked and people don't just do them. We cover cases all the time where people do things just to do horrible things.

[Ash]

There's a case that I'm going to reference in a minute here where, like, that very thing did happen. So I think that's also why the police weren't really saying, like, okay, this.

[Elena]

Is impossible when they can't. Like, they. They have to explore every avenue. And you're right, they have. There's got to be at least a slight precedent to be like, okay, this is possible.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

Is it a little out of the realm of, you know, likely?

[Ash]

Definitely.

[Elena]

But we got to look at it.

[Ash]

We can't investigate it like, it didn't.

[Elena]

Happen because, again, what if that is what happened? You don't want to be sitting there being like, you're lying, like, you know what I mean? And find out that this is really what happened. This person is traumatized from it.

[Ash]

The police in this case absolutely did their due diligence. Like, absolutely. But lack of motive was not the only reason people were suspicious. There was also what many people perceived, and you kind of hinted at it earlier to be an overemphasis on the kidnappers race.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

In a case surprisingly light on details and evidence and one where the kidnappers wore masks or obscured their identities, otherwise, there was an unusual focus on their Racial characteristics. Through the course of their investigation, reporters discovered multiple blog posts apparently written by Sheri in 2007, where she, quote, made racist comments about Latinos, among other things.

[Elena]

Ding, ding.

[Ash]

In one post, she wrote, I used to come home in tears because I was getting suspended from school all the time for defending myself against the Latinos. The chief problem was that I was drug free, white, and proud of my blood and heritage. This really irked a group of Latino girls which would constantly rag and attack me.

[Elena]

That right there tells you everything. But wait, saying I was drug free, white and proud of my blood and heritage? That screams a certain grouping of people who believe that.

[Ash]

Well, and she's about to call them out.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Post went on to say, being white is. Is more than just being aware of my skin, but standing behind skinheads who are always around in spirit as well and having pride for my country. Yeah.

[Elena]

If you were wondering whether she's an.

[Ash]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Elena]

There you go. Yeah.

[Ash]

Who the fuck takes to a blog post to write that? Well.

[Elena]

And what's very interesting to me is like, you were, you were so open about how racist you are and then you went and did this and decided to take it a step further. And it's like, babe, their job is to investigate your past. They're going to find out that you're racist against this group of people.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

You don't think they're going to question.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Elena]

Why you might be emphasizing the race of. And women.

[Ash]

Women specifically.

[Elena]

Because she specifically says this group of girls.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

But it's definitely girls. And then it happens to be two women of that particular group of people.

[Ash]

That is not likely.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

It's two women abduct another woman.

[Elena]

Exactly. It's like, could it happen again?

[Ash]

Totally.

[Elena]

Nobody's saying it couldn't. But we do have to put on our, like, logic hats here and say this doesn't happen a lot at all. Like, the precedent for this is tiny, tiny, tiny, minimal. Of course, if it ended up being true, then you go, wow, stick that in that precedent bucket and holy shit, we'll reference that later. But it's like they are looking at this and going, the fact that it's two women and she's already talked about girls, like a group of girls that were, like, being mean to her and that she didn't like, and she's so proud of being white and shit. Like, come on, come on.

[Ash]

Saying you're proud to be white is crazy. I just have to say it goes crazy. That's a fucking insane thing to say. And I'll move on now.

[Elena]

Okay. It's weird.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Elena]

Like, just be proud to be a good human.

[Ash]

Never have I ever been proud to be a white person. Like, what?

[Elena]

It's, it's. It's weird.

[Ash]

I'm proud of my Irish heritage. I'm proud of my Scottish heritage. I'm not proud to be a white person.

[Elena]

That's the thing. That's exactly how I feel. I am super proud of having Scottish heritage and Irish heritage. I. I'm proud of my 1.4% Italian heritage.

[Ash]

I'm jealous of your Italian heritage.

[Elena]

But, like, to be like, I am proud to be white, like, fucking crazy. I'm just proud that I have this very interesting heritage that I can look back on.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And discover and research and take, you know, recipes from and like, you know, like cool legends and folklore.

[Ash]

To each their own to bring.

[Elena]

Like, it's just a straight. It's a strange thing to, like, point at and be like, I am proud.

[Ash]

I don't understand. I do not understand. Also very weird saying that skinheads are always around in spirit. Does that mean Sherry? Does that mean Sherry? I hope not.

[Elena]

I'm glad I don't understand Sherry.

[Ash]

I don't ever want to understand her.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But anyway, she said so. She said all that. And then in her post recovery interview with the FBI, she's continued to seem very focused on the ethnic aspects of her abductor's appearance. She told one agent, the smaller one had dark curly hair that's kind of short and so curly that if she didn't put product in there, it would probably be really frizzy.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

Wow. What the fuck is that going to mean to that arrest? Look out for a girl with frizzy.

[Elena]

Hair who uses product. So it's not. I love that she's literally like, it wasn't frizzy, but I bet if she didn't put product in it, it would be a fucking mess. So look out for that girl. Like, what are you talking about?

[Ash]

Okay. Asshole. Like, cool. Microaggression.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

She also describes their clothing in racially coded and overtly classist terms, saying their, quote, brown shoes looked like guest knockoffs.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

And they wore, quote, those big hoop earrings and had thin, almost drawn in eyebrows.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

Like, you're an. You know how many things we could say to describe you, Sherry?

[Elena]

Well, that's. I'm like bold.

[Ash]

Really, really bold of you.

[Elena]

I won't, I won't say because I'm not an.

[Ash]

But I'm thinking it.

[Elena]

But bold of you.

[Ash]

Super duper Bold.

[Elena]

That's all I'm gonna say.

[Ash]

Anyway, given the lack of evidence and the overtly racist comments that Cherry had made in the past, some people suggested, hey, maybe this entire kidnapping was a hoax, deliberately planned to demonize the Latino community in Northern California.

[Elena]

Maybe. And that's. That's the thing here. It's like, in situations where it's like somebody has had, like, you know, a mental health break and there's been like, some thing that you're like, okay, they perpetuated this idea or something like this, and. And they went too far. Like, we've had cases like that. Of course, I can't point to one right now because I haven't had enough coffee, but you know where, like, you can sit there and you can look at it and go, okay, like, I can at least have some sympathy for what this person was going through at some point.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

This case you just.

[Ash]

Zero.

[Elena]

Can't find sympathy in my heart. One, for a racist. And two, I can't find sympathy in my heart for someone who wastes the resources of an entire community.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

And traumatizes her own young family.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

For what?

[Ash]

Her family.

[Elena]

Like, I can't find sympathy for that.

[Ash]

Her husband.

[Elena]

So that's why we are like, she's such an. Like, she is, in my opinion, I think she's an asshole. I think this entire thing to traumatize your family and loved ones like this. And again, to suck on the resources of a community that needs them, that needs these resources and have bigger fish to fry and to like, to take money from people and time from people and emotional, like, allowances from people who are, like, putting them into this whole thing because they care.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

And just because they're. They're a good, tight knit community. That's so.

[Ash]

It is. And I can't get.

[Elena]

So, like, you're an emotional vampire and it's like, that's shitty.

[Ash]

And like, we'll get there. But spoiler alert, if you somehow don't know this case. She was, like, watching the news.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah, she saw.

[Ash]

She was watching what's going on. Her family. That's why I television.

[Elena]

I can't.

[Ash]

Like, that's how I could, like, even just think. I could never look at Drew on television, like, begging me to come home and be like, no.

[Elena]

And just be like, oh, my God, hilarious.

[Ash]

You want to throw another hockey?

[Elena]

Yeah. Like, let's wait a couple of days. Like, no. And again, if you somehow find sympathy for this person in your heart, that's like, totally your. Yeah.

[Ash]

You're a Better person.

[Elena]

Your prerogative. And you're probably a better person. And, like, you know, that's fine.

[Ash]

Yeah. But everybody's allowed to have their own opinion.

[Elena]

Yeah, I don't.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And I'm not going to.

[Ash]

And you're allowed to give your sympathy where you see fit.

[Elena]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ash]

I have sympathy for the fact that, like, I'm sure she's very mentally ill. Like, I absolutely have sympathy for, like, whatever is going on in her mental. That's fucked.

[Elena]

Yeah, for sure.

[Ash]

But it's like, when you talk about insanity versus mental illness, I don't think she's insane. I think she's mentally ill. I still think she knew what she was doing was wrong and she's racist. She's.

[Elena]

She literally did all this, like, partially to demonize an entire community of people.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Elena]

That's like, not mental illness. That's just evil.

[Ash]

That's like 100 evil.

[Elena]

That's why I can't find the. I got nothing.

[Ash]

I don't blame you. I feel like the mental illness comes into play with, like, the injuries. Like, I think you have to be. Yeah. Mentally ill to do what this woman did.

[Elena]

Yeah, but it doesn't take away the.

[Ash]

But. No, I.

[Elena]

Absolute evil that's going on around there. I completely agree with you, too.

[Ash]

Completely agree with you.

[Elena]

I agree with you.

[Ash]

I agree with you.

[Elena]

We're like, good point.

[Ash]

Hell, yeah.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Support. So in response to everybody saying this was a great hoax, Keith Papini told a reporter, those people should be ashamed of their malicious, subhuman behavior. We are not going to allow those people to take away our spirit, love or rejoice in our girl found alive and home where she belongs. I understand why people want the story, pictures, proof that this was not some sort of hoax plan to gain money or some fabricated race war. And it's like. You understand why he's saying that's disgusting?

[Elena]

Of course.

[Ash]

Because it would be disgusting if that. And he can't fathom that she did that. Exactly.

[Elena]

And of course, why would you.

[Ash]

You would hope and pray that the woman that you married and procreated with could not be that evil. Yeah, exactly. Could not be capable of something like this. And the sheriff's office was similarly supportive of Sherry and the Papini family at that point, saying, we currently have no reason to disbelieve Sherry Papini's story. She was assaulted and had injuries which she's been treated for.

[Elena]

I think that was the main thing that everybody held on to, that you couldn't fathom somebody allowing Themselves to be hurt that way.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Or hurting themselves that way. You're like, there's no way.

[Ash]

Branded, broken nose, hair cut off, bruised beyond. If you see pictures of her, yeah. She like she beat the shit out of herself and had help beating herself. It's crazy.

[Elena]

It's un believable.

[Ash]

And, and like she wasn't eating. So she lost weight. Like when I say drop down to £87. That you can't even picture that.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

You think of like your tiniest friend. They are not that tiny.

[Elena]

Exactly.

[Ash]

That's crazy.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So while those who questioned the legitimacy of Sherry's claims were far outnumbered by her supporters, skepticism did continue to grow in the days that followed, particularly as information remained vague and everyone involved was very tight lipped. The investigation then was further hampered by Keith Papini, who in an effort to disprove the skeptics, released details to the media. Sheriff Pasenko said, I did not know he was going to release this until a short time before I did a media media interview. I think with some of the details he has provided, it could affect the integrity of the investigation.

[Elena]

Oops.

[Ash]

Which is not great.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because the sheriff had hoped to keep the few details that they did know about the abductors quiet until they narrowed in on a suspect. And they felt that Keith's rush to defend his wife pretty much compromised their case if luckily they didn't technically have a case.

[Elena]

Yeah, luckily it really wasn't for anybody.

[Ash]

But if they were, it could have it.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But you also understand why he wants to rush to defend. Of course, you can see both sides. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, you just don't bounce back the next day like you used to. You have to make a choice. Either have a great night or a great next day. Actually, that was until I heard about ZBiotics, pre alcohol. And now I don't have to choose. Their probiotic was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gutter. It's this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough next day. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. This is a proactive solution that wards off feeling miserable the next day. Instead of a reactive approach like drinking electrolytes or eating greasy food. I used to be a girly that would stop for, you know, something disgusting and greasy to cure my next day, if you will. I kept hearing about pre alcohol though and I actually wondered what it was actually like. And now that I've tried it, I genuinely believe the hype. Go to zbiotics.commorbid to learn more and get 15% off your order when you use Morbid at checkout. Zbiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantee so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com morbid and use the code morbid at checkout for 15% off. Thank you ZBiotics for sponsoring this episode and our good times. As a parent, you never want to sacrifice quality for convenience, yet so many baby and kid food options today just don't meet the mark. That's why I personally love Little Spoon. They deliver healthy, ready to eat meals and snacks that your baby, toddler or even your big kid will love and that you can actually feel good about. All of their products are junk free, organic where it counts, non GMO and thoughtfully sourced. They really know what parents want today and they make it so easy. They have an amazing variety of baby blends, puffs, biteables, plates, smoothies, lunchers and snacks. I personally love the snacks. They are actually pretty delicious. Alina's kids eat them and then I steal them from the pantry and they're convenient, delicious and awesome. Did I mention that it all comes right to Elena's door? So flexible, so easy and everything stores right in the fridge or the freezer. Elena picks the menu and you can change up what you order every time. The price is right, the quality is unmatched. Elena loves it, her kids love it, the grandparents love it. I love it. It's a huge win, win win for her family and it can be for yours. Simplify your kiddos meal time with 30% off your first order. Go to little spoon.commorbid30 and enter our code morbid30 at checkout to get 30% off your first Little Spoon order. But despite the sheriff's attempts to quell the growing interest and debate over the legitimate legitimacy of the claims, skepticism about Cherry's kidnapping just kept on growing. Yep, in certain ways. Experts on the matter found this to be entirely reasonable, if not expected, given the lack of details and the outright just strangeness of the claims being made. For instance, there aren't that many reasons why an adult would be kidnapped, and if any of them result in the abductor just letting the person go without having achieved some kind of objective a.

[Elena]

Ransom of some sort or Something.

[Ash]

Yeah, like you don't really see a case where they just let you go to let you go. It happens, but it's.

[Elena]

But like, maybe worse to find a handful of cases like that.

[Ash]

I don't even think there is a handful that I know about, at least. But also, Sherry had said that she was abducted by two women, which is an extremely, like I said, rare occurrence. Former FBI agent Mary Ellen O'Toole said women don't commit these kinds of crimes because it involves an element of predatory behavior. But those same experts also caution the media to keep an open mind about the case. O'Toole also told a reporter, I've had some pretty bizarre but righteous cases where people look at it and say that didn't happen even when it did. And, yeah, absolutely happens all the time. And Kenneth Ryan, a professor of criminology at Fresno State, echoed O tools sentiment, saying, I know of no other cases like this, but that does not mean it's not legitimate.

[Elena]

Exactly. There's always precedent comes from somewhere.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

So.

[Ash]

And speaking of precedent, in addition to the handful of experts who also cautioned people to remain open minded, several members of the press were quick to point to the 2015 kidnapping of Denise Huskins in Vallejo, California. There weren't many similarities in the details of the cases, but in the Huskins case, her kidnapper abducted her from a home she shared with her boyfriend, held her captive for several days, and then just released her.

[Elena]

Yeah. And that's shocking.

[Ash]

Which was crazy. And initially the police concluded that the entire kidnapping was a hoax, and they actually treated her and her man terribly. Like, it's rough to watch. But they then had to retract their statement once evidence conclusively proved that she had, in fact been kidnapped and sexually assaulted by Matthew Mueller, a former lawyer suffering from a very serious mental illness. At that point. Holy really good docu series on the case. It's called American Nightmare on Netflix. Jarring.

[Elena]

That's horrifying.

[Ash]

Genuinely terrifying. It will have you buying a security system immediately. Do you know anything about that case?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Fucked. But so to point that that can happen.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

You know, where the. There's details that vary with Sherry having been abducted by two women versus, like, a man who could overpower her.

[Elena]

Well, that's. That's the other. There's like, differences here where it's like a man abducted a woman, sexually assaulted.

[Ash]

Her, and let her go the middle of the night.

[Elena]

Yeah. And it's like, but this is two women. And, like, then they just, like, beat the shit out of her and let her go.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

Like, I don't know exactly, you know?

[Ash]

Now the other bizarre part of Sheri's story was the surprising sum of money that had actually been offered up in exchange for her safe return, even though the kidnappers never asked for money in addition to the original sum offered as a reward. In the early days of the investigation, an anonymous donor offered $100,000 as a reverse ransom for Sherry. Safe return.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

The donor refused to identify themselves and communicated only through an intermediary. Who was Cameron Gamble, a local security contractor. But like, that was. That was huge.

[Elena]

Huge that a one anonymous donor put up that much money.

[Ash]

$100,000, like, that's a lot of money. Family friend Lisa Jeter said. I mean, who offers five or six figures to find someone they've never met?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Yet she and others were still convinced of the donor's intentions being good. And as he put it, quote, the hands of God had been put on my heart to find Papini. So that's just like a good ass person.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Cameron Gamble even went on television to announce the offer of money to the kidnappers. But as it turned out, the offer was unnecessary because Sherry soon showed up in Yolo county and no kidnappers ever contacted anyone to set up any kind of money drop or anything like that.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Who in their right mind abducts a woman, period, but then abducts a woman, tortures her for a few days, and then doesn't collect a reverse ransom of when it's thousand dollars?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You would at least think that some kind of money drop would be set.

[Elena]

Up or at least attempted.

[Ash]

You know, that's what I mean.

[Elena]

Like, I can understand if they were like freaked out because they were like, this could clearly be a sting to.

[Ash]

Get us, but to not even, not.

[Elena]

Even have any, any kind of communication about it. I don't know that. I don't know.

[Ash]

That just doesn't happen in my mind. I don't know. So by the end of the year, the public was eager for any details on the case. But both the family and law enforcement officials had nothing more to give. In January 2017, Cherry's sister told a reporter, we would just appreciate our time to heal in privacy. And the sheriff's office also had little to say to the press in the months that followed other than the standard response. Bosenko insisted to the public that, quote, the investigation is still ongoing. It's a priority case. We're still being assisted by the FBI in the case. We're waiting for some evidence to be Processed by the California department of justice. Now, by the end of 2017, little had changed, but skepticism surrounding the whole ordeal had grown somewhat stronger. We're getting more and more skeptics on this. In October 2017, the Sheriff's Department released a sketch of the suspects based on Sherry's descriptions, as well as a recording of Keith's call to 911 to report Sherry missing. And they hoped that these would generate some kind of new lead or evidence. But literally nothing came from them.

[Elena]

Because they weren't real people.

[Ash]

Because they were not real people. And the same was true of the surveillance video released a month later showing Sherry emerged from the woods along the side of i5 in Yolo county, which also. I want to live in yolo County. And I just.

[Elena]

Yolo County. Yeah.

[Ash]

That's hilarious. In late December, law enforcement officials released a statement to the press saying, we're still reviewing stuff with the case, and then obviously, if appropriate, and if it's going to help identify the suspects, then we'll release more information. But we have no plans for anything to be released in the coming months.

[Elena]

So frustrating.

[Ash]

So everybody was like, okay, like, I guess we'll just never know what happened here, because eventually one year passed to the next, and there was never any additional information, never additional details released about the case. And then the family just receded from the public spotlight. But that.

[Elena]

Which would make sense.

[Ash]

Which, yeah, you would expect they would want their privacy. But that didn't stop the speculation and, of course, the online arguments about the case, with many people now more convinced than ever that the kidnapping had been a hoax. Because when you're not finding the people and there's no leads whatsoever, none, like, no motive, obviously, cases go cold, like, of course, that kind of thing, but there's no motive. You can't find any suspects. Where's the evidence?

[Elena]

You got that. That racist connection, like, that's the thing. Something's wrong.

[Ash]

And that was sitting heavy with investigators. They were like. They really clung on to that, rightfully.

[Elena]

Because if you're not finding these people, sounds like they're made up.

[Ash]

And that's when you go back to that blog post and you start digging for some more. So while supporters and skeptics sparred with one another on social media, because that is the way of life, the sheriff's office continued investigating the case. But after repeatedly coming up empty, they actually passed the case to the FBI in early 2020. By that time, Sherry Papini had received more than $30,000 in aid from the California victims compensation board. Damn the fact that collected and that wasn't the only amount of money that she received. She got money from GoFundMe's and, oh, yeah, like, you know, charity organizations, but this one from the victims compensation board. $30,000. And you just accept that and spend it.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

Thinking you're entitled to it.

[Elena]

This is the same person that sat and watched her family beg for her safe return and still sat there and let it all go.

[Ash]

Do you have a conscience? Yeah, I think some people just don't.

[Elena]

That's the thing. I'm like, there's something wrong there that you don't have any kind like that you were to perpetuate this for so long.

[Ash]

Yeah. So fortunately, with their superior resources and larger reach, the FBI was able to achieve what the Shasta County Sheriff's Office hadn't. They managed to get to the truth. And that's why we're sitting here today.

[Elena]

Talking about this FB eye.

[Ash]

That's why we're calling Sherry. An don't worry. If you don't know the case, you will soon find out what an she is.

[Elena]

I mean, already there was some pieces of evidence we've given you that that should be showing you that.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly. But. But even more of an in the absence of any new evidence, FBI agents turned to Sherry's past, and they discovered that she wasn't always the super mom she was described as in the wake of her disappearance. In an interview with her first husband, she'd been married before. She married him in 2006 so she could, quote, qualify for health insurance. They learned that Cherry had a long history of lying and fabricating stories, and many referred to her as being, quote, unquote, attention hungry.

[Elena]

Ah, there it is.

[Ash]

The ex husband also told investigators that Cherry had, quote, fabricated stories about being the victim of abuse. According to another friend from her past, Sherry was, quote, good at creating different realities for people so that they would see what she wanted them to see, which got her really good attention. And while the kidnapping case might have seemed like a pretty extreme length to go to in order to get some kind of attention, many people who knew Sherry and knew her especially when she was younger wouldn't have been surprised to learn that she had gone that far.

[Elena]

Which is unbelievable if people are saying they wouldn't be surprised if you would go this far. Whoa.

[Ash]

That, like, whoa. When you think of every, like, how far she truly went and people. She branded her. She was branded for people to be like. People to be like, yeah, she probably could have done probably.

[Elena]

It's like, whoa.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Elena]

You have a history, my friend.

[Ash]

She sure does. In 2003, she ran away from home and filed a police report falsely accusing her own parents of physical abuse.

[Elena]

Yeah, so this is a.

[Ash]

It was determined.

[Elena]

This is a pathology here.

[Ash]

And she had also said that past boyfriends were violent with her when, like, they were not. There was evidence to prove that they were not. She. She lied about being a victim of abuse many, many times.

[Elena]

Yeah. Which is up.

[Ash]

Which is up. So the deeper agents dug into Sherry's history, the more they started to question just how happy this supposed super mama really was. According to phone records, she had been keeping in regular contact with her ex boyfriend, Sean Reyes, as recently as 2015. And they frequently used phone cards and burner phones to communicate.

[Elena]

That's not shady.

[Ash]

As sketchy as it was through an interview with Race that the real story of Sherry's quote, unquote kidnapping finally came into focus.

[Elena]

This shows you. You don't know anybody.

[Ash]

Like, damn, you don't know anybody.

[Elena]

Like, the whole community saw her as the super mom, happy wife, everything. Yeah, I'm telling. And in the age of social media, you don't know anyone. Remember that. You don't remember that.

[Ash]

You are seeing a curated version of everyone's life.

[Elena]

You're seeing a character 100 and that's. I've seen so many instances of that recently on social media where, like, things are happening and like, people find these layer are like, oh, this person is not what I thought they were.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And it's like, yeah, you don't know anyone.

[Ash]

No. If you don't know people personally and deeply, you don't.

[Elena]

And the sooner you realize that and, like, are happy with that boundary being there, the better this will all be. Because I think people are putting way too much into social media.

[Ash]

I think so. Definitely.

[Elena]

That's my little soapbox. I'll get off it now.

[Ash]

But according to Ray, Sherry called him on November 2, 2016 and asked him if he could come pick her up and if she could stay with him for a while. In a statement to the FBI, Ray's cousin confirmed that he had seen Cherry at. At Rey's apartment on at least two occasions. Ray's told agents, Sherry said that, quote, her husband was beating and raping her and she was trying to escape and that she had filed police reports, but the police were not doing anything to stop her husband's abuse, which sounds horrific. So of course he was like, yeah, you can come stay with me now. While she was there staying with him, she concocted that fake kidnapping hoax. In order to avoid having to explain where she had been and the entire time she was there, she, quote, harmed herself to support her false claims. Wow. While she was there, she, like, stopped eating. Like, she ate very minimally. And he was like, oh, like, can I make you. Can I make you anything?

[Elena]

Didn't she have, like, a banana?

[Ash]

She would, yeah, she would literally just have, like, a banana. She, He. She asked him to, like, hit a hockey puck off her face, bank a.

[Elena]

Hockey puck off her leg.

[Ash]

It literally. That's exactly how they said it in the documentary. Bank a hockey puck off her leg.

[Elena]

And this guy's just like, okay.

[Ash]

And I think the way they broke her nose was. I think a hockey stick was involved.

[Elena]

I think you're right. Yeah.

[Ash]

And like a closet door or something like that.

[Elena]

It was, yeah.

[Ash]

I mean, wild.

[Elena]

Talk about folly. Ado. Damn.

[Ash]

Yeah. So after about three weeks of just staying there, doing all that wild, Raze had a friend rent a car for him, and he drove Sherry out to that rural spot on i5 where she was found on the morning of November 24, 2016. A check of the rental car's odometer log confirmed that the vehicle had traveled the distance between Rey's apartment and the drop off spot in Yolo County.

[Elena]

It's those little things I love when it comes down to these little things. I'm always like, damn.

[Ash]

Yup. Damn. Forensics and his story also explained the unidentified DNA on Cherry's clothes when she reappeared, which was tested and later confirmed to belong to Sean.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

So she was just having a grand old time.

[Elena]

So she. To be clear, she bullshitted this entire thing, the entire. To hang out with a boyfriend.

[Ash]

Yep. An ex boyfriend.

[Elena]

An ex boyfriend. Up.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

Remember, she has two young children.

[Ash]

Literally two little, like. Remember young babes, like teeny, tiny babes. Left them at daycare.

[Elena]

Unconscionable.

[Ash]

No, I can't imagine.

[Elena]

And then watched on TV as her husband cried and begged for her safe return.

[Ash]

Her parents. Her parents, her sister, her friends, everybody that loved her.

[Elena]

Watch the community go to all these lengths. Watch the cops talk about how much resources they were putting into it. Watch that dollar amount go up and up and up of people donating out of the goodness of their hearts and.

[Ash]

Somehow, like, fed off of that. Like, it wasn't like, oh, fuck, what have I done?

[Elena]

But what you should take from this is not, wow, People are the biggest shitheads in the entire world. No one person is the biggest shithead in the entire world. But look at the other side of it. An entire fucking community of people showed everybody what humanity is like. That's the thing to take from this is. And they all said, we do it again.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, we thought someone was missing. We thought one of our own was missing.

[Ash]

That's our community.

[Elena]

That's our community. It's like that. Take that away from it. That, like, most people in the world.

[Ash]

Are gonna do that. Yes.

[Elena]

Like, these are the ones that you just suss out and you say, fuck off.

[Ash]

And you. And you sit there and you wonder how people are even capable of existing.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like Sherry Papini.

[Elena]

Like, the toxic waste dump. That must be her soul.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, talk about a trashed soul. Like, it's. She is a trashed soul.

[Ash]

She scares me. Yeah. What scares me is I also feel like I, like, know people like her.

[Elena]

Yeah. And she's not happy. Nobody who does this kind of shit is a happy person.

[Ash]

No, not at all.

[Elena]

Like, nobody who's an asshole, being a dick to other people, and, like, taking up other people's time, like, ruining people's days doing whatever, is a happy person.

[Ash]

No, not.

[Elena]

They're always miserable.

[Ash]

So in August 2020, agents interviewed Cherry again and laid out the evidence that they discovered and warned her at the top of the interview that it was a crime to lie to the FBI.

[Elena]

So they're like, here's your time.

[Ash]

However, Sherry, quote, did not retract her kidnapping story and insist and instead continued to make false statements about her purported abductors and denied her ex boyfriend's involvement. They sat there and they said, we tested the male DNA that they found on you. It's Shawn's. And she sat there and acted shocked and said, sean would never do that to me. It can't be him.

[Elena]

And, like, literally started to cry, like, she was just having a revelation about.

[Ash]

Like, oh, my God, it couldn't have been him. No, no. No way. No.

[Elena]

Meanwhile, she had been staying with him for weeks. She literally sits talking to him on burner.

[Ash]

You can watch. You guys got to go watch. Watch the interviews because they're so deeply disturbing. And I feel so bad because her husband is with her when they confront her. And if anybody ever thought that he was involved in it, seeing his reaction when they tell him, when they tell hello, he is blindsided.

[Elena]

I feel so sad for that guy. Yeah, it really is sad.

[Ash]

But unfortunately. Oh, and then another thing. And if you watch the documentary on Hulu, you'll see it. She had perfectly described where she was being contained, and it was this very specific closet that she kept Talking about. And when they went to her boyfriend's, her ex boyfriend's house, he had that exact closet. And they were like, nobody else would have had the closet that she. No, it was like a very specifically made. Like, there were certain, like pipes and wires and stuff went to certain places. And they were like, what are the fucking odds that that's the exact closet system?

[Elena]

The. In the fact that she described his closet. Why didn't even make something. You lied about everything else. Why are you giving the exact closet?

[Ash]

Like, I'm glad that you did. Because it got us to here. And also she. And this is the scary thing about Sherry Papini. She sat there in that interview room when they said, we ran the DNA testing and it matches your ex boyfriend Sean Ray's. And she said, no, no, it can't be him. You have. You have to check it again. There's no way it could be him. Yeah, she thought that she could get the upper hand there and convince them otherwise on DNA.

[Elena]

She wanted them to rerun. That's like saying, can you crunch those numbers again?

[Ash]

No, it's DNA.

[Elena]

Like, no, if it's hitting on a person that's involved, it's the person. We didn't crunch the numbers wrong like that. It's a. Like, what?

[Ash]

This is forensics.

[Elena]

This is DNA. Hello. This is deoxyribonucleic acid. You're not gonna get out of here.

[Ash]

What the. Like, what? But just the fact that she thought. But that she's that diabolical. That she was like, let me give this a shot.

[Elena]

Because she's gone her whole life manipulating. And I think she was like, well, this is my magnum opus.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

And I can definitely keep this going. I just have to try harder. And it's like, no, babe, no, babe, DNA does not lie. You cannot manipulate DNA. No, it's just not gonna happen.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

And we got the odometer telling us the exact distance.

[Ash]

The odometer, the closet, the. They even found. And if, again, if you watch the documentary, you'll find this out. She had saved to her Pinterest board wood, like wood burning tools.

[Elena]

Oh, my God, yes, you're right.

[Ash]

Which she then used to brand herself with the word Exodus. She had saved those to her Pinterest board.

[Elena]

This. This Pinterested her own kidnapping hoax.

[Ash]

Literally.

[Elena]

That's a level of diabolical and also just completely like dulu that you can't even comprehend.

[Ash]

And the malice of for out there the most plan your own branding the most. Hello?

[Elena]

Yeah, hello is right.

[Ash]

Hello. Actually, Goodbye is right. Goodbye, Sherry.

[Elena]

Goodbye.

[Ash]

But not goodbye yet. So unfortunately, the onset of the COVID 19 pandemic really, really hampered agents ability to aggressively pursue this case.

[Elena]

Rona really fucked us.

[Ash]

Yeah, but don't worry, we got there. In early March 2022. They were able to get a warrant for Sherry's arrest based on the evidence and statements from her boyfriend. Sean Ray is there, her ex boyfriend, thank goodness. In addition to being charged with lying to the FBI, Sherry was also charged with mail fraud stemming from her receipt of more than $30,000 in victim assistance money from state agencies, which carried a combined sentence of up to 25 years in prison if she were to be convicted.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

And she should have got that.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

On March 3, 2022, Sacramento FBI agents were staked outside of Sherry's neighborhood, hoping that they'd be able to stop her when she drove. Like maybe going on some kind of errand without the kids. They were really hoping to not get.

[Elena]

Her in front of the kids.

[Ash]

Yeah, they really were trying to avoid that. And they thought that they had her when she peeled out of the neighborhood and she started toward downtown Redding. But then they realized that the kids were with her and they were headed to some kind of music class, like she was dropping them off. So once they were sure that they. They like, had to redo their plan really quickly. So once they were sure that Sherry was inside the building, they sent an agent in to tell her that somebody had hit her car outside. Oh yeah, hoping they could get her outside without alerting the kids. So she like, lost her and ran out. And unfortunately when she ran out, her kids followed her because she had made such a scene, she like screamed about it. So they her, they witnessed the arrest take place, which is really sad. Hey, morbid listeners, Etsy knows what kind of holiday gifting reactions you're looking for this year. You bought squeals of delight, happy tears, and spontaneously written songs of joy, right? Well, to get reactions like those, you need to make sure everyone on your list feels heard with handmade, handpicked and designed gifts from small shops on Etsy. Etsy makes it so simple to find original items that will make whoever you're shopping for feel extra, extra special. When they open that box, it will be love at first gift. The kind of love you can only get when a gift is truly thoughtful and perfect for that person. Shop Etsy this holiday season for personalized jewelry, custom artwork, cozy style items, vintage pieces, and home decor to celebrate all of your favorite people and their specific kind of special for original Gifts that say I get you. Etsy has it. She screamed no and actually tried to run away from the agents. Which like, I was like, where did you think you were going? One thing she has, it's self confidence and audacity. She believes in herself and audacity in abundance.

[Elena]

Like, where are you going?

[Ash]

Where are you going?

[Elena]

Where are you going?

[Ash]

You're hiding the piano.

[Elena]

The whole world knows who you are.

[Ash]

Like, where you going? Literally the entire world. Luckily, she was quickly subdued and handcuffed before being put in the back of the agent's car. And luckily also the kids piano teacher stayed with them and called Keith to let them know, let him know what was going on. She was like, hey, you have to come get the kids. They got Cherry. A few days later, the family re released a statement expressing outrage over the way in which the arrest was handled, saying we love Sherry and are appalled by the way in which law enforcement ambushed her on Thursday afternoon. Afternoon in a dramatic, unnecessary manner in front of her children.

[Elena]

I can understand.

[Ash]

I can too.

[Elena]

That's their children, you know, I mean, that's that family's babes.

[Ash]

I would be really upset if any kid that I love wouldn't absolutely.

[Elena]

Like, so I can fully understand that.

[Ash]

And they also didn't know that there was a completely different plan and that it just didn't work out.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So I'm sure they were thinking they.

[Elena]

Just did this to do it.

[Ash]

And I'm sure knowing that like retroactively, they're probably thankful that at least they tried to not involve children.

[Elena]

I can totally understand why they were same pissed 100%. Yeah.

[Ash]

Like outside of the kids music class.

[Elena]

That sucks. Yeah, that really does suck.

[Ash]

But the news of Sherry's arrest shocked friends and family and those around the country who were following the story. But not everyone was surprised by the arrest. A lot of people were shocked, but most there. There was a large group of people that were like reading local. Tim Scarborough said there was so much that questioned the validity of her story. I didn't believe it for a moment.

[Elena]

Good for you, Tim.

[Ash]

He had actually covered Cherry's story on his blog. But in the week in the wake of her mysterious return, he started to get suspicious of the inconsistencies and the various aspects that didn't make sense and his public skepticism. Actually he got a considerable backlash from people, I'm sure to the extent that he received like threats of violence.

[Elena]

I mean, because it's. It's hard. It's like you're publicly being suspicious of something that could go the other way.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And it's like, that can be a. Obviously, that would be awful.

[Ash]

That's not.

[Elena]

If you were saying, like, this is a hoax and then it turns out it's not. And they catch the people. And you know she went through this whole thing, right?

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Elena]

That's up. It's never okay to threaten violence against someone.

[Ash]

That's the thing. Like, you can disagree with someone who do that. Disagree. Normalize disagreements without saying hurt you physically.

[Elena]

It's cool. It's cool if you don't agree. Yeah, it's fine.

[Ash]

It's the way of the world.

[Elena]

Stop threatening everyone. My God.

[Ash]

People are just.

[Elena]

Everyone's got a chill.

[Ash]

Different day and age.

[Elena]

Everybody's just so angry. We gotta calm down.

[Ash]

Everybody is really. You need to calm down. What does she say after that? Yeah, it's Taylor Swift.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Ash]

You're being too loud.

[Elena]

So. Damn.

[Ash]

7:00Am Elena loves to say, Damn, it's 7:00am it's true. The Swifties are going crazy right now.

[Elena]

I love. I love that song.

[Ash]

It's a great song. I think it's funny, so. Other community members were outraged by the racist undertones of Sherry's story. Araceli Gutierrez, a business consultant who works.

[Elena]

That's a pretty name.

[Ash]

Gorgeous. Ariel is really pretty. I actually. I looked it up. I think it means something. I really like means something, but it means something pretty.

[Elena]

I was pretty sure, you know, there. While you look it up, there was this ash and I. I remember True Life on mtv. It was like, where it's at.

[Ash]

I miss True life all the time.

[Elena]

There was that. Respect my sect. Yes or no? It was I'm a witch. That's what it was. It was like, I'm a witch or Respect my sect. One of those.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And it was. It had that vampire cult that was in the other one. In it again. I think they were in at least two.

[Ash]

Yeah, I think you're right.

[Elena]

And Because I think it was like, I'm a vampire or something. True Life. I'm a vampire or something. And there was a girl named Aracel. Araceli, I think it was.

[Ash]

Oh, shit.

[Elena]

Who was a witch, but also was like a vampire as well.

[Ash]

Oh, you're right. I remember that episode. It seemed like. Such as.

[Elena]

Like such a sweet human. I just like putting it up. I remember hearing her name and I was like, oh, that's a beautiful name.

[Ash]

It's beautiful. And it has a meaning. It means altar of the sky or altar of heaven.

[Elena]

I love that.

[Ash]

And it comes from the Latin. Latin words. Ara meaning altar and selli meaning sky.

[Elena]

Oh, that's beautiful. It just like, feels as soon as you hear it, it's just like.

[Ash]

Oh. Feels very, like, whimsical.

[Elena]

It does, yeah. Certain names and, like, words just, like, when they come out, you feel like they, like they twinkle when they come out.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

That's crazy because I can see it. I'm like. I just feel it twinkling.

[Ash]

She, like, wiggled her fingers and then I said twinkle at the same time. That was awesome. That's.

[Elena]

So your name is Araceli? Your name Twinkle.

[Ash]

Your name twinkles. And me and Elena share a brain cell about it. Crazy. That's been happening a lot lately.

[Elena]

Yeah, that goes crazy. No, I'm just kidding.

[Ash]

Don't go away. But Araceli Gutierrez, she was a business consultant and she works with the Latino community in Northern California. And she said saying these two Hispanic women kidnapped her. And all the lies that came out of the story, it's just too much.

[Elena]

It absolutely is. I agree, Araceli.

[Ash]

And you think of, like, there is a huge Latino population and you probably.

[Elena]

You up their businesses as well.

[Ash]

Oh, my.

[Elena]

Because you put out this. And now all these people are probably being victimized because of your racist lies.

[Ash]

They absolutely were. There was like an uptick in threats and violence against the Latino.

[Elena]

And these, like, in these, like, Latino run businesses, these women, Latino loves run businesses. They're. They're the ones suffering from for your.

[Ash]

And that's why she wanted to do it.

[Elena]

Oh, it makes me so mad.

[Ash]

She literally, like, that was part of it.

[Elena]

It was so far reaching the. That she committed.

[Ash]

It really was. And given the timeline and the tone around the country, Gutierrez told reporters the Papini story just gave a lot of people reason to believe in Trump's rhetoric. It really sowed division.

[Elena]

And it's like, nobody should be sowing division.

[Ash]

No. Especially at that time.

[Elena]

Like, come on. Like, it's just unity, my friends.

[Ash]

Unity. Exactly.

[Elena]

We're all people. Let's just try to get it together.

[Ash]

Let's just try to do the best we can.

[Elena]

And don't up other people's businesses.

[Ash]

Don't fuck up other people. People's businesses. Don't be racist. Like, support small businesses. Lift up communities that are, like, you know, oppressed. Like, come on.

[Elena]

Yeah, come on. It's so much easier to do that.

[Ash]

And how much we've seen in history what happens when you're shitty to marginalized communities and when you don't.

[Elena]

So discord.

[Ash]

Like, why do we just continue to do it?

[Elena]

And it's also just kind of like. I know. We're just, we're like, guys, stop being dicks. I feel like people who listen to this show are beautiful souls.

[Ash]

So they're like, I'm not being a dick.

[Elena]

Yeah. Tell everybody that's ever that's being a dick. Like, don't. Like you're trashing your own soul.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

By doing that, you're trashing it.

[Ash]

It's true.

[Elena]

It's a waist dump soul. You want to twinkle like Araceli. Yeah.

[Ash]

You got to bring this soul to your next lifetime. It's got to be like clean.

[Elena]

And it's like the older you get, the more you realize that it's just like, damn, I said that. Everybody needs to show.

[Ash]

I'm like, you know, approaching the old age of 30. Yeah. And I'm just, I'm realizing time is limited.

[Elena]

No, it's true.

[Ash]

And I'm not trying to do with the time that I have here.

[Elena]

And you get, you know, you get more with honey.

[Ash]

Yes, it's true. Exactly.

[Elena]

Honey is a cure all.

[Ash]

I love honey. It tastes good and she lasts like so long.

[Elena]

There you go. Anyways, honey, we're really getting a little.

[Ash]

We're getting a little off.

[Elena]

Morbid in the morning.

[Ash]

Morbid in the morning. And I haven't had any coffee. According to the FBI affidavit, Sherry's emphasis on her supposed kidnappers ethnicity led to quote years of tip from Reading and the surrounding communities about suspicious looking Hispanic women.

[Elena]

And that's tragic. Yeah.

[Ash]

Like that were all the people that were just stereotyped.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And. And like harassed.

[Elena]

Yeah. And turned into a villain.

[Ash]

Yeah. When they're not. Other members of the community were simply just fucking angry that they'd been duped into expending an enormous number of resources on a woman who had never been in any real danger. Family friend Jane Atkins said she had us essentially on a witch hunt. There were numerous posts on local social media group pages of sightings of women who looked like the suspects or similar vehicle descriptions. Had a lot of women on edge.

[Elena]

And that's the thing. It's like, so she really didn't care because people get wily in these situations. And it's like she didn't give a shit if these. If innocent women that happened to match that description or God forbid, drove a similar car.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like people can go vigilante on people. Like it's happened. It's like, obviously you don't want it to happen, but it's like.

[Ash]

But they do.

[Elena]

People do it. And especially when there's like really big uproar in something, like you're being portrayed as this like, blonde mom, super mom, housewife that, like, just got snatched up by these evil Hispanic women. And it's like, so people are gonna go crazy. And it's like. And you just didn't care if innocent women were attacked on your behalf?

[Ash]

Well, because she's a racist.

[Elena]

Like, she just doesn't care.

[Ash]

She. Part of her wanted that to happen.

[Elena]

That's.

[Ash]

That's why she went over to me. That's boggling that two Hispanic women did this to her.

[Elena]

That's really mind boggling to me.

[Ash]

And it's like you said, she specifically said women, women.

[Elena]

Because she had a problem. She had claimed she had had a problem with girls in the past.

[Ash]

And it's like, all I'm thinking, because she was like, because I was drug free and proud to be white. Yeah, like, I would be proud of my blood. Proud to be white, but also like, because you were drug for. I'm. I'm not. Like, I have never witnessed in an act of bullying where some girls are angry because some girl is drug free and white.

[Elena]

Well, you know what that was. That was another. That was her putting another stereotype. They were drug addicts. That's what it is. Like, she's putting all the, all the racist rhetoric into one little, little sentence There.

[Ash]

Tiny blog posts like, me, I'm drug free.

[Elena]

But they couldn't be.

[Ash]

Nobody gets bullied for being drug free.

[Elena]

Gave a about.

[Ash]

Are you kidding? Are you kidding me? Others in Reading echoed the sentiment. Reading resident Aaron Friedman told a reporter, I was worried about her and her kids. It seemed like such a kick in the teeth of a community that didn't deserve to be treated like that. She stabbed our community in the back with every step she took.

[Elena]

Yes, Boom.

[Ash]

I think I put it perfectly.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But unfortunately, if anybody was waiting for any kind of reasonable explanation for Sher's behavior and lies, they were sorely disappointed. In a statement to the press, Sherry's lawyer, William Port Nova, said his client had a, quote, complicated mental health situation, I'll say, but one that has to be confronted and dealt with, and that includes admission and acceptance and punishment. As far as why she did what she did. Port Nova did not have that answer. He said, honestly, I don't know if anybody does. I don't know if she even. She knows.

[Elena]

And honestly, whatever explanation she would give would not be. I don't want to hear it anyway. No, it just because none of it is.

[Ash]

Is valid, maybe excuses for piss poor behavior.

[Elena]

The only excuse you would have is, I am devoid of humanity.

[Ash]

Literally.

[Elena]

That would literally be the only explanation that I'd be like, thank you.

[Ash]

I'd rather hear that.

[Elena]

Thank you for telling me that. Because that's really it. I'm devoid of anything. Good.

[Ash]

Sorry.

[Elena]

Sorry for that. That would be the only.

[Ash]

I'd be like, okay, that's full ownership right there. Yeah, well, she didn't do that. Whether she could explain herself or not, Sherry knew that there was no point in carrying on her protest, because still she was like, no, this really happened.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

But in early April 2022, she did agree to plead guilty. And she provided a documented confession in exchange for a reduced sentence, which I wish was never on the table.

[Elena]

The fact that she wouldn't. With. Confronted with all that evidence, she still. Still wouldn't admit it until she got something out of it.

[Ash]

Still. Wow. Yeah. In a statement released through her attorney, she said, I am deeply ashamed of myself for my behavior and so sorry for the pain I've caused my family, friends, and all the good people who needlessly suffered because of my story and those who worked so hard to try to help me. I will work the rest of my life to make amends for what I have done.

[Elena]

Good. I hope you do.

[Ash]

You know what I didn't hear in there? A direct apology to the Latino community. You literally victimized them.

[Elena]

Yeah. I'm sorry to Hispanic women.

[Ash]

She said.

[Elena]

Completely demonizing you.

[Ash]

She said, I'm sorry to my family, my friends and good people.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Who the fuck are you to determine who's a good person? How about you say sorry to the community that you completely victimized for years. Years.

[Elena]

Years.

[Ash]

Like, what the is wrong with you?

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

But per her agreement with the prosecutor's office, Sherry Papini was sentenced to. Remember, she was facing 25 years. And I remember watching this and being like, are you kidding?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

She was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

[Elena]

To me, that is a travesty.

[Ash]

It is a trap.

[Elena]

It really is.

[Ash]

And that was to be followed by a 36 month period of supervised probation. And in order to pay back the $309,902 in restitution. Wow. That's what she received.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

In total from like gofundmes and victims compensation boards. While she was incarcerated, Keith Papini filed for a divorce and the court granted him full custody of their children.

[Elena]

Good.

[Ash]

There is a very interesting admission that Keith makes about what Sherry may have. May or may not have done with their children.

[Elena]

Yeah. Watch the Documentary.

[Ash]

I don't want to get too much into it in here because it's just. Just a. It's a detail that I can either confirm or deny. Yeah.

[Elena]

As far as we know.

[Ash]

But it's interesting.

[Elena]

But it's what he says, so.

[Ash]

And I'm happy that he has full custody, but definitely watch the Perfect Wife on Hulu. But In August of 2023, Sherry was released from prison and she transitioned to a halfway house. As of March of 2024, she has yet to pay any of her fine which with penalties is now nearly $350,000.

[Elena]

What an asshole.

[Ash]

I love that she's just an from.

[Elena]

She's just start to finish.

[Ash]

Still not even paying her retribution.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

Or restitution. Whatever it is.

[Elena]

Like she says, I'm gonna work the rest of my life to make amends. And it's like. And all you pay to play. Yeah, I hope you do. Yeah, I do hope you do. I hope you work until your last breath to make amends. I hope that. But it doesn't look like you are.

[Ash]

You're immediately getting out and not. Not paying back the money.

[Elena]

It's fucked up because it's like now you look back on and you're like what the fuck? Like what an asshole. That's insane. What a crazy story. And it's like while this was all going on, the pain and suffering and grief and stress that she caused for several parts of her life and trauma.

[Ash]

And communities like trauma for her family.

[Elena]

So real. And it's like you look back on it now and can at least and can be like wow, that was fucked up. But during it it's like damn. Like the trauma you inflicted. It's fucked in about 40 different directions is.

[Ash]

And a. Especially child. Especially on your kids.

[Elena]

That's the thing. And it's like lady, if you wanted to disappear, write a note, get a note and disappear.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And then he can file for divorce. He can gain custody of the kids. If you wanted to. You want to leave your whole life behind, go right ahead.

[Ash]

It's just the. The dulu that she thought she was going to just have the perfect like gone girl.

[Elena]

It.

[Ash]

Have the perfect disappearance and never get caught. And I just don't know how she returned and looked in her kids eyes every day.

[Elena]

Well, why'd you come back?

[Ash]

Oh, because she had to come back. She wanted the attention and all of the above.

[Elena]

Like how you didn't think that was gonna come out. Like it's just.

[Ash]

Well and they. They were having trouble in their marriage definitely like Obviously, she was still talking to her ex boyfriend. They weren't happy. And I think she saw this as her. Because Keith even says it in the documentary. She would bring it up daily, like, everything her ordeal that she had gone through, and she would make him feel bad that he didn't save her.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. Like, she would literally be like, you didn't save. You didn't find.

[Ash]

And I have to live with that.

[Elena]

I have to live with the fact that you didn't find me.

[Ash]

So it made it so. It's like she had the upper hand in the marriage.

[Elena]

Whoa. Like, you're the asshole meter is. It broke this psychological torment because the fact she. She did all the things that we just talked about and then had the audacity to look at her husband, who she tortured psychologically for weeks.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

And say, well, I have to live with the fact that you didn't find me because you didn't want to be found. Like, holy.

[Ash]

You made.

[Elena]

You went to great lengths to make.

[Ash]

Sure you weren't found.

[Elena]

Like, damn. Meanwhile, you watched him beg for your return search. Do all the things like, still wasn't enough while taking care of your children.

[Ash]

Still wasn't enough.

[Elena]

And still you're gonna make him feel like the.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

You are the ultimate.

[Ash]

And I think it was all so that she could come back and have him dote upon her and like. Like, I think she thought he was gonna realize what he lost.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

It didn't quite work out.

[Elena]

It is just. The case is maddening.

[Ash]

Bonkers.

[Elena]

Maddening. I'm glad they caught her.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Because if it was still hanging out in the air, like, did. Is it a hoax? Is it not a hoax? That would be mad.

[Ash]

I found another. I can't think of the name of the case right now, but I found another hoax that I want to cover. Yeah, I find them fascinating.

[Elena]

They are fascinating.

[Ash]

I find them disgusting and horrific, but I find them fascinating that somebody can go to those lengths and just have no. Not a care in the world for what they're doing to everybody.

[Elena]

That's. That's the real thing that gets you, is they don't care how it's affecting everyone that they supposedly claim to care about.

[Ash]

That is void of all empathy. Of all empathy.

[Elena]

To take it so far.

[Ash]

It's crazy. But, yeah, crazy case. I definitely want to cover some more like these. I. I do like cases where people don't die. Like, you know. Yeah, that's nice.

[Elena]

That's pretty nice.

[Ash]

A nice break to have.

[Elena]

I mean, it's horrifying.

[Ash]

Still Horrifying, but in a completely different way.

[Elena]

Yeah, I think I'm probably gonna take you back to a dark place.

[Ash]

Yeah, that's what you're here for.

[Elena]

Place, I should say.

[Ash]

Oh, what do you. What do you have cooking in the kitchen?

[Elena]

I guess we'll have to see.

[Ash]

We'll wait and find out. That was so ominous.

[Elena]

I tried.

[Ash]

Elita's still so thick and spooky.

[Elena]

I am season for life.

[Ash]

I love it. I'm like, merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, everyone.

[Elena]

And I'm like, still spooky.

[Ash]

So spooky. Well, to all our spooky listeners out there and to all our November 1st girlies and guys and theys and thems, we hope you have a wonderful day. And we hope you keep listening and.

[Elena]

We hope you keep.

[Ash]

But not so weird that you go and you develop an entire hoax kidnapping story of just be an asshole.

[Elena]

Don't do that.

[Ash]

I talked so much. I don't know.

[Elena]

Go listen to listener tales because there's a video.

[Ash]

Yeah, maybe there will be another one. Bye. If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcast Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Mikey]

Hotshot Australian Attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own.

[Ash]

She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld and she's informing on them all.

[Mikey]

I'm Marcia Clark, host of the new podcast Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases and this one belongs right at the top of the list.

[Elena]

She was addicted to the game she had created.

[Ash]

She just didn't know how to stop.

[Mikey]

Now, through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to informants Lawyer X exclusively on Wondry plus. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts or Spotify and listen to more Exhibit C true crime shows early and ad free right now.