Episode 621: Fan Favorite: Bobby Mackey's Music World

Summary

Morbid Episode 621: Fan Favorite – Bobby Mackey's Music World

Release Date: November 25, 2024 | Host: Ash and Elena | Knowledge Cutoff: 2023-10

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Introduction

In this special Thanksgiving edition, Ash and Elena revisit one of their most beloved episodes, delving deep into the eerie history of Bobby Mackey's Music World, a nightclub infamous for its haunting legends and tragic past. The hosts set the stage for a gripping tale filled with true crime, paranormal activities, and the resilience of those involved.

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The Birth of Bobby Mackey's Music World

Bobby Mackey, a seasoned country singer and railroad employee from the tiny town of Concord, Kentucky, decided to settle down after over a decade of traveling. In 1978 [08:16], he opened Bobby Mackey's Music World in an old roadhouse on Route 9 in Wilder, Kentucky. The location was ripe with history, having previously served as a slaughterhouse and meatpacking plant since 1850.

Ash introduces Bobby's humble beginnings:

"Bobby told reporters, 'In my mind's eye, I could see it all. I could see the crowd, I could see people dancing. So there was nothing going to stop me. I had to have the place.'" [10:24]

Despite the seemingly perfect setup, the property was rumored to be haunted, a fact Bobby was initially oblivious to.

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Tragic Beginnings: The Murder of Pearl Brian

In 1896 [11:21], the history of violence at the location took a dark turn with the gruesome murder of Pearl Brian. A 22-year-old woman from Indiana, Pearl was decapitated near Fort St. Thomas, less than a kilometer from the abandoned slaughterhouse. The investigation revealed that Pearl was drugged with cocaine by her alleged lovers, Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling, who intended to induce a miscarriage. When their attempts failed, they murdered her to eliminate any trace of the pregnancy.

Elena reflects on the brutality:

"If you loved this girl enough to have a relationship with her. My God." [15:37]

The mysterious disappearance of Pearl's head fueled local legends, with theories ranging from occult rituals to simple disposal in the deep well used during the slaughterhouse operations.

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Ownership Changes and Growing Haunted Legends

Over the decades, the property changed hands multiple times. In the 1950s, under mob control, it became The Latin Quarter, an illegal gambling den notorious for its violence, including several murders in the parking lot [19:04]. By the 1970s, it briefly functioned as a Hard Rock Cafe, attracting a rougher crowd and continuing its legacy of unrest [19:49].

Ash summarizes the tumultuous history:

"It was a lot has gone down. So after signing the papers that made it official, the Mackies were at the club, like, kind of cleaning out all the decorations [...]" [22:56]

Each iteration of the establishment seemed to attract its own set of troubles, cementing its reputation as a haunted locale.

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Paranormal Activities and Carl Lawson’s Role

In 1978 [24:00], Bobby and his wife Janet began preparing the club for its grand opening. Shortly after, they encountered Carl Lawson, a former employee of the Hard Rock Cafe, who introduced himself as someone knowledgeable about the club's dark past. Carl quickly became integral to the operation, sharing his experiences and suspicions of lingering malevolent spirits.

Ash introduces Carl’s early interactions:

"He introduced himself as Carl Lawson, and he explained that he had worked at the Hard Rock before it shut down..." [30:48]

Despite Janet's unease with Carl's presence, his insights proved valuable as supernatural events escalated. Janet experienced terrifying encounters, including apparitions and physical attacks, which Bobby initially dismissed to protect his business.

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Escalation of Haunted Incidents and Exorcism Attempts

As the supernatural activities intensified, Carl discovered Johanna's diary hidden beneath a loose floorboard in the basement [55:06]. Johanna, a former showgirl, had a tragic love story involving forbidden romance and murder, tying back to the club’s dark history. Her spirit, along with others, seemed restless and unwilling to move on.

Ash narrates the diary discovery:

"Carl found the diary of Johanna, a former showgirl... as he read through the diary, the pieces of her life started to come together." [55:29]

Desperate to rid the club of its haunting presence, Bobby enlisted the help of Reverend Glenn Cole, a Pentecostal minister. The initial exorcism attempts were met with resistance from the spirits inhabiting Carl, leading to intense confrontations and further disturbances [76:17].

Elena captures the tension:

"I was so terrified because I thought I was going to lose my baby." [42:00]

The exorcism sessions were arduous, involving physical manifestations and psychological torment, ultimately leading to a temporary cessation of the hauntings. However, signs of the spirits' lingering presence hinted at unresolved conflicts [77:50].

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Legal Battles and Publicity Stunts

In the 1990s, the haunted reputation of Bobby Mackey's Music World gained widespread attention, culminating in a lawsuit filed by Junior Costigan in 1993 [87:17]. Costigan claimed he was assaulted by a ghost in the men's bathroom, leading to one of the most unusual legal defenses—a motion to dismiss written in poetic verse.

Ash highlights the lawsuit's peculiarity:

"As follows. Give me some bongos. The PLF claims in his petition he was assaulted by an apparition injured by a ghostly nemesis on Bobby Mackey's premises..." [88:37]

Although the case was dismissed due to Costigan's failure to appear in court, it propelled the nightclub into the spotlight, overshadowing its country music roots with its supernatural allure. Bobby eventually embraced this shift, capitalizing on the hauntings to attract tourists and paranormal enthusiasts [90:03].

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Embracing the Haunted Legacy and Current Operations

By the late 1990s, Bobby Mackey's Music World had fully integrated its haunted legacy into its business model. The establishment became a hotspot for ghost tours, paranormal investigations, and even overnight sleepovers, alongside its regular music performances [91:23].

Ash concludes the transformation:

"By the late 90s, he seemed actually like a lot more accepting of the paranormal activity surrounding the nightclub." [90:26]

Today, the club continues to operate at its original location on Licking Pike, offering patrons a unique blend of live music and eerie encounters. While Bobby maintains skepticism about personal hauntings, the establishment remains a legendary site for both country music lovers and thrill-seekers intrigued by its storied past.

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Conclusion

Episode 621 of Morbid Network's "Morbid" podcast provides an enthralling exploration of Bobby Mackey's Music World—an establishment where music and the supernatural collide. Through meticulous research and engaging storytelling, Ash and Elena uncover decades of tragedy, hauntings, and the indomitable spirit of Bobby Mackey himself. This episode not only highlights the dark history of a single location but also delves into the broader themes of belief, skepticism, and the human desire to find meaning in the unexplained.

Notable Quotes:

• "I can tick so many boxes with just one delicious shake." – Ash [00:00]
• "Bobby told reporters, 'In my mind's eye, I could see it all. I could see the crowd, I could see people dancing. So there was nothing going to stop me. I had to have the place.'" – Ash [10:24]
• "If you loved this girl enough to have a relationship with her. My God." – Elena [15:37]
• "I feel different. Something in me has changed." – Carl [78:30]
• "This establishment is purported to be haunted. Management is not responsible and cannot be held liable for any actions of any ghosts or spirits on this premise." – Ash [90:28]

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Further Listening

For those captivated by the haunting tale of Bobby Mackey's Music World, consider exploring other episodes of Morbid for more true crime and paranormal history. Join Wondery Plus for early access and an ad-free experience on the Wondery app or Apple Podcasts.

Transcript

[Ash]

Wondery plus subscribers can listen to Morbid early and ad free. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. Hey everyone, let's talk about protein for a second. There's this rumor that getting plant based protein is tough, but listen, there are some amazing options out there even if you're not vegan. Adding more plant based protein to your diet is a fantastic way to nourish your body and support the planet. My good go to for tasty protein and superfood pack shake is Cachava. Every serving of Cachava offers 25 grams of 100% plant based protein. But that's not all this all in one shake has fiber, quality, fats, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and so much more. I love that I can tick so many boxes with just one delicious shake. If you know me, you know that vanilla and chai are my favorite flavors and I like to combine them. But they also have chocolate, they've got matcha, and they've got coconut acai. I'm a big fan of the coconut acai as well. After drinking Kachava first thing in the morning because that's when I always drink it, I feel satiated for hours. I feel focused, calm and ready to take on my day. Something that I really love to do if I even want like a little bit more protein is just add a scoop of peanut butter to the vanilla and chai concoction that I make. And that oh is just scrum diddly umpious honey. Kachava is offering our listeners 10% off on their subscription for a limited time. Just go to kachava.commorbid spelled k a C H A v a and get 10% off your first order. That's K A C H A V A dot com morbid what's it like to get the new iPhone 16 Pro with at and T Next up Anytime? It's like when you first light up the grill and think of all the mouthwatering possibilities. Learn how to get the new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence on AT and T and the latest iPhone every year with AT and T next up anytime ATT connecting changes everything. Apple Intelligence coming fall 2024 with Siri and device language set to US English. Some features and languages will be coming over the next year. $0 offer may not be available on future iPhones. Next up Anytime features may be discontinued at any time, subject to change additional fees. Terms and restrictions apply. See att.com iPhone for details hey, weirdos. Happy Thanksgiving. Yay.

[Elena]

Giving thanks.

[Ash]

Giving thanks. We don't do this often, so you're probably like, what the f is happening? But we decided to re air one of our fan listena favorites this Thanksgiving so that we could spend time with those we love and hold near and dear. And so that I can personally stuff my face with everything that Elena is cooking this holiday season.

[Elena]

Exactly. And so I can cook the massive amount of food that I always cook.

[Ash]

Exactly. So we hope you enjoy this. We hope that you are with those that you hold near and dear. And we wish you a very happy.

[Elena]

Thanksgiving because we're thankful for you. You're beautiful.

[Ash]

Without further ado, you look like Linda Evangelista.

[Elena]

You do.

[Ash]

Without further ado, Bobby Mackey's haunted shit.

[Elena]

Giving thanks.

[Ash]

Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash.

[Elena]

And I'm Elena.

[Ash]

And this is morbid.

[Elena]

This is morbid. And I am looking at Audible books.

[Ash]

I thought you were gonna say, this is morbid. And I'm Elena, and I was gonna be like, girl, we did that.

[Elena]

We did that already. We were past that.

[Ash]

We did the intro.

[Elena]

Now I'm just looking at Audible books.

[Ash]

Oh, what were you looking at?

[Elena]

I think I'm gonna get Salem's Lot because I just want to hear it.

[Ash]

Stephen King.

[Elena]

Mikey was just listening to it on Audible, and I was like, oh, huh. I've read it. I just want to hear it now.

[Ash]

That's cool. Does. Does he narrate it?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

This isn't one of those ads that, like, you stick into a show. No. It's literally not. We're actually talking about it.

[Elena]

No. Oh, he narrates part of it.

[Ash]

Oh, that's cool.

[Elena]

Yeah, the beginning of it sounds like.

[Ash]

Like he's, like, the beginning.

[Elena]

The beginning.

[Ash]

Listen to Pet Cemetery, because you know who does it?

[Elena]

Who?

[Ash]

Michael C. Hall.

[Elena]

Shut up, Dexter. Oh, I was like, I will listen to that. All right. I'm. I'm on a Stephen King binge recently.

[Ash]

Yeah. You've been listening to the writing.

[Elena]

Yeah, his writing on writing.

[Ash]

And he has a very soothing voice because it's been in the car a few times when I've been, like, driving around town.

[Elena]

I like listening to him, you know, but that's where I am.

[Ash]

I don't really know where I am right now. I'm.

[Elena]

Ain't that the truth for all of us?

[Ash]

We got some. We got some crystals in here that are, like, helping with the energy. But I think what I think, why are you laughing at me? I think that they're sucking my energy a Little bit, but, like, not in a bad way. You know what I'm saying? Crystal girlies. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Elena]

There's crystal girlies and boys that are saying, yes, yes. I feel that. I hear you. I hear you.

[Ash]

Crystal girls, gays and lace.

[Elena]

There you go.

[Ash]

You guys.

[Elena]

Okay, well, do we have any, like, anything going on?

[Ash]

No. Do you. What do you have?

[Elena]

I have the paperback version of my book coming out July 26th.

[Ash]

I would say that's something going on.

[Elena]

You go buy that. Go. Go pre order it. It's fun. Paperbacks are great. You can stick them in your bag and they're. You can flop. Flip flop them around.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Who doesn't love a flip flop? And it's got, like, a fun little insert in it. And what. It has the first. Well, a chapter of the sequel in it. Ooh.

[Ash]

And I got to actually pick that. Yeah, I. Like. I gave my advice a little bit.

[Elena]

Yeah. So it's got a chapter of the sequel in it.

[Ash]

That's cool.

[Elena]

So that's pretty awesome. And it comes out July 26th.

[Ash]

And we'll be in New York the day that it comes out doing, like, a fun little chat. Right?

[Elena]

A little event. Event.

[Ash]

I don't even know what we're doing. I just. I'm just like, yeah, I'll be there.

[Elena]

We're just chatting about the book.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Just like, by ourselves.

[Ash]

I can do that.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

By ourselves.

[Elena]

No, I'm just kidding.

[Ash]

Oh.

[Elena]

I was trying to make it seem like we were just gonna be, like, hanging out, talking about the book, and.

[Ash]

In New York happened to be there. Just vibes.

[Elena]

Yeah, but no, it's an event. But you're funny. But paperback book has a chapter of the new one, and the new one will be coming out in the near future. Hey.

[Ash]

Oh, I've gotten to read a few songs because I'm awesome. And because I'm awesome. Makes me think of my friend Marissa. If you're listening, hi. I love you. And it's really fucking good. It's also really creepy. And randomly, the other day, Elena just sat next to me on the couch and was like, can I try something on you? And I was like, probably not. And then she essentially was like, what if I did this and, like, manipulated my hand in a weird way?

[Elena]

I just wanted to be able to describe something in an accurate way. So I decided to do it. To Ash.

[Ash]

It's me, your personal.

[Elena]

You'll find out once the book is out. I'll tell you what scene it was.

[Ash]

That I cast your vote at. What did Chiduto ash dot com.

[Elena]

Oh, God, what a weird website that would be. Yeah. I don't know why you just gave the world that website. I don't know about that website.

[Ash]

It's not real.

[Elena]

Com. That's a scary right?

[Ash]

I don't like it came from your head. It's like a mean girls. But he's like, that's a scary mask.

[Elena]

Scary mask bra.

[Ash]

Scary mouse bra. Well, it kind of works out that we're in a silly G, man, because I have a haunting today.

[Elena]

A haunting.

[Ash]

I have the haunting of one. Bobby Mackie's Music World. Whoa. Whoa. Everybody's like, are you guys on drugs today? No.

[Elena]

But it's a crazy day.

[Ash]

Crazy. So I'm just gonna start at the beginning. Does that sound good to you?

[Elena]

That's always an awesome place to start.

[Ash]

Fantastic. This is a fun story, and it's also a scary story. And there's also some parts that are not fun. Awesome.

[Elena]

I love all that.

[Ash]

Way heavier on the scary.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

So we're going to start by talking about Bobby Mackie. He opened Bobby Mackey's Music World in 1978. And when country singer Bobby Mackie opened the nightclub that he named after himself, his main goal was basically just to make it like a tight knit, small little nightclub where people would come hang out, vibe, dance, just enjoy some country music. Just like quaint goals.

[Elena]

Quaint goals.

[Ash]

But by 1978, he had spent more than 12 years traveling around the country, either with his own country western band or as an employee with the railroad. And at that point, he was like, very, very ready to settle down. After those 12 years, he had been born and raised in a super small town, Concord, Kentucky. The latest population is literally 19. Whoa. As of 2022. I looked it up the other day. And its latest population, again for the people in the back is 19.

[Elena]

19.

[Ash]

19.

[Elena]

That's not even old enough to drink.

[Ash]

Nope.

[Elena]

Nope.

[Ash]

Not at Bobby Mackey's.

[Elena]

Nope.

[Ash]

But so he. He was from that small town and he was kind of ready to get back to that small town lifestyle after all the traveling and everything. And there was, like, a few reasons for that sudden urge to settle, aside from the, you know, traveling over more than a decade. He was now married and his wife Janet was actually pregnant. And like I said, he really wanted to open his own nightclub. He told producers from Discovery Channel it was either move to Nashville or get my own place.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

But it turned out he didn't have to look too far from home to find the perfect spot for his new club. Because A couple years earlier, an old roadhouse on Route 9 in Wilder, Kentucky, closed down. And as it turned out, it had actually previously been used as a nightclub. So it was already set up for, you know, a nightclub.

[Elena]

A nightclub, if you will.

[Ash]

It was set up pretty perfectly, but at the very least, it was a good start. So Bobby told reporters, in my mind's eye, I could see it all. I could see the crowd, I could see people dancing. So there was nothing going to stop me. I had to have the place.

[Elena]

Had to have it.

[Ash]

But, like, apparently Bobby didn't see and couldn't sense that the place was totally and completely, completely haunted. Oh, haunted as. So the property, which actually still sits and is like open at 44 licking pike, it has had a very long and very legendy history that started way before it was a nightclub, a roadhouse, or really anything. When it was first purchased, it was actually home to a slaughterhouse and a meatpacking plant.

[Elena]

That'll do it.

[Ash]

In what was known at the time as Finch Town. It wasn't even wilder yet.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

Now the plant was built in 1850, so that's how far we're going back. And it closed a few decades later. But something about it, like something about the property kept people in town talking. Even years after it had closed, a lot of people felt like the area was either haunted or used by their local Satan worshippers, slash occultists.

[Elena]

Oh, my favorite thing ever.

[Ash]

Because. Duh. Yeah, of course. And they figured that these groups of people would find it a great spot to use for their rituals because there actually really was a well that had been built back when it was a slaughterhouse, like back when the slaughterhouse was running that collected all the animal fluids, specifically the blood. Oh. And that well, and the legend surrounding it would later play a huge part in actually a murder. The 1896 murder of one Pearl Brian. Oh, this is a real story.

[Elena]

Oh, damn.

[Ash]

And this is really sad. In 1896, 1896, Pearl was a 22 year old girl from Indiana. And late In January of 1896, she told her parents that she'd gotten a telegram from a family friend in Indianapolis. I said it. I can never say that.

[Elena]

Indianapolis.

[Ash]

I'm not going to try again because.

[Elena]

I already said you did it.

[Ash]

But so she got that telegram from that place and these family friends asked her to come visit and she was like, hell yeah, sounds awesome. So she set off on her trip and just sadly, days later, on February 1, her body was found decapitated.

[Elena]

Oh, my God.

[Ash]

In a large field less than 600 yards from Fort St. Thomas and very close by to the abandoned slaughterhouse.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

So the coroner determined that Pearl had actually been drugged with cocaine just prior to her death. And the cause of death was obviously the. The decapitation. Oh, God. And they believed that she had been killed where her body was discovered in that field. Unfortunately, the coroner also said that Pearl would have been alive when the decapitation started. Yes. Oh. So 1896, investigators started trying to put the pieces of the case together, and they found out that the last time Pearl had been seen alive was on the evening of January 31st. And she was spotted with two men, Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling. Now, the last time the three of the. The three of them. Excuse me. Were spotted was in a cab from Cincinnati that was headed back in the direction of Fort Thomas.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

Where she was found. Now, the detectives are pretty sure that these two guys had something to do with Pearl's murder, and they were right on the right track. When Scott Jackson was arrested, he told the police that he and Pearl had secretly been in a relationship for the past several months and that recently he had found out that she was pregnant. And he was not exactly pleased about this. I just want to put a trigger warning here because this is going to be a little bit tough going forward just for this one section. Just a trigger warning for loss of pregnancy slash miscarriage stuff. Thanks. You're welcome. So he was, like I said, not happy that she was pregnant and suggested that Pearl try to induce her own miscarriage by drinking. I think it's. Is it ergot? Ergot, yeah. Which is a fungus and rye mixed together.

[Elena]

That's what they tried to blame the Salem witch trials on.

[Ash]

Oh, shit, you're right. I forgot about that. So she obviously refused this because she was like, I'm not gonna do that. And she said she refused it multiple times. Like, he kept being like, no, this is what you need to do. Like, we're not having a baby. You need to drink this. And she's like, no, no.

[Elena]

She gets to decide. Their friend.

[Ash]

Yeah. Her body, her choice.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And it's like, you don't have to be a part of this baby's life if you don't want to go away. Bye. See ya. Never. So she kept refusing, kept refusing, and finally, he sent her himself to Cincinnati to have an abortion performed. Now, from the story, it sounds like she either didn't go or did, but didn't go through with the abortion.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

So on the night of January 31, Scott and Alonzo there invited Pearl out, and they slipped cocaine into her drink, hoping that that would cause a miscarriage.

[Elena]

Oh, my God.

[Ash]

Two fucking assholes. Now, that didn't seem to work as far as they were concerned, which I was like, how would you really?

[Elena]

I was just gonna say.

[Ash]

But they didn't give it any time, and they decided their only option left now would be to murder Pearl and the unborn baby. Now, the reason that they wanted to decapitate her was because they believed that she wouldn't be able to be identified without her head, which, like, I know it's 1896, and, like, obviously, you know, certain things aren't available, but, like, wow. Okay, wow.

[Elena]

And that's just fucked up.

[Ash]

It's super fucked up. And if, like, you loved this girl enough to have a relationship with her. My God.

[Elena]

To get her pregnant, like, Jesus, Seriously.

[Ash]

So once they killed her, they dumped her body in that field outside of Fort Thomas. But when it came down to it, they both ended up giving different stories about what had happened to Pearl's head, what they had done with it. One of them said that they threw it into a reservoir on their way back to Cincinnati.

[Elena]

Can you imagine?

[Ash]

Which I don't think is what happened. And the other one said that they had buried her head in a sandbar near Dayton. Now, it doesn't seem like either of those two stories are the case, but they never found Pearl's head. She had to be buried without her head.

[Elena]

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Ash]

Detectives believed and suspected that they had probably destroyed her head in an incinerator because Scott Jackson was a student at a dental school and had access to that incinerator. Holy shit up.

[Elena]

That's wild.

[Ash]

So they ended up being executed, obviously, for Pearl's. Pearl's murder on March 20, 1897. And you would think that that would put an end to the story, but people still were talking about the mystery surrounding the case ever since. Eventually, the talk of the case would slow down, but for a while, people were heavily focused on this.

[Elena]

Yeah, this is huge.

[Ash]

Right? So Scott, Alonzo, and Pearl have all been worked into the legends and the stories surrounding the abandoned slaughterhous. And then everything else it would come to be. Now, some legends claim that they were Satanists and that Pearl had been murdered during a ritual. Ritual sacrifice. And those legends say that the reason Pearl's head was never found was because it was thrown into the well of the slaughterhouse, which was, like, super, super deep.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But by the 1920s, they decided, you know what? Maybe we should fucking tear down that old slaughterhouse, because, damn, if it really is being used for rituals and decapitations, we should get rid of it.

[Elena]

Yeah, probably.

[Ash]

Yeah. Now, like I said, people weren't really talking about the legend of what happened to Pearl as often because they were more focused on modern things like prohibition and gambling. Yeah, fun things, old sport. Well, prohibition's not fun. But in 1933, just as Prohibition was about to end, also, I should acknowledge that you said old sport, because that was funny.

[Elena]

That's okay. I felt you understand it in your soul.

[Ash]

I did.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I love Gatsby. But just as it was about to end, a man named Ernest Buck Brady bought the Roadhouse and opened it up as a restaurant and casino. And he ended up naming it the Primrose, which I think is really pretty.

[Elena]

That is pretty.

[Ash]

Right now. In no time, the place was hopping. People loved hanging out there, but more importantly, they liked spending their money there. Now, that latter part obviously brought attention from the mob.

[Elena]

Oh, that old thing?

[Ash]

Oh, yeah, that whole thing. Eventually, they were actually able to pressure Buck into selling the club to them. So the mob took over.

[Elena]

Damn. The mob is like, mine, mine.

[Ash]

Money pit. I'll take it.

[Elena]

I'll take it.

[Ash]

So Frank Screw Andrews.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

They called him Screw.

[Elena]

Yeah, they did. Of course.

[Ash]

Don't ask.

[Elena]

Absolutely.

[Ash]

He managed the now rebranded club that they were calling the Latin Quarter. Ooh, sexy. And it gained even more popularity. Now, in the 1950s, it was actually the. Or one of the most popular illegal gambling dens in the area. And it went on that way for 11 years.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

Right?

[Elena]

An illegal gambling den. That's a. That's a good run. That's a good run.

[Ash]

I don't know what the typical run is.

[Elena]

Me neither. But that feels like a good one.

[Ash]

Feels pretty great. I mean, over a decade.

[Elena]

Yeah, let's go like a middle schooler.

[Ash]

But, like, let's not go, because Illegalities.

[Elena]

Yeah, you know, there's that.

[Ash]

But in 1961, the residents of the town were like, hey, criminal activity is a little too rife here. And law enforcement, like, maybe. Could you crack down on that a bit?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And law enforcement was like, yeah, we should probably do that. So they did, and they closed down the club. All right. And so it sat empty for a few more years until it reopened in the 70s as a hard Rock Cafe. Hell, yeah. And it's really funny because, like, I feel like everybody's been to a hard Rock Cafe 100%. And usually they just have, like, you know, cool memorabilia and a good burger.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

This Hard Rock Cafe was Hard Rock.

[Elena]

Hell yeah. It was.

[Ash]

Because if the residents were uncomfy before, they did not realize that things were going to get a whole lot worse. According to the Cincinnati Inquirer, the Hard Rock catered to a little bit of a rougher crowd of people made up of, quote, all people from out of town with an interest in live hard rock music.

[Elena]

Hell yeah. I feel like it's just a bunch of, like, barbs from Trolls World Tour.

[Ash]

Oh, my God, you are such a mom. And I love you for that. I was like, barbz. And then I thought you were going down, like a Stranger Things route. And I was like, I'm not getting it.

[Elena]

I went Trolls World Tour on us.

[Ash]

And I said, troll, Trolls. And then I was like, oh.

[Elena]

And then you knew. You knew.

[Ash]

I fucking love Barb.

[Elena]

It's just a bunch of barbs being like, let's rock.

[Ash]

We have the rock, String. Hell yeah. Let's go, brothers. No. So that. But that was like the weird thing about this property. No matter what it was operating as a roadhouse, the primrose, the Latin Quarter, the Hard Rock. There was always some kind of criminal element attached to it.

[Elena]

You know, it's just. It's just like. That's its thing.

[Ash]

It was just like, criminal.

[Elena]

This place is just like. It's kind of my thing to have criminal elements always.

[Ash]

It's kind of like Alexis from Schitt's Creek.

[Elena]

Yeah, it's a little bit criminal.

[Ash]

It's a little bit criminal when it drives its car. But apparently, though, its time as the Hard Rock was the most violent.

[Elena]

Oh, I didn't see that coming.

[Ash]

Nor did I.

[Elena]

But I thought the mob would have been the.

[Ash]

You know, me too. But maybe that was just less reported on.

[Elena]

Here I am learning things.

[Ash]

You know, I'm sure that it probably was when it was the mob, but we just don't know much about that. And I'm not going to talk about it.

[Elena]

No way.

[Ash]

But the police, anyways, they write things down. And that's why we know about this. They write things down, reports. But they were constantly going down there to break up fights, to respond to accidents or worse, to investigate crime scenes. Lots of deaths going on. Yeah. The wilder police chief, now it is the wilder police chief, Robert Schindler, I believe it is, told reporters we have had an awful lot of trouble down there.

[Elena]

But.

[Ash]

But most of it happens in the parking lot.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

Now, by the time the club, like the Hard Rock Cafe, closed at the end of 1977, several murders had Taken place in the parking lot.

[Elena]

Oh, wow.

[Ash]

And actually, just weeks before it closed its doors as the Hard Rock, a man had been killed with a shotgun. And a couple months before that, another man had also been shot to death as he was leaving the lot.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

Yeah, Intense. That parking lot, just like, I think it would close and a lot of bar fights would take place and, you know.

[Elena]

Yeah, that's where everybody kind of spills out, right?

[Ash]

Exactly. And I think it just attracted a rougher crowd.

[Elena]

Geez.

[Ash]

But all that to say, the property had gone through a lot of loss, a lot of violence and tragedy by the time Bobby laid eyes on it in 1978. But again, he had no idea. All he saw was the future home of Bobby Mackie's Music World.

[Elena]

I love that name.

[Ash]

I do, too. It's really fun.

[Elena]

It's pretty intense.

[Ash]

Music world.

[Elena]

Music world, man. World tour.

[Ash]

World tour. I didn't. It's. It's the Crystals. I didn't know what was happening. Like, Ash just opened her mouth and.

[Elena]

Went, world and, like, hung on it for a while.

[Ash]

And I was like, where is this? I was tuning into the tune of World Star. You remember those videos? They were always horrible. He would be like, whoa, it's the Crystals, man.

[Elena]

It's the Crystals. They're doing something to you.

[Ash]

They're making me all silly and goofy.

[Elena]

That Sash's rock voice is like, world tour. It sounds like a shit porn. It's like.

[Ash]

That was a maniacal laugh that just came out of my face. Heck.

[Elena]

I love it. All right, all right. Back to business.

[Ash]

Building the nightclub. Bobby might not have had a bad feeling, like I've told you 47 times now, but the first time she got out of the car and laid eyes on the place, his wife Janet sure fucking did. In fact, the very first time she laid eyes on this place, she said as she closed the car door and turned to look to the building, she swore she saw a person move in the doorway. And then she saw the front door close, but there wasn't anybody supposed to be inside.

[Elena]

Did she tell someone that when it happened? Or was that, like, a later recollection?

[Ash]

Fun fact, she told Bobby.

[Elena]

Because I was like, you should tell someone.

[Ash]

She did. She was like, hey, Bob, Bobby, there's.

[Elena]

A person in there.

[Ash]

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[Elena]

Yeah, you know, why not?

[Ash]

Whatever. It was the middle of the day. It was fully light outside, but still, Janet just couldn't shake the feeling that there was something eerie about this club. It had an energy that she just did not like. And when she got inside, she probably didn't really feel much better. The place was dimly lit. All the tables and the chairs were still set up. There was posters and decorations hung on the wall.

[Elena]

Ooh, creepy.

[Ash]

It basically looked like whoever had owned the place before just walked out one day and never came back. Wow. Cause that actually is kind of exactly what happened.

[Elena]

Like, that's actually what happened.

[Ash]

So it was like that. Cause that's what happened. Yeah, but I don't know. She just. She didn't feel like her and Bobby were alone, I guess, is how I would say it.

[Elena]

All right.

[Ash]

She later said it felt like someone was in there and there wasn't nobody in but him and I. Oh. And to make matters worse, as she made her way toward the kitchen, she started to hear what sounded like a man and a woman having an argument. But when she pushed open the Swinging doors that led to the kitchen. It was completely empty.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

So she, like, looked around a little bit more, but there was nobody there except her and Bobby, and they weren't arguing.

[Elena]

Ooh.

[Ash]

Weird.

[Elena]

That's like, people will hear. In a lot of hauntings, you hear, like, people having a conversation with each other or something. Yeah, that's always. That freaks me out for some reason, but, like, the auditory.

[Ash]

Yeah. What is that called?

[Elena]

It isn't in a.

[Ash]

You talked about it in the lighthouses when the guy was coughing.

[Elena]

It's a residual. Is that what it. Is that what it is? A residual hunting, where they're just, like, just always having that, like, experience over.

[Ash]

And over and over. It's freaky. It is. And I think your first thought is kind of like, oh, my God, are those people, like, still there having that argument? But I don't think it's that. I think it's the energy. Exactly. Oh, so creepy.

[Elena]

But.

[Ash]

So she was obviously super freaked out, and she later said, I wanted to get out of there as soon as possible.

[Elena]

Yeah, I don't blame you.

[Ash]

But Bobby, on the other hand, he could not have been more enthusiastic. And he wasn't hearing any of what she was hearing.

[Elena]

He's just, you know, he's. He's thinking of possibilities.

[Ash]

He's thinking about the future of Bobby. Bobby Mackie's music world.

[Elena]

Yeah. I mean, if I had that in front of me, I would probably be plowing ahead, too, right?

[Ash]

Exactly. He was very excited. He was poking around the building. He was singing to himself, just checking things out.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah, he's got a new place.

[Ash]

And all the while, Janet is just standing by the door waiting to get the fuck out of there. And after a while, she was like, hey, can we leave?

[Elena]

I'm scared as fuck.

[Ash]

Let's go. And finally they did. But as they drove home, she could tell because at this point, they hadn't purchased it. They were just kind of, like, scoping locations. But she knew that this one was the one that Bobby had fallen in love with.

[Elena]

She's not going to get him out of it.

[Ash]

No. 1, she didn't want to, like, ruin it and be the damper on it, bust his bubble. And two, she also knew that she was not going to be able to talk him out of it because Bobby was the kind of guy who would not be talked out of something once his mind was made up.

[Elena]

Ah. So she's like, why even bother?

[Ash]

Exactly. She knew how it was going to go, and turns out she was right. And just a few Weeks later, they were now the official new owners of the building at 44 Licking Pike.

[Elena]

What a name.

[Ash]

Haunted Ass Building.

[Elena]

Licking Pike.

[Ash]

Licking pike.

[Elena]

Like that. Every time you say it, I'm like, are you sure?

[Ash]

No, no.

[Elena]

And the answer is no.

[Ash]

But it's L, I, C, K, I.

[Elena]

N, G. No, that's licking.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

I don't like no other way to say that.

[Ash]

I didn't think so.

[Elena]

It's just like, does that.

[Ash]

Why? Licking pike.

[Elena]

Licking pike. I don't like it.

[Ash]

I'd like to lick pie.

[Elena]

Oh, I love pie. Right. Let's call it 44 pie.

[Ash]

Pie. But a few days after signing the papers that made it official, the Mackies were at the club, like, kind of cleaning out all the decorations that had just been left by the previous owner and all the random junk. And they spotted somebody in the doorway of the club. Now, the figure startled Janet, who probably was questioning whether it was an actual person or not, since she'd already seen a weird figure.

[Elena]

It's an apparition.

[Ash]

But she called out to Bobby to investigate. And as he got closer, he could see that that figure was actually a real person. This person looked to be about 20 years old, a little bit shorter than Bobby, and just, you know, casually dressed.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And he was like, hey, I'm Carl.

[Elena]

Hey, Carl.

[Ash]

I'm Carl.

[Elena]

I'm Carl.

[Ash]

It's like the monkey before Jimmy Neutron.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

His name is Paul. Never mind. Close, but there's a Carl in Jimmy Neutron, so there I am. Anyways, I don't know what's going on with my brain. But he introduced himself as Carl Lawson, and he explained that he had worked at the Hard Rock before it shut down, and ever since it had shut down, he'd been out of work. And he said, you know, I figured I'd just come by, introduce myself. I know this place inside and out. If you need any help, I'm your guy.

[Elena]

Yeah. He said, I don't. I don't think you have the criminal element yet, so, like, I can help.

[Ash]

You to come let you in on all of it. He said, if there's anything you need to know about this place, I'm the man to ask. And then he said, I even saw a guy get killed here once. Which I was like, I. I don't know if you had to throw that in there.

[Elena]

What a, like, flex.

[Ash]

I feel like you could have liked that part out weird.

[Elena]

Flex, My guy. I saw a guy get killed here.

[Ash]

He's like, I know everything about this place, even the murder of him.

[Elena]

He's like, welcome to this building. I saw someone lose their life here a lot. Welcome home. It's like, okay, thanks so much.

[Ash]

So probably for that reason, Janet wasn't so sure about Carl at first.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But. But again, she was five months pregnant at the time, and Bobby knew that too, obviously. So he was like, I'm probably gonna need some extra help around here sooner or later. So you know what? Let's take Carl up on the offer.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And he also figured, and Janet did too, that Carl's knowledge about the club would make him an asset along the way, especially once they opened the place for sure. So he started right away, and he seemed to be over the moon to be back. Like, he loved being there. I thought this was a red flag at first. It's not okay.

[Elena]

Because I was gonna be like, what is going on with Carl?

[Ash]

No, Carl's excited. I feel like he just really loves this.

[Elena]

Oh, so if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. That's Carl.

[Ash]

Exactly. I think. I think Carl loved this place. And I also think that this place loved Carl.

[Elena]

That was beautiful.

[Ash]

It's not, though.

[Elena]

Oh, okay.

[Ash]

Yeah, like, it sounds perfect.

[Elena]

I don't know the story, so I'm really flying by the seat of my pants here.

[Ash]

I don't know. This is.

[Elena]

I literally don't know this story. I don't know what happens at all.

[Ash]

I don't know her.

[Elena]

I don't know her. So I thought that was beautiful, but apparently it is not. I'm interested to see why it's not beautiful.

[Ash]

It might be beautiful, like, in the very end, but I feel like at this moment in time, the place was, like, calling to Carl, in my opinion, at least.

[Elena]

And not calling like, hey, girl, I miss you. It's calling like, carl, get back here, you little shit. Okay.

[Ash]

I kind of like that.

[Elena]

That makes sense.

[Ash]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. You know, but he also told Janet, once he started, he said, don't worry about the ghosts in here. They're my friends. Oh, he's adorable.

[Elena]

He's really sweet.

[Ash]

I kind of love it. I love him a lot.

[Elena]

I love you, Carl.

[Ash]

I love you. But she just wrote the comment off to Carl having, you know, like, a bit of an offbeat personality and not much more.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You know, she would probably feel different as her time at the club went on.

[Elena]

Uh oh.

[Ash]

And actually, a few days later, she'd probably feel pretty different.

[Elena]

Uh oh.

[Ash]

So a few days later, she was cleaning in the main room of the club, and she Heard arguing again coming from the kitchen. It kind of sounded like the same voices that she had heard the first day that she and Bobby had come to the club. So she made her way to the kitchen again, very cautiously this time. And again, she found it completely empty. And as soon as she walked in, though, she heard a weird sound coming from the sink. So she went over to check it out, and as she peered into the sink, it started to fill up with a thick, red liquid that looked like blood.

[Elena]

What?

[Ash]

So she started backing away from the sink, completely horrified. But then suddenly, she felt a huge hand on her back that started pushing her back toward the sink.

[Elena]

Oh, my God.

[Ash]

And she said, the more she struggled, the stronger the force seemed to get.

[Elena]

I don't love that.

[Ash]

It seemed to her like whatever was pushing her was determined to force her head under this liquid.

[Elena]

I would want to talk to Carl immediately and be like, are these your friends?

[Ash]

Well, then you would have been happy, because immediately he came running into the kitchen, responding to Janet screaming. And as he walked in, the force let up. She literally, like, later, Janet said, if it wasn't for him, who knows what would have happened next.

[Elena]

Oh, I'd be like, you gotta talk to your friends, Carl.

[Ash]

Right?

[Elena]

You gotta. You better set them straight.

[Ash]

Like, here, you said these ghosts were your friends. This ghost just tried to kill them.

[Elena]

This is on you. You are who you hang with. Okay? Guilty by association. You better make this right.

[Ash]

You are the company you keep. Carl. Carl.

[Elena]

Paul.

[Ash]

That's alliteration right there.

[Elena]

Carl.

[Ash]

Paul. So Janet and Carl immediately went to Bobby because they were like, bitch, you own this place.

[Elena]

Yeah, this is not good.

[Ash]

They were like, I almost just got drowned in a sink full of blood. And I also heard Phantom arguing just, like, the first day that we got here, which.

[Elena]

That sounds so, like, just. We don't even need to mention it anymore at this. But, like, I was like, phantom arguing. That's terrify. And it's like. And then the sink filled up with blood, and they tried to drown her in it. And I'm like, oh, you're like, score.

[Ash]

That from the record to talk about the arguing anymore. Honestly, forget it. Well, Bobby didn't want to talk about any of it. He was just like, I don't really think there's anything going on here.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

Which I would have been, like, invalidating me as, fuck.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I am carrying our child, you bitch. I feel like, why would I make that up?

[Elena]

Like, that's a weird thing to make up.

[Ash]

I don't know. Maybe if he thought that like she didn't want the club or something.

[Elena]

But that's like a weird one to make up.

[Ash]

Yeah. I don't know. But he said, I don't think believe in ghosts. There's got to be some other explanation, something else. Can't be that.

[Elena]

Yeah, obviously.

[Ash]

Let me tell you, the wrath Drew would face if I had a ghost hand shove my ass closer to a sink full of red ooze that wanted to put my head under that. And he was just like, man, I don't believe in ghosts, so fuck off.

[Elena]

I'd be like, I'd be mad.

[Ash]

I am angry.

[Elena]

Yeah, that's what I would say.

[Ash]

I'd be. I am angry.

[Elena]

You know what this face faces? It's the face of an irritated woman angry.

[Ash]

I'm mad upset. So Janet and Carl, they were like, yeah, I don't really care if you believe us or not. There's spirits here, Bobby.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And before long, they would not be the only ones to think that. Because a few nights after the attack on Janet in the kitchen, patrol officer, like literal police officer Larry Hornsby was doing his rounds, and he pulled into the parking lot of Bobby Mackey's just to do a swimming sweep. Now, while he was parked in the lot, he thought he saw somebody moving around inside the club, which was closed at the time. So he was like, oh, that. That could be a break in. So he called for backup, an additional officer. And once that officer arrived, the two of them went into the building, announcing themselves as they went in the front door. Inside, the club was completely dark, and Hornsby was actually starting to second guess what he'd seen through the window. He was like, I don't know, like, maybe my eyes are playing tricks.

[Elena]

He's like, did I just go back up for nothing?

[Ash]

Exactly. But just as he was second guessing himself, both officers started hearing noises from the backstage area of the club. Hornsby said, I knew there was a man and woman and a. And a radio playing. I heard the voices and I heard the music.

[Elena]

What?

[Ash]

So they heard all of that. And when they reached the area where the noises were coming from, they found that the room was completely empty.

[Elena]

Oh, that's fucked up.

[Ash]

But as they were searching the room, they heard the front door slam shut.

[Elena]

What?

[Ash]

So at that point, they were like, I guess, like, if somebody was in here, they just fled. So maybe there really was someone in here.

[Elena]

No way.

[Ash]

So they reported what they found, and they left the club for the night. And I'm sure they probably were like, damn, like, somebody evaded us.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Damn. We just got gawk poop.

[Elena]

Phooey.

[Ash]

But just a few nights later. Phooey. But just a few nights later, Hornsby was back at Bobby Mackey's. And this time, he was actually responding to the scene of an. Of an accident in the parking lot.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

And by this time, he and his partner. Or excuse me, sorry. By the time he and his partner were able to get the driver out of the car, the guy had unfortunately died. Oh, I know. And now was laying out on the pavement. So Hornsby didn't want to cause a scene, so he started looking around for something in his car that he could use to cover the body, like, and I guess before the first responders got there. And as he was doing that, he said this young woman came up to him and offered him a tablecloth off, like, the ones that they had inside the club. So he was just like, oh, wow, that waitress was so helpful.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Excuse me.

[Elena]

That's going to be great.

[Ash]

So after she handed it to him, she went back inside, and, you know, he just went about his job. But later, once the scene had been cleared, he went inside to go thank the woman for the tablecloth. And as soon as he got to the door, he realized it was locked, and it didn't look like anybody had been in the building for hours.

[Elena]

What a nice ghost, right? Wow. Yeah, that was nice.

[Ash]

And there were nice ghosts in there. That's the thing. There's some really fucked up ones, but then there's some nice ones.

[Elena]

Yeah, that one's nice. Here's the tablecloth.

[Ash]

I agree. So as spring turned to summer, Bobby was doing a bunch of renovations, and Bobby and Janet. And they were starting to, you know, come along slowly. Until a fire threatened to undo everything that Bobby had planned for the club.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

The fire started on the night of July 8, 1978. And when firefighters got the call, they were told that the fire was of an unexplained origin.

[Elena]

Ooh.

[Ash]

And that it had started in one of the older parts of the building. Now, according to the fire chief at the time, Edward Sendelbach, investigators had no idea, and still don't to this day. What started the blaze.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

But luckily, they were able to get it under control, and it didn't do too much damage to the club, but it did do some damage. The Damages totaled around $2,000, but they were enough to push back the official opening of the club a few more months.

[Elena]

Oh, and that sucks, because you're gonna lose some money on that.

[Ash]

You're gonna lose some money and you were so close to opening.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So later that summer, things at Bobby Mackie's Music World.

[Elena]

Bobby Magic. Oh, Bobby Mackie's. Oh, I couldn't say it. Bobby Mackie's Music World. I almost said magic world. Why do I want to say magic?

[Ash]

I don't know. It's like spirits. Yeah, that's the crystals.

[Elena]

That was rough. It took me three times and I still didn't say it right.

[Ash]

Maybe the fourth time is the charm.

[Elena]

I'm not meant to. I won't try again.

[Ash]

Oh, it's okay. That made me sad. You sounded so defeated. I'm not supposed to say that. I guess I'll just go fuck myself.

[Elena]

Because I want to say magic instead of music, and I don't want to.

[Ash]

Know Bobby Mackie's Music World.

[Elena]

There you go. You say it better for both of us, so I'm okay with it.

[Ash]

All right. Well, later that summer, things at Bobby Mackie's Music World.

[Elena]

There it is.

[Ash]

Were finally coming together, and everything was on track for their September opening. Janet and Carl, though, were still hearing weird fucking noises in the club.

[Elena]

Good.

[Ash]

But there hadn't been any more violent encounters.

[Elena]

Even better.

[Ash]

The one that Janet had in the kitchen with the blood in the hands.

[Elena]

Because that was violent for everybody.

[Ash]

Very violent.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But that all changed in late August. She went a little while without being violently attacked, but then she was violently attacked again in late August, and this time it was really scary because, remember, she's pregnant.

[Elena]

Oh, I forgot.

[Ash]

So this not only threatened her life, but the life of their unborn baby.

[Elena]

Oh, no, this is scary.

[Ash]

So according to Janet, she'd been cleaning the office on the second floor, and suddenly she got a weird feeling like she wasn't alone in the room. And as she swept her way back out of the office and onto the landing at the top of the stairs, she felt a man's hand grab her by the arm. Oh. And the shock of, you know, that happening and no one being there caused her to cry, out, out. And whatever had a hold of her actually let go momentarily, but then pushed her and caused her to stumble forward. And then a second push came from behind just seconds later. And that one sent her tumbling down the stairs, the entire flight of stairs.

[Elena]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ash]

She fell all the way to the first floor. And later she said when she glanced up, she thought that she saw the shadow of a man standing on the landing. And then it quickly disappeared.

[Elena]

Oh, that's fucked up, right?

[Ash]

So obviously that fucking terrified her. And at that point, she was Six months pregnant. Oh, my God. And looking back on it, she later said, I was so terrified because I thought I was going to lose my baby. Yeah, I was angry. I was terrified. I was everything. So obviously, taking a fall like that when you're pregnant is really concerning, no matter how far along are you. How far along you are. So they decided Bobby and Janet to go right to the er.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And. And Janet actually ended up having to be induced.

[Elena]

Oh. At six months.

[Ash]

At six months.

[Elena]

Holy shit.

[Ash]

So she gave birth to a baby girl who at the time, weighed only 1 pound and 15 ounces. Little squirt.

[Elena]

Oh, my goodness.

[Ash]

Now, the baby had to stay in the hospital for weeks, but then she was finally stable enough to go home with her. Oh, my God.

[Elena]

She lives.

[Ash]

She lives.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

Can you fuck? That is six months. Like, they were supposed to be in there another three months. Months.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

That's so scary.

[Elena]

That's really scary.

[Ash]

And even though there would, like, the immediate danger was totally behind them. Janet was done, and she refused to step foot in the club again.

[Elena]

And you know what's scary? It immediately made me think of him trying the other guy trying to induce a miscarriage with Pearl.

[Ash]

You're on to something, girlfriend.

[Elena]

Okay. Because I immediately was like, y. What the.

[Ash]

Isn't that so scary? It's really scary. Yeah. And you are onto something. So good, good, good. Following your vibes there.

[Elena]

Good job.

[Ash]

I just was like, good, good, good.

[Elena]

She just kept pointing at me.

[Ash]

Good, good, good job, good job. So after Janet's fall down the stairs, Carl started trying to talk to Bobby about what was going on.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

He was like, hey, dude, I tried to tell you before, like, this place is haunted. And, like, maybe we should try to find somebody who could get rid of these spirits.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like, Janet's not coming back here ever.

[Ash]

Yeah, there's that whole part of it. But Bobby was like, no, there's nothing. Nothing supernatural going on here. No, no, Bobby. I know. Well, one, he didn't want any bad publicity or rumors negatively affecting the business because, kidding me.

[Elena]

People love a haunt.

[Ash]

That's the thing that seemed to be, like, his thing throughout this whole journey of, like, not wanting to affect the business. But I was like, no, People love haunted.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. People would be there from all over.

[Ash]

You know how many most haunted things in the world there is?

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

A million.

[Elena]

So many.

[Ash]

But also, he hadn't experienced any of the supernatural phenomenon himself. And for that reason, he still didn't believe in ghosts.

[Elena]

I don't know. Bobby.

[Ash]

Bobby's a I gotta see it to believe it kind of guy.

[Elena]

Oh, boy.

[Ash]

So throughout trying to open the club, obviously there was a lot of setbacks. And the last one was a faulty sprinkler system.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

They realized it during the fire. And since that. Or excuse me. And since that posted a serious safety risk, the opening was pushed back yet again. So Bobby promised to the fire department and to the town that he would have it repaired. And in September, he was finally granted to. And in September, he was finally granted permission to open on October 27, 1978. Now, Bobby Mackie's music world of magic, of magic and grandeur had its grand opening with performances by Jack Reno, I think, think. And Bobby himself.

[Elena]

Oh, cool.

[Ash]

He's actually really talented. But unfortunately, the excitement of the grand opening was very short lived because in early December, Bobby got a written order of closure from the Kentucky fire, which gives me coyote ugly vibes.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

Because he failed to fix the sprinkler system, he was like, yeah, yeah, I'll get that fixed.

[Elena]

You're supposed to do that when you say you will.

[Ash]

Yeah, you definitely are. I guess he had like a lot of other things.

[Elena]

Can't pinky promise and then go back?

[Ash]

Yeah, no. Takes these backseats, Bobby. But the notice also specified not only would Bobby need to fix the sprinkler system, he would also need to fix any other faulty wiring. So now they were gonna have to go through the whole place and figure it out. And he was a bit worried because fixing those issues was one gonna be costly on top of everything else he'd already put into the club. And for the first time, he was starting to face the fact that he might need to start all over again from scratch. You know, he told the Cincinnati Inquirer, if it isn't feasible for me to go on with this place, I'm going to try to find another building close by. I'll definitely land on my feet. The club is something I've been really dedicated to in the last year and three months.

[Elena]

I believe in him.

[Ash]

I believe in him too. And you know what? You should have. Because fortunately, the interruption was only temporary and Bobby opened back up just a short time later without having to move the business, which.

[Elena]

Love that you got British there.

[Ash]

I don't really know why I did, but it happened. Crystals.

[Elena]

Crystals.

[Ash]

But I'm like, he opened up without having to move the business. Was that a good thing or a bad thing?

[Elena]

Yeah, probably a bad thing.

[Ash]

You decide.

[Elena]

I will.

[Ash]

You will?

[Elena]

I will.

[Ash]

Life doesn't happen bi weekly, so why should payday the money you earn can be in your hands today with Earn in. Earnin is an app that gives you access to your pay as you work up to $1 per day or up to $750 per pay period. Just download the Earn an app and verify your paycheck. Then access up to $100 a day as you work and leave an optional tip. Any money you access plus tips are automatically repaid from your next paycheck. I feel like this is so perfect because you know when you're low on cash, that's when these unexpected things pop up. Maybe an unexpected trip to the vet, God forbid. Maybe just like upcoming rent and you just forgot about it. In those moments when money isn't moving as fast as your dreams are, Earn in provides the financial momentum you need to keep moving forward. Download Earn in today, spelled E A R N I N in the Google Play or Apple App Store. When you download the Earn an app, type in Morbid under Podcast when you sign up. It'll really help the show. Morbid under Podcast subject to your available earnings, location, daily max and pay period max. Seen earnin.com to for detail earnin is a financial technology company, not a bank. Bank products are issued by Evolve bank and Trust member fdic. Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities and new ways of thinking. Find the genres you love and discover new ones along the way. Explore bestsellers, new releases, plus thousands of included audiobooks and original that members can listen to all they want, with more added all the time. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your daily routine without even needing to set aside any extra time. There's more to imagine when you listen. And let me tell you, if you're listening to a fantasy book on Audible, you're just gonna get in the zone. Honey. I've been listening to Slew Foot and the narrator has I say this a lot, but I really, really mean it here. She has a voice like butter and you are just absolutely transported back in time. It's incredible and 10 out of 10 recommend. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.commorbid or text morbid to 500500 that's audible.commorbid or Text morbid to 500500 to try audible free for 30 days audible.com. morbid now with the major problems behind them. Or so they hoped. Bobby's hard work did seem to be paying off again. The club was doing really good business, especially on the weekends, and it was getting really good reviews. But the supernatural experiences continued.

[Elena]

When you just said the supernatural experiences continued. Yeah, I was like, what does that sound?

[Ash]

I thought it was the roadcaster. And I was like, k me. I know.

[Elena]

I thought we were exploding.

[Ash]

You thought we were exploding?

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

What's happening?

[Elena]

Something fell off of something else and it made a weird noise. So I stopped and I listened and I watched.

[Ash]

That's. You're just so vigilant over there. I stopped and I listened and I watched. For real. If you thought we were going to explode. So you stopped, listened, and watched. I don't know if that was. That was quite the way to take care of that. I mean, what else was there to do?

[Elena]

What was I meant to do?

[Ash]

What was I meant to do? Are we keeping this in?

[Elena]

Why not? Something supernatural just occurred, I'm pretty sure.

[Ash]

All right. Well, the supernatural experience has continued. And now customers were beginning to experience.

[Elena]

Oh, shit.

[Ash]

Good thing we don't have any customers in here. Bobby was really trying to keep these paranormal rumors about the club from circulating because he thought it was bad for business. But Carl would tell anyone and everyone about the ghosts in the building. Hell, yeah.

[Elena]

Carl knows.

[Ash]

I mean, that's like. You gotta tell them what they're in for.

[Elena]

It's your number one selling point.

[Ash]

I think so. One night, one of the club's regulars, Mike Gruber, I think is, how you say it was, quote, making fun of Carl and his ghost friend. Oh, why would you do that? Well, he found out. He fucked around and he found out because he was making fun of Carl and his ghost friend there as he was riding the mechanical bull. Which is like a really bold time to make fun of someone else.

[Elena]

Very.

[Ash]

And as he was riding, the thing started to speed up, out of control.

[Elena]

My God.

[Ash]

And it reached full speed.

[Elena]

Oh, damn.

[Ash]

Mike called out, like, slow this fucking thing down, Carl. But Carl couldn't control the machine and had gone nuts. And Mike said it was like some force took control of the bull.

[Elena]

Yeah, the force you made fun of, man.

[Ash]

Well, listen, this is the only story that I doubt. I don't think this was paranormal. I think Carl said, you.

[Elena]

Thank you. I also thought that.

[Ash]

That's the only one that I doubt. Yeah, I think Carl was like, oh, my God, I can't control this. All of a sudden you're such a Dick.

[Elena]

It's like some force. And Carl's like, it's me. I'm the force.

[Ash]

It's. It's me. Hi, I'm the force. It's me.

[Elena]

I feel like, hi, my name is the Force.

[Ash]

But beyond the owners and the customers of Bobby Mackey's, even people who came to do work on the place experienced strange happening. Yeah. Stay away, stay away. One afternoon, a carpenter, Johnny France, which, like, what a fucking name.

[Elena]

Hey, I'm Johnny France.

[Ash]

I'd be like, yeah, you are. I feel like he was hot. Johnny France had to have been.

[Elena]

Johnny France has to be hot.

[Ash]

That would be so disappointing if, like, I didn't think he was hot.

[Elena]

Hot.

[Ash]

Yeah, because opinions. I didn't think. I didn't want to say, like, if he wasn't hot because, like, you might think he saw it, but, like, I might not. Opinions. Johnny France, you know? But he was alone in the main area of the club and he was doing some repairs. He was doing some, you know, Johnny France. Johnny France doing repairs. Oui. We. We were so, like, Italian.

[Elena]

And then we went, friends. Bonjour.

[Ash]

Johnny France.

[Elena]

Maybe he's happy enough. French.

[Ash]

Yep. But he was doing some repairs. And while he was working, he claimed that he saw, quote, an entire row of chairs fall over, one after the one after another, as if they were dominoes.

[Elena]

Maybe they were.

[Ash]

They weren't.

[Elena]

They were chairs.

[Ash]

And according to France, the chairs, quote, fell over as if something invisible was in the room, walking between the chairs and knocking them over.

[Elena]

Oh, that's spooky.

[Ash]

Isn't that so creepy?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And Carl had actually seen a very similar thing happen just a few weeks earlier. So this only solidified his feeling that the club was haunted.

[Elena]

Yeah, I'd say so.

[Ash]

Now, while the ghost story circulated among the patrons and the staff at Bobby Mackey's and the people that did work for them, everyone just seemed, like, amused by them.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But Carl, on the other hand, was getting increasingly obsessed with these hauntings.

[Elena]

Good for him, you know, like, live in. Have an interest, live in research. Yeah.

[Ash]

Now, one day while he was cleaning the basement, he noticed a loose floorboard. So he pulled it completely loose and he found a hiding place where somebody had hidden a diary.

[Elena]

Oh, jackpot.

[Ash]

Jackpot.

[Elena]

The dream. Literally the dream.

[Ash]

I am dying to stumble across a loose floorboard, loosen it all the way and find somebody. Old ass diaries.

[Elena]

Ancient ass diary. Hell, yeah.

[Ash]

Do I think you should read an ancient diary? Probably not. But, like, what I. Yes, probably. Most likely, yeah. All right. So according to Carl, the Diary belonged to Johanna.

[Elena]

Johanna.

[Ash]

And I sing that because Bobby Mackie wrote a song about Johanna in this whole thing.

[Elena]

And that's the song Johanna, Johanna.

[Ash]

It's way better than that. Also, he actually has a really good voice.

[Elena]

He does.

[Ash]

I don't know why I said actually. Like, I doubted him. But, yeah, like, you know what it is? I'm not really a country fan. I'll just say it.

[Elena]

I'm not at all. So I'll absolutely say that. But he has a wonderful voice.

[Ash]

He does. He almost has, like, folk.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Vibes. But country too.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Anyways, Carl found the diary of Johanna, a former showgirl.

[Elena]

Oh, shut the up.

[Ash]

Which, like, immediately resonated.

[Elena]

This is so good.

[Ash]

I love it. And she had worked at the club way back when. And as he read through the diary, the pieces of her life started to come together. Ever he read that Johanna had been in love with one of the club's musicians.

[Elena]

Shut up. Shut the fuck up.

[Ash]

We love a love story. But apparently her father was super against her having any feelings for this guy.

[Elena]

Totally disapproved.

[Ash]

Totally disapproved. Totally.

[Elena]

Star crossed lovers.

[Ash]

Star crossed lovers. And he was like, you can't have feelings for him. And you did. Like, which, like, you can't. Like, how do you forbid that?

[Elena]

He was like, don't feel things.

[Ash]

I was like, what? Like, I can't help that, Dad. I can't fight the feeling. Bringing it back to a place.

[Elena]

Okay. Bringing it to frozen.

[Ash]

But he also was like, you definitely can't pursue them. One, you can't have those feelings. And two, you better not pursue them.

[Elena]

Don't.

[Ash]

Now when he found out that they were carrying out a relationship secretly.

[Elena]

You made it forbidden, man. You made it better.

[Ash]

Yeah. And he forbid them again. He was like, I forbid you, Johanna, Johanna, from seeing this man ever again. And actually, I'll kill him if you see him again. I'd be like, dad, I'd be like, you're kind of homicidal and it's really weird.

[Elena]

That's a lot.

[Ash]

So later, this musician disappeared without a trace. Oh, and Johanna. Johanna immediately suspected her father.

[Elena]

Well, yeah, he said he would kill him. I would suspect him as well.

[Ash]

Same Z. So she poisoned her dad and then she took her own life. And she vowed. She vowed, I said, to roam the halls of the nightclub until forever waiting for the musician to return.

[Elena]

I'm sorry. 1. What a. What a climactic ending there, right?

[Ash]

I thought that she wanted to haunt the place. Not that she killed her father, you.

[Elena]

Know, but also, give Me that diary.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

Give me that diary. Because that is a better story than I could ever come up with.

[Ash]

So, like, basically, I'm trying to go to Bobby Mackie's music world. Yeah. You want to go?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I don't have any other reason to go to Kentucky other than for Bobby.

[Elena]

Mackie's music world of magic. Magic. Magic, she said.

[Ash]

But in a pretty short time, Carl realized Johanna was one of the friendlier ghosts.

[Elena]

Wow. Yeah.

[Ash]

Maybe she was murderous, but only for.

[Elena]

People that poisoned her dad.

[Ash]

But happens he may have been a murderer.

[Elena]

Maybe.

[Ash]

You know, we don't know. Allegedly.

[Elena]

That's the best part of it, is maybe, perhaps, maybe she really took a chance, though.

[Ash]

Yeah, I bet she knew she rolled.

[Elena]

The dice, you know? But he.

[Ash]

Carl was like, nah, like, that's my girl. And he even actually started to come to see her as a friend and a protector.

[Elena]

I love that.

[Ash]

But at the same time, he was like, I don't know, like, maybe she was the one responsible for the attacks on Janet.

[Elena]

Oh, Johanna.

[Ash]

Because he was like, maybe she was pregnant at the time of her death and she resented Janet's pregnant presence in the club.

[Elena]

I mean, figure doesn't sound like you had any evidence to that fact, but, like.

[Ash]

No, literally. But he was theorizing.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And he figured that was the motivation behind the attacks.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

Now, I should say in the years since Carl supposedly found Johanna's diary, nobody was actually able to find any evidence that she ever existed. And there's also no evidence of the murder of her lover.

[Elena]

That makes me upset. But not that she didn't murder someone, but that like. Or that, like, her dad didn't murder someone, but, like, I wanted Johanna the showgirl to exist. I think she might have, like, a Johanna that wrote a diary and then hid it under the floorboards.

[Ash]

Yeah. Yeah. So I believe in Carl is what I'll say.

[Elena]

I'll believe in Carl.

[Ash]

Yeah. I think Johanna existed.

[Elena]

I mean, I think we're taking that, like, pregnancy thing to a. Yeah, that. To a speculative place, but.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if it's her pushing Janet down the stairs. Let's not blame. Sounds like a man.

[Ash]

Well, right.

[Elena]

I don't think it was Johanna. Johanna.

[Ash]

But the thing is, Carl was going to realize that in due time. Okay.

[Elena]

All right. Eat a Carl. Smart.

[Ash]

So a lot of people, not including me, were skeptical. What did I just say? Skepticable.

[Elena]

A lot of people were skeptical. You were skeptical?

[Ash]

No, I wasn't skeptical. What did I even say. I can't even say it again.

[Elena]

Skepticable.

[Ash]

Skepticable. No. A lot of people, not myself included, were skeptical. Yeah, you got it. About whether or not Johanna ever existed.

[Elena]

You can't say her name without singing it.

[Ash]

I can't. It's Bobby Mackey. He. It's the magic of Bobby Mackey's music world. It overtook me.

[Elena]

It's the Mackie.

[Ash]

It's the magic. So. But, okay, so. So they were skeptical about if she existed or not. But there actually is verifiable proof of the other two ghosts that Carl believed were haunting the club.

[Elena]

Awesome.

[Ash]

So the night after he discovered Johanna's diary, Carl, who was living in a space above the club at that point, like a little apartment, he woke up from a deep sleep and couldn't breathe.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

So he slowly started being able to breathe again. But as he got, like, all of his breath back, the power in the entire building went out, which meant that he had to go down to the basement to reset the breakers.

[Elena]

No, thank you.

[Ash]

So he did, because he was like, I have some ghosts up in here that like me.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But as he was down there, he happened to notice yet another loose floorboard in the basement.

[Elena]

Look at this, man.

[Ash]

I know. Now, when he pulled at that one, it revealed a hatch covering that deep well.

[Elena]

Shut up.

[Ash]

That had been used by the former slaughterhouse to drain the blood and the fluids from the animals.

[Elena]

Oh, my goodness.

[Ash]

And he said as he stared into the well, which, like, in general, I would never recommend.

[Elena]

No, don't stare into a well.

[Ash]

He started to feel an evil presence surrounding him in the basement. And it was so freaky to him that he literally fled back upstairs into his apartment. Apartment.

[Elena]

I just had this really scary feeling of falling into that well.

[Ash]

Yeah, I don't like that for you. That's why I don't recommend looking into.

[Elena]

Nose for a while. I'm out of there.

[Ash]

Take a quick peek and then say, well, gotta go.

[Elena]

No, I'm. I'm not going anywhere near that.

[Ash]

No, I don't recommend that.

[Elena]

I don't want to be anywhere near it. Do what you have to do. Take a picture.

[Ash]

Must don't even take a picture.

[Elena]

Not me. Someone else. Take a picture. I'll. I'll look at the picture.

[Ash]

It'll last longer. And that's not necessarily.

[Elena]

I just don't want to fall in it. That.

[Ash]

Ooh. Get out of there.

[Elena]

I know. Oh.

[Ash]

Get out of that well.

[Elena]

I'm trying.

[Ash]

Get out of that well. I was listening to waves By Tam Impala this morning and Miguel. I don't know what happened.

[Elena]

I don't know what happened.

[Ash]

I don't know. So in the days that followed, the discovery of the well, which I never recommend looking into. Like I've said no, Carl. And this is why I don't recommend looking into. Wells became erratic and unpredictable. Yeah. Looking back, Bobby recalled again, got to the point where I wouldn't know which Carl I was talking to. I'd have to talk to him for a little while to figure out how to deal with him because he always seemed to be different.

[Elena]

Poor Carl.

[Ash]

I know he was going through it because the thing was, when he discovered the well, Carl became convinced that the stories that he had heard about Pearl Brian's head were true.

[Elena]

Which it could be. And it doesn't necessarily need to be like, satanic.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Elena]

It could be they just threw it in the well because they knew no would ever find it.

[Ash]

Exactly. Now, he was worried about the malevolent spirits in the club. And he was worried that they were. Wait, I fucked that up. Sorry. He was worried that the malevolent spirits in the club were actually Pearl's killers.

[Elena]

Yes.

[Ash]

Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling. I agree. Now, he figured and understood that they were probably the ones who attacked Janet. Because remember, Pearl was also pregnant when they killed her. Because they didn't want her to be pregnant.

[Elena]

Yes.

[Ash]

And now Carl was really worried that Alonzo and Scott would not stop until they had driven everyone out of the club for good.

[Elena]

I fully believe this.

[Ash]

Me too. So his instinct was to get the out of there and never come back again.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But at the same time, he was worried about leaving Bobby and Janet because it kind of sounds like he, like, really thought of them like family. Carl, he was fully convinced that the bit the building and the land were evil, but he just cared too much about them to leave them behind.

[Elena]

That's precious.

[Ash]

And that's why I love car. Carl in Carl we trust. Now, as we all know, at this point, since buying the property and owning the club, Bobby had completely dismissed any claims of this place being haunted. But in the weeks following the discovery of the well in the basement, he just couldn't ignore the fact that something was causing Carl a whole lot of distress. Yeah. Or the fact that his wife had never been comfortable at the club and now refused to return.

[Elena]

There's that.

[Ash]

But at the same time, he was still mindful or like, thought that the rumors could affect the business. But he also wanted to cause it. Wanted to relieve whatever was causing Carl So much stress.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So he reached out to his friend Doug Hensley, who was a paranormal researcher and who was actually living in the area at the time.

[Elena]

This is a good friend.

[Ash]

I know. And Doug was like, you know what? I will do whatever I can to help you. Now. This is wild.

[Elena]

Oh, man. I'm strapped in.

[Ash]

So during his research, because, you know, he likes research just like us, and Dave Hensley came across, like, numerous stories of the tragedy and the death that occurred on the property where the club once stood. But the one that stood out to him the most was the murder of Pearl Brian. Hell, yeah, obviously. So he dug deeper and deeper into the story, and he found out that while those two killers stood on the gallows waiting for the door to drop out beneath them, them, One of them vowed that he would come back and haunt everyone involved in the trial and the place where Pearl's head had been left.

[Elena]

Guys, her head is in that well, right? Her head is in that well.

[Ash]

I actually don't know if it was.

[Elena]

No, it is. It is 100.

[Ash]

Oh. I was. I had this to be true. I was like, no, I fully believe that. I believe it.

[Elena]

It makes sense.

[Ash]

I think they probably just, like, can't get back there.

[Elena]

It might just be too deep. Who knows how far that goes down?

[Ash]

Exactly. So between the discovery of the well and the other haunted happenings at the club and the changes in Carl's behavior, Doug Hensley became convinced that Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling were haunting the club and were determined to destroy Carl Lawson specifically.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

I think he must have been, like, an empath.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

Like an empath. No, I think he just was one.

[Elena]

This is wild.

[Ash]

So Doug really wanted to resolve this issue for everyone, everyone involved. So he reached out to a local psychic medium, Patricia Michelle. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Hold for applause.

[Elena]

Absolutely.

[Ash]

Like, of course. Like, Patricia Michelle. What a great name. Now, she claims that she has the ability to communicate with the dead, and she has had that ability since she was a child. And as soon as she got to the club, she told everyone there, which I respect, that she didn't want to know anything about the property. She didn't know anything about the history and didn't want to. And she wanted them to stay completely silent while she took a walk around and looked at things.

[Elena]

Hell, yeah.

[Ash]

So in one room, she actually did get the impression of the spirit of a woman who said her name was Johanna.

[Elena]

Johanna. I knew it.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

I knew she was coming.

[Ash]

She was real. Now, according to Patricia, Johanna knew that she was dead and said that she wanted to stay at the club to wait for her boyfriend to join her.

[Elena]

Whoa. Where's her boyfriend?

[Ash]

ME Thinks Carl was right after all. Yeah. I don't know. So what if he, like, actually never died and he just left and went somewhere else?

[Elena]

Wow. That would suck.

[Ash]

That would suck real bad. Like, I think the dad killed him.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Now, after touring the upper floors of the club, Carl, Bobby, and Doug went with Patricia down into the basement, where she got an entirely different and way more aggressive feeling than she had in the room with Johannes.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

Now, Patricia told them that she could see the room, quote, like it used to be.

[Elena]

Ooh.

[Ash]

And she was referring to when it was originally configured as the basement of the slaughterhouse. So Carl pulled back the hatch on the floor to show her the dark shaft that used to be the well. And Patricia said that inside she saw Pearl's head floating in the well, and she backed away from it. Like she, like, visualized it.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

Now, later, she talked about the experience. And she said. Said, I felt like I was spinning. I couldn't wait to get out of there.

[Elena]

I'm telling you. I am telling you, they put Pearl's head in that well.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

I know it.

[Ash]

So back upstairs, Patricia filled everyone in on what she saw as she walked the building. And she told them, I think what is in Bobby Mackey's nightclub are ghosts that believe there is no place for them to go. So they would prefer to live in this nightclub than to go on to a place where they may burn for eternal eternity.

[Elena]

Because they're. Exactly.

[Ash]

Some of them.

[Elena]

Some of them like the guys.

[Ash]

Exactly. And Johanna's probably afraid because, you know, like, she did kill her down.

[Elena]

Yeah, there's that.

[Ash]

But she also explained that she did believe Scott and Alonzo were specifically targeting Carl.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And she said they were using him as a conduit for their rage and causing him mental anguish in the process.

[Elena]

Poor Carl.

[Ash]

I know, right? So she said the only solution would be to have a priest or a minister come out and bless the space face. And to have an exorcism for Carl.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

So Bobby, after all of this, y'all still didn't believe in ghosts?

[Elena]

I mean, one thing about Bobby is that he's gonna stand his ground.

[Ash]

That's one thing about Bobby.

[Elena]

You're not gonna sway Bobby.

[Ash]

Two things about Bobby. He's gonna stand his ground and write a great song called Johanna. Johanna.

[Elena]

Those are two things about Bobby.

[Ash]

Two things about Bobby. Three things about Bobby. Though he's a good friend.

[Elena]

He is. I feel that About Bobby.

[Ash]

He is. So he agreed to find somebody who could help them with an exorcism because he was worried about his friend.

[Elena]

Hell, yeah.

[Ash]

So it took some time and, you know, a few uncomfortable conversations with people, but eventually he came across this guy that he knew, Larry Kidwell, who thought that he might know someone who could help. Larry happened to work in television and radio advertising, and the reason he actually knew Bobby was because they had worked on a commercial for the nightclub together.

[Elena]

Amazing.

[Ash]

And they just, like, stayed in contact ever since then. They weren't really close by any means, but Larry knew Bobby well enough to know that he was not joking when he explained what had happened to Janet and what was actively happening to Carl. Yeah, but like Bobby, Larry was pretty skeptical and had a hard time believing in something he couldn't see or experience himself. But at the same time, willing to give the benefit of the doubt and willing to reach out to his friend Glenn Cole, who was a local pentecostal minister who might be willing to help.

[Elena]

Oh, good.

[Ash]

So unlike Bobby and Larry, Glenn Cole actually had no trouble believing that the club was haunted.

[Elena]

That's one thing about Glenn.

[Ash]

That's one thing about Glenn for you. According to Larry, Rev. Cole explained spirits and demons don't possess buildings, but they do exist in structures where people live or come and go. So they can possess those humans when they choose.

[Elena]

That sucks.

[Ash]

Now, given the history of the property and like the whole myriad of tragedies that happened on the site, Reverend Cole was like, yeah, I think it's entirely possible that this place is haunted. And more importantly, he felt a very urgent need to meet with Carl to. To determine whether he was in spiritual danger or not.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So a few days later, he got to Bobby Mackey and he wanted to talk to Carl and kind of take a look around the place. Just like Patricia Michael show. Now, almost immediately, Reverend Cole felt uncomfy. And Doug Hensley remembered meeting this reverend for the first time. And he said. He told me this was the most evil sight that he'd ever stepped foot on in his entire life. And it was full of evil.

[Elena]

Whoa. That's kind of redundant.

[Ash]

But like I thought you were going to say, that's kind of evil.

[Elena]

That is pretty evil, though. Yeah.

[Ash]

Evil.

[Elena]

Well, when you think about it, when you told me the pearl Brian story, it's like they did. They killed her by decapitating her.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

She died getting her head sawed off. Huh. That is the most evil you can possibly imagine.

[Ash]

Absolutely.

[Elena]

So, like that.

[Ash]

Pregnant.

[Elena]

And she was pregnant.

[Ash]

And this used to be a slaughterhouse. Like animals used to be killed.

[Elena]

Really bad happening, right?

[Ash]

And multiple people have died on this property.

[Elena]

Like, damn.

[Ash]

Yeah, there a lot has gone down. So after he heard about Carl's experiences at the club, the reverend said, I've been doing this for years, and I'm telling you, Carl Lawson is demonically possessed.

[Elena]

Oh, man.

[Ash]

So days later, on the evening of July 20, 1982, Bobby Mackie took the stage with his band because he said the show must go on at Bobby Mackie's Music World of Magic.

[Elena]

Hell yeah.

[Ash]

And he was gonna perform for a packed house of country music fans in the nightclub.

[Elena]

That's another thing about Bob. Bobby.

[Ash]

The show must go on. Bobby. Now, the band had been playing for like a little bit when Carl, who was working that night, caught a whiff of smoke from somewhere in the building. And minutes later, one of the patrons yelled something out about a fire and the band immediately stopped playing. So from the stage, Bobby was like, please just like exit in a calm and orderly fashion. Like, we gotta get everybody out of here calmly.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And to his surprise, everybody actually exited the building calmly without the slightest hint of panic.

[Elena]

That doesn't sound human to me.

[Ash]

Me either. Now, as the patrons filed out of the club, Carl tracked the smoke to a small fire in the kitchen.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

In the wilder fire department were just arriving as Carl and Bobby were able to put the fire out themselves with extinguishers. And just a short time later, they were given the all clear from the fire department to just go on with that night's performance.

[Elena]

What? What? Where did that fire come from?

[Ash]

Well, the right bra from third love can make any outfit look better fast. Their bras make it easy to bring back lift to get a smooth look or stop your shirt buttons from pulling. They don't just solve your bra problems, AKA Brah blums. They look and feel amazing and come in over 60 sizes. They even invented half cup sizes for a perfect fit. I just got the 247 wireless bra and I absolutely love it. So comfortable, super supportive and gives me the lift that I need. Take advantage of their Black Friday sale with up to 50% off site wide and daily deals like wireless bras starting at just $15. It's too good to miss. So visit thirdlove.com now and get your problems solved. Bobby was surprised, but also happy that most of the patrons who had been hiding in the or hiding, waiting in the parking lot. They were eager to come back inside because they also believed that the show must go on.

[Elena]

They were hiding up There. Then they were like, surprise. We lit the fire. Funny.

[Ash]

Didn't start the fire.

[Elena]

We started the fire. That's funny. Little side note. Fall Out Boy made a new. We didn't start the fire because they thought it needed an update. Because a lot of shit has happened since the last one that you could say really fast, like Billy Joel.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Elena]

I saw it on the news this morning, and I was like, all right, that's cool.

[Ash]

Okay, I like that. I'm excited to hear that. My screen name used to be Fallout Girl. 1996.

[Elena]

Hell, yeah.

[Ash]

Word. Carl, on the other hand, he couldn't help but wonder if the fire had a more sinister origin than just, like, a simple kitchen fire.

[Elena]

I also couldn't help but wonder that.

[Ash]

Me either. He wondered if the evil spirits that. That, you know, were haunting him were threatened by the reverend's presence a few days earlier, and now this fire was them trying to prevent him from coming back to the club. Yeah, Carl knows what's up.

[Elena]

Carl does.

[Ash]

But a few days later, Reverend Cole did come back to the club to perform the exorcism that would maybe rid Carl and the nightclub of the spirits that haunted them. Now, Carl was surprised to find that the reverend was accompanied by a reporter and three cameraman.

[Elena]

Were you surprised?

[Ash]

Not cool. But Reverend Cole said, you know, they were just there to document things, quote, just in case anything happens. Yeah, if I was crawl, I'd be like, am I gonna die?

[Elena]

Like, I don't know about this.

[Ash]

So he was worried about the reporters being there, and he told the reverend that he was also worried about getting hurt. But the reverend was like, no, listen, I've done this a ton of times. Nothing to worry about. He said, I've been in the ministry for 18 years, and I've come close to seeing it all.

[Elena]

Come close, Close, but you've seen it all.

[Ash]

Not quite.

[Elena]

There's some stuff I haven't seen.

[Ash]

Still uncomfy with this.

[Elena]

I'm like, that could happen here a little bit.

[Ash]

You might actually see it all here tonight. So for that reason, Carl was apprehensive, but he was also hopeful, and he was, like, ready to do this. So he led Reverend Cole and the reporters to the old kitchen, and that's where the exorcism was going to be performed.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

Now, the room at that point was mostly being used for storage, especially since the renovation, so the men had to push all the clutter out of the way before they could set up. Now, once they figured they had adequate space, they set up a table And Carl was to sit just across from Cole, the reverend. And he started reciting a prayer and asking for the Lord's help in cleansing the space of its spirits. Now, within a matter of minutes, Rev. Cole said he started to notice a change in Carl's body language. I guess his palms were pressed really hard into the table and his head started nodding up and down. And he, quote, began mumbling something under his breath in a low and different tone of voice.

[Elena]

Oh, I don't like that.

[Ash]

I don't like it either. It gives me Esteban from the Suite Life of Zack and Cody. And that episode fucked me up when I was little.

[Elena]

I have no idea what you're talking about, but I imagine it is uncomfortable.

[Ash]

If you're a zillennial, you know. Now, while Reverend Cole went on with his prayer, Carl was having a hard time talking, but continued his raspy breathing. And I guess that started like right after Cole began reading from the Bible. He started like doing a weird raspy breathing. Now he. Cole kept going on, commanding the spirits, trying to guide them out, you know, La dee da do. And as he was talking.

[Elena]

You're not gonna perform an exorcism right now?

[Ash]

No. The I'm not.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

Their spirits here then cool. But Carl's eyes seemed, he, the reverend said, to be completely fixated on him. The reverend. And finally Carl spoke in a strange voice and told the reverend, quote, they'll get me while I'm alone in here. Oh. Which like, I have goosebumps right now.

[Elena]

Oof.

[Ash]

Now for some, like, that's the thing, this like really fucking creeped me out. But the reverend believed that the voice was intended to trick him and like, prey on his sympathy. Like it was coming from a spirit and not Carl. Oh, right. So the exchange between the reverend and the spirits that seemed to be inhabiting Carl's body went on for what seemed like hours with the reverend praying over call Carl, who seemed resistant to what this guy was saying. But finally Carl's body seemed to start jerking and spasming as Reverend Cole continued to command these spirits to leave his body. And then finally Carl fell limp. And moments later, he looked up at the reverend and said, I feel different. Something in me has changed.

[Elena]

Oh, I hope better, right?

[Ash]

So he smiled and he seemed pleased that the exorcism appeared to have worked. Now, outside the kitchen, Larry Kidwell watched as the four newsmen walked out of the room. And they all had kind of like disappointed looks on their faces.

[Elena]

I think cuz they were hoping someone would die.

[Ash]

Exactly. You Know, and, you know, he understood why. He also expected a big spectacle from the exorcism, like something you'd see in the movies. But instead, the whole thing kind of seemed to end with, like, a whisper and a bang.

[Elena]

I love it. They're like, oh, man, it worked.

[Ash]

God damn it.

[Elena]

That guy is fine. Fine.

[Ash]

But sensing Larry's disappointment, Reverend Cole made sure that everyone was out of earshot and then told Larry, it isn't over, Carl. Or a spirit was lying to me. The spirits aren't gone. Carl was either protecting them because he's terribly afraid, or he doesn't want them to leave. Oh, this was not the end. And apparently, like, in some, like, reiterations of the story, that's where it ends. Like, with Carl, like, in that moment being cured. But then me and Dave found other versions of the story where all of this happens. So a few weeks later, Reverend Cole returned to Bobby Mackey's yet again, and he wanted to finish what he had started a week earlier. Now, the second exorcism was said to be a hell of a lot more difficult and taxing than the first one. According to Doug Hensley, it took weeks with the Reverend praying over Carl while he just, like, writhed around in agony.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

And in one instance, after one of the prayer sessions, Carl was alone in his room. This is really gross and, like, really scary. And he noticed his underwear had been soaked in what seemed like blood. So he went to the bathroom to check himself out, and he realized he was bleeding from hemorrhoids that seemingly had developed instantaneously.

[Elena]

What the.

[Ash]

Like, he didn't have them before he was getting exercised, and now all of a sudden he had them and they were bleeding insanely.

[Elena]

Maybe that's like the demons coming out.

[Ash]

Perhaps. Doug Hensley said it was not just ordinary hemorrhoids. These were tremendous in size. Growing, growing and spreading like poison ivy. Big boy hemorrhoids. Tremendous. They were big, y'all. I'm sorry. It was the tremendous hemorrhoids for me. Tremendous hemorrhoids growing in size.

[Elena]

Like, what a shitty way to get possessed.

[Ash]

No pun intended.

[Elena]

Like, honestly, no pun intended. That sucks, right?

[Ash]

So Carl was obviously in a full blown panic and started crying out to the spirits, and he was like, listen, I promise I will keep the reverend from returning if you just stop hurting me. Like, this is hard.

[Elena]

I feel so bad for Carl.

[Ash]

I do, too. We were not laughing at Car.

[Elena]

We were not laughing at Carl. I was laughing at the description of that. Like, tremendous is a wild adjective to Use. I don't know why.

[Ash]

Doug Hensley, Wild man.

[Elena]

He's a wild guy.

[Ash]

Now, after a week of no haunting or demonic activity after this, because everything, like, got put to a standstill.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Carl was starting to think that his promise was successful in keeping these spirits at bay. But then Reverend Cole and Larry Kidwell showed up unexpectedly and apparently threatened to destroy the little amount of peace that Carl had managed to find for himself.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

Now, I guess he, like, Carl was like. For a minute, I was, like, not gonna let them into my apartment. And he figured he could run or hide from them until they went away, but at the same time, he knew that's what the demons wanted. And as long as he did what they wanted, he was never gonna be free from this. My God. So he let them inside, and he walked with them to the kitchen. Larry set up the cameras and left the room. Now, as soon as Reverend Cole started back up his prayers, Carl was really, really upset. And Cole was like, listen, this is gonna be like. I know it. Like, we're so close. Just stick with me here. But Carl said, but what about Johanna and Buck, referring to the former showgirl and the owner of the Primrose. And he told the reverend, they don't bother anybody.

[Elena]

Oh, my God, Carl.

[Ash]

And that's when Reverend Cole realized that this was what he kind of figured all along. There was some part of Carl that didn't want the haunting to end because he really cared about those two spirits, and he become attached to them over the past three years. Years. So they got, like, an argument about it, and Carl insisted that Johanna, I.

[Elena]

Missed it the last time.

[Ash]

And Buck wanted to stay with him. And Reverend Cole was like, listen, they're not gonna find any peace, and neither are you unless we let them move on to the next. Whatever. So before they were able to reach an understanding, Carl's voice changed dramatically. First to this weird snarl of a man calling himself Sam Tucker, and then to the rasp of another entity, who Reverend Cole knew to be Charlie. And that was another one of the spirits inhabiting Carl's body. Now, they cycled through one entity after the other and insisted they didn't want to leave and demanded that Reverend Cole cease his attempts to exercise them from Carl's body. So it went on that way for hours with all of these entities, like, confronting Reverend Cole. And then he was just, in turn, praying over Carl, demanding that they leave. And finally, after hours of this and shouting, Carl's body began to jerk and spasm again in response to the reverend's Word, Words. And this time, he forced his hands on the table, pushed the chair way back from the minister, trying to escape the exorcism, actually. But at that point, Reverend Cole grabbed Carl, held him tightly, finished his prayers one by one. And all of the spirits left Carl. Carl's battered body at this point, until all of them were gone.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

No, I just said yeah. Now, later, after the reverend had left, Carl actually finally felt like he was truly alone in the club for the first time in three years. Wow. Or even more, because he had worked there even before now. The thought of never feeling Johanna's presence, though, again disappointed him.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

But he remembered what Reverend Cole had told him. Reverend Cole told him, when a spirit or spirits are cast out, they search the world over looking for a new home. But if they can't find one, they return to their old house. And if that house isn't clean and filled with another spirit, they'll return with seven more. Oh, and that person is much worse off than before. It's very important that you start going to church. Church. You have to fill yourself with Lord Jesus. And more importantly, you can never entertain these spirits again. If you ever feel their presence, you have to pray for the Lord to wash and cleanse you. You have to resist them.

[Elena]

I was with you for part of that. Yeah. Could you tell that I was seven spirits. I was like, oh, shit. Like, that sounded nice before.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Because it was like, oh, it'll come back.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

And be like, hey, I'm home. But then it was like, it has seven with them.

[Ash]

Yeah. You don't want that?

[Elena]

Like, No, I don't want that.

[Ash]

And then I also don't want anybody to demand that I go to church.

[Elena]

Yeah. Or that I'm going to be haunted for the rest of my life.

[Ash]

Like, it's fine. You can go to church because. Don't tell me I have to.

[Elena]

Don't demand it of me.

[Ash]

Get out of here, Reverend Cole. You've done enough.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So throughout the late 70s and 80s, Bobby Mackey went out of his way to, as we know, keep those rumors of demons and ghosts from spreading and negatively affecting the business. But by the 90s, word had spread because, you know, there was a whole ass exorcism in his restaurant.

[Elena]

Yeah, that'll get around.

[Ash]

Or nightclub. Excuse me. Word had spread, and there was really no way around the fact that now people were actually more interested in the ghosts than they were in the country and the western music.

[Elena]

Yeah, you know, it's fine.

[Ash]

And in the fall of 1993, Bobby Mackie's music World of Magic was actually sued by a patron who claimed that he was a attacked by a ghost while in the club.

[Elena]

I'm a little obsessed with that.

[Ash]

A real lawsuit. Oh, you just wait babe.

[Elena]

You just wait babe.

[Ash]

You just wait babe.

[Elena]

Hang on tight.

[Ash]

According to the suit, Junior Costigan went to Bobby Mackey's and quote, walked around the club during a myth daring a mythical ghost that has become legend at the club to show itself. He then claimed that he went into the men's bathroom and quote, a dark haired man appeared to him with a rope dangling around his neck and attacked him, punching him and kicking him. Then dissolved into the air. This is a real lawsuit. I love it here. So in his suit, he was seeking a thousand dollars in damages for pain and suffering and demanded that a sign be posted in the club warning of spectral danger.

[Elena]

Honestly, that sounds awesome. A warning sign that says like warning spectral danger.

[Ash]

Well, I'm glad you like that because.

[Elena]

It comes back awesome.

[Ash]

But before that, that Bobby. Bobby's lawyer, W. Robert Lotz filed one of the most unusual motions to dismiss. Written in poetic verse.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

As follows. Give me some bongos. The PLF claims in his petition he was assaulted by an apparition injured by a ghostly nemesis on Bobby Mackey's premises.

[Elena]

I'm so obsessed with this.

[Ash]

Where beard and brazen he did blunder by taunting their super supernatural wonder, proclaiming loudly his resistance to belief in spiritual existence. Alas, this essence disembodied followed the plaintiff to Dem's potty.

[Elena]

Shut the up.

[Ash]

Where the dark haired haunt with neck and noose soundly clicked. Sorry. Soundly kicked complainant's drunk caboose. That's really you guys. That's for realsies.

[Elena]

Followed the plaintiff to Demens party. Soundly kicked complainants drunk caboose.

[Ash]

Caboose.

[Elena]

I'm pretty obsessed with this.

[Ash]

Demen's potty is my favorite part.

[Elena]

This is reckless. This is my favorite story on the planet.

[Ash]

But even though the tone was mocking and you know, the format of the dismissal was a bit unusual, Locks insisted he was taking the case very seriously.

[Elena]

I mean, I guess you got to.

[Ash]

He told reporters someone showed up and filed the suit. I was hired to treat it as legitimate. I'm convinced that my clients were not involved in this.

[Elena]

They're not the ghosts, so that's fine.

[Ash]

So they're not. Now ultimately, I'm sure you'll be shocked to hear that this case was thrown out of court. Well, the guy just like the guy who filed the lawsuit failed to show.

[Elena]

Up for the hearing.

[Ash]

I think, you know, maybe he had other things going on that day or was maybe embarrassed that he filed a suit against a fucking invisible force.

[Elena]

He hydrated and was like, I don't think I should follow through on that.

[Ash]

He had a liquid IV and thought better of his claims. But actually, Bobby did agree to put a sign up behind the bar that reads, and it's still there, warning to our patrons. This establishment is purported to be haunted. Management is not responsible and cannot be held liable for any actions of any ghosts or spirits on this premise.

[Elena]

That's amazing.

[Ash]

I love that. He was like, you know what? Fuck it.

[Elena]

I will. Yeah, I'll put up a sign.

[Ash]

Yeah. So by the late 90s, he seemed actually like a lot more accepting of the paranormal activity surrounding the nightclub. And in the years since the suit, Bobby Mackie's music world has been featured on a ton of television shows like Hard Copy, Geraldo, the Jerry Springer Show. I don't really know how it fit into there. A Haunting and A Current Affair. And like other pods have covered the case. Actually, it was one of the first episodes I listened to of. And that's why we drink when Ed covers.

[Elena]

I love that.

[Ash]

And I was like, oh, When I was doing it, I was like, why have I heard this story before? And then I was like, oh. So listen to their episode too, because it's fantastic. And tons of articles have been written about it. But today the club still operates as out of its original location on Linking Plank. But customers, they can only expect to get a beer and hear some music on Fridays and Saturdays. They can still catch Bobby Mackey and his best damn band. That's what they're called.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

Play their regular set, but only on the weekend.

[Elena]

Go.

[Ash]

The rest of the week is reserved for haunted tours, Hell yeah. Paranormal investigations, and even sleepovers. Haunted ones. Who's in?

[Elena]

I'm obsessed with the fact that Bobby Mackey just leaned the in.

[Ash]

He spent at like 20 years essentially being like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then was like, eh, fuck it.

[Elena]

Another thing about Bobby Mackey, he's going.

[Ash]

To lean in eventually. Eventually, eventually. Now, sadly, Carl no longer works at the club, but he does continue to share his experiences of the hauntings. Janet continued managing the club. Actually she did step foot in there again until the early 2000s. But unfortunately she did pass away in February of 2009 after a long illness. I know.

[Elena]

Oh, Janet.

[Ash]

And she died in the home of their daughter. Oh, I know.

[Elena]

Their daughter that was born at six months.

[Ash]

Yes, Isn't that nuts? Full circle. Now, Bobby maintains that he has still never had a paranormal experience in the bar or anywhere else. And he.

[Elena]

Another thing about Bobby, he's.

[Ash]

He sticks to his word.

[Elena]

He's never going to have an experience.

[Ash]

No. And he's never going to believe in ghosts. He still doesn't when it comes to the club. He says, I don't know if the place got a hold of me, but if that's a supernatural, natural experience, then so be it. I'm gonna stay here. Bobby Mackie, a legend.

[Elena]

A true legend.

[Ash]

I don't really know much else about him other than his magic world.

[Elena]

I literally have never even. I don't know a damn thing about him. Except for this.

[Ash]

And Johanna. Now, Johanna. Johanna.

[Elena]

It'll stick in your head. Go listen to it.

[Ash]

Right? I'm obsessed with this story.

[Elena]

A story with more twists and turns than anything than I could have ever expected.

[Ash]

And, like, weirdly fun.

[Elena]

There's so much fun hauntings. The true tragedy is the Pearl Brian.

[Ash]

Story, which, like, that's not.

[Elena]

I did not see that coming.

[Ash]

No. Right.

[Elena]

Like, that is a wild story.

[Ash]

Wild story. And Johanna.

[Elena]

And Johanna, if she exists.

[Ash]

She does. How dare you question her existence?

[Elena]

But yeah, yeah, the Pearl Brian one really shocked me. I mean, that's brutal.

[Ash]

And the fact that they. The killers Scott and Alonzo there literally were like, yeah, we're gonna haunt this place forever. Like the gala.

[Elena]

Oh, fuck.

[Ash]

Spooky.

[Elena]

But then I'm also like, has anyone opened that?

[Ash]

Well, girl, it's okay. I'm just kidding. Girl, I was just kidding. I love us.

[Elena]

So funny. Why has anyone opened that? Well, and like, no, but like, it's like, I wonder.

[Ash]

I know.

[Elena]

You know, like, I've seen. I looked up pictures of it. It looks like it's sealed off. And I'm like, someone opened that. Well, someone opened that and put something down there to go. Like a long camera on a. On a string and go, tell me. And go tell me what's down there.

[Ash]

Right? I want to know.

[Elena]

Cuz I want her. I want her to also, like, maybe you could like, reunite her with her body.

[Ash]

Like, give her like a proper burial.

[Elena]

Yeah, like I want to know.

[Ash]

I want to know. Hopefully. Well, maybe. Hopefully I can update it someday.

[Elena]

Let's update.

[Ash]

We can be able to unseal it.

[Elena]

And I'm like, who is. Are there descendants of Pearl that would be like, you know, they deserve to have that done.

[Ash]

I know.

[Elena]

I need to find this out.

[Ash]

Let's find out.

[Elena]

Let's figure it out. Wow. That was a. A wild tale.

[Ash]

A wild tale. And Dave is a big fan of this story. So he did like a incredible job on the research with me.

[Elena]

Dave.

[Ash]

And I love him.

[Elena]

I love Dave too.

[Ash]

And I love him. And we hope you keep listening.

[Elena]

And we hope you keep it weird.

[Ash]

Keep it as weird as Bobby Mackey. I love this guy. He seems great. Yeah, I hope. I know, right? If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Elena]

Hotshot Australian Attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own.

[Ash]

She's going to all the major groups.

[Elena]

Within Melbourne's underworld and she's informing on them all. I'm Marcia Clark, host of the new podcast Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created.

[Ash]

She just didn't know how to stop.

[Elena]

Now, through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informants Lawyer X exclusively on Wondry. Join Wondry in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts or Spotify and listen to more. Exhibit C True crime shows early and ad free right now.