Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1) - Morbid

Summary6 min read

Morbid Podcast Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1) - Detailed Summary

Introduction

Morbid, a true crime and creepy history podcast by Morbid Network | Wondery, delves into the dark and twisted tale of Jean Harris and the murder of Herman Tarnower in Episode 651. Hosted by Ash and Alayna, the episode intricately weaves Jean Harris's life story, exploring her upbringing, personal struggles, and the complex relationship that ultimately led to a tragic crime.

Early Life and Family Background

Jean Harris, born Jean Struven on April 27, 1923, was the second of four children in a wealthy Cleveland, Ohio, household. Her parents, Albert and Mildred Struven, provided her children with a privileged upbringing, complete with private schooling and household help. However, beneath the surface of affluence lay deep familial tensions.

"From an early age, she felt like she could never really live up to the high standard of her older sister, Mary Margaret, who was described as the family's good girl." ([12:32])

Jean's relationship with her father, Albert Struven, was fraught with conflict. Despite his brilliance and success, Albert was often perceived as a "champion tyrant, bigot, and snobby," exhibiting a notorious temper that was frequently unleashed over minor inconveniences. This volatile environment fostered constant competition among the siblings, with Mary Margaret being the only child Albert seemed to approve of.

"Shortly before her dad died in 1980, Jean put it pretty simply when she said, 'My father should not have had any children.'" ([14:25])

Jean's mother, Mildred, contrasted her father's harshness with her own stern yet nurturing demeanor. She instilled in Jean the values of respect, kindness, and the importance of intelligence over materialism.

Education and First Marriage

Jean excelled academically, finding solace and approval in her studies, which became her refuge from her tumultuous home life. She attended Smith College in Massachusetts, studying economics and minoring in Spanish. During her time at Smith, Jean maintained a relationship with Jim Harris, whom she met in high school. Jim's enlistment in the Naval Air Corps stationed him in the South Pacific, but their correspondence through letters kept their bond strong.

In 1946, Jean and Jim married and moved to Michigan, where Jim's conservative nature clashed with Jean's vibrant personality. Despite familial opposition—particularly from Jean's disapproving father—the marriage began with hopes of defying familial expectations. However, Jean later confessed that her primary motivation for marrying Jim was to rebel against her father rather than love.

"I was raised by my mother, but my father was almost never home, which is sad." ([13:08])

Jean's marriage to Jim was marked by domestic challenges, especially after Jim's widowed father moved in with them, increasing Jean's responsibilities at home. The birth of their two sons, David and Jimmy, further strained the marriage, compounded by Jean's struggle with postpartum depression—a condition poorly understood and stigmatized in the 1950s.

Divorce and Pursuit of Independence

By the early 1960s, Jean's dissatisfaction with her life and marriage became evident to those around her. The decision to divorce Jim in 1965 was driven by a desire for personal fulfillment and professional advancement. Jean sought to enhance her career, securing a position as the director of the middle school at Springsdale, an elite all-girls prep school in Pennsylvania, significantly increasing her income and social standing.

"Jean was determined to be the perfect housewife. But she also wanted to keep her regular job, which was she was a teacher at Grosse Pointe Country Day School." ([27:31])

Despite the financial difficulties posed by limited child support and her estranged father's refusal to assist, Jean remained steadfast in providing for her sons' education and future. Her move to Springsdale symbolized her commitment to rebuilding her life and distancing herself from her past.

Encounter with Herman Tarnower

In late December 1966, Jean attended a dinner party hosted by her friend Marge Jacobson in New York, where she met Dr. Herman Tarnower, a prominent cardiologist known for his charisma and professional success. Their initial interaction was marked by intellectual and romantic chemistry, leading Jean to believe she had found her ideal partner.

"Dr. Herman Tarnower. He was a charming man with an unyielding devotion from everyone around him." ([42:13])

Tarnower's attentiveness and the opulent lifestyle he embodied captivated Jean, rekindling her dreams of love and companionship that she felt were missing in her marriage to Jim. Despite only spending one evening together, their connection deepened rapidly, with Tarnower expressing his desire to continue their relationship through heartfelt letters and gestures.

"Dr. Tarnower was a man of superior intelligence and education, warm-hearted and passionate, yet protective." ([37:56])

Jean's growing affection for Tarnower led her to marry him in March 1967, uprooting her life once again and relocating to New York. However, the relationship was fraught with underlying tensions, particularly Tarnower's reluctance to commit fully and his continued pursuit of other women.

Emerging Tensions and Harassment

As Jean tried to balance her demanding career at the Madeira School, her deteriorating health due to chronic back pain, and her strained relationship with Tarnower, harassment began to escalate. Anonymous callers started making threatening and obscene remarks, ultimately leading Jean to suspect Tarnower's involvement.

"Jean started receiving harassing phone calls at home and at work, anonymously insulting her and referencing Tarnower's affairs." ([79:35])

These harassing behaviors, including slashed clothing and feces found on her garments, intensified Jean's paranoia and depression. Her attempts to dismiss these incidents often led to confrontations with Tarnower, who remained emotionally distant and unresponsive to her pleas for understanding.

"Jean's feelings of jealousy were often exacerbated by the overlapping presence of her and Lynn in Dr. Tarnower's life." ([77:13])

Jean's reliance on prescription painkillers, specifically Dysoxin (methamphetamine), further complicated her mental state, making her more susceptible to anxiety and obsessive behaviors.

Conclusion of Part 1

Part 1 of the episode sets the stage for the impending tragedy by painting a vivid portrait of Jean Harris's life—her early struggles, quest for independence, and the complex dynamics of her relationship with Herman Tarnower. The escalating harassment and Jean's deteriorating mental health hint at the dark events that are to unfold, leading listeners to anticipate the gripping continuation in Part 2.

Notable Quotes

"Shortly before her dad died in 1980, Jean put it pretty simply when she said, 'My father should not have had any children.'" ([14:25])
"Her mother would tell her, 'A curtsy doesn't mean one doggone thing. I want you to always look people in the eye and tell them the truth. Measure people from the neck up, Gene.'" ([16:39])
"After leaving Jim, Jean and the kids moved in with one of her close friends, Jody Blaine." ([35:03])
"Most of the time, Gene took whatever Herman was willing to give, but otherwise focused her attention on her career." ([76:24])
"When feces enters the chat, you leave." ([86:03])

Speaker Attribution

Ash: One of the hosts of Morbid, providing narrative and analysis.
Alayna: The other host, contributing personal insights and reactions.
Shane Alexander: Journalist commenting on Jean's character and circumstances.
Marge Jacobson: Jean's friend who hosts the pivotal dinner party.
Jephthah Sherman: Jean's lawyer assisting in her divorce.
Leslie McDougal: Jean's friend who provides insights into her marriage.
Sig Gerhardt: Psychiatric social worker concerned about Jean's well-being.

Timestamp Highlights

[12:08]: Introduction to Jean Harris and the episode's focus.
[14:25]: Jean's feelings about her father's abusive nature.
[16:39]: Influence of Jean's mother on her character.
[27:31]: Jean's dedication to her teaching career.
[37:56]: Tarnower's introduction and initial courtship.
[42:13]: Jean's fascination with Tarnower's charisma.
[77:13]: Onset of harassment and its impact on Jean.
[86:03]: Escalation of harassment with feces on clothing.

Conclusion

Part 1 of Morbid's Episode 651 skillfully navigates Jean Harris's journey from a privileged yet troubled upbringing to her tumultuous marriage and eventual relationship with Herman Tarnower. The episode highlights the psychological complexities and societal pressures that shaped Jean's life, setting the foundation for the ensuing dramatic and tragic events. Listeners are left anticipating the resolution and deeper exploration of the motives and consequences that culminate in the infamous murder case.

Stay tuned for Part 2 of "Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower" in Episode 652 for the continuation and conclusion of this riveting true crime story.

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Transcript980 lines

[00:00]
Ash
Hey, weirdos, it's Ash. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about the spooky perks of Wondery. It's like having a skeleton key that unlocks ad free listening and early access to new episodes. So don't wait. Try Wondery today. You can join Wonder plus in the Wondery app or in Apple podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a morbid network podcast. Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out uncertainty, self doubt, stressing about not knowing where to start. In plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out word art. Sorry. Live laugh lovers. In knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today.
[00:51]
Alayna
Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Green Light, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids spending. With real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight risk free today@greenlight.com Wondery hey, weirdos.
[01:24]
Ash
I'm Ash.
[01:25]
Alayna
And I'm Alayna.
[01:26]
Ash
And this right here, you bitches, is morbid.
[01:29]
Alayna
You bitches. It's morbid.
[01:43]
Ash
It's Valentine's Day.
[01:45]
Alayna
It is.
[01:46]
Ash
I sounded pissed about that. I'm not.
[01:48]
Alayna
It's Valentine's Day.
[01:50]
Ash
Valentine's Day. Yeah. No, I'm happy about the. The Valentine's Day of it all.
[01:56]
Alayna
I love Valentine's Day. Not because, like, we do anything, really.
[01:59]
Ash
No, we're not. Like, we'll do like, a little something. Like, I woke up to a cute little, like, array on the counter this morning.
[02:04]
Alayna
Oh, see, that's cute.
[02:05]
Ash
Yeah, we don't always. Honestly, I. I gotta, like, be real here. Drew is a lot better at Valentine's Day than I am. Like, I. I usually wake up to something and then I'm like, oh, fuck. I didn't. I'm gonna, like, run out later and get you, like, discount candy. I don't know why I said candy like that, but this year I did really good.
[02:24]
Alayna
Hell, yeah.
[02:24]
Ash
I went a little. I went. I, like, upped the ante this year.
[02:27]
Alayna
See, John and I usually, like, go really hard to, like, make the kids, like, a cute little Valentine's thing.
[02:36]
Ash
I feel like when you have kids, it becomes more about, like, the holidays? Yeah.
[02:40]
Alayna
And it becomes, it becomes like super fun again because like it becomes like super kid again and that's always fun.
[02:46]
Ash
I know the magic of all the holidays. Like obviously like Christmas is like insane when you have kids. But even just like Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's Day even.
[02:54]
Alayna
Yeah. Like we. So I always like our bathroom that they brush their teeth in. That's like essentially like you know, the kid bathroom. Yeah, it like cuz they've demolished it.
[03:05]
Ash
Oh, do you decorate it?
[03:06]
Alayna
I decorate it for all the holidays so like I'll and I don't go like, you know, it's not like I go nuts. Like I just get stuff like some little banners and like, you know, sometimes I'll throw like a balloon in there.
[03:15]
Ash
Like that dollar section.
[03:17]
Alayna
Yeah, like the dollar section has a lot of cool stuff. So like it's super easy to be able to do it. Or like Michael's has a lot of stuff in case she gets a thing and I want to do it. Yep. The little things are what I literally just put a banner up that says be mine. And some of this like tinsel, like this like red tinsel.
[03:32]
Ash
Cute.
[03:33]
Alayna
And then I think I had like a little heart like stuffed animal on the counter.
[03:37]
Ash
I love that.
[03:37]
Alayna
And just in their bathroom. So we do it for like everything. Like we try to like just throw like a little banner in their bathroom just to make like the morning exciting when they brush their teeth.
[03:45]
Ash
I like St. Patrick's Day when you put green dye in the toilet and you see the leprechauns peed and they fly.
[03:50]
Alayna
They fucking love that.
[03:51]
Ash
I'm co opting that when I have kids.
[03:53]
Alayna
It's so easy.
[03:53]
Ash
Yeah.
[03:54]
Alayna
And it's. They love it. Yeah. And we do like, you know we do leprechaun toast for that like where we just put like lucky charms and like frosting on toast so they get to have like a wild ass breakfast.
[04:04]
Ash
That's the shit I can't wait for.
[04:06]
Alayna
It's fun. And then like I stayed up until 2am last night making cause I got a cricket.
[04:14]
Ash
This bitch is a cricket enthusiast.
[04:17]
Alayna
It is fun as fuck when you figure out how to do it. It is so satisfying. And so I stayed up until 2am I found they had like the girls already had like plain pink shirts, like long sleeve shirts that they never really like grab or they're just sitting in their drawer. And I was like, ooh, I can bedazzle these.
[04:35]
Ash
Let me make this a shirt you.
[04:36]
Alayna
Want to wear sat up until 2am making them little Valentine's Day shirts. And they were psyched this morning.
[04:41]
Ash
Oh.
[04:41]
Alayna
So it was like. And then I made their lunches all like heart themed.
[04:45]
Ash
Shut up.
[04:45]
Alayna
Like, I got these little heart like cutters for their sandwiches and they make them like an uncrustable. So they're like seal off the sandwich. They're really cool. You can find them on like anywhere really.
[04:55]
Ash
I so heavy with an uncrustable.
[04:57]
Alayna
And it's fun to make your own because you can make it different shapes and stuff.
[05:00]
Ash
Yeah, you can put whatever.
[05:01]
Alayna
It just makes like a fun lunch. And then like, I just got some like heart shaped and like pink stuff and all that.
[05:06]
Ash
Did you cut the strawberries into little heart shapes?
[05:08]
Alayna
No, I didn't do that this morning because I did a trail mix instead of strawberries today. But it was like a pink themed trail mix.
[05:15]
Ash
Hell yeah, brother.
[05:16]
Alayna
Yeah, it was fun.
[05:17]
Ash
Let's go.
[05:17]
Alayna
It's a lot of fun. And then John usually, and I always forget he'll get me flowers.
[05:22]
Ash
Oh, yeah.
[05:22]
Alayna
A lot of times.
[05:23]
Ash
Yeah.
[05:24]
Alayna
Like, he'll have them delivered. And then I end up forgetting and being like, oh, we don't. Because we're always like, we don't do anything.
[05:29]
Ash
I know.
[05:29]
Alayna
Like, why'd you do that? And he's like, I have to.
[05:31]
Ash
No, it's relatable.
[05:32]
Alayna
Yeah.
[05:32]
Ash
I feel like, you know, you just do what you can.
[05:35]
Alayna
You do what you can.
[05:35]
Ash
I got you like a random Lego set. So I love that big into Lego. So I'm like, any occasion I'll just get you a fucking LEGO set. Yeah.
[05:42]
Alayna
Usually it's as you get older and as you, like kids come into the picture or even if they don't, I feel like it just becomes one of those, like, it's a nice day.
[05:50]
Ash
Yeah, it's just fun.
[05:51]
Alayna
Yeah.
[05:51]
Ash
I want to get one of those Dunkin Donuts donuts today. That has the brownie batter in the middle.
[05:57]
Alayna
Oh, fuck. Yeah. Why didn't we get those?
[06:00]
Ash
Because I got. I'm getting something delivered.
[06:02]
Alayna
I already ordered it.
[06:03]
Ash
What?
[06:04]
Alayna
She just. She just raised her eyebrows at me and Mikey and Mikey is shimmying, which is exciting.
[06:09]
Ash
Did you just see the full mobility in my eyebrows? Yeah, they move now. Yeah. Guys, I stopped getting. I stopped getting it. It. I'm. I'm in recovery from both. From both. Yeah. Yeah.
[06:20]
Alayna
You're. You're. I love your face.
[06:22]
Ash
Thank you. That's so nice. I'm working on loving it too.
[06:25]
Alayna
You should.
[06:26]
Ash
I should, but, yeah. I ordered some crumble cookies.
[06:29]
Alayna
Oh, yay.
[06:30]
Ash
And they're all fun. Valentine's Day.
[06:32]
Alayna
Oh, I'm excited.
[06:33]
Ash
There's one that's like a strawberry cake. Oh, on the. It's like, you know when you get a cupcake and you, like, rip the bottom off and you make it a sandwich or like that?
[06:42]
Alayna
Yeah, I love that.
[06:43]
Ash
Yeah. Hell yeah.
[06:45]
Alayna
Well, we have. You know, this is an exciting day and. Bitch.
[06:49]
Ash
It's been an exciting week or two.
[06:51]
Alayna
Yeah. So I'm. I'm. I'm without words. She's through the roots. Happening this week.
[06:58]
Ash
Retweet.
[06:59]
Alayna
So the last episode, you guys probably noticed that Andrew McMahon was on the show.
[07:04]
Ash
Fucking wild.
[07:05]
Alayna
Andrew McMahon from Something Corporate. Jack's Mannequin. Andrew McMahon in the wilderness.
[07:08]
Ash
All of the above.
[07:09]
Alayna
You know, posters when I was 16 in my room.
[07:13]
Ash
Yes, those as well.
[07:15]
Alayna
I have a something corporate tattoo. It was my first tattoo I ever got. He came here to the stew. Like, he came. He's. We had such a blast with him. Like, he flew from California here. We went out, like, we went out to dinner. We got to hang at the studio. Like, he was amazing.
[07:34]
Ash
He's just like a pal.
[07:35]
Alayna
I know. Like, immediately I was like, wow, I do feel like I've known you since I was 16.
[07:40]
Ash
You kind of have. And I've known him since I was six years for going by that logic.
[07:44]
Alayna
Yeah, it was great. And it was very funny because, like, he was telling us that he listens to the show, so hopefully you're listening now.
[07:52]
Ash
Hi, Andrew.
[07:52]
Alayna
Because it was very surreal to me.
[07:56]
Ash
Oh, yeah.
[07:57]
Alayna
Cause I was such a big something corporate fan when I was younger, and I still am. And Jack Smanigan, Andrew McMahon in the wilderness. And it's funny that to be in that phase of life and then to sit with him and talk about being parents together is, like, surreal in a way I can't describe. Like 16 year old Elena, if you told her you're gonna sit in your house or at dinner with Andrew McMahon and talk about parent shit together, I'd be like, what are you talking about?
[08:29]
Ash
Cannot compute.
[08:30]
Alayna
What are you talking about? It was just. It was really lovely and he was lovely and it was a great experience.
[08:35]
Ash
And it was a fun episode.
[08:37]
Alayna
A very fun episode. We talked about dancing plagues. If you haven't listened to it, go check it out. It's, you know, it's interview. And it's also we about some, like, funny, like, and crazy dancing plagues of history.
[08:48]
Ash
And even the interview, he has answers.
[08:51]
Alayna
Oh, absolutely. It's a great episode.
[08:52]
Ash
Inviting nuns.
[08:53]
Alayna
And we talk about fucking the devil a lot. So you should definitely listen to it.
[08:57]
Ash
You know, like a regular morbid episode.
[08:58]
Alayna
Regular episode.
[09:00]
Ash
Doing butt stuff with the devil or fucking the devil.
[09:02]
Alayna
So that was fucking amazing. And I hope you guys enjoy that episode a lot. And, you know, hopefully someday we have him back on, because it was a blast. Yes.
[09:10]
Ash
And we forgot to have him sign. Andrew, if you're listening, you do have to come back. We forgot to have you sign our hand.
[09:16]
Alayna
You know, if you wear. Not our hands.
[09:18]
Ash
But he's like.
[09:19]
Alayna
He's like, no, thank you.
[09:20]
Ash
He's like, I think I'll come back. That we have people sign when they come into the office.
[09:25]
Alayna
If you guys have seen the movie, Talk to me. Which if you haven't, go watch it. Because it's an Australian film, horror film. And it's brilliant.
[09:32]
Ash
A24, right?
[09:33]
Alayna
I think it is. Yeah.
[09:34]
Ash
Is it?
[09:34]
Alayna
Yeah.
[09:35]
Ash
Yeah, it is, right?
[09:35]
Alayna
I was like, wait, there's a hand in it. That is like a main plot device of the movie. And we have the hand in the office. Yeah.
[09:43]
Ash
It's fun.
[09:44]
Alayna
And we've been having people sign it. Like we had Bridget sign it when she came. And we were gonna have Andrew sign it. Cause we're trying to have all our guests sign it. And we forgot. So now you have to come back.
[09:54]
Ash
So we'll don't have a choice. We'll have our people call your people.
[09:58]
Alayna
So that happened. That was amazing. And then we have another amazing thing happening. You guys are getting a bonus episode this week. In fact, tomorrow. It's coming out wide to everybody.
[10:14]
Ash
Wide and isn't it wide?
[10:15]
Alayna
And it's a simultaneous release, so everyone's getting it at the same time. It's a bonus episode on top of our two episodes.
[10:21]
Ash
Happy Valentine's Day.
[10:23]
Alayna
Happy fucking Valentine's Day. Because, guys.
[10:25]
Ash
Well, I guess that'll be later.
[10:26]
Alayna
But this is a fucking banger of an episode.
[10:32]
Ash
It's gonna be. We haven't actually recorded it yet, so it's gonna be really interesting to see if Elena's alive afterwards.
[10:37]
Alayna
Y. You're gonna have to see if I survive this one, because that's all we can say. I'm very excited to record it. We're gonna be recording it in the next few days. And, ah, it's a big deal. So, like, be on the lookout. If you're listening to this episode right.
[10:55]
Ash
Now, set an alarm.
[10:57]
Alayna
Know that tomorrow in the future, tomorrow, a banger of an episode is being released to everybody as a bonus.
[11:07]
Ash
Big things are happening.
[11:08]
Alayna
It's our Gift to you and also a gift to me.
[11:12]
Ash
When they say, treat yourself. Elena went.
[11:14]
Alayna
I treated myself.
[11:16]
Ash
When Bigger went home. She did not go home.
[11:18]
Alayna
Yeah, I did not.
[11:20]
Ash
I went big. It's wild, so be on the lookout for that.
[11:23]
Alayna
It's very exciting. Very awesome. This has been a week that I can't quite grasp.
[11:28]
Ash
I don't think you ever will. No, I think that's all of our bid. Nasty.
[11:33]
Alayna
Yeah, I think so.
[11:34]
Ash
AKA business. Yeah. And with that, we'll get into it. Let's go. It was a very exciting intro and super happy. We're like, oh, my God, it's Valentine's Day. This is a story about two lovers. It's not happy or celebratory or any of the above, but no one expected that, I think. Yeah, I would hope not. You came to the wrong place if that's what you were looking for. It is an interesting story, and I'll tell you, up at the top, it's going to be two parts. Part one is definitely going to be a little bit longer than part two because there's a lot of kind of setup that we have to get through.
[12:09]
Alayna
Okay.
[12:10]
Ash
So this is going to be titled, if you're listening, Gene Harris and the murder of Herman Tarnower. So we're going to start with Jean first. Gene was Jean Struven was her maiden name. She was born April 27, 1923. She was the second of four children born to Albert and Mildred Struven. Isn't that a fun last name?
[12:32]
Alayna
Yeah.
[12:33]
Ash
From an early age, she felt like she could never really live up to the high standard of her older sister, Mary Margaret, who was described as the family's good girl.
[12:41]
Alayna
Mary Margaret just seems like a good girl name.
[12:44]
Ash
Yeah, she's gotta be. Despite feeling like the underdog a lot of times, Gene did remember her early life fondly. Albert and Mildred raised the family in Cleveland, Ohio, and they were definitely wealthier than most families at the time. They had a maid, a laundress. The kids all went to private school.
[13:01]
Alayna
Oh, damn.
[13:02]
Ash
Yeah, they were doing well. In 1983, Jean said, I was raised by my mother, but my father was almost never home, which is sad.
[13:08]
Alayna
That is sad.
[13:09]
Ash
And while she looked back on most of her memories from childhood with a certain fondness, it wasn't without its traumas. Her dad, Albert, by all accounts, was a very brilliant, very successful man. But he also was remembered by most as a, quote, champion, tyrant, bigot, and snobby. Oh, so, like, not somebody I want to hang out with.
[13:29]
Alayna
I was gonna say none of those things sound good at all, but no.
[13:33]
Ash
Go off but successful, I guess.
[13:35]
Alayna
Yeah, that's usually the case.
[13:38]
Ash
His temper was notorious and bouts of anger rage were set off by. By very minor inconveniences, which is not great when you have children because I'm sure that comes with a lot of inconveniences.
[13:48]
Alayna
I also think that's such like. Like get it together.
[13:51]
Ash
Yeah.
[13:52]
Alayna
Whenever adults, like go off the handle at the smallest thing, I'm like, I don't know, children can figure it out. So why can't you? Yeah, well, like, we don't tolerate that from children, so I don't know why we're tolerating it from adults.
[14:04]
Ash
And as a parent, your kind of entire job is to teach kids not to do that. So how are you going to teach them not to do that when you're doing it yourself?
[14:11]
Alayna
Yeah, just like figure out emotional regulation, man. Yeah.
[14:14]
Ash
It sounds very of the time, though.
[14:16]
Alayna
Oh, for sure.
[14:17]
Ash
Very. A father of the time.
[14:18]
Alayna
Very of the time.
[14:19]
Ash
Yeah. Shortly before her dad died in 1980, Jean put it pretty simply when she said, my father should not have had any children.
[14:26]
Alayna
That's so sad.
[14:27]
Ash
It is. Especially as his child saying that. Yeah, she did love him. She admired his intelligence, but she also recognized that he was a very unhappy man. And a lot of his anger and temper came from basically like taking out his own disappointments on other people.
[14:44]
Alayna
Like his. His feelings of unfulfillment kind of thing.
[14:47]
Ash
Exactly. One of Gene's oldest friends said. I think Gene admired her father very much and she also hated his guts. He was cold, ever complaining, impossible to please, autocratic and nasty.
[14:58]
Alayna
It's so sad that like. Like children just autumn, like have this natural thing of loving their parents. Even when their parents are like, oh, it's an ain't so awful to them. You know what I mean? Like, it's. It's like it's almost sad because you.
[15:12]
Ash
Have to learn, I think, sometimes to unlove your parents for your own.
[15:16]
Alayna
I can.
[15:16]
Ash
Peace of mind. Well being.
[15:19]
Alayna
That was a deep statement.
[15:20]
Ash
It was a little bit deep, yeah. You know, and relatable, but yeah. Anyway. The home environment in general, mostly thanks to Albert, was one of constant competition because he set his kids up against each other and just tension because he was always angry.
[15:33]
Alayna
Yeah.
[15:33]
Ash
The only one of his kids who he seemed to approve of was Mary Margaret. She was the oldest. And like I said earlier, Gene just could never measure up to her, no matter how hard she tried, which is really sad.
[15:45]
Alayna
I hate that idea of kids, like, trying to measure up to each other.
[15:48]
Ash
Yeah, you're all. You should all be equal and yeah, you should be loved.
[15:51]
Alayna
You're each your own thing.
[15:53]
Ash
Yeah.
[15:53]
Alayna
Like you're your own entity, and we.
[15:55]
Ash
Love you because of that. That should be the message. But this type of environment was probably where Jean developed some of her worst and what would become most harmful instincts, especially when it came to pleasing men. Yeah, I mean, things like that are set up.
[16:09]
Alayna
She's being programmed to.
[16:10]
Ash
Yeah, that's.
[16:11]
Alayna
Her whole life is trying to please a man.
[16:13]
Ash
But at the same time, she also developed more positive perspectives, especially from her mom when she was young. I love this. Her mom would tell her, a curtsy doesn't mean one doggone thing. I want you to always look people in the eye and tell them the truth. Measure people from the neck up, Gene. Yeah, bitch. She sounds like a bad bitch. I love that. I think that quote is fucking great. Damn you. Measure people from the neck up. A curtsy don't mean one doggone thing.
[16:40]
Alayna
That's badass. I like that.
[16:42]
Ash
I love doggone.
[16:43]
Alayna
No, not one doggone thing.
[16:44]
Ash
Nope. So while her father was pretty terrible overall, Jean's mother was stern, but in a different way. And she could learn a lot from her. And it was from Mildred that she learned to treat others with respect and kindness and to actually value things like intelligence and talent over just money and social status. I love that they had money and they had social status, but her mom was like, these, these are important things. But intelligence and kindness and respect are.
[17:10]
Alayna
Going to take you far.
[17:10]
Ash
Are more important.
[17:11]
Alayna
Yeah.
[17:11]
Ash
Yeah. So for the rest of her life, these two very enormous influences would be at war inside of Jean and play a pretty critical role in her adult life.
[17:20]
Alayna
Yeah. Because they're very, like, conflicting, very conflicting ideals.
[17:24]
Ash
Yeah. In elementary school, for example, she studied hard, she did really well. But she never wanted to let her intelligence be seen as a bad thing. But the lessons that she learned from her parents that helped her succeed academically kind of became a hindrance when it came to making friends. She was smart, she was very pretty, very well liked to a degree. But there was also distance between her and her peers. One classmate, who seems like a very surface level individual, recalled, I never could be fond of Jean because she wasn't interested in clothes, styles, all the giggle dumb things that we used to do, and boys. She hardly seemed to care about them at all. It's like, yeah, first of all, not everyone is attracted to the opposite sex. Gene was, but, like, that's a weird.
[18:05]
Alayna
Thing to go off like that. I don't know if that really should be part of your entire personality style.
[18:11]
Ash
Like.
[18:12]
Alayna
Like, your likability is based on whether you're, like, obsessing over boys and your appearance, like, makeup and shit. It's like, oh, good luck with that.
[18:21]
Ash
Damn school, though. Quickly became Jean's refuge, where. Because there she got the approval and praise that she was really craving from her father.
[18:28]
Alayna
Yeah.
[18:29]
Ash
But never got. Later she would say, I loved school. I loved having a star on my forehead when I was little. I loved sitting in the sunroom of our big house and doing my homework. And I loved my teachers.
[18:39]
Alayna
Oh.
[18:39]
Ash
Which really tells you that, like, she got everything she needed there. And then going home, like, creeped.
[18:47]
Alayna
That. Yeah. Which is which Also, kudos to those teachers.
[18:49]
Ash
Hell yeah, we like, hell yeah teachers. But she threw herself into academics and extracurriculars. She joined as many clubs as she possibly could, attended as many school events as she was able to, mostly as a means of avoiding her dad.
[19:02]
Alayna
Yeah.
[19:02]
Ash
But ultimately, she built up a really impressive resume by the time she graduated high school.
[19:07]
Alayna
Good for her.
[19:07]
Ash
Yeah.
[19:08]
Alayna
I have no idea what this case is, by the way, so I am just, like, fully riding this way. I literally don't know what happens. I've never heard of this.
[19:16]
Ash
Yeah.
[19:17]
Alayna
Just putting that out there. So if I'm sitting here being, like, good for her, I don't know. If she does something later, I don't know what happens.
[19:23]
Ash
Well, it's very, you know, like. It's like when we say you can be sad for the child or you can. You can say good for her for who she was at one point before all. Whatever happens, Jean lost her way.
[19:35]
Alayna
Okay.
[19:35]
Ash
But it's a lot more complicated than that.
[19:37]
Alayna
Okay.
[19:37]
Ash
It's. This is a very layered story. I ultimately don't agree with what she does ever.
[19:45]
Alayna
But there's a lot of layers to it.
[19:47]
Ash
There's a lot of layers to it. This is not. There's a lot of gray area in the story.
[19:51]
Alayna
Yeah. I just wanted to be clear that I'm like, I don't know what happens.
[19:53]
Ash
Honestly. Good to say that at the top.
[19:56]
Alayna
No. No one think I'm, like, praising someone that I know what they did.
[19:59]
Ash
No.
[19:59]
Alayna
Well.
[20:00]
Ash
And right now you're praising her for the good things that she did.
[20:02]
Alayna
That's all you do.
[20:03]
Ash
And when we get. When we get to the. We're gonna get to a part, and I think you and I'm gonna feel well. And I think you and I are gonna have very similar opinions okay. There's a. There's a fall from humanity.
[20:16]
Alayna
Oh, wow.
[20:16]
Ash
Yeah. So after. But we're not there yet. After her graduation in 1941, Jean enrolled at the Smith College in Massachusetts.
[20:23]
Alayna
Oh.
[20:23]
Ash
She studied economics there and she actually minored in Spanish. Damn. Like her high school experience. She threw herself into those studies completely in her free time she sang in the glee club and she joined the water ballet team.
[20:36]
Alayna
Water. Is that just like.
[20:37]
Ash
I think it's a swimming.
[20:40]
Alayna
I don't know.
[20:41]
Ash
Probably.
[20:41]
Alayna
Probably.
[20:42]
Ash
I didn't know water ballet was a thing. Sounds beautiful, but now that I think of it, is that at the Olympics.
[20:48]
Alayna
Synchronized swimming.
[20:49]
Ash
Synchronized swimming.
[20:50]
Alayna
I could be wrong. Maybe it is called water ballet.
[20:53]
Ash
Artistic swimming.
[20:54]
Alayna
So yeah, I think it used to be called synchronized swimming.
[20:58]
Ash
Yeah.
[20:58]
Alayna
But I think artistic swimming sounds better for sure.
[21:00]
Ash
It definitely does.
[21:01]
Alayna
And it's definitely more what it is.
[21:03]
Ash
I guess you could probably do it solo.
[21:04]
Alayna
Yeah.
[21:05]
Ash
Because then technically it wouldn't have to be synchronized. Yeah. So look at us, we really worked through that there.
[21:09]
Alayna
Look at us. We logic our way through.
[21:12]
Ash
But while she wasn't engrossed in her schoolwork, she spent her time writing to her boyfriend Jim Harris, who she'd started dating while she was still in high school. After graduation, Jim went and joined the Naval Air Corps and was stationed in the South Pacific. So they really stayed in touch primarily through letters. And toward the end of Jean's junior year at Smith, Jim got leave and arrived on the Smith campus to surprise Jean and asked her to marry him once the war was over.
[21:37]
Alayna
Wow.
[21:37]
Ash
Which is so romantic.
[21:38]
Alayna
That does sound very romantic.
[21:40]
Ash
It's very short lived.
[21:41]
Alayna
Oh no.
[21:41]
Ash
But she happily agreed. In 1946 when she was 23, they did finally get married and they settled down in Michigan. Jim's parents were thrilled to add a daughter in law to the family. They loved Jean. But Jean's father could not have been any more disappointed. A fact he made zero, zilch, null attempt to hide. He was outright with the fact that he did not like this guy.
[22:07]
Alayna
Oh.
[22:07]
Ash
According to journalist Shane Alexander, Albert was furious. He warned Gene that she was throwing her life away. He was certain Jim Harris was not good enough for her. And he made sure that Jim too knew how he felt.
[22:19]
Alayna
Oh boy.
[22:20]
Ash
Which is shitty.
[22:20]
Alayna
Well, it's also hard because he spent a lot of time, her life, basically making her feel she's not good enough for him. And now he's saying this, this guy isn't good enough for you. And she's like, I thought you didn't.
[22:32]
Ash
Give a shit about Me.
[22:33]
Alayna
She's like, what do you mean? Like, where's my standing here?
[22:36]
Ash
Right.
[22:36]
Alayna
Yeah, it's, it's just a conflicting message.
[22:39]
Ash
Well, and it's also just, it's kind of a continued message of like nothing you ever do is good enough.
[22:43]
Alayna
Exactly. You can't even pick a guy right. Yeah.
[22:46]
Ash
It wasn't only that Albert disliked Jim Harris, but he actually thought the entire Harris family were ignorant fools.
[22:52]
Alayna
Damn.
[22:53]
Ash
Mostly because of their progressive political opinions and support of the Roosevelt administration.
[22:57]
Alayna
Damn.
[22:58]
Ash
Tells you a lot.
[23:00]
Alayna
Damn.
[23:01]
Ash
Damn.
[23:01]
Alayna
Damn. Damn.
[23:02]
Ash
Damn. Whether or not Gene was throwing her life away was obviously a matter of opinion. But in hindsight, she did recognize that her marriage had a lot less to do with love than it did with defiance of her father. She was, she wanted to go against.
[23:16]
Alayna
She liked that it was bothering you. Yeah.
[23:18]
Ash
She said, when I got married, I had no conception of love. Defying dad was the main reason I married Jim. Also, unlike dad, he was very quiet, which is kind of a baller statement. Damn. She's like.
[23:30]
Alayna
Again I say damn.
[23:31]
Ash
She's like, listen, my dad sucked. He didn't like this guy. This guy's quiet. I can do what I want. This guy's quiet.
[23:38]
Alayna
This guy shuts his fucking mouth, he's.
[23:40]
Ash
Gonna let me live.
[23:41]
Alayna
I appreciate that about him and I love that.
[23:43]
Ash
She's like, unlike my loud ass, snobby motherfucker of a dad, this guy's quiet.
[23:47]
Alayna
This guy shuts the fuck up. Wow.
[23:50]
Ash
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[26:24]
Alayna
Do that, for sure.
[26:25]
Ash
And at the very least, she did choose somebody who treated her with kindness and was entirely predictable.
[26:31]
Alayna
Okay.
[26:32]
Ash
Yeah. It's a safe life.
[26:34]
Alayna
Yeah.
[26:34]
Ash
To those who knew her well, though, Jean's marriage to Jim didn't make any fucking sense. She was very smart. She was an independent woman. We know. She loved the arts, she loved culture. She was the ultimate conversationalist. She was passionate. She had a lot of big dreams. Jim had smaller ambitions and he didn't seem to want a lot out of life. He was. He was a simple guy.
[26:55]
Alayna
Yeah. You know.
[26:56]
Ash
Yeah.
[26:56]
Alayna
He's just Jim.
[26:57]
Ash
Well, people are different. We all want different things out of life. It doesn't make him a bad guy.
[27:01]
Alayna
For not. No. For not like, you know, for just.
[27:04]
Ash
Wanting a simple home life, you know, whatever fulfills him. Yeah. Jean's friend Leslie McDougal recalled she was desperate to marry Jim Harris. I never understood it. He was a little man in every way. Gene had intellect. She was brainy. Everything she got into, she did well. He loved to put her to trim the hedge. As she got more interesting, he got duller.
[27:23]
Alayna
Aww.
[27:23]
Ash
And in the notes, Dave wrote, damn, what a savage read.
[27:28]
Alayna
I was dying, honestly.
[27:31]
Ash
Yeah, yeah.
[27:31]
Alayna
Chin chin. That is like, shit.
[27:33]
Ash
I was like. After the wedding, though, Jean settled into married life. And she was determined to be the perfect housewife. But she also wanted to keep her regular job, which was she was a teacher at Grosse Pointe Country Day School. And she also found the time to keep a spotless home. She cooked all the meals. She kept up with all her appearances that she needed to do. She was doing it all.
[27:54]
Alayna
Yeah.
[27:55]
Ash
Now, while the schedule was without a doubt exhausting. Very taxing, it was important to Jean that she apply her training and her intellectual to a job that she saw as valuable. And to her, there was nothing more valuable than helping to mold the minds of children. She loved teaching.
[28:09]
Alayna
Oh, I love that.
[28:10]
Ash
And she loved being a part of kids lives.
[28:12]
Alayna
Well, and it sounds like she had so many, like, influential teachers in her life. You can tell when a kid has great teachers because they immediately are like, I want to be a teacher.
[28:23]
Ash
Yeah.
[28:23]
Alayna
Because they see what happens.
[28:26]
Ash
Exactly.
[28:26]
Alayna
My kids have like this fucking. Like the older girls have an amazing fucking teacher.
[28:32]
Ash
Oh, she's a queen.
[28:33]
Alayna
She's a goddamn queen.
[28:35]
Ash
I wish we could like, literally say her name, but we obviously can't.
[28:37]
Alayna
I would love to say her name just because she's so amazing. But she's. She's amazing. And they. One of my kids is like, I want to be a teacher. Like, ba, ba, ba.
[28:47]
Ash
I love that.
[28:47]
Alayna
And it's like, that's a sign that you've done the right thing.
[28:51]
Ash
Yeah.
[28:52]
Alayna
Teachers.
[28:54]
Ash
You're one who says that would be the best teacher ever.
[28:56]
Alayna
Oh, my God. Yeah.
[28:57]
Ash
She's so patient and sweet, especially with like, oh, my God.
[29:01]
Alayna
Yeah.
[29:01]
Ash
I could go on for like an hour.
[29:02]
Alayna
Also, if you're looking for anybody to follow on TikTok, we haven't done a TikTok follow. Like, go in a while. Mr. Williams on TikTok. His name is Tell Williams.
[29:10]
Ash
We love Mr. Williams with our entire heart and soul.
[29:13]
Alayna
He is a phenomenal follower. Yeah, A follower follow and. And he's a preschool teacher and also a therapist.
[29:23]
Ash
Yeah. And he does it all.
[29:24]
Alayna
He does it all. He really does.
[29:26]
Ash
He also does Savage reads.
[29:27]
Alayna
He does Savage reads. He's hilarious. I remember watching him in the beginning of TikTok and being like, I want him to be my child's preschool teacher. Like he was. He's so good and you can tell he cares so much.
[29:38]
Ash
Pre K paws.
[29:39]
Alayna
Pre K paws. He always starts with that. Go follow him because he deserves all the follows. He's Mr. Williams on TikTok and you.
[29:47]
Ash
Will not regret it.
[29:48]
Alayna
You will not.
[29:49]
Ash
He's hilarious even if you don't have kids. Great follow.
[29:51]
Alayna
Exactly. He's a great follow no matter what.
[29:53]
Ash
Yeah. Well, back to Gene. Her domestic responsibilities increased a year or two later when Jim's newly widowed father moved in with them. Gene really loved her father in law and she never complained about living with him. But according to several neighbors, Albert Harris expected to be treated as a guest in the house rather than an occupant who contributed to the work of a running home. Ah, but you know what? You live that long, you lose your wife.
[30:17]
Alayna
Yeah.
[30:17]
Ash
Your kids got to take care of you at some point.
[30:19]
Alayna
At this point, he's probably like, you know what it treat me like a guest.
[30:23]
Ash
I get to a certain age and I've raised you all up, you know.
[30:26]
Alayna
Yeah, you, you treat me like a guest.
[30:28]
Ash
Yeah. Come on. But also, it doesn't sound like Jim was like really doing a lot and it's his dad, so that's a little tough.
[30:34]
Alayna
Yeah.
[30:35]
Ash
But the workload increased again two years later in 1950 when Jean gave birth to their first child, David, and then a couple years later, a second child, Jimmy. So they had their hands full.
[30:46]
Alayna
Yeah.
[30:46]
Ash
The expectations of motherhood were made even more stressful by Gene's postpartum depression after Jimmy's birth. And remember, this was not a time. Even now, I feel like we don't have a full understanding of postpartum depression. Truly picture it in the 1950s.
[31:02]
Alayna
That, that sounds nightmarish.
[31:03]
Ash
They'd give you like some meth about it.
[31:05]
Alayna
Yeah, that's a, that's a nightmarish scenario in the 1950s.
[31:09]
Ash
It's sad. So a lot of times Jean found herself crying over what most people would consider very small things or no reason at all. Like she didn't know why she was crying. She just was.
[31:19]
Alayna
Oh, that sounds awful.
[31:20]
Ash
It's very sad. But fortunately, her postpartum didn't last super long. Even after it passed, friends did notice changes to her behavior. I think it left its.
[31:29]
Alayna
Well, you wonder what. Yeah, it probably leaves some kind of mark. I fortunately did not go through it. I know people who did though, and I can't. If you're going through it, I'm really sorry.
[31:37]
Ash
Yeah.
[31:38]
Alayna
You'll get on the other side, I promise.
[31:39]
Ash
It's one of my biggest fears, like when I do end up having kids.
[31:42]
Alayna
Well, people don't take it like, I feel like it doesn't get taken seriously a lot.
[31:46]
Ash
No.
[31:46]
Alayna
When you try to get help for it, it's scary. It's very scary.
[31:50]
Ash
Yeah. But one friend said she made such an enormous effort, but she was extremely volatile. We had a cup of tea together every single day. And I never knew whether I'd find a happy woman, a sad woman, or an angry woman.
[32:01]
Alayna
Oh, that's tough.
[32:03]
Ash
So it sounds like. I think I shouldn't have said that it didn't last very long because I really don't think there's a way of measuring how long she was going through it. I think she might have just got better at managing it.
[32:12]
Alayna
I was. Maybe she was just pushing it to.
[32:14]
Ash
The side, but it was still affecting her daily life. But although she never hesitated to join the PTA or engage with neighbors and parents of her kids. Classmates, her ability to integrate with others did remain somewhat of a problem into her adulthood.
[32:28]
Alayna
Okay.
[32:28]
Ash
At the time, Grosse Pointe, where she was living and teaching, it's a suburb of Detroit, was home to some of the automotive industry's wealthiest families. And there was a very rigid social hierarchy that was all based on wealth. Of course, as a school teacher and the wife of a middle class husband, she never really cared about material things. And since her childhood, she actually really tried to find value outside of monetary terms.
[32:54]
Alayna
Yeah.
[32:55]
Ash
But because of the way that everything worked, she was a little bit of an outcast among everybody else.
[33:00]
Alayna
That makes sense.
[33:01]
Ash
Yeah. And she really struggled to make strong connections because of that.
[33:04]
Alayna
That's rough.
[33:05]
Ash
In the early 60s, Gene's dissatisfaction with her life was becoming even more apparent to those around her. Her friend. Her friend Bob Scripps recalled. Jean did not lead a very exciting life here. Her marriage to Jim was a real drag. He was a genuine tight wad and very conservative. Really a man of no imagination. Whereas Gene had so much.
[33:24]
Alayna
Wow.
[33:25]
Ash
Everybody's really reading. That's the thing. I'm like. I couldn't find anything to like, outright say that Jim was an. So I'm just like.
[33:32]
Alayna
It just sounds like he was kind of like.
[33:33]
Ash
He was just kind of like a plain Jane. A plain gym, you know?
[33:36]
Alayna
Yeah. Plain gym.
[33:36]
Ash
Yeah. Just. Just vibration to his own beat. I'm like, wow, nobody likes you.
[33:41]
Alayna
Nobody thought you were interesting. Like, that's rough.
[33:44]
Ash
That's sad. I know. I feel. I feel a little bad for Jim. Yeah.
[33:47]
Alayna
Does Jim do anything that I shouldn't feel bad for him?
[33:50]
Ash
No.
[33:50]
Alayna
Okay.
[33:50]
Ash
Not that I know I didn't. I couldn't find It. That's the thing. I couldn't find anything that I could call him an asshole.
[33:55]
Alayna
Truly negative. Like, he. Like he's abusive or something like that.
[33:58]
Ash
No, it doesn't sound like it.
[33:59]
Alayna
Like, by the sounds of it, I'm just like, you know, don't care. When everybody else knows Jim, you know.
[34:05]
Ash
I feel like he needs, like, a high five. I want to, like, for a burger. Like, come on, let's.
[34:10]
Alayna
Let's you be happy with you Jim.
[34:12]
Ash
Okay. I want to take Jim to a theme park and be like, let's find a little excitement here.
[34:16]
Alayna
I'm like, you know what, Jim? Like, there's these things called book nooks that you can make. I think you would love them.
[34:20]
Ash
Here you go.
[34:21]
Alayna
Sit down.
[34:22]
Ash
He strikes me as something I love, a book nook. The very minimal amount I know about Jim, I think he would fuck heavy with a book nook.
[34:28]
Alayna
And I'm saying that as somebody who fucking loves book nooks, I sit down and do them at night.
[34:32]
Ash
So I love that.
[34:33]
Alayna
That's not a read on book nooks.
[34:35]
Ash
No, it's not. I got Alina multiple book nooks for her birthday.
[34:37]
Alayna
Hell, yeah.
[34:38]
Ash
But by then, by that point, Jean had started taking courses in a master's program where she was finding a lot of purpose. But when she thought about her future as a housewife and a mother in Grosse Pointe, that idea became increasingly unsustainable. She was finding a lot of purpose. Kind of like pouring into her own cup.
[34:55]
Alayna
Yeah.
[34:55]
Ash
But I think she kind of, like, took a little, like, a scope out and was like, I don't know if this is gonna. If this is gonna last.
[35:03]
Alayna
Yeah. Like. Yeah.
[35:04]
Ash
So her life with Jim didn't exactly end. It kind of just fizzled out. There wasn't a lot of drama. There wasn't a lot of anger. Everything just fizzled.
[35:13]
Alayna
It just kind of was like, this isn't gonna be forever.
[35:16]
Ash
Yeah.
[35:16]
Alayna
All right.
[35:17]
Ash
By 1964, she came to the conclusion that she did not want to be married anymore. And she reached out to her friend and lawyer, Jephthah Sherman, I think it is, who helped her navigate, obviously, a pretty complex divorce process at that time.
[35:29]
Alayna
Yeah.
[35:29]
Ash
Sherman said some people should never marry, and Jean is one of them. She's a superior person, and there are not too many suitable matches. Person like that.
[35:37]
Alayna
Jeez.
[35:38]
Ash
I know.
[35:38]
Alayna
People are really talking her up.
[35:40]
Ash
They. They do, yeah. So Jean and Jim's Mar. Jim Harris's marriage officially came to an end in 1965. And while it wasn't the most amicable divorce in the world. I don't really know if there are many.
[35:51]
Alayna
There are a few, I feel.
[35:52]
Ash
Yeah. Jean said. Jean was said to navigate it with a remarkable grace. Her lawyer said she was never accusatory about Jim Harris. Everyone knew what he was. He was never guilty of false advertising about himself. But Gene would never say a word against him. She was an admirable client and a real rotten divorce.
[36:08]
Alayna
So it all. And in that sense, it, like, it seems like he wasn't a bad guy. It just wasn't gonna work. And maybe he didn't want a divorce. So it probably got kind of gnarly then.
[36:20]
Ash
Messy. Yeah.
[36:20]
Alayna
But it's like when she won't even say, like, a bad thing about the guy, it's like, yeah, Feels like he just wasn't a bad guy.
[36:27]
Ash
That's what I think.
[36:28]
Alayna
Didn't really work.
[36:29]
Ash
Yeah. They just weren't meant to be. I don't think they were meant to be.
[36:31]
Alayna
No, it doesn't sound like that.
[36:32]
Ash
And, like, obviously, there are relationships where, like, it's your high school sweetheart and it works out, but, like, for sure.
[36:37]
Alayna
Not all the time, but it's a tough one.
[36:39]
Ash
And the older you get and the more life changes you. You change a little bit with it.
[36:44]
Alayna
Yeah.
[36:44]
Ash
Yeah. But by that point, everybody could see how unhappy Jean was in her life. So when it came to an end to the divorce and the marriage, everybody was rooting for her.
[36:53]
Alayna
Yeah.
[36:53]
Ash
So after leaving Jim, Jean and the kids moved in with one of her close friends, Jody Blaine. She needed to move in with a friend to make it for a while. And Dodie had also gone through a divorce around the same time. So they spent a lot of time reflecting on and discussing what had gone wrong in their respective marriages. And they both reasonably concluded that they had just simply chosen the wrong man, which I'm sure a lot of people who get divorced can relate to. But this, of course, led to the question, if their respective ex husbands were the wrong man, then who was the right man?
[37:23]
Alayna
Who is he?
[37:24]
Ash
Who's the right man?
[37:25]
Alayna
Who's this man's for me?
[37:26]
Ash
Well, Jean had given this matter a great deal of thought.
[37:29]
Alayna
Oh, had she?
[37:30]
Ash
And she said her answer was very simple. She said very probably he was a Jewish doctor.
[37:35]
Alayna
I. I like that. She's just like, I know for sure. I know who the right band for me is.
[37:39]
Ash
It's giving Charlotte. It is Charlotte York from Sex and the City.
[37:42]
Alayna
Absolutely it is.
[37:43]
Ash
During one of their many talks, Gene told Doty, being Jewish, he'd be a man of superior intelligence and education and that his, quote, Semitic background would also make him warm hearted and passionate, yet protective. She said Jewish husbands really take care of their women.
[37:57]
Alayna
Wow, she really thought this one through.
[37:58]
Ash
She did, yeah.
[37:59]
Alayna
I like it. It.
[38:00]
Ash
So her desire to find the right man might have fueled her fantasies, but she never let it interfere with the responsibilities of her real life. After the divorce, she felt a lot of guilt for disrupting her two sons lives and she tried every chance she could to make it up to them. She wanted to make sure that they had the best of the best and that they would have a great start to their adult lives once they were done with high school. Yeah, she seemed like a good one.
[38:24]
Alayna
That's good to hear that.
[38:25]
Ash
Yeah. For a lot of women in her position, it was possible to rely on your par. Their parents for help in raising kids as a single parent. Yeah, but not the case with Gene Albert. Her father seemed to have about as much fondness for his grandsons as he did for their father and quote, flatly refused to contribute to the cost of their education. This is their maternal grandfather.
[38:47]
Alayna
And I'm sorry, I think about how rad it must be to be a grandparent all the time.
[38:55]
Ash
All the time.
[38:56]
Alayna
Because like, I love being a parent. Yeah, like it's fun. It's obviously, it's like hard, but.
[39:03]
Ash
Well, that's the thing.
[39:04]
Alayna
So fucking fun. But when you're a grandparent, you don't even have the hard stuff.
[39:08]
Ash
It's being a parent without any of the responsibility.
[39:10]
Alayna
Exactly.
[39:10]
Ash
So it's just really like, you know.
[39:12]
Alayna
Which I guess there's your answer right there. It's like, if you like being a parent, my goodness, you're gonna love being a grandparent because it takes away any of the stress that you even were fine with.
[39:22]
Ash
But it doesn't sound like he loves.
[39:23]
Alayna
Being a parent, but he did not like being a parent. And it's like, but it's like, damn, it sounds so fun.
[39:28]
Ash
What do you mean? I think it's really shitty to. He didn't like their dad and he took that out on them. Yeah, it's like, sure, that's their father and like that's half of who they are.
[39:38]
Alayna
But yeah, it's like, that's not their fault though.
[39:41]
Ash
Well, that's the thing. That's not their choice. So why are you holding that against them? Yeah, it's just, it's strange to me.
[39:46]
Alayna
Yeah, it really is.
[39:48]
Ash
But also, Jean hadn't requested any alimony during the divorce process and she was only getting about 200amonth in child support, which for two kids was not a lot.
[39:56]
Alayna
No.
[39:57]
Ash
So if she wanted to ensure a bright future and this world class education that she wanted to give her sons, she was gonna have to find a way to increase her income dramatically. So, now, singularly focused, she put her own PhD work on hold and contacted the vocational office at Smith College for guidance in finding a better job. Because she's an alum there.
[40:16]
Alayna
Yeah.
[40:17]
Ash
She told them she wanted to move on from teaching and work her way up to school administration because obviously she knew that paid better. Before long, the vocational office got back to her and they had an offer of a position of director of the middle school at Springsdale, which was an elite all girls prep school in Chestnut Hill, which is a wealthy suburb of Philadelphia.
[40:37]
Alayna
Okay.
[40:37]
Ash
And this would pay about $12,000 a year, which right now would be about $117,000. Wow.
[40:43]
Alayna
So that's a.
[40:44]
Ash
That's a great annual. Hell, yeah. She eagerly accepted, of course, and started making preparations to move to the East Coast. So a few months later, she was settling into her new life in Pennsylvania and was already thriving at her position in Springsdale. While she was dedicated to the new position and dove in with a lot of enthusiasm, she still managed to find the time to make sure that her kids were also adjusting to their new home, keeping up with their requirements, because they were both on scholarship, you know, helping with their schoolwork mom duties. In late December, though, she called up her old friend Marge Jacobson in New York. And Marge was like, girl, you gotta come out to New York. I am throwing a dinner party this weekend. And, you know, you gotta relax a little bit. You gotta let loose. You gotta come to my party.
[41:27]
Alayna
Oh, damn.
[41:28]
Ash
And Gene was like, I don't know, like, it's gonna cost money to go. And, you know, we just got the kids settled. But ultimately, she did agree to go to the party.
[41:37]
Alayna
Good.
[41:37]
Ash
Yeah. She needed a little bit.
[41:39]
Alayna
Yeah.
[41:39]
Ash
I wish she had gone to, like, a different party, but. Oh, the party's fine, but, you know. So among the attendees at Marge's party that night was Dr. Herman Tarnauer. He was a prominent New York cardiologist at the time and obviously a friend of the Jacobsons. Gene didn't know a lot about him other than the fact that he was a friend of Marge and Marge's husband.
[41:57]
Alayna
Yeah.
[41:57]
Ash
But she was immediately captivated by him. He had quite the presence. He was very charming. He had that, like, commanding presence. It seemed everybody around him, from his friends to his patients had an unyielding devotion to this man. Oh, he's got charisma.
[42:13]
Alayna
Charisma.
[42:14]
Ash
Uniqueness, nerve and talent. So that night, Gene and Herman spent the entire evening chatting. They were obviously each trying to impress each other with intellect and quick wit, banter, banter. When the party came to an end and they parted ways, Gene assumed she'd probably never see this guy again. But a few days later, she was at home in bed with a backache, and a gift unexpectedly arrived from Dr. Herman Tarnow. Oh, girl. And when she opened the small package, it contained a book on Israeli art and a brief note that read, it's time you knew more about the Jews. He was a Jewish man.
[42:45]
Alayna
Okay.
[42:46]
Ash
Yeah. Although she had only spent one night talking with Dr. Tarnower, Jean was completely taken with him and was convinced that she had finally found that quote, unquote, right man that she described to her friend Dodie.
[42:57]
Alayna
Oh, yes. She nailed it.
[42:59]
Ash
He. He's a Jewish doctor.
[43:01]
Alayna
He really.
[43:01]
Ash
He fits the bill that she described. And then a few days after the little gift, the book arrived at her house, a card arrived in the mail from Dr. Tarnower, and it read, you were a delight to be with. Kept wondering if you could keep up with the pace, also whether or not you were a good dancer. Okay, I don't love that note.
[43:19]
Alayna
Okay, thank you.
[43:20]
Ash
I don't let that.
[43:21]
Alayna
I was like, okay, it's a backhanded compliment. I was wondering if you could keep up with the pace. Like, okay, that would be my. All right.
[43:31]
Ash
That's very condescending.
[43:33]
Alayna
And also. Oh, we get it. Like, oh, yeah, you're so.
[43:37]
Ash
You're so quick wedded.
[43:38]
Alayna
You're such a hotshot. Like, I wonder if you can keep up with me. Oh, fuck off.
[43:42]
Ash
Yeah. Very different type of. I don't love that. That would not tickle my fancy.
[43:47]
Alayna
No, that would not get me.
[43:48]
Ash
But Jean was swept away by this card.
[43:51]
Alayna
Hey, to each their own, you know?
[43:53]
Ash
So this was Jean's thing. And she was very excited when another card arrived a few weeks later, this time from Kenya, where Dr. Townauer was visiting, asking whether or not she'd be interested in getting together with him in New York in March. As it's just so happened, Gene was actually planning to be at a conference in New York that very weekend.
[44:12]
Alayna
Sounds kismet.
[44:13]
Ash
Sounds kismet. So she eagerly agreed to meet him for dinner. Now, throughout her marriage to Jim, one of the things that really irked Gene about him was his lack of initiative and, like, creativity. Yeah, he didn't really have any ideas or wants of his own, which made it so that she had to always decide everything.
[44:29]
Alayna
Yeah. And I can understand why that would be frustrating.
[44:31]
Ash
Yeah. So to her delight, Herman was the exact opposite. He was decisive and firm, happy to choose the restaurant or the evening's activities. And High, as she began to call him, was thoughtful, adventurous, and very romantic. So within a few days of the dinner in New York, flowers arrived at Jean's office and her house.
[44:49]
Alayna
House.
[44:49]
Ash
Two sets of flowers.
[44:50]
Alayna
Oh.
[44:51]
Ash
And High called to check back in. It was like everything she wanted in a man, like she described to Dodie a few years earlier, had materialized and been handed to her.
[45:00]
Alayna
It really sounds that way.
[45:01]
Ash
Yeah. So a few. A few weeks later, Gene was back in New York, this time to celebrate High's 57th birthday. And over the course of the weekend, they saw a Broadway show together. They saw all the New York landmarks, ate at some of the nicest restaurants. Unlike her ex husband, whose interests were, according to her, pedestrian and vapid, at least to Gene, Hai was cultured and seemed to pursue his interests with enthusiasm, which is, again, exactly what she was looking for.
[45:27]
Alayna
Yeah.
[45:27]
Ash
So within a few months of dating, Gene and Hai had completely fallen in love. And Hai disclosed to his friend Mark Jacobson that he was planning on asking Gene to marry him.
[45:36]
Alayna
Whoa.
[45:37]
Ash
By then, Gene had met a lot of High's friends at the galas and the country club events that they went to on weekends or at the dinner parties that he would hold in his very opulent home. To those who knew them, their affection for one another was obvious. So it came as no surprise to March that High wanted to marry Gene, even though their romance had been pretty short up to that point.
[45:58]
Alayna
Yeah, it feels that way.
[45:59]
Ash
It was like. It wasn't a surprise, but it was like a little.
[46:02]
Alayna
Like, right now, it was just like.
[46:04]
Ash
Oh, are you sure?
[46:05]
Alayna
Okay.
[46:05]
Ash
All right.
[46:06]
Alayna
Like, I saw this coming, but, like, I would have talked you out of it.
[46:08]
Ash
Yeah, I saw this coming, but I was thinking maybe like, a little more down the road.
[46:12]
Alayna
Yeah.
[46:13]
Ash
But in a letter dated March 1967 to Gene from High, he expressed those feelings in writing. So he said, darling, I love you very, very much. How can I tell? I miss you and want to share so many things with you. Sharing that must be love. Are most people who marry in love? Yes.
[46:31]
Alayna
I hope so.
[46:33]
Ash
What happens? So few are really happy. You will give me all the answers this weekend. Drive carefully. You will be be transporting valuable cargo.
[46:41]
Alayna
Wow. Yeah.
[46:42]
Ash
He is.
[46:43]
Alayna
He. That's. That's molasses. Thick.
[46:47]
Ash
Yeah.
[46:47]
Alayna
That he's laying it on.
[46:49]
Ash
It's giving. In a place of sex in the city. It's giving. Richard.
[46:52]
Alayna
Oh, my God. Yes.
[46:53]
Ash
It's got Richard vibes.
[46:55]
Alayna
Richard. Wow.
[46:56]
Ash
I kind of loved Richard.
[46:58]
Alayna
You can't not love Richard. That's the thing. You gotta hate him later. But.
[47:01]
Ash
Yeah, I hate him at some point.
[47:02]
Alayna
But you'll love them till then. I get it.
[47:05]
Ash
You did. So that spring and summer, the romance deepened, which was reflected in their regular communications.
[47:11]
Alayna
Hi.
[47:12]
Ash
Wrote in a letter, another letter in the spring. Darling, my love for you grows deeper all the time. I feel that we could be very, very happy together. May I suggest we try to spend a very, very long weekend together around Memorial Day to see if you can really put up with me for more than a few hours without getting terribly irritated or bored?
[47:30]
Alayna
I love this.
[47:46]
Ash
It was clear from the letters that High was building to. Building up to ask Jean to marry him. Hell, yeah. And over that long Memorial Day weekend, he did just that. Giving her an emerald cut diamond ring.
[47:57]
Alayna
Oh, damn.
[47:57]
Ash
Posing in a very traditional fashion.
[47:59]
Alayna
Love that.
[48:00]
Ash
I love an emerald cut. I love an oval cut. That's what I have. But I also love an emerald cut.
[48:04]
Alayna
You're like.
[48:04]
Ash
Just to be clear, I'm like. I love both. High's proposal came as kind of a shock to everybody who knew him best and had seen the way that he had dodged commitment time and time again in the past. Mrs. Arthur Schulte, a friend who had known High for years, said he always had very attractive women friends. He was always very generous with time and money, but he never married. Gene, on the other hand, though, know thought little, if anything of High's history with women and just happily accepted his proposal. Which you can understand.
[48:31]
Alayna
Yeah.
[48:32]
Ash
Since the early days of her marriage to Jim Harris, she fantasized about having a partner who was her intellectual equal, but who could also provide a sense of security. And she felt like she had found that in High. Yeah, but the problem, though, is that fantasies don't usually hold together when they're subjected to all the complexities of the real world.
[48:50]
Alayna
No. They tend to bend under pressure.
[48:52]
Ash
They do, and you know, we're gonna get there. But Gene was ecstatic about High's proposal of marriage. And despite the fact that marrying him would require uprooting her life and starting over in New York, she didn't hesitate to say yes in the moment. What she hadn't thought about, though, was how uprooting that life would affect her teenage sons, who had already had their lives disrupted by Their parents divorce just a few years earlier.
[49:16]
Alayna
Yeah, you're right.
[49:17]
Ash
But it did occur to her, at a certain point that summer, during a visit with Marge Jacobson, the reality of everything started to sink in for Jean. And she said, marge, I cannot marry High for a year. I cannot take those children out of school again. I took them away from their father already.
[49:32]
Alayna
Well, that was. I mean, that was thoughtful. Yeah.
[49:34]
Ash
And I feel like that speaks to the kind of mom that she was.
[49:36]
Alayna
Yeah.
[49:37]
Ash
But, you know, her concerns were reasonable, but they turned out to be actually completely unnecessary. In August, just a few months after he'd proposed, Jean raised the issue of setting a date for the wedding so she could make longer term plans. And to her surprise, hai hesitated, something that he rarely did in conversation, and said, gene, I can't go through with it. I'm afraid of it. I can't go through with it. And I'm sorry.
[50:00]
Alayna
Wow. Yeah, I didn't see that coming.
[50:04]
Ash
Yeah. Everyone who knew Jean expected High's response to come as a big shock to her, actually, like it just was to you. But she responded very coolly. She told friends, it hurt for a while, I suppose, but I'm not very surprised he isn't a marrying man. I don't really know what all the reasons are.
[50:20]
Alayna
Huh.
[50:20]
Ash
Yeah.
[50:21]
Alayna
So interesting.
[50:23]
Ash
Yeah, it took quite the turn. It was like. I feel like it was so, you know, hot and heavy, for lack of a better term, for a while and, like, really reached a pinnacle point.
[50:32]
Alayna
And then it burned out, like.
[50:34]
Ash
Yeah, but it doesn't burn completely out. Yeah, eventually it does, but it kind of like burns out, then goes. It's like a heartbeat monitor where it's like, oh, up, down, up, down, you.
[50:44]
Alayna
Know, and then it kind of flatlines for a minute.
[50:47]
Ash
Forever. Yeah.
[50:48]
Alayna
Okay.
[50:49]
Ash
So with marriage off the table, Gene put her engagement ring back in its box, wrapped it up, and sent it back to High, not wanting to reveal her disappointment to her former fiance.
[50:58]
Alayna
Damn.
[50:59]
Ash
But to her surprise, Hai called the moment he received the ring and insisted that she keep it. And a few days later, he actually drove down to Philadelphia himself, ring in hand, and again insisted that she keep it.
[51:09]
Alayna
Wow.
[51:10]
Ash
That night, according to Gene Sons, she and hai locked themselves in the bedroom and argued about the future of their relationship for hours. From High's perspective, Gene deserved to be with somebody who wanted to marry her, and that just wasn't him. He just simply didn't want to be married. So in his mind, the right thing to do was to remove himself from the equation. His decision not to get married appeared to put an end to the relationship altogether. But in the weeks that followed, they did continue to see each other from time to time. And in the meantime, in between all of that, Jean threw herself completely into work to try to distract herself from just the disappointment of it all. And at the same time, her chronic back pain, which she had actually struggled with for most of her life, started flaring up worse than ever. It seems like stress.
[51:54]
Alayna
Yeah. Anxiety and stuff.
[51:56]
Ash
Yeah. As soon as I heard about Jean's back pain from friends, he called her immediately and recommended a new painkiller and even went as far as sending her a prescription for the pillow pills. So the distance from High, the painkillers altogether appeared to have given Gene some clarity around their relationship. And she started to consider if she might be willing to compromise her wants, especially if it meant that she was not going to lose him forever. What seems to have occurred to Jean was the fact that High's desire to no longer see her or marry her didn't mean that he didn't love her, just that he wanted to protect her reputation from anybody who might see they're not being married as somehow abnormal. Because at the time you didn't have like a long term partner.
[52:39]
Alayna
You got married, you're living in sin.
[52:41]
Ash
You're living in sin. After all, though, High Tarnhower was a fiercely independent, strong willed man who rarely compromised. And that aspect of his pro of his personality was probably not going to change so late in life. And she knew that. So one night a few months after they separated, Gene wrote High a letter saying, dear hi, what a strange and wonderful and awful three months these have been and what a lot of soul searching thoughts they have evoked. I know a letter from me is not what you want most in the world, but there are so many important things to say. Everything about us is important to me, High, because I've never experienced love before. Until you. And love, I've discovered, means wanting to share every thought and sensation. In fact, needing to share. As far as never seeing you again is concerned, I won't let it happen. However much you protest. If your social engagements continue to be as pressing as they are this weekend, perhaps you could work me in during office hours. Wow. Yeah. Also, I just want to write letters again.
[53:36]
Alayna
I know this whole letter writing thing, I'm like, wow, this is so much more like passionate.
[53:41]
Ash
Yeah.
[53:41]
Alayna
And dramatic.
[53:42]
Ash
Yeah.
[53:42]
Alayna
All that.
[53:43]
Ash
I love a letter.
[53:44]
Alayna
Yeah.
[53:45]
Ash
Shayna Alexander, the journalist I mentioned early, wrote to Jean, the letter was a proclamation that she was a modern woman. To Herman it may have seemed a license to resume his lifetime bachelor habits, but whatever the case, the letter worked.
[53:57]
Alayna
Yeah.
[53:58]
Ash
High called a few weeks later and did arrange a date to see her and the children in New York in the winter of 1967, thus beginning a new phase of Gene and High's relationship. It's impossible to know what Dr. Herman High Tarnower understood his relationship with Gene to be, but it is clear that they probably would have described it in decidedly different terms. To Jean, everything that was starting back up again was a restoration of the way that things had been. Even though it was on a restricted schedule where she could only see him on the weekends or holidays or when he had time to see her.
[54:32]
Alayna
Yeah.
[54:33]
Ash
For High, on the other hand, Jean's apparent compromise seemed, as Shane Alexander suggested, to have been interpreted as her implicit permission for him to carry on his bachelor lifestyle and just. Just be able to casually see her when their lifestyles or when their schedules would allow.
[54:50]
Alayna
Yeah.
[54:50]
Ash
So basically she was like, it's just gonna be that I'll see him on a limited schedule. And he was like, it's just that I'll see her on a limited schedule and in between then I can fuck whoever I want.
[55:01]
Alayna
Yeah. This just doesn't sound like. This doesn't sound good.
[55:05]
Ash
Yeah. Basically it became an open relationship without ever having a conversation about it.
[55:12]
Alayna
Yeah.
[55:12]
Ash
Which is never good. Yeah. An open relationship. I'm sure it can work. But there's gotta be, to each their own, a sit down conversation where like. Yeah.
[55:20]
Alayna
Both be on the same page.
[55:22]
Ash
Parameters are set up. Yeah.
[55:23]
Alayna
No matter what. You both have to be on the same page.
[55:25]
Ash
Yeah.
[55:26]
Alayna
Because no matter what your relationship is.
[55:27]
Ash
You'Re in a relationship. Exactly. So to hi's closest friends, the turn in his relationship with Jean and his selfish desire to carry on exactly as he pleased did not come as much of a surprise. When she learned that the marriage had been called off, Marge Jacobson reached out to High to find out what had happened. And she really only got a basic explanation. He said, jean understands that we won't marry, but I have promised her that I would take care of her and I mean it. She's remembered in my will. So she was in his will.
[55:53]
Alayna
Damn.
[55:53]
Ash
Yeah, this is so. This is so like it's kind of.
[55:56]
Alayna
Progressive, but like it's very interesting.
[55:59]
Ash
It's progressive, but. But not at the same time. Yeah, but like the complete opposite of progressive because it's Gene giving in to him, you know.
[56:10]
Alayna
Yeah. Yeah. So like it, it comes off as this very like, wow, like they're so forward thinking and they're kind of like removing boundaries to make this work for them. And it's like. But it's not.
[56:23]
Ash
And, well, and ultimately that's not.
[56:24]
Alayna
It's not working for half of them. You know, like one of the. Half of them is completely compromising while the other one is not at all. Right.
[56:31]
Ash
And it doesn't sound. I couldn't find any information to see that Gene had other relationships too, that she, you know, filled her time with when she wasn't seeing High. So it was kind of like a one sided, open relationship, which.
[56:44]
Alayna
Yeah, that's definitely not ideal.
[56:46]
Ash
Yeah. And again, it's not. I don't think it's what she ultimately wanted.
[56:50]
Alayna
No.
[56:50]
Ash
I think she just didn't want to lose him.
[56:52]
Alayna
That's. This is. This feels like desperation. Yeah.
[56:55]
Ash
So she. Yeah. She gave up her own wants and needs.
[56:59]
Alayna
Yeah.
[56:59]
Ash
Which was really unlike her.
[57:01]
Alayna
Yeah.
[57:02]
Ash
But to Marge, the response was characteristic of Dr. Tarnower's typical cold detachment. Years later, she said, the truth is, I think High was incapable of loving. He had tremendous family feeling, but without love. High only loved himself and was quite insensitive to everybody else.
[57:17]
Alayna
Oh, that's sad.
[57:18]
Ash
I know.
[57:18]
Alayna
That's a sad way to be.
[57:20]
Ash
It is. And you wonder what he came from.
[57:22]
Alayna
I was gonna become. What led to that.
[57:24]
Ash
Yeah.
[57:24]
Alayna
Yeah.
[57:25]
Ash
For Gene, High selfishness was one of the things that actually made him such a great man in the eyes of others, though he was driven to succeed despite the odds. And that drive had pushed him to become one of the most well respected doctors in New York. She once told a close friend, hi is great to be with because he's so selfish. He does what he wants and that makes him a damn good company. Is there anyone worse to be around than some self made martyr forever telling you, I did it for the children's sake. It sounds like she was convincing herself. And I think.
[57:56]
Alayna
I'm sorry, what?
[57:57]
Ash
I think a lot of people can relate to this sentiment of, of convincing yourself that you're 100%, that a terrible quality in somebody is actually their best quality.
[58:08]
Alayna
It's actually. It would be awful if they weren't like this. It's like that's. That. That is like the most, like desperate. Please just believe me that, that this is totally fine and that I would hate this any other way to say, like somebody who's selfish is the best kind of person to be around.
[58:29]
Ash
No, they're actually. They're the worst kind of person to be.
[58:33]
Alayna
That's just like Diabolically untrue.
[58:35]
Ash
And it's also like. It's like this weird form of self sabotage.
[58:40]
Alayna
It really is.
[58:41]
Ash
Because it's like. No, it's. You be selfish.
[58:44]
Alayna
Yeah.
[58:44]
Ash
If you think that's a great quality, possess it for a little bit. Be selfish. Do what you want to do, Gene. That's the thing, you know.
[58:51]
Alayna
Yeah.
[58:51]
Ash
And you don't even have to be selfish to do that.
[58:53]
Alayna
No.
[58:53]
Ash
But he is, you know, he was being selfish.
[58:57]
Alayna
Yeah. And I just. You feel that it's. It really is like. Like, it's like a form of Stockholm syndrome. It really is.
[59:04]
Ash
It is. Well, and it's complicated because she let it happen.
[59:09]
Alayna
Absolutely.
[59:10]
Ash
So I. There are a lot of men that if they're allowed to be selfish, they're going to be. There's a lot of women.
[59:15]
Alayna
I was gonna say. And on the flip side, there's a lot of women who are super selfish and crazy. Yeah.
[59:20]
Ash
So anyway, going back to the story, one woman who dated Dr. Tarnauer described him as, quote, a Jewish bachelor prince accustomed to being pursued. But at the same time, High seemed to proudly reject the need for love and connection as a human weakness. Shayna Alexander wrote, I don't love anybody and I don't need anybody became his proud and oft repeated credo.
[59:41]
Alayna
Oh, man.
[59:42]
Ash
Yeah. Which clearly.
[59:45]
Alayna
Yeah.
[59:45]
Ash
Something happened along the. Along the way.
[59:48]
Alayna
Very clearly. Yeah.
[59:49]
Ash
Maybe something in childhood.
[59:51]
Alayna
Maybe there's got to be something in that.
[59:53]
Ash
Yeah. Maybe like a first relationship.
[59:55]
Alayna
For sure.
[59:56]
Ash
Something is there.
[59:57]
Alayna
Yeah.
[59:57]
Ash
It's possible that Gene's perspective on High. High's personality was some kind of a defense mechanism, like we were just saying. Or it's also possible that she just completely romanticized his behavior to make it more tolerable. I think it's a mixture of both.
[60:09]
Alayna
I think it is, too.
[60:10]
Ash
But whatever the case, it seems unlikely that she expected high selfishness or his callousness would extend to his romantic relationships when it came to the emotions that he claimed to have loved know. Yet in the years that followed, as they continued to see each other on a truncated schedule, Dr. Tarnauer was carrying on relationships with several women during the week while Gene was in Pennsylvania.
[60:32]
Alayna
It's also like. Isn't that like. It's just. That sounds like a lot of work.
[60:36]
Ash
I mean.
[60:37]
Alayna
Yeah. Aren't you tired?
[60:38]
Ash
But it sounds like a lot of work. But it also sounds like it was filling his cup in a different way. And again, I think it points back to. I think he actually needed to be loved on a different level.
[60:50]
Alayna
Yeah. And I Think I'm looking at it. Probably. He's not looking at it through an emotional lens.
[60:57]
Ash
No.
[60:57]
Alayna
So it's not a lot of work.
[60:58]
Ash
No.
[60:59]
Alayna
Because there's no heavy lifting in the emotional department.
[61:01]
Ash
And he's kind of getting, he's getting.
[61:03]
Alayna
Everything he needs on his cake and eating it too. So it's like, for him, it's really not a lot of work. He's not carrying on full blown love affairs with people. You know what I mean? It sounds like.
[61:12]
Ash
No, he kind of is.
[61:13]
Alayna
Or like his version of a love affair, which is just. To me it sounds like the flowery language and everything kind of comes naturally to him. Like he's a, the charm thing.
[61:24]
Ash
Like when he goes, doesn't sound like.
[61:26]
Alayna
A lot of work.
[61:27]
Ash
He goes right up to the point of commitment.
[61:29]
Alayna
Exactly.
[61:29]
Ash
And sometimes even makes that commitment and then backs out.
[61:32]
Alayna
I mean, because.
[61:33]
Ash
Well, listen to this.
[61:34]
Alayna
Yeah.
[61:34]
Ash
There was act in, in some cases, these relationships that he was carrying on were short term, casual relationships, but some of them were what, what I'm sure the women considered to be serious.
[61:43]
Alayna
Yeah.
[61:44]
Ash
There were two women that he proposed to, one in 1970 and one in 1971 before ultimately calling off those engagements, just like he had with Jean.
[61:52]
Alayna
Damn.
[61:53]
Ash
So like, so he would get right there. And I do wonder, I, I, I could see this going both ways. I could see it as he maybe was like, I, I, I want to get married. Like, I'm supposed to get married. This is what I'm gonna do.
[62:06]
Alayna
Yeah.
[62:07]
Ash
Or it's what those women needed to stick around for exactly the extra mile.
[62:11]
Alayna
Like, he knows what he needs to do to keep it going for as long as he wants to keep it going.
[62:16]
Ash
Or maybe he thought that that's what he wanted. Yeah.
[62:20]
Alayna
Who knows? Decided to call it off because it's pure speculation. Because, you know, because we don't know.
[62:24]
Ash
And he's not here to say, unfortunately.
[62:26]
Alayna
Oh.
[62:27]
Ash
So whether he was just completely oblivious or cruel can never be known. But High seemed, at least on certain occasions, to be under the impression that Gene did share his casual attitude toward their relationship. In the two instances that he proposed marriage to other women in 1970 and 1971, he actually called Gene to announce his engagements, which is a little cruel, in my opinion. But I don't know if he thought, yikes, you know, we're in an open relationship. I'm also like, did you think that, like, those women were gonna be down for that?
[62:58]
Alayna
It's like he, because I'm like, is he just trying to, like, abide by the quote unquote, open relationship of it all and be like, you need to know when I am become. Because who knows? If they had. They did talk about a thing and again, pure speculation.
[63:13]
Ash
Possibly had a conversation.
[63:14]
Alayna
Maybe they had a conversation where it was like, if you are getting serious about someone, I need to know.
[63:18]
Ash
Yeah.
[63:18]
Alayna
So, like, you need to tell me. So maybe he's like, I'm getting the most serious.
[63:22]
Ash
That's absolutely possible.
[63:24]
Alayna
You never know.
[63:24]
Ash
I don't. It's possible. I don't think that.
[63:28]
Alayna
Yeah. It doesn't sound like there was a lot of, like, discussions around this, the form of this relationship.
[63:33]
Ash
I also. And again, pure speculation. I think this became a little bit of a game.
[63:37]
Alayna
Yeah.
[63:38]
Ash
And I think there was some satisfaction in stringing along and holding off in some.
[63:45]
Alayna
I mean, some relationships like these kind of toxic style relationship. That's the thing. They become addictive. Yes. And you become addictive. Yeah. To the, the drama, the back and forth and the drama and the, you know, the, the love bombing when you make up and how everything's great and then, you know, like the ups and downs become this, like, ride that you just can't take yourself off of.
[64:10]
Ash
Yeah, exactly. Well, to most who knew him, those, those around him, this, you know, calling her and being like, hey, I'm engaged. Oh, that didn't work out, but I'm engaged again was just further evidence of his tendency to be a little cruel and a little thoughtless. But Jean Tarnower's consummate apologist tried to maintain a sense of humor about it, at least in public situations. She once joked to a friend, when he told me she had four children, I knew he'd never marry her.
[64:36]
Alayna
Wow.
[64:37]
Ash
It's just like, oh, damn.
[64:40]
Alayna
Again, I say damn.
[64:41]
Ash
I know. As time went on, though, Jean took whatever hot was willing to give, but otherwise focused her attention on her career. In 1972, she left the school she was working at for a position as headmistress at the Thomas School, another all girls private school. This was in. I think it's Roatan, Connecticut. But the relocation to Connecticut brought her closer to New York, and a lot of her friends speculated that that was not an accident, that she probably took that job so that she would have a shorter commute to see high.
[65:09]
Alayna
That makes sense.
[65:10]
Ash
Should he want to see her, though?
[65:12]
Alayna
Oh.
[65:12]
Ash
Because it was like she's. He told her when they were going to get together.
[65:17]
Alayna
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, I just know this. I can. I know this.
[65:37]
Ash
Yeah.
[65:37]
Alayna
I know this relationship.
[65:39]
Ash
Yeah.
[65:39]
Alayna
Like, it's just I'm. I'm listening to it. I'm like, it's sad and it's. The desperation on the other side is. That's rough. Well.
[65:47]
Ash
And again, like, going back to her childhood, think about what was ingrained in her.
[65:52]
Alayna
Yeah. Like, I mean, she was. She grew up with somebody who was.
[65:55]
Ash
A man who never saw her, who.
[65:57]
Alayna
Never made her feel like she was enough, and who she had to always constantly beg and fight for the attention or any kind of, like, pat on the back or any kind of compliment. And it's like, it does carry into.
[66:11]
Ash
Yeah.
[66:11]
Alayna
You know.
[66:12]
Ash
Well, and then in going even further. So that was her whole childhood. And then she married a man who she felt was the complete opposite of that, and that didn't work out. So she went right back to square one.
[66:22]
Alayna
Yeah. And she was like, how do I. How do I manage to keep this? Yeah.
[66:25]
Ash
You know, and I'm sure she saw it as, like, a. Her problem when obviously it wasn't for sure. It was just.
[66:31]
Alayna
And sometimes you don't even need to. Yeah. Sometimes you don't even need to have that kind of upbringing or anything like that to fall into that.
[66:38]
Ash
No.
[66:39]
Alayna
You know what I mean?
[66:40]
Ash
I think it just adds a layer when you do. But you're right.
[66:42]
Alayna
Yeah.
[66:43]
Ash
Sometimes that just happens.
[66:44]
Alayna
I have a great father.
[66:46]
Ash
Oh, Papa fucking rocks.
[66:47]
Alayna
Thinks I'm the bee's knees. And always told me I was the bee's knees. And, like, was great and is great and remains great and will be great forever. And I still dated somebody and there was a similar kind of relationship where it was like, I was constantly trying to hold on to this awful situation.
[67:06]
Ash
And it kind of was like a, I'll see you when I see you.
[67:09]
Alayna
Which was literally like, I have control of the situation kind of thing. So it's like, you don't even need to have that background. But when you have that background, I'm sure it's. If that was. And I'm only thinking of my own thing, if it was. That was hard to get out of. For me, who has no psychological reason to be trapped in that way of thinking, to have a background and a trauma that builds upon that that's keeping you there must be like being in quicksand.
[67:37]
Ash
Oh, yeah. I can relate to it. My dad is not. Not Gene's dad by any sense, but we have a strained relationship and I. He wasn't a huge part of my childhood. And, you know, like, I love my dad, but it's not. My relationship with my dad is not my ideal relationship.
[67:53]
Alayna
No.
[67:53]
Ash
And my relationship with my mom, as we all know, is not super fuego.
[67:57]
Alayna
No, so not super fuego.
[67:59]
Ash
In my early years, like in my teens and, like, very early 20s, I was seeking out relationships. For sure I would get the most attention, but that they weren't great relationships. Any attention or. Any attention.
[68:11]
Alayna
Yeah, any attention was good attention, even.
[68:13]
Ash
Like, you know, but then you either realize that that's a pattern and you divert from that pattern, which I did, because Drew is the most amazing man on the planet, or you stay on that road and it doesn't work. But it's hard.
[68:28]
Alayna
Yeah, it is. Because, I mean, I didn't understand, like, my John. I didn't understand why he was being so kind and why he was saying, like, truthful things and being open. I was, like, totally averse to it because I was like, I what? Like, who are you?
[68:43]
Ash
Well, and you know what? I also think, obviously, the father is a big part of the way that women pick partners. I also think other experiences in life, for sure, like, not to, like, bring it to a dark place, but you were bullied.
[68:54]
Alayna
Yeah.
[68:54]
Ash
Your first relationship was not iconic.
[68:57]
Alayna
No.
[68:57]
Ash
And then your second one was not even less a better relationship. But then you, as you get older, you do, you can again, divert from that path and kind of start to find the things that you like about yourself.
[69:10]
Alayna
Yeah.
[69:10]
Ash
And then when somebody is then, you know, confirming those things that they like.
[69:15]
Alayna
Those things can be a little jarring at first because you're like.
[69:18]
Ash
But then you're like, oh, I do deserve this. Yeah.
[69:21]
Alayna
That's the thing.
[69:22]
Ash
I think I. I hope and I wish that every woman or person got to that point.
[69:27]
Alayna
Well, that's why I'm like. I'm like, everyone listening. Yeah, you deserve it. You deserve. If you think you don't deserve it and you're being like. Like, this person's too nice. I don't deserve this. You deserve it.
[69:36]
Ash
You absolutely.
[69:37]
Alayna
So shut up.
[69:38]
Ash
Yeah. Everybody deserves some kind of.
[69:39]
Alayna
Shut up.
[69:40]
Ash
Yeah.
[69:40]
Alayna
Take it.
[69:41]
Ash
We've been so, like, self help lately.
[69:43]
Alayna
Well, yeah, because I just feel like it's just necessary.
[69:45]
Ash
We're in a place of positivity.
[69:46]
Alayna
We're trying to. I'm trying to bring more positivity, more light around everywhere.
[69:52]
Ash
Yeah. You know, we need it.
[69:53]
Alayna
The world needs it.
[69:54]
Ash
Yeah. Well, so back to the story.
[69:57]
Alayna
I know we're really going off. It's like, old school.
[70:00]
Ash
It is. Some. Some of you guys missed that. So this is.
[70:02]
Alayna
I know. And we miss that. We miss.
[70:04]
Ash
And we're allowed to go off track.
[70:06]
Alayna
So here it is.
[70:06]
Ash
I do what I want.
[70:07]
Alayna
Yeah.
[70:08]
Ash
So most of the time, like I said, she took a new job. And again, she took the job, at least in part, to be closer, to.
[70:18]
Alayna
Be a little closer.
[70:18]
Ash
So she took her new job. At the time of her move, private schools around the country were going through kind of a rough period. There was a national recession going on, and obviously widespread financial difficulties were causing enrollment. Enrollments to drop, which, of course, then dramatically affected the budgets at the Thomas School and others like it. In her time at Springside, where she used to work, Gene had actually gained a reputation for being a very tough but very efficient administrator. So the offer of the new position at the Thomas School came with the understanding that she would be expected to turn things around for the struggling institution.
[70:50]
Alayna
Oh, okay.
[70:51]
Ash
And one of the big things that they needed from her was to improve enrollment, among other things.
[70:55]
Alayna
Yeah.
[70:56]
Ash
So that was a very high stress, very high pressure job. And at it, I think in a. In a previous point in her life, it would have been a great job for her.
[71:04]
Alayna
Yeah.
[71:04]
Ash
At this point in her life, it did not suit her in the slightest. She had always been a little bit moody and kind of, you know, irritable at times. But after taking the job at the Thomas School, everybody noticed that she was becoming even more unpredictable. She would often lose her composure and even scream at students over the slightest things. And things at the school were a lot more dire than she even anticipated. Oh, man, she was very much in over her head. It was a lot more than just one person was going to be able to.
[71:32]
Alayna
Yes.
[71:33]
Ash
In 1975, the Thomas School actually closed permanently.
[71:37]
Alayna
Oh, damn.
[71:37]
Ash
And Jean found herself out of work, and she was forced to take a job with the Allied Maintenance Corporation, which was a janitorial supply company. It paid well the job, but for Jean, who always wanted her work to contribute to the betterment of children, it was a slog.
[71:52]
Alayna
Yeah.
[71:52]
Ash
And even worse, it didn't really carry any of the prestige or social status that she enjoyed as being a headmistress at an elite private school. So while her professional life had become mundane and disappointing, her personal life was really in no better shape. Things with high hadn't changed, and her chronic back problems were persisting, even getting worse, and actually caused her to develop a heavy reliance on dysoxin, which was a prescription painkiller prescribed to her by Dr. Tarnow Power. Oh, it's an interesting choice of a painkiller. Yeah. Throughout the 1970s and into the early 80s, Dasoxin, a brand name for the generic Drug methamphetamine was technically approved for the treatment of adhd, but was also approved by the FDA for the off label treatment of obesity and narcolepsy, among other things. Essentially they said, just do meth about it.
[72:45]
Alayna
That I was just, I was like, they were so wily back then. Like they were just like, just do meth about it.
[72:54]
Ash
And when you think about it, this is the 70s. That's like not that long ago. I mean now, now it really is.
[73:01]
Alayna
We're all thinking of it in like 2000.
[73:03]
Ash
I think of everything. Yeah. 50 years.
[73:06]
Alayna
Yeah. Damn. Because I always think the 90s were 10 years ago. So it's like this is. But I would be hard for me to comprehend.
[73:12]
Ash
Yeah, I'd be like 12 if that was the case.
[73:13]
Alayna
Or like even younger or just not even exist.
[73:16]
Ash
I don't know math, but let's get back to the math. Like many stimulants, desoxin, AKA meth, had some serious physical and psychological side effects, including. Yeah, I would think it's a last resort for a lot of people at this point. Yeah, but back then, But a resort. Well, back then they were just like, here, do this. But the side effects included increased heart rate, rapid breathing, tremors, restlessness, increased body temperature, euphoria, but unfortunately dysphoria as well, grandiosity, repetitive and obsessive behaviors. The list goes on.
[73:49]
Alayna
Oh, boy.
[73:50]
Ash
These side effects also tended to be more common in people who were not diagnosed with adhd because this was a medicine to treat adhd. So if you don't have that, the side effects are going to be worse.
[74:00]
Alayna
Yeah, for sure.
[74:01]
Ash
Gene experienced many of those side effects listed above because she did not have adhd and she even experienced other side effects as well. Well.
[74:10]
Alayna
Oh man.
[74:10]
Ash
According to Shane Alexander, dysoxin is not just speed, but high speed. It hits the Central nervous system 5 to 10 times faster than ordinary amphetamines, rather in the manner of cocaine.
[74:22]
Alayna
Wow.
[74:23]
Ash
So it's snap, instant. Like it hits you.
[74:27]
Alayna
Oh, that's so scary.
[74:28]
Ash
It is. It absolutely is.
[74:30]
Alayna
Yeah.
[74:30]
Ash
So aside from that. Yeah, things started looking up in mid-1977.
[74:36]
Alayna
Aside from the method, aside from the.
[74:37]
Ash
Meth of it all, things were looking, looking up. In mid-1977, Gene learned about an opening for another headmistress position at the Madeira School, which again was one of the most the nation's most prestigious private schools in Washington D.C. the job actually paid less than what she was making at Allied Maintenance and would require her to move further from New York. And that meant further from High turn hour. But for somebody in her field, the job was considered a crowning achievement because of the. The prestigious nature.
[75:06]
Alayna
Yeah.
[75:06]
Ash
Thanks to the dysoxin, Jean's back pain was manageable and helped her accomplish far more than she might have otherwise been able to, which impressed the board at Madeira. And soon she was installed as the school's new headmistress.
[75:19]
Alayna
Damn.
[75:20]
Ash
So the job was a welcome distraction for her because her life had become really lonely at this point. Her kids had left for school, for college, and after college, they, you know, went on to starting families of their own, going to find jobs, that whole thing. So she was by herself, and when she wasn't at work, she spent a lot of her time just alone. And on the increasingly rare occasions when she and Hai did spend time together, it was clear that things between them had really changed.
[75:45]
Alayna
Yeah.
[75:46]
Ash
Once assertive and vibrant, Gene was very demure now in High's presence and didn't participate in a lot of conversations the way that she had in the past. And for his part, Hai seemed more distant and cold with Gene than he had ever been.
[75:59]
Alayna
Oh, no.
[75:59]
Ash
He rarely told her that he loved her. And. And actually, according to people who knew them, kind of seemed to delight in withholding affection from her.
[76:09]
Alayna
That sucks.
[76:11]
Ash
I think it got to his head a little bit.
[76:13]
Alayna
Yeah.
[76:14]
Ash
Like the nature of their relationship.
[76:16]
Alayna
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I could see that.
[76:18]
Ash
You know, so the change for that to happen. It is.
[76:21]
Alayna
Yeah.
[76:21]
Ash
The change in Dr. Tarnauer's attitude towards Gene may have had something to do with his ongoing relationship with a woman named Lynn Tar Typharos, who was his lab assistant at the Scarsdale Medical Group. Lynn and Hai dated kind of casually for a few years. But by the time Gene started at the Madeira School in 1977, Lynn and Hai had become more serious. Like his other relationships, High's relationship with Lynn was not a secret and obviously wasn't something he was trying to keep from Gene. But in the past, Jean had always tried to maintain a casual attitude about High dating other women, including Lynn, herself, himself. But the more and more time they were spending together, Lynn and High, it was clear that something was different here. The relationship seemed far more serious. And for probably the first time in her relationship with him, Jean started to feel uncontrollable jealousy.
[77:13]
Alayna
Oh, no.
[77:14]
Ash
Which I'm sure the meth didn't help.
[77:16]
Alayna
I'm sure that did not help.
[77:17]
Ash
Probably not. Jean's feelings of jealousy were often exacerbated by the overlapping presence of. Of she and Lynn in Dr. Tarnour's life. Yeah, it can be hard. Oh, yeah. Like for instance, on one occasion in July 1976, Jean was spending the weekend at High's apartment in New York, and Lynn just arrived to the apartment with her kids to use his pool.
[77:38]
Alayna
Oof.
[77:39]
Ash
So his kids just hop in the pool and Lynn starts painting the patio furniture. Where? Like around where Jean was sitting. So Jean tried to ignore her for a little bit, but finally turned to Lynn and said, does it not seem bizarre to you, Lynn, that you are here painting his furniture while I'm here?
[77:55]
Alayna
It seems real bizarre.
[77:56]
Ash
It seems bizarre.
[77:57]
Alayna
The whole thing seems bizarre to me, Jean.
[77:59]
Ash
Lynn apparently didn't understand what she meant, and Jean rephrased the question and said, lynn, why the hell are you here? And in response she said, lynn said, I'm here because I'm allowed to be. And she kept painting.
[78:11]
Alayna
Oh, damn.
[78:12]
Ash
I'm like, girls, why do you want this?
[78:15]
Alayna
Yeah, exactly. It's like girls. That's when you do what. What I did.
[78:20]
Ash
You band together up, you get those girlies together. Have you ever. Oh, my God. If anybody is looking for like a good. Like, it's not even like a rom com. I hate to say this, but it's a chick flick.
[78:31]
Alayna
Yeah.
[78:32]
Ash
The Other Woman.
[78:33]
Alayna
Oh, yeah.
[78:34]
Ash
Such a good. Remember we watched that with BA Once.
[78:37]
Alayna
Yes.
[78:38]
Ash
It's such a good movie.
[78:39]
Alayna
We absolutely did.
[78:40]
Ash
I love that.
[78:40]
Alayna
I'm telling you. Best thing you can do, band together.
[78:44]
Ash
And ruin his life.
[78:45]
Alayna
Yeah. Yeah.
[78:46]
Ash
That's all. Not in this case, but. So Lynn has never spoken publicly about her relationship with Herman Tarnauer, and Dr. Tarnow is unable to speak for himself. So we only have Jean's interpretation of events, which are probably biased.
[78:59]
Alayna
Yeah.
[79:00]
Ash
But still, to the outside observer, it did seem that while he might not have orchestrated the run ins between Lynn and Jean, Dr. Tarnaur still got a certain amount of pleasure that came from the drama, you know?
[79:11]
Alayna
Yeah.
[79:12]
Ash
In fact, according to Alexander, many observers surmise that Tarnower deliberately encouraged each woman to be jealous of the next in order to feed his own ego. He encourages Jean to think of Lynn as a. To Lynn, he evidently portrays Gene as a bothersome old lady.
[79:26]
Alayna
Oh, man.
[79:27]
Ash
By the way, that's a quote. That's not my words.
[79:28]
Alayna
Yeah.
[79:29]
Ash
In 1977, shortly before she started her job at the Madeira School, Gene actually started getting harassing phone calls at home from an anonymous caller. Sometimes it was a woman's voice on the other line, and sometimes it was a man's, but it was never a voice that she recognized. Rather than A prank call from some random person. Though the calls seem to be targeting Gene, specifically telling her that she was old and pathetic, quote, unquote, and that she should, quote, unquote, roll over and die.
[79:56]
Alayna
Holy.
[79:57]
Ash
Other times, the caller would describe explicit sex acts that Dr. Tarnauer had performed on other women.
[80:05]
Alayna
Oh.
[80:05]
Ash
And the caller suggested that Gene should, quote, take sex lessons, implying that, like, she wasn't pleasing him anymore. Wow. So she started with getting these calls at home, but before long, she. The call started coming in at work, where the anonymous caller would leave a phone number with Gene's secretary and request a return call. And when Gene would call the number, they would start up again with the harassing comments and just hang up abruptly.
[80:32]
Alayna
Wow.
[80:33]
Ash
Yeah.
[80:33]
Alayna
Also, what are sex lessons?
[80:36]
Ash
I don't know.
[80:39]
Alayna
I'm sorry. That's just like.
[80:41]
Ash
Imagine I'm literally taking it to a place of sex in the city.
[80:44]
Alayna
Again, that's not even a good.
[80:45]
Ash
Like, that's not a good read.
[80:47]
Alayna
You should take some sex lessons. Like, I'd be like, that's stupid. I would say that's a dumb thing to say.
[80:53]
Ash
Remember, though, in Sex in the City, when they go to that tantric sex.
[80:56]
Alayna
Class, that's all I can think of.
[80:57]
Ash
I feel like that's a sex lesson.
[80:59]
Alayna
I guess so.
[80:59]
Ash
But, like, there's more.
[81:01]
Alayna
But what a bad. That feels like something you say when you. When you ran out of. You didn't plan ahead.
[81:06]
Ash
Yeah.
[81:06]
Alayna
You didn't plan your insult ahead. Yeah. Take some sex lessons. Stupid. It's just like, where.
[81:13]
Ash
Okay, where are those. Okie doke.
[81:16]
Alayna
Okie doke.
[81:17]
Ash
Whenever Jean received one of these calls, she would immediately call Lynn and accuse her of making the calls, even though she didn't recognize the voice. Or she. She figured maybe Lynn arranged for somebody else to make the calls.
[81:28]
Alayna
Yeah.
[81:28]
Ash
But every time Lynn claimed she had nothing to do with this and demanded that Gene just stop calling her, she even went as far. Lynn went as far as complaining to High that Gene had been harassing her. And High took Lynn's side and demanded that Gene stop the foolish behavior or he would end their relationship.
[81:44]
Alayna
You gotta end the relationship. Then it's. If he's taken another woman's side, you. He's declared, like, that's. You've heard all you need to hear.
[81:52]
Ash
Yeah. Move forward. He quiet quit. He kind of. Yeah.
[81:55]
Alayna
He absolutely. He, like, loudly quit. Yeah. And it's like, that's. Yeah. Get out of there.
[81:59]
Ash
Yeah. Well, the calls were soon followed by obscene letters sent to Gene's home and office. Which were always written in a very unfamiliar handwriting. In time, she changed her phone number. Actually multiple times. But every time, this caller managed to get the new number and the harassment continued.
[82:16]
Alayna
Geez.
[82:16]
Ash
You have to assume it was somebody that he was seeing.
[82:18]
Alayna
Absolutely.
[82:19]
Ash
Because I don't think Lynn and Jean were the only people he was seeing.
[82:22]
Alayna
So doesn't sound like.
[82:23]
Ash
I'm sure he had some kind of. What it Rotodile. Is that like what it is where you like Rolodex? Rolodex.
[82:29]
Alayna
I liked your version, though.
[82:30]
Ash
What did I say?
[82:31]
Alayna
Rotodile? I don't know.
[82:33]
Ash
Roboro.
[82:34]
Alayna
Oh, we had a Rolodex at mom office house. I remember.
[82:37]
Ash
Picture it. Yeah, I used to flick through it when I was little. But I'm sure he had one of those 100%. And would write down Gene's new number and someone would get it.
[82:45]
Alayna
Yeah.
[82:45]
Ash
But before long, the stress started taking a toll on Gene, which only exacerbated her depression and anxiety. And one day in 1978, she got a call from a former co worker at the Thomas School, psychiatric social worker Sig Gerhardt, wondering if she might be planning to be in New York City soon. Gerhardt always respected Jean and really loved working with her. He said to me, she represented everything I think an educated woman should be. But for all her professionalism, he could tell that she was in distress. He said later she was in great fear of something, like she was paranoid. So he had no immediate plans to be in the city. But he told Gene that if it was important, he would make the time and go see her. So she declined to take him up on the offer, immediately minimizing her needs. He said she wouldn't open up. She wouldn't tell me what it was. And I never heard from her again.
[83:35]
Alayna
But.
[83:36]
Ash
But it was very clear she was not doing well.
[83:39]
Alayna
No, it doesn't sound like it.
[83:40]
Ash
Yeah. The mysterious phone calls and letters, which would literally never be solved, weren't the only harassment that Jean experienced at the time. In 1979, after returning home from a trip to the Caribbean with high, she found several pieces of her clothing that she kept at his apartment had been slashed and ripped. And it also appeared that several items of clothing had been speared with something, quote, brown and sticky that Jean concluded was feces.
[84:10]
Alayna
That. Yeah, yeah, nothing's worth this, everybody. It's not nothing and no one is worth this.
[84:21]
Ash
Yeah, no, that's what it. Feces on my clothes. I'm out.
[84:27]
Alayna
Yeah, you got. That's if there. That's. That's where it is. I mean my personally mine is way before that. But like your boundaries should be there.
[84:37]
Ash
Yeah.
[84:38]
Alayna
That should be really. When you. Yeah, that's when you know what we. We did what we had to do. We said what we had to say. This is not.
[84:47]
Ash
If it's getting to a point where is getting smeared on my clothes. I'm gonna go.
[84:51]
Alayna
When it's rule of thumb to a point of feces. I'm not.
[84:55]
Ash
Peace out.
[84:56]
Alayna
I'm not. I am ride or die until feces become involved. And I'm.
[85:00]
Ash
Then when feces enters the chat, you leave.
[85:03]
Alayna
I leave. Yeah. That's when I leave the conversation. That's really upsetting.
[85:08]
Ash
It is. And you just wonder who it was.
[85:10]
Alayna
That's the thing. I'm like, who the did that?
[85:12]
Ash
We never find out.
[85:13]
Alayna
God, I don't want to.
[85:14]
Ash
I don't. Yeah, I don't even want to know. But like the harassing phone calls. Gene herself concluded that Lynn was behind the destruct. The destruction of her clothing, of course. But she could never say with complaints. Complete certainty. No, she never would be able to. But she would devolve a lot further into madness, I would say. And a lot of just other really sad things that we're gonna get into in part two.
[85:38]
Alayna
Oh man.
[85:39]
Ash
I think we really set the scene there. We got to know Jean early childhood. We're ramping up and we're. We're on a downward trajectory now.
[85:49]
Alayna
Yeah.
[85:50]
Ash
So we're gonna save that for part two.
[85:51]
Alayna
I feel like it's. I feel like the pressure cooker is strategically placed and I think it's coming.
[85:58]
Ash
Yeah, it's on and it's full of feces.
[86:00]
Alayna
Oh, no.
[86:01]
Ash
Yeah, no, there's no more feces.
[86:03]
Alayna
Okay, good. I was like, oh, no.
[86:04]
Ash
Can you imagine?
[86:05]
Alayna
Tell me there's not a ton of feces here.
[86:07]
Ash
No, that's it. So in the meantime, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird.
[86:14]
Alayna
You want to do it so weird that you join us for our bonus episode. Episode that's going to come out tomorrow on March 7th and it's gonna be a fucking banger. Please stay with us. Even though we said feces a lot.
[86:29]
Ash
Feces is fun. It's better than shit.
[86:31]
Alayna
Come back tomorrow.
[86:32]
Ash
See ya.
[87:09]
Alayna
Foreign.
[87:23]
Ash
If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com.
[87:39]
C
Are you captivated by the dark and mysterious world of true crime? Wondery offers you the ultimate true crime experience with early access to new episodes, exclusive content and a seamless ad. Free listening journey with Onery plus you'll get access to hundreds of podcasts, including more than 50 true crime series like Dr. Death, the shocking true story of a trusted surgeon who brought brought unimaginable pain and suffering to his patients.
[88:04]
Alayna
This was not an operation that was performed, this was attempted murder.
[88:08]
C
And there's Morbid, the hit podcast that's a light hearted nightmare. With Wandery plus you get access to exclusive bonus content too, allowing you to dive deeper into the cases you love. Like in Suspect, where an ordinary Halloween party turned into a terrifying murder mystery that left its mark on the community.
[88:26]
Alayna
This case is one of those rocks.
[88:27]
C
Roller coaster rides where it's like no, he did it for sure.
[88:30]
Ash
No he for sure he did it.
[88:32]
C
Each story is crafted to keep you enthralled, revealing the complexities and motivations behind every crime. Subscribe to Wondery on the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify today. Unlock the door to a world of true crime like never before with Wondery Plus. The best true crime stories are always at your fingertips.