Episode 673: Random Creepy Things with Nicholas

Summary

Morbid Podcast Episode 673: "Random Creepy Things with Nicholas"

Released May 19, 2025 by Morbid Network | Wondery

---

Introduction: Embracing Summer's Spookiness

The episode kicks off with Elena and Ash engaging in their characteristic banter about the unseasonably humid weather, setting a lighthearted tone before delving into the darker themes of the episode. Their playful arguments about missing fall and embracing "Summerween and Slasher summer" establish a relatable and humorous foundation for the listeners.

Notable Quote:

• Elena (03:24): "You guys know I don't love summer, but I've decided to get into it this year because the Summerween and Slasher summer, I'm trying to get in that vibe. It's gonna be fun and I'm excited for that."

---

Segment 1: Unveiling the Horrors of Forest Haven Asylum

Elena introduces the grim history of Forest Haven Asylum, an institution in Laurel, Maryland, originally established in 1925 as a progressive farm colony designed to treat children and young adults deemed mentally ill. Initially, the asylum was a nurturing environment with therapies, sports, and community involvement. However, the narrative takes a dark turn as funding cuts in the 1960s lead to severe neglect and abuse.

Key points discussed include:

• Overcrowding and Neglect: At its peak, Forest Haven housed over a thousand patients but failed to provide adequate care.
• Abuse and Torture: Patients suffered physical and sexual abuse from staff, including improper feeding practices that led to deaths from aspiration pneumonia.
• Unmarkered Mass Graves: Over the years, many patients died under deplorable conditions and were buried in unmarked graves on the property.

Notable Quotes:

• Elena (12:47): "We're just put in this place to be forgotten about. Yeah. So this is huge."
• Ash (19:15): "Aspiration pneumonia was a leading cause of death there, which happens when, and especially in this kind of environment, when feeding procedures are basically not being followed safely."

The hosts highlight poignant testimonies, including those of mayor Vincent Gray, who expressed haunting memories of the inhumane treatment at the asylum. Despite multiple lawsuits in the 1970s aimed at addressing the atrocities, systemic issues persisted, culminating in the institution's closure in 1991 after decades of suffering and neglect.

Notable Quote:

• Elena (21:08): "Mayor Vincent Gray... said the place was inhumane. It was a very negative experience. And he told the Washington examiner his most vivid memory... seeing nude residents paraded outdoors to be hosed down by staff members."

---

Segment 2: Exploring Spider Gates Cemetery in Lester, Massachusetts

Transitioning from the dark history of Forest Haven Asylum, Elena and Ash delve into the eerie Spider Gates Cemetery in Lester, Massachusetts. Established in the 1700s and also known as the Eighth Gate to Hell, this cemetery is surrounded by legends and paranormal tales.

Key elements discussed:

• Architectural Anomalies: The cemetery's gates, designed in an art deco style resembling spiders, were stolen and vandalized, leading to their relocation by the Lester Historical Society in 2022.
• Haunted Legends: Tales of ghostly apparitions, such as the lingering mist resembling human forms and inexplicable cold touches in hallways.
• Mythological Connections: The cemetery is linked to Greek mythology, with references to Charon, the ferryman who requires a coin for passage to the afterlife, and the river Sticks, a portal to hell.

Notable Quotes:

• Ash (41:00): "Ghost to hate. Apparently the other seven are at various locations spread throughout the country. I don't know where they are."
• Elena (35:33): "There’s a... a river on the property that a lot of people think is the river sticks. Which, like, if you show up with the intention of heading to hell and you don't have payment, I don't recommend that personally because they say that if you do that to the ferryman, he will... you will have to wander around the river, the shore river, all of it."

The hosts emphasize the cemetery's chilling reputation, discussing firsthand accounts and recorded EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomena) experiences that lend credence to its haunted status. They explore the psychological impact of such places, noting the pervasive feeling of dread and sadness that visitors often report.

Notable Quote:

• Elena (36:25): "One of the things people really talk about is just the intense feeling of dread in that place. People say it's like sadness is something you can touch in there."

---

Segment 3: Listener Tale – A Spooky Date at Spider Gates Cemetery

A significant portion of the episode features a listener story contributed by a fan named D. Ash narrates D's chilling experience during a date at Spider Gates Cemetery, which culminates in supernatural occurrences that ultimately lead to a tale of love and lingering mystery.

Story Highlights:

• The Date: Ash meets a romantic interest through Tinder who suggests a night-time visit to Spider Gates Cemetery.
• Supernatural Encounters: The date night includes eerie phenomena such as a foggy mist resembling a human form, an unexplained touch on Ash's back, and a distant scream from the woods.
• Resolution: Despite the terrifying events, the date proves to be fatefully significant, resulting in marriage and the birth of a child five years later.

Notable Quotes:

• Ash (53:21): "What a casual sentence."
• Elena (55:27): "What's going on?"
• Ash (57:08): "A shiver went down my back, through my crack, and around the corner. I had never in my life been touched by a spirit, and it was the most natural yet unnatural feeling ever."
• Ash (58:13): "To this day, I talk about that experience with my husband and he still laughs at how freaked out I got."

This segment beautifully intertwines personal storytelling with spooky elements, showcasing how true crime and paranormal experiences can lead to unexpected life paths.

---

Segment 4: The Role of Nicholas – A Paranormal Presence

Throughout the episode, a recurring character named Nicholas adds an extra layer of eerie interactivity. Although not a traditional guest, Nicholas appears to be a spectral entity interacting with the hosts, often interjecting with cryptic or humorous remarks.

Notable Interactions:

• Nicholas (05:34): "Elena has a problem with the poltergeist."
• Ash (08:47): "He just... he's a King Nicholas for life. He said. Serving Nicholas. Very, very much. Okay. I think Nicholas is a gay icon. Personally."
• Nicholas (58:55): "You can’t make this shit up. He’s being so mean."

These interactions serve to blend humor with horror, creating a unique dynamic that keeps listeners engaged and adds depth to the spooky narrative.

Notable Quote:

• Elena (59:15): "Nicholas, do you have anything nice to say? Understand? Do you understand that I'm mad at you?"
• Ash (60:07): "Does that freak you out, says. Because, by the way, you couldn't make this up, hates it!”

---

Conclusion: Reflecting on Horrors and Hauntings

As the episode wraps up, Elena and Ash reflect on the tragic histories and lingering hauntings of both Forest Haven Asylum and Spider Gates Cemetery. They emphasize the importance of remembering and honoring those who suffered in such inhumane conditions, underscoring the supernatural elements as echoes of past horrors.

Closing Thoughts:

• The hosts express a mix of fascination and horror, highlighting their desire to explore these eerie sites further while acknowledging the real human tragedies behind the legends.
• The episode closes with heartfelt messages to their listeners and a playful nod to their spectral friend, Nicholas, maintaining the blend of humor and horror that defines Morbid.

Notable Quote:

• Elena (60:00): "And we hope you keep it weird."
• Ash (60:12): "What does that mean?"

---

Key Takeaways:

• Forest Haven Asylum serves as a chilling reminder of historical abuses within mental health institutions, highlighting systemic failures and human rights violations.
• Spider Gates Cemetery is steeped in myths and paranormal activity, making it a focal point for ghost enthusiasts and storytellers.
• Listener tales like D's add personal depth and relatability, bridging the gap between fictional horror and real-life experiences.
• Nicholas, the spectral presence, enhances the episode's spooky atmosphere while providing comic relief.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Elena (03:24):

   "You guys know I don't love summer, but I've decided to get into it this year because the Summerween and Slasher summer, I'm trying to get in that vibe. It's gonna be fun and I'm excited for that."

2. Elena (12:47):

   "We're just put in this place to be forgotten about. Yeah. So this is huge."

3. Ash (19:15):

   "Aspiration pneumonia was a leading cause of death there, which happens when, and especially in this kind of environment, when feeding procedures are basically not being followed safely."

4. Elena (21:08):

   "Mayor Vincent Gray... said the place was inhumane. It was a very negative experience. And he told the Washington examiner his most vivid memory... seeing nude residents paraded outdoors to be hosed down by staff members."

5. Ash (41:00):

   "Ghost to hate. Apparently the other seven are at various locations spread throughout the country. I don't know where they are."

6. Elena (36:25):

   "One of the things people really talk about is just the intense feeling of dread in that place. People say it's like sadness is something you can touch in there."

7. Ash (53:21):

   "What a casual sentence."

8. Ash (57:08):

   "A shiver went down my back, through my crack, and around the corner. I had never in my life been touched by a spirit, and it was the most natural yet unnatural feeling ever."

9. Elena (59:15):

   "Nicholas, do you have anything nice to say? Understand? Do you understand that I'm mad at you?"

10. Elena (60:00):

    "And we hope you keep it weird."

---

Final Note: Episode 673 of Morbid masterfully intertwines historical horror, personal storytelling, and paranormal fun, delivering a rich and engaging narrative that captivates both true crime aficionados and ghost story enthusiasts. Through detailed exploration of haunted sites and interactive banter with the enigmatic Nicholas, Elena and Ash provide a compelling listening experience that is both informative and spine-chilling.

Transcript

[Elena]

Hey, weirdos. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about a place where the darkness never ends. Wondery. It's like stepping into a haunted mansion where the floorboards creak with ad free episodes. And early access to new episodes lurks around every corner. So come join us if you dare. Morbid is available one week early and ad free only on Wondery. You can join Wondery in the Wondery app or in Apple podcasts or Spotify.

[Ash]

You're listening to a Morbid network podcast. We get support from Amazon Prime. Hey weirdos. You know what's literally the most amazing thing ever? Amazon Prime. Listen up, because this is gonna blow your minds. With prime, you get faster than lightning delivery on, like, everything. We're talking millions of items. Literally everything you could ever want or need. But wait, there's more. There's more than everything you could want or need. Prime Video lets you binge all those shows we're obsessed with. And Amazon music has the bops for your next dance party. I have been ordering a little bit on prime lately. I had to get some earplugs the other night because my husband was a snorri snore snoring. And I said, please send them to me the very next day. And they did. That was great. Loved that. Whether you're a total bookworm, a gaming fanatic, or you just really like trying new things or sleeping through the night without your husband snoring waking you up, Prime's got your back. Ebooks for days, free in game goodies and everything you need to make your next DIY project from streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com to get more out of whatever you're into.

[Leon Nayfak]

Hey listeners, it's Leon Nayfak. I'm here to tell you about a brand new series from me and Prologue projects an Audible original series called Final Jerry Springer, the story of a television show that changed the world and the man who gave it his name. But did you know that before the Jerry Springer show made him notorious all over the world, Springer was something else entirely. A respected Midwestern politician, the progressive mayor of a major Rust Belt city, a man many saw as a future leader in Democratic politics. How did this idealistic rising star with his lofty political ambitions take a turn in such a radically different direction? You can find the whole series available now on Audible. Just search for final thoughts Jerry Springer on the Audible app or go to audible.com Springer hey weirdos.

[Ash]

I'm Ash.

[Elena]

And I'm Elena.

[Ash]

And this is Morbid.

[Elena]

This is morbid. And it is humid and swampy outside. Like it's fucking Florida or some shit.

[Ash]

We haven't even been outside today though.

[Elena]

Yeah, but I was told by reputable sources.

[Ash]

Yeah, but I know.

[Elena]

Meaning my husband texted me and said it's like Florida outside. It's humid.

[Ash]

No, he's a very reputable source. Well, the problem. It wasn't even fucking humid in Florida when we were there. So now we're back home and we have to deal with humidity and guess what? Not good for my hair.

[Elena]

Yeah, I don't like it.

[Ash]

Not good for my hair that I blow dried this goddamn morning.

[Elena]

One thing, I am excited though.

[Ash]

Thanks for caring.

[Elena]

I don't. I don't. Moving on.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Elena]

You guys know I don't love summer, but I've decided to get into it this year because the Summerween and Slasher summer, I'm trying to get in that vibe. It's gonna be fun and I'm excited for that. So I'm trying to like, get in a different state of mind for summer because this is usually the time of the year when I say it. I need fall more than I need oxygen.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Elena]

And it hurts. I want it so bad. Like I'm there now. Like it's hurting me.

[Ash]

It's.

[Elena]

I'm in pain right now.

[Ash]

Literally. May 2nd.

[Elena]

Yeah, that's. That's my favorite response is whenever I say that, somebody just goes, checks calendar. It's this date. And I say, no, I know that that's what hurts, is that it's not October.

[Ash]

She's gonna square up right now. She said that is always the response. I know what the fucking date is. Put your fucking arms up.

[Elena]

It's always the response. I say, wow, I really want fall. And people are like, it's May 3rd. And I'm like, I know if it wasn't May 3rd, I wouldn't be miss. I would be in fall. I know that.

[Ash]

I think we're gonna have to noise regulate this episode because we screamin' we screamin' Listen, I like summer. I'm ready for my birthday, which is in one month. We're not even in Gemini season yet. So I'm excited for Summerween. And you can feel how you feel and I can feel how I feel. And we can still run a successful podcast together.

[Elena]

So, you know it's May 2nd. It is.

[Ash]

I know. Do you know? Listen, I was being mature.

[Elena]

I was being mature.

[Ash]

I was being mature right there. And you weren't. Maybe that's why Nicholas has a Problem with you?

[Elena]

Oh, we got talk about that, guys. So this is a fake fight, by the way. It is.

[Ash]

I think we opened up a few episodes fighting.

[Elena]

Yeah. And I feel like that's gonna start a whole thing where I'm gonna be chased with pitchforks.

[Ash]

Maybe they'll chase me.

[Elena]

No, I can't run.

[Ash]

So don't do that.

[Elena]

I won't run.

[Ash]

I will not run.

[Elena]

So, no, this is totally fake. We're. We're totally fine jokes.

[Ash]

We.

[Elena]

We're in a silly, goofy mood.

[Ash]

Help me shut the up. I'm just.

[Elena]

Shut the up. But no, on a light note. But. Nope, on a little bit of a scary note, actually.

[Ash]

Elena has a problem with the poltergeist.

[Elena]

Okay, so here we are.

[Ash]

Maybe not.

[Elena]

This is a spooky episode. We didn't. We started out with a theme, and then we said, now, are you okay? Oh, see? He's trying to make it right.

[Ash]

Maybe he asked me if I was okay.

[Elena]

Because, I mean, that's like a ghost lyric. I like that.

[Ash]

Maybe. Maybe that's Fall talking to you, I think.

[Elena]

Nicholas.

[Ash]

Mother.

[Elena]

Okay, we're back. Me and Nicholas are back. He heard me starting to talk about it, and he was like, I'm sorry I hurt you.

[Ash]

Maybe I'm not sold.

[Elena]

He's. He's responding okay. Nicholas, I'm sorry. I'm gonna talk about our fight, but we're fine. We're totally cool now.

[Ash]

Okay, going back. If you guys watched or listened to listener tales episode 666. We had a special guest, Nicholas, on It's the Ghost Tube app. We're gonna have him. We're gonna put it up whenever we do spooky episodes.

[Elena]

Yeah, just spooky episodes. Or maybe when we feel like it.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

You guys seem to like it, though. It was fun. He doesn't interrupt that much, and when he does, it's very pertinent information. So we named him Nicholas because he named himself Nicholas. That's how that works. We said, what's your name? And he said, nicholas.

[Ash]

And we said, okay, Nicholas it is.

[Elena]

Nicholas and I were broies the last time I felt a deep connection to him. So we started off this episode, and I was like. I was like, nicholas, what's going on? And he said he was struggling, and I was like, oh, no. And I said, tell me your woes, Nicholas. And he responded, you. And I said, whoa, this is our first fight, and this is okay, but.

[Ash]

Maybe his woes are you because, like, he lives here and because he can't. Like, he can't Love you because you're not even on the same plane and you're married. I'm telling John.

[Elena]

I think that's me and Nicholas's dynamic, I think because he just.

[Ash]

He. You're his forbidden love.

[Elena]

Heard that. I misunderstood.

[Ash]

Although he didn't just call you mug, so.

[Elena]

Yeah, that's weird.

[Ash]

Maybe he thinks you're an icon.

[Elena]

It's okay. He thinks? Yeah, he's like, mother.

[Ash]

He'S lost.

[Elena]

He's lost. See?

[Ash]

He said no. He said, I don't even know how I feel.

[Elena]

What did he say?

[Ash]

Possessed. I'd like to not be Nicholas.

[Elena]

We're okay. We're okay now, Nicholas. We understand each other. Nicholas. I get it. Okay?

[Ash]

Yeah. It's complicated on Facebook.

[Elena]

Some people don't understand our snark. Okay. But this is how we do. That's right, Mother.

[Ash]

So Nicholas is gonna be.

[Elena]

Is gonna be around. And Nicholas will chime in when he feels like he has something to say.

[Ash]

When he sees fit.

[Elena]

And again, we were gonna make this like a themed spooky episode, but then we just got crazy with it. And Ash chose a cemetery. I chose an institution like an asylum. And we're just going with that. So there's no real theme except spooky. This is fucking spooky. So Nicholas is the theme.

[Ash]

He's the Nicholas. Serving Nicholas.

[Elena]

Serving Nicholas.

[Ash]

Mother so very much.

[Elena]

Very much. He just.

[Ash]

Oh, my God. Wow. He's a King Nicholas for life. He said. Serving Nicholas. Very, very much. Okay. I think Nicholas is a gay icon. Personally.

[Elena]

Personally.

[Ash]

Is he gonna be on the season of All Stars?

[Elena]

I'm obsessed with Nicholas.

[Ash]

Maybe.

[Elena]

Oh, my God. Did he say maybe?

[Ash]

We have a full blown relationship with a gay paranormal icon. Get on our goddamn level. I am literally obsessed. I've never been. I, quite frankly, never been happier. He said maybe. Catch me on RuPaul's Drag Race season 17. Wow. Oh, my goodness.

[Elena]

Nicholas, you bring joy. Wow. Okay. I don't even know how to follow that up, but I don't think you can.

[Ash]

Episode done. Bye. Thanks for listening.

[Elena]

So I found this. So searching for spooky places, I didn't know what I wanted to do at first. I was looking for cemeteries. That's how this did lead me here. Because Ash had found a cemetery she wanted to do. And I was like, all right, I will find a cemetery. So the reason I found this is it's. It's an old asylum. I'm going to get into all the. All the nitty gritty. It's really horrible. So buckle in. But there is a cemetery on the site of this place, but it's like a mass grave. Oh. So it's technically a cemetery. But that's what led me to this. And then when I found out the history. Water.

[Ash]

You need some? I'm empty on water, actually. Are you asking?

[Elena]

So when I got further into, like the history of this, that's when I.

[Ash]

Was like, you're literally about to take a sip of your water. This water just yeeted down to her.

[Elena]

Water bottle, said, hydrate.

[Ash]

She said, okay, as you wish.

[Elena]

Yeah, as you wish, Nicholas. So I'm going. And then as I got into, like the, you know, the background of this place, and it's like. It's just horrifying history, I found that Sam and Colby had gone to this.

[Ash]

Place and explored it.

[Elena]

So I watched that video because I wanted to see what that was about. And they experienced something crazy there. So I. I urge you to go look up their. Their video about it. But yeah, it's a very scary place. It was a very scary history. And again, this is going to be a little upsetting at times. This is not. It's a. It's like an institution. So that's not great.

[Ash]

Mine will palate cleanse a bit.

[Elena]

Yeah. So this is Forest Haven Asylum. It was opened in 1925. It was opened under a much more offensive but very of the time name. It was the. So part of that was the district training school for something that. I will not say no. It was named Forest haven asylum in 1963.

[Ash]

That's better.

[Elena]

That's when they.

[Ash]

I mean, still pretty shitty, but yeah.

[Elena]

And somehow it got shittier after that. So I don't know how that happened.

[Ash]

Oh, it did.

[Elena]

It was intended initially to. To treat children and young adults and more. It was a really bad hotel. They were treating children and young adults in Laurel, Maryland, and it was serving the people of the District Columbia as well. Like, they had a big range. It was going to be taking in people who were deemed mentally ill at the time, like severely mentally ill. But later it went way far out of those parameters. Far enough to bring in kids and young adults that were just deemed not quote, unquote, normal by society or were just people that nobody wanted to deal with anymore.

[Ash]

That's horrible.

[Elena]

There was also times when people were taken from their families against their family's will and put into this place. Yeah.

[Ash]

How did that happen?

[Elena]

It was really bad. I mean, there is a time, and we'll get to it, that an orphanage closed nearby and 20 orphans were just written down. In documentation as being mentally ill to be put into this place because they didn't have anywhere else to put them.

[Ash]

Holy.

[Elena]

So completely, you know, like, just like average kids.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Happen to be orphans. Don't have any illnesses too, that we could see.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

We're just put in this place to be forgotten about. Yeah. So this is huge. This place is gigantic. It has 30 structures. It covers 250 acres.

[Ash]

Damn.

[Elena]

It's kind of in the middle of nowhere in a forest. Like, it's definitely pushed off, which a lot of these places usually were. Yeah. On the entryway into the main building. And it's still there. There's a bronze plaque that says, yet while I live, let me not live in vain. Which is chilling because all of them did.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, they did not follow that.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

At the height of its operation, it had over a thousand patients, which they were referring to as inmates at the time. Way overcrowded. Way overcrowded. When it initially opened in the 20s, and this is what's wild. It was an. It was initially created as like a progressive farm colony style thing. Like, they had opened it as an institution, but what they wanted to do was make it more like a wellness thing. They wanted to actually help these kids and these young adults, like, grow and thrive and, like, nourish them.

[Ash]

Therapy.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like truly make it like a wellness thing. In the beginning, they were learning life skills, farm skills. They were like, doing work and training for certain things and having, like, a real feeling of being part of a community. They were providing for the community as well with the farming stuff. So, like, they were. They were given purpose. Like. Yeah, everything there was supposed to be, like, super chill. There was a lot there too in the beginning. There was basketball courts, a baseball field. They would publish the scores of the baseball games in the papers sometimes at first.

[Ash]

Oh, that's cool.

[Elena]

So initially this was like, great.

[Ash]

Like a community.

[Elena]

And it was being, like, held up as, like, this great place. Like, great stories were coming out. I mean, they had theaters there, they had a gym. They had all kinds of things to keep the patients busy and active and their minds working.

[Ash]

How did it all go to shit?

[Elena]

Everything was calm and nurturing. Well, in the 1960s, the funding started to be pulled back. And once the funding got pulled back, the asylum was suffering.

[Ash]

Once the temperature started rising, I realized I was back in the same worn out rotation. My uniform, as I like to call it, oversized T shirt, bike shorts. I said, I can't do this every day. So I gave my daily uniform an upgrade with quints Their pieces are easy, elevated and somehow make me feel more put together really, without even trying. Like 100% European linen shorts and dresses from $30 Luxe Swimwear. Italian leather platform sandals which are actually so freaking cute and so much more absolutely. Love, love love Quince. I have so many dresses from there that I wear all summer long and these are quality pieces. You know how like sometimes you'll grab a dress somewhere while you're out? You're like, oh, that'll be cute. You wash it a couple times and the quality is just gone? Not Quince. I've washed all my dresses from them a million times over and they still look like I just got them. Treat your closet to a little summer glow up with quints. Go to quince.commorbid for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E do to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.commorbid this show is sponsored by Better Help. I feel like it is so, so, so important, top priority to maintain your mental health, especially in the world we live in today. My goodness. And I think therapy has become so much more acceptable over the years. I think it should have been a long time ago because mental health awareness is luckily growing. But there's still progress to be made. 26% of Americans who participated in a recent survey say that they've actually avoided seeking mental due to fear of judgment. No judgment here. When people hesitate to get help, it doesn't just affect them, it impacts families, workplaces and entire communities. I have personally benefited so much from therapy. People in my family have benefited from therapy and you can really see in certain people's interactions like who's in therapy and who's benefiting from it. It makes all the difference. Well, if you're thinking of starting therapy, I think better help is a great option because Better help has over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist from their diverse network of more than thousand licensed therapists with a wide range of specialties. Easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost because we're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.commorbid to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H lp.commorbid.

[Elena]

They started to take in people outside of the way, outside of the parameters, mostly, like I said, without their family's consent. Some of them were like basically kidnapped. Like people with epilepsy were put here, people with just hearing problems. What people with tuberculosis.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Elena]

Kids. The kids from the orphanages without any known disabilities. According to Ghost adventures in the 70s. There was a lawsuit about this, but I'll get into these lawsuits, too, because they were wild, but, like, nothing fixed anything. Even these lawsuits. Yeah, it is pretty plausible, but, like, they didn't fix anything.

[Ash]

They kept Wednesday. Okay. Whoa, your leg, honey.

[Elena]

I'm sorry.

[Ash]

He said mistress. Mistress. Wednesday. Your leg. You better put your legs back up. Mine are exposed. God damn. Yes, that's your man. That's your poulter man.

[Elena]

I think there might be two in there.

[Ash]

Two. Man says so.

[Elena]

Yeah. They kept on taking patience, you know, like I said, of all different kinds. Like, people who didn't. Wouldn't necessarily be, quote, unquote, institutionalized.

[Ash]

Sure.

[Elena]

And, you know, now the recreation programs were being cut. Like, it wasn't this nurturing farming community anymore that they were learning things. It became crazy overcrowded. They were not being monitored. Monitored. They were not being stimulated in any way, shape, or form. They would just leave them to just, like, wander around doing nothing. That is. I do like you. They are monsters. They would end up being, like, sexually assaulted, physically assaulted by staff, by other patients. Like, it was. Jesus. A literal. It was a hell house. Like, it is called a hell house.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

It's awful. And the only attention these patients were receiving at this point, like, they were being totally neglected.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

And if they did get attention, it was abuse. That's all it was. That's all the attention that they were getting. And so staff was also being replaced with completely unqualified people. They were allowing doctors with suspended licenses to continue working there, meaning the state of Maryland had deemed these people not suitable to practice medicine anymore. And.

[Ash]

Yeah. What?

[Elena]

I agreed. Yeah, it's nuts. Nicholas gets it. But again, the abuse was widespread and it was awful. Aspiration pneumonia was a leading cause of death there, which happens when, and especially in this kind of environment, when feeding procedures are basically not being followed safely. They would force feed patients. They would feed people laying down. Oftentimes, oh, my God. They would use improper feeding tubes. In fact, the laying down while feeding was like, a thing. Like, they were constantly being fed while laying flat on their back. So stupid.

[Ash]

That is stupid.

[Elena]

Nicholas.

[Ash]

This is wild. He's, like, legitimately responding.

[Elena]

He's really kind of freaking me out. Yeah, that is stupid.

[Ash]

But no, like, it's also just, like, diabolical.

[Elena]

It is.

[Ash]

You don't need to do that. It's senseless.

[Elena]

And it's like, how is nobody training them to do a Better job. Like to learn feeding procedures.

[Ash]

That would cost money.

[Elena]

Yeah, exactly. Now, deaths from neglect and torture were just skyrocketing at this point. There was also punishments. Like, they would be, you know, thrown into rooms by themselves and left there for days. They would be hit with bats. They would end up with missing teeth. They would be hit with belts like, horrible shit. Horrible shit. Mayor Vincent Gray, the Director of the D.C. department of Human Services at the time.

[Ash]

Were there human services at the time?

[Elena]

Well, he said he was forever haunted by the place and the sights that were seen even from the outside there. So he said the place was inhumane. It was a very negative experience. And he told the Washington. Washington examiner his most vivid memory of the place was seeing. And this is very upsetting, just so everyone knows, was seeing nude residents paraded outdoors to be hosed down by staff members.

[Ash]

Oh, my God. Yeah, you have to be demonic to do to somebody.

[Elena]

You have to be demonic. So a Washington Post article, there was a quote in there that said, workers here, because of frustration and lack of help, tend to abuse residents. Of all of our residents, I'd add some 400 don't belong here. Yeah, that's difficult. It is difficult.

[Ash]

That's not frustration or lack of help, though. That's lack of humanity.

[Elena]

Exactly. I can't claim over stimulation. Frustration, like, control yourself.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

In many incidents, the facility is contributing to the handicap. So they're saying, like, a lot of times these people aren't coming in here with any issues, but they are creating issues while they're here. Medical experiments were happening. They were putting them naked in freezing cold baths.

[Ash]

What the.

[Elena]

Which often caused the deaths. Some death certificates would say. Some death certificates would say they died from burns, which is awful. Tons of patients were crowded into padded rooms together and left for days with no food, nowhere to sit, nothing to do. They also used. They utilized, like, adult cribs where they would strap them in there and they wouldn't be able to leave.

[Ash]

That's really sad.

[Elena]

There was also a morgue in the basement, obviously, because these places have to have one that makes sense. But this one was like, one that they could, like, expedite. If someone died, they would just rush them on down there and scoot them out to get buried with no one looking. Yeah. And they were buried in unmarked graves in a big field right on the property. Mass graves. Like, tons. That is so up nothing. And it's very creepy now because if you look at, like, aerial shots of this place or if you go there, which, by the way, you can't legally go there, you have to get permission to go there. Now, it's like a government area, and it's patrolled by security guards.

[Ash]

Okay. And it's also, like, highly dangerous.

[Elena]

If you watch the Sam and Colby video, they literally had to, like, dodge security guards. It's like, don't do that. But, like, they.

[Ash]

It's.

[Elena]

You'll get in big trouble now. So I don't want to send anyone there. But if you were to get permission to be on these grounds, you would see that there's depressions in the field. That's the cemetery where these people were buried side by side, like, hundreds of them. It's so difficult.

[Ash]

It's weird. You keep saying that.

[Elena]

I know. And they're all, like, side by side in rows, and it's like erosion is happening. So it's starting to show where the graves are. It's very spooky. A woman named Tina Simmons from the Laurel Historical Society, she worked in genealogy. She has done a ton of research naming these people, like, finding out who these people were. Oh, good for her, finding their graves. And she had found 16 individuals that, like, there's a monument to these people that was finally erected, but she found 16 people who are not listed on that monument, that, like, weren't listed. So they don't know who they are.

[Ash]

Did you do the monument? Right?

[Elena]

Yeah. Like, they're. I have no idea. But she found deaths because she found all these death certificates for these people. These deaths in this institution range from three hours old. So somebody three hours old. Oh, wow. To 65 years old.

[Ash]

What the fuck?

[Elena]

And the three hours old ones, they said those are very nefarious because that means somebody either entered in pregnant, which was rare, or something happened in there that they became pregnant. And it's like. That's scary. That's like there was so much sexual abuse in here. If you are looking it up sometimes. This cemetery, this makeshift cemetery, is called the District Training school Cemetery. The first recorded death here, and it was recorded, according to the Laurel historical society, was 1928. Okay, so three years after they opened in 1950. This is just an interesting one that I found in a newspaper. Two boys, Arthur Swan, who was 16 years old, and Raymond Thorne, who was 17, escaped from the institution after stealing a rifle from an employee's locker.

[Ash]

Damn.

[Elena]

They left for a night, and then Arthur returned the next day without Raymond. The director said he wasn't super concerned when they ran off because especially Arthur was a, quote, regular absconder. So he would. He would escape a lot.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Elena]

When Arthur came back, he started teasing and hinting that he, quote, knew where there was a dead body. Oh, they ignored this for a while, but then they called the authorities finally when he started, like really ramping these things up. And they were able to locate the murdered body of Raymond Thorne, who he had run away with. He had killed him with the rifle, left the rifle on top of him and just like dumped him in the woods.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Now, again, in the early 1550s, Geraldine Griggs, who was a 15 year old patient at the institution, was paralyzed. She had gone in paralyzed. She will touch you. I don't like that. That one wasn't good. No, Nicholas, I didn't like that one.

[Ash]

Nicholas, stop it.

[Elena]

Step back. That one was upsetting. Yeah, this one is horrifying because this, this nurse never really faced charges for this. Oh, what'd she do? She was 15 years old. She was paralyzed. She drowned in a bathtub. So a nurse, Elsie Stambach, put her in the tub and then left her alone to take care of another patient. And Geraldine drowned. She's paralyzed.

[Ash]

You can't leave.

[Elena]

What are you doing putting a paralyzed young girl in a tub and leaving her there? Oh my God. If something happens, she can't move to get herself above the water. That's. So what are you doing? This should be pretty common sense. Charges were brought, but they were dropped and she resigned. But like LC Girl, that kind of was pretty regular in 1970, and this is really awful just to tell you. A young 8 year old girl named Joy Evans was sent here because she required 24 hour care and her parents had to work and couldn't provide it. Her mother, Betty said when she was first sent there, she almost immediately started seeing issues happening. She would find injuries on Joy like chipped teeth to scratches, lacerations, bruises all over her.

[Ash]

Get her out.

[Elena]

One horrific thing was that Joy's back, she said, was raw because she would be strapped to a rubber sheet and her back was raw from urine burns. Oh, they would just leave her there to lay in it.

[Ash]

How do you do that to anybody, let alone an 8 year old?

[Elena]

And she, the thing is, her parents couldn't get her out of there because sometimes once you would institutionalize someone, they like wouldn't give them back to you.

[Ash]

What?

[Elena]

Yeah. And also, like, they still couldn't do the 24 hour care. She died there as a, as a teenager of aspiration, meaning she was fed improperly, lying down and choked to death.

[Ash]

That's horrific.

[Elena]

Yeah. Betty, the mother wrote in an affidavit, dogwood the cottage where Joy lived was a veritable snake pit. It I once witnessed a nurse open the cottage door only to find 80 half clad screaming women come running to the door. The nurse quickly closed it, say Nicholas. He just said Nicholas again. That's weird.

[Ash]

No, that's crazy. That was like two, three weeks ago.

[Elena]

That was weird. That's really weird.

[Ash]

So they, she just shut the door.

[Elena]

On like they all came running towards the door to try to get out and she just closed the door and walked away like, just like I'm not dealing with that.

[Ash]

Oh my God.

[Elena]

And a mother later said, once committed to Forest Haven, the only way out is to die.

[Ash]

Oh, that's chilling.

[Elena]

In the mid-70s, this is when the families filed a class action lawsuit against the institution for how they were treating their children and family members. And the lawsuit said Forest Haven, intended as a facility for treatment, education and training, subjects residents to physical or sexual abuse, provides virtually no treatment, has no training program, and neglects basic medical care.

[Ash]

To say the least.

[Elena]

The Department of Justice got involved and more court cases came in, but things just got worse for a bit. The lawsuit stated at one point, staff members locked dozens of residents naked except for adult diapers in rooms stripped of furniture other than wooden benches. Like, why you have to be like an actual monster to do that. Like you literally have to find some kind of something out of that.

[Ash]

You do.

[Elena]

Like you really have have to be you. That's not even being like you have to either be entirely detached from humanity, which means you are a monster.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

Or you have to find some kind of enjoyment out of it. Both ends are just the worst kind of person.

[Ash]

Guys. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach when it comes to making a difference in your financial future. The smallest step forward could make a huge difference. And when you open a Chime checking account, you are one step closer to a better financial future. With no maintenance fees, fee, free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit, making progress has really never been easier. And if you ever want access to your pay before payday, you can use my pay to get up to 500 of your pay before payday with no mandatory fees or interest. You can learn [e-mail] morbid I just feel like this is so helpful because think of how often you've had to pay an overdra draft fee. Think of how quickly they add up. Or think about the amount of times you've been in a situation where you're like, oh crap, I have to pay for this really expensive thing. But I haven't gotten paid yet. That's why my pay is so awesome. Getting up to 500 of your pay before payday and with no mandatory fees or interest, that's amazing. And a Chime Checking account helps you make progress with fee free overdraft up to 200. The next deposit is just applied to your balance. Make progress towards a better financial future with Chime. Open your account in 2 [e-mail] morbid chime.com morbid chime feels like progress. Banking services and Debit card provided by the Bank Corp. Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. members FDIC spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Fees apply at out of network ATMs MyPay eligibility requirements apply. Credit limits range 20 to $500 $2 fee applies to get funds instantly. Chime Checking account required. Go to chime.com disclosures for details.

[Elena]

What's something your mom's always wanted to do? Get into painting. Write that novel. Make the perfect croissant. Whatever it is this Mother's Day you can finally help her achieve it with Masterclass. Our parents were our first mentors, but who do they look up to? Maybe, I don't know. Gordon Ramsay? RuPaul? Who knows? Give the gift of learning to the people who taught you so much. With Masterclass. Whether you're showing love to your parents or yourself, nothing compares to the gift that can change your life for the better. When I got a masterclass and took the David Baldacci mystery and thriller writing class, I learned so much. It is fully bettered my writing experience and the classes really make a difference. 88% of members feel that Masterclass has made a really positive impact on their lives. I use this and you should too. I was trying to figure out how to up my like the suspense and tension in my book and I took David Baldacci's mystery and thriller writing class and he gave me little tips that really just upped the antsy and I think made certain chapters just really pop. Our listeners always get great discounts on Masterclass of at least 15% off any annual [e-mail] Morbid see MasterClass's latest deal at least 15% [e-mail] Morbid masterclass.com Morbid now as it went into the 80s, there was way more deaths occurring very rapidly in succession and they were really tragic deaths. They would strap, you know, patients to beds and just leave them to die at Times. Finally, in 1991, the institution shuttered.

[Ash]

Can't believe it was open that long.

[Elena]

Yeah. And it was like, during these, like after the lawsuit in the 70s, it was like they slowly started moving patients into different group homes because that was their solution was like, we gotta shut this place down, but we can't just like, move everyone out at once. Traumatized, because there's over a thousand patients in there.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

So they were doing it slowly. And it's like at the end, there was like 15 residents left in there, and they were just being complete. I mean, that would be perfect under normal circumstances because you shouldn't have that many people.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

But they were being neglected too. Right. Because everything was just like, whatever, let's forget about it.

[Ash]

It.

[Elena]

Now, in the 80s is when the families of those who died funded that, like, big stone memorial marker that I told you about.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And it had 391 names of children's and children and adults who died there.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Elena]

And this area is called the Garden of eternal Rest. Now, if you were to go there now, after getting permission to go there, everything is left behind. I mean, suitcases, toys, clothing, paperwork, medical devices, equipment. Oh, that's so all there photos of people, of kids in the facility. Oh, a ton of shoes, like baby shoes. Oh, kids shoes. Slippers. No, high heels. Like all kinds of shoes. It's very stressful. Again, it is patrolled by guards, apparently. It's all very dense woods around it. You have to do like, hiking through it, and then you just like, come upon it. Like everyone says, it's like all woods. All woods. All woods. And then you, like, come to this point where it just appears like it's like a jump scare.

[Ash]

That's scary. Yeah, that is scary.

[Elena]

Now, of course, with a history like this, it's going to have hauntings.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

I mean. Yeah. I mean, it's be rife with hauntings. It is. There's a. There's crazy. I mean, you're. You go in here, supposedly a lot of people hear screaming and groaning. Like people. Like people say legit people crying and begging for help out of rooms. And when they go. And this place is crazy.

[Ash]

Completely experiment.

[Elena]

What the. That's literally what was happening because of these. They would do medical experiments on these people. And they're all.

[Ash]

And that's why they were screaming.

[Elena]

You can hear that. People hear gurneys being pushed down the wall, like the squeaking of gurneys.

[Ash]

Something about. I literally just got goosebumps from that.

[Elena]

Yep. People. People often hear the. The morg door because the morgue's in the basement, obviously, they hear the morgue door slam. And when they, like, no one else is in there.

[Ash]

Just residual hauntings and they.

[Elena]

One of the things people really talk about is just the intense feeling of dread in that place. People say it's like sadness is something you can touch in there. Like, it is so depressing in this place. Like, sadness has permeated every part of this place.

[Ash]

Not the kind of place I would want to investigate.

[Elena]

It looks scary. I want it now. I want to, like, like, hear from people who have investigated this people.

[Ash]

I want to talk to Sam and Colby.

[Elena]

Yeah. I want to know, like, what the feeling was here. Now, a lot of people report feeling someone with very cold hands grab them or just touch them in the hallways. Which also, like, you always think of, like, doctors having cold hands. Like, that's like, a thing.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

And it just makes me think of, like, doctors and cold hands.

[Ash]

I don't like it.

[Elena]

I don't like that there's a clinical smell, like a antiseptic kind of smell that will sometimes happen.

[Ash]

Like a hospital.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like a very hospital type smell. Or that, like, musty hospital smell. You know, like.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

EVPs from this place go crazy. I mean, it's like, there you look them up. Go ahead, look on YouTube and all that. There's tons of EVPs. Charm City Paranormal is one in particular. They did a really good. I've never. I haven't, like, watched any of the other videos, so I know nothing about them. But I do know this one video I watched was very well put together, and they did, like, a very deep dive on the history and stuff. Stuff which makes me think that they, like, really care about these places they go to.

[Ash]

Yeah, of course.

[Elena]

So they visited this place, and when they were there, they caught, like, crazy EVPs, and they were like, voices when they'd walk through hallways of things. Like, one was, I wanted you to find me, Michael.

[Ash]

Oh.

[Elena]

And one of them was, please take John.

[Ash]

Oh.

[Elena]

Which makes me think of, like, somebody bringing their family member in and saying, like, please take him.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Which, like. Oh, like, I just got full chills from that.

[Ash]

That.

[Elena]

But Nicholas, I don't know what you think, but that. That freaked me out. And it's. I've. I highly recommend looking up those kind of, like, investigations that people have done here.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Look up the Salmon Colby one and look up the Charm City Paranormal one. Those are the ones I. I took a peek at.

[Ash]

Damn.

[Elena]

But, yeah, it's a wild just knowing that there is a makeshift graveyard mass grave on site that they have proven like, it is 100 there. This is not, like, rumor. This isn't one of those things that they're like. They think there's bodies. Nope. They know there's bodies there. They're all listed out. And on the. The marker, they are listed in the order of when they died, and they're listed in the order of where they are buried. How do they know they were able to go through? And I guess they had, like. Some of them have markers, but they're, like, buried in the ground, and they're just like a.

[Ash]

A.

[Elena]

A little marker with, like, a number on it or like an initial or something.

[Ash]

Oh. Said don't leave me.

[Elena]

He said, don't leave me. Oh, yeah. Nicholas.

[Ash]

I was just thinking it's sad that they had to stay there. Like, it's sad that they couldn't. Obviously, there's way too many bodies to.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Exhume. And that's like a whole.

[Elena]

Oh, it's awful. A whole thing. It's awful to think about.

[Ash]

It's just sad that they're stuck there.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like, that's their resting place is this awful nightmare.

[Ash]

And, like, the building where all that stuff happened to them is right there.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

It makes me want to cry.

[Elena]

It is. It's awful.

[Ash]

Very sad.

[Elena]

I know. I'm sorry. It was just. It was one of those that I looked at, and I was like, I have to tell this story because this is a horrific story, and it's one that I'd never heard of.

[Ash]

Thank goodness it closed, that place.

[Elena]

Yeah. It always closed. 1991, it was officially closed.

[Ash]

Open for, like, 70 years.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And it's. It's really sad to think about, like, the people's intention who got together and wanted to make that a great place and, like, had the baseball games and had, you know, let's. Let's teach people how to farm and give back to the community. Like, it started with such pure intentions.

[Elena]

That's the thing. It seemed like they really wanted that place to be, like, a place where people could thrive and get better.

[Ash]

It just shows you when you take away funding from things that matter.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Things get real up.

[Elena]

It's true. Which is so sad.

[Ash]

Oh, I hate that.

[Elena]

Yeah. That is Forest Haven't. Asylum.

[Ash]

Damn. Well, I'm taking us back to Massachusetts.

[Elena]

Cool. Bring us here.

[Ash]

We're going to Lester.

[Elena]

Lester.

[Ash]

Lester. In Lester, Mass, There's a Quaker cemetery that dates all the way back to the 1700s. Whoa. Officially, the cemetery is known as Friend Cemetery. And still to this day, it's actually Run by the local Quaker community who are now called Worcester Friends Meeting.

[Elena]

Worcester.

[Ash]

Worcester. But. But to many it's better known as Spider Gates Cemetery.

[Elena]

I knew I've heard of this one.

[Ash]

Spider Gates Cemetery. And it's said not only to be haunted as, but also to be the eighth gate to hell.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

Ghost to hate. Apparently the other seven are at various locations spread throughout the country. I don't know where they are.

[Elena]

Oh, I want to know where that is.

[Ash]

But this here cemetery is kind of like the final boss.

[Elena]

Oh yeah.

[Ash]

Once you're. Once you get to this one eighth, boom.

[Elena]

Hell, you're on your way.

[Ash]

Yeah. I don't understand.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Why you would want that.

[Elena]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

That's. I mean, yeah.

[Ash]

I mean, maybe like, shit's tough.

[Elena]

You're curious. Yeah.

[Ash]

You know, first things first. The cemetery got its nickname Spider Gates, if you can imagine. From its gates.

[Elena]

From the gates.

[Ash]

Yes. The design that repeats through each panel was actually designed to be the sun rays done in kind of like an art deco style. But people think that they look like spiders more than anything else. And I kind of agree.

[Elena]

If you look up a picture, I think so too.

[Ash]

Unfortunately, though, the original gates aren't actually even there anymore because they got stolen.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

Which is fake as.

[Elena]

Who would steal those?

[Ash]

No, I would. I don't steal things.

[Elena]

But I don't want those.

[Ash]

I don't want those. They're gorge.

[Elena]

They are. But like.

[Ash]

But don't steal.

[Elena]

They're a cemetery gift gate.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Elena]

Our ground.

[Ash]

That's how you know that's up. You don't steal from.

[Elena]

Yeah, you can't do that.

[Ash]

Well, the thing that sucks even more is that when they got replaced, people vandalized them and graffiti them so often that the Lester Historical Society said, okay, fine, you don't get them anymore. And now they're safely storing the gates. They had them removed and I think it was back in 2022.

[Elena]

I was just gonna say it was. It must have been recent.

[Ash]

It was.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But they've been working out a plan on how to properly display the gate gates somewhere else. Most likely.

[Elena]

As they should.

[Ash]

Yeah. So they're working on something like a big project right now that's supposed to be done in spring of this year. And then I think that's their next project is figuring out the gates.

[Elena]

Figuring out those gates.

[Ash]

Just in case you were worried. But anyway, worried when you first walk into the cemetery. This is really sad. There's an oak tree off to the side. And legend has it that a Young boy hanged himself on that tree back in the 40s. And for a while, people said that if you visited the cemetery, you would still see a line of rope hanging from the tree.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

Which is like. But people who have visited recently say they don't see the rope anymore. But people do claim to hear voices in that particular area and see shadows.

[Elena]

Damn. Yeah, that's scary.

[Ash]

Now, in the center, there's a whole section. You're welcome. You said that scary. Nicholas said. You're welcome.

[Elena]

Thanks for grow.

[Ash]

In the center, there's a whole section of land that just never grows grass.

[Elena]

Oh, those are always the scary things. Like what? What the. Up there, Kyle.

[Ash]

Why? Why?

[Elena]

What's going on?

[Ash]

Well, apparently the old Quaker meeting house used to stand on this exact area, which is interesting, but now it's just surrounded by four posts made from stone and, like, a ton of large trees.

[Elena]

Ooh.

[Ash]

Which, like, maybe it has something to do with the trees, like, blocking the sun. I don't know. I think it's pretty fucking scary.

[Elena]

I think that's scary. Plenty of places have trees that are blocking.

[Ash]

It's true.

[Elena]

And they still grow grass.

[Ash]

It's true. This place, not so much. But like I said, people call it the altar, and they say it's a place where some seriously nefarious people have come throughout the years to perform satanic sacrifices and rituals. You know, my personal favorite legend connected to this cemetery is that of Marmaduke Earl, which I'm probably gonna name my future child. Let's go, Mr. Earl, if you're nasty. Was buried all the way back in 1839.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

Legend has it that if you find his grave at midnight on the dot, circle it 10 times, then say aloud, mama Duke, speak to me. And then you press your ear to his tombstone. He will speak to you. Oh, no, I don't know what he said, says. Because every account I. I saw, they said they didn't hear anything. But people have said they have, but they won't say what Marmaduke told them.

[Elena]

I'm not kid. I'm not gonna lie. I. That I want to know what he has to say.

[Ash]

I do as well.

[Elena]

I desperately want to know what he has to say.

[Ash]

Well, you're not alone, girlfriend. Because people do this so often that the area around his grave also has no grass.

[Elena]

Yeah, because it's just, like, trampled down.

[Ash]

Yeah, it's literally trampled down. There's also a river on the property that a lot of people think is the river sticks.

[Elena]

Of course.

[Ash]

Of course.

[Elena]

Of course.

[Ash]

That river Comes from Greek mythology, if you didn't know. And actually it's very interesting.

[Elena]

Oh, I love this like tale.

[Ash]

It's cool. Sticks is not just a river, but a goddess. Get you a girl who could do.

[Elena]

Both could be a river and a goddess.

[Ash]

Hello. She was the daughter of Oceanus and was said to be given one tenth of his water. And that water became a portal to hell. To H. To H. So that river being on this property pretty much lends itself to the fact that people think it's a portal or gate to hell.

[Elena]

Let's go. Resistance.

[Ash]

You did there. Hell yeah. It's metal.

[D]

Lamont Jones world is shattered when his cousin dies in custody just weeks after entering prison. The official report says natural causes, but bruises and missing teeth tell a different story. From Wondery comes Death County, Pennsylvania, chilling true story of corruption and cover ups that begins as one man search for answers, but soon reveals a disturbing pattern. Lamont's cousin's death is just one of many and powerful form forces are working to keep the truth buried. With never before heard interviews and shocking revelations, Death County, Pennsylvania pulls back the curtain on one of America's darkest institutional secrets. This isn't just another true crime story. It's happening right now. Follow Death County PA on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Death County PA early and ad free right now by joining Wondery.

[Leon Nayfak]

Plus.

[Ash]

A lot of people who visit Spider Gate cemetery will leave coins in or near the river to pay. Another figure from Greek mythology, Charon. Who it's like kind of Karen if you're nasty as well.

[Elena]

Hell yeah.

[Ash]

He's the ferryman.

[Elena]

Yeah, I love that tale. I think Greek mythology is cool.

[Ash]

Greek mythology is super cool. We spent a lot of time on it in like seventh grade and I remember just getting like interested as it's fascinating. It is, but. So he's the ferryman who will guide you to hell, but only if you give him a coin. He does not guide for free.

[Elena]

No way.

[Ash]

And if you show up with the intention of heading to hell and you don't have payment, I don't recommend that personally because they say that if you do that to the ferryman, he will you up and you will have to wander around the river, the shore river, the river, the shore of the river, all of it. I'm all up right now for over. For over a hundred years. No, just wandering the shore of the.

[Elena]

River and the river shore, the shore river.

[Ash]

Now.

[Elena]

I mean, I don't blame him because it's like, he provides a service that you cannot provide yourself.

[Ash]

Yeah. And it's not like, don't expect him.

[Elena]

To do it for free.

[Ash]

He can't contact a local lawyer.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So it's like.

[Elena]

Come on.

[Ash]

I just want to say it's a little bit fake that Nicholas was, like, commenting a lot on your story, but not on mine.

[Elena]

I'm telling you, we are. We have. Have a connection.

[Ash]

Yeah. I just wanted you to know that, Nicholas. Okay, I'm feeling a little bit left out. Are you sure you turned it back on?

[Elena]

Nicholas? Do you like me better?

[Ash]

Oh, honey, put him up. Anyways, a woman named April spoke with the Worcester Telegram and Gazette about an experience she had while poking around the cemetery. And she told them, I would definitely say the feel of the cemetery and surrounding area was spookier in the evening compared with midday. Of course, she said, maybe it was because that time it was just my daughter and me alone. Maybe it was the failing left light. Lots of sounds in the woods. Both of us thought we saw another cemetery. Another cemetery area down the path that leads to the river, but we didn't go down there the next day. We did walk the path, and there was no second cemetery, only a path and a river. I later read some lore for Spider Gates that says, you will see a second cemetery once, but never again.

[Elena]

That's cool.

[Ash]

Isn't that rad? And that is something that is reported on a lot. A ton of people say they go. They will see, like, another cemetery in the distance, but it's hard to get to. And then they'll go back to be like, oh, my God. No, I. Like, I'm telling you, I saw that it was, and it's not there.

[Elena]

Oh, that's cool. I wonder what the significance of that is.

[Ash]

I think it's just, like, hellacious.

[Elena]

It's just shenanigans.

[Ash]

Yeah. It's just fun.

[Elena]

Just hellish shenanigans.

[Ash]

It's just like Hades being Hades.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

She also said that the second day they went back, because I think she went back to be like, am I gonna see this again?

[Elena]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ash]

And when they were by the river, she said she swore she heard a woman's voice.

[Elena]

Ooh.

[Ash]

Which is another thing that's reported on a lot. A lot of people say that they hear a woman's voice. And I couldn't find anything to substantiate this. It's really sad, though. People say that a woman was murdered in a cave nearby and dismembered.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

Like, way back when. But again, couldn't find anything on it. Okay, but people do hear a woman screaming a lot.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

When they visit here. Here.

[Elena]

That's scary.

[Ash]

Yeah. And then honorable mention goes to the mysterious rock formations that people will see with runes on them.

[Elena]

That is so Massachusetts. I can't even stand it.

[Ash]

We love a rock.

[Elena]

We love stones Here.

[Ash]

Stones.

[Elena]

Just love rocks.

[Ash]

Do you know that I was literally thinking about putting a stone wall up in my, like, home? Like, in my yard? Yeah.

[Elena]

Stones are our thing.

[Ash]

I like stones. It also affects the idiotic. Did he just say idiotic?

[Elena]

I sure did.

[Ash]

I will not have this. I will not have this.

[Elena]

He said that? Stupid as.

[Ash]

He doesn't like stones. Okay.

[Elena]

He didn't like your idea.

[Ash]

No, he doesn't like stones. Listen, I'm not going to be bullied in my help. Yeah, you're going to need it.

[Elena]

So, Nicholas, I'm on your side.

[Ash]

No, but sto's up. Like, isn't it, like the radon levels or something like that? That. Isn't that why the radon levels are so high in, like, Massachusetts?

[Elena]

Yeah, because we have, like, a lot of stone in the ground.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly. Stones, stones. Honorable mention also goes to the white ooze that visitors have seen emerging from random spots in the earth.

[Elena]

I don't like that in the cemetery. I don't like that.

[Ash]

It's pretty gross.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And of course, the demon creature said to be living in the surrounding forest.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Turn him off. Turn it. Why am I being bullied? Nicholas just called me a failure during years. He literally has.

[Elena]

Why are you being so mean to Ash?

[Ash]

Why are you being mean to me?

[Elena]

Nicholas, don't be mean to Ash. Okay, that won't. That won't work.

[Ash]

It won't endear you to Elena. And I'm also gonna have to, like, revisit this in therapy.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

But anyway, don't make fun of anything when I say this, Nicholas, because this is a listener tale that I found from one of our. Of our good ass precious listeners, Nicholas. So one of our listeners went here and had some crazy experiences.

[Elena]

Oh, girl.

[Ash]

Okay. It says, hey, weirdos, I am so in love with your podcast. My name is D. You can use it. Thanks, D. Hey, D. I'm a true crime enthusiast, and I have to say, out of all the podcasts I've listened to, yours is by far the best.

[Elena]

Oh, thanks.

[Ash]

Thank you.

[Elena]

You're beautiful.

[Ash]

D says, and I'm saying that with my whole chest, ass, teeth, tits, everything.

[Elena]

Thank you.

[Ash]

I'm a fellow and I feel so connected when y' all Talk about spooky references or locations in Mass. However, there is one place I haven't heard you mention yet. Until now. I'm still catching up on the pod, so if you have, please forgive me. You're forgiven. Spider Gates Cemetery was built in the 1700s. Also known as the eighth gate to hell. This place is known to be haunted and has super weird happenings. She shared some spooky facts, but I already told them. So let me get to the story. D says I am a full out spooky all year round. I absolutely love fall. Yes, Halloween and supernatural phenomena.

[Elena]

I love you. D. We love you.

[Ash]

I run into some demons back in my day, but that's a story for another time.

[Elena]

I feel you.

[Ash]

What a casual sentence.

[Elena]

Haven't we all?

[Ash]

So yeah. So here we go. I'm in my single hoe phase because a literal garbage human did me dirty.

[Elena]

Oh, that.

[Ash]

I found nudes of another girl on his Nintendo ds.

[Elena]

Shut the fuck up. You dodged a motherfucking bullet, my friend.

[Ash]

Solid.

[Elena]

That's a. See, Nicholas is like. Yup, yup.

[Ash]

I agree with you, Nicholas. Yes, you read that right? Pix I am getting angry. I am getting angry. Nicholas. You can't make this shit up. He's being so mean. You're friends with a bully. Your poltergeist man's is a bully. Oh, all right. Yes, you read that right.

[Elena]

This is having a bad day.

[Ash]

Maybe. No maybe he meant stop. Like that's crazy. Like she found nudes on a ds. Yes, he read that right. Pixelated pictures of a girl's bare ass on a ds. A grown ass man. So yeah, I was done trying to find love and I hopped on Tinder. What can I say? I was having a moment. That's where I met my dad date. We were supposed to be a hookup, but eventually my hopeless romantic tendencies started to creep up. But I fell for this guy and the voice of that GTA character. Oh, here we go again. I don't know that guy's voice. I'm sorry. At this point, we've been dating for about a month and he knows how much I love spooky. So he suggested we have a date at night in Spider Gate cemetery.

[Elena]

Wow, that's a keeper.

[Ash]

I know.

[Elena]

I hope he was good to you.

[Ash]

Oh, just wait.

[Elena]

Okay?

[Ash]

Y' all are probably thinking you dumb. You just met this guy and you're letting him take you to a cemetery in the woods.

[Elena]

Meanwhile, I'm like, nailed it.

[Ash]

Elena's like, you should gone. Looking back, I realize how dangerous I mean it was. But at the end of the story, it will make it all okay. I promise.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

I didn't know much about Spider Gates, only that it was a haunted cemetery. But of course I agreed to go there as any spooky would. Hell yeah. Keep in mind it's super dark outside. 1:00am oh damn. The only light came from the moon. We arrive at the trail that leads to Spider Gates. I had to use a flashlight on my phone to see where we were stepping. We eventually reached the gates and as soon as I saw them, I got goosebumps. Goosebumps. Goosebumps. My date opens them and gestures for me to walk in. It seems like the moon shined the brightest within the field of tombstones. Then he walked in and shut the gate behind him and told me, you have to make sure the gates are closed when you enter and when you leave so that the spirits don't escape.

[Elena]

Oh, girls, I love that he knew that. Yeah, he's just out here spitting knowledge about this cemetery. He's like, just so you know, he.

[Ash]

Said from one spooky to another.

[Elena]

Yeah, he said contain them.

[Ash]

Yeah. D said, girls. I could feel poop knocking on the back door. I was so scared. We both walked together toward the center of the cemetery where the grass seemed to stop growing. Oh, the altar. It was dead quiet. I could feel the wind blowing, but I didn't hear trees rustling. Even as we walked, I could not hear our footsteps. It was such a strange feeling. We stood in the center and looked up at the moon and stars. Not gonna lie. That was scary as. But also super romantic at the time.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

We stood in a quiet. Please go. What did he say?

[Elena]

Please go.

[Ash]

Please go. He doesn't want them to get hurt.

[Elena]

He's like, leave.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

We stood in the quiet embrace for what seemed like an hour. As I was hugging him, I looked over his shoulder to the tree line and I saw it. A foggy mist lingering among the trees, resembling a human form. Oh, A has a stigmatism, so I didn't want to react right away. I don't. I closed my eyes and opened them again and the mist was gone. I brushed it off, considering I can't read the license plate of a car that's in front of me when I'm sitting in traffic. We let go of each other and started walking around tourists yard to look at the tombstones. My date is now on the other side of the cemetery exploring. And as I bent down to read a name, I felt a hand go across my lower back softly. Oh, I Jumped up, expecting to see my date, but he was still on the other side.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

Literally.

[Elena]

Same goodbye.

[Ash]

A shiver went down my back, through my crack, and around the corner. I had never in my life been touched by a spirit, and it was the the most natural yet unnatural feeling ever. That's when I ran over to my date and told him what happened with the mist and with the touch. He was so amused while I was just myself. So we took one last walk around the tombstones and decided it was time to leave. As we were heading toward the exit, I heard a scream coming from the forest.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

From what sounded like a little girl. I looked at my date with eyes popping out of my head and said, did you hear that? And he looked at me dead in my eyes and chuckled, saying, stop trying to scare me. It's not gonna work.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

She said, I swear on my life, I just heard a girl scream. He got serious and promised me that he didn't hear it, though we both agreed it must have been some kind of spirit. If we had both heard it, I would have called the police. Obviously, because a girl screaming in the woods is cause for concern.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

As we left, I made sure those damn gates were shut. I said a small prayer to the spirit so that the spirits wouldn't stick to me. And we were out. Five years later, my date is now my husband.

[Elena]

Oh, I knew it. I felt that in my bo.

[Ash]

I knew it because I read it, but I just knew it.

[Elena]

Oh, I just knew it.

[Ash]

It was beautiful. I got pregnant on our honeymoon and my due date is December 2022. So this was written like a while ago.

[Elena]

Oh, my goodness.

[Ash]

To this day, I talk about that experience with my husband and he still laughs at how freaked out I got. But it's okay. I get him back with my constant jump scares and by hiding his video game controller. Hope y' all enjoyed my story. I love it. D D Spider Gate Cemetery.

[Elena]

I want to go to Spider Gate Cemetery.

[Ash]

I do too, because to talk to Marmadu girl.

[Elena]

Yeah, I need to.

[Ash]

And I need to hear what he has to say to me.

[Elena]

I do too. I got to know.

[Ash]

And I don't think I'll pay the ferryman because I'm not trying to go to hell.

[Elena]

I'm not trying to go to hell right now.

[Ash]

Right now. She said right now. She just wanted to.

[Elena]

Clarifying.

[Ash]

Iconic. Well, thanks, Nicholas, for joining us. Period. Thanks, Elena's friend. Nicholas.

[Elena]

Nicholas, do you have anything, any last comments that you want to leave everybody with?

[Ash]

Nicholas, do you have anything nice to say? Understand? Do you understand that I'm mad at you?

[Elena]

I do not understand.

[Ash]

Do you have anything else you want to say? No. Okay.

[Elena]

All right. We love you, Nicholas.

[Ash]

Elena loves you.

[Elena]

I love you.

[Ash]

I tolerate you.

[Elena]

Oh, wow.

[Ash]

You speak really mean to me.

[Elena]

Mikey's face was like, who?

[Ash]

I'm. I'm happy that he's here.

[Elena]

It was a. You had a rough day.

[Ash]

I'm tolerant, you know?

[Elena]

It was your first fight, too.

[Ash]

It was. Yeah. You know, went a little deeper.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Anyway, thanks for listening. We hope you keep listening.

[Elena]

And we hope you keep it weird.

[Ash]

But not so weird that you get bullied by a paranormal ghost. Thanks. Love you, Nicholas. Static Stanic.

[Elena]

Stanic.

[Ash]

What does that mean?

[Elena]

Stanic. It's a surname. Nicholas Stanek. Bad. What was bad? Tell me more, Nicholas. What is who's bad or what's bad? Are you done telling us? Okay. All right, Sam. Foreign.

[Ash]

If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[E]

Hey, weirdos. If Ash and Elena's episode on Ken McElroy left you wondering how someone could become so cruel, manipulative, and untouchable, you'll want to hear my psychological breakdown of this case. On my podcast, Killer Psyche, I examined the twisted mindset behind McElroy's reign of terror. How he exploited fear, used charm as a weapon, and turned an entire town into his victims. Understanding what made him tick is exactly the kind of insight I bring on Killer Psyche, where I use my experience profiling criminals for the FBI to uncover what drives people like Ken McElroy to become predators. So if you're curious about the mind behind the mayhem, join me for an inside look at the psychology of a man who got away with everything until he didn't follow Killer Psyche on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.