Loading summary
Ash
Hey, weirdos. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about a place where the darkness never ends. Wondery. It's like stepping into a haunted mansion where the floorboards creak with ad free episodes. And early access to new episodes lurks around every corner. So come join us if you dare. Morbid is available one week early and ad free only on Wondery. You can join Wondery in the Wondery app or in Apple podcasts or Spotify.
Elena
You're listening to a Morbid network podcast. We get support from Amazon Prime. Hey, weirdos, you know what's literally the most amazing thing ever? Amazon Prime. Listen up, because this is gonna blow your minds. With prime, you get faster than lightning delivery on, like, everything. We're talking millions of items. Literally everything you could ever want or need. But wait, there's more. There's more than everything you could want or need. Prime Video lets you binge all those shows we're obsessed with. And Amazon music has the bops for your next dance party. I have been ordering a little bit on prime lately. I had to get some earplugs the other night because my husband was a snorri snore snoring. And I said, please send them to me the very next day. And they did. That was great. Loved that. Whether you're a total bookworm, a gaming fanatic, or you just really like trying new things or sleeping through the night without your husband snoring waking you up, Prime's got your back. Ebooks for days, free in game goodies and everything you need to make your next DIY project from streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com/prime to get more out of whatever you're into from the creator of Think Twice, Michael Jackson. Listen to the new Audible Original Final thoughts Jerry Springer. Once known as the king of trash tv, Springer was the notorious talk show host whose wild daytime program transfixed audiences everywhere. Join Springer's personal and professional life as the ratings soared and the reviews soured. Here, revealing interviews about the choices we make and the regrets we may have. Listen to the new trashy and true Audible Original Original Final thoughts Jerry Springer by going to audible.com Springer hey, weirdos.
Ash
I'm Ash. And I'm Elena.
Elena
And this is morbid.
Ash
This is morbid. And we're, we're not going to get right into it, but I just wanted to say we're talking about a case today that is rough.
Elena
Oh, so we should do some, some.
Ash
Bitty banter at the beginning. Yeah, we should prep Everybody.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Ahead of time.
Elena
Well, let's see. We all in this office have brand new tattoos.
Ash
We do. We went to Black Veil in Salem. Yeah, of course.
Elena
Saw Matt and Ryan. Or besties. If you ever need a tattoo, you need to go to Black Veil.
Ash
You do? Yes. For many reasons.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
For the company, for the ambiance. The ambiance. The tattoos, the vibes, the vibies. You gotta do it all. Yeah, it's true.
Elena
Do it.
Ash
So that was delightful.
Elena
That was super fun. It was a nice little, like, treat yourself day.
Ash
Yeah, it was.
Elena
What else is going on?
Ash
I'm trying to think. What's. What's the news? What's the hot goss. What's the 411?
Elena
The 411s that I. Oh.
Ash
What? Mikey just reminded me.
Elena
What?
Ash
Conclave.
Elena
Oh, Conclave.
Ash
Watch. Came to a crashing halt very quickly.
Elena
Yeah. It started just as quick as it ended.
Ash
Yeah. I was watching live, though. You were. So I had it up on my computer because I was ready.
Elena
She screamed, oh, new post.
Ash
Oh, it's happening.
Elena
I said, oh.
Ash
Soon as that white smoke came out, I said, oh, my God, we got an American. We got. Which I'm shocked.
Elena
That's the first time ever, right?
Ash
First time ever. And, like, especially right now, I'm like, wow. Shocking. I know that we managed to pull that off.
Elena
And we can say Pope Leor Par.
Ash
He seems pretty cool as far as Popes go.
Elena
Yeah. I think he's, like, progressive and shit.
Ash
Yeah. Very outspoken.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
He picked a cool name. We've had a lot of Francis. We've had a lot of John Paul's and all that shenanigans. So, you know, let's. Nice. See a Leo in there.
Elena
Yeah. Let's fucking go.
Ash
John said he's. Because John looked him up because I've been obsessing over Conclave. So he was like, I should probably know this. He looked him up, and apparently he's from Villanova, which meant nothing to me until John said that a lot of the Knicks players are from Villanova. And so he was like, oh, Villanova's having a moment. And I said, you get Pope or you get Finals. Yeah. You do not get both.
Elena
No, you fucking don't.
Ash
So, Nyx, listen to me right now. You chose Pope.
Elena
You got Pope.
Ash
Okay? So you. You don't get Pope. You don't get the NBA Finals. So.
Elena
I know.
Ash
Honestly, I think that's a good thing. John thought it was Villanova having a moment, and that's bad. I say you get Pope or you get Finals.
Elena
Yeah. That's what I feel. And I think the. The Celtics, that we just have to hope and pray that they're gonna make history for, you know, another year. Yeah, there's. This is all on purpose. It's not at all. But I. I know I just became a fan, so let me have this.
Ash
But, yeah, I'm sitting here in my.
Elena
Brand new Celtic sweatshirt.
Ash
You are we. Really.
Elena
Because you know what? I'm a fan. No matter how it's going, it's true.
Ash
But as you should.
Elena
I hope it upticks. I also hope we are on the precipice of game three.
Ash
We'll let you know, guys.
Elena
I know, but of course. Happy Mother's Day, everybody. Mother's Day weekend. We have to, like, go do stuff. There's a Celtics game.
Ash
I'm like, gosh darn it, I'm going.
Elena
To be like that. That sports bra at the table, my phone.
Ash
Watching it on your phone. I know, but yeah, so that's cool that. I mean, Pope Watch 2025 ended as quickly as it began, but it was still fun watching them close the doors on the Sistine Chapel. I was like, this is so metal. They're sealing them in there and they're all sitting down. It looked very, like, cinematic.
Elena
We need more traditions. We don't have any, like, cool traditions.
Ash
Yeah, well, and I'm, you know, I don't. Again, like, the Pope really doesn't affect my day to day life in any way, shape, or form. I was interested.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Because it is nice to see a more progressive mouthpiece, peace for Jesus talking. I think that's important because we don't need somebody spewing hate and to people who will take what he says very seriously because he is seen as the word of. Of the Lord. He's young, though. He's 69. So this one might be hanging around for a while.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
So we might. We might have a Leo dynasty happening.
Elena
Jesus's word will be pretty, pretty lit for the next while.
Ash
Let's hope so. You know, that's. That's an interesting, Interesting little update.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
I thought we were gonna have conclave watch for a little while. Thought I was gonna get to talk.
Elena
About it for a little longer, but.
Ash
I did find out there was a weird conclave that happened a while ago that took, like, three years, though. And I think they ended up taking the bill, like, the roof off the building that they were in and everything. It was a long time ago.
Elena
Wait, why'd they take the roof off the building?
Ash
To force them to make a Decision. They also rationed their food to bread and water. Like, stopped feeding them actual food.
Elena
That's dark.
Ash
Well, they were like, three years. Pick a Pope. Oh, yeah. Let's do this. So maybe. Maybe we'll cover that because that seems like a very interesting little.
Elena
I know you brought that up the other day, and I. That sounds interesting.
Ash
It's a weird one.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
But, yeah, that was. That was an interesting update that happened yesterday.
Elena
Yeah, I think that's, like, all the news. Celtics, Pope tattoos.
Ash
Yeah. Other than that, we're gonna get into a really shitty person. Okay, now, I think we. We have briefly touched upon this man. I believe in a crime countdown.
Elena
Oh, okay.
Ash
Because when I was reading about him, I was like, why do I know this? And then I was like, oh, that's.
Elena
Always the worst feeling. Because then you're like, have I done this?
Ash
And I'm like, we didn't cover this in full, but yeah, it's the life and death of lobster boy Grady Styles.
Elena
All right. It's not ringing a bell in my crime countdown. Part of my brain.
Ash
This is one of those things that.
Elena
He.
Ash
So obviously, the life and death. He dies. He's murdered. Murder is never okay. But you are going to hear me say, he's a bag of a human being.
Elena
Oh, is this like a Ken. Ken McElroy deal?
Ash
He's an abusive, awful person to the. To his daughters and to his wife. So obviously no one deserves to be killed. But I'm saying, like, you're gonna hear me talk some shit about him because he deserves it.
Elena
Yeah. I mean, you gotta be real no matter what.
Ash
Yeah. I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna let you know. So who is Grady Stiles?
Elena
Tell me.
Ash
Grady Franklin Stiles Jr. Not Franklin. Franklin. I know. Was born June 26, the 1937. What does that make him?
Elena
So I think at that point, he's a cancer.
Ash
He's a cancer. Okay.
Elena
I don't know a lot about cancer men. I do.
Ash
He fits.
Elena
Oh, yeah.
Ash
He fits.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
The third child of Edna and Grady Stiles Senior, Grady Styles Senior was a carnival worker and performer. He was billed as one of life's human oddities.
Elena
Oh, that's terrible to say.
Ash
There's a lot of this kind of like.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Carnivals were wild talk, quote unquote, freaks and such. Grady Senior was born with electrodactyly, which is a physical deformity where one or more fingers on the hands or toes on the feet are missing.
Elena
Oh, okay.
Ash
This condition, though, gave Grady Senior. And it often gives people who are dealing with it. The appearance of having claw like hands.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
So kind of like those of a lobster. This led to his being billed on the sideshow circuit as the lobster man. Now, despite being a very rare condition, it affects actually roughly one in every 100,000 babies born.
Elena
Wow.
Ash
Electrodactyly ran in the Stiles family as far back as the 1840s.
Elena
That's crazy.
Ash
In some cases, it'll occur in both the hands and feet, but in Grady Stiles case, it only occurred in his hands, the senior. So when the couple's third child, Grady Jr. Was born, no one was really surprised to discover that this child had inherited the condition which was present in Grady Stiles Jr. S hands and feet. Oh.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Now, according to author Fred. Fred Rosen, the Stiles family had always not really listened to the advice of doctors who warned against having children because of the likelihood of them inheriting this condition. Because especially when it's of the hands and feet, it leads to a very difficult life, you know?
Elena
Right.
Ash
And according to Rosen, their attitude was, quote, hell, if a child was born a freak, it was the child's problem. The child's. And Gods.
Elena
Oh, okay. That's one way to look at it.
Ash
Which is like, damn, what an outlook.
Elena
That's. That's your problem, little baby.
Ash
Yeah. A child that didn't ask to be brought into this world. Like, that's fucked up in a way I can't describe.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
In fact, Grady Jr. Sister Sarah had also inherited their father's condition. But it only affected one arm and one leg. Years into her adulthood, actually, Sarah had her non functional leg amputated and replaced with an artificial limb.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Unlike his sister, Grady's affliction was far worse than even their father's. Oh. And prevented him from being able to walk. He was. He had to rely on a wheelchair for mobility.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Now, at the time of his birth, the Stiles family was living in relative poverty in Pittsburgh's north side. They were barely getting by on the wages they were getting from the carnival circuit. And for Grady, early life was a challenge, to say the very least. Again, you feel really bad for young Grady. Yeah.
Elena
He was given a lot to deal.
Ash
With, a lot to deal with. Right out the gate. Yeah. With his father constantly on the road with the sideshow, there was no one around to normalize his condition. Really.
Elena
Oh.
Ash
Which was a problem. And so he was treated as a spectacle whenever his mother took him out of the apartment, which is. That must be very difficult.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Fortunately, just a few years after he was born, they did relocate to Gibsonton, which is a small town in central Florida. And this is very interesting. In the decades that had preceded them moving there, this had become a popular place to move for retired circus workers.
Elena
Oh.
Ash
And those who were seeking refuge during the off season of the circus and the carnival. So due to the large number of performers in town, they had also. The local administration had also established very, like, unusual zoning laws, and this allowed the residents to keep elephants, tigers, and other large exotic animals on their property.
Elena
Damn.
Ash
Which would solve the problems also of boarding the circus animals.
Elena
Right.
Ash
But for young Grady, this kind of solved the problem of him feeling like an outcast because now he's hanging out with a bunch of circus workers and sideshow workers and the kids. The sideshow workers and a bunch of exotic animals.
Elena
Yeah, he fits in.
Ash
He's not weird. Like, he's just one of them. But it didn't do anything to solve their financial issues. That's a bummer. As a result, the Stiles children were all expected to just kind of forego traditional schooling and just pitch in at the circus to help support the family as the only able, fully able bodied child. Margaret, the oldest, worked the ticket booth until she actually ended up passing away from a brain aneurysm in 1951 at the age of 18.
Elena
Oh, wow. This family had so much to deal with.
Ash
Yeah. For Grady Jr, his. He was just gonna live a life of performing. That was what he was going to do, just as his father had. From one small town to another, the family spent the majority of their lives traveling with the carnival. And they were billed as the Lobster Family. Oh, yeah. Throughout the first half of the 20th century, circuses like Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey were so popular around the country, particularly during the Depression and war years, you know, when a family could expect a day's worth of entertainment for a very small fee. And just to take them away from all the reality going on. Exactly. Reality. For the carnival workers and performers, the pay might not have been great, but it was consistent. And the work offered, you know, a stable and supportive environment that a lot of them had not experienced outside of the circus. They kind of treated like shit. In fact, Fred Rosen said, in those days, the carnival was indeed a family. In those days, people joined up for the duration. They stayed with the same carnival through thick and thin. They were there for each other. The fat man, the bearded lady, the Rustabouts and the strippers became like a kind of, you know, it's like American Horror Story freak show.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
How they become Like a family, you know, in the present, it would obviously be very illegal for parents to just take their kids out of school and be like, you're working at the circus for good reason. Like. But under the circumstances and given his experiences in a, you know, quote unquote, ordinary community, Grady Jr. Was honestly happier with the sideshow than he had been just in Pittsburgh going, well, that's good. Not only was his family be able to just be together all the time, but he also loved performing, and he liked being in the spotlight. Like, it.
Elena
He was okay.
Ash
Seemed to feed him, like, he really liked it. And when they weren't on the road, they retired to Gibsonton, and there he was treated as just any other child in town. So it was. He wasn't dealing with that bullshit, you know, and he was able to live a relatively normal childhood among other children of circus workers.
Elena
Yes. Like, they're normal.
Ash
I was gonna say a different kind of normal. What they saw is that despite the acceptance he found in Gibsonton and his ability to, you know, help the family by working at the sideshow circuit, Grady Stiles life was definitely one of hardship. It's not like he was just coasting through. He had a lot to deal with, and it wasn't long before this kind of hardship that was just kind of hardwired inside of him was leading to a lot of bitterness, because, again, it's not like he was treated nicely by everyone he came in contact with. You know what I mean? Like, he.
Elena
It was people who understood his struggles.
Ash
Yeah. And some people, I'm sure the people that came in to the circus sometimes would probably dehumanize him and like, that. I'm sure that's gonna live in your nervous system at some point.
Elena
Yeah, definitely.
Ash
So he was often frustrated, often bitter, but he was very determined to prove himself, to be as capable as anybody else.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
He Be. So one thing he could do, which he did, like, he very much fixated on, was building up his strength in his early teens, and he developed incredible upper body strength.
Elena
Really?
Ash
Yeah. And that he used this kind of. To compensate for his lack of, you know, dexterity, lack of being able to really move around like he felt everybody else could. At the same time, he adapted to his condition really well and had learned to use his hands in, like, a claw, like, fashion, so he could hold objects, he could write, he could do other, like, very complex tasks with his hands.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Which when you look at it, you're like, wow, at this point, you're like, good for you, man. Like, you really, like, Took lemons and you made lemonade out of them, like, good for you. Now, by the early 1950s, Grady Senior, his father, had decided it was going to be much more lucrative for the family to go into business for themselves and they struck out on their own. Now, around this time, 17 year old Grady Jr. Married his first wife, Deborah Brady. That was in a small ceremony in Tampa, Florida. Now, unfortunately, that was only gonna last about a year before they divorced. And Grady ended up just really focusing on the business for a little while. He's a horrible husband, just to put that out there. It lasted a year. I not surprised by that. I don't know how, based on what we find out later, marriage to him was not a fun time. Now, Grady didn't have to wait long to find love again, though. In the spring of 1959, during a stop in Trenton, New Jersey, Grady met Mary Teresa Herzog, who went by Teresa.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
One of the carnival's newest ticket booth workers. And instantly they were in love. Now, by the time she'd Met Grady Stiles, 21 year old, Theresa's experiences with men had been universally bad.
Elena
Oh.
Ash
So when she was. This is awful. When she was six years old, Teresa's mother divorced Teresa's father and remarried a monster named Frank Tyler, who would go on to sexually abuse her for years.
Elena
Oh, that's terrible.
Ash
Frank Tyler, piece of.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Given the terrible conditions of her home life, Teresa would like lose herself in carnivals. You know, it was just like one of those things, like escaping reality. Yeah, it really was. It was, it reminded me of like a movie we just watched for Scream, where the devil roams. One of the characters in that talks about how his father was abusive when he was younger and he would escape to the circus.
Elena
Yep.
Ash
Just to get out of that reality.
Elena
Right.
Ash
Which is just so sad. Yeah, it is sad, Teresa. So she found refuge in these carnivals and circuses that would travel and they would come to her small Vermont town in the spring and summer months.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
She later said, the carnival fascinated me. I guess it fascinated most young people. I thought the lights and the excitement were just great.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Now, in a bid to get closer to the carnival and really like just envelop herself in it, she began working as a ticket taker during the summer. Then when she turned 18, she joined up with the circus on a full time basis and finally got away from her stepfather for good.
Elena
Good, that guy.
Ash
Yeah. Before long, she met and fell in love with one of the Rustabouts, Jerry Plummer. Not Grady Styles.
Elena
Not Grady.
Ash
And soon they were mar.
Elena
This show is sponsored by Better Help. If you listen to this show, you know that men's mental health throughout history has been a little stigmatized, not been prioritized. It is okay to struggle. Real strength, though, comes from opening up about what you're carrying and doing something about it so that you can be at your best for yourself and everybody else in your life. If you're a man and you're feeling the weight of the world, talk to someone. A friend, a loved one, a therapist. I have benefited greatly from therapy. I'm not a man, but I still have benefited greatly from therapy. And I think everybody can. With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 billion people globally. And it works with an App store rating of 4, 9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews. It's convenient too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life, plus switch therapists at any time. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first first month at betterhelp.commorbid that's BetterHelp H E-L-P.commorbid Every day I make countless decisions, but one of the easiest and the most important is securing my home with Simplisafe. The moment I arm my system, I know my family and everything I've worked for are protected. Whether I'm stepping out for the day or settling in for the night, that small action delivers something priceless. Peace of mind. I can focus on what matters, rest easier, and go about my day knowing that Simplisafe has my back in a crisis. And I want you to have that confidence too. Because it's not just the mundane day to days we all go on vacation. Sometimes you're away from your home for like a full week. And what I love about Simplisafe is that you can be at home with the click of a button. I click those buttons, bring up my cameras and I know exactly what is going on on my property and I feel safe while I'm away because of the active guard outdoor protection with Simplisafe, millions of Americans enjoy the new standard in home security and greater peace of mind every time they arm their system. Visit simplisafe.commorbid to claim 50 off a new system with a professional mon plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com morbid. There's no safe like Simplisafe.
Ash
Now, while things started out fine in the relationship, Teresa soon found herself in a relationship with yet another abusive man. For more than a year, she suffered verbal, physical, and emotional abuse at her piece of shit husband's hands. She was beaten with his fists. She was pushed down the stairs while she was pregnant with their child. And at one point, he even threw a pot of scalding coffee at her.
Elena
What a fucking monster.
Ash
And finally, he just. Because, you know, he was a piece of shit in every way. He just grew tired of the relationship, and he didn't really want to be a father. So Jerry Plummer took off, leaving Teresa to raise their daughter Deborah on her own.
Elena
He's probably much better off.
Ash
And she was earning very little money at the circus, so obviously it was hard. But to her credit, she was very resourceful, very determined. So she found a lawyer and scraped together enough money to file for divorce. And Jerry didn't contest it.
Elena
Good.
Ash
When Grady first saw Teresa in the ticket booth, he was immediately struck by her beauty, her charm. He just was into it. The problem was, at the time, Grady and his father were a top draw for the circus. And there's like, a hierarchy.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
And he would have been looked down upon for dating one of the ticket takers.
Elena
Oh, okay.
Ash
Because that's like, the job at the bottom of the hierarchy. Isn't that interesting?
Elena
Yeah, that is interesting.
Ash
So he. He wasn't. He wasn't gonna move on, though. He was like, I'm not moving on and finding somebody else. Like, I like this girl.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
So he began talking Teresa up to one of the owners, Stan Wright, encouraging him to consider her for a job as a Bali girl, which is apparently a term for one of the singing or dancing girls in the show. Because he was like, she's beautiful. Like, why not bring her up there?
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
As a ticket taker, dating a performer was off limits. But as a Bali girl, she would be another performer in the show, and their relationship would be very acceptable. Okay. So, fortunately for everyone, Wright did see something he liked in Teresa and was like, you know what? You're right.
Elena
Well, that's good. Hopefully she made some more money.
Ash
Yeah. And that's the thing. He gave her a chance as a performer. So for Teresa, it was a huge step up. She got some more money and she. So she was able to better provide for Deborah, which Teresa seems like. I feel really bad for Teresa because she seems like she's had this awful life. She's been really taken advantage of and treated horribly by the men in her life, but she just wants to be. Like, she wants to take care of her kids.
Elena
Yeah. She wants.
Ash
Like, that really does seem like there's a lot of. Like, I really just want to do right by my kids. And she wasn't done right for.
Elena
Right.
Ash
So it's really hard to break that.
Elena
Cycle, especially back then when you had enough, like, no resources, really, to count on as far as therapy and mental health.
Ash
Like, she's not being taught how to break this cycle or that it's important at all. You can just tell that Teresa does have something inside of her that just desperately wants to break that cycle.
Elena
That's who she is.
Ash
She doesn't make. She makes some poor choices later. But I do believe that, like, deep down in there, she just really wanted to do right by her kids.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
But this. So this move up also moved her closer to the action at the center of the show and more importantly, to her closer to Grady.
Elena
Cause she liked him, too.
Ash
She liked him, too. Within a few months, she had moved up from a dancing girl to become a sort of jack of all trades within the performances. One of her more prominent roles was Blade Box Girl, which was a kind of assistant to the magic act, where she would step into the box and appear to be stabbed a million times with swords, but come out and be like, I'm fine.
Elena
Oh, my God, that must have been real scary.
Ash
Yeah. So she was the lovely assistant, essentially, at the same time as she was so excited to be on stage, she was so excited that Grady Stiles had chosen her as the object of his affection. Having only ever known very negative and abusive attention from the men in her life. Being with Grady, she said, was unlike anything she'd ever experienced. He was showering her with gifts, with praise, attention, making her feel wanted and adored.
Elena
Ooh.
Ash
She said Grady was such a charming man. Everyone enjoyed being in his company. Yeah. Now, not long after beginning their relationship, they started living together and with Grady. Grady was now stepping in as a father to Deborah, and it seemed like everything was going great. In the off season, they returned to Gibsonton, where Teresa found work in a Tampa shrimp factory during the off season. And within a few years, their first child, Margaret, was born. Unfortunately, less than a month after Margaret was born, she died from pneumonia.
Elena
Oh, that's terrible.
Ash
The situation repeated itself with their next child, David, who also died a month. A month after his birth from pneumonia. And it was attributed to the poor living Conditions of life in a traveling circus. Wow. Now, the health problems continued for the Stiles family, because a few months later, Grady Stiles senior was struggling with poor health too. Finally, he decided to retire from traveling altogether. Now, unable to afford the cost of living in Florida, Grady senior moved back to Pittsburgh and found a small apartment there. So now Grady Jr. Is worried about his parents. Pittsburgh because they're in poor health.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
And he's in Florida. So he started renting an apartment in the city so he could check on them and be around them. The apartment was a huge financial strain on them, obviously, because it's just another expense. So to help support them in the off season, Grady Jr. Began performing in a one man show to make extra money when they weren't on the road. The work allowed him to support himself and his wife. But this additional work, plus the stress of traveling back and forth to Pittsburgh and the unexpected, tragic deaths of two.
Elena
Children, like, that's a lot on your plate.
Ash
It brought out a meanness in Grady that Teresa said she had never seen even the slightest hint of before.
Elena
Oh, no.
Ash
So this came. She was like, this came out of nowhere.
Elena
He didn't deal well with stress and grief.
Ash
A lot of people say that the death of a child will change. You can change a relationship, and it really depends on one, the strength of the relationship to begin with. And, you know, things that are lying dormant in the people that are experiencing it. So obviously something was lying dormant in Grady styles that. That's just brought it right out, brought it all out. So the bitterness, this frustration, the. The rage it all. And what he saw as his constant misfortune, it led him to start drinking heavily, which only exacerbated the anger. And before long, he was directing it all at Theresa. Oh, no. According to Fred Rosen, Grady was a good provider. However, when he was drinking, Grady started beating Teresa, taking care to keep his blows to her body so no one would see the bruises.
Elena
Wow. And to me, that is diabolical. That is diabolical because you know what you're doing is wrong. And you're not even just to have the wherewithal to think like that.
Ash
Clearly. Yeah, I shouldn't do it somewhere that someone can see. Yeah, that's.
Elena
That's dark.
Ash
In 1963, Teresa gave birth for a third time. And this time, the baby would not only survive, but also managed to not inherit Grady's condition.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
The healthy birth of their daughter Donna was a relief to Teresa, who obviously already experienced two traumatic births and traumatic deaths. But the girl's health like, seemingly quote, unquote, normal mobility seemed to fuel Grady's anger. Oh. Following Donna's birth, Grady began to drink even more than he had. He was staying out late with other carnies and sometimes not coming home for days. Fred Rosen said when he did come home, he would generally make it to the living room and pass out on the floor. Sometimes he'd throw up first and sleep in his own vomit.
Elena
Oh, fuck.
Ash
In the morning, Deborah and Donna would get up and they would have to step over Grady to get out of the trailer. So the children would have to just step over him in his own vomit to get out of their house.
Elena
That's horrific.
Ash
Now, looking back on her childhood, Donna reflected on her childhood saying, there was nothing really good I can recall.
Elena
Yeah. I mean, when you're stepping over your dad in his own vomit, his. To leave your home.
Ash
That's. She said he always drank, continually drank. I really started noticing it at about seven, because he would yell at us if he was drinking at home.
Elena
That's so sad.
Ash
Seven years old.
Elena
To realize that at seven years old is fucked.
Ash
For a time, the girls could rely on school to get away from this whole abuse. But even that was unreliable because Grady would routinely pull them out of school three or four months before the end of the year to help the traveling show.
Elena
It's like, how are they even moving on at school?
Ash
Exactly. In 1969, Teresa gave birth again, this time to a daughter they named Catherine, who was born with the condition.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
The birth of their second daughter should have been a joyous occasion for any couple. But it didn't do anything to stop Grady's drinking or lessen the violence in the household. Things finally came to a head one night in the mid-1970s when Grady and Teresa got into a really bad argument after the show. Donna said that night after closing, he called mom out in the show. They were arguing. She came back into the trailer crying. And then he came back in the trailer, pulled the door open, let it slam real hard, and he took $20 and he threw it at her. After throwing the money at her, he screamed, take your fucking kids and get out of my face.
Elena
Oh, her kids.
Ash
Her kids.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Yeah. Literally fuck this guy.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Like, he's awful because he does this, and then what he does later, I'm like, go fuck yourself.
Elena
And in front of his kids.
Ash
Oh, he does awful shit. To the girl's surprise. And this is where you. You really see moments of Teresa just making, like, very smart choices for her kids. And then obviously, you know, she's A very abused woman. Yeah, Very abused, very traumatized. So she obviously makes some questionable ones later.
Elena
Right.
Ash
But this is one that really shocked the girls as well, because he's a scary guy. So they were surprised because their mother did not say, like, oh, he's just drunkenly ranting, like, just leave him alone. Which often would happen. Instead, she just looked at them and she said, pack a bag and we're leaving. And she packed her own suitcase and they all left. And they got a room at a motel across the street. Once they were there, she called her friend Harry, Glenn Newman, who was part of the circus as well. He was known. And this is what he was known by back then. He was known as midget man.
Elena
Oh, man.
Ash
Due to his small stature. Gotcha. Things were different then.
Elena
Things were real.
Ash
Things were bad then. Yeah. After leaving Grady that night, Glenn became a lifesaver for Teresa. He allowed them all, the girls and her to live in a small camper until they all on his property until they all moved to Ohio to live with Glen's mother.
Elena
Wow.
Ash
For several months, the children finally got to enjoy stability and normalcy of children their age. Like, things were happy.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Without the chaos of this traveling show or, you know, a rageful, abusive, like, alcoholic father. Unfortunately, that was short lived because about four months, five months after leaving Grady, Teresa received a summons and traveled to a Pennsylvania courthouse with the girls. Unbeknownst to her, after she left Grady, he filed for divorce and petitioned the court for custody of the children.
Elena
Even though he literally told her to leave with her children.
Ash
Oh, there's.
Elena
Oh, they're yours now.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Because now she had been unaware of the divorce.
Elena
Right.
Ash
Did it without her knowing.
Elena
Right.
Ash
And he didn't. She didn't know that he had filed for custody.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
So she didn't contest anything because she didn't know it had happened.
Elena
Right.
Ash
And the court awarded. Awarded full custody of the children.
Elena
Are you kidding me?
Ash
Which is so up.
Elena
Yeah, it is.
Ash
Grady took the girls back to Florida with him, which just breaks my heart because I truly believe if these girls have been allowed to live with Teresa and Glenn, they would have had a totally different childhood.
Elena
Absolutely.
Ash
They could have started healing from things.
Elena
They were young enough to hopefully forget.
Ash
Some things they get even more traumatized.
Elena
Oh, no.
Ash
So Grady takes the girls back to Florida with him, but only long enough to sell the house they lived in and get rid of all his wife's belongings.
Elena
Oh, that's normal.
Ash
Kathy later said Catherine said he gave all of mom's whatnots, lamps and all of her stuff to his sister. He would not let her come back to get her clothes, which included a fur coat and some evening dresses. He gave away all of her clothes.
Elena
That's so fucked up.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
That's abusive in its own way.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
You know.
Ash
Oh, he's just an asshole. With Teresa out of the picture, Grady began seeing a woman named Barbara, who quickly moved herself and her daughter in with the Stiles family full time. Catherine said later she wanted to put herself in my mom's place. She wanted to be our mother. She tried to force herself onto us, but she wasn't trying to be like a mother. She was. Because Theresa was known by her children, they all agree she was a loving, caring, kind mother.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Like flat.
Elena
Like a mama.
Ash
She was a mama. Barbara only seemed interested in playing the role to the extent that it got her closer to Grady. So she's that stepmother.
Elena
She's Meredith blaking it.
Ash
Yeah. Rather than actually do any parenting, most of the responsibility for raising the children, including Barbara's daughter Susie, fell to Donna, since Deborah had decided to move out of the house after the divorce.
Elena
Oh.
Ash
Now. After moving the family back to Pittsburgh to be near his parents, Grady's drunken, violent behavior continued without interruption, including the period where Barbara was pregnant with their child. In 1976, Barbara gave birth to a boy, the couple named Grady iii, who was born with the same condition as his father and his half sister at this point.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
In the meantime, Teresa kept living with Glenn Newman, who turned out to be a pretty good husband and a good provider. In 1974, she gave birth to a boy, Harry Glenn Jr. Known as Glenny everybody. They were obviously very happy to have a new little baby boy, but she had a profound sense of pain and loss of having lost her children to give Grady because he was refusing to let her see them. Wow. So she was trying her everything she could to see them or have contact with them, and he wouldn't let them.
Elena
And it's like, why did he get full custody? I mean, very different time again. But.
Ash
Yeah. Despite everything, though, Teresa was still hopeful that one day she was going to be able to have a relationship with her daughters again. So she convinced Glenn to move to Pittsburgh. Wow. And Glenn was like, let's go.
Elena
Glenn seems like the best guy I know.
Ash
He. So they moved to Pittsburgh to be closer to the girls so she could start really trying to get them back.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Now, this pissed Grady off in a massive way. In the winter of 1976, the full extent of Grady's cruelty became apparent. When after some conversation, he agreed to let Teresa take the girls to visit her mother in Vermont for Christmas.
Elena
Oh, this is gonna ruin me.
Ash
But rather than have Glenn and Teresa just pick them up, Grady insisted they meet him at a bar near his apartment, where he proceeded to get violently drunk. After downing five or six drinks, they all went back to the apartment to get the girls, only to discover that none of the girls were there. The place was empty. Sitting on the couch, Grady reached beneath him and pulled out a revolver.
Elena
Oh God.
Ash
Pointing it at Glenn and Teresa. Moments later, Paul Fishbaugh, who was the sideshows known as the Fat man, emerged from another room holding a shotgun.
Elena
Holy shit.
Ash
With Paul Fishbaugh now guarding Glen, who remember, has very small stature, right? So this giant man is holding this smaller man so he can't protect his wife. So he can't protect his wife with a shotgun. Grady then started beating Teresa viciously in front of her husband. Her helpless husband. Baby Glen was also there and was screaming the entire time.
Elena
Oh my God.
Ash
Yeah. When he'd finally tired of hitting Teresa, he let them leave before. But not before telling them, don't bother me anymore. Next time I'm going to kill you, Glenn, and your son. Wow. That was because she had agreed to to let her daughters go for Christmas.
Elena
Why don't you just say no?
Ash
Yeah, because he's a cruel son of a bitch.
Elena
He is.
Ash
His cruelty continued in the years that followed. And even moving out of the apartment wasn't enough to escape it. In April 1978, when Donna was 15 years old, her cousin introduced her to 18 year old Jack Lane. And the two hit it off immediately, knowing her father would do anything he could to drive Jack away. Because why would you allow your daughters to have happiness? The couple frequently met in secret, often spending time together in a park a few blocks away from the apartment. One evening in September, after hearing countless stories of Grady's abuse, Jack was like, I can't let you go back there.
Elena
Like I don't.
Ash
I can't just keep sending you back to this place and hearing what he does to you. So Jack took Donna to his sister's apartment, trying to give her some space to be safe, right? When she called home a few days later, Grady fucking lost it. Screaming at her, demanding she return home immediately. And he told her, I got detectives looking for you, they'll find you. And when I find that boy that's with you, I'm gonna kill him.
Elena
Oh no.
Ash
Now for. And she's telling him, like, he's a good guy. He just wants to keep, like, take.
Elena
Care of me because you.
Ash
Yeah. For years, Donna had listened to her father's drunken rants and threats of violence against her mother and her siblings. And she'd suffer more. She'd suffered more than the others when it came to physical abuse. But when it came to threats of killing Jack, Donna was like, I didn't believe that he was going to go through with it.
Elena
Oh, no.
Ash
Like, I understood that he, like, beat the out of us and threatened us, but, like, I didn't think he would do it outside of our family, kill someone. What she didn't know was on September 11th, Grady went down to Pit Lone, a local pawn shop, and submitted an application to purchase a new H&R.32 caliber pistol. Donna didn't return home, but kept living with Jack's sister for several more days, fearing what was going to happen if she went home. Yeah. Donna and Jack decided the only way to get her away from her father for good was for them to get married. But she was only 15 years old, right? So she would need parental consent. And in late September, she called her father and explained what she wanted to do. And to her surprise, he didn't object.
Elena
That's terrifying because it sounds like Christmas.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
If you're listening to this podcast, you know that a day can change in an instant. How many stories have we told where one little thing just snowballed out of control and led down some really dark paths? Well, you know what? We need some nourishment so that we can stay sharp and out of danger. And cachava Whole body meal shakes will keep your body and mind nourished all day and ready for anything. Here's the deal. When I first heard about cachava, I said, yeah, sure, that sounds great, but I've tasted a million gajillion protein drinks, and they all taste pretty yucky. Not cachava. I'm so happy I gave it a chance because this drink is actually delicious. I've tried greens powders before. I've tried different protein powders, and I've never really liked any of them until I tried cachava. They have so many flavors to choose from. There's chocolate, vanilla, chai matcha, and coconut acai. Personally, I like to mix the vanilla and the chai together. I do a scoop of each. It's delicious. And I love that it has 25 grams of plant protein. That is pretty good protein. It has 26 vitamins and minerals, 6 grams of fiber, which we are all lacking, and over 85 superfoods nutrients and plant based ingredients. Stay sharp and fuel yourself with Kachava. Go to kachava.com and use code morbid for 15% off on their subscription for a limited time. That's Kachava K A C-H-A-V A.com code morbid for 15% off when it comes to spending, sometimes it's out of sight, out of mind. That daily coffee habit, those streaming subscriptions, out of sight, out of mind. And they add up fast without you really even noticing. But Rocket Money can help you spot those patterns so that you can do something about them and keep more money in your pocket. What is Rocket Money? Well, it's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. What's awesome is that you can see all of your subscriptions in one place. It's all consolidated so you know exactly where your money is going. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. I am a user of Rocket. I have absolutely saved money. The amount of double subscriptions I realized I had. Like, why do I have so many? Not anymore though, because Rocket Money helped me. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to Rocket Money.commorbid today. That's RocketMoney.commorbid RocketMoney.commorbid.
Ash
Donna and Jack plan to get married in a small ceremony on September 28, and in the days before it, they took all the details, took care of everything, including applying for the marriage license, getting the blood test you had to get back then, you.
Elena
Had to do a blood test.
Ash
On the morning of September 27, Donna met Jack at his house and the two went out to do some shopping before returning to Grady's apartment where Donna was planning to clean for the wedding reception. So, like he was gonna be involved in this. It was gonna be. They weren't running away to get married. She was doing it all.
Elena
She was involving him.
Ash
When they arrived, Grady wasn't home, but he had instead gone down to a bar, of course, where he stayed until 7pm and drank 12 double whiskeys.
Elena
Holy.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
So 24 whiskeys.
Ash
Yeah. So they went out to get some food for the reception and when they got home around 7:30, they found a very drunk Grady sitting on the couch. His wheelchair was nowhere in sight. Grady Said he had left it out by the front door and someone stole it. It. So they all were like, oh, shit. So they volunteered to go out into the neighborhood and look for it. As they were all leaving the house, Grady said, actually, Jack, why don't you stay back with me? No. And Donna recalled, Barbara and I went around into the metered parking lot out back looking for the wheelchair. We were just about halfway around and I heard a bang. And then I heard a bang again immediately after. And I ran towards the house. When I got there, Jack came stumbling out of the house. He was holding his chest in the middle.
Elena
Oh, God, blood.
Ash
When he reached Donna, he collapsed on the ground and began coughing out blood.
Elena
And they were just gonna get married.
Ash
And he's like her protector.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
And she. Donna said it didn't seem real. It seemed like a joke. I looked up and dad was standing on his knees looking out the window, smiling at me.
Elena
What a son of a.
Ash
When she asked why he'd done it, he said, because I told you I would.
Elena
What he is? Cruel isn't even the word. He's so far beyond.
Ash
He's a piece of absolute demon. By then, they could hear sirens coming when they arrived. Barbara explained. So that stepmother explained what they believed happened and pointed them in the direction. So she was like, he did it. Like, yeah. She was like, that's fucked up. And Grady was sitting in a large overstuffed chair, the gun sitting on an end table beside him. And according to Detective Joseph Stottlemeier, when the arresting officers entered the room, he said, take me, I'm ready. And he was arrested without incident.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
The bullet entered Jack's chest on the left side and exited from his right shoulder. He was rushed to the hospital by ambulance, but he died a few hours later from his wounds.
Elena
Oh, that's just awful.
Ash
That also escalated the crime from attempted murder to second degree murder. Grady was taken to the county jail to await his arraignment.
Elena
Also. I wonder why second degree?
Ash
I think it was because he said.
Elena
He was going to. That's very much first degree.
Ash
That's what I'm saying. I think that should have been first. First degree. Yeah. I don't think it would have mattered either way because in the meantime, a coroner's inquest was held to determine exactly what the happened in that. In that apartment. And during the inquest, Donna explained that she and Jack had run off together a few weeks earlier and that her father had, quote, not been happy about the impending marriage, though he had consented to it during his Testimony. Detective Stottlemeier recounted Grady's statement telling the panel of juries of the jury that Grady claimed he had heard talk in the street that Lane, which is Jack, had been saying nasty things about his daughter, and he had taken all he could take, pulled out his.32 caliber revolver and shot Lane.
Elena
Yeah, that's not how it happened.
Ash
No, that's not it at all. Grady was arraigned on a charge of third degree murder. And in early 1979, the case went to trial. Over the course of several weeks, a number of family members testified that Grady had made threats towards Jack and Donna. And Donna herself testified that she had been with her father when he purchased the gun. However, several other witnesses, including Grady, indicated he had purchased the gun because Barbara had been receiving threatening phone calls.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Testifying in his own defense, Grady told the jury that Donna had changed since she started dating Jack. Yeah, she's probably happier, more independent. She would sneak out of the house late at night and come home sometimes with beer on her breath.
Elena
Oh, honey.
Ash
Okay. Glass house for real. Okay. Glass house. Grady also claimed that once they were alone, Jack had come at him in a menacing fashion.
Elena
I bet.
Ash
And he said, I don't know what came over him, but I was scared, I guess, of him killing me.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
I doubt it.
Elena
Yeah. The projection here is wild.
Ash
Yeah. As for all the contradictory evidence and witness statements, Grady claimed all those people, including the police, got together and fabricated their stories.
Elena
The police often do that.
Ash
That's a real dumb thing to say.
Elena
Say, for sure. Totally.
Ash
On February 22, 1979, the jury retired for deliberation and returned a little over three hours later to find Grady guilty of third degree murder. When the verdict was read, Grady began weeping at the defense table. The verdict came as a surprise to many, including the prosecutor, who actually expected an acquittal would come because of sympathy for his condition.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
However, while the verdict was like, yippee, it also posed some complications. Primarily, was there a jail or prison in Pennsylvania capable of accommodating someone in Grady's condition for as long as 15 or 20 years?
Elena
And there wasn't.
Ash
After careful consideration, the answer was no.
Elena
That's ridiculous.
Ash
Yes. In the end, Judge Thomas Harper did his best to find middle ground and sentenced Grady to 15 years of probation, noting, quote, no prison in the state can accommodate a person with his physical deformities. That's a quote. After reading the sentence in court, the judge said, I'm not sure that a prison term would not be cruel and unusual punishment in this case. Society doesn't require vengeance. And I felt a probationary term met the best interests for society and the defendant. The prosecution, though disappointed with the sentence, didn't make a comment.
Elena
I mean, that's a tough.
Ash
That sucks.
Elena
That's awful. He killed a man.
Ash
Yeah. Like, it sucks that nobody was willing, nobody could.
Elena
Because that's the thing.
Ash
It's like you can't just accommodate him out. And it's like nobody could accommodate him. And that now he gets to.
Elena
Because I wonder what he. What he would have required, aside from like something wheelchair accessible.
Ash
I think that's enough.
Elena
That's it.
Ash
Right. I think that's enough for it.
Elena
And they didn't have.
Ash
They didn't have that. Because think about it. It just wasn't a priority back then.
Elena
70S, though.
Ash
Like, it's crazy.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Anyway, now after Jack's murder.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Cold blooded murder. His sister and other family members blamed Donna for his death and refused to allow her to stay with them any longer. So she was allowed by court order, luckily, to return to Florida to live with her mother, Teresa and Glenn, finally.
Elena
So that's great.
Ash
Under the circumstances.
Elena
Really shitty like that. She didn't do anything wrong.
Ash
I know. And under the circumstances, I love this too. Because Teresa also insisted Donna bring Catherine with her. And Grady did not put up a fight. Oh, wow. So they were able to go live with Teresa and Glenn.
Elena
And those were the only two of the daughters left in his care. Right.
Ash
Because Deborah had moved out early on.
Elena
And she was older.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Now, throughout the 1980s, though, life for Glenn, Teresa and the kids was a struggle. After his tire business went under, Glen was forced to return to the carnival circus to perform his role as the world's smallest man. And once again, Teresa found herself kind of back where she started trying to figure stuff out. Every year, when the school year would come to an end, they would have to pack up the kids and join Glenn on the road to help with responsibilities. It was seeming to like a pattern was repeating here. Because that's difficult.
Elena
Yeah, of course.
Ash
And Glenn was having difficulty because he was getting older. It was not easy. For more than a decade, they had had a good marriage. He had been a stable, very constant presence in Teresa's life. And he had treated her better than any other man, and he was a good father to the children. But as the 80s came to a close, she was starting to feel a little restless in the marriage. And she was kind of growing tired of being, you know, a constant helper and just going along for the ride, you know, like having to go out on the road and doing all that stuff. And she loved kids. Yeah. And she sees that she's doing the same pattern, just with a nicer man. You know what I mean? But it's still the same, like. Like, I'm not doing right by these kids by taking them on the road. It's a tough life, you know? And so in 1990, Teresa and Glenn divorced and she moved out, taking the kids with her. It should have been a liberating moment, you know, because she. She spent her entire life waiting on accommodating following, having to be the assistant for men. But she quickly found herself lonely because she's also a human being. In response, she called up Grady. And this is where we get to where I say, what? What? Yeah, what? Here's the thing, though. So he had separated from his wife, and in the years since his conviction. I know, I'm sorry.
Elena
Me and Mikey are literally, like, looking at each other like, what the.
Ash
I agree. I'm with you on this. I'm shocked. I am shocked. I am dismayed. Grady had been on house arrest during this time because of the probation.
Elena
13 fucking years for murdering. Murdering her daughter's fiance.
Ash
So he could not continue drinking the way he was on probation. So he had scaled back, and for the first time in many years, he was pretty sober.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
So for Theresa, she thought she was seeing a glimpse at the Grady she knew when they were first dating.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Because remember, she got kind of love bombed. Yes. Not kind of.
Elena
She got love bombed. Love bombed.
Ash
And she saw this amazing man who was like. And they had gone so far as to get married very happily.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Had children very happily. And then it was like, everything just imploded right at once. And then he became a heavy drinker and things got worse. So for her, I'm just trying to, like. I'm just trying to, like, not on Teresa, because, like, I feel like Teresa had such a life and such hardships that I. Yeah. And I just feel for the family. You know what I mean? Like, I feel for these children. I feel for. I don't know. It's just a very sad situation.
Elena
I'm sure being in a relationship like that, like, alters your brain chemistry.
Ash
That's the thing. I. I'm trying not to, like, judge too hard for her because I'm like. I don't know what it's like to have been in that kind of no.
Elena
Turmoil and, I mean, children with somebody.
Ash
And, like, to have your children be in that turn, like, I can't. I can't fathom it. I really can't. So while I don't understand this decision.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
I don't. I don't understand. I can at least stand from back here and say, I don't know what your life feels like. Right. And I don't know what it felt for you to think you were seeing a hint of who you fell in love with. Yeah.
Elena
You have to have empathy for yourself.
Ash
That's the thing. So that's why I'm like stepping back from my full blown judgment here and trying to look at it from like you were seeing someone you. You. You fell in love with or you thought you were. You know what I mean? It's just a really fucked up, sad situation. I really feel just awful for these children, for them, for really especially Donna. That's the thing. Well, that's the thing. That's where I say, what the fuck?
Elena
Like, that's just a level for your father to kill your husband, like days before you're to marry him.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
Not go to prison because of all the different circumstances. Finally get away from him, even though, like, his, his family thinks that it's your fault. Then you get to go live with your mother again.
Ash
And she brings that man back into your life.
Elena
Right back into his.
Ash
That's the thing. Like Donna, all of them, all those kids, I feel bad. But the person I feel most, most for is Donna. I feel so horrible because that's just.
Elena
Such like, trauma on top of trauma on top of trauma. And it's like it's compounding trauma.
Ash
It's also like Teresa has kind of been molded since she was a child, truly, to bend to the whims of men and accommodate them and kind of, you know, demean yourself for them. Like, not really think of yourself as an independent person who can do this.
Elena
Who can break out on their own.
Ash
And even in her moments of doing it, you know what I mean? I feel like she always gets sucked back in with some man who's kind of taking the reins.
Elena
Yeah. I mean, she's a victim.
Ash
And so she's a victim of her own. Right. But then it's like these children are a victim of these men and also their. Unfortunately, their mother's trauma of not being able to be without these men. And it's like, so there's this awful. And that's what I meant when I was saying, like, you can see that there was. Teresa wanted to break this cycle, but there was. She was for a time, broken that she was struggling to fix. And I think it just makes me really sad that, like, all of these young women and all of them were embroiled in this.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Because it's like, what the fuck? Like, it's just like, this guy is a monster.
Elena
It's just trash.
Ash
A straight up monster. And it's like Teresa wanted to break free. That's why I just am, like, I wanted her to break free with Glenn and those kids right off the jump.
Elena
I know.
Ash
Because it's like, this would have been such a different story.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
But Grady had to be cruel, and he had to pull those kids back just to abuse them.
Elena
Right.
Ash
Just to traumatize them. And it's like, I don't think they would have lived with this much trauma if they had lived with Teresa.
Elena
So she goes. She goes back and does. He does step out again. Like, so for.
Ash
Again, for Teresa, this whole thing is. And I'm just speaking from. What she's saying is that she's saying she saw a glimpse of who she fell in love with. She saw a sober Grady who she thought could, you know, be who he was. So they were talking regularly over the phone. Still, Theresa knew her children, especially Donna, disapproved of any of this, any kind of relationship with Grady, so she wouldn't bring him up around them. But they knew, like, obviously. And also, why are you even doing. If you know that they can't have a part of this? It's, like, why you even do it. It's just not something you should be doing.
Elena
Yeah. Old habits die hard.
Ash
Donna later said. I still wouldn't talk to him on the phone, and she wouldn't talk about him with us.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Following her divorce from Glenn, Teresa moved the kids to Okeechobee, Florida. And again, they're moving everywhere all the time. And soon, Grady had relocated back to Gibsonton, Florida, where he'd spent much of his life. As he and Teresa got kind of reacquainted with one another, she encouraged the kids to spend time with him.
Elena
Okay. I can understand. I'm sure, like, I can't understand it, but I'm sure in her mind, it was important for them to have their father.
Ash
And it's. Again, something is broken here.
Elena
Yes.
Ash
Like, Teresa has dealt with things that. And it's. Again, it doesn't give anybody a past to be a bad parent.
Elena
No.
Ash
And I think she would probably agree that this was one of the worst choices she could have made.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Because honestly, she does regret this choice later.
Elena
She does.
Ash
So there's that.
Elena
And we have to remember that we're looking at this through A lens where, like, we know so much.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
About so much now that, that we didn't know about back then.
Ash
But again, it does not give a pass to put your children through this kind of stuff. It just doesn't. And I personally, I cannot understand it. I'm trying to look at it through a very logical, like, totally kind of disconnected lens of like, well, this is what she's thinking, because that's what she said. And I don't want to like, shit all over her because she's been through a lot.
Elena
No, that's it. You can't understand, but you can empathize.
Ash
Exactly. I can't understand. I can empathize with what she's gone through, but I cannot understand this.
Elena
I'm in awe right now.
Ash
And again, all the kids, and they're getting older now especially too. They're like, becoming teenagers and stuff. They're all reluctant to go down this road again because, you know, there was no one happens. There was the murder of somebody's fiance. There was that.
Elena
Sherry Papini went missing in 2016. The story that the world thinks they know is that I am a master manipulator. She is California's real life gone girl.
Ash
It's not me.
Elena
This was a hoax. Oh, you're only talking now because you got caught.
Ash
And could this person be playing you?
Elena
This is just a lie. Now I get to tell the truth. Sherry Pepini, caught in The Lie, an ID documentary event, Monday at 9.
Ash
At first they were like, no, we're not into this. But when they saw that Grady was trying to maintain sobriety and he was showing them that he was. And he was very open about the fact that he was very interested in rebuilding a relationship. This is their father.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Again, I have a good dad, so I can't speak from somebody who has a shitty parent who has made steps. Oh, I so can. To make the relationship better. You know what I mean?
Elena
Oh, actually, I can't do that.
Ash
Exactly. So I don't want to speak from this, like, experience to say, like, I don't understand how they could even, you know, entertain this because, again, I didn't have. I was lucky enough to not have this situation.
Elena
Well, I think when you have such a shitty parent like you, you. All you want is for them to be better.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
And all you want, like, abandonment issues are insane. Like these. I can't imagine what these kids must have felt.
Ash
They can paint every single part of your life.
Elena
Yeah. And they do. Like, I. I'm fine. I'm very well adjusted. But Like, I still struggle with that, I'm sure. So if you. If your parent is actually making the effort, that's all you want. So of course that's. You're gonna go along with it.
Ash
I mean, obviously, I've just never been.
Elena
In a position of somebody making effort.
Ash
Well, yeah, there you go. And I have people close to me, like, very close to me, who had awful relationships with their parents, and then their parents tried to make it right later. And it is a very conflicting, very hard thing for somebody, even as an adult, to deal with. Because no matter what, no matter how shitty your parents are, there's still your parents in some weird part of you is always going to want them to be your parents.
Elena
Well, no, they're always your parents.
Ash
When your parents suck, I think it's.
Elena
So hard to make those kind of decisions. Like, when somebody is making an effort because you're always their child.
Ash
That. Yeah. I can't imagine. You know what I mean?
Elena
And you go back into the role of being the child.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
And feeling the things that you felt when you were a child, like, wanting your parent.
Ash
Yeah. Because, like, biologically, we all haven't. We wanted parents to be our safe place. Yeah.
Elena
Yes.
Ash
And when they're not, I can't imagine how that throws you into, like. Cause again, I'm very fortunate enough that I do not have parents who made me feel unsafe.
Elena
Yeah. Ma and Papa rock out loud.
Ash
They do. They rock out loud. So it's like I'm speaking from a place where, like, I can't tell you how this feels. And I know a lot of you listening are speaking can come from a place of the total opposite, where your parents weren't and aren't and couldn't be your safety. And I'm sorry, because I can't imagine how that feels. And it can trans. It can really transform how you make decisions.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
It can color every part of your existence.
Elena
Especially, like, with, like. I'm just thinking of, like, how therapy just, like, was not a thing back then. Yeah. And, like, not. Not really at all.
Ash
No.
Elena
I would be so different if I hadn't done years and years of therapy.
Ash
That's the thing. And we're adding on again, I know, like, people I really love and care about who have gone through, like, dealing with parents coming back and trying to build a relationship and really putting an effort. But those parents also didn't kill their spouse.
Elena
That's a whole other layer of it.
Ash
That's a whole layer onto this where I'm like.
Elena
Cause then you add grief into it.
Ash
Yes.
Elena
And blame. And.
Ash
And you took someone I love from.
Elena
Me, like, quite literally.
Ash
Like, you literally took someone I love. And that's where I say, like, teresa, how could you ask them to do this?
Elena
That's the thing with Donna.
Ash
It's just, how can you ask her to do this? This? And again, you're her mother. She's gonna want to please you, and.
Elena
You'Re supposed to protect her.
Ash
It's like. And that's where the safe space gets snipped for a minute, because that. Your mother shouldn't be asking you to do this.
Elena
Yeah. I also think it's probably. And I'm sure people listening feel this way. It's so. Again, I. I can't understand, but I can have empathy. But it is hard to have empathy in a situation like this.
Ash
Oh, my God. Yeah.
Elena
I haven't even gone through something similar to that exactly.
Ash
At all.
Elena
But, like. Like, when. So when somebody wrongs their child and you're a child who's been wronged, you're just like, God damn it.
Ash
Well, that's the thing. And I have, like, I. I always have to pull myself back a little bit because I get real fucking mad when people mistreat their kids. Well, because you're not even a mistreated kid. I just. I think of my kids and you.
Elena
Think of your kids. And, like, frankly, like, just for everybody who thinks that me and Elena have a weird relationship, Elena's my protector. Like, genuinely, like your people's protector. And the other people in your life who have gone through similar things. Things, you're their protector. So you're like, don't wrong them.
Ash
I'm like, I'm gonna. You up. You are this kid.
Elena
So that's why you feel that way Because. Because you're the safe space. Yes.
Ash
Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.
Elena
No, you are.
Ash
That's what I'd strive to be for my little. You are goobins in my life. But. And you are. You are one of my little goobies. I am in my life, and I think of, like, who wronged you? And I want to. You know, this has become therapy.
Elena
Anyway, what happens? What happened?
Ash
But, yeah, I think it just. He seemed like he was trying to get sober. He was doing his best with that. And then he was making it clear to them that he wanted to rebuild.
Elena
The relationship and that he felt some kind of.
Ash
Some kind of remorse. Regret.
Elena
Yeah. And remorse.
Ash
So they softened.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
But still, genuine or not, he couldn't wipe away the lifetime worth of horrible, abusive, violent, horrific, traumatizing memories.
Elena
You just can't.
Ash
And Donna says, I don't think I ever started loving my father like a dad again. Which is very sad.
Elena
Well, you know what, though?
Ash
It is very sad that, like, she didn't ever get that ability to do it.
Elena
He wasn't her dad.
Ash
Well, that's. He took. I hope she knows that that is not her inability to love him again. It was his inability to be a lovable person.
Elena
Right. He never was a father to, like.
Ash
Give that to her.
Elena
How can you love somebody like a father when they're not a father to you?
Ash
He was never a father.
Elena
And when they take away somebody who finally did protect and wanted to protect. Right.
Ash
Like, so that I really hope that, like, Donna and their kids, like, know that they have done nothing wrong in this situation and that they. They were totally valid in their feelings and their hesitation here. Now, not long after Grady moved back to Florida, he and Teresa got remarried.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Which seemed to have been his goal. Seemed that since that first phone call Teresa made to him after her divorce.
Elena
Uh huh.
Ash
And unfortunately, once Grady got what he wanted, he begins sliding right back into his old ways.
Elena
That's tragic. That is truly tragic for everyone involved.
Ash
And I'll say, fortunately for some of the children, all of them had moved out by then, except for Glenny, who was a teenager.
Elena
Okay. And he's not Grady's child, so I can only imagine how Grady felt about that.
Ash
Exactly. But soon enough, even the kids that were out of the house were starting to notice that their father wasn't very around very often. And they would call or visit and he wouldn't be there. And, you know, he'd be spending time at bars again. He was out for days. And eventually Teresa did admit to Donna that Grady was fully back in his old ways. Like spending all their money at bars.
Elena
Abusing her right back.
Ash
Yeah, right back to it. And because his temper came right back. The frustrations, the anger, the rage, he was abusing her. He was abusing like it was bad. One night in late 1991, after a night out drinking, he returned home and demanded that Teresa bring him a drink in bed. So Teresa did. But she handed him the drink and she said, this is the last drink I'm gonna get you.
Elena
Uh huh.
Ash
And in response, he grabbed a handful of her hair and yanked her back on the bed hard enough to pull clumps of it from her scalp. Oh, fuck. Do remember too. She's horribly afraid of this man now. Of course she is.
Elena
He's beaten the shit out of her for Years.
Ash
Which makes it worse that she is now in this position again. Because, like, I wish you had stayed away from him.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Because, like, he has gone most of his life also keeping that upper body strength. So he's. Oh, I didn't even see him. Not only is he a frightening and very rage strong, like, raging guy, he's very, very strong. And when you're. You have crazy upper body strength, you can do a lot of damage. Yeah. Of course, now, after this whole incident happened, Teresa felt that feeling she hadn't felt in years, which is, I'm fucking tired of this.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
She'd had enough. And so getting. She said this whole. That whole thing was a mistake. I should have never got. She says it, I should have never gotten back together with him. And she said, but now I am facing the consequences of my actions.
Elena
Oh, God.
Ash
Gosh. She thought about leaving again, but by then she didn't have the same resources or willpower that she'd had the last time she left him. And he had been getting. He had been using all their money at bars. So she stayed and endured the abuse, which was inevitably followed by the sense of guilt for having fallen right back into Grady's trap.
Elena
It's a cycle.
Ash
Exactly. By November, it really shows you how too scary the abuse cycle is and that people will go back into it just because of how deeply rooted the abuse cycle is. It's like, really scary and really sad. The fact that we treat each other this way and the fact that, like, we treat people we supposedly love this way as like a society.
Elena
We're the only species.
Ash
We gotta get it together. I say that every time. Like, we gotta get it together.
Elena
We do.
Ash
Like, this kind of pisses me off so much. I'm like, you don't have to be this way. You do not have to be. Be a cruel piece of. To the people who look to you for protection and to be a safe place.
Elena
No.
Ash
So by November 1992, life with Grady was unbearable for Teresa and Glenny. Despite his attempts at sobriety a few years earlier, he had just. He was fully back. Fully back to being abusive, cruel and alcoholic. The same man who had beaten her while her husband watched helplessly, by the way, and then had threatened to murder her son Glenn when he was a child. Yep. So that. Yeah. And now that same son is living under the roof with him.
Elena
Yep.
Ash
She was desperate to get out of the house and away from him, but it seemed like no matter what she did or where she looked, there was just no options for escape. In the end, it Wasn't Teresa who took charge of the situation, it was Glenny. But 17 year old Glenn Junior.
Elena
I knew it was headed that way.
Ash
He resolved to do something about his stepfather. And he wanted to save his mother. That November, Glenn called up the toughest person he could think of, which was 17 year old Chris Wyant. Even though he was just 17, Chris, an occasional sideshow performer, had a very long criminal record. And Glenny was certain Chris would know what to do about his stepfather.
Elena
And remember this kid Glen has watched his mother be beaten by this man his entire life.
Ash
While his father was held down with a shotgun his entire life.
Elena
Just saying, I don't know what happens, but that's what I have in my mind right now.
Ash
You can't. Again, no one will ever say that murder is the correct end game for anything.
Elena
It's not a good choice.
Ash
So if you take that from what we're saying, then like, you didn't listen. You're clearly not listening. But no one's saying that. But what this is a clear show of like evidence of is you cannot beat someone down their entire life. You just can't, like people explode. You just can't do that. You can't treat someone like this for their, their whole life. As we saw with Ken McElroy, that whole thing, you can't do that. No, because you do lose people, lose their humanity for you because you have, you have treated them subhuman their whole life. Like, you know what I mean? It's like I. This kid wanted to protect his mom and it's like really sad. And he didn't know any other option and it's like, obviously he made the wrong decision, right? But like the whole thing is just like, God damn, like he's broken this happen and it's really Sad. So on November 26, Glennie and Chris met at a local park where Glennie gave his friend the details of everything that was happening and said, can you just help me, help me end this. The price would later be disputed in court, but Chris initially told Glenny he would take care of the situation for 300 bucks.
Elena
Ooh.
Ash
In the end, he would be paid $1,500 regardless of the actual price. Though Chris did agree to take care of Grady and Glenny agreed to pay him.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
A few days later, Glenny would try to call the whole thing off and get his money back. So you can tell he just, he was desperate. And then he was like, fuck, I shouldn't do this. But by then, Chris had already bought a gun and Spent the rest of the money. So the deal went forward as planned. On the evening of November 29th, Glennie broke down and told his mother about the arrangement, which also shows you that this is. He has remorse already. He hasn't. He hasn't even done it. And he's like, I fucked up.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
But you can tell the desperation in this case. He's just so desperate to break down and tell his mom. He's just like, I don't know what to do. Like, I just wanted to help you.
Elena
Heartbreaking.
Ash
Yeah. To his surprise, though, his mother didn't express a sense of shock or attempt to call the police to put an end to the whole thing. Instead, she and Glennie left the house quietly, leaving Grady asleep in his chair watching television. A few Hours later, around 11pm, Chris Wyant slipped into the trailer through the back door they'd left open. Having been there a few times, he knew the layout. So he tried to go silently and be quiet, but he made a noise and he woke Grady up. He began shouting at Chris to get out and never come back. And Chris went back a few steps into the kitchen like he was going to leave. But then he aimed the gun and fired. And the bullet hit Grady in the back of the head and killed him instantly.
Elena
Wow.
Ash
Then, just to be sure, he fired two more shots. Both hit Grady in the head just a few centimeters from the first wound. With Grady now dead, Chris ran out the back door and fled into the night. From where they were sitting in the neighbor's living room, Glenny and Teresa could hear the gunshots. Glenny just next door? Yeah, they're just next door. Glennie even remembered looking out the window and seeing Chris run from the trailer.
Elena
Damn.
Ash
And he said when he saw him fleeing the scene, he knew the terror they'd been living with, that his mother had been living with for decades had finally come to an end, and that they would not have to worry about the Lobster Boy again.
Elena
Wow.
Ash
That was what Glenny said to detectives at the scene. Things in the house were immediately suspicious. Obviously, the killer had clearly entered through an unlocked door. Nothing was missing. And so they were like, this wasn't a robbery. This was clearly a targeted assassination. Yeah. A spokesperson for the sheriff's office told reporters the next day, we've got some leads, but we're not saying much. So they were being cagey with the press, and it's likely because they already knew what happened in the Stiles house, and they didn't want to let out any details before they were ready. By the time they finished taking Glenn Jr. S statement that night, they more or less had a pretty accurate understanding of how things had unfolded from his contracting Chris Wyant through the murder. The following morning, they arrested Teresa, Glenn Jr. And Chris Wyant on a charge of first degree murder based on the statements of Teresa and her son.
Elena
So they basically just admitted it.
Ash
Yeah. Wow. The trial for all three began in July of the next year, with the defense attorney arguing that Theresa and Glenn had been pushed to the point of murder after years of domestic violence. At the time, the domestic violence aspect of the case, which was known as battered wife syndrome, was relatively new and pretty novel. But it turned out they wouldn't get a chance to try it because the judge ordered that self defense cannot be argued if it's a contract murder. Yeah. The case was further disrupted a few days later when a mistrial was declared because there was issues with the jury and the prosecution moved for a retrial. It turned out that they wouldn't end up. They would end up waiting for like over a year for their trial to start. And that's when they were all being tried for first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder, which could carry the death penalty. But the prosecution didn't have any interest in pursuing that.
Elena
Okay.
Ash
Under the circumstances, Chris Wyant had pretty limited defense since he had been identified by his two co defendants. In late January 1994, he was found guilty of second degree and guilty of conspiracy to commit first degree murder. And he was sentenced to 27 years in prison for each charge. He was. But it was going to be served concurrently. He was released from prison in 2009 after serving a minimum of 15 years. And he has lived out of the spotlight. Okay, out he goes. Having been ordered for a new trial, though, Teresa once again offered a self defense argument. Her attorney, Arnold Levine, told the jury she honestly believed she had no other alternative but to participate in this terrible act. In response to her defense, the judge ruled that the self defense argument could be allowed, but only if Theresa was willing to admit the role she played in hiring her husband's killer, which she did it. The stipulation struck a lot in the legal. A lot of people in the legal community as like weird and unusual. Law professor Stephen Goldstein told a reporter, I don't understand why she has to testify to it. Like saying that whether she testifies to her role or not, it wouldn't change the outcome.
Elena
Right.
Ash
Why say she has like this much of a role in it?
Elena
Yeah. Especially when she really didn't.
Ash
Yeah. She Was just told after the fact she didn't do anything to stop it. But it's like.
Elena
Right, But I mean, like, she didn't really. Yeah.
Ash
But regardless of whether it was an appropriate stipulation, she did confess her role and offered the domestic abuse stories as her motive. All of which were backed up by testimony from her children and others who'd known her over the years. All of them knew how he was with her.
Elena
I mean, this is clearly an abusive man. He was literally on parole for killing his daughter's fiance.
Ash
I was gonna say, I mean, hello. In the end, her defense was moderately successful. Although the jury did find her guilty. They all agreed the circumstances warranted a less charge, a lesser charge, and she was convicted of manslaughter in conspiracy to commit first degree murder. It was the first time in Florida's history that a jury allowed. Was allowed to consider self defense in a case of contract murder.
Elena
Wow.
Ash
So this is like.
Elena
That's remarkable. Yeah.
Ash
After the verdict was read, the prosecution agreed that it was a successful compromise, calling it, quote, a fair resolution of a very difficult issue. In August, a judge sentenced Teresa to 12 years in prison for her role in the murder, followed by five years of probation. Probation. And she was really released from prison in 2000.
Elena
Wow.
Ash
A few months later, Glenn Jr. Was offered a plea deal in which he would confess to everything in exchange for the same sentence as his mother. But apparently Teresa insisted he reject the offer and go to trial.
Elena
I don't know about that.
Ash
As a result, he went on trial for first degree murder and conspiracy to commit first degree murder. And after a very brief trial, they deliberated for just over an hour and found him guilty on both charges.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
And sentenced him to 25 years to life murder. Yeah.
Elena
Why wouldn't you take a plea deal?
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
And when there's a charge of conspiracy and like, capital murder and all that. Or not. Yeah. I don't know why you wouldn't take that deal.
Ash
But sadly, according to the Florida department of corrections, Glenn Jr. Died on March 5, 2014.
Elena
Oh.
Ash
But they didn't release any details regarding his death.
Elena
Oh, that's so sad.
Ash
I know. So that is. That's. That's it. Like, that's how it all shakes out. Wow.
Elena
That's two of the three ended up start to finish.
Ash
They're out of jail. But Glenn Jr. Passed away.
Elena
Did he. Was he born with the condition? No, because.
Ash
No, because he was his child. Son.
Elena
I didn't know if it was like complications from that maybe or something.
Ash
They never released his death.
Elena
That's really sad.
Ash
It's a really sad, sad, sad situation from beginning to end.
Elena
It just shows how dangerous it can be to.
Ash
I hope everyone has been able to move forward from it in some way, shape or form and there's been some growth somewhere.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
And I hope those kids have been able to move forward from it because like, like, that's when I think it was one. I think it was Donna or Deborah. One of them said that, like, they have no happy memories from childhood. How could they think of it? And I'm like, that is, is horrible.
Elena
That's so, so sad.
Ash
Like how. And Donna loses the love somebody she's in love with her soon to be husband and then had to be around that man again.
Elena
And Glennie lost his adult life because obviously, again, he made a poor decision.
Ash
He had no childhood and then lost his whole life after. Like, there's just no winners in this situation.
Elena
And he was just, he was trying to protect his mom.
Ash
Well, that's what breaks my heart is like, again, I don't think I have to keep saying it. No, we're not condoning murder or contracting in any way, shape or form. But like, you just see the desperation in that kid, especially the way he acted afterwards where one, he tried to stop.
Elena
Trying to stop it all.
Ash
And two, he went right to his mom and was like, I did something bad. And like, I, I want to stop this.
Elena
It's like how desperate she was to not do anything to stop it.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
That is a really sad case. Dude. Dude.
Ash
Yeah. Bummed me out in like a way I can't describe.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
It's just I need to do something different for my next one.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
Because like, this really bummed me out.
Elena
We have listener tales coming up, so there you go.
Ash
You guys will soothe. You'll be like bomb on my soul.
Elena
Yeah. Yeah, it'll be good. Oh, man.
Ash
And Nicholas will be. Will be on our next listener.
Elena
Tell soothing to my soul.
Ash
Maybe he'll be in a better mood.
Elena
He better be. He was really reading me for film.
Ash
Both. But he'll. He'll make me feel better.
Elena
Oh, man. Oh, man.
Ash
I know.
Elena
Go touch grass, everyone. Go tell grass. If you have a good parent, tell them how much you appreciate them for not being so terrible.
Ash
Yeah. And go like, if you have, if you are a parent or if you just like, love a child in your.
Elena
Life, go tell them that.
Ash
Go be awesome to them. Go be a safe place for them.
Elena
Gonna go donate to like, domestic violence causes.
Ash
And if you, you have parents that suck ass, I'm sorry.
Elena
Yeah. Thank you.
Ash
I'm sorry.
Elena
Like, mine didn't suck that bad.
Ash
That sucks.
Elena
Yeah.
Ash
And we're. I'm. I'm your parent.
Elena
But you know what?
Ash
Okay. If you're listening and your parents suck, I'm your parent.
Elena
Yes, you're one of the goobins, but you want my goobin. It's cool to know that you can break the cycle. I think that's a very empowering thing to lean on if you want to. No.
Ash
And it shouldn't. It's not easy. So. So it doesn't. If it doesn't feel easy, that's okay. Okay.
Elena
And it shouldn't be up to you, but sometimes it just works that way.
Ash
But people are going to people. People going to people. So there we go.
Elena
God damn. Well, we hope you keep listening.
Ash
We hope you do. We hope you.
Elena
And we hope you keep it weird. Just not so weird that, like, you abuse people you love. Keep your hands to yourself.
Ash
Yeah.
Elena
Stop hitting people. Don't get married if you don't like the person.
Ash
It's.
Elena
You know, we all have free will.
Ash
Don't do good with your free will. Gosh darn it.
Elena
God damn, Sam.
Ash
Foreign.
Elena
If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com survey.
C
Lamont Jones's world is shattered when his cousin dies in custody just weeks after entering prison. Prison. The official report says natural causes, but bruises and missing teeth tell a different story. From Wondery comes Death County Penns, a chilling true story of corruption and cover ups that begins as one man's search for answers but soon reveals a disturbing pattern. Lamont's cousin's death is just one of many and powerful forces are working to keep the truth buried. With never before heard interviews and shocking revelations, Death County, Pennsylvania pulls back the curtain on one of America's darkest institutional secrets. This isn't just another true crime story. It's happening right now. Follow Death County Pa on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Death County PA early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.
Podcast Summary: Morbid | Episode 675: The Life and Death of “Lobster Boy”, Grady Stiles Jr.
Hosts: Ash and Elena
Release Date: May 26, 2025
Podcast: Morbid by Morbid Network | Wondery
The episode delves into the harrowing life and tragic death of Grady Stiles Jr., famously known as “Lobster Boy.” Ash and Elena navigate through Grady's tumultuous upbringing, family dynamics, abusive relationships, and the eventual culmination of his violent actions.
Grady Franklin Stiles Jr. was born on June 26, 1937, in Pittsburgh to Edna and Grady Stiles Sr., a carnival performer known as the "Lobster Man" due to his electrodactyly—a condition causing missing fingers and toes, giving him claw-like hands ([09:18] Ash). This rare genetic disorder, affecting roughly 1 in 100,000 births, had been present in the Stiles family since the 1840s.
To combat the ostracization Grady Jr. faced due to his appearance, the family relocated to Gibsonton, Florida—a haven for retired carnival workers ([12:08] Elena). Here, Grady found a semblance of normalcy among fellow sideshow performers. However, financial strains persisted, compelling Grady Jr. and his siblings to abandon traditional schooling in favor of supporting the family through carnival performances.
"Grady Jr. was just gonna live a life of performing. That was what he was going to do, just as his father had." ([12:08] Ash)
At 17, Grady Jr. married Deborah Brady, but the marriage was short-lived, ending in divorce after a year due to his abusive nature ([17:02] Ash). In the spring of 1959, Grady met Mary Teresa Herzog, known as Teresa, a ticket booth worker escaping her abusive stepfather. Their relationship blossomed despite the hierarchical constraints of the carnival, leading Grady to advocate for Teresa’s promotion to a performer role, thereby legitimizing their relationship within the circus community ([23:03] Ash).
Grady's harsh upbringing and the stresses of carnival life manifested into severe alcoholism and increasing violence. Teresa endured verbal, physical, and emotional abuse, including instances where Grady beat her and threw scalding coffee ([28:00] Ash). The birth of their healthy daughter, Donna, seemingly exacerbated Grady's anger, leading to heightened abusive behavior ([29:26] Ash).
"Following Donna's birth, Grady began to drink even more than he had. He was staying out late with other carnies and sometimes not coming home for days." ([29:26] Ash)
In the mid-1970s, after escalating abuse and the tragic death of their children Margaret and David from pneumonia, Teresa attempted to leave Grady with the help of Glenn Newman. However, unbeknownst to Teresa, Grady had filed for divorce and secured full custody of the children through emotional manipulation and legal maneuvering ([33:37] Ash).
"The court awarded full custody of the children." ([33:54] Ash)
Despite brief periods of stability with Glenn Newman, Grady's abusive tendencies resurfaced. After multiple confrontations and violent outbursts, Teresa made a desperate attempt to escape, leading to further turmoil and the involvement of their sons in the abusive household ([36:38] Ash).
Donna, one of Teresa and Grady’s daughters, fell in love with Jack Lane, Grady's son-in-law. Fearing her father's wrath, Donna and Jack contemplated marriage as an escape. However, on September 11th, after realizing the perilous situation, Grady went to a pawn shop to purchase a gun. On September 29th, during their planned wedding preparations, Grady murdered Jack by shooting him multiple times ([40:22] Ash).
The ensuing legal battles saw Teresa, Glenn Jr., and their associate Chris Wyant charged with first-degree murder and conspiracy. Teresa’s defense hinged on 'battered wife syndrome,' arguing that years of abuse forced her into the act. Despite these arguments, the court sentenced Teresa to 12 years in prison and Glenn Jr. to 25 years to life for their roles in orchestrating the murder of Grady Stiles Jr. ([78:49] Ash).
"They were convicted of manslaughter in conspiracy to commit first-degree murder." ([79:16] Ash)
Post-trial, Grady continued his abusive behavior until his violent death. Teresa, after completing her sentence, struggled with the aftermath and the traumatic legacy left on her children. Glenn Jr. served his time but tragically passed away in 2014 under undisclosed circumstances ([80:48] Ash).
Ash and Elena reflect on the devastating impact of Grady Stiles Jr.'s abusive life, emphasizing the cyclical nature of violence and trauma within families. They express deep empathy for the victims, particularly Donna, who endured relentless abuse and the loss of her fiancé. The hosts underscore the importance of breaking harmful cycles and seeking support to prevent such tragedies.
"You just can't beat someone down their entire life. You just can't treat someone like this for their whole life." ([81:00] Ash)
"The death of a child will change. You can change a relationship, and it really depends on the strength of the relationship to begin with." — Ash ([28:50])
"It's like you cannot beat someone down their entire life. You just can't treat someone like this for their whole life." — Ash ([81:00])
"He is a piece of absolute demon. He never was a father." — Elena ([66:44])
The tragic story of Grady Stiles Jr. serves as a poignant reminder of the destructive power of abuse and the profound scars it leaves on individuals and families. Ash and Elena’s empathetic discussion highlights the urgent need for society to address and break free from cycles of violence to foster healthier, safer environments for future generations.
Note: This summary excludes all advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the podcast's transcript. All timestamps correspond to the transcript provided and are used to reference notable quotes within the narrative.