Episode 686: Glen Helzer and the Children of Thunder (Part 2)

Summary

Morbid Podcast Episode 686: Glen Helzer and the Children of Thunder (Part 2)
Release Date: July 3, 2025
Host: Morbid Network | Wondery

---

Introduction to Part 2

In this gripping continuation of the Glen Helzer case, hosts Ash and Elena delve deeper into the sinister world of the "Children of Thunder." Building upon the foundations laid in Part 1, this episode unravels the intricate web of deceit, murder, and cult-like fanaticism that defined one of the most disturbing criminal cases in recent history.

---

Recap of Part 1

Before diving into the new developments, Ash provides a succinct recap of Part 1:

"We were talking about Glenn Taylor Helzer. Just talking about who he was, his life before all of this. We discussed the disappearance of Ivan and Annette Steinman, and we talked about the murders of Jennifer and James in Marin County." (08:24)

---

The Disappearance of the Steinmans

The episode picks up with investigators grappling to find Ivan and Annette Steinman after their minivan was found abandoned in Oakland, California, with no signs of the couple.

"A few days after their disappearance, police in Oakland, California, located their minivan... But there was no signs of Ivan and Annette, which is not good." (08:43)

Desperate for leads, the Concord Police Department made a public plea for information. This led to Vicki Sexton, a bank manager at Cal Fed, recognizing the Steinmans from a televised photo.

---

Vicki Sexton's Encounter with Jackie

Vicki's interaction with a mysterious woman named Jackie becomes a pivotal moment in the investigation.

"The customer was what she described as a larger blonde woman in a wheelchair dressed in a bright lime green pantsuit, large cowboy hat, and black driving gloves." (10:03)

Jackie presented two checks purportedly signed by Ivan Steinman, aiming to deposit funds into Selina Bishop's account for her medical expenses. However, red flags emerged:

"Vicki explained to Jackie that the situation was unusual and said she would need to call the Steinmans to get their approval." (14:06)

Suspicious of the circumstances, Vicki discovered that Jackie had exited through the front door, bypassing the wheelchair-accessible entrance, making the encounter highly questionable.

---

Discovery of Human Remains

A week later, Bolton Linden stumbled upon troubling evidence:

"On the afternoon of August 8, the manager of willow berm marina, Bolton Linden, was riding his jet ski... Inside the first bag, Linden discovered a human head and what he described as, 'a lot of body parts.'" (20:37)

Nine duffel bags containing human remains were recovered, two of which were identified as Ivan and Annette Steinman. The third body bore connections to Selina Bishop, linking the cases together.

---

Connection to the Marin County Murders

The plot thickens as investigators connect the Steinman disappearance to the earlier Marin County murders of Jennifer and James Gamble.

"Taylor and Justin, on the charge of possessing methamphetamine with intent to sell, he was found not guilty. Okay, so there's that for him." (23:32)

Glenn Taylor Helzer and his brother Justin were revealed to be central figures orchestrating the extortion and murders to fund their cult, the Children of Thunder.

---

The Children of Thunder Cult

The cult, led by Glenn Taylor Helzer, operated under the belief that they were divinely mandated to overthrow the Mormon Church and hasten the Second Coming of Christ. Their disturbing ideology included:

"1. He is already perfect. So he could do no wrong. 2. There was no such thing as right or wrong... 12. There was a higher person than Taylor. Jesus Christ, the son of the Father." (34:07)

These contradictory principles underscored their fanaticism and rationalized their heinous actions.

---

Trials and Sentencing

Following their arrests, the brothers faced significant legal battles:

• Don Godman, an associate, accepted a plea deal and received 38 years in prison.

• Glenn Taylor Helzer initially pleaded not guilty but later changed his plea to guilty, resulting in a death sentence.

• Justin Helzer maintained a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity and endured a prolonged trial, ultimately receiving the death penalty after being found sane during the murders.

"In the end, Jewett argued it was Taylor's quest for money and power over others that had really led to their death." (39:32)

Justin's tragic attempts to end his life in prison culminated in his death in 2013, highlighting the profound psychological toll of his actions.

---

Supreme Court Review

In 2024, Taylor's case was reviewed by the Supreme Court of California, which upheld his death sentence:

"Ultimately, the court upheld the lower court's ruling and the death sentence imposed by the jury." (41:57)

---

Conclusion and Reflections

Ash and Elena reflect on the harrowing impact of the Helzer brothers' actions:

"That's really heartbreaking... It's awful." (43:25)

They emphasize the innocence of the victims and the catastrophic consequences of Glenn Taylor Helzer's manipulative and delusional pursuits.

"He used. Which, like thank goodness there was a connection with, like, the Morgan Stanley stuff. Like this idiot was a financial advisor and then decided to go after his clients." (42:55)

The episode concludes with a somber reminder of the fragility of trust and the devastating effects of unchecked fanaticism.

---

Notable Quotes

• Elena: "It's a lot. And like, again, putting the money into an account of a person that Vicki had never heard of before." (14:30)

• Ash: "Me too. But I don't have good habits about, like, going to bed at a normal." (03:23)

• Elena: "I never want to change. It's who we are." (02:04)

• Ash: "That's wild." (42:26)

• Elena: "This is a strange case, bro." (16:52)

---

Final Thoughts

Episode 686 of Morbid masterfully navigates the complexities of the Glen Helzer case, intertwining meticulous research with candid reflections. By highlighting the fallibility of human judgment and the dangers of extremist ideologies, Ash and Elena provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of a case that is as tragic as it is intriguing.

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Stay Tuned:
For those intrigued by this episode, consider exploring previous installments for a full grasp of the Glen Helzer and Children of Thunder saga. Stay morbid, and keep exploring the darkest corners of true crime.

Transcript

[Ash]

Hey, weirdos, it's Ash here. Ready to share a little secret. Have you heard of Wondery Plus? With ad free episodes and one week early access, it's like having an all access pass to our lighthearted nightmare. So come join us on the dark side and try Wondery Plus.

[Elena]

Today.

[Ash]

You can join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or in Apple podcasts or Spotify.

[Elena]

You're listening to a morbid network podcast.

[Ash]

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[Maya Lau]

In 1920, a broke immigrant in Boston became one of America's richest, most infamous men practically overnight. He swindled the modern equivalent of a quarter billion dollars and etched his name into history as the mastermind behind one of the most notorious scams ever, the Ponzi Scheme. Hosted by Maya Lau and featuring award winning comedian and actor Sebastian Maniscalco. This is easy money. The Charles Ponzi Story, An Apple original PODC produced by At Will Media. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts.

[Elena]

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena.

[Ash]

I'm Ash.

[Elena]

And this is More Bid. More it.

[Ash]

Darling.

[Elena]

There it is. You know, one time we were like, we're going to stop singing. And then we said, we never will.

[Ash]

Yeah, it's just.

[Elena]

We never have. We will.

[Ash]

It's who we are.

[Elena]

Yeah. I wouldn't want you to change.

[Ash]

Thank you so much.

[Elena]

You're welcome.

[Ash]

I never will. Although I have changed a lot. I realized recently how old I am.

[Elena]

Yeah, I mean, we're all in that space.

[Ash]

You hit 29. I don't know what anyone's talking about anymore than these young kids saying words.

[Elena]

It's. It's a little blissful though.

[Ash]

It kind of is.

[Elena]

Cuz you're just like, I don't know what that is.

[Ash]

Yeah, I don't want to. It's such a difference though, from when we started this. But I was 21 when we started this.

[Elena]

That's Crazy. Crazy.

[Ash]

Which is. I was like, just about to turn 22, but yeah, that feels like a whole other person.

[Elena]

Entirely different people. What an evolution listening to this must be.

[Ash]

Yeah, people have said that before.

[Elena]

Like, they're like, wow.

[Ash]

I get comments a lot that are like, I feel like I've watched you grow up. I'm like, yeah, me too, man. I'm like, I feel like you all have as well.

[Elena]

But, yeah, it's crazy.

[Ash]

I stayed up really late last night and I'm feeling it today.

[Elena]

Yeah. You know the part of being old.

[Ash]

That's what I mean. Yeah. I used to stay up until like 2 o' clock in the morning and then come record and be like, yeah. No, I'm like, hey, weirdos, I have a headache and I didn't even drink anything.

[Elena]

And my sleep thing says I didn't get optimal sleep.

[Ash]

My aura, my Oura Ring sleep score is 68 today.

[Elena]

Yeah, we're not sponsored by Oura Ring.

[Ash]

But if you want to sponsor us.

[Elena]

Because we both have one. Ash convinced me to get one because I've been trying to, like, fix my sleep habits because I'm a good sleeper when I sleep.

[Ash]

Me too.

[Elena]

But I don't have good habits about, like, going to bed at a normal.

[Ash]

Hour, you know, like a regular sleep.

[Elena]

At the same time. And it's actually, it's helpful.

[Ash]

So beneficial to your body and like your hormone balance to go to sleep and wake up around the same time.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Even on your days off. Which. Yeah, on my days off, I'm out. I'm sleeping in. I'm staying up till like 2 o' clock in the morning to watch TV, but then I'm sleeping in.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. No.

[Ash]

And that's so bad. But then I feel. And then it's hard to, like, when you get back into the week, it's hard to recalibrate. Recal. Yeah.

[Elena]

Yeah. And I just need to, like. I've been wanting to, like, make sure. Because actually my kids came home and they have health class in their curriculum, obviously. And so shout out to their health teacher because they fucking love their health teacher. They do.

[Ash]

We're not gonna name them, but shout out to you.

[Elena]

That person is great. But they came home one day and they were like, mama, guess what I learned today? And I was like, oh, boy. What? And they were like, sitting is the new smoking. And I was like, whoa, I've been telling you that. I know. And that hit. Yeah, that hit. I was like, oh, they're like teaching that. Like, that's a real thing.

[Ash]

Now, and we sit so much.

[Elena]

We're podcasts because we're recording sitting here or taking meetings sitting down or we're researching sitting down. Or like, I'm writing sitting down. Like, I'm. I was like, oh, I gotta change this. So I think the. Again, not an ad.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

The aura ring, I think is helping. Well, like, just make me understand where my. My times of sediment living are. Sitting in the middle of my day so that I can kind of change it up and be like, you know what? Take a walk around the neighborhood. Yeah.

[Ash]

I just like it better than, like, some other things I've tried in the past, too, because this really does feel like an ad, but it's not.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

It stays charged, like, so much longer. Like, you know, we just.

[Elena]

It's not an ad.

[Ash]

We just like it a lot.

[Elena]

And this is an organic. Just, like, we dig it.

[Ash]

No, and it's also, like, not. It's like, it's an investment, but it's not crazy expensive for what you get out of it.

[Elena]

I think it's definitely. Yeah. But again, not an ad. So if you want to buy one, do it. If you don't, no skin off of my nose.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

But anyway, it's just organic. I'm trying to think of anything else fun that that has occurred.

[Ash]

We're planning a fairy birthday party for Ma.

[Elena]

Oh, yes. It's my mom's 79th birthday.

[Ash]

79 or 78?

[Elena]

79. Yeah.

[Ash]

You're sure?

[Elena]

I'm positive. Are you sure you know how old your mom is?

[Ash]

God damn. Yeah. I don't know how old my mom is.

[Elena]

30. 79. Damn. And we decided we're gonna throw her a total. She loves fairies. She's like a woodland creature. Like, she would live in a fantasy. She's always believed in fairies. She's always told me about fairies.

[Ash]

She used to take us out to talk to the fairies.

[Elena]

We made fairy gardens. All the good stuff. So I was like, she's so cool. We got to do a fairy theme. So I'm going full fairy theme for this, and I'm excited about it.

[Ash]

I'm making an enchanted fairy cake, which I will share with you when I make it. I'm going to be up to my ears in cake this weekend.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

It's also my nephew's third birthday, and I'm making his blippi cake.

[Elena]

Oh, fun.

[Ash]

So I got a fairy cake and a blippi cake going on fairy cake and blippi cake. And I just did a recital cake, too, which I made a Barbie cake. That was fun.

[Elena]

Your kid. That was amazing.

[Ash]

I've been caking in these streets.

[Elena]

True. But, yeah, that's.

[Ash]

That's what's up with us. Aura rings and fairy parties.

[Elena]

There's another thing I was about to.

[Ash]

Talk about, but I forgot to say.

[Elena]

Oh, this is just a quick little recommendation. I think it's coming out in September, but I'm reading Richard Chismar's new book that's coming out in September, and it's called Widow's Point, the Complete Haunting.

[Ash]

It sounds really good.

[Elena]

This. I mean, I'm gonna. I'll post it and everything like that, but guys, pre order this book when you can, because I'm telling you, this book is so good. It literally first time since reading Salem's Lot when I was like, literally 12 that I could not sleep one night. I couldn't fall asleep.

[Ash]

Oh, damn. If you felt that way, I'm gonna be scared.

[Elena]

I felt, like, super. It was. It's so spooky. Oh, I love. It's like, the perfect vibes for, like, you know, summerween vibes. And, like, you know, it's got. It's just got the right ghost story.

[Ash]

Just too freaked out.

[Elena]

Yeah. I'm telling you, it's called Widow's Point. It'll be out in September. Look for it again. This is also not an ad. These are just organic things that are real. Yeah. But. Yeah, that's. That's one of my little. This is what I'm doing right now.

[Ash]

I love that.

[Elena]

Yeah. And I guess we should get back into this story. Yeah.

[Ash]

I already told you everything I'm doing right now.

[Elena]

I told you all the things. Okay.

[Ash]

Yeah, I'm old. I don't have that much going on anymore.

[Elena]

None of us do.

[Ash]

All right, wait, but this is part two, and actually, I have something to say.

[Elena]

I have something to say.

[Ash]

I have something to say. We recorded the part one at, like, the end of the week. And usually, like, sometimes we'll record them, like, closer together.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I have been thinking about this case and wanting to know what happened.

[Elena]

I actually love to hear that.

[Ash]

Yeah. No, for real.

[Elena]

Yeah. This is a very interesting one. Really sad, but really interesting.

[Ash]

You left on such a cliffhanger.

[Elena]

Yeah, we. When we last spoke, we were talking about Glenn Taylor Helzer. Just talking about who he was, his life before all of this. We discussed the disappearance of Ivan and Annette Steinman, and we talked about the murders of Jennifer and James in Marin County.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

And we were just kind of backtracking to talk about. We were referring to him as Taylor, just to make it easy. But Glenn Taylor Hauser. So we talked about his marriage. We talked about how he was, like, super into the Mormon Church. He had a very radicalized grandfather that he lived with for a while, that he was feeling a lot of anxiety about not living up to the standards, A lot going on. He also happened to work at Morgan Stanley as a financial advisor. And that was something that was mentioned in the beginning as well.

[Ash]

It came full circle at the end.

[Elena]

It did. So, you know, that was just my little, quick little summary of the first part. But go listen to the first part if you haven't listened to it, because you're gonna be a little lost here. So in Concord now, after this, after the murders in Marin county, investigators continued to struggle to find any evidence that can indicate what the hell happened to Ivan and Annette Steinman. Yeah, at this point, they're just, like, lost. A few days after their disappearance, police in Oakland, California, located their minivan. It had been abandoned in a pretty bad part of the city. But there was no signs of Ivan and Annette, which is not good. Just desperate to make progress, a spokesperson for the Concord Police Department went on a local news program, or a few of them, really, and made a plea to the public. They were just asking for anyone to come forward if they knew anything that could help find Ivan and Annette. They were desperate at this point. Vicki Sexton, who was a manager of Cal Fed, was watching tv, happened to be watching TV the night that they made these pleasures and recognized the photo of Ivan and Annette immediately. In fact, just a few days before that, Vicki had a strange encounter with a customer at work that involved the Steinmans. Oh. So she called the Concord police and she reported everything she knew. Now, on the afternoon of August 1st, Vicki was working in her office when one of the tellers asked if she maybe had a minute to just speak with a customer. Vicki said she did, but she was not really expecting what was going to happen. According to Vicky, the customer was what she described as a larger blonde woman in a wheelchair dressed in a bright lime green pantsuit, large cowboy hat, and black driving gloves, which is.

[Ash]

Sounds like a motherfucking sleigh.

[Elena]

Interesting. The woman introduced herself as Jackie and immediately launched into a very strange, very convoluted story about two of Vicky's customers, Ivan and Annette Steinman. According to Jackie, the Steinman's granddaughter, Selina Bishop, was in desperate need of. Does that sound familiar? Selena Bishop was in desperate need of medical attention in San Diego, and the elderly couple had agreed to pay for the surgery, but they needed to put the money into Selena's account.

[Ash]

Uh huh.

[Elena]

At that point, Jackie presented two checks drawn on the Steinman's account. One in the amount of $67,000 and another in the amount of $33,000. Both had been signed, allegedly by Ivan Steinman.

[Ash]

That's weird.

[Sebastian Maniscalco]

You know how we all have that one friend that weirdly knows a ton about finances and is always down to help you with yours? Of course you don't. We're all lost and alone and it's terrifying. Well, not anymore. Meet Experian, your bff. And by that I mean big financial friend. I'm telling you, Experian is gonna be your go to app when it comes to handling finances like a grown up. And this big financial friend always brings the DTF energy down to fix things, that is. The Experian app finds ways to help you save, matches you with credit cards, and even shows you your FICO score when you're up for it. Bet your other BFFs can't bring it like that, huh? Anyway, it's easy to take this big financial friend along for the ride. Just download the Experian app and get started for free. Link up with your BFF and before you know it, you'll be finishing each other's finance goals. Results will vary. Credit offers, approvals and reward programs Based on FICO Score 8 model and subject to lender terms. Offers not available in all states. See experian.com for details.

[Abby]

Today is the worst day of Abby's life. The 17 year old cradles her newborn son in her arms.

[Elena]

They all saw how much I loved him.

[Ash]

They didn't have to take him from me.

[Abby]

Between 1945 and the early 1970s, families shipped their pregnant teenage daughters to maternity homes and forced them to secretly place their babies for adoption in hidden corners across America. It's still happening.

[Ash]

My parents had me locked up in the godparent home against my will. They worked with them to manipulate me and to steal my son away from from me.

[Abby]

The godparent home is the brainchild of controversial preacher Jerry Falwell, the father of the modern evangelical rite and the founder of Liberty University, where powerful men, emboldened by their faith, determine who gets to be a parent and who must give their child away. Follow Liberty Lost on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Elena]

To Vicky, who had worked at various banks for more than a decade, this was bizarre red flags. The Steinmans had been customers of the bank for years, like forever, and had always Done their own banking. Yeah. So it was pretty strange that they would just send a stranger to deposit the money into an account of a person she'd never heard of.

[Ash]

And a stranger in a lime green.

[Elena]

Pantsuit, no less, and cowboy hat.

[Ash]

And, like.

[Elena]

Yeah, it's like, in black driving glass. Like.

[Ash]

Like it's a little cray cray.

[Elena]

This is a lot to take in. And like, again, putting the money into an account of a person that Vicki had never heard of before. Yeah, like.

[Ash]

And Selena's not their granddaughter.

[Elena]

No. At all. So Vicki explained to Jackie that the situation was unusual and said she would need to call the Steinmans to get their approval. However, when they called the number on the account, no one answered. Weird. Jackie said, oh, they just moved and handed Vicki a different phone number. So Vicki placed the call to the new number and a man answered. But it did not sound like Ivan Steinman. It sounded like the voice of a young man. Right. Both Jackie and the man on the phone repeated that it was very important that the money get into the account and cleared as soon as possible as time was of the essence.

[Ash]

I'm like, guys, you gotta be a little less sus.

[Elena]

And also to, like, prey on people like, this is so disgusting.

[Ash]

To make Vicky feel like she's this poor girl.

[Elena]

She's probably die. Yeah, yeah. Vicki was sympathetic, obviously, and was feeling some type of way about this, but.

[Ash]

She has a job to do.

[Elena]

Yeah. She explained to Jackie that she needed to speak with the account manager at Morgan Stanley. But, like, this is too weird and.

[Ash]

This was probably way above her at this point.

[Elena]

So that call proved equally unsuccessful since Vicki didn't have the couple's Social Security numbers and nobody else could give them. She explained as much to Jackie, who said she would get the numbers and be back as soon as possible. Okay. As she wheeled herself out of the office and then out of the building, it occurred to Vicki that Jackie had left through the front door. The bank had no ramp at the front door, and customers using wheelchairs always entered via an elevator from the second floor parking lot. Leaving through the front door, Jackie would have had to navigate 16 stone steps down to the street, which would have been impossible. Pretty difficult. Dangerous for someone to do in a wheelchair. What the fuck? Impossible is probably the better word for it.

[Ash]

Also good on Vicky, though, for having, like, such a strange situation take place. Like, obviously that would be pretty confusing and you'd just be sitting there, like.

[Elena]

What the wherewithal to be eagle eyed about the whole thing and observe because.

[Ash]

Somebody else, frankly, like, I Might have.

[Elena]

Missed that because you might have just been, like, what the fuck just happened? And, like, not paid attention.

[Ash]

Yeah, good on her.

[Elena]

Yeah. Vicki Sexton's story connected the Steinman's case now to the murders in Marin County.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

Because Selena is Jennifer's daughter.

[Ash]

This is a strange case, bro.

[Elena]

And now those two cases are also connected to the missing persons case of Selina Bishop, because we don't know where she is. Right, right, right. But it was only the beginning of a much str story. Somehow I had a feeling. Back in Marin county, sheriff's officers had received a warrant for Justin Helzer's gun. Justin is Glenn Taylor Hauser's brother.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

Which they suspected had been used in the murders of Jennifer and James a few days earlier because he had recently bought a 9 millimeter.

[Ash]

9 millimeter.

[Elena]

When they arrived at the small house on Saddlewood Court, detectives were first met at the door by Justin, who let them enter. Once inside, they also met Justin's brother, Glenn Taylor Helzer, and Justin's girlfriend, Dawn Godman. Now, Justin was presented with the warrant, but he claimed he no longer had the gun. No matter what, they were gonna search the house, so they did. And they found a number of surprising and very alarming things. Oh, good. In addition to a large amount of Ecstasy found in the home, they also discovered rope, leg irons. A Taser. Yeah, a Taser. And several documents that appeared to belong to Ivan Steinman.

[Ash]

Oh.

[Elena]

Based on the discovery of the drugs alone, investigators placed the homeowners, Justin and Taylor, under arrest. But before they could get the handcuffs on Taylor, he broke away and ran wearing only his underwear.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

So the team of investigators spread out across the neighborhood trying to search for him, but he didn't appear to be anywhere. In the meantime, Taylor found himself in the backyard of a neighbor who spotted him in the yard. Thinking the young man was, you know, just one of her son's friends, she opened the door and was like, do you need help, friend? Like, what's going on? As soon as he was inside the house, he grabbed a large kitchen knife and took the woman hostage. Oh, talk about people never help. People after could never help. Like, just lock your door. Lock your door and go about your business and call someone. Yep. After cutting his hair in their kitchen and stealing some of her son's clothing, Taylor left the house and began to run again.

[Ash]

Without her now.

[Elena]

Without her now. Okay.

[Ash]

What the.

[Elena]

He hadn't made it more than a few hundred feet when he ran straight into two sheriff's deputies who were able to take him into custody without incident.

[Ash]

Dude.

[Elena]

So went through all that just to run straight into two sheriff's, dumbass. So that afternoon, an announcement was made about the rest of the helzers and don. But detectives were careful not to reveal too much information to the press, as they often are, including whether Taylor was selina bishop's boyfriend. Because, remember back, that's who we're connecting him to, previously known as Jordan. Remember, we found out he was being referred to as Jordan? Found out Once they figured out who he was and they looked into it, it is Glenn taylor house. It is. Okay. That all changed later that afternoon, though, when a horrible discovery was made in sacramento county.

[Ash]

Oh, no. Is it Selena?

[Elena]

On the afternoon of August 8, the manager of willow berm marina, Bolton Linden, was riding his jet ski on the sacramento river delta when he spotted three large duffel bags floating in the water. Lyndon dragged the bags back to shore because he was thinking, they're, you know, I don't know what's in these. They're duffel bags, but maybe something inside will tell me who these belong to. Yeah. So we opened them up. Inside the first bag, Linden discovered a human head and what he described as, quote, a lot of body parts. Oh, Christ. Lyndon ran to the nearest phone immediately and reported it to the authorities, who arrived at the scene very quickly. Lyndon's wife Rachel, said it was creepy. When they lifted up the canvas bag, you could see blood mixed with the water. We knew right away this was trouble. Oh, wow.

[Ash]

And he was just out on his jet.

[Elena]

Yeah. Just having a nice time. Yeah. Investigators assembled a large dive team, and by the end of the day, they had recovered nine duffel bags. What the. All containing human remains wrapped individually in plastic.

[Ash]

Oh, so is this everybody?

[Elena]

So the duffel bags themselves had been slit along the sides, probably to allow water inside and sink the bags. Yeah. In the statement to the press, Sacramento county sheriff sergeant Dennis arnall said, this is an area that lends itself to the disposing of evidence of bodies. It's remote, it's dark, and if you want to dump something here, you're not likely to get caught.

[Ash]

Maybe word that differently.

[Elena]

Maybe don't tell everybody that.

[Ash]

Yeah. Maybe don't make that public comment unless.

[Elena]

You'Re gonna make that now a heavily guarded area. For, according to Arnall, it was most likely that the bags had been dropped off the side of the Highway 12 bridge about a mile and a half away, and they floated to where they were discovered. It didn't take long to identify two of the bodies as Those of Ivan and Annette Steinman. Oh, that's awful. But the third body was more challenging to identify. It appeared that a portion of skin had been removed from the shoulder of the third victim. Which was where Selina Bishop was known to have had a tattoo.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

But detectives didn't want to jump to conclusions, of course. Of course. Still, the discovery of the bodies broke the case open, and investigators were finally willing to disclose some more facts about the case to the press, including that the man previously referred to as Jordan was, in fact, Glenn Taylor Hauser. Finally, when the mug shots were shown to Vicki Sexton from Cal Fed, she confirmed that the woman who introduced herself as Jackie was Don Godman. Yeah.

[Ash]

Not wheelchair bound.

[Elena]

Nope. From the moment they were arrested, Taylor refused to speak to police about anything. But when the discoveries of the bodies were made and the identification of Selina Bishop's remains, war was made. A short time later, Don and Justin, now facing very serious charges, suddenly began cooperating.

[Ash]

Imagine that.

[Elena]

Based on their account of events, the entire scheme sounded like a fairly straightforward extortion and murder case. While still working at Morgan Stanley years earlier, Taylor had been the Steinman's account manager. Wow.

[Ash]

What a piece of shit.

[Elena]

And knew they had a decent amount of money saved in their account. On the night of July 31, Taylor and Justin visited the Steinmans at their house, where they were spotted by the couple's neighbor, who thought they were Mormon missionaries. That night, they kidnapped the couple and brought them back to Justin and Taylor's home, where, with the help of Don, they tortured them for days in order to get them to sign the checks that Don eventually tried to deposit into the account in Selena's name at Cal Fed. What the. Once they got what they wanted from the Steinmans, they murdered the couple. According to the coroner's report, Annette's cause of death was a large knife wound across her throat. Oh, and Ivan died from blunt force trauma.

[Ash]

And these people just lived like a beautiful life together. Had children, were enjoying their retirement.

[Elena]

Yeah, and Ivan had died from blunt force trauma, apparently after Taylor had repeatedly beat the man's head against the floor. This is an elderly couple.

[Ash]

This is horrific.

[Elena]

Now, according to Justin and Dawn, Selina Bishop had nothing to do with the kidnapping, murder, or extortion plot. Taylor had met Selina a few months earlier, and recognizing that she was somewhat naive and eager to please, he lured her into the scheme by pretending to have a romantic interest in her.

[Ash]

That's so fucked up.

[Elena]

Selina's function in the plot was basically limited to opening the bank account in her name. Yeah, but she was under a totally different, like what she thought was actually happening here was. Had nothing to do with this.

[Ash]

Yeah, she thought she was just helping.

[Elena]

Him as like, because his ex wife, like, he didn't want his ex wife to get like his new money or whatever. Yeah.

[Lindsey Graham]

Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of wondery's podcast American scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U. S. History, events that have shaped who we are as a country and that continue to define the American experience. American scandal tells marquee stories about American politics, like the break in at the Watergate hotel, an event that led to the downfall of a president and raised questions about the future of American democracy. We go behind the scenes looking at devastating financial crimes like the fraud committed at Enron and Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme. And we tell stories of complicated public figures like Edward Snowden and Monica Lewinsky, people who found themselves thrust into the spotlight and who spurred debates about the future of the country. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts, you can listen ad free on the Amazon music or wondery app.

[Elena]

Now again, she intended it was just going to be to hide that money from his ex wife. But once her function in the plot had been served, Selina was killed with a single blow to the head from a hammer.

[Ash]

Holy, these guys are brutal.

[Elena]

When it came to the deaths of Selena's mother Jennifer and her boyfriend Jim, their connection was even more tenuous. And their deaths some like somehow, even an escalated version of tragic. Taylor had gone out of his way to avoid meeting Selina's friends and family, specifically because he knew there was a chance they could link him back to her once he committed the murders. Right. He had been mostly successful in this, but then Jennifer was determined to meet him and had managed to do so about a month before the murders and a few times before because, remember, she stopped by. Right. Knowing that she could easily trace him back to her daughter, Taylor and Justin went to Selena's apartment in the early morning hours of August 3rd. There they shot and killed Jennifer in order to prevent her from identifying him later. Wow. Jim Gamble was murdered simply because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Ash]

That's horrific.

[Elena]

Based on the statements from John, Don and Justin, it was, as investigators basically assumed, an extortion and murder plot. Like, very like cut and dry. The problem, though, was that while the evidence collected at Taylor and Justin's home, including significant blood evidence, by the way, matched their statements, detectives still didn't have the physical Evidence inconclusively linking the three suspects to the victims. Fortunately, that all changed when detectives in Marin county received a call from a woman named Deborah McClanahan. As it turned out, McClanahan had exactly what investigators were looking for and so much more.

[Ash]

Tell me everything.

[Elena]

Like Dawn, Debra met Justin and Taylor several years earlier when they were all attending the LDS Church in Danville. Although she had been raised in the Mormon Church, Deborah considered herself to be more of, like, a free spirit and associated as much more of, like, she decided, like, being a Wiccan in, like, the New age movement.

[Ash]

Hell, yeah.

[Elena]

She was more into that than she was the church retweet. Not long after meeting, Deborah began a brief affair with Taylor, which soon came to involve dawn and Justin. From time to time, when she heard about the murders and, you know, read that investigators were asking for the public's help in finding more information, Deborah came forward with what proved to be key pieces that brought the case to focus. According to Debra, about a week earlier, Taylor and Justin had visited her apartment and asked if she could store a small safe there for a few weeks.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

Always no. No, period. Knowing that Taylor occasionally dealt drugs, she assumed he was keeping his product inside and didn't want it to be found.

[Ash]

You know what they say about assumptions.

[Elena]

Yeah. In light of the murder charges, however, she thought it would be best to hand the safe over to authorities, which is very smart. She later said, I didn't feel good about having that safe in my house. It took some time, but eventually detectives were able to get it open. And inside, they found the Steinman's photo identification and financial records and the 9 millimeter handgun used to kill Jennifer and Jim Gamble. Stop it.

[Ash]

Can you imagine realizing that you had all of that in your possession?

[Elena]

You had a murder weapon in your possession and had no idea?

[Ash]

That's why you don't help people.

[Elena]

No, don't help people.

[Ash]

That is the perfect example of why you don't help people.

[Elena]

The evidence was exactly what the investigators needed to secure an easy conviction and hope they might even be able to get the accused to accept a plea deal. But it turned out that Debra had a lot more to say about Taylor Helzer than anyone expected. Deborah McClanahan confirmed that the Steinmans had probably been killed for their money, but the money was just a means to a much more elaborate and bizarre end. Although Taylor, Justin, and Dawn didn't trust Debra enough to tell her all of their plans, they did impart some details on her. Oh. According to Deborah, the group who referred to themselves in their movements as the children of thunder. Stop believed that Taylor was a prophet who communicated directly with God.

[Ash]

God's never going to tell you to murder people.

[Elena]

No, he's not.

[Ash]

I mean, at least in my opinion, he's not. I feel like. I feel like that's not your God being an awesome God.

[Elena]

That would know. Exactly. That would. That's like.

[Ash]

And like your God's supposed to be an awesome God.

[Elena]

The actual. There's a whole song.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And that's the opposite.

[Ash]

The only reason I know that's a song is because I listen to Sup Sexy Unique podcast and they put a bonus episode out the other day that our pod is an awesome pod. And they sang the song.

[Elena]

I love it. But no, that's not. Your God is not going to tell you to kill people. No, that's just not going to happen. No. So they believed, though, that Taylor had been instructed by God to travel back to Brazil where he would convert others to his cause and train an army of Brazilian orphans and to become assassins working on the group's behalf.

[Ash]

That's some drug fueled thought.

[Elena]

That's also.

[Ash]

That's some drug fueled thought.

[Elena]

Things are always so fucking complicated. Yeah. Nothing in life needs to be this complicated. Just go about your business. Stop worrying about other people. Stop doing bullshit to other people. What are we doing?

[Ash]

Don't train Brazilian children to become Brazilian orphans. Orphans. Yeah. What the fuck? What the fuck?

[Elena]

What the fuck is correct. The ultimate purpose of the Children of Thunder was for Taylor to lead them in overthrowing the Mormon Church in what they referred to as the Days of Thunder or the Second Coming of Christ.

[Ash]

Guys, the Mormon Church is fucking huge. It's.

[Elena]

You're not overthrown.

[Ash]

It's omnipotent.

[Elena]

All you have to do. Here's a great way to not deal with the Mormon Church. Don't deal with the Mormon Church. Yeah, just leave. That's the end of it.

[Ash]

I know it's hard to leave the Mormon Church. I'm not making it. I'm not making light of that.

[Elena]

But it's much harder to come up with an entire murder plot and go to prison for murder charges. And again, we're not saying it's easy to get out of any religion.

[Ash]

No, never.

[Elena]

I myself have not been in a religion that I had to tear myself out of or deal with the consequences of that. So just know that right now there's no reason to say it. Cause we know it. Nobody's saying that. No, no, no. It's awful. I can't imagine. Yeah, but if you're coming up with is it harder to do that or to travel to Brazil and train an army of Brazilian orphans to overthrow a church?

[Ash]

Yeah, I would say the latter.

[Elena]

Or is it on the same level? I don't know, but either way it's hard.

[Ash]

I would say the latter. No pun intended.

[Elena]

No pun intended. And that's. It's no matter what. This is very over complicated. And it's. And this is very not okay.

[Ash]

It's also just very like this guy was like staying up all night.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Doing drugs, doing ecstasy, like doing crazy shit. I'm like, this is not good thinking. This is not like solid thinking.

[Elena]

This is not clear thinking. This is not any of that. And it's like, it's so scary. This kind of stuff. It is scary. It's like, where do you get to that point like that.

[Ash]

It's also just, I can't imagine like my parents being killed for that purpose.

[Elena]

And finding that out. Yeah.

[Ash]

After they lived their whole lives and were just enjoying retirement, poor Selena just thinks she meets this nice guy and.

[Elena]

It'S wants to help him of this guy to use his former job as like a financial advisor to do this. Because I'm like, first of all, you're a piece of shit. And two, you're so fudgeing easily traceable.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

Of course they're going to connect it back to you.

[Ash]

But that's why it's so you got.

[Elena]

To be fudgeing dumb.

[Ash]

That's why it's so obvious that it's not clear thinking. Like he thought he was this mastermind. I'm like, no, you're a fucking idiot.

[Elena]

No, they can easily trace that back to you. You had access.

[Ash]

Thankfully you're dumb right away.

[Elena]

Someone's going to trace it back to. Wow. It's ridiculous.

[Ash]

I was wondering where the Children of Thunder came into this.

[Elena]

Yeah, here it is.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Elena]

So the group functioned basically like, you know, your run of the mill cult. The Children of Thunder was like, you know, most cults that you hear about in the sense that it's built around one single very charismatic, very bullshitty leader. You know, always in their case, Taylor developed a list of beliefs that, you know, they were all supposed to adhere to. And again, very cult like behavior, which he referred to as the 12 principles of magic.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Elena]

I'm not sure where magic comes into this whole thing, but here we are. I can paraphrase them here and please do. Dave helped me very much paraphrasing these because. Wow. One, he is already perfect. So he could do no wrong. Okay. 2. There was no such thing as right or wrong. No wrong. We're contradicting ourselves already. 3. He was all powerful and the creator of everything in his life.

[Ash]

So then he created the Mormon Church. And you don't have to overthrow it.

[Elena]

Yeah. 4. Life was always right. I thought there was no.

[Ash]

There's no right or wrong concept of.

[Elena]

Right or wrong, but okay, life was always right and they should embrace all the results of it.

[Ash]

This whole thing is contradictory.

[Elena]

All the results of life they created for themselves.

[Ash]

But I thought God created it.

[Elena]

6. We believe nothing and perceive the world without fear.

[Ash]

Then why are you making rules if you don't believe anything?

[Elena]

7. Our perceptions are always right. Okay, I thought there was no concept of right and wrong. 8. Unconditional Fearless love was the most profound in the universe.

[Ash]

Overthrowing a church doesn't sound like unconditional love.

[Elena]

No. And killing people doesn't really make me think you're a loving person. 9. Spirit knew everything. 10. One gives total control by losing control.

[Ash]

Oh, that's just cults.

[Elena]

11. What goes around comes around.

[Ash]

I believe that karma almost like. So you're gonna kill three people? Excuse me.

[Elena]

That's coming around, my friend. Yeah. 12. There was a higher person than Taylor. Jesus Christ, the son of the Father.

[Ash]

Isn't that just the Bible?

[Elena]

Pretty sure. I don't know. I don't know. So there's.

[Ash]

Those are wild ass principles that literally contradict themselves from the second. They start from the start.

[Elena]

Right from the jump. Like, hello, like starting line. Just.

[Ash]

There's no right or wrong. I'm right.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

Okay, sounds good.

[Elena]

According to Deborah McClanahan, in the weeks before the murders, Taylor and Justin had tried to find the money to fund their movement from family members and associates and had wildly been unsuccessful. When they failed at that, Taylor began devising a new plan where he would just extort the money from his former Morgan Stanley clients, Ivan and Annette Steinman. And from there, the scheme continued to spiral out of control until it came to include killing Selina Bishop, Jennifer Valerian and Jim Gamble. Okay. All to fund the Children of Thunder and their belief that they could somehow bring the Second Coming and overthrow the Mormon Church. Okay, now. Now that they had, you know, the full story, investigators took everything to the District Attorney who started drafting up plea agreements.

[Ash]

And the District Attorney said, what the fuck is all this?

[Elena]

What have you brought me? But before they could put any deal on the table, Don and Justin decided to stop cooperating with the investigation.

[Ash]

Okay, cool, so then you don't get a Deal.

[Elena]

In terms of Don Godman, detectives decided she had been too heavily. Heavily manipulated by Taylor and would require psychological deprogramming before her testimony could be of any value. Oh, wow.

[Ash]

Yeah, this runs deep.

[Elena]

Taylor and Justin, on the other hand, decided they would rather take their chances with trial. Good luck, boys.

[Ash]

Good.

[Elena]

With all the delays and motions put forth by Justin and Taylor's lawyers, nearly five years passed before anyone saw the inside of a courtroom.

[Ash]

Five years. That's a long time. We've seen delays, but five years is wild.

[Elena]

In that time, the bizarre claims of. Because then it started coming like it took on a life of its own. The terms, like the. The phrases. Wiccan sex cults. Oh, yeah, the satanic rituals all fueled the local tabloids about five years. Like, just went nuts.

[Ash]

Who's gonna ever get sick of that?

[Elena]

Exactly. At the same time, Don Godman had changed her mind and accepted a plea deal from the district attorney.

[Ash]

What'd she get?

[Elena]

In exchange for a guilty plea? In agreeing to testify against Taylor and Justin, she would receive a sentence of 38 years in prison. Okay.

[Ash]

I'm glad she still gets a lot of time.

[Elena]

25 years for the murders and 13 for the extortion and the additional crimes. Good. In a pretrial hearing leading up to Justin's trial, Dawn told the story of the murders and their plan to extort the Steinmans in graphic detail. She said, he looked at me and he said, spirit says you get to know this isn't a dream. And then he cut her throat talking about Annette. Yeah, dawn said that's what dawn told investigators. She also confirmed that the extortion and murders were all part of Taylor's plan to raise $1 million to form a self help group called Transform America, the goal of which was to, quote, hasten Christ's return to earth.

[Ash]

No, thank you.

[Elena]

We just want to. We want to speed him up.

[Ash]

No, thank you.

[Elena]

Now, maybe sensing which way the winds were blowing, just before the trial was about to begin, Taylor Helzer changed his ple from not guilty to guilty on all counts.

[Ash]

Probably smart.

[Elena]

Yeah. And he was going to be sentenced to death. Justin, on the other hand, maintained a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, and the case went to trial in the spring of 2004. Over the course of the six weeks, the prosecution called more than 100 witnesses and presented a mountain of evidence linking Justin Helzer to the murders of all five people. Not as a passive member of the group, but as a very active participant in their death as well. In his opening Statement to the jury, Deputy District Attorney Hal Jewett presented what he called a tale of religious fanaticism, replete with declarations of war on Satan and dreams of a utopian paradise. Huh. Imagine that being part of the opening statement.

[Ash]

I would be locked.

[Elena]

I would be sat for, like, let's go. Yeah. And that would be. That's what he presented as their motive. But in the end, Jewett argued it was Taylor's quest for money and power over others that had really led to their death. And he couldn't have achieved that without Justin's help. On June 15, 2004, the jury deliberated. After just two days, they returned five guilty verdicts for each charge of first degree murder faced by Justin. Also, each charge included special circumstances on multiple counts of murder, kidnapping, robbery, burglary, and extortion. The jury also determined that Justin was sane when he committed the murders, and he received the death penalty as well. So him and his brother. On the charge of possessing methamphetamine with intent to sell, he was found not guilty. Okay, so there's that for him. Justin and Taylor were sent to San Quentin to serve their Sentences, where in 2010, Justin attempted to end his life by stabbing two ballpoint pens into his eyes.

[Ash]

He thought that was gonna end his life.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like that's just gonna really fucking fuck up your eyes.

[Elena]

It was unsuccessful. Did result in blindness in both eyes and brain trauma, though. Oh. So I guess, you know, I guess that one tenant was true. What goes around comes around, I suppose.

[Ash]

Giving oedipus.

[Elena]

No. In 2013, Justin Helzer made a second attempt to end his life by hanging. And that time, he was successful. In a statement to the press, Justin's former defense lawyer, Daniel Cook, told a reporter he was, quote, sorry, but not surprised to learn that Justin's profound and apparently progressive mental illness had manifested itself one last time. Yeah. Now, in 2024, Taylor's case came up for automatic review by the Supreme Court of the State of California, in which he argued that he should have been allowed to withdraw his guilty plea and should receive a trial based on his claim that officers had violated his Fourth amendment rights when they seized items from his home, and if they hadn't had that evidence, he wouldn't have pleaded guilty. Okay. After considering his argument, the justices wrote, quote, we reject defendants claims and conclude blanket suppression of the evidence is not warranted. The court further concluded that probable cause existed, the warrant was not a general warrant, and the search did not exceed the scope of the warrant.

[Ash]

Fantastic.

[Elena]

Ultimately, the court upheld the lower court's ruling and the death sentence imposed by the jury.

[Ash]

Well, there you have it.

[Elena]

And that is it. He's still.

[Ash]

He's on death row.

[Elena]

Yep. He's on death row. His brother is dead. Yeah. And dawn is still serving out her sentence.

[Ash]

All I can think about is ball pen. Ballpoint pens in my eyes.

[Elena]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[Ash]

That's gnarly.

[Elena]

So that is Glenn Taylor Helzer and the Children of Thunder.

[Ash]

That's a wild story that I had never heard even a single detail about. It's previously wild.

[Elena]

Yeah. I actually didn't know about this either.

[Ash]

That's crazy.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And really sad. I feel so sorry.

[Elena]

Completely innocent people. That's the thing. Like, completely innocent had nothing to do with any of this.

[Ash]

Innocent people and like, people who are so tenuously connected to this.

[Elena]

God, yes.

[Ash]

Fucking crazy motherfucker.

[Elena]

He just. He used. Which, like, thank goodness there was a connection with, like, the Morgan Stanley stuff. Like this idiot was a. Was a financial advisor and then decided to go after his clients. Like, hello. Boom. Connection right there.

[Ash]

Yeah, that's wild.

[Elena]

Thank goodness he was dumb as for that.

[Ash]

And he was seen, too.

[Elena]

Yeah, he was seen.

[Ash]

Shout out to neighbors doing neighborly right.

[Elena]

That's why you want a good neighborhood.

[Ash]

Not a good Samaritan. Sheridans, though, who, like, did their part here.

[Elena]

Vicki coming forward. Deborah.

[Ash]

Deborah at the end being like, whoa.

[Elena]

What the Was this?

[Ash]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Elena]

That's a.

[Ash]

That's a crazy.

[Elena]

And Selena being totally duped by this guy. I know.

[Ash]

That's really heartbreaking.

[Elena]

It's awful. Oh, yeah. And now. And Jennifer had to die because she cared about her daughter and who she was seeing.

[Ash]

Right.

[Elena]

Like, that's. And Jim just James just being there. Yeah. Like that all of it is so avoidant. Like, what an this.

[Ash]

Yeah, he's awful.

[Elena]

The Hellzers are. And Don like all of them. Yeah.

[Ash]

Sometimes I do believe in the death penalty. And this is one of those instances.

[Elena]

Yeah, he's the worst. Wow.

[Ash]

Well, we hope you keep listening, though.

[Elena]

And we hope you keep it weird.

[Ash]

But I'm as weird as this man's because what the.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Truly dang.

[Elena]

Dang.

[Ash]

Sam Sat. If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.