Grady (1:59)

And I'm Grady.

Ash (2:00)

And this right here is Morbid. And this is a very special episode of Morbid. We have Grady Hendrix on the show.

Grady (2:23)

That's me.

Elena (2:24)

Thank you for coming. This is amazing.

Grady (2:26)

Oh, yeah, no, I'm always happy to talk. I. You know, talking is my preferred mode of existence. If I'm not talking, I'm not sure I exist.

Elena (2:34)

You're really good at talking. Yeah. You're a great talker.

Grady (2:36)

Thank you well, I'm in the middle of trying to finish a book right now, so all I do is sit in silence and hate myself. So it's nice to talk and not think about my shortcomings.

Ash (2:46)

Do you find that relatable, Elena?

Elena (2:48)

I was gonna say that is like the best way to describe writing a book. Sitting in silence and hating yourself. Yeah, I find I do that often.

Ash (2:56)

I do that when I'm not writing a book.

Elena (2:57)

So. Yeah. Hey, there you go. You know, we can all be there.

Ash (3:00)

We've all been there.

Grady (3:01)

Fun.

Elena (3:01)

Anytime it is, anybody can do it. But like Ash just said, I mean, Grady is a best selling author, journalist, screenwriter, podcaster, and absolutely iconic public speaker.

Grady (3:15)

Thank you.

Elena (3:16)

You really are. Because we went to. You're incredible at it. Because we went to your event at Unlikely Story for Witchcraft for Wayward Girls. Oh, yeah, yeah. Me, Mikey and Ash went.

Ash (3:28)

It was so fun.

Elena (3:29)

That event was such a blast. It's such a unique book event. If anybody has not gone to Grady's events, I strongly encourage you to, because it's unlike any other book event I.

Ash (3:41)

Think you're ever gonna be at.100%.

Grady (3:44)

Well, you know, I just figure if people actually leave the house for a book event, there should be, you know, it should be fun. And they should be assured that indeed, I'm the stupidest person in the room, not them, and they can just relax.

Elena (3:59)

That's what it's all about. Because it's so true. I was thinking the same thing. I was like, people are leaving their house and they definitely get something out of leaving their house for your events, for sure.

Grady (4:08)

I mean, there's so much you can do. I mean, there's Netflix, there's the fridge, there's sex. Like, there's so much more in the house. How do you like leaving? It has to be at least marginally worthwhile.

Elena (4:18)

Yeah, you really gotta dangle a carrot.

Grady (4:20)

Yeah.

Elena (4:21)

If you're going to get me out of my house. But also, your. Your event was so like, it struck me by how well researched that entire dissertation was. It was incredible. I feel like I learned so much during that.

Grady (4:36)

Well, no, I appreciate it. You know, it's funny, when I'm writing a book, I do research, but most of my research is really nuts and bolts and logistical. Like, oh, you know, what was on TV in 1970 in this part of Florida on a Thursday night. And then I do all the fun research, like witches. Like, let's go down every rabbit hole at the end when the book's done, when I'm putting The show together. And that's really kind of a reward to myself because I'm a research nerd. Yeah, but that's really fun to be able to just go, like, I don't have an end point in sight. Right. I'm just like, I don't need, like, what's a cool spell or something spell, like. Or how can I go, you know, it's just like, what? Okay, sure. You know, let's just run down this rabbit hole as far as it'll go.

Elena (5:20)

That's what it feels like. It feels like just being able to just sprint down whatever rabbit hole you want to sprint down. Because it's true. When you're researching just, like, the logistics, there has to be an end. Because that happens to me sometimes with research, with writing, I'll start going down a tangent, and then I'm like, no, no, no, stop. You have to come back here. Because then I'm like, three hours in and I've written, like, four words.

Grady (5:43)

Yeah, well, it's also. The thing that's also really fun about the witch show is I. I'm sort of a history nerd. And I can't remember who said this, but someone once said, you know, people like kids, kids now, they think they invented sex. And so when they read something that's sort of like, you know, like, kind of horny from, like, the 19th century, they're all like, heavens to Betsy. And to me, being able to go back to people in the 19th century or early 20th century and make them seem present and vital and not dumb dumbs. Like the who whole part about Sylvia Townsend Warner and writing Lolly Willows and this sort of boom in the 20s of women really embracing Satanism and witchcraft as these sort of, like, avenues for liberation. Like, I'm not even sure you'd find that in the 80s, you know, or the 90s. Really.

Elena (6:38)

No, definitely.

Ash (6:39)

Definitely not. Yeah, with satanic panic and all that.

Grady (6:41)

Oh, yeah, exactly. So it's really fun to sort of go back and, like, I don't know, make these people who can often get written off as being fuddy duddy, dusty, old people, like, alive, you know, vital.

Elena (6:53)

Because you always see, like, you know, obviously there's no, like, pictures of people from really long ago. So you always see these, like, paintings or imagery of people, and they always.

Ash (7:02)

Look, like, very serious and, like, super stuffy.

Elena (7:04)

Yeah. And it's like when you start thinking of them doing, like, everyday human things and having, like, human urges, and then it, like. It's such a different perspective. And I think you Did a really good job, like, giving that to the audience.

Grady (7:17)

Thanks.

Elena (7:17)

You're welcome.

Grady (7:18)

Yeah. There's a quote Alan Moore gave the guy who writes comic books when he did this Victorian Jack the Ripper thing called From Hell, where he was giving an interview, and he said, you know, if you could actually teleport yourself back to 1888, you would look around and it would look like science fiction to you. You wouldn't be able to speak the language. You wouldn't understand the measurements. You wouldn't know what people were saying to you. You would be in a completely al planet. And, you know, it's like one of those things where I'm always thinking, you know, if you go back to the 18th, I mean, I would say 19th, maybe even later. Everyone was drunk just pretty much all the time. Like, you know, the amount of booze they were packing away on a daily basis, like, they were just always making the worst decision.

Ash (8:03)

Yeah, they were really going for it back then.

Grady (8:05)

Yeah.

Elena (8:05)

They were just, like, living through the worst decisions as well. So they're probably like, we might as well just be, like, lit through all of this.

Ash (8:12)

It was a coping mechanism, really.

Elena (8:14)

Like, everything's smelly and dirty. We might as well just not remember.

Grady (8:17)

We might as well just, like. Yeah, just put a happy face on this.

Elena (8:20)

Yeah, let's go. It's. You answered one of my questions, because I was going to ask if you had to do, like, a whole separate version of research for the events that you do for writing.

Grady (8:32)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elena (8:33)

That's what I figured.

Ash (8:34)

It makes sense.

Elena (8:35)

But, yeah, that's interesting to hear. And we loved it. We raved about it afterwards. But moving into another one of your amazing works that we're obsessed with, we loved My Best Friend's Exorcism. I think so many people love that book. Thank you. You are one of my favorite authors of all time. Very nice of you, and we love all your books. But our listeners loved when we did My Best Friend's Exorcism for. We did, like, an audiobook club episode where we covered it, and people loved it. They just went nuts about it. They loved how you were able to tell the story from a female perspective and really get into the frame. You're a really gifted storyteller, obviously, and we just want to know, like, where did this all start? Like, where did your storytelling begin? Were you, like, a horror guy forever or where did this all start?

Grady (9:27)

No, I mean, horror wasn't really my thing as a kid. I. I found the book covers kind of gross. Like, they really put me off. And so, like, I read Clive Barker and Stephen King. Like anyone would those Alfred Hitchcock treasury editions that used to be in every, like, middle school library. But for me, horror was movies. And so my friends and I would rent, you know, tapes from the video store. Because I grew up in the 80s, I miss video stores and, and, you know, watch this stuff together. So it was always like a social activity, you know, to me, horror was always. There was always a social component. Like, I think of movies like City of the Living Dead, the Fulci film, or Doom, Asylum or Evil Dead 2 and Reanna. Those movies are completely in my mind, linked to how I saw them and who I saw them with. And I can remember who was sitting where. Not because I have some great memory, but just because those were, you know, big events for me. You know, like seeing those movies for the first time with, you know, Alan and Aaron and Adam Richards and Matt Gibson and these, like, you know, that was huge in terms of writing and telling stories for me. I'm. I'm from South Carolina and I think most families, I mean, people say it's Southern families, but I don't know, maybe it's every family. No, I take that back, actually, because my wife's Canadian and I'll tell stories about my family and they will say, oh, my goodness, your family's so crazy. You know, we don't have any stories like this in our family. And I'm like, the more, you know, I've been married for 30 something years. I'm like, yes. I don't say this, but I'm like, yes, you do. You definitely have these stories. You just don't tell them or you.

Ash (11:04)

Tell them some of them.

Grady (11:07)

Yeah. And my family, it's funny, my parents got divorced when I was about 13 and I've got three older sisters. And we were very much posing in the matching outfits kind of family. And then when my parents got divorced, it was this idea of, well, we're not perfect anymore and there's no way to make it look like we're perfect. And this was the 80s when, early 80s, this was 84 or 5, when you knew people who were divorced but everyone wasn't divorced quite yet. Now it's like everyone's.

Elena (11:37)

Yes.

Grady (11:38)

So for us, for my sisters and I, we never talked about it, but it was this sort of liberation, which was. We'll say anything now. Like there is literally nothing you can. No story you can't tell because the alternative is really horrible. We did that. That wasn't so great. And even though I think it really frustrated my mom, her, I think she was okay with it to some extent, and her way of dealing with it was just to pretend those things hadn't happened. Oh, I don't remember that.

Elena (12:07)

That's mom's favorite. Yeah, that's the sick mom response. I don't remember it like that exactly.

Grady (12:13)

And so for me, when I started writing, I realized that the way to make it not sound stiff and boring was to tell it like I was telling it to another person. Right. And like. And I know people say that, but I'd heard that writing advice and workshops and classes and stuff, and it just. I guess I hit a point where I digested it enough and was like, I need to be writing the way I would speak, you know? And when you talk and tell a story, unless you're an idiot, you generally have a pretty good idea of what to leave out. You know what I mean? Like, and so it was just. That was really the breakthrough for me is. Is realizing that. And then with my best friend's exorcism, the real breakthrough was realizing that I needed to go back and actually remember what high school in 1988 was like, rather than what John Hughes told me high school in 1988 was like. And I wrote a whole draft of the book that was just as, according to my wife, hot garbage. Because it was just knockoffs. It was just a bad.

Elena (13:18)

That's amazing. That's not so Canadian.

Grady (13:22)

It was. She's been in the States.

Elena (13:24)

Yes.

Grady (13:25)

We've lost her.

Elena (13:26)

Picked up some stuff.

Grady (13:27)

Yeah. And so I was just magpying together tropes and things. And so to go back and really remember what it was like and things like. And really sort of buckle down and do that work. And then to also, you know, put some blood on the page. That was the first time I realized that the more I put in stuff that I found embarrassing and difficult, the more readers responded to it. I mean, Abby has horrible acne in that because I had horrible acne in high school. Like, really bad, borderline disfiguring acne where you just sort of look in the mirror and just be like, I can't. I can't do it. I can't leave the house like this. I look like a monster. You know the three way calling thing?

Elena (14:14)

Yeah.

Grady (14:14)

I got burned in a three way calling thing so bad. By this girl I had a crush on.

Elena (14:18)

Like, yep.

Grady (14:19)

Yeah, it's so. It's awful. Doesn't exist anymore, really. But, like, it was bad.

Elena (14:25)

Kids don't know Nowadays they don't know the trauma of a three way calling attack.

Ash (14:30)

All they have is group chat.

Grady (14:32)

Yeah. Oh, and I'm sure that's just as traumatic, you know, when you remember when you realize someone's in the group chat and you thought they weren't.

Ash (14:39)

Oh, that'll change.

Elena (14:41)

Oh, no. Really?

Grady (14:44)

I was actually at a party and I texted what I thought was my wife telling her how boring the party was and how pretentious I thought everyone was. And I didn't realize it. The two hosts were on that group chat. Oh. And then I like found them and I was like, oh, just being so April fools. Being a big jokester.

Elena (15:11)

They're like, you will. Oh my God. And they have that unsensed.

Grady (15:16)

No, they laughed it off. They were pretty drunk at that point.

Ash (15:19)

Oh, there you go. That fixes everything.

Elena (15:20)

There you go. Yeah, that's horrifying.

Ash (15:23)

Yeah, that's what.

Grady (15:24)

Yeah, it was, I was, it was bad. That haunted me for a lot.

Elena (15:26)

That really is the greatest part of being married, though, is being able to talk to yourself. Spouse. The second you. The second you leave somewhere or while you're there via text.

Ash (15:37)

It's one of my favorite things to get married.

Elena (15:38)

Yeah.

Grady (15:39)

But here's my question is I'm always worried we can be heard. Like, I'm paranoid that like, we're too close to the scene of the crime, we need to wait longer. Or someone from the party or the dinners on the subway with us. Or what if I accidentally butt dialed the person and even though we're all the way back at our house, my phone is listening.

Ash (16:01)

No, I've done that before.

Elena (16:02)

Done that in a horrible way.

Ash (16:04)

I'm not going to go into details because the person might be listening, but I've done that before and it was really, really bad.

Elena (16:10)

So now I'm constantly in fear of a butt dial to the exact person that I'm talking about.

Ash (16:15)

Yep. When it happens to you, it changes.

Grady (16:17)

Yeah, I didn't even. I didn't even know it was a real thing. Like, and now that you've said that, I return to my cave of shame and will live a cautious life.

Elena (16:28)

You have to.

Grady (16:28)

I love everyone and have nothing negative to say about any of.

Ash (16:31)

Is just so beautiful. Right.

Elena (16:32)

If you hear anything to the contrary, it's a lie, it's fake.

Ash (16:45)

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Grady (19:42)

I used to. I still am very. I. When I was young, I saw this captain. I mean, they showed my, my Cub Scouts. This like Captain America. You know, how to save energy. You know, conservation is your friend. Little film strip. And it was like, always close the refriger refrigerator door and like, you know, don't leave the oven on. And so I have. I was very OCD as a kid, but I've sometimes like gone back blocks to make sure the oven is off or the stove is off or the refrigerator door is closed. And I was always like, this is so dumb. I just need to break myself in this habit. And one day my wife left the stove on, see. And I had gotten up in the middle of the night and I was like, I'm just gonna check on the stove. I was like.

Ash (20:29)

This is why I do this.

Elena (20:30)

We might all be dead right now.

Grady (20:32)

Well, and that's the thing. My takeaway wasn't, oh, it was on for hours. And it wasn't a big deal. My takeaway was, it was on for hours. My worst nightmare has come true. The walls are listening. An earthquake is gonna happen. Quicksand is real. Bigfoot is in the trees. I need to live in fear sometimes.

Ash (20:52)

You do.

Elena (20:53)

I do the same thing with locked doors, though.

Grady (20:55)

Oh.

Ash (20:56)

Locking the doors at night. I'm a psychopath about it.

Elena (20:58)

And my husband loves to do this thing where I'll be like, did you lock the back door? And he's like, I think so. And I'm like, that's not an answer. So then I just have to. I'm like, of course. And it's always locked every time. But I'm like, don't say, I think so. Yeah, you can't say I think so.

Grady (21:11)

Why do people feel like playing on your nerves is funny? It's not funny.

Elena (21:15)

I don't know.

Ash (21:16)

Some people really do.

Grady (21:17)

I want to be safe.

Elena (21:17)

Yeah. I'm like, we've been married for 13 years. You should know now, that. That's not a good game to play, especially.

Grady (21:24)

Yeah. You're gonna get up and go check.

Elena (21:25)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ash (21:28)

Well, going back to your writing and you just touched on it a little bit, having three sisters between Abby and my best friend's exorcism to Lynette and final girl support group, I feel like every time I read a new one of your titles, I'm always so impressed with how well you write women. How do you feel like you're able to create these vivid, real women characters?

Grady (21:47)

Well, okay, so this is. This is a thank you. I really appreciate that. No, honestly, I do, B. I think it's so weird that that's not normal. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's worth comment. Because I'm like, isn't this the job as a writer? Like, you write people who aren't you? And, like, I get it. Like, I could not convincingly write something from a black perspective because I just don't know that perspective of the world. I can make some guesses. I can definitely have characters of color, but I would never want to write a book completely from a black or a Latino character's point of view, because I don't know how that kind of family. I don't know the family. I don't have family dynamics. You know what I mean? I just would not be comfortable doing that, but with a woman. Like, I grew up in the same house with my sisters. Like, you know what I mean? I'm like, they're not living on another planet. They are another person. That's. Yes, things are different, but I can extrapolate those things. I can write a robot. Why can't I write. You know, I can write a vampire. And so I always find that so weird. And I'm always like, well, geez, that sucks.

Ash (22:57)

So well done.

Elena (22:58)

I know.

Grady (22:58)

Well, I know, and thank you. But, I mean, that's literally the job. So it really is using. I mean, this sounds so lame, but, like, using your imagination. And also, like, you know, I do have three older sisters. I mean, I was largely raised by my mom. I've been married for 30 something years. So I really, you know, with my wife, especially, like, we got married when she was 19 and I was 20, so we've really grown up together. If I don't know what almost every stage of her life is, like, I haven't been paying attention. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, very true. Like, I'm sure there are things she keeps private, but, you know, it's just a matter of, like, Thinking it through, like, you know, I mean, to me, I'm kind of like, well, yeah, I love parking far away from a venue if I'm going to see a show or something, because I don't want to have to fight for a parking space. And I don't mind the walk, but I'm a knucklehead if I don't think it through and realize that for a woman walking alone across a dark parking lot, you know, at one in the morning is a very different experience. Not saying it's not scary for me, but my fear is of werewolves. Their fear is probably something a lot more. A lot more scientifically valid. So there's that kind of stuff where I guess that would be an easy trap to walk into, but really, it's just thinking it through and not being a knucklehead.

Ash (24:17)

You know, seamen were not as complicated as you think.

Elena (24:20)

It's true. Just don't be.

Grady (24:22)

And I don't want to make women. I don't want to make women seem simple. But it's.

Elena (24:26)

I don't know.

Grady (24:27)

I just. I don't mean to huff and puff on this one. Yeah, I don't. I just try real hard. I mean, I'm writing a book. The book I'm writing right now is interesting because it doesn't have a single female character in it.

Elena (24:39)

Oh, wow.

Grady (24:39)

And, yeah, it's weird. It just kind of happened accidentally. And I'm like, wow, this is going really quick.

Elena (24:46)

You don't have to ponder anything.

Ash (24:48)

You're just like, boom.

Grady (24:49)

Well, it's also less about the pondering. I realized, thank God, because I was like, maybe I've been, like, really holding myself back all these years. What I realized is that the last book, Witchcraft, I mean, it was set in 1970. It's a lot of research. It was also set in a home for unwed mothers. It was just. Just a dark, dark book. I really like that book. I'm very proud of that book. But it was like. But thank you. And it was like, it's a book I'm so proud of, and I'm so glad I wrote. But it's like, now I'm writing a book, like, which is much lighter. And I'm like, I think that's why it's. I'm just like, I'm so relieved not to be writing a book where everyone is not at their worst moment of their life every minute of the book.

Elena (25:32)

There you go.

Ash (25:32)

It's like a little palate cleanser.

Grady (25:34)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Ash (25:35)

Perfect. I love it.

Elena (25:36)

I felt Like, Witchcraft for Wayward Girls is like, reading. It felt like you were, like, under one of those blankets that has, like, the hood. I have, like, that cozy feeling, too. I don't know why it was, like, cozy, scary.

Ash (25:48)

I'm so excited to read that one.

Grady (25:50)

No, I'm really glad. I mean, that was a book that I really consciously went long on. I just was like, I want this to be one of those books that you feel like you can pull around yourself like a blanket. That's just sort of a big book, you know, you can get lost in for. You know, someone's like, oh, I read it in three days. I'm like, God damn it, I gotta read it.

Elena (26:10)

You're like, no.

Grady (26:11)

Yeah. Like, I appreciate that. I take it as a compliment. But I'm always like, but it took me two years to write it. I know, Like. But yeah, no, it's a book. I wanted to feel big and sort of comforting and all encompassing.

Elena (26:23)

That's exactly the word for it. It literally feels like it's its own, like, atmosphere a little bit. Like you feel like you're in a room. Like, it created a room around me that's cozy. I just really like. It was a fun experience to read it for. Sure.

Grady (26:36)

No, I really appreciate it.

Ash (26:38)

I just finished, actually, yesterday, just by coincidence, Southern Book Club's Guide to Slaying Vampires. So good.

Elena (26:45)

I love that book so much.

Ash (26:47)

And I took some time to read it.

Elena (26:48)

I didn't.

Ash (26:49)

I didn't devour it all at once.

Grady (26:51)

No, I mean, it's always a compliment. Someone says that. I'm like, oh, that's the point. Right? I want you excited to finish it. But, yeah, it is. Like, there isn't a really dis. I mean, you all know this. There's such a disproportionate ratio to the time it takes to write a book versus the time it takes to read a book. Book.

Elena (27:04)

Oh, yes.

Grady (27:05)

You know, so it's like, I wish I could get that a little more in battle.

Elena (27:09)

I know. It's true. Well, we have. We have some, like, kind of interesting questions that'll be coming up for you. We're gonna go into a game of Would you rather. But first, I have one question that kind of ties into your final Girls support group book.

Grady (27:24)

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Elena (27:25)

So if you had to be in one of your final Girls horror franchises, which one would you actually survive? And how.

Grady (27:34)

Which one would I survive?

Elena (27:36)

Yeah. Which one do you think you could get through?

Grady (27:40)

I mean, none. I am very comfortable knowing that I'm one of the first ones. Self aware, Like, Yeah, almost. I can't think of a single franchise I'd survive, like, Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Ash (27:55)

Oh, Dead on Impact.

Elena (27:56)

No.

Grady (27:57)

Yeah. Deadline. Friday the 13th. Done. You know, trying to think. I mean, what do we have?

Elena (28:04)

We have Halloween.

Ash (28:04)

I feel good about Halloween because he walks, and I'm not Lori. That's what you said.

Elena (28:09)

I would just be like, lori's over there. Yeah.

Grady (28:11)

Yeah.

Elena (28:12)

I saw her go down.

Grady (28:13)

I just saw your sister. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I really. I mean, Nightmare on Elm street, as soon as you go to sleep, you're screwed.

Ash (28:22)

I love sleeping.

Grady (28:24)

Yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, I've really. It's taken me a long time, but I've accepted the fact that I am a early death. And all I can hope for, it's a really good one that people remember.

Ash (28:36)

There you go.

Elena (28:36)

That's all you can hope for. I think.

Grady (28:38)

Elena, what do you think you want to be? Yeah. You want to be Johnny Depp in, like, Nightmare on Elm street? Or, like, Heaven Bacon in, like, you know, Friday? Like, you want to be a memorable one?

Elena (28:50)

You have to cover the room in blood.

Ash (28:52)

Yeah, you do.

Grady (28:52)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elena (28:53)

Like, you have to be Tatum hanging out of the garage door.

Ash (28:56)

Oh, that's exactly who I be. Tag yourself. I'm hurt.

Elena (29:01)

I think I could serve. I. I don't know. I could potentially survive Halloween just because, again, he walks. I'm pretty good at hiding, and I'm not Laurie Strode. There you go. So I feel like, boom. Boom.

Grady (29:13)

But this is how Michael gets you. You underestimate him.

Ash (29:15)

That is true. That's valid. He's also unkillable.

Elena (29:18)

I was gonna say he just die. Yeah.

Ash (29:20)

That is. That's a tough one to get, but it is true.

Grady (29:23)

I mean, you do always feel like, pick a point. Run in a straight line, just go. And when you get to that point, pick another point. Straight line, just go. How can you go wrong and yet, you know.

Elena (29:35)

And he'll be there.

Grady (29:37)

Yeah.

Elena (29:37)

No matter what. That's very true.

Ash (29:39)

I know. Jason Voorhees, too.

Elena (29:42)

Yeah.

Grady (29:42)

Yeah.

Ash (29:42)

I don't think you could escape that one.

Elena (29:44)

And he's real big. He's so big. I don't love that.

Ash (29:47)

The math mask would. I just. I don't have fright or flight.

Elena (29:52)

I freeze.

Ash (29:53)

Freeze. I just freeze in the moment. If I'm scared of something, can confirm she does freeze. I literally just go.

Elena (29:58)

She just gets paralyzed in the moment.

Grady (30:01)

Yeah. And there's also one of those things where I used to, when I was younger, be like, I wouldn't want to be impaled on a farm implement or like, those deaths looked painful. And I was like, I'd rather just kill myself. And now I've come around, I'm like, no, where there's life, there's hope. But back in the day, I was very much like, I don't want to be hung on a hook, you know.

Elena (30:20)

Like, I want that.

Grady (30:22)

Yeah. And now I just feel like, accept your fate, you know, and just make it cool. Yeah, yeah.

Elena (30:27)

That's really all.

Ash (30:27)

You go down in infamy, I guess.

Elena (30:29)

Yeah. All right, so let's get into our would you Rathers, because they are pretty ridiculous. So we're starting off strong here.

Grady (30:38)

Oh, good.

Elena (30:39)

Would you rather have to co author your next book with a sentient cursed book titled Sexy Spells for Sassy Sorcerers or with an eldritch horror who insists on writing everything in Comic Sans?

Grady (30:56)

Oh, definitely the latter.

Elena (31:00)

The Comic Sans.

Grady (31:01)

Yeah, I've done. I mean, because at the end of the day, your editor, it's not going to be published in Comic Sans, you know, Truth Valley. And, you know, I've done some co authoring before, and I'm very good at working with someone. I don't always enjoy it all the way, but I'm very good at navigating that relationship. And so I feel like in eldritch horror, it would need me. Like, we're co authoring. It couldn't just banish me to another dimension of eternal torment right off the bat. Like, it needs me. And so I actually think we might come to know each other and appreciate each other, appreciate our differences. I kind of love that, you know. What holidays do you celebrate? Oh, I didn't know today was a special day for eldritch horrors. Tell me a little bit about your traditions. And I think it would be interesting, if nothing else, working with a cursed book. Like, it's just a book. It's like, you know, there are books everywhere. Cursed or not. I want the Eldritch horror.

Elena (32:04)

All right.

Ash (32:05)

I respect it.

Elena (32:05)

I feel that.

Ash (32:06)

Yeah, yeah, actually, and like you said, it's not going to be published in Comic Sans. I didn't even think of that.

Elena (32:11)

I know.

Grady (32:11)

Yeah. And I'm not that offended by Comic Sans.

Ash (32:15)

Oh, that's where we differ.

Grady (32:16)

I mean, like, I don't like it. I wouldn't use it. But, like, you know, if you were saying, oh, it only works in like, zap ding dats or something. I mean, that's an annoying step. Yeah. You have to highlight it and then. Yeah, that's like Ariel, but.

Ash (32:30)

Yeah, that'd be a whole thing.

Elena (32:32)

That's a good call. And I like that you would have to, like, get to know the Eldritch horror.

Ash (32:36)

Yeah.

Grady (32:37)

Yeah.

Elena (32:37)

I think that's a nice part of it.

Grady (32:38)

It. I mean, I think nothing else would be a fun story.

Elena (32:42)

Yeah. And you'd probably get another story out of it.

Grady (32:45)

Yeah.

Elena (32:46)

You don't have to co author, just experience, so.

Grady (32:49)

Yeah. Although then you get a really hurt text. It's like, I can't see those things in confidence.

Ash (32:56)

I never went on the record.

Grady (32:58)

Yeah. I didn't want those in a book. I assumed this character Just look off is based on me.

Elena (33:03)

I thought we were friends.

Grady (33:04)

Thanks. I thought we, like. I thought we actually liked each other.

Elena (33:07)

I thought we really connected during that.

Ash (33:09)

I didn't realize it was just work for you.

Elena (33:11)

I told you about my special holiday.

Grady (33:13)

Yeah.

Elena (33:15)

No, I love that. Now that I'm thinking about it, my initial feeling was I was a little on the fence about both, but I think I would also go with the Eldritch Horror. I just love the idea of the book being called Sexy Spells for Sassy Sorcerers.

Grady (33:27)

Oh, yeah.

Elena (33:28)

That's fun to say because I'm like, is that book. It's sentient. So it's got something going on there, and I want to know what it's about.

Grady (33:38)

But there's also an aspect where you feel like sometimes if someone, like, we all have friends like this. Right. Who. They only see things through a certain lens. Maybe it's a political lens. Maybe it's global warming. Is there. You know, so this. I feel like the Sassy Spellbook would just keep returning to Sex for Sorcerers. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it would just keep bringing the conversation back there. And it's like one note.

Elena (34:03)

Yeah.

Grady (34:03)

Yeah. Like, everything would feel like a bit.

Elena (34:06)

That's true.

Ash (34:07)

That'd be tough.

Elena (34:08)

And an Eldritch horror has just endless.

Ash (34:11)

A new adventure every day.

Grady (34:12)

Yeah. A wide range of interests.

Elena (34:15)

Absolutely.

Ash (34:15)

There you go. That was. I respect that.

Elena (34:17)

Yeah. I definitely respect that answer. And I agree with it.

Ash (34:20)

I do, too.

Elena (34:22)

So, next question.

Grady (34:24)

Oh, let's do this.

Elena (34:25)

Would you rather write with a haunted typewriter that types back at you with sassy commentary or with a cursed laptop that tries to sabotage your drafts by inserting romance subplots at random places?

Grady (34:42)

It is difficult.

Elena (34:43)

This is a hard one.

Grady (34:45)

And I'll tell you, I mean, you. I immediately recoil in horror at the typewriter with the sassiness. Do you know what I mean? Like, sassy's great in a 1930s screwball comedy, but in real life, Sassy was just kind of irritating.

Elena (35:02)

Oh, absolutely.

Grady (35:03)

Like, how. What kind of romance. What kind of romantic stuff? Is it like inserting? Is it. Is it sort of like doing slash to what we're writing? So it's like, you know, it's just suddenly the characters are, like, embracing and going off and. Or is it like actually inserting a completely separate narrative between.

Elena (35:19)

That's actually a great idea. I. When I initially thought of this, I thought that they were just kind of of randomly forcing your characters into, like, a romance subplot.

Grady (35:30)

Like.

Elena (35:30)

Yeah, that doesn't make sense.

Grady (35:31)

No, no, that makes sense. That makes more sense. Which would I rather. You know what? I'm gonna go with the type.

Ash (35:38)

Sassy Typewriter.

Grady (35:40)

No, I'm going with the laptop.

Elena (35:41)

I'm going with the laptop.

Grady (35:43)

I know, I know. Yeah. Wow. There's something about a typewriter. Do either of y' all write on a typewriter?

Elena (35:50)

I'm not.

Grady (35:51)

No. I don't either. And I tried to get one of those typewriter keyboards once that, like, oh, maybe this will be interesting. Yeah. Do you ever use it?

Elena (35:58)

No.

Grady (35:59)

Yeah, exactly.

Elena (36:01)

Every once in a while when I go buy it, I'll touch the keys to make the sound and that's as far as it goes.

Grady (36:06)

Exactly. Typewriters, I feel like, are that friend who's really into bourbon, and you just can't order a drink at the bar, you know, without them telling you all about it. Like, there's something about it. Not typewriter's fault, but whenever someone's like, oh, I only use the same typewriter, and I had to wear Warehouse, you know, Parks when it got discontinued in 1978, I'm always like, grow up.

Ash (36:30)

Go to the Apple Store.

Grady (36:32)

Yeah. What's wrong with a pen?

Elena (36:34)

It's true.

Ash (36:44)

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Elena (41:17)

Yeah, I think I, I, I kind of want the sassy commentary more than the romance subplots for me too because I'd, I'd have trouble. I feel like then you have to write them out of it every time. That'd be tough because in my head it's like, is it stuck in the story now? Like I can't just erase it. I have to get them out of that. That.

Ash (41:37)

Yeah.

Elena (41:37)

And back into line here.

Ash (41:39)

That'd be tough.

Elena (41:40)

And I feel like that's a lot more work.

Ash (41:42)

It's like double editing. Yeah, lots of work.

Elena (41:44)

And I don't want that. No.

Grady (41:46)

Well, all of this is adding a lot more work to the process.

Ash (41:49)

Yeah. Either way, you're not wrong.

Elena (41:50)

The sassy commentary is definitely adding because it's going to make me second guess everything I write.

Grady (41:55)

Yeah.

Ash (41:56)

I feel it's her final decision.

Elena (41:58)

I'm going to go with the typewriter only because I don't want to have to write people out of a romance subplot. All right.

Grady (42:04)

Right.

Ash (42:05)

I respect it.

Elena (42:06)

And it is cursed. It says a cursed laptop, so I don't know how far that curse goes.

Ash (42:11)

All right.

Elena (42:12)

I don't want to enter into anything. Yeah. The full scope of.

Ash (42:16)

I think I'm going sassy commentary on this one. I think I could have fun. I'd send some back. Like, let's go. I'm a Gemini. I'm all about W banter, so.

Elena (42:23)

That's true.

Grady (42:24)

You know, but don't you worry that, like, there's a fine line between sassy commentary and personally hurtful?

Ash (42:32)

It could be personally hurtful, but I can. I can go scorched earth really quick back at that sassy typewriter. Yeah.

Grady (42:41)

Dumb typewriter.

Ash (42:42)

Listen to this.

Grady (42:44)

Go change your ribbons.

Ash (42:46)

Yeah, exactly.

Elena (42:47)

You're like, I'll do it.

Ash (42:49)

All right, so the next one. Would you rather write your next novel in Grace Kavanaugh's home from Southern Book Club's Guide to Slaying Vampires, or. This is crazy. In the creepy attic of a fan who calls you Daddy Horror.

Grady (43:05)

Wow. Grace's house. No question. No question. Yeah. I feel there's a. There's a. And y' all know this as well as anyone. There is not just a line, but I would say a canyon between making the donuts and eating the donuts. Yeah. And I don't want anyone who enjoys eating the donuts to see the donuts. Donuts getting made.

Ash (43:27)

That's.

Grady (43:28)

So I'd rather be.

Elena (43:29)

Best way to say that.

Grady (43:30)

And Grace's house is actually, to some small extent, in my mind, based on a house that I actually rather found rather pleasant, so.

Ash (43:37)

Oh, really?

Grady (43:38)

I'm all in for Grace. Yeah.

Elena (43:40)

All right. I like that.

Ash (43:41)

I think I'd go Grace, too, because I agree with your donut analogy, and I like that a lot.

Elena (43:45)

Yeah, I fully agree. It. It's very misery to me and very well. So.

Grady (43:51)

Yeah.

Elena (43:52)

Yeah. I'm going with Grace. All right.

Ash (43:54)

That one was easy. Let's see if this one is as easy. Would you rather only be able to speak an 80s slang for the rest of your life or have to perform an exorcism with nothing but a mixtape? And some Strawberry lip smackers.

Grady (44:08)

Oh,'80s slang. Easy.

Ash (44:10)

Yeah, Yeah.

Grady (44:11)

I don't know if I want to perform an exorcism.

Ash (44:14)

I think I do if it entails a mixtape and Strawberry Lip Smacker, I was gonna say.

Grady (44:19)

I mean, that sounds like a fun exorcism as far as they go.

Ash (44:22)

It does. You know.

Elena (44:23)

And what's on the mixtape? Ooh, that's the fun part.

Ash (44:26)

I know. Did we make the mixtape or was it given to us?

Elena (44:30)

In my mind, I made the mixtape, like, a powerful mixtape for the exorcism in mind.

Ash (44:36)

Okay.

Elena (44:37)

Yeah, for sure.

Ash (44:38)

Yeah. I would go. I would go exorcism in that scenario.

Elena (44:41)

Then, yeah, I'm going exorcism.

Ash (44:43)

All right, we can do it tonight.

Grady (44:44)

I'm going slang.

Elena (44:45)

You're going slang. You can just be in the corner saying things.

Grady (44:48)

Things like, totally tubular, y'. All.

Elena (44:51)

Exactly.

Ash (44:51)

Totally tubular.

Grady (44:52)

Exorcism.

Elena (44:53)

It'll only help.

Grady (44:54)

And I feel like 80s slangs could have made a comeback a little bit, you know, like.

Ash (44:57)

Yeah, everything does.

Elena (44:58)

As soon as you just said gnarly, I was like, wait a second. I use that on, like, a regular basis.

Ash (45:02)

I say gnarly very regularly gnarly.

Elena (45:06)

Like rad.

Grady (45:07)

No one says you have to sound like Spicoli and fast on the Ridgemont High. You just gotta use something.

Elena (45:11)

Yeah, that's true.

Ash (45:13)

Just a dab here and there.

Elena (45:14)

All right, that might kind of be fun.

Grady (45:16)

No, but the exorcism. I really appreciate you guys looking for a challenge.

Ash (45:20)

Yeah.

Elena (45:21)

I mean, I've never done an exorcism before, so I feel like presented the opportunity. This is a pretty good one. Why wouldn't you, you know?

Ash (45:29)

Yeah, exactly. You have to accept the challenges in life.

Elena (45:31)

You do. All right, so we're exercising in your. Talking like a John Hughes movie. I'm into it, so. So moving on from exorcisms, would you rather spend one week living in Shirley Jackson's hill house or one weekend on a girls trip with the witches from Suspiria.

Grady (45:54)

Oh, like Helena Marcos and all that. Oh, definitely. Definitely. Girls trap. 100% love that. Yeah, I'm 100%. I mean, because it's the creepy cook who doesn't really talk a whole lot. The little kid dressed up as Little Lord Fauntleroy. Roy. There's what's her name, who runs the dance academy, who's great, and there's Helena Marcos. Just being a boss, you know, like, you know, I'm all. I'm all in on the girls trip. That would be a Blast.

Elena (46:24)

When you present it that way, it sounds like fun.

Ash (46:27)

Yeah, it kind of does.

Grady (46:28)

I kind of, like, I'm not on the girls trip to be tormented. I'm there to have a good time.

Ash (46:33)

What do you think the first stop is on that girls trip?

Elena (46:36)

Ooh.

Grady (46:37)

Well, I sort of. So I would think. I would think that what we'd be doing is it'd be a little less of a road trip and more sort of a destination, you know? So I'm thinking like, a resort maybe, you know, in, like, somewhere all inclusive in Mexico or something. And, like, you could take day trips to explore stuff and. Or maybe just chill by the pool. And there's, like, three or four pools to do some beach club, get a cabana.

Elena (47:04)

I like that.

Ash (47:04)

I think I'm choosing this. I think you've just talked me into my decision.

Elena (47:07)

Like, well, shit. Good.

Grady (47:09)

And like. And like, everyone, here's the one thing. I think it would be really important that it's a resort where everyone has separate villas. You know what I mean? Like. Like, no connecting rooms, because I've heard Helena Marco snore, and it's really loud. Like, really. Like, it's really. And so I want separate.

Elena (47:30)

Yeah, I want to get away from that.

Ash (47:31)

And who doesn't want their own villa anyway?

Grady (47:34)

Yeah, exactly. Or she could bring her apnea mask, in which case maybe that changes thing.

Ash (47:39)

Maybe you could room.

Grady (47:41)

Yeah, but I also think, you know, like, you know, she comes into the pool, everyone's gonna leave.

Elena (47:46)

That's true.

Grady (47:46)

I mean, she's invisible, but they'll see her outline in it.

Elena (47:49)

Oh, yeah.

Ash (47:49)

That's freaky. Yeah.

Grady (47:51)

Yeah. And we'd have to have one big rule. Actually, no, this isn't a big rule, because this would be fine. It's like, if you want to. I was gonna say one big rule. No maggot storms. But then if you want to clear the beach, maggot storm, quick.

Elena (48:03)

Maggot storm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So gross. Oh, I like that.

Grady (48:07)

But the seagulls will come and eat them all. Okay, give it 20 minutes to be clear.

Elena (48:11)

It'll take a second. All right. And then you come out. And it's nice and picked clean, but no one's.

Grady (48:15)

Yeah, what about y'?

Ash (48:15)

All?

Grady (48:16)

Where are y' all coming in on this?

Elena (48:18)

Let me think. So you. You made the girls trip sound really fun.

Ash (48:21)

It really did.

Elena (48:22)

I was initially a little scared of that one. I was, too.

Ash (48:25)

You were? Like, a travel.

Elena (48:25)

Now that I'm thinking, I'm like, it is a weekend girls trip, and it's A week in Hill House.

Grady (48:32)

A week is a long time. Yeah. What is the guy's name? Jacob Crane or something in Hill.

Elena (48:36)

Yeah, we don't wanna.

Grady (48:38)

Yeah, he's like a child abuser, and, like, his spirit sort of permeates every. Could you really have a good time.

Elena (48:45)

And for a whole week, I think that would be alone. That. That vibe would be.

Grady (48:49)

Yeah.

Elena (48:50)

Rancid. Yeah.

Ash (48:51)

Reserve us a spot.

Elena (48:52)

Yeah. We're coming on the girls trip.

Grady (48:54)

Come on. Yay.

Elena (48:55)

Nice weekend.

Ash (48:56)

We'll take a villa together.

Elena (48:57)

Together. Yeah.

Ash (48:58)

Great.

Elena (48:59)

I like that.

Grady (48:59)

Yeah, I'd actually. I'd do three ways on the villa with you guys and, like, split the charges, but then everyone else can have other villas. Yeah, I mean, I like that.

Elena (49:07)

Although I do snore, but I use breathe right strips, so that's. Okay. We're good. I'll do it for you guys.

Ash (49:13)

Yeah, we'll put it on. We'll put it on the Google calendar.

Elena (49:15)

Perfect. All right, we're going on the girls trip with Suspiria.

Grady (49:18)

I'm in.

Elena (49:19)

So next, would you rather have to sell your childhood home, which is very haunted and also so full of murder puppets, or live in it for a year while the puppets get to know you?

Grady (49:34)

Well, I'm gonna. I'm gonna push. I'm gonna. I'm gonna call the premise of the question into question, because you have. If it's your childhood home, you have been living in it with the murder puppets for years.

Elena (49:46)

So maybe the murder puppets are a new addition to.

Grady (49:48)

Oh, they just moved in. Oh, I. I actually wouldn't mind the murder puppets. Like, really? Yeah. I'm. I mean, on the one hand, it would be really fun to sell a home with an infestation to someone and think about that and get away with it. But on the other hand, like, I think it would be. I think it might be pleasant to share a home with a bunch of murder puppets. Like, it'd be interesting. Yeah. I mean, it would just kind of be like, what do they get up to when they're not murdering? Like, because there's only me, and if they murder me, they got no more murder. So they're gonna have to be luring people into it. So I feel like there'd be a lot of. A lot of coming and going, which isn't always my favorite thing. I like quiet house. I like quiet, but, I mean, think that there is something really adorable about a murder puppy. They're puppet. They're tiny. They're cute.

Elena (50:40)

Tiny little weapons.

Grady (50:42)

Tiny little weapons. And. And Think of their gumption. I mean, this is how I feel about Chihuahuas. Like. Like they're so brave. Like everything is so much bigger than them.

Elena (50:51)

Yes, that's true.

Grady (50:52)

Yeah. You could just like drop. Kick them far. But they still like go out there. They still put themselves out there. And I feel like movie night. I mean, so to me, heaven would be movie night. You got your like blanket on the couch and you're just snuggled up with a bunch of murder puppets.

Ash (51:10)

Wow.

Grady (51:12)

I mean, that sounds really fun.

Elena (51:14)

They do want to get to know you.

Grady (51:15)

You. Yeah, I don't. We would be chatting, they'd be telling about their lies, be telling them about mine. They pretend to be interested.

Elena (51:23)

Yeah, of course they would. Yeah, I like that.

Ash (51:26)

How would you sleep there though?

Grady (51:29)

Yeah. I mean, sleep hygiene is tough. Right. I think with murder, I think I would do more of a power nap situation. Like really hitting those 20 minute power naps.

Elena (51:40)

Yeah.

Grady (51:42)

But also they're not murdering me in my sleep. You know what I mean? Like, like, because that's not fun. Yeah.

Ash (51:48)

There's always a chance they could.

Grady (51:50)

There's a chance they could. But jokes on them at that point. Like, they've killed me in my sleep, so I'm none the wiser. And now they don't have anyone else to murder or. And no one else paying the bills. So that house is going to go on the market. You know who that. They might. Someone just might get it for a tear down.

Elena (52:06)

Yeah. And they just become puppets at that.

Grady (52:09)

Yeah.

Elena (52:10)

Because they're not murder puppets anymore.

Grady (52:12)

Yeah.

Ash (52:12)

And that's.

Grady (52:13)

And I was about to say a workaround might be cutting off my arms and legs and keeping me in a box or something.

Elena (52:18)

Wow.

Grady (52:18)

But I would still have to be earning money to keep the house. So it's in their best interest to keep me mostly intact.

Elena (52:26)

But maybe they'll make you just like tran. Like, you know, transcribing. I was like, what is the word I'm trying to think of? So you don't need your arms or legs to write.

Grady (52:37)

Right.

Elena (52:38)

Because you can just say they'll make you say the story out loud.

Grady (52:40)

I see what you're saying. Yeah.

Elena (52:41)

And they'll just transcribe it for you.

Grady (52:44)

I gotta say though, I. I'm gonna take the murder puppet.

Elena (52:48)

I feel like I'm gonna take the murder puppet.

Grady (52:49)

Yeah. No, I mean. And you know, out of all of them, this is the one I'm the least certain about because it could go a lot of directions. But I'm gonna stick with the murder puppets.

Ash (52:57)

I respect that.

Elena (52:59)

It is intriguing. And I feel like at night when you want to go to sleep, sleep, if you just did, like, a really quick look around of your room, like, have a barren room, you know, like, don't have a lot of places where they can scoot under. You could keep them out. They're little. They're not going to be able to, like, bang a door down or anything. So you could get some sleep.

Ash (53:17)

But they can hide easily.

Grady (53:18)

I feel like, as a dude, I'm going to double down on my decision, even if it's very poor, and cling to my position, like, I'm doing it.

Ash (53:27)

Is that what you're choosing to Elena?

Elena (53:29)

Yeah. I kind of want to see what the murder puppets are all about. I love Puppet Master. That's hilarious.

Grady (53:34)

Oh, yeah.

Elena (53:35)

So.

Grady (53:36)

And that's the problem with that franchise is the more familiar you get with those puppets, the more kind of adorable they are.

Elena (53:41)

They are. That's the thing. And that's all I'm picturing in my head right now, are those puppets. And I'm like, let's go, girls. Let's hang out.

Ash (53:49)

I think I'll sell the house to a contestant on that show. I'm a puppet.

Elena (53:55)

Or you could sell it to us.

Ash (53:56)

Or there you go. I'll sell the house. You already want it.

Elena (54:00)

We'll buy it.

Ash (54:00)

Perfect.

Grady (54:01)

As someone who's currently living in an apartment with termites, so it's basically sold to me with murder puppets. Except the less cute, tiny little ones. My opinion of you will be very low if you sell me a house and I discover the walls are crammed with murder puppets.

Ash (54:16)

But you'll learn to love them.

Elena (54:17)

It's true. Because they'll get to know you.

Ash (54:20)

Yeah, exactly.

Grady (54:21)

I will be resentful.

Ash (54:23)

I won't actually. Hey, weirdos. We need to tell you about something that has completely blown our minds collectively. There's a new show called Lawless Planet that's uncovering true crime stories so massive, they're affecting the entire planet. Post. Zach Goldbaum is investigating real cases where environmental destruction meets murder, conspiracy, and coverups. We're talking about activists who disappear in the Amazon rainforest, whistleblowers who risk everything to expose deadly corporate secrets and communities being silently poisoned while powerful people profit. What makes these stories truly terrifying? They're happening right now. This isn't history. It's a massive criminal conspiracy unfolding in real time with consequences that affect us all. Each episode feels like opening a case file into the darkest corners of corporate and government power. Trust us, once you Start listening. You will not be able to stop thinking about these stories. Follow Lawless Planet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes of Lawless Planet early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. All right, next question. Would you rather have every writing session interrupted by whispers from a ghost quoting bad Goodreads reviews, or have every writing session interrupted by a witch hat? A sentient witch hat who keeps tapping on your keyboard and adding the word slay to every sentence?

Grady (55:59)

Witch hat.

Elena (56:02)

Yeah.

Grady (56:03)

Yeah. I don't read reviews online. I don't.

Elena (56:06)

Me neither.

Ash (56:06)

Neither do we.

Grady (56:07)

I never have and I never will, and it's sick. Yeah. So I'd rather witch hat.

Ash (56:13)

And who doesn't want to have slay in many sentences?

Elena (56:15)

Yeah, you don't have to keep it there. You just go delete it if you need.

Grady (56:20)

Also, this witch hat already sounds adorable. It's like a little hermit crab. A little occult hermit crab.

Elena (56:24)

Yes.

Ash (56:25)

I was excited about it. I like the witch hat.

Elena (56:27)

I like that one a lot. Yeah. Because one, a ghost would be cool, but a whispering ghost, I'm not for at all. And criticizing, but then whispering reviews that I'm actively avoiding would be it for me.

Ash (56:39)

Yeah.

Elena (56:39)

I'd go, no.

Grady (56:41)

Yeah.

Elena (56:41)

Yeah. All right.

Ash (56:42)

That one was easy.

Elena (56:42)

Yeah, that was an easy one.

Ash (56:44)

Next one. Would you rather write your next novel while a Victorian ghost dramatically faints every time you use a semicolon, or would you rather write it while being interrupted periodically by the sound of groaning Victorian child ghosts?

Grady (57:00)

Oh, the first one. I almost never use semicolons, and so I feel like five or six. Six fanny fits for an entire book, max. Yeah. It's just not bad.

Elena (57:09)

It's pretty good.

Grady (57:10)

Yeah. And child ghosts. I grew up at a time when, like, your parents were like, it's summer. Go outside, and you weren't allowed back in the house all day except for lunch. And, like, if you tried to see me, like, it's really hot. My mom used to put. She'd be like, go drink from the hose. And so. And so that may have colored my attitude, but that is my attitude towards child ghost. I'm always like, go outside, die.

Elena (57:37)

Find something to do.

Ash (57:38)

Yeah.

Grady (57:39)

Only boring ghosts are bored. Yeah.

Elena (57:41)

Yeah.

Grady (57:41)

Go play.

Ash (57:42)

Only boring ghosts are boring.

Elena (57:44)

And they're just groaning.

Grady (57:46)

Yeah. Like, what you got to groan about? Like, you got your whole life ahead of you. Got your whole afterlife ahead of you.

Elena (57:51)

Yeah. You don't even pay taxes yet.

Ash (57:53)

That's really beautiful.

Elena (57:54)

You don't even know yeah, exactly.

Grady (57:57)

What do you need to worry about?

Elena (57:58)

Yeah, you have no worries you want to hear.

Grady (58:00)

You want me to give you something to groan about? Let me think about these termites.

Elena (58:03)

The classic 80s parenting response.

Grady (58:06)

Exactly.

Elena (58:08)

I love the idea of a ghost, like a Victorian ghost, just dramatically fainting when I do a semicolon. Like, I would probably put semicolons in my draft just to say watch.

Grady (58:18)

I think actually that's how every writing session would end is semicolon. Door flies open, ghost swoons in and hits the floor.

Ash (58:26)

Yeah, because then you're like, wow, that chapter really sunk because you're like, the end.

Elena (58:30)

Let's go send it in. I like that.

Ash (58:33)

Perfect.

Elena (58:33)

All right, so we're moving on to a little horror story action here.

Grady (58:38)

Okay.

Elena (58:39)

Would you rather be trapped overnight in a haunted orsk where all the furniture rearranges itself and whispers in Swedish, or get a job there where your manager is a demon wearing khakis and demanding team building exercises overnight? Yeah.

Grady (58:57)

100%.

Ash (58:58)

Yeah. That's just one time thing.

Elena (59:00)

You know, that would just be interesting.

Grady (59:02)

You'd be interested. I've worked retail before, and I'm bad at it. Like, I don't have the stomach. Like, people who work retail hats are off to them because they are able to do something that I find impossible. It's like algebra. I don't understand it. I can't do it.

Elena (59:19)

It's a torturous job. Yeah, it really is.

Grady (59:21)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, like, I worked in a bookstore and I've sold stuff from a stand, and I. I wasn't good at either of it.

Ash (59:30)

No, it's tough. Selling is hard.

Elena (59:32)

And people are the meanest to retail people. That's why I'm never mean to retail. Like, anybody working in retail, because I'm like, your job so hard.

Ash (59:41)

Yeah. Retail workers or service workers.

Elena (59:43)

Yeah.

Grady (59:43)

Yeah.

Ash (59:44)

When I was a server back in the day, I cried more than I think I've ever cried in my whole life.

Grady (59:48)

Oh, where were you a server? What kind of place?

Ash (59:51)

Just a little Irish pub.

Grady (59:52)

Okay. Yeah, but it had. It was a bar, basically.

Ash (59:55)

Yeah, pretty much.

Grady (59:56)

Yeah. Yeah. That's. Bartending is the worst.

Ash (60:01)

Yeah, it was tough.

Elena (60:02)

I couldn't.

Ash (60:03)

People say things to you there that you're like. You would never say that in real life. Why are you saying that to me.

Elena (60:07)

In this Irish bar?

Grady (60:09)

Well, some. So someone. Because my wife is a chef, so she's owned a few restaurants and so serve. Yeah. I always. My heart goes out, but I ran into this chick at a film festival and her. She, like, started. She was back of house. At a restaurant, you work in the kitchen. And she had moved to front of house, and she was working the hostess sand. I was like, oh, my God. Yes. I was like, well, it's time talk. So we're chatting. And she was like, well, you know, the big thing with this job is I really do think UFOs are real and that extraterrestrials live amongst us. She's like. Because I think what they do is they tell each other, oh, if you're a little insecure about, you know, your human disguise, go to a restaurant. Like, you can just, like, that's where you'll really work on it and get it right. And if you do weird stuff, they don't even know notice. And she's like. Because I would say at least a third, if not half of our customers, they don't seem very good at being human.

Elena (61:11)

Yeah.

Grady (61:12)

And. And they're experienced. She's like. And sometimes I think the requests are, like, messing with me. Like, it's like, determining how far can I push you? And I said that to my wife and has now gone around her restaurant. Like, why? Because everyone's like, oh, yeah, well, that's clearly. That's.

Ash (61:26)

That's like, yeah, that would make you feel so much better when people are like, to you or doing weird stuff on shift.

Elena (61:31)

You'd be like, you're just trying it on. Yeah.

Ash (61:33)

I wish I knew that back then.

Elena (61:34)

Damn.

Ash (61:35)

That could have saved me.

Grady (61:36)

People are. Yeah. Restaurants and especially bars bring out the worst in human beings.

Ash (61:40)

Yeah. Yeah, they do.

Elena (61:41)

100%. I was lucky to not to do a whole lot of retail in my job.

Ash (61:48)

Yeah.

Elena (61:48)

Journey. But my favorite job was working at a video store by far.

Grady (61:55)

Oh, yeah.

Elena (61:55)

That was cool because that's like, retail, but, like, not. Like, everybody was pretty happy at a video store.

Grady (62:00)

I feel like, what video store was it? Like, what kind?

Elena (62:03)

Like, it was a Hollywood video.

Grady (62:04)

Oh, a Hollywood video where I'm like. Where it was like.

Elena (62:07)

It was literally like, just south of Boston, like, a little suburb. And it was. And I loved that job so much.

Ash (62:16)

That's a cool job.

Elena (62:17)

I miss video stores so much.

Ash (62:18)

I wish they were a thing. I didn't get to experience them very much.

Grady (62:22)

It's so funny. I just did a shoot, like, an interview thing, and they were like, oh, let's do it in a video store. Because I was introducing some movies for something, and I hadn't been in one in a really, really long time. And I was just walking around like. Like, I'd be, you know, like, I was in the. Like, you know, the secret Library of Congress or something. I was, like, walking around, like. Because I realized that having grown up on video stores, that's how my brain. That's, like, that's the optimal way for me to look at movies. It's not this. It's not a streaming interface. It is, like, here is a wire shelf, and on it are all the movies directed by this person, or on it are all the documentaries. And then you could pick it up and read the back and look at the. I was like, this is how my brain was wired to, like.

Elena (63:08)

Yes.

Grady (63:09)

Interface. Like, browse movies.

Elena (63:11)

Yes. Because I get so overwhelmed with streaming services. Like, there's too much selection. Like, I need it narrowed into, like, everything that can fit in this one room in this store. And, like, the new releases are on the outside.

Ash (63:25)

Walk the perimeter for something new.

Elena (63:26)

And you don't know if there's any. An actual VHS tape behind the COVID of it sometimes. Because they would always have the covers. Had to be like, I hope there's one in there.

Ash (63:35)

Oh, that's fun.

Grady (63:36)

Oh, yeah. Because, I mean, how many. Click, click. Like, just shuffling.

Elena (63:42)

I can't.

Grady (63:42)

I've had. I know I've had to do this thing where I use letterboxd, and so I've got everything on there, and I just hit shuffle, and whatever comes up first is what I watch. Even if I'm not in the mood, I'm like, all right, that's what I'm watching.

Elena (63:54)

Honestly, this was fate. Yeah. That's the best way to do it. Because my husband and I will get to the point where we're like, 45 minutes through, like, just going through things on a streaming service, and we're like, forget it. Yeah, just put on Scream.

Ash (64:07)

Yeah, just.

Elena (64:08)

Let's go. Oh, I missed it.

Grady (64:10)

And the worst is if you've had a few drinks, because I'm a notorious. Like, I've had a few drinks, and I'll get 10 minutes into a movie and be like, I'm not in the mood. What else is there? And then, like, four hours later, I'm much drunker, and I've watched 10 minutes of, like, 40 movies, and you're just.

Elena (64:24)

Stringing them all together. It becomes one giant movie. That makes no sense. Well, speaking of a time we all wish was back, would you rather.

Grady (64:35)

Speaking of your drinking problems?

Elena (64:37)

Speaking of your drinking problem. I'm like, it's so weird. It goes right into my next question. Would you rather be trapped inside a forgotten 1980s horror paperback with some pulpy title like Satan's baby Sitter or forced to write the sequel to the Haunted Janitor in one night while being stalked by a mop.

Grady (65:01)

Forced to write on a janitor sequel. I'd rather do something active and passive.

Elena (65:06)

Yeah. I don't want to be stuck in something. Yeah. And especially not Satan's babysitter and being.

Ash (65:12)

Stopped by a mop. Sounds like an interesting experience.

Grady (65:15)

Yeah.

Ash (65:15)

You tell a lot of stories about that later.

Grady (65:17)

Yeah, yeah, no, totally. Like, is it also a haunted mop bucket on wheels? Like. Like, there's a lot like. Yeah, no, I. And also the. I really admire sort of that sort of old school pulp writing where people just churned it out. I'm like, let me see if I can do that. You know, Hell, yeah.

Elena (65:34)

And that's your time.

Grady (65:35)

Not worried about this being good. How fast could I go?

Ash (65:38)

Yeah, it'd be a good test.

Elena (65:39)

I mean, it's the sequel to the Haunted Janitor.

Ash (65:42)

That's the other thing that's even better.

Elena (65:43)

You've already got something to work work with, and that's exactly great. Yeah. And I like. And I Sometimes I like, like a crazy deadline where I'm, like, under crazy pressure. Sometimes. It works. Yeah.

Grady (65:56)

And I want. If I'm doing this, I want my cursed laptop that puts in romance subplots because there's half the book written for me.

Elena (66:05)

Boom. Oh, wow.

Ash (66:06)

There you go, marrying the two together.

Elena (66:08)

Oh, no. Now I'm sad that I picked the typewriter who's just. Just giving me sassy commentary because that's gonna knock me down.

Grady (66:15)

As long as the sassy commentary is in uncapitalized italics, you could just be like, it's metafiction. It's. I'm commenting on myself. I'm a Paul Trim Blade book.

Elena (66:26)

I like that. I like that a lot.

Ash (66:28)

That's amazing.

Elena (66:30)

So I think we're all picking the Haunted Janitor sequel for sure. In one night. I love it. Yeah.

Ash (66:37)

Well, thank you so much for entertaining that. That was so much fun to play play.

Elena (66:39)

That was awesome.

Grady (66:40)

Oh, yeah. No, I thought I was like, where's more? Let's go.

Ash (66:43)

We do have some B questions.

Elena (66:45)

We have some B squad questions that we have.

Grady (66:47)

Oh, give me a B. Give me, give me. Let's do two B squad questions.

Ash (66:50)

Awesome.

Elena (66:50)

Let's go. All right, which ones are we picking?

Ash (66:52)

All right, let's see. Oh, this is fun. Would you rather have to share a haunted office with a poltergeist who throws books when they're bored or One who insists on hosting dramatic table readings every.

Grady (67:03)

Night at 3am Dramatic table readings. I am really fussy about my books. Like, I don't like danged corners and stuff. So, yeah, table reading.

Ash (67:13)

And that'd just be fun. At 3am yeah, that'd be a crazy table read.

Elena (67:17)

It really would. And I'm the same way with my books. Like, Ash can tell.

Ash (67:21)

Like, I'm not allowed to borrow Elena's books.

Elena (67:23)

I can't because I hate when people fold a page or anything. It freaks me out.

Ash (67:28)

I know. I'm sorry.

Grady (67:29)

Also, like, you know, I really want the. I want to know the dynamics of this table read. You know? Like, I have to read the stage directions again.

Elena (67:39)

I would love.

Grady (67:40)

Why can't I play a part this time?

Elena (67:43)

I really like that, actually. That'd be a lot of fun. I'm definitely for that because you're not throwing my books.

Ash (67:49)

All three of us can be at the table reading.

Grady (67:50)

Yeah. Okay, bring me. Bring me one more here. These are great.

Elena (67:53)

All right, one more. Would you rather be haunted by a ghost who won't stop changing the endings of your. Your books or one who constantly whispers.

Ash (68:03)

Plot hole, plot hole while you write that?

Grady (68:07)

Okay, one. I'm very picky about my endings, and they're very hard for me. I'm not good at it. So. No, that first one's out. Second off. That's inside of my head anyways. Yeah, it's just, like, echoing on this side right now. And, yeah, I've got a running thing down the side of everything. I'm right. Like, go back and fix. This is stupid. This doesn't make sense. Fix this in all caps. Because I feel like making it all caps. Yeah, I'll definitely, like, not ignore it.

Elena (68:37)

There you go. I was thinking the same thing. As soon as I was reading it. I was like, well, I don't need the ghost because my own head is being like, that's a plot hole. That's a major plot hole.

Ash (68:46)

He'll just keep you accountable.

Elena (68:47)

He will, But I'd be pissed. I'd be so pissed at that. I'd be like, I got it. I know.

Ash (68:52)

So are you going anywhere?

Elena (68:55)

I think I would go with ending because maybe he'll have a good idea every once in a while. All right? And I'll be like. Cause I am also not great with endings. I get very overwhelmed by an ending, which is why I just keep going through a series.

Ash (69:09)

They're like, no, it's not over. Ha ha.

Elena (69:11)

I'm like, oh, there's more so maybe he could actually end a book for me and that would be sick. I'd give him credit. All right. Yeah.

Grady (69:19)

Yeah. Actually, that shows a lot of confidence.

Elena (69:21)

Yeah.

Grady (69:22)

And a lack of ego. You know, like you're getting past your own ego and sort of being open to. I think that's really admirable.

Elena (69:29)

Thank you.

Ash (69:30)

He's kind of like, yeah, he might.

Elena (69:32)

Have some good ideas. Like, who am I? I don't know. I don't know his life. That's okay. Yeah.

Ash (69:39)

I haven't written a book, so I don't know about this one. I guess I would go plot hole to keep myself accountable.

Elena (69:48)

Nice.

Ash (69:49)

You know.

Grady (69:49)

Yeah. It's good that you. You're like, I'd probably be taking shortcuts because I have to finish the Haunted Janitor 2 by sunrise.

Ash (69:59)

Yeah, exactly.

Grady (70:00)

Yeah.

Ash (70:01)

Thanks. Thanks to this ghost.

Grady (70:04)

Although I gotta say, if we combined all of these into one, it's like, you know, there's a copy of The Haunted Janitor 2 Do with a Romance subplot running through it, the word slay every now and then, a semicolon at the end of every chapter, and absolutely no plot holes whatsoever.

Elena (70:24)

Yeah.

Ash (70:24)

I would buy that book.

Elena (70:25)

I think we just created a banger, to be honest. I did. We're on that list.

Ash (70:31)

Tm.

Elena (70:32)

There we go.

Ash (70:33)

Tm.

Elena (70:33)

No one take it. It's a great one.

Ash (70:36)

Well, thank you so much for entertaining all that. What do you have to plug anything thing.

Grady (70:41)

I just had a book come out, a non fiction thing called these Fists Break Bricks, which is a history of how kung fu movies came to America. Which even if it doesn't seem like your thing, it's sort of paperback from hell, but for like kung fu movies instead of paperback horror. And that's out now everywhere in a improved edition than the previous one. As in this one's in print and the previous one wasn't.

Elena (71:03)

It's improved.

Grady (71:05)

I'm getting ready for season two of the podcast. I do super scary haunted homeschool. Last season till me. Four years, 13 episodes. I think about vampires. This. We're trying to be more professional. I work with the writers and. Well, not writers, but I work with editors and musicians and all this actors and I think we're gonna have the first episodes out by the end of this year. It's all about haunted houses and I think it'll be done by the end of next year, but it's starting this year, so that's exciting.

Elena (71:33)

I'm excited.

Grady (71:34)

And then hopefully this first draft of this new book will be done by September. And that means hopefully I can convince my editors that it might be able to come out by the end of next year, which would be really nice.

Elena (71:46)

Good luck convincing that.

Ash (71:47)

Good luck.

Grady (71:48)

Yeah, I know, right? They're like, let's move it to fall of 2027. Why did I give up my whole summer?

Ash (71:57)

That all sounds amazing. And guys, always, always, always, if Grady is in a town near you, check out his book events. They are so good. I don't know if we can say it enough.

Grady (72:06)

Truly recommend End it and whisper in my ear. Plot hole. Plot hole.

Ash (72:11)

Yes. While he's signing your book. Do that.

Elena (72:12)

Yes.

Ash (72:14)

So, guys, thank you so much for listening. We hope you keep listening and we.

Elena (72:18)

Hope you keep it weird. You nailed it. You nailed it. You killed it. Thank you so much.

Grady (72:29)

I got one thing right today.

Elena (72:32)

This was so much fun.

Ash (72:33)

No, this was a fun episode.

Elena (72:34)

It really was.

Grady (72:35)

Bye, you guys. Thank you.

Ash (74:01)

If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com Survey Bay.

Grady (74:18)

The town of Agda in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex. But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn. The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption. His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.

Ash (74:40)

Then there's a mysterious various phone calls.

Grady (74:42)

That local people have been getting. I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos as the mayor is unable to carry out his duties. I would like to address you all. Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson and journalist Leo.

Ash (75:00)

Chic for the mystic and the Mayor.

Grady (75:02)

As we investigate a story of power, corruption and magic.

Elena (75:07)

Binge.

Grady (75:07)

All episodes of the mystic and the Mayor exclusively and ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Start your free trial in Apple podcasts, Spotify or the Wondery. Applause.