February Bonus Episode: Smizing Through the Trauma

Summary

Morbid Podcast: February Bonus Episode

Smizing Through the Trauma (February 28, 2026)

Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Episode Theme:
A deep-dive, with Morbid’s signature dark humor, into the recent America’s Next Top Model (ANTM) documentary, “Smizing Through the Trauma.” The hosts (joined by Mikey) reflect on the show’s problematic legacy, examine the disturbing moments highlighted in the documentary, and share their personal reactions as past fans with new, critical eyes.

---

Main Theme & Purpose

This bonus episode explores the cultural impact and hidden traumas behind the reality TV phenomenon America’s Next Top Model. The Morbid hosts dissect the new documentary that reveals the behind-the-scenes manipulation, toxicity, and long-lasting impacts ANTM had on its contestants, especially young women. Using their characteristic blend of research, personal anecdotes, and candid critiques, Ash and Alaina focus on the show’s body shaming, racism, unsafe working conditions, and its failure to support mental health—all wrapped up with their witty banter.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Nostalgia and Initial Reactions

• Both hosts grew up watching ANTM and reflect on its outsized influence over their generation’s body image and self-worth.
  • Ash: “Anybody my age who was watching this back then, like, yeah, that's why we're all up and have body image issues.” (04:26)
  • Mikey shares that when watching reruns with her husband, he was “thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly horrified.” (03:52)

2. Body Shaming and Unrealistic Standards

• The panel consistently labeled women as "plus size" for being a size 6 or above.
  • Ash: “The women that they were calling plus size were literally size six women… that is ridiculous.” (04:49)
  • Elena: “They would refer to them as plus size and make it like a huge problem… girls who were not even plus size, they were like, oh my god, she's getting fat.” (04:54)
• The impact on viewers and contestants, feeling they'd never measure up, is a major point of discussion.

3. The Role of Hierarchy and Power

• The hosts criticize the toxic power structures on set, where contestants (usually teens or just 20) were subjected to older judges’ harsh criticisms and humiliations.
  • Elena: “Not for nothing... 18-19-year-olds getting criticized by 40-year-old men.” (05:34)
  • Ash compares it to toxic hierarchies she experienced in the hair industry (07:22) and how these dynamics emboldened predatory or abusive behavior.

4. The Shandy Incident (Sexual Assault & Exploitation) [09:10]

• They discuss the revelation that Shandy, a contestant accused on-air of cheating, was in fact sexually assaulted during filming, and producers repackaged it as drama for ratings.
  • Shandy’s quote: “I didn’t even feel sex happening. I just knew it was happening and then I passed out.” (09:53)
  • Elena: “They filmed the entire thing… then made it into a cheating scandal.” (09:40)
• Tyra Banks is heavily criticized for confronting Shandy on this subject as if it were her fault and later making Shandy re-watch the footage on The Tyra Banks Show:
  • Elena: “Tyra made her fucking watch it and then was like, what do you think about that? I was like, you’re diabolical.” (11:03)

5. Insensitive and Dangerous Photo Shoots [11:20]

• Hosts recap numerous disturbing themes:
  • Blackface and race-swapping shoots (11:26, 11:47)
  • Photo shoots forcing contestants to pose as murder victims immediately after personal tragedies (13:48), including JL and Kaelin.
  • Stigmatized stereotypes: making models pose as “drug addicts,” “bulimics,” or “unhoused people”
  • Dangerous shoots and runways: freezing pools (Carrie D. getting hypothermia—28:13), runways with pendulums and on docks where contestants could drown (27:09)
  • Body-shaming through photo edits—zooming in on stomachs, editing “eating” behavior to make normal acts look excessive. (23:38)

6. Racism and Misogyny on Set

• Black contestants were routinely called “ashy,” “angry,” or told they were “too African”—by both Black and white judges (18:50-20:22).
  • Elena: “They had a designer come in and was like, you're just... yelling of your Africanness too much.” (20:09)
  • YaYa, Ebony, and others faced both coded and explicit racism, which the show either ignored or weaponized for storylines.

7. Victim-Blaming and Sexual Harassment [24:02]

• Contestant Kenya’s experience of on-set harassment is a prime example:
  • Ash: “If the male model is grabbing you take him off. And she says she’s uncomfortable. Goodbye.” (25:01)
  • Tyra and Nigel lecture Kenya in judging to “control” the situation and “keep it light” when dealing with harassment.
  • Elena: “We don’t want to make the man who’s touching without your permission to be uncomfortable with the situation. Yes, we do.” (26:32)

8. Humiliation as Entertainment (Tiffany's Elimination) [35:46]

• A major point is Tyra’s viral outburst at contestant Tiffany, once celebrated as “rooting for you,” now viewed as a public shaming:
  • “Humiliating… she also sits there and, like, humiliates her family… you don't take it to that level no matter what. And you don't, in the middle of that, take it to a place of talking about her family situation. No, that's none of your fucking business.” (37:42–38:01)
• The hosts stress the double standards for how women are expected to handle rejection—don’t show anger, but also don’t be too composed.

9. Contestant Wellbeing and Aftercare

• Eliminated girls were sequestered in hotel rooms, not sent home, compounding their trauma and isolation (30:52).
• There were no mental health professionals involved, despite clear risks and emotional manipulation (31:26).

10. Industry Gaslighting and Tyra’s Accountability [39:04]

• Tyra’s documentary appearances are called out as dismissive and insincere.
  • Ash: “You basically said, well, it was of the time. It was. Production was there.” (39:09)
  • Elena: “You answered for nothing.” (39:03)
• Tyra’s inaction after learning about the realities her contestants would face post-show (esp. as “reality TV” models faced different, worse opportunities) is a crucial critique.
  • Ash: “This was never a show for young aspiring models. This was a show to humiliate women…” (43:09)

11. Memorable, Empathetic Contestant Stories

• Danielle: Pressured to close her tooth gap (40:14) and lose her accent (41:23) but stood firm.
• Takara: Targeted for her body and personality, given no wardrobe options, then blamed for not “selling” the photos (43:38).
• Many contestants have since spoken out in the documentary and beyond, sharing ongoing effects.

12. Looking Forward

• The hosts express anticipation for the next documentary with more contestant voices (44:52), eager for more in-depth survivors’ stories and possible redemption arcs (esp. with Janice Dickinson).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On “plus size”:
  • Ash: “The women that they were calling plus size were literally size six women… that is ridiculous.” (04:49)
• On hierarchy:
  • Elena: “I don’t understand hierarchy systems. I logically don’t understand hierarchy systems.” (07:49)
• On Shandy’s assault:
  • Shandy (quoted): “I didn’t even feel sex happening. I just knew it was happening and then I passed out.” (09:53)
• On Tyra’s lack of accountability:
  • Elena: “You answered for nothing.” (39:03)
• Regarding the show’s legacy:
  • Ash: “This was never a show for young aspiring models. This was a show to humiliate women…” (43:09)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:52 – Mikey’s first impressions & partner’s horror watching ANTM
• 04:26–05:00 – Body image issues and “plus size” label
• 09:10–11:10 – The Shandy situation (sexual assault and its handling)
• 11:20–15:00 – Offensive and exploitative photo shoots, blackface, dangerous conditions
• 18:50–20:51 – Racism, code-switching, and the show’s approach toward Black contestants
• 24:02–26:32 – Kenya’s harassment on set, victim-blaming, Tyra’s advice
• 28:13–28:57 – Carrie D. gets hypothermia but is blamed for “not knowing her limits”
• 35:46–38:01 – The infamous “We were rooting for you!” Tiffany elimination
• 40:14–41:42 – Danielle stands firm about her gap and accent
• 43:09 – The show’s central problem, summed up

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Tone & Style

The conversation is raw, heartfelt, humorous, and at times biting, as the hosts process their shared (and generational) nostalgia for ANTM alongside the disturbing realities revealed in the documentary. Ash and Alaina lean into honesty and empathy, regularly referencing moments that were normalized back in the 2000s but are now clearly harmful.

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Final Reflections & Next Episode Tease

• Both hosts agree the ANTM documentary is "disturbing" and "eye-opening" (48:34).
• They promise a follow-up episode when the next documentary—focusing even more on former contestants’ perspectives—airs in March.
• The March bonus episode (March 31, 2026) will have a special guest (Chef Riley Meehan) and focus on Post Mortem by Patricia Cornwell.

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In Summary

This bonus episode of Morbid is a nuanced, irreverent, and powerful reckoning with a major pop culture moment. The hosts tear apart ANTM’s toxic legacy while showing empathy for its contestants, asking hard questions about how reality TV has shaped public attitudes on beauty, consent, race, and ambition. The detailed recap and critique will help listeners (especially Millennials) process their own relationship to the show—and look forward to further conversations as more survivors speak out.

Transcript

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[Elena]

Hey weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. The bonus episode.

[Ash]

It's a bonus. It's a crazy bonus. It's a bonus about Top Model. That was crazy in the day.

[Elena]

I've been waiting to talk about this.

[Ash]

I literally am so excited. I don't know if I already said this on the pod, but I have not stopped going around my house saying, how many people were afraid?

[Elena]

And holding your hand up.

[Ash]

And holding my hand up. How many people were afraid? And Drew can't stop going. Today we're gonna learn about acting. Just please picture Drew roaming around my home just randomly, just yelling.

[Elena]

Today we're gonna learn about acting. Also, we're thinking about possibly recording our bonus episodes on video in the future. Just so you know, I was just thinking about it. Cause that movement been really good in the hand. So just know that that's something we're thinking about. I think you guys will dig that because these are usually pretty fun. And you know, we get lively with these.

[Ash]

It just means we have to get dressed more, which I did today. So we should have Filmed. But you're still swollen.

[Elena]

It's fine.

[Ash]

You know, you're beautiful still.

[Elena]

Well, thank you. You're beautiful.

[Ash]

It's true.

[Elena]

You're beautiful. So I watched this in one fell swoop. Me too. But I did it later at night, obviously, when the kids went to sleep and John was with me and my mother in law.

[Ash]

Oh, my God. Karen watched this.

[Elena]

They were both horrified to the point where I was almost embarrassed.

[Ash]

Oh, no. Oh, no. Right?

[Elena]

Mikey agrees.

[Ash]

Mikey had the same experience with Dave, didn't you?

[Elena]

Were you almost embarrassed that you watched the show?

[Mikey]

When Dave and I first started dating, he was like, oh, I'm going to show you all my favorite shows. He's like, what's your favorite show? And I was like, oh, I loved, like, I love this show. And I also love America's Next Top Model.

[Ash]

And it was like, are you.

[Mikey]

Well, like, because we were talking about, like, reality television shows. Because he loves. He is a Top Chef guy.

[Elena]

Oh, I love Top Chef too.

[Mikey]

But like, that, like, America's Next Top Model was like, my. My jam. Yeah. He's like, okay, let's watch it. And we started watching it, and he was like, literally, like, maybe you're not the gentle little lamb that I thought,

[Ash]

oh, like the actual show, Top Model, I'm dead.

[Mikey]

He was like, that'll fry you. Thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly horrified.

[Ash]

I was watching this as like a. I actually remember when I lived at ma and papa's house back when we, like when I was little, little me and my mom did. We would all watch it in the living room, remember, which is wild. Like, as I was falling asleep. So I watched this when I was like five, I think, or maybe like a little bit older, but so not okay. Then I think it started getting like, syndicated to, like, it was either MTV or VH1. And I really watched it a ton in, like, middle school.

[Elena]

Y. The worst time to watch it.

[Ash]

Anybody my age who was watching this back then, like, yeah, that's why we're all up and have body image issues and all this. Oh, yeah, it's horrible. Because also the women that they were referring to as plus size. Can we. I'm sorry, can we just start off right there?

[Elena]

We sure can.

[Ash]

The women, they. I am a plus sized woman. The women that they were calling plus size were literally size six women.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Size six is not plus size. That is ridiculous.

[Elena]

Well, not only that, they would refer to them as plus size and make it like a hu.

[Ash]

Like you're pro. It's gonna be hard for you to find work and then the girls who were not even considered plus size, but like that they were sitting there being like, oh my God, she's getting fat.

[Elena]

She's huge.

[Ash]

We're literally like size 2. Very like normal, typical looking girls, beautiful bodies.

[Elena]

Like I just. And to have a bunch. It was like one thing to have a bunch of other women critique your body, which is already bad enough. But then to have a bunch of men also sit there in front of you on a panel and be like, yeah, she's getting fat. It's like all y', all. Sorry.

[Ash]

Not for nothing, like, obviously all of these girls were like 18 plus, but like 189 year olds getting criticized by 40 year old men.

[Elena]

Weird. Very weird.

[Ash]

Weird, Upsetting.

[Elena]

Very weird. And Ken Mock in that documentary.

[Ash]

Okay, yeah, let's start off there.

[Mikey]

Hold on.

[Ash]

I have a quote.

[Elena]

Quote from him comes off. In my opinion, John, literally, horribly John was like, that man is the villain of the century. And he should be like, I don't even know. He should be like, run out of the. Out of town.

[Ash]

Here's a quote to confirm that for you. The biggest disaster ever is always the best thing. People have 104 degree temperature, they're throwing

[Elena]

up, they need IVs.

[Ash]

That's the best news I could ever have.

[Elena]

And I believe that he.

[Ash]

That's a.

[Elena]

He stood ten toes down on that.

[Ash]

That's verbatim. Like, sir.

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[Elena]

Oh, yeah. When we. When they talk about. We'll get into the shandy of it all.

[Ash]

Dude.

[Elena]

The way he handled that, the way

[Ash]

that everybody handled that was fucked. Like it's that poor woman to.

[Elena]

In my opinion. I know everybody is like. Is thinking that the Jays and Nigel are not as bad.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And like I. Here's the thing I will give them. Is that they're at least sitting there and being like, yeah, I should have done something. And I didn't. I think Jay Manuel at one point said like, I wish I had a backbone.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And I'm like, I do too, sir.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Because they're all fucking complicit. You were all there. And it's like, I'm. I don't understand personally. And this is like my own probably character flaw that has served me well in some circumstances, but probably not in others. Like the last place we worked, it did not serve me well. Is I don't understand hierarchy systems. And I don't understand when somebody tells me like, well, this person is just this way and they're above you, so you can't. I'm like, nope. No one is like, I don't believe anyone is.

[Ash]

It was so funny just like in our personal lives to see how that played out because I'm so used to that because I worked in the hair industry. And when you first get into the hair industry, if you want to work anywhere, that's like, you know, top tier, quote unquote. You're an apprentice, you're a fucking peon and you do what you need to do. That has absolutely nothing to do with doing hair to get to the top.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So it was so similar. Like been in that power dynamic before

[Elena]

and I just did not. And I think it's like my, my brain, the way it works, I just, I logically don't understand hierarchy systems.

[Ash]

I think it's your. Your like, justice complex.

[Elena]

Yeah. I think it just does not. It never made sense to me. Yeah. And I think here there's sometimes where you would see like, Tyra, the judges refer to a girl and be like, you have authority problems or problems with authority. And I'm like, no, I think they just don't understand this stupid fucking made up hierar that you have. That means nothing. Like, you're not above anybody. Well.

[Ash]

And Tyra would sit there and be like, you're a model. This is a designer and this is a. Exactly, Tyra. That's the premise of this whole fucking show.

[Elena]

Exactly.

[Ash]

I also have to say I'm actually shocked that Tyra agreed to do this documentary.

[Elena]

I'm very shocked by that.

[Ash]

It was very similar, in my opinion to the. The mom that agreed to do the documentary who was like, catfishing her child.

[Elena]

You're like, why?

[Ash]

Why did you say yes to this?

[Elena]

That's what you. What my mother in law kept asking. She was like, why did she agree to do this?

[Ash]

Because she doesn't come off in the documentary. She comes off awful and she comes off like, very unapologetic.

[Elena]

Ask her about the shandy situation, which again, we're going to go into it. And she literally goes, I wasn't there, remember? But like.

[Ash]

And she's like, I wasn't there, I wasn't there.

[Elena]

And you're like, wow, you don't give a shit at all, huh? Yeah.

[Ash]

I think. Should we really start with the shandy situation?

[Elena]

Because honestly, that was the biggest shock for me.

[Ash]

That broke my heart because I remember and I'm sure you do. Everybody does. Everybody does. Watching that and sitting there going, oh, my God, like, I can't believe she cheated on her boyfriend.

[Elena]

Like, Shandy.

[Ash]

Like, I loved Shandy.

[Elena]

Me too.

[Ash]

I thought she was awesome. And I, even in that moment, like, when I still thought that she was like, damn. Yeah.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You know, like, things happen. She didn't cheat. She was sexually assaulted. Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, and they had. They filmed the entire thing.

[Ash]

Yeah, they. What we saw was such an edited down version of everything that occurred. I actually have a quote from Shandy. I didn't even feel sex happening. I just knew it was happening and then I passed out.

[Elena]

And then they made it into a cheating scandal, complete with Tyra meeting with her the next day and talking about

[Ash]

ending that she didn't know what happened.

[Elena]

Oh, have you ever cheated? You know, I got cheated on. Blah, blah, blah. Like, acting like friends and just being like, you know, I just casually am

[Ash]

bringing up cheating for no reason and

[Elena]

telling her, like, we can't give in to like our carnal desires. You know, like, acting like it was a choice.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And then filming her talking to her boyfriend Eric, who like, obviously was upset at the time and didn't know that that's what happened. Yeah. But then he, like filming her being called a stupid yup by this guy that she had been talking, talking about the whole time she's been on the show and being screamed at and demeaned.

[Ash]

And then not only that, the aftermath. She said she. They tried to work it out. I'm sure she probably went home and explained to him the actual reality of the situation. And they would be out in public and people would walk by her and call her like a slut and stuff. Like, she got crazy shots.

[Elena]

Get it together. Yeah. Like, Jesus Christ. But then she went on the Tyra Banks show after that and she told her, I haven't watched it. I can't watch the scene.

[Ash]

I don't want to.

[Elena]

And you can tell she's sitting there being like, I can't watch it because it's traumatizing.

[Ash]

Of course it is.

[Elena]

Tyra made her fucking watch it and then was like, what do you think about that? Like, let's talk about it. I was like, you're diabolical.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

And for someone who's been treated shitty in the industry and like, it says

[Ash]

that and you, that's your whole reason why you created this show.

[Elena]

You're treating them the exact same way, if not worse.

[Ash]

Yeah. And that leads us to all the crazy photo shoots that went down.

[Elena]

The fucking photo shoots, the race swapping ones, straight up blackface.

[Ash]

And they sat there and they were like, they were like, yeah. Like, I think Jay himself in that moment is like, I did not want to do that.

[Elena]

And I'M like. But you did.

[Ash]

Exactly. And which is something. Then they then continued to do similar photo shoots in. In like the cycles afterwards.

[Elena]

They did some where they had women in like Native American headdresses. Yes. They had at least two full on blackface swaps.

[Ash]

Like race swaps.

[Elena]

Like photo shoots where they just like went right for it.

[Ash]

Yep. Those were bad. And then there was also the crime scene shoots that they did.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. Where they were murder victims. Yeah. And it wasn't like. And it was like, this is when they had jl which like, rest in peace, jl.

[Ash]

I know.

[Elena]

JL I thought was so fucking cool.

[Ash]

I thought she was so cool.

[Elena]

I thought she was beautiful.

[Ash]

Yep. All of the above.

[Elena]

It's such a bummer. But she had a friend who died while she was there. She got the news while she was there and her friend had like OD'd, I think. Yep. And then she is in that photo shoot with murder victims or like crime scene victims.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

And she had to do.

[Ash]

I think that was actually the one where they made her an addict, wasn't it?

[Elena]

No, this is the one where they made her like she had died by strangulation.

[Ash]

Oh, is that what it was?

[Elena]

But she still had to do like a death scene shoot. And then that's the same shoot that Dion, which once again, I fucking loved Dion.

[Ash]

When they had girls that they like, particularly hated on, we were like, I fucking love them. I love them.

[Elena]

Dion. When they made them make up new names for themselves. And she called herself Hula. Hey, I will never, ever. I love Dion until the end of time.

[Ash]

Forever. Hula.

[Elena]

Hey, for life. I don't even remember that they had to come up with like model names. And she came up with what World. I love her. I love her for her.

[Ash]

Absolutely iconic.

[Elena]

Her mom, when she was younger died or didn't exist. She was paralyzed, put in a wheelchair because somebody shot her.

[Ash]

And then they made her be a victim.

[Elena]

They made her be a shooting victim. And then criticized her about not being dead enough in the. In the. It was. It was like.

[Ash]

Yeah, sorry. I was just kind of going through it. Then on top of that, Kalin from another cycle, her friend, she got similarly to JL News that her friend died and they had her pose in a grave.

[Elena]

In a grave that was like eight feet deep. Yeah.

[Ash]

Like truly.

[Elena]

Well, they also had. They did a shoot with unhoused and made them dress up as unhoused people. And they had to do it with actual unhoused people in the background. Yeah. Yep, Yep. They also did one model stereotypes where, like, I remember Meg, which also. I loved Meg. Meg was like the rock and roll.

[Ash]

Yes, I loved her.

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[Elena]

I thought she was so awesome. She had to be a drug addict. And her photo was her with her,

[Ash]

like, a needle hanging out of her

[Elena]

arm and her, like, strung out.

[Ash]

And they had another one. I can't remember. There was a set of twins.

[Elena]

I think bulimia was one of them.

[Ash]

Bulimia.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

One of them had to pose. Would literally, like, cake all over her face in a. In a stall of a bathroom. It was fucking crazy.

[Elena]

Crazy.

[Ash]

Just like.

[Elena]

And we're all watching this at the time, like, just being like, whoa, this is nuts. Because also, none of those photo shoots were you. Like, their portfolios were not usable. Because that's not what models.

[Ash]

Because they were so insane. Like, everybody was like. And I think, like, the makeup really wasn't good. The editing on the photos weren't good.

[Elena]

No. I think Danielle, they picked the bad photos.

[Ash]

They picked bad photos on purpose, like you were saying. I think it's during Jade, the undiscovered supermodel, they play her commercial. I think it was like a maybe CoverGirl commercial. CoverGirl commercial. And she's like, that's my worst take. And Tyra gets pissed, and she's like, how many of you felt that it was your worst take? And literally everybody. And it's like they did it on purpose, not go to show you that that's what was happening. Remember when doing your taxes meant handing over a pile of papers and then just wondering. Now with TurboTax Full Service, it's so much easier. They have local experts near you who do your taxes, getting you every deduction while you go on about your day. And they keep you updated in the app so you're never left wondering. Through February 28th, hand off your taxes to an expert in person or online for 150 all in. If a turbo tax expert didn't file for you Last year, visit turbotax.com local to book an appointment.

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[Elena]

I always thought that, too. I'd be like. I remember seeing better photos while watching the show, while they're taking the photos, and then you get the photo at the end and you're like.

[Ash]

It's like a blooper. You're like, why is she sneezing?

[Elena]

But I feel like one like. Speaking of Jade, the undiscovered supermodel. One of the undiscovered supermodel. Personally, I fucking love Jade.

[Ash]

Jade was wild.

[Elena]

Jade, if you're out there, I love

[Ash]

you, Jade, I hope you're discovered now.

[Elena]

I think Jade was a badass. I think she was. Of course, she had her moments. Everybody does. She was young.

[Ash]

Jade was. Remember, she was so mean to Gina.

[Elena]

She was really mean to Gina.

[Ash]

But I think also they were, like, definitely set against.

[Elena]

They were setting that shit up. Yeah. That was not her best. Those were the moments. I was not Team Jade. No. But Team Jade for her confidence.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

And Team Jade for, like, she was pretty fucking funny. Well, when she's talking about being in, like. I think they were called, like, tut Tuts. The car. Do you remember? No. It's when she's sitting there and she's like, I didn't. I. Like, she. She didn't want to be in this, like, open car because they were in, like, Thailand, I think.

[Ash]

Yeah. I think they're in Thailand.

[Elena]

And the way she says it, she's like in the. In the toot toot. And then she's like hoopty.

[Ash]

She's like, I don't.

[Elena]

Some reason. That one shot of her made me laugh so hard. Like, her personality is funny. And they gave her the villain edit because she was confident.

[Ash]

Yeah, no, they absolutely did. And they always just were like, jade, you look like you're 40. Jade, you look so old. Meanwhile, Jade had, like, gorgeous skin.

[Elena]

Yeah, she was beautiful.

[Ash]

Gorgeous eyes. She was gorgeous.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous.

[Elena]

It was. Jade was one of the ones that got that edit. Camille, I think watch the Camille season again. Camille gets fucking railroaded. Camille was just confident. She was pretty fucking quiet and to herself, and everyone was just fucking mean as hell to her. Same thing with.

[Ash]

With Ebony Ebony.

[Elena]

That drove me. They called her Ashy.

[Ash]

They called her Tyra.

[Elena]

Tyra called her a fellow black woman. And she had some of the most beautiful skin I'd ever seen.

[Ash]

Gorgeous skin.

[Elena]

She was a beautiful woman.

[Ash]

They also, during the makeover, which the makeovers were literally to personally victimize these women, they ripped her hair out of her head and were just literally sitting there talking about how awful her hair texture was, how none of them knew how to do it. And she's sitting there while they're talking over her head and, like.

[Elena]

Like, up her hair, and she still looked gorgeous.

[Ash]

She. I was gonna say she still looked great, but they ripped her hair out of her.

[Elena]

But that was. It was. The other one was Jaslene. When she came the first time, she had this big personality, and they all over her for it. And then she comes back and kind of tones it down, and they're like, where's your crazy personality? And she's like, what do you want? Like, what the fuck?

[Ash]

There was another girl. I can't remember her name, but she went super. I think it was Jenna. Remember Jenna? She had, like, great pictures and she went really far and was, like, very talented. And they were just like, yeah, you're boring. So they eliminated her.

[Elena]

Molly sue was the same. Yeah, Molly Sue, I thought, was such a good. And they were like, we don't know. We don't get it. I don't get what you are. And was it Yaya was another one.

[Ash]

Yaya. She made a career for herself, honey.

[Elena]

Good for Yaya. And they were so. They were also wildly racist to her.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah.

[Elena]

They had a designer come in and was like, you're just, like, yelling of your Africanness too much. And it was this white designer, like, our stylist, who was like, yeah, like, nobody wants to just, like, be hit over the head with that.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Elena]

And then when she would get, like, upset and defensive about that because, like,

[Ash]

that's fucked up, because you shouldn't experience racism.

[Elena]

Well. And then she would just get the angry black woman thing where they were just like, you're being kind of defensive, and it's like, nope, she's just being a human being.

[Ash]

It's like, tyra, you're a black woman.

[Elena]

What the are you doing? Like, why are you.

[Ash]

She. Tyra herself says that's part of the reason she set out to do this show in the first place. And, like, she wanted to expose this part of the fashion industry, but change it.

[Elena]

It's like, baby, you just exposed yourself.

[Ash]

Because similarly, Cycle seven, Jada Young, she had to film with a racist male model.

[Elena]

This drove me crazy.

[Ash]

He literally. They're all sitting at dinner because, like, some member, they would, like, go out with the male models, like, before, after the shoot. This one was before. And he literally looks at her and says, like, basically, I don't like black women.

[Elena]

He literally said that.

[Ash]

And she's like, oh, that's insane. That we have to. I think they literally had to kiss. Yeah, they did the next day. And then she got eliminated then for that commercial that she, like, you didn't

[Elena]

kiss him good enough. Which.

[Ash]

Yeah. Because she was uncomfortable because he was a racist. Racist.

[Elena]

And she told you guys. And everybody was like, yeah. The way they would react to that stuff. They were like, yeah. I don't know. That's just, like, stupid. You have to get through it.

[Ash]

And it's like, you don't.

[Elena]

Oh, my God. So Kenya. I loved Kenya.

[Ash]

I loved Kenya, too.

[Elena]

I think Kenya is. I thought she was stunner then. I think she's a stunner now.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

I thought she. She was a plus. I thought she could have won that. But I also loved Naima.

[Ash]

But I loved Naima. She was gorgeous.

[Elena]

But Kenya was told constantly that she

[Ash]

was fat, which was absolutely insane.

[Elena]

Janice. The amount of times that she was like, she's too fat, she's too fat, she's too fat. I'm like, she's beautiful.

[Ash]

She said she should be. What was the car thing that she said?

[Elena]

Is it. Did she say it about her?

[Ash]

I think it was about Kenya that she said that.

[Elena]

I don't remember what it was. She.

[Ash]

It was horrible things to women.

[Elena]

But they had. So they would call her out for this, and then they had her. During the seven deadly sins, be gluttony and make her lay in a coffin with garbage food all over her in, like, a ridiculous get up. Yeah, ridiculous.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And holding a donut in her hand. And so she looks campy. Like, she did what she could with the styling she was given. I thought she did a great job. Yeah. And they were like. They were all over this. Basically saying she looks like a drag queen. And it was like, okay, shut up. Like, one, that's not an insult. And two, you styled her that way. She didn't get dressed. Like, you put her in there, and then she's, like, holding the donut. And Tyra was like, after they've told her she's fat and disgusting.

[Ash]

Yep. And like, they literally were like, you need to watch your weight while you're here. Like, be careful. Yeah.

[Elena]

And they were like. She literally says, I would have liked to see the donut hanging out of your mouth. Why? So you could have shit on her about that.

[Ash]

That's exactly why she wanted that.

[Elena]

And then they go to Africa, and everybody else is a, you know, a gazelle, a fucking giraffe.

[Ash]

Like, these gorgeous, beautiful creatures.

[Elena]

An ostrich. Yeah. They make her a fucking elephant. And don't you dare tell me that that was like, whoops, that just happened. Oh, God damn. And then they shit all over, telling her they had to retouch her so much and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, what are you getting out of this?

[Ash]

They also would, like, zoom in on her stomach and, like, when she was, like, in a weird position so it would make her still look like a normal person. But it wasn't, like, the greatest angle. And she's like. They would zoom in. They edited her. Edited her eating a bagel so it looked like she ate three bagels. And she's like, that was the same bagel. They just made it seem like I was just pounding bagels to the face.

[Elena]

Yeah, damn.

[Ash]

Even if she was, who cares? But why are you doing that?

[Elena]

Well, and on the subject of Kenya in Africa, they did this shoot where they were dancing with, like, three guys. And this one model, Bertini, was already all over her and making her uncomfortable. And they're doing this dancing thing, and he's touching her and, like, grinding up, and he's like, grunting and shit in her face.

[Ash]

Like, she's moaning in her ear.

[Elena]

So she did what any woman could. Should be able to do and said, pause. Hey, I'm a little uncomfortable right now. He's kind of, like, groaning up on me. I'm very uncomfortable. First of all, they were all aggravated by her stopping. Like, Jay can pretend that he wishes he had done something. I'm sure he does. But he needs to own the fact that at the moment, he was. He seemed annoyed that she had stopped and everybody else did, too.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Elena]

And they basically were like, yeah, okay. At one point, Jay had to say, like, don't grab her. Maybe stop grabbing her ass. Maybe, like he was. And it's like, what you. So you see that it's a problem.

[Ash]

You take him off set.

[Elena]

If the guy.

[Ash]

If the male model is grabbing you take him off. And she says she's uncomfortable. Goodbye.

[Elena]

And I will say, Jay said in an interview he wished he had a backbone during that. And he wished he had said stop and taken him off set. And it's like, that's Nice that you recognize that now, but, like, that already. Where were you? In the moment when she was dealing with it.

[Ash]

And she literally. Kenya sat there and said during the shoot, she was nervous about stopping the shoot because, like, as women, you never want to bother anybody or, you know, say, something's happening. And she said to herself, what would Tyra do?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And I think this is how Tyra would handle.

[Elena]

Hey, I would, like. And they shit all over her for it.

[Ash]

And Tyra herself was like, no.

[Elena]

In judging. They literally were like. So she was like, hey, so this was happening. First of all, they picked a photo where he was touching her, literally grabbing her leg. Like, literally grabbing her leg.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

And she's like, that wasn't a coincidence.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

And they basically tell her, like, Nigel's like, well, you need to be in control in that situation.

[Ash]

It's like, sometimes I'm not.

[Elena]

And also, I'm sorry, man. You can't tell a woman I need to be in control there when I'm trying to take control.

[Ash]

That's the thing.

[Elena]

She tried to take control. No one's doing anything. And he's sitting there being like, there's cameras all around. There's people. People all around. Yeah. No one protected her.

[Ash]

That's the problem.

[Elena]

You're all sitting there saying, oh, well, there's so many people around. Why was she feeling uncomfortable? Because a whole sea of people were doing nothing to protect her. That's why she felt uncomfortable. And then Tyra sits there and says, well, you can do it and say, like, you know, boy, you better, like, back up off me. But she's like, but do it in a fun way where it doesn't put static in the air.

[Ash]

Stop sexual harassment in a fun way.

[Elena]

Well, we don't want to make the sexual harasser keep it light. We don't want to do that. We don't want to make the man who's touching without your permission to be uncomfortable with the situation. Yes, we do.

[Ash]

Like, take him offset.

[Elena]

And there's so many times during this where it was like, you are peons, and you should endure this behavior because this.

[Ash]

And also, it's like, this is the industry, people to sign up for this.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And this is the way you're treating them.

[Elena]

That.

[Ash]

And you're sitting here, like, again, saying, you want to expose the industry.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You're being the industry.

[Elena]

Exactly so. And also, the amount of dangerous runways. They put these women runways and photo shoots.

[Rover Advertiser]

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[Elena]

The runways, though, like the Pendulum one.

[Ash]

The Pendulum one could have killed.

[Elena]

That's insane. There Was also one where they had to walk on, like, docks on the water.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

The Runway was on the water. And one of them had her hands. Like, there was, like, no, like, way

[Ash]

for them to be apart.

[Venmo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, she couldn't have power. It was, like, a straight jacket almost in front of her. So if she fell, she's drowning. Yo. Like, what the fuck?

[Ash]

Mikey pointed out my favorite photo shoot, I do have to say, but the one where. Who is it? Melrose In.

[Elena]

Oh, yes.

[Ash]

Carrie D. Carrie D. And they're. All the lights go off, and they're, like, running through the fashion show is the brides. I loved that.

[Elena]

Which also.

[Ash]

Melrose.

[Elena]

Melrose. She got a bad rep. Melrose is another one.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And I think Melrose should have won. To be quite honest. I liked Carrie. I really did. But I think Melrose was. I think she was robbed, and I think she was given such a villain edit that whole season. I remember you were. And I were talking about it when we originally watched it. I was like, such a. And now I watch it, and I'm like, what the hell was I thinking?

[Ash]

You're like, it goes from Melrose is such a. To Melrose is that bitch.

[Elena]

She is that bitch. Because then we go for, like, that same season, Carrie D. Like, when they did that photo shoot in the pool and she got legitimate hypothermia.

[Ash]

The fact that a woman literally got hypothermia.

[Elena]

And they were, like, annoyed.

[Ash]

The whole. I think the whole premise of that photo shoot was like, we're gonna subject you to extreme temperatures because that's being a model.

[Elena]

Yeah. Get in this freezing cold pool.

[Ash]

And then they blamed her at judging when she was like, yeah, I got hypothermia. Isn't that crazy? They were like, you really need to know your limits. Yeah.

[Elena]

And she was like, but I thought you would get mad at me if I stopped.

[Ash]

And I think she did try to stop or, like, at, like, pause at least. And they were like, okay.

[Elena]

Like, you're being.

[Ash]

And then they're like, know your limits. Like, she's like, I tried to tell you my limits, and you were mad.

[Elena]

Like, excuse me. And the same thing with Cara D. That always annoyed me was what? It. It was during the. The thing where they had to pretend to be, like, matadors.

[Ash]

Oh, my God. When she told Nigel to take the stick out of his ass. That's one of my favorite scenes.

[Elena]

All she said during that was, oh, did you take that out of your ass since last panel?

[Ash]

That was hilarious.

[Elena]

Get over yourself. That's a funny joke. They lit her up. Up. Yeah.

[Ash]

She almost got eliminated over.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. And, like, they lit her up over that. I was like, I thought that we could take a joke. I thought that was a funny joke.

[Ash]

I thought that was hilarious.

[Mikey]

It's because it's a man.

[Elena]

That's true. He was not happy.

[Ash]

Fun fact. I once saw Nigel at the airport.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

I didn't say hi to him.

[Elena]

I forgot about that.

[Ash]

I feel like he. I don't know Nigel, but I. I didn't feel like I wanted to be

[Elena]

like, oh, my God.

[Ash]

Like, I don't know.

[Elena]

Hi. You don't say anything to me.

[Ash]

Yeah, but I saw him in a restaurant.

[Elena]

I. Yeah, I thought that. I thought that joke was supposed to be lighthearted and funny. It was like, I will say maybe Nigel handled it even, I'll say, a little better than they did at panel.

[Ash]

I don't even remember. I think he just kind of took

[Elena]

her aside and was like, you don't really know me, so, like, don't make that joke. But then at panel, they, like, really shat all over because then they turned it into. He turned it into like, hey, you just don't know me. So, like, making that joke is weird to make when you don't know me.

[Ash]

Yeah. Which is fair.

[Elena]

Which I can get on board. But that panel, they were like, he's a photographer, and you're a little. And you're not allowed to do that, and it's okay. Can we not turn it into that and just make it like, hey, you don't know me, so don't make that joke?

[Ash]

Everything became a hierarchy, though.

[Elena]

Yeah, it was. I mean, remember Brooke, who was like, just great. She was literally dying, and they sent her home the day she was graduating high school.

[Ash]

That was this. Okay. Not only that, by the way, they didn't send these girls home. I remember. And obviously all of us watching were like, oh, my God, like, now they're on a plane and going home, and that's so sad.

[Elena]

Nope.

[Ash]

They got sequestered. So they literally just moved out of the model house and into, like, hotel rooms.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So they had to film packing their bags, and then they just had to sit in hotel rooms for the rest of the season so that they, like, didn't tell anybody else what had happened.

[Elena]

Like, couldn't go home, couldn't, and couldn't

[Ash]

call anybody or anything like that. That's so, like, your dreams as, like, an 18 to, like, early 20 something girl just got absolutely crushed. And now you're just sitting Alone in a hotel room.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

After they've probably promoted that. Like, you should have an eating disorder.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like, that's good.

[Elena]

That's great.

[Ash]

That's awesome.

[Elena]

That's very cool.

[Ash]

Was there any mental health people?

[Elena]

No, no, of course not. No. And it's like, I feel like they would do that on purpose. Like, Brooke getting sent home on the day she was graduating high school. Absolutely.

[Ash]

That's not a.

[Elena]

And then I think Tyler was like, you graduated. You just didn't walk. I' like, you're an. And. And also for. I think she was eliminated for a photo shoot that they had to do with Fabio. And I was like, she's like a baby.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And this is like a romance shoot with Fabio. Like, are we really. That's where we're sending her home. She couldn't get that into it with Fabio, and she's a literal child.

[Ash]

Well, now, like, can we.

[Elena]

Can we take it down a notch, everybody?

[Ash]

Other thing, too.

[Elena]

They would.

[Ash]

It would be like, if you were, like, too into it, they were like, well, this reads porno.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

And then if you weren't into it, they were like, well, this looks like.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

And they were like, it was very hard to find the middle ground of where you were supposed to be, like, sexy enough, but, like, not too sexy or not too little.

[Elena]

Some girls, they would literally be like, she has zero sex appeal. Which I was like, whoa.

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[Ash]

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[Elena]

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[Elena]

Angel soft.

[Ash]

Soft and strong.

[Elena]

And then it's weird to be talking about, like, freshly out of high school young girls in those terms where they would, like, there was One the season with like Marjorie and Samantha. She's like tall, blonde, just out of high school. Literally months earlier, she. They did a Jeremy Scott Runway show.

[Ash]

Jeremy.

[Elena]

And they were blindfolded. Jeremy with his.

[Ash]

With his mullet bangs.

[Elena]

Mullet ass. He. The way he talked to this girl, I was like, shame, shame. Because they. I seeing a panel of adults sit there and allow these women to. These young women, girls to be talked to and humiliated like this should. They should be ashamed of themselves.

[Ash]

Absolutely.

[Elena]

And again, I don't get the hierarchy here at all. Because she was. They did the Runway show, apparently everything was fine. She gets in there blindfolded in the Runway because of course that's real obvious, obviously. And she gets to the end and she puts her hands on her hips and she kind of like moves her hips back and forth. And it was a short dress, so it slightly rode up. Not even like crazy.

[Ash]

But mind you, he said, show me your personality.

[Elena]

At the panel. He sits there and said, this girl is fresh out of high school, months out of high school. He berates her, tells her it's not her show, she's not a rock star. You. And then he goes, I don't know. Did you see a pole at the end of the Runway? Oh, I'm sorry, are you saying that to a freshly 18 year old, you piece of shit?

[Ash]

Yeah, that's just funny.

[Elena]

Like, that's the weirdest shit to say to someone. First of all, to say that to any woman. You.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Elena]

You.

[Ash]

Yo.

[Elena]

And then two, to say that to a young girl. Check yourself.

[Ash]

And the other thing that you were

[Elena]

saying earlier, several times he did it was. He said. He said that she was a combination of a truck driver and a stripper.

[Ash]

Jesus Christ. Yeah, you were saying it too. She had met him before and she really admired him. Like, she liked his.

[Elena]

She said they had a great conversation

[Ash]

and they had a great combo. And then she thought it was a. And like just fucking humiliates her on national television.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

Wild.

[Elena]

Wild.

[Ash]

Speaking of humiliating people on national television, we would be absolutely remiss to not mention the Tiffany of it all. Which, by the way, in. They touch on it in the. In the documentary series. So much of that flip out that Tyra had was edited down.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And they literally said that, I think it was Mr. J. Said that lawyers were on.

[Elena]

Oh yeah.

[Ash]

The next day. And there's been a couple models that have come out since the documentary aired and said like, you would not believe some of the things that were said,

[Elena]

which I'm like, what the Was that

[Ash]

and I. I don't know if they had to sign, like, NDAs or something. Like, it's like.

[Elena]

And here's the problem. Tiffany. So she got eliminated. She walked over to the girls. She was kind of joking with them, being like, it's okay, it's okay. She was. They're teaching these girls. One of the thing they're trying to teach them is to take rejection because they're going to face it a lot. So she's handling the rejection. She's saying, you know what? It's okay. It's fine. Like, just being chill.

[Ash]

Prior to that also, by the way, Tiffany had done. So Tiffany had literally completed anger management courses because, like, she was struggling with her anger. And she came back for a second time and killed it and killed it. Got eliminated and handled it really well.

[Elena]

Yeah, like, that should have been like. Actually, she should have pulled, to be honest. Should have pulled her back up there. Been like, tiffany, I'm really fucking proud of you for how you handled this.

[Ash]

Right. Like, you've come so far.

[Elena]

This shows me that you're gonna go far because you have taken what you have learned and you just applied it here, like, good on you. But that's what it should have been. Instead, Tyra's pissed that she didn't break into a thousand pieces in front of her. And so she decided, well, I'm gonna make her break into a thousand pieces in front of her. And she fucking rails into her. I mean, I've never in my life yelled at a girl like this. That's where the. We were rooting for you. We're all rooting. How dare you. Comes from humiliating.

[Ash]

She also sits there and, like, humiliates her family. She's like, your grandmother got her lights turned off for this. For you to be in this competition.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like, and you don't take it to a place. You don't take it to that level no matter what. And you don't, in the middle of that, take it to a place of talking about her family situation. No, that's none of your fucking business.

[Elena]

And she handled the rejection humbly. She did. Like, I loved Tiffany. I thought she was hilarious. I really liked her and I just. I could. Not that. That stressed me out when I watched it when it was on, and it stresses me out now when I watch it. I can't. That's so humiliating and demeaning. Yeah. And then for Tyra to just kind of be like, eh. Like, she really. She sat there in her. Everyone was saying her Inspector Gadget fucking trench coat she gave up nothing. She gave up.

[Ash]

She really did.

[Elena]

At one point, she says, you know what? You're all gonna have to face some shit sometime. And I hope you do it with, like, grace. Essentially being like, I didn't come up

[Ash]

with a show about young models. I did not come up with crazy ass, like, hair makeovers and cold pools and shit. Like, babe, I'm not gonna get called out for that.

[Elena]

I wasn't sitting there calling all these girls fat.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

Like, while saying that you wanted to

[Ash]

change the industry and sitting there saying, like, I hope you all have to answer. Tyra, you didn't answer for anything.

[Elena]

You answered for nothing.

[Ash]

You basically said, well, it was of the time. It was. Production was there.

[Elena]

Yeah, it wasn't me. I don't know. It was just real shitty.

[Ash]

Or the. What was the. Was it the Tiffany thing? No, it was the Shandy thing that she said she didn't want to talk about.

[Elena]

She literally goes. She was like, yeah, I kind of remember what happened. Yeah. With. With Shandy.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Elena]

And then it was the J thing. She didn't want to talk about the J thing.

[Ash]

She didn't want to talk about. The thing that I just thought was the absolute funniest thing throughout the entire documentary was at the end when Tyra was like. And, like, when you get called out, blah, blah, blah. And then the screen was like. And Danielle was like, that's a bunch of.

[Elena]

I love Danielle.

[Ash]

Love Danielle.

[Elena]

Danielle for life. And Danielle, I thought she was a queen then I thought she was a queen now. She is stunning. Yup, Stunning.

[Ash]

I was so happy when they. I was so pissed off that they were trying to get her to close her gap and that she sat there and she stood her ground. She was like, no, I love my Gap. My Gap makes me.

[Elena]

Me. Tyra was so mad. She was seeing this woman sit there confidently saying, I like my gap. Makes me who I am. This is. I'm going to get there with this. Pissed her off so much. You could see it.

[Ash]

Yeah, well, she just wouldn't.

[Elena]

It was.

[Ash]

She was relentless.

[Elena]

She would be like, you really think. And at one point, remember, she stuck her finger in between her teeth and she goes, any really beautiful cover girl, you really think you're gonna be like that? And I was like, fuck you. Meanwhile, such a bitch.

[Ash]

Does anybody get the London look?

[Elena]

Yeah. With the giant Gap.

[Ash]

Gorgeous girl. And then, like, a cut. I don't even know if it was, like, the next season or if it was A couple later, they opened a girl. They gave a girl a huge Ass.

[Elena]

Which shows you exactly what it was all about.

[Ash]

It was wild. And then while we're talking about dental procedures, Joanie Joni's dental procedure, she literally has dental issues with her bite and, like, God only knows what else. To this day, however many years later, they.

[Elena]

Her mouth, they forced veneers onto her teeth, which are so like that. You have to continuously get that fixed.

[Ash]

Do you remember her when they had already shaved her teeth down and they had, like. They had to sit at her home for her to wait. And she's like, and these are her teeth. She's like, look at my teeth.

[Elena]

I was like, God, Jodie. And just having her endure that and

[Ash]

then just pose for a photo shoot the next day.

[Elena]

They also would like. And back to Danielle really quick. What really pissed me off.

[Ash]

Oh, I know exactly where you're going.

[Elena]

How Tyra harped on her fucking act accent and was so mean about it, like, so offensive.

[Ash]

Super offensive.

[Elena]

And would like. And she would, like, mock her and be like, you really think you're gonna get a contract like this? And I was like, oh. Like, I was like, that's where she comes from. Like, you. I love her accent. Yeah.

[Ash]

I love Danielle. I loved her the whole way through.

[Elena]

And when she got. She had to go to the hospital in Thailand.

[Ash]

She had to go to the hospital in Thailand because she had food poisoning, dehydration, and exhaustion.

[Elena]

And Nigel said, you're kind of high maintenance, aren't you?

[Ash]

Nah, I was just sick, bro. And also, if you remember, she left the hospital early. Like, I'm pretty sure against medical advice.

[Elena]

She was.

[Ash]

She didn't want to get eliminated.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like, hello.

[Elena]

It was just like, guys.

[Ash]

And then the thing that. Actually, I think that the biggest thing for me, I think this really was the biggest was Danielle. Like, she won, right? She was one of the winners.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And then she went on and she lived in this model house.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

And she's sitting there month, month after month, day after day, not really getting any jobs. And all these other girls are getting jobs, jobs. And finally one of the girls that she was close with was, like, told her, like, I talked to an agent and I asked, why doesn't Danielle ever get booked on jobs? And it's like, because her portfolio doesn't work. None of these things work. And, like, we have to treat them differently because they were on reality tv. And Danielle said she later had a conversation with Tyra, and Tyra admitted, I knew that there was going to be certain doors that just wouldn't open for you guys. Because you were on reality tv and I didn't do anything about it.

[Elena]

It. And it's like. It's like, why did you.

[Ash]

Why you continue just to do this? Yeah. For however many cycles. Like, what is there? Like 24 cycles total?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like, what the. You knew what you were doing. This was never a sh.

[Elena]

That.

[Ash]

The biggest takeaway from this documentary is that this was never a show for young aspiring models. This was a show to humiliate women and just subject them to like, national equality.

[Elena]

It really was like. Like one more one that I was just thinking of. Takara.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Elena]

I love Chakara.

[Ash]

I love Takara.

[Elena]

She's another one that they beat the personality out of.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

She had this amazing personality. And then they just beat her down and then all over her about being beat down.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

And I remember she was at a

[Ash]

photo shoot and they didn't have any clothes for her.

[Elena]

And the stylist was like, you think I can get a rack like this for you? And I was like, oh, fuck you. Like, I was like, I can't. And then she. They put her in like this big orange fucking valet button up shirt, khakis,

[Ash]

and she, quote, unquote, didn't sell it.

[Elena]

And. Yeah. And judged her based on that. I was like, come on.

[Ash]

It's like nobody was gonna make that look good. And she still looked good.

[Elena]

And also, hey, dumbasses, we all know you knew she was coming. That's the other thing. You couldn't have any clothing.

[Ash]

Clothes. Like, that's on. That's on you guys. That's not on Takara.

[Elena]

Yeah, but they put it all on her such. And then they all over her for getting beaten down.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

It just. Oh, it always made me so mad. Yeah.

[Ash]

There was just. That documentary was wild. Oh, and then recently somebody. I don't know if it was somebody at UPN or if it was cw because part of the documentary was like, Tyra said she had to fire the two Js. And Nigel. It recently came out that she was allegedly never told that she allegedly fired them.

[Elena]

Allegedly.

[Ash]

That's what one person who works there said.

[Elena]

You know what I'm interested in? Because I think we need to do another part of this. Guess when the other documentary comes out. The other one's coming out next week, next month.

[Ash]

Oh, is it next month?

[Elena]

Yeah, I think It's March something 16. Oh.

[Ash]

So it's like really like a few weeks.

[Elena]

So I think we should also do another one when that one comes out, because I think that's gonna have more of the contestants on it. And I'm interested to see, apparently that

[Ash]

one's also gonna have Janice. Yeah, that's gonna be wild.

[Elena]

Which Janice?

[Ash]

She was horrible.

[Elena]

She was. She was really mean to those girls.

[Ash]

I think she was also, like, really struggling with mental health and addiction back then. So maybe she is gonna look back and say that she regrets some of.

[Elena]

Because it's no excuse to treat people like shit.

[Ash]

Exactly. So I hope it's something she regrets. But if you guys haven't watched the documentary. I thought it. I thought the parts where the contestants were speaking. Yeah.

[Elena]

I wanted more of that.

[Ash]

Were really good. I think the Tyra really just didn't give a lot, in my opinion.

[Elena]

Tyra gave an athlete.

[Ash]

I think she gave nothing.

[Elena]

She's just passing the book and making faces. And then Jay and Nigel and Ms. J, which also. I feel so bad about what happened

[Ash]

to Ms. J. I do too. I loved Ms. Jeff.

[Elena]

I really liked Ms. J. I mean,

[Ash]

the other thing is, I think Ms. J wasn't really there. Like, Ms. J was like the walking coach and then was like, on.

[Elena]

So Ms. J had some moments where they were not.

[Ash]

They were not great.

[Elena]

Yeah. So it's like they were all part of this. Like, there was no. No doubt about that. And it's like. But they all acknowledge. At least the three of them are acknowledging that it was bad. I will give them that. But I do think, like, you gotta take some responsibility. Yeah.

[Ash]

Take a little more. But that Ms. J suffered a stroke.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And like, obviously, like, they all work together for years and years and years.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And Tyra never went to visit Ms. J. Yeah. Which was wild.

[Elena]

Still hasn't called Ms. J. Yeah. According to.

[Ash]

According to the doc. As of the doc. That was really sad.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

That was because also, like, Ms. J literally taught Tyra how to walk. Yeah. It was wild.

[Elena]

I know. And that's. And the fact that Ms. J is now having to relearn how to walk, like, killed me.

[Ash]

But I think she will again. I absolutely think so.

[Elena]

Yeah. When. When Jay Manuel, Mr. J. When he wanted to leave because he was being like, yeah, I'm good with this.

[Ash]

You could tell too. And he says it too. Like, when you look at his face when he's presenting certain photo shoots, you can tell.

[Elena]

It's like.

[Ash]

Because it got to, like, he. I think he was the creative director in the beginning, but then he. He wasn't the creative director after a while. Like, who. Who knows who was coming up with the shoots. He was just presenting them.

[Venmo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And that was after he tried to leave.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And I think he talked to her. He sent this big, long thought out thing and she had responded just, I'm disappointed.

[Ash]

I am disappointed.

[Elena]

And then she iced him out and would not speak to him.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, and actually made it such a. Which makes it a horrible working environment. Yeah.

[Ash]

It's a toxic work environment.

[Elena]

And then fired him. Yes.

[Ash]

And however. However many seasons after. But the other thing is, if you watch and they show little clips of it in the documentary, I think this season that he comes back, like, comes back after. Like, he basically just, like, wasn't allowed to leave.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Is the cruise ship one. And she's, like, joking with him on the panel and you can see on his face that he's like, what the.

[Elena]

That he's, like, confused. Like, why are you.

[Ash]

Because, like, clearly you're being like, just like, completely ignoring me off camera. And then on camera you're like, lol. Best friends.

[Elena]

It's a wild documentary. It is.

[Ash]

And it's just like, this is all the stuff that has come out.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Imagine the stuff that just, like, hasn't hit the surface yet.

[Elena]

And I think when we hear more from the contestants in this next documentary that's coming out, I think we're gonna get even more.

[Ash]

Yeah, I think so, too.

[Elena]

I'm interested to. To hear it. And we can do another one of these to, like, kind of go over what happens in that one, because I'm sure there's gonna be new. New shit that comes out.

[Ash]

Yeah, definitely.

[Elena]

But. But yeah, it's definitely. It's eye opening.

[Ash]

It's worth the watch for sure.

[Elena]

Yeah, I would say so. But it's really disturbing.

[Ash]

It is disturbing. Drew said he fell asleep, like, on the last episode, and he said he had really weird dreams.

[Elena]

Yeah. That John.

[Ash]

I didn't like it.

[Elena]

John literally was like, I'm. He couldn't finish it. He was, like, disturbed by it.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, couldn't imagine. He was like, this is awful.

[Ash]

It's probably weird for, like, men to see what women are subjected to on a pretty regular basis. Probably. It's probably weird for them to be

[Elena]

like, what the fuck? Wait, what?

[Ash]

You guys just have to deal with that.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So, yeah, I mean, I think. I think we pretty much hit everything that we wanted to. But I'm like, you said, I'm excited to hit more when the new one comes out. But let us know what, like, your favorite moments of the. Or not favorite moments, but just, like, jaw dropping. Yeah. Shocking moments were in the comments. Yeah.

[Elena]

Because I know there's probably stuff that we didn't even touch upon because there's so much.

[Ash]

Yeah. So let's chat.

[Elena]

Yeah, let's.

[Ash]

Let's really work through this.

[Elena]

Let's work through this, guys. Let's.

[Ash]

Let's heal together, Millennials. Let's work together. All right, guys, thank you for tuning in to our little bonus episode for February. We'll be back next month with our March bonus, and that is going to have a special guest. We're going to be reading Post Mortem by Patricia Cornwell. So if you haven't read that, Definitely read it.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

If you have read it and it's been a while, brush up on it, because that's what we're going to be talking about.

[Elena]

So good.

[Ash]

Elena's read it like, a million times.

[Elena]

I have. I love it.

[Ash]

I'm reading it for the first time right now, and. And it's really, really good.

[Elena]

Trust me.

[Ash]

And we are going to have Chef Riley on the pod for that. I'm so excited. I've followed Chef Riley forever, and it makes sense because he himself has a book coming out in March. It's called A Little Bit Extra. So definitely go follow him on Instagram at Chef Riley Meehan.

[Elena]

You won't be disappointed.

[Ash]

You will not be disappointed. And our bonus episode is actually coming out March 31, which is the day that Chef Riley's book drops. So definitely go pre order that and tune into the episode.

[Elena]

Do it. And I think that's it. It's gonna be fun.

[Ash]

Okay. We love you guys so much. We hope you keep listening, and we

[Elena]

hope you keep it weird, but not

[Ash]

so weird as Tyra Banks by.

[Elena]

Yeah. Sa.

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