Morbid Podcast: "Mommy and Clyde: The Crimes of Sante and Kenny Kimes"

Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Release Date: February 16, 2026

Main Theme / Purpose

This episode of Morbid dives deeply into the twisted and unbelievable criminal saga of Sante Kimes and her son, Kenny Kimes—aptly dubbed "Mommy and Clyde." The hosts unpack their decades-spanning trail of cons, fraud, arson, and at least three murders across the United States and beyond, culminating in the murder of wealthy socialite Irene Silverman in New York City. This episode is a research-heavy chronological journey through the Kimes' elaborate and heinous crimes, balanced with Ash and Alaina's dark humor, tangents, and candid reactions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. Setting the Stage: Irene Silverman (06:00–14:32)

• Irene Silverman, the Kimes’ final known victim, was an 82-year-old Manhattan socialite and former ballet dancer with a vibrant, generous personality.
  • Quote, Ash (06:40): “Honestly, she sounds iconic.”
• Irene loved being surrounded by people and often rented lavish townhouse apartments to interesting tenants—including celebrities.
• Irene’s independence and warmth are highlighted through anecdotes from friends and staff, underlining the tragedy of her loss.

II. The Disappearance and Investigation (14:32–21:05)

• On July 5, 1998, Irene mysteriously disappears after a July Fourth party. Her absence quickly alarms staff and friends.
• A suspicious new tenant, "Manny Guerin," is missing at the same time.
  • Red flags: cash payment, no references, odd behavior, shielding visitors from security cameras.
• The police initially assign the missing persons case to a junior detective, downplaying its urgency.
  • Alaina (13:04): “I was like, that’s fake as well… It’s tedious to find someone missing, so you do it.”

III. The “Tenant”: Unmasking Kenny Kimes (21:05–23:27)

• “Manny” is quickly revealed as Kenny Kimes, already in police custody for unrelated fraud, along with his mother, Sante Kimes.
• Irene’s belongings and other ominous evidence are found in their hotel room and car, suggesting a larger, darker pattern.

IV. The Kimes Criminal Background (28:56–44:39)

Sante Kimes: Born to Scheme

• Sante’s ever-shifting backstory includes tales of poverty, abandoned family, and fictitious hardships, but much is debunked by relatives—she was a habitual liar and thief even in high school.
• The “pathological vs. compulsive liar” debate ensues, with Ash and Alaina swapping definitions and stories about real-life liars.
  • Memorable exchange (30:31):
    • Alaina: “I think it becomes, you can write a whole backstory for a character in a book.”
    • Ash: “It becomes, like, pathological.”

Marriages, Arson, and Fraud

• Sante’s first marriage ends amid mysterious arsons (committed for insurance money); her second to millionaire Ken Kimes is calculated for wealth.
• She regularly commits fraud, larceny—famously walking out of a lounge with someone else’s mink coat.
• Alaina (39:48): “Kent is just like, yeah… She just did that.”

The Slavery Charge (41:41–44:39)

• In 1985, Sante is convicted of literally enslaving a housekeeper, in what was one of the first US peonage/slavery cases in decades.
  • Ash (44:12): “And they were indicted.”
  • Alaina (44:13): “She’s a big old piece of—”
  • Ash: “—So the indictments were the first charges of slavery to be pursued in the United States for many, many, many years.”
• Her sentence is shockingly light: three years in prison.

V. Escalation: From Arson to Murder (44:49–56:52)

Financial Desperation After Ken Kimes’ Death

• After Ken Sr.’s death (he left her nothing), Sante’s crimes escalate. She forges, cons, and targets anyone in her way.
• Her other son Kent distances himself, and the hosts offer genuine support for establishing boundaries.
  • Alaina (53:44): “We love a boundary king. And in the 90s, establishing a boundary. Tough.”

Murders of Associates

• Saeed Bilal Ahmed (First Cayman Bank) disappears after a dinner with Sante and Kenny—murdered for his link to Kimes’ hidden assets.
• Elmer Holmgren, a lawyer/accomplice in arson, confides to friends about setting a fire at Sante’s behest; after an ominous trip with the Kimeses, he vanishes.
• Dave Kasdan, whose property is used for loan fraud, is found murdered after resisting her schemes.
• The number of murders and arsons grows, with authorities often a step behind.

VI. The Irene Silverman Case: Downfall of Mommy and Clyde (62:20–72:29)

• Arrested in New York on unrelated fraud, Sante and Kenny are found with Irene’s keys, passport, social security card, records, guns, wigs, and sedatives—plus tapes of Sante impersonating others (including a casino rep) to scam Irene.

• Despite no body, they are tried and convicted of murder on circumstantial evidence.

• Courtroom Shenanigans: Sante’s histrionics, wild comparisons to the Salem witch trials, and notes to the press.

  • Memorable quote, (66:57): Ash: “This bitch went nuts.”

• Judge’s withering assessment at sentencing:

  • "A sociopath of unremitting malevolence" (Sante)
  • "A vacuous dupe who had evolved into a remorseless predator under his mother's influence" (Kenny)
  • Alaina (68:44): “I have never heard a better description of two people in my entire life.”

• Both receive sentences of 120+ years.

• Kenny later confesses for plea deals: tased and strangled Irene, dismembered, and dumped in Hoboken garbage bags (remains never found).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I was swimming in a sea of what the—”
  – Ash (05:45), on researching the case.
• “She sounds like a hot ticket.”
  – Alaina (09:26), on Irene’s social life.
• “She treated her staff like family.”
  – Ash (17:26), highlighting contrast with Sante’s abuse.
• “She sucks.”
  – Alaina (42:49), on Sante’s treatment of housekeepers.
• “You larcenied a lot.”
  – Alaina (41:13), sarcastically about Sante's crimes.
• “A sociopath of unremitting malevolence…and a vacuous dupe.”
  – Quoted from judge’s sentencing remarks (68:37).
• “They wrapped her body up and threw it in a dumpster in Hoboken…All for money.”
  – Ash (71:23), on Irene Silverman’s fate.

Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|--------------------| | 06:00–14:32 | Irene Silverman’s life, disappearance, and suspicious tenant | | 14:32–21:05 | Initial police investigation and “Manny Guerin” (Kenny) | | 28:56–44:39 | Deep dive into Sante’s origin stories, arson, and slavery conviction | | 44:49–56:52 | Escalation: arson, fraud, murder of associates, death of Ken Sr. | | 62:20–72:29 | Irene Silverman murder case, evidence, trial madness, sentencing | | 71:21–72:27 | Irene's tragic end and the judge’s condemnation | | 72:49–73:31 | Hosts’ reactions and reflections on the Kimes’ callousness | | 73:31–74:03 | Lighthearted "fun fact" to close: Oldest dog “Bluey” lived to 29½ years |

Hosts' Tone & Commentary

• The episode weaves together heavy research, relatable reactions, and comedic asides (notably, tangents about “comfort movies,” liar definitions, and hypothetical rooftop tea-spilling).
• Ash and Alaina are alternately incredulous, darkly funny, and genuinely invested in the victims' dignity—especially Irene’s.

Summary Flow

• Start: Hosts warm up with banter and movie talk before Ash introduces the case, newly discovered.
• Middle: Chronological deep dive into Sante’s lifelong criminality, family dysfunction, boundary-setting, and murder.
• Climax: Detailed unraveling of the Kimeses' final, fatal scam and how investigators finally cornered them.
• End: Grim details of Irene’s end, multiple life sentences for Sante and Kenny, wrap-up with horror at their callousness—before a palate-cleansing dog fact.

For Those Who Haven't Listened…

This episode presents a panoramic, engaging account of one of America’s most audacious crime duos. You'll hear about the Kimeses' early fraud and arson, Sante's singular mendacity, and the tragic, senseless killing of Irene Silverman—all brought to life with the hosts’ signature irreverence and empathy for the victims. The hosts deftly balance dense detail, tangents, and cathartic outrage, making it a must-listen for true crime aficionados who appreciate both the research and the human moments.

End of Summary