Richard Speck : The Student Nurse Murders (Part 2)

Summary

Morbid Podcast

Episode: Richard Speck: The Student Nurse Murders (Part 2)

Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Date: November 10, 2025

---

Overview

In this intense continuation of one of Chicago’s most notorious true crime cases, Ash and Alaina walk listeners through the aftermath of the Richard Speck student nurse murders, detailing the relentless police investigation, Speck’s eventual capture, the dramatic trial, and the unfathomable lack of motive behind his crimes. The episode is anchored by the hosts' trademark blend of deeply researched true crime storytelling and darkly comedic rapport, but remains profoundly respectful to the senseless tragedy and the bravery of the victims, especially the lone survivor, Cora Amurao.

---

Key Discussion Points & Timeline

1. Picking Up from Part 1: Recap & Context

[05:01-07:13]

• The hosts revisit the brutality of Speck’s crimes, emphasizing the youth and promise of his victims and reflecting on the cruelty of their deaths.
• Notable quote:
  • “...some of them had escaped very dangerous situations in different countries to come here. To be safe. And then they meet this nasty little goblin, Richard Speck.” – Alaina [05:31]

2. The Break in the Case: Investigation & Identification

[07:13-15:36]

• The Chicago PD cobbled information together, with help from unorthodox sources like the robbery squad and a union office, tracking Speck through discarded paperwork.
• Innovative police work and a bit of luck connected Speck to the crime, finally matching fingerprints despite bureaucratic obstacles (e.g., airline strike delaying the prints).
• Almost comical near-misses: Speck slips through police hands at a hotel due to lack of information coordination.
• Speck is ultimately identified through his distinctive “Born to Raise Hell” tattoo, leading to his capture after a suicide attempt.
• Notable quote:
  • “Dr. Smith called for hospital security, who kept an eye on Speck until homicide detectives were able to get to the hospital. And they placed him under arrest for murder.” – Ash [15:27]
• Timestamps:
  • [11:30] Speck evades police due to a failed trap
  • [15:13] Dr. Smith recognizes Speck in the hospital

3. The Relief of Capture & Positive Identification

[16:01-17:32]

• The city breathes easier, but especially survivor Cora Amurao, who positively IDs Speck in a powerful and brave moment.
• Notable quote:
  • “Cora was brought to the hospital where she viewed Speck through a two way mirror and she confirmed that he was the killer. Telling detectives, ‘this is the man.’ What a brave fucking girl. What a badass. Truly.” – Alaina & Ash [16:26]
• Investigation is meticulous to avoid technicalities that could get Speck released.

4. The Legal Proceedings: Building an Airtight Case

[17:32-21:24]

• Caution is paramount due to recent Miranda v. Arizona ruling; Prosecutors are wary of any missteps.
• Evidence includes Cora’s testimony, fingerprint evidence, and a knife Speck sold after the murders for only a dollar.
• Indictment on eight counts of first-degree murder [18:33], lengthy psychiatric evaluation while in custody.

5. Psychological Analyses & Question of Insanity

[24:21-31:07]

• Speck undergoes sessions with Dr. Marvin Zaporin, who later writes a book about the case, sparking debate about criminal confidentiality.
• The hosts discuss the background of Speck’s abusive childhood and alleged head injury, questioning if these excuses are credible or convenient.
• Notable Exchange:
  • “He broke it up, okay. Cracked my head with his club till he knocked me out clean. So since then, Richard claimed he had been experiencing headaches, migraines... and he said he often blacked out and would awaken hours later with no memory.”
  • Ash: “So, yeah, here's the thing. Did that happen? Or did he look at the social climate and say, hey, I've been affected by big old policeman, too? ...It's a little too convenient.”
    – [27:22-28:02]

6. The Trial: Testimonies, Defense, and Cora’s Heroism

[31:07-41:00]

• The prosecution lays out a devastatingly clear case; the defense wavers between insanity and complete denial (“my man didn’t do it” defense).
• Cora’s in-person identification of Speck in court is described as one of the most unforgettable moments of the trial.
• Notable Moments:
  • “Cora rose from the witness stand, walked over to the defense's table... pointed directly in Speck’s face... loud enough for the whole court to hear, ‘This is the man.’" – Alaina [38:06]
  • Hosts repeatedly comment on the sheer courage required for Cora to testify and face her attacker.
• The jury deliberates just 45 minutes before convicting Speck on all counts; he’s sentenced to death (later commuted to life when the death penalty is abolished).

7. The Unanswered “Why”: Searching for Motive

[47:30-52:38]

• The hosts reflect on the public’s hunger for motive, noting that mass murder “for no reason” shook Americans’ sense of safety and marked "the end of an age of innocence."
• “People just couldn't understand murder simply for the sake of murder.” – Ash [48:51]
• Speck never expresses remorse and provides no satisfactory rationale.

8. Chilling Postscript – The Prison Tape

[53:04-62:53]

• In 1996, post-mortem, a prison tape surfaces: Speck is seen in a deeply disturbing setting, admitting the murders casually (“It just wasn't their night”), displaying zero remorse, and describing in detail his methods.
• Quote:
  • “He says, ‘sure, I did.’ And when he's asked why he did it, which is the question... He does not hesitate even a little. And he says, ‘it just wasn't their night.’” – Alaina [57:16]
• The tape is a stark demonstration that Speck was neither insane nor remorseful – he simply did not care.

9. The Legacy: Trauma, Survival, and Humanity

[62:53-End]

• The episode closes on the notion that some people lack the core human capacities for empathy or remorse, and that Cora’s courage ensured at least some justice was done.
• Notable quote:
  • “Only thanks to the bravery of Korra Amurao that Speck was held accountable at all... she’s the hero here.” – Alaina [61:01]
• The hosts encourage listeners to reflect on survival, resilience, and the importance of confronting the darkest corners of humanity.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He’s a sad, pathetic person. Also evil and dastardly and irredeemable.” – Ash [03:41]
• “That man broke into her house... and she walks up to the table, nearly touch the tip of that little nose and go, ‘that's the man.’” – Alaina [39:53]
• “This was one of the gnarliest, but also at the same time, most fascinating cases I think you've ever told.” – Ash [63:01]
• “I need to go cut off the top of my head, take out my brain and wash it... and then I'll see you later.” – Ash, with dark humor, after the bleak ending [64:01]

---

Tone & Style

Ash and Alaina deliver the episode with sensitivity, outrage, and the occasional irreverent joke to break the tension, always deferring to the bravery of the victims and the gravity of the story. Their banter keeps the episode engaging even as the content remains deeply disturbing.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |----------------------------------|----------------| | Recap / Case Background | 05:01–07:13 | | Investigation & Identification | 07:13–15:36 | | Speck’s Capture & Cora’s ID | 15:36–17:32 | | Legal Proceedings | 17:32–21:24 | | Psychological Analysis | 24:21–31:07 | | The Trial & Cora’s Testimony | 31:07–41:00 | | Search for Motive | 47:30–52:38 | | The Prison Tape & Aftermath | 53:04–62:53 | | Reflections & Farewell | 62:53–End |

---

Summary

This episode is a masterclass in true crime podcasting: thoroughly researched, emotionally deep, and expertly paced. The horror of Richard Speck’s crimes is balanced by the shining resilience of survivor Cora Amurao, whose testimony and bravery are credited throughout. The chilling postscript of the prison tape underscores the senselessness at the heart of the violence, leaving listeners shaken but illuminated.

Essential Takeaway:
If you listen to one thing: it’s the power and dignity of the survivor, Cora, who against all odds brought a monster to justice – and the terrifying truth that sometimes, the only explanation is the absence of humanity itself.

Transcript

[A]

The thought of getting a degree can be straight up terrifying. We get it. But Southern New Hampshire University makes it easier than you'd think. They have over 200 degrees that you can earn online. No set class time so your social life stays alive and well. And low online tuition that won't scare your bank account. College doesn't have to be a horror story. Visit Snhu. Edu Morbid to get started. That's Snhu. Edu Morbid. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or you're scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings with a professional website, grow your brand, and get paid all in one place. Every dream needs a domain. Squarespace domains make it easy to find the best name for your business at one fair, all inclusive price. No hidden fees or add ons required. And with Squarespace's collection of cutting cutting edge design tools, anyone can build a beautiful professional online presence that perfectly fits their brand or their business. Start with Blueprint AI, Squarespace's AI Enhanced Design partner. Or choose from a library of professionally designed and award winning website templates. No matter where you start, your website is flexible to what you need. Head to squarespace.commorbid for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code Morbid to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Today is one of those days. Honey, I woke up early. I gotta go here, I gotta go there, I gotta go everywhere. I got errands. Everybody's juggling long, busy days. And that's why Icebreakers gum is made for the go getters. Like you. Like me. We're go gettas.

[B]

We're going.

[A]

We're getting. With flavor crystals that deliver a bold and cooling effect, Icebreakers keeps you refreshed and ready to take on whatever is next. And here's a bonus. The pack fits perfectly in your car, cup holder or your bag, so it's within reach when you need it the most. Grab Icebreakers gum online or at a store near you. I love gum.

[B]

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is. Morbid.

[A]

Yeah, morbid.

[B]

It's a part two.

[A]

Part two. And we're one day closer to a Twilight episode.

[B]

Yes, we're. Which we will desperately need after this.

[A]

I know. Actually, that'll be like perfect. We get a Twilight episode which will be coming out on the 14th and 14th.

[B]

Because you guys said, if you don't do that Twilight episode that you mentioned, we will revolt in the streets.

[A]

You guys said you were going to beat us up and twist us upside down and steal our lunch money.

[B]

Exactly. And we said, don't have to tell me twice.

[A]

We said, fine.

[B]

I'm very excited for our Twilight bonus. And it's a bonus episode. It's not a regular episode.

[A]

It's a bonus episode.

[B]

Calm down. Just in case that wasn't clear.

[A]

Honestly, I think everybody was excited anyway. I'm so excited for that. I can't even say too many things because then I'll just start talking about it and it will just be the episode.

[B]

We gotta save it all.

[A]

We also have a super special guest that's gonna be on the show next week. This week?

[B]

This week.

[A]

Thursday. What is time?

[B]

What is time?

[A]

And you know, you'll just hear that when you hear it. But we love this guest. She's great. And I am excited to see her again.

[B]

I'm very excited to see her again. It's gonna be really fun.

[A]

It's gonna be super fun.

[B]

It's gonna be so fun. You know what's not fun? What? Richard Speck.

[A]

Not fun at all.

[B]

That is not fun at all. He's horrible. Yeah.

[A]

Part one really rocked my shit. Yeah.

[B]

I figure part one, there was just a lot to take in. Yeah, there was a lot. There was much. It's a brutal crime. It's an unbelievable crime. And he's a. A sad, pathetic person. Yeah, he really is also evil and dastardly and irredeemable.

[A]

Truly. I think irredeemable is a perfect word to describe him.

[B]

He's a great adjective.

[A]

You little writer over there.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

What do you write, books or something? I do tinyurl.com the butcher in the room. Don't go there. It doesn't exist.

[B]

I was going to say.

[A]

It's not a thing. I just like to say it. It's called a vocal stem. Look it up.

[B]

I do love that. So many vocal stems. Oh, yeah. So many.

[A]

Another one is.

[B]

Honey the Land.

[A]

Honey the Land. People keep messaging me Honey the bangs. Honey because I cut bangs.

[B]

I love that. I know.

[A]

I was like, I don't think we could do Honey the Land merch because it's not our quote. But I was like, could we do like, Honey the Land Dash dash Sylvia.

[B]

Dash dash Sylvia. I like that.

[A]

In memoriam.

[B]

In memoriam of silver.

[A]

Probably not.

[B]

Silver brown. Silver brown.

[A]

So that's how you say it. Quick silver brow.

[B]

Around.

[A]

I don't think we can do that, but.

[B]

No, but we can keep saying it.

[A]

But we'll continue to say it.

[B]

And you guys can keep saying it because it's funny.

[A]

I might put that on my grave someday.

[B]

Honey, the la.

[A]

Honey, the grave.

[B]

I say it about everything now. Yeah, you gotta. So when we, you know, when we left you in part one, Richard Speck had done some awful. Yeah, he had killed. These women, by the way, were like between the ages of like 21 and 23, I think they were young, young.

[A]

Their careers are just starting.

[B]

Right before grad situation too. They were like months away, like weeks away.

[A]

And to think all the work that.

[B]

They had put into that for the rest of their lives and this is how it ends. It just pisses me.

[A]

And to think that some of them had escaped, like very dangerous situations in different countries to come here.

[B]

Yeah. To be safe. Yeah. And then they meet this nasty little goblin, Richard Speck. Like, oh, he's so gross. So when we last left you, that's what happened. They had though, ended up finding a lead through like a very interesting little avenue of like having to take some resources from different parts that were not just the direct. Chicago Police Department.

[A]

Very boots on the ground.

[B]

Very boots on the ground. Very boots on the ground. And it was the robbery squad that was the one that ended up having the kooky contacts to make this happen.

[A]

Not the kooky contacts.

[B]

And it was also people not taking out the trash, which is pretty sick. That is taking out your trash.

[A]

That happens so frequently. I, I never know when they are going to take my trash.

[B]

If you question if, if you're sitting there and your gut says, you know what, I don't feel like taking out that trash today, don't do it. Because I think it's telling you something.

[A]

Everything happens for a reason.

[B]

Yeah. And they had through this whole little process of, you know, going to this mechanic who deals with a lot of petty criminals and then finding out that this guy had been in there who was a dick face to him and had left two of his bags there. They were able to follow that to the nmu, which is a union for like people who work on like ships and boats and shit and they can get them assignments and jobs. They ended up going there. The guy, the administrator there was like, oh, yeah, I think I remember a guy like that. We'd sent him on a job, he didn't get it. He was pissed. He wrote down all of his fucking information. Here it is, crumpled it up and put it in the trash. Because he was a piece of shit and didn't have a goddamn job to begin with.

[A]

I know. I love that. He didn't even get a job.

[B]

Threw that shit right in the tr. Trash. And then he was able to pick up that crumpled piece of paper and say, well, actually, his name is Richard B. Speck, and here's a direct line to his sister Carolyn, who he is living with currently.

[A]

A.

[B]

And we told you that Carolyn was the one. I don't know. She's his big sister. Okay. I don't know what happened, but she just, you know, she's trying to. She. She took him in. She was trying to. To help him out. Don't make me mad at Carolyn. And just, you know, I think she just. I think she wanted him to be a better person than.

[A]

She had blinders on.

[B]

I think she had a lot of blinders on. So he's living there right now. He's currently drinking. He's still getting into trouble. He had promised her he was going to be a better person, and he just wasn't. So based on what detectives had learned from that administrator at the nmu, they knew that that's where he was staying. And from the look of things, he was trying to get out of the city as fast and as soon as possible. Because who they talked to, this guy was looking to get on a boat. He was looking to go to New Orleans. Yeah. It certainly helped that they now had a name to go with the detailed description from Kora and now the sketch made by a police sketch artist. But they still had to tread carefully when it came to releasing this information to the press. Now, earlier that year, the U.S. supreme Court's decision in Miranda vs. Arizona. You might know it.

[A]

I think I've heard of it.

[B]

It had cast a spotlight on police abuses of power during criminal interviewing. And both the district attorney and investigators on the case worried that if they posted the sketch in the paper or mentioned Speck by name, that might be cause for the case to be completely thrown out in court. Yeah, because they just. Yeah, that nailed it. What they needed was some piece of evidence that conclusively connected Speck to the murders and made him an irrefutable suspect. Now, at the NMU office, investigators decided to set a trap to try to lure Speck to the officer where they could take him into custody. Okay. The administrator place a call to Carolyn's apartment, his big sister, where they spoke to her husband, who informed them that he hadn't seen Richard all day.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The administrator asked the man to Relay a message to Richard telling him they had a job for him on the Sinclair Great Lakes, but they needed him to come into the office as soon as possible.

[A]

Smart.

[B]

So the trap is laid. And a large number of undercover officers waited in the NMU office posing as sailors.

[A]

I love a trap.

[B]

And they waited anxiously for their suspect to arrive because they knew that he. He's probably their guy.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, everything is lining up too perfectly now.

[B]

While detectives work to lure Speck into the NMU office, analysts at the Chicago Police Department have been doing their best to track down Speck's fingerprints. If they were able to find a set of prints, they hoped they could match them to the prints found in the townhouse. And that would allow them to publicly identify him as a suspect and release his name in the sketch. Yeah. As luck would have it, the FBI headquarters that Spec's prints were on file from an earlier arrest. Oh. Oh. In Tex. So they already had them. But in a time before fax machines and email, the only way to get the prints from Washington D.C. to Chicago was either drive them or send them by air.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

At the time, there was an ongoing airline strike across the country and flights out of D.C. were grounded until further notice, putting investigators in a pretty tough pickle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Back at the NMU office, the phone rang just a little after 5pm and when the administrator answered, it was Richard Speck calling about the job. Oh, God. This man just murdered eight women and now he's like a job?

[A]

You say, thanks, I'm getting out of here.

[B]

The man reiterated the details. It was a last minute job in the Sinclair Great Lakes, and if Speck wanted the work, he needed to come down to the office that afternoon and get the assignment. Speck told the man he'd take the job and promise he'd be there soon. But hours passed and he didn't show up. After several hours, it occurred to investigators that Speck might be onto their plane.

[A]

Oh, shit.

[B]

In fact, when he spoke to the man from the nmu, the administrator told Speck the job was on the Sinclair Great Lakes. The exact name of the ship Speck had been previously assigned to and was passed over for someone else. If he had caught the name, he probably would have known that that ship already left Port Yaw, which would have been a strong indication that this was a trap.

[A]

That's not a good way to lay your trap.

[B]

Use a different ship.

[A]

You have to have everything planned out.

[B]

So now, certain that Speck was on to them, Chicago officers and detectives spread out across the city Again, this time with a clear understanding of who they were looking for. The problem was, though, that with the ongoing protests and the general policing that was occurring at the same time, messages and alerts didn't always get relayed. Case in point. In the early evening of July 16, two beat cops received a call from dispatch about a man at a local hotel with a gun. The officers arrived at the hotel and were told by the front desk clerk that the room was registered to a David Staton. But when they went up to the room, the man inside identified himself as Richard Speck. Having not been directly involved in the investigation of the student nurses, the officers had no way of knowing the suspect had been named.

[A]

Please tell me.

[B]

So they simply gave Speck a verbal warning and confiscated the gun, allowing Speck to slip from their fingers and yet again.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

When the news of the check of the hotel reached homicide detectives, they raced to the hotel. But by the time they got there, he was gone.

[A]

And they said, you fucking idiot.

[B]

Yes. For the second time in one day, the killer of eight innocent young women had managed to slip away into the city. And investigators were starting to think that they might lose their chance to catch him if he managed to get through the roadblocks and make it out of Chicago. They were never following him. Their best bet remained the fingerprints in the sketch. And finally, that afternoon, they caught a lucky break. Despite the ongoing airstrip airline strike, a pilot with American Airlines volunteered to fly the fingerprints from Washington D.C. to Chicago. Hell yeah, brother. Once they receive the prints, two analysts work through the night analyzing the set by hand and comparing them to the prints found at the house.

[A]

That is too cool.

[B]

Too cool.

[A]

To think about people analyzing fingerprints before you could just, like, plug it into a database is bit by bit so fucking cool.

[B]

And they worked all night like those two are badasses. By the next morning, they were able to confidently and conclusively match the prints at the scene. Two Specs prints from the FBI file. And detectives rushed to get the sketch of Spec onto the front page of every newspaper that morning. Iconic. Along with a description of his Born to Hell to raise hell tattoo. No. Now, as soon as the description and identification of Speck went out, calls started flooding into the Chicago Police Department. Most were misidentifications or, you know, of little value hooligans. But there were a few who claimed to have seen or spoken with Spec at local bars in the days before and immediately after the murders.

[A]

And they said those are probably correct because that guy drinks.

[B]

He dranks. One man, Claude Lunsford, told investigators that he had been drinking with Speck a few nights earlier on the fire escape of the Star Hotel. He remembered that tattoo on his arm and the gun he had been carrying that night.

[A]

That's such a Claude story.

[B]

It really is. Such a Claude story. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On like the fire escape of a. Of a bar.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's just Claude doing Claude.

[B]

Like just Claude, you know, just Claude.

[A]

Things where Claude hangs.

[B]

Find yourself a Claude and he'll have a story. I know it. That is.

[A]

At the start of the hotel, while.

[B]

Officers fielded calls that morning, Dr. Leroy Smith was on his break at County Hospital where he was casually flipping the newspaper and he read the description of the suspect in the Tattoo. Moments later, Dr. Smith was called into surgery to help a young man who had been brought to the hospital with what appeared to be superficial cuts on his wrist from a half hearted attempt to end his life. As Simmons was wiping the blood away from the young man's arm, he recognized the tattoo on that left arm that read Born to Raise Hail.

[A]

Stop it.

[B]

And realized the man on the hospital gurney was none other than Richard Speckled.

[A]

Stop.

[B]

The most wanted man in Chicago.

[A]

And he obviously knew that the police were onto his ass.

[B]

Thank goodness he read the paper that morning.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Dr. Smith called for hospital security, who kept an eye on Spec until homicide detectives were able to get to the hospital. And they placed him under arrest for murder.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

So he basically walked right into it. Yeah. Now, when the news broke of the arrest, the residents of Chicago heaved a collective sigh of relief because remember, they're all terrified. Yeah. This guy walked into a house at night and massacred eight women.

[A]

Like, yeah, it's shocking. Like absolutely shocking to me that he.

[B]

Had never murdered before. They're all terrified. And think about Cora. Cora's terrified. She's the only one that survived. She's sitting there being like, is he gonna come find me, Andy? That's the thing. He's seen her face. Yeah. Sergeant John Griffith told Press immediately after he was taken into custody at the hospital. There's no doubt that this is specific. Later that morning, Cora was brought to the hospital where she viewed Spec through a two way mirror and she confirmed that he was the killer. Telling detectives, this is the man.

[A]

What a brave fucking girl.

[B]

What a badass. Truly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, that's really brave.

[A]

After everything she went through and everything she heard, having to be sedated and she's still traumatized.

[B]

That's the thing.

[A]

She had to be sedated after this.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Now in their press conference following the positive identification, Police Superintendent O.W. wilson said, I feel we have enough evidence to convict him. We have physical evidence placing him in the building, and we have positive identification from an intended victim. As far as I'm concerned, there is no question but that this is the man. More positive identifications followed, including those from the National Maritime Union and various bars and hotels where Richard had been seen before and after the murders occurred. Okay. The next day, July 18, Speck was arranged for the murders. But the prosecutor was hesitant to rush the case to a grand jury, given how much scrutiny the courts and law enforcement had been under with regard to the rights of the accused. State's Attorney Daniel Ward told the press that they would be proceeding with an abundance of caution and making sure the case was airtight before presenting it to a grand jury. Would you understand?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They don't want this guy getting released again. Jesus Christ.

[A]

And he's been in and out of the system forever.

[B]

Yeah. And so Ward said, we anticipate going to the grand jury this week with the case. Although Speck is presently under sedation, we planned to have him appear in felony court. In fact, more than three weeks passed before investigators were even given approval to interview Speck. But eventually, Ward presented the evidence to a grand jury with a small but pretty significant amount of circumstantial evidence behind him. Among other things, they were presented with the fingerprint evidence that linked him to the crime scene, Cora's positive identification of him as the killer, and various others who testified, including William Kirkland, who told the jury he'd bought a 12 inch hunting knife from Speck at a downtown bar just hours after the murders were committed. Stop it. Bought the fucking knife from him hours later. According to Kirkland. We were sitting there talking, and Speck brought the knife out and began talking about it. I asked him if he. If he wanted to sell it. Offered him a dollar, and he handed me the knife.

[A]

A dollar?

[B]

A dollar. Because he wanted to get rid of that murder weapon.

[A]

That should have been like a red flag for that guy.

[B]

Yeah, I would say so. Now the grand jury voted to indict Richard Speck on eight counts of first degree murder. But the road to the trial was going to be long and filled with delays. For one, Speck's attempted suicide, no matter how sincere or insincere, was evidence of a deep depression that would surely hinder his ability to aid in his own defense. Unfortunately, at the time, there was still a great deal of concern again over the rights of the accused.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the Prosecutor's office is saying, unless everything's done completely by the book, there's a chance that one little technicality is going to get us, and we're just not walking into that.

[A]

Good for them to be so, so careful.

[B]

Yeah. Because this is just like, we don't need the verdict overturned, no appeal. We don't need some technicality cutting this short.

[A]

We gotta send him away for good.

[B]

To walk out that door and do it again. Yeah. As a result, the preparation for the trial took months as both sides readied for what would surely be the biggest trial of the year. Oh, yeah. In the meantime, Richard Speck sat in jail waiting for the trial to begin. Between July 26, 1966 and February 17, 1967, he was held at Kermack Memorial Hospital in the Chicago House of Corrections, and he was being treated for depression and suicidal ideation. Also, according to Dr. William Norcross, there was, quote, an 80% chance that speck had suffered a coronary thrombosis on the morning of his arraignment. So he required treatment for that as well. Dang.

[A]

This episode of Morbid is brought to you by one of my favorites, Garaza. Always fresh, single origin olive oil. The holidays are basically here and everybody knows how important food is this time of year. Garaza offers three, not one, not two, three olive oils for every holiday dish. You got sizzle for everyday cooking, marinating, sauteing, roasting. You got drizzle for bold flavor. Really good on salads, bread, or like, a finishing touch. And then you have frizzle, which is just fun to say. A high heat oil, ideal for baking, grilling, and frying. I made a beautiful sourdough the other day for my starter. Matilda and I used drizzle to make a little, like, finishing oil. I put a little balsamic in there, a little parmesan cheese, a little salt, little pep. It was so delicious. I felt like I was in Roma. Honey, whether you're the gracious host or the professional partygoer, it's always good to have extra olive oil on hand. I'm obsessed with Graza. You're going to be obsessed with Graza. You should buy all three of them, because why not have all three olive oils? Head to Graza, co Morbid and use morbid to get 10% off your order and get cooking this holiday season with some fresh, delicious olive oil. Today's episode is brought to you by Fabletics. I am so freaking excited that Fabletics is a sponsor because I have been a Fable Fabletics VIP member For so many years. At this point, when you live in activewear like me, like, I'm literally wearing this stuff six out of seven days a week. You can never have enough activewear. But the good stuff usually cost a fortune. And that's why Fabletics is amazing. I love it. When you sign up as a Fabletics VIP, you get 80% off of everything. I'm gonna say that one more time for you. 80% off of everything. Are you joking? And after that, it's about 60 bucks a month unless you skip the month, which you can do. That monthly fee gives you exclusive benefits, including a credit that you can use toward a full outfit or bundle worth up to a hundred dollars. They were nice enough to actually send me some stuff for this sponsorship, which I was so excited about. I got the Tahoe teddy jacket. I actually got two of them because I couldn't decide what color. I got white and green. Loving the white. We'll probably spill something on it. And that's what the green is for. I also got the seamless square neck bra in white and also green. And I got cozy fleece sweatpants and a cozy mock neck little like sweater set. That's a lavender color. That is so, so cute. It's very upscale activewear.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

I have loved Fabletics forever and I am so excited to be working with them. You guys are gonna love Fabletics too. Treat yourself to gear that looks good, feels good, and doesn't break the bank with Fabletics. Go to Fabletics.com morbid and sign up as a VIP and get 80 off of everything. Paycheck to paycheck. Anxiety, anyone? Oh, worrying doesn't help. But you know what does? Earn in earn and does earn it is an app that lets you access your pay as you earn it. Up to $150 a day with a max of $750 between paydays. Just download the earn an app and add your info and then start accessing your pay as you work. Any money that you access is automatically repaid from your next paycheck. I so, so wish that I knew about this. When I was like trying to build my credit score and in my early 20s, it would have been so nice to know that I could easily access my paycheck early because you run into things all the time, like an unexpected vet bill. You need to do work on your car, different things like that. And sometimes you don't always have that money right away. But with earning, you would download earning today spelled E A, R, N I N in the Google Play or Apple App Store. When you download the Earn an app, type in Morbid under Podcast when you sign up. Morbid under Podcast. Earn an is a financial technology company, not a bank. Access limits are based on your earnings and risk factors. Standard cash outs take one to two business days with no mandatory fees. Expedited transfers available for a fee. Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service. Available in select states. Terms and restrictions apply. Visit Earnin.com for full details. Download Earn in right now and take control of your pay.

[B]

During this time, he participated in twice weekly sessions with a psychiatrist, Dr. Marvin Zaporin, who would go on to write a book about his experience with Speck.

[A]

Oh, isn't that very against everything? Isn't that very against everything? Do you know what I mean? Like hipaa.

[B]

Yeah, I'm sure.

[A]

But maybe do criminals not get hipaa?

[B]

Do you not get hipaa?

[A]

Hey, criminals.

[B]

Do you get criminals?

[A]

You got hip, like, you know what I'm saying? Because I know that, like, when you're a criminal and you write a book, you can't profit off of it. Like when you're like, that's like a newer. I know that's newer. I said, that's so rude. I was like, I know that's new.

[B]

I know that.

[A]

But no, like the psychiatrist writing about it. Isn't that like. No, isn't that bad News bears.

[B]

I think they have to still maintain anonymity when it comes to the person that they were treating, but they can talk about their experiences without naming them. I'm fairly.

[A]

And then everybody will just know that.

[B]

It'S that person and everybody will know.

[A]

But like, interesting. I mean, I guess he can't sue you.

[B]

It's one of those things.

[A]

Or can. You know, so many legal questions.

[B]

Spoiler alert. He's dead now. So. Okay. He's not doing shit.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Except for rotting. Good, good, good.

[A]

Maybe that's. Maybe that's it.

[B]

That's what it is.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Anyway, so he.

[A]

Sorry, I got caught up in the minutiae.

[B]

Yeah, you know, it's cool. But so he wrote a book and he said later, yes, Speck was suicidal. He was emotionally unstable, impulsive and depressive. In his early sessions, he noted that Speck's mood changed constantly through their meetings and was, quote, never the same for more than two or three minutes at a time.

[A]

Wow, that's horrifying.

[B]

Like nearly all Americans at the time, Ziporin was desperate to find an explanation for what was an inexplicably brutal and pretty fucking senseless like, set of murders. Yeah. Spec had forcibly entered the house, presumably to rob the nurses, who willingly gave up their money and listened to him. Then, for reasons that made no sense at the time, he just chose to brutally and systematically murder them all. The modem was supposed to be robbery. That was pretty weak motive for him to claim now, especially because they all.

[A]

Just were, like, sitting in a room and were found.

[B]

They all could have found. They were sitting there saying, we'll give you everything. You can take all you want. I don't give a shit.

[A]

And there's a living witness to testify to that.

[B]

It's like. That doesn't. And so it's like, after they cooperated, why he would murder them and so brutally is beyond comprehension. Truly. Absolutely, it is. But Ziphorn spent months digging deep into Speck's psyche, looking for the key that would explain his actions. And there was a great deal of talk about his upbringing, the death of his father, the abuse he suffered at the hands of his stepfather. Of course. Yeah. There was also the discovery that as a teenager, he might have suffered a head injury at the hands of a police officer when he was 16 years old.

[A]

There it is. That's also really bad timing for the police.

[B]

Yeah. That he told Zaborin, I was fighting this kid. I had him on the ground really giving it to him, and a cop came to break it up. He broke it up. Okay. Cracked my head with his club till he knocked me out clean. So since then, Richard claimed he had been experiencing headaches, migraines, all that were, like, pretty debilitating. And he said he often blacked out and would awaken hours later with no memory of what had happened. Which I said, wow, convenient.

[A]

So, yeah, here's the thing. Did that happen? Or did he look at the social climate and say, hey, I've been affected by big old policeman, too?

[B]

Yeah. And, hey, they're the.

[A]

When I did this, I just blacked out.

[B]

Sometimes I close my eyes and I don't know what happened. It's crazy.

[A]

It's a little too convenient.

[B]

And just for good measure, Speck also included a story about falling out of a tree when he was six years old and sustaining a similar head injury. So he just. He's bopping his head all over the place. He's like, I don't even. What head? Who? I don't know her.

[A]

I was trying to say anything, but I couldn't stop laughing.

[B]

I was like.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know, man. Maybe I have had injury.

[B]

No, we'll never know whether Richard was Telling the truth in these interviews.

[A]

I'm going to go.

[B]

We can wildly speculate. It's entirely possible that he was telling the truth and that he had.

[A]

I mean, hey, something was wrong with him.

[B]

Something was wrong. But, you know, maybe he was fabricating the whole thing in preparation for an insanity defense that was clearly being telegraphed by his lawyer, Cook County Public Defender Gerald Getty. In preparation for the case, Getty had enlisted three well respected psychologists, psychiatrists whose opinions he hoped would override those of the prosecution's experts. In fact, Getty was in a very tricky spot. On the one hand, there was strong evidence that placed his client at the scene and a witness who repeatedly identified him as the killer. Yeah. On the other hand, an insanity defense carried some significant risks. For instance, if Speck was evaluated by Getty's psychiatrists and determined to be a sociopath, it would completely undermine his insanity defense.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Still, insanity was the most viable strategy at this point. So Getty moved forward and hoped that they could convince the jury Speck wasn't responsible for his actions. What Getty didn't know at the time was that Dr. Zaporin's evaluations and log of contacts with Speck might work in the defendant's favor. After spending months with Speck, Zipporin concluded, quote, speck is an obsessive compulsive personality whose rigidity, ambivalence and hostility have been accentuated by his organic cerebral pathology.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In other words, Speck had an organic mental illness that had been exacerbated by his reported brain injury when he was 16.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

When those symptoms were at their worst. He wrote, a patient is not responsible for his conduct and may be completely unaware of what he is doing. I disagree. I put that disagree, but I'm not there. You don't.

[A]

I how we gotta really take into consideration how long it must have taken him to do everything he did to.

[B]

Those women systematically, one by one, walk to those women out there and sexually assaulted some of them. And then brutally, he himself later says, which we will get to that. Strangling someone isn't like you see in the movies. You gotta go at it for a good three minutes.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

That's literally what he says. And it's on tape later.

[A]

And it's also, like, how do you know that if you've never done it? So I'm sorry, because, like, you don't remember your blackouts.

[B]

You're not responsible for your actions. So, like, how do you know that?

[A]

I don't know about that.

[B]

Yeah. Now, this wasn't the first time the prosecutor's office had heard Zaporin's chronic brain syndrome, quote unquote, as an explanation for criminal behavior. In fact, he presented it several times in previous criminal cases.

[A]

Dude, come on.

[B]

Never with much success. Yeah. Kind of sounds like he was, you know, trying to get that to be a thing, and it just. It isn't a thing.

[A]

It's like, maybe let's not try to make that a thing.

[B]

Yeah. Anticipating Zipporin and others attempts to explain away Speck's behavior, the prosecution began building their own case to demonstrate that Richard Speck wasn't some ordinary man afflicted with a kind of Jekyll and Hyde syndrome. Instead, he had developed his criminal personality and cunning over many years of illegal activity and being a shitbag. He's just. Richard Speck's trial began April 3, 1967, in Peoria, Illinois, just outside of Chicago. In his opening statements to the jury, prosecutor William Martin detailed the carnage that unfolded in the townhouse on the night of July 13, including eight murders, robbery, and sexual assault, all of which was committed by Richard Speck, all alone. At no time did any of the victims attempt to fight or resist Speck. And they. Because they were bound.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And in fact, they willingly handed over whatever valuables they had in order to cooperate and get him to leave. But Spec didn't leave, Martin reminded the jury. He chose instead to brutally stab, slash, and strangle everyone in that house in order to cover his tracks and get away with his crime, which also means he's sane. Everybody. He literally did it to not leave a witness so he could get away with it.

[A]

And then also sold the knife afterwards, which shows that he was trying to get rid of the murder weapon.

[B]

Like, hello, and that's. Martin argued, that's the behavior of a man who knew exactly what he was doing and exactly what would happen if he was caught. As he wrapped up his opening statements, Martin reminded the jury that his office was asking for the death penalty in this case, as nothing less was appropriate for what he had done in this scenario. He's an animal.

[A]

He is an animal.

[B]

When it came time for Gerald Getty to present his case, it was as simple a defense as any had ever heard in this courthouse.

[A]

He said, I don't know. He lost his head.

[B]

Are you ready?

[A]

No, probably not.

[B]

He told the jury, my man didn't do it.

[A]

No, no, no, no. Get that out of here.

[B]

No, my man didn't do it, period. My man didn't do it, period. Now, at some point, he got up.

[A]

There with his whole chest and talking about a massacre.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Said, my man didn't do it.

[B]

My man didn't do it.

[A]

This is just your man now.

[B]

My man didn't die.

[A]

That's a conflict of interest. My guy.

[B]

Here's the thing. I think at some point, it became pretty clear to Getty that the insanity defense was not going to happen and probably very risky. So instead, he just chose the oldest defense in the book, which is. Wasn't me. Wasn't me. He said. The theory of the defense is that Speck is not the perpetrator of this crime. The State will have to prove its contention beyond a reasonable doubt. Okay.

[A]

Bye. The girl who experienced it is right over there and says otherwise.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

You fucking idiot.

[B]

Might have been bold given the evidence. Might have been. But he was right about one thing. It was very much incumbent upon the State to prove its case against Speck, not the other way around.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Getty told the jury their evidence will include an eyewitness, and you will have to test whether that witness is an eyewitness.

[A]

What a douchebag.

[B]

Which. Whoa. Getty's case may have seemed like a big risk, but the fact was, the forensic evidence only indicated Richard Speck had been in the house at some point, and not necessarily during the time the women were killed. Unfortunately, it was only Cora, her testimony, that identified him as the killer. And by her own admission, she hadn't seen her roommates being murdered. She only saw the killer when he entered the house and tied everyone up. Therefore, it was entirely possible that Cora was mistaken in identifying Speck or that she was so traumatized by the event that she misremembered the situation entirely. That's what they could have, though. That's what they would have argued. Yeah. Yeah. Getty's subtle attack on the State's most important witness was to be expected, of course, and it was given a certain amount of credibility in the eyes of the public, considering that Cora hadn't been seen or heard from since she was rescued from that scene.

[A]

In fact, they said, we didn't see her in the public, so we don't know. That would only lead me to believe her more.

[B]

Yeah. In fact, many reporters and speculators wondered whether Cora was even still in the United States. States. On the second day of the trial. Those questions were put to rest, though, when the prosecution called Cora up to testify.

[A]

I'm like, oh, racism.

[B]

It turned out that there was a very good reason for her sudden disappearance. Following the murders, Cora had been placed in witness Protection by the prosecution who worried she might be a flight risk or otherwise too fragile to testify against Speck. Yeah. In the end, Cora proved everyone wrong and ended up being William Martin's single greatest asset. Good. Good.

[A]

That's a real. Good for her.

[B]

Good for her.

[A]

I hate that the public was like, is she even in the United States anymore? Isn't that yourself?

[B]

Isn't that so the public.

[A]

Is that traumatized girl Even in the U.S. probably not.

[B]

Isn't that so the public?

[A]

Yes, it's so the public.

[B]

Isn't that so?

[A]

Not the public. Not the public listening right now. But, like, the other public.

[B]

Like that. Those. That. That's those, like, people on the Internet who are like. Like, that's. Those are people before the Internet.

[A]

And I gotta tell you, that's what you all sound like. If you're listening right now and you're not our public and you're a Hubble. That's what you sound like.

[B]

Like. And I know it's not you guys. No, it's not you guys, I'm saying, you know.

[A]

Yeah. You guys know.

[B]

You know those. Those deep goblins on the Internet who just have some to say about everything. Like, their opinion matters. Like, their words matter. I just go around going.

[A]

I literally just picture spongebobby like, in the spongebob text, where it's like, is she even in the United States anymore? Like, okay, so true. Where are you exactly? Like, look around.

[B]

It's so, so true.

[A]

Oh, get a grip.

[B]

See, that's. That's those kind of people.

[A]

I love that she was like.

[B]

She said, let me clear my. She said, listen, the public, y' all. Good now. Over the course of hours, Cora answered a seemingly endless barrage of questions and detailed precisely what she'd seen and heard on the nights of the murders, during which she frequently paused to compose herself but never broke down. Good for her. During the course of her testimony, she described the killer's appearance, the fact that he smelled of alcohol because he's a nasty ass drunk, and even provided detailed descriptions of the knife and gun that were nearly an exact. Wow. Finally, when Martin asked whether the man who committed the murders was in the courtroom, Cora rose from the witness stand, walked over to the defense's table. Standing only about a foot in front of him, she extended her arm and pointed directly in Spec's face.

[A]

The walm that my body just did.

[B]

Nearly touching his nasty little fucking nose.

[A]

She said, not only am I in the U.S. yes, you.

[B]

I'm right here.

[A]

I'm like a millimeter away from him. Oh, I am still warming and she.

[B]

Said loud enough for the whole court to hear, this is the man. Oh, honey, this is the man.

[A]

They love to doubt a woman, and a woman loves to them up him up.

[B]

Y', all. Y'. All.

[A]

Oh, good for that. It.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Cora said enough can't be said. Enough can't be said about the whole. A survivor she is. She did that for every single one of her friends and sisters. And I'm like, classmates. No, I'm still warming.

[B]

I've said this a few times. I have goosebumps.

[A]

That man you like. We really need to sit with this for a second. That man broke into her house. She was the one who was at the door, right?

[B]

She was in bed, heard a knock on the door. He knocked on the door.

[A]

He knocked on the door.

[B]

He shoved his way with a gun in her face.

[A]

He gets her into a. They all run into a closet to hide. He somehow convinces them to come out, ties her and her friends up systematically. She can hear them being sexually assaulted, strangled, stabbed over and over again. And she hides underneath the bed for hours and hours and hours and hours, then comes out to that carnage and lives to tell the tale. Stays in the United States, which everybody was so fucking doubtful about. And then goes into the courtroom and relives all of that, to relive all of that, and then walk right up to that table. It's literally the snaps can't be snapped.

[B]

Enough to saunter up to that table, nearly touch the tip of that little nose and go, that's a man.

[A]

She said, you didn't get me, she said, and really, you didn't get any of us. This one, I applaud her. I will applaud her till my dying day.

[B]

She's everything. She's Cora for life.

[A]

Yeah, she's everything.

[B]

And she just. And she just said it loud and proud. Good for her. Oh. In fact, one reporter said it was a moment few in the crowded courtroom would ever forget. It was filled with the courage that was in the diminutive 4 foot 10 inch form of the sole survivor of a tragic mass murder.

[A]

It's always the shorties.

[B]

She's little. You gotta.

[A]

She is little, but she is fierce.

[B]

You gotta, because everyone's gonna doubt you.

[A]

Yeah, I know Little Rick.

[B]

Everyone's gonna underestimate you. So you gotta. You gotta be.

[A]

That's how Little Red became Big Red.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

She's forceful.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And courageous.

[B]

4 foot 10. And she walks up to that table. Good.

[A]

Good for her.

[B]

Like a.

[A]

And he's a Six foot tall, like, yeah, gross looking monster goblin.

[B]

And she walks up a powerhouse, obsessed. Yeah, it's amazing. So on April 14, both sides gave their closing arguments.

[A]

Honey, the Cora.

[B]

Honey, the Cora. I said, hold on.

[A]

It came to me.

[B]

What? William Martin reminded the jury of all that they'd seen and heard throughout the trial. Details of his long criminal history, his propensity for violence, the irrefutable evidence that's placed him at the scene, and Cora's powerful testimony that identified Richard Speck as the killer. Gerald Getty, on the other hand, restated his argument that Speck had never been at the house on the night of the murders.

[A]

He said, let me say one more time. Yeah, my man didn't do it.

[B]

My man didn't do it. That's all. The fingerprints he argued were just, just, you know, too similar to those of two people living in the house to be conclusive. Are you kidding me? FBI analysts literally spent all night hand analyzing them. I'm like, hey, babe. Yeah?

[A]

Do you know about fingerprints?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, and also, Spec had an alibi from two customers at a local tavern that placed him somewhere else that night. And you know how, how credible two customers of a local tavern usually are?

[A]

Honey, you know, honey, the tavern.

[B]

And then Gaddy just said, said mistaken identity. Mistaken.

[A]

He just said, peace.

[B]

And also, I'd like you all right now, right now to look up a picture of Richard Speck. I shall. And then I want you to tell me if you could ever mistake that man for someone else. He's pretty distinct. Yeah, he's pretty distinct. Yeah, he's foul. It's. It's pretty distinct.

[A]

He's heinous. You may have heard of HelloFresh. They are the number one meal kit in America, making home cooking easier with chef crafted recipes and fresh ingredients delivered straight to your door. This fall, they are serving up even more to love. Bigger, healthier and tastier. HelloFresh has doubled its menu. Do you understand what a big deal that is? Choose from 100 options each week, including new seasonal dishes and recipes from all around the world. Feel great with an even healthier menu. Over 15 high protein recipes each week and recipes that have two or more veggies. Get steak and seafood recipes delivered every week for no extra cost. Now with three times the seafood options. We love to hear it. I actually had the winner winner chicken or Zo dinner, which reminds me of Trixie Mattel and was delicious. It was so delicious. I'm a big sucker for anything with orzo. It was delish. Delish, Delish and I also the other day had rapid stir fried beef honey. You gotta try that. The best way to cook just got better. Go to hellofresh.commorbid10fm now to get 10 free meals plus a free breakfast for life. One per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's hellofresh.com morbid10fm to get 10 free meals plus free breakfast for life. This show is sponsored by Better Help. I feel like it's that time of year where you kind of start to reconnect with people you haven't seen in a while. I got lunch with a friend the other day who I hadn't seen in quite some time and it was so nice. As the seasons change, shorter days don't have to weigh you down. This season, BetterHelp encourages you to reach out, check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones and remind them that you're there. Just like it takes a little courage to send that text text or grab that coffee with somebody you haven't seen in a while. Reaching out for therapy can also feel difficult. But I fully believe that it's worth it. It can leave people wondering, why didn't I do this sooner? Let me tell you, I remember when I first started therapy, like in my adult life, and I said the exact same quote, why did I not do this sooner? I feel so much better. It's like a weight is lifted off your shoulder and both of them, in fact, your shoulders. With over 30, 000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms. BetterHelp therapists are fully licensed in the US and BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so that you can just focus on your therapy goals. This month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10 off their first month at betterhelp.com morbid that's betterhelp H-E-L-P.com morbid why do most of us want to learn a new language?

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's probably not about memorizing grammar tables or topping a letterboard. It's because we want to speak it out in the real world with real people. Babbel gets you there and it gets you there fast. Babel lets you practice real life conversations step by step without the stress. You'll build the confidence to speak up when it matters, from ordering a coffee to chatting with new friends abroad. Elena and one of her littles was learning French. And I said, you're not going to sit there and have French conversations without me, honey. So I started learning French. Bonjour, everybody. I love Babel. It makes it super duper easy for anybody at any skill level to start learning a new language. And I'm having so much fun. And now I know what they're saying. So here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 55 off your Babel subscription at babel.com forward/morbid. Get up to 50 off at babel.com forward slashmorbid, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L.com forward slash Morbid. Rules and restrictions may apply.

[B]

Ultimately, the jury disagreed with Getty. After deliberating for just 45 minutes, they returned guilty verdicts on all eight counts, each one carrying a death sentence.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

When the verdicts were read, Richard Speck looked up at the clerk, but otherwise registered no emotion.

[A]

Is he even capable, do we think?

[B]

Probably not. Detective Brian Carlile told a reporter it was the only verdict the jury could have reached. Breached. Yeah. Noticeably absent in the court that day was the only surviving victim, Cora. Later that, after she did what she needed to do, she didn't give a. She was like, I know what I did. Yeah.

[A]

And she knew that was going to be enough to get him put away.

[B]

Later that afternoon, when William Martin called to tell Cora the news, her response was, congratulations, period. She said, good job. She said, cool.

[A]

I'm gonna go about my life now. Yeah. I'm gonna pretend like this never happened now.

[B]

On June 5, 1967, Richard Speck was sentenced to die in the electorate District chair, pending any appeals guaranteed to him by the Constitution. In 1968, the Illinois Supreme Court upheld the conviction and the sentence. And that conviction was upheld a second time on an appeal in 1971. But just one year later, the Supreme Court ruled the death penalty was unconstitutional. And in November 1972, a judge in the same county re sentenced Richard speck to between 401, 200 years in prison. I don't know if that's enough, effectively giving him a life sentence.

[A]

I love when judges get petty like that, that they're like, okay, can't sentence you to death. How about a gajillion years?

[B]

That's very delicious. Yeah, I really like that. The commutation of Spec's death sentence was a disappointment to some, but the fact remained that he would spend the rest of his life and several other lifetimes behind bars. And yet, throughout all of the hearings and appeals, one thing remained unsolved. Speck's motive for the murders. What the. Like.

[A]

Why did he just walk into that house one day?

[B]

In the years before Charles Manson and his followers reframed the public's understanding of murder and before the FBI began researching and profiling, leading to, you know, what we understand now about this, like, horrifying phenomenon? The general public's perception of murder was pretty simple. Basically, people could understand murder in the commission of a robbery, murder in a domestic violence situation, and even murder in the commission of a sex crime. Understand is a word. I can't think of another word to say it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm not saying they're justifying it. They're saying, like, my brain can comprehend that that happens. Yeah. And that people just couldn't understand. Messed up brain. That is a reason to do that. You know, they could at least understand that what was incomprehensible, though, was murder simply for the sake of murder.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That was just not something people could.

[A]

Wrap their brains around, which is incomprehensible even still to this day.

[B]

And again, I said, like in Mindhunter, you see them, they talk to Richard Speck in Mindhunter.

[A]

I gotta re.

[B]

Watch that he was part of this whole thing. So it's like he. They didn't understand. They desperately wanted to understand why he did this. And honestly, we'll never understand. He's just a piece of.

[A]

I hope someday we can figure out.

[B]

I hope so.

[A]

What happens, I don't know if is a reason, though.

[B]

I really don't.

[A]

There's gotta be.

[B]

I don't know what it could be, but the idea that someone would kill not for any material gain, but just for the satisfaction of killing was just like a concept we couldn't get. Of course, killers like Speck had existed for centuries and again, always would. But in the American imagination, they'd always been relegated to the pages of fiction, not reality. So it's like this. Once it started coming into their regular lives, it was like, what? That's confounding. So because of this specs, mass murder of eight women for no reason was, according to prosecutor William Martin, the end of an age of innocence. Like, suddenly it was like the glass shatter. That's so heavy. And it's very much the glass shatter. Yeah. It was always happening, but now it was publicly recognized that we just didn't know about or we didn't understand. And now the glass Is shattered. And now we have to accept that there are people in this world that kill because they like to kill. And it's like, that must have been a up time.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

We've always lived in a time where people have killed for the sake of killing or for satisfaction because they like to do it. They like to hurt people. So we've never had. We can sit here and, like, wonder why, but we've never lived in a world where it wasn't that that even happened. And then suddenly to be thrust into this new way of thinking of, like, oh, that person over there could just really, like, killing people. Might just do it for no reason.

[A]

What it must have been like to just go about your day in certain ways and not expect to be killed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like that's in the parking lot this morning. I thought I was gonna get killed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that happens all the time. Always think that's a woman's Roman Empire getting killed.

[B]

Getting killed. Yeah.

[A]

That's why we do this, I think.

[B]

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Now, for two days, while he. While we didn't know who he was, People in Chicago lived in abject fear of this unknown killer capable of anything. Just stalking the streets and capable of killing eight people at a time alone. Martin said it changed everything. We all became much more conscious of our security. Eight nurses could be slaughtered in their beds for no reason by a stranger. And if it could happen to eight young women, all on the verge of starting their lives and all well loved and well respected and smart and capable, it could happen to anyone. Anyone. Yeah. In the years that followed, the fear and anxiety that gripped Chicago for those two days Would creep into every corner of America, Obviously, as the nation grew more and more aware that not everyone around them was safe. Yeah. But in many ways, that fear can be traced back to Richard Speck's decision to murder eight innocent women for no reason. Now, maybe it's because of that fear that so many people became kind of obsessed with understanding his crime.

[A]

Well, when there's no answer, you do keep going back to something.

[B]

Gerald Getty wanted to prove his client was insane at the time of the killing. While Dr. Zaporin theorized that it was likely a head injury combined with an organic mental illness that led to it. If they could find an explanation, A lot of people were reasoning maybe we could stop these killers before it even happens, you know, or at the very least, make them safe from themselves, stop it from happening. And there was a real movement and still kind of is to figure out what is happening. Yeah. How this happens and stop it before it actually even begins to start. Right, right. But on December 5, 1991, just one day before his 50th birthday, Richard Speck died.

[A]

One day before his 50th birthday.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. He died at Silver Cross Hospital from a heart attack.

[A]

And his dad had died early of a heart attack.

[B]

That's true. And. Yeah, like, young.

[A]

Like, pretty young.

[B]

Yeah. So that should be where the story of Retreat Spec ends. But there's a weird, bizarre coda at the end of this that I don't think anybody really could have seen coming, like, after death. So in the spring of 1996. He died in 1991.

[A]

That's my literal time. The spring of 1996.

[B]

You know, different. Okay. Big difference. In the spring of 1996, television news anchor Bill Curtis interviewed William Murphy Martin for a special that he was working on for A E Television.

[A]

Oh, A E. After the we know Drama.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm so sorry. You're like, shut the up.

[B]

After the interview was done, Martin was walking Curtis to the elevator. When he suggested Martin come to his office sometime soon, he said, I want to show you something that's terrifying. I would have said, no.

[A]

And is Martin the guy that was like, my man didn't do it?

[B]

No, that's Getty. Martin was the. The on the good side. Oh, okay.

[A]

I'd go to his office.

[B]

So at the time, he's a veteran prosecutor, so he's like, yeah, sure. So at the time, Martin thought Curtis was just being polite, so he acknowledged the offer, but then kind of forgot about it. But a few weeks later, Martin got a call from Bill Curtis's assistant again inviting Martin to Curtis's office to see something he thought would be of some importance. So because there was repeated requests at this time, Martin's like, all right, cool. He must have something to show me. So a few days later, he found himself sitting before a television in Curtis's Chicago office. According to Bill Curtis, he had received a videotape from an unnamed lawyer with access to inmates at Stateville Correctional center, where Richard Speck was serving his sentence. The lawyer claimed that the tapes contained irrefutable evidence of profound corruption and abuse happening in the Illinois prison system. And he wanted Curtis to expose that corruption. Oh, oh. Bill Curtis was like, yeah, I will. But before he showed those tapes to a committee at the state legislator, he wanted William Martin to see them. When Bill Curtis pressed play on the vcr, the first thing that. That Richard. That Martin saw was Richard Speck on the videotape. Okay. Sitting beside another inmate, Ronsel Larimore, in an otherwise empty room with blank walls. There was a third person who has never been identified, operating the camera. Camera. Okay. They're in prison. By the way, why do they have a video camera?

[A]

Yup.

[B]

Martin was so scared right now. You should be. So. Martin was shocked when he saw Speck in the video because it had been decades since he'd last seen Richard Speck. And he remembered him being, like, awkward, like, really skinny, gangly. But in the video, Richard was considerably heavier and looked much older than 47 years old. Okay. And he. Yeah, he was sporting this, like, really odd page boy haircut, too, and was wearing old paint smeared clothing. Okay. It's a very unsettling image.

[A]

Have you seen it?

[B]

The image? I've seen an image from it. Oh, but should I Google now? Careful when Googling. Yeah, I will give you that.

[A]

Okay. I'll have you show me the one. Oh, no.

[B]

The video itself. The fact that unsupervised inmates had access to a video camera in an empty room. Yeah, weird. Were surprising to Martin and certainly seemed like evidence of poor prison management right off the bat. But the content of the video was what shocked him the most. In the video, Laramore can be heard interviewing Speck, and it's revealed that the two of them have been in a sexual relationship for many years. Richard is seen on the video performing sex acts and using drugs. On camera.

[A]

They're in prison using drugs and perform. So they're making, like, a sex tape in prison?

[B]

Yeah. Okay. And he also reveals that he had some kind of hormones smuggled into prison which he had been taking and no one had known about it. It. Okay. And then he goes on to. Now, this is Richard Speck. He goes on to remove his clothing and can be seen walking back and forth in front of the camera wearing nothing but a pair of women's underwear.

[A]

Which I assume he's in a men's prison. So where did he get those?

[B]

Not real sure. Just before the video ends, the conversation turns to the crimes for which Richard Speck was in there for. Laramore asks, what's. What are you locked up for? And he says, eight counts of murder. And Larimore smiles. Ew. And says, did you kill them? And Richard chuckles and says, sure, I did. And when he's asked why he did it, which is the question of a strange thing that everyone had been asking forever, he does not hesitate even a little. And he says it just wasn't their night.

[A]

What the fuck?

[B]

Isn't that the most chilling Thing you've ever heard. Ew. Like the most chilling thing. It just wasn't their night.

[A]

It just wasn't there.

[B]

No hesitation. It just wasn't their night. Like, what the.

[A]

What does that even mean, dude?

[B]

What does that even mean?

[A]

Like, to be so, like, horrifying. Is cavalier the right word for that? Yeah, that just popped into my brain.

[B]

Yeah, it just wasn't their night. And they. And he even asked him, like, why. He's like, why did you bring a gun and not use it? And he said, it makes too much noise. So it was just for, like, so once. Intimidation. He's proving that he knew exactly what's in there to do. So that whole thing where he was like. Because then he says something like, all I want to do was burglary. It started off as burglary. No, baby. You just kind of showed your ass, though, because you said that the gun would be too loud. So you were planning to use it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You were planning to use something to hurt them, and you knew the gun would be too loud. That's why you brought the knife.

[A]

I don't think I will ever forget. It just wasn't their night. Yeah, that's like.

[B]

It just wasn't their night.

[A]

That's like. What's her name? Brenda.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Who said I just don't like Mondays?

[B]

Yep. Like, that's up. And he even says. He talks to him. This is when he says, like, strangle a person, it's not like what you see on tv about three seconds and they're dead. You've got to go at it for three and a half minutes. Minutes. It takes a lot of strength. I'm just like. I'm shook right now. Yeah, He's a horrifying human being. So again, up until this point, it'd been decades to try to figure out why the he murdered eight innocent women.

[A]

And nobody ever really got an answer.

[B]

And it kind of. But it was also kind of just right in front of them the whole time. He wasn't mentally ill. He didn't have any neurological disorders that caused him to kill without knowing what he was doing. He was a shitty person. A petty criminal who'd found himself caught in the act of robbery and sexual assault. And instead of going to jail for his crimes, he just decided to wipe out all the witnesses. And he went in there thinking, well, maybe I'll kill some people tonight. He just didn't care. Like, it wasn't. And he was pissed off. I think he was a pissy little bitch, and I think he Got into moods and he got into rages and when he got mad, got off the handle, someone else was gonna paint for it. And so I think that was part of it.

[A]

That's got to be like, even though like we, like we're saying like he's not mentally ill. That has, it has to be some mental illness that we just haven't figured out yet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

I don't even know. I don't even know if I want to classify it as a mental illness. I think it's like he's missing something. Yeah. I miss a piece of what makes you a human. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think is different from a mental illness. No, I don't think, I don't think you're wrong. Is missing a fundamental piece of what makes you a human being. I think we just, just haven't figured out what that piece is yet. I think eventually we will figure out what the pieces are that fundamentally make you a human being and keep your humanity intact. And I think he is missing it. Or it's irrevocably broken.

[A]

Well, I think a lot of it has to do with the brain and like which part of the brains connect and which part of the, like which pathways are up.

[B]

And it's.

[A]

I, I do feel like if we keep studying the brain, like we will figure it out.

[B]

I think.

[A]

And I. It's got to be some pathway to like a dip. Like two different parts of the brain.

[B]

That just don't connect. Yeah.

[A]

Or that maybe two parts of the brain that do connection aren't supposed to. I don't know.

[B]

But it, it's.

[A]

I, I hope I'm alive when they figure it out.

[B]

I know. Cuz the thing is like he was in a frenzied state.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

During this like frenzy. Like animalistic, like blackout.

[A]

Not blackout, but like rage wild frenzy.

[B]

And only because of that, only because he was in such a frenzied, rage filled, just chaotic state. That's why he failed to notice that one of his intended targets had disappeared and wasn't sitting in the room. And it's only thanks to the bravery of Korra Amaro that Speck was held accountable at all. And he even says that in the video, which further goes to show you that Korra is the fucking hero here. Because in the video they ask him, Larry Moore asked him how did it feel after killing all those ladies. That's how he says it. And he says, like I always felt have no feeling. If you're asking if I felt sorry. No. And he Says a very like. And he says, did none of them get away? Somebody else asked that. Yeah. And he says one did. That's why I'm sitting here now. And he says, if none of them got away, I wouldn't be sitting here. So he unknowingly also just proved that Cora is the badass of the century here. Yeah. And she's the reason he's behind bars.

[A]

I can't imagine being Korra and hearing that.

[B]

Yeah. That you're the reason that he knows it. That's been sitting in prison.

[A]

That's the biggest.

[B]

That must have been simultaneously horrifying and also so validated satisfying because it's like, you know, he's been. Been sitting in prison for however long just thinking about the fact that you're so great. Which would be terrifying because thinking about someone that evil thinking about you and at all having any kind of like, just vengeful thoughts against you would.

[A]

Justifying having every single day to sit there in a cell thinking about you.

[B]

But then also sitting there and being like, what are you gonna do about it?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And now you're dead. So that was the end of your life. Was sitting there thinking about how I fucked your life up.

[A]

This was one of the gnarliest, but also at the same time, most fascinating cases I think you've ever told.

[B]

It's a wild one. Like, truly, truly wild.

[A]

The end of that is so chilling.

[B]

It just wasn't their night. No.

[A]

I hate that.

[B]

Yeah. I. What a. What a cold answer. It's like the. It's cold as ice. That answer. Just no thought at all.

[A]

It almost feels like he's trying to be funny.

[B]

Yeah. But it's like, if you think that's funny. Yeah.

[A]

That's dark. That's so dark.

[B]

Yeah. We. If you read more about the. The video is a wild Martin, William Martin sitting there watching. That must have been like, what the. Did you just show me?

[A]

He was like, you really wanted me.

[B]

To see this video.

[A]

Like, I just didn't need to see this. The. Those people must see and then just. They have to go home to their families. Is nuts. Just, like, live like lawyers, defense attorneys, prosecutors, police, like, prison guards. Anybody in that field.

[B]

I. Yeah.

[A]

You see the gnarliest.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

It's wild.

[B]

Yeah. So that's the. That's the case of Richard Speck.

[A]

Well, I need to go cut off the top of my head, take out my brain and wash it and put.

[B]

It back in what I have to do.

[A]

And then I'll see you later. So while I do that. We hope you keep listening, and we.

[B]

Hope you keep it weird.

[A]

But not so weird as Richard Speck.

[B]

Honey, never don't do that. Never do that.

[A]

I don't even know how you could.

[B]

Possibly cora for life.

[A]

Cora5ever keep it as weird as Korra?

[B]

Yeah, keep it as badass as Korra. Hell yeah.

[A]

Are you ready to get spicy?

[B]

These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy.

[A]

Sriracha sounds pretty spicy to me.

[B]

Um, a little spicy, but also tangy and sweet.

[A]

Maybe it's time to turn up the heat.

[B]

Or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy. Try Doritos Golden Sriracha. Spicy but not too spicy.

[A]

Dermatologists have long highlighted the benefits of indoor humidity for healthy, glowing skin. Dry air can start damaging your skin in just 30 minutes. That's where canopy humidifier comes in. Recommended by leading dermatologists, the Canopy Humidifier is a completely reimagined humidifier with invisible clean moisture. The best kind for your skin. Go to GetCanopy Co to save $25 on your purchase today with Kanopy's Filter subscription. Even better, use Code Serious to save an additional 10% off your canopy purchase. Your skin will thank you.