The Murder of Olga Kupczyk

Summary

Morbid Podcast - Episode Summary

The Murder of Olga Kupczyk

Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Date: March 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this chilling and darkly comedic episode, Ash and Alaina dive into the true-crime story of Olga Kupczyk, a Canadian nurse whose marriage to Frank Duncan set off tragic events thanks to her obsessive and dangerous mother-in-law, Elizabeth Duncan. Set in the late 1950s, the episode details Olga’s disappearance and the increasingly disturbing actions of Elizabeth, exploring issues of codependency, maternal possessiveness, and the devastating consequences of unchecked obsession.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Banter and Tone Setting

• The episode opens with Ash recovering from a lengthy dental procedure, leading to playful banter about post-sedation antics and the perils of on-air snacking.
  • [03:47] Ash: “I had a lengthy dental procedure done… Probably the last of them, which is fun.”
  • [04:11] Alaina: “I got you a strawberry shake, and you would have thought that I handed you a million dollars.”

Introduction to the Case

• Alaina introduces the “crazy case” of Olga Kupczyk, likening it in its twisted dynamic to “Monster-in-Law” with Jane Fonda and J.Lo, but warns it’s more horrific and true.
  • [08:24] Alaina: “This is the murder, unfortunately, of Olga [Kupczyk]… Reminiscent of [Monster-in-Law], but like real that it was deeply upsetting.”

Olga’s Background and Entry into Frank’s Life

• Olga, described as bright, friendly, and natural caretaker, moved from Vancouver to Santa Barbara to complete nursing school and began working at St. Francis Hospital in 1957.
• There, she meets Frank Duncan while he is caring for his mother, Elizabeth, after her suicide attempt following a family dispute.
  • [11:17] Frank to a detective: “My mother’s terrified of being alone and she’s afraid of losing me.” (Quoted by Alaina)

Frank and Elizabeth: The Troubled Mother-Son Dynamic

• Elizabeth’s obsessively close, codependent relationship with Frank goes well beyond the 'mama’s boy' trope.
  • [13:14] Alaina: “Frank’s relationship with his mother was, quote, very intimate, such as a man and wife should be.” – Emma Short (Elizabeth’s friend)
• Rumors abound about their inappropriate closeness—with courthouse workers mocking Frank as the “wicked wascal wabbit.”
• Elizabeth becomes aggressive, possessive, and abusive—ostracized for her behavior, even banned from the Salvation Army.

Elizabeth’s Harassment of Olga

• Once Frank and Olga begin dating, Elizabeth aggressively intervenes: harassing phone calls, threats (“I could easily get rid of her by pushing her down some stairs”), and attempts to slander Olga’s reputation.
  • [16:15] Alaina: “Elizabeth made an offhand comment about Olga not being good enough for her son and how she could easily get rid of her by pushing her down some stairs.”
  • [17:24] Alaina: “At first, the calls were chiller… but she was pleading for Olga to, quote, leave her son alone.”

Escalation: Pregnancy and Marriage

• Olga becomes pregnant. Elizabeth explodes upon learning the news, vowing to never let Frank and Olga be together.
  • [22:32] Alaina: “Elizabeth responded by telling Olga, ‘You’ll never marry my son. I’ll kill you first.’”
• Despite Elizabeth making Frank promise not to marry, Frank and Olga wed in secret. Elizabeth tracks them down to their motel wedding night, banging on the door until Frank, in a shocking display of filial loyalty, agrees to go home with his mother.
  • [24:10] Alaina: “Frank agreed to go home with his mommy rather than let the scene go on any further.”
• Alaina and Ash dissect these red flags, incredulous at the levels of dysfunction and possessiveness.
  • [24:26] Alaina: “If your mother-in-law shows up at your place of consummation on the night of your marriage and starts banging on your door and your husband is like, ‘I have to go home with her’… you annul the [expletive] out of that marriage.”

Elizabeth’s Manipulations Intensify

• Elizabeth discovers their new address within days and continues her campaign of intimidation—abusing, slandering, and threatening Olga, including attempts to offer money for an acid attack and murder.
  • [27:08] Alaina: “Elizabeth went to a friend, Barbara Reed, and offered her $1500 to, quote, throw acid in the face of a girl who was framing her son and then toss her over a cliff.”
  • Ash: “My pregnant daughter-in-law. And I’ll give you $1500?” (27:20)
• When Elizabeth can’t break them up through fear alone, she concocts a fraudulent annulment by hiring an ex-con to impersonate Frank, while she pretends to be Olga, tricking a judge into ending the marriage.
  • [30:22] Alaina: “She hired someone from the Salvation Army to pose as her son, she poses as her son’s wife, and goes to the courthouse and asks for a fucking annulment.”

Olga’s Vulnerability and Disappearance

• By late fall, Frank moves back in with his mother; Olga, humiliated and harassed, is left alone while pregnant.
• Despite ongoing, widely shared threats from Elizabeth (“I’ll kill her if it’s the last thing I do.” [35:07]), no one intervenes.
  • Ash: “This bitch is walking around literally being like, hi, my name's Elizabeth. I'm literally going to murder my daughter-in-law.” (35:15)
• Olga’s final letter to her family is dated November 12, 1958. A week later, Frank reports her missing—prompted by concern from Olga’s coworkers.
• Her apartment is found undisturbed, belongings and baby clothes left behind—clear she hadn’t intended to leave on her own.

Police Investigation and Shifting Narratives

• The landlady and coworkers are adamant Olga would never have run away, pointing police firmly toward Elizabeth’s harassment.
• Frank gives conflicting statements to police, minimizing Elizabeth’s relationship with Olga and deflecting suspicion.
  • [46:59] Alaina: “When it came to the matter of Elizabeth’s relationship with Olga, Frank quickly rejected the stories that investigators had heard. He said, that’s just gossip.”
• Elizabeth tries to further cloud the investigation by claiming she’s the real target of an extortion ring, shifting suspicion onto petty criminals and a local cafe owner.
• Detectives grow suspicious as none of Elizabeth’s claims check out, and she refuses to cooperate when suspects are found and lineups organized.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Alaina [16:13]: “Bitch, you were in a coma and now you’re not. Thanks, Olga.”
• Ash [24:15]: “If your mother-in-law shows up at your place of consummation… starts banging on the door and your husband is like, I have to go home with her, you annul the [expletive] out of that marriage.”
• Alaina [31:14]: “Attorney Hal Hammonds, who had no other choice but to be an attorney. Hal Hammonds is such a good [name].”
• Ash [35:15]: “This bitch is walking around literally being like, hi, my name’s Elizabeth. I’m literally going to murder my daughter-in-law.”
• Ash [55:33]: “Frank is the poussoir of the century. Of the century.”

Notable Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 08:24 | Alaina introduces the murder of Olga Kupczyk | | 11:19 | Frank’s codependent relationship with Elizabeth described | | 13:14 | Emma Short comments on Frank & Elizabeth’s inappropriate closeness | | 16:15 | Elizabeth threatens Olga during early meeting | | 22:32 | Elizabeth explicitly threatens Olga when pregnancy is revealed | | 24:10 | Wedding night—Elizabeth interrupts, Frank leaves wife for mother | | 27:08 | Elizabeth tries to hire someone for an acid attack/murder | | 30:22 | Elizabeth and ex-con fraudulently annul the marriage | | 35:07 | Elizabeth tells landlady she’ll kill Olga if it’s the last thing she does | | 38:25 | Frank reports Olga missing after coworkers raise alarm | | 41:08 | Landlady Dorothy dismisses notion that Olga harmed herself | | 46:59 | Frank minimizes mother’s animosity to police | | 55:33 | Hosts label Frank “poussoir of the century” | | 56:02 | Fun fact: “You’re taller in the morning than you are at night.” |

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Unfolding Questions & Cliffhanger (End of Part One)

• Despite repeated, public threats and increasingly erratic criminal activity by Elizabeth, people in authority and Frank himself repeatedly fail to intervene in any meaningful way.
• The episode ends with police catching Elizabeth in lies and non-cooperation, setting the stage for new breakthroughs.
• Part one closes on the chilling realization that Olga’s fears were justified, and with the case about to break, listeners are left in suspense.

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Tone and Takeaways

• The hosts maintain their signature blend of morbid humor, incredulity, and empathy—balancing snark (especially toward Frank and Elizabeth) with genuine respect for Olga’s plight.
• The case is treated with seriousness despite the comedic asides, highlighting systemic failures and the dangers of maternal possessiveness gone unchecked.
  • Alaina [57:00]: “But not so weird that you are this kind of mother-in-law. No, because that is crazy on top of your head.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode is gripping, infuriating, and a powerful illustration of how toxic family dynamics, when ignored or enabled, can become catastrophic. Ash and Alaina combine thorough research with hard-hitting commentary and relatable humor, ensuring listeners leave invested and ready for part two.

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To be continued in Part Two!

Transcript

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[Alaina]

I'm Ash. I'm Alaina and this is morbid.

[Ash]

This is morbid.

[Alaina]

Guys, I love doing this podcast but I am a little upset right now because I was eating some dill pickle pretzels that were really good and I can't eat those on air so I had to stop and it was upsetting

[Ash]

for me and she said that's your fault so I never said that.

[Alaina]

I never said that. You guys this crazy over here.

[Ash]

This crazy crazy. I'm post sedation.

[Alaina]

Okay, post five hours sedation.

[Ash]

I had a lengthy dental procedure Done. Probably the last of them, which is fun.

[Alaina]

That's exciting.

[Ash]

But it was. It was wild. And Ash was my. My pick me up person because we had John stay with the ladies, and she got to see me full. Full post sedation.

[Alaina]

I will never. I'm. You're lucky that I'm a good, inherently good person, because I could have used. I could have done you so nasty and just taken photos of you after. I really wish I had. Actually. I do regret not taking at least one photo just for myself.

[Ash]

Damn.

[Alaina]

I walked in there, you know, just for me. For a lol.

[Ash]

Just for me.

[Alaina]

I had walked in there, and she's got these big sunglasses on because, you know, like the sunglasses they give you at the dentist. And just like, chipmunked out to the nines because you were packed with gauze, blood all over her teeth and her lips. I was like, hey, like, how is she? And they were like, oh, she's back there. Like, you can. You can say hi to her. I walk in, and she just slowly rises and goes, what the. And I go, baby girl, are you okay?

[Ash]

I literally. Did you go, baby girl?

[Alaina]

I said, you were so baby girl

[Ash]

coded in that moment.

[Alaina]

I said, I have to. I have to care for her. It was crazy.

[Ash]

But you know what? I'm a fair. I'm not a combative, sedated person, which is good.

[Alaina]

No, you're hilarious.

[Ash]

I just go with it.

[Alaina]

I got you a strawberry shake, and you would have thought that I handed you a million dollars.

[Ash]

You're like, I got you in the car. Do you remember this?

[Alaina]

You go, oh, my God, you're the best. I think you said, like, you're such a G. Or like, something like that. I was like, okay.

[Ash]

I was really excited. I do remember being very excited for the strawberry shake. It was hilarious. Oh, yeah. It was a whole thing. But I think I'm. I'm feeling better today.

[Alaina]

You look better.

[Ash]

I'm not as chipmunky.

[Alaina]

I told John. I was like. Because I texted him to update him while you were down and out. And I was like, oh, my God, she looks great. She's coming out of sedation.

[Ash]

I didn't want to lie today.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I saw him.

[Alaina]

I go, I lied to you.

[Ash]

He's like, oh, I know it's been a trip, but I'm here. Yeah, but everybody's been so helpful. And I'm not lisping, so that's good.

[Alaina]

I know you're not lisping at all.

[Ash]

I was worried that I would be.

[Alaina]

And your teeth look awesome.

[Ash]

Thank You.

[Alaina]

You're welcome.

[Ash]

So, you know, we're all fixed, and I don't know why I said that. That I was under. I was supposed sedation. Oh, maybe because I was being a dick. Maybe by saying that you said that it was everybody's fault, but.

[Alaina]

Oh, yeah. Maybe by just directing a quote that I never said. Wait, I just picked up a pretzel to eat it. Like, I. I could just eat it here. I can't. I need to be stopped.

[Ash]

They're really good.

[Alaina]

They are. They're. I got them at the big Y, and they're like, dill pickle flavored.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah.

[Alaina]

Change your life.

[Ash]

Dill pickle flavored, Anything.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Is really where it's at.

[Alaina]

It is. I love a dill pickle moment.

[Ash]

Yeah. Like, we had dill pickle Pringles the other day.

[Alaina]

Oh, fudge.

[Ash]

Yeah, fudgeing. Life changing.

[Alaina]

Wait, have you seen this whole thing? It's like a whole, like, switch up. So, like, it's like Ruffles, Doritos, and Cheetos. They're doing, like. Let me pull it up so I can actually say something. You want to tell me that, like,

[Ash]

they're actually so healthy for you?

[Alaina]

No.

[Ash]

It's crazy. Did you see this bombshell report? Cheetos are actually so healthy. No, I was like, what? Give me some. It's a.

[Alaina]

It's a flavor swap. Okay, ready? So this is going to be a lot. So it's Ruffles cheddar chips in Doritos form. Oh, and then Cool Ranch Doritos in ruffle chip form. Oh, and then finally, the one that I really, really want to try is lay's barbecue chip in Cheeto form.

[Ash]

Oh, I want every one of these.

[Alaina]

This is a dream.

[Ash]

This is a revelation.

[Alaina]

We need to. A revelation. We need to order all of them, and we need to do, like, a live tasting.

[Ash]

Y. I need that.

[Alaina]

I'm gonna figure it out. We should probably order them soon because I think it's a big thing right now, so they're probably gonna, like, sell out.

[Ash]

What was the first one?

[Alaina]

It's Ruffles, cheddar and sour cream. That flavor, but as a Dorito.

[Ash]

Oh, okay. That's. That one I'm really excited about.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Actually, it's hard to say which I'm most excited about. I'm really excited about the barbecue chip as a Cheeto, but I also love Ruffles. I don't really like Cool Ranch that much, though.

[Ash]

Oh, I like Cool Ranch.

[Alaina]

I like the cheese one better.

[Ash]

The nacho cheese.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Your kids had that at my house the other day. And Drew doesn't like cheesy chips, so I just have a whole bag of Doritos for me.

[Ash]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Alaina]

Yeah, I feel rich.

[Ash]

Hell yeah. You are rich.

[Alaina]

I am rich in Doritos.

[Ash]

And that's important.

[Alaina]

All right. You have a plug.

[Ash]

Oh, I have a little quick pluggy plug. We're running low on the signed Barnes and Noble copies of the Butcher Legacy,

[Alaina]

so you better go get those.

[Ash]

So go get it. Go pre order it now before it's gone because we're like literally at the end of the stock. And. And that's it for right now.

[Alaina]

Yeah. And those are at Barnes and Noble

[Ash]

Preorder my Barnes and Noble. They have signed copies. Go get them.

[Alaina]

Go get them. Go get them up the list of them.

[Ash]

And if you just want some Butcher Legacy in your life, which you should. Yeah.

[Alaina]

Let's go, girls.

[Ash]

Hello, ButcherLegacy.com. you can get them anywhere. You can get it.

[Alaina]

You can get them anywhere.

[Ash]

Get the Butcher Legacy pre on pre order anywhere you want to order it. Yeah. And yeah, go scoop up those signed copies at Barnes and Noble.

[Alaina]

Hell yeah. So I have a crazy case today. It's. It's somewhat old timey, like in the 50s.

[Ash]

Oh, here we go.

[Alaina]

This is the murder, unfortunately, of Olga

[Ash]

K.

[Alaina]

While I was reading this. Have you ever seen the movie Monster in law with JLo and Jane?

[Ash]

Oh, yeah.

[Alaina]

It was so reminiscent of that, but like real that it was deeply upsetting. I was like, that's scary. This is if that movie played out in real life and. And was even more awful somehow.

[Ash]

You wonder if they had any kind of inspiration.

[Alaina]

I don't know.

[Ash]

Or if someone knew about the case and kind of like drew a little bit of it.

[Alaina]

They may have.

[Ash]

Maybe.

[Alaina]

I mean, unfortunately, mother in laws do just also get a bad rep.

[Ash]

They do. That's right.

[Alaina]

Rep rapper, rep rap. You have a bad rap. Okay, my other.

[Ash]

It could be both. Right. Because it's reputation. But you always hear like, oh, it has a bad rap. Is it both? We're discovering right now live on the air while I hold a heating pad to my face. The correct.

[Alaina]

Yeah, the heating pad on your face is actually insane. Can I take a photo? Can I actually have this?

[Ash]

Yeah, you look cute over there.

[Alaina]

You just look ridiculous.

[Ash]

Oh, you're so adorable. Okay.

[Alaina]

The correct idiomatic phase is bad rap, which means an undeserved negative reputation. Which is weird because it's. Reputation.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

I don't know, but. Oh. It derives from the 19th century Slang for a rap, a criminal charge. That's why, like your rap sheet.

[Ash]

That makes sense.

[Alaina]

All right. All right.

[Ash]

So we figured it out.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Mother in laws in general just get a bad rap. But we have good ones.

[Ash]

Mine's awesome.

[Alaina]

We're not gonna talk about a good one today.

[Ash]

No.

[Alaina]

So Olga Neddy Kupchik was born March 24, 1928 in Manitoba, Canada, to Elias and Justina Kupchik. Olga was super pretty, super smart, she was friendly, she had a ton of friends, a great social group. Everybody said from a very early age, too, that she was a caretaker and by all accounts, a good one. Unfortunately, there's not that much known about her early life in Canada. So we're gonna start when she met 30 year old Frank Duncan in the fall of 1957.

[Ash]

Let's go.

[Alaina]

That fall, Olga had moved from Vancouver to Santa Barbara to finish nursing school. And when she finished nursing school, she started a job at St. Francis Hospital. It was there in November that Olga met Frank, who had come by one night to visit his mom, who was in the hospital. Earlier that month, the night before his 30th birthday, Frank and his mother Elizabeth got into a fucking explosive argument.

[Ash]

Damn.

[Alaina]

She used his money to buy a beauty parlor without his permission.

[Ash]

That's a big thing to buy.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Buying a beauty parlor without somebody's permission is crazy with their money.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So in a fit of anger, Frank, who had lived with his mom his entire life up to that point, announced his desire for some fucking space.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

And asked if she would please find a new place to live. And pretty heavily suggested that she do that. Later, he told a detective, my mother's terrified of being alone and she's afraid of losing me.

[Ash]

Oh, that's sad.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Devastating.

[Ash]

For right now.

[Alaina]

It is for right now.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Devastated by her son's decision, Elizabeth Duncan retaliated, and this is a trigger warning, by taking an overdose of the sleep sleeping pill Secondal.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah.

[Alaina]

By the time Frank had discovered what she had done, Elizabeth had lost consciousness. And so she was rushed to St Francis Hospital where she stayed in a coma for nearly a week.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Alaina]

Yeah. This was a big deal. So Frank obviously felt like this whole thing was his entire fault. Like he was really upset, of course, that his desire for independence had caused his mother's overdose. So he stuck by his mom's side every single day that she was in the hospital, really trying to get back in her good graces. He was like, you don't have to move. It's fine.

[Ash]

Yeah, that's awful.

[Alaina]

But privately, at least some of his interest in being by his mother's side was also the daily opportunity to chat with Elizabeth's nurse, 29 year old Olga Kupchik.

[Ash]

Oh.

[Alaina]

By the time Elizabeth was discharged from the hospital roughly two weeks later, Frank and Olga had started dating, much to Elizabeth's disappointment.

[Ash]

Oh, Elizabeth, come on.

[Alaina]

She did not like that. So in the years that followed, Frank's relationship with his mom became the source of a lot of salacious rumors and speculation.

[Ash]

Oh.

[Alaina]

Frank said, mother has always been very proud of me. And I suppose I was the apple of her eye.

[Ash]

It's the mother.

[Alaina]

All I can think of. If you guys are Bravo heads and you're not listening to, watch what crappens with Rani and Ben. What are you doing? There's this show called Southern Charm. If you're not a Bravo head and there's this guy Whitney on it, and he. I don't know that he lives with his mother still. He might.

[Ash]

He did on the show, he did

[Alaina]

for a while, and Ms. Patricia forever. But when they do their impression of Whitney talking to his mother, they always go, mother.

[Ash]

And they always like, mother.

[Alaina]

It's, it's just, you gotta go find a Southern charm recap.

[Ash]

That's all. I can listen to it.

[Alaina]

So that's why. That's what I was channeling when I did Frank's quote there. So he was like, you know, she's the apple of my eye. She's proud of me. But there's all these rumors. Now, when it came to the suggestion that their relationship was anything other than that of a normal mother and son, Frank vehemently denied the insinuation. But there were plenty of insinuations that they had a weird fucking relationship.

[Ash]

Damn.

[Alaina]

Still, to even the most casual observer, Frank's relationship with his mother was far and beyond the normal mama's boy stereotype.

[Ash]

Which is scary. It is. It's really freaky because the mama's boy thing in and of itself is scary, but then it's far beyond that. That's scary.

[Alaina]

Yeah, Agreed. So in a court deposition the following year, which should tell you something, Elizabeth's friend. So Frank's mother's friend, Emma Short, she said Frank's relationship with his mother was, quote, very intimate, such as a man and wife should be.

[Ash]

I'm sorry, what?

[Alaina]

Yeah, that's what she said.

[Ash]

That is far beyond. Yeah. What a mother and son should be.1 hundo percent. Holy shit.

[Alaina]

So with the exception of a very small period during law school when he lived in San Francisco. Frank always lived with Elizabeth and was always there to cater to her every last need. Even when he was in school and living away from home, he would go to her house to have dinner every single night.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Alaina]

Yeah, they were close. Elizabeth and Frank had always had a really codependent relationship. But Elizabeth became significantly more needy about seven years earlier when Frank's stepfather walked out because he could no longer tolerate her demanding and abusive nature.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah.

[Alaina]

From that point on, Elizabeth seemed to rely on Frank entirely for companionship, emotional support, financial support, validation, whatever.

[Ash]

It was just things you need from a partner.

[Alaina]

Yes, just absolutely every last thing. Later, when Frank would come up in a conversation, Olga's friends would refer to him as a big baby.

[Ash]

Oh, gross. Yeah.

[Alaina]

And the women who worked at the courthouse where he occasionally practiced law privately referred to him, this is mean. This is bullying. They called him a wicked wascal wabbit because they were mocking the way that his mother infantilized him. But he also had a slight snake speech impediments. So they were being really mean.

[Ash]

Yeah, that's mean.

[Alaina]

Yeah, don't do that.

[Ash]

Ew.

[Alaina]

He can't help that.

[Ash]

Ew. Yeah, I'm actually really mad at them for that.

[Alaina]

Yeah, I really don't like that.

[Ash]

That actually pisses me off.

[Alaina]

Olga's friends calling him a big baby, fully support.

[Ash]

Call him a big baby.

[Alaina]

But making fun of a speech impediment. Grow up.

[Ash]

That's not something he can control you.

[Alaina]

To quote my papa. Grow up.

[Ash]

Grow up.

[Alaina]

Get a life. Get a life.

[Ash]

There it is.

[Alaina]

So regardless of how her friends felt about Frank, Olga was very drawn to him. He was quiet, he was unassuming. He was a lawyer. Like, you know, there's a lot there. By the time she was just discharged from the hospital, Elizabeth Duncan could obviously see that Olga and Frank were attracted to each other. And the following week, her suspicions were confirmed when Frank invited Olga to the house. Which is very normal. He's a 30 year old dude, he's gonna be dating and you know, he wants you to meet this lovely young woman who was also taking care of you, by the way.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly.

[Alaina]

Like meet her in a little more.

[Ash]

It's honestly like case scenario. Yeah, like you already know she's a caretaker also.

[Alaina]

Bitch, you were in a coma and now you're not. Thanks, Olga.

[Ash]

Thank you, Olga. Hello.

[Alaina]

So during that visit, Elizabeth made an offhand comment about Olga not being good enough for her son and how she could easily get rid of her by pushing her down some stairs. I would have run. And this is hindsight. This is hindsight. I would have run for the fucking hills.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

If a man's ever brought me home and his mom was like, you're not good enough, and I could push you down the stairs, you gotta get. I'm sorry. But, yeah, nothing is gonna make up for that. Yeah, nothing's gonna make up for that.

[Ash]

Something's wrong here. Yeah. If that's the feeling from the mom, something's wrong.

[Alaina]

Ain't nothing good enough to keep me in that relationship.

[Ash]

I don't care who you are.

[Alaina]

No. So Emma had heard this. Emma, who is Elizabeth's friend, she had heard this kind of talk from Elizabeth before, so she really didn't think anything of it at the time.

[Ash]

She's like, ah, that's just her.

[Alaina]

She was like, she's just angry. She's blown off steam. She's not actually gonna push this lady down the stairs. So whether she was serious about pushing her son's girlfriend down the stairs or not, Elizabeth had every intention of making her objections to this relationship known. Almost immediately after they started dating, Olga started getting calls from Elizabeth not only at home, but at work too.

[Ash]

Huh.

[Alaina]

At first, the calls were chiller, not. Not polite in any way. But it was just Elizabeth explaining how important Frank was to her and pleading for Olga to, quote, leave her son alone. What? We're just like. Like, we think you. We think the other one is cool. We want to. Like, this should be a good thing, babe. We want to spend time together. We're getting to know each other.

[Ash]

You can't date your son.

[Alaina]

You can't. It's actually super against the law. You can't be doing that. But when her appeals to Olga sympathy didn't work, Elizabeth just took a new, decidedly more nasty approach. Former landlord Olga's former landlord, Dorothy Barnett, said she claimed that Olga was unfit. Said she was a foreigner.

[Ash]

Elizabeth, get the out of here. Ew. Elizabeth, what are you doing?

[Alaina]

She's also like, I just cannot. Eventually, the calls became vaguely threatening with. With Elizabeth implying that she would end the relationship one way or another.

[Ash]

What the.

[Alaina]

Which, like, how do you handle that?

[Ash]

That's the thing.

[Alaina]

And how. Like, also, I'm like, frank, hello.

[Ash]

Hello.

[Alaina]

Frank, can you do something here?

[Ash]

That's what I'm wondering here. I'm like, where's Frank in all this? Are you going to do something? Step in?

[Alaina]

No, no, no. Period.

[Ash]

Cool.

[Alaina]

Yeah. This gets crazy. Oh, by the way, I didn't even mention this is going to be two parts because it's that crazy.

[Ash]

Whoa.

[Alaina]

So after about a month of daily phone calls. So 30 to 31 days of daily phone calls, unless it was February, Olga had her phone number changed, hoping that it would put an end to Elizabeth's harassment. But unfortunately, all it did was make Elizabeth more determined to run Olga out of Frank's life. When she wasn't able to get Olga by phone, she just started calling the hospital while Olga was working. What? Olga's friend said that she was being threatened and harassed by Elizabeth on a daily basis at that point.

[Ash]

Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't. This is not worth. No, I don't.

[Alaina]

I mean, he had to have been a fine.

[Ash]

I was going to say, is he just stellar in every way?

[Alaina]

He had to.

[Ash]

I can't imagine this being worth it.

[Alaina]

He had to have been top notch.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So in like every way.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

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[Alaina]

Now during the early months of their relationship, you were just like, hey, where's Frank?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Frank and Olga just tried their best to ignore his mom, her constant interference and harassment. Which would be kind of impossible, I was gonna say. But In May of 1958, Olga discovered that she was pregnant. And that changed everything.

[Ash]

Yeah, it sure does.

[Alaina]

Olga's pregnancy, Frank found, put himself in a difficult position. He was excited about the baby and he wanted to start a family with Olga. But he thought back on the previous year when he asked his mother to move out. And he knew that breaking the news to her was going to be pretty fucking tough.

[Ash]

This is insane.

[Alaina]

It's wild like this.

[Ash]

Like what?

[Alaina]

Never have I ever heard another case like this except when I watched Monster in Law with Jane Fonda and JLo. This is wild and this is worse. So a few weeks later, they decided, you know, it's probably time to inform Elizabeth that she's going to be a grandma, which would probably be and should be the most exciting time for a lady.

[Ash]

Absolutely.

[Alaina]

As like an older lady with an accomplished son.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So all they could do was really just mentally prepare themselves for whatever fight she was going to put up because they knew that she wasn't going to receive the news well. But they were like, I mean, we have to tell her.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

It turned out that they were right to expect the worst. When she found out about the pregnancy, she exploded and declared that she would never allow them to live together.

[Ash]

I'm sorry. He's the groan ass man. What is going on right now?

[Alaina]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Ash]

You can't conceive of it. This is a lot.

[Alaina]

So when Olga responded with uncharacteristic anger, like, Olga was usually very chill and was like, okay, Elizabeth, like, we're gonna be together. So you just get this lucky that

[Ash]

Olga is that way.

[Alaina]

But she got really upset. She said, no, we plan to be married. Like, we are going to be together. We're going to have this child. Like, get over it. Elizabeth responded by telling Olga, you'll never marry my son. I'll kill you first.

[Ash]

And is this just with Frank standing there being like, mother, I guess, Silly mother. Yeah. Like what?

[Alaina]

Lol.

[Ash]

Mom. Lol. Hello? Haha.

[Alaina]

What? Yeah. Now, a few weeks later, on June 20, Elizabeth and Frank were alone, just having a little convo. And Elizabeth made Frank promise her that he wouldn't marry Olga and that he would never leave her.

[Ash]

What are you doing, Frank?

[Alaina]

He's agreeing. He said, I promise.

[Ash]

Frank.

[Alaina]

Frankie. Frank, Frankie. This is not the life you want, Frank.

[Ash]

My goodness, Frank, you're.

[Alaina]

You're meant to be a tank. You're not meant to be living with your mom and carrying on a strange relationship.

[Ash]

No.

[Alaina]

So he says. He promises. But the next day, unbeknownst to Elizabeth, Frank and Olga got married at the county courthouse.

[Ash]

Damn.

[Alaina]

According to journalist Joan Renner, Elizabeth went apoplectic. Apoplectic when she found out that Frank had secretly married Olga.

[Ash]

Oh, my goodness.

[Alaina]

In fact, on the night of their wedding.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Alaina]

The night of their wedding, where they're supposed to be having a good old time, honey.

[Ash]

Consummating.

[Alaina]

Consummating. Elizabeth tracked them down at a motel in the middle of the night and banged on the door until 1:30 in the morning. When Pussoir of the century Frank agreed to go home with his mommy rather than let the scene go on any further.

[Ash]

Never touch that man again.

[Alaina]

Never touch that man.

[Ash]

Get the fuck. That is damaged goods right there.

[Alaina]

If your mother in law shows up at your place of consummation on the night of your marriage and starts banging on the door and your husband is like, I have to go home with her.

[Ash]

I have to go home with mother.

[Alaina]

You annul the. Out of that marriage.

[Ash]

Yeah, you get them.

[Alaina]

In fact, you get in that, you say, okay, I understand. And then you drive to the courthouse and you say, don't fucking file people.

[Ash]

Don't fulfill that shit.

[Alaina]

We were kidding.

[Ash]

Yeah, just kidding. That was a big old joke.

[Alaina]

Ew.

[Ash]

What the fuck?

[Alaina]

Yeah. So hoping to make the transition easier on mother.

[Ash]

Ew.

[Alaina]

Frank continued living with her until the end of June.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Alaina]

But starting on July 1, he and Olga move to a new apartment, keeping the address a secret from Elizabeth. Because she's so fucking diabolical, they can't even know where she lives.

[Ash]

And also, he can't even.

[Alaina]

She can't even know where they live. Excuse me.

[Ash]

I'd be calling the police absolutely the first time that this person said to me, you're. I'll kill you first. Gone. I don't care who you are.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Restraining.

[Ash]

You're not saying it.

[Alaina]

The thing that sucks, though, is especially back then, but police would have been like, what the fuck are we going to do? Yeah, she's talking shit.

[Ash]

Especially. Yeah.

[Alaina]

So they kept the address a secret from her. And it's unclear how she found out, but she did. And it didn't take her more than a few days to figure out where Olga and Frank were living.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Alaina]

Olga's father, Elias, told a reporter she wrote to us, meaning Olga, that immediately after they were married, her husband's mother would come to their apartment and revile her every time her husband was at work.

[Ash]

What the fuck?

[Alaina]

And Elizabeth wasn't just abusive to Olga in the privacy of the apartment. She also had gone out of her way to spread slanderous lies and rumors about Olga all around town. Just days after Frank and Olga moved in together, Elizabeth told Barbara Reed, an acquaintance of Frank's that Olga had become pregnant by another man and that she was trying to frame Frank to extort money from him.

[Ash]

Wow. She's disgusting.

[Alaina]

She's a.

[Ash]

She's like a monster.

[Alaina]

She's a. Yeah, literally monster in law. That's what that movie truly is. So according to Olga's family, and I have no problem calling her a. So don't get mad at me, anybody. According to Olga's family, the escalation of Elizabeth's possessive and abusive behavior just continued to worsen. They said Olga, quote, told us she was afraid of her mother in law and complained of, quote, violence and threats she underwent at the hands of her mother in law.

[Ash]

That's wild.

[Alaina]

Yeah. So while most of the people around Olga seemed to see Elizabeth as an obnoxiously overbearing, incredibly possessive mother in law.

[Ash]

That's to put it lightly.

[Alaina]

To put it lightly, Exactly. It turned out that Olga was right to actually be afraid of her. When her attempts to intimidate Olga were unsuccessful at breaking up the marriage, Elizabeth went to a friend, Barbara Reed, and offered her fifteen hundred dollars to, quote, throw acid in the face of a girl who was framing her son and then toss her over a cliff.

[Ash]

Oh, she's off the deep end.

[Alaina]

So in case that wasn't clear, she went to a woman in town and said, hey, throw acid on my daughter in law's face and then murder her.

[Ash]

My pregnant daughter in law.

[Alaina]

Pregnant daughter in law. And I'll give you 1500 dol. Hundred dollars.

[Ash]

Elizabeth is a that.

[Alaina]

And that's to put it nicely.

[Ash]

Yeah, that's really being nice.

[Alaina]

According to Reid, Elizabeth told her Olga had been threatening her and quote, chasing around her son and she just didn't want anything to happen to Frank's career.

[Ash]

Oh my God, get over it.

[Alaina]

So, not wanting to irritate Elizabeth any further, Barbara was like, I'll think about it. I'll get back to you. Barbara, Barbara, Barbara, Barbara.

[Ash]

You called the authorities. Barbara.

[Alaina]

Barbara. Check out the company you keep.

[Ash]

Yeah, like, Barbara, take it easy.

[Alaina]

So here's the thing. Barbara was like, I. I think I keep some rough company. She was like, I'm not sure what to do about this, but I think I should call Frank and let him know that this is happening. Probably 911 would have been your best bet, but. But, you know, I don't even know if it exists.

[Ash]

I guess her husband should know as well. Yeah.

[Alaina]

So she said, I think your mother's gone crazy. You had better get that girl out of town before something serious happens to her.

[Ash]

And Frank was like, nah. Frank was like, not Mother.

[Alaina]

I'm not gonna do that. So whether or not Frank took the story seriously is. They say it's unknown, but I think it's pretty clear that he didn't take it seriously. But just two weeks after he moved into the apartment with Olga, they separated and he was living back with his mom.

[Ash]

What?

[Alaina]

Yeah. So from that point forward, Frank would visit his pregnant wife from time to time, sometimes promising that they could work things out. But around 9pm, he would always go home to mommy.

[Ash]

Wow. That's exactly what it is. He would always go home to mommy.

[Alaina]

Disgusting.

[Ash]

That truly is.

[Alaina]

If Nicholas would hear.

[Ash]

Nicholas is chomping at the bit right

[Alaina]

now to his piece, would have a fit over this.

[Ash]

He'd be like, I can't even say

[Alaina]

what Nicholas would say.

[Ash]

No, I can't either.

[Alaina]

So at the time, it seemed like Elizabeth had gotten her way. Frank's relationship with Olga was on the rocks. Her son was back living under her roof. But that wasn't good enough for her. She didn't just want Frank back at home. She wanted to be 100% sure that this marriage would end and there would be no further threats to her preferred living situation.

[Ash]

Elizabeth.

[Alaina]

Gosh, this next part will rock you.

[Ash]

This is.

[Alaina]

This is top tier cuckoo nuts, bananas.

[Ash]

Oh, man.

[Alaina]

So one day in early August, Elizabeth called the local Salvation army and she asked if they could send somebody to her house to help with work, which was like a thing that happened back then. She would have gone there herself to choose somebody, but she had actually been banned from the Salvation army for causing too many problems.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Alaina]

So the phone had to suffice in this instance. Wow. A short time later, Ralph Winterstein, a down on his luck former convict, arrived at Elizabeth's door. Assuming he was there to, like, wash windows or something.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

But once he was inside, Elizabeth said, hey, I will give you a hundred bucks if you will just help me out with this simple scheme I've concocted. You pose as my son Frank. I pose as my son Frank's wife, Olga. We're gonna go to a judge, explain that our recent marriage was a mistake and that we want an annulment. What do you think?

[Ash]

What the actual fuck?

[Alaina]

She hired somebody from the Salvation army to pose as her son, she poses as her son's wife and goes to the courthouse and asks for a fucking annulment.

[Ash]

This is like a cuckoo net, man. I can't. I cannot. I. I have no words.

[Alaina]

Also, it must be noted, like I just told you, Elizabeth was So intense and violent and, like, just nuts that she was banned from the Salvation Army.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So I just want you guys to think about, like, this poor man. He basically was just like, yeah, I don't want her to, like, throw acid on my face or kill me. So I guess I'll do this for $100.

[Ash]

What the.

[Alaina]

Yeah. So he agrees to the plan. And on the morning of August 7th, Elizabeth and Ralph, posing as Olga and Frank Duncan, appeared in the office of attorney Hal Hammons, who had no other choice but to be an attorney. Hal Hammonds is such a good.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So they explained that they had impulsively married in June, but within just a few weeks, they realized their mistake and they really, really wanted this all annulled.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Alaina]

In fact, quote, unquote, Frank, AKA Ralph, even told Hammonds that they hadn't consummated the relationship. And they weren't even l together.

[Ash]

Oh, my God. Because, you know, she was like, I need to believe that they have not fucked.

[Alaina]

Meanwhile, Olga's literally pregnant with Frank's child.

[Ash]

But, you know, she's like, I need to believe that this is real.

[Alaina]

100%. Wow. So since neither was contesting to the annulment and the entire thing was mutual, Hammond saw no reason to object, and he wrote up the petition.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Alaina]

The next day, Elizabeth and Ralph, as Olga and Frank, appeared at the Superior Court before Judge Perry Churchill, who had no reason either to question their story. And he granted the annulment.

[Ash]

Because who would ever be like, I wonder if these people are posing.

[Alaina]

I wonder if that is his mother and a random man that she hired.

[Ash]

Yeah, I wonder.

[Alaina]

So, unfortunately for Ralph, Elizabeth actually didn't have the hundred dollars to spare right then and there. But she said that she'd pay him in the coming days.

[Ash]

Oh, I'm sure.

[Alaina]

Despite those assurances, Ralph was never compensated.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Alaina]

So she just got him to do this for her.

[Ash]

Damn.

[Alaina]

A few weeks later, in early September, Frank learned about the annulment. And it's unclear if he ever told Olga about it. Again, for the people in the back, Frank learned about the annulment. He learned that his mother had hired somebody to pretend that they were him. And she pretended to be his wife and got a fucking annulment. And he didn't tell his wife. His pregnant wife.

[Ash]

I am just like Frank. Frank. What the.

[Alaina]

Frank.

[Ash]

He's the most curious specimen I've ever come across.

[Alaina]

All we can think is that he was raised by Elizabeth.

[Ash]

So. So there's that.

[Alaina]

There's that, but holy. Yeah. So instead, he just Kept trying to assure Olga that things would get better once the baby arrived.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure that I'd be

[Alaina]

like, I don't think so. There's a large evidence, a large amount of evidence to the contrary. But Olga was holding out hope because also she's pregnant. She's in a really fucking vulnerable state.

[Ash]

Of course.

[Alaina]

Olga's father said the letters came every week and they gradually became more cheerful, although she was still fearful of her husband's mother. So Olga's fear, it turned out, was very, very well placed. Although she and Frank no longer lived together, Elizabeth suspected correctly, it turned out that they were continuing to carry on their relationship in private, and she was now determined to find proof. One afternoon in late August, while Olga was at work, Elizabeth turned up at Olga's apartment building. And according to the landlady, she kicked up a terrible fuss about needing to check the apartment for Frank's clothes. What the fuck, Barnett? The landlord said, she tricked me into letting her into the apartment. The minute she was inside, she ran to a closet, threw open a door and looked inside. She was almost screaming and said, there, you see? His clothes aren't there. They're not married.

[Ash]

I can't get over how much this lady wants to marry her son.

[Alaina]

I can't get over this crazy. So as far as Barnett could tell, Elizabeth was trying to convince her, or maybe herself, that Olga was not the kind of person she should be renting to. She said she wanted me to kick Olga out of the apartment. Said her son wasn't going to be responsible for Olga's debts.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Alaina]

It's like, what about his child's deaths?

[Ash]

Yeah, and his child, period. You and all the marriage, man. So.

[Alaina]

Exactly.

[Ash]

Don't worry about it.

[Alaina]

Right? So the landlady dismissed Elizabeth's comments. She was just like, okay, clearly you're an overprotective human. But she was caught off guard when just before leaving, Elizabeth told her she's not gonna have him. I'll kill her if it's the last thing I do.

[Ash]

Does anyone want to go to the authorities? This. This bitch is walking around literally being like, hi, my name's Elizabeth. I'm literally going to murder my daughter in law.

[Alaina]

She's basically walking around with a sign

[Ash]

that says, and people are like, wow, that's crazy. I'm sorry. I hear someone say, I'm going to kill this person.

[Alaina]

Yeah, I'm telling someone, you got to tell someone. Like, see something, say something, hear something, tell someone.

[Ash]

When this lady is walking around freely saying to anybody, don't worry about it, everyone. I'm going to kill this bitch first. Listen to her. Yeah, do something.

[Alaina]

What is wrong with everyone? She clearly has a reputation around town as like a not well woman.

[Ash]

Yeah, she's not easy to get along with.

[Alaina]

Clearly she's going to random friends being like, will you throw acid in her face and throw her off a cliff? I'm banned from the Salvation army, by the way. Yeah. Getting banned from the Salvation army is crazy.

[Ash]

And it's like people aren't walking around. Like mother in laws are not walking around saying to people, I'm gonna kill my daughter in law. Hopefully not like out loud sitting there being like, yeah, just so you know, like I'm gonna get rid of her. So it's not a big deal. They're not just freely saying this.

[Alaina]

No, I've never run into that.

[Ash]

If someone's outwardly saying that they have

[Alaina]

lost a screw is loose. Yeah.

[Ash]

And you should call someone 100 like, I'm shocked. 1 hundo P so many people let this go.

[Alaina]

It's crazy. It's, it's one of those cases where you have to scream about that because it's just like mind blowing. It really is. So over the course of September and October, Olga just continued to endure daily harassments and threats from Elizabeth. But in her letters home to her parents, she did her best to hide her frustration and her fear. And Olga's father later wondered if she was doing her best not to upset or worry her mother because her mother had a bad heart.

[Ash]

Oh, that breaks my heart.

[Alaina]

It really does. In mid November, though, the letter stopped altogether. According to Olga's father, her last letter was sent from Santa Barbara and dated November 12, 1958. A week later, on November 19, Frank went to the police and reported his wife missing. It was Frank who filed the report, but it was actually two of Olga's co workers from the hospital who expressed concern in the first place about Olga being missing. So it's like, were you just gonna

[Ash]

wait around until you're gonna do here?

[Alaina]

Like, did you not think she was gonna be missed? So her friends had her and co workers had last seen her two days earlier around 11pm when they left her apartment. And she hadn't shown up for work the previous two days, which was very unlike her. At first. Investigators thought it might be like a runaway wife situation because Frank had mentioned to them that there was a lot of tension in the marriage and that he actually wasn't living with her for a while. So under the circumstances, it did seem plausible that Maybe she simply packed up and left just to get away from everything. But there was a lot more cause for concern when they started following up on the report. Patrol officer Peter o', Brien, who took the missing persons report, called Olga's family in Canada to find out whether they had heard from her. And he was informed that they hadn't received word from her in about a week, which was very unusual. And she had no plans to visit them. In fact, they actually had plans to come visit her soon. In the last letter that they received from Olga, she was super excited about her mom's plans to come visit when the baby was born in early January. Given that it didn't really make sense that at nearly eight months pregnant, she would just take off unexpectedly to Canada.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So according to the report, Frank told the officer that Olga, quote, probably took off to teach him a lesson. I'm like, maybe you should mention the fact that you have a homicidal mother.

[Ash]

Yeah, perhaps that should be mentioned.

[Alaina]

Like, if I have a homicidal mother, I'm definitely gonna mention that. They'd been arguing a lot over the recent weeks, he said, mostly about his not living at the apartment and the abuse from his mother. But when o' Brien followed up with Olga's co workers and her landlady, everybody appeared to agree that Olga just wasn't the kind of lady who was just gonna run away without telling anybody.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

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[Alaina]

After you yell drop it. So after looking over the report, detectives paid a visit to the landlady, Dorothy Barnett. And she was more than eager to help find Olga. She really liked her. Dorothy had last seen Olga the day she went missing, just after Olga had returned home from work. They exchanged some pleasantries and Olga complimented Dorothy's garden before she went upstairs to her apartment. She said the last she heard of Olga was when her two co workers who were hanging out with her that night left around 11pm now, things seem to be pointing in a different direction, but investigators floated the idea that she possibly could have harmed herself or maybe ran off. And Dorothy was like, no, absolutely not. She said Olga might have been unhappy about some things, but she would never do anything to hurt her behavior.

[Ash]

Baby. Yeah.

[Alaina]

Besides, she also insisted Olga simply wasn't the kind of person who would deliberately hurt herself or somebody else. She said she's way too reasonable like and level headed. Sounds like to do that.

[Ash]

I mean, look what she endured.

[Alaina]

Yeah, exactly. She clearly can keep a level head.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So even tempered or not, the evidence still didn't exactly support the increasingly unlikely theory that Olga had run off. It was Dorothy Barnett who discovered the first sign that something was amiss. Actually, the morning after Olga's visit with her friends, Dorothy said she heard what sounded like a strange thumping sound coming from Olga's apartment. And when she went upstairs to investigate, she found that Olga's sliding glass door was wide open and the heavy droops were blowing in the breeze. So that was really weird at first. She was like, maybe she just left the door open when she went to work. But while she was there, the two nurses who had been over the night before showed up at the apartment looking for Olga. Oh, they explained she hadn't shown up for work that morning and they were worried something happened to her. So now also worried that something could be wrong with the baby or that Olga might be having some sort of other emergency. All three of them, like, went into the apartment together to look for Olga, but there was nobody there. Inside. Things were still concerning. There were several lights on. There was dirty dishes from the night before in the sink. There were baby clothes folded and placed in little piles on the couch. Like it didn't look like somebody intended to leave.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

When they looked in the bedroom too, one of the ladies noticed that the pink robe Olga had been wearing the night before was nowhere to be found. Oh, so they're like, is she still wearing that? And most concerning was her purse still sitting on the dresser with its contents undisturbed? Yeah. So it appeared to all of them that Olga had said goodnight to her friends the previous evening, started folding some baby clothes in the room and then disappeared without a trace.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Alaina]

When pressed by detectives, Dorothy couldn't think of anything that she had seen or heard the previous evening that seemed super out of the ordinary. But there was the matter of the mother in law. Frank alluded to problems in their marriage to the authorities, but Dorothy was far more willing to elaborate.

[Ash]

Yeah, I bet.

[Alaina]

She explained that ever since she met Frank, Olga had been locked in an aggressively adversarial relationship with Frank's mother. And it was all one sided. She said, I don't know all the specifics, but this woman has been harassing Olga on a regular basis. And she relayed the story about how Elizabeth had shown up at the apartment recently and kind of tricked her to get in there looking for Frank's clothing. She was like, this lady's, she's cuckoo. Yeah, she's tapped. So the detectives thanked Dorothy for the information and they headed out the door. But before they made it out, she remembered one other thing from the night that Olga went missing. She said it wasn't long after her friends had left. She was trying to get some sleep and she heard the sounds of heavy footsteps on the stairs leading up to Olga's apartment. At the time, she thought that it was the couple who lived across from Olga, the Williamsons, because they went out to late movies all the time, which, like, side note, that's just really cute for them. But the next morning when she ran into Mrs. Williamson, she was like, oh, like, did you come home late last night? I thought I heard you. And Ms. Williamson said that she and her husband had been home all night.

[Ash]

Oh.

[Alaina]

So the next day, detectives paid a visit to Frank to inquire about his relationship with his wife a little more in detail. He was kind of, he was pretty much upfront with the investigators. He gave all the details. He explained that on the night she went missing, he was at home watching television with mother.

[Ash]

With mother.

[Alaina]

And then they went to bed around 11pm he said that he had no idea where Olga could be. But he did say a few weeks ago she threatened to make trouble for me if I didn't move back in with her.

[Ash]

Guys, why are we letting this, this lady just Run like that. Like, why are we letting this happen?

[Alaina]

Well, and it's like you're saying he's making it seem like Olga's like gonna cause trouble. I'm like, she just wants to live with her husband and the father of her child.

[Ash]

She's gonna make trouble for me if I don't move. What?

[Alaina]

I'm like, I don't think she was threatening, literally married. She probably was just like, hey, we're gonna get divorced if it continues like this. Even though neither I don't know that our fucking marriage has been annulled.

[Ash]

Hey, can you break up with your mom? Yeah. That's literally what she was asking. Can you please break things off with your mother?

[Alaina]

I hope none of you have a relationship like this with your mother in laws. Do you ever get those TikTok videos where people, like, detail how their relationships are mother in laws. If this is something, if this is even remotely similar to a situation you're going through, our heart goes out to you. Like, Like, I can't imagine.

[Ash]

I literally, I cannot fathom.

[Alaina]

This is kind of shenanigans level.

[Ash]

Like, I can't imagine a mother in law who thinks that they somehow have like authority over who their grown ass son dates.

[Alaina]

It literally turns my stomach because. Why? Why do you feel that way?

[Ash]

That's the thing. Why?

[Alaina]

If I'm a mother in law, someday I'm gonna be the coolest mother in law.

[Ash]

Like, damn. Seriously? Damn.

[Alaina]

But yeah. So Frank had probably been hoping to avoid the subject of his mother, his monster mama. But his statement about Olga's threat to make trouble for him inevitably led to more questions about why he didn't live with his wife.

[Ash]

Yeah, they're like, wait a minute.

[Alaina]

They were like, hey, that's kind of weird.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So he explained that his mother had a profound fear of losing him and of being alone, and that he'd been giving her time to adjust to him moving out of the house.

[Ash]

My God.

[Alaina]

But just like you're not giving her time to adjust to being out of the house while still living at the house.

[Ash]

No.

[Alaina]

His main concern, he said, though, was that his mother might try to hurt herself again like she had the previous year if he abruptly left, he said. His wife, on the other hand, was a strong woman. And he knew she knew that he loved her. So he wasn't worried that she would do anything irrational.

[Ash]

Interesting. Interesting.

[Alaina]

So when it came to the matter of Elizabeth's relationship with Olga, Frank quickly rejected the stories that investigators had heard. He said, that's just gossip. Mother is Mad at me. And anything you heard from Olga's friends or from her landlady is an exaggeration. He actually assured him that his mother had only met Olga one time, so it would have been almost impossible for her to have developed any negative feelings based on that one occasion. What? Please remember that the entire reason Frank and Olga even know each other is because Olga was taking care of Elizabeth while she was in a coma.

[Ash]

Yeah, like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Alaina]

So they definitely met on more than one occasion. What? Yeah, it was very fucking strange.

[Ash]

That's wild.

[Alaina]

Yeah. So Frank's narrative obviously didn't seem to match what detectives had already learned about the rift between Elizabeth and Olga, so it was inevitable that they were ready to speak to Elizabeth herself. The next day, Frank arrived at the station with his monster mama, who refused to go inside unless she was allowed to speak with Sergeant Meyers, who was one of the officers that Frank knew from his work in criminal court. The lead detective on the case, Clarence Henderson, explained that that's actually not how criminal investigations work. But Frank cut him off and was like, listen, we actually came here to talk about something completely unrelated. We're not even here to talk about Olga.

[Ash]

Okay?

[Alaina]

Clarence was like, what?

[Ash]

He's like, so you don't say.

[Alaina]

This is where things get racist as. Oh, just so you know.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Alaina]

Because not only is Elizabeth a homicidal maniac, she's also racist in nature.

[Ash]

Oh, she's a literal monster.

[Alaina]

She's horrible.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

According to Frank, the week before Olga went missing, she received a threat from Esperanza Esquivel, the manager of the Tropical Cafe, which was a restaurant that Elizabeth and her friend Emma visited regularly.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Alaina]

Fraud and extortion weren't his regular beat, but Henderson figured there might be some overlap between Frank's missing wife. So he was like, okay, I'll sit down with you guys and listen to this story. Elizabeth claimed that after Frank had defended Esquivel's husband in a recent case, the woman demanded that Elizabeth help return the 500 she paid in legal fees. Elizabeth told the detective, she's got two Mexicans going to kill me and Frankie if I don't give back the 500 that she paid Frankie to defend her

[Ash]

husband so much about that. One of the things being Frankie.

[Alaina]

Frankie is. Yes.

[Ash]

Turned to my stomach.

[Alaina]

So upsetting. And also, why would she want the money back?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

If he won the case for her son, like, I think that would be payment enough.

[Ash]

That. Yeah, that doesn't really make sense. Yeah.

[Alaina]

And also just saying, like, two Mexicans. I'm like, the way you say that is, like, very brutal.

[Ash]

Yeah. You know?

[Alaina]

So at the time, the Esquivels were known to the police as petty criminals. And their restaurant, the Tropical Cafe, was known as a hangout for other petty criminals. It wasn't like it wasn't the best place. So Elizabeth's claims of extortion didn't seem that far fetched. And she also claimed she had a witness to at least one of the attempted extortions. She said her friend Emma had been with her when Esperanza accosted her on the sidewalk in front of the Tropical Cafe. According to Elizabeth, Esperanza and another man grabbed her and threatened to kill her if she didn't get the money for them. Jesus. So she said that she pawned some jewelry to give them at least some of the money.

[Ash]

She's in a lot of.

[Alaina]

She's in a lot of. She's up to her ears and.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So given what he knew about the es, Elizabeth's story sounded somewhat plausible to Henderson. But something about the entire thing just felt disingenuous. At the same time, she was very performative. She was basically hysterical, which was usually a pretty good indication that somebody was lying. But Frank had already explained that his mother was high strung, and she kind of tended toward the dramatics. So it also seemed on brand for her at the same time. But his hesitancy, the detective's hesitancy had more to do with the facts and the timeline more than anything else. According to Elizabeth, this all happened on November 13, which was a week before Olga went missing. But she only told her son about it the previous day after detectives interviewed Frank about his missing wife. Interesting. And on top of that, like I said, Marciano Esquivel could have gone to jail for multiple years, but thanks to Frank, his sentence was cut in half. Yeah, like, so he didn't necessarily win the case, but he got him much less time in prison. And under normal circumstances, a legal defense on par with Frank actually would have cost three times what Frank charged the couple.

[Ash]

So he was doing them a solid.

[Alaina]

Yeah. So all things considered, like I said, Esperanza and her husband would have been grateful, or should have been, not only for the strong defense, but also for the reduced rate. But here was Elizabeth saying that not only were they ungrateful, they were actually demanding a refund.

[Ash]

Doubt it.

[Alaina]

And Henderson wondered, why would they approach Elizabeth about the money instead of her son, who presumably actually had the resources to pay them? Yeah, like that doesn't make any sense. Now According to Elizabeth, the criminals had warned her not to tell anybody about the extortion, especially not Frank. So she kept it to herself, and she scraped together some money, like she said. She pawned some jewelry. Then she asked Frank for a check to buy a typewriter, which she actually used to pay the rest of the money to esperanza, except for $50, which she said she kept for herself. Little tip, Little tip. When Frank asked where the typewriter was, she broke down and she told him about the extortion, adding that she believed they might come back and actually ask for more money. Maybe as much as $6,000.

[Ash]

Whoa.

[Alaina]

So a few days later, the missing persons case and the extortion case were actually combined based on the belief that they were connected and whoever was behind the extortion was also responsible for Olga going missing. But the deeper they dug into the case, the more they found themselves being led back to Elizabeth Duncan. Monster in law of the century. Or everybody that they spoke to about Olga, told them about the harassment, how afraid Olga was of her mother in law. And every lead on the extortion case turned out to be a dead end, despite Elizabeth insisting that she was the one being targeted.

[Ash]

All roads are leading one way, yes.

[Alaina]

So finally, about a week later, Frank returns some mug shots to the police that they had left at the apartment for Elizabeth to look over. Among the group in the photo array, she identified two young men, Louis Moya and Gus Baldonado, both petty criminals, as the men who had been threatening her. The next day, Henderson and his partner picked up Luis Moya at the Blue Onion, which was a restaurant where he was working at the time. And they brought him into the station. He admitted, yes, he knew Esperanza Esquivel, and occasionally he helped out around the Tropical Cafe. But he said he wasn't blackmailing anything or he wasn't blackmailing anybody, and he didn't know anything about Elizabeth Duncan. But when the subject turned to Olga, Lewis became even more insistent that he had nothing to do with her disappearance. And he said, I'll even stand up in a line like, I have nothing to do with this. Elizabeth, like I just said, had already identified him from his mug shot a few days earlier. And she swore up and down that she would recognize the men who attacked her anywhere. But when she was standing on the other side of the two way glass, she claimed she didn't recognize anybody in the lineup.

[Ash]

Interesting.

[Alaina]

Even though he was literally right there and she had already identified you had

[Ash]

already picked him out.

[Alaina]

Frank, on the other hand, who he didn't even have the experience that Elizabeth did. But he saw the mugshot. He said he immediately recognized Moya from the photograph. And he was like, mother, why don't you recognize this man? It was only when he threatened to move out that she agreed to take another look at Moya.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Alaina]

And she begrudgingly told the detectives, yeah, he was the one who's blacked out.

[Ash]

This relationship is so gross.

[Alaina]

It's wild.

[Ash]

It really is.

[Alaina]

It's wild. So to everybody's surprise, even after she identified Luis Moya as one of the men extorting her, she refused to sign a formal complaint. In fact, it actually occurred to the detectives that throughout the entire investigation, during which Elizabeth had repeatedly expressed fear for her and her son's life lives, she seemed to go out of her way to not cooperate with them.

[Ash]

Interesting.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Now, with the suspect literally standing in front of her, she did not seem even remotely interested in getting justice. And if she was unwilling to sign a complaint against him, there was nothing detectives could do. So they set the case aside for that moment and continued working on Olga's disappearance. And pretty soon, they were going to make a crack in this case.

[Ash]

I have a feeling I know where this is going. Potentially.

[Alaina]

You might not, but maybe you do. I don't know. I believe in you.

[Ash]

This is terrifying.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Elizabeth is a terrifying woman.

[Alaina]

She's horrible.

[Ash]

And Frank is a poussoir.

[Alaina]

Frank is the poussoir of the century. Of the century.

[Ash]

Yeah. Truly, like, hello of the universe.

[Alaina]

Actually, when it comes to Frank, like goodbye.

[Ash]

Yeah. Tulu.

[Alaina]

That was weird. Did you guys just hear that?

[Ash]

That was crazy.

[Alaina]

Jinx. You want me a Coke?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Alaina]

Do you have a fun fact?

[Ash]

Oh, I do have a fun fact.

[Alaina]

Tell me your fun fact, and we'll be back for part two right after this.

[Ash]

Let me see. Hold on. Where's my fun fact? You're taller in the morning than you are at night.

[Alaina]

What?

[Ash]

You're about 1cm taller. Because at night, when you're laying down, your spine stretches and decompresses, but throughout the day, the soft cartilage between the bones gets squashed and compress a little. Really?

[Alaina]

Cool. Yeah.

[Ash]

So you are taller in the morning

[Alaina]

than you are at night?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Why do you shrink when you get old?

[Ash]

I think hunching over, right? Yeah.

[Alaina]

Is that it? Just that you're hunched over?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Oh, interesting.

[Ash]

You're just crunching and hunching as you get older.

[Alaina]

Crunching and hunching. I'm crunching and hunching right now.

[Ash]

Yeah, I know. I need to I need to get that that form bra that Taylor Swift wears for posture.

[Alaina]

Oh yeah, I always get that out on tick tock.

[Ash]

I know I need to right now.

[Alaina]

I'll do that for sure. But right now I'm just gonna eat more pickle pretzels.

[Ash]

I think that'll help.

[Alaina]

We hope you keep listening and we

[Ash]

hope you keep it weird.

[Alaina]

But not so weird that you are this kind of mother in law. No, because that is crazy on top of your head.

[Ash]

That is crazy on top of your head. Sam.

[Alaina]

Sa. Why have I asked my electrician I

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[Alaina]

I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end.

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[Alaina]

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