The Perron Family Haunting

Summary

Morbid Podcast: The Perron Family Haunting

Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Episode Date: April 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ash and Alaina take listeners through the chilling and infamous case of the Perron Family Haunting—the real-life inspiration behind The Conjuring movie. With their trademark blend of detailed research and playful banter, the co-hosts unpack the history of the Perron family, the haunting events they endured, and the tangled legacy of stories, media attention, and skepticism that followed. Listeners are treated to a layered exploration of what made this haunting so unnerving, the cultural echoes it set off, and the personal consequences for those who lived (and survived) it.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction & Context

[02:51–09:00]

• After friendly banter and life updates, Ash introduces the haunting as the inspiration behind The Conjuring films:

  "We’re going to be talking about the Perron Family Haunting today, which apparently, apparently, apparently was the inspiration for the Conjuring movies. Oh, like the first one, at least." – Ash [08:52]

• The story begins with Roger and Carolyn Perron's marriage in 1957 and the expanding family of five daughters.

---

2. The Perron Family's Early Life

[09:03–11:28]

• Quick rundown of the family dynamic:
  • Roger: Long-haul trucker, emotionally distant, described as “less encouraging” and “not that emotionally available.”
  • Carolyn: “A good mama,” thoughtful, treated each daughter as an individual.
  • Andrea (eldest daughter) becomes the central chronicler.
• The family moves to Willimantic, CT, and then to Cumberland, RI, seeking roots and stability.

Quote:

"She took great pleasure in their company. It’s just like six besties living in a house. Hell, yeah." – Ash [11:09]

---

3. Shifting Fortunes: Tragedy and Unrest in Cumberland

[13:03–18:49]

• The death of their puppy Bathsheba in an accident marks the start of a chain of traumatic events:
  • Neighborhood becomes increasingly unsafe: rise in juvenile crime, thefts, assaults, even a shocking attempted assault at the local school.
  • The Perrons experience further loss: death of their cat and a home break-in.
• The accumulation drives Carolyn to urge Roger for a move:

  “She basically said, in no uncertain terms… she was straight up not having a good time in Cumberland, Rhode Island.” – Ash [18:33]

Memorable Moment:

"She said, it's not for us out here in these streets. And I would like to sell this house and move into the country." – Ash [18:40]

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4. Finding and Moving Into the Harrisville Farmhouse

[27:27–33:36]

• Carolyn finds an irresistible listing for a colonial farmhouse in rural Harrisville—soon revealed to be the infamous “Conjuring House.”
• Despite Roger's concerns, Carolyn places a deposit before consulting him fully.
• The family tours and ultimately moves into the house in January 1971, aided by friends, with Roger reluctantly won over by the property’s charm.

Quote:

“He was like, I also don’t think a few bad experiences are sufficient enough reason to leave. He’s like, lift your crime rate, though. I was like, the home invasion is the crime is the crime of it all upsetting to you, Roger.” – Ash [20:37]

Notable Moment:

Mr. Kenyon, the groundskeeper, leaves them with an ominous warning:

"Leave the lights on at night. Better to light a candle than curse the darkness." – Mr. Kenyon [34:17]

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5. The Haunting Begins: Unexplainable Phenomena

[36:05–47:46]

• The family experiences classic “haunted house” phenomena: abundant, uncanny noises, frequent temperature fluctuations, feelings of being watched.
• The girls and Carolyn begin to share stories of their experiences:
  • Apparitions (such as the "smoky" figure emerging from the cellar).
  • Unpleasant odors, physical sensations, and even attacks (Cynthia’s encounter results in exhaustion; Carolyn nearly struck by a scythe thrown from the hayloft).
  • Carolyn is physically attacked by a wire hanger in full view of her neighbor and five daughters.

Quote:

“They all saw this—see her being whacked across the face, head, and neck with a wire coat hanger, held in the air just, like, by some unseen force.” – Ash [47:29]

Memorable Moment:

Neighbor's repeated warning to keep the lights on:

"The Kenyons always kept the lights on overnight. All the lights every night." – Mrs. Pettigrew [48:25]

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6. Isolation, Disbelief, and Escalation

[51:06–62:13]

• Roger remains skeptical and emotionally distant, refusing to believe the women’s stories, which increases Carolyn’s stress and sense of isolation.

• The haunting intensifies:

  • Figures, cold spots, beds shaking, poltergeist activity.
  • The infamous “twisted, grotesque” woman apparition appears to Carolyn at night, paralyzing her with fear.
  • Apparition is described as:

    “Her neck seemed to have been snapped, causing her head to tilt at an unnatural angle… she stared, gray-eyed and unblinking at Carolyn.” – Ash [54:26]

• Andrea and the girls share more experiences, including the entity’s “friendliness” toward one child, echoing the archetype of sinister child hauntings.

Quote:

"'Mom, she loves me, Mom. She wants to be friends with her.'" – Quoting Cindy, the daughter [57:58]

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7. The Legend of Bathsheba and Seeking Help

[62:13–66:38]

• Carolyn learns from a local, Fran, about the property’s history:
  • Former owner Bathsheba Sherman was widely believed to be a witch who allegedly murdered a child.
• Carolyn connects this lore to their experiences.
• The family eventually reaches out to Ed and Lorraine Warren, who visit, confirm an “evil presence,” and initiate a highly publicized investigation.

Memorable Moment:

“Ed and Lorraine definitely would do their best to help the family, but they also would create a public spectacle that would benefit them more than the parents.” – Ash [65:28]

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8. The Dramatic Seance and Aftermath

[66:38–70:07]

• The Warrens conduct a “cleansing”/exorcism-ritual, bringing with them an entourage of ghost hunters, shaman, and clergy.
• During the ritual, Carolyn acts possessed, uttering guttural noises.
  • Roger, deeply skeptical and angry, physically confronts Ed Warren by punching him.
• The chaos ends with Roger expelling everyone from the house.
• Andrea, as an adult, reflects that her father’s denial might have sprung from guilt over having put his family in danger.

Quote:

“Do you realize you’re being played by a pair of two-bit charlatans?” – Roger to Carolyn [69:21]

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9. Resolution and Legacy

[70:30–74:10]

• The haunting slowly abates in intensity after the seance but never fully resolves; the family lives in the house until 1980.
• Carolyn and Roger eventually divorce but try to maintain positive relationships with their daughters.
• Later homeowners have experienced unwanted attention from “Conjuring” fans and media, but no reported supernatural activity.
• Andrea, now grown, sees Bathsheba’s legend as exaggerated and the real history as more ambiguous.

Quotes:

“The release of the film based loosely on her family's experiences prompted a significant interest too, in the legend of Bathsheba Sherman, who Andrea and local historians now believe was unfairly maligned.” – Ash [71:39]
“I'm team Carolyn.” – Elena [69:47]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "Leave the lights on at night. Better to light a candle than curse the darkness." – Mr. Kenyon [34:17]
• "Whatever had held it previously was gone. And Carolyn was just sitting there in tears, just having been hit with a wire hanger." – Ash [47:46]
• "She wants to be friends with her." – Cindy, as quoted by Ash [57:58]
• "Do you realize you’re being played by a pair of two-bit charlatans?" – Roger [69:21]
• "The Kenyons always kept the lights on overnight. All the lights every night." – Mrs. Pettigrew [48:25]
• "I'm team Carolyn." – Elena [69:47]

---

Memorable & Humorous Moments

• Aura farming/aura maxing tangent: Hilarious commentary on Gen Z lingo about “aura farming” and “maxing” [19:10–20:10].
• Carolyn’s impulsive house deposit:

  "Carolyn said 1-800-listing agent, and she scheduled a showing for the following day." – Ash [28:26]

• Recurring bit about hauntings always being accompanied by bad smells:

  "A fart cloud. A paranormal fart club. Now, as soon as the odor entered Cynthia’s nostrils. The smell was apparently so overpowering that it sent her into a coughing fit." – Ash [44:38]

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Conclusion: The Lasting Impact of the Perron Haunting

[71:33–74:10]

• The story remains a foundational “real” haunting for American folklore and media (especially after The Conjuring).
• Both skepticism and belief persist, with the hosts admiring Carolyn’s resilience and acknowledging the emotional impact on the whole family.
• The episode closes with their signature humor, anticipation for spooky season, and a fond reminder of their love for haunted tales.

“Love hauntings… It’s almost spooky season.” – Ash & Elena [74:01]

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Segment Timestamps (Quick Reference)

• Perron Family Background: [09:03–13:25]
• Turning Tragedy in Cumberland: [13:25–18:49]
• Finding the House: [27:27–33:36]
• Early Haunting Signs: [36:05–47:46]
• Physical Encounters and Community Warnings: [47:46–51:06]
• Disbelief and Family Strain: [51:06–62:13]
• Bathsheba Sherman Lore & The Warrens Enter: [62:13–66:38]
• Warrens’ Seance & Fallout: [66:38–70:30]
• Final Years & Modern Legacy: [70:30–74:10]

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Final Thought

If you’re looking for an in-depth, entertaining, and empathetic exploration of one of America’s most famous hauntings—with all the layered humanity, cultural context, and a few legendary zingers—you’ll find this episode a can’t-miss. Keep your lights on and your auras…maxed.

Transcript

[Ash]

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[Doug]

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[Ash]

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[Doug]

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[Elena]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Doug]

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[Elena]

Liberty.

[Ash]

Liberty.

[Elena]

Liberty.

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[Ash]

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[Ash]

Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash.

[Elena]

And I'm Elena.

[Ash]

And this is morbid.

[Elena]

It is.

[Ash]

I'm covered in soy sauce, you guys. No, I am. Did you not see Mikey?

[Elena]

Mikey. It sounded like a weird like 900 number beginning to like. Like some kind of weird 100%.

[Ash]

King said it like sexy, but you

[Elena]

were like, hello, I'm covered in soy sauce.

[Ash]

Is there a sexy way to say that?

[Elena]

I mean, hey, big boy, there's something for everyone. Covered in soy sauce. I'm not here to kink shame. Me either.

[Ash]

If that's your kink, that's niche.

[Elena]

Get yourself some soy sauce.

[Ash]

Yeah. We got Chinese food today and I opened My, like, packet a little bit. And I was like, it's fine. Cause I was nervous. I was like, oh, I don't want to open it too much because it'll get all over my shirt. And now there's just little, like, sprays of soil over me.

[Elena]

You just soy sauced.

[Ash]

I do love soy sauce. But this is a brand new 7Up shirt. It is.

[Elena]

She is wearing a T shirt. A 7Up, a cherry 7Up.

[Ash]

And it's cute on the back too. It's got like a whole thing going that's a little about me.

[Elena]

But now it's got soy sauce on it.

[Ash]

I know. Like the rest of my clothes.

[Elena]

Yeah, Deb. Deb also got us squishy butter. Like, stress things.

[Ash]

We're very into. Like, what are the. Are these called, like, fidget toys? Are these considered that? I feel like we're very into these lately.

[Elena]

They're nice. Especially when we're recording if they don't make sound.

[Ash]

Yeah. Cuz I had a dumpling that did make it sound like I was myself. And Elena would look over at me and be like. And I'd be like, it's not me, it's the dumpling. I'm not myself in the publab. God.

[Elena]

And she couldn't do it while we were recording, cuz you guys would have heard it.

[Ash]

I think I probably did a couple times. Mikey either edited them out or did me dirty. I did a couple times, like, squeeze my dumpling and it sounded like it farted. That's not a euphemism. I was gonna say.

[Elena]

What the is going on right now? What is happening?

[Ash]

No, it's a literal dumpling, you guys. God damn. All right, we're gonna talk about a haunting today. You have shit to say other than that?

[Elena]

Oh, yeah, I do.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah, I do.

[Elena]

So I.

[Ash]

There's.

[Elena]

If you. Okay. Hi. You got this. I just didn't know how to start that. If you. You right there, are psyched about the Butcher legacy, which, like, I am you. You better be. I am. You can read an excerpt of a chapter of it right now on Crime Reads.

[Ash]

You can do it.

[Elena]

I'm going to post it on my socials. We got it in the show notes. You can read a little excerpt. I believe it's chapter four.

[Ash]

I'm pretty sure.

[Elena]

Not the whole chapter, but it's an excerpt. Say that again. Excerpt.

[Ash]

Excerpt.

[Elena]

And yeah, you get to read some of the books. So you can see if. If it tickles your fancy.

[Ash]

I bet it will.

[Elena]

So go. Go do that. Because it's Fun.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Yay.

[Ash]

That's really cool. That's like a huge deal.

[Elena]

And then if you are on the fence somehow. Somehow about pre ordering the Butcher Legacy, after you read it, you're going to be like, I'll take 10, please.

[Ash]

You're going to be like, I got to hop off of this fence and onto the other side where the grass is greener.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And Elena's book is a plenty.

[Elena]

What are we doing on the fence?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Let me jump into the pit of the Butcher legacy.

[Ash]

You'll say, what a loser I was hanging out on that fence.

[Elena]

You will. And you know what? I'll forgive you. Because we listen and we don't judge. Yeah. So period.

[Ash]

Go read that excerpt. You should also buy tickets to our Radio City Music Hall.

[Elena]

Yeah, do that.

[Ash]

I was gonna say episode.

[Elena]

Episode.

[Ash]

We will. It will be an episode. In fact.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

We have come up with some really good merch ideas that I'm really excited about, so. And you can only get them there?

[Elena]

Yeah. Only there in one night only.

[Ash]

Better get tickets. Only go to Ticketmaster.

[Elena]

Have some fun segments planned.

[Ash]

Shit's gonna get buck.

[Elena]

It is.

[Ash]

All right.

[Elena]

Whatever that. Whatever Buck is, it's gonna get there.

[Ash]

You know, Remember that song that I wanted to play at my wedding, but everybody was like, you can' this at your wedding.

[Elena]

Yeah. Which I didn't understand. Everybody.

[Ash]

Everybody was being mean.

[Elena]

I supported you.

[Ash]

Make a bucking her. Drop it to the ground like she ain't got, man. It's too much booty for one man to handle. That's a wedding song. The. I would have got Buck at my wedding. I mean, I did anyway, but I

[Elena]

would have loved that.

[Ash]

There was an hour of my wedding that did, in fact, get so bucked that the children needed to be removed. Like, kids went home, parents were like, we should get them out of here. And those parents included John.

[Elena]

Yes.

[Ash]

I was like, bye, Bronco.

[Elena]

He was like, bye. Love you.

[Ash]

I was like, I gotta get them out.

[Elena]

Go, go, go.

[Ash]

I miss my wedding. I want to do it again.

[Elena]

I miss mine, too.

[Ash]

Yeah, but I want to do it again.

[Elena]

But I wouldn't. Yeah, I don't want to, like, plan.

[Ash]

That's the thing. Like, the planning of it all.

[Elena]

Yeah. I don't want to plan a wedding again.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

But I want to have one again, period. You know what song I pro. I promise we're gonna get into the case, but.

[Ash]

Yeah, just tell people when it starts. It might be 19 minutes.

[Elena]

Yeah, I was gonna say someone. Several people.

[Ash]

My show, not yours.

[Elena]

But I I was listening to. You know how Spotify will give you, like, this band's radio, you know, like a playlist?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

I had a. Something corporate, like, radio, which, let me tell you, brought the Used was on there.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Elena]

We had. Oh, it was great. It was total throwback. And then it had. Which I was like, I don't know if this one fits. But, like, all. It kind of does. It had fun on there, which makes sense because he's the singer from the format. The format was on it as well, and that was very.

[Ash]

Of that era.

[Elena]

But there's a song called Some Nights.

[Ash]

Is that the one where it's like, some nights I stand.

[Elena]

You're gonna stand in my castle? Yeah, it's not in my castle, but this song, We. We Are Young is the last song that played at my wedding when everyone was, like, clearing out.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah.

[Elena]

And I was like, oh, my God. Like, it immediately brought me back to the like. But I was like, oh, that just, like, brought me.

[Ash]

That's a really good ending song. I didn't pick mine, and I should have. I forget what it ended with, but I remember being like, I hate this song.

[Elena]

Oh, no, that's not great.

[Ash]

It was still fun.

[Elena]

I danced to it anyway.

[Ash]

But I was like, who the hell played this?

[Elena]

No, we had a good one, and everybody sang it. Hell, yeah.

[Ash]

Because you also.

[Elena]

Because we were young. So you were.

[Ash]

In fact, I feel like I was so much younger. And mine was only two years ago.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Anyways, we should get to the story.

[Elena]

Yeah, we'll get to the story. All right. Mark down the number.

[Ash]

I was just gonna say. What's the time?

[Elena]

Leave it in. We're being so shady.

[Ash]

I should also mention that I have a cold, so if my energy feels weird, I don't know what to tell you.

[Elena]

And you know what? Mikey will do his best to make this not.

[Ash]

I hope he leaves the shade in.

[Elena]

Leave the shade in.

[Ash]

Yeah. Helena's like, don't get fired.

[Elena]

Believe some of it.

[Ash]

All right, so we are going to be talking about the Perrin family haunting today, which apparently, apparently, apparently was the inspiration for the Conjuring movies. Oh, like the first one, at least.

[Elena]

Dang.

[Ash]

Yeah. Now, weirdly enough, from conjuring to this, the story of the Perrin haunting begins with a simple Catholic wedding.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. All right, let's start there.

[Ash]

Let's start at the wedding. Roger and Carolyn Perrin got married in 1957. Like a lot of people in New England, Roger grew up in a devoutly Catholic household.

[Elena]

We all know what that's like around here, done that.

[Ash]

And mine wasn't devout.

[Elena]

Mine was not devout.

[Ash]

I knew, I knew a lot of Catholic bitties.

[Elena]

Yeah, yeah, we got lots of Catholic biddies around.

[Ash]

Yeah, they're always running around. I don't know what they say, but anyway, I was like, they're always running

[Elena]

around saying, like, they're just always running around.

[Ash]

You know what? They're always running around saying. They're always running around saying. And also with you.

[Elena]

Yes, it's true. They're. They're always saying, Jesus, Mary and Joseph

[Ash]

and all my sainted sisters.

[Elena]

That's what my dad says, my grandpa.

[Ash]

Now, Carolyn grew up somewhat Christian, but she and her family really weren't like deeply steeped in religion by any means. And as she got older, she was really less interested in organized religion. But at the same time, she knew it was important to her husband and even more important to his mother. So she embraced Catholicism to keep the peace between herself and her new mother in law. She said, sure, I'll have a Catholic wedding.

[Elena]

Oof.

[Ash]

Now they wasted no time starting a family, and within a year, Carolyn was pregnant with their first child, Andrea. Not long after Andrea was born, Carolyn was pregnant again. And it was obvious that if their family was going to continue to grow like this, they were going to need a bigger house. So they moved to Willibantic, Connecticut, which is a small city in the southeastern part of the state. Over the next few years, they continued to grow and grow as a family, starting with Nancy, who was followed by Christine, and then Cynthia, and then finally April.

[Elena]

Whoa.

[Ash]

So five gals.

[Elena]

Five gals.

[Ash]

Oh, the dream.

[Elena]

I hope I have five girls. I have three gals.

[Ash]

I know, and five sounds like a lot. You have five girls because you have the pups.

[Elena]

That's true.

[Ash]

Now in her. Yeah, exactly. In her memoirs, their oldest daughter, Andrea, describes her mother as approaching each of her daughters with, quote, a usual thoughtful and kind consideration of each child.

[Elena]

I love that.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

What a parenting win, right?

[Ash]

That's the thing. They were all very close in age and they, you know, obviously had a lot in common. But Carolyn did her best to try to recognize their individuality and she praised their efforts. She minimally criticized them like she was a good mama. Now their dad, on the other hand, he was less encouraging and he wasn't that emotionally available. He also worked as a long haul trucker, so there were just periods where he wasn't home.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So I think that was kind of just like by design, you know? Yeah. Not like he designed it to not be Home. But just like, he wasn't always available because he was literally across.

[Elena]

He was literally in a truck across the street.

[Ash]

Yes. Thank you. Author Joe Nichol. We will link his book in the show. Notes wrote, it was a fact that harmed his marriage and kept him largely a stranger to his children, which is very sad.

[Elena]

That is sad.

[Ash]

I know. Now, Andrea is a lot less negative, though, in framing her father. But her description of him, at least in their younger years, was a lot less warm than her memories of her mother. She wrote, his acknowledgments were always more subdued and understated. Always a critical mention of room for improvement, though meaningful nonetheless. So obviously their mom was home more, so they were a bit closer with her.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Of course, with their father out of the house more often than not and their mom responsible for five young kids, the girls kind of turned to each other, obviously, first as playmates, but then as they grew up, they kind of became caregivers for one another. Like the older girls helped with the younger girls, and so on and so forth. This dynamic seemed to suit Carolyn more than the typical parent child relationship. Andrea said that she was less a caretaker and more a playmate. She took great pleasure in their company. It's just like six besties living in a house. Hell, yeah. Now with a big family and the need for some extra help, Roger and Carolyn ended up moving back to rhode island in 1964, and they settled in a small Cape style house in Cumberland, where the schools were good and they both had family nearby if they needed a sitter, yada yada. The Perrin kins remember their early life there fondly. They said it was an idyllic experience. But by 1970, their idyllic life started to feel like it was falling apart all around them. Uh oh. So by 1970, their idyllic life started to kind of feel like it was falling apart all around them. The first signal that things were changing for the family came in the form of a tragedy just days after summer vacation started in 1970. A few months earlier, Roger and Carolyn had bought a puppy that Carolyn inexplicably named Bathsheba.

[Elena]

I love that a lot.

[Ash]

Yeah, she said that she just pulled that name from the ether, I guess.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

Like, no reason.

[Elena]

But yeah, you just look at the

[Ash]

dog and you're like, it's interesting because Bathsheba. I looked a little bit into, like, her origins and she had five kids. Oh, she said, carolyn. So I was like, weird vibes. There's also another part that you're like, really, like, interesting. When things align. So one afternoon, Andrea begged her mom to let her take Bathsheba for a while. And Carolyn was like, go for it. With her sisters by her side, Andrea held on tight to the leash, and Bathsheba walked obediently beside her for a while. Trigger warning. We're gonna talk about animal death. The girls had been walking for a bit when a car full of teenagers came racing up over a hill with no warning. And Andrea remembered they must have been cheerleaders because they were, quote, shouting out something in unison while shaking brightly colored tassels from their open windows. Wow.

[Elena]

Get it together.

[Ash]

Stop speeding and get your fucking head in the window.

[Elena]

Just get it together.

[Ash]

Period.

[Elena]

Truly, to.

[Ash]

To surmise.

[Elena]

Get it together.

[Ash]

Thank you. Bathsheba ended up running into the street after the car, like, probably trying to protect the girls. Yeah.

[Elena]

Or seeing, like, the brightly colored.

[Ash]

Yeah, like, thinking it was like a toy or like a treat or something. Now, luckily, she made it to the other side of the street safely, but in a panic, Andrea called out for her to come back immediately and didn't check to see if there was any cars coming. And Bathsheba did as she was told and was tragically struck by an elderly couple who never saw her walking into the street.

[Elena]

Oh, that makes my heart hurt.

[Ash]

It's horrific.

[Elena]

Four elderly people, too.

[Ash]

And all five girls just watching their puppy.

[Elena]

Oh, that'll you up.

[Ash]

Yeah, big time.

[Elena]

That's rough.

[Ash]

That's the thing. Well, and the thing. The other thing was Carolyn and Roger brought the dog home, and they were like, obviously this is a pet for the whole family. But there was a bond between Andrea and Bathsheba, like, immediately, like, they really vibed together.

[Elena]

Sad.

[Ash]

And now her constant companion was ripped away in what felt like impossible circumstances.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You know those feelings when you're just like, oh, my God, I just want to rewind time so badly. Even worse, she couldn't help but feel responsible. If she hadn't told Bathsheba to come back across the street, she felt she probably wouldn't have been struck by the car. So obviously, this is a devastating incident. All five of the girls were at the scene when she was hit, so they ran home immediately, and they explained to their mom what had happened, and Carolyn was just as devastated. Also, it wasn't just the loss of a pet for her, but she was heartbroken for her children.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And worried that they had seen something so traumatizing.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

And there was also this weird underlying feeling that Bathsheba's death signaled something about the subtle changes in Their community. Things were shifting that summer. If that carload of teenagers had actually been following the law, not yelling and hanging out of their windows, maybe that entire scene wouldn't have happened.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So in the weeks that followed, everyone in the family dealt with their grief in their own ways. But Andrea seemed to struggle more than the other kids. She was racked with an intense sense of guilt, and she was usually, like, a very chatty, outgoing girl, but this just made her kind of, like, pull into herself. The shift in her personality was really concerning for Carolyn, but at the same time, there were other things going on that were kind of occupying most of her attention. She couldn't pinpoint exactly when things started to change, but that summer, Cumberland, Rhode island, was actually experiencing kind of a juvenile crime wave. Wow. Which is wild.

[Elena]

The.

[Ash]

Hell yeah. Boys around the neighborhood who were, like, once friendly, awkward little kids had started to feel kind of menacing and dangerous.

[Elena]

Ew.

[Ash]

And according to Andrea, a list of minor and major infractions included a number of petty thefts, gangland assaults on the schoolyard playground, from vicious pranks to more threatening encounters with rumors of weapons involved.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

And things took a very serious turn when, again, according to Andrea, there was a, quote, attempted sexual assault on a young girl who had been gagged and bound to playground equipment at their elementary school. What the fuck? Yeah. So shit was getting fucking gnarly.

[Elena]

I say it again. Get it together.

[Ash]

Get it together.

[Elena]

What the fuck?

[Ash]

Between 1970 and 1974, violent crime in Rhode island and Cumberland, Rhode island, increased more than 60%.

[Elena]

Whoa.

[Ash]

So, like, this wasn't just a feeling that something weird was happening. It was back up, was going on, and the city was becoming more dangerous.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

So by the time the summer had come to an end, the traumatic events of the season, which were capped off by the death of the family's cat and a break in at their house.

[Elena]

Oh, my God.

[Ash]

It had all been way more than Carolyn could tolerate.

[Elena]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[Ash]

When they had moved back to Rhode island six years earlier, it was to put down roots, to raise their family in the safe, quiet community with family nearby. But now this community did not feel safe. And the home and town had multiple tragic memories that Carolyn wanted to shield her kids from.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

To make matters worse, with Roger out on the road, more often than not, the growing stress and anxiety of all of this fell solely on Carolyn to manage. So she was just really going through it. So finally, when Roger got back from a job that fall, she sat him down at the kitchen table and she basically said, in no uncertain terms. She was straight up not having a good time in Cumberland, Rhode Island.

[Elena]

I am not having a good time.

[Ash]

Straight up not having a good time.

[Elena]

Not killing it.

[Ash]

She said, it's not for us out here in these streets.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

And I would like to sell this house and move into the country.

[Elena]

This place is harshing my mellow.

[Ash]

Harshing the vibe.

[Elena]

And I need to get out.

[Ash]

So the vibes are rancid.

[Elena]

So harsh.

[Ash]

There's this new thing that the kids are saying.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

It's like aura mogging or something like that.

[Elena]

Just. What?

[Ash]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Elena]

How do you mog someone's aura?

[Ash]

I don't even know if it's aura mogging. It's aura something. I gotta look this up really quick. What are the Gen Zs saying about auras?

[Elena]

What do the Gen Zs have to say about auras?

[Ash]

Aura farming. That's what it is.

[Elena]

Aura farming.

[Ash]

Aura farming is the act of consciously and sometimes desperately trying to boost one's cool image. It is frequently used in a derogatory way to describe somebody as trying too hard. Often seen as cringe.

[Elena]

You know what's trying too hard? Saying we're coming up with a term called aura farming.

[Ash]

Wait, you know what? I am kind of obsessed with them.

[Elena]

Stop caring.

[Ash]

Whatever. You know what I'm obsessed with, though?

[Elena]

What?

[Ash]

Aura maxing.

[Elena]

I need all the maxing to stop. I learned too much. You guys are all talking about fiber maxing.

[Ash]

We are.

[Elena]

I'm hearing idiots on the Internet talking about looks maxing. I'm hearing whatever the. Is it aura, Max? Looks maxing is like apparently all these.

[Ash]

Is that like a glow up?

[Elena]

But it's like extreme. I think, like crazy.

[Ash]

I like aura maxing.

[Elena]

I think everyone just needs to chill the out.

[Ash]

What about chill out, Max? And relax and all. Cool.

[Elena]

Shooting some B ball outside of the school.

[Ash]

Is that good?

[Elena]

Yeah, that is cool.

[Ash]

All right.

[Elena]

That's what I mean.

[Ash]

Yeah, I was just gonna say that. Cumberland, Rhode island was not. Or am I not at this time? In case there's any Gen Z's listening. Let me translate that for you. Yeah, there was.

[Elena]

Yeah, it was not auramaxing.

[Ash]

So when Carolyn first made her case to Roger, he was like, I don't really know if we're in the financial position to do that. This feels very impulsive. And he was like, I also don't think a few bad experiences are sufficient enough reason to leave. He's like, lift your crime rate, though. I was like, the home invasion is the crime is the crime of it all upsetting to you, Roger.

[Elena]

Yeah, that would bumm me out.

[Ash]

So by the time they reached. By the time they got to bed that night, they reached an impasse. There was no immediate solution. And as far as Roger was concerned, he said there was no point undwelling what they couldn't change. Oh, it's like.

[Elena]

Well, you could.

[Ash]

You can change your surroundings, you can

[Elena]

change whatever you want to change.

[Ash]

You can change your hair, and you can change your clothes, and you can change your mind, and that's the way it goes. Exactly. And after that, ask Hillary. No, that's.

[Elena]

Is that.

[Ash]

That's not Hillary. That's Hannah.

[Elena]

No, that's Hillary.

[Ash]

That's Hillary. Yeah.

[Elena]

You can change your mind.

[Ash]

No, no, no. I was saying you can change your hair and you can change your clothes, you can change your mind, and that's the way.

[Elena]

So what is Hillary's.

[Ash]

She says you can change your mind if you want to. You can act real tough, but if

[Elena]

you're something else, I'll trust you on this one, because I know I'm right. Yeah, Yeah, I know you're right Here.

[Ash]

And the Hannah Montana resurgence, like, put that into my head.

[Elena]

See? And I think I'm. I'm for the Hillary Duff resurgence. Yeah, I had that on the brain.

[Ash]

She's not resurging at this very moment. Hannah Montana is resurging at this very.

[Elena]

I think Hillary's on tour.

[Ash]

Is she? I would go. She's resurging. I would go to that. Yeah, she's. We can't bring John, though, because one time they made eye contact. Yeah, he.

[Elena]

He claimed that one time at a concert when he was younger. Yes, he went to a Hillary Duff concert.

[Ash]

He took his niece, right?

[Elena]

No, he dated a girl. Oh, he dated a girl that had him going to Hillary Duff concerts. You know who you are? Just kidding. No, you should be. I'm just kidding. We have three children and have been

[Ash]

married for, like, 5,000, but we still hate her.

[Elena]

Real girl. Yeah, but I'm totally kidding. It's a Jo joke. But he went to. We're like, this is a joke. Please know that. Yeah, she made him go to a Hillary Duff concert. And he said. He claims to this day, I believe they made icon. So, Hillary, if you're listening, back off,

[Ash]

because I understand him, because I made eye contact with Harry Styles at a Harry Styles concert, and he definitely sang to me for a solid second.

[Elena]

I know I'm the only one who has not had this.

[Ash]

Here's the thing, too. I have photographic Evidence of Harry Styles looking at me. He's looking right at.

[Elena]

That's actually true.

[Ash]

And his see, when John went.

[Elena]

It was a time before the camera. So.

[Ash]

Yeah. So. But you know what I believe as somebody who's made made eye contact with a handsome fella slash beautiful lady. Yeah. You know, you know, you know, I

[Elena]

haven't had that experience. I need to add that to my repertoire.

[Ash]

I bet Tobias has made eye contact with you, but you just can't see

[Elena]

because I just can't see. I'm gonna hold on to that.

[Ash]

I got you.

[Elena]

I'll hold on to that.

[Ash]

I love these episodes because they get so loosey goosey.

[Elena]

They do. I love these.

[Ash]

It's my fave. You know that feeling when you walk out of a doctor's office and you're like, wow, they actually made me feel so much better. The right doctor can make you feel lighter, clearer, more hopeful. I personally love my primary doctor. He's the nicest guy. The first thing he asks when he comes in the room is like, about my life, about my job. He remembers things from our last appointment and it's awesome. You can find doctors just like that on zocdoc. Zocdoc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so that you can find somebody you love. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states. I've had to use Zocdoc in a pinch before and you know, I'm always hesitant to use something like that because I do love my doctor so much. But I use Zocdoc and I was so pleased with the experience. I had the kindest nurse practitioner who helped me through a little ear infection thing going on and I was like, wow, you are such a nice person. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.commorbid to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's z o c-o c.commorbid zocdoc.commorbid thanks Zocdoc for sponsoring this message. This show is sponsored by Liquid iv. Last weekend I had the most packed weekend of my entire life. We had a birthday party, I had a meeting randomly. I had a couple errands to run. There was just so much going on all day. Events like big game days aren't just about the opening moments. They require superior hydration from start to finish. And Liquid IV's hydration multiplier. Sugar free is is Designed to help you stay hydrated through those marathon days. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. It's powered by live hydro science, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. I love Liquid iv. You should see my pantry. It's chalk full of Liquid IV and I've recently actually been very into the sugar free flavor. I have been drinking the sugar free Liquid IV raspberry for like 42 days in a row. At this point. I'm obsessed with it. I always have one in my car and I always have one in my bag. I love Liquid IV and so will you. Show up start to finish with hydration from Liquid iv Hydration multiplier, sugar free tear, pour and live more. Go to LiquidIV.com and get 20 off your first order with code MORBID at checkout. That's 20 off your first order with code [e-mail] your paycheck date could soon become the most irrelevant number in your life. Isn't that nuts? I Earn in is a non bank finance app with 5 million users and growing. The concept is simple. You earn money, you access it up to $150 a day of what you've already worked for up to $1,000 between paychecks. Tips are optional and standard transfers take one to two business days with no mandatory fees. It's not about emergencies, it's just about a better way to exist financially. Day to day. It's worth checking out. I remember being like, oh no, I'm living paycheck to paycheck. I can't get a coffee this morning. But I was going to work. I deserved a coffee. And with Earn In I could have got the coffee. Download Earn in on the App Store or Google Play spelled like earning money without the G. Type in Morbid under podcast when you sign up. It'll really help the show. Earn in is a financial technology company, not a bank. Access limits are based on your earnings and your risk factors. Standard cash outs take one to two business days with no mandatory fees. Expedited transfers available for a fee. Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service available in select states. Terms and restrictions apply. Visit ernan.com for full details. So Roger said, hell nah Carolyn, we can't afford that and who cares? Yeah, but Carol. So Carolyn started keeping her anxieties to herself and she didn't bring up moving again. And a few days later Roger was

[Elena]

back on the road. Oh, no.

[Ash]

According to Andrea, her father's latest trip quote, kept him away just long enough for the universe to intervene on their behalf.

[Elena]

Oh, boy.

[Ash]

Which I fucking love. So while waiting for one of her daughter's music lessons to end, Carolyn was just flicking through a copy of the Woonsocket call and, you know, just mulling along.

[Elena]

Just mulling along.

[Ash]

Flipping through the real estate section, she came across a listing for a nine room colonial farmhouse in Harrisville on 200 acres of land for $75,000.

[Elena]

Oh, give it to me.

[Ash]

Which also.

[Elena]

Give it to me.

[Ash]

That would be $600,000.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

Or is it 600?

[Elena]

Hold on. Is that.

[Ash]

I'll be back. So, yeah, it was like $600,000, like, give or take. Which. Honestly, for 200 acres of land.

[Elena]

Yeah, I'd do that if I could, you know. That's sick.

[Ash]

So for the rest of the afternoon, Carolyn just couldn't help but think that that was the perfect opportunity. And the fact that she had come across it in the paper was a sign that it was the house for them.

[Elena]

Hell, yeah.

[Ash]

Despite Roger having emphatically told her that they literally did not have the money to move that night, Carolyn said 1-800-listing agent, and she scheduled a showing for the following day.

[Elena]

I love that.

[Ash]

I love it, Carolyn.

[Elena]

Go get it. Period. Yeah, I would. I want to see it.

[Ash]

It's the conjuring house.

[Elena]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ash]

Oh, I thought you were saying to me, I want to see the house. I was like, it's the car.

[Elena]

Thank you, thank you. Thank you for that. You said you want to see. You can. It's the conjuring house. No, I would just be like, I want to see it. Yeah, show it to me.

[Ash]

Yeah, show me to me, Rachel.

[Elena]

There it is. I was waiting for it.

[Ash]

I know you were. So Carolyn met the realtor the following morning, and they drove out to Harrisville together. Along the way, she gazed longingly out the window at what was to her a quaint, idyllic, beautiful town, perfect to raise her daughters in.

[Elena]

Oh, it's gonna be amazing.

[Ash]

Yeah. It was exactly what she wanted for her family.

[Elena]

Yeah. I don't think anything bad is gonna happen.

[Ash]

No, it's not.

[Elena]

This is just a nice story.

[Ash]

It's gorgeous. She's just, like, gazing out the window like she's in a music video.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Do you remember when it would rain and you were sitting in the back seat and you'd just be like, I'm gon music video right now.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. Anybody who isn't the main character in Their own music videos, movies, TV shows. All the time.

[Ash]

Lies do it.

[Elena]

You're either lying or you need to do it.

[Ash]

Yeah. Whimsify your life. Yeah. So things only got better when they got to the house. There were apple trees in the yard, lush green lawn. The house itself was this picturesque colonial home. According to the groundskeeper, the house was actually built by a master shipwright in 1736.

[Elena]

That's sick.

[Ash]

And it was made of solid oak.

[Elena]

Oh, Hel. Yeah.

[Ash]

And it was thanks to that masterful construction and solid materials that the house managed to survive during so many devastating hurricane seasons that destroyed a lot of the other colonials in town.

[Elena]

It had legs.

[Ash]

It had legs. By the time they finished storing the house, Carolyn was pretty much sold that it was hers. But the groundskeeper is the one who really convinced her. After giving her a tour of the property, he walked both women back to the car, and he shook Carolyn's hand, and he gave her a genuine look of kindness and said, this is a wonderful place to raise a family.

[Elena]

Oh, that would have sold me.

[Ash]

Me too. You know, they hadn't even closed their doors, and Carolyn was reaching into that purse for her checkbook, and she said to the realtor, my husband is out of town. How much does it take to hold this place good?

[Elena]

Honestly, good for her.

[Ash]

I'm obsessed. Yeah, I'm obsessed.

[Elena]

Because at least you gotta make sure nobody else gets it. Yeah.

[Ash]

So Andrea's account of how they came to live in the house has this, like, mystical quality that's strongly suggest some unseen force had intervened to ensure that Carolyn found the listing, saw the house, and made the down payment. As a science, girly myself, I love that Carolyn thought this was the universe.

[Elena]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Ash]

And maybe it was, you know, the universe wants to teach you things. Maybe this was like her Saturn return or something.

[Elena]

There you go.

[Ash]

Probably not, but maybe. I don't know.

[Elena]

But maybe she had five kids at this point.

[Ash]

But it was a different time. Anyways, unfortunately for Carolyn, Roger was upset that he was like, hey, it's the 70s. You can't spend money without me.

[Elena]

I mean, here's the thing. Like, yeah, you should probably talk together if you're for sure.

[Ash]

For sure.

[Elena]

You know, that's.

[Ash]

But she tried to talk to him and he wasn't listening.

[Elena]

Well, that's.

[Ash]

At the end. What's a woman to do?

[Elena]

Were steps taken that. That maybe should have waited. Yeah, yeah.

[Ash]

But like, he's in a truck. What was she meant to do?

[Elena]

We listen and we don't judge, period. You Know.

[Ash]

So, more than mad, he also just wasn't interested in hearing about the house or the beautiful grounds or how perfectly suited it was for their family. He was interested in one thing only. How the fuck they were gonna get that check back from the realtor.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

But Carolyn persisted. She was like, no, this is the right decision for us. Roger. Listen to me.

[Elena]

Listen, Roger.

[Ash]

And eventually, he yielded and he agreed to tour the house with her.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

He said, I'm not saying we're moving, but I'll go look at it.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So the next day, the entire family piled into the car and they headed back to Harrisville to see the house once again. They were met by the groundskeeper, Mr. Kenyon, who Roger was immediately charmed by and very endeared to. The girls ran off to play in the yard. And Mr. Kenyon showed the parents the house. And although he was still pretty pissed at his wife for being so impulsive and completely disregarding his wishes on the matter, Roger did have to admit, it's pretty great house.

[Elena]

It is, yeah.

[Ash]

The interior was just as beautiful and stately as the exterior. It was much. It was more than adequate for their family. And a few hundred yards away, a stream ran through the woods with water clear enough for Roger to legit see little fishies swimming beneath the surface.

[Elena]

Little fishies.

[Ash]

It was perfect.

[Elena]

It was picturesque.

[Ash]

So back at home that night, they put the girls to bed and they sat down to discuss everything. For every glowing word that Carolyn had for the house, Roger offered a critique. Though he was not quite sold yet. She brought up the crystal clear stream and the natural spring on the property. And he pointed out the ancient plumbing and the fact that there was only one bathroom in the entire fucking house. House. But no matter. Would be rough. That would be rough. But no matter how pragmatic he was or how many reasonable concerns he had, in the end, there was no getting around the fact that he was just as impressed with the house as Carolyn was. And he agreed that night. Okay, we'll figure it out. Let's do it.

[Elena]

Let's go.

[Ash]

So after lots of planning, lots of preparation, moving day finally arrived. The second week of January, 1971. You couldn't pay me money to move in New England in January.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

Why? Yeah, Wait till at least March.

[Elena]

That. That's. That's the real horror.

[Ash]

Yeah. Here it really is.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Moving in January.

[Elena]

What?

[Ash]

So having spent everything on the down payment for the house, there was no money to hire movers. But luckily, friends and family pitched in to help the parents get settled into their new house. As the last pieces of furniture were being carried inside, Mr. Kenyon, the groundskeeper, appeared at the door to say hello and welcome, everybody. And he was charming as ever. And Roger appreciated having somebody nearby who was familiar with the property. But before he Left that afternoon, Mr. Kenyon said something that would haunt Roger in the days and weeks to come. Oh, he said, leave the lights on at night. Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

[Elena]

Okay. That. That might send me.

[Ash]

That would me up.

[Elena]

That would send me.

[Ash]

I'd be like, I don't know where

[Elena]

it would send me, but it would send me.

[Ash]

It would send me away. Yeah. Far away. It would send me on my way. On the way. Be out of there.

[Elena]

Out of there. No, thank you.

[Ash]

Yeah, I'd be like, I'd like to leave now.

[Elena]

Also, I'm pretty sure the conjuring house is, like, closed.

[Ash]

Really?

[Elena]

Yeah, I think it, like, they.

[Ash]

Is it in between owners? Is that why?

[Elena]

Yeah, I think they don't have their. Their business license was, like, revoked.

[Ash]

Oh.

[Elena]

And then I think it was going up for auction.

[Ash]

It definitely was because wasn't some tool

[Elena]

trying to buy it. Yeah, I don't remember who. I do, and I do, too,

[Ash]

But

[Elena]

I don't remember, like, my wife.

[Ash]

We're looking at you, but I don't see who.

[Elena]

I don't see, like, what happened. I just looked online. I don't know what. The results of all that was interesting. I'm just interested now. I'm like, what's going on? You gonna buy it?

[Ash]

Like, give me the conjuring. You're like, hey, can I see a. Give me that haunted location. Can I see some paperwork? What?

[Elena]

Didn't Sam and Colby buy a haunted location? They bought a school.

[Ash]

Yeah, they bought a school.

[Elena]

I wanna.

[Ash]

So, yeah, the comment, I guess, didn't really necessarily come off as menacing to Roger anyway, But something about it put Roger off, and he was very uncomfortable.

[Elena]

Something about it.

[Ash]

Probably just the comment.

[Elena]

Yeah, probably just the content, the whole comment.

[Ash]

Leave the lights on at night. I'd be like, first of all, that's expensive, Mr. Kenyon.

[Elena]

That's when he goes to walk, and

[Ash]

you go, what does that mean? You do the little finger wag.

[Elena]

Like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[Ash]

Hold up. Brother, brother, brother.

[Elena]

What's that?

[Ash]

So from the moment that they. The moment.

[Elena]

This is an unhinged episode.

[Ash]

I know.

[Elena]

From the moment, this is the conjuring in here.

[Ash]

They moved into the old farmhouse. Carolyn was very surprised by how much noise that it made. Like, when Everything was quiet.

[Elena]

The house?

[Ash]

Yeah. Oh, it wasn't that surprising. They moved in during the coldest part of the year. And every New Englander obviously knows, like, like, your house is going to be creaking. Incredible.

[Elena]

The clinging, the clanging, the.

[Ash]

The creaking, the cracking plumbing, old floors, what have you.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. I used to love when our family from, like, out of town, like, John's family from out of town would come stay over, and they were like, what the is that? I was like, just house.

[Ash]

Just the pipes.

[Elena]

It's just.

[Ash]

House is settling.

[Elena]

Don't worry about it.

[Ash]

There's like a random crack in our wall. I was like, what the is that? And Drew goes, I don't know. The house settled.

[Elena]

I don't know. Oh, okay. That's good. Like, I don't know. It's New England.

[Ash]

But even by those standards, New England standards, the Greeks and groans from the old house were definitely eerie.

[Elena]

And like.

[Ash]

Like, they happened much more frequently than the usual ones. The house was like, sorta.

[Elena]

And they were like, that's new.

[Ash]

They were like, huh. Now it was all the more noticeable since they never got any keys to the house when they moved in. Yeah. Mr. Kenyon just was like, I never locked the doors. No need. Nobody will bother you here.

[Elena]

Okay. I love that. But, like, I hate that.

[Ash]

I love that. Nobody will bother. Yeah.

[Elena]

But I'd let no one. Keys bother me. But why?

[Ash]

And also, like, question. They had. They had gone through a break in.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Like, I'm gonna lock everything. Yeah. If you're.

[Elena]

If you're buying somewhere, like, to get away from crime. Yeah. Get keys. Or even if you're not moving there to get away from crime.

[Ash]

If you're.

[Elena]

If you're moving into a place, get

[Ash]

keys and then change the locks. Yeah, definitely get those keys Now, a few weeks after they moved in, Carolyn was surprised to learn that it wasn't just her who had been hearing strange sounds in the house. House. One day while she was home alone with April, who was the youngest daughter, April was like, yeah, I hear upstairs all the time.

[Elena]

She's like, yeah, shit's going crazy.

[Ash]

Yeah. And she was like. I think she was like 4 or 5.

[Elena]

And she literally said, like, shit's going crazy.

[Ash]

She was like, mom, shit is popping the off upstairs. The comment caught Carolyn off guard, and she didn't really know how to respond because she doesn't want to scare her daughter. But she's like, oh, cool, you're hearing it too.

[Elena]

Yeah. And she's like, where'd you learn those Words.

[Ash]

She's like, damn, I better get the dawn dish soap out. So by the time she got around to asking what kind of things April had heard in her room, April was, like, distracted with something else. Because she's a kid.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

She's got to go learn new swear words.

[Elena]

She's got shit to do.

[Ash]

So she said that, too. She was like, I have to do Mom. So one February day, when the older girls were all at school and Carolyn was home with April, she had just put April down for a nap, and she got this eerie feeling. She got used to all the noise that the house made. The creaking, the popping, the scent, the walking, the dropping. They'd also heard hush talking from rooms.

[Elena]

My parents also hear that.

[Ash]

We hear that, too. No, I can't even, like, say that. That's just them. I used to hear that one. No, I did. So they were used to that. But this time, something was different. It felt like there was somebody else in the house with her, but, like, it was a presence that she couldn't see, but she could for sure feel. She said the air felt heavy, thick, and dark. So she closed her eyes and she tried to push the heavy feeling away. And within a few minutes, it passed. Later that afternoon, after the girls got home from school, Carolyn gave them some milk and cookies. And she was like, go play, like, over here, so you don't wake April up because she's still sleeping. So, doing as they were told, they went into the living room to play a game and eat their snack. But they were interrupted a few minutes later by an unhappy and obviously still sleepy April. And she wanted to know who the shook me in my goddamn sleep like that, thinking that their sister was overtired or just being silly. The other girls laughed, but they were immediately admonished by Carolyn, who was, like, not very happy that April was up for lap that early. So she had been in the kitchen next to the living room. She could see and hear the girls very clearly. Like, she knew all four of them were down there playing. So she also knew that none of them had gone upstairs to wake up April. So she pulled April onto her lap, and she's trying to soothe her. She's like, nobody touched you while you were asleep. Like, they didn't. None of the girls went into your room. It was probably just a bad dream. That technique was usually successful. But on that afternoon, April could not be soothed. She was very upset. She insisted that one of her sisters had slapped her and pushed her while she was sleeping and then ran out of the room. And she said she could even hear their footsteps as they fled into the hallway.

[Elena]

That's terrifying.

[Ash]

Yeah. So, seeing that April was genuinely upset and, like, inconsolable at this point with what she'd experienced, the rest of the girls got more serious, and they joined in, trying to help calm her down. Oh, they all told her, none of us went into your room. Like you probably were dreaming. But after a while, even Carolyn wasn't so sure that April was dreaming. Her mind flashed back to the feeling that she had earlier that day, putting April down for her nap, that she wasn't alone in the room, and she was sure that if there was somebody else in the house, she would have noticed them by now. After all, the house was not that big.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And it also seemed like every floorboard had its own noise.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But she still couldn't help but wonder, was there something in the house with them? Ooh. Yeah.

[Elena]

You don't want to have to wonder that.

[Ash]

That you don't. It's probably on. On the, like, my top 10 list of things to not want to have to worry about.

[Elena]

Yeah. I want to go my whole life wondering. Not that.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

So.

[Ash]

Since moving in that second week of January, Roger had only been able to enjoy the new house for a few days before he was back out on the road. So when he finally got home in mid February, he was just eager to relax and enjoy the house. But from the moment he got home, he could tell that something was off with Carolyn. She seemed very troubled that night after the girls went to bed. He was like, what's going on? Like, you seem super off. And it took a little work. But eventually, Carolyn did start to tell him about the noises that she'd been hearing and the more recent unshakable feeling that there was somebody in the house with them. He told her that the light in the house was definitely strange, and it even played tricks with his eyes. But it was probably just that. But the more he talked, the more Carolyn realized that she. He didn't really understand what she was saying. No, it wasn't just that. She had an uncomfortable feeling like everybody gets from time to time. It was a genuine, like, feeling that there was actually somebody else there with her, watching her. So it was obvious to Roger that Carolyn was upset and something had for sure frightened her. But whether it was his Catholic upbringing or just that he hadn't had any experiences like that himself, he just couldn't bring himself to accept that anything was going on in the house. It had to have been reasonable. He insisted that she just was spending too much time alone. Or maybe she was alone with the kids and their imagine imaginations. Too much. So throughout most of their ordeal in the house, this was kind of Roger's, like, way of handling things.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

According to Nickel, Roger eventually seemed to acquiesce, Possibly to promote domestic harmony. But he never appears to have truly believed the claims from his wife and daughter.

[Elena]

Interesting.

[Ash]

Which is rude.

[Elena]

It seems like he was accusing her of aura farming. Yeah. This haunting.

[Ash]

Yeah. He was saying your aura points have gone down a lot.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So as winter turned to spring and then to summer, the noises continued. And that feeling of being watched would come over Carolyn and the girls. Now, every so often in time, the area of the hallway that connected the kitchen and the dining room became the least comfortable place in the house. The temperature inexplicably fluctuated wildly between hot and cold, like super, super hot or absolutely freezing. See your breath cold. And it didn't matter what the temperature was in the rest of the house. According to Andrea, the girls always, quote, moved quickly through that corridor, unconsciously sensing the presence, always feeling watched within the dark spaces.

[Elena]

Ooh.

[Ash]

As time passed, they started to share their own experiences with each other and were kind of relieved to find that they weren't alone in what was going on.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Andrea said nobody ever lingered too long near the cellar door. And that was because on the day they moved in, two of the girls had seen what they thought was a man standing in the dark corner just beyond the door. And at the time, they dismissed it as like a shadow, or, like their dad said, a trick of the light. But over time, the heavy feeling that they got around the cellar door and the sounds that came from the cellar convinced them that it wasn't an illusion. Now it was Cynthia who first encountered the full blown apparition of a man.

[Elena]

I don't want to see an apparition of a man.

[Ash]

Neither did Cynthia.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

The school year had just started. She was rushing to get her things together one morning so she wouldn't miss the bus. The bus driver was literally out front, like, blaring the horn, and she's trying to scoop everything up and make the. Make it in time. But before she could get there, a, quote, silky, smoky figure emerged from the cellar. So she had no time to even react to what was going on, and she just rushed headlong into it, which caused the mask to disappear in an invisible and foul smelling cloud. Cloud.

[Elena]

Ew. A fart cloud.

[Ash]

A fart cloud. A paranormal fart club. Now, as soon as the odor Entered Cynthia's nostrils. The smell was apparently so overpowering that it sent her into a coughing fit.

[Elena]

Oh, my God. Go to the doctor.

[Ash]

Yeah, well, she kind of did. She made it out to the bus, and she got to school on time. But within an hour of getting to school, she was exhausted. She couldn't concentrate. She was falling asleep at her desk.

[Elena]

Desk.

[Ash]

So the teacher sent her to the nurse because they're like, what the is going on?

[Elena]

They said, I think you. I think you inhaled a fart club.

[Ash]

I think you turned in a paranormal fart club. Yeah, that. We don't really have treatment for that, so we just go home and sleep it off. But a short time later, Carolyn picked her up and brought her home.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

So Cynthia's encounter didn't really result in much more than the symptoms of a cold. But, like, the fact that that gave her cold Just got pink eyed from ghosts.

[Elena]

I'm pissed.

[Ash]

But it was an indication that whatever they shared their home with could and would interact with them when it wanted to. Yeah. And those interactions might have physical consequences.

[Elena]

Damn.

[Ash]

A few days later, speaking of physical consequences, Carolyn was out in the barn clearing out some of the old objects that had been left behind, and she had an encounter of her own. As she was working, she started to hear a kind of whoosh sound come from the hayloft above her, Like a whooshing.

[Elena]

I don't like that.

[Ash]

Like that? Yeah. Carolyn wondered if it was like a bird or an animal that was trapped up there. And she started to climb the ladder to try to help if it was. Then, out of nowhere, a hand scythe came flying in her direction from above. What? So she tried to move or jump out of the way, but she felt like she was paralyzed, like she literally couldn't move. Now, to her relief, the scythe struck the ground just inches from her foot. Holy. Which. Which spared her any harm. But the question remained, who or what had thrown a scythe in her direction? Yeah, that's. She didn't know. Wow. Wow. Or high.

[Elena]

Wow. Or high.

[Ash]

Or how or why. But the thing Carolyn did know was that the implement had not just fallen, it had clearly been thrown, like, with force.

[Elena]

That's crazy.

[Ash]

Now, from that point on is when the activity in the house really escalated, the worst of it always coming when Roger was away. One afternoon a few weeks after the attack in the barn, there was a knock on the door. And when Carolyn opened it, she was met by her neighbor, Mrs. Pettigrew, who knew that Roger was away and was just kind of stopping in to be like, how you doing? So Carolyn invited her in. She went upstairs to change and into more presentable clothes. And Mrs. Pettigrew and the children sat in the kitchen eating the cake that she brought. And suddenly they were startled by the sound of Carolyn screaming from the bedroom down the hall.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

Now rushing to her aid, they all burst in the room just in time to. They all saw this. See her being whacked across the face, head and neck with a wire coat hanger, held in the air just, like, by some unseen force.

[Elena]

It was not Joan Crawford.

[Ash]

No, it was not. No, she doesn't like wire hangers.

[Elena]

No, she doesn't. No wire.

[Ash]

No wire hangers. What the. Yeah. So seconds after they entered the room, the coat hanger just dropped to the floor. Whatever had held it previously was gone. And Carolyn was just sitting there in

[Elena]

tears, just having been hit with a wire hanger. But she also saw this.

[Ash]

What's that?

[Elena]

How many people saw this?

[Ash]

Six people. Her five daughters and her neighbor.

[Elena]

Holy shit.

[Ash]

Yeah. So frightened and kind of embarrassed.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Carolyn ushered everybody out of the room and back down to the kitchen where they all just kind of sat awkwardly, like nobody knew what to say. And before long, Mrs. Pettigrew was like, imma head out.

[Elena]

Imma leave.

[Ash]

Bye. So she was like, thanks so much for the coffee. Enjoy the cake. Take peace out. Carolyn walked her out and. But before Mrs. Pettigrew left, she turned and took Carolyn's hand and told her the Kenyans always kept the lights on overnight. All the lights every night.

[Elena]

That would me up. That would me.

[Ash]

For that to be the second comment about, like, you should keep your lights on it.

[Elena]

And just for, like, her to, like, take your hand and just be like, you know that wire hanger that just beat the. Out of you?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

The previous owners kept their lights on.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Maybe. Think about that.

[Ash]

Maybe you should do that. Like, no, maybe the wire hangers wouldn't

[Elena]

come for you, babe. Maybe not.

[Ash]

I don't know. Who's to say?

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

So then she just let go of Carolyn's hand, walked in the direction of her house, and quite literally never came back for another visit.

[Elena]

Honestly, I don't blame it.

[Ash]

She was like, that house is not for me.

[Elena]

Dogs rancid.

[Ash]

She said it's oral points are low.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

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[Ash]

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Doug]

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[Elena]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Doug]

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[Ash]

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[Ash]

So in the months that followed, the Perron family kind of just fell into a regular routine, living alongside whatever the fuck was in their house and doing their best to carry on while still enduring strange events and strange encounters. With Roger away most of the time, Carolyn and the girls were left to fend for themselves. And when he would return, there was always the inevitable disappointment when he refused to believe their stories of the haunting. Yeah, the experiences themselves were incredibly stressful, but Roger's skepticism seemed to make everything worse. According to Joe Nicholl, Carolyn came to feel as though she was being overtly challenged by Roger's disbelief, as though her opinion was entirely irrelevant, her recounting of events fraudulent.

[Elena]

Well, it would piss me off if John just straight up didn't believe me. I'd be like, okay, that sucks.

[Ash]

Yeah, I would be Very upset.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So the tension that grew between Roger and Carolyn acted as kind of a wedge between them and only pushed them farther apart from each other. And that was when Carolyn really needed a lot of support.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Things took a turn for the worse when, in the absence of her husband's emotional support, Carolyn turned to a neighbor, Sam, as a kind of confidant. There's no indication that their relationship was anything but platonic.

[Elena]

Thank you for that.

[Ash]

You betcha. No, Carolyn's a queen.

[Elena]

My, my. Like, my reality television show head just went.

[Ash]

And with that being said, Team Sierra.

[Elena]

Yeah, I don't even watch it in Team Sierra, period.

[Ash]

You're on the right side of history. So they were, like, platonic. But just the fact that his wife had started sharing her ghost stories with people outside of the house, and a man. Another man at that.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Felt kind of like a betrayal to Roger. But it's also like, I don't know, maybe believe your wife, Believe her.

[Elena]

Make her feel heard.

[Ash]

And all your kids are saying this too.

[Elena]

Exactly.

[Ash]

But through sharing her story, Carolyn finally started to feel some sense of support, and she also started moving towards finding some answers. Now, despite their growing inability to communicate with each other, Roger and Carolyn just kind of carried on their lives like there was nothing wrong in their relationship. It was the 70s, you know, when he was home, Roger was present. Not necessarily warm, but there. And his being home helped Carolyn feel a little bit safer. One night, a few years into their time at the house, Roger said, you know what? What? Why don't we get a babysitter? We'll go out for a date. Like, we need a little action here. So they went out. They had a nice night together. They got home a little after midnight. Roger thanked the babysitter, paid them. Carolyn went upstairs, checked in on the girls. Everything seemed normal. And then they went to bed. A few hours later, Carolyn was awoken by the sounds of footsteps near their door in her bedroom. She obviously assumed it was one of her five children. So she called out without opening her eyes, like, who is it? What can I do for you?

[Elena]

What you need?

[Ash]

What's up, girl? And she got no response. So she groggily opened her eyes and saw the grotesque figure of a woman standing before her, staring directly into her eyes from across the room.

[Elena]

That's so much worse than a kid.

[Ash]

Yeah. She was also completely paralyzed.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

And her eyes just rapidly scanned the entity in front of her, looking for any indication of what the it might want.

[Elena]

A grotesque woman.

[Ash]

Yeah. She said the age of the woman was Difficult to discern, but based on her outfit, she knew that she was not of a modern era. Her dress was a, quote, rusty green jersey, handmade, hand dyed fabric cinched at the waist with a belt. And her hairstyle was slightly more modern. It kind of looked like a beehive, but it wasn't as well coiffed because she's grotesque.

[Elena]

Presumably dead.

[Ash]

Yeah. Now, worst of all was the way that her body was contorted and twisted. Her neck seemed to have been snapped, causing her head to tilt at an unnatural angle.

[Elena]

Oh, I remember hearing this one.

[Ash]

And she stared, gray eyed and unblinking at Carolyn.

[Elena]

Ooh, isn't there? I seem to remember that there's like a drawing on like a wall or something that one of the kids did of that lady.

[Ash]

Yeah, it is. It's literally, it's, it's like silly, but it's scary because, you know, like what it results from.

[Elena]

That's up. Yeah.

[Ash]

And it was found on furniture like, like by new owners of the house later.

[Elena]

And it's just the lady with like her crazy bent neck.

[Ash]

Yeah, we'll take a. We'll put a picture in.

[Elena]

Yeah, that's scary.

[Ash]

In the, in the carousel on Instagram. At first, to Carolyn, cuz remember she just woke up out of nowhere to this. At first it seemed like this woman was like floating in the darkness. But once her eyes finally adjusted to the darkness, she could see that the woman wasn't floating. She was crouched inside of the bureau across the room. The doors flung open on both sides to reveal the full extent of Miss Girl's hideousness.

[Elena]

Of our Girly.

[Ash]

Yeah, like what the fuck?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

In her mind, Carolyn imagined herself shrieking. But no matter how loud she was yelling in her mind, nothing would come out of her mouth.

[Elena]

That's the worst.

[Ash]

So she watched in frozen terror as the woman thing at the other end of the room climbed out of the bureau and started slowly moving toward her in the dark.

[Elena]

Dark.

[Ash]

Finally feeling like the paralysis was slipping, she started kicking Roger. But the blows must have been too soft to register because stupid Roger didn't wake up. It was only when the thing was directly in front of her, one of its arms literally laying across her pillow, that she finally regained the functionality to move away from the thing and it started leaning its gray face towards hers. So she shot back against her headboard with such force that the metal of the headboard slammed into the wall. And she said it was so loud that it should have woken up everybody. But nobody came running, and Roger stayed asleep.

[Elena]

Holy shit.

[Ash]

To her surprise, the only person that did seem to respond to the noise of the clanging bed frame was the figure of the woman pressed as far back against the wall as she could be. She just watched in shock as the figure started to dissolve before her eyes, leaving behind a cloudy residue and a terrible odor.

[Elena]

Oh, everyone's so stinky.

[Ash]

Stank ass.

[Elena]

Why is everyone so stinky?

[Ash]

Girl, you stank. Take a bath.

[Elena]

What's going on?

[Ash]

I don't know. So terrified and wanting to get out of that room asap, she just scooped up her pillow and went to the living room to sleep on the couch. She was like, you know what?

[Elena]

She was like, I don't want to deal with this.

[Ash]

Yeah. She's like, you know what? Roger's probably not gonna believe me me if I tell him what just happened inches away from him. But there's no doubt in her mind their house was haunted. And whatever it was, it was not friendly. So in the days after the attack.

[Elena]

What's that? And stanky and stanky.

[Ash]

Not friendly and stanky. Horrible combination.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So in the days after the attack in the bedroom, the dam broke, and Carolyn started learning what her daughters were experiencing in the house. Andrea told her, I see shadows in my bedroom even when the moon is small in the dark. The other girls had experiences, too. Their bed shook in the middle of the night. Toys moved across the room. Shapeless figures stared at them from the dark corners. The worst was the way that the thing had approached Cindy, not as a menacing figure, but with tenderness. Cindy told her, mom, she loves me, Mom. She wants me to be friends with her.

[Elena]

Oh, my God. This sounds. That's very Amityville.

[Ash]

It really is. So Carolyn said that I gotta do something to protect myself and my babies. Roger's not gonna believe us, and he's not gonna, like, sell our house and move, even if he does.

[Elena]

So I need to figure out how to make this happen.

[Ash]

Exactly. So Mama. That's a mama. So she reached out to her good buddy, Platonic Sam, and told him, we love Platonic Sam. We do, too. She told him about the thing. And as they were talking, April looked up from the tv, pointed at the door to the cellar, and just said, something real bad happened in there. And then she turned back to the tv, like she hadn't just dropped that lore. Now, in case you weren't catching on, I'm just, like, making her swear because we started that bit, and it's funny,

[Elena]

but she literally was like, something real bad happened.

[Ash]

She said, something bad happened in there, and then Just, like, went back to the tv.

[Elena]

I'm not sure how I would recover from that. Like, there's a lot of things I can handle.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

That might be the moment I say, well, I guess. I guess we're camping out.

[Ash]

Like, no, no. I was literally just gonna say I might camp in nearby woods before I spent another night there.

[Elena]

Something real bad happened in there. Would me up on the level I can't describe. It makes me think of the Sixth Sense.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Elena]

That cabinet.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Elena]

And, like. And they lock them. Oh, I can't even think of that scene because that scene. That scene scared the. The voice in that cabinet, the growl. Oh, my God.

[Ash]

No, I hate it.

[Elena]

That just makes me think of it.

[Ash]

I hate it. Guys, do you know that Mikey's never seen the Sixth Sense?

[Elena]

He doesn't know.

[Ash]

He doesn't know. We should show you that.

[Elena]

We saw such a good movie, but

[Ash]

it's so fucked up.

[Elena]

We gotta show you.

[Ash]

So shocked by the statement, Carolyn and Sam were like, okay. Given everything we know, the cellar seems like the most obvious source of the haunting. So Sam headed out because he was like, wow, this place is freaky. As. But I burped. He agreed that he would do some research and get back to her.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

Okay. Finally, a few weeks later, he returned, and among other things, he had looked into whether there was, like, a legal loophole that might get them out of the mortgage. I realized I said loophole.

[Elena]

Weird. I was like, are we letting that just fly by or are we.

[Ash]

No, I didn't want to re. Say it, but I realized I said it. Weird.

[Elena]

Loophole. Loophole. There might be a legal loophole.

[Ash]

My nose is, like, popping. I don't know. So in some states, if the seller had withheld any pertinent information from the buyer at the time of the sale, that could nullify by the contract. Unfortunately, that's not the case in Rhode island, or at least it wasn't back then. Carolyn shared the information with Roger when he got back from another work trip, but he was just not interested in hearing it. Andrea said he wasn't having the same experience as we were having. And when he did come home exhausted, the last thing he wanted to hear was my mother saying, roger, I think we have ghosts. I mean, yeah, but, like, come on.

[Elena]

Come on, man.

[Ash]

Come on, Raj.

[Elena]

Come on, Raj.

[Ash]

Now, years passed, and the women in the parent house continued to be attacked and terrified by all manner of. Of scary, while Roger just remained free of any harassment. I don't know if they were just like, he's not worth it. He's not here.

[Elena]

They're like, he doesn't care. So, yeah, that's not fun.

[Ash]

I feel like that would be fun. I'd him up if I was.

[Elena]

I know. I'd be like, I'm gonna make you believe.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah. So in time, Carolyn continued looking for an explanation. Or in that time, she continued looking for an explanation for the experiences. And one day, she found it in an old story once shared by the locals, but mostly forgotten by the time that they had moved into the town. She'd been visiting a local general store, and she was chit chatting with the owner, a lifelong local named Fran. Because that's what a lifeline lifelong, lifelong local is named.

[Elena]

Oh, hell yeah. I mean, in. I'm pretty sure in Gilmore Girls, there's a lifelong local name. Fran.

[Ash]

Yeah, there is a lifelong local name.

[Elena]

She owns a bakery.

[Ash]

Say lifelong local five times lifelong local.

[Elena]

That's hard.

[Ash]

Five times.

[Elena]

That's. I don't think I can do it.

[Ash]

Yeah, I don't blame you.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So she's chit chatting with Fran, and she finds herself telling Fran about, you know, you tell Fran whatever you need to.

[Elena]

Oh, you tell Fran everybody everything.

[Ash]

Exactly. So she's like, hey, I was attacked by a ghost woman in my house recently.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah, Fran's gonna take that. She's gonna.

[Ash]

No, she literally.

[Elena]

She'll know what to do.

[Ash]

To Carolyn's surprise, Fran knew something about the house that nobody had ever told the family. It had once been the home of a woman named Bathsheba Sherman, and her neighbors believed that she was a witch.

[Elena]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Ash]

I'm obsessed.

[Elena]

Let's go.

[Ash]

According to local legend, Bathsheba had been a member of the Arnold family who lived in the house all those years ago. And she was said to be in league with the devil and had sacrificed. Sacrificed a child to Satan in exchange for power.

[Elena]

Oh, she's a yucky one.

[Ash]

No, no. When she was arrested, Bathsheba claimed that the child died in an accident. In an accident. And the case was dismissed. But still, the rumors persisted around town and she became an outcast, left alone in her house to her black magic.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

It was this, Fran suggested, that was likely the source of the haunting. If the stories were true and Bathsheba had, in fact, sacrificed a child, surely an act so evil would leave a permanent stain on the land and the house. Oh, hell yeah, it would. And while there was literally no evidence to support that belief, Carolyn said, yeah, I bet that happened at my house.

[Elena]

I mean, here's the Thing. There's a lot of going on in that house. And then the kid's saying something bad happened in there.

[Ash]

She wants to be my friend.

[Elena]

All the stinky fart smells, all the, you know, the scythes getting thrown at you. Yeah, I might sit. I might. That might be my first thought, too. Is like, you know what? I bet somebody did do some up like that.

[Ash]

Oh, I would absolutely think so.

[Elena]

I'd be like that. That's enough evidence for me.

[Ash]

I'd take it.

[Elena]

So.

[Ash]

Knowing the potential origin of the haunting was one thing, but that still didn't help Carolyn solve the problem. They still had to live there. Then one day in early fall of 1973, help came from an unexpected place. By then, Carolyn had been pretty open with a lot of people at that point about what was happening in the house, including a friend who recently attended a lecture by paranormal investigators. Say it with me now. Ed and Lorraine Warren.

[Elena]

Oh, I've never heard of them.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

Are they. Are they well known?

[Ash]

Yeah, they're like, people know about them.

[Elena]

Are they good at what they do?

[Ash]

They are. Nobody can argue that they're good at what they do.

[Elena]

Are they charlatans, perhaps?

[Ash]

Oh, my God. That word literally gets used later.

[Elena]

Holy shit.

[Ash]

Listen to you. So, yeah, maybe, maybe so. At the time, the Warrens actually hadn't really reached the level of notoriety that they have now. That they really came to notoriety after Amityville, I think.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah. Then they became the Warrens.

[Ash]

Exactly. They were not the Warrens at that point. They were just Ed and Lorraine Warren. They were like, look at these adorable couple.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So they were also easily accessible at this point. And they lived close by because they lived. I think they lived in Rhode Island.

[Elena]

Oh, they got in on the ground floor.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And Lorraine.

[Ash]

Carolyn did. So she placed a call to the couple, and they agreed. They said, hell, yeah, I'll come down to your house. So they toured the house. They reviewed the notes and the research that Carolyn had pulled together. And after doing so, Lorraine Warren agreed that there was definitely an evil presence living amongst them.

[Elena]

I mean, I'm with her on that same, you know.

[Ash]

After hearing the story about Bathsheba, Lorraine informed the parents that it was she who was the, quote, lone demonic presence in the house. And all the other paranormal activity was drawn to her or commanded by her. Oh, so grateful that somebody was finally taking her plight seriously. A wave of relief washed over Carolyn when Lorraine not only believed her, but also said, hey, I think we can help you here.

[Elena]

Oh, hell, yeah.

[Ash]

Unfortunately, what Carolyn thought was a story shared in confidence. Soon turned out to be anything but. Ed and Lorraine definitely would do their best to help the family, but they also would create a public spectacle that would benefit them more than the parents.

[Elena]

Yeah. And at that point, there was no knowledge of their wily ways with the media. Yeah.

[Ash]

So before Carolyn even knew what was happening, there were strangers showing up outside of her house all the time to get a look at the haunted house. Every few days, ghost hunters were arriving at the door, offering their services. One ghost hunter included a man who insisted that he could solve the problem with only one tool of the trade in his hand. His holy Bible.

[Elena]

I don't think you can do that.

[Ash]

He didn't. It was only later that Carolyn and Roger found out that in between their first meeting and their last one, Ed and Lorraine shared their story at an unknown number of lectures given around New England.

[Elena]

Oh, Ed and Lorraine.

[Ash]

So they were just like, hey, this address in Harris. Harrisburg or Harrisdale. Yeah. This place in fucking Rhode Island.

[Elena]

Go see it.

[Ash]

Check it out. In October, Ed and Lorraine came back to the house for what Carolyn was told would be a seance months. But what turned out to be what Joe Nickel described as part of a ghost hunting session with lots of cumbersome equipment and part intended exorcism, including in addition to a medium shaman, holy woman, and a parapsychologist and also a priest.

[Elena]

Whoa.

[Ash]

So she was like, I thought we were just having a seance. Who are all these people?

[Elena]

Yeah. I thought we were just sitting around with some candles.

[Ash]

Yeah. So she was scared about Roger's reaction initially. So she didn't tell him about the. The seance.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

Until the Warrens got there to perform, said seance.

[Elena]

Oh, babe.

[Ash]

And Roger was livid. Yeah.

[Elena]

I mean, here's the thing.

[Ash]

You got to inform everybody.

[Elena]

I, too, would be pissed if a seance was occurring without my knowledge.

[Ash]

Yeah. But he was in my house, the seance. So I get both sides.

[Elena]

He would. That's the thing. I understand that she didn't want to say anything because he would have been like, we're not doing a seance.

[Ash]

And she needed to do a seance

[Elena]

and you need to do a seance. But I can understand. And I would also be aggravated if.

[Ash]

It's complicated if people.

[Elena]

If Ed and Lorraine Warren showed up at my house with seance accouterment. Yeah. And like, a whole entourage of seance of, like, seance people and, like, holy men and women.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Just unannounced. And John was like, I might have set this Up.

[Ash]

I don't like unexpected.

[Elena]

I'd be like, sick idea. Yeah. But you have to tell me ahead of time.

[Ash]

I don't even like when solar panel

[Elena]

people show up at my house unexpectedly.

[Ash]

So I got it.

[Elena]

I don't like any of that, you know?

[Ash]

So he was pissed, but he was like, okay, do your seance at least.

[Elena]

He was like, do your seance. Yeah.

[Ash]

But he was.

[Elena]

He was pretty pissed about it.

[Ash]

So. Over the course of the evening, Ed and Lorraine, with the help of all of their entourage, guided Carolyn through a ritual cleansing intended to drive Bathsheba out of the house. Huh. During the cleansing, Carolyn started mumbling incoherently. And a, quote, low pitched guttural utterance emerged from deep within her being as her. Her quaking body trembled in place.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

Yeah. Lots was going on.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

After lots of shouting, prayer, and exorcism of what they were told was the demon that had entered Carolyn's body, Roger had had enough. And he tried to intervene in what he thought was a hoax. But when he stepped forward, Ed tried to pull away from the exorcism, tried to pull him away. And that caused Roger to whip around and punch Ed directly in the face. Face. Dropping him down to the ground. Bam. And went down. Roger. Super.

[Elena]

I'll send you a copy.

[Ash]

Yeah. So seeing her husband bleeding from the face.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

Lorraine ran to his side and started wiping the blood. And Roger used the break and the chaos to demand that everybody get the. Out of his house. Yeah.

[Elena]

He said, this is getting crazy.

[Ash]

And with that, the seance came to an end.

[Elena]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

Now, in her memoirs, Andrea Perrin recalled her father's demeanor after the Warrens and the others left that night. She said he bitterly resented the intrusion, the theatrical farce of pseudo intellectual endeavor. He also called the entire scene ritual and ritualistic nonsense and shouted at his wife. Do you realize you're being played by a pair of two bit charlatans?

[Elena]

Charlatans.

[Ash]

I told you.

[Elena]

I mean, that's. You shouldn't yell at your wife.

[Ash]

You shouldn't yell at your wife. But what he said was a little bit.

[Elena]

Was he correct? Maybe, but I didn't.

[Ash]

Like, like, that's not nice, but like, whatever, Roger.

[Elena]

Because obviously something is going on in this house.

[Ash]

If she's that desperate to get rid of it. Exactly.

[Elena]

And these kids are feeling it. The kids are saying, shit. She's a mama's going down. She's a mama trying to help her children.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

I'm team Carolyn.

[Ash]

Me too.

[Elena]

Thank you.

[Ash]

Now, at the time, his behavior and his perspective seemed unwarranted. But as an adult now, Andrea kind of gets where he was coming from, given the circumstances. According to her later in life, Roger, quote, admitted that he didn't want to believe his wife because he didn't want to think that he had put his family in a perilous situation with the purchase of the house.

[Elena]

I wondered if there was some like, guilt, I think so, going on there and. And also that he's not home a

[Ash]

lot to protect them. So I definitely think he doesn't want

[Elena]

to believe that there's any kind of danger that's happening that he can't be around to help.

[Ash]

Right. He probably like put it out of his head and. And just got.

[Elena]

He's just not reacting in a way that is telling us that, yeah, it's

[Ash]

the 70s, he's a man. What's he to do?

[Elena]

What's he to do?

[Ash]

So after the seance, things did seem to calm down in the house, but the activity never did stop completely. They kept living in the house until 1980, when they finally decided it was time to move. Andrea said, my mother told my father she would not survive another winter in that house. She'd been under attack in that house for 10 years.

[Elena]

Damn, you must be tired after that.

[Ash]

Yeah. In the decades since they moved out, other people have lived in the house and nobody's reported supernatural activity that that's lived there. Non supernatural harassment, on the other hand, has been occurring regularly since the parents story was made public, reaching a peak with The Conjuring in 2013. That movie that was released, I don't know if you've heard of it. According to former homeowner Norma Sutcliffe, she and her husband were, quote, plagued by a conjuring instigated siege of their property. That's included countless harassing phone calls and people just randomly showing up at their house house, which is shitty.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

As for Andrea, who has now had decades to consider her own experiences and her family's experiences, she kind of lands somewhere in between skeptic Joe Nickel and true believers Ed and Lorraine Warren.

[Elena]

Okay.

[Ash]

She definitely believes that the house was haunted, but when it comes to the cause, she's not sure.

[Elena]

Yeah, I could see that.

[Ash]

The release of the film based loosely on her family's experiences prompted a significant interest too, in the legend of Bathsheba Sherman, who Andrea and local historians now believe was unfairly maligned.

[Elena]

Oh, Bathsheba.

[Ash]

Yeah. Not only by history, but also by the Warrens. In a recent interview, Andrea said essentially Bathsheba copped The blame for everything evil. And it simply wasn't the case. Not long after moving out of the house, Carolyn and Roger divorced and they went their separate ways. But they both did their best to maintain positive relationships with their kids.

[Elena]

That's good.

[Ash]

And they occasionally appear in media relating to the. To the haunting. But they live their lives mostly out of the spotlight.

[Elena]

Oh, good for them.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

I'm glad they live. They kind of just separated from it.

[Ash]

Yeah, me too. I think it was for the best.

[Elena]

And I really do believe that this was like. I do. I think Roger reacted great in all those circles.

[Ash]

No, it was a little poor.

[Elena]

But I do think Andrea, like the daughter is correct, that it probably was a lot of guilt.

[Ash]

Yeah. An underlying guilt thing for sure. I want to go to the conjuring house so badly.

[Elena]

I want you to.

[Ash]

Corinne and Sabrina and they said. I know. I forgot about that.

[Elena]

John got me tickets to go there and have a medium there that would have been sick for our anniversary.

[Ash]

And then he had to go and get vertigo.

[Elena]

And then he got a horrible case of vertigo.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And we couldn't go.

[Ash]

You and I should have gone.

[Elena]

I know. On our. On my anniversary.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

He honestly wanted us. He probably would have said so. Yeah. That's my story of the conjuring house. But yeah. Corinne and Sabrina spent the night there.

[Ash]

Yeah. I forget what they said. I remember they said it was definitely like they felt some. Yeah. Yeah.

[Elena]

I want to go, but I think I don't. Can you go now?

[Ash]

Yeah. It leads you to like a weird empty page.

[Elena]

So. Yeah, I think you can go. If you look on the Google page, like the home page way. Yeah. When you search it, it says closed temporarily.

[Ash]

Well, temporarily. Yeah, at least there's that.

[Elena]

I would like to go.

[Ash]

I want to go. Maybe we'll go.

[Elena]

But yeah, that's crazy.

[Ash]

It is. What a tail by it. But I love haunted episodes. They're so much fun.

[Elena]

I love hauntings. I know they're horrifying for the people

[Ash]

who live through them, but I. I love hearing them.

[Elena]

I really love hearing the stories of haunting.

[Ash]

So, guys, we hope that you love us and we hope that you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you also don't love hauntings.

[Elena]

Yeah. Love hauntings things.

[Ash]

Love them.

[Elena]

Cuz it's almost spooky season.

[Ash]

Oh my God. We're so close.

[Elena]

We're so close. We're out of winter. That means it's spooky season.

[Ash]

Only like five and a half months.

[Elena]

Oh, that's Nothing. Zero. Less than half a year.

[Ash]

All right, party.

[Elena]

We're here. It's Halloween.

[Doug]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Ash]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Doug]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Elena]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

[Doug]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Ash]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

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