The Valley’s Tom Schwartz on Conflict Avoidance and Reinvention

Summary

More Life with Carl Radke

Episode: The Valley’s Tom Schwartz on Conflict Avoidance and Reinvention
Air Date: May 19, 2026
Host: Carl Radke
Guest: Tom Schwartz (Vanderpump Rules, The Valley)

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Episode Overview

In this rich, candid episode, Carl Radke sits down with Tom Schwartz—reality TV staple, entrepreneur, and podcast host—to discuss personal transformation, navigating public relationships and conflict, reinvention, vulnerability, and the enduring importance of friendship. Together, they reflect on life during and after reality TV marriages, the value of late blooming, challenges of sobriety and loss, and what it means to choose growth every day. The conversation is informal, full of warmth and self-deprecating humor, making it as relatable as it is revealing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reality TV Crossovers & Bar Business Advice

[01:29-03:54]

• The episode opens live from Carl’s Soft Bar, with Tom gushing over the space and brand details, recognizing Carl’s intentionality.
• Carl credits Tom for practical advice he shared during Soft Bar’s early days:
  • “Make sure you have a clear plan... Get the 3D rendering... know where every plug's gonna be.” (Tom Schwartz, [02:54])
• They joke about the pitfalls of naming bars after yourself, referencing Schwartz & Sandy’s:
  • “Maybe I knew we were doomed when we put our names.” (Tom Schwartz, [03:50])

2. Bravo Memories & Inter-Show Friendships

[04:13-08:32]

• Carl and Tom reminisce about their Bravo family crossovers, including early encounters with cast members from Vanderpump Rules and Summer House.
• Tom recounts an infamous “liminal” late-night ER experience during a Summer House visit, illustrating the behind-the-scenes realities of reality TV.
• The pair discuss the intense “surveillance” feeling from Summer House filming:
  • “That’s a powerful word. And that's kind of how it feels. It's unnerving.” (Tom Schwartz, [07:28])
• Tom shares how anxiety in the house and the lack of real-life comforts like TVs put him on edge.

3. Mantras, Career Pivots, and Taking Leaps

[11:22-13:04]

• Carl asks about Tom’s mantras. Tom shares:
  • “Better a life of Ohs than what ifs.” ([11:42])
  • Reflects on leaving his Florida job to pursue acting in LA (“I would have regretted it the rest of my life.” [11:55])
• Tom discusses college ambivalence, his father's dreams for him (“My dad's dream was for me to be a baseball player.” [13:22]), and the conviction it took to finally move to LA.

4. The Origins of Vanderpump & Living with Fame

[14:13-18:29]

• Tom moved to LA in 2009, meeting Tom Sandoval via Craigslist, describing the serendipity and gratitude for the friends who rooted him.
• He never planned on reality TV (“I was kind of a low-key hater... If I was going to be on reality tv, it would forever compromise my artistic integrity.” [16:44])
• They discuss the evolution of reality TV stardom, and Andy Cohen’s role:
  • “Just to do it once is a gift from God... Andy Cohen... I still get starstruck on him.” (Tom Schwartz, [18:14-18:29])

5. Reinvention After Divorce & Loss of Identity

[19:00-22:36]; [24:25-25:35]

• Tom expresses growing pains transitioning from Vanderpump to The Valley—“I felt like I lost my identity for a while.” ([21:28])
• On post-divorce and saying goodbye to the “white picket fence” dream:
  • “Everything that was Tom Schwartz that I knew... just sort of like dissipated.” ([22:15])
• Carl commiserates: “Some of the things that occurred over the last four or five years... have been really difficult... but they've all kind of steered me closer to where I feel like I'm supposed to be.” ([24:34])
• They reassure listeners that age doesn’t guarantee having it all figured out:
  • “You might not have it all figured out when you hit 40. And... that's okay...” (Tom Schwartz, [25:20])

6. Conflict, Communication, and Personal Growth

[28:44-31:16]; [36:48-37:32]

• Tom reflects on his marriage:
  • “Sometimes I look back and I'm like, did I fail that marriage? ... I was just kind of a putz.” ([28:50])
  • Realizes he was “such an avoidant person,” preferring to run away from conflict (“I would like run away, if not literally, internally.” [29:12])
• Both Carl and Tom note how reality TV exposes flaws—especially conflict avoidance and communication missteps—and their resolve to become better listeners and communicators.
• On becoming a “side character in another person’s movie” during public scandal:
  • “All of my Schwartzness, like, was stripped away and people were, like, trying to, like, nail me on, like, timelines and stuff.” (Tom Schwartz, [36:48])

7. Late Bloomers, Parenthood, and Hopes for the Future

[32:00-34:33]

• Tom discusses his late-30s/early 40s reflections:
  • “I never thought I would be in my 40s and not have the white picket fence.”
  • Both hosts discuss yearning for family but feeling at peace as late bloomers.
• Tom hopes being an “older dad” will allow him to be more present and financially secure, should that happen.

8. Humility, Friendship, and Support Systems

[34:38-36:13]

• The hosts praise their friends (special shoutouts to Jesse from The Valley and Tom’s girlfriend Kiana), noting how crucial friendship and humility are to lasting happiness.
• Tom is open about struggling with feeling like a late bloomer, but Carl reminds him:
  • “Nothing wrong with being a late bloomer.” ([31:16])

9. Navigating Sobriety, Grief, & Family Addiction

[39:04-42:03]

• Carl and Tom reveal the challenge of supporting siblings with addiction, and the unique pain of dealing with family struggles in the public eye.
• Tom’s perspective on addiction:
  • “I didn’t realize like how nasty addiction is... You're enslaved by the drug.” ([41:00])
• Both express more compassion and mindfulness as a result of these struggles.

10. Sober Curiosity & Supportive Friendships

[43:08-44:08]

• Tom credits Lala Kent and Carl for changing his outlook:
  • “I think Lala was like a personification of someone's human's capability to still be fun, outgoing... while not drinking.” ([43:38])

11. What’s Next? Reinvention and Purpose

[44:39-46:10]

• Tom wants to move into health and wellness, expand his podcast (Detox Retox), and might “have one last bar in me.”
• Both hosts agree their podcasts keep them engaged, learning, and outward-looking.
• On teamwork and not going it alone:
  • “It’s being smart enough to get out of the way and allowing people to do what they’re really good at doing...” (Carl Radke, [47:48])

12. What’s Giving You More Life?

[46:39-47:15]

• Tom: “Honestly, right now, in this moment, my girlfriend. Shout out to Kiana... New York City... just being here chilling with you, Carl.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On taking leaps:
  • “Better a life of Ohs than what ifs.” — Tom Schwartz ([11:42])
• On anxiety of reality TV:
  • “That’s a powerful word. And that's kind of how it feels. It's unnerving.” — Tom Schwartz ([07:28])
• On late blooming:
  • “You might not have it all figured out when you hit 40. And, like, you might... but maybe you're completely unfulfilled... it's okay.” — Tom Schwartz ([25:20])
• On loss of identity post-breakup:
  • “Everything that was Tom Schwartz that I knew... just sort of like dissipated...” — Tom Schwartz ([22:15])
• On conflict avoidance:
  • “I used to be such an avoidant person. I would like run away, if not literally, internally.” — Tom Schwartz ([29:12])
• On addiction empathy:
  • “I didn’t realize like how nasty addiction is... You're enslaved by the drug.” — Tom Schwartz ([41:00])
• On supportive friendships:
  • “I think Lala was like a personification of someone's human's capability to still be fun... while not drinking.” — Tom Schwartz ([43:38])
• On reinvention:
  • “It's scary. I'm like on the cusp of completely reinventing myself, I think. I mean, I'm always going to be Tom, but, like, professionally, I'm going in a completely different direction.” — Tom Schwartz ([24:25])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Carl & Tom meet at Soft Bar / Advice on Bar Biz: [01:29-03:54]
• Bravo Show Crossovers & Anxiety of ‘Surveillance’: [04:13-08:32]
• Tom’s Mantra & Risk-taking Philosophy: [11:22-13:04]
• LA Move, Origins of Vanderpump: [14:13-18:29]
• Navigating Divorce, Loss, and Identity: [19:00-22:36]; [24:25-25:35]
• Conflict-Avoidance Revelations: [28:44-31:16]; [36:48-37:32]
• Late Bloomers, Family & Fatherhood: [32:00-34:33]
• Addiction, Sobriety, and Friendship: [39:04-44:08]
• Looking Ahead—Reinvention and Wellbeing Focus: [44:39-46:10]
• “More Life” Moment: [46:39-47:15]

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Tone & Style

The episode is warm, self-effacing, reflective, and unfiltered—equal parts fun and candid. Both Carl and Tom invite listeners to laugh at hardships, learn from mistakes, and embrace the unpredictable arc of personal growth. Their camaraderie and shared Bravo history ground the tougher moments, making the conversation welcoming and real for anyone navigating change or feeling a little lost.

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For More Life with Carl Radke, this is a must-listen episode for Bravo fans and anyone ready to embrace messy, brave, everyday reinvention.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Tom Schwartz]

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[Carl Radke]

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[Tom Schwartz]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Carl Radke]

Hey, guys, I'm Carl Radke and welcome to More Life. Today on the show we've got Tom Schwartz. Yes, Tom Schwartz. You know him from Vanderpump Rules. He is also on the Valley, which has a new season out right now. It is awesome. It's amazing. Great tv. But Tom is a podcaster. He's got Detox Retox. He's a business owner. I'm excited to dive into this chat today, guys. We're coming live today from Soft bar here in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, Tom Schwartz.

[Commercial Announcer]

Hi, brother.

[Carl Radke]

Welcome in, my man.

[Tom Schwartz]

Dude, before we get started, can I just give you your flowers? This place is so tasteful. I walked in, I've seen the pictures, but now seeing it in person, not just seeing it, but feeling it, it's so beautifully.

[Carl Radke]

Thank you, man.

[Tom Schwartz]

Executed.

[Carl Radke]

I appreciate you.

[Tom Schwartz]

The branding, everything. Like, I noticed, like just the stools.

[Carl Radke]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

I don't know what material the bar top is, but I love it.

[Carl Radke]

It was a custom concrete that we had poured specifically and colored for our soft bar. Green.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

But one of my favorite little Easter eggs is like my logo. Soft with the big bar.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

And on our van out front, which it was our first location, I joke around the long green bar. We have the long green bar in the bar. So, like there's little Easter eggs of like that intention of the logos and the brand.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

That kind of shines through a little bit in the space, but very intention. I remember reaching out to you because, listen, man, you know a thing or two about a bar and opening one up.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

I remember reaching out to you and you gave me some incredible advice. It was the summer of 2024 and I remember telling Kyle I'm like, dude, we should get up Schwartz to come to the house next weekend. And we started, like, just saying it out loud. And believe it or not, you came to the house next weekend. And. And I remember pulling you aside and be like, can you give me some advice about opening this bar? And you were like, make sure you have a clear plan. Cause I think when you and Tom kind of got started, you had a plan. And then midstream, some of the designs, some of that.

[Tom Schwartz]

We had a general vision. We had the 2D rendering, but not the 3D rendering. Get the 3D rendering. I was like, know where every plug's gonna be? Like, really put a lot of thought into this. We had the vision, the dream. Just, it made for so many easily avoidable mistakes along the way and ended up costing us so much money.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah. And for here, like, we had a pretty clear plan going in. But what was beautiful is we had this vision that we stuck to. I was able to from the beginning of construction till the day we opened. It was about six months, which because of that clear plan, we didn't really double back. One other recommendation, maybe you said this or other people have said it, but don't name your bar after yourself.

[Tom Schwartz]

I mean, unless you're Lisa Vanderpump.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, you can get away with.

[Tom Schwartz]

Or Gordon Ramsay.

[Carl Radke]

I still think Schwartz and Sandy's is a good name.

[Tom Schwartz]

Honestly, I think it was a great name. Maybe I was a little too hard on it, but, like, maybe.

[Carl Radke]

What were the other workshop? I watched your show. I love your show, but maybe I'm clairvoyant.

[Tom Schwartz]

Maybe I knew we were doomed when

[Carl Radke]

we put our names. Yeah, but we're gonna get into your virtue signaling on some other stuff here in this conversation today.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm not gonna Captain Hindsight, you guys, but.

[Carl Radke]

Well, Schwartz, thanks for being here. I wanna get into some stuff. Dude, congrats on the Valley. Yeah, I love your Valley crew. You guys were out at my book signing in the Grove. Yes, Tom Schwartz hosted my book signing. He was an amazing moderator. Thank you for doing that, dude.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thank you. That's really sweet. And I was so honored that you asked me.

[Carl Radke]

No, it was special because I've known you for almost 10 years now. I remember when we first did season one of Summer House. We were just talking about that before we started, which is the crossover. Katie, Sheena, Kristen Stassi, the. They come out to the summer house. Kyle and I didn't really know who the hell they were. I remember Stassi talking about working at a restaurant. I Was kind of like looking at Kyle like, these girls work at a restaurant. I was such an asshole. And then Kylo famously gets in the hot tub with Stassi and calls her Steve Jobs.

[Tom Schwartz]

I remember that like, it was yesterday.

[Carl Radke]

Iconic. But season two, you and Katie came and visited.

[Tom Schwartz]

We did.

[Carl Radke]

And I'll never forget this trip because we were so excited you guys were coming.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

But you had been, I think, in Mexico. Previously. Tom Schwartz went to the hospital in the Hamptons. They didn't really cover this. Too hardcore on the show.

[Tom Schwartz]

They touched on it a little bit. They alluded to it. I don't think they used the medical terms. And I don't even know if you. If we want to revisit that.

[Carl Radke]

We don't have to if you don't want to, but if you can just give us, like a. A small little.

[Tom Schwartz]

Let me think about it. Do I even want to say it out loud?

[Carl Radke]

It's okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

It just. Perineal abscess.

[Carl Radke]

And that was from, like, Montezuma's Revenge in Mexico, I think so.

[Tom Schwartz]

It will come from a variety of reasons, but, yeah, like, put pushing, too. We don't get into it.

[Carl Radke]

If it makes you feel any better, a fair amount of us at the summer house have been to that hospital that you went to.

[Tom Schwartz]

Okay. So I learned a new term, shout out to my girlfriend, Kiana. She taught me a term called liminal.

[Carl Radke]

Liminal.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's like kind of backrooms, scary, kind of uncanny valley. Am I articulating it right?

[Carl Radke]

I'm looking for a validation. Yeah, but she's not giving you the validation.

[Tom Schwartz]

Listen, not that it was the people there weren't lovely, but, like, we went there after midnight, and it felt very backrooms, very liminal. And I was going in there very insecure, knowing that people were gonna be probing my butt. And as luck had it. Or not luck.

[Carl Radke]

Wait, hold on a sec.

[Tom Schwartz]

Was that a Freudian slip?

[Carl Radke]

Freudian?

[Tom Schwartz]

No. No, it was not. No, I was. It was very unfortunate that although the guy who was inspecting me was lovely, he just had massive hands and he had. Let's start this interview over. No.

[Carl Radke]

So good. Okay. Well, nonetheless, it was really uncomfortable, man.

[Tom Schwartz]

I've never experienced anything like that in my life. And it just. I was in true pain. Like, agonizing pain.

[Carl Radke]

All right, we're going to get into the rest of this interview, but I love you for sharing that. I just had to cross that because I feel like that's such a great moment for you guys when you would come support us. We had so much fun but then, obviously you had a tough time, but you still were our trooper. You still showed up.

[Tom Schwartz]

I had so much fun.

[Carl Radke]

You still had a good time.

[Tom Schwartz]

Genuinely, Carl, you guys treated me. You guys welcomed me with open arms.

[Carl Radke]

I feel like you would almost be nothing against your west coast crew, but I feel like you're a better fit over here.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thanks, dude.

[Carl Radke]

That's just my personal feel. And speaking of, I've always thought this, and I think Stassi might have said this or forget who it was over the years, maybe. Sheena, do you think the Valley cast would film if it was like Summerhouse being filmed with cameras in their houses? Cameras, you know, bedrooms. Cameras in the.

[Tom Schwartz]

Interesting.

[Carl Radke]

Surveillance. I often contend. Well, the only two shows on Bravo that are filmed this way are Below Deck and Summerhouse. I often contend if the Valley or Vanderpump was done in that fashion, you guys would be like, fuck this. I'm not doing it. Because it's, like, so invasive.

[Tom Schwartz]

You said it perfectly. Did you use the word surveillance?

[Carl Radke]

Surveillance.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's a powerful word. And that's kind of how it feels. It's unnerving. Although you guys make it like, I love you guys so much and you're so cool to me and so welcoming and loving that the fact that we're being surveilled 247 sort of dissipates. You know what I mean?

[Carl Radke]

Well, I mean, talk me through that first time you came to the house and you saw, like, you're like.

[Tom Schwartz]

It was unsettling.

[Carl Radke]

And even for a guy who'd been on four or five seasons of reality

[Tom Schwartz]

tv, at that point, I was essentially a pro. At that point, I seasoned and it was very intimidating. I'm like, so the only safe place, not even the pantry anymore?

[Carl Radke]

No. They put a camera in the pantry.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's an old school reference.

[Carl Radke]

You know your stuff, brother.

[Tom Schwartz]

But the bathrooms are the only safe place.

[Carl Radke]

And they can still hear you.

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh, my God. They can hear your.

[Carl Radke]

Your pee stream.

[Tom Schwartz]

One thing that I. I don't think I ever talked about, I. I remember at that time, I don't really get anxiety anymore, thank God or universe or whoever, but I used to really struggle with anxiety. And the first thing that I started to low key panic about, I was like, I can't sleep without the TV on. I need the TV on. And you guys can't sleep with the TV.

[Carl Radke]

We don't have TVs in the house.

[Tom Schwartz]

You can't play anything that's not cleared.

[Carl Radke]

I asked the producer, season one, why don't we have A TV in the house. And he looked at me like I was dumb. And he's like, carl, it's not interesting to watch you guys watch tv. I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense because I want to, like, put on a baseball game on Sunday when we had like, nothing to do for a minute. He's like, no. I'm like, why?

[Tom Schwartz]

No?

[Carl Radke]

It's like, that's like, it's not interesting to watch that. We're going to get into this. I don't know about you guys, but the weather starts turning, the spring is springing, it's getting a little warmer outside, and I'm starting to look at my wardrobe. I've got all these sweaters, I've got all these sweatpants, I've got sweatshirts, I've got all these warm weather things that I need. And I need to get myself back outside because I want to start running. I want to get outside with my friends, I want to have fun. And. And guess what? I need to upgrade my wardrobe. I need to get some new things. And when you get new items, it allows you to feel good about going outside. And I want to go work out now because I've got all these fun items to wear. So when I signed up as a new VIP with Fabletics, I got 70 to 80% off everything. It made it so easy to grab activewear sets, lounge pieces without overthinking it. The quality honestly surprised me. Soft, breathable, it feels like premium stuff without the premium price tag. And I love how versatile it is. I'll throw on a matching set for my workout and I'll keep it on for the rest of the day. And quick heads up too. With nurses week coming up, Fabletics actually has scrubs and new VIPs can grab a scrub set for just $15. So if you've got a healthcare provider in your life, that's a really solid offer. Shop [e-mail] RadKey to get 70 to 80% off everything when you sign up as a new VIP. Take a quick style quiz and be sure to select Radkey when prompted to unlock this offer. This is a limited time offer, so don't wait again. That's fabletics.com radkey for 70 to 80% off everything as a new VIP ready

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[Carl Radke]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Carl Radke]

I know our audience is like, carl, why didn't you get this podcast started?

[Tom Schwartz]

Okay, cool.

[Carl Radke]

Just so you know, Tom, this podcast is called More Life.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

And it's a question that I ask all my guests because it's something that I love to say and it's something I've embodied and kind of a mantra. I'm curious, does Tom Schwartz have anything you blurt out to your friends, your family, drunken sober?

[Tom Schwartz]

First thing that pops to mind. It might seem like a little trite, and I think it might actually be from Dr. Seuss, but is probably better a life of OLS than what ifs.

[Carl Radke]

Better life of OLS than what ifn? And that's a Seuss quote.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's a mantra. It's a motto. It's just, I know that if I never would have resigned from my job, I worked for a distributor in Florida, if I would have never resigned from my job and made that leap of faith, no clue how I was gonna afford to live here. I knew nobody in la. But if I would've never done that and taken a shot at acting, I would've regretted it the rest of my life. Even if I moved back in a year after I moved to LA or 2.

[Carl Radke]

I wish you took the chance.

[Tom Schwartz]

Just take that chance. You know what I mean?

[Carl Radke]

Well, let me just. For people who may not be familiar with Tom Schwartz, I know you very well, consider you a good friend. I've loved watching you guys. I've seen you put a lot out there, ups and downs. But before you got on Vanderpump, you said you were working at an alcohol distributor. Right.

[Tom Schwartz]

So I went to fsu.

[Carl Radke]

Shout out to the F. Shout out to the. The Knolls.

[Tom Schwartz]

F O O R I D A S T A T E. Florida State. Florida State. Florida State. Woo. Okay.

[Carl Radke]

Sorry.

[Tom Schwartz]

I I In college, I was. I was having an identity crisis. I knew what I wanted to do deep down. Maybe that's my advice. I wish I would have just had more conviction what I felt in My heart and soul. From a young age, I was, like, embarrassed of the fact that I wanted to be an actor and a performer, but.

[Carl Radke]

Okay. I want to get into more stuff about Schwartz and we can. You can ask me more questions.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, sorry if I'm jumping around.

[Carl Radke]

No, you're fine.

[Tom Schwartz]

I have a podcast I should know, Tom.

[Carl Radke]

Oh, that's why I am. I have an amazing producer who keeps me in track too.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thank you.

[Carl Radke]

Shout out to Annie.

[Tom Schwartz]

But I love talking to you. There's so many directions we could go, but.

[Carl Radke]

Well, I want to get into, like. So you. How did you choose Florida State? Okay, so you knew deep down you maybe you wanted to perform, but instead

[Tom Schwartz]

I went with exercise physiology. I was. My dad's dream was for me to be a baseball player.

[Commercial Announcer]

And.

[Tom Schwartz]

And then I quit playing baseball after he invested like, five years into me. Dad, I'm sorry. He's actually in the hospital right now. He's actually going into surgery right now. I just got a text. It's long story. We don't have to go there.

[Carl Radke]

We're sending love to your pops.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thanks, brother. It's been on again, off again. But he's has got, like, fluid building up in his brain. Like his shunt isn't working properly. Anyways, I'm compartmentalized right now, so I'm good. But thanks. Thank you.

[Carl Radke]

If you need some space or time, you know, feel free.

[Tom Schwartz]

But he wanted me to be a baseball player. And really, I had such, like. He's such a good dad. Like, I. I worked for a distributor after college.

[Carl Radke]

You graduated, though.

[Tom Schwartz]

I did. I graduated. I graduated.

[Carl Radke]

Right.

[Tom Schwartz]

You're gonna high five me?

[Carl Radke]

Well, now I am.

[Tom Schwartz]

Deep down. The whole time I was scheming, I was gonna make enough money and I was gonna move to la, take that leap of faith, and then pursue acting, and that's what I did.

[Carl Radke]

What year did you move to LA?

[Tom Schwartz]

2009.

[Carl Radke]

2009. How quickly until you got to, like, L. A. Are you now acting and getting into the world, or did it take some time?

[Tom Schwartz]

It took some time. So Tom Sandoval was the first person I ever met. We met on Craigslist.

[Carl Radke]

I didn't think I knew.

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh, you didn't know this Tom Sandoval?

[Carl Radke]

You guys just looking for friendship?

[Tom Schwartz]

I was just looking for roommates. And it was a Craigslist slash, like roommate seeker or something. And I made like, a little shout out to Craigslist. I made a little bio and then me and Tom hit it off. And then I saw him and I was like, dude, this guy is doing everything I want.

[Carl Radke]

I feel like you wouldn't want to hit up or talk to another Tom. Like, that would be like, you see a Tom name, you're like, I'm Tom. I don't. I'm good. I'm going to go to the next listing.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, it was comforting. He's like, your name's Tom? My name's Tom. Our last names both start with S. And after that, the rest is history. No, we actually hit it off and, like, so he, like, hyped me up. It got me excited. Tom has done so much for me. I like. I love that man. I know it's a complicated, long friendship we've had, but he's. He'll always be family to me. That man has done so much. He was so integral to my transition into la. Him and. Well, okay, I don't know how much you want. How deep you want to go here, but Tom was living with Kristen when I first got to la, and they were very happily in love. And I became really close with them. And then, like, the way I remember it, it was like six months later. Tom was like, yo, listen, like, we're struggling right now. Like, what do you think about one of my buddies that I used to model with moving into the living room to help us, like, pay rent, offset rent? And I was like, yeah, that's sure. As long as he's not too much of a presence. And then in walks Jax, Taylor, and

[Carl Radke]

then as long as he's not too

[Tom Schwartz]

much of a presence, and the rest is history. But no, those guys were all so helpful to me. They helped me get, like, my first pictures, like, headsh. I was never really, like, a model. I'm a terrible model. You guys saw the. Carl Perry doesn't. He doesn't know about this reference?

[Carl Radke]

No.

[Tom Schwartz]

Do you guys. It haunts me to this day.

[Carl Radke]

Old Vanderpump reference.

[Tom Schwartz]

Actually an okay model, but, like, I've

[Carl Radke]

seen some modeling pixie. I thought you were legit.

[Tom Schwartz]

I was never a model, but I did it to pay the bills. In my mind, it was one step closer to doing what you wanted to do. Exactly.

[Carl Radke]

But you didn't. Getting on a show like Vanderpump wasn't on your. Bingo. It was more like you wanted to be on, like, abc, Lost, or.

[Tom Schwartz]

Exactly. I wanted to be on a procedural. I never wanted to be a star or a movie star. I didn't want to do movies. I wanted to be on a procedural, just like you said.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

But it never in my wildest dreams that I Ever think I would end up on reality tv? I was kind of a low key hater. Bill Langworthy, our executive producer, famously created the Hills, which is one of the biggest shows ever on mtv. And I remember being a hater. I did not like that show.

[Carl Radke]

And I remember you because you maybe wanted to be on it or.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, I just like, I would never do that. I'm an artist, I'm an actor. Meanwhile, I had no acting credits whatsoever, Carl.

[Carl Radke]

Like, I'm like you. I was like, I want to be like, I always look down on maybe the Bravo world or I didn't know enough about it.

[Tom Schwartz]

There was a stigma attached to reality TV back in the day. Now you could be a superstar, you could do shifted. But like in my mind back in the day, if, if I was going to be on reality tv, it would forever compromise my artistic integrity.

[Carl Radke]

Sure.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's how I thought. Yeah, again, like I had done maybe one non union commercial for like Modelo at that point.

[Carl Radke]

Check out my model commercial and fast forward now. Yeah, you were on a second show. Well, you've been on multiple shows. You know, you've done a Special Forces, you've had winter house cameos, you've had your summer house.

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh wait, Sandoval did Special Forces. You're right, I did.

[Carl Radke]

What was the Earth? Mars, dude, did you watch it?

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

You watched it? Of course. Oh, there's no way, dude, I love you, man.

[Tom Schwartz]

It was such a niche show.

[Carl Radke]

You were in like a Stars on Mars. It was like a CGI meets like one of those like Nickelodeon shows. It was like very interesting to watch.

[Tom Schwartz]

I will say it was one of the most unique and unforgettable amazing experiences of my life. You guys, Stars on Mars, like they treated us like. I felt like I was Brad pitted.

[Carl Radke]

I want to get into like your TV career so you get on Vanderpump Rules. But I want to talk about the current, like how many seasons of Vanderpump had there been? 13.

[Tom Schwartz]

We did 11 seasons, I think. In total 224 episodes.

[Carl Radke]

Holy shit.

[Tom Schwartz]

You know what I just realized I'm doing Watch what Happens live. I don't know when this is going to air. I'm in the 15 plus club.

[Carl Radke]

Watch what happens. Are you same brother?

[Tom Schwartz]

No way.

[Carl Radke]

Let's go. My mic's in the way I can.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's insane. Carl. Just to do it once is a gift from God. Like it's such a cool experience to get to hang out with Andy Cohen. He's every bit as cool as you think. He's going to be 100%. He's like, I love him. I still get starstruck on him, even though he's kind of.

[Carl Radke]

I'm always a little nervous around, even when I text him. And his name is saved as Andrew Cohen because that's how he saved it. I'm like, always a little, like, sheepish. Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's how I get, like, around Lisa still.

[Carl Radke]

That's why I think he likes you so much, because he knows I love Andy, but he knows you respect him and you love him, so. And I love Andy. He's given me so much opportunity and he's the man I love going on that show.

[Tom Schwartz]

And he does, like, he will bust my balls, but I deserve it.

[Carl Radke]

Deserve it and same.

[Tom Schwartz]

Also, he always asks about my family. He checks in on me. Like, I shout out to Andy. He's such a sweet, genuine human being.

[Carl Radke]

We're going to get Andy on more life at some point.

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Carl Radke]

I want to get into like. Because you're currently now in the Valley.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

Which is in what, season three.

[Tom Schwartz]

I live in the Valley. I'm on the Valley. I'm so lucky and so happy to be on the show. Hating myself so far. I just seem so awkward.

[Carl Radke]

There's reasons why, as an awkward guy, I'm right there with you.

[Tom Schwartz]

I was going through some weird things and that's okay.

[Carl Radke]

But I think, like, just to catch our audience up who aren't, you know, familiar. You'd been on Vanderpump for 11 seasons.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

You had been married to Katie.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

You guys got then divorced again. We've seen some of this play out, but sorry to kind of bring it up again.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's okay.

[Carl Radke]

But the way you've kind of navigated post divorce this Valley show. Can you talk to me about the differences of Vanderpump and the Valley? Like, does it feel the same or does it feel a little bit different? Does it feel like a new fresh start for you?

[Tom Schwartz]

That's a great question. But now that I hear the raindrops on the roof, could we maybe just take a little schnoozer? Yeah. Like a little five minute.

[Carl Radke]

No, honestly, you can actually hear it a little bit.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's really nice.

[Carl Radke]

Nice.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Carl Radke]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Tom Schwartz]

I'm so grateful to Bravo for asking me to be on the Valley because it's a group of people that I already knew. It felt like the most organic possible transition into another show on Bravo. As awkward as I was in the beginning and I got, I'm cringing watching myself. I had something. I don't know.

[Carl Radke]

It's a long story if I can relate to what you're talking about is, you know, for me, once post breakup with Lindsay, it took me some time. And I know it's been a few years now, but you've been dating, you've had a business, you've had scandal. It took some time to, like, kind of get back to yourself. Do you feel like you're getting closer and closer to, like, that top? Like, who Tom really is?

[Tom Schwartz]

You just nailed it. Yeah, like, that's just exactly what I was going to say. I felt like I lost my identity for a while.

[Carl Radke]

When you get into a relationship, you get married and like, you have all this other stuff, like, you can sometimes lose yourself a little bit.

[Tom Schwartz]

So much of my identity was wrapped up in the bars. My marriage, even though I wasn't always a great husband, but it meant a lot to me and I loved Katie dearly. In my house, like, I had dream house. I had a sick house in the valley with a pool. Like, that could have been a forever home. Like, I had a lot of my identity wrapped up in that. And then when it all dissipated, and not just that, like the stuff with my. My family completely, like, just fell apart. Like my dad and my brother. Like, like so many reoccurring near death experiences which wreaks havoc on your life a lot. Of course, it's like, yeah, and I did my best, but it's just weird. Like, everything I. Everything that was Tom Schwartz that I knew that I guess I worked so hard to attain, it just sort of like dissipated, which is like a powerful

[Carl Radke]

it was almost like one huge breakup.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

In a weird way, but then you're kind of getting. You're kind of rewinding and starting fresh again. Of course. With some of the same faces and people.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

But in a different way.

[Tom Schwartz]

And it's. No, I'm so, like. I had so much fun filming that, and I'm so grateful I had the best.

[Carl Radke]

It's cool to see you. I mean, in your post divorce life and post Schwartz and Sandy's life, you seem a lot more happy. And I know when we saw you guys trying to get the bar open and you and Katie post everything, your trips to Mexico and all the stuff, but, like, you finally seem like you're kind of finding your own path. And I just love, like, kind of seeing that. Did Vanderpump, like, teach you anything about yourself?

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, Lisa Vanderpump taught me some things. Most importantly, don't open a bar in Los Angeles.

[Carl Radke]

Sorry to laugh, but this is such a. I can hear her saying that.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, I mean, I don't want to put words in her mouth, but, like, it's brutal. And I know it's really hard here, too, but, like, it just. Carl, I'm so freaking proud of you. This place is so beautiful.

[Carl Radke]

Thanks, man.

[Tom Schwartz]

I could. I could honestly cry. I'm so. It's so effing beautiful here. And it's like this business will chew you up and spit you out if you don't know what you're doing or if you're not properly br. Bank bankrolled or you just don't have a clear vision or you're not fully dedicated. It can just absolutely chew you up and spit you out and take control, complete control of your whole life. I feel like. I don't know if I'm a cautionary tale. I feel like it was a lesson learned, a very expensive lesson learned.

[Carl Radke]

I mean, do you have regrets about all that or you.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, no, those. I fulfilled the dream. I would always better a life of. Oh, Wells. Yeah. That's a big ol.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, big. I'm glad you guys went for it.

[Tom Schwartz]

Big O. That's a doozy.

[Carl Radke]

And if anything, you showed. I think other people, you know, like you said, the lessons learned, the mistakes that can be made. Are you going to do another bar, do you think?

[Tom Schwartz]

Being in here with you right now, I hate to say it, but it's kind of inspiring me, man.

[Carl Radke]

Maybe we do a soft bar meets Schwartz and Sandy's.

[Tom Schwartz]

Soft bar goes hard. Los Angeles.

[Carl Radke]

Soft bar goes hard. West Hollywood, baby.

[Tom Schwartz]

It does go hard Listen, I bite it, but we'll talk off.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, but I'm curious, like, for your career now. Like, I know you do, you're filming and you do all sorts of stuff. Like what's, what's next for Tom?

[Tom Schwartz]

It's scary. I'm like on the cusp of completely reinventing myself, I think. I mean, I'm always going to be Tom, but, like, professionally, I'm going in a completely different direction.

[Carl Radke]

That's. It's important for people to hear this because everybody thinks at age 40, 42, whatever, you got it all figured out. I'm 41. I'm just now feeling like myself again and feeling like I'm really going down the path I'm supposed to be going. Some of the things that occurred over the last four or five years. Yes. Have been really difficult and ups and downs, but they've all kind of steered me closer to where I feel like I'm supposed to be.

[Tom Schwartz]

Carl, I love that you said that. Should we do like a timeline? Age panic, PSA? You guys like people in your 20s and your 30s. If you're watching this, you might not have it all figured out when you hit 40. And, like, you might. Maybe you're a baller, maybe you're knocking down 10, 20 million a year, but maybe you're completely unfulfilled in your relationship or vice versa. Just letting you know it's okay, by the way, is that I feel great in my 40s.

[Carl Radke]

I. I think 40s are the new 20s.

[Tom Schwartz]

40s.

[Carl Radke]

Because you know what you want, you know what you don't want. Yeah, I think I'm a little bit wiser and I just, I feel like I've learned some shit and like, invaluable kind of life experiences that really inform your 40s. You're just a little bit more comfortable.

[Tom Schwartz]

Totally. I feel great in my own skin.

[Carl Radke]

Do you have your sparkle back now? Shout out to Brittany. I guess I can't do a Britney impression, but I love, I love Brittany.

[Tom Schwartz]

I think a large part of my sparkle is coming from my girlfriend.

[Carl Radke]

Shout out to your girlfriend very much. How long you guys been together now?

[Tom Schwartz]

I think we just hit the seven month month milestone.

[Carl Radke]

Seven months, baby. I know we've been seven months here at Soft Bar, so we'll be pacing along with the sexy.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's a beautiful thing. But that's a shout out to Kiana because that's. She's just been such an uplifting, like, presence in my life. She's so hilarious and wise beyond her years and just effing. Cool. And anyways, I just want to give

[Carl Radke]

her a shout out. Having someone like that can understand the world you're from, the world you've been in, you know, you're still friendly with Katie. Your ex love Katie, ex wife.

[Tom Schwartz]

She's got the dogs right now.

[Carl Radke]

I love that. So shout out to the dogs.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

You know, and shout out to Katie. You know, we've known Katie for years, and I love that you guys have been able to navigate friendship post divorce. And I kind of relate to some of seeing what Lindsay and I kind of are in right now in Summer House. It's beautiful, isn't it?

[Commercial Announcer]

Feel good?

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, it feels really good.

[Carl Radke]

Of course you love. You still love Katie. I love Lindsay. I care for her deeply. I want the best for her. And that period of time where you don't have that friendship, you know, Katie was your best friend. Yeah, Lindsay was my best friend. When the breakup happens, you kind of just like, it evaporates. And there was a big adjustment for me because I understand why, but it took time to, like, restart that kind of friendship a little bit. And we're getting closer and closer, and we've had some really nice bonding moments for you. Like, how is it navigating, like, your friendship with Katie and then also this beautiful relationship that you have developing?

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, it's like we're just. We're still close, but, like, we have, like, such a cordial distance. Like, we see each other still love.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

I have nothing but fond memories. Like, maybe I don't like to be revisionist.

[Carl Radke]

Remember the good stuff.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

And I do that with Lindsay and I. And that's what's happening. The laughing and the jokes. I mean, you and Katie still laugh.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. I love when she, like, busts my balls and stuff. And it's just like, we have a good banter, and I like. It makes me so happy to see her thriving with her new. Like, she's killing it on her podcast. She's got her other business ventures. She's really happy and in love. That makes me happy.

[Carl Radke]

That's huge.

[Tom Schwartz]

But it did take a while to get there, and it sucked when it all just kind of was gone. It's like you. But on the latest episode of the Valley, you hear Michelle Lala talking about this. It's just like, you think about at one point, this person was your everything, like your twin flame. You would do anything for them. You're madly in love. So much to the point where you have a child with this person, like Jesse and Michelle, and then all Of a sudden, like in a blink of an eye, it feels like you hate each other and you're going through a divorce and custody battles. It can feel so bleak. And it's easy to get jaded. But I'm happy to report the stakes weren't as high for me and Katie.

[Carl Radke]

Sure.

[Tom Schwartz]

But it's just as sad. And I don't feel jaded.

[Carl Radke]

At home. Had animals, you have family, you have friends. It. You guys were as entangled as it gets, other than not having kids, which, yeah, in a weird way maybe is what allowed some of this post divorce to be a lot more copacetic and. And healthy.

[Tom Schwartz]

Totally.

[Carl Radke]

Was there anything you learned after the divorce with Katie, like, well, after it ended that maybe you wish you had known?

[Tom Schwartz]

Sometimes I look back and I'm like, did I fail that marriage? There was parts of it where I was just kind of a putz.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

And I just.

[Carl Radke]

Hey, it was the first time you were married, man. Or had you been married before? No, no, no, that was the first

[Tom Schwartz]

time I married twice, but the same person. We got married in Caesars too. That's right, because that's a long story.

[Carl Radke]

But you guys have had some wild ass tv.

[Tom Schwartz]

Let me think, Carl, before I, like, just keep yapping, what did I learn? Well, I learned to be a better communicator, for sure. And like, I don't know, I used to like when someone was upset or angry. I used to be such an avoidant person. I would like run away, if not literally internally. You know what I mean?

[Carl Radke]

Yeah. I can be conflict avoidant at times too. And something that is shown on Summerhouse for sure.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

I almost feel like the show kind of exposes more. Am I always like that? No, but like at a party where everybody's wasted and flipping out, like, I might be. Yeah, like, but it's not like always. But no, you're.

[Tom Schwartz]

You're mature.

[Carl Radke]

I appreciate being honest about the conflict avoidant thing because, I mean, I've seen you on the show and you can tell sometimes you're having more of an inner monologue than you are outwardly.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, I just used to be like. Like when people are upset. I love when people vent to me. Now I'm like, let it out. Let's talk about it.

[Carl Radke]

You're a safe space.

[Tom Schwartz]

Right. Especially Katie. Like, I just like, I figure it out, chill out. Like, I used to be so, like, dismissive and I'm just not like that anymore. I don't know. I don't.

[Carl Radke]

Did you learn anything from watching yourself back on These moments with Katie or in other. Like, I'll give you an example. Like, athletes watch film.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

You know, it's weird, but studying the tapes. Studying the tapes. I will watch our episod. Not unlike that, where the conflict avoidant or how I'm delivering something I'm really feeling. Or reactions navigating these conversations. Do you watch either Vanderpump or the Valley and go, that's not how I wanted to do that. And I'm going to try my better

[Tom Schwartz]

next time against my will. But I don't go back and study the tapes. I'm not, like, I'm not Brady. I'm not the goat. I'm not the goat.

[Carl Radke]

That's why Brady's the goat. He watched all the tapes.

[Tom Schwartz]

I just think I was dealing with a lot of firsts, even though I was a late bloomer and I was still in my, like, mid to late 30s, and I didn't handle it well, and I was just immature. I was immature. Not Peter Pan syndrome, just immature. Sorry. Sort of subject.

[Carl Radke]

It was, like, pretty poignant there.

[Tom Schwartz]

I just was, I'm like a late bloomer. And I didn't.

[Carl Radke]

It was. I'm a late bloomer too, Tom.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. You're handling it so elegantly, and I love seeing you thrive. I just. I think.

[Carl Radke]

Nothing wrong with being a late bloomer.

[Tom Schwartz]

I don't know if I want to point out specific things in my marriage that I regret. I just. There's. I just wish I would have been a better communicator and a. Just better listener and, like, not been so quick to, like, judge and be logical when people are upset, which is so annoying.

[Carl Radke]

Do you give yourself any grace in this?

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, I give myself a ton of grace because there was like, do you

[Carl Radke]

ever, like, hit up Katie out of nowhere and be like, hey, like, I've just thought of, like, something weird from five, ten years ago and, like, apologize

[Tom Schwartz]

to her out of respect for her new. No, I don't. But maybe there's times that, like, I wake up at three in the morning, I'm like, ring on a string at Sheena's wedding, bro. What? Although I think it was still a cute concept, just poorly executed, for the record. Sorry.

[Carl Radke]

Classic. Classic. I think you said you've never thought you'd be in your 40s without kids, and here you are. How are you kind of navigating or how you. How does that feel? As you were approaching, you know, more of your 40s and getting a little further along? I mean, I started thinking about it because I Have all my. Most of my guy friends are married with two or three kids now. And would I trade places with them? No. Would they trade with me?

[Tom Schwartz]

Maybe on any given day.

[Carl Radke]

Any given day. But I of course want to have a family. I do want to get married. I do want to have a, like build a family and all that. Is that something in your future still?

[Tom Schwartz]

I hope so.

[Carl Radke]

But it's not like a big listen priority.

[Tom Schwartz]

The biological. Well, I don't.

[Carl Radke]

That's the male biological clock.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thank you for the quality, if that exists. It's that I like, you know, I do. I don't know. I don't want to get too, like sometimes I'm like, oh my God, even if I have a kid right now, I'm gonna be an old dad. Like that kind of stuff.

[Carl Radke]

But wouldn't you feel like being an older dad you'll be able to show up in a more profound way for your children because you've. Being a late bloomer, you've worked through some of those things that maybe would have been. It would have shifted how you were as a father if you were younger.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, I hope, I hope if things go according to plan, like there'll be fiscal stability and like I'll be able to not. Not focus so much on work and be able to really like hone in and be a great dad and a family man. Be present more.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, because you'll be now you've hopefully got a little bit more money saved. You're more further along in life. And I feel like that's where I'm going to be in life, where I'm going to be really being able to show up for my kids, be the coach, rides, sleepovers, hosting like all like the dad stuff. Like, I want that so bad.

[Tom Schwartz]

Dude, me too.

[Carl Radke]

I feel like you do too.

[Tom Schwartz]

You just said it perfectly. Like the little things like taking your kids to the ball game or to like dance or something, just being the ultimate dad. I think that's a big like one of my overarching storylines this season in the Valley. Just like wrestling with that man. I never thought I would be in my 40s and not have the white picket fence.

[Carl Radke]

Are you talking to Jesse about this? I mean, he's got a kid, but it's co parenting.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, I do, I do. And we've had some great conversations with him.

[Carl Radke]

And I love, I really like Jesse.

[Tom Schwartz]

Jesse's the man.

[Carl Radke]

Built a nice friendship with him.

[Tom Schwartz]

Jesse is very smart, very intelligent.

[Carl Radke]

I love seeing how he like being. He's newer in this world, but his perspective on it. It's so interesting. Just because you've been around for a while. I've been around for a while, but he's a smart dude, so it's like, it's cool to hear him talk about how this whole thing, he really is.

[Tom Schwartz]

And you can tell. I know sometimes even in the past, like, he's rubbed people the wrong way. And I think he used to be a little more unsavory. I don't know. Or just like. But he's. He can tell. He's put work into himself. He's gone to therapy. Just. He's really done a lot of self reflecting. He has so much humility now.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's almost impossible not to like him.

[Carl Radke]

Humility is everything, people. A lot of humility, too.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thanks.

[Carl Radke]

It's a great quality.

[Tom Schwartz]

I have to.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

I mean, I think, like, sometimes in my, like, travels, people will come up to me, talk to me at the Valley, and they'll be like, I think Jesse's a douche. But I love him still. I hear that a lot. I don't think Jesse's a douche. Women say that to me. They're like, I really like him.

[Carl Radke]

I think that's what I get sometimes. It's like, I like Carl, but he's still kind of like a dork.

[Tom Schwartz]

Or like, you're still not a douche.

[Carl Radke]

Sometimes I still have it in me. I want to get into some friendship stuff.

[Tom Schwartz]

Let's do it. Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

You've been watching a little bit of Summer House? Maybe this season.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

What do you think, dude? Yes. Well, it was like, that was a great, instant change of reaction, I think.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's just, I. I just loving you guys. Not. Not thinking of you guys as a cast, but all. All the good times I've had with you guys. And, like, there's just so much love and there's so much authenticity and, like, there's rich, deep, meaningful friendships. And when I saw that, I was like, oh, God, this could jeopardize their whole dynamic.

[Carl Radke]

I mean, you might have. Virtue signaled hardcore. And Tom Schwartz came to Summer House. We ran into Tom and I alluded to this earlier in the convo, but we ran into you at a party in the Hamptons. You were there with Patron. Kyle and I were like, yo, we should get him to the house. And we said something to the producer. And the next weekend you were there. We had an epic weekend at the summer house. And you went into the girl's bedroom. At one point, the bedbugs. Paige, Sierra, Amanda. And you Guys, you were like, cherish this moment. You never know.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, first of all, that was just straight from my heart.

[Carl Radke]

Well, that's why it's so ridiculously on point, because you were just being Tom. Because you were so right, though. Like, we should be cherishing what we have. And, like, this friend group is so important to us. You need to, like, show everybody love, too, and remind each other how much, like, how cool this is, that we

[Tom Schwartz]

get to do this and how lucky we are.

[Carl Radke]

How lucky.

[Tom Schwartz]

So listen, how are you, by the way, with this whole thing?

[Carl Radke]

Well, that's why I wanted to ask you. I mean, you have gone through arguably one of the biggest.

[Tom Schwartz]

Don't say it. Don't say the S word.

[Carl Radke]

I'm not going to say it. You guys went through a very large S word. I feel like we're kind of in a similar thing now. It's very different, obviously, for a variety of reasons. How did you handle, like, navigating that, like, it's hard, like, publicly because you're like, if you say anything about Sandoval, like, oh, Schwartz is an asshole, even though you have a history. And like, yeah, it's really hard. Can you talk about, like, those intense.

[Tom Schwartz]

I felt like my entire identity and humanity got stripped away and I got, like, boiled down and reduced to, like, an accomplice or a guy who knew. It's like all of a sudden I became a side character in another person's movie. That's how I felt. I was like all of my schwartzness, like, was stripped away and people were, like, trying to, like, nail me on, like, timelines and stuff.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, well, you're naturally like a peacekeeper and, like, the con, like, you maybe can keep the conflict at bay.

[Tom Schwartz]

I wish I could. I don't know. If I could go back in time, what would I do differently? Oh, God, why did I ask myself that? I don't know.

[Carl Radke]

It's good to reflect.

[Tom Schwartz]

I. Hindsight's 20 20, obviously.

[Carl Radke]

Is there anything you could give if you've reached out to Kyle at all? I mean, I know you talked to Kyle.

[Tom Schwartz]

I saw him a few weeks ago. No, I didn't see you.

[Carl Radke]

No, you didn't see me.

[Tom Schwartz]

I saw him. He was at Rocco's.

[Carl Radke]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

And me and Kiana popped in. I just gave him a hug. I feel like most of our exchanges have been like, non verbal. It's like love and he's okay.

[Carl Radke]

Sometimes that's all they need. I try to do the same for him, but, like, is there any advice you can maybe give me? Kyle the rest of the group, as we navigate.

[Tom Schwartz]

I remember, like, this happened when our thingy happened. S word. And I remember, like, when you're. When you're going through it and you know you've made a grave mistake and you've really messed up and jeopardized, like, very meaningful, loving relationships. I think, like, the natural thing to do is deflect and, like, kind of focus on, I don't know, dates or, like, incongruities or, like, correcting people on, like, small details. You know what I mean? Because it gives you, like, a little. When you know you've effed up majorly, it gives you, like, a little sense of, like, control. I don't have to.

[Carl Radke]

I wanted to kind of poke around that because I'm going into the reunion this week and. Are you.

[Tom Schwartz]

This is going to be insane.

[Carl Radke]

It's going to be insane. But I feel it's a necessary thing that we have to do this. But I always have felt like our show holds ourselves to a pretty high standard, and I really am confident we're going to put it all out there, give people the space they need to say what they say.

[Tom Schwartz]

I remember going into, like, that reunion, man, like season 10 and 11. I was some of the best shitless,

[Carl Radke]

Some of the best television I've ever seen.

[Tom Schwartz]

I just. Cuz I didn't know, like, I was dealing with a lot of other stuff in my life outside of the show, and I just, like, I was like. I didn't know the timelines exactly. I knew.

[Carl Radke]

But I want to get into that because this is something I think a lot of our audience forgets is, yes, these are. People love Bravo. People love Vanderpump, deservedly so. People are loving Summer House. We're real people.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

And there's a lot of real going on also behind what you're watching on the show. I know you've. You talked about your dad going through stuff right now. I know your brother has had some liver challenges and I think sober now. Right?

[Tom Schwartz]

Fully sober. Miracle liver transplant.

[Carl Radke]

Shout out to your brother.

[Tom Schwartz]

Bert's a charm. Shout out to Ochsner in New Orleans.

[Carl Radke]

Okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

Saved his life.

[Carl Radke]

Wow.

[Tom Schwartz]

And it's a beautiful thing. He's, like, thriving now.

[Carl Radke]

I love that. I mean, if we're. If you're comfortable talking about a little bit like the. The brother of it all. Because as someone who's lost a sibling to overdose, when I meet friends who have brothers that maybe struggle or they're being supportive, it just warms my heart. And I'm curious. Just kind of Navigating, being on TV with pretty significant family stuff going on behind the scenes.

[Tom Schwartz]

So I didn't.

[Carl Radke]

Well, even talking about your family on the show, like, I talked about my brother's addictions early on in Summer House and it was a horrible thing to do. It really messed me and my brother's relationship. Cause he actually saw that talking head and I'm just like drunkenly talking about his addictions. And it was so messed up and so wrong.

[Tom Schwartz]

But it's so understandable to give yourself some grace because when we're doing it, it's like you're. I'm never thinking that I'm on a TV show when I'm filming, or even when I'm doing confessionals. Even there's a million cameras right now. Like, I'm not thinking that we're filming.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

You try this with you, they just disappear. Yeah. And then sometimes that bites you in the ass. But it's. I don't know, one. I guess my. If there's biggest takeaway was I didn't realize like how nasty addiction is. And like when you're truly addicted, I didn't realize like, it's a physiological chemical.

[Carl Radke]

Yes. I think it's important for you to say this because as siblings who are in families with alcoholism, substance abuse, a lot of times you don't clock as it as that you think he's an asshole, he steals from you, he lies. But if you can flip it over, you wouldn't get angry at your brother if he had cancer. Totally. But it's a different thing. It's a disease, but it's something that if he could probably change, he would want to, but he can't.

[Tom Schwartz]

I think a lot of people still think it's a lack of willpower. Uneducated or under informed or inexperienced people haven't experienced it, but it's like, yeah, I've watched it in real time and that's like I was so. I never used the word gnarly. It's just. It feels almost disrespectful, given the stakes, but just like seeing how it just completely takes over your entire life when you wake up. Like, if you don't drink, when you wake up, you will start shaking. You can like convulse, you can have seizures. It's like you're enslaved by the drug

[Carl Radke]

or you literally think you're going to die if you don't get that substance.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's.

[Carl Radke]

It's crazy.

[Tom Schwartz]

I didn't realize.

[Carl Radke]

And that substance literally kills you.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, maybe I knew in theory, but until you see it happen, like, graphically in real time. And you can see it, smell it. You're like, part of that. It's like it just. You never look at addiction the same way.

[Carl Radke]

Has. Has that part of your family in that story, navigating that. Has that impacted your relationship with alcohol or just how you look at how you have fun?

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, no, for sure. Like, I notoriously drink too much. Although I'm much better now. Like, I still like drinking and having a good time.

[Carl Radke]

I feel like you're one of the ones that can have a good time. You don't get angry. Maybe you have your moments.

[Tom Schwartz]

But I used to get sloppy.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

And I don't do that anymore.

[Carl Radke]

You seem a lot more controlled.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, I mean, I still, Yeah, I like to go out, have a good time. But, yeah, I don't. I think I'm just more mindful.

[Carl Radke]

Sure.

[Tom Schwartz]

And then when I'm not drinking, I'm like, I. You know, I do detox retox. I'm heavy on the detox when I'm big detox guy. Well, I love heavy in the detox phase. I'm not trying to, like, just break. I'm trying to level up. You know what I mean?

[Carl Radke]

Well, and you have a few sober friends, too, in la. And I, you know, I have a lot of friends out in LA and shout out to Lala, who I'm still trying to get on the pod, but when I first met Lala, we were drinking on Watch Poppins Live, and she was with Randall at the time, and we were drinking martinis backstage, and I was, like, flirting with Lala and Randall was not liking me.

[Tom Schwartz]

Wait, that. Okay, that's good lore.

[Carl Radke]

Good lore.

[Tom Schwartz]

We brushed over that, but we can.

[Carl Radke]

But I want to talk about you and Lala's friendship. You have a really beautiful friendship.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

I've admired and been inspired by her sober story. So she has a woman on Bravo. I think it's really powerful to hear her talk about it. She's a mother. She's been through some really public, difficult shit. She's also absolutely hilarious. I mean, fofty. Send it to Daryl.

[Tom Schwartz]

She's iconic.

[Carl Radke]

I love her.

[Tom Schwartz]

She is one thing I'm so jealous of. Like, the angrier she gets, the more poignant and articulate she cuts with it.

[Carl Radke]

She cuts hard.

[Tom Schwartz]

My brain just goes blank when I'm upset. And, like, I'm being challenged. I can't. I can't barely formulate a sentence. And she's like. Turns into Shakespeare.

[Carl Radke]

Has she, like, educated you at all? About some of the sobriety of it all or just being friends with her has shown you kind of how, you know, someone who doesn't drink can still be fun or still be, you know, poignant.

[Tom Schwartz]

Dude. That's exactly it. I think Lala was like a personification of someone's human's capability to still be fun, outgoing, go out, hit the clubs, everything while not drinking. I love it because in my mind, like, I went through a sober, curious phase, and I still. I love being sober just as much as I love treating myself. But she just. I think she was a shining example of how you can still be a fulfilled, happy, sociable, outgoing person while being sober, just like yourself.

[Carl Radke]

But that's why, like, I love seeing Lala, the Lalas, you love seeing people that are really living their life fully and out loud and publicly. And. And it gives inspiration to those trying to kind of still do that. Because I love being social, I love being active, But I think the perception is that as soon as you stop drinking or get sober, as you're boring and you're lame, and it's far from that. So I love that you saw that. I just have a couple more questions for you, and we will wrap here. But where do you see yourself in five years, man? You still gonna be doing the Valley? You gonna be married, kids?

[Tom Schwartz]

I used to wanna.

[Carl Radke]

I used to get the real house husbands of the Valley. Okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

I want to move into the health and wellness space. Kind of why I started this podcast, my podcast to educate myself and give myself an excuse to try new things, travel the world.

[Carl Radke]

I love it. This is kind of what I'm doing with more life is like, it's. It's my excuse to get therapy from people that I admire and inspired by, whether it's sober friends, business, people, reality. Like, I'm using this in a way for selfish reasons.

[Tom Schwartz]

Me too.

[Carl Radke]

Because you can get. You're getting a lot out of it.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. And I learned so much. And also I found myself kind of turning into a bit of a hermit. Not to get too deep on that. I was turning into a hermit mute, though. Like, I could feel myself going in that direction.

[Carl Radke]

Hermit mute.

[Tom Schwartz]

I was like, I got to start a podcast. I got to start talking, putting myself out there, educating myself. The code name for my show was the Re. Education of. Of Tom Schwartz. But I really want to move into the health and wellness space.

[Carl Radke]

You're a lot more. Not. You're interesting on the Valley, but outside of that, like, the behind the scenes, Tom is actually, like, way more cool.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thank You, I think, okay, Carl, you have won my heart. Because people come to me, and they're like, schweitzi, you're just like, you are on the show. And I'm like, that is a grave insult, because I don't like myself on this show.

[Carl Radke]

One of my favorites of all time. A friend of mine's father. Dad. He coached me in baseball growing up. He called me after, like, season one had finished playing, and he's like, carl, I love your character on Summer House. I was like, it's me, not a character. I was so rattled by it, because I'm like, that's. That's hilarious that he thinks I'm playing a character, but I'm not.

[Tom Schwartz]

Wait, you made me laugh, and I lost my train of thought.

[Carl Radke]

Where are you gonna be in five years?

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, Okay, I hate to even put this out there, but I think I got one last bar in me. I'd like to open one more bar.

[Carl Radke]

What about a coffee bar?

[Tom Schwartz]

And I'd like to create some of my own shows. Do you know what I mean? I'd like to one day be behind the camera.

[Carl Radke]

You could be the owner of the bar that then has the crazy staff that all sleeps with each other and fights.

[Tom Schwartz]

And I've been pitched that.

[Carl Radke]

Tom Schwartz rules.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Carl Radke]

Well, I know we got to get you going, but I have one last thing that I ask all my guests.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

What's giving you more life right now?

[Tom Schwartz]

Honestly, right now, in this moment, my girlfriend. Shout out to Kiana.

[Carl Radke]

It's very sweet.

[Tom Schwartz]

New York City. The best city in the effing world. Yeah. And honestly, just being here chilling with you, Carl, this came from your brain. I love when people have an idea and they bring it to fruition. It's like ours. It's such a beautiful thing, and it was so well executed. I like. I love the idea of, like, this being in your iPhone notes one day, and now we're sitting here. It was. And it's. I just had one of the best drinks I've ever had in my life.

[Carl Radke]

That's my favorite too, by the way.

[Tom Schwartz]

So good. And like, dude, you're doing it. It's like. It's inspiring.

[Carl Radke]

It's part of, like, you know, the work I've done over the last few years. Like, I really wrote down on. On a piece of paper what. Everything that I'm doing right now has all been written down. I had the piece of paper. It was from four years ago. And, yeah, I was still in a relationship with Lindsay. At the time, I'd worked with a business coach, and I was really all like, what brings me joy, what fulfills me, what brings me passion? But then also, what is service, what's going to help people, what's going to change my future, what's going to do some of these things and everything that's happening right now has all been written down. But the best part is I don't feel like I'm working because I'm.

[Tom Schwartz]

This.

[Carl Radke]

It's passion and it's alignment with my life. But the key ingredient to all this. I'm taking a lot of credit here, and I get a lot more credit than I deserve. I have amazing people that I brought together, and a big part of this is being smart enough to get out of the way and allowing people to do what they're really good at doing and incentivizing and not micromanaging. And maybe I do this, but I've really been lucky with the team I have here at Soft Bar, my podcast team, the book show. I'm a part of really good groups and good teams. So it's sometimes interesting as I get a lot more credit than I think I deserve.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, that inspires me about you, because I know you do this. You're really good at surrounding yourself with great people.

[Carl Radke]

You're only as good as your worst friend.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, I.

[Carl Radke]

Just kidding. And you can point it at me, too.

[Tom Schwartz]

I sometimes bite off more than I can chew.

[Carl Radke]

I think it's just like, ask for help, man.

[Tom Schwartz]

Dude, get out of your own way.

[Carl Radke]

Closed mouths. One of our guests said, closed mouths don't get fed. And I, as a male, too, it's hard sometimes to ask, but I've learned even in the last few years with this. Like, did I know what the best coffee maker machine was in the U.S. no, but I have an amazing coffee person who's. Do I know what the best microphones and seats for a podcast studio are? No, but I have great people that really believe in what we're building, but allow them them to bring in their value. And I. There's fingerprints of everybody all over this. It's not just mine, which I'm really proud of.

[Tom Schwartz]

So I love that. I love that. And it's inspiring to me, and I think it's probably inspiring to other people, too. You don't have to do everything on your own. If you have an idea, you start it on your own. And then.

[Carl Radke]

And if it has mission and a purpose behind it, you, like, attract people to it because they're like, I want to be a part of that, too.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's so. It's so magnetic when you're doing something that you fully have conviction and believe in. It's like people gravitate towards that.

[Carl Radke]

Yep. You know, I wanted to tell you, we have a billboard out front of Soft Bar. Last month it was Zootopia 2. For the whole month, Disney had this huge billboard and I thought of you every day.

[Tom Schwartz]

I think it's a nice way to end because, listen, I don't know what's going to happen with you, with your friend group, the show, the reunion, but, like, right now, let's just end on that moment where we're all sitting on the trampoline watching Zoom, which, by the

[Carl Radke]

way, he fell asleep out there and got rained on, which is Navy Karma. I know you're. But that was an iconic moment.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, I wish everyone the best, even

[Carl Radke]

Tom, who fucked up.

[Tom Schwartz]

And, yeah, it's tough.

[Carl Radke]

But I appreciate you being here.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thanks.

[Carl Radke]

I know our audience is going to love listening to you, brother. Where can people find you? Yeah, you're on Instagram. You have your Detox Retox stuff plug. Anything you want.

[Tom Schwartz]

You guys, I'll make this quick. Tomtoms for sale. Probably only be open a few more months. Two or three months. I don't if you know this.

[Carl Radke]

I heard it.

[Tom Schwartz]

Come hang out with me. I'm going to be hosting on the weekends. And yes, I'll DJ if you want to.

[Carl Radke]

Honestly, TomTom's a cool bar. Yeah, it is a cool bar and the vibes are great. It's sad to hear. Hear that it's being sold. Would you ever buy it back and like.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, no, man. It's just too much.

[Carl Radke]

Maybe I'll buy it and call it Kyle Carl. It's six.

[Tom Schwartz]

Whatever.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Check out my podcast, Detox Retox. And dude, thanks.

[Carl Radke]

Of course.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thanks for having me.

[Carl Radke]

Thank you for being here, Tom.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's so fun.

[Carl Radke]

You're the best.

[Tom Schwartz]

You're the best.

[Carl Radke]

Thank you guys for joining us today on More Life. Check us out again here at Soft Bar in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Give it up for Tom Schwartz. Thank you, brother. Cheers. More Life is produced by Annie Siegel and executive produced by Adam Reynolds of Denim Pictures. This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mikey Ortiz and recorded at Soft Bar Studios in Brooklyn, New York. More Life is a production of Sony Music Entertainment. From Sony. Our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay. Original music by Function Adams. Set design by Michael Ignacio. Publicity by Caitlin Healy. Additional support from Abby Sharp. Special thanks to Allison Shano. And Joanna Orland. New episodes drop every Tuesday. We'll see you next time.

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