Why He Couldn't Ask for Help Until His Life Fell Apart with JB Copeland

Summary

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More Life with Carl Radke

Episode: Why He Couldn't Ask for Help Until His Life Fell Apart with JB Copeland

Release Date: August 4, 2026
Guest: JB Copeland (author of Sappy Medium, host of The Motion podcast) Host: Carl Radke

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Episode Overview

In this raw, candid episode, Carl Radke sits down with JB Copeland to discuss the lifelong journey of growth, masculinity, addiction, and the bumpy, non-linear road to self-acceptance. JB opens up about his struggles as a former Division 1 football player, the oppressive pressure he faced in Texas sports culture, and years of substance abuse and mental health battles. The conversation deeply explores why men find it so hard to ask for help, the damaging culture of performance and stoicism, the importance of vulnerability, and how JB rebuilt his life through honesty, therapy, and community. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in healing, sobriety, identity, and how to finally allow oneself to be seen.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Mantras, Masculinity, and Texas Football

• Carl shares his "more life" mantra, emphasizing living fully, especially important to him in sobriety.
  • "I've embodied this as a mantra. Now in my sobriety, it's more like, I really live life, and I really try to take advantage of my opportunities. ... Just try to embrace each day and live it to the fullest." (02:11)
• JB responds with his own:
  • "For 27 years of my life, I wasn't me. I didn't know me. ... So mine's probably just 'be you.'" (02:29)
• Discussion moves into the intense, pressure-filled football culture of Texas and its lifelong effects on self-worth and identity.
  • "It's like religion... we would have, at a high school, 15, 20,000 fans showing up every Friday night." (05:25)
  • "It's an environment of high performance, high fear. You do not mess up. If we don't win, we suck." (05:40)

Addiction’s Roots: Performance, Injury, and Numbing Out

• Early intro to drugs/alcohol:
  • Coping with sports injuries and peer pressure led JB to drinking and smoking in high school. (07:18)
• College years:
  • Loss of athletic identity post-ACL injury, transferred schools searching for self-worth, experimented with steroids and failed drug tests.
  • "Within two weeks, I failed a drug test ... for weed." (13:29)
• Mental health struggles go undiscussed:
  • "Growing up in church, you can’t really, like, put a finger on your feelings. ... As a guy, you gotta just be tough and stoic and jam it all down." (08:16)
  • "There was a father wound there, and I wanted to be affirmed by a man that told me that he was proud of me." (15:35)

The Downward Spiral: Identity Crisis, Isolation & Substance Escalation

• After second concussion, football career ends:
  • "Everything I worked for... just over. I would say that was the beginning of like, that’s when it really turned in a different direction." (17:43)
• Isolation as a coping strategy:
  • "I didn't lose friends. I isolated. And that's the thing I've seen... It's a pattern in my life. I think a lot of men isolate." (20:23)
• Escalation of substances:
  • JB’s drug use evolved into daily Xanax, painkillers, ketamine, and destructive secrecy, culminating in failing out of school and being kicked off a scholarship.
  • "From being a recruited athlete to a complete loser ... It's like Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad." (25:07)

On Relationships, Performance, and the Mask

• Meeting his now-wife, Chloe, but hiding his addiction and struggles:
  • "She got the best of me, ... the performative side, the good guy and the happy guy. ... It was all an act." (26:12)
• Even faith and family become arenas for performance:
  • "I was a youth pastor at my dad’s church, and I was probably the worst youth pastor ever ... Just played games and had fun." (28:57)

Hitting Bottom & Breaking the Silence

• The eventual intervention:
  • Chloe (his wife) and his parents confront him; JB finally confesses everything after nearly a decade of hiding.
  • "I just said, look, at that point I was also having some panic attacks. ... I’m an addict. I can’t stop. ... I feel like a failure." (30:59)
• Admits to feeling unworthy and unable to get help:
  • "I don’t even know what [getting help] looks like. ... But I will." (31:29)

The Work of Recovery: Therapy, Identity, and Inner Child Healing

• Rehab brings the root causes to light:
  • "Addiction is the fruit of a root. ... Why are you restless and irritable and discontent? ... Number one, it was because of all the feelings that I was suppressing. But number two...I was disconnected from myself and God." (36:38)
• Transformative moment:
  • Participates in intense psychotherapy, reconnecting with his inner child.
  • "A laugh, a laugh is what kind of set me free... That little kid JB came back out again." (39:59)
• Carl echoes trial of reconnecting to childlike self:
  • "That's kind of how I feel like I am now. Like I'm just a bigger version of that five-year-old kid." (40:30)

Why Men Don’t Ask for Help

• JB’s core insight:
  • "What vulnerability is, is showing your weakness. ... We've been taught that’s not okay. ... But what strength is, is being able to have capacity as a man—to hold space for yourself, for others. ... You can't tap into strength unless you are vulnerable." (41:03)
• On isolation:
  • "If I show my weakness ... it's going to reinforce that the belief that I'm not enough is true. ... So it's more comfortable to isolate." (41:49)

Changing the Narrative: Generational Shifts & The Language of Feeling

• Are things changing?
  • JB is hopeful: "I think the millennial Gen Z generation is saying, like, there’s gotta be something more. ... They want to be themselves. And you can’t be real and yourself if you’re not vulnerable." (44:33)
• On viral vulnerability:
  • "It surprised me because of the amount of people that reached out and said, I feel like you. ... We are connected by feeling. Feeling is a universal language." (45:07)

Relapse, Honesty, and Ongoing Growth

• Candidly shares his relapse after initial rehab:
  • "I went and got a Xanax prescription in 2024 ... up until April of 2025. I wasn’t abusing Xanax, but I was taking them nightly." (47:29)
• Returns to detox, this time more honest:
  • "I'm just gonna be honest... I’m not a guru. ... I struggle just like everyone else." (48:55)
• Key message:
  • "Healing is an upward spiral ... we go through times of darkness and light ... part of the journey. ... I was honest with my wife. I was honest with my dad. I got help." (49:50)

Daily Practices & Inspiration

• Non-negotiables:
  • Daily sauna and regular ice baths
  • Regular workouts (3-5x/week)
  • Breathwork (Wim Hof method)
  • Prioritizing inspiration and state-shifting (music, movies, conversations).
• On inspiration over routine:
  • "I think what's most important is inspiration. When we live in our head so much, it's hard to be inspired. When you're in your head, you're dead." (52:09)

Final Reflections: What Gives JB "More Life"

• "Right now, I'm working on a book...and my wife, and we just got a puppy. ... I want to be a dad. ... My wife, my family, my brothers—just the things close to me." (53:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "For 27 years of my life...I wasn't me. ... Just be you."
  —JB Copeland (02:30)
• "It's an environment of high performance, high fear. ... That hurt me through the years."
  —JB Copeland (05:40)
• "Addiction is the fruit of a root...Why are you restless and irritable and discontent?"
  —JB Copeland (36:38)
• "Healing is an upward spiral. ... It's part of the journey, and I've had to have grace with myself."
  —JB Copeland (48:55)
• "What vulnerability is, is showing your weakness...but what strength is, is being able to have capacity as a man."
  —JB Copeland (41:03)
• "A laugh is what kind of set me free. ... That little kid JB came back out again."
  —JB Copeland (39:59)
• "We are connected by feeling. Feeling is a universal language."
  —JB Copeland (45:07)
• "I feel like I got that out of my system and I feel like I'm in a better place now."
  —JB Copeland (50:58)
• On relapse & honesty:
  —"Not everybody tells that story...even the relapses or the ups and downs. ... It's so important that you tell that." —Carl Radke (49:50)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Mantras & Early Struggles: 02:09–05:00
• Texas Football Culture & Family Pressure: 05:21–08:28
• College, Injury, and Substance Use: 06:35–13:09
• Failing Drug Tests & Self-Sabotage: 13:07–17:43
• Isolation & Mental Health: 20:23–21:03
• Asking for Help—The Intervention: 30:59–31:42
• Rehab & Identity Discovery: 36:38–39:59
• Why Men Don’t Ask for Help: 41:03–42:24
• Relapse & Ongoing Recovery: 47:29–49:50
• Daily Practices & Inspiration: 51:05–52:09
• What’s Giving More Life: 53:43

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Tone & Language

The conversation is deeply personal, honest, and sometimes gritty—with both JB and Carl normalizing relapses, darkness, and ongoing struggles as natural, forgivable parts of recovery. Both men make use of gentle humor, raw admissions, and supportive, affirming language toward each other and the listener.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode is an unfiltered, layered portrait of male vulnerability, addiction, and growth. JB Copeland brings life to the oft-hidden struggles of high-performing young men, exposes the traps of performance-based self-worth, and walks listeners through his bumpy, non-linear climb to being honest—with himself and those he loves. Carl and JB’s shared experiences of addiction, recovery, and self-acceptance provide actionable empathy and a sense of community for anyone feeling lost or broken. The episode closes with the insight that recovery is a continual, evolving spiral—a process made doable by vulnerability, community, and authentic self-acceptance.

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Practical Takeaway:
Ask for help, even if you feel it will make you look weak—because vulnerability is, in JB's words, "the strongest thing you could ever do." (42:18)

For anyone rebuilding, healing, or wondering if they're alone—you're not.

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Transcript

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[Narrator/Promo Voice]

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[Carl Radke]

Hey, guys, I'm Carl Radke, and welcome to More Life.

[Producer/Announcer]

Today on the show, we've got JB Copeland.

[Carl Radke]

He's the author of Sappy Medium.

[Producer/Announcer]

He's the host of the Motion podcast.

[Carl Radke]

You also might have seen his videos on Instagram. They're incredibly inspiring.

[Producer/Announcer]

Very vulnerable, and he's very authentic.

[Carl Radke]

I cannot wait to talk to him today. We're going to dive in very soon here at Soft Bar in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, We got JB Copeland. Guys, welcome to More Life.

[JB Copeland]

Man.

[Carl Radke]

Great to have you. I love the butter yellow cardigan.

[JB Copeland]

Thank you.

[Carl Radke]

I almost wore the butter yellow. I have a butter yellow one just like this, but I was hoping we

[JB Copeland]

were gonna match, so I thought about it.

[Carl Radke]

But you as a fashion guy, a little bit. I always thought you're like, your aesthetic and your videos.

[JB Copeland]

Well, thank you.

[Carl Radke]

You always are rocking cool stuff. You and Jay Shetty are like some of my favorite vibes.

[JB Copeland]

Jay's got the vibes.

[Carl Radke]

He probably has a little bit of help.

[JB Copeland]

I have help, too.

[Producer/Announcer]

Oh, you do?

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. That's my wife, so. My wife.

[Carl Radke]

I'm sure Jay's wife, too. Roddy probably has.

[JB Copeland]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

But welcome to More Life.

[JB Copeland]

Thank you.

[Carl Radke]

Thanks for coming to Brooklyn, man.

[JB Copeland]

Of course.

[Carl Radke]

It's awesome to meet you. One of my favorite sayings, and it's something that came from reality tv, and I had this saying that I would speak out at dinner tables when I was really drunk. I'd be like, more life.

[Producer/Announcer]

No stress, more life.

[Carl Radke]

So I've embodied this as a mantra. Now in my sobriety is more like, I really live life, and I really try to take advantage of my opportunities. And one day at A time. But really just try to embrace each day and live it to the fullest. So that's kind of my mantra.

[JB Copeland]

I love it.

[Carl Radke]

I'm wondering, I know you have some different things you've said out loud, but do you have a mantra that you kind of live by?

[Producer/Announcer]

I think.

[JB Copeland]

And this is, like, so cliche, but, like, for 27 years of my life, I'm 31 now, but for 27 years of my life, I wasn't me. I didn't know me. I didn't know, you know, the drugs, the insecurities, all of those things made me not know who I was. And so mine's probably just be you.

[Carl Radke]

I love that.

[JB Copeland]

I know that's so cliche, but it's. I want to be. Just be me.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah. And I think that's so powerful because when I. Actually. Another favorite quote of mine is that it's either Oscar Wilde or Michael Scott. It's like, be you. Everyone else has already taken.

[JB Copeland]

Exactly.

[Carl Radke]

You know, And I think the acceptance and finding your own inner confidence for men, guys like us, it took some time, which I want to get into. Yes. But take me back a little bit. I mean, I played sports, too, so some of your story, I loved reading just because I love the athlete stuff. And I think there's a lot of actually addiction that can come from post athletics or even during athletics. The pressure, you know, all the injuries even.

[JB Copeland]

Yes.

[Producer/Announcer]

Kind of curious.

[Carl Radke]

Take me back to, like, you're from Texas.

[JB Copeland]

Texas.

[Carl Radke]

You come from, like, basically Friday Night

[JB Copeland]

Lights, literally Bible Belt. Friday Night Lights. I love that show, by the way.

[Carl Radke]

Great show.

[JB Copeland]

And so I went to a high school that was known for winning a lot.

[Carl Radke]

You guys have, like, a lot of NFL, Current and former NFL from South Lake.

[JB Copeland]

South Lake, Texas.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

Yes. DFW is like the pinnacle for. Which is Dallas Fort Worth is like the pinnacle.

[Carl Radke]

So you started playing football at what age were you. Was it, like, ingrained and you had a football in your crib?

[JB Copeland]

So I started playing in fifth grade, which is a little late. I had played some flag football, but. And I was the quarterback on that team. And we were just terrible. We just got smoked over and over and over again. And I just remember my mom being in the stands, and she could never watch the games. Even up through going and playing at Division 1 in North Carolina. She hated it. And so that's pretty funny. I don't know why I said that, but I started playing in fifth grade, played through middle school, and then I was really little. I was very small. I hadn't really hit a growth spurt. My dad was like, you know, 6:1, 6:2. And so I was like, maybe one day, like, puberty. Yeah, maybe one day.

[Carl Radke]

I was a late bloomer, too.

[JB Copeland]

I was so late. And the craziest thing is, I got held back in second grade. Oh, wow. And so I was a year older than everyone and, like, 6 inches shorter than everyone. And so it was so weird for me. Like, I was always, like, embarrassed of being older.

[Carl Radke]

Looking back on that time now, like, do you think that had anything to do with maybe some of the. Your identity or.

[JB Copeland]

Oh, yeah.

[Carl Radke]

Because I also felt similar. Like, I was a late bloomer like yourself, and, you know, always questioning why I was shorter.

[JB Copeland]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

Or I was a little chubbier, too.

[JB Copeland]

You're tall.

[Carl Radke]

You're like.

[JB Copeland]

How tall are you? Like, six, five.

[Carl Radke]

I didn't grow until my freshman year of college. I came back for a reunion, and most of my classmates didn't recognize me because I thinned out and got taller.

[JB Copeland]

You look good.

[Carl Radke]

But there was, like, a mental thing that developed where there's, like, an insecurity

[JB Copeland]

and you still feel short even once you're tall.

[Carl Radke]

No. You know what? I am now. I'm embarrassed that I'm so tall. Like, I feel weird that I'm so tall.

[JB Copeland]

Well, don't be, because it's a great attribute. So I love it.

[Carl Radke]

What's like, the football culture, like in Texas, for those that might. I mean, it's like.

[JB Copeland]

It's like religion.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

It's pretty insane. I mean, we would have. At a high school, we'd have 15, 20,000 fans showing up, you know, every Friday night.

[Carl Radke]

That's. This is high school, guys. Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

And the whole city would be there.

[Carl Radke]

What kind of pressure does that put on the players?

[JB Copeland]

Like, it's so funny, and I think about this a lot. It's so funny. Looking back, if I were a high school coach now, I wouldn't have acted like my coaches. Like, we're like, 15 to, like, 18 years old, and y' all are making it seem like it's at the end of the world. Yeah. I always think that that's weird how they acted because, like, it was an environment of high performance, high fear. You do not mess up. If we don't win, we suck. And, you know, you're 14, 15, 16 years old. Not that that's, like, not a good thing. I think what makes it a bad thing is, like, the culture of it was this high performance and fear. It's fear you cannot mess up. And that hurt Me, through the years, as I kept on moving up, the

[Carl Radke]

high school was also just like, I think, understanding kind of that environment of the sports and the football of it all. Yes, obviously you went to play the Division 1 sports, which I want to get into, but, yeah, go into the. I mean, you were recruited pretty highly, right?

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, my senior year, I ended up tearing my ACL 4th game of the year, and it was terrible. I was a team captain, and pretty much all my scholarships got pulled except one.

[Carl Radke]

How does that work? Like, you've gotten your letters from these teams. Do you get another letter saying, we're not.

[JB Copeland]

At that point, they just don't follow back up? No, they had called me. Yeah. And we're like, hey, man, like, we got it.

[Carl Radke]

They got to get someone who's got a better knee.

[JB Copeland]

Yes, exactly. I know. But one school stayed with me, and it was the worst team in Division 1 in CAA since, like, 1940. It's the new Mexico State, and they hadn't had a winning season in forever. And so I would say my. My junior year of high school, I started smoking, I started drinking. Trying to figure out how to deal with the pressure of not only football, but really, like, peer pressure and wanting

[Carl Radke]

to be liked and socialized. Yeah, social and fitting in and.

[JB Copeland]

And it was fun and I loved it. And so then I ended up going to New Mexico State, and it was like, no shade against New Mexico State,

[Carl Radke]

but it was party school.

[JB Copeland]

It wasn't a party. It was in the middle of a retirement town.

[Carl Radke]

Oh, man.

[JB Copeland]

And I just didn't like New Mexico like that. Not that I don't like New Mexico, but I hated it. And there would be like 15 fans at a game, and I was like, how was I in high school playing in front of this many people? And now we're here and we can't win a game. Haven't won a game in years.

[Carl Radke]

You can go from, like, here to bottom of the barrel.

[JB Copeland]

Barrel. So, yeah, I was there. I was smoking weed every day there.

[Carl Radke]

Like, how did that impact your sports performance? If you were to look back on it? Do you think it.

[JB Copeland]

I think at first, like, it didn't really impact it at all, but looking back and, like, I was not in a good place mentally or emotionally. I remember just dealing with so much anx and growing up in church, you can't really, like, put a finger on your feelings. It's like you just pray it away, and you don't ever really go deep enough to even engage with those feelings.

[Carl Radke]

Sure. Well, even being a male Too, I would imagine, like, you're just. I was raised pretty religious as well. And yeah, you pray, you show up and. But a lot of times it's like as a guy, you got to just be tough and stoic and jam it all down.

[JB Copeland]

Exactly. And you're at practice every day. You're two days, you're, you know, meetings, and there's just no time for the reflection and evaluation of yourself that you need. And so you start to numb it. And so that's what I started doing.

[Carl Radke]

And did your ACL injury kind of inform some of this usage too?

[JB Copeland]

I had already been using and at that point it was just alcohol and weed. But yeah, when I had the ACL surgery my senior year, I remember getting those painkillers and being like, let's get another surgery. Like, I'm gonna go break my arm.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

And it was an amazing feeling, I'm sure.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, I mean, I've taken some painkillers back and it was always like, you'd get it for like a dental thing or buddy of yours would have a couple extra, but you weren't taking them necessarily for really the pain.

[Producer/Announcer]

We talk a lot on this show

[Carl Radke]

about getting real, doing the work, and building a better life.

[Producer/Announcer]

Something I've been totally open about is my own struggle with an eating disorder. And if you're listening right now and feeling exhausted by constant thoughts about food, exercise, or your body, I get it. I know exactly how easy it is to tell yourself you're not sick enough to get help. But the truth is, eating disorders don't have a specific look. And you do not have to keep fighting this on your own. That's why I'm so proud to partner with Equip. Equip provides 100% virtual evidence based eating disorder treatment for all diagnoses and all bodies. You don't just get an hour of therapy a week. You get a full dedicated care team in your corner. That means a therapist, a medical provider, a dietitian, and a recovery coach who has actually walked this path and understands exactly what you're going through. You deserve more life than what an eating disorder gives you. Real recovery is completely possible. Visit Equip Health Carl to book a free consultation today. That's Equip Health Carl August is that weird stretch where it's still hot out, but you can feel the fall coming. And honestly, the first place I hit reset is my closet. Quint's helps make that reset so easy. Here's my specific thing. They're organic cotton tees. They become my layering staple. That's the piece I build everything around, wear it on its own when it's hot, throw something over it as it cools down at night and it just holds up. What got me is the quality. It feels like the kind of tea you'd pay a fortune for at a designer label. And Quince has it for a fraction of that. I use it and you should too. That's kind of their whole deal. Fewer, better pieces made with premium materials and built to last. Everything's priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for the quality, not the markup. And it's not just clothes at this point.

[Carl Radke]

It's become my go to for bedding,

[Producer/Announcer]

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[Carl Radke]

Now, did you think at all about this? Like you're drinking and using at that time? Was it like a problem or.

[JB Copeland]

The only thing I was scared about was getting tested from the school. You know, the NCAA at that time tested for steroids.

[Carl Radke]

Yep.

[JB Copeland]

And the school tested for marijuana or any other type of illegal drugs that you were doing. And so luckily I wasn't chosen on the drug test list. A couple of my buddies were and they got caught. And so I was playing with fire at freshman year at New Mexico State. But so I ended up transferring from New Mexico State.

[Carl Radke]

At what point in the your New Mexico State career is this like five months in? Okay. Wow.

[JB Copeland]

Like, I stayed there the first semester and that's it. And then went to junior college and was at junior college for. I was like, I'm just going to earn a scholarship to. I know I'm good enough to go play. Like, I have this.

[Carl Radke]

So for the, for the uninitiated, the junior college is a way to keep your football career playing, but also like be able to then position yourself to go play for another major. Division one.

[JB Copeland]

Yes, exactly. And so I ended up going to Navarro Junior College. And Navarro is known for Cheer.

[Carl Radke]

That's the Netflix.

[JB Copeland]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

Dance show. Cheer show.

[JB Copeland]

Yes. So they're good at football, but they're really good at cheer. And so that was like an hour from where I grew up.

[Carl Radke]

No way. Okay.

[JB Copeland]

So I was there for a year and I was the leading tackler in jcaa, which is the junior college.

[Carl Radke]

You're playing linebacker at the time.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, linebacker. Outside linebacker.

[Carl Radke]

So you must be an animal, man.

[JB Copeland]

So at that time I was on steroids.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[JB Copeland]

So I got on some steroids there. Everyone was on steroids in junior college. And I ended up going to North Carolina and this is where everything falls apart for me.

[Carl Radke]

So you get, you get the opportunity to go to UNC Chapel Hill, which is an amazing school. Acc.

[JB Copeland]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

I mean, cream of the crop. Yes.

[JB Copeland]

I'm riding the high at this point, but I am starting to break down a little bit mentally, emotionally. I just didn't know it yet.

[Carl Radke]

Sure.

[JB Copeland]

You know, a band aid can only work for so long and I didn't even really know what I was bandaging, you know, from childhood and those types of things. And I ended up going to UNC and within two weeks, I failed a drug test.

[Narrator/Promo Voice]

Wow.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. For weed.

[Carl Radke]

How do they test you these days? Are those.

[JB Copeland]

You had to be peeing up.

[Carl Radke]

Okay. I heard a hair test.

[JB Copeland]

Dude, that would suck further back.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[JB Copeland]

Just shave your head. You know when. When you think that you're going to get tested, the all those thoughts go

[Carl Radke]

through your head, like imagine.

[JB Copeland]

So I remember there's like all these different things that you could do. So. Yeah, I got the text and it's like, hey, be at the field house at, you know, 5:30am how much time

[Carl Radke]

do you have from the text?

[JB Copeland]

Like 10 hours. You know, it's the night before. So you're taking like niacin. I don't know if you've ever done that, but you take niacin.

[Carl Radke]

There's a thing that I had heard. You take a gatorade bottle and you pour. It's like a gelatin.

[JB Copeland]

Yes. What's it called?

[Carl Radke]

I know exactly what I mean.

[JB Copeland]

It never worked for me. So I tried everything.

[Carl Radke]

So you get, you take the tax. Yeah, you get, you fail. Is it a slap on the wrist or are you like totally screwed?

[JB Copeland]

Slap on the wrist. And you know, I'm coming in. I'm new. They needed someone to fill that linebacker role. So I'm still favorited. In the coach's eyes, they're like, you know, kids mess up, you know, it's okay. I don't know what happened. Looking back, I think I'd fought for so long to get somewhere and I had finally got there and like, it's like this inner self sabotage started to come out and like failed that drug test two weeks in. And then we go to a Frat party. And I. I literally broke someone's jaw, which was not good.

[Carl Radke]

Did you get arrested for the jawbreak?

[JB Copeland]

I didn't. I didn't. And I like, fled the scene and went back to my dorm and was just like, holy shit. Like, what am I doing? All of us in college were pretty crazy. I was crazy. My friends were crazy.

[Carl Radke]

I feel like that's what you were

[JB Copeland]

supposed to do, though, right?

[Carl Radke]

Like, back in, like, that, there was an era where, like, college was where you go do crazy shit.

[JB Copeland]

So, yeah, it ended up just, like, not going really well for me at UNC in that situation. That next Monday, we had started to spring ball. And so, like, I'm running around with.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

Which I. You talked about a little bit. I was reading about the sappy medium. Just, like, the performative stuff.

[JB Copeland]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

And I think even as, like, you're performing on the field, on practice, but also just, like, in everyday meetings and, like, trying to just show that, like, you're good, but you really weren't.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, it was. I was just. So when it came to men, like, a coach or, like, you know, a professor or like my father, there was a father wound there, and I wanted to be affirmed by a man that told me that he was proud of me. They might have said, I'm proud of you, or I love you, but the actions were different. It was like, you only like me if I'm good.

[Carl Radke]

Sure.

[JB Copeland]

And that made me be the least vulnerable person ever. I couldn't be open to these men in my life, because if my belief was if I'm open with them, they'll think I'm a failure. They'll think I'm stupid. And so really, my only outlet to be vulnerable was with the drugs, was with the alcohol, was with my buddies. It just led me down a really bad path.

[Carl Radke]

What was your favorite, like, if you don't mind me asking, what was your favorite thing to drink and use?

[JB Copeland]

Just straight liquor. It wasn't even. Like, I. I liked a certain drink. It was just, give me, like, a double. Because it wasn't really about the taste. It was about just getting drunk. Just getting drunk.

[Carl Radke]

And then you would have, like, straight vodka or straight whatever. Would you then introduce any other substances after or.

[JB Copeland]

At that time, it really was just marijuana. Marijuana and drinking. I would say I smoked more than I drank, but on the weekends, like, I would get crazy, but I was smoking every single day as I was playing probably, like, 30% of the time. And just. I wasn't in a great headspace. I couldn't I felt like I couldn't learn the scheme and I was just again, I was so fearful to mess up and I just was not playing great. Well, within like the first three weeks of the season, I got a concussion and then I'm out for two weeks and then we come back for, you know, a bi week where we're practicing and I get another concussion and then career's over just like that. And so I never really played there. I mean, I traveled to some games and I, you know, got some plays. You know, it's like everything I work for just over. I would say that was the beginning

[Carl Radke]

of like, that's when it really turned in a different direction.

[Producer/Announcer]

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[Carl Radke]

I mean, I feel like once you go from all that structure. Yes. All that kind of commitment and consistency to then.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. And it was almost a relief to

[Carl Radke]

not have that anymore because that's all you had known.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. And I enjoyed it for a minute. But there's a duality to it of also just feeling completely worthless.

[Carl Radke]

Sure.

[JB Copeland]

You know, I didn't have to get up for the morning things.

[Carl Radke]

Did you lose friends, like, because you just weren't on the team or weren't a part of it?

[JB Copeland]

I didn't lose friends. I isolated. And that's the thing that I've seen. It's a pattern in my life is I isolate. I think a lot of men isolate. You know, I was. I felt embarrassed that I couldn't be of help. I felt embarrassed that I couldn't perform. And so I'm reflecting out of me what I feel about me and I'm putting up walls around me. And within two weeks of retiring, I got tested again and failed a second drug test.

[Narrator/Promo Voice]

Wow.

[JB Copeland]

And when you fail a second drug test and I'm still on scholarship, you know, I'm a medical retiree.

[Carl Radke]

Got it.

[JB Copeland]

School still paid for. So it's like now I'm throwing away my education. Yeah. And so.

[Carl Radke]

So you can only have two.

[JB Copeland]

Well, at the time you could have three.

[Carl Radke]

Three.

[JB Copeland]

And so I had failed two. And so I was.

[Carl Radke]

One strike left.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. And. And I.

[Carl Radke]

But at that point you probably were just so like out of your mind care. It's like, when's the shoe gonna drop again?

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, exactly. And that's when things got pretty dark. I started doing like ketamine, if you

[Carl Radke]

don't mind me asking. Like, my first experience with ketamine, I did it thinking it was because someone was like, oh, yeah, do that, Carl. And I did it.

[JB Copeland]

And you just threw a straight kick.

[Carl Radke]

And I was like, what the fuck? And I was mad at first, but then I actually Felt really good. I'm not gonna lie. I don't recommend it to anybody. But for me, I was like, wow, this feels good.

[Narrator/Promo Voice]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

But I wasn't into that. But I'm curious how people started.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. It's a buddy had it. I was more of a downer's guy.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah. Like a Percocet or Vicodin.

[JB Copeland]

Or Percocet. Vicodin. Xanax.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

Really? Xanax became like.

[Carl Radke]

Were you liking that after, like, a big drinking night or. Because I would love, like, a Xanax after, like, big cocaine weekend and just to kind of, like, ease, like, a soft landing back in life.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, for sure.

[Producer/Announcer]

So it would become like, my post party.

[Carl Radke]

Get back to normal.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, no, for sure. I would use it after that. But really, after the concussions and after retiring, I was locked in my room. And so really, it was. I wasn't going out. I wasn't drinking. I was just isolating. Isolating deep.

[Carl Radke]

Did you have, like, friends that were concerned or noticing that you were or did you have, like, really good excuses and you were able to kind of, like, isolate but then still be like, I'm fine, guys?

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

Or did people start to notice, like, this guy's really not doing well?

[JB Copeland]

I had one friend Mellow, that we call him Fat Mellow. Yeah, I know. He's a great, great guy. He was a D lineman, and he was, like, the one guy that was there for me. He was really the one guy I was, like, pretty honest with. And he's seen me at my worst of worst. Like everyone else, I kind of kept at arm's length, including the coaches. It's not that people didn't check on me. Even my dad and my parents. At arm's length.

[Carl Radke]

Yep. I relate to this so much.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

It's very similar to my story. Yeah, I know. Exactly. You don't want to be weak or judged or embarrassed, so you just hold it up.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

Build a wall.

[JB Copeland]

Exactly. And so, yeah, it was. It was really just him.

[Carl Radke]

At what point are you really hitting rock bottom? Was it shortly thereafter, or was this like a series of bottoms?

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, it was a series of bottoms for. That was 2016, when I got my concussions.

[Carl Radke]

Yep.

[JB Copeland]

To, like, bottoms and trying to climb out of it. Bottoms and trying to climb out of it until, like, 2022.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Carl Radke]

Just so people know, like, I appreciate the honesty on that because, like, a lot of times when people, like, they hit that bottom, you know, you get help, and then they're fine, everything's good. It's like not everybody's story is like that. It's not a linear path. No, I had a similar story where I was like, I got a problem. I had people sit me down and tell me to go to rehab and all that. And I still didn't. And then finally it's like, okay, like. But it was like a two and a half year span for me where I, like, knew I had an issue until I actually got the real help.

[JB Copeland]

And even trying to figure out how to get help and not feeling like you can get help.

[Carl Radke]

Well, talk to me about that, like, because I think men especially, like asking for help and then getting that help. Like, even finding a therapist isn't necessarily the easiest thing. Or finding a treatment center that maybe works for you. So talk to me about, like, you're down. Darkest you've ever been, right?

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. Darkest I've ever been was a year later. So in 2017, I was a senior now going into my second semester, and I failed my third drug test.

[Narrator/Promo Voice]

Oh, fuck.

[JB Copeland]

So I got kicked off scholarship. And so. And that was just like. It's literally two years of it. Feeling like one month because I was on Xanax every day. I don't remember anything.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Just.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. And I ended up failing out my senior semester. My senior second year semester, even though my parents ended up paying for it. So I failed a class.

[Carl Radke]

Damn. How was that combo with your parents, dude?

[JB Copeland]

I'm sure that they just. I don't even remember. I just was like, I can't. And so.

[Carl Radke]

Damn, man.

[JB Copeland]

From being like, you know, a recruited athlete to a complete loser, you're like, from here. It's like Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad. Just. It's like, I remember just this degenerate loser. Yes.

[Carl Radke]

Piece of shit. Basically correct.

[JB Copeland]

And that's exactly what I was in the middle of that. And I'm going to get to your question, but I have to. But yeah. You string it together in the middle of that. Right after I got my concussions, I had met my wife.

[Carl Radke]

How did you guys meet?

[JB Copeland]

Instagram.

[Carl Radke]

Nice.

[JB Copeland]

She went to Arkansas. I went to UNC.

[Carl Radke]

Did she slide in your DMs?

[JB Copeland]

I slid in hers.

[Carl Radke]

Nice. What was the first thing you said?

[Producer/Announcer]

Hey.

[Carl Radke]

See, that's simple.

[JB Copeland]

I just said, hey. And she left me on red for six months.

[Carl Radke]

Nice.

[JB Copeland]

So I was like, whatever, make them wait a little bit. But we're from the same hometown. Not South Lake. We were in the same. From the same area. I didn't know her in high school. And so that's another relationship being introduced into this Whole dynamic of arm's length. So she got the best of me, you know, she got that side of me that was still the performative side,

[Carl Radke]

the good guy and the happy guy.

[JB Copeland]

And, you know, I'm flying her out to unc and, you know.

[Carl Radke]

You're the cool guy.

[Narrator/Promo Voice]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. But it wasn't that.

[Carl Radke]

It was all an act.

[JB Copeland]

All an act.

[Narrator/Promo Voice]

Act.

[JB Copeland]

And so her and I were. Were on and off.

[Carl Radke]

Did some of your act. Did the veil.

[JB Copeland]

She caught me.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

And, like, I lied. And it's funny. Like, I didn't have to lie to her about my struggle. She would have been there.

[Carl Radke]

She would have loved you anyway.

[Narrator/Promo Voice]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

She would have helped me, and she's the one that ended up helping me.

[Carl Radke]

And did you graduate?

[JB Copeland]

I ended up graduating in 2020.

[Carl Radke]

Hell yeah, brother.

[JB Copeland]

So in the middle of COVID I went. I finished that last class, got it done. So I got my communications degree from unc.

[Carl Radke]

Hey, great school.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. So I'm happy about that. But when I got back and I really tried to clean my life up and my dad was a pastor.

[Carl Radke]

So you're back in Texas now at this point.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. And football career's over.

[Carl Radke]

Was faith a big part of your story when you were using and drinking or you kind of also were walled up to that?

[JB Copeland]

I wanted it to be a big part, but I didn't know how to let it be. It didn't work.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah. I had a similar experience. I was very anti community like that because I just couldn't handle it.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. So there are things in my life at this point, like with my wife and me being at home to where like, there was a level of accountability and not everyone knew all of the darkness that had gone on within me. I was never honest with my wife. I was never honest with my parents. They didn't know about the ketamine. They didn't know about the acid. They didn't know about the crazy nights. They knew that I had failed three drug tests for marijuana and I had concussions.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

They didn't know about the Xanax, which

[Carl Radke]

maybe your parents might offer you grace. It's like this poor kid, head injury, career over. Maybe the marijuana helps them or something.

[JB Copeland]

That's exactly. And that's what happened, is they were like, it must be the concussions.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

And it wasn't. It wasn't the concussions, like, yeah. Detrimental. But there was an excuse that I used. And for my wife, her name's Chloe. I use that for her. And with my parents and even with my little brothers and So I just was like, I had made a decision, like, I'm gonna get cleaned up, and I'm gonna marry Chloe. Like, I have to figure out how to do this. And so I was like, the only.

[Carl Radke]

I love that, by the way.

[JB Copeland]

That's really beautiful.

[Carl Radke]

That deserves some. Some praise.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. Well, I didn't get cleaned up. I tried because I just didn't know how. But I was like. The only place that I can see myself going back into to, like, could actually help me is, like, where my dad works, which is church. And I look back and I'm like. That was just, like, so far from who I am when it comes to, like, being a pastor or, like, working at a church. Like, it's just not me. But it goes back to that father wound of, like, how can I please? How can I get affirmation? Like, at my lowest point, the one I wanted affirmation from was my dad.

[Carl Radke]

Your dad.

[JB Copeland]

And I ended up getting that. But the addiction kept on going, and I was a youth pastor at my dad's church, and I was probably the worst youth pastor ever. We just played games the whole time and had fun.

[Carl Radke]

Sounds pretty fun.

[JB Copeland]

I know. I think the kids thought the kids

[Carl Radke]

probably had a bit.

[JB Copeland]

They loved it.

[Carl Radke]

You might have diverted off of what you were supposed to do.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, I definitely diverted. I remember, like, going and having to speak or something. And I'd be in the bathroom just, like, hitting a vape at the church, like, before I had to go in and see. Wow.

[Carl Radke]

And I appreciate the honesty, man. That's what's so important, is just how raw.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. And so it was just. I'm just saying it was like, a really messy time. And my wife knew, and she's like, you're a hypocrite. Like you.

[Carl Radke]

I mean, I probably eat you alive.

[JB Copeland]

Oh, I did. I hated it.

[Producer/Announcer]

Oh, man.

[JB Copeland]

And that took me to 2022. The question of, like, asking for help. And my wife had had enough.

[Carl Radke]

Is there a moment in particular that she kind of.

[JB Copeland]

There are a few that she had caught me, you know, with the Xanax with the painkillers, and so, yeah, I remember we were staying at my parents. We had no money, and, you know, on a pastor's salary and.

[Carl Radke]

But the money you did have, you were buying.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

You could. But thinking of how crazy that is, like, so crazy. Broke ass and no money, and you'll still find a way to buy the drugs you need.

[JB Copeland]

Exactly. So we. We, like, got out of our apartment lease because we didn't have money. And this is like May of 2022. And we went and stayed with my parents for a couple weeks that lived, you know, 20 minutes away. And I remember like being upstairs, like watching Netflix and my. I just heard my wife and my mom like whispering downstairs. And I was like, oh, like, I'm not going to think too much into this. Like, they're fine. They must be just talking about girl things. I don't know.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, yeah.

[JB Copeland]

And she comes up and I was like, what was that about? And she was like, nothing. Well, the next day my dad comes up to me and he's like, hey, I want you to come up to the offices with me. And I was like, oh. And he's like, my boss's boss's boss's boss. Like, you know, he's like up there. And so I'm more worried about what he thinks than like what I've done.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Sure.

[JB Copeland]

And he just is like, chloe had a conversation with mom, I need you to be like straight up honest with me right now. And I got honest in that moment.

[Carl Radke]

What was it in you?

[JB Copeland]

I just. Well, I just said. I just said, look, at that point I was also having some panic attacks. And so I was like, I can't lie anymore. Yeah, I can't. Like, this is at the point where like, I just need help. And I just said, look, I'm an addict. I can't stop. I haven't been able to stop since 2014. And I'm a pastor. I feel like a fake. I'm your kid. I feel like a failure. I've fucked up with football. Like I'm, you know, my wife is. Wants to leave me because I can't be honest.

[Narrator/Promo Voice]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

I don't know how to get help and I don't even know what that looks like. Like, but I will. And so one thing happened after another. And the next day, like, I was in the car with my mom, my dad and my wife and they were driving me to rehab.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Wow.

[JB Copeland]

So this is like a really, like a 10, 8 to 10 year long demise. Sure.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah. Just slowly, slowly going off the cliff.

[JB Copeland]

Exactly. And just the self sat and all of these things. And I didn't understand, understand any of it at that point because I didn't know where it came from.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, but you were so caught up in everything and.

[JB Copeland]

Exactly.

[Carl Radke]

I mean, at that point, were you just, you were ready, would you say?

[JB Copeland]

I think I was ready. I was tired.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah. Was any of the usage towards the end of that even fun?

[JB Copeland]

No, no, no.

[Carl Radke]

I get that a lot. I mean, I did. I Felt the exact same way.

[JB Copeland]

It was fun for like 30 seconds. It was like the ritual of it. It was the ritual of going and getting.

[Carl Radke]

Finding it and. Yeah, that first little thing. And then as soon as it was over.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, the guilt that you have and like the shame, you know, that the addiction cycle and all that kind of thing. And so they dropped me off and like, no phone. I'm there with like 20 other guys.

[Carl Radke]

And how was that first, like 24 hours? Terrible.

[JB Copeland]

I remember, I remember.

[Carl Radke]

Were you coming off of stuff too on the way there?

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. Yeah. And so you got a detox first.

[Carl Radke]

I mean, benzo and painkiller detox is not good. Really rough because your mental side is

[JB Copeland]

like, no, it's not good.

[Carl Radke]

It's like coming out of outer space.

[JB Copeland]

So I remember saying goodbye to my wife and them being like, you're not going to see her for 90 days. They're not. You're not going to be able to contact them except, you know, a couple times on a Sunday or something like that. You're just not hitting. It's like all this has just happened. So, you know, that starts the seven day detox. You're on Suboxone and all these things. And so it's not as bad. You know, they're.

[Carl Radke]

They're detoxing you off.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

And it's so.

[JB Copeland]

I'm like, okay, you're under care.

[Carl Radke]

You're not like shivering and shaking in your corner of your room.

[JB Copeland]

Exactly. And so I was like, okay, I can do this. But it got really bad after that first week just because that's when all the feelings hit.

[Carl Radke]

Yes. So, like, what did you have to face? I mean, everything, obviously, but.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

Was there things that were really hard to face? Maybe your father or.

[JB Copeland]

I think I just didn't realize how much pain was in me. I didn't realize that I wasn't me. I didn't even know who I was. It was like. I remember my therapist asking me while I was there, who are you? And I was like, I'm a husband or I'm a son. I'm a. He's like, like, wrong. Oh. And I was like, what? Yeah. And he's like, who are you? And I was like, he's like, that's what you're here to find out. And it was just like pain from child. And here's the thing with childhood. Like, it's not like I had some crazy, terrible childhood. Like, my dad was my coach, my pastor, and you know, my father and I was kind of raised to perform. And like, look good for him and our family. He was a pastor. It was very important.

[Carl Radke]

Yep.

[JB Copeland]

Which I don't think is all bad, but, like, when you're a kid, you don't. It doesn't.

[Carl Radke]

Well, yeah, it's. It's very concrete in your body at that age. Like, I have to do this, or I'm going to disappoint my dad. And he's probably your hero.

[JB Copeland]

Yes.

[Carl Radke]

And you're everything.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. And so all of this was like. All of this came from the belief of I am not enough. At my core, I'm not enough. And I need affirmation to be enough. I need to reform to be enough, which is so crazy that that can snowball into what it did.

[Carl Radke]

So you completed the 90 days?

[JB Copeland]

I was there for 60. They let me out early.

[Carl Radke]

So you doing well behavior? Yeah. Now, would you. Would you have wanted to stay or were you ready to get out?

[JB Copeland]

I was at the point where, like, I kind of wanted to. Yeah. I don't know if you. Did you go?

[Carl Radke]

I actually, I was told to go to rehab. I did not Covid started. And that was kind of like a weird, forced rehab. But I. I went to kind of a. More of an outpatient, you know, which is still great meetings and things. But. But honestly, like, I needed rehab, but I couldn't have afforded it at the time, which is kind of also interesting. I think people forget how much those treatments so expensive.

[JB Copeland]

It's insane.

[Carl Radke]

Which is. Yeah. I mean, I. I was fortunate and not everybody has to go, but I was certainly sat down by.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

People that loved me and said, you need to go. And I was like, see, it's funny. When I first got sat down, I was like, oh, it's just my drinking. And you're like, just for drinking, Carl. I was like, the way they said it, I, like, unraveled.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. No, for sure. And that's why I went was to get sober. But what I came out with and what I realized is sobriety is just like the fruit of a root. Addiction is the fruit of a root. The addiction cycle. And you know it, but it's the way I learned it is. It starts, you're restless, irritable, and discontent. And then from being restless and irritable and discontent, you start to obsess and think about, how can I not be this way? How can I not be restless right now? How can I not? And then you use in whatever addiction. For some people, it's eating. For some people, it's drinking. For some people, it's xanax for some people, it's whatever. And then you go on a spree and like, this was my life. And then you feel guilty and you create a firm resolution to stop. And then you're like, okay, I'm good. And you wake up the next day and you're restless, irritable and discontented.

[Carl Radke]

Yep.

[JB Copeland]

And so the problem for me was every day was this cycle of being restless, obsessing, using guilt, the shame cycle. What they had taught me was like, we have to fix it here, where you're restless, irritable and discontent. Why are you restless and irritable and discontent? Number one, it was because of all the feelings that I was suppressing. But number two is, was like I was disconnected from, I think, myself and

[Carl Radke]

God or the creator, yourself and something outside of yourself.

[JB Copeland]

Yes, exactly. And I didn't know what that meant. I didn't understand. I didn't understand how I could be good enough. And that time in rehab proved to me that there is something bigger now. It wasn't what I grew up learning, and rehab really changed my perspective on church and religion, but I know for a fact that I met something bigger, God, like the future me within that time. I remember we would be out and I would ask for signs. And I think people that are watching, like, ask, ask for help from something bigger. Ask for signs. And I would be laying out there and It'd be like 12 at night. And we, all the boys are out there, like in the rocking chairs at the rehab center. And I'd look up and we'd all just be sitting there and I'd ask for a sign and I'd see a shooting star. And I was like, holy shit. I was like, all right. I was like, all right, God, like, if you're real, show me another one. Another one. And I was like, I don't know. Just like this peace that came over me, like there are moments like that of being shut out from the rest of everything. All of these worries that I have in life with the money and with my job and with my wife and like, I had to be taken away from that to be able to finally understand myself. The moment that really changed everything for me in rehab was a moment to where they brought this lady in to do psychotherapy, the form psychotherapy, which was like where someone sits across from you that you need to talk to and sits in for that figure. So, like, someone had to sit in for my father. And, you know, all the guys in the room win. It's a two day process and like, you you know, you watch as your friend in rehab goes through it and then you go through it as well. And so I, I had a conversation with my dad. There wasn't my dad.

[Carl Radke]

Wasn't your dad, but it was a proxy.

[JB Copeland]

Exactly. And I remember just telling him like, who I am and like that I'm not who I, I thought I was. I'm not who I've been pretending to be. Do all this because I try and please you, you know, that whole thing.

[Carl Radke]

Sure. How did that feel in that moment?

[JB Copeland]

I mean, I didn't really feel anything in the moment, but then at the end of the session, she said, I want you guys to close your eyes.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

And I.

[JB Copeland]

And she did this like inner child healing where we like.

[Carl Radke]

I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

And I was like, okay, cool. Like, I met my inner child and my childhood bedroom and that was good. Well, you know, you don't really feel anything in the moment. And then we went downstairs and a buddy of mine there made this joke to one of like the RAs there. And there was like an ongoing thing with the RAs, the guys that were working at the rehab and the guys that were there. I was just like, it was, it was like college all over again. It was hilarious. And he made a joke and I laughed. It wasn't a haha, it was like a belly laugh. And in that moment I felt like I heard a voice saying like, you're back. And so a laugh, a laugh is what kind of set me free. And it's like this. That little kid JB came back out again. Fun.

[Carl Radke]

That's powerful. Yeah, we cry a little bit. Yeah, it's beautiful, man.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, I appreciate it. And so, yeah, no, it's.

[Carl Radke]

I mean, I love it because I think getting back to that inner child and like, that's something I've had to do a lot of work on and finding comfort in that version of myself and that healing. Because like when I was 5 or 6, like I wasn't using, I wasn't drinking, I wasn't smoking weed, I wasn't doing coke and I was happy and I was friendly and I had to like really get back to that. And that's kind of how I feel like I am now. Like I'm just a bigger version of that five year old kid.

[JB Copeland]

And I can feel that your energy is amazing.

[Carl Radke]

Thank you, man. I appreciate it. But it took time to get there and it took a lot of really wrapping your arms around the difficult stuff. But it's something you've, I think, talk about, too. And your amazing story that you've, you know, now been sharing publicly, which has gone incredibly viral. I mean, that's how I first saw you. But, like, men especially struggle to ask for help. And it took you a while, but once you did, look what happened. And I'm curious. Talk to me about just, like, why you feel like men really struggle to from your now experiences so far removed from it.

[JB Copeland]

I think the reason that men struggle is because what vulnerability is, is showing your weakness. And I think that we've been taught through our life that our weakness is not okay. The bad feelings, the dark feelings, the anxiety, the depression, like, that's not okay. Like, don't share that.

[Carl Radke]

Don't share it. Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

But what strength is, is being able to have capacity as a man. The capacity to hold space for yourself, the capacity to hold space for those around you. And you can't tap into strength unless you are vulnerable. That doesn't mean that you need to be vulnerable with everyone. It means you need to be vulnerable with the people that you trust. Like, for me, it's my wife. For me, it's, you know, a couple friends. And being honest about where you are now. And I think that that's the hard thing for men because they isolate.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah.

[JB Copeland]

And the reason that they isolate is because they don't want to be known. Because if they feel like they're known, then it's going to reinforce in them that they don't believe that they're enough. If I show my weakness to someone, then my darkest nightmare is going to come true. And that is that it's going to be reinforced that the belief that I'm not enough is true. And so I think that's why men won't share, is because it's more comfortable to isolate.

[Carl Radke]

It's easier.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, but it's more detrimental. But it's the strongest thing that you could ever do is to be vulnerable.

[Carl Radke]

Agreed. Well, there's definitely. I mean, we've had guests on women that are, you know, talk about the loneliness epidemic in men and curious if you have any thoughts on, you know, someone who's kind of come so far and like, even just what you talk about on your Instagram and in your book, you're inspiring men to be more vulnerable and open up. I mean, do you think we're getting a shift here? Is it. Is there change or is it getting worse? Because I feel like I see both sides. I see this loneliness epidemic everywhere. But then I see guys like you, guys like Jay Shetty, even me trying to really Share these vulnerabilities or give space to those who want to share vulnerability.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

I hope it's helping. But then I read these articles and people tell me that it's even worse.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

So I'm wondering what you think.

[JB Copeland]

I love tapping into the positive side of things. And obviously with, you know, I see the same thing. And it's just like, I think generationally, when you look at, like, you know, boomers to. I don't even know all the generations. Names of my parents. Gen X.

[Carl Radke]

Well, I think my parents were boomers.

[JB Copeland]

Boomers.

[Carl Radke]

And then there was a Gen X that was my brother. Millennial or Gen Z?

[JB Copeland]

It's crazy to see when you. When we look at, like, the demographics of. And I've talked to a lot of people in the space, like, what you're doing here and like, in the mental health space and the demographics, no matter what age the creator is or what age, the demographics are heavy. 25 to 35. And it's this. I think the millennial Gen Z generation is saying, like, there's gotta be something more. And so I think that that's really great. Not saying that the older generations aren't doing that, but I do think that, like, the way that they were raised taught them to isolate, to not share. And so now we're growing up and we're saying. And we were taught the same thing from our parents and because of what we've learned via. Through social media, and we're like, oh, there has to be something more. I need to open up. It's okay to open up. And so I see my little brothers caring. I see my little brother, like my youngest brother, he's nine years younger than me, like, calling me and telling me about the things he's working through. And it's like a lot of those guys, I think, are not saying that there still aren't others.

[Carl Radke]

Sure. But you're seeing another.

[JB Copeland]

I think that there's a shift in our world and with these millennials and Gen Z, that people want to just be real. They want to be themselves. And you can't be real in yourself if you're not vulnerable.

[Carl Radke]

Totally. Well, I mean, I think authenticity is a. I mean, community. Authenticity. These are like the big buzzwords. But authenticity especially, I would imagine, for you, you know, once you kind of, like, really proudly share that on social.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

Did it surprise you, the people that were engaged with the authenticity that you shared, or did it?

[JB Copeland]

Well, it surprised me. My thoughts were authentic, and my thoughts were coming from things that I wish I would tell Myself, you know, and my story. And it surprised me because of the amount of people that reached out and said, I feel like you. And I think that that's the coolest thing that I've realized is that we are connected by feeling. We're connected by the excitement, we're connected by the anxiousness. Feeling is a universal language and all of our stories are different. And so it's like I can say, I feel you. Like you can hear my story and say. And so I think that that's what surprised me is that if I can communicate.

[Carl Radke]

So well said. Because, like, not the same story, but I feel exactly what you're saying.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah.

[Carl Radke]

So sorry.

[JB Copeland]

I'm going to communicate a feeling. And I think that that's what I've tried to do is how do I make a video and communicate, you know, comfort or how do I communicate empowerment? How do I communicate overcoming, like, how do I do this? And that's been my goal throughout my videos is connecting at the universal language touch point, which is the feeling.

[Carl Radke]

Yes.

[JB Copeland]

The inspiration.

[Carl Radke]

I mean, the control freak part of it. Like, let's talk about that because I think, you know, people might view jb. You got it all figured out. No, And I feel sometimes in a similar, like, you know, we can present as maybe all knowing or like this Buddha martyr.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, no.

[Carl Radke]

And I always try to just, you know, operate from a place of. I just know what works best for me. Sure, I have some emotions and feelings, but. But do you ever feel like an imposter at times or feel like you're completely. Yeah. Okay, good.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. So.

[Carl Radke]

Because I feel like that a lot. And it's something I ask a lot of my guests.

[JB Copeland]

No, I'm glad that you asked. So I grew pretty big over a year. So from like 23, 2023, May of 2023 to 2024. And in the summer of 2024, I decided to, like, leave. I was doing like a creative direction job at the time. Like, I wasn't making money off of social media. So, like, I had just like been like, yo, I'm a creative director now and was. Had clients and things like that and leaving to like focus on my brand. And I didn't know what to do. And I remember finding myself back at this place of feeling very not good enough and me having a million and two followers and my wife and I being 20 grand in debt. And I felt like a stupid businessman and I felt like a stupid person. And I was like, how am I?

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, like you're a fraud.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, like, no, One wants to listen to me. And I went and got a Xanax prescription in 2024.

[Carl Radke]

Wow. I couldn't sleep now at that time. I mean, I've. There's a lot of different thoughts on this, but, like, I've met some folks in rehab or. Sorry, in recovery that are prescribed, like, a mood stabilizer, and they're open about that with their sponsors, and they're still sober. Would you say that you were still sober or.

[Narrator/Promo Voice]

No.

[JB Copeland]

Okay. No. The panic attacks came back, and I couldn't sleep at night, so I had a reason. And I told my wife, like, Like, I have to get this. And she was like, it's fine. Like, you. I, I.

[Carl Radke]

You're being open about it.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, I was being open.

[Carl Radke]

I was not hiding.

[JB Copeland]

Well, that turned into, like, up until April of 2025.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Wow.

[JB Copeland]

And so August of 2024 to April of 2025, I was. I wasn't abusing Xanax, but I was taking them nightly, and it just didn't sit right with me. And so I went back to detox, and there was a detox right down

[Carl Radke]

there, so claps to that, man went

[JB Copeland]

to detox and was there for seven days. I detoxed off of it.

[Carl Radke]

How hard was that? I feel like it would be harder that next go round because you were. You've done so much work.

[JB Copeland]

It was just funny. I went there and, like, it's like five people knew who I was.

[Carl Radke]

Oh, I know you'd already gotten to that level now. And they were like, what are you doing here?

[JB Copeland]

Therapist knew who I was. They're like, are you here to speak? And I was like, no, no, I'm getting. But, like, I think that that's what makes me me is like. Like, I'm just gonna be honest, and

[Producer/Announcer]

we need that man.

[Carl Radke]

I'm not a light switch.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. I'm not a guru. I don't want to be one. And I'm not. I'm not a coach. I'm not a therapist. I'm not licensed in any of that stuff. I'm more of like a. A brother. And I think that that's my brand is, like, I struggle just like everyone else. And. And I think healing is an upward spiral, and I think that we go through times of darkness and light, I think, in growth and evolution, over and over again. And like, that year from 2024 to 2025, grew me in ways that I never would have grown outside of that. It's part of the journey, and I've had to have grace with myself. You know, I couldn't sleep. Probably shouldn't have gone on Xanax, but I did. And. But I was honest. I was honest with my wife. I was honest with my dad the time before. I wasn't. And I got help.

[Carl Radke]

But that story, I think just even it's so. I think, relatable because I think, you know, people go to rehab and they don't always stay sober. Yeah, but not everybody tells that story, you know, like, even the relapses or the ups and downs, like, it's so important that you tell that because I think people just assume, you know, just like this.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. I think the struggle. I think the hard times that we walk through, the darkness that we walk through is what makes us. It's what shows us just the light 100 and being able to work through that and. And be honest about it. And the world is a crazy place. It has a lot of ways to numb. There's so many different avenues in this world. It's not the 1800s. We're not sitting out in the cabin and have nothing to do.

[Carl Radke]

Like, sometimes I wish we did.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, I know. And so it's. You feel discomfort. Okay, well, I'm gonna numb on Netflix. You feel discomfort. Okay, well, I'm gonna go, you know, find a Xanax if you. And so it's. Everything is just right there. I'm not saying that we should. We should do this, but I'm saying that we should have grace for ourselves and be honest about where we're at. You know, I don't plan on using Xanax again. You know, I feel like I got that out of my system and I feel like I'm in a better place now.

[Carl Radke]

What are your kind of holistic. I like to ask my guests, you know, what are things you do every day that are kind of your non negotiables?

[JB Copeland]

Number one, I love asana sun home saunas. Sent me a sauna.

[Carl Radke]

Oh, yeah.

[JB Copeland]

And I freaking love it.

[Carl Radke]

Are you a daily sauna guy?

[JB Copeland]

Daily sauna guy. I have an ice bath that I do. I don't ice bath every day.

[Carl Radke]

I should, but I went to an ice bath yesterday. I'm still a little bit of a baby. I did it, but I'm like, exactly.

[JB Copeland]

And yeah, it's sometimes a little bit too cold. I like to work out like three, four, five times a week. Just depends. And I'm just a very simple. I can't really like schedule myself because I don't do it. If I schedule. I'm very ADHD. But there's a breath work on YouTube by Wim Hof and it's 11 minutes long. And if you just look up Wim Hof breathwork, it's the one that's 11 minutes that has helped me tremendously.

[Carl Radke]

Is there a time of day that you do the breath work starting or ending?

[JB Copeland]

It'd probably be best if I did it in the morning, but I don't. So I'll do it when I'm in the sauna or like whenever you get a moment. Yeah, when I get a moment.

[Carl Radke]

But that's the honest dvd. When I first started hearing about meditation, I thought you had to sit with your legs crossed and with your eyes closed and do this. Exactly. I realize you can actually not do that and still have a good session or.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, I think all those things are very important, but I think what's most important is inspiration. And when we live in our head so much, it's hard to be inspired. When you're in your head, you're dead. And so I think for me, what I really try and do daily is how do I find a feeling? How do I get from my head to my heart? I know this doesn't follow all the other wellness stuff of do this, but like, I like to watch a movie that's going to make me feel something. Music that makes you feel something, a conversation that makes you feel. I think the magic is in the inspiration is in the excitement. And so I call that state shifting from I've got all this going on in my head. What do I need to do to like find inspiration and get into my heart? And for me, it is arts music. You know, sometimes it's working out, but really it's more how do I get inspired?

[Carl Radke]

And I feel like it's with sobriety has kind of made you cherish and appreciate those things that I'm sure when you were drinking and using, you weren't. I mean, maybe music was a thing, but you probably didn't listen to the music. Really.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah. It's hard to find that inspiration when you're numbing.

[Narrator/Promo Voice]

Exactly.

[JB Copeland]

You know, you're disconnected.

[Carl Radke]

But yeah, I draw. I mean, music for sure. Art and different. Like food even like you get.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yes, food.

[Carl Radke]

I really appreciate these things where in the past, I mean. Cause all the cocaine I did, I wasn't eating anything. But now I'm like, I love food.

[JB Copeland]

Yeah, exactly.

[Carl Radke]

Because I appreciate, you know, whether it's the flavors or whether the culture, the story behind it. Yeah, I love that. Well, you're inspiring me now, man. And A lot of your stuff you're doing is inspiring.

[JB Copeland]

Thank you.

[Carl Radke]

I have one last question, actually, which is something I ask all the guests. The concept of more life, what's giving you more life right now?

[JB Copeland]

What is giving me more life right now is right now I'm working on a book. It's like two years away. But being able to work on that book right now and find the inspiration to do that has been a ton of fun. The other thing that's given me more life is my wife. And we just got a new puppy.

[Carl Radke]

Hell, yeah.

[JB Copeland]

And I think kids are on the way pretty soon. I want to be a dad. I'm excited for family. Just the things close to me. My wife, my family, my brothers.

[Carl Radke]

Yeah, I love it, man. Well, I appreciate you coming in, jb.

[JB Copeland]

Thank you.

[Carl Radke]

Seriously impressive what you're built. And your story is certainly going to help a lot of people. It's helping me. I love hearing the family dreams and all your wife support. She deserves a lot of acknowledgement, for sure. I think a lot of times when I've had guests on, it's the loved ones in the lives of people who struggle or have had ups and downs that sometimes get forgotten about.

[JB Copeland]

And she's been that.

[Carl Radke]

She's been a warrior and rock star. So you've got to shout out your wife and all the other close friends and people who support you. But I love you, jb. I appreciate you, man.

[JB Copeland]

Yes. We'll do this again.

[Carl Radke]

Thanks for coming on for sure. Thank you for hanging with me on More Life today. Check us out wherever you get your podcasts, Spotify, YouTube.

[Producer/Announcer]

Please, like, subscribe all the good things.

[Carl Radke]

Check us out next time here at Soft Bar in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.

[Producer/Announcer]

More Life is produced by Annie Siegel

[Carl Radke]

and executive produced by Adam Reynolds of Denim Pictures.

[Producer/Announcer]

This episode was directed by Annie Siegel, edited by Mikey Ortiz, and recorded at Soft Bar Studios in Brooklyn, New York. More Life is a production of Sony Music Entertainment from Sony.

[Carl Radke]

Our executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay.

[Producer/Announcer]

Original music by Function Atoms, sound mixing by Ian Sorrentino, set design by Michael Ignacio, publicity by Caitlin Healy, additional support from Abby Sharp, and a special thanks to Allyson Chano and Joanna Orland. New episodes drop every Tuesday.

[Carl Radke]

We'll see you next time.