Diet Coke Habit

Summary

More or Less – "Diet Coke Habit" (December 15, 2017)

Host: Jordan Dunbar (BBC Radio 4)
Main Theme:
This episode delves into the meaning of wildfire "containment" statistics, prompted by intense California fires, and explores the health and psychological implications of drinking substantial amounts of Diet Coke—sparked by reports about President Donald Trump’s alleged consumption.

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1. Understanding Fire "Containment" Statistics

[00:00–03:09]

Key Points:

• Listener Question:
  Dan Keller in California asks what it means when a wildfire is reported as, for example, “50% contained.”
• Statistical Context:
  • In 2017, California experienced 8,871 fires, covering over 1 million acres.
  • At the time of broadcast, the Thomas fire had reached more than 230,000 acres.

Insightful Explanation:

• Rob Gazzard, Wildfire Advisor, Forestry Commission England:
  • Defining Control Lines:

    “A control line is where you take away the vegetation... down to what are called the mineral soil. So there’s actually no vegetation left to burn.” (02:02)

  • Difference Between Contained and Controlled Fires:

    “A contained fire is where a control line has been put in around the perimeter of the fire in order to help it stop spreading. A controlled fire is where that control line has been completed all the way around the perimeter and firefighters...start cooling down...hot spots within.” (02:25)

  • When Is It Safe?

    “Ideally, you should only really approach an area where a wildfire has been when the fire is what is defined as being out... no hot spots left.” (02:58)

Memorable Clarification:

• Jordan Dunbar:

  “If a fire is 50% contained, it means 50% of the fire’s perimeter has control lines around it. So contained is definitely not synonymous with controlled.” (02:43)

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2. The Diet Coke Habit: Trump’s Consumption and Health Effects

[03:09–06:15]

Key Points:

• Trigger for Segment:
  • News reports claim President Donald Trump drinks a dozen Diet Cokes a day.
• Popularity of Diet Coke:
  • Sarah Bleich:

    “About 1 in 5 Americans drink Diet Coke...that trend has been true since about 1999 and persists up until about 2014.” (03:52)

  • 28 million Americans consumed Diet Coke in a seven-day period in 2017.

Caffeine Content and Health Recommendations:

• Jordan Dunbar:

  “[Trump] consumes 504 milligrams [of caffeine] a day. That’s equivalent to about five cups of coffee. But US authorities recommend you don’t exceed more than 400 milligrams a day…” (04:59)

• Potential Health Effects:
  • Peter Rogers:

    “He appears to have a somewhat impulsive personality...when you add to that…that he’s drinking a lot of highly caffeinated beverages, that may increase his stress and anxiety.” (05:27)

  • Sarah Bleich:

    “Caffeine, also in large amounts, can make us feel a bit anxious and jittery, but we also become tolerant to that effect.” (05:56)

Key Takeaway:

• Science doesn’t definitively support significant harm from high Diet Coke intake for the average person, but moderation is advised.

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3. The Psychology of Diet Coke Dependence

[06:15–08:39]

Interview: Lord Charles Faulkner, Diet Coke "Addict"

• Introduction:

  “My name is Charles Faulkner. I’m a member of the House of Lords...I am a Diet Coke addict.” (06:27)

• Morning Routine:

  “Once that taste of toothpaste is in my mouth, I immediately want a Diet Coke.” (06:44)

• Daily Intake:

  “I think I would drink maybe 15 Diet Cokes a day.” (07:08)

• Rituals and Preferences:

  “There is nothing more pleasurable than...that a can has been opened.” (08:13)

Behavioral Insights:

• Substitution of Other Habits:

  “I stopped eating any meals during the day and only eat an evening meal and stopped drinking alcohol. The displacement activity became drinking Coke...” (07:31)

Humorous Exchange:

• Jordan Dunbar: “Have you ever been tempted to go from cans onto something harder, like bottles?” (08:09)
• Lord Faulkner: “No, because an element of the addiction for me does involve the ritual.” (08:13)

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4. Final Thoughts & Public Health Note

[08:39–08:59]

• Jordan Dunbar:

  “While it isn’t yet proven that Diet Coke can have a detrimental effect on your health, it’s probably not a good idea to chug 15 a day.” (08:39)

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Notable Quotes

• Rob Gazzard:

  “A contained fire is where a control line has been put in around the perimeter of the fire in order to help it to stop spreading.” (02:25)

• Peter Rogers:

  “That may increase his stress and anxiety. It adds to this story about how much thoughtfulness is being put into the messages that are coming out through the tweets.” (05:27)

• Lord Charles Faulkner:

  “Needs it, yeah. I’m completely addicted and genuinely. So...I’ve had two Diet Cokes already today.” (07:08) “It is a sort of prop. Other people might use cigarettes or alcohol. I used Diet Coke.” (07:31)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Wildfire Containment Explained: 00:00 – 03:09
• Diet Coke Popularity & Trump’s Consumption: 03:09 – 06:15
• Diet Coke Dependence (Lord Faulkner Interview): 06:15 – 08:39
• Public Health Summary & Outro: 08:39 – 08:59

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Summary:
The episode expertly blends statistical myth-busting with real-life anecdotes—explaining the misunderstood terminology of wildfire containment, using clear expert insight, before pivoting to the cultural and health debate around Diet Coke. Engaging interviews and humorous asides, especially from Lord Faulkner, keep the tone accessible while grounding the discussion solidly in evidence and expert opinion.

Transcript

[Jordan Dunbar]

Thanks for downloading this edition of More or Less in the World Service. We hope you enjoy it. Hello, I'm Jordan Dunbar and welcome to More or Less on the BBC World Service. Insert your Tim Harford style number joke here. This week we received an email that we thought needed an answer. Love your program, have been a faithful listener for years. Here's a question for your consideration. Here in California, we're suffering horrific fires. What does it mean when we're told that a fire is, say, 50% contained? Does it mean it'll soon be extinguished? Thank you, Dan Keller. As of December, the California Department of Forestry and Fire protection and the US Forest Service have fought 8,871 fires in 2017. The fires covered areas totalling over 1 million acres in October 2017. Total 20,000 people in North California had to be evacuated due to wildfires. In December 2017, the downslope winds known as the Santa Ana were unusually powerful, causing wildfires to break out in the southern part of the state. Currently, the largest fire is the Thomas fire, which has at the time of broadcast grown to over 230,000 acres. Firefighters, as they do on these things, working non stop. The brush fire has burned 5,000 acres.

[Sarah Bleich]

It is only 10% contained.

[Jordan Dunbar]

Well, there's more progress against the Placerita fire happening in Santa Clarita. It is now 75% contained rather and is being held at nearly 800 acres. News reports have been covering the devastation, but the language used has confused some listeners. Firefighters often refer to a fire being 50% contained, but what does that actually mean? We spoke to Rob Gazzard, Wildfire advisor for the Forestry Commission, England. He's been in California helping to tackle the wildfires. He says to understand the percentage contained, first of all, you need to understand what a control line is.

[Rob Gazzard]

So a control line is where you take away the vegetation on the top down to what are called the mineral soil. So there's actually no vegetation left to burn. And that line or that area, either created by hand tools or by bulldozers, helps surround and helps contain the fire.

[Jordan Dunbar]

So effectively, the firefighter works to trap the fire within a certain area. But does that mean it's controlled?

[Rob Gazzard]

A contained fire is where a control line has been putting around the perimeter of the fire in order to help it to stop spreading. A controlled fire is where that control line has been completed all the way around the perimeter and firefighters are moved in to start cooling down what is called hot spots within the fire area.

[Jordan Dunbar]

If a fire is 50% contained, it means 50% of the fire's perimeter has control lines around it. So contained is dead. Definitely not synonymous with controlled. But if you hear a fire is controlled, is it safe to return to the area?

[Rob Gazzard]

Ideally, you should only really approach an area where a wildfire has been when the fire is what is defined as being out. So there's no hot spots left and all fires have been suppressed within the perimeter of the fire.

[Jordan Dunbar]

For our next story, we stay in America and look at a different kind of Donald Trump story. Cue the music. I like to teach the world to sing, sing with. Over the last year, we've been keeping an eye on President Donald Trump and his sometimes statistically dubious statements. We've debunked many, but this week has thrown up almost literally a new surprise statistic. The New York Times reported that President Trump drinks a dozen Diet Cokes a day. And that doesn't sound healthy.

[Peter Rogers]

Right now, about 1 in 5Americans drink diet Coke and that has remained pretty flat. So that trend has been true since about 1999 and persists up until about 2014. And these are adults roughly over the age of 40.

[Jordan Dunbar]

Sarah Bleich, professor of Public health at Harvard University so we know it's popular. In fact, the number of people in the US who consumed Diet Coke within a seven day period reached 28 million in 2017. But most people don't drink 12 a day. But is it actually bad for you? I mean, it has the word diet in it, which means they take out the sugar, but it also has a third more caffeine. And caffeine is the world's most consumed psychoactive drug.

[Sarah Bleich]

The primary action of caffeine in the body is to block adenosine receptors, which function to adjust how various neural systems in the body work, both in the brain and in blood vessels, for example. But in the brain, caffeine interacts with various systems, including brain systems that control sleep and wakefulness.

[Jordan Dunbar]

Based on his alleged Diet Coke intake alone, the president consumes 504 milligrams a day. That's equivalent to about five cups of coffee. But the US authorities recommend you don't exceed more than 400 milligrams a day. In Europe, the recommended figure is 300 milligrams. Might this extra caffeine have an effect on the president's health? Sarah believes there is some evidence to prove it may affect him.

[Peter Rogers]

He appears to have a somewhat impulsive personality, and that is obviously realized through his many tweets that happen in late hours of the night or early hours in the morning. And so when you add to that story, this notion that he's drinking a lot of highly caffeinated beverages that may increase his stress and anxiety. It adds to this story about how much thoughtfulness is being put into the messages that are coming out through the tweets.

[Jordan Dunbar]

The key word is may. I spoke to Peter Rogers, professor of biological psychology at the University of Bristol.

[Sarah Bleich]

Caffeine, also in large amounts, can make us feel a bit anxious and jittery, but we also become tolerant to that effect. So with regular caffeine consumption, unless we're consuming very large amounts, we won't be feeling anxious, and indeed, we won't be feeling particularly more wakeful either.

[Jordan Dunbar]

The science doesn't really point to there being a problem, but that's the numbers. But what is it like to be psychologically dependent on Diet Coke? We managed to get this harrowing testimony.

[Charles Faulkner]

My name is Charles Faulkner. I'm a member of the House of Lords. I was the Lord Chancellor from 2003 to 2007. I am a Diet Coke addict.

[Jordan Dunbar]

Let's just start off talking about the first Diet Coke that you had this morning. When did you have it?

[Charles Faulkner]

I got up, I showered, I brushed my teeth, and now my body is so conditioned that once that taste of toothpaste is in my mouth, I immediately want a Diet Coke. So I had a Diet Coke the moment I got downstairs.

[Jordan Dunbar]

Does that not affect the flavor?

[Charles Faulkner]

It does, yeah. So it's a mixture of peppermint and Diet Coke. I like that. That's okay.

[Jordan Dunbar]

Okay. So your body now needs it.

[Charles Faulkner]

Needs it, yeah. I'm completely addicted and genuinely. So we're having this interview at about 2 minutes to 11. I've had two Diet Cokes already today. The intensity of my intake of Diet Coke gets quite strong around lunchtime. I don't eat any food, but I drink quite a lot of Diet Coke. I think I would drink maybe 15 Diet Cokes a day.

[Jordan Dunbar]

15, 15. And Donald Trump has 12 a day.

[Charles Faulkner]

Exactly. It is a sort of prop. Other people might use cigarettes or alcohol. I used Diet Coke. The way I got into this addiction was I used to eat three meals a day and drink alcohol. I was 16 or 17 stone. I'm only 5 foot 10. I wanted to lose weight, so I stopped eating any meals during the day and only eat an evening meal and stopped drinking alcohol. The displacement activity became drinking Coke and I was left with this addiction on Diet Coke.

[Jordan Dunbar]

So I think it's fair to say then, Lord Faulkner, you do have a Diet Coke habit.

[Charles Faulkner]

I definitely have a Diet Coke habit, yes. A very, very bad Diet coke habit.

[Jordan Dunbar]

Now, have you ever been tempted to go from cans onto something harder, like bottles?

[Charles Faulkner]

No, because an element of the addiction for me does involve the ritual. So there is nothing more pleasurable than

[Jordan Dunbar]

that a can has been opened. What happens if you don't get them? What happens if you can't drink 15 to 20 a day?

[Charles Faulkner]

I occasionally have a mint tea, but that, I mean, that doesn't really compare with the pleasure of Diet Coke.

[Jordan Dunbar]

A very brave and candid Lord Faulkner there. Well, while it isn't yet proven that Diet Coke can have a detrimental effect on your health, it's probably not a good idea to chug 15 a day. That's all we have time for this week. My thanks to all of our guests. We'll be back with you next week. And if you have a question you'd like us to investigate, email More or [e-mail] thank you for downloading this edition of More or Less. The producer was Lizzie McNeil and I've been the presenter, Jordan Dunbar. If you enjoyed this program, you might also be interested in other World Service podcasts like this.

[Sarah Bleich]

Our brand new podcast series, the Assassination, is about an unsolved murder with global ramifications. It's an investigation into the assassination of one of the world's most prominent politicians, Pakistan's Benazir Bhutto. Subscribe now and you won't miss episode one. Search for the assassination where you get your podcasts.