More or Less: Behind the Stats

Episode: Is the world getting less miserable?
Date: October 4, 2025
Host: Tim Harford (BBC Radio 4)
Theme: The episode investigates the recent mass disappearance and alteration of US government data sets, particularly those relating to sensitive or politically charged issues, and reflects on why trusted, accessible data matters so much for policy, business, and vulnerable populations.

Episode Overview

Tim Harford and the More or Less team examine the sweeping removal and alteration of US government statistical data beginning in early 2025. Through interviews with data experts Maggie Levenstein and John Cubali, the episode explores the causes, real-world implications, and ongoing uncertainties of data loss—particularly for groups whose vulnerabilities are often first seen through statistics. The show emphasizes the foundational role of data for policymakers, researchers, and the general public in making sense of the world and ensuring accountability.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Disappearance of Government Data (01:08–03:19)

• Trigger: Early February 2025 saw thousands of US government data sets and webpages vanish, notably from the CDC, NIH, and Census Bureau.
  • Tim Harford: "Some 8,000 government pages and 3,000 data sets had been taken down. Since then, many have been reinstated, but some have not."
• Cause: Executive orders by President Trump at the start of his second term targeted diversity, inclusion, and climate change content on federal websites.
  • Maggie Levenstein (02:21): "Lots and lots of data sets disappeared from access because... executive orders from the president questioning what could be made available."

2. Intentional Data Suppression and Alteration (03:30–04:29)

• Budget Cuts & Firings: Significant numbers of federal employees responsible for maintaining and producing data were fired, undermining data access and collection.
• Data Alteration: Some restored datasets were found to be changed, particularly to obscure information on gender identity, vaccines, sexual behavior, or climate.
  • Maggie Levenstein (04:03): “There were actual decisions... to alter them to obscure information about gender identity or about vaccines or about sexual behavior or about climate...”

3. Consequences of Lost or Altered Data (04:29–05:56)

• Impact on Social Support: The inability to track certain populations—such as nonbinary teens—means their unique risks and needs become invisible.
  • Tim Harford (04:29): "Some might see the eradication of the nonbinary gender category as purely a symbolic move. But ... teenagers who identify as nonbinary are more likely to be more vulnerable... That’s something we couldn't have known without collecting the data."
  • Maggie Levenstein (04:55): "When we don't have that information, it's much harder to provide the resources that people need to live full and healthy lives."
• Economic Blindness: Businesses and policymakers rely on government data for economic indicators like the Consumer Prices Index; cuts mean less reliable data.
  • Maggie Levenstein (05:36): "Businesses... rely on them to be high quality measures. ...with reduced spending... we get lower quality measures as a result..."

4. Official Pushback & Disclaimers (05:56–06:39)

• Government Disclaimers: Some websites returned with disclaimers undermining their trustworthiness and asserting new political stances.
  • CDC Website Disclaimer (~06:14): "Any information on this page promoting gender ideology is extremely inaccurate and disconnected from the immutable biological reality that there are two sexes..."

5. Threat to Public Health Data: The PRAMS Example (06:39–09:11)

• Significance: PRAMS (Pregnancy Risk Assessment Monitoring System) gathers critical data on maternal and child health.
  • John Cubali (06:48): “Prams... is kind of the gold standard for assessing... maternal and child health in the US.”
• Data Access Issues: Since 2016, newer data is unavailable; requests go unanswered, leaving many researchers ‘out of luck’.
  • John Cubali (08:13): “Any of the data from the last 10 years... that's not publicly available. And so if you did not have access to that already, you're kind of out of luck at this point.”
• Future Uncertain: Despite assurances, PRAMS’ future is unclear after the staff were let go.
  • John Cubali (08:40): "April 1, the entire prams office was essentially fired. ...really uncertain what this means for this data collection..."

6. The Incomplete Work of Data Preservation (09:11–09:45)

• Crowdsourced Safeguarding: Academics scramble to preserve datasets, but “snapshots” are no substitute for full, reliable data.
  • Maggie Levenstein (09:23): “There's some data that you can't get to at all... some data that we don't know is gone yet... data that’s been preserved, but we don’t know for sure that it hasn’t been changed.”

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the power and vulnerability of data:
  • Tim Harford (01:08): "We're the programme that delves into data, steeps itself in statistics and mulls over mathematical mysteries."
• On the intent behind data erasure:
  • Maggie Levenstein (04:03): "There were actual decisions... to alter them to obscure information about gender identity or about vaccines or about sexual behavior or about climate..."
• On the value of social data:
  • Tim Harford (04:29): "We know that teenagers who identify as nonbinary are more likely to be vulnerable to certain risks... That's something we couldn't have known without collecting the data in the past."
  • Maggie Levenstein (04:55): “It’s much harder to provide resources that people need to live full and healthy lives.”
• On the uncertainty and loss:
  • John Cubali (08:13): “If you did not have access to that already, you're kind of out of luck at this point.”
  • Maggie Levenstein (09:23): “There's some data that you can't get to at all... some [that] we don't know is gone yet...”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:08] Introduction to the case of missing US data
• [02:21] Maggie Levenstein explains the purge following new executive orders
• [03:30] Discussion of mass firings and budget cuts impacting data production
• [04:03] Data sets altered to obscure sensitive information
• [04:29] Risks of losing data on vulnerable populations
• [05:20] Bureau of Labor Statistics stops collecting CPI data from some cities
• [05:56] Government disclaimers undermine trust in restored data
• [06:48] Introduction to PRAMS and its critical role in public health
• [08:13] John Cubali details the sudden loss of data access
• [09:23] Challenges and limitations of academic attempts to salvage data

Conclusion

This episode highlights the foundational importance of trustworthy, accessible data in informing social policy, business decisions, and the health and well-being of vulnerable communities. The show demonstrates the far-reaching harm that can result from political meddling, underfunding, or outright removal of public datasets, and leaves listeners with a clear sense of uncertainty—and urgency—regarding the fate and integrity of US government data.