Why Identity Verification Matters For The Internet | Vox Americanus, GLM 5.2, Claude Fable 5 Is Back

Summary

More or Less Podcast — Episode Summary

Episode Title: Why Identity Verification Matters For The Internet | Vox Americanus, GLM 5.2, Claude Fable 5 Is Back
Date: July 3, 2026
Hosts: Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, Sam Lessin

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Episode Overview

This episode explores identity verification online, tech and cultural shifts in Silicon Valley, the role of elite networking sports, and the current state of AI model development. The hosts dive into why a trustworthy internet identity layer matters, the launch of Sam’s Vox Americanus product, changes in AI tooling and agentic engineering, and discuss the American tech community’s obsession with new trends (Padel, mahjong, Alpha Schools, Taylor Swift's "royal" wedding), all with their usual blend of candor and wit.

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Key Topics and Discussions

1. Networked Culture: Silicon Valley's Newest Elitist Fads

Padel, Pickleball, and Mahjong as Social Signals

• The group discusses the uptake of Padel among venture capitalists and founders, especially on the East Coast but with signs of spilling into Bay Area culture.
• Sam: “The media needs a new racket narrative, and so there has to be a new racket sport to feed that.” [05:09]
• Jessica: “For all of you VCs who need to know how to network, you got to pick up this sport ... or you founders who want to network with VCs.” [07:23]
• Analogy extends to poker (“the tennis of card games”) and the need for tribe formation and cultural differentiation in elite circles.

2. Why Identity Verification Matters Online: Vox Americanus

Sam's Product Launch and the State of Online Discourse

• Sam introduces his product, Vox Americanus—a service to verify U.S. identity for genuine conversations online.
  • “I've never understood why Twitter doesn't just launch the validate my ID … There's now so many services that make this so easy.” [10:57]
  • “The thing that made [original Facebook] work was bootstrapping real identity in an unsafe space … where you could have real conversations with real people. We're now like 16 generations past that. And with bots, this is a really big problem.” [11:04]
• Discussion of implementation using Stripe’s ID validation API, ramifications for distinguishing “real Americans” from bots, and the effect on quality of online conversation.
• Dave: “Why doesn't America provide and then protect American digital identity on a global basis?” [13:53]
• Questions around platform adoption and incentives—why doesn’t this exist at Facebook-scale?
• Jessica: “Are you using [ID] as a proxy for a filter?” [24:22]
• Connection to debates on American information sovereignty, bot armies, and the global internet’s impact on U.S. discourse.

3. Running for Office is Broken—and How Tech Could Fix It

Tech Founder as Politician? The Practical Barriers

• Sam recounts being encouraged to run for office and outlines why quality candidates avoid it: “It’s make the job not suck … If you provide all the infrastructure … then you get better candidates.” [16:24–18:41]
• Discussion of support infrastructures (from bill-writing to campaign management) and why tech-enabled operational support could make political roles palatable.

4. AI Models, Market Shifts & Tooling for Tinkerers

GLM 5.2 and the Open Source Model Moment

• Dave: “GLM 5.2 is a model made by a Chinese company … and everyone that I’ve been interacting with … are switching it out for Opus 4.8 and they don’t notice a difference.” [41:19]
• Sam: “This is the moment we’ve been talking about forever … why we’re kind of skeptical on companies trying to charge premium amounts of money to ... multiply numbers … this is going to be a never ending story.” [43:39]
• Ongoing shift from experimental to “core spend” in AI model use among large orgs, cost structures, and infrastructure choices—“the CFOs are back in control.” [44:53]
• Jessica: “These businesses ... are just getting that marketing hit ... But the smarter these businesses get, ... maybe it’s open source, maybe it’s buying metal, ... and I think you’ll start to see the revenues shifting quite a bit over the next six to twelve months.” [46:12–46:47]

Agents, Coding, and Accessibility

• The ease with which non-engineers can now build products—“I literally sit here and email my infrastructure and spin up everything, right? And it’s incredible.” —Sam [29:52]
• Dave: “You no longer have to speak a language that a compiler could understand … Now you just have to be able to speak a language the models can understand … you’re not too late.” [31:59]
• Brit: “Cultural fit matters way more now than ever before when the ability to be a great engineer is much easier than ever before.” [31:13]
• Sam: “This is an age that is perfect for tinkerers.” [29:52]
• Cautions about social isolation and the “loneliness epidemic”—“I’m really actually worried about it.” —Brit [33:22]

5. Security, Models, and Institution Trust (Claude Fable 5 Returns)

• Discussion about the politicization of model releases; perceived “deals, kayfabe,” and eroded trust in both companies and government.
  • Jessica: “It just seems like it’s all been very politicized ... the whole process plays out in a way where it seems like they strike a deal when it’s, like, politically worse to not have a deal.” [37:20]
  • Sam: “It’s clearly trust destroying ... everyone’s like, what the fuck? I don’t want to pay attention anymore.” [38:38]

6. Education and the Future: Alpha School/Camp

• Brit describes AI-native education at Alpha Camp.
  • Each kid’s progress is dynamically assessed and parents get dashboard updates.
• Parental ambivalence: “I think this is the future framework for education … But sometimes you just gotta let kids be kids and learn things a little bit more on the fly.” [50:42]
• Brit: “For our more ADD kid ... learning because it wasn’t a voice that was teaching to the whole class where he felt ... less focused.” [51:09]

7. Pop Culture and American Narratives

• Lighthearted debates about the “Taylor Swift royal wedding” media circus and how narratives are shaped, chosen, controlled.
  • Jessica: “I don’t feel like this needs royal wedding treatment. ... The mastery of her is that she stays in control.” [48:04]
  • Brit: “I can’t wait to debrief this next week. Maybe on our own separate special episode of the Pop Culture … More or Less.” [49:18]
• Recognition of “tribal” media and the power to spin narratives, both by individuals and media entities.

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Timestamps for Significant Sections

| Segment Topic | Time | |--------------------------------------|-------------| | Padel, Pickleball, and Tribal Trends | 03:28–07:38 | | Vox Americanus / ID Verification | 09:10–13:53 | | Political Infrastructure Problems | 15:41–18:41 | | AI Model Evolution / GLM 5.2 | 41:02–47:16 | | Claude Fable 5, Security, Trust | 35:27–39:54 | | Alpha School Review | 49:28–51:49 | | Taylor Swift & Pop Narrative | 47:21–49:26 |

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Sam (on online identity):
  “The reason the Internet worked was because there was no identity, ... We have now spent the last 30 years trying to bootstrap an identity layer on top of it to fix that.” [11:04]

• Dave (on digital citizenship):
  “Why doesn't America provide and then protect American digital identity on a global basis?” [13:53]

• Jessica (on American filter):
  “Are you using [ID verification] as a proxy for a filter?” [24:22]

• Brit (on software engineering):
  “Cultural fit I think matters way more now than ever before when … the ability to be a great engineer is much easier than ever before.” [31:13]

• Sam (on open source AI):
  “If there was ever a place to build a really powerful company, it would be open source routing, I think.” [47:16]

• Jessica (on Taylor Swift and media control):
  “The mastery of her is that she stays in control ... I can't think of a public figure that is more in control. And so, she's choosing this. And I think it's weird.” [48:04–48:23]

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Overall Tone & Style

The conversation is deeply informal, witty, and rapid-fire—often self-aware about tech community habits and navel-gazing, but always sharp about the macro implications of digital identity, AI market shifts, and cultural currents. The hosts build on their years of debate and mutual ribbing, but also unearth substantive questions about the future of internet trust, global information flows, and the blurred lines between technology, society, and power.

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Useful for Listeners Who:

• Want a handle on how Silicon Valley’s elite currently view identity, trust, and AI.
• Are seeking insight into emerging AI infrastructure trends.
• Like unvarnished tech industry talk—both skeptical and adventurous.
• Appreciate a blend of earnest societal questions and pop culture banter.

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Next Episode Teased:
A possible pop culture special on Taylor Swift’s wedding saga, plus ongoing experiments in AI education and product building.

Transcript

[A]

Cultural fit, I think matters way more now than ever before when, like, the ability to be a great engineer is, like, much easier than ever before.

[B]

I am going to play the normie on this. I like my agent. It's useful for work. I don't believe we are all headed for a future where we all need to be.

[A]

Vibe coders, anthropic, like, started getting more and more hype in Q1. I think things got viral. They've done a great job of marketing. A lot of these businesses that, like, were in the spot we were at and, like, are just getting that marketing hit to them now.

[C]

People who have smart, real opinions, but the Internet doesn't give a shit about them. You know, it's like user 87342 and you kind of look like a bot and you have interesting stuff to say, but they're indistinguishable from a Russian bot. I get no attention, no voice, whatever. More or less.

[A]

Is it no or is it yes?

[C]

We'll debate the tech that's best when we get more.

[B]

More or less, Dave.

[A]

And grip your salmon. Jess, put it all right to the test.

[B]

More or less. Why? Hello, friends. Welcome to More or Less. And we've got the full quad here pre 4th of July.

[C]

What's up?

[D]

Hey, guys.

[A]

Sam has decor in his background.

[D]

I like it.

[C]

Yeah, I do have decor.

[A]

Did you decorate your office yourself, Sam?

[C]

Of course. I'm definitely in my office.

[A]

That's called a macrame hanging, by the way.

[C]

Didn't know that. Good to know.

[A]

Yeah, now you do.

[B]

What's up? Morin's give us the lowdown because it has not been the biggest of Tech News week. We've got tech news. Don't worry. Plenty to talk about. But still, like, give us the update.

[D]

Does that mean the summer starting?

[A]

No.

[B]

Maybe. Wait, what is. Is it VC summer? May to October? Like, what's VC summer?

[A]

I don't think in AI there's VC summer. I don't have a vc.

[B]

There's no VC summer.

[D]

No.

[B]

What will all the efoils do?

[A]

Well, the LPs I think are all off because they're, you know, all like, you know, denominator effect, blah, blah, blah, waiting for the IPOs and liquidity. But VCs are still working hard.

[D]

Defoiling is kind of dead, I think.

[A]

Why is defoiling dead?

[B]

No, I know, it was a bad reference. It's paddle. That is.

[C]

No, I was actually looking at the next E foil to buy because we destroyed our old E foil.

[B]

Oh, no.

[D]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. I Think the kids need to get good at it?

[D]

Do you think people got hurt on them? Like, what. What happened?

[C]

No, I just think I. It's very simple, which is. The E foil is a great gateway, Doug, but if you get into foiling, they're stupid. Yeah. And so, like, anyone serious, like, gets off of them. There's foil drive, which is cool. There's natural foil. There's a lot of foiling things that are awesome. But E foils are worth about three days of someone's attention. And so I think either everyone tries it and spins out or tries it and upgrades, but there's no. There's no consistent. There's no way to stay on an E foil. Right. It's very churny medium.

[B]

You outgrow it pretty fast.

[C]

The reason to buy it is for children. But then again, it's $15,000 toy for children, which is like, no.

[A]

And it's too heavy. If they made it lighter, then kids and women could carry it.

[B]

It's pretty dangerous. Pretty dangerous.

[C]

They have. I've looked at this. There's. There's the new one. There are two new lift models. One is much lighter. It looks great, but it has an unshielded prop, which I'm fine with, but kind of defeats the kid purpose. And then the shielded prop one is still big. So it's like. It's like. I think it's a great thing to own as a gateway drug, but, like, it's just. There's no consistent usage passed to them is the problem.

[B]

Okay, but do you guys know what. I think our story will have come out now, but the. The information will have a blockbuster story around this time about the rise of Padel among the venture capital community. And I promise you, this is a story you want to read because we broke down the coolest clubs.

[A]

Not again. They're all in New York. San Francisco has not gotten into Padel yet.

[D]

I'm sorry, Jess, but, like, Padel and Pickleball are the snowboarding of tennis.

[B]

No, Pickle is. Pickle is. Padel has a slightly more. A warmer relationship with tennis east coast vibe.

[C]

Well, it's European.

[A]

They called it Padel just to sound like it's classier. It's like, I went shopping at Target today. It doesn't actually make it classy.

[B]

No. You can call it Padel or Padel. It doesn't really matter. Anyway, we have breaking news about Philippe Lafont's latest placement in a Padel tournament and basically the entire New York to Miami tech scene. Darakar Shawi Did I say his last name? Of Uber. You've got. What is it? Dan Sondheim, the founder of D1 Capital Party. These people are obsessed. So this is all the rage, I hear the hottest.

[D]

It sounds very east coast to me.

[A]

Same.

[B]

It is, but there are new clubs opening in San Francisco, which you'll have to learn about. Neil Meadow of Green Oaks is pushing this.

[A]

Is this like the new golf?

[D]

Isn't it just outdoor racquetball?

[B]

Kind of. It's a little bit different. And the ball isn't, like, as dangerous as a racquetball.

[A]

And indoor. You can play indoor.

[C]

They're not racquet. Not dangerous, I think. Look, here's the upshot is, people.

[D]

Sam, please clarify this for me.

[B]

A year from now, we will all be members of clubs in the Bay Area, and mark my words.

[C]

No, it's very simple. The media needs a new racket narrative, and so there has to be a new racket sport to feed that. Obviously.

[B]

I could just milk tennis for all it's worth.

[D]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, what's wrong with tennis?

[C]

No, I'll explain. Tennis is actually a very difficult sport. And it's great. It's the best. But it's like, it's very hard. Right. And it requires a lot of space and da, da, da, da. So pickle splits off as, like, effectively ping pong for people who want to pretend like they're playing tennis. But if you're a fancy person, you don't want to associate with pickleball players. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, disgusting.

[D]

Yeah, it's snowboarding.

[B]

I won a $30 kith smoothie. That's what I want.

[C]

To be clear, I actually came in second in a pickleball tournament last year, so. And I actually got a great prize for it.

[B]

Who won one? Who won one?

[C]

Oh, that was a friends one. This was a non friends one. But Jessica's very good too. But, like, people who are. The founder of D1 Capital doesn't want to associate with the plebs that play pickleball. That's disgusting. And so you have to come up with a new version. It has the benefits of pickle but can be more elitist.

[D]

It's the most east coast banter of all time, guys.

[B]

It's great. It's coming to the Bay Area is my point.

[C]

And so now we have elite non pros who will play Padel. You have committed good athletes who will play tennis.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

And then you have. Everyone else is playing ping. Pong on steroids, which again is quite fun. Like, I am not actually anti pickle, but like, I also love McDonald's.

[A]

I'm going to stick in the poker league. I'm going to be part of the tech community that.

[B]

Have you gone full mahjong yet, Brit? I can now play. I know the rules.

[A]

I know. That's the other one. All the girls are doing mahjong.

[C]

It's actually, there is a poker analogy here, which is poker is a great game. It's hard. It's hard to play poker at an elite level, right? Yes, it is. And it's kind of like the tennis of card games. And so I don't know, like what is the pickle of card games is like spit. Like there's gotta be like an speed. What is it?

[A]

Spoons.

[C]

Spoons. And then there's like the elite, which is back getting hearts, which is fun. And then there's an elite level which is getting back into bridge, which is really hard, Right? And so like you just, you have this differentiation set. Everyone needs a community, everyone needs a, you know, a culture. And they need to create differences amongst each other. And then the media loves it because they can write stories about it and make money.

[B]

This is going to be a blockbuster for us. But it's also a really important trend because for all of you VCs who need to know how to network, you got to pick up this sport, I promise you. Or you founders who want to network with VCs.

[C]

If you want to hang out with really rich people, this is a great sport to learn.

[D]

You don't need to take it up to hang out with me. I'll hang out with you at a coffee shop in San Francisco.

[B]

And you have to go to Mill Valley to hang out with you, Dave, you have to go to Mill Valley. You're going to make people go to the lodge in Mill Valley.

[C]

But Dave, you're not that rich. Like, if you want to hang out with really rich people.

[D]

What an asshole.

[B]

No, I'm just like, this is a spectrum.

[C]

I'm not either. I'm not. I didn't found D1 Capital. Like there's a spectrum.

[D]

I don't even know what D1 capital is, guys.

[B]

They're such a big tech, hugely important investor.

[C]

The basic point is this. It's like there's always these shortcut code. It's like if you happen to play polo, right, it turns out that you're going to end up hanging out with a bunch of really rich people because, like, they want someone to Play on their polo team, right? Like there's just like a thing, right?

[B]

Like, okay, this is relevant because the networks and tribes and power centers are relevant.

[C]

Look, I don't even have enough people who go heli skiing with me. It's the same thing. It's like if you can kind of.

[D]

Or just. Here's. Here's another idea. Just make an amazing product and everyone will come to you.

[C]

Yeah, but that's hard. It's much easier to learn, Padel, if

[B]

you can get like 6, 60 billion in ARR in year three. Okay, speaking of amazing products, there has been a product launch among this group this week and it has not been me. Although our app is out there if anyone wants to try it.

[C]

Jess's app is good.

[B]

Would you like to talk about your new product?

[D]

I like your app, Jess.

[B]

Thanks, guys.

[A]

I think almost all of us are launching a new product every week. But for what it's worth, it's just

[C]

that the barrier is so low.

[D]

Are we talking about Sam's America thing?

[B]

We're talking about Vox Americanus. Vox Americanus.

[C]

Vox Americanus. So look, here's the.

[D]

Here's the upshot, which, like, I. I feel like I should get a little tiny bit of credit here.

[C]

We can all take tiny bits of credit for all sorts of things. The. Here's the deal is I have never understood why Twitter, for instance, doesn't just launch the validate my ID to get a special. Like, I'm an American who lives in California, or at least I have a driver's license in California id. Like, it makes no sense to me. Like, this is not. It used to be really hard to do this. There's now so many services that make this so easy. I don't really understand why the big platforms don't do it. It's not that expensive. And like, when you think about the quality of online discourse, if you don't want to talk to Russian bots or whatever, it's just a really easy way to raise the bar on like fake accounts and stupid people and whatever a little bit, right? So I think that's probably what they should happen at some point. But in the spirit of it's 2026, I was like, look, I'll just make my own, right? And so basically this is a classic Vibe coded plus a little secret Samsung. But let's be honest, mostly Vibe coded app where like, I was like, look, Stripe is an ID service. It's not expensive. Why don't you just make it so that a. You basically have to sign up and you have to have a license on file that will tell what state you are, what, that you're, you know, have an American ID and what your real name is. And then, like, let's just have a dialogue with real Americans where we can actually talk about things we care about with people who are actually in America and not quite citizens, but directionally citizens versus, like, random bots and getting mad at them on the Internet. Now, the interesting thing which I'm figuring out, and I'm going to play with this more, there's a few things. Like, actually, the place I started was doing full anonymity. So you prove you're American, you prove you're in California. But, like, no, like. And there's some benefits to that, but it gets confusing and complicated. So the version I launched for now

[B]

is just, you're Mr. Like, OG on real identity.

[C]

I am an OG. I really care about this. I think this is the fundamental problem of the Internet. The reason the Internet worked was because there was no identity, which made it super easy to join. Like, this is going all the way back. It was born without any sort of identity layer. Fine. We have now spent the last 30 years trying to bootstrap an identity layer on top of it to fix that. Because when it actually becomes important, it really matters. Like if, like, the person flaming on the Internet is real or not, it. It really matters if they're American or not. Like, it's a very different vibe. And so, look, I was very hopeful. There was an era where Facebook was super focused on this. And I think Facebook originally, original Facebook, like, Harvard Facebook did a really, like, the thing that made it work was bootstrapping real identity in an unsafe space. Like that was it. It was Internet scary. Sandra Bullock, the Net. Oh, shit, we can bootstrap off of fast Harvard Edu and then different schools and have trust in real names and real people. And that made it a safe, friendly, inviting place where you could have real conversations with real people. We're now like 16 generations past that. And with bots, this is a really big problem. And so, like, I do think candidly, for this to be solved at scale, it's like a platform problem. It's not like me building Vox Americanus, but I also think the only way to play and advocate and figure it out is to build it. And so, like, it's cool. It works. I gotta do credit to Stripe's ID service. It's great.

[B]

Very easy sign up.

[C]

It's so easy to sign up. You put in a license, you twist your head a Few times. And it's like, yeah, that's a real person with American id.

[A]

It's like, wait, so, Sam, what's in it for me, though? Why do I need to rush to sign up?

[C]

Well, so this is the interesting thing, and I think this is like, one of the things I'm going to struggle with in terms of, like, as I evolve this and play with it, like, the people for whom this is probably most relevant, right. Are people who have smart, real opinions, but the Internet doesn't give a shit about them, right? Like, they're like, you know, it's like user 87342 and you kind of look like a bot and you have interesting stuff to say, but they're indistinguishable from a Russian bot. And so you're like, I like this. Like, I get no attention, no voice, whatever. Someone like you or me, like, we have enough of an online identity and a following that, like, it isn't that valuable for us to post to just Americans. We might as well just post to everyone. And so there is. That is like, the fundamental question is, like, in theory, I would love to have a place I put things out and I actually care about the feedback and the engagement because they are actual fellow Americans. Right? Like, that is the thing I want. And I don't really want to put things out and get flamed by a bunch of bots, which I also do like. But, like, there's that, that subtlety, the first principles, this makes sense. Is great. The badget. I want to be taken more seriously on the Internet. And so I validate my idea on Twitter is obvious and it's annoying to me. It doesn't happen. But then the what, like, if you really try to bootstrap a news service, like the exact use case of like, why I care enough is like the interesting question, right?

[D]

I think we've talked about it several times on the pod. One of my favorite hobby horses is the question of why doesn't America do this on two different levels? Like, why doesn't America provide and then protect American digital identity on a global basis? Yeah, but then secondly, why don't we do a better job of protecting the American Internet from rogue external actors, but also just, you know, just because it's free speech inside of America doesn't mean you should be able to be a citizen from outside of America and come inside of our Internet and mess around inside of our Internet. Right? And so the platform question you mentioned is one that I've never really understood. Why, say, Facebook doesn't care more about this. It might actually improve the quality of the discourse on say, threads or, you know, original Facebook, if they provided a space like this. But you know, I get it, they don't have the incentive, right?

[C]

It's complicated. And look, we've talked about this intellectually a thousand times, but it's 2026. You just build stuff. And like, the reality is like, I like tinkering and it is fascinating. The big delta from today versus even a few years ago is it's shockingly easy to validate IDs, right? The APIs are now really robust for it. There's Persona, there's stripe. Like it's so easy to do. Then rather than argue about this intellectually, the better thing is just to build stuff and see what you learn. Because it's like, yeah, everything you're saying is right and it is a hard set of problems. But I think we're just at a moment where you just do stuff.

[D]

I mean, Sam, maybe you should run

[A]

for office and use this as do it, do it.

[B]

What are you talking about?

[D]

Maybe you should extend your Harvard run from last year and all of your learnings to a higher level run for office. And Vox Americanus should be the platform that you carry with you.

[C]

So I've had a few people very flatteringly reach out and tell me I should run for office in various forms. Here's the interesting thing that I found.

[D]

I'm on the record. I think you should.

[C]

A lot of people go out there and they say, look, we want, especially on the Democrat side because they're so lost. And they say, hey, we need to find like youngish, credible ish people with reasonable views. And then like, we'll help you with your media strategy and campaigning so you can run for office. What I've said to these people is you guys have this backwards, right? In two ways. First of all, in 2026, you can't take someone who's like the nice guy liked in the community and build a media strategy for them. You need them to already have like a media footprint themselves.

[D]

That's why you're perfect.

[C]

Fine. But then here's the second part, which is the second part of my talk track is one, you can't just like find good people and like give them, you're not good enough at this. And like there are lots of people, like find celebrities and well known people that already have that. And then here's the biggest thing I think I keep saying to people is like the thing you have to solve if you want people to run for office is not the campaigning. It's make the job not suck. Like, if you had a nonprofit infrastructure which said, look, Sam, here's the deal. You should run for some whatever and you have the media voice. We'll help you develop, like on the margin, a few connections, whatever. But the real reason that you should do this is, you know, the job sucks. But we will provide like, all the infrastructure. The bill writing, the relate, like we'll do. We'll basically create a platform where you can just be the candidate to make the final decision. And we'll be like the huge infrastructure behind it that works so much better.

[D]

I thought that's what every institute in D.C. is.

[C]

No, I think that they're like, still oriented around this. Like, I don't like the job sucks too much. Like, I think if you started from the perspective, like, I want the job to suck zero. How do I make politics an appealing job? And then you backfill and get the candidates versus being like, well, we'll help you campaign to get the job and then you have to do the job.

[D]

I think the job only sucks for people who care what people say about them. If you don't care, like about all of the drama that surrounds being in the public eye, then the job might not suck.

[B]

Well.

[C]

But I'll give you a really basic, silly example. In California. I know some people who are running for office in California and like, what a shitty life trail you to be in Sacramento all the time. It's the worst.

[D]

I'm not talking about California, man. I'm talking about America.

[C]

Yeah, but let's just expand this DC is the same problem. You're like, look, here's the deal. Yeah, yeah, you have to be in Sacramento all the time. But like, we have a, you know, PC12 network and we will just like make this an afternoon for you rather than trying to get there on your own. Right? Like, that's the type of infrastructure. Like, I want briefings done for me. I want my office already set. I like, want everything turnkey so I can just drop in for. For key moments effectively. And I don't want to. I think that's the thing is like, the job is you pay shittily. It's a shitty life. It's away from your family. It's like all these things you'd have to solve for you. Just. Look, the reason that we can fix politics is like, we'll solve all the bad parts for you of the actual job. Then I think you get better candidates.

[D]

That's a fair point. You do have to like, being on the road. That's probably. It's sort of like being a musician. Like, the life is extremely difficult. You're just on the road all the time.

[C]

It's awful. And it's like, it's like even like, you know, another friend who ran for a big office recently. And like, they just didn't see their kids forever. And you're like, why would you do that for yourself? For what? For like a low paying job?

[B]

What about what David Sacks did or what Sriram did?

[C]

I mean, I mean, those aren't real jobs. Like, that is kind of a version of it.

[D]

You can have impact, right? Like, you could have impact. I mean, Sam, let's say a libertarian Democrat won next election, which is highly unlikely. But, you know, you could go do that kind of a role and have a serious impact on this. On this exact idea.

[C]

I get it. I just think there's like a deeper thing to solve here, right? Which is like, there's a. The reason they're like, why don't good people run for office? Whether or not I'm a good person, it's a separate question. But like, and I think everyone focuses on that. Well, campaigning sucks. And like, they don't have the media strategy. And boys, I'm like, I actually think you guys just acknowledge the fact the actual job sucks. Let's solve for that. And then you can backfill into the other things and find the right candidates. Like, you know, like, the thing I would want to be marketed is this job actually sounds awful. But if you will provide all the infrastructure so that it's like a great job, if that makes sense, then you figure out the rest.

[A]

You know, I think you should have a writer, like celebrities do when they do concerts. It's like, I'll do your job, but here's my writer.

[C]

And I do think there's a difference between the elected.

[B]

Exactly what Americans want from their tech politics.

[A]

Hey, if they're gonna get like a 10x increase in intelligence, I think America would do it. And by the way, I also think you should be a czar. I think David Sacks was onto something with the czar title.

[C]

No, but the thing about that is, like, I do think, to Jess's point, there are people who have, like, figured this out, how to be in the government without being in the government. And like, that is what they've done. The problem is those are not elected jobs. They're nowhere near. Like, you get to like, say some stuff and be in there with some meetings. But, like, it's a vice chairman role at best. And like, those are actually not what you need. You need better fundamental politicians is my view. Right, Brit?

[B]

Do you have any political aspirations, Brit?

[C]

You could do it.

[A]

People have also told me that I should run for office. I've always thought Dave would make for a great first gentleman.

[C]

But Dave would make a great first gentleman.

[D]

I'm in.

[A]

It's not in my next decade. I might reconsider in my 50s. We'll see.

[B]

Man candy number one. Man candy number one.

[D]

I'm definitely never doing it, but I'm happy to be the first gentleman.

[A]

I'm gonna put Dave and his agents on my opposition research team and he's gonna figure out all. All the stuff to talk about the other people.

[D]

This is why we're never doing this.

[B]

You just want Dave's agents.

[D]

I mean, look, I think the reason this conversation was interesting is it's about distribution, Sam, like, your idea is amazing. I actually want to participate in Vox Americana at scale without question. I think it would be deeply healthy for the American populace and for society. But the question of distribution. That's why I sort of threw that idea out. Like, would Trump Social or Truth Social have ever gotten to scale were it. If it weren't for the cultural movement of mega and et cetera?

[C]

Well, but I'll actually go a step further, Dave, which is Truth Social got. Because they had. There's a type of content I want I can't get on the mainstream platforms.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And the question is, very simply, for any platform, you have to provide something where, like, I'm coming here because there's something I want that I fundamentally can't get anywhere else. And I don't. Like, there's value to like the ID registration and like, there's a lot of things, but like, I don't. I have to play with how to. If there's anything to incept there. Like, it's easy for like. Like only fans easy.

[A]

Right?

[C]

You know what I mean? Like, I know exactly. I know exactly the content. I'm going to nowhere else. You know, MAGA world. Easy. Like, I know what contents I'm getting.

[D]

I think this carries that. I think this carries the idea that, like, I'm definitely talking to Americans. Like, I think that's really interesting.

[C]

No, I understand. I think that's tr. True. I just. There's a subtlety to like, but what content does that generate? The medium is the message. Like, what is the thing I'm coming for then, yes, I do want comments from real Americans. I'm Actually quite interested in what real Americans say.

[D]

I mean, I think it fits into a important political narrative right now, right? Which is like, who is American on the Internet, Right. Like, it fits into, like, the fact that, like, most of us interacting with algorithms on TikTok that are not controlled by Americans, people that aren't Americans. Like, you know, this dovetails into the immigration conversation.

[C]

I mean, I obviously deeply agree. I think the problem is, though, and I think this is like, the benefit of the problem is like, I think every thinking person recognizes that if you truly had the American Internet or like the French Internet, this can be global in various ways. It'd be so much more moderate than what you get on Twitter. Right? Like, it would. Like, ha. It would be so much more moderate

[D]

because it turns out that I don't know about that.

[B]

I mean, the human Internet versus the botan human Internet is one thing, but I found it interesting that this goes back to TikTok. Both David, Sam, you guys feel this sort of nationalist. I want to talk to Americans. Like, I understand wanting to talk to real smart people, but.

[D]

Well, Jess, it's twofold. It's not just talking to Americans. It's not being influenced by the, you know, nation state activities of external nations right inside of these networks. They're different things.

[C]

You post. I post something. Or like, more extreme, like Joe Lonsdale

[D]

or like, I just talked to Joe today.

[C]

I Love Joe. Sean McGuire Post something. The amount of vitriol and hate that you get back on it is wild, right? And like, you kind of look at it, you're like, look, this is like 95% bots.

[B]

But some of that vitriol and hate is from Americans.

[C]

But I'm not sure how much, and I'm actually not sure. I think it's actually way smaller than you realize, if that makes sense.

[B]

So you're using it as a proxy for like a filter.

[D]

Well, no one knows to double click on this. I had not confronted the bot army recently until, as we talked about, I think, on the pod. A few weeks ago, I spoke at this Dell World conference in Las Vegas and they posted a video on their. Their account and tagged me. And the unbelievable backlash against AI that like, filled my Twitter feed for days on end. And every time I would click on one of them, it was like a short name. They were verified accounts, but they all had these like, long set of numbers on the end of it. And it was very clearly bot mediated. I don't know if it was computers or whether it's people in other countries, but there's very clearly an agenda happening here, of course.

[C]

And so the problem is the thing I actually. I'm actually quite. Data center is a great example. I'm actually really curious how actual Americans think about this. You know what I mean? Like, and I'd actually be willing to engage with actual Americans on it, but, you know, the dumbest thing in the world is fighting bot state actors on the Internet and having flame water. They're incredibly insane. Like, when you see people, like, responding to bots with, like, cogent arguments, you're like, that bot is literally just, like, wasting your time. Like, and so, like, for me, like, that's the thing. I was like, I. I really think there is a place for this type of conversation. But the thing I'm quite unsure about is, like, how do you spark more than intellectual interest in it?

[D]

You know, it's a good point.

[A]

I think you have to broker a deal with one of the social networks that claims you'll get more distribution. If you sign up for this thing and verify that is 100% what it

[C]

should be like, there's no question that that's the way the world should work. And I only sort of understand why it doesn't work that way. Because it's not that hard to do

[D]

anymore or maybe partner with people who are running for president. Like, whoever's running for president, like, be the partner.

[C]

So the other thing I've been kind of playing with around Vox Americanus and what to do with it is to just be like, look, it actually shouldn't have its own. I mean, it can have a feed. What. But it really is more oauthy. And you think of it as, like, a way to prove Americanness. Right? And reality and, like, off a bunch of accounts and, like, who you actually are in scenarios that are social. I. There are ways you could think about that.

[D]

I love that.

[A]

Oh, that's what I thought it was going.

[C]

Yeah, it's like, you could do it. Like, I was thinking, Dave, you might like this. I was thinking about, like, okay, you know how, like, certain services, if you, like, want to prove this is your Twitter account, you, like, post, like, the link and then you, like, crawl it, and you basically create an index of actual Americans on Twitter. Like, is that the better strategy? Like, there's those things to play with. This is my 250th or Tinder.

[D]

I bet all the dating apps would want this, right?

[C]

Yeah, you just create. You basically create a proxy layer.

[A]

Wait, can I tell you where I want this the most? Yeah, I want this On Amazon. I want to filter to only American sellers on Amazon.

[D]

Only American sellers. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And look, I think for what it's worth, this scales globally. Like, I don't know what the French off service is, but they have the same thing. Like, we're in this era of, like, nationalism.

[D]

Yeah. For what it's worth, I'll take French sellers, Italian sellers.

[A]

Yeah. I'll take all Europeans and Japanese, all

[D]

the highest quality in America where craftsmanship matters.

[C]

And the reality is, like, this is completely against the original, like, one world, open market, blah, blah, blah, thesis, utopian, end of history shit. Right.

[D]

I don't think it is, Sam. I think it's totally fair to want verification of identity and to understand, you know, Like, I remember growing up in Montana, there was a sticker that would. People would put onto the goods that they made in Montana that said made in Montana. And Montana actually invested a lot in, you know, supporting those businesses and helping them grow. Like, it's really no different. Like, the Internet is huge, global and amazing. I mean, the speed at which OpenClaw is growing right now is blowing my mind. Right. Like, the scale of the Internet's enormous, but I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to understand who you're talking to or where a good is coming from.

[C]

100%. I just think, like, for me, like, the moment especially because vibe coding and a lot of this stuff is just. I mean, I actually. If you go to Vox Americanus and use it, it is actually pretty good.

[D]

Like, it's great.

[C]

You can do video, live recording. It's got a great Knox. It's like a pretty better than truth

[D]

Social was at launch.

[C]

It actually is pretty freaking good. And like, the fact that I could like, build that in a few days by, like, honestly on boats, like, texting my. My or emailing my bot for changes is, like, pretty sweet. And it's like, you. I just think we're in this moment of, like, just stop arguing about this stuff and build things and like, tinker and like, I think that's like the most uplifting part of all this AI is not. Is the tinkering, for what it's worth,

[D]

to shift to a different topic. I think this is a really important thing that Britt and I were on the phone yesterday with one of our founders. And this is a founder who spent years at Apple and Spotify in product roles interfacing with engineers. He definitely has 10,000 hours working with engineers. Right. 20 years of experience, very talented founder. And it's interesting how much people who were not engineers believe they don't have the skill set to work in the world of agentic engineering now. And I found myself telling him, you are more capable than you think today to do this. And that I think that people really don't realize how powerful the tools are and how much more powerful they've even become, even in the last three months. And that they should just try it.

[C]

Yeah, it's wild. So it's funny, I distinctly remember last summer being at the same place we're at now and, and like being in cursor and just like being like, oh my God, this stuff finally works, right? And like I compare that to now and it's actually insane, right? Like the level of abstraction you can work on, it's mind blowingly different. Like, you know, before I was like in like an MVC frameworks and editing file by file and now I'm like, I don't need to do any of that. I literally sit here and email my infrastructure and spin up everything, right? And it's incredible. And so when you do that you're just like, this is an age that is like perfect for tinkerers. And this has been like my most uplifting AI experience was running our bot school, right, where we basically took all of these social media influencers, people with big cults and followings. We sat them down, we gave them the tool chain, you know, how to use digitalocean, da da da, really. And like it was amazing what they produced in 24 hours. You know, I remember hackathons really, you come out and some really half working in like a, you know, four days now you can come out of 24 hours like products you can ship to your actual users. And they're good, it's like wildly different. And I think that is the most uplifting part. The like the Mega wars, like who's. They got the cheapest way to multiply numbers is all kind of boring. But like the empowerment of people with like minimal shims to build entire worlds is like wild.

[A]

The thing I was going to also say is in that conversation yesterday with this founder, Dave's talking about what it came down to at the end too. You know, he's trying to recruit his like founding engineer. Everyone's a great, a lot of people are great engineers, you know, of course some are better than others, fine. But cultural fit I think matters way more now than ever before when like the, the ability to be a great engineer is like much easier than ever before. And so it's like teaching these people how to be Human, maybe a little throwback to etiquette school, but also like having street smarts, being a cool person, high integrity, like vibing with the team. I think is, is going to matter more than ever over the next few years for teams.

[C]

Yeah, I completely agree. It's a wild moment. It's a great moment. I, it's really. This stuff is the fun stuff.

[D]

I think it's important to note that it's just not too late. Like, that's what. Talking to this founder, I was shocked by how he was like, isn't it too late? And I'm like, no. Like, the skill set of this new style of engineering is a brand new skill set that, you know, it's like as if it used to be you had to speak a language that a compiler could understand. You no longer have to speak a language that a compiler has to understand. Now you just have to be able to speak a language that the models can understand. And the models go speak compiler. And the compiler speaks to the assembler, the assembler speaks machine language. And like everything's, it's like amazing. And it's a totally new skill set and you're not too late. And though we talk about this a lot on the pod, we also, you know, I hear from people every week that listen to the pod that are entrepreneurs thinking about starting something. And I just think it's really important for people to hear that you're, you're totally capable and it's definitely not too late. And take an hour a day and just really try to learn this stuff because everyone's learning it right now.

[C]

Although I don't think so. I agree with everything you said, except for one thing. I don't think you take an hour a day. I think you binge it for like as much time as you can.

[D]

Well, Sam, I'm saying if you've got another job, if you're doing something else right, like, try to find. It's like learning guitar or something. You gotta find time to practice every day in order to make progress. Sure, if you can take your, if you can really binge into it, go for it.

[A]

But, you know, except for please stay human, because I really think we're entering the. I know we're already in the loneliness epidemic because of social media, but this is entering this new, scary, dark place, I think, where people are alone with their agents up at all hours, not having community and real social conversation. And I'm like really actually worried about it.

[B]

I am going to play the normie on this. I like my agent. It's useful for work. I don't believe we are all headed for a future where we all need to be Vibe coders.

[C]

I'm somewhere in the middle.

[D]

We know it's your opinion. We had that argument two weeks ago.

[A]

Sam wasn't there, though. Sam didn't get to weigh in on that.

[B]

I would. I just want the listeners to know that I think that, you know, we're in this exciting early adopter moment. There's a lot. That doesn't mean I think AI won't touch everyone. It doesn't mean that I don't think AI is, like, transformative.

[A]

It's gonna become invisible, is the thing that I said before, which I still stand by, which is like, you won't have to be at your computer vibe coding all night, but, like, AI in agents will be doing stuff for you no matter what.

[B]

Cool. But that's fine. But does it mean that I have to devote two hours of my day to vibe coding or I'm going to be left behind?

[C]

I think it's somewhere in the middle. I, I, I. It's pretty powerful stuff. We'll see. It's gonna be an interesting era. I think for now, it's super fun. If you have business problems you're trying to solve. I mean, Dave's line on you're not too late I think is a really, really important one. I actually hilariously started. Cause this summer I'm gonna write, like, a short Sam book that I've kind of outlined on, like, what I've learned from the investments I've made. And one of the chapters is called you're not too late, because I think it's a mistake. Even on investing, I've continuously made and, like, I've gotten a few things right where, like, there's this class of investments that, where you're like, well, I've seen this for two years. I can't believe I missed it. I loved it, but I'm too late. And, like, it just turns out you're not right. And, like, I think that's like one of my, that's one of my chapters in the book. I want to write this this summer.

[A]

Well, that's because we're seed investors, and if we, like, broke ourselves of that mentality, I think we would learn that faster.

[B]

Speaking of bots, I did log into mine today to see Fable 5 is back. So for those of you good marketing from Anthropic, they have reached a deal with the United States government.

[C]

What incredible marketing. Well done.

[B]

It's great marketing. Until July 7th you can use up to 50% of your plan's weekly usage limit on Fable 5, which is interesting, actually.

[D]

They're basically like, you know, after that, you got to pay by token, which is interesting.

[B]

What if I don't? I. The kind of stuff I'm doing, I definitely don't need Fable 5 for.

[C]

You never know. That's actually the whole business model. The beauty of the whole thing is. You're almost certainly right, Jessica, but what if the entire margin of the industry is based on people asking the question, like, look, I'm asking you to fold my fuck and then fold laundry is a funny one. I'm asking you to, like, make a dinner reservation. I can IQ 100 person can do it, but do I need to hire an IQ170 person to make the Disney reservation on the off chance it matters? Like, that is the margin of the system. And, like, we'll see how that plays out.

[B]

I definitely don't need Fable 5, but it's back. This back and forth with the government is wild, I think. And, you know, for those who forgot, this is. Fable 5 was released along with Mythos. In this case, Amazon raised some doubts about some ability for it to be jailbroken. Anthropic essentially said it's no more vulnerable than other things. Amazon isn't as smart as us. It had gotten this whole back and forth, but it's out now. There's some security thing Anthropic added. But, like, we're just going to see this for every single model release? Yes. It's weird, isn't it weird?

[A]

Do we.

[B]

I don't know. How do we feel about this? I don't feel great about it.

[D]

About what?

[A]

That we need the government to sign off on models about.

[D]

Well, feel great about what specific. What specifically?

[B]

Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, on one hand, I like that there's someone checking out for the safety of these models, but it also, the whole process plays out in a way where it seems like they strike a deal when it's, like, politically worse to not have a deal. I don't actually believe that, like, if there was a problem, there isn't still a problem. Or, you know, like, it just seems like it's all been very politicized. You have Susie Wiles, the chief of staff to Trump, being like, we're so glad Fable 5's back. Like, what a Sarah thing to see. Like, the chief of staff of the president weighing in on a model release. It's weird. That's all I'm gonna say.

[D]

The Question is whether it's all just kay fabe, you know, like, it's like a fight to create drama, to entertain the people and that this was the plan all along. You know, it's like, very good for America to be like, this model's so dangerous. We must check and make sure best model is in America.

[B]

Yeah, I get it.

[D]

We need to have the most powerful models everyone fear, right? Like, this is. This is a very good political message, and it enables us continue raising capital for even more dangerous model. Right. And et cetera. So that's like the other way to look at it.

[C]

I mean, the thing, like, I think it's clearly trust destroying. That's obvious.

[B]

Trust with what, though, Sam?

[C]

Just like, trust in institutions. Like, it's just like, everyone's like, what the fuck? I don't want to pay attention anymore. Like, next time someone says a model is so great, it's whatever. I'm like, whatever, I don't care.

[D]

Totally.

[C]

So, like, it's clearly institutional trust is growing. There's good marketing value to it because it's, like, spicy, right? In various ways people can spin that. The thing that I don't know, and I'm curious what your guys take on is, like, how intuitive versus intentional it is, right? Like, yeah. And this is the thing. I don't know about a lot of things these days. Like, you know, there's other stuff that's happening in the marketing and the narratives, construction, whatever. And, like, part of me is like, this is the most brilliant strategy I've ever seen. And part of me is like, this is no strategy. This is just, like, how it's. You know what I mean? Like, I just don't know with a lot of these things, like, which of the two categories it really is. You know, is it brilliant or just intuitive?

[B]

I mean, that's the question. We may never know. I have a related question. Was. It seems like the knives are out for anthropic and OpenAI as it relates to, like, other tech companies and customers. So my latest example is Alex Karp, the CEO of Palantir. Kind of went apeshit against them on CNBC this morning.

[D]

Really?

[B]

And he was a little bit unhinged. I haven't actually watched the full interview,

[A]

but that's normal for him, right?

[B]

No, but more so. So much so that if it's worth watching, I. I didn't watch the whole thing yet. But his upshot is like, everyone hates these guys.

[C]

But this is why we need Vox Americanas, because we have no idea. Like, we don't actually know if these companies are hated or it's all bots.

[B]

No, but Alex Karp is saying that. So again, this isn't a case of like Alex Karp, the CEO of Palantir, partner to both of these companies in a deep way. Although I think Anthropic more is saying on CNBC that everybody hates them.

[C]

But I understand he, but, but, but, but there's a key to cnn. He's not saying he hates them, he's saying everybody hates them. And you're like, well what, everybody is at the Twitter. Everybody. Because like that's true. But like what, what is that? Who are those people?

[B]

Yeah, I, I don't actually know all the answers to these questions. But it's also Twitter.

[D]

I mean, if it's Twitter, it's mostly men and bots, right?

[B]

I don't think it's Twitter. I think it's also their partners and other tech companies and developers who are using cheaper models. Dave, you're a fan. I mean, you were, was it a fireworks model you were talking about?

[D]

No, no, no. GLM 5.2.

[B]

Okay, tell the people more about it. I know we've talked about it, but

[D]

yeah, I mean we talked about it a bit last week, but you know, GLM 5.2 is really good. You know, I think we saw this in our backchannel.

[B]

Who makes it?

[A]

Yeah, explain what GLM is.

[D]

GLM 5.2 is a model made by a Chinese company called Z AI and they're one of the foundation model companies in China. And this model is open source. It's a trillion parameter model. And everyone that I've been interacting with and many people across the openclock community are switching it out for Opus 4.8 and they don't notice a difference. And so we're actually, I think we, as of last week, or say the week before this is, you know, I'm speaking to you from the first week of July. We're at a point in this evolutionary history of AI models where the open source models and the frontier models are neck and neck in terms of your ability to use them for the same purposes, same tasks, and not tell the difference. Right. We had somebody in one of our back channel conversations over the weekend who's a friend of ours that runs a big incubator and venture firm in San Francisco who said they, you know, they swapped out GLM 5.2 on all of their agents and nobody on their team noticed. And I'm hearing this across the board. So I think it's an important moment, you know, to Sort of pause and say what does that mean?

[B]

So why don't these models have more market share?

[D]

I mean it's three weeks old.

[A]

Yeah, fair.

[C]

Well, I just think this is the moment that we've been talking about forever and like why we're kind of skeptical on companies trying to charge premium amounts of money to multiple to multiplication and like look, I think there'll be a fight back. I think a lot of it will be political. People will say I don't want my numbers multiplied in China or with Chinese. Like this is like this is going to be a never ending story. But the question of like where the fundamental margin is in these things is like the how trillion dollar company, right. Is there margin in them? Because if the most basic, if it's like yeah, some people got really smart at multiplying numbers but everyone's going to figure it out and it's just a metal and you know, and like power thing. That's a very hard global race, you know, nothing new here just happening.

[D]

No, yeah, I mean it's nothing new. We've been, we've been talking about it on the pod. You could go back, you know, literally hundreds of episodes talking about this. But I think it's the moment is here that you can now make the choice. Like if you're a business owner and you're trying to make a decision on your capex in terms of should we put capex into buying bare metal servers, you know, a stack of B2 hundreds cost around half a million dollars and then run GLM 5.2 for infinity number of tokens at the cost of power, you know, that trade off is now real between, you know, am I going to put some sophisticated router in place that routes the all of my employees token usage to the correct model to optimize the, you know, the token usage on the frontier, you know, I think that choice is happening. I also talked to another one of our friends that runs a hedge fund in New York. You know, I think if you look at Nvidia, you know, rental spot rental on Nvidia servers is down like 22% week over week the last couple of weeks. But all of the capital is shifting to buying actual raw metal. Right. And so I think you're just seeing this thing happen which is the CFOs and all these businesses are saying I want to understand the exact cost of this, of this part of our business and I don't want it flying out of control like it did in Q1 of 2026. And so like go spend the money on the servers and get me GLM 5.2 and we're switching over to that.

[C]

I did two things on this, David. I mean, I directly agree. One is, I think that the tweet is like, the CFOs are back in control, right? And like, this has shifted from the early days. Like, in the advertising world, there was always the experimental budgets where there were no rules. And so everyone's like, yeah, you start whatever you want. And, like, really small companies can subsist on experimental budgets. The second it becomes core spend is a very different pocket and process. And, like, we're moving from, like, this was all experimental bullshit. It went way out of hand into core spend. The second is I actually happened, shockingly, to talk to two very large companies today, public company ctos, and this idea that, like, obviously we're going to use all the models and switch between them. It's not even avant garde. You know what I mean? Like, there isn't like, ooh, well, maybe I'll be a Claude shopper. Like, no one. Like, that's like a ridiculous thing to assert right now, right? Everyone's like, yeah, of course we're using everything and of course we're figuring out how to minimize our cost and switch it. Like, that would be stupid to not do, right? Which then just means, like, this is a race for efficiency. And, you know, I think Jessica's team reported something like, you know, OpenAI can do it inference at half the cost. Like, that's the race. And like, by the way, if they can do that and no one else can, God bless, they're going to be a huge company. But if they can do that for a month and everyone catches them, then it's a worthless thing. You know what I mean? And, like, that's going to be the real question.

[B]

So why is Anthropic's revenue still ripping?

[C]

Because there's so many people in the world.

[A]

Anthropic, like, started getting more and more hype in Q1. I think things got viral. They've done a great job of marketing. A lot of these businesses that, like, were in the spot we were at in, like, Q4, Q1 are just getting that marketing hit to them now. But to Sam's point, I think the smarter these businesses get, and after one or two quarters of experimentation, people are going to be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, we need a router. We need, you know, to figure all this out. Maybe it's open source. Maybe it's like buying metal and. And I think you'll start to see the revenues shifting quite a bit over the next six to 12 months.

[C]

For what it's worth, I think the open source router world would be quite interesting because people aren't stupid, right? And so being like the stupid everyone 101 is like, well, clearly we need a router. You're like, well, someone's going to basically close source router. And you're just playing this game of Russian dolls where you're like, well, that's dumb. I'm not going to use a closed source router. Like, everyone's going to want control. And so if there was ever a place to build a really powerful company, it would be open source routing, I think.

[B]

Okay, there we go.

[C]

If you have an open source router company, that's good. And call me. Not close source.

[B]

We are banned from our final topic of the Taylor Swift wedding because some people on the call know too much. That's all I'm going to say.

[A]

Well, I think we should at least acknowledge. I think we need to acknowledge it's happening. There's a lot of speculation. By the time the pod rolls out, it will be the day, the Taylor Swift wedding day.

[B]

And some people in this pod are gonna then lick the cookie.

[A]

Some of us will lick the cookie if we were right or not.

[B]

I'm just gonna say, guys, I don't feel like this needs royal wedding treatment. I really don't as a fan and I understand the whole thing. I think this is just too much. I think it's too much.

[D]

Why?

[B]

Why? Why do we need an American royal wedding? Why?

[D]

She's probably bigger than Princess Diana was back then, isn't she?

[A]

She's definitely bigger.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah. And William and Kate for Americans.

[B]

But why, like, she doesn't need to do this. She's choosing to do this.

[A]

I don't think she's choosing to do this. I think the media has taken on the life of its own around this. I don't think she's trying to put any of this out.

[D]

But I think that's the acknowledgment. I think that's why it is what it is probably is that like she has no choice, guys.

[B]

She gets to control every. But I again. And no one wants to hear us have this argument, so we will end it. But the whole thing and the mastery of her is that she stays in control. And she's always released things on her terms and drop the hints. And one of the things you love about her is she is this mastermind of storytelling and the narratives around her whole Thing. So I just don't buy that all that goes out of the window. And oh, woe's me. She has no choice but to give the people what they want and get married at Madison Square Garden. She's always in control. I can't think of a public figure that is more in control. And so she's choosing this. And I think it's weird.

[A]

I can't wait to debrief this next week. Maybe on our own separate special episode of the Pop Culture. Pop Culture, more or less.

[B]

We have a whole other thread on this. Thank God.

[A]

Oh, guys, our kids did Alpha school last week. The AI school, you know.

[B]

Really? Tell us more, Brett.

[A]

Yeah, well, okay. I will say I've been very excited about Alpha school. The premise, for those who don't know it.

[B]

Wait, this is like a summer school. Like, you've moved the kids.

[A]

Well, they have Alpha camp in summer, but it's effectively just a trial week at their school program. And the program is such the first two hours of the day, each kid gets a laptop. The laptop evaluates exactly how smart they are at each subject and then figures out exactly how to get them to like, an 80% success rate every single day. And. And they play games. So it's like instead of math, they're doing a math game, but they're getting like 20 wrong. And they're slowly, like, growing their skills and teaching them in all these different courses and parts of academics. Then the rest of the day, six hours, is like workshops and fun stuff and like, entrepreneurship, financial literacy. Like, our 10 year old learned how to suture a wound, like, with stitches. They built apps, they did smart greenhouses, they played with micro bits. They built, like, catapults.

[B]

Okay, so you're pro or con? Pro or con?

[A]

Actually, slightly con.

[B]

Okay, give it to us.

[A]

So I, I think this is the future framework for education. I think there's still, like, rough around the edges. I've heard every Alpha school is a little bit different. Um, however, what I really did, like, is that on the parent side, you get a dashboard every day of, like, their performance and stuff. I. Which could be a blessing or a curse. It's like tiger parents were definitely gonna love this. And, like, of course, I fed mine right into my agent and had it about, like, because I feed every report card and I have like, a whole, like, framework for how each of my kids is, like, growing with their education. So I think it could be bad too, because sometimes you just gotta let kids be kids and, like, learn things a little bit more on the Fly. I will say for our a like more ADD kid, he actually preferred the AI like screen based learning because it wasn't a voice where that was teaching to the whole class where he felt a little bit more anxious and less focused. So anyway, it was a good experiment. I think there's something there. I think it's a little early and if I were seed investor I would invest, but I think I'm going to participate more at the series day to give it a good analogy.

[B]

Well said. That's a good one. On that note of actually something useful, we will end this week's more or less pod wishing everyone a happy 250th.

[C]

I mean that is the thing. America's 250 years old. That's awesome.

[B]

Sam likes to say this may be our last consequential birthday. Would you like to elaborate on that, Sam?

[C]

Well, you know, like the world's moving so quickly.

[D]

You don't think we're going to make it to multi thousands of years?

[C]

I don't know. America at 300. We'll be in our 90s.

[A]

Yeah, but we're going to live to be infinity.

[D]

Oh, you mean, you mean our like, as in us, Us humans?

[A]

Clearly you don't subscribe to the longevity thesis, Sam.

[C]

Well, no, even if I do, it's just mathematics, physics. We'll be in our 90s. That doesn't mean what we look like in our 90s is a separate question. But like we're going to be in our 90s and like, I don't know, could you imagine, like, I don't know, the United Federation of Western States or some shit by then? Like, I don't, I mean, I hope it's not where we go, like, we're gonna get another Lincoln out of this. Like, what's gonna happen when like someone tries to liberate the Robots? I is 50 years a long time.

[D]

By the way, have you seen, Interesting.

[C]

Have you seen the, the Clanker videos on Instagram? Speaking of the Civil War? They're hilarious.

[A]

Is it like irobot?

[C]

No, it's basically like imagine a guy dressed as Colonel Sanders with all of these clankers, which are his robots doing his things and like his son coming in and being like, you can't treat the robots this way. They're really funny. I highly recommend looking up Clanker on Instagram. It's good.

[A]

We'll see that. We'll do that for our fourth of July weekend.

[B]

Okay, well, a very happy fourth. Have fun, stay safe and we'll see you back here next week for another episode of More or Less. Goodbye.

[A]

Bye, guys.

[D]

Bye, everyone.

[A]

If you enjoyed this show, please leave us a virtual high five by rating it and reviewing it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. Find more information about each episode in the show notes and follow us on social media by searching for More or less Avemorin essenless lesson. And as for me, I'm Brit. See you guys next time.