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- [00:00]
A
Katie, welcome to the show.
- [00:03]
B
Thank you, Jeff. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
- [00:06]
A
It is a pleasure to have you. And I'm glad we got introduced at the recent Forward event. Neil Duringra Shout Out. Was that your first time there?
- [00:13]
B
It was my first time in the best event that I have ever been to, hands down, like, just the caliber of speakers in that room. I mean, I would have, like, Neil, don't go jacking up the prices, but, like, I would have paid three times what I did to be in that room to hear the things we did from the people. So just fantastic event. Definitely will be a staple for me moving forward.
- [00:40]
A
Fantastic. I agree. That was my third time. I only missed the very first one. And Neil knows this. Neil and I have known each other for a number of years, but his very first one was, like, small, right? I mean, it only had, I think, under, like, 100 people, roughly. So quite the growth in just three, four years to now. A thousand people.
- [00:57]
B
Amazing. I mean, Alex or Mosey. Come on. Like, craziness. Yeah. So good. So good.
- [01:03]
A
All right, so for people who don't know who Katie Grimes is, what do you want to share with the listeners? Yeah, I just say who created. I said that right, didn't I? Do I have to edit that out?
- [01:12]
B
Yeah. Okay.
- [01:14]
A
Who are you? What do you want to share?
- [01:15]
B
That's me. I'll answer to anything these days, so.
- [01:17]
A
All right, go ahead.
- [01:19]
B
So, yeah, so I am a obviously female loan officer here in the mortgage space. I am born and raised in Kansas. I was born in western Kansas, moved to the Kansas City proper several years ago. So it's kind of where I've grown up and done my thing. So we kind of straddle the state line, so we're unique in that about half of our business happens in Kansas, half happens in Missouri. So we kind of have to pivot on both areas because different states certainly have some different. Different nuances. So I have. I am in my seventh year in the mortgage industry, so done pretty well in that seven years. I had a former life as a escrow manager in the title space. So my grandmother and mother were both real estate agents. And so when I. It was time to get a big girl job, went to title. So I started typing title commitments at age 19. I didn't take a super traditional route. I actually was a young single mom at a very pretty young age, and so started working, typing title commitments. I did not earn a college degree, so it's been a little bit of a, you know, different path for me, but something, you know, that I'm pretty proud to show people, you know, you can have some obstacles in life and not do something exactly the way that maybe society thinks you have to be in order to be successful. So, yeah, so I did about 13 years in the title space, grew a pretty good book of business, was very, very busy closing and managing. You know, ultimately, I think I just wanted to feel more purpose in the transaction. By the time you get to the end closing table, people are exhausted, they're grumpy, they're stressed, right? So I just was feeling like there's gotta be a way for me to make an impact, you know, in a little bit of a deeper and more meaningful way. So I ended up meeting somebody in the mortgage industry. She kind of said, hey, what do you think about coming over to the mortgage side? And, you know, my experience as a closer, which mortgage people? Like, here's a tip. Treat your escrow closers like the best, because I will tell you that there are some really, really amazing opportunities for referrals and, you know, recommendations from. From that side of the transaction. But kind of being in that. That chair, I. My, like, interpretation of what a loan officer does was basically never answers their phone, is always on the golf course, and it was just very like, used car salesy. That was sort of the impression that I had at the time. And so I'm like, no, absolutely not. You know, mortgage is not for me. I am not that person. I, you know, relationships and is, you know, relationships are the most important thing, you know, for me. So, you know, I kind of molded over a little bit and started thinking, okay, well, if this is sort of what the norm is, and I know that that really probably isn't serving clients at the best, you know, in the best possible way, like, what could I do maybe to, you know, kind of flip that? And. And so I. In 20, 2017, I resigned from my job, jumped in, had no. No deals and no idea what I was gonna do. And I joke around. Like, my husband and I, you know, we love the lake. We've talked about that lots of times. We had a boat fund that we were kind of saving at the time for. For a boat. And I took that boat fund and that was our plan. Like, either this is gonna get us through and I'm gonna close some loans, or I'm. I'm going to go back to title and we're not getting a boat. So, yeah, thankfully, it ended up working out pretty well. So I am now the number one female loan officer in Kansas, number two overall in the city. And we're closing lots of loans and changing lots of lives.
- [05:45]
A
So congratulations, really.
- [05:47]
B
Thank you.
- [05:49]
A
That's a quick ride. Seven years, you know, top 100 in the country. Number one in your state.
- [05:54]
B
Yeah, it's been pretty, yeah, it's been pretty fantastic. Certainly the market has helped, but, you know, we're, we're maintaining, we're staying stable. Over the last couple of years, certainly things have shifted a little bit and, you know, we're, we're growing here locally. I've recruited several loan officers to our branch and starting to, you know, look at some other, you know, avenues. I know we've talked about coaching and things like that. So I think, you know, I'll always love doing loans. Like, that's, you know, the, the top thing. But all of these other, you know, ways that I can help impact the mortgage community have been really, really wonderful too.
- [06:36]
A
And if I'm following you and we'll put links to all the stuff we talk about, like your Instagram in the show notes. But if, if, if the Instagram is accurate, something tells me that the boat fund took care of itself, right?
- [06:47]
B
It did, it did, it did. So, like, long story short, a couple years in, I surprised my husband with a boat. And this past summer he got a new boat.
- [06:59]
A
Nice. Congratulations. That's fantastic.
- [07:02]
B
He does a lot, so, yeah, he, he deserves it. He's definitely the MVP of our household, so takes care of all the things so that I can, you know, do what I do, what I need to.
- [07:15]
A
Do so you can be a superwoman. You know, speaking of your Instagram profile, I went there and you have a very well structured profile bio on there, I should say. So let me just go to it and just double check. Your little tagline on there is I save buyers, home buyers, time and money.
- [07:36]
B
Yeah.
- [07:37]
A
It's very rare that I see a mortgage professional, even real estate, right? I mean, real estate a little bit better. But most mortgage originators don't have a well structured bio. When did you add that? Like, what prompted you to do that?
- [07:53]
B
So I, you know, I think I've, I have tweaked my profile over the years here and there. I've had that tagline for a couple of years now. I think, you know, my ultimate goal is we, and especially in this industry, we talk in language that the average person just can't comprehend or understand. How can you help me? Right? And so my goal in that is to, to be so simple that when you come and you check out my page, like you're going to immediately know, like, hey, I'm for you or I'm not. Because most of the time people, you know, tend to have a lot of hesitations around buying a house or looking at their finances. It's a scary process and situation, certainly. And so I think, you know, being really, really clear on what problems you solve. Right. And those happen to be the two biggest things or hurdles in someone looking at home financing options. Right. They equate it to, like, I say this a lot, but like, I know that there are people that would rather go to the dentist and get a root canal than have me pull their credit, you know, so, you know, and in feeling like it's going to be a long, drawn out process, you know, it might be expensive. So I think time and money certainly are the biggest things that you have going on in terms of obstacles. So if I can just immediately, within the first few seconds of you coming and checking out who I am, say here, this is what I'm about and what I'm here to help you with.
- [09:29]
A
Is Instagram, your kind of number one social profile or place where you hang out most?
- [09:34]
B
Yeah, I mean, we love Instagram. I think it's the one that I've sort of taken a liking to the most. We do post on other platforms. You know, I think what people want to see from the, the platforms is different. And in Instagram, for me, I'm a real, I'm a very visual person. So I think it helps that, you know, you've got stories and reels and things that you can actually, you know, sort of absorb that way versus Facebook, I think, is sort of more short form. Like written content tends to do better. And so we will tweak those things on all of the platforms for our audiences. But I think we get by far the most engagement on Instagram. It could be an age thing, you know, I'm, you know, in that sort of middle aged range that that seems to be where people are hanging out. I think we have a Snapchat and a TikTok, but I wouldn't know what to do with that.
- [10:30]
A
I've never been on Snapchat, so. Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, identifying where your audience is at. But back to your Instagram, the other thing.
- [10:38]
B
Cool. So.
- [10:39]
A
So you think about this, right, is. Is when people are going to check you out online. I know you know this, but this is for the listeners. Like, this is why, how you show up online, when they look you up, what do they find? Like, that's the question. And so when I first came to your Instagram page, and I first of all called out, well, let me do it this way. So the first thing I see at the very top is number one female loan originator in Kansas, right? Top 100 woman lo in the U.S. then there's the line, I save buyers time and money. So already what I've got instantly, just by a quick glance in three seconds is I've got credibility, right? But then what I've got is now you make it. You make it real human. This is what you do. You humanize it. Because you go on to say lake bum and 90s rap expert, which immediately is, like, to your point, I'm a second ago about, like, you know, the daunting idea of getting a mortgage, pulling credit, all that. All of a sudden it's just like, oh, finally, like, this human that I can relate to.
- [11:37]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I am just a normal person, just like everyone else. I've been here, there, and everywhere in between with my own finances and situation. And so I think, you know, as weird as I might be sometimes with my little quirks of loving 90s rap and things like that, I mean, it's who I am, right? And actually, I have had. It's happened once. I did have somebody reach out and say, I'm specifically wanting to work with you because of the rap comment. So, like, you just, like, case in point, your people will find you, you know? And so I always. I have this saying, and it's really ironic. Like, I didn't make it up, but I've heard it, and I've always kind of lived by it. But I actually, like, it was repeated at Neil's forward event of, like, I'd rather be, like, disliked for some for who I am versus liked for somebody I'm not, right? So I think just authenticity is. Is. Is really big for me. So.
- [12:35]
A
And then the last thing I have to ask about, I actually Googled this. Tell me about the. The ISO Perfect Espresso Martini. What's that all about?
- [12:44]
B
So I. ISO is in search of. Oh, okay.
- [12:48]
A
It's.
- [12:49]
B
I am in search.
- [12:50]
A
I'm old.
- [12:51]
B
Of the perfect espresso Martini. So. All right, so here's the thing. Like, I love a good cocktail. I am very snobby about my espresso martinis. It has to be the perfect, like, equation of coffee and the liquor, and then I got to have, like, a little bit of creaminess in there. But it's all about the ice crystals, and you've got to get that right. And So I will dabble in them and try them everywhere. And I'm still kind of searching for. So we, we, we do make them at home, but they're, they're just not the same. Like, it's, it's a very hard cocktail to.
- [13:37]
A
You got to chill the glass, all that stuff.
- [13:39]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So.
- [13:41]
A
All right, so I am on the hunt.
- [13:43]
B
I, I had one in Vegas that probably was like top tier. So that's sort of the, the, the framework. But yeah, I will, I will continue to search Kansas City for the best one. So any Kansas City ins that have, like, some, some places I need to try them.
- [14:00]
A
That's awesome.
- [14:01]
B
I'm there.
- [14:01]
A
Maybe you need to get sponsored by, you know, Grey Goose or somebody.
- [14:05]
B
I don't know. Right. Yeah.
- [14:07]
A
All right, that's. See, this is the human side, personal side of it. Now we're a little bit acquainted with Katie and who she is, and that's cool. Let me ask a question that I often ask people, which is, what is your number one source of business?
- [14:21]
B
Yeah, so I am probably, you know, I need to kind of check because I feel like this year it's been a little bit different, but I am primarily realtor referral based. I am a full, you know, blown retail loan officer. We don't buy leads. We are, you know, and that's just because that's what I know, right. When I was in title, right, I was in title. My clients were real estate agents. My, you know, it's in, you know, my parents, you know, my, my mom. And so it's just what I know.
- [14:53]
A
You know, that, you know that world well. You. Did you feel when you transitioned over that you were comfortable approaching agents because of that previous.
- [15:01]
B
Because your whole thing, for sure, I mean, I think, you know, it definitely helped. But I will say what's really ironic is I do still have some really, really great clients in terms of realtors that I worked with on the title side. But most of my best realtor referral partners now are people that I did not work with back then, but I've just met over the last few years who have now become some of my very, very close friends. I think the biggest thing I can attribute it to is like, I'm really big on whether or not it feels easy, right? If it feels really hard to create a relationship with somebody, like most of the time, like there's an energy situation or something. And so I really, really search for the people that are my people. Right. We're sharing commonalities. We're going through life together, you know, I vacation with a lot of my referral partners. Like, I am. I am all about really, really deep and meaningful relationships because I really think that if you pour value into the people that you care about the most, that's always going to be reciprocated. And so not only, of course, do they trust me with their clients and their business, but they're also doing life with me, which. What better awesome thing can you have than to work with people that you love? So.
- [16:31]
A
Oh, I appreciate that. So it's funny, whenever this. This somebody like you shares that, and I've asked many, many people that same question, and I would say 8 out of 10 times that I've asked that of, quote, unquote, top producers. That's what they say. Realtors is number one. And yet. And I'd be curious to get your opinion on this because, you know, you're involved with. With growth only coaching, and you've got. You interface with other agents and Amir and the whole gang. You know, there's this. Do you see this movement or this narrative of, you know, trying to move away from real estate agents as a significant source of business? And I'm curious to see or get your opinion on that whole narrative that's bubbling up and realtors suck and, you know, all the stuff that you hear.
- [17:13]
B
Yeah.
- [17:13]
A
What's your take on all that?
- [17:15]
B
I mean, and trust me, I get it. Do I think that the consumer should come to us first, get the financial piece in place, get the proper advice, and then go to the realtor 100%? Like that really is how it should be. Right. You should be able to check your situation and know what you can do before moving to that next step. But let's face it, we're all human, right? And so when you are thinking about something big like this, the first thought that goes through someone's head is the excitement of it, right? Not the tedious tasking of submitting pay stubs and W2s. Exactly. Exactly. And so as much as we want to try to fight it, like, this is just how it works, right? They want to call the realtor. They want to talk about their wish list. Oh, I want that man cave. I want the, you know, remodeled kitchen. I want the amazing backyard fire pit, like, all of those things, because those generate warm and happy feelings, right? But here's the thing. Like, people make decisions from here. Their heart, not their head, right? And so I think if we try to reverse that, our success levels aren't going to be as high because we're going to go through the numbers. I actually think when they talk to the realtor first and they get their kind of wish list in their area and they get so excited and they're moving forward, if they come to me and now I tell them, okay, to get all of that, here's your payment. And that payment was probably maybe a little bit over what they initially, you know, had earmarked. Like, they're still going to do it. Right? Because in there, you know, they, they are now bought in and invested and they, they have this vision of what could be for their family. And so, you know, we may make a few adjustments to their budget or pay some debt off or something like that to make it work. But I think if we always talked numbers and always got to the client first, they don't have that vision of excitement. Right. So I, I think a lot of people would maybe decide, hey, maybe we'll pause, maybe we'll hold off. Because, you know, the numbers just aren't as sexy.
- [19:22]
A
It's kind of like when you've bought into the dream, okay, we're going to go buy a house or whatever. You've. Because you have that emotional investment. You're. And you run into some headwinds with financing, for example, because it started with that dream, you're like, okay, well hey, we, we still want to do right. Instead of reverse. Yeah. So you have a bigger incentive to break through. Okay, so that's cool. Then talk to me a little bit about what are the types of activities that you tend to engage in to attract and engage realtors.
- [19:54]
B
That's a good one. So, yeah, I think, you know, in terms of like, my process and this is what I tell everybody. Like, I am no different than any other mortgage loan officer reaching out to agents. I just call a lot of them and I connect with a lot of them. Right. It's a law of averages. So I kiss a lot of frogs too. Right. I will meet people that I, that there's no connection with or something. So the more connections you make, the more opportunities that will come your way. It is math. That's it.
- [20:24]
A
That's a double click right there.
- [20:26]
B
Yeah. So I do my best to, you know, certainly connect with as many as I can. I'm a big fan of what I call the buddy system. So I will reach out to a great referral partner of mine. I do these check ins every couple of months of, hey, how are things going? Like, what's something I can do better to serve you and your team? Also, like, I'm Good. I'm, I'm looking to add a referral partner. If you have somebody in your office or some, or a co op agent that you worked with lately that you think is like, just amazing that I would, you know, I'd love an opportunity for an introduction. So I'm, I'm huge on that. Just simply because then it's not a total cold, you know, contact. It's. You've got somebody that already knows how you operate and knows your surface level who is endorsing you to somebody else. So I use my sort of raving fans a lot to create more raving fans, which is, which is awesome. I am doing a million events. I am always out and about. I am still, still doing open houses. I mean, we close a lot of loans and I will, I'm, I'm doing one Saturday and Sunday for a couple of hours this, this weekend. So, like, I just, I don't, I don't really stop.
- [21:51]
A
You're doing the fundamentals?
- [21:53]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [21:55]
A
I have my whiteboard over here. I have be brilliant, if I could say it, be brilliant in the basics.
- [22:00]
B
Totally.
- [22:01]
A
And so, so many people want to like, you know, something the bright shiny or hit the easy button. And this is what I've discovered, you know, having been here now for eight years doing this podcast, 300 plus interviews. Like, I hear a pattern. And you know, people like yourself and other people that are in the high achiever club, they tend to focus on the fundamentals, get those nailed, done, and then layer in the other elements such as video, social, whatever. Like that's a key part of it. But if you don't have your fundamentals down, you know, exactly what have you found real, real quick sidebar, from the social thing, have you been able to generate business from social yet?
- [22:40]
B
So here's what I will say. Do I get clients that reach out to me on social, asking to come, you know, for a loan consultation? No, I don't. But here is what I, I believe and you know, we teach this at go to. But you know, you need to do the best you can in terms of becoming a modern loan officer. To be seen before you're known. Right. So if I can get my social branding out there to where people are seeing my posts, seeing my content, seeing my value, seeing my education, seeing my face, like when they come across my name on an offer or we meet at an event or something like that, they're like, oh, I know who you are. And so that's the goal, is that it gives you, you know, credibility and just I think that that's really important. I have had some good success in connecting with new referral partners via social. Like they'll comment on a post or something like that, and then it's sort of a segue into, you know, a conversation, you know, that we can, you know, continue offline and meet in person. But I also, I'm, I'm doing the social posting and in, in, in doing social marketing. But nothing's gonna be just face to face, voice to voice. Like again, spoiler alert, there's. You're not, you're not gonna fill your pipeline with people from social media.
- [24:07]
A
Well, and again, everybody hopefully listening understands. We're not saying that social doesn't have its place or its value and that you can't get clients directly. You can, I mean, I've, I've had people on this podcast.
- [24:15]
B
Absolutely.
- [24:17]
A
I do have some people who've gotten business. But here's the thing I always say, which is if you're focused on purchase business, and I got in this business in 2003, okay, so I have yet to find, and I will debate this. I want to have my own debate, I guess, with whoever wants to take it on. It's usually people selling ad services. But the debate is, why the Realtor card? Why am I personally? And why do you and other quote, top producers still seem to be playing that Realtor card, which is, oh, you know, social. It's because this, it's because I've yet to find a higher converting, lowest cost ease of, you know, what do you call it, Engagement. Usually I have a better way to say this, but today I don't. Highest converting, lowest costs. Right. Quickest time path to get to close deal. Like there isn't a better one than a referral.
- [25:12]
B
Well, it's the most direct route to the need. If they're reaching out to a Realtor, they need your service.
- [25:18]
A
They've raised their hand and said, I'm a prospect.
- [25:20]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [25:21]
A
Where they get to Realtor, the timeline ad is usually quite shorter.
- [25:26]
B
Exactly like this is. The social is absolutely important, you know, in terms of creating, you know, a sustainable business with lots of different, you know, streams of where you're getting your business, but you're relying on the people that have the need to see your content. And so that could look very different for lots of, lots of people. Right. Like if you're a younger, you know, a younger loan officer and you've got lots of people that are still just renters, like your friends that you're connected with on social are the ones that are senior content, but they're not the ones with the need right now. Right. They might be in a couple of years. So I think it's just, like I said, it's just the most direct route to the people that are actually meeting you.
- [26:12]
A
Okay. I'm going to go tactical now for a moment, if you don't mind. I'm going to open a couple of tabs on my browser over here and I'm going to look at some data. I use RedR. Do you know rhetor versus mmi for looking up loan office?
- [26:26]
B
I've heard of it. Oh, yeah. Real estate track record.
- [26:29]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [26:30]
B
Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, we have that.
- [26:32]
A
By the way, if you don't know rettr, check them out. Retr app, I believe, is what it is. I know Stephen of.
- [26:37]
B
Yeah, we've got a subscription to that.
- [26:39]
A
Yeah. But anyway, the reason why I use this data is because, you know, ellos like to look up other ellos. But what I get curious about is when I look at like your top buyer agents by transaction count, year to date. I see Amy Jacobson in there. That name ring a bell?
- [26:55]
B
Yes.
- [26:55]
A
Okay. Is she a. How would you articulate her? She a buyer's agent? What is she?
- [27:02]
B
She. She does both. She does primarily do. Do most buyers. Here's what's great about Amy is that, like I said, she's a raving fan. So my conversion rates with her clients, I'm. I'm at almost nearly a hundred percent. And something cool about Amy is that she has only been an agent for a couple of years and she's killing it. She's killing it.
- [27:28]
A
Well, check this out. If this is accurate, according to this, this year you've closed five deals with her.
- [27:34]
B
We probably close more than that.
- [27:36]
A
Yeah. You never know these numbers, but at least in terms of. She seems to be one of your top agents for referrals.
- [27:41]
B
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, we're usually closing at least one to two. Okay. So, yeah, so Amy and I got connected. She joined a team with Georgian Hayhow, who's another OG amazing real estate agent here in Kansas City. I've known her for years. We're very close. She joined her team and so I got an introduction through Georgian. Again, raving fans. Right. Like, stick to the people who can, you know, support you and encourage you and want to see you succeed. And so Georgianne gave me a introduction to Amy. Amy had somebody that she knew in the industry at the beginning, and so we actually didn't start working together right off, but over some time, she, you know, gave us the opportunity. And then, you know, we've been taking great care of our clients ever since. So I think when Amy is communicating with her clients the importance of using a quality lender, she's really fantastic at that. And she will say, you know, at the end of the day, you can use whoever you want. But I'm going to tell you that having Katie's name on a pre approval letter almost doubles your chances of getting it, you know, accepted. Which is like something I'm super, super proud of. Nothing makes me feel better than when a client or an agent calls me and says, the listing agent said she. They accepted your offer because you are the lender. Like, that's. That's when you know you're doing stuff. Right.
- [29:16]
A
Yeah, I love that. Which makes me think or be curious about what do you do or have you trained, Right. Your agents around the team, off the handoff, you know, to edify you, and back and forth. Do you have any structured process around that that you've coached them?
- [29:29]
B
You know, so we certainly make some suggestions from time to time and things like that. I think, you know, again, I'm getting so intimate with these realtors. Right. They know who I am, they know my family, they know my kids, they know what hobbies I have. They know the music I like to listen to. They know the restaurants we love to go to. So it's more about, like, they just really know who I am at the core. And that's so much easier to explain to a client when you really know, like, and trust somebody. Right. And so that's the goal is to always, you know, go the distance with your referral partner to where, you know, I. Does everything go perfectly all the time? It doesn't. Right. But I know that if we had a hiccup on one of Amy's files, she's not out the door, you know, because she knows who I am and mistakes can happen and, you know, sometimes things can get messy, but, like, that's when good stuff happens. When, you know, you know, you're not, like, trying to be perfect all the time. And so I think, you know, it's easy for her to communicate my value because she knows who I am. And I do a good job at expressing that value, too.
- [30:44]
A
Sure. So that. That level of relationship and connection you have helps her just, without a script, communicate value because she feels it and she believes it. Right. And you guys have that vested relationship.
- [30:55]
B
Yeah.
- [30:55]
A
Obviously not all relationships are like that. And that's one of the areas I see a lot of originators missing. The mark is coaching the agents on how to do the handoff and then vice versa. Like, what we often do is we kind of do a role play where let's say you're the agent and, you know, Bill and Mary called me and said, hey, I'm working with Katie Grimes. She said to call you, right, because you're like an awesome lender, whatever. So the first thing I'm going to do is edify Katie, right? I'm going to say, oh, my gosh, that's fantastic. Katie's one of the best agents in all of the state of Kansas. She's been in business X years, blah, blah, blah, boom. Just blow the socks off of Katie.
- [31:31]
B
You know what I mean?
- [31:31]
A
I think that is such an easy thing to do that for sure, that if you told Realtors, hey, here's how I'm going to edify you, right? You're now coaching them. And like, so this is like, I'd like to be edified in a similar way.
- [31:43]
B
That makes sense completely. Yeah. I think there's no better way to show your gratitude for a Realtor that's going out of their way to say, here, just talk to her, than to reciprocate that to the client and say, you're in the best hands. Yeah, we have great templates for that kind of thing and, you know, we certainly will, you know, offer those. When a new Realtor partner comes onto the team, we give them sort of a little breakdown. Hey, here's this, this. You can use these things. But I will tell you, like most of my realtors, they'll just copy me on a text with the client. I like to reach out to the client. I don't like to wait for the client to reach out to me. But it's my personal sell, you know, they can. They can get me at 7 o' clock on a Friday night if they need to. Right. Like, so I think that there's. I don't want to make the process too formal in that sense. And so, you know, it's very, you.
- [32:43]
A
Know, I mean, some. Let's just face it, it depends on where these relationships are at. Some agents have gotten. Some of the relationships have gotten lazy. The dynamic between the two, you know, so not to go to super dip. Okay, well.
- [32:55]
B
And what I like to that point, like, what I've noticed a little bit lately is agents just with business, you know, being a little bit slower and a little bit harder, the deals are a little bit harder. They're not wanting to Rock the boat quite so much. So if a client comes and they say, oh yeah, I'm approve with Rocket Mortgage. Not that there's anything with Rocket, but. Or something along those lines, like in like, what I'm noticing a lot is before they may have pushed that envelope a little bit and said, hey, that's great, but like, here are a couple of local resources I'd love. Like a lot of them right now are like, well, it's just a deal. And it's, I gotta make sure that I can get, you know, some, some money in the door. So I just don't want to, you know, push that envelope a little bit. But, you know, those are always the deals we come in and save in 10 days and last minute.
- [33:42]
A
I like the second opinion approach. I've heard that one used a lot like the Realtors, like, hey, that's fine, you're with Rocket, but would you be open to a second opinion? Right, right. That kind of approach. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's very cool. Okay, so I want to also kind of dig in a little bit on this, seeing as we're, we're pulling on the Realtor thread for the time being. If I jump back into RedR, this is what I also find with people who are doing a large amount of transactions like yourself is like, there's this. What I find is this, is that you. Well, if 80% or whatever percent of your business is from Realtors. Right. That in my experience, when I look at all this stuff is spread across not a few Realtors, but many Realtors. Yeah, yeah. And are you trying to, this is me being curious. Are you trying to consolidate any of that? Are you trying to, like, go after teams and, you know what I mean, concentrate more. Or is this just a nature of the beast and you're fine getting, you know, two deals a year from a Realtor?
- [34:44]
B
Well, I think, here's the thing. If you put all your eggs in one basket of a larger team, which, let's be honest, like, I think we all would love to have, you know, I think we call them whales.
- [34:54]
A
We believe. Right?
- [34:56]
B
But if you put all your eggs in that basket and something happens and that relationship goes away, you've got nothing. And so I am of the belief that I would rather have a little pie from a lot of different pies than one whole pie from one. Right. Because if that pie gets discontinued, yeah, you're kind of screwed. Right? So that's kind of my thought process. I will say, like, at the same time, I can't control, like, what comes my way. All I can do is just make the connections and make the contacts. And I think that there have been times that those numbers have looked a little bit different. I think this year it's definitely, it's just different for everybody. It's different for the real estate agents. Most of my real estate agents are down quite a bit. They may be a little bit more listing heavy this year than, than buyers. And so, you know, those are all just circumstances that are out of my control. So I try not to focus too much on what am I getting from one particular person. I think that sort of those a relationships, like I call them, are really important. But if you get too many of those, like, it's really difficult to try to show up at that level for all of them. Right.
- [36:17]
A
And how do you then what are the strategies or tactics you use to stay top of mind across many agents?
- [36:25]
B
So, you know, I think we do, we do a lot of different things, but I'm really big on just acts of gratitude. So I will, you know, send a voice text spontaneously telling them how much I appreciate them and how grateful we are for our partnership. I'm pretty big on events around town. I do a ton of charity work, so I will invite them to sort of, you know, some fun events. We're hosting a big rooftop event down in downtown Kansas City this weekend. So I've got about 40 of my realtor partners coming with their spouses. So this is a great thing, right, because we're giving back to a charity, but we also get to have a good time. We do a lot of Popeyes. We will do classes, but sometimes it's just a phone call. Right, right. You know, just to remind them of like, hey, I, I really, really appreciate you.
- [37:22]
A
It's a connection.
- [37:23]
B
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. One of my favorite things to do, I think with my referral partners is do a, I kind of call it like a, like a walking break bread. So if you have realtors that are really busy and on the go and like you're trying to get them to coffee or lunch or something like that, and it's just not working out, I invite them to like, just jump over to. We've got a local park here that's like five minutes away from my house that everybody kind of knows. And it's like, hey, let's go for a walk. Because everybody is trying to get out and get some movement and get a workout in. And so I'll just meet them over there in the morning for like a quick 45 minute walk. You're moving, you're talking a little business, you're, you know, catching up with them. That's really valuable. It has been for me.
- [38:10]
A
For guys that can be the golf course, I guess. Right. Who. For the guys who.
- [38:15]
B
Yeah, true. And I like to golf too, but that's a little bit harder. It's a, it's a longer period.
- [38:19]
A
It's a longer period.
- [38:20]
B
It's a longer time block on the calendar for sure.
- [38:22]
A
Yeah. I think the takeaway from this is whatever opportunities you have to connect.
- [38:27]
B
Right.
- [38:27]
A
And I say connect with an underlying. Connect in a meaningful way, not in a, hey, I'm, I'm trying to get something from you. Right, right. This is just, hey, appreciate. Even if it was like six months ago, which is now probably a good transition to get into, with the remaining time we have, the NAR situation, you know, all that's happening around that. I'm curious what activities you might be doing around that, either communication wise or, you know, showcasing how you can help with the buyer agent compensation, whether it's commission gap stuff, you know, anything around that that you're doing.
- [38:58]
B
Yeah. So I'm actually teaching my first class on Monday and then we have another1 on September 12th that I am going to present. You know, from a lender's perspective of what we're doing, you know, I think the biggest thing that I'm focusing on is supporting the realtor and their value and you know, just reiterating to all of my clients that, hey, this really has how it's always been. It's just the requirements now are that we just have to be a little bit more transparent and open with the process. It's changing a little bit. But commissions have always been negotiable and they will remain that way. Right. At the end of the day, a seller wants two things and they want certainty and they have a number in their mind that they want to walk away with. As long as we can complete, complete those two things, having the certainty piece of having the reputation and the backing of our company, we can get, you know, files reviewed very, very quickly. So I am working on like improving like some even thinking outside the box. Right. Like moving up a loan contingency period to a shorter period of time, you know, doing some things like that to where we're giving that seller the peace of mind to know, okay, like this isn't going to fall apart on day, you know, 29. If we have a 30 day contract, you know, we're going to get this through underwriting, fully approved within five days. So we're doing some things like that that I'll, you know, be kind of teaching my realtor partners about that we can come in and here are the things that we can do. But you know, as long as you're meeting those two needs of the seller, like, it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay.
- [40:47]
A
Do you know. So you're in the state of Kansas, right?
- [40:51]
B
So I, Yeah, so our. I live in Kansas, our office is in Kansas. But we do kind of COVID both sides of the state line.
- [40:59]
A
Have you had buyer broker agreements required already prior to the.
- [41:04]
B
So we have. Those have been required. However, they've not been required required. The, the biggest difference there is for an agent to even open one door, they now have to be under a buyer's representation. So that's going to be a little bit different. And case in point, that's why I'm going to open houses this weekend and I'm going to do it every weekend that I can. Because a buyer just to kind of kick the tires and see what a house looks like, to have to sign that, you know, buyer's agency, you know, agreement, I think they may sort of hesitate a little bit on that just because unless you're really serious about going, you may just not want to do that right off the bat. Right. So I think we're going to see a lot more buyers going to open houses and checking out homes on their own, which can be equally as dangerous. So I want to be there to help answer questions and help facilitate the right thing. But like, if you're a real estate agent, like you want to be booking some open houses. Because I, like, I am, I am really confident that this is going to be a thing, you know, that we're going to be dealing with quite a bit. So, yeah, so that's the biggest significant difference in our market is now, like, you can't just, you know, I couldn't call up my buddy, my friend realtor and say, hey, go show me this house, because I just really kind of want to see it, you know, and I've done that in the past before. That can't happen anymore.
- [42:33]
A
So, yeah, there's a few things in there. One, before I get into the open house thing, are you then in these classes, events or discussions with agents, are you showcasing, you know, like I'm wearing today I'm wearing a First Home IQ Ambassador shirt. Right. Shout Out Savage and Kristen and Mortgage Coach and all that. Trust Engine. How many brands does he have? I can't keep.
- [42:59]
B
We love Home iq.
- [43:00]
A
Yeah, for sure. It's a good thing and you need to check it out if you haven't already first Home iq. If you're all about education. So where the hell was I going? Oh yeah, the commission gap strategy and appraisal gap. I'm sure you know what those are. Are you. Because here's what I believe is like I know you probably have the same ilk here is we need to, this is for me. I've seen the LOS that I'm working with is help them, facilitating them to get in front of agents. That's scale with teaching classes. And one of the things that they're going to do in there is showcase how financing can help cross the commission gap. Strategy, appraisal gap and that kind of stuff. Are you having any of those kind of conversations with agents?
- [43:38]
B
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I think, you know, I made a company transition at the beginning of this year and you know, one of the biggest reasons that I chose, you know, I'm now at cross country. We've opened a new branch here in Kansas City and in kind of growing the Midwest for, for that purpose was because I wanted to make sure that I always had the best products to be able to help solve these problems. And so we've got some really awesome products and you sell what you've got, right? So like, but you can always sort of work, you know a scenario in. So cross country has for, for a good chunk of qualified buyers. There is a product that we have called Smart Start that provides a 2% non repayable grant.
- [44:30]
A
Oh wow.
- [44:30]
B
It's not passed on in the rate. I mean it's an awesome product. So all of us CCM loan officers I'm sure are using it. But here's case in point is if you end up needing some funds for a commission gap appraisal gap because we have an issue. We're giving you 2%. Right. Most buyers are planning to have at least 3, 3%. So if you're going to put 3% down and I can give back 2%, you now have at least 2% to pay your agent. Okay. We also have a product called Bye Bye pmi. And so again most borrowers can qualify for this. If you're planning to put 20% down, we will not charge you PMI if you put at least 15% down. So I've just created a 5% buffer in your, in your budget which more than covers commission would more than cover an appraisal gap. Right. So we've got some really awesome products that are going to help with these things should they become issues, you know, in the long run. So I think there's some different strategies, you know, that you certainly can look at and you know, always check with your company on what's possible. Right. Because we call these products these things. But they probably exist in some realm in every company. But for sure. But yeah, I'm promoting, you know, the way that we can come in and help, you know, absorb some of that financial concern. For sure.
- [45:53]
A
It's, it's. And the reason why I bring those examples up is it's about solving problems. Right. And you have a great opportunity to illustrate, demonstrate how you can help solve problems as a mortgage professional so you become something more than just a vendor.
- [46:07]
B
Right. Right.
- [46:08]
A
Quick side note, on the open house thing, I'm spending, I've been spending a lot of time, lot of time like on webinars and on our and all this kind of stuff and just because I'm putting all these classes together. But it's funny, there's this distinction and you get in these realtors group like there's so much misinformation out there and there was, there's this thread that I've been following. So not to open up a rabbit hole but like just to be clear, buyers, when they're going to an open. This is for listeners, buyers, when they go to an open house, they do not need a agreement to go into an open house to tour an open house or anything like that. And so if you ever want to set the record straight, yes, you can tell whoever this because the reality is that house is being represented by the seller. Right. That's on the sell side. So they don't need that. And it's of course not until they engage in representation.
- [46:52]
B
So that's correct. Right. Well and here's the thing for those loan officers that would like to bypass the realtor and get straight to the client, like go work an open house. You're buyers that come in that. Yeah. That need you. I before this NAR thing like a couple of months ago, I did an open house and I hadn't done one in a while and I absolutely loved it. But I picked up five, like five prospects and we pre approved a couple of them and one is already closed. And so I mean you just, it's a good opportunity that I think if people aren't going to start considering to sort of like you said early on, like getting back to the fundamentals and the basics and you know, open houses used to be, you know, used to be A big thing. And so I know, you know, just with inventory levels and the competition of the market, you couldn't keep a house on the market long enough for one.
- [47:46]
A
That's changing.
- [47:47]
B
But yeah, it's changing. And so yes, you're exactly right. They do not need any representation to go through a house that. That is being marketed by the seller.
- [48:00]
A
Yeah, exactly. Just for people listening. Okay, so we are just about out of time. I'm real curious though, real quick if you want to give me the break. By the way, just your website is as beautiful like your company website. We're going to put a link to it so people can see it. It's amazing. It's very.
- [48:17]
B
I appreciate that. I. So I call it a zhuzh. It's. That's a made up word. It's J O O J. Right. So I take something and it's called just kind of like juicing it up. Right. Elevating it to the next level. That makes me just stand out a little bit different. So I say that word a lot. It's like, hey, that's great. But let's. What can we do to zhuzh that up? My website is definitely something I'm proud of. So thank you.
- [48:47]
A
We'll link it up in the show notes. And this has got me real curious as well as you're doing this Team KG marketing thing. Free on demand marketing solution for real estate agents. So this is like marketing listing flyers. What do you want to share about this and what's the whole strategy here?
- [49:01]
B
So this has been a labor of love. So Danny, my marketing director, my friend, she and I have had this idea for a while and think thankfully to another top producing lo at ccm, Matt Weaver. Shout out to Matt Weaver, the number one lo in the nation. He really helped us put this together and sort of get it off the ground a little bit quicker and faster because you know, we are, we had this vision and we knew what we wanted to create. And so thanks to Matt and his abilities, he was able to kind of help us implement this a little bit so sooner. So this is a just like you said, free marketing tool for real estate agents. So the idea here is for us to be available to help with any of their needs as quickly as possible. Right? So they can pop on Team KG marketing, request listing flyers, open house materials, have us host an open house with them. They can request buyer scenarios, any sort of any marketing assets that are, you know, needed for them to push something forward. We have a, you know, rent versus buy comparison that they can request and now versus later, like waiting, you know, versus buying now. What does that look like? So just anything that's going to help elevate their level of service to their client, too. So, you know, we want them out selling houses and making connections with clients. And so if we can, you know, do some of that heavy lifting for them, you know, we're. That's kind of what we're all about. So again, it's just an extra value add that we are providing, you know, to the realtor population here in Kansas City.
- [50:53]
A
So, yeah, shout out to Matt as well. He's been on the show twice. Really dig what he's doing. Like, the level of standard over there is crazy.
- [51:00]
B
He's amazing. I know he's amazing.
- [51:02]
A
I learned a lot just by listening to him. All right, let me play real quick. Just, you know, listing flyers, marketing flyers. Again, back to this whole narrative that social media talks about with real. I mean, do realtors, you know, what you always hear is like, oh, realtors don't want your listing flyers. They don't want your finance flyers.
- [51:20]
B
That.
- [51:20]
A
What do you say to that?
- [51:22]
B
Well, and that's okay, but, like, are you going to go do them yourself? Like, probably not, right? So again, I've already zhuzhed them up for you. So I mean, in my. Again, going back to the time and money scenario, right, like, if you're a realtor and you need marketing assets, you're either probably paying somebody to make them for you or you're making them yourself, which is time, right? So again, I'm saving realtors time and money by offering these to them. So I would say my marketing assets are going to be way better than no marketing assets. Right? But it's been a labor of love and we have, we've gone through. We fine tune them. I, I'm really proud of it. And I think that all of my referral partners would not hesitate to use our, well, our items, you know, and.
- [52:16]
A
Hopefully, you know why I'm not bringing that up to poo poo. The idea bringing it up to poo poo, the narrative, which I'm just so tired of seeing this narrative out there. I want all BS on it because it's. It depends on the agent.
- [52:27]
B
Right?
- [52:27]
A
Because to your point, if they're. They're either not going to do it. Put it this way, like back to the fundamentals. When I was coming up, man, one of the ways I got relationships was I hit. I found out the listings ahead of time, got the property address, and I created the flyer and went to the broker preview and showed up with my flyers. And this is how I friggin got realtor business. It's just by playing that card over and over and they. No one else had flyers there and so I brought the flyers. They put them in the rack. Not always, but a lot of the times. But anyway, bottom line is, you know, at member Shopanosian said this is he wanted to be the most valuable lender in town. Right. And how do you do that, figure out that for you? You've obviously done it a lot of different ways, right?
- [53:08]
B
Totally.
- [53:09]
A
Okay, we are officially at time and probably gone a little bit over, but I appreciate that the grace on that. Where would you like people who loved this interview? And by the way, if you're listening and you love the conversation, you want to connect with Katie, where would you like them to go?
- [53:24]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, our Instagram, Katie, Katie and Casey. I definitely would love to connect with anyone, especially, you know, female loan officers in the business if you are feeling stuck or just not sure where to go. Trying to balance, you know, motherhood and mortgages and all the things like that's really my space and what I love to do. But you know, certainly our website is katienkasey.com and then Instagram as well. So I just appreciate the opportunity, Jeff, and thanks for having me.
- [54:00]
A
Thank you for making time. That sounds like it's got some legs though. Motherhood and mortgages.
- [54:04]
B
Right? Yeah. So that's actually my tagline in coaching. So you know, my coaching students. Yeah, they.
- [54:12]
A
So and you're also a coach with growth, only coaching. So if anybody doesn't know about that, we'll link that up. It's a fantastic coaching platform.
- [54:18]
B
Sure. Yes, I would love that. I love that we're growing amazing. Like it's just, it's so fulfilling and so gratifying and it's like the one thing in my life that was missing is to help other people. And you know, like I said, my path wasn't just clean and neat, but it's really, really satisfying to show people how, you know, to create a business with purpose, you know.
- [54:43]
A
That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, listeners. You know what to do. You can find the links in the show notes. Connect with Katie, let her know you enjoyed the episode and we will see you on the next one, everybody. Bye for now.