Closing 20+ Loans a Month in This Market

Summary

Mortgage Marketing Radio Episode Summary: "Closing 20+ Loans a Month in This Market"

Release Date: August 14, 2025

Hosts and Guests:

• Host: Geoff Zimpfer
• Guest: Paul Parsons, known as the "Home Loan Superhero"

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1. Introduction to Paul's Success

Geoff Zimpfer welcomes Paul Parsons to the show, highlighting Paul's remarkable achievement of closing 20 to 30 loans monthly despite the challenging mortgage market. Paul attributes his success to strategic partnerships, a focus on first-time homebuyers, and innovative use of social media platforms like TikTok.

Notable Quote:

"We're just heavy hitting the buyers that actually still need to buy. You know, they're not super rate conscious. They're just get it done conscious and we're getting it done." — Paul Parsons [03:00]

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2. Navigating the Current Mortgage Market

Paul addresses the prevalent notion of a "transaction recession" in the mortgage industry. He challenges this mindset by emphasizing that the top performers rise above market downturns through strategic adjustments. According to Paul, the key shift has been targeting first-time homebuyers, who remain actively engaged in purchasing despite higher interest rates.

Notable Quote:

"I feel like a lot of times there's a shift, you have to address the shift. So the shift in the market, in this current market is first time buyers." — Paul Parsons [02:10]

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3. Strategic Realtor Partnerships

A cornerstone of Paul's successful strategy is his selective approach to partnering with realtors. Instead of collaborating with large teams that may lead to diluted relationships and inconsistent referrals, Paul focuses on medium-sized, high-quality realtor teams. This approach fosters genuine loyalty and ensures a steady stream of referrals.

Key Points:

• Selectivity: Paul chooses to work with realtors who share his energy and commitment, avoiding those who are unresponsive or inconsistent.
• Relationship Building: By forging strong, personal connections, Paul ensures that realtors become enthusiastic advocates for his services.
• Team Structure: Paul's team includes juniors and support staff to maintain high-quality service without overextending himself.

Notable Quote:

"The good ones are going to leave. So the two to four unit team though a lot of times those are built like a family where they stay together for a lot longer and they're super high level, high quality people." — Paul Parsons [07:50]

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4. Investment in Quality Over Quantity

Paul emphasizes the importance of investing in quality realtor relationships rather than merely increasing the number of partnerships. He explains that to provide exceptional service, resources must be allocated efficiently, which sometimes means declining partnerships with larger teams that don't align with his values or business model.

Key Points:

• Shared Lead Spend: Paul allocates about 25% in shared lead spend, balancing profitability with competitive commission rates.
• Value Proposition: He offers more than just loan processing, including community involvement and personalized support, to add value to realtor partners.
• Cultural Alignment: Ensuring that both parties share similar work ethics and values is crucial for sustainable partnerships.

Notable Quote:

"I'm an abundant guy. I love creating synergy. I love giving out to people." — Paul Parsons [36:32]

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5. Mastering the Fundamentals of Contact and Communication

Paul attributes much of his success to consistently executing the fundamental practices of daily contact and communication. He utilizes a structured system that categorizes Realtor contacts, customer interactions, and past client follow-ups to ensure no opportunities are missed.

Key Points:

• Daily Outreach: Maintaining regular contact with realtors and clients to build and sustain relationships.
• Structured System: Using checklists and notes to manage and track interactions effectively.
• Persistence: Paul emphasizes that waiting for leads to come naturally is less effective than proactive outreach.

Notable Quote:

"If we're not talking to them, we're not selling them, that's for sure." — Paul Parsons [07:25]

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6. Demonstrating Value Beyond Transactions

Beyond timely loan closings, Paul focuses on building trust and providing additional value to his realtor partners. This includes offering strategic advice, participating in community events, and supporting realtors' business growth.

Key Points:

• Personalized Support: Weekly strategy calls for new partnerships to ensure alignment and mutual growth.
• Community Involvement: Hosting events like movie nights and virtual seminars to engage with the community and generate leads.
• Educational Initiatives: Utilizing platforms like TikTok to conduct live Q&A sessions and homebuyer seminars, which effectively fill his pipeline with qualified clients.

Notable Quote:

"We have a done for you system of ready to teach presentations, plug and play marketing, and even 200 producing agents to invite." — Geoff Zimpfer [15:12]

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7. Leveraging Social Media for Lead Generation

Paul has successfully harnessed the power of TikTok to reach and engage with first-time homebuyers. By hosting live sessions and homebuyer seminars, he has been able to generate significant interest and application submissions directly through social media interactions.

Key Points:

• Engaging Content: Creating relatable and informative content that resonates with first-time buyers.
• Interactive Sessions: Live Q&As and seminars that provide immediate value and capture leads effectively.
• Systematic Follow-Up: After seminars, attendees are sent pre-qualification links, streamlining the application process and increasing conversion rates.

Notable Quote:

"We average three to five applications right there. Just one hour." — Paul Parsons [32:19]

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8. Scaling Up and Future Plans

Looking ahead, Paul aims to continue scaling his business by doubling his outbound efforts if targets are not met by mid-week. He emphasizes the importance of identifying and maximizing high-return activities tailored to individual strengths and market niches.

Key Points:

• Goal-Oriented Actions: Setting clear benchmarks and doubling efforts to meet or exceed goals.
• Customized Strategies: Encouraging loan officers to identify their most effective growth levers and enhance them for better ROI.
• Continuous Improvement: Staying adaptable and continually refining strategies based on market conditions and performance data.

Notable Quote:

"Know which growth levers to pull that's going to give you the biggest ROI on that." — Geoff Zimpfer [35:37]

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9. Closing Thoughts and Final Advice

Paul concludes by stressing the importance of intentionality and alignment in all business relationships. He encourages loan officers to be purposeful in their partnerships and to focus on delivering consistent value to sustain and grow their businesses.

Key Takeaways:

• Intentional Partnerships: Building relationships with partners who share your values and work ethic.
• Consistent Value Delivery: Continuously providing value beyond transactions to foster loyalty and referrals.
• Adaptability: Being willing to adjust strategies in response to market shifts and business performance.

Notable Quote:

"I have a plan. Because unlike other lenders where I'm just begging for your business, I have a plan. I've intentionally went after your business." — Paul Parsons [30:03]

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Conclusion

In this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio, Paul Parsons shares invaluable insights into thriving in a tough mortgage market by focusing on first-time homebuyers, fostering high-quality realtor partnerships, and leveraging modern marketing tools like TikTok. His disciplined approach to daily contact, strategic investments, and consistent value delivery serves as a blueprint for mortgage professionals aiming to scale their businesses successfully.

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Connect with Paul Parsons:

• Instagram: @home_loan_superhero

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Note: For listeners seeking to implement Paul's strategies, consider focusing on building genuine relationships, prioritizing high-quality partnerships, and utilizing social media platforms effectively to generate and nurture leads.

Transcript

[A]

Okay, so the mortgage market is tough right now. Right. A lot of loan officers have bought into the transaction recession mindset, believing there just isn't enough business to go around. And while many are struggling, Paul Parsons is closing 20 to 30 loans every single month. Paul's known as the home loan superhero, and he's built systems that work even in today's market. And today he's sharing exactly what's driving his success in this market. We're talking about his strategic realtor partnership approach that creates genuine loyalty. His focus on first time home buyers that generates consistent business for him, and how he's using TikTok virtual seminars to fill his pipeline with clients. So in this episode, we're going to talk about why doubling down on first time home buyers is working for Paul and why it could work for you too. The Realtor onboarding system that builds trust, loyalty, and repeat referrals and how to turn your social media engagement into pre approvals and even closed loans. So if you're tired of waiting for leads to show up and you want a mortgage business that performs in any market, stick around. This conversation has the answers you're looking for. Foreign welcome to the show.

[B]

Thanks for having me on.

[A]

Jeff, it is a pleasure. Thank you for carving out time from your busy schedule. I know you're super busy. You're coming off a very, what a record month for you in July. Why don't you tell the folks who are listening or watching, what did you, what did you do this July for units and volume?

[B]

So June and July were back to back. My best months I've had. So we went from we did 5 million, 7 million. And then now in August we're expecting to do over eight. So, yeah, it's been really good, really consistent. I don't have a single gripe right now.

[A]

Well, and let's put that in context. You're an Albuquerque, is that correct?

[B]

I am.

[A]

Okay, so let's talk about units though, because. Right. For me it's like one thing to talk volume. Like our friends in Newport beach hear that. And that's two loans for them. How many units is that for you?

[B]

So averaging about 20 to 30, depending on the month. This month I should Finish at about 33. The month before was 27. The month before that was 19.

[A]

Okay, but Paul, we're in a down market. It's. It's a transaction recession. Is there that much business out there?

[B]

Is that really a thing, Jeff? I feel like that's what people that don't want to work say. No, I don't I feel like the, the cream always rises to the top when things get tough. I feel like we're kicking butt in this market because we're dialed in and we're. I feel like a lot of times there's a shift, you have to address the shift. So the shift in the market, in this current market is first time buyers. You know, if I have a use common sense. Right. If somebody has an 8% rate, are they going to leave or a 3% rate, are they going to le that for well, not eight today. Are they going to leave that for a six and a half? Probably not. So they're not our target audience right now. Our first time home buyers are our target audience and that's what I'm specializing in right now. We're about 70% first time homebuyer right now and about 50% of those are our local state run bonds. So we're just heavy hitting the buyers that actually still need to buy. You know, they're not super rate conscious. They're just get it done conscious and we're getting it done.

[A]

So by you saying the 50% local state run bonds, is that like DPA programs that help them get.

[B]

Correct. Yeah, they get a 10,000 doll, zero interest type thing. You know, every state it's a little different.

[A]

Doesn't that money run out at some point?

[B]

So at one point that money used to run out in our state. I do not. It has not run out in years. I'd say maybe in years past seven, eight years ago it would and then it wouldn't be available for a couple weeks and then they'd get some new funds. It hasn't been out though in at least pre Covid so five, six years.

[A]

Okay, great. And so your average loan amount would be approximately what it's like two.

[B]

Last year was 272.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't know what it is this year, but 272 was last year.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. And that's just by the way for people to send context, different things like that. Right. Bottom line is 30 units is killer. Like I was just talking with somebody earlier today. They, they didn't, they don't know this business at all. And they're like, as a matter of fact they're in insurance business. And so we were trying to give them some context of like is 30 units a lot right. To close in a month. I'm like closing a deal every day.

[B]

Is tough, I'm not gonna lie.

[A]

Yeah. And so let's, let's talk about that. What is your Number one source of business.

[B]

So me personally, I readjusted. I started out in this business heavily refinanced. At one point I had a call center and was heavily doing that. I would say about three to five years ago, I totally shifted. And I think my recent success is a testament to that shift where I decided I was going to be an amazing partner to my realtors and I was going to be very selective of the realtors I was working with. I was going to find someone who has like, interest, who's around my same age or at least energy. Like, you know, I'm not working with the guy who's super born. If you haven't figured it out yet. I'm super loud, super high energy. Go, go, go. So I will annoy the fire out of half the realtors who want to sit there and take forever to go. But the realtors that are moving, we. We are here, we're locked in, because that's how I am. So I feel like that that was the biggest shift I did. That shift basically gave all my success because the realtors were so happy, they started telling their friends about it. It didn't. I didn't have to push it. It was organic because they were just thrilled and became friends where now friends and family want to refer you just make the realtor your friend or your. Some of them are pretty much like family come to my kids, birthdays, etc. So I think that really for me was the beginning of one. Also a better quality work life. A lot of times you get realtors that, you know, we all get that realtor who calls us. I've been in this business for 28 years and you don't know what the hell you're talking about, Paul. So, you know, nobody wants to work with that guy, at least not me. But now you have the choice to not do that. If you're able to operate at high level, people you enjoy talking to, you know, you shoot the. With say, hey, what's up, man? How's the family? Right before, you know, and then you talk business and it's respectful and it's. That growth is so much easier and you work so much harder for people you like.

[A]

Yeah, 100%. I love that. And I think one of the key things you said is better work life as well. Less stress, less dealing with the weenie head agents, all that stuff.

[B]

Exactly. Weenie head. I might have to steal that one.

[A]

That's a nice, nice version of it. Roughly, do you, how do you categorize? Or do you, you know, How a lot of people go with the agents. I got my A, B and C level players, you know. Do you do that type of categorization with your agents?

[B]

I do not right now. And there's a reason for it. I have a team. So there's me, I have two juniors, two LOAs and then a full time processor and underwriter, my two juniors. I'm also placing Realtors under them. So me personally, I'm not actually really accepting any new Realtors right now. Like I've had people even reach out through Instagram and you know, we were so blessed that I don't have bandwidth. I'm looking for another, I just hired another girl on Monday and we're looking for more support staff to be able to, you know, we're not going to sacrifice our quality of files to bring in a new team or a new Realtors. Thank God we're at that point. But it made me realize that I got to be able to turn these other might get everyone else on my team going. And that's kind of what we're doing now is where, you know, I get a realtor who comes in and let's say I know what you're talking about, like the core. You have the A Realtor who's doing a deal a month, a B Realtor who's doing one to two and your C Realtor is doing maybe one, a quarter or something. So I definitely went through the core training years back about five, seven years ago and I did implement that and I do use a lot of the core training. Like I do take notes, I do take. There's so many calls I want to make each day. I do understand what my backwards algorithm is, how many calls a day, how many communication I need to make in order to do it. So I do all of that on a notebook that I have literally right here on my desk and I have it in front of me all day and there's three different checklists on it. That is Realtor contacts, customer contacts and past client follow ups. And I hit that goal every day and I have for five years.

[A]

Well, there's a key lesson right there is you're still executing on the basic fundamentals, which is contacting people, conversations daily, right?

[B]

It's all about contact. If we're not talking to them, we're not selling them, that's for sure. If we wait for the phone to ring, I've heard that you're going to be waiting forever. If you just want to sit here and wait for the phone to ring all Right.

[A]

Roughly how many agents would you say are on your bus right. That you would cons, you would, you would name as. Oh yeah, active agent. You know.

[B]

So for me personally I actually only work with four teams right now. Me personally and those four teams each have two to four people on their team. They're medium sized teams which is interesting because there's a big team that wanted to work with me. They have 32 agents. There are top five in our area. And I, and I didn't take it, which I know you would think is weird and a lot of other people are like you're crazy. Why wouldn't you take that? So what I've noticed is when you take those big teams like that one, you can't quantify how many people of those are going to like you, how many you're going to like and how many deals they're going to send you because you're not making valuable relationships with them and it's a revolving door. You're going to pay a lot of money and you're not going to get the, the quality of, you know, realtor because the good ones are going to leave. So the two to four unit team though a lot of times those are built like a family where they stay together for a lot longer and they're super high level, high quality people. So personally I saw I work with probably about 20 agents. There are a couple onesie twosie agents. I do have qualifiers for most of the people I personally work with Jeff, where they are doing a minimum of one buy side a month. I'm just so tapped in and so busy. If you're not out there and this is your full time job and it's all you're doing. Unfortunately I personally won't have time for them but I will still set them with one of my juniors. So I'll meet them and then I'll just set them with somebody else. I'll be like, hey, I'm still going to be here for your stuff. But I think you're a way better fit with Jen on my team. She has a lot more bandwidth and be able to service you a lot better than I will after I get their business. I I hand it.

[A]

Yeah, I'm going to come back to that in a second.

[B]

I probably have 40 total is if I had to guess, I actually don't know the number.

[A]

Okay, we're going to come back to the junior structure in a second. I want to you highlight you you blew something very fast that I want to make sure people get which is this opportunity you had to this team of 32 agents and you evaluated it and determined it would not be aligned. You use that word earlier today. Aligned with, you know, your values and preferences. Preferences. You also mentioned something about it will cost you a lot of money. Am I to hear from that it would have cost you money to be part of that team and get that flow of business?

[B]

Well, I feel like the modern day mortgage banker has to understand it takes money to make money. Realtors are looking for real partners. They're not looking for people that are just going to answer their phone and provide no other value besides an answered phone call. You have to be willing to step aside by them, set an expectation though. I think a lot of lenders go in there and try to buy the business. I don't do that. Most my len. Most my realtors can get more from another lender. They would pay a higher percentage. I still participate generally at about 25%. I know some lenders cover as high as 50. I personally don't because it doesn't work in my model because I have a high staff that's going to support a smooth transaction. That staff has to come some from what dollars have to come from somewhere to get that staff. So because of that I tell everyone I could do 25% but I'm going to make your closing date do everything else. And then we do a lot of community interaction. We're super involved in our community, doing all kinds of. We just did a movie night at a park for a hoa. We did a homeless thing. We did about every month we're doing some sort of community event.

[A]

The 25% you're referring to, is that a shared lead spend?

[B]

Correct. Like a Zillow shared or realtor.com, you know, sync are probably the three most popular that most of my big teams are using.

[A]

So it's interesting. Paul, you really bring up a very interesting topic of this whole paying for leads thing. And I know you know this well and a lot of people like to bag on that idea. Idea.

[B]

But.

[A]

But you also put it in the framework of a modern originator and you've got to invest. You know, talk a little bit about that because look at here I am running a business and I have to invest in my business for exposure. Whether that's ads I've run, whether that's content production, various things, I'm going to have to spend money. And it's interesting how people, loan officers, let's say, and I'm not saying I'm, I'm Pro like let's go, let's. The way to get agent relationships is go pay for leads. But for the right relationship. This is what's interesting is I found people who are at a volume like yours. Not everybody, but sometimes I come across people like you who have a. You're running a machine, you've built a real business and you're choosing to invest X amount of dollars for sourcing that relationship, but also sourcing those leads and opportunities. Do you want to riff on that for a second?

[B]

Yeah. It really bogged down. So I, for prior to five years ago, I was buying, I ran more of a call center, right. So I was buying refinance leads during COVID even before that. And then during COVID when the rates went lower is when I decided, wow, with these rates so low, towards the end of COVID is when I really started hitting purchase business again. Because I feel like that's something I've done well in my career and that we all need to do is realize who we're going after and in what market is our real target audience. Because every market, every rate structure, there's a different target client that's going to thrive in that market best. Right? So that's, I think the big reason I went into the purchase side for step one is I think you got to be strategic and not just say, hey, I'm going to do every loan for everyone. If you look at my Instagram, it's literally, I'd say 80% of my videos are targeted to first time buyers. And why is that? Because that's my target audience. That's who I'm speaking to. That's who's going to be on social media that's going to respond. It's not the guy who owns five houses is going to see some, you know, tacky Instagram video I make with my daughter and send me a DM and want to buy a house that's not that borrower. I am going to get that borrower referred to me from a Realtor, but he's not going to find me on Instagram and DM me. That's not happening. The 25%. The reason I came up with 25% for me just I can, I know what I can spend per deal. I know respa violations, you know, you can't say that. So I'm not telling the Realtor, hey, I'm paying 300 per deal or whatever, but I know my numbers and I think everyone needs to understand their profitability and what their numbers are and their minimum expectation they want to make per transaction. And that's basically what I did as I reverse engineered it and realized as long as. And the other big thing I do, that's kind of weird. And I know a lot of realtor lenders shy away from it and realtors don't. I won't work with anybody. If they are promoting a whole bunch of lenders, if they have three, four lenders in their slew, if they have a whole even two, if they have like even a bat, if, if I'm not their guy and they have a backup lender, they're not my partner, I'm going to sell out to them, I'm going to be available to them, but I'm going to expect that back in return. And I feel like that's a lot of loan officers devalue themselves and basically saying, I'm just going to be your punching bag and be here. Whenever you're ready to use me, I'm going to be here. Nobody wants that guy. There's no value there. He doesn't even like himself because he's willing to give up his business for free. He's already saying, like, I'm worthless. I have worth. Just like you have worth, Jeff, just like we all do. But you got to sell that worth and sell that value to your realtor. So they buy into what you're doing and what you're going to do for them and then they're going to, they're going to want to use you. And I think that's a vacuum we've created is we've created such a cool model that we have a lot of people that want to work with us, but we're kind of still selective of who we are. I'd say at least, and I'm not exaggerating, I'd say every other week we tell a realtor they're not a fit. And even for somebody on my team, because if they're not doing some business and, or if they're, if they're not full time, almost nobody on my team will work with them. And I know that's tough. I know there's a lot of part time realtors that do well at it. They're just not a fit for our team. My team's expected to work 50, 60 hours. We don't work the model that I know some of these fancy brokers work where they're nine to five and they have a life. I don't have a life, man. I'm a machine. I work all the time. I answer my phone at 8 o', clock, I'm available on the weekends. I'm sending pre qual letters out and that's what I want my realtors to be like.

[A]

Yeah, very interesting. I think the big takeaway for me there is you're very clear on who, who's an appropriate fit for you. Once again, the word alignment comes up and you're willing to say no, it's not an appropriate f. Hey, are you tired of cold calling realtors and feeling like you're getting nowhere? With my agent classes, you don't have to chase agents anymore. We hand you a done for you system of ready to teach presentations, plug and play marketing, and even 200 producing agents to invite. So you can double your agent referrals in 90 days or less. Plus you'll get weekly coaching and a community of loan officers sharing exactly what's working right now. Here's a quick win from one of our members.

[C]

I joined it because I was tired of doing business the way that regular loan officers have been doing it in my market, which is just making the core calls every Monday and Friday, checking in with real estate agents. I had done that for years and it seemed like everybody was doing that. I needed something different and I wanted to find a way that I could work with the agents that I want to work with. I wanted to find a way that I could have a captive audience every month, every couple of weeks where I could find agents that were like minded and that wanted to work with me as well. So it's probably brought in, I'm just guessing here, but it's probably brought on. In the three years I've been back with, the program has probably brought on, I'd probably say about $40 million in volume since then.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And it's led to some massive relationships and I wouldn't be able to do those things without this program. The value of these Friday calls are so incredibly valuable for all of us. I get upset if I miss it on a Friday. The cost of this program is what is worth it. Just because of these Friday calls that we're on where we help coach each other. We're just here to help help each other add value to our realtor partners.

[A]

Are you ready to stop chasing and start attracting agent referrals on demand? Book a call at MortgageMarketing, Dot Pro or hit the link in the show notes. Now back to our show because how many times you, you probably, this is probably why you do this is early on you said yes to everything and then you, you gotta, you gotta pay the price.

[B]

Jeff, you hit right on the head. Trial and error. I had a great and honestly, I won't even, I don't like everyone will know who this team is locally, but I, I was the number one. They're not number one now, so I guess I could say it. There was a team that was number one in New Mexico. I was their lender for about two and a half years. They were mainly all I was working with was just them and they're a big team. They had like 20, 30 lo 20 people. I was their main lender. They had one backup lender. And I learned I was constantly going through this cycle of earning their business and not earning. And this was pre Covid and it's why I went into refis because I was like, this is terrible. I don't want to have to kiss realtor's butt every day. I don't have to work with all these new realtors. I don't want the broker calling me and chewing me out. So then I went into the refis. I'm like, oh, this is so much easier. So I would reiterate that it is trial and error. And I think that that's what some of the best of us do. And that's why training so important, that's why these podcasts are so important, is we gotta learn from each other. We gotta like, I feel like with us at least, like, you know, my boss who introduced us, you know, we're big on that, creating synergy and I think that that's really the best companies and the best loan officers are really trying to create synergy with each other. You know, we're not in competition. We're abundant mindset people here. You're not going to take something from me that wasn't mine anyway.

[A]

Do you have any radar realtors who are on your target list that you've been pursuing yet? It hasn't come together yet or you said no, there are two.

[B]

Funny enough, it's funny you say that. So there are two realtors that I would probably take even though I didn't have the bandwidth and I would just make it happen. So yes, there definitely are. And I always, I tell everyone I'm super high level and super intentional and who I go after. So I'll like, I'll get them on all social platforms. I'll make sure I star their deal so I see everything they post. I'll make sure to interact with it. I'll make sure to provide a ton of value before I ever go in for an interaction with them. Plus I kind of want to see what they're doing. I want to see what they're putting out on social media. I want to maybe even try to find some of their friends where we have some mutual contacts and really look at it as more of a holistic approach where I'm like, I, they already know me. I'm not just calling on some guy saying, hey, send me business. I think I'm better than who you're using. No, I'm totally buying into them first, making sure that we align. And then once we do, I find a good way where there is something at some point where I'm like, okay, you know, here's a, here's an in. I see this. Let me send them a DM or maybe a text or a call. Hey, man, saw you at this event. You know, I'd love a chance to sit with you. We've been, been seeing a lot of your stuff out. I really respect what you're doing. I would love to grab a bite or something and go from there. But I'm, I'm pretty low key on the pursuit part, is what I would say. And it's usually coffee topgolf, something informal. I almost never do a dog and pony show. The first meeting. It's never like, hey, here's all our cool products. Here's all the great things. It's hey, what's your family like? Hey, what do you do on the weekends? What is your lender? And I get a list of what they're not doing. And then that gets me a second meeting because I didn't talk about products. Right. I do tell them, I do believe we have superior products and rates for sure. But I want to get to know you and what's important to your business. And let me make a plan to earn your business. Let me see what you're doing. Let me make a plan. I actually go back and I plan, I strategize. Well, here's what you're doing. Here's what, from me and my experience of 20 years, this is what I would do. This is what I've seen work and not work with all the high level teams I'm working with. And I provide a solution of, hey, here, here's what I would do. And then I want to, like I said, it really is. I say that a lot. I use a hashtag, we grow together a lot. Because I really feel like that's the buy in I've been getting is the, you know, growing together. And that's, I sell that to those agents. I Haven't really went hard on those. So those two, those two guy realtor and I also kind of work with mostly guys, which is interesting because when I was younger I worked with mostly girls. You know, we all know in real estate sometimes you get sticky. So I've noticed for my life and my wife, it is much easier to work with guy realtors as it takes half of the, you know, the part away. Plus I'm a total dude, if you haven't figured that out yet. So I tend to get, get along really well with just, just dudes, you know, like, hey, do you play sports? I coach sports. My cop, my son just went to go play college football up in Kansas, dropped him off last week. So just, I love the jock type guy. The, yeah, you know, sporty guy, family guy, Christian dudes. Just something where we have something in common. And I tend to, you know, a lot of times guys don't talk to other guys. I even talk about mental health a lot on my page and kind of bring out, hey, you need a. Why you need something that is bigger than you. Because as men we don't talk about it. So I, I truly do dive into being friends. It's not lip service. It's not, I'm not doing it solely to be business because some of those guys I end up working with, like you said, those two, three guys, and then I never get a deal from them, but we're still friends, they still link up with me, they'd still accept an offer and sometimes they just have a lender for 10 years. And I love that loyalty when I have it. So I stay in touch with them and I'll let them know I'm there whenever their guy fails or if there's something that happens. But I don't really, I don't really push too hard.

[A]

Okay, you mentioned value. And let's, let's take that scenario of. For somebody listening, they have identified some realtors that they want to work with. So they're maybe doing some of the things you mentioned, they're following them online, they're commenting on their social, maybe they're sharing some of their content, et cetera. But take your two step meeting. How would you define value? What, what are some of the things or ways that you look to demonstrate value to a realtor? By the way, by the way, outside of just we close on time, right. Even though you have a very awesome team with a very articulate, non normal process. So I think there is value in you illustrating what that is. But you know, it can't just be, oh, hey, I close on time, so go ahead.

[B]

I agree. And then I even do say that, Jeff, I say closing. If you're not closing on time, that should just happen. So we won't talk about that because that's done. I don't ever talk about it again.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It should just be expected.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I would say that that's. I don't know, man. I told you. The other thing that makes me really good at my job and also really bad, Jeff, is I am hyper add if that's not obvious because I can't shut up. But occasionally I'll totally forget what the heck you just said. What was the question?

[A]

Yeah, the question is how do you demonstrate value to a realtor outside of products and service?

[B]

So generally I would say perfect example. I have a friend today who's a realtor. He's one of my best friends. He know his name's Adam and he'd probably be, he'll probably check out the podcast so he'll be happy I shot him out. But he's a perfect example of a realtor who became started out, he was a realtor five years ago. He's been working with me for three and a half every single year. His numbers have almost doubled. I'm not the only reason why, I don't think I am. I think he's also good. But we've all talked about it and us working together as friends, truly getting shoulder to shoulder with somebody that you like and actually growing together, it's so organic to grow that way. And in too many times we don't do that. So a lot of times when I do my two step meeting, the first thing I do and I think that's very important you do is share your past successes. You name drop some people you're working with, hey, I'm working with this guy. You can definitely reach out to him for a recommendation. I would highly suggest it. So and I mean all my realtor partners I've worked with for years, so it's like so easy for me. And they're well known because they're all top 100 in the area. So it's like, hey, you know this guy, reach out, ask him what he thinks, ask him how hard I'll work for you. And most of the time they don't. Every once in a while they will go to lunch or something with them. But again, my realtor, super happy, positive feedback. If anything, I get a text of man, are you sure you can handle more business? Like this realtor just called Me like, are you sure that this is a wise idea? So I would say that's part of this, the process, but adding value for me. Like I guess what I was getting with him is he called me this morning about a personal issue. So this morning he's actually somewhere else and he has some inner office stuff where he, he. Well I can't say now I said his name so I can't say what it was. I was like, realize I might post this so we don't use that issue.

[A]

Yeah, you could just leave it as inner office issues or whatever.

[B]

But yeah, inner office issue. So he called me with the inner office issue that was, you know, nothing with real estate. But he's called me because he needed a sounding board. And that's what I would say is another way you develop trust is you can't just talk to these people just about loans all day because if not, the next person comes in and wants to just bring up loans and they're better rate or lower fees or can pay more. Why wouldn't they leave? They have no value to stay with you. They don't know you personally. You haven't presented a reason or a compelling argument for you to stay. So just like we go take guaranteed, you know, guarantees elsewhere, why wouldn't they go leave if they can get more money and the other company's promising the same thing?

[A]

So again, comes back to value. It's about more than just the transaction. It's about more than just the money. I want to go back to what you said, you know, grow together and that his business grew along with yours. Does that mean that you would be bringing a realtor ideas, strategies, resources and tools to help them in their business?

[B]

Yes. So that's basically exactly what I tell them is that, you know, and then most time I even tell them in that first meeting, you know, the other big thing I do especially and when I'm meeting with someone, they're doing at least one to three deals a month if I'm personally taking this meeting. So I know they're going to be worth my time and I know they're going to be working. So what I generally tell them is when I first meet somebody for the first three months, I have a 30 minute call with them scheduled. I won't even work with them if they won't commit to it. It. So we have a 30 minute call every single week where we're going to strategize for the first 90 days. I want to make sure you're happy with my service. I want to make sure we're not missing any pre quals. I want to make sure all our buyers are followed up with. I want to make sure. If we don't have any apps, how are we going to get some? Are we going to go out door knocking? Am I going to help you with an open house? Are we preparing flyers? Are we creating Instagram ads? What are we doing? I use the word we more than anything. If you see that a lot. And it's because a lot of times lenders say you, you, you. The way my team structured my job is to rain make. I just bring deals in. Everyone else closes them. I just bring them in and I tell everyone. That's what you got to get to. You got to get to a point and you got to work your tail off to get at least one assistant. Because if you don't have at least one person on your team, it's really hard to provide the necessary value. You need to for a realtor that high level teams can, can give until you're there. So you have to be willing to work your tail off to get at least one person on the squad. Once you have one person on the team, in my opinion, it becomes much easier. Much easier.

[A]

You will again. Man, there's so many nuggets in here. The one that you just said, which is 30 minute call, right. Once a week for, for the first three weeks in launching this new partnership.

[B]

Three months. Three months.

[A]

12 meetings for three months. Sorry, it's 12 meetings. That's. That's. So what I wrote down is that's intentional versus casual.

[B]

Correct. And that's what I tell them. I, I'm a little extra. I even say it all the time. I'll say intense a lot. I'm a little intense. Sometimes I might even bug you because if I don't hear from you for a week or two, I'll probably send you a DM saying, hey, what do we got to do to get pick up our next buyer? Let me know where you need me at. Like I'll, I'll bug them. I'll definitely let them know. What do we. And I don't ever say send me a deal. I say, what do we got to do to get a deal? What can I help you get a deal with? What do you need help with?

[A]

You are intensely intentional. How's that?

[B]

I do love the word intentional value. You know, it's funny, Jeff, is that's all the Kool Aid that everyone's selling right now. So you know what? This and I, you can say A lot of things about different mortgage companies. I believe if you take every company as a learning lesson, it'll be great. I worked at Movement. Have you, you know, the Kool Aid with Movement right there. T shirt company, not a mortgage company. You know, very happy go lucky. But they taught me something invaluable in my career and that is that who you work with matters. Like the people that you surround yourself with. The level that you're going to accept from people matters because they're the first culture based company I've ever worked for. I personally believe they have too much culture now and that's why I left is that they sell culture over closing on time and other things that I think are equally as important. But I do believe that that really hit me hard with their culture and seeing, man, I can do this in a different way than being a salesman. I can do this more as a, is a partner. So they really did plant that seed on if I'm giving credit where credit's due. They do a great job at Culture and then with cmg. The main difference when I came here was we have also a super tight knit culture. They don't sell it that way, but they're totally get loans done. Like we're gonna get a loan done no matter what we have to do. Like, are we gonna lose money on this? Are we gonna, you know, service this ourselves? Is the owner him, like the owner himself has. I've called him and he's literally given my clients loans. Like just like, hey, we're gonna, I'm warehousing that we'll get that done and we'll refinance them next year. So I feel like you do need to properly align yourself with the company that has the same values as you. And the reason that I can quantify my numbers is I feel like my company values my customers as much as I do. My biggest fight with my underwriter is I care too much. Once I'm bought in, I get very invested and I get, I buy into the customer story and I'm kind of sold. And at that point it's easy for me to sell the underwriter because I'm like, this client deserves this house. They deserve this loan. We're going to get them this loan, man. I don't care what we got to do. I've already promised it. We're going to do it.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

So I don't just sit there and roll over and when something gets hard, I'll double tap at that point and we'll find a Way through it.

[A]

Yeah. I know so far with my interactions with some of the leaders at cmg, again, it all comes back to leadership. Right. And so definitely some great leaders there.

[B]

Chris is a stud, man. He's such a stud. I've never had a cooler owner. That dude is a student.

[A]

Okay, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna put the cherry on top of this one. I want for everybody listening. I've got like my page of notes here, and if there is one takeaway that I think anybody could take apply in their business right now. I thought of it in this context, Paul, which is you do an. You have an onboarding process for agents. Like, that is unique, rare. And that also says something about who you are as a company, yourself, as a. As your own team, and how. How much when a realtor hears you say, well, look, let me tell you, Jeff, here's how we work with new realtor partners like you is we have an onboarding process. And here's what that looks like. Boom, boom, boom. Here's what the goal. Like when you map that, the realtor's like, wow, I just arrived at the Ritz Carlton or something. Right? That's incredible.

[B]

I love it. I think it just sells. It sells your commitment to them. And that's what I say. I say I have a plan. Because unlike other lenders where I'm just begging for your business, I have a plan. I've intentionally went after your business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I tell them at that point. I was very intentional. I liked what you were putting out. I feel like we're proper. I use the word aligned a lot. Lot. We're property aligned. We're sharing a lot of vision. So I'd love a chance to show how those align. And then we, you know, we just close. Yeah.

[A]

You mentioned you did movie night. Do you do any other types of, you know, educational events or classes and that type of stuff as well?

[B]

Oh, my gosh. So we have had some crazy recent success on TikTok with one of my realtor partners. He has a pretty big tick tock. He has 40, 42,000 followers on TikTok. And we've been doing lives once a week for one hour. In that one hour, we average three to five applications right there. Just one hour. And all we're doing is live answering questions live on TikTok, which I. I'm honestly 40 some here, so I'm not hit that hit, man. But it's crazy. And then what we started to do with that, we've now done it. This will be Our third home buyer seminar is. He and I built a home buyer seminar that we do one out once a month. At the end of every month we do a free home buyer seminar. You get a free soft pull on your credit. You know, so there's a whole again, I'm very systematic. We want to process the system so he, you know, he basically will send all these invites. We, last time we had 38 people that had registered, 25 showed up. Out of the 25 that showed up, this was the first time we had 11 people apply, six already are pending. Out of those 11 and that was one hour. So that is super new to me. I'm only like, we're. This is active. This was just starting two, three months ago. He's kicking butt. He's. His numbers have never been so good, so he's having his best 90 days, which is obviously helping my 90 day running tally as well. But again, another super intentional example of something that I brought to him. So he didn't, that wasn't his idea. I told him, hey man, how do we reach your TikTok audience better? Like you're putting out these videos, I know you're getting dms, but how can we really separate the high level people, the looky lose from the people that want to buy in? Like, what do we got to do, Chris? And he's like, I don't know, man. I was like, well, I've done home buyer seminars. Do you think you're cool with that? Maybe we set up a, a, an invite link. You know, we'll push it out on this, we'll boost it. He was all for it. We tried it and it worked right away. Super happy. I've been working with that guy for about a year.

[A]

Yeah, that was an online event.

[B]

Everything's online about that. We do a teams, teams meeting. We put together with chat GBT put together about five screenshot or probably five each, so five lending ones. We go through the whole home buying process. Super low pressure, no nothing, you know, hey, no pressure. At the end of it, we basically tell them that Chris is going to reach out to send them my link. I don't even bug these people. He reaches out, sends them a link, tells them that link's gonna get you a free credit report and Paul's gonna call you to give it to you and he'll also let you know if you qualify for any first time in buyer signups. That's all I call, I tell them what their credit is and tell them if they qualify, if they qualify, then we Just run with it. Obviously they usually want to buy, they just don't want to be sold.

[A]

So is the link just a soft pull or a loan app or what is it so our.

[B]

No, it's only to my short pre qualification app. So it's like a two page high level application name, you know, Databird, Social. How much you make? It's not the hundred question, you know, big one, that's enough. So it's just. Yeah. And then we just only pull transunion which of course doesn't give them a credit.

[A]

D wow, that's sounds like you'll be doing that again.

[B]

And then it's just super high level. And that what we sell there is that we're basically we tell them already right away we know that you may not be ready to buy today. This is just informational and whether you buy in six months or two years, we don't care. We're going to still be in the industry. So I'm going to set you up on a plan. And you'd be surprised how many people don't know they qualify. I tell everyone, you know, don't be worried about getting tough credit. The tough credit, give them a resource, let them go out and do it, don't put any other energy into it. But I would say about half the people that tell me they don't qualify qualify. So it's just really getting to that point and filtering through the data.

[A]

All right, so that was a TikTok live stream slash first time homebuyer class.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Okay, brilliant. Are you doing anything different to close out 2025, adding to your business plan in terms of activities, anything like that?

[B]

So right now every company has their like president's club ambassador. So I definitely am shooting for 50 mil which is at our company's president's club. I had a slow start January and February so I should hit that. So yes, I am. But basically my. I tell everyone my, my science is way worse than everyone else's because I'm lucky to have so many leads and so much data. What I basically my plan is to do is what I do is any day I don't pen by Wednesday if I don't already have three new contracts pending, I double the amount of outbound calls I have to make. And I've been doing that for probably since March of this year. So I do again count that as part of why I'm succeeding more is, you know, again the more the algorithm the more context you make, the more deals you're going to close. So for me I've already figured out my best cost per action item is me getting on the phone and making outbound calls. I'm super talkative. I know how to communicate over the phone and you know, do teams and show people using mortgage coach and other tools, you know, the value of different loan scenarios. So I love just if I'm on the phone, I'm making the most contacts, I'm reaching the most people. That's what I got to do. So I would say that's for me. But for everyone else, you got to figure out for your niche and how you work, what is your single most high level action, what is going to give you more times than not more deals with the least amount of work and figure out a way how to double that performance. How do I get more out of that same action? That's going to be your best way to, you know, to close out 2025.

[A]

Love it, love it. Know which growth levers to pull that's going to give you the biggest ROI on that.

[B]

Oh, I like how you said it way better. I, I said I'll say it in lamest terms. You'll see the educated version.

[A]

Jeff, no, this has been awesome. All right. There's so much more to learn, learn from you and one of the things I want to do is make sure people connect with you. So the number one place to go is your Instagram. What is that handle again?

[B]

Home loan superhero.

[A]

Home loan superhero. We'll link that up in the show notes. Go check out some of the cool content you're doing there, the resources you got in there, all that kind of jazz. I know you're super busy, Paul. Appreciate you carving out time for your day to share your amazing success. Congratulations and let's, let's stay connected, man.

[B]

Awesome, Jeff, thanks for having me on. Appreciate you, man.

[A]

My pleasure, listeners. You know what to do. By the way, go follow Paul and share with him the one big idea you got here today. Whether it was the, you know, the 30, the onboarding call with the realtors, whether it was the delivering the value to realtors, the virtual home buyer seminar, whatever it is, just let them know the one takeaway you got from here and we'll see you guys in the next one.

[B]

Jeff, I would probably like to say one other thing. I am super accessible as you've reached out as well. So if any lenders ever have any questions, a lot of people in my company do, please DM me. I'll jump on a phone call with you, give you anything that you have. Like I said, on the call. I'm an abundant guy. I love creating synergy. I love giving out to people. So if there's a time or something I'm doing or something on the call that you're like, hey, what's this? Or do you have a template for that? Or what are you doing? What? Exactly. Four points. I have most of these things written down in Word documents so I can provide them.

[A]

Awesome. Very generous, Paul. Appreciate it. See you on the next one, guys. Bye for now. Okay, that's it for today's episode. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to remind you about my agent classes. Your proven system to double your agent referrals in just 90 days. Imagine never having to cold call again. Instead building real lasting relationships with top producing agents who want to send you business with done for you presentations, marketing, automation, weekly coaching. It's all designed to make growing your business easier and fun. So if you're ready to take control of your agent referrals and grow your income, visit MortgageMarketing Pro or check the link in the show notes. And while you're there, don't forget to check out the success stories from other mortgage bros who've already seen incredible results. Thanks for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.