Podcast Episode Summary

Mortgage Marketing Radio

Episode: Future Proof Your Mortgage Marketing: Merging AI with Human Connection
Host: Geoff Zimpfer
Guest: James Duncan, Founder of Kylo Advisors
Date: November 10, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the intersection of artificial intelligence (AI) and human connection in mortgage marketing. Geoff Zimpfer sits down with James Duncan, a seasoned marketing strategist in the mortgage industry, to discuss how mortgage professionals can modernize their marketing strategies using AI—without sacrificing the trust and personal touch that drive relationships and results. The conversation highlights practical approaches, the evolution of personal branding, common pitfalls, and actionable strategies for future-proofing mortgage marketing.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of Mortgage Marketing & Referrals

• Geoff sets the stage by highlighting the importance of visibility.
• Many loan originators fail to generate referrals because not enough agents know they exist—“You're a secret agent” (01:07).
• The most effective way to scale referrals: Increase reach and engagement among real estate agents by providing valuable content (not just cold calls or standard classes).

2. Introducing James Duncan & Kylo Advisors

• James recently launched Kylo Advisors, focusing on educating C-suite executives at mortgage and real estate firms on modern marketing strategies (06:46).
• Aim: Shift industry messaging away from rate competition and toward problem-solving and improved consumer education.

Notable Quote

"The mortgage industry as a whole has done a notoriously horrendous job in educating consumers on what truly matters… We've been woefully inept in giving and delivering the right message to the consumer." — James Duncan (07:14)

3. Marketing Messaging: From “Shiny Objects” to Problem-Solving

• Common industry mistake: Messaging focuses on technical product details—such as loan programs or catchphrases like "Date the Rate, Marry the House."
• The need for differentiation: Avoid “sea of sameness” by focusing on specific value and problem-solving prowess instead of generic “best” claims.

Memorable Exchange

Geoff: "How does that [same messaging] create any differentiation at all?"
James: "...If you're able to step back and say, 'We are the only lender that does xyz,' then that's something that resonates. Really? You’re the only one that can do that? Then prove it."
(14:28–15:54)

4. Defining the Role of Marketing

• Marketing should inform consumers about the problems you solve and why you exist, not just promote products or generate “fluff” content (19:03).
• Advertising is a subset of marketing—it's about making new connections, while marketing encompasses messaging and relationship-building.

Quote

“The role of marketing is effectively to inform consumers on the problems that you solve.”
— James Duncan (18:42)

• Measuring effectiveness is nuanced; attribution is a challenge due to the cumulative effect of touchpoints (20:50).

5. Personal Branding in the Age of AI

• Personal branding is not about logos, slogans, or color schemes; it’s the genuine reputation you build through consistent actions and client impressions.
• Many loan officers misunderstand this, thinking they need a catchy tagline or bespoke branding assets to stand out.
• Real personal branding: “Your clients define it. It’s the impression people have of what it’s like to work with you.” (26:10–26:47)
• Concrete example: A loan officer rebranding herself as the “Mortgage Fixer Upper” based on her expertise and reputation for handling difficult loans, rather than using a gimmicky title (29:49–34:46).

Notable Quote

“Personal brand is basically just your reputation. That’s a simple way of putting it. The quicker people get to that understanding, the easier the conversation becomes.”
— James Duncan (26:10–26:47)

• Consistency and authenticity are key: What you repeatedly put out defines your brand, intentionally or not.

6. The Intersection of AI and Personal Branding

• Geoff and James debate the appropriateness and future of AI-generated content, avatars, and synthetic influencers (39:43).
• James is wary of deception: AI should never be used to mislead clients into thinking they are dealing with a real person if they are not.
• Appropriate uses: AI-generated video/audio for routine FAQs or procedural information, as long as disclosure is clear (41:21–43:08).

“In the mortgage industry, there is zero place for deception. Ever.”
— James Duncan (40:02)

7. Practical Uses of AI in Mortgage Marketing

• James details using AI as a powerful research assistant: rapid company web audits, digital footprint analysis, and competitive intelligence that would otherwise take weeks (44:14).
• AI is most effective in the background—aggregating data, preparing analysis, and optimizing organizational strategy.

"AI to me is one of the most knowledgeable research assistants… There are things in the analysis and the strategic talks I have with clients—research that would take me two weeks to do, AI can do it in minutes.”
— James Duncan (44:08)

• AI in generative search (GEO): Opportunity for local brokers and lenders to compete with big-name companies by creating authoritative, context-rich content that AI tools cite and recommend (47:45–51:37).

8. Action Steps to Future-Proof Mortgage Marketing with AI

• Don’t fall for claims that anyone can guarantee you’ll be cited in AI search results (52:16–52:24).
• Focus on:
  • Developing authoritative, expert content (not “fluff” blogs).
  • Formatting for LLM (Large Language Model) ingestion: include clear meta descriptions, schema, FAQ sections, and be intentional about repeat messaging.
  • Understanding and leveraging the shift from classic SEO to Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) as search moves from keywords to intent, context, and authority.

Key Advice

• Retain or hire strong copywriters; language, structure, and intention matter even more as AI models leverage them for citation and response formulation (58:38).

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On industry messaging’s failure:
  "We've been woefully inept in giving and delivering the right message to the consumer." — James Duncan (07:14)

• On the “Date the Rate, Marry the House” trend:
  "I don't want to say it was an abysmal failure, but… as a marketing director… our brand is not gonna be associated with that comment." — James Duncan (11:19–12:05)

• On personal branding myth:
  "Personal brand… absolutely nothing to do with the logo you use, the team name… the font. It is the impression people have of what it's like to work with you." — James Duncan (26:10–26:47)

• On AI and deception:
  “In the mortgage industry, there is zero place for deception ever.” — James Duncan (40:02)

• On the promise and risk of AI search:
  “If anybody promises you ‘we can get you cited on ChatGPT searches,’ hold on to your wallet.” — James Duncan (52:16)

• On copywriting’s new importance in AI:
  "If you recently fired your copywriter and they were skilled, consider hiring them back… they understand innately how language works and how to structure things in a very specific manner." — James Duncan (58:35)

Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–04:12: Host introduction, importance of agent engagement
• 04:12–06:46: James Duncan background, purpose for founding Kylo Advisors
• 06:46–14:28: Traditional vs modern marketing messaging
• 14:28–19:03: Differentiation, “sea of sameness,” product messaging pitfalls
• 19:03–22:08: What is the true role and measure of marketing?
• 22:08–38:28: Personal branding: pitfalls, myths, and real examples
• 38:28–43:43: AI, avatars, and the future of synthetic content in mortgage
• 43:43–51:37: AI use cases for research, auditing, and competitive leverage
• 51:37–59:15: Generative Engine Optimization (GEO), actionable strategies, AI’s evolving influence
• 59:15–end: Closing thoughts, resources, and guest contact info

Takeaways For Mortgage Professionals

• Embrace AI for what it is: A powerful supporting tool that accelerates research and insight creation—not a replacement for genuine human connection.
• Focus on relationships: Trust and reputation remain central. Use AI to amplify your reach and efficiency, but keep client interactions authentic and personal.
• Create unique, problem-solving content: Stop mimicking the field—stake out your expertise, articulate it clearly, and repeat it consistently.
• Prepare for GEO: Shift from classic SEO to providing comprehensive, authoritative answers in content formats AI models prefer.
• Maintain compliance: Stay creative, but adhere to industry regulations and ethical boundaries—especially in content and AI usage.
• Audit your digital presence: Regularly review your web assets and optimize for the evolving search landscape.

How to Connect

• James Duncan LinkedIn: [LinkedIn profile link in episode notes]
• Kylo Advisors: caelumadvisors.com (C A E L U M Advisors, “ers” spelling)

This episode is a must-listen for mortgage professionals and marketing executives who want to stay ahead—combining the efficiency and reach of AI with the irreplaceable value of human relationships.