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- [00:00]
A
Hey, it's Jeff Zimfer. Welcome back to the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. Happy New Year. If it's been a minute since you have tuned in, or if this is your first time tuning in, I appreciate you tuning in and hopefully you find this episode impactful and valuable. I'm about to approach 400 episodes. Stay tuned for a very special announcement we've got coming around that a very special guest I have today. But before we get there in just a moment, I've been away for a couple of weeks. I think the last podcast I produced or published was on January 3rd. So I've been away because I've been working through my health challenge, in case you haven't heard, recent throat cancer diagnosis, which has kind of taken me off the normal schedule, if you will. But you know what, the show must go on. And it's not what happens in life, but how you respond that makes all the difference. So I took a little bit of time out to, you know, follow the protocol that I've been given in terms of like some chemo treatments, two chemo treatments, and now I'm off to radiation starting February 2nd, where I'll need to relocate from Las Vegas to Orange County, California, my old stomping grounds, where I'll be getting treatment as I have for the last couple of months at UCI Irvine. And this is, I'm just sharing this in case people want to know because people have reached out and asked. And so what I'll be going through next is the rounds of radiation. So once a day, every day for five days. And on one of those days, I have to go twice. I'm calling it Happy hour. So that's the spin on the mindset, right? Trying to keep it positive, but, you know, but. So that'll probably be the most difficult journey of this overall challenge. But I'm leaning into my faith, leaning into my relationship with God. He's with me as I go through this. And I know you, you listeners, some of you have reached out and I appreciate that a heck of a lot. You are with me as well, and together we are stronger. So I appreciate that. I post occasional updates on social media, LinkedIn and Instagram primarily. So if you want to follow along, you can follow along there. Anyway, just wanted to give you a quick update on a personal note. So if I, you know, I'm a little bit off in terms of consistency. That is the reason why. But I do appreciate you tuning in. Before we get to today's special guest, I got a question for you. Here we are, 2026, January 27th that I'm recording this Q1 is where you build that momentum, right? What you do over the next 90 days, even the next 30 days, kind of sets the tone and the momentum for this new year. So first and foremost, are you engaged? Are you locked and loaded? I talk talk to loan officers all across the country and one of the consistent challenges is building that steady base of Realtor referrals. How do you get engagement, how do you get in conversation that leads to conversions? See, most of the the problems that you have with agent referrals is you're probably not talking to enough agents. Do you need more agents, better agents or both? Most often the answer to that is both. And so if that's you, I've got a solution for you. I'm launching something brand new. It's called the Agent Referral Accelerator. It's an eight week live cohort kicking off in February. It's designed to help you get consistent agent referrals by using a proven modern one to many system that's built around teaching high impact agent classes that convert. It's proven I've been doing this for a decade. It's how I built my business. And I'm going to put a link in the show notes. You can go check it out, but it's get moreagents.com we've got the success stories up there, the results. You know people that are adding, you know, millions of dollars to their production every single time they do a class. It's like referrals on demand. So maybe there's something there for you. Go check it out. @getmoreagents.com we launch in February, so and there is limited availability. Go check it out now today on the show we're diving into a question that should be on your mind. How do you future proof your business and become a modern mortgage advisor who can scale, lead and win no matter what the market throws at you? And help us answer that. I'm joined by Amir Syed, co founder and CEO of Go Coaching. He's an executive board member at First Home IQ and a billion dollar originator who's helped shape some of the best loan officers in the country. Amir is known for delivering no fluff, no bs tactical strategies that produce results and is here to drop a real talk on mindset, marketing, recruiting and referrals. So in this episode we talk about three primary takeaways for you. The five intelligences every top lo needs in today's market. How to scale with leverage instead of burnout. And how to expand your referral base beyond agents without losing your hedge. So if you're serious about making a breakthrough this year, this is the one conversation you don't want to miss. Let's get into this week's show.
- [04:17]
B
Beer.
- [04:18]
C
Welcome to the show and thank you for having me. Jeezy honored.
- [04:21]
B
My pleasure. Man. It's been a long time coming. You've been on my radar for quite a while. You're obviously making some huge waves in the industry in a good way, which is good. And a lot of people heard who you are, kind of the background, the success you've had in the industry thus far in the intro. So I want to use our time wisely together because you have the opportunity to not only are you, you know, highly successful originator yourself in terms of production and units, but also for a number of years you've been, now you've been coached by some of the best, but you're also coaching yourself and coaching some of the best in the country. So I wanted to open up with this. It is, you know, January 22, 2026, and we're recording this and I want to know what would a mirror. What would be the, the playbook or the top three plays you'd be running, right, to build that momentum for, let's just say Q1 or the first six months of this year. What are the maybe top three plays you. You're going to be running?
- [05:12]
C
Well, thank you for that, for those very nice words. Very, very grateful for them. I'm just taking them one day at a time, I think. So we're top of 2026. I presented yesterday in front of like 400 Los for Ruoff Mortgage in Fort Fort Wayne, Indiana. Awesome crew. A little bit, a little bit colder than I like to be in. I'm in Miami now. I'm a former Chicago kid, but we turned it up, man. We heated in that ballroom, right? And I had talked to him about this exact same thing. I said, you know, last year there was only about 200,000 ISH loan officers that closed just one loan, right. We got that data off rudder, right? And, and this year is projected that, you know, it's going to be somewhere around 200, 225,000 as well. That just closed one loan. And there's almost 2.2 trillion in mortgages being originated. We're finally like right sizing, you know, and in 2020, 2021, you know, almost like seven, eight years of mortgage origination happened in a matter of two years, right? And so there was a lot of right sizing has to take place. And I said, I'm really excited for these roaring twenties, but I said, look like you cannot lean on pre Covid skills, right? And so I'll answer your question very specifically in a second dz, because it's a, it's an insightful one. I said what I observed. The most successful LOS post pandemic, they have five quotients of intelligence. And I'm very fortunate. I get to coach some of the top in the country right now. And I see it, right? And they have a, they have basically iq, right? They have, they're, they're smart, they know how to discern situations. Second, they have high eq. They stay very equanimous. They don't lose their cool, right? They're, they're, they're very constant in terms of when they get rejected from a rate shopper, a realtor, you know, basically fires them. They don't, they handle their emotions really well. They stay attuned to, to people. They treat people how they want to be treated and not how, you know, that alone wants to be treated. They have a high eq, which is an important quality in life. Now, where does the mortgage stuff happen? They have really strong PQ product intelligence, right? So they're, every single day they're brushing up on guidelines, reading programs and products. It gives them the confidence, right, to understand what's happening. You can't just skirt anymore and just show up. A lot of loan officers were like amazing basketball players in high school, just of sheer athletics. They show up and drop 40 points on people. Now you're in the pros, dude. You can't just show up. And realtors are smarter, consumers are smarter. So they're brushing up on their PQ number four Jeezy is going to be what you'll love, right? Being in the space that you're in. In as well is what I call TQ technological intelligence. Many of them are still talking to their teams in email versus Slack, for example, right? Many of them are still communicating with their teams on text message and their clients on text message. Where some of the best LOs are using resources like Verizon, you know, business services or Ringcentral, you know, or dialpad, right? Which is a, is a, is, is a, you know, really harmonious type of team dialing system. Many of them know how to use loom housing, link, trust engine. They're embedding these things in their business. And not to mention the biggest one, which is AI, right? They're embracing technology. They're really, really cutting through the Noise of like a lot of bells and whistles. The last right, is what I. What I call aq, which is right in terms of what I do, which is acquired intelligence, the best of the best. Learn like a white belt every day and kick ass like a black belt, right? It's the ones that just don't want to ask questions, right? It's the ones that are getting coached. And I'm not saying some plug for coaching. Like, I have nothing to sell anybody, you understand, But I do think you have to have people around you that are getting the results that you want. You have to go to masterminds, you have to go to events, you have to be coached. You have to be in an exclusive community of learning they're always acquiring. Yesterday on stage, I asked the group, I asked this to everybody. So if you're listening to this and I come to a stage near you, right? One of the questions I always ask Jeezy, as I say, hey, be honest with me by show of hands, how many of you in the last 30 days read some programs or product guidelines? Now everybody's hand goes up, right? Then I say, okay, now be honest with you, because no one's going to be shamed here, okay? How many of you in the last 30 days have read a sales book cover to cover, A marketing book cover to cover, right? Listen to at least eight hours, two hours a week of a podcast, not around Joe Rogan and what he thinks about landing on the moon, right? In terms of like, do you understand your business? Have you listened to Jeez Podcast or Shayla? I gave you guys a shout out. Very few people raise their hand. I said, that's the problem. Okay, all of you think you're loan officers. You're people officers. You have to know how to study people. You study people, you will get loans, right? So with all that roundabout way of. What I'm explaining is I am a walking testimony, right? A lot of you know my story if you don't. I mean, basically a high school dropout that came in with nothing from another country. My mom couldn't get job, McDonald's. My dad was working as a shoe salesperson. Like, I don't. I don't come from much, right? I didn't go to college, but I was able to lap people in the industry because I embraced those five intelligence. And I did a lot of contact. I called a lot of people. So number one, I want everyone listening to this to understand you need. No one's going to promote you or pre suede your business better Than you. Number one is I would pick one by one by one. I pick one platform, Facebook, whatever. I post once a week, you know, so that's a one by one by one, one platform post once a week. You have to take control of your personal brand, right? You have to be what you call Jeezy, which I love. Five mile famous shout out to you, right? You have to be seen by thousands before being known like trusted and loved. Some of you listening to this in your mind, you think you're Arnold Schwarzenegger, which means you can go to the gym and bench press 225. But when I get you to the lone Alpha Sur gym, you can barely bench press 45 pounds. We all think were happy, healthy and like six packs in the world of mortgages. If I had you give me your realtor list, you probably only have 10 agents that have referred you and you don't even like five of them, right? We have to get a thousand agents to basically connect with us either on our email newsletter. So you have to take advantage of that. Right? The second thing, and I can go on and on in terms of what is the quality content. Second is persuasion. Okay? Every single person here cannot leave the week unless they have had five to seven people they've gotten in front of, either through zoom or either through, you know, in person. And I want people to understand they have to diversify, that they don't need to constantly go after realtors. They need to have less concentration, risk, get some financial advisors, get some estate attorneys, diversify the week. But the phone is not a cactus, man. It ain't going to prick you. Pick up the phone, you understand? Now three, okay, is what I say, operations. So we got marketing, sales and us. If you're listening to this and you're closing five to seven loans a month consistently and you're putting in 10 loans in the pipeline every month. You are about to break out and you are one superstar higher away from absolutely exploding. Otherwise you're going to continue to hit what this calls pain line of which is leverage, right? So in life, the two most important decisions is our life partner and our loan partner, right? You have to go out there and hire the best superstar loan officer assistant to take off the structuring of pre ops, the managing the pipeline, right? So a, you can double your production without also losing your momentum in your personal life. And before the market gets busy, there are so many great loan officer assistants sitting around waiting to get hired by you. Hire before necessary. You're an entrepreneur, right? You're going to have to hire when you're not ready is the bottom line. Right. So that's, that, that's, that's my thoughts.
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B
Yeah, I love that. There's a lot of good nuggets in there, man. I'm taking some notes. The last thing you just said is higher before you know you're ready or I wrote down build capacity in advance. Right, sir?
- [13:13]
C
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right, man.
- [13:15]
B
Because I'm sure you've seen it where, yeah. All of a sudden, I mean, if you have this mental block about ramping up your units and your volume and things like that, you could unconsciously be holding back because you're like unconsciously saying to yourself, well, when I hire that loa or whenever I get that. Right. And that's why you want to kind of build for capacity. Do you agree with that?
- [13:36]
C
I think that's dead on. I think. Think about it like this, G for everybody listening, when we first get into the mortgage business, you understand if you have a heartbeat and you're 18 or over and you don't live under a bridge, we think we're going to get a, we're going to, you're going to get a loan. But as we get better, we become more discerning in terms of which realtors to work with and which borrowers to work with. The second SK we have to develop is hiring skills of, you know, our loan partners. It's a skill. Yeah, right. And I've hired, fired, promoted, laid off, furloughed over a thousand people. And I can tell you some of the people that I've hired, it's a skill that I created. So now what I tell people is you have to put a post on Wisehire. Right. And you have to have one interview every single two weeks. Now I like a pre live and post interview process. The pre G is anybody that sends their resume and you like it, you have to ask them to upload a two minute video and answer two questions. Right. What compelled you to, you know, apply for this job?
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B
Right.
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C
And tell me what it is I can expect of you if you join the team. People are AI ing their resume. This is, this is AI like neutral. If you have to see if people follow directions in the process of self selection and if they're technologically sound and how they look on camera and if they can speak. Right. Without sounding like Chewbacca. Right. So that's in itself, you have to constantly be getting that motion going. Now when you're on an interview, your proficiency test, because a lot of these Loan partners, they're loan paper pushers. You have to get very good in the art of discovery. Do you understand? So some of the questions I asked is I tell a loan partner too. I say, you know, it's great to meet you. Right. I'm just going to ask you some general proficiency questions because I want to see their eyes. I don't want them on ChatGPT. I don't want any of that. G, I said first question, we'll do some low hanging fruit. What does FHA stand for? What's LTV stand for? What's DTI stand for? What's the difference between Fannie and Freddie? If I was a fifth grader, you'll be shocked or maybe you won't be shocked. How many of them don't know the answers to that?
- [15:40]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [15:41]
C
Once they get past $100 jeopardy questions then I go a little bit different, more difficult. I want to know does my loan partner to possess my five Cs do they know cash, credit, capacity, collateral and do they have communication skills?
- [15:54]
B
So I asked them.
- [15:54]
C
Cash. Hey, let's do some scenarios. You get a bank statement. What's the top five things you're looking for in the bank statement? Credit. You get a credit report. Top 5 things you look for. Capacity. You get a pay stub. W2 borrower. What do you look for? You get an appraisal. What's the top two or three things you look for? People just don't know how to interview and you'll be shocked how these people don't know how to answer it. Now the last thing we do, Jeezy, because I'm a tactical guy, I'm no fluff all stuff, you understand. So what happens at the end of that call is I, I asked them, I say, look, I'm interviewing a lot of people. I'm really interested in bringing you on board. I have one last assignment for you. You're going to send me an email by 5pm Eastern tomorrow and you're going to, you're going to three answers to three questions. Are you ready? They say yes. I said I want you to describe what culture you thrive under, what type of culture you thrive under. I want to know what you want in your career because I'm looking to grow leaders here. And three is I want to know what your compensation goals are. It's my three C's now G. What I'm looking for is if they ain't taking notes, that's a problem, right? If they don't get me that email before 5pm Eastern. It's a problem, right? If they can't write like in a professional, it's a problem Chat GPT, for God's sake. I'm okay with it. At least you're resourceful. But I'm going to know visually, what is your vision and goals? Are you just trying to be a loan officer on my team? Is, am I a rental loan officer for you until the market turns back? Do you really just want to be an underwriter? Do you want to be a florist? I want to see what they're thinking, and I also want to know what are their income goals? Not to negotiate against them, but if they can't follow direction and they're not taking notes and not writing it down and explaining to me articulately, because, you know, a lot of these loan processors, they don't know how to type. So I hope that helps your audience understand. You have to go out there and get really good staff and do not pay peanuts. Some of you listening to this are very. You're very cheap when you pay peanuts. You get monkeys. Okay? You got to pay these people top dollar, top dollar. Reinvest one loan that you close a month back into your business and get human capital.
- [17:59]
B
I like that. That's a good one. All right, let's pivot a little bit. So that was a great lesson in, like, you know, people. And so I remember. I don't know if you back in the day, remember the show, perhaps the Prophet with Marcus Lemonis, if you remember that show, he would come on and.
- [18:12]
C
A lot of process, baby.
- [18:14]
B
There you go. That's where I'm going, people. Yeah, process. Also, nowadays, technology. But let's. So this is kind of. That's kind of what you mapped out there was the people piece of that. Let's get into process for a second, because I know you talk to ellos. I interface with hellos, and they fill out a form before they come to me about, like, achieving a goal. Like, let's say this is. That this is the thing. And Lo fills out a form. And they did. They said, oh, I did, you know, 12 or 15 units, 20, whatever it is. And they want to add, you know, let's say they want to double their business. They want to go from 20 to 40 units this year. You with your coaching hat on. How do you unpack? Test the waters with them to see how serious they are. But more importantly, do they understand the task at hand? And specifically, what would need to be done for somebody to double their units in 12 months?
- [19:00]
C
Okay, very timely. Question, right? Top of the year. February is quitters month, okay? So a lot of people quit in February because they're missing a few things, right? Jeezy. So I think I've become a master in, you know, goal setting. Just over 10 years I've gone out and I. And I know this is a very difficult topic. So you're. You're throwing me a really nice little layup here right in the batteries box. So number one, what I want people to understand is that really, like, a lot of salespeople overestimate what they can do. So, you know, you've heard the saying, I don't know who to credit it to. But people far overestimate what they can do in a year and far underestimate what they can do in 10 years. So we got to slow down, right? So going from 20 to 40 units, unless something happened last year in your personal life, right? But that tells me right off the bat, someone doesn't know how to properly set a blueprint. That's a big sign to me that this is an amateur I'm talking to. Because I like a BTS system budget target stretch. Now, I don't judge them because I think at the end of the day, people need help, right? They never taught these things in school. The budget is, you cannot go backwards of what you did last year. So you got to do at least 20 units, right? You might have done 100 units and you love your life, but we're not going backwards. The target has to be 20% growth, minimum. The stretch is 40% growth. So 20 to 40 is a double. I'm like, bro, what, what, what? What happened? All of a sudden you get. You got some magic pills and you're about to do 20. Like, no, it's not going to happen. Like, let's just slow down here. You understand? Like, we're going to be all right if you do more than 40. Fine. But like, we're doing. We're doing a 10, 20% growth you're going to double every five years. Why? I tame them a little bit. Because what happens is they just veer when they get disappointed when they're not doing it right. So realistic goals are important. Second is, I tell them, I said, look, we're gonna set two very big goals, okay? I don't want 15 goals. I just want two. And from those two, we're gonna get five action items. What I find when people complete this two by five business goal sheet that I created, gee, it's crazy. They'll say, I want to have 10 new realtors, right, that are a realtors. And then their action items are like, I'm going to, you know, create videos for my client database. I'm like, one doesn't match the other.
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B
Yeah, right.
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C
So what the power and goals is, they have to be very specific in terms of their hope of what they want, the deadline, and has to be quantifiable. I tell them, I am on Shark tank. I am Mr. Wonderful. If you're on stage and you're pitching me your business, I know you're either a bullshitter or you're not a successful person. If you talk to me in generalities, you better be specific. And you have to think like you're pitching me on your business. So it should say, I have 40 conversations a week, right? Or I work Saturdays, I will have three lunches a week with a new realtor. Or I work Saturdays, I will have one new realtor introduction from another realtor every single week. Like, you see how specific that is?
- [21:55]
B
Yeah.
- [21:56]
C
Generalities never work. So we have to first figure out, let's tame your goals. Let's get the two big goals, and we're going to live. Now, last thing right, I will tell you, G, and I'm glad you let me cook, right, Is I make them screen share their calendar, right? I said, okay, guys, I got a white glove. That's a tough man. I said, let me see your calendar. And most of my biggest producers, they're locked in that. I said, okay, where's your date nights, right? Because if you're not winning at everything, you ain't winning at anything. You understand? Like, where's your date night? Where's your daddy daughter date? That's what you told me you wanted me to do. You want to be a better father. Okay, I like the Missouri State slogan. Show me, right? Don't tell me I'm the show me state. Show me, where's your daddy daughter date. You understand how you can be a better father, right? Show me your workouts. You want to be in good shape. Where's your workouts at? You want to read a book every month? Show me your reading time in the morning and what the book is. Your calendar tells me everything about your character. And so I coach the best of the best. I got no time for people to blow smoke. And here's what I tell them. I said, be very careful the promises you make with me because you're dealing with elite coaching. Because how you show up with me, you are five notches lower for everybody else in your life. You got to Bring it with me. Because if you don't bring it with me, you're late for dinner with your family. You're giving a lot of powerless words. I'll probably be on time, honey. I'll try to go to the gym tomorrow. Maybe we do this. I don't live in that land. I don't deal with weak people.
- [23:23]
B
Yeah, well, and this is a business that.
- [23:25]
C
And some of you in the audience.
- [23:27]
B
Yeah, yeah. So this is a business that will. That will weed out, you know, those that don't have a strong backbone or strong will or the ability to self police, you know what I mean? Their. Their actions and habits. Right.
- [23:40]
C
Check this out, guys. Everybody listen to this. I got 102 degree fever. G is fighting cancer. Right, G?
- [23:48]
B
Yes, sir.
- [23:49]
C
You're in Irvine. You're not even in your normal studio, man.
- [23:52]
B
Look at this.
- [23:53]
C
Lost my hair. All right, what do we. Bro, I'm sweating right now under this hoodie. You understand? There's. There is nothing that would have stopped me because I made a commitment to you, right? You made a commitment to me.
- [24:06]
B
Yeah.
- [24:06]
C
We're here.
- [24:07]
B
Yeah.
- [24:08]
C
A lot of people get a paper cut and they're like, my whole week is done. I can't make this call.
- [24:13]
B
Right.
- [24:14]
C
Tough enough.
- [24:15]
B
Yep. Yep. Amen to that. I love that. That's a good message. Because it's. Yeah, man. I mean, you know, the wind blows, the rates change. This happens. That happens. Some people when the rates go up, they have their best year ever. Right. How does that happen? It starts with something I know you believe in, and that's mindset. Right. Where would you place rank mindset on the ability for somebody to achieve at a high level.
- [24:34]
C
Oh, my God, man.
- [24:35]
B
What a.
- [24:36]
C
What an amazing, insightful question. At Go, we preach the 3M's mindset, mind share and market share. Okay. Mindshare is living rent free in people's minds, winning those points of thought. Right? And how you do that in the modern world is prolific content. Email newsletter, podcast, Facebook, YouTube. Right. It's a modern media. You gotta win a lot of points of thought. Market share is getting in front of people, right. And getting them to like you and trust you. You can be in a Ferrari with the most beautiful spouse in the world, have a lot of money in the bank, big house. But if you ain't happy with a cup of coffee in your hand, you ain't gonna be happy on a yacht. You ain't going to be happy in a Ferrari. That car won't drive. It all starts the mindset. And we have to work that. Like, I'm bringing on a mindset coach to go coaching. I invest thousands of dollars a month with Todd Herman, who wrote the book Alter Ego. He was Kobe Bryant's mental performance coach. I coach with them every two weeks. Right. That's the level I'm at.
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B
Right.
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C
Because I have a big responsibility right now for thousands of people. My mind's got to be right. So that could be therapy for some people. That could be mindset coaching. That could be being around the right people, journaling. Gee, what a powerful question. It's everything. Yeah.
- [25:53]
B
Yeah, exactly. You got to get that right before you get anything else. Right. That goes back to the question. I love how you kind of unpacked. And you said, let's put a pause on the Ella who wants to double their production in 12 months. Do you. Do you think that. Do they need to check their mindset as well? Kind of like you said, pump the brakes and go a little bit like, well, okay, it's a time out. You know, go a little bit deep here. Do you kind of test. Test for congruency on. Let's see if you actually believe this yourself first.
- [26:22]
C
No doubt about it, right? So what I do is I dig deep and say, why is this important for you? Like, why. Why do you. Why do you want to do 40 units? Why do you want to do 60 units? Where is that coming from? And then I asked them this. I said, what do you think? If you and I are talking exactly a year from now, we had a Delorean. We love to go into the future or back in the future. Right. We're here in exactly one year from now, and we're talking. Right. What do you think we might be talking about on that call that prevented you from doing these 40, 60 units? Ask your future self. Many of them are good at this. They'll describe vaguely what stunted them from doing that. I said, now you're aware what's going to come across your path. Right? To prevent you. A lot of people, when they set goals, Jeezy, they don't prepare for the bumps in the road, the inevitable bumps. And when they do, they get stunted and they get surprised. But if you expect it, I'm going to hit a pothole. I might run out of gas. Right. I might, you know, get a flat tire. Right. To use the analogy, it's all part of the journey, man. You know what I mean? And if I'm here, I knew this was coming. Many of them do. Don't do preventative mindset things. The Last thing I'll tell you on that, G, is I help them with all my coaches. I inject in them that they're worthy, and I have them talk to themselves a lot better. Okay? So what happens is they have to start their week and they have to have an affirmation, all of them. And one of the biggest affirmations I give them that they have to speak out loud. So at go coaching, we have a Monday mindset call every Monday at 9:30 Eastern for 30 minutes. Hundreds of people join that I might open up to the public, right? So what happens is we say all of you drop in the chat. What's your affirmation? Okay. And I want to see what their affirmation is. So I make a lot of them say, I am a top loan officer. I do what top loan officers do. Right? I am a person that sticks to my time blocking. So they have to say that and write it to remind them that, dude, you are a top producer and you do what top producers do. You understand? So we have to make sure their language is good. Constantly saying that to themselves.
- [28:28]
B
Right? Beware of the self talk. Yeah. Okay. Let's. Let's pivot for a moment and have some fun. I thought about, like, questions to ask you before this, and I think this might be a bottom line. The framework on this is let's have fun, let's have this little kind of town hall debate discussion. I've did this with somebody else before in the past, and I thought it was a good conversation because I see you obviously talk a lot about referral partners. And let's just face it, you and I both know that it's easy to throw realtors under the bus. And I'd like to riff for a little bit if you're open to it, you know, but maybe you're just going to give it one answer. You're going to say both, which is totally acceptable. Realtors versus financial advisors, Right? Let's play that out. Like realtors versus financial advisors. Is one better than the other? Or how do you, you know, put those in the pillars of, you know, sources of business?
- [29:19]
C
I think I want everyone to remember this analogy, okay? You're hungry and you're at the grocery store, okay? You're not going to fill up your cart with all broccoli, you understand? You're going to fill it up with some broccoli, some asparagus. You might throw some cocoa Puffs in there. You know, why not? Life is short, you understand? But you're gonna. You're gonna get some Stuff, right? So you can't, you can't. You gotta remember, like, I want a diversification of people in your grocery cart, right? So like some realtors are top shelf liquor, some are not, right? But you got to pick, okay? Like George, I'll give you a great example, right? And I'll tell you, Jeff, like when I have people come to my home, people know I love cigars, okay? I smoke the best of the best, but I have the cheap cigars. And so, Jeff, when people come over, I'm like, how often do you smoke? They're like, like never. I'm like, okay, here's this. And I'm like, this cigar is amazing, right? It's a $5 cigar. I'm not going to give them the 30 hour cigar for what, right? Like they don't appreciate it. You have to remember this, everybody, right? You have to treat people fairly with your time, but not equally with your time. So I want you to have lots of realtors, but don't put a gold ring on a pig. Now, I'm not calling realtors pigs. I'm going to be very careful, you understand? Like, some of them, you're treating them so good and they don't deserve how you're treating them, right? Like, they don't have a lot of business, they're not loyal to you, and it's like you have to identify them very quickly and know which shelf to put them on. Financial advisors are the same thing. So I want a diverse grocery cart, right? And I want you guys to basically understand realtors. They're not all made the same. Like, my mom has an amazing saying, Jeff, in my language, my native tongue of Farsi, right? She says, amir, you see these five fingers on my hand, they're all part of my hand, but all five are different. The pinky does one thing, the index finger does one thing. You gotta think about your realtors the same way. You guys all want your realtors to be one person. Like, they're all very different. Get a lot of them and understand how to treat each one and what to expect from each one is what I would say.
- [31:26]
B
All right, well, it's. People seem to struggle with approaching financial advisors and getting them on the bus, so to speak, right? Realtors arguably are easier. There's more of them, they're easier to reach. There's less walls up. What's your, what's your hot, quick, you know, take on your best practice for getting in front of financial advisors and turning that into something meaningful.
- [31:49]
C
Well, I want everyone listening to this or Watching to this, right? To remember this every single year your career passes, right? You should have a less percentage of reliance on realtors. When you start out, it's probably going to be 100% realtors, but after 10 years, you understand you should only be about 30% realtors. Okay? You got to take great care of your clients. Now people use the word clients very loosely and I'm a man of specificity. That's why I'm a 10th degree black belt, because I live in the decimal points and the nuance. Right? There's a difference between a customer and a client. A customer transacts once, a client transacts twice or more or refers you somebody else. Only 30% of your entire closed database will be raving fans. No matter how amazing you are in your legacy follow up process, right? 30% will be loyal to you. You have to take, you have to identify which one of those are and create a really good system around taking care of them. Which you know, if we have time, I can share with you exactly what that system is. Right? So you have to take care of your closed database. Now your closed database V. Right. Many of them need a financial advisor or have a financial advisor, right? So you have to ask them. Hey, out of curiosity, I get calls every so often around people needing financial advisor help. Like do you guys have one? And if you do, do you like him or her? Would you be open to referring me to them? You'll be surprised. 30 to 40 to 50% of your people have a financial advisor or they need a financial advisor. You could just ask your database man, right? Second thing is you'd be shocked if everybody put a post on Facebook that says looking for a reputable financial advisor. Drop your go to below. In my post you'll get 15, 20, 25 people that will tag your financial advisor. Okay. Third, ask your realtors. A lot of you have gold sitting in front of you. You just think your realtor is all about getting you home buyers. You'd be shocked how many of them have a go to financial advisor. So you just have to ask now why do I like financial advisors? There's few reasons, gee for everyone to understand this. Financial advisors are a blue ocean, Realtors are red ocean, red ocean, very bloody waters, lots of hooks in the water, right? These financial advisors, jeezy what I love about them and I love Northwestern Mutual, Edward Jones, New York Life, MassMutual. I don't like Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, UBS because they don't do a lot of volume and they do a lot of super jumbo. And they get paid from their internal loan officers. Northwestern Mutual works with a lot of early cycle buyers. It's the gateway to a lot of millennials in financial planning. So they get a lot of ECBs, early cycle buyers. They have quotas to hit in terms of their activity. So you got to be around them because usually people's first start financial advising is life insurance. So you have to have a lot of these guys around you. Northwestern Mutual agents and financial advisors, they don't refer you with multiple lenders. They don't call you after hours. They have more influence on their buyers. You understand they have sticky referrals. And you'll have a lot more happiness in your week because if you call realtors every day, you're going to get annoyed. So I like to have diversity in my week of who I'm working with just for my own mental piece.
- [35:03]
B
Yeah, yeah. What do you think the biggest mistake though is for on Realtors for a second in terms of the approach that most LOS have when they're pursuing Realtors.
- [35:14]
C
Every loan officer should have what's called an ldp, a lender value proposition. I don't like to call the elevator pitch because I don't like the word pitch. I don't like it to be called a what is it? Unique selling proposition because I don't want to sell. I like the word LVP because it's for value proposition.
- [35:31]
B
Right.
- [35:31]
C
So what I do is my coaches and I work immediately with our LOS to first understand what's unique about them. Every loan officer has something unique. They have to approach realtors in a way that, that it's a P30, a perfect 30 second approach. And the first 10 seconds is important. Verbal real estate. Right now it's a lot easier when you use modern marketing to warm up their social so they see you. Right. You reduce tension, increase trust just through persuasion tactics. But when you get in front of a realtor, number one mindset thing is you make a decision if you want to work with that realtor, don't forget that. Right? So you have to approach a lot of realtors and say in my brain, my mindset is I'm not even sure if I want to do business with this realtor. So physiologically you're detaching from the outcome, which is very important in attraction sound. Right. So number two tactically, right, Jeezy is you have to do a little pre call, stock a little pre PCs. You got to do a little affirmation and what the stands makes the realtor stand Out. But you have to have a 30 second proposition of what separates you from other loan officers and every single person listening to this. I promise you, if you gave me 15 minutes, I will give you your perfect LVP. And now you're loaded with what to say when you approach these agents. The last thing I'll say, the new ABCs of sales is not always be closing. I want you to always be cool just because they say N O it means K, N O, W. They said no, but they know you now, right? You gotta be patient with them because you don't want them to meet with you so quickly because if they meet, they cheat. You understand? So the bottom line, I'm saying, is some of you listening to this, you're overselling a small audience. You need more because you're too clingy.
- [37:19]
B
That's so good. Overselling a small audience and you're too clingy. Yeah, I always say, like, you gotta go wide before you can go deep, you know? Especially if you're in the first 10 years, like you said earlier, you know?
- [37:29]
C
That's exactly right. All right, well, listen, am I giving them. Am I giving them some gems, man, or what?
- [37:34]
B
Yeah, man, you're dropping some mad gems. Now we're going to pivot in a second to talk about how people can engage with you more. You're obviously doing this amazing thing with Growth only coaching. You've got GrowthCon coming up later this year with an amazing lineup of events and speakers. I want to transition to that once I ask you this final question, and I think it dovetails into specifically your coaching platform and your upcoming event. I see you use the phrase a lot. Modern lo. Can you articulate briefly what is the difference between a traditional versus modern lo? Like, what does that mean to you when you say that there is a.
- [38:05]
C
Modern loan advisor and a traditional loan officer? Okay, when you think about your tax advisor, you don't call him or her your tax officer. When you think about a financial advisor, you don't call him a financial officer, you understand? You don't call your attorney a legal officer. You call them a legal advisor. You understand? So what is this funny little buzzword advisor mean? Okay, a loan officer only shows up on this a transaction to be had. A loan advisor shows up when there is or there is not a transaction to be had. Okay, so I want you guys to replay what you just heard because some of you knuckleheads on here, you're very transactional. You don't know what to say and you only want to Reach out to people when you need something. Terrible way of thinking. Second, the modern versus traditional modern is embracing social, excuse me, business media, right? You depending on your tacky cheesy corporate marketing company department to send your little spring forward and fall black emails do not work anymore. People don't like fancy logos. They want you. So you have to learn how to be seen before and after. You are no like trusted and loved. And that starts with understanding social media, right? So at my heyday, how go spawned? I come from a very famous coaching community which I'm not going to mention, but a lot of people know, okay? They preach a lot of traditional fundamentals. I am the modern fundamentals, you understand? Nobody listening to this will out cold call me. That's how confident I am. You bring me your best cold caller, you put him on stage, I'm a bury him. Because I come from nothing in this business. I've made more cold calls than anyone that you know and I'm sick with mine on the phone, okay? It doesn't need to be that hard. Once I learned how to be seen on Facebook amongst thousands of agents, they started to get familiar with me because I was delivering value in advance every day to them. So when I called, the tension was a lot lower and the trust was a lot higher. That is what's called being a modern loan advisor.
- [40:17]
A
Interesting.
- [40:17]
B
You used the term earlier persuasion from Cialdini. Right, the book. So I think that that's kind of what you're talking about there with leveraging the social modern tools, right? That pre suasion.
- [40:27]
C
That's exactly right. Oh, you gotta promote your business and you got to prospect. Yeah, great marketing. Like there's a famous event that I don't really. I'm not a fan of, okay? And I'm not a hater. We gotta remember that. Okay? I'm not. I don't like it because it's like you're paying all this money and you're learning how to make videos, but you think the videos are going to be a great cop out to your selling. No, it's not. Marketing and AI are augments to you selling. Do you understand? So if you put great videos out there and you learn how to create content, you understand that stuff won't convert unless you know how to sell in the DMs with your thumbs. You know how to sell on the phone with your mouth and you know how to sell in person with your feet. You understand? Unless you're a very small sliver of loan officers that know how to do paid Content marketing at scale. But most people listening to this, they don't know that.
- [41:22]
B
Right, right, right. Which. All right, I was going to say one. That was the last thing, but actually this is a great way to put a cap on this conversation and give you back your day because I grabbed a screenshot of something you said which is understanding how to illustrate your value verbally and textually will open doors you won't believe. Like that is it right there. What you're talking about is selling like you have to be able to illustrate your value verbally and textually. Go. Just riff that for 30 seconds. Let's land the plane. My.
- [41:56]
C
Someone asked me the other day on another podcast, amir, what is your greatest possession? I said, it's my skills. They were looking for a tangible answer. In life, you are paid based on the level of value you bring to the marketplace. And that all happens through your relentless acquisition of skills. Domain skills, not how to make an origami paper plane. You understand? So I tell people, level one is add value inside yourself. Add value every day. Read the books that you're struggling with. Like right now I'm reading Atomic Habits again. I want to really dial in my habits, right? I read that book every year. My whole community is reading that. So I'm learning to be a better when it comes to my standards. You have to add value inside yourself, right? Product intelligence, all those things we talked about earlier. Because this success, as you know, as Rory Vaden say, it's not owned, man. This, this rent and this rented is due every single things are moving. The rent is due every day. Things are changing so fast. Number two, you have to illustrate your value. You have to every day share with your audience what your value is at scale through different platforms. Right? Three is you have to invite people to experience your value. Add value inside yourself, illustrate your value to others. Invite people to experience your value. You have to ask people for the business. Some of you are listening to this. You have really good loan skills. But you know why you're frustrated that you're not getting more business? Because you're like the really good looking guy at the bar that comes from a great family that has a lot of money, right? That gives his time to non for profits. But you're winking at the girl across the bar in the dark. You need to walk over and introduce yourself. You have to be more visible and you have to continuously be more able to and you have to ask people.
- [43:51]
B
I love the marriage between more visible and more capable. Right? You gotta have the skills to Be able to convert on that visibility. So speaking of developing, let's. Let's jump into this real quick. Speaking of developing skills, there's two primary ways I know that you help los do this. And you and I have some mutual clients as well. And I always hear raving fans of people that are in your growth only coaching program. Plus you have this annual event coming up which has a mad lineup. Dude, take the mic. Just riff on for those listening and those are who are thinking about coaching. Do I need coaching? Should I check Amir's out? What do you want to say on that? And then just real quickly, we'll put all the links to this in the show notes. Yeah, Promote. Promote your event, man. Go. You got two minutes, Rock.
- [44:31]
C
Okay, let's. Let's go. So listen, you guys can hit me up on ig. Amir Syed Amir S Y E D. I put out content every single day, right? Yes. You need coaching. You need marriage coaching. You need fitness coaching. You understand it's the greatest shortcut in life. You have to have people tell you your blind spots, right? So that's number, number one. I have nothing to sell you. You join my coaching. You don't join my coaching. Go get a coach, dude. You don't know it all. You understand? Don't be a kia. Don't be a know it all right? Don't do that. You have to have a high aq intelligence, okay? If it ain't broke, break it anyway. Some of you think you're. You're all that. You're not, okay? Stay humble. Go get a coach. Number three. In 2012, I was in a very bad place. I was broken in my pens. Physical, emotional, mental, spiritual. I was working my ass off 70 hours a week, barely doing a million dollars a month. And I picked up the book Napoleon Hill Thick and grow rich. And one of the things he talks about in that book, which is the masterminds, the power of masterminds. I said, I'm just not around a lot of people that are successful in the mortgage business. I'm like the Philippines on one of these thousand islands. You understand? I need to be a part of a community. Napoleon Hill is right. So a mortgage mastermind summit comes up in 2012 in Vegas. I go there, I sit front row. You understand? First guy that comes up, I swear I thought he was drunk. Second night guy that comes up. I've been divorced four times. I'm like, okay, I don't. If you're not winning on everything and I want to get anything. Third guy comes up, made Me feel. And everybody in the audience, we were pieces of shit. I didn't like that, right? Fourth guy came up, couldn't articulate what the hell he was doing. So I'm like, is this guy really doing the work? Finally, two guys came up. Taz, fema, Josh, Sigmund. You understand there was no lights, no fog machines. They just got up and they're like, this is how you make a million dollars a year and 40 hours a week, right? And I'm like, okay. I like these guys. They're like, I do this, this, this. And I'm like, that sounds like a Toyota Camry. Like, it's very basic. These guys are coming up with spinners and this. And I'm like, I like this, right? I like the basicness of it. And there's no fluff in it. So I joined that community and it took one event in person to have me understand what other people are doing and learn. GrowthCon happens every May and October. I'm on a mission to make it the number one event in all of mortgage. Okay. It's growthcon.com, right. And I'm happy to give everybody that's GZ's listener. I'll send them an email to give a discount code. You need to be in this room. We got Dr. Benjamin Hardy coming in. I wrote the book 10x is the new 2x. We got Chris Boss coming. Never split the difference, you understand? We got, we got, we got so many speakers. We got breakout sessions. There's a two day period. You will not be the same when you walk out of that room.
- [47:04]
B
Okay.
- [47:04]
C
And so you got to have different things in your life that you're around. Like, Jeezy, I saw you went to Alex Hormosi's acquisition.com headquarters, right. Were you a different person when you came out of that? Out of that? Yeah.
- [47:16]
B
In many ways that shifted my mindset. At a minimum, for sure.
- [47:19]
C
That's the bottom line. You got to be in these right groups of other entrepreneurs with people that have the results that you have. Oh, well, all of you get out your.
- [47:26]
B
Yeah. Like getting around that room of other people that are at a different level with you. It's like playing tennis with somebody who's better than you. You can't get better until you have somebody challenge you who's better than you. So very similar to being in the same. The right rooms.
- [47:37]
C
You know, Jeff, you make a great point. Why I love growthcon is because you're learning from other entrepreneurs in different industries.
- [47:45]
B
Yeah.
- [47:46]
C
You understand? So you're not Just learning from mortgage people. You're learning from other entrepreneurs, authors, right, that have agnostic principles, industry agnostic principles. We're lifting the way you think. Like I'm in a really, really big mastermind, okay. I have some of the world's best entrepreneurs in this group.
- [48:01]
B
Okay.
- [48:02]
C
You might know some of these people. We go to Dubai, we go to these places. They're very famous people on YouTube. You understand the things I learned about how they do their business. 80% is relatable to the mortgage business. And I go get that stuff and I implement it, right? So you have to have outside non industry counsel from experts and then you also got to learn industry console. So you have to have a repertoire of how you're learning and you have to force yourself to go to an industry event. This is what that event is in Chicago, May 5th and 6th, two day event. You need to be in that room. You guys get, get a bus ticket, whatever you got to do. Be around the people. You are one contact away from blowing up. One contact.
- [48:40]
B
Yeah, Amen. Amen to that. And there'll be a lot more than one contact there. There'll be obviously a bunch of ideas and stuff. So we're going to link this up in the show notes. People, go check it out. I know for the coaching it's like, hey, schedule a call, see if it's right for you. It's not. No, no sales pitch or nothing. So like I said, I mean, I've talked to. I probably talk, you know, you and I both talk to a lot of ellos, but I haven't heard one person say anything negative about your coaching or that they're not getting tremendous value. And those who are investing themselves, the ROI is there, right? So, Amir, man, listen, I know you're not feeling great today. I got my thing I'm dealing with, man. So I'm glad we were able to finally carve this out and make it happen.
- [49:17]
C
I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for having me on. I've been listening to your stuff, man. I gave you a huge shout out. I think you're one of the top three podcasts right now. In general. I mean, the way you ask questions. I hope everybody got some value out of this and they just, you know, fill their travel time in the car or their treadmill time and just learn for some of these great guests. And I gotta tell you, Jeff, for you to be here with everything you got going on, I like it, man, and I love it. Right? You're a testament to just discipline and commitment. Dude, it's an honor being on here, man. Thank you.
- [49:46]
B
Now it's an honor having you as well. So, everybody, you know what to do. Check the link in the show notes. If you. Here's what I want you to do. His Instagram and LinkedIn handle will be in the show notes. So I want you to share. I want you to connect with him. You know, follow him, but DM him the one big idea you got from today, whether it's Instagram or LinkedIn. Go find him. Just DM him, say, hey, Amir, here's my one big idea from Jeff's podcast. So, Amir, brother, I know we'll be seeing each other in person soon. I appreciate you being here. Everybody else, you know what to do. We already told you, link in the show notes. DM Amir. We'll see you on the next one.
- [50:16]
C
Guys, let's go. Yeah, let's go, baby.
- [50:19]
B
See you guys.