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- [00:00]
A
Do you struggle to stand out online even though you've got great reviews, experience and a solid reputation? Well, you're not alone. As AI driven search becomes more of the norm, many mortgage professionals are finding themselves invisible. Just imagine for a moment if you could get recommended by AI instead of being ignored by it. What we're talking about is getting found in AI search. Today you're listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio where we help mortgage professionals close more loans by building a scalable modern brand. Leveraging a one to many approach. My name is Jeff Zimfer, your host and former mortgage originator. Today on the show we're diving into a crucial question. How can you train AI to recognize you as the go to expert in your market and actually recommend you to clients? To help us answer that, we're joined today by Katie Shive, longtime friend and a brand strategist who's on my short list of go to subject matter experts. When I want to learn how to create an authentic brand that cuts through the noise, but also how how to tap into the modern marketing platforms like AI to help myself and other mortgage professionals stand out, build personal brands where they can get recommended by AI and the other search bots. But before we get into that, let's hit this week's win of the week and give a huge shout out to a myaging classes member, Tiffany Saxton. So Tiffany followed the coaching we provide and was contacting Realtors for one of the classes in our platform that's turnkey and ready to go for you, the loan officer. It's YouTube for real estate. And so what happened next is as Tiffany was finding finding an agent in her local market that was doing well with YouTube, she decided to follow the plan and actually reach out and contact this agent and invite the agent to co facilitate the YouTube for real estate agents class in her local market. Now of course that Realtor said yes. And here's what's happened since that conversation turned into a referral relationship almost instantly. So after the class, that agent starts sending Tiffany buyer leads. But it didn't stop there. She's now hosted another YouTube class with that same agent and now Tiffany is invited to be part of that agent team. And Tiffany is receiving referrals from that Asian team now on a regular basis. But it doesn't stop there. Tiffany already has a buyer under contract closing in January 2026 directly from this agent. And you know what? Now that Realtor wants to leverage the platform, Tiffany has to co host monthly YouTube classes and other classes to grow his team and put Tiffany in front of even more agents. So what's Tiffany doing? She's leveraging with the one to many approach. She's leading with value, scaling her reach and her personal brand and getting more conversations in less time, which leads to more referrals. And she's doing that all by simply following the My Agent Classes platform system. So if you want to stop chasing agents and start attracting them by leading with value first classes, just like Tiffany, check the link in your show notes or you can go visit go my agentclasses.com you'll get a behind the scenes look, hear from others, winning with the system and you'll have the option to book a call with me directly to learn more. All right, so back to the episode. In this conversation with Katie Shive, you're going to learn three key things. Number one, how to craft a core entity statement that makes you more discoverable in AI Search. Number two, why consistency across platforms is no longer optional. And number three, you'll hear the exact steps to follow to take one piece of content and repurpose it into a full digital footprint that trains AI to favor you and possibly even recommend you as more consumers are using AI Search to find mortgage professionals and real estate professionals in your local market. Oh, and there's one other thing you'll discover. You'll hear the story about how one loan officer actually did land a deal just because ChatGPT recommended him by name. So it's a great episode. Without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Katie Shive, welcome to the show.
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B
Hey. Hey. Thanks for having me.
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A
Thanks for being here. Long time coming for this. I was thinking about you and I and our kind of history and I'm so appreciative and grateful for you and the edification you've provided for me over the years and the connection to people. And that's why I'm glad to bring you to the main stage, if you will. To more people need to know about Katie Shive and what she does. I'm going to give you the AI version. Nope, my turn. Still, I'm going to give you the AI version, seeing as we're going to talk about AI in a minute. Who is Katie Shive? She's a brand strategist, marketing expert who helps mortgage professionals and other business owners build strong personal brands and use AI to create content that sounds like them.
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B
Agree 100% yes on that part. Yep.
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A
Would you like to add anything nerve.
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B
Wracking when you are, you know, when you talk a lot about AI and Then it's like you're put in the hot seat. You're like, I hope, I hope. Let's see.
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A
Well, and this is, it's a great opener because we're going to talk about training AI and I asked the question, right, whose case? And then it went on to say, you teach them how to use AI tools without sounding robotic, how to build their voice and visibility. You're a branding coach, AI marketing guide. And your goals? To help people sound like themselves and attract clients online.
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B
Yeah, that's cool. Good job. Yes. I have all my late night hours of obsessively figuring this out. Glad to know it's working.
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A
That's fantastic. Okay, so is there anything you would want to fine tune on that? Do you think it's good to go out of the box?
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B
I would say it's good to go out of the box. I mean that's really what I have been working on, refining that messaging and that's. Yeah, I love anything that's related to personal branding and AI. I love the mortgage space, I do a lot of coaching, all of those things. So it says it more eloquently than I just word jumble. I don't have it all memorized and perfectly polished which is, goes back to the authentic part of it. But yeah, I would say it very accurately describes what I do.
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A
Well, seeing as we entered there with my use case, which is I use ChatGPT to search and Gemini and I just put in one question. Who is Katie Shive? I didn't give it any other context besides that. So let's briefly then tease out this idea of why did chatgpt know who you were and what you were all about?
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B
Yeah, well, I mean there's a, a lot of talk about AI visibility. Right. I mean we could go, we could get real nerdy really fast on SEO and GEO and AEO and you know, it's the Alphabet soup. Eieio. I have a six year old and a three year old, so we are singing those songs. But you know, when we talk about, you know, people just say, oh, I gotta create content. You know, go. The more content you create, the more findable you'll be there. There is probably truth to some of that. Yes. But then you want to also optimize your content. Just like, you know when people spend thousands of dollars and hire agencies to optimize their SEO and keywords and things like that. Now we're, you know, I say this in true, in trueness is we're not just creating content for humans, we're now having to create content for robots. So when we create our content, you really have like two audiences. So you, you need to make sure that your hooks are good and that you're keeping people's attention. Right. But AI could care less about their AI doesn't have an attention span. So now it's looking at your AI visibility of do you have a core entity statement? So what you read is my describer of who I am. I've worked on the back end to develop my core entity statement which if you don't know what that is, it's. Do you know what a core entity statement is?
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A
No, I wanted you to expand on that and then tell us does that live somewhere?
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B
Yeah. So quantity statement is. It's really like that. It's just another word. It's like, it's like your one sentence bio. Right. So it's like Katie Shive is a Montana based, you know, brand and AI visibility coach that helps loan officers, blah blah, blah, blah blah. Right. So you think about it of like, what's your name, what's your location, what's your experience, who's your audience? Right? So there's a couple components that make up to that. Now you can get really creative because you don't have to say it in the exact same formation across all of your different, you know, bios. But if you're Jeff, you know, Jeff Zimfer on one and then maybe you're like Jeffrey Zimfer on another and you're a mortgage advisor here and you're a lender here and you're a certified mortgage planner here. So you, as much as you can, you want to have a core statement so that AI, the LLMs when they're calling, they can easily recognize and build that out to your, your, your entity cluster which is, makes up all things you.
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A
So how do we build that online? Where does that live in our social profiles or where.
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B
Yeah, so anywhere that you have control over your bios. So I mean the easy high hits are your LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, if you're on TikTok, your company website, if you have your own personal website, things like your Zillow profile or your experience.com profile, your Google Business profile. So any online profile that could be findable is, you know that you have a login and you have the ability to control. You want to update that. So that's, that's one piece and then there's other mechanics like you know, as you're writing content. So a really great way to start training LLMs is to be having long form content. I love that long form content is coming back because it's not just that people are suddenly wanting to read long form content, but it's a way to provide, you know, information to LLMs, to know who you are and you're training them essentially. So if you have a LinkedIn newsletter or you're writing LinkedIn posts or maybe that's core or substack, there's a couple of mediums you could use. But at the end of that, like your profiles are obviously gonna be optimized. But then another thing that you can do is at the bottom of each article, you could have. I believe in pr, they call us a boilerplate. It's basically like that little bio paragraph at the bottom of your article. That's, you know, Jeff Semper is blah, blah, blah. And that's, it's kind of your three.
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A
Little bio section there. Okay. So the first place, we need to train the AI to what to call the, what did you call it again?
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B
Or entity statement. So I mean that's, that's kind of a technical term or at least how I've been learning it. But think about it. It's just, it's your one liner, it's the who are you, what do you do, who do you serve, where do you live? We are, most everybody that's listening to this already has that in some capacity. If you look at your company website or whatever. Now there's, there's obviously ways that you can enhance that and probably make it really succinct and very clear. But yeah, so you want to have your, your bio, there's consistency and cohesion in your bio across all of your different platforms.
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A
So it should say essentially the same thing across whatever profiles you have online.
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B
Yeah, I mean, so here's an example. Like when I go into LinkedIn, for example, that, that exact sentence isn't in my, about me in my bio. How I get around that is like, well, my name is in my bio. It's very clear at the top of my header. You know, Katie Shive, it's not Caitlin, it's not Kate, it's Katie Shive. Everywhere is consistent is my name everywhere consistent is my headshot. But then in the longer form I make sure to include, I'm in Kalis, Belmont, Montana and I help, you know, loan officers and mortgage professionals. So I take it's, it's like bringing in some keywords as well. So I want to clarify, SEO is not dead, but it's, it's kind of.
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A
Pairing the deal Well, I, speaking of SEO, I know you know Neil Patel, right? Yes. So I saw Neil Patel's video the other day. You may have seen him use this phrase, SEO, which is Search Everywhere Optimization.
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B
Yes. It's like that is actually, that is really a brilliant descriptor because it's, I.
- [12:28]
A
Think sometimes Leave it to Neil, you.
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B
Leave it to Neil. Right. And sometimes you're like, man, the most simplest statement, why does it feel like the most brilliant? Because we can over jargon. We have so much jargon in our own industry too. I think sometimes it's like you can't keep up with acronyms in terms. But yeah, it's Search everywhere and geo. I don't have a good G use for that. But yeah, it's, it's basically LLMs, large language models are crawling the Internet and everywhere that they can pull, you want it optimized.
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A
And it also goes to the point of that term of Search Everywhere optimization that that's what consumers are doing today. Case in point, they're searching AI like we opened up with. But they're also searching, you know, the social platforms as well. Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, you know, everything's, everything's becoming kind of search driven at various levels.
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B
Yeah, maybe I'm. We're going to call it Go Everywhere Optimization for Geo trademark.
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A
That thing. Well, so it reminds me this whole thing of like a positioning statement, a core entity statement. You know, it gets back to like, you know, optimizing. You mentioned LinkedIn. I'm looking at your LinkedIn. So for those who've are aware with this is like, you know, one of the kind of, the best practices is it's like, you know who, you kind of said this, who are you? What do you do, what problem do you solve something in that effect. So your LinkedIn says, Brandon AI strategist helping mortgage pros talk like real humans, not templates. Well, that's very clear on who you are, what you do, who you help and the problem that you solve. So if anything, if you're listening to this and thinking about how do you optimize your profile, your bio, you know, first of all, use AI to help.
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B
You a hundred percent.
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A
What would you coach them on that alone?
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B
Yeah, I literally, I literally had a loan officer reach out to me this morning and exactly this conversation. So now I'm excited because I'm going to just send him the link to this podcast when it's done and be like, here, here's the whole thing. Um, but his question literally was I just, I just put My name in who is so and so and what does he do? And he goes, I was really shocked by the results, or in his case, the lack thereof, despite how many reviews he has. And so he said, you know, do you have any recommendations for that? And that's literally what this conversation is about, right? Like, AI is a moving target. It's a wild west. I get leery anytime somebody says they're an AI expert. Like, unless you're actually working at, you know, OpenAI or Cloud or Gemini, like, it's hard to just say you're a true expert. I think it's really early, at least, but there's so much to learn. And so, yeah, that was the exact advice to him. I said, okay, well, one where you can optimize your profiles, that will help. And like, we're talking about, why would you not use AI to help with all of this? So one of my suggestions, if you're listening to this, I would say, you know, pull up your AI of choice, maybe go even between the two, like two to kind of compare the outputs. So pull up, you know, Gemini and. And or chat GPT. Personally, I'm loving Claude right now for, for B2C messaging and tone. Claude has been really like, rocking my socks off. But go into one of those, you know, platforms and ask like, you know, I need help creating a geo optimized, you know, bio. Right? Start there. And again, you know, you can. My whole thing is like, I want to be able to have content that sounds human and personalized without having it just sound like, you know, I want to be able to be creating content for both humans and robots, not just being so robotic that humans are like, well, that was chatgpt and like, you have no ounce of care. Like, you can. You can write things creatively that still hit those. Those points that you're needing to hit.
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A
Okay, that's a nice segue into. We're going to put links to all your resources in the show notes, by the way, your AI after hours podcast and newsletter, some other resources you have. But I'm going to pull this one from one of your emails that I received relevant to your newsletter, which is, are you using AI like a vending machine? What do you mean by that? What do you want to kind of help people be aware of?
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B
I think by default, especially as people are just getting into using AI. You know, it's supposed to make our lives easier. We all claim that you're going to have leverage and efficiency. And what I hear in frustration a lot is that it's they're spending more time refining the prompts than if they had just written it themselves. And so, you know, I would tell people listening, first of all, you know, you have to, excuse me, you have to play around and use it to kind of learn how it works. But in the context of a vending machine, a lot of times, you know, people will go in and say, you know, they're wanting to write a post. Give me three reasons why you should buy a home in, in Denver, Colorado today. Well, it's going to give you an output. Yes, but anybody else in Denver that's wanting to create content, they might be using that same prompt or very similar because it's a question, right? We, we want to create content that is answering questions that real, our real audience might have. So without perfecting that, they're using it like a vending machine. It's like put two quarters in, which is your, your prompt, and then you take whatever it spits out without actually putting, you know, we call it gain of information. So it's like you can take the information that I would give you, but then what is the information that you're going to be like? What's your personal angle on that? Right. So what's your unique story? So I might give you a frame. I always like to kind of treat my outputs as like 80% there, but I also am refining my prompts. Okay, so here's my personal story or here's my client's story and I'll put my own two cents in. So it's not just the exact copy paste replica like it. It really is more a collaboration of. It synthesizes my organization and my ideas. But then I put the final touches before posting anything.
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A
Let's get practical and let's go deeper on this thread we're talking about here, which is, you know, essentially who doesn't want to get discovered by search, right. As consumers continue to lean into AI a little bit more for search or other platforms as well. But I want to, I want to get like really specific for people, let's say a lot officers listening and they, they've heard of this whole concept of, you know, geo AI related search and we need to now, as you said earlier, we're creating content not just for people, but for robots, AI platforms. You know, the thing I think, I don't know if you said this or I did from that slide deck we were working on, which is AI recommends versus ranks. Right. Tends to recommend. And so what would be some core principles? How do we get started on getting Recommended by AI.
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B
Yeah, I can give you some high level things of which we can talk about and then I'll also kind of have a caveat is it's, it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. And I'll, I'll get to my example in just a second. So high level LLMs love authority. Like they're really, when they're recommending they, they're going off of just straight context. Obviously they've removed all emotion, all feelings and you know that what that make you a human. So it's just, it's straight context. So they're looking at authority. If you ask, you know, who is the best loan advisor in, you know, Seattle, Washington, it's going to pull from actual facts, not just theory. So you know, your, your reviews are huge. So anytime you guys can push reviews, that's really important. I know as loan officers and just any, any person that collects reviews, we all say we need to be doing it. I would say now more than ever, you can't afford to not be asking for the reviews. Google is really a great source. LLMs do also pull in, you know, third party aggregators like your experience.com and what have you. But having your reviews are great because those reviews are third party verif that somebody has, you know, their own unique account and they gave that review. It's different than if I just copy and pasted a review and posted it on my website because LLMs can't verify that that actually was from a, a real person. I could have made it up for all it knows and I'm sure some people do. So pushing your reviews, your clients to leave reviews is really great. Um, and then you know, creating content too. So as your, you know, I always tell people, my loan officers, I'm like keep a list of the questions that you get asked. I think sometimes as loan officers we get stuck in our head like I don't want to write about that, everybody's talked about that or it's really boring. Well, that, that is probably true. Everybody in your circle has, but your clients most likely haven't and the people that are searching for you that maybe you've never talked to before haven't. So think about the types of questions that your real clients are asking you. I always say keep a notes tab on your phone. Everybody has a notes tab on their phone. And if you get a question, write that down and then find ways to turn that into content. That specific question, how did you specifically help that client navigate that scenario or that topic? Now you don't just have, you know, that generic answer, but you also have your own personal response, which is, you know, that's generative. It's, it's unique. So that's a, that's a couple things. And yeah, just being, being consistent, creating content, making sure that you're training the LLMs. The caveat story that I was going to say is there was one loan officer that I was doing a webinar for on Geo. So I was like, well, this will be really fun. I did. I pulled a U, Jeff, and I Googled or I searched her in AI ahead of time. And I was really stunned because this loan officer is very well known and has a lot of Google reviews. So I was like, there's no way she won't be number one. She was not number one. I was like, okay, what is going on here? And the person that outranked her had like 20% the amount of reviews that she had. This loan officer had like 165. And the loan officer that was number one had like 19. So it was like a huge discrepancy in terms of credibility. And so that's when I, you know, drill down. And so if you're, if you're asking any of the AI platforms who is so and so and you know, you don't pop up as number one, I would encourage you to then reverse engineer and ask, okay, why did you propose this? Why did you recommend this person, you know, and, and try to get some of that information. And that's exactly what I did with this one client. And it was like, well, this person has really good reviews. So I said, okay, who are. Give me five others in this geographical zip code. And then the next person was that loan officer that I was trying to search for. So then I compared and I said, okay, this loan officer has 165 Google reviews, and this, the loan officer you recommended has 19. So why did you recommend her first if it's truly on reviews? And it came back and said, oh, it was the speed of which it was returned. And I was like, okay, I don't totally understand that. Like, you know, I don't know. So that's why I say that as a caveat because, like, there's lots of, like, here's best practices, but LLMs are still evolving all the time, very rapidly. So as much as we can, like, try to systematize, I'm going to have the best reviews and I'm going to have the best optimized profile and this and that, there's still opportunity like chances that you might not be 100 recommended every time. And some of that's just going to be out of your control.
- [24:42]
A
Yes. Yeah, it does change. It'll change. I've done it as well. One day versus the next. Looking up realtors for example. But it's interesting to your point about when you go deeper, it did pull up that other loan officer who did have more reviews. Hey, are you tired of cold calling realtors and feeling like you're getting nowhere? With my agent classes, you don't have to chase agents anymore. We hand you a done for you system of ready to teach presentations, plug and play marketing and even 200 producing agents to invite. So you can double your agent referrals in 90 days or less. Plus you'll get weekly coaching and a community of loan officers sharing exactly what's working right now. Here's a quick win from one of our members.
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C
I joined it because I was tired of doing business the way that regular loan officers have been doing it in my market, which is just making the core calls every Monday and Friday checking in with real estate agents. I had done that for years and it seemed like everybody was doing that. I needed something different and I wanted to find a way that I could work with the agents that I want to work with. I wanted to find a way that I could have a captive audience every month, every couple of weeks where I could find agents that were like minded and that wanted to work with me as well. So it's probably brought in, I'm just guessing here, but it's probably brought on in the three years I've been back with the program. It's probably brought on, I'd probably say about $40 million in volume since then.
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B
Right.
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C
And it's led to some massive relationships and I wouldn't be able to do those things without this program. The value of these Friday calls are so incredibly valuable for all of us. I get upset if I miss it on a Friday. The cost of this program is what is worth it. Just because of these Friday calls that we're on where we help coach each other. We're just here to help each other add value to our Realtor partners.
- [26:21]
A
Are you ready to stop chasing and start attracting agent referrals on demand? Book a call at MortgageMarketing Pro or hit the link in the show notes. Now back to our show. By the way, if you're listening right now, that's an exercise for you to do to to again I always say like it's think of AI as like your assistant, your Digital assistant. Ask questions. You just heard Katie talk about the conversation she's having. Get curious, go deeper. I remember I was doing some research on this realtor I heard about from Tom Ferry who if I pull up her testimonial here real quick, she got four buyer clients from ChatGPT recommending her. Um, and then she also had a listing where ChatGPT recommended her as an agent familiar with VA loan assumptions. That is very niche, very specific, very niche. So what's the takeaway there, you think?
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B
Um, my guess is she. And I'm going out on a limb with very limited information. Cause I'm not even sure who you're referring to. But if I were to make some speculations, I would imagine that she's in some capacity had a conversation or breadcrumb. So somewhere online using that. So when somebody goes in searches. Because I've had two clients now that have directly been referred by ChatGPT as well, with no other entry point.
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A
These are loan officers.
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B
So the one loan officer. So. And I'll kind of get into the examples of them as well. But they. Yeah, so they were referred on chat GPT. But my guess is there was some sort of, you know, specificity. Maybe she had a reel or maybe she had a video or a LinkedIn post or something with the VA assumable loans. That is very specific. And unless your whole website, everything you do is only on this, it's probably point from somewhere. One time I have seen the two clients that I was talking about just, just recently. They both work for the same company and their digi. Their company's digital footprint is very optimized. So I suspect that when they, you know, they were asking for this exact example was down payment assistance. The first one was a down payment assistance program and it gave a list of loan officers. My guess is that it was saying, you know, hey, you're in this city or this. This area. And it recommended. Because here's the thing, AI or LLMs, they want to refer. Refer you the best possible answer. The the truest and the best possible answer. So if you go in and say who is the best loan officer? It's going to say like. And I did that. That's what I started with that the review. The loan officer I was just telling you about, with all the reviews, I. Cause I wanted to do this as an example. So I was like, who is the best loan officer? And it came back and was like, well, that's a big question because there's over three, you know, however many thousands of loan Officers there are in the country, are you like, we need to drill down more? So that's when I said, you know, who is the best loan officer in this zip code, Right. So it's going to try to give you the best match for your question. So it's not going to give you, you know, a down payment assistance program for New York when you're living in Nevada. Right. So it's probably, I'm, I'm guessing it's probably knowing like, hey, your phone is in this area and you're asking and you know, or maybe she, she gave questions. I did ask for screenshots and she did. The client did give screenshots of like her exact prompting. And so the second, this is a cool story. It's the second client I was referring to. He's also with the same company, same geographical area. And a client had a high, a higher rate from a competitor and they were looking for a lower rate. So I don't know the exact question that they typed in, but it was something like, you know, how can I look at getting a lower interest rate? And this client's bank was recommended and his name was at the top of the one. But he didn't just, the client didn't just take that recommendation on AI at face value. The cool part is that client went over to LinkedIn, which actually shocked me, but went to LinkedIn to look up this loan officer to see if this loan officer had like recent and frequent activity on LinkedIn. A cool part is I had been coaching this loan officer for six months. Hey, you need to be on LinkedIn, you need to be posting, you know, all of these things. And, and the client had seen that this loan officer was posting about market updates and different things, called the client or this loan officer and he closed the loan. He saved the deal and closed the loan. So in this specific instance, he has a hundred percent direct. Like this lead came from ChatGPT and I closed the loan. I was like, that's really cool and not common.
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A
So is the answer today that we do need to be at some level.
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B
Everywhere to go everywhere, go everywhere.
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A
Because you know how people for years, as myself as well would say like, you can't be good across all platforms, right? You need to pick 1 to 2 or ish, right? So you can be really good. But now with AI, you know, looking at all the places, like I said earlier, search everywhere optimization, that's in the real world, right?
- [31:36]
B
It's so I have so much empathy. I don't know if empathy is the right Word. But I have so much for loan officers because, you know, they, they really have the hard job of having to do sales and having to make it rain and foster relationships and save the deal and manage their teams and grow their business and be digital influencers that are showing up everywhere. And it's a lot. I, I am not one to suggest that you need to create content on every single platform. Like, I think you do need to be a lot of places and you need to be in front of as many people as you can, but to the point where it's not going to detract you from actually doing business too. Right? Like, you can't just be a TikTok influencer and on Instagram, like you still need to be originating and prospecting and nurturing your database and calling your, your realtors and doing classes and things like that. So, I mean, going back to what, what you're brilliant at with helping with teaching agent classes, that's a great thing. So if you're going to teach an agent class as an example, then maybe you go post something on an eventbrite that can, you know, be crawlable or you're going to go put it as, you know, a LinkedIn event or maybe a Facebook event. So anywhere that you can promote and bring attention to what you're already doing in your business routine is just extra juice for the squeeze. So if you're going to be teaching classes, go throw it up on Eventbrite. If you're already having the messaging that you're going to put in an email. So anywhere that's like private, like an email or in a private community or behind a paywall, AI obviously can't access. But if you're going to go send that email out, would it be worth the opportunity for the five extra minutes or whatever it takes to go put that into a LinkedIn, you know, event or an eventbrite where it can crawl it. So it's those little things of like, how can you make slight tweaks to incorporate AI visibility into the process that you're already doing in addition to what you're doing on social media.
- [33:39]
A
Wow.
- [33:40]
B
Okay, so that's right, what I was saying. I mean, another thing, I know you and I have talked about this offline, but I was reading a recent article on Ahrefs and we could put the link in the show notes as well, but it has grabbed the top 100 US sourced sites by ChatGPT, so it scrubbed like 9.6 million ChatGPT queries and it extrapolated the top 100 US based websites. And from that, you know, Reddit is number one. So Reddit is a great, a great place. But when you, when you pull out the targets and the Amazons and the People magazines, which we're never going to have an audience with or control over, um, LinkedIn was number 74. And so that's one of the things that really caught my attention to largely focus my strategy, at least right now for content on LinkedIn because there's a lot of visibility and LLMs look at LinkedIn because you're like your, your profile is already vetted and verified. So I used to write all of my blog posts and put them on my own website, which I still do, but actually I'm pushing a lot of my content strategy first over to LinkedIn because there's more credibility as a hosting it on LinkedIn than my own website because my own website's, you know, smaller and I just developed it.
- [35:04]
A
Interesting, interesting.
- [35:06]
B
For any loan officers that are like, well, I don't have a big fancy website and I'm not the big mega producer with this huge personal brand footprint everywhere. I love what is happening with AI because you don't have to. You can have a strategy where you're showing up consistently, you know, in YouTube videos, or if you don't like doing video, then consider a newsletter on LinkedIn or consider an article where again you can take what are those questions that your clients are most likely asking. And you can start with AI to help, you know, give me a list of, you know, the top 20 questions that my ex demographic might be asking and then you can start having conversations and creating content around that as well.
- [35:52]
A
Yeah, speaking of questions, by the way, touching back on Reddit here for a second, you and I both as well, a lot of late night hours doing this research and all that. So you know this very well. But this is for the listener the way one of the ways to leverage Reddit easily is to get, to get content. The questions to understand what real buyers and sellers are worried about. So one of the things you can do today is go to Google and you can go to Google and type in moving to your city, Reddit or whatever, first time home buyer Reddit, there's all these subreddits, right? And so you can start on Google because that will bring up the Reddit, the subreddit searches and then you'll jump into those communities that are on Reddit that you'll get this list of because everybody's like, well how do I create content? This is one way to easily ask. You can use answer the public and all that. But this is actually, of course, real people, real time, fresh. And that might be a good place to start as well. What do you think?
- [36:46]
B
I love that I haven't done that specific query, but I just typed it in as you are talking and so I'm definitely going to get anything. You mean all of my.
- [36:58]
A
Well, you're in Montana, so who's moving there?
- [37:01]
B
I'm in rural Montana, so yes, who is moving there? We have more elk and wildlife than we have people. We like to keep it that way though, right?
- [37:12]
A
Yes, please don't move here.
- [37:13]
B
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great, that is a great place to start. I did create a custom GPT and I can give you the, the link for that as well. It's like a Reddit scrubber. It's really simple.
- [37:26]
A
Oh really?
- [37:28]
B
Yeah. But it's a GPT that helps. Yeah. With, with some Reddit stuff. But I think understanding the voice of your customer. Right. So go. You can go into Reddit, into those sub communities again. One of the things that I do is I'll go into Reddit and then I'll just type in like here is an example. When the 50 year loan conversation went viral in our world a couple weeks ago, everybody, everybody was talking about it, right? And so I was like, okay, well I know what the loan officers and mortgage executives are saying, but I want to know, like, what is it? What are the clients and the home buyers really actually thinking about this? So I went over to Reddit and there's a couple core subreddits like mortgage and real estate and a couple. So I went into the mortgage one and then there's subreddits for, you know, first time homebuyers and what have you. And so I just put it in the search word like, you know, 50 year mortgage. And it brings up a boatload of conversations. So I clicked on one that had, I don't know, over 6,000 comments because it was trending. So then I took that URL for that specific Reddit thread and then I threw that into my AI GPT and I said, please scrub this thread now. I don't think it's scrubbed all 6,000, but I just said, can you pull out, you know, the top five comments? One's, you know, one's emotional, one's supportive, one's a client, you know, against it. And so I use that to help me filter down some real true voice of, the voice of your customer sentiment.
- [38:59]
A
And so did you Find something useful.
- [39:02]
B
I mean, other than it just as I was writing my response, or I think I was writing a LinkedIn post about it, I was able to pull in like direct quotes, you know, so like, hey, this person is, you know, in this market. And again, it's not like I know them. So I was pulling direct, you know, feedback of, hey, this person says it's a really good idea and here's why. Or this person says it's terrible and here's why. So again, I think, yeah, you can look at your long four or go over to Google. Perplexity is another tool that I really like and there's a free version that you can start with and you can go do some searches there as well. But yeah, your example of whatever the long form tail question is, think of the question and then just type Reddit after it. And that's a really simple place to start.
- [39:49]
A
Let's kind of give them one last thing to chew on in terms of, you know, we've talked about getting discovered, recommended in AI search, the type of content, where to go to look to learn consumer sentiment and get ideas. How about this framework? You have a framework for turning one piece of core content into multiple pieces. Do you want to share that?
- [40:09]
B
Yeah. Yeah. You know, everything that I'm building and everything that I share and I do really comes out of, like, me learning it also. So a lot of what I build is like, starts with my pain point and then I'm like, well, if I have this pain point, other people probably have this pain point. So this was a couple months ago. I was out for a walk and I was just like feeling so overwhelmed, which I'm sure most of our listeners have felt at times. Like, what do I create for content? And this is just like a. It's a machine. And so I, I'm a huge fan of voice, voice talking with my AI tools. So I was out for a walk and I just activated my, my, I think it was chat GPT at the time, my voice chat. And I was just talking to it, like, here's where I'm feeling stuck in my head or stuck in my business and blah, blah. So work through this, you know, kind of chat idea in my head. And then I said, hey, I bet if I'm struggling with this, other people probably have similar frustrations. Can you help me craft a podcast topic around this? Because I do an AI podcast under 10 minutes. And so I was fleshing out that idea and then I said, okay, can you write the script at conversational page a pace under 10, you know, 10 minutes or less. So it got there and then I said, okay, well, can you now repurpose that and write the show notes in the show title for me? Great. So then it, it did that, and then I said, okay, well, can you turn this podcast idea into an email that I can send to my database? I don't want to tell them what the whole podcast is about, but I want to have a strong hook and a strong call to action to go listen to the podcast. So then again, I'm doing this all while I'm walking because it's, it's re. It's reading back to me what it's saying. So then we worked through the email and then I said, can you help me create? I think I did a Instagram reel script for it as well. So in a 30 minute walk, by the time I had gotten back to my house and I opened ChatGPT on my desktop, I had worked through the idea for a podcast episode with show notes, a title, a framework for my email, and a social media post. And again, I still had to go assemble all of the content. Like, I still had to record my podcast and I still had to host it in and, you know, all of the things, but the heavy lifting for the ideas I was able to do while I was out walking. And so you. How I like to repurpose content is you start with an idea, right? You start with what's your core idea? Maybe that's a client objection that you had. Maybe it's a deal you lost. Maybe it's a celebration for that. That client that finally went through credit repair and they just got, you know, the keys to their house. So whatever your idea is, I like to work through that with my AI tools and I usually start with a long form piece of content. So whether that's a blog post or a LinkedIn article. So I write that as kind of my foundational piece. And then I will continue in that same chat thread because all of the knowledge is in that chat. And then I'll say, can you repurpose this into an email, make it more story driven. So each piece of content, I'm completely changing because how you deliver the content and on what platform is going to vary in how it's received. But the core history of the conversation and really developing the idea is in that same chat. And then I just ask it to refine and repurpose until I get it in the output that sounds like me. And something I would actually say, and.
- [43:50]
A
That'S you having a Conversation with the voice assistant, the actual live interaction versus the dictation.
- [43:57]
B
I do both. It depends on kind of my day sometimes, you know, it's hard for me. Like I try to get my stuff out on Saturday night and most nine out of 10 times, it's always I put my kids down, it's 10 o' clock at night and I was like, crap, I got to get my content out. So what I've been pushing myself to do is earlier in the week start thinking through what's my big content idea for the week and what do I want to share. So I'll open a new chat history in my AI platform and maybe I'll start audio voice texting. If I'm driving, you know, on Bluetooth or sometimes if I'm at my desk, I'll type it. I've just found that we brain, we word vomit. So much better verbally than if we're typing.
- [44:40]
A
Right.
- [44:40]
B
So that's, that's just what works for me. Am I not for other people? But I'll start kind of formulating my idea earlier in the week and I'll kind of pop back into that chat if I have something else to add to it so that when I go to actually create the full content package, I've already kind of primed the chat history so I'm not starting at ground zero.
- [45:02]
A
Yeah, I love that. That's a really productive use of multitasking with time. You know, they say you can't multitask, but it sounds to me like that's a pretty good.
- [45:11]
B
Here's, here's the. I kind of shocked myself last night and I'm loving Claude for different things too. I will say the Claude voice texting is a little more clunky. It's not as good like it seems to pick up interruptions, like audio interruptions easier. But anyways, it's performing better for creative copy. So anyways, last night I was interviewing myself because I was like trying to get through some messaging and I was like, I am my ideal avatar. So here's my frustration. Now help me put on this avatar. Anyways, I'm not joking you, Jeff. I spent two hours voice texting my AI because my kids were gone last night and I got two loads of laundry done, I took a bath and I made my bed all while having a two hour conversation with my AI. And I literally worked through so much stuff and I was like, I got done and I crawled into bed. I was like, not only did I just do business stuff, but I like got two loads of laundry done, I took a bath. I like all of these things. And it was like, great because it was like hyper productive and I was like, I felt like I was winning last night.
- [46:17]
A
So, people listening, what is your one big takeaway? Think about this. What's the one or two ideas? I think that framework right there is a lot for people to just. The lights go on. I know it does for me because think about it like, you know, anywhere you're going somewhere now, you're in your car, driving, walking, whatever it is, doing the thing. Why not start to get in the habit and the cycle of exercising those muscles, right?
- [46:40]
B
Well, and it's exactly what you just said. It's a habit. I think, you know, I always, I always try to look at my whole day, my whole life, like everything is content. Now, of course I'm not gonna document everything. One, that's wildly boring. But two, it's, it's time consuming and it's like not engaging, but everything. So if you think about every client, email, every conversation, whether you're talking to a realtor, you're talking to a business partner, you, even if you're having a conversation with your kids or your partner or whoever, there's ways that you could, like, how can I share this with my audience? Like, what is an idea here? What is something? And for me, like, probably everybody listening, we're all busy. Whether you have kids or not, like, whatever, life is busy. So I try to optimize my pockets of time. So like every day I drive to pick up my daughter from school. So it's like I've got 15 minutes. Instead of just being on the in the car listening to music, I'll activate my voice, text, and with my AI, and I'm like, here's a client objection. I just had help me write a content piece about this or whatever. So rather than try, I guess my big takeaway is like, rather than trying to start really big and going all in, what's one habit that you can develop with AI today? Right? So like, maybe that's voice activation. Maybe that's just starting to learn. Maybe you have no context for this and this all feels overwhelming. Great. Who are some voices that are ahead of you in this journey? Right. That's the reason I started the AI After Hours podcast. It's one episode a week. It's 10 minutes or less. Focusing on one habit, one idea. Try to like simplify that. So start somewhere and then like build habits around that. And just using your AI practice, try to break it. Search yourself. I mean, Wherever you're wanting to focus, you won't tackle AI and all of it, there's. There's no way. So you have to start somewhere where you have the most critical need in your business or life. And then, you know, if there's somebody ahead of you, go contact them, reach out to them, follow them, whatever, but start, just start.
- [48:52]
A
I think that's great advice. It's a new skill that we need to learn and, yeah, a way to integrate it into your daily life. Okay, so we have shared a ton. This has been incredibly valuable. You just mentioned your podcast, the AI After Hours. We're going to link that in the show notes as well as we'll put a link in there for the Brand builder solution consulting. Tell us real briefly about that. What is that?
- [49:15]
B
Yeah, so that's like, you know, we talk about creating. I. I like the term AI slop. Right. If you go in and say three reasons why I should move to Denver, you're going to get the output that's going to sound like, oh, Chat GPT wrote that. So what I do through the Brand builder exercise is I work with loan officers, I do an interview with you, I ask you a ton of questions about your business, and then I build out a brand book that is, it's. I call it your brand brain. It essentially takes together what is your origin story and who are your client profiles and everything that we can learn about your brand. Put that to words and frameworks. And then now you have this really awesome document that you can load into any AI platform so it knows who you are. You're feeding it like proactively the information. I've been doing this for almost a year now, but it re like solidified for me is about a month ago, my Chat GPT account, I was merging it and I lost all of my history. And so literally in about three seconds, everything in the last two and a half years, the memory that it knew about me was wiped. And so all of a sudden I was like, oh, I have to basically start from scratch. The cool part is I was able to take my brand book that I already had, and now I was able to re upload it to ChatGPT, update my custom assistance, and I was back in business by the end of the week, you know, rough or take, because I was now feeding it information about me versus relying on its memory that I had fed over time. And that's what my brand Builder book is.
- [50:55]
A
All right, and we're going to link that in the show notes as well. The brand builder book that's an excellent exercise to go through. I can attest to that as well. A lot of self discovery. All right, so Katie, this has been awesome. Long time coming. A lot of content here. Everybody listening right now, I know, is like chomping at the bit. They probably learned more in this one session than anything else else they've been exposed to thus far for AI. So please, if you're listening, reach out. By the way, do you have an Instagram LinkedIn? We'll put a LinkedIn.
- [51:23]
B
Yeah, I am on Instagram. That's more on my like my running and my food and my kids. But LinkedIn is where I love to hang out. So come follow me on LinkedIn. DMs always open to conversations.
- [51:34]
A
That's what I was going to say. So if you're listening to this, look, check the show notes link for her LinkedIn and then DM her and let her know the one big takeaway that you got from today's episode. Katie Scheib, thank you so much for being here.
- [51:46]
B
Cool. Thanks for having me, Jeff.
- [51:48]
A
All right, listeners, you know what to do. Appreciate you. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Okay, that's it for today's episode. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to remind you about my agent classes. Your proven system to double your agent referrals in just 90 days. Imagine never having to cold call again. Instead building real lasting relationships with top producing agents who want to send you business with done for you presentations, marketing automation, weekly coaching. It's all designed to make growing your business easier and fun. So if you're ready to take control of your agent referrals and grow your income, visit MortgageMarketing Pro or check the link in the show notes. And while you're there, don't forget to check out the success stories from other mortgage bros who've already seen incredible results. Thanks for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.