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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hello, my friend Jeff Zimfer, host of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast. Thank you for tuning in. I'm so thrilled to bring this conversation with you. Hey, what can the power of one connection be? What can the power of one engagement on social media be? Well, today you're going to actually hear exactly what that powerful connection can lead to and that is a podcast interview, a new relationship, a potential business opportunity, who knows? The question is, is are you connecting on the social medias? So today my special guest I connected with originally months ago over LinkedIn because the content he was putting out was really eye opening and impactful when it comes to being a more successful mortgage professional. I'm talking about Sam Abizarri and Sam is the founder and director of Level Up Sales Coaching with Umortgage. He's an experienced loan officer in the industry and he has a special skill, dare I say his special skill is helping loan officers get to 10 loans a month in 18 months. He has a project called the 410 project which is all about helping you, the loan officer grow from average of 4 loans a month to 10 plus loans a month. And if you don't think there's a specific strategy and system to get there, well, listen to today's episode because I think what you'll hear is proven methods, tactics, mindsets and strategies that Sam has witnessed coaching hundreds and hundreds of loan officers to go from right four to ten loans a month or more. And so get ready to take notes. Check the link in the show notes to connect with Sam on LinkedIn. You've got to follow him at least for his content that he posts on LinkedIn because every post Sam posts is a mini coaching session that that will help you level up your skillset and mindset as a mortgage professional. So definitely check out the link in the show notes, you'll be glad you did. And contact Sam, let him know your big takeaways from today's episode and if you've got any questions for him. Without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Sam, welcome to the show.
- [02:14]
B
It's good to be here. How are you, Jeff?
- [02:16]
A
You know, this is what's amazing about the world today is we can virtually connect on LinkedIn for months and then say hey, you know what, why don't we have a conversation? And then there's already this kind of built in rapport that we already have because we've been kind of communicating back and forth on LinkedIn.
- [02:31]
B
It's so true. I feel like I know you really well. Because I've been consuming your content nonstop and I'm a fan of yours. And then I realized that we actually haven't properly actually talked. And then this is the first time we get to see each other face to face. So that's the magic of social media for me.
- [02:47]
A
Magic of social. All right, so for people who are not familiar with you, Sam, what would you like to share with the listeners about you, what you do, whatever?
- [02:58]
B
So I'm Sam. I run the internal coaching program at uMortgage. Level Up Coaching has about 120 loan officers. It's just for people in loan in umortgage and I work with everyone from people that are brand new and just want to learn how to get loans to people that are already doing 20, 30 loans a month and they want to take it to the next level, maybe working less or doing a lot more loans. I work with everyone and it's what I work on with people is different. But my goal is for everyone to make a ton of money, have great work life balance and save a lot of money and make sure that their life is as high quality as quality possible through their professional life.
- [03:40]
A
There's, I imagine, a fair amount of loan officers listening right now who just heard that and are saying, tell me more. So I'm going to set you up for this because you and I talked a little bit before. Hitting record is a fair amount of your content. And by the way, it's really good. We'll link it up in the show notes to follow you on LinkedIn. And every post you have is like a mini coaching lesson. And there's always these little nuggets of wisdom too, which is you give us a lot to chew on, let's say that. But your specialty, correct me if I'm wrong, is to take loan officers who might be closing right now, two to four loans per month and grow them to 10 or more units per month. Is that accurate?
- [04:18]
B
That's exactly it. Two to four a month right now. And it's not always like consistently doing two to four. Sometimes they go to one, sometimes they go to seven. You know how this business business. But I take them to 10 by teaching them the skills they need to, to get to the 10:1. And this is about skills, not just giving strategies about helping them build the skills and then building a team around them so they can do 10 loans a month. Because at 10amonth, I think that's when the highest life quality happens in our industry. That's when you have a team supporting you. You do the most fun activities, you make the most money that you can, and you have great work, life balance and your family is really happy with you. Okay, 10 is the magic number for me.
- [04:57]
A
10 is the magic number. I like that. All right, well then what would you say? Just, let's just start at a high level here. What do you see as the. How would you articulate somebody listening? Okay, that's me. I want to. I'm at 2 to 4. I want to get. I'm that guy or gal wants to get to 10. Where do I need to start to do that?
- [05:18]
B
So if you're two to four, it depends where you are. Some people come in with really good sales skills, but really terrible organization and time management. So that then we would work on the building the systems, building in the time management and processes that will actually help you just leverage your sales skills so you can improve. Other people come in with actually terrible sales skills, but they have such a good actual product. Like they're so good at their craft, being a loan officer that once they get someone in, they keep getting referrals. So with those people, it's all about building the sales skills and just building the right network around them so more people refer them to them. And that's the, that's the foundational. Like where we start that, that gets you to about six loans a month. At six loans, we start to focus on team building, whatever that is. Sometimes for people it's processors, sometimes for people it's assistants. And then for some other people it's like front end assistance. Again, it really depends on the individual strength and weaknesses. And then with one help, you can comfortably get to 10 loans a month. And there it's just about leadership management systems on how you delegate, how you check quality of work and everything from there. And after 10 loans a month, most people just want to either stay there, but if they want to grow, it's a whole different skill set after that.
- [06:39]
A
Interesting. Different skill sets that are required for each stage.
- [06:45]
B
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think the hardest part of this business is going from zero to one. Like doing consistently doing one loan a month is a huge pain. That's the hardest part I have, at least for me, getting people to that. And the skill set for that is so much different than going from 2 to 4, then from 4 to 8 and 8 to 10. You know, it's all ranges. So different skills for different milestones.
- [07:13]
A
Okay, so let's back up then. I laughed because I think it's relatable to go from 0 to 1 is like the hardest thing, right? And that's so true, though, because you're depending on your situation. Most people, they. If you're, if you're trying to get to one loan, even two loans a month, you probably don't know a lot of people, right? That's your struggle. You're probably new in the business. So you have no reputation, little reach. You know, I thought I heard this phrase a while back that I love, which is everything you want is on the other side of your reach and your reputation. Love that. And so let's, let's. I want to briefly go through the phases. Somebody's starting out. They're looking to build their career. They're at about two loans a month. Like what, what should they be doing? What should their primary focus be throughout the week? Is it prospecting? What is it?
- [08:02]
B
I like to break up the day into three parts. The first part, it's only like 15 to 30 minutes, is learning. Learn wherever you're the weakest. Learn that. For some people, it's guidelines. For some people, it's skills. For some people, it's mindset. Doesn't matter. The first 30 minutes, just learn. The second part of the day is lead generation. For that, I like to do the theme days on top of some prospecting. Theme days are more like you already have your network and your system built, so you're just kind of servicing it. But if you don't have that, you really have to go prospect for new business. That's part of the. To just generate more leads. And then part three, I call it fulfillment and conversion. And that I like to do that either mostly in the afternoon. And that's. You got leads, just go convert them. Doesn't matter if it's from earlier today, it's from earlier in the week, or from two years ago. Just keep converting your lead and fulfill it. Do everything that you told people you would do. You told them you're going to send an email with numbers. That's what you got to do. Setting up your files, pre proving that's what you got to do. And then if you do that, that's when your day has ended. If you do those three things, you've had a successful day. And if you just consistently do those three things, you are no doubt going to grow to where you want to be.
- [09:24]
A
Well, it sounds like a fairly easy recipe to follow. What trips people up?
- [09:29]
B
I think I see, I see too many people get into that fulfillment side or into that learning side and fulfillment. They get bogged down by feeling good, by being Busy not being productive. I'll give you an example that I actually saw last week that I see all the time. One of my loan officer students said, I'm so busy, I have this loan that I've been working on. I'm like, oh, you're so busy working on one loan. How many loans do you have? It's like six. I'm like, how many leads did you get last week? 15. What happened to them? It's like, oh, I totally forgot. But I was busy with that one loan. That's not being productive. That's being busy. So people really get bogged down in that. Like, oh, I'm busy, I must be doing something right. Whereas you really want to just focus on being productive. And I might get a lot of hate for this, but I'll die on this hill. I don't think you should spend more than two hours on a file. Realistically, like, total, until, like, total total.
- [10:33]
A
Time or like a week or what?
- [10:35]
B
Like, per file. Like, I think from when you get a lead up until pretty much. Like, I used to say closing, but I realized that some files are just nightmares and takes longer. So I'll go say until like disclosure. Like, no more than two hours total time.
- [10:51]
A
Oh, yeah, there's a lot of people right now getting like, what? What are you talking about?
- [10:57]
B
So you gotta get efficient. That's why, like, guideline knowledge is gonna come in. Learning your systems is gonna be good. And like, applying to 80, 20, like, you don't have to find every dollar that the client can save the moment they're pre approved. Like, and I see a lot of loan officers doing it. Like, no, you do that once they're under contract. Understanding, like, what you got to do right now, what's the priority is really important. And I find my loan officers to struggle with that a lot. So just getting them out of that rhythm of don't be busy, be productive allows you to kind of apply that perfect formula of the three things you got to do every day.
- [11:34]
A
Yeah, that's such a great point. Because my recall is like, what attracts some people to this business is they are, you know, what tactician they love structuring deals, solving problems, you know, getting deep in the thick of figuring it out. And therefore all of a sudden a week has gone by and you're like, I figured it out. Right? 17 hours later.
- [12:01]
B
Exactly. Exactly. And you know, funny note. Can I. Can I share one other anecdotal story about that?
- [12:08]
A
This is open mic, baby.
- [12:11]
B
So something I tell to loan officers that are like, past that five loans a month is. You have to realize that if it's going to take you 10 hours to find out if a client is pre approved or not, maybe that's not the right client for you. So you got to ask you that.
- [12:26]
A
I was going to ask you, is there business that you should say no to?
- [12:30]
B
100%. I learned this from, I don't remember who taught me this, but one of like the top loan officers in the country taught me this and I live by it. Once you have a team, your team gets to say no to one deal or one client every month. It's going to make them so happy because it's just such. Because it clogs down your pipeline. It takes you away from everything. It impacts your life quality. So if your team can say no to one per month, you as a loan officer who's living with it, can definitely say no to one deal every month as well.
- [13:03]
A
Yeah, listen, I don't disagree with you. And yet, as you know, there's the loan officers who are just like, but they got their teeth in that one deal because that's all they have. So maybe is that also the nature of your early on in your, in your unit production per month? You know, you're at 4 or less or 2ish. And you're just like, that pit bull is not going to let go of that bone. Because you're like, no, man, I got to like, I need this. And there's a way to get this done. Is that acceptable in the early stages?
- [13:34]
B
100%. Yeah. I only say that to people that are consistently doing five and above.
- [13:38]
A
Okay.
- [13:39]
B
If you're, if you're, if you're barely getting two or three loans a month.
- [13:43]
A
Okay.
- [13:43]
B
Gotta get every deal in. Learn how to do it. It's a great learning. It's, you know, it's about learning at that point as well. So the harder files that you get, the more you learn, the more you build your reputation. It's totally fine.
- [13:55]
A
All right, well, let's talk about then, how do we get business? Because you made a post yesterday on LinkedIn. This is one example about meeting referral partners. But you could use any example you want of just how do I get leads, get prospects? So let's just again take that person who's not yet over five loans a month. What are the activities they should be doing to bring in business?
- [14:20]
B
Identify. So I, I made a post about this the other day, which kind of actually it started our conversations about me being on the podcast. I used to think like the Strategy is the most important thing. But now I think like understanding yourself and understanding your community is the best. I still think realtors are the easiest way to build your business.
- [14:40]
A
No, Sam, don't say it. You're gonna piss people off.
- [14:45]
B
It's the most efficient way to get the clients. They, the realtors know what your value is to them, they understand your importance. And consumers at the end of the day are going to realtors first. So like I'm heavy on realtors first. Then I think like direct to community I call it is like going to the community of consumers is good. And then I love financial advisors, I love attorneys, even property managers, I love them all. But like if you're a brand new loan officer, sorry, understand who you are first. And I'll give myself as an example. I play soccer, I'm an Iranian American. This is just like understanding yourself a little bit. I love numbers. I like business owners. I don't actually have a ton of patience or first time homebuyers who have like a million questions about buying homes, which isn't a bad thing. It's just me. I can't provide that emotional handholding that some first time home buyers have. So it would be illogical for me to go after that community of first time home buyers. But if you're someone who wants to house hack, you know, if you're in, in your 30s, like high 20s to low 30s, you might be a first time home buyer, but you're looking at a very logical sense and you like, you like soccer or you're like, you're an immigrant, we're going to get along great because that's who I am. And I understand your needs first. Which kind of leads to the second point, understanding your community because, and I use some extremes here, but buying a home means completely different things to different people. You know, if you're an investor, buying a home is just numbers. If you're a fifth generation or you're someone like the fifth person in the family who's tried to buy a home and it hasn't happened and no one in your family line has ever owned a home, that is as emotional as it gets. So it's like once you understand your community, you can relate to them at that point. Like if you understand your community so well, you're so in line with them, there's no sales skills required because you can just connect so well and speak the same language. So to answer your question, Jeff, like if you're doing less than five loans, like where should you start? Is first, understand yourself and what you like to understand the community that you'll be best able to serve. And then three, once you know that, go find that community and the way to do that. I think social media is fantastic because you can attract a lot of people but also reach out to a lot of people. I'm a big fan of LinkedIn because you can literally find the exact type of people that you like and then go to communities like, again, like I'm an Iranian American, I can go to Iranian Iranian American center in Chicago and I'll meet hundreds of people just like myself. Sure. I can go play soccer and I can meet people like us. So find your own community and just meet. Hmm.
- [17:36]
A
Yeah. So that's somebody you have a rapport connection with. I love the fact that you actually said you're not ideally suited for first time homebuyers because of all the hand holding. And I think that's, that's a brave statement, but also one back to you, you know, know thyself that thing. And I think that's, that's like, I, I usually don't hear people say that because it's usually, you know, like, hey man, first time home buyer. Like, you know what I mean? The usual default focus of like this is the biggest segment of the market or used to be. That's, that's pretty, pretty bold. And that's, I'm just gelling on that for a minute because I've never heard anybody actually, I don't want to say reject, but let's just say not want to go after that as a market segment.
- [18:20]
B
I actually think that I don't, I want to, I might get a lot of hate here.
- [18:24]
A
Again, that's what people do on my show, they get hate.
- [18:31]
B
I actually don't think, one, I don't think that's the best market to go after. And two, first time home buyer, people think it's a niche. It's not a niche. You know, like something like 30 to 40% of home buyers are first time home buyers every year. That's not a niche. First time home buyers come across so many like from there with such different shades and needs. So if you say, oh, that's my niche, like I think you're kind of missing the mark. Like, niche is small, small, small part of the market. And by the way, like any niche can still make a great living. You know, I know people that literally in Chicago, they just do DSCR loans in Chicago, not even Illinois, just Chicago. And they're making well into six figures that have great life Quality. So any market is big enough for any niche. You don't have to go get everything, just find your people and there's a lot of loans to be done in that one middle market.
- [19:23]
A
I love that. I applaud that greatly. And I also, again I'll applaud the fact that you pointed out that the first time home buyers is not a niche when it's 30% of the market. Right. And it's just that rolling moving parade every year, you know, fluctuates a little bit based on affordability. But it's also a very crowded quote niche. Like you know, everybody's going for the first time homebuyer. I often say that if I was to get back into originating I would be. Well one of the things I've thought about a lot is divorce as a potential niche because it requires a high level of service and expertise. It doesn't get shopped a lot. Right. All the stuff with that. But then, then there's, I have a few friends and you might know as well that do reverse, you know, so and those are to me, those are special skill sets. And if I'm going to be an originator today, I want to be known for some type of a special skill set. Right. Or the ability to solve a unique set of problems. And I think what you just struck a chord with that I'm double tapping on here is this is a first time home buyer, a unique set of problems. What do you think?
- [20:20]
B
No, no, I mean any, everything can happen.
- [20:23]
A
Maybe it's a unique set of emotions, maybe emotions.
- [20:27]
B
I don't want to say like don't, don't go out there and like say like you love working first time home buyers. If that's your community, please, you'd love it.
- [20:34]
A
Right. If you're pat, you can remember when you bought a first whatever. Yeah. I think that the headline is Sam, you said find your community, find your people.
- [20:43]
B
Exactly, exactly. So yeah, have a sp. Have something that you add so much value to that pricing isn't a problem anymore. Like people don't even think about the price anymore. You don't become a commodity. So here's an example with like if you're going to go first time home buyers, again, it's such a big market, like it's not a niche. Like you can say I do first time home buyers who want to house hack. Well now that's a much smaller market and those people have unique skill sets or have unique desires and needs and you need to have a unique skill set and then the value you can provide. There can be, hey, how do you actually leverage the house hacking to buy your next property? And that can be an entire like PDF document with every step how you can like step by step process of how to what to renovate. If you're going to renovate, if you're going to do a burr strategy, you know, this is adding so much value to your client that they every time they come across anyone who's even considering house hacking, they're going to give your name out and they're never thinking, well, Sam's rate is 7.5, but this guy is 7.49. So I think I'll go with him. Your value has to be indisputable and you can only do that like you said, if you're solving very specific problems with a specific skill set.
- [22:03]
A
Okay, love that. Hey podcast family. Are you tired of chasing down real estate agents for referrals? Making cold calls and feeling like you're just not getting the results you deserve? What if in just 90 days you could double your agent referrals and finally lock in that consistent monthly income you've been striving for? My Agent Classes is the ultimate program designed to help you effortlessly attract, engage and convert real estate agents into top referral partners. We've done the hard work for you. You'll get a full library of turnkey done for you presentations, a marketing automation platform to streamline the entire process. Plug and play marketing email flyers, social media posts, text messages, weekly coaching and accountability calls, plus access to a private community of high performing mortgage pros from all over the country sharing what's working in today's market. And to top it off, we'll even load you up with 200 producing agents in your local market to help you get started fast. So stop chasing agents and start building meaningful relationships that lead to real, consistent business without the stress of cold calling or feeling undervalued. And don't just take my word for it, head on over to MortgageMarketing Pro or check the link in the show notes and you can read real success stories for mortgage pros just like you. So if you're finally ready to grow your agent referrals without chasing and have fun doing it, check out MortgageMarketing Pro today just to recap that you talked about. The three pillars to success is number one, sales skills, connection to community, and then thirdly, understanding self. Those, according to your post, ranked by easiest to hardest to achieve. If you have only one attribute, this profession will be very, very hard. Do you find that a lot of Los or what should I say? Which of the three do you think they miss are missing the most? I can recap those if you need.
- [23:59]
B
I live with them every day. I remember, I think. So if you're at 0 to 1, 0 to 1, you're missing all three. Up until three. You know, some people feel like they understand themselves pretty well, but they lose that on the way to getting to five to six loans a month. They develop sales skills and then they just go get any deal that comes to them. So they lose themselves and they lose their side of like the community that they like, but they build that sales skills. So when it comes to how do you, how do you get to 10, then you, you have to have sales skills to get to 10. But then we go understand like your community and understand yourself. Like you kind of start to explore it along the way. So people start with nothing, then they have a better understanding of themselves. But in the process of learning sales skills, they lose it. So we have to rediscover it, if you will.
- [24:57]
A
Do you, when you say sales skills or do you also mean by that like marketing? Right, Building awareness.
- [25:04]
B
Yeah, that's such a. You brought up such a good point. Yes, I do mean marketing. I, I actually think we do a bad job of labeling things in our industry. I don't think there's a whole lot of sales required in mortgage sales. You can never convince anyone to buy a home if they don't want to buy it. The best you can do is be there when they're ready to use you. So it's a lot of marketing.
- [25:36]
A
Just to be clear, I'm a big believer in sales skills and as I'm sure you are scripting per se, which I don't know if you have posted much about scripting, but conversion. Right. Because what I love that you've laid out is this, this pipeline, if you will, or processes or various steps along the growth pattern of being a producing loan officer. And this is, I don't know about you because you coach a lot of los. I see that. Conversion, sales skills, if you will, the ability to communicate and move people towards action. That is a place once somebody's at four or five loans a month, that's an easy place to get another couple more lift. Would you agree?
- [26:20]
B
Yes, very much so. So I think at 10, 10 leads a month, it's a good investment to learn how to convert, how to stay organized to convert. What are the scripting and frameworks for conversion? Because even if you increase your conversion by like 5 to 10%, you know, that's. That's almost a loan a month or at least a loan every other month. And that's a 10 leads, and that's pretty significant if you're making even three grand for little investment, that's a lot of money. Now if you're getting 20 to 30 loans now, we're talking about a seriously high ROI. So I agree, like understanding your sales funnel from the moment someone enters the journey with you down to when they close and how they refer you. Really, really valuable skills to learn. And that's the sales skills for sure.
- [27:14]
A
Hmm, interesting. Do you believe in scripting?
- [27:19]
B
I'll use that word minimally. I believe in it minimally. I think there are parts that are really useful, like how you ask certain questions. Words matter. But generally I'm a bigger fan of frameworks. The reason for that is like, if you can. Frameworks are like having a bunch of different tools so you can assess a situation and understand how you can use a framework to solve that. If you have a script, you have one tool for every problem. So it's like you bring a hammer to solve every problem if you only use scripts. So I like to use frameworks, but teach like wording to ask certain questions for best results. So, for example, I'll put a little coaching here in it when you're discussing with a realtor, because I think you market to generate enough leads for realtors to understand your value. But you have to do kind of a hard sales skills to convert interest into actual referral partners. And at a certain point, you have to be very upfront and clear with what you want and what you're going to provide. And once you make it clear, you have to say, does that sound fair? And that's my favorite, like script or wording for winning over. Because everyone wants to be fair. So when you say yes, and when they say yes, congrats, you really won something over. Because no one, no one's gonna say, yeah, that's fair, but I'm not gonna do it. If they say yes, it's fair, they're very likely going to follow through.
- [28:50]
A
Mm, I like that. I like that. So frameworks too. And so I guess I would agree with you is that I don't like scripting, as in it's robotic. But I love the way that you kind of set that up with frameworks, transitions. Right. Simply because some people need to be better at language and, you know, the use of language, if you will, to move people forward. So. All right, let me go back to something else. You posted in here, earlier in your career, you Learned there's about five ways to meet referral partners. Three of them are your favorites for 2025. They are the most effective and fun. I'll read these three and then you can, like give me your two cents on it. Introductions from others, transactions and social media. Why have you chosen those and what would you like to add?
- [29:37]
B
So the five are referrals. So introductions and referrals. Two is transactions, three is events. So like open houses, networking events. Four is social media, and five is cold calling or cold emailing. Those are the five that I know. I don't think there's any more. But the three are my favorite. Introductions, transactions and social media. Because one, those are the highest ROIs and that's the least effort for the most reward. But also the kind of people that you get, they're highly committed to you. So if you get an introduction, like, think about even where you're like, if your best friend tells you, I just bought X, Y and Z from this guy, it was awesome. And if you have a need for it, right, and you get that extra introduction, you're gonna go use that person like there's no questions. So if you get introduced to Realtors by another Realtor or by your best friend, highly likely that Realtor is going to take the meeting with you. You don't have to sell any more upfront. You're just going to get that meeting. Actually, we just, we did an exercise like a month ago how like how many introductions you can get from just your best friend or sibling. The lowest number we got was four introductions.
- [31:00]
A
Really?
- [31:01]
B
Yeah. Four introductions to realtors? The highest I saw 19 to realtors.
- [31:06]
A
Yeah. Wow.
- [31:07]
B
Yeah. Everyone knows on average five realtors and like four introductions was how the lowest we got. The highest I think we got, someone said they know more than 20, but made 19 introductions. Like, made 19 introductions.
- [31:20]
A
Wow.
- [31:21]
B
Like on a coaching call. But the second thing, transaction is like you get to show how good you are and that's the best you'll ever be. So the expectation is set. Everyone gets to see what you are. If they want it, it's great. If they don't want it, no problem. You just built a great reputation for yourself in the market. And finally social media, like you and I are a perfect example. Like, we've been seeing each other on social media talking like we're best friends for months. We had never truly talked. So if you are willing to use Law of Attraction, which your platform is fantastic for adding value to your community and just engaging with the people that are connected with you. It's. You're building the trust before you even have that first interaction. And everything else is just about how do we do it instead of do we do it. So really build. It's like the pre sale is done for you.
- [32:16]
A
Yeah, love that a lot. In your coaching with Ellos, which of I don't want to ask like the same I was going to ask you which of the those, those, the five do you think they struggle with the most? But answer it any way you want. You know which of those five moves the needle the most? Because I'm thinking contextually, here we are, January 2025, we're off to a bit of a slow start in the market, right? All that stuff like I mean is there a short list of. Because I'm going to come back to tactical of activities of like listening right now, get in the market over the next 30 days and you know what I mean? Of those five, which would you execute on?
- [32:57]
B
It really depends on your strength and weaknesses. If, if you don't have any social media, obviously don't do that. Like if you don't know how Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook works, like just don't do that one. It's too hard to build. But also if you just move to a brand new city and you don't know anyone and no one, none of you in your family knows it well, like introductions isn't going to work so great either. So understand where you are and leverage what you have. You know those are five different things and all of them can work depending on where you are and what your interests are. But assuming everything you're is just about equal, like your average loan officer. I think everyone should do introductions like just literally five, find five people in your phone book, like siblings, best friends, like just five people there or even family member. Ask for introductions to realtors. And do you want me to give the scripting for that one? Actually yeah, it's send a text, say from the top of your head, how many realtors do you know? You'll get an answer back and then say how many of them do you feel comfortable making introduction with? And then there you go, you just got to get at least. Everyone should get at least three. From there you just give them the text so they can copy paste it and make it three way text. So almost every person should use that to meet realtors. The second one I think everyone should do is if you have any transactions right now or you've had even more than 10 or 20, put some focus on it. Go back to the listing agents and when those listings, listing agents over also title is really good. People sleep on title a lot. Attorneys in Chicago, we get, it's an attorney state. So people, they have, they know a lot of realtors and no one talks to them. So if you talk to them, you're good. And then at the end I would do. So if you've done one and two and you've gone through it, which you can realistically do in like a week, then go put some energy on social media. It's a priority.
- [34:59]
A
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And just to put a cap on this again, back to another one of your posts, which is why you should follow the link in the show notes everybody and go follow Sam on LinkedIn. But this most recent post from actually two days ago. Your focus right now, mastering two key skills, lead generation, which is building a network of referral partners, using social media correctly and providing consistent and aligned value. And then two lead conversion, you know, understanding clients needs, providing clear and honest advice and closing deals efficiently. I obviously lead lead and heavy on lead generation because, you know, it's all about top of the funnel, like, and that's where I think a lot of people struggle back to your point of, you know, they spend too much time on a loan, then. Then the leads dry up, right? And then they're like up and down, up and down. I got to reinvent myself every month. My gosh, what a difficult life.
- [35:52]
B
It stops once you get to 10 with a team member. That's love magic of 10. But Jeff, I gotta say, like, what you, what you've built out with, you know, realtor classes, leading with education and that for me, that's like, that is direct to community as well for the community of the people that you want. Because the people that are will if you're willing to provide education. The people that are coming to you are the people that value education. That's, that's alignment and interests and values and that's really important. That's finding your community. So if they keep coming back, as long as you understand how to transition from the top of funnel the value of education to all the other values that you add as a loan officer to your realtor partners, then now you have a winning formula. That's the sales skills that we talked about the funnel. And I think a lot of people don't understand their value to realtors, frankly. So they get confused and they try to work with too many realtors, which I think is not feasible. You got to have a Cap on how many realtors you're truly willing to work with.
- [36:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Invest time with. You can be available at an arm's length for those two deals a year that they send you. But yeah, if they're sucking your time, that's a no go. Okay. Do me a favor. Would you mind telling us a little bit about this project you have, which is the. Was it 4 and 4 and 10? What's it called again?
- [37:18]
B
Project 4 10.
- [37:19]
A
Project 410. Thank you. I was trying to find it right here in front of me, but yeah, what is Project 410?
- [37:25]
B
So I like to get loan officers that are doing two to four loans a month that want to get to 10. And I help them get there, help them build the skill sets that they need, leverage their strength, and either ignore the weaknesses if we can ignore them, or leverage another system to overcome their weaknesses to get them to 10. And then if they want to stay in 10, that's great. If they want to go above and beyond, that's possible as well. It's just a different ballgame. But 10 for me is the magic number. That's when you make the money that you want. Your family is happy with you, you have plenty of time. You actually work less doing 10 loans a month than you did do. If you do four to six or even honestly, two loans a month can take a lot of your time. You have the best systems and processes built out. So 10 loans is fantastic. So project 410 is getting loan officers that are doing two to four and getting them to 10. But that doesn't mean I don't help anyone else. I actually believe that education should not be a barrier to success in the industry. So everything I do, all my coaching, all of that is available for free, completely. I post on LinkedIn. If anyone reaches out to me, my coaching sessions, I share them for free. Education for free. It's the skill set building in Project 410. You come work with me at umortgage. We have aligned interest and we get you to 10 loans a month.
- [38:48]
A
Fantastic. Well, once again, we'll link it up in the show notes and at a minimum, go follow Sam on LinkedIn. Because it's like I said earlier, every one of those posts is a clinic. And it's gonna make you pause and think and really go, hmm. And I think you can take away at least one thing from every post I've seen of yours. So you must be spending a lot of time putting these posts together. Cause they seem very well thought out.
- [39:10]
B
Thanks. Thanks. I think a lot about origination. So my background is I got a business degree and before mortgages I was going to be a consultant. So I got trained to break every problem down, to identify all the moving parts and fix that one tiny problem and then put it back together to have a functioning role system. So that's my training. So I just do that with mortgage sales right now. That's, that's what I love to do. That's what I love to think about. So every post is me breaking a problem down, fixing one bit and putting it back together.
- [39:48]
A
Wow, that's cool. It's a valuable skill and I bet some LOS could use that kind of a skill. So, hey, I've really enjoyed this. Sam was great to finally connect and do this over the podcast and I think everyone else enjoyed this as well. So thank you for being here.
- [40:01]
B
Thank you for having me. It was a joy and an honor.
- [40:04]
A
My pleasure. Listeners, you know what to do. Follow the links in the show notes, go to Sam's LinkedIn, follow him comment, let them know that you heard about him from this show and we appreciate you tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Okay, that's it for today's episode. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to remind you about my agent classes. Your proven system to double your agent referrals in just 90 days. Imagine never having to cold call again. Instead building real lasting relationships with top producing agents who want to send you business with done for you presentations, marketing automation, weekly coaching. It's all designed to make growing your business easier and fun. So if you're ready to take control of your agent referrals and grow your income, visit MortgageMarketing Pro or check the link in the show notes. And while you're there, don't forget to check out the success stories from other mortgage pros who've already seen incredible results. Thanks for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.