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- [00:00]
A
Rock and roll.
- [00:01]
B
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children 18 plus, you are tuned in to Mortgage Marketing Radio and I am your guest, Dustin Owen along with the original G. That's Jeff with the G. Zemfer, originally from Boston, Massachusetts. Today he plays in the sand of Nevada. If he's not podcasting, he's probably rocking out at a concert. He is my friend. He is my co author of the Green book, Rethink Everything. He is the host with the most, Jeff Zemfer. Jeff, thanks for having me on Mortgage Marketing Radio.
- [00:39]
A
Dude, that's going to be the best intro I've ever had. Thank you so much. Way to kick it off.
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B
The people need to know that we spent at least 30, if not 40 seconds working on that.
- [00:49]
A
Just goes to show. Just show up and, you know, produce content.
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B
Go.
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A
That's all you need to do.
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B
That's what we're going to do today. Right? But you, you are a professional start.
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A
You, you are, you can, you can do that so well because you've done so much content and so many episodes and so you're. You're. Dare I say, I was going to say you're a natural. Although how would you. Do you think you are? Or did you have you just put in enough effort and time that. That now it comes naturally?
- [01:17]
B
I mean. Yeah. How, how far back do you want to go? I mean, if you saw how much I talked on the phone in middle school, as if I was like your stereotypical teenage daughter, I talked that much on the phone. So you can say I started practicing storytelling and holding conversations dating back to fifth and sixth grade. But to what you're getting at. Yes. I mean, when you've hosted a podcast, even if there's no one else in the studio with you, and you know this because you've done it for longer than me, that's 400 plus opportunities for me to perform, 400 plus times for me to storytell, which puts me 400 times ahead of anybody who has yet to do it, which then makes you better on the stage or better when you're pitching your product in front of your client or your customer. All because I'm spending two to three hours a week practicing.
- [02:10]
A
Hmm. Well, before we get into that, I think that's a good launching off point for anybody who wants to know the short version of who Dustin is and what does he do? What do you want to tell them?
- [02:20]
B
God, short version. I do nothing. Short. I'm a mortgage dude. That's what I am. I'm a mortgage dude who loves this Industry inside and out. This industry taught me how to be less of a financial mess. It taught me sales marketing. It allowed me to flex as an entrepreneur. And quite honestly, it let me see behind the curtains or under the bed or inside of the closet of everyday Americans. And I quickly realized I did not want to keep up with the Joneses, that I wanted to do better than the Joneses. And as I started doing better, for me, I started realizing the opportunity that being a mortgage loan originator gave me, and that was to be everybody's financial coach or their financial literacy teacher. Because these things weren't taught in the classroom, and for most of us, they weren't even talked about at the dinner table. So on a very short as I can be version of, well, who is Dustin Owen? Yeah, he's a mortgage dude who's grateful for the industry and the profession that chose him. I didn't choose it. It chose me like most of us, and feels like he has this wealth of information that is so basic and so readily available, yet no one either practices it or they understand it, or more than likely they weren't taught it. So as a mortgage loan originator, I quickly learned my job was no longer about calculating payments and figuring out DTI and understanding loan programs and products and running aus. My job was more of a calling, and that was to help promote homeownership, help promote wealth generation through homeownership. But more importantly, hey, while I'm doing this pre qual that you need to get done, can I teach you a couple things about generating wealth not just through real estate, but maybe by having a budget or maybe understanding compound interest? And then can I point you to the right resources so that you too aren't like me, where when I entered in the industry, I literally didn't know anything. I didn't know what a 401k was. I didn't know how compound interest worked. I didn't know what a budget was or how to create one. So I think that's a little bit of a higher level of my calling. But at the end of the day, to answer your question, I'm just a mortgage dude.
- [04:31]
A
So where does this calling come from? I mean, you get into the industry somehow and then you talked about didn't want to keep up with the Joneses. I want to better understand how did it turn from what might have started off as a way to make a few bucks to something of a higher calling, to use your word.
- [04:48]
B
Wow, I love this. I feel like I'm having a therapy session with my Counselor with these questions. Jeff. All right. Where does it come from? I mean, I'm a kid who grew up in the 90s, right? Born late 70s. So 80s and 90s was my era. Have an amazing family, great parents. And I share the story. Like, I'm fortunate. I'm literally, I'm very fortunate. I think there's another term that people like to throw out there where they're like, oh, well, so and so is. What's that term? I'm white. I'm male.
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A
Privilege.
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B
Help me out. What's. What's it?
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A
Privileged.
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B
Privileged, yeah. Okay, I'm privileged.
- [05:31]
A
I think that's where you're going with naming off those things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [05:34]
B
I'm the first to admit that. But you know where I'm more privileged? What? I'm more privileged. I grew up with two parents who loved each other and loved my sister and I. I grew up in one house my whole life. I went to three schools my whole life. One elementary, one middle, one high school, four if you include my university. And I think that is the root and that is the foundation. So me having that allowed me to understand all of my blessings. But I also grew up very working class, lower middle class, blue collar. We didn't take vacations. If we were going to take a vacation, it was to go drive from Orlando to Annapolis, Maryland, to visit my grandparents. And more than likely, my dad probably had my sister and I stripping copper wiring that was left over from a job site so we could go recycle it to pay for the gas money. And we never stayed in hotels. We literally stayed with my grandparents. Like, that was quote, unquote, vacation for me growing up. Or as I got older, my parents would go sit through a timeshare seminar so they could get the free vacation at Daytona beach, which, by the way, we call that dirt Tona, if you're a local. And we got to do that on the weekends. So that's a little bit of a background. So to say that I grew up with a chip on my shoulder or I grew up a little bit envious. Yeah, I did. Like, I'm not afraid to admit it. I'm not bragging about it, but I think it's very much part of the story. So I grew up wanting more. Like, I wanted to give my kids everything that my parents gave me. I wanted to live a lifestyle at least as good as my parents. But there's definitely some financial things that I wanted, and there's also some things I never wanted to do myself. I never wanted to fix an engine because I saw how it used my dad's whole weekend and frustrated him when he had to fix his own engine versus pay someone else to do it. So I knew from an early age I wanted to make enough money that I could take vacations and that I could literally pay someone to fix my own engine when it broke. The coaching and the teaching aspect, I don't know where that came from. Besides, I think I would have loved being a high school teacher and a high school varsity coach based football more than likely. But I was too money motivated. So this industry and the career I've had gave me that opportunity to work in a field with unlimited income potential. But at the same time, it let me flex into some of the fulfillment personally that I pull out of teaching and coaching.
- [08:05]
A
Yeah, yeah. Because it gives you both sides. I mean, money in and of itself at some point isn't fulfilling once you achieved it, once you've got the things or whatever. Right. At least for me, that's my experience. It's the other things that are more fulfilling.
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B
Isn't that so true? And you couldn't have told that to the 26 year old me?
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A
No.
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B
Hell, you couldn't have shared that with the 34 year old me.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But the 45 year old me, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. It's not about the money. And what I've learned, it is about the money until it's not. It's about the money until you get it. And then, then you realize there's way more than to life than, than the money.
- [08:44]
A
Right. And of course, you know, not to go super deep, it's like, it's just meaning. That's all we do and is attaching meaning to different things. Right. So whatever money means for you, for some people, they still have their identity wrapped up in how much money I have. And hopefully, you know, you mature. Sounds like you, you have, I have. Where it's just like, okay, I want money, I enjoy money because it gives me flexibility and choices. But my identity is not wrapped up in money. It's like who I am, how do I impact other people interact. Right. Who am I being as a dad, as a husband, all that stuff.
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B
Yeah. Money gives my wife and I one less thing to fight about. Money gives us one less thing to worry about. Money allows us to take awesome vacations. Money allows us to give back to our family and our community. Like there's definitely things. But then again, maybe, maybe that's because we're responsible, positive people. I'm sure there's others that have all the money in the world and they still fight about it, you know, and they have all the money in the world and they still worry about it because of how they choose to leverage that that money.
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A
Yeah, yep. They're probably overextended or whatever and all that.
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B
If we're going to go all philosophical, but we don't need to go there, people. That's not, that's not entertaining for the folks listening and tuning.
- [09:50]
A
Oh no, I mean, you know, somewhat, I mean is you listening to this right now? Think about your identity and association to money, you know what I mean? So anyway, we'll leave that for you to gel on listener for a moment. Okay. So, so it's funny, interesting you hearing describe your background. Kind of ironic that you mentioned the vacation thing. I don't know what it was but like a week ago that whole idea of vacationing with my parents popped into my head and I started thinking because I'm thinking about like where we've taken our kids on vacation and we've been, you know, very blessed and fortunate as well. And it's a very similar path in that number one on the vacation thing. The only vacation I remember doing is exactly what you said, going to my grandmother's house or we went camping, like that was it like we never got on a plane. I don't think ever. I, I, I think the first time I got on a plane was in my 20s, you know, when I was like leaving home or whatever, you know, crazy. Yeah, so that's that. And then secondly, funny connection here is like, yeah, I, I, after high school did not go to college immediately afterwards because I wanted to get out in the real world. Right. And start making money. And so for me that was construction. And then a couple of years in, I realized all these guys I'm around who are 40, 50 years old and they're still shoveling cement and I'm like.
- [11:03]
B
Hmm, I don't think that's what I.
- [11:06]
A
Want to be doing when I'm 40, 50 years old. So I was, went down a similar path of like sales oriented, looking for those unlimited mlm. You know what I mean? I don't know if you ever dabbled in mlm, but I sure as hell did. Oh, what was yours? What'd you do?
- [11:20]
B
Yes, correct. And it's funny for our hiring managers out there, the branch managers, the area managers, CEOs of companies, I mean there's, there are certain, certain characteristics I look for in order to have a successful hire, especially somebody who's like Newly licensed or newer to the industry. I love somebody who starts telling stories about all the multi level marketing that, that they did. And I want to figure out how successful were they? I mean, if you tell me that you made $30,000 selling cutco knives between your sophomore and junior summer of college, I'm probably going to hire you on the spot and offer you like free coaching for six months. Because you can sell, you can market. Mine goes back. I mean, I was legitimately buying. I wasn't buying. My mom was taking me to the store, the baseball card store. I was buying full boxes of Topps baseball cards. And then I was selling the packs at garage sales because I could, let's say, buy a box for $10 and it came with 20 packs in it. And I was selling the packs for a dollar a piece. And as long as I didn't open them, then I was gonna have a net profit of $10. The problem was for me, at 11 years old, I probably opened half the packs, if not two thirds of the packs. So I never really made out. And then by middle school, I was buying blow pops and selling them for, you know, entrepreneur for a dollar. Oh yeah. I was mowing grasses, working the concession stand at the ball field. Had my first job at 16. I have only known how to work, and I've always enjoyed work because there's a sense of purpose and fulfillment, but there was always that monetary reward that I was chasing. So I've grown up working and I've grown up making money and that's all I know. But it's also, I guess, all I enj. I say all I enjoy, but I enjoy it. Therefore I tend to not complain about it.
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A
Yeah. You have how many children and what are their ages?
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B
Two children, 16 and 19.
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A
16.
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One's going to be a sophomore in college and one's going to be a junior in high school.
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A
So mine are 22 and 20 and 20 and 20 and 22. Yep.
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B
Oh, 20 and 22. Yep. So just a couple years, a couple years ahead. Both at home or.
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A
Well, both, well, still sort of enrolled in college. That's like a whole separate longer story. Both at home though. Yes, to answer that question.
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B
I asked that.
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A
Yeah, go ahead.
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B
No, I said, I asked that because we have both ours at home this summer because my home, my, my home, my son is home for the summer and it's nice. I like, like my wife likes it. We like having both the kids home, but I know that that goes away next month when he goes back to school.
- [14:11]
A
Well, I just had. So I've seen you the reason why I'm asking this question and kind of going down this road a little bit, just so you know. And for the listeners who know, if you, if you haven't followed your podcast or YouTube channel, we're going to link it up in the show notes. But you've got a killer YouTube channel, right? The Loan Officer Podcast, tloponline.com We'll put all that stuff in there so they can listen and follow. But what I've noticed about some of your conversations is you, it's not all about mortgage. Like you go how I'm trying to, how do I describe this? You talk about America. You talk about some of the quote issues, right? Yeah. In modern America. And it made me think when you were talking about grew up working cutting lawns and you know, doing your thing and then asked about your children, if you how isn't it different today? Like do you think it's harder to just like, you know how we used to go cut lawns and deliver newspapers? Like those things are gone, right?
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B
Well, I don't know. I mean my son mowed lawns until he got tired of the Florida heat. And then he went and his first part time job was at Chick Fil A. He parlayed that to a part time job at Dick's Sporting Goods and now he parlayed that experience into a just plush kush job at this local kind of, I call it the high end bougie gym. Like we're like professional athletes and the high powered attorneys work out and he hasn't had much issue obtaining those. And then my daughter, even this week, I mean she's doing all the normal kid jobs. She's driving a kid to vacation Bible school and back all week and the parents are paying her 50 bucks and she's taking care of the neighbor's bunnies while they're out of town and she's making a couple hundred bucks. So I think they're still there. I would say we as parents don't promote it. I would say we as parents don't see the social benefits enough of our children having side hustles and part time jobs more than they're not out there.
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A
Yeah, I agree.
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B
At least that's me in central Florida. Those are my experience.
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A
Yeah. And that's why it made me care. Like today there's no way. I know I say this, but it does vary where you live. Like most my kids grew up mostly in Orange county in California. Right. Southern California, there's 3 million people there. And like the cutting lawn jobs, those are spoken for, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like a lot of the manual labor jobs are spoken for. You're not going to go get that as the neighbor, you know, privileged. Go back to what we said earlier, the privileged kid walking over. But I do agree it's a mindset and you got to kind of condition your kids for that. I've tried to do that, but yeah, it seems to be the route is either you go fast food or something retail oriented versus can you develop a skill? Like, I've had my son do some of my video editing. So that's a cool skill that you can develop, which is the new lawnmower, maybe. You know what I mean? I don't know.
- [17:15]
B
100% it is. No. And we've had my daughter come in and she was probably 12 or 13. My daughter takes. Actually both my kids are good mixes. But there's certain moments where you have a conversation with my daughter and you're like, oh my God, you're your father. Like, there's just no denying that dude is your, your dad. And at 13, she was like, child labor laws are BS. I'm like, would you even know what BS means?
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A
Yeah, right.
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B
She's like, I just want to work. And what she meant is she wants to party plan. She wants to. When we are hosting our annual sales rally and our marketing team had to put together a hundred table setups in goodie bags. It was the summertime and my daughter came in and she worked for four hours assisting the marketing team with preparing for this, you know, big event where we're going to have 100 people in town and, you know, hotel rooms and fancy dinners. So I like what you said there because if we just expand our horizons a little bit and get creative with our thought process, there are opportunities for us to bring the young adults or the teens into a work environment and have them do minimum wage tasks. But maybe it's not necessarily washing cars or picking up poop in the backyard from some dog business they have or even mowing lawns like we were talking about.
- [18:40]
A
Interesting. Yeah. And there's the lessons you got to give kids too as well. Let's. Let's do this. Let's pivot. Because I think this is a good segue into speaking of lessons and opportunities. Okay, so here we are. Six month mark 2024 July. You how long have been in the mortgage business now?
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B
I entered in 2004. So it has been 20 years. Two decades.
- [19:08]
A
20 years. Yeah. And you are VP of the Eastern division, Sales for Waterstone, correct?
- [19:15]
B
Yes.
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A
Okay, so you interact with a lot of loan officers, correct?
- [19:19]
B
Yeah, my day to day is staying on the sales side of things, working with the recruiting department, working with the marketing department, helping lead 13 branches, 100 plus loan officers, 300 plus associates. And by helping lead, because they all have branch managers and there's other divisional executives that also pour themselves into the development and the support of that talent. But you know, if someone were to say, well, what do you do day in, day out on a high level yet it's a lot of coaching, a lot of training, a lot of teaching. There's some, some P and L management, there's some advice given, some team building, business development. But if it, if it goes in that box, what you won't call me to do, you won't call me to do your compliance. You probably don't want me to do your accounting, although I could probably fake my way through it for at least a solid 2/4. And although I dig the secondary market, I love to talk servicing. More than likely, if you compared me to someone who's been doing that for 20 years and not sales for 20 years, that person's going to run circles around me.
- [20:23]
A
Okay. All right. So six months into 2024, if you were described, is there an overarching or a consistent vibe theme, recurring word that's coming up as you're interacting with these Los.
- [20:42]
B
Oh, a word. Yeah. Endure. Endurance. Like I'm a endurance athlete. At this point, I have to accept what I am for years and years. I'm like, I'm not a runner. My wife's like, babe, you run like four days a week. You're a runner. I'm like, I'm not one of those people. No, I'm just going to admit it. I'm one of those people. I'm an endurance athlete. I choose not to just run. I like to do like swimming, biking, and running all in the same day, all in the same race as my, my drug of choice. So I lean into that when, when coaching mortgage sales professionals, it's like, look, you're enduring right now. You are, you're building something. Your payment for what you're building, your payment for your effort is going to be delayed. I'm not going to say you're not going to get any type of compensation, but the bulk of your compensation is going to happen in the future. And when it happens, you're going to turn around and feel like, oh, my gosh, I don't deserve all of this. Money. And I'm going to say no, you earned every bit of that money. You just earned it in 22, 23, 24. So endure, grind, head down, blinders on. That's a lot of the conversations that we're having right now.
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A
And is there a prescription that you're handing out to these people to, you know, of activities, to, you know, just, like, take, take two pills, call me in the morning. Like, what are you prescribing to them?
- [22:04]
B
Well, it's interesting you kind of allude to this, and I don't want this to be a big, like, commercial or pitch, but because I started this podcast four or five years ago and terribly named it Terrible Name, the Loan Officer Podcast. And the reason why I say it's a terrible name, it's a terrible name because to me, it's like, Dave Ramsey and Joe Rogan have a baby. I'm teaching the lessons I learned because I became an LO but these are lessons I've taught to realtors, to real estate investors, to homebuyers, and yes, to the mortgage community. But so many of the lessons that we talk about are applicable to sales professionals and entrepreneurs outside of mortgage. I mean, it truly is a talk radio show, I. E. Podcast that we produce twice a week. I just couldn't come up with a better name. So we called it the Loan Officer Podcast. Because of that, a lot of loan originators really tuned in and started digging what we were doing. And I would get these compliments that people would be like. And by the way, my friends call me by my initials. So my first name's Dustin. My last name's Owen, but so many people call me Do And I accept that and embrace it. So I'll get these messages on IG or LinkedIn or even an email when people can figure out what my email address is. And, like, do. I learned so much more from you than I did my branch manager. And I would pause and I'd be like, oh, my gosh, that makes my heart smile. But, oh, my gosh, that makes me so sad, because I'm one dude sitting in a studio for two hours a week producing content that's not interactive. You cannot call in. You cannot raise your hand and ask a question. You cannot request for me to state that again or elaborate. So as I thought, more on it, and I sat on it, I'm a big follower of this guy, Alex Hormozi. And Alex Hormozi teaches and preaches, like, create the content, put it out there, and if it's any good, your Audience will raise their hand and they'll tell you what they want to buy from you. Well, my audience raised their hand and said, I want to learn more from you. Do you do coaching? Do you do sales training? Do you have any courses? And at the time I was like, nope, nope, never been on my radar. Well, recently, about a year ago, we went all in and I said, well, the people want it. Let's go ahead and give them our version of business coaching, our version of sales training for mortgage sales professionals. That's our version. There's other really good products and services out there. And I call them Coke, I call them Pepsi, I call them mountain dew. We're Dr. Pepper. That's our jam. If people love Dr. Pepper, they're going to love what we do. If they don't love Dr. Pepper, then we're probably not for them. But through this. And we call it the TLOP MLO Coaching Community. It's a community, it's very much membership based and it's priced to be the most valuable coaching in the market. Like, I did that on purpose. I get to help run a mortgage company for a living. I don't have to make tons of money by charging a lot of money to the mortgage community to teach them what I think are the basics. So I developed something called the blueprint. And the blueprint, if anybody wants it, they can reach out to you, Jeff. I'll get it to them. But to me, I loved when I was a loan officer, a rookie lo I loved that the core had the Greatness Tracker, right? And you listen to these, these just beast of mortgage professionals. You like girls like Shayla Gifford. And Shayla tells her signature story about how the Greatness Tracker is how she went from making 300 grand a year to a million dollars a year. It's literally a document on a piece of paper that looks something like that, Right? Well, I love the Greatness Tracker. I just felt like the Greatness Tracker was not for the next gen lo. It needed some updating. So I built something called the Blueprint. And by the way, not I. It was like nine of us and it took us six months. But it's as basic as that. So I think you asked me, are there, is there a blueprint or a formula that I'm teaching? Yeah, like we literally teach loan officers. You need to have 10 meaningful conversations a day. Like let's, let's just make it very basic. 10 meaningful. Then they'd say, well, what makes it meaningful? I'm like, well, were you building a relationship with somebody who could refer you consistently? Were you talking to somebody, whether it was a lead follow up or a new lead intake that wants to use your product or your service? Were you connecting with someone who can introduce you to others who want to use your product or service or can introduce you to others who want to consistently refer you business? If the answer is yes, it was a meaningful conversation. Your job, your goal. Have 10 of those a day. Now how we have 10 of those a day? Well, that's where we follow theme days and I did not come up with theme days. It was taught to me. I use it when I weight train, right? I don't just do chest every day. I do chest on Monday, back on Tuesday, legs on Wednesday. I don't just, I use theme days when I train for my ironman competitions. Today's Monday, so I swam. Tomorrow's Tuesday, so I bike, right? Wednesday means I run well. In the mortgage world, we have theme days. So we follow our theme days because our theme days lets us know who to call that day, takes all the guesswork out of it, makes it easy. And through those phone calls, I'm trying to have the bulk of my 10 meaningful conversations and then other things that I track hey, did I get a lead today? Or for some people, did I get three leads today? Depending on what your volume goals are, you may need to get a lead a day. You may need to get three leads a day. And did I spend 30 minutes online proactively networking for my business? Right? And we have this whole formula, it's 30, 10, 5, 5, 3 one that we teach about. If you follow that formula, it only takes you 30 minutes a day to intentionally grow and market to your network online. And then I throw in things like how many face to faces did you have this week? How many networking functions did you attend this month? Watch this. How many minutes of exercise did you get in and how many pages of a nonfiction type book did you read? And that would be how we try to simplify what mortgage sales professionals have to do daily, weekly, monthly in order to dominate not just in this market, but dominate in this market so that you can crush it in the future market.
- [28:41]
A
Sounds like you are suggesting people be brilliant in the basics.
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B
Oh my gosh. I'm way too dumb to ever try to be successful outside of the basics. I mean it is amazing if you just do the basics consistently, the results that anybody can achieve. I'm neither a good runner, a good swimmer or a good cyclist. There's three disciplines there. I'm not above average or great at any of them. Yet I can compete in my age group at a respectable level in a sport that I didn't start doing until four years ago. All because I dominate the basics. Yes, I built my career, Todd Duncan. I built my career on the 12 week challenge. I was so broke I couldn't afford to go to Sales Mastery. But my buddy's older brother went and my buddy's older brother came back and told us about this thing called the 12 Week Challenge. The 12 Week Challenge is how I built my book of business. It's how I went from irrelevant to making top producer status in two years. And here's how simple it was. Jeff. Back in the day, I sent 12 letters a day. Now today there'd be 12 emails, text messages or DMs. Right. But 12 letters a day. And then I made 12 outbound phone calls a day in order to schedule one meeting a day so then the following day I could go on one meeting a day. And I did that for just 12 weeks, by the way. I didn't do it on Saturdays and Sundays. I was way too lazy. But I just did it for 12 weeks. And what ended up happening is through, through that 84 day period, 60 calendar days, I was able to get belly to belly and face to face with 60 real estate agents, of which 30 of them didn't like me or I didn't like them. That facts, that's Life. Of the 30 that were left, man, we liked each other, but half of them, they weren't serious professionals. They were never going to make it in real estate. They weren't going to have anyone to refer me. But then that left me with 15 and those 15 is all I ever needed to launch my business. So yes, the basics, it's not rocket science.
- [31:00]
A
Yeah, I love it. I'm on the same page as you.
- [31:04]
B
Yes.
- [31:04]
A
Let me, let me throw a monkey wrench in here for a second because I know you've probably heard this narrative before. You mentioned the. Was it 15 agents who you didn't jail with or actually, sorry, not didn't jail with, but didn't have any business, I believe.
- [31:18]
B
Yes.
- [31:18]
A
Right. Whatever that number was, there's always a percentage of agents you're going to meet and don't have business, et cetera. Do you hear this thing from ellos? A lot of like, well, how can I figure out how to circumvent that and not even have to spend time with the agents who don't have business?
- [31:34]
B
Yeah, I think there's, there's a fine line between the shotgun approach and approaching things with intentionality. And, you know, so, like, if I'm using the same hunting analogy and I want to stay on it, you know, maybe I want to shoot with a shotgun, but I only want to go where there's the most prey. Because too many times we end up getting that whole paralysis by analysis. And we spend all of our time trying to figure out, is this one even worth calling? Is this one even worth texting? I'm like, by the time you all figure out your list, I've called through mine three times. Yeah, and you have momentum now. What's that?
- [32:16]
A
And you have momentum.
- [32:17]
B
Yes. Well, and that's what I was going to get at. You. And I kicked off today's show talking about what it means when someone like you podcast as many times as you have. All of those reps, all of that opportunity to practice, to hone in your skill set. There's no such thing as a bad realtor meeting. That was an opportunity to hear a new objection. That was an opportunity to try a new pitch. That was an opportunity to get better at question asking. And better yet, I coach and teach every meeting we go on. We should leave with two referrals. Now, you might not have a home buyer referral for someone who needs a home loan. That's going to be, you know, turned into a borrower for you. The referral. Let's say Jeff and I met and it was a terrible meeting. Like, Jeff's an idiot and got bad breath. I can't stand the guy. Or Jeff thinks I'm a total DB and he can't stand me. It's okay for us not to like jelly, but it's not okay for me to not get something for the time and the effort and the energy that I spent. So I may say to Jeff, hey, Jeff, out of curiosity, who's someone you look up to in your office? Right. I'm just trying to get a name and a number. I promise you, tomorrow, when I have to make my 12 calls, I'm going to call that person. I'm going to say, hey, I was just in your office yesterday. I was meeting with Jeff, and he was bragging about you, and I figured if Jeff is willing to brag about you, you're probably someone I should meet. Or I could have said to Jeff, because maybe Jeff was the big dog and maybe Jeff was big, dogging me around and bullying me around the meeting, and that's why we didn't hit it off. Hey, Jeff, let me ask you a question. So I'M the rising star in my company. Who's the rising star in your company? Because I've noticed that rising stars love to stick together. So I've constantly and consistently coached loan officers. When you go on these meetings, there's no such thing as a bad meeting because it gives you opportunities to practice, it gives you another at bat, another rep. But you should walk away from every meeting with at least two referrals.
- [34:14]
A
Hmm. That right there is, you know, worth the price of admission. Whoever's listening right now, I mean, just asking those questions and then changing the mindset because you're right, I had not thought of that in a long time. That there is no quote, unquote, bad realtor meeting. Like, that's a whole shift, you know.
- [34:31]
B
And I've gone this far. I've said to somebody, hey, look, I gotta be honest with you. I so appreciate your time, and you obviously crush it. I just don't see this. I don't. I don't think you and I are going to be a good fit together. But who do you think would. Would be a good fit for me? I'm a lot. I get it. But I would say that to somebody. I would literally say, hey, look, I'm a lot. I get it. But who do you think would be a good fit for me? And you'd be amazed. The, the, the. Their whole tonality and their body language and their posture just sinks into the chair. They relax, they even smile and become a little bit nicer because I dropped their guard. I've had three names, three names given to me. And you'd be amazed because usually this happens when that person was like the number one producer that I probably used every sales tactic to get in front of them and I forced them to have a meeting with me. But now all of a sudden, those names they gave me, when I call them and I said, I landed a meeting with that person, and everyone knows that that guy or that girl's a little bit prickly. And then I say that that guy or girl spoke highly of them and that they suggested that we meet. It's a layup. And usually it's a layup with the type of agents we do want to work with. Like those that are actively selling 18 to 36 homes in today's market who, who do run a sustainable business, and they work well with local lenders. Like, we are.
- [35:59]
A
18 to 36 homes in what period of time?
- [36:01]
B
A year. A year.
- [36:03]
A
Okay, that's. That is your criteria for spending time with agents? 18 homes.
- [36:10]
B
My criteria are Is. Is quite honestly, are you licensed? Are you full time, Are you serious, and are you in growth mode? Like, those are my requirements. That could be somebody who hasn't closed but three transactions in the past six months, but because they've only been licensed for 12 months. But I'm looking for full time serious professionals who are in growth mode. And then obviously we have to somehow gel. I spent too many years slamming square pegs through round holes and had just learned there's enough fish in the sea, there's enough realtors in my market. I don't need to force it with, with someone where we don't see eye to eye. They don't play by, by my rules, or I'm not willing to play by their rules.
- [37:00]
A
That's pretty ballsy to in front of the person say, hey, you know what? Really appreciated the time today. I just want to be straight up. We're both busy people. Like, I'm really not sure that we're a fit for each other. You know, just be like, take it away.
- [37:14]
B
It's like anything, Jeff. Way easier with wisdom. Way, way easier with money in the bank and way easier with a pipeline that's full. And I get that. I'm the first to recognize that. One of my first managers, the guy's name is Rob Mitchum. He's not in the business any longer, but he's a hell of a guy if you ever meet him. And Rob came by my workstation. They were called cubes back then. You know, we can't call them cubicles anymore. We have to call them workstations. But he came by my workstation and he saw I was working the same file for the same borrower for like four days straight. He's like, do. Can I tell you the best four letter word in sales? And I'm going, the F word. I mean, I'm like. He's like, next. He's like, next. It's the best four letter word in sales. Next. And it was easy because I, I heard him, but I don't think I was listening. You know, I think that's from Wesley Snipes, Woody Harrelson, White men can't jump, you know, And I think it was Wesley Snipes character talking to Woody Harrelson's character. He's like, you know, you hear me, but you don't listen. And anyhow, I heard him, but I didn't listen. It wasn't until years went by that I could fully listen to what he was saying, which was say no and go out there and go meet with 10 new agents, call 10 prospects back, reach out to your circle of influence 10 more times because that's going to be more fruitful than you sitting here working this cold, dead lead.
- [38:55]
A
Love that. And that does take, like you said, some maturity, some wisdom. Couple wins under the belt. You know, there's a lot of different ways we could go in this conversation right now because a lot of things are popping my head from like, you know, should you put up with the toxic prickly realtor? Right. I think that was a question you and I commented on in the social feeds a couple of weeks ago. Whatever my answer to that was, you know, when you're starting out, you got to put up with more BS than when you're well established.
- [39:24]
B
Yeah, I think it's, I think there's a process to everything that we do and we have to pay our dues, but I think so many times you have to also learn the lessons the hard way. How many of us, we entered into this profession because we're hard headed, because we're willing to bet on ourselves, because we like to be like, hey, hold my beer, watch this. So with that same type of gusto also comes our unwillingness to heed advice, which is when I'm like, you know, Jeff told me about that. He told me that stove was hot, but I still go and touch the stove. I'm like, damn, Jeff was right, that stove was hot. What I don't do, because Jeff gave me the heads up, I probably didn't put my entire hand on the stove and I probably will never touch it again and I'll probably start listening to Jeff more often. So I do agree, and I, and I have lived it, that yes, this is all great advice. This is what top producers do and well oiled machines operate. However, it is easier said than done and it's easier with experience.
- [40:31]
A
Good, good advice there. All right, for the last couple of minutes we've got left, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to get the, the do paint the picture on, you know, you're close to it as well. There's, there's various, you know, psychologies circulating right now in the industry. It's a bit of a challenging time. Whatever. All the stuff we know narrative we hear every day. What is the picture you would paint to the person who's in that space where their income's down, transactions are down. There's not a lot of movement going on. A lot of the housing is in hold pattern to some degree. Even though I know like I get the narrative, you know, there's Sean Bonozian, did 100 million in the month of May. Like, you know, I get it. Right? But then there's like, you know, the individual. He's a super cool dude. Yeah, awesome dude. Of course he is from Boston. But, like, what are you telling your people right now? Now, if they're in that, like, oof. It's a little. A little sticky right now. Like, should I hang in there?
- [41:31]
B
Let's do this. Because you and I survived 0809. Right. And by the way, 0809, it started happening in 7, so 7, 8, 9. It wasn't until end of 10, beginning 11, that we started picking ourselves back up. And so I lived this. I remember where I was, what I was doing. Had my office packed, put it in the back of my truck, had my resume on. Remember the ladders? The ladders.com was like a job placement message board for people seeking sales jobs.
- [42:03]
A
With 6 figure 100k, right? Yep.
- [42:06]
B
And. And I had this realization because I actually had an opportunity to leave the industry. And when I sat down, the opportunity was going to require me to build a following, a network of referral sources, a network of clients. It was going to require me to work 50, 60 hours a week. And some of those were nights and weekends because I was going to be managing a large venue in charge of ticket sales and advertising sales. And I'm talking like big concerts coming through. Um, and I was going to have to learn that industry. And here's what I realized. I could stay in the mortgage industry, where I at least had some bit of a following. I at least knew what I was doing. All I was going to have to do is work really hard. Well, the other job, I was going to have to work really hard, but recreate a following and learn a whole different industry. So to those people, I would say, what else are you going to do? Like, what else? Like, let's walk through that. Let's actually visualize it. Let's get out a pen and paper and let's write that down. What did you do prior to the mortgage industry? What were your hours like? What was your best income year and what was the maximum you could have made if you stayed in that industry? And what I would tell most, 98 out of 100 would realize that they work in a great industry with good people, with a higher calling. That higher calling is being financial literacy advisors, helping people generate wealth through homeownership. And they have unlimited income potential. They know this industry. And regardless of how slow they Are or not. They do have business coming in. They do. They do have lead sources. And there are plenty of people who know what they do for a living and how they can help them. So really, it's a question for the guy or girl in the mirror. What are you doing about it? What does your effort look like? Where's your intentionality going? Because for most of us, this is a great gig in an industry that we know and love, and there's not something better for us. And if there is, it's going to require us to work really hard, put in lots of hours, and do things that are uncomfortable. We might as well do things that are uncomfortable in an industry where we already have traction.
- [44:30]
A
Hmm. That's good advice. Reminds me of the. Everything's hard. Choose your hard, you know. That's awesome. All right, well, this has been a cool, awesome coaching session from a veteran who has interacted with lots of people that's got a, I think, a nice scope and view of what's actually working in today's market. So thank you for that. We also want to allow people to be able to connect with you because there's a lot more great content you have. First and foremost, your YouTube channel is banging. You just crossed a 20,000 subs. Congratulations on that. That's a whole separate podcast in and of itself. So I'm going to put links in the show notes to the YouTube. Also the TLOP community. This is tloponline.com correct?
- [45:11]
B
Yeah, look. TLOP the loan officer podcast. So the podcast is still the loan officer podcast, but Tlop is now the brand because tlop brings the YouTube channel. It brings a newsletter that I write every single week. It's free to sign up for that. Information is on Tlop Online. Tlop Online is our website. The reason why I don't have TLOP.com is because someone already had it, so I had to do tloponline.com and, you know, we have the Tlop coaching community for all of those people who are worn out of all the free resources. Right. Podcast is free. YouTube channel's free. The newsletter is free. For those that want more, then we invite them. Hey, check out what we're doing. Come be a part of our community.
- [45:54]
A
Yeah, you guys got a good, thriving community. I know because I've seen it behind the scenes, and you got great content. So I just want to bring more good content to people because we need more people rising up, raising their standards in this industry, you know, and so it's about the people and the environments, the community that you're around that are going to help you to do that. So all the links you're looking for, including following Dustin on LinkedIn, is in there because he's quite chatty on LinkedIn and that's probably one of the best places to find them.
- [46:22]
B
Yeah. Jeff.
- [46:22]
A
Dustin, man, thank you.
- [46:23]
B
Yeah, thank you for this. We've been trying to do this for months. Absolutely love what you're doing with my agent class. We are. The T lock community is a big supporter of your product. I love teaching loan officers how to build their brand and their local market by being that educator and hosting classes and events just like you do it for them in a box. So, you know, keep doing what you're doing. It's a phenomenal product. And more, more importantly, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
- [46:54]
A
My pleasure, man. Was overdue, but I'm glad we had this conversation and I'm pretty confident you'll be returning as a guest if you would be open to that in the coming weeks.
- [47:01]
B
I would love it. I would love it, but.
- [47:03]
A
All right, you know what to do. Yep. Please leave us a review. If you like this one, share it with somebody else you find valuable to get it. And of course, check out the links in the show notes. We'll see you on the next one, people. Bye for now.
- [47:14]
B
Sharing is caring.
- [47:15]
A
All right.
- [47:19]
B
Wow.