The 1-Message-a-Day System That Fills Your Pipeline

Summary

Episode Summary: "The 1-Message-a-Day System That Fills Your Pipeline"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Mortgage Marketing Radio
• Host: Jeff Zimpfer
• Guest: Michelle Burman Michael
• Release Date: July 16, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio, host Jeff Zimpfer welcomes back Michelle Burman Michael to discuss her innovative approach to social media marketing tailored specifically for Mortgage Loan Originators. Recorded live at the Mastermind Summit in Las Vegas, this marks the first time Jeff and Michelle meet in person after connecting virtually since 2019.

Understanding the Power of Leverage on Social Media

Michelle kicks off the conversation by outlining her mission: teaching mortgage and real estate professionals to harness the power of leverage through social media. She emphasizes that success isn't about achieving virality or amassing followers but about creating value that translates into tangible business opportunities.

[00:47] Michelle: "This is not about virality, this is not about how we get more followers... It's about understanding that creating value creates opportunity."

Her focus is on outbound prospecting across the three major platforms: Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Michelle points out that while these platforms are different, they each offer unique opportunities for strategic engagement.

Common Pitfalls: Follower Growth vs. Engagement

Michelle identifies two primary challenges professionals face on social media:

1. Obsessing Over Follower Counts:

   • Many professionals fixate on growing their follower base, mistakenly equating follower numbers with business success.
   • Michelle argues that while followers can be beneficial, they are not the primary drivers of revenue.

   [02:09] Michelle: "I feel like I'm missing something."

2. Struggling with Engagement:

   • Even with consistent content creation, engagement often remains low, leaving professionals feeling ineffective despite their efforts.

   Jeff prompts Michelle to delve deeper into these issues, highlighting the disconnect between creating content and generating meaningful engagement.

Michelle's 1-Message-a-Day Framework

Michelle introduces her core strategy: sending one thoughtful message each day to someone you don't know. This disciplined approach is designed to fill the sales pipeline consistently. Her framework comprises three main components:

1. Identify Your Levers:

   • Leverages are existing relationships that can bridge to new connections.
   • Example: If Michelle knows Jeff, she examines Jeff’s connections to identify potential new contacts.

2. Categorize Your Outcomes:

   • Michelle categorizes her goals into three buckets: podcasting, webinars, and in-person speaking engagements.
   • These categories serve as pathways to generate leads and create business opportunities.

3. Daily Messaging:

   • Commit to sending at least one direct message daily within the defined categories.
   • Each message should leverage mutual connections and include a clear call to action.

   [07:20] Michelle: "Sending one message every single day for 365 days... That is like a freaking fact."

Strategic Engagement: Breadcrumbing

Beyond direct messaging, Michelle discusses the concept of "breadcrumbing" — strategically engaging with multiple potential leads through comments and interactions on social media posts. This creates a trail that attracts new connections by demonstrating consistent value and presence.

[21:05] Michelle: "Breadcrumbing is one too many on social."

She emphasizes the importance of intentionality and strategy in breadcrumbing to ensure that each interaction serves a purpose in building meaningful relationships.

Personal Journey and The Black Line

Michelle shares her personal story of overcoming significant life challenges, including identity crises, relationship struggles, and the loss of a child. These experiences have shaped her resilience and strategic mindset, culminating in the creation of her upcoming book, "The Black Line."

[47:02] Michelle: "What is your black line? You have to ask yourself that question and you got to get back to it."

The Black Line serves as a metaphor for maintaining focus and consistency in business practices. Michelle relates it to her method of sending one message a day, illustrating how unwavering commitment can transform a business within a year.

Dispelling Myths: Truths and Lies About Social Media Marketing

Michelle critiques prevalent social media strategies that prioritize virality and templated content. She argues that such approaches often lead to audience indifference rather than genuine engagement.

[28:27] Michelle: "If that's all you care about and if that's where you stop... you're going to end up calling me."

She advocates for deeper, more meaningful content that fosters authentic connections and drives business growth, moving beyond superficial metrics to focus on impactful interactions.

Practical Implementation: Building Your Engagement Tracker

Michelle provides a step-by-step guide for listeners to implement her 1-Message-a-Day system:

1. Build a Spreadsheet:

   • Organize potential contacts into categories based on desired outcomes.
   • Allocate specific days of the week to focus on different categories to maintain structure and prevent scatter.

2. Stay in Your Lane:

   • Avoid the trap of "shiny object syndrome" by adhering to a consistent, strategic approach.
   • Allocate a minimal amount of time each day (5-10 minutes) to send out messages, ensuring daily commitment without overwhelming your schedule.

3. Crafting Effective Messages:

   • Personalize each message by leveraging mutual connections.
   • Include a strong call to action to increase the likelihood of a response.

   [15:44] Michelle: "The reason I say that is because some people, when they have a hard time with it, they're doing it half ass backwards."

Success Stories and Lessons Learned

Michelle recounts a success story of a client named Tim, who struggled with engagement despite implementing her strategies. The key takeaway was the importance of crafting compelling messages that immediately convey value and include a clear call to action.

[23:02] Michelle: "The first message is everything."

She also shares insights from her keynote presentations, emphasizing the critical role of strategic engagement and consistency in overcoming market challenges.

Announcement: "The Black Line" Book

Michelle proudly announces her upcoming book, "The Black Line," scheduled for release in early August 2025. The book delves deeper into her strategies and personal experiences, offering a comprehensive guide for professionals aiming to transform their businesses through intentional social media engagement.

[53:38] Michelle: "If you'd like to be on the pre-order list, DM me the word 'book'."

Final Thoughts and Encouragement

In her concluding remarks, Michelle reinforces the significance of daily, intentional prospecting to secure leads and transform business operations. She encourages listeners to define their own Black Line and commit to consistent action.

[50:21] Michelle: "The Black Line is you must prospect every single day with intentionality. You must send one message without fail to someone that you do not know through leverage. And you will not be in the same position that you currently are in 365 days."

Jeff wraps up the episode by urging listeners to implement Michelle's framework and connect with her on social media to stay updated on her book release.

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Connect with Michelle

• Instagram: Michelle Burman Michael
• LinkedIn: Michelle Burman Michael
• Facebook: Michelle Burman Michael

For those interested in Michelle's book, "The Black Line," follow her on social media and DM her the word "book" to join the pre-order list and receive updates on the release date.

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of Michelle Burman Michael's insights on leveraging social media for business growth, her personal journey, and the actionable strategies she offers to mortgage professionals seeking to enhance their marketing efforts.

Transcript

[A]

Michelle, welcome back to the show.

[B]

Thank you for having me. This is special, being with you in person.

[C]

Yes, very.

[A]

You're in Vegas.

[B]

Feels very full circle for me.

[A]

We're both here at the Mastermind Summit.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is the first time we're meeting IRL in real life. Is that cheesy to say now? I don't know, but yeah. Because we've known each other since 2019. Right.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

That was when you were first on the podcast, I believe.

[B]

Second podcast I was ever on was you in 2019.

[A]

Well, we're glad to have you back. And it's a rare air where somebody comes back for the third time.

[B]

I feel honored.

[A]

So you know what I mean? So just because you have a lot of value to offer. So let's do this. Let's jump right in right away. For anybody who doesn't know, what would you like to say that you help people do on social media?

[B]

Great question. So I teach mortgage and real estate professionals how to understand the power of leverage to create opportunity through social. So this is not about virality, this is not about how we get more followers. How do we do any of that stuff, which I'm sure we'll unpack. It's really about understanding that that stuff doesn't pay our bills. It's very cliche saying, right, that likes don't pay our bills. But what really does is creating value, because creating value creates opportunity. But I have some. Some ways we can talk about that. But at the end of the day, the long story short is teaching mortgage and real estate professionals, and really entrepreneurs in general, how to outbound prospect through the social channels. The big three, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn, which I'm sure we can unpack a little bit. As far as, you know, how does that work? And are they different? Because yes, they. The answer is, yes, they are. But understanding what leverage means when you're looking at social, because most people will say, yes, I get business from Instagram, or yes, I get business from social, or yes, I try to get business. Right, because you have two buckets, some that do and some that don't. But most of the time, the people that are coming to me are very much so in that bucket of. I've been putting time and effort and energy into this and nothing's happening. And I feel like I'm missing something. And so that's where understanding leverage and understanding outbound prospecting through social really comes into play.

[A]

Okay, so there's a couple nuggets in there I want to unpack for sure. But Let me first tackle this. When people come to you, you said they're missing something. Is there a pattern you see or top one or two things?

[B]

Absolutely. Like two biggest things. Number one question is I ha. I can't seem to grow, can't figure out why I'm not growing my audience. Correct. Which is the attachment to virality.

[C]

Right.

[B]

They're attached to how many followers they have. They feel like followers create this. Oh well, I've grown so that means I'm doing good.

[A]

So that's. You think that's a mistake?

[B]

I don't think it's a mistake. I think it's the wrong question. So I'm not saying that that doesn't matter.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But I'm simply saying that that's not what we're in it for. You know, if you look at my social, I have 12 and a half thousand followers. But that's been since 2018.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So it's been a long six years, seven years almost to get from. I don't know what I started with like 900.

[A]

Well, we all started zero. Right.

[B]

To get to. Yeah, I mean I, I converted a personal one into a business one nine year or eight years ago and decide, hey, I'm gonna do this thing. And that takes a lot of time.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But the, the point is, is so again, I'm not saying it's wrong to care about that, but that question of I want to grow my following is not the right question to be asking when it comes to how do I make social work for me. That's my point. Second big question is, Michelle, I'm not getting any engagement. Like I, I feel like my content's good but nothing's happening and I just feel like all I do is create content and, and I know my videos are fun or I have this every Friday or I do this type of content every whatever day and it's so fun for me to do, but I feel like no one's seeing it. And that's a super common question. And so that then in turn creates two questions that I ask them, which we can talk about.

[A]

Well, yeah, I was going to ask you naturally, if that's the wrong question, what's the right question?

[B]

Yeah, so when they asked me that, there's two follow up questions that I have of them. Number one, are you sending a message to someone every single day that you don't know?

[C]

Right.

[B]

So the engagement question becomes a big conversation and you know, this is like a broken record for me because I swear I say it every single time. But it's so important. Are you sending a message to someone that you do not know every single day through one of the big three platforms? Or frankly, if you're newer to this, doing it through all three.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Meaning sending someone a message to someone you don't know on Facebook, a message to someone you don't know on Instagram, and a message to someone that you don't know on LinkedIn. Now, who that is is another part of this conversation, but doing that, Are you sending a message every single day to someone that you do not know through one of the big three platforms?

[A]

I'm going to guess most of the time the answer is no.

[B]

100%. Very rarely is it a yes. I would say 99.7. And yes, I'm making that number up. But 99.7 people. Percent of people are going to say no to that. Second question is, are you breadcrumbing? So, meaning are you creating exposure for yourself in a hyper local environment? And that's almost always no, too. And what breadcrumbing means is we're commenting on content that is hyper local to where we want to be. So if you're a real estate agent, if you're a mortgage professional, if you're an entrepreneur, you know, selling sourdough bread in a local city.

[C]

Right.

[B]

The idea is, are you creating a breadcrumbing trail for people to find you and follow you? Now, some people will say yes to that. Some people will say, well, yeah, I like, and comment on things here and there. But the problem is that there's zero strategy. They just sort of wake up one morning and they're like, I'm just going to comment on 10 people's content. And there's a lot of those strategies out there.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'm sure you've heard of them. 10, 10 and 10 and all that stuff. Not bad. But again, we have to create structure around it and we have to create intentionality. My favorite way of describing it is strategic alliances and strategic ways of looking at something that says, is this serving me? And understanding what my outcome or what the outcome is that I want. Which, ironically, we're here at Mastermind Summit, and that's a big part of my keynote tomorrow.

[A]

Oh, awesome. All right. Lots of things I want to chase down here. Let's go back to. Are you DMing? How many was it? At least one.

[B]

At least one.

[A]

At least one person. So who do we DM and what do we say?

[B]

Yeah, strategic alliances. That's why I use that phrase.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So the way I look at it, And I'll say this, like, as simple as possible every morning when I wake up and I say, I have one job today, which is to send a single message to someone that I do not know. I ask myself, who could that be based off of relationships that I have, Right? So who am I leveraging to get to that new relationship?

[A]

Just like six degrees of Kevin Bacon or whatever.

[B]

And like, yeah, I mean, I guess, but in my mind, it's. I have this amazing relationship with Jeff Zimfer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who does he know that I don't know?

[C]

Right.

[B]

And who. Who has Jeff? Like, the way my brain would work is if Jeff is one of my levers, Right. Someone I can leverage. Then I look at his profile and I say, who has he recently tagged himself with? Who has he recently been present with? Who has. What event has he been at that I maybe haven't spoken at? Maybe I haven't been a part of. Maybe there's somebody there that runs something that he has a really good relationship with that I can create an opportunity out of it for myself. Now, what that opportunity is, you have to have a very clear delineation between what am I, what's my goal of sending this message, and what do I want the outcome to be?

[C]

Right?

[B]

So I have three buckets, podcasting, webinars, and in person speaking gigs. All three of those things create the result that I want, which is a lead for myself, right? So one single daily act in one of three or with one of three goals equals what I need at the end of the day to put money, money in my bank account, which is a lead.

[A]

So your outcomes are podcasting, webinars, and speaking engagements, Correct. That's what you hoped. That's your ultimate North Star, Correct?

[B]

If you're a mortgage professional, honestly, those. All three of those things could be the same exact as mine, right? You should be getting. I had this conversation at lunch today. If you're a mortgage professional in our business right now, your goal has to be one too many, not one to one. Not saying one to one isn't important and not saying our time together right now is not insanely valuable, but if you want to grow right now, it's got to be one too many. A very good friend of ours, Cindy Ertman, she did an amazing presentation on the concept of one to many for a mortgage professional that's in the trenches right now. What does that look like? So again, if you're a mortgage professional, listening to us right now, how do you go one to many through social, you find an opportunity that is going to get you in front of a mass population that could be teaching to an entire real estate office that could be teaching. You know, if you can teach ce, great. You know, and again, you got to get over your fear of public speaking. But that's another conversation which I'm still petrified of. Public speaking, you just wouldn't know. Lots of box breathing behind, behind the stage. But. And hopefully no one can feel that when I come out. But, um, so, yeah, one. One goal every day, which creates one of. Or which falls into one of three buckets, which creates the ultimate outcome, which is the opportunity for me. So if you're a mortgage professional, it could be a realtor relationship. So your goal is a realtor relationship. Your goal is a vendor partnership, financial planner, cpa, divorce attorney, whatever it might be. And your goal could be the office branch manager of a big real estate office team, or getting on podcasts. Like, honestly, a mortgage professional listening to this has more buckets than I do. If you really think about it. They have even more opportunities that they can go find. But again, the key is being very strategic about who you're trying to do that with.

[A]

So a podcast would, for example, be. If I'm a loan officer and I'm here in Vegas, I might want to find a real estate agent who's hosting a podcast or a local, you know, local oriented podcast, like what's happening in Vegas or something that would be relevant for me.

[B]

Find. Find somebody who interviews local and small businesses in your.

[C]

Right, Right.

[B]

I have a mortgage friend who lives in Kansas City. He started a podcast and all he does is he interviews business owners all across the city. Of. All across the city.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And small business owners, big bit. He interviews basketball players, you know, football players, like college, college team kids. Just creating a really cool show that locals borrowers in Kansas City would want to listen to.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So if you think about it that way, if you're a real estate agent, you're gonna want on that show.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So that creates the lead comes to him.

[A]

Sure. Yeah.

[B]

So it's exposure. I could unpack that, but.

[A]

All right, well, that's. That's good. Let's keep going. So we talked about. Let me ask you this. There are people listening as, you know, and. Or watching who need help, starting with the who. So, meaning there are people like, if I don't have the who, if I don't know, like, you know, I mean, I want to be strategic with who I'm going to contact. Can I also just do some search functionality on instagram or wherever to find some of my target people.

[B]

Yeah. So the way I will tell you to do it is build a spreadsheet. I build them for all of our clients when they're going through this part of our program. Five days of the week. Each of the five days you have a different category.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So when you wake up in the morning, you look at that and you say, this is the. This is the lane I'm staying in. No pun intended, for foreshadowing. You got different lanes. Right. You're. And you stay in your lane because we're talking about something which is a very cliche term, but it is so popular in the social realm, which is shiny object syndrome.

[C]

Right.

[B]

It's very easy to get on Instagram or to get on LinkedIn and get on Facebook and be like, what the heck did I just do for two hours? So for me, I don't have that kind of time. I got a very busy schedule and a very full day. And I have a four year old. So you guys do the math.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I don't have that kind of time, so I have to be very strategic about where I'm spending my time on that day. So if I have one opportunity and. Or if I have one message to send, I have three buckets of what the outcome is. And with one result that I'm after.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Now, all of those three for me are very strategically one to many on purpose.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Because a podcast is one to many, a webinar is one to many, a speaking engagement is one to many. Now, if you're a mortgage professional, one of your days could be office real estate offices. So who are the people who are running those offices? Now you could say I'm going to go find the office on Instagram, I'm going to go find the office on LinkedIn. But I would tell you to go to the person that runs the office, not the office page. Why? Because most likely it's ran by, you know, a social media manager or somebody, and it's not your gatekeeper.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you have it. Maybe you have a day in your tracker where your only goal is office owners.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And find the people. You probably know the names.

[A]

So it's like identify people of leverage as well, of influence. Right.

[B]

Well, you're going to have to identify your own personal levers. That's step number one.

[A]

Right?

[C]

Right.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But we've already named a number of people in your backyard as a loan officer. Listening to this, right now we've named broker owners, team leads, office. You know all the people, the financial advisors, people run a podcast.

[B]

But leavers, let's be clear, levers are people you could name drop because you have a relationship with them for certain people.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So leavers are your bridge.

[A]

So if I'm dming you, give me an example in real life.

[B]

So if you're and you.

[A]

And I know Cindy, you're not, but I don't know you, you're.

[B]

Okay, so let's. I'm going to flip it because I. Or else I'm going to get myself confused. I don't know you, but I know Cindy. I look at Cindy's Instagram every single day. I look at Cindy's LinkedIn every single day. She tags herself with this person. I'm like, who is that person? I don't know. So I click on that person's profile. Who are you? What is your role? What do you do? Oh, my gosh. You're also connected to this person. This person. This person. I consume your content for all of a minute and a half. I can do it pretty quickly. And then I send you a message saying, clout a little bit. I have to make sure that you're like, oh, Michelle's the real deal. But usually the way I do it is based off of someone that you know that I know, you know that I've done something for.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I'm looping that into the message.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But then I'm name dropping our lever, which in this case, we're using Cindy as. As a fun example, I would name drop Cindy to you, and Cindy would then say most likely to you. If you reached out to her directly, she would back me up.

[A]

What would you. What would you. I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but let's keep going. What would you say? Give me some context of like, yeah.

[B]

Like, hey, Jeff, I saw you had an amazing episode with Cindy Ertman recently on your show. She's one of my absolute favorite people. I actually recently had her on my show. I have a really cool podcast that I interview people only that are using social as a prospecting tool or as part of their prospecting for their companies. I would love to get on a call with you or zoom with you and see if there's some synergy between the two of us, because I have a podcast. You have a podcast. It might be fun.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[B]

And then I would end it with a pretty strong call to action, which is a big issue for a lot of people. But instead of just saying, hey, are you free next week? I'm going to say, hey, Jeff, like, do you got some time on Monday? My morning is a little open between 10 and 10 and 12, so. All right, so that's nailing it down.

[A]

That's the who, that's the what to say as an example in there. And you're clearly right out of the gate going for a call to action, which you just mentioned. Some people have a hard time with. What do you.

[B]

The reason I say that is because some people, when they have a hard time with it, they're doing it half ass backwards. I hope I can say it like that. So you can see a preview of a message that someone's sending you to you.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And, and especially on Instagram or like, if I'm on my cell phone and I get. I know that I got a message, I can like swipe down without clicking on it and I can see the.

[A]

Opening gist of what it is.

[B]

Yeah. So most and I had a client who did this and I swear it was like the biggest unlock for him. So we set him free to go prospect. We taught him all the things, taught him leverage. He had done a great job at listing out his levers. Crushed it on that side of the assignment. So we're like, great, Tim. His name is Tim. You're free. You can go prospect. Do it. He sends us an email, sends me an email. About a week Later, I sent 17 messages, Michelle, and not a single one of them has responded. And a lot of them have left me on read, meaning they've read it and haven't responded. And the ones that I got a couple of responses that were auto replies. And I said, great, okay, so we have an issue here. Let's get on Zoom. He's a coaching client of mine. Let's get on Zoom. Get on Zoom. I ask him to show me the messages. I want to read them. The very first sentence of his message was, hey, Jeff, I'd love to get on a call with you next week. Insert the rest right. He did a great job with leverage. He name dropped the right person. He created some clout in the middle of the message. But I didn't get to the middle of the. I didn't even get to that.

[A]

Yeah, exactly right. So pitch from. From the first word right away.

[B]

And how many of those do we get on LinkedIn every single day? How many of those do we get on Instagram every single day? So again, how you frame this is very, very important. Hey, Jeff, my name is Michelle Burma. Michael, I know you probably have never heard of me and that's totally okay. But I just saw you had Cindy on your podcast. Cindy's been on mine. You love Cindy. You now most likely are going to feel real weird and guilty almost if you don't respond to me.

[A]

That's the power of association. Yeah, yeah, I like that.

[B]

But the framing of the message can be done.

[A]

Yeah, framing is super bad. It's very important because, yeah, it's that first three seconds, and it's probably even less than that when you're seeing just that truncated message.

[B]

So step one is, who are your levers? Who are the people that you can confidently name, drop and use quote unquote to get to create a bridge to the next person?

[A]

So levers. You want to keep going?

[B]

No. Go.

[A]

No. What's next after levers?

[B]

Oh, oh, yeah. So who are your levers? Step number two, right. Is what are the categories that you need to be pitching quote, unquote in? Or what are the categories, as I mentioned for me, right. What are the goals that I'm trying.

[A]

To accomplish, which is podcast webinars and speaking engagements.

[B]

Correct. And every loan officer, every real estate person, any entrepreneur. You and me are very similar, most likely. Honestly, yours. You and me might be identical in that sense, because you should be getting on other people's podcasts, too. You have your own. It's the easiest in.

[C]

Yeah, Right.

[B]

You've interviewed a ton of people. I don't know how many hundreds of episodes you have.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But those are levers for you based off of the relationships you have to get to the next one for you to go on their show or for you to go on a show that that person you've interviewed has been on that you haven't been on.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So step number one, find your lever. Step number two is categorize your outcomes. Right. What do you want out of it? So that's where the Excel spreadsheet, or that's where, like your. I call it the engagement tracker.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Having your five days of the week, what categories are you putting in each of those five days? And then your daily act, which is kind of. Step three here is sending one message to someone in each of those categories every day and doing it ideally through.

[A]

Leverage, seems like an easy system to follow. Right. Levers, categories, outcomes.

[B]

Seems simple. But why do. Why does nobody do it?

[A]

Well, I think a lot of people haven't put it in a proper structure and framework. Number one, I think a lot of people get on. You said this earlier. We get on social media, the first thing we do is we get lost. We get scattered. We're not, your word. Intentional. We're taking down the same rabbit.

[B]

We just live in a noisy noise.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Space.

[A]

Yeah. And all of a sudden you're like, oh, my gosh, like that video. And, you know, 12 minutes later, you're like, what the hell I get on here for? Right?

[B]

Or what was I supposed to be doing right now?

[A]

Right. But I think that's the first. First and foremost, key takeaway is the category. You know, the structure you just laid out, number one. But really the bigger overarching is be intentional and actually block this on your calendar.

[B]

Very strategic about who you're. Who you're doing it with. So that you can only designate. Because people ask me, well, how long should I, you know, give this? Every day, I spend 5 minutes, 10 minutes a day doing it total. That's it. Now I don't have to, like, just so we're clear, I don't have to breadcrumb anymore. So I do want to get into the breadcrumbing side of things.

[A]

That's where I want to go.

[B]

Because I'm in a different place in my career than I was when I first met you in 2019. In 2019, I had to send that message. I had to breadcrumb my butt off.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And, you know, it feels very full. I'm going to do my best not to cry, but I'm a very emotional person in general. But meeting you in 2019, being the second podcast I was ever on, what an honor. Right? At the time. But you don't understand that that became the next one for me. Became the next one for me, because I understood that I now had leverage. I had built it.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So sometimes you have to get the first one, and that's hard for some people. But every. Even me back in 2019, I knew how to create leverage. I just had to get turned down a few times in order to get the one yes.

[A]

You should expect to be turned down, by the way, 100%. Yeah.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And I was brand new into the mortgage space. I was this young girl that people were like, who are you and what's your message? And I remember the first podcast I was. I was ever on. I will say I got turned down six times before I got a yes. And once I got the yes, he even told me, he said, you know, at the very least, let's record it, see how you do, and if. If it turns out good, I'll publish it. Yeah, I don't. I didn't think he was going to publish it. I was Like, I remember getting off of it and just being like, did I do okay? Was that, was that fine? Was I valuable? Like, you know, all the imposter syndrome type questions, he posts it, he actually releases it into the world. Six months later, I get a message from him saying, hey, I've been following you and watching what you're doing, and you're doing what I told you to do. And I was like, well, thanks. Because, yeah, like, I'm in it to win it, quote, unquote. Right. Like, I want to grow my company.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But getting the first one's hard and, but once you get it. And what's crazy is most people and you know, we're in this conference together, there's 500 people in there, every single one of those people. If you and I sat down with them and asked them, hey, who do you have in your life that you could name drop right now to create a relationship with someone that you don't know? It would take somebody a second. Probably. Yeah, you shouldn't take more than a.

[A]

Second because you probably have looking at one right now. But.

[B]

Yeah, but, but exactly, exactly. Right, so. But those people would probably need the marinade on. On for just a second. But we are walking around with levers in our life every single day.

[A]

Yeah, that's such a good point. And of course, it reminds me of the book who, not How. Right. I don't know if you remember that part.

[B]

I do, but breadcrumbing, just real, very quickly. Breadcrumbing is leaving a trail everywhere.

[A]

Yeah, unpack that a little bit.

[B]

So breadcrumbing is very simple. Instead of one to one messaging, which is what I'm talking about, sending one message every day to somebody you don't know, which takes five, seven minutes max. You're in the Starbucks line, your pickup line, waiting to pick up your kid. There's zero excuse to not do it. And anybody that has one, get an executive assistant or hire someone to clean your house for you. So you have five minutes a day. But breadcrumbing is one too many on social.

[C]

Right?

[B]

So that means I'm com. And you and I do this on LinkedIn all day, every day, Right? We are like commenting on other people's content and then you wake up and you're like, oh, I have seven friend requests on LinkedIn. Why does that happen? Because I'm breadcrumbing. I'm leaving a trailer of Michelle comments on people that I love and trust and their content. You post something of value and I like what you post. I comment on it. Someone else who doesn't know who I am sees it. Who's this Michelle chick? Well, I love Jeff, so who's the, Who's Michelle? They obviously have a friendship comment on it. Now I have a new friend request or a new follower request or whatever you want to call it. That's called breadcrumbing. So doing that every day. I do it on LinkedIn pretty heavily now because I've been putting a lot of emphasis on LinkedIn in the last six months. For me personally, Instagram is always going to be my favorite platform. It just truly is. But LinkedIn is a place where I haven't put a lot of energy over the years that I now see an opportunity there for me with where I'm currently at in my career, especially with a book coming out that I'm trying to focus on. But breadcrumbing is that one to many act. Now it could be 10 comments a day, it could be 20. But doing it intentionally on people's content where if someone sees the comment, the relationship is clear.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'm not going to just comment on someone that I've never heard of them ever in my life without spending a few minutes understanding who they are so that I can leave an intelligent comment. Because at the end of the day, yeah, I want that new person to see my comment that doesn't know me because that's an end to a new person. But I, I could totally go on a 20 minute tangent on this, but I'll stop there and just say it's a name trail.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And if you're doing it on Instagram, it's the same concept if you're a mortgage professional trying to create real estate agent relationships in a local town or in a state for that matter. Who are some of the top agents? Great. This is a great example. Who are some of the top agents in your area that are using social? Well, they don't need to be the highest producing, they need to be using social relatively well. Now why is that impactful? Because likely other Realtors are looking at that Realtor saying, wow, this Realtor is killing it on, on social. I'm going to try to learn something from them and they're going to see your comment. Yeah, don't go sending. I had, I did this, I, I did a keynote for a sales rally for a mortgage company recently and it was a two day thing. So day number one was like breakout sessions. Day number two was like the main keynote. And in the breakout sessions I was talking about creating these connections and like Doing breadcrumbing, finding mutual relationships, all this stuff. And it was an hour like training, right? Next day I'm in the keynote segment and a, in the Q A, a lady raises her hand and she's like, michelle, I did what you said to do Yesterday. I sent 200 friend requests. But here's what happened is I got shut down. Like Instagram shut me down. And I was like, that is not what I said to do. Let's be clear. But good on her, right? She was doing, she was taking action and trying to implement what I was saying. But again, you can do it. You can certainly do it wrong.

[A]

Quick, hot take. You're talking about the commenting thing and I agree. And I would think most people would understand this by now, but most of the commenting would you agree still is pretty weak.

[B]

Oh, it's horrible. It's a drive by, right?

[A]

I mean, it's so annoying.

[B]

Don't just DM me with a heart to my story and expect me to respond because there's nothing for me to respond to there.

[A]

Or they use the, the, the, the trunk, the, the templated responses. Like on LinkedIn, people do this all the, you know how they pre. Populate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that was great. Awesome. You know what I mean? It's just like boom and go.

[B]

Clearly put no thought or energy into it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So what would you like to tell people about that? About, like, if you're gonna really like, think about this, it's engagement. You know what I mean? What does that mean?

[B]

It means like, you and I both have a great mutual friend, Grant Wise. He was my coach for many, many years and I absolutely love him. But what I can tell you is he taught me something that will live with me forever, which is live in the land of curiosity. Always.

[C]

Right.

[B]

What does that mean? That means ask more questions than statements.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So live in this land of. Well, tell me about that. Like asking questions about it. And when you're leaving a comment, you're not necessarily wanting to ask a question per se, but when you're in a one to one DM conversation, the worst thing you can do is send a sounds good, thanks, period or awesome, cool period exclamation point and expect for the person on the receiving end of your message to actually do anything with it. Because I always think of this as if you give a statement, do I have a reason to reply? Is there any meat there for me to reply to? In most cases, no. But if you ask a question, you can ask weird questions that will likely get one word answers. But we won't unpack that for now, but just live in this world of more questions because the curiosity, it almost makes the person again on the receiving and say, I feel like a butthead if I don't respond to this because this person's obviously putting time into it.

[A]

And they very rarely get somebody who's truly curious as well.

[B]

But I'll tell you, that first message is everything.

[A]

Yeah. All right, let's change it up here a little bit.

[C]

You.

[A]

You've just laid out an awesome framework that anybody can take and implement in their own business to grow their, you know, followers, to grow their engagement, to lead to relationships.

[B]

Ultimately, more importantly, followers is. Is a total residual.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Or meaning like a. An after effect of all of this. What I ultimately want every one of my clients to do, anybody listening to this, if, even if they never hire me or never hire another coach for this, is sending one message a day, every day for 365 days. Your business will not look the same as it does right now. That is not a theory. That is not a hypothesis. That is like a freaking fact.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I feel like you can attest to what you've seen me accomplish over the last five years and understand that that is fact.

[A]

Well, just imagine that in the real world, if you met a single person every day, right. For three, I mean, at the end of the year. Right. Nobody's really actually doing that in real life, but you can on social media.

[B]

You can and you should for sure.

[A]

All right, so let's. Let's. You want to get a little spicy?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Want to mix it up?

[B]

I'm in.

[A]

Before we hit record, we talked. We started talking about this concept of truth and lies in social media. Right. We just shared some truths. What do you think is a bunch of out there or lies that you want to set the record straight?

[B]

Oh, how? I want to start carefully. I want to tread lightly.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But there are a lot of people that are selling the wrong thing to the mortgage world, to the real estate world, to the entre, anybody who's trying to use social. And I see it every single freaking day when I open Instagram or when I open LinkedIn.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Which is here's all these cool viral hooks to help your videos go viral, or here's the best way to make seven second reels that are going to like all that stuff.

[A]

Right?

[C]

Right.

[B]

And I'm not saying that those are not good things.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'm not saying that I haven't learned a ton of those things and have implemented some of those Things. What I am saying is that if that's all you care about and if that's where you stop, meaning, like you create content in that mindset and then that's where you stop, you're going to end up calling me. You're going to end up calling another person that.

[A]

You mean if you stop at the hook, meaning it's just like, okay, you got them there, but what's next?

[B]

Correct. Meaning, like, where's the depth?

[C]

Right.

[B]

Whereas, though, like, who is this person and why would I hire them versus the person creating the content is just very focused on. So you just Virality, virality. Like, they're just missing the point.

[A]

You just said something there. Most people don't really think about. Why would I hire you? Most people are posting on social media. Kind of what you talked about a moment ago with no intention, with just the fact that I feel I need to be there. I don't know what the hell I'm doing, but I just better post some or else I'm gonna miss out.

[B]

It's like the downloadable social media content calendar off the Internet, right? National Chocolate Day. National.

[A]

Those were hot for a while, man.

[B]

It was. But that, but that's my point is I really, truly believe, and I'm a God person, so forgive me, but I really believe I was put on this planet to have a very big voice. And I feel like I have finally found it. And I think part of that is understanding that you've got to call a bluff or call a spade a spade. And that stuff is great. Having a content strategy is great, but there is a much better way that ultimately leads to what we truly really need and care about. And the root of that is being a real human being. But what I want to say is these sample content calendars are good if you have no freaking clue how to get the first post out, right? If you're in this, like, I'm just like, paralyzed and not sure where to start. It gets you flowing.

[A]

At least you're flexing some muscles.

[B]

It's getting you flowing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you got, as Cindy said today on stage, it's putting reps in, Right? You're putting reps in. But where the real, real change happens and where the real value happens is my content strategy. And when Michelle Verman Michael makes content, I take a relationship like this, a conversation like this, that I just had a meeting, I just had, and I create content based off of that, right? Why? Because you and I are having a really cool conversation right now. And the first thing, one of the Many things, actually. But the first thing that came to my mind is, hold on, how do I turn this into a post based off of how you cued me up on this podcast, Right? So I'm reverse engineering and you'll hear me talk about this a lot when it comes to what we're. We'll get to. But I reverse engineer every conversation, I process it and I say, so Jeff's my ideal audience. And for those who are watching, you saw me, I just close my eyes. But that's like literally what I do is I sit there and I say, how do I reverse engineer this and create a piece of content that is going to add value and credibility to me for the next one versus I'm just going to go create content to create content, But I don't really know who I'm serving. Whereas, like, I know you're who I want to be serving. I know that you know the next podcast that I want to get on, I want to make sure I have a little bit of a different message or a secondary message, right? So I'm like, how do I take this conversation and create content that will then get a yes when I ask for another podcast or help confirm I'm going to get the yes for the next speaking gig or whatever it might be?

[A]

So, so when you say reverse engineer, you're thinking like, even from the, the caption, the thumbnail, what maybe the text that's on the thumb, the whole thing.

[B]

I'm thinking like, what even is the content I'm about to make? Now I have pillars, right, Which I. Everybody needs to have kind of categorically like some ideas of what type of content they should be producing. Me example Value series is the number one, most important one that I teach in my world. I coined the term back in 2019. It's essentially a five part video series where you combine passions and pain points. What are some of the things you enjoy doing outside of work? How do you combine that with the pain point of your ideal client?

[C]

Right?

[B]

So if you are one of my ideal clients, hypothetically podcast host, what pain points does a podcast host have about who they want on their show? And then how can I use this to create a caption and a piece of content that says to the next podcast host who reaches out or who sees my content, hey, Michelle's not just going to come on my show and talk fluff. Yeah, Michelle's going to get deep and real and. And that's the type of guest that I want, right? So the pain point for podcast guests in most cases is they don't just want a guest for the sake of getting a guest.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I get emails all the time. Hey, Michelle, we have this great person for your. Your podcast. Delete.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like that's not what I want.

[A]

Right. For sure.

[B]

So I reverse engineer what the actual piece of content is. Value series is just one of the four based off of a pillars or the pillars.

[A]

Okay. I think that's, that's, you know, in terms of truth and lies, that's probably a good one. A takeaway.

[B]

Another lie. If I can just be super fast about it.

[A]

Go ahead. Yeah.

[B]

And candidates.

[A]

Hot take. Go ahead.

[B]

Is the in house marketing stuff has got to stop.

[A]

What do you mean? The templated cliches. Corporate. Here's what's happening with the market.

[B]

Forgive me for ruffling feathers, but I've been known to do so.

[A]

No, never.

[B]

I've been known to do so, but I had an amazing meeting a couple days ago.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Actually right before I came to Vegas with a leader of a large mortgage company. And she's like, michelle, I think you're, you're the reason I'm going to let go of the in house marketing team.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I said I don't want anyone to lose their job. That's not what I said.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I just think that that 50, $55,000 position, whatever you're paying the lady or gentleman at the front desk or to help, you know, all of the. And there's a mutual friend of ours that I won't name names right now, but I'm going to tell you off air because it just made me remember it. She was a great example of a very, very valuable human being that had a ton of knowledge, but she was so stuck in this role that she wasn't allowed to help individual loan officers create an individual identity.

[C]

Right.

[B]

She wasn't allowed to do that because they didn't give her the Runway.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So she wanted to. She felt like she was in a straitjacket and she was making $55,000 a year for a company that should have been paying her 100 grand to have more time or to give her more freedom to support these loan officers on an individual level. So this company that I had a meeting with, the woman said to me, michelle, I'm going to let those people go. And I want you to come in as a fractional leader and just coach this team on what to do. And then we're gonna hire someone like you to be full time in the office. And I want you to, to coach Them I was just like completely blown away by the conversation and honored. But at the end of the day I was like, I don't want anybody to lose their job.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They just need to do it differently.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. She can probably be trained a thousand percent, but.

[B]

But again, the company isn't supporting the training or the growth. They're saying, hey, this in house marketing content is better than nothing. And this is a voltimore word I'm, I'm doing. I think you'll be at Momentum Builder later this year, right? I'm doing a keynote at Momentum Builder on indifference. And so that's, that's where I'll go here for just a moment. That in house marketing content in the company's mind is we're checking the social media box. Go us. But what happens is all you're doing is creating a massive amount of indifference in your audience. Because if you look at a mortgage company, how many of those los that work for that company all have the exact same shit?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And we see it every single day. But nobody wants to call the bluff. And I'm calling the bluff because it's got to stop.

[A]

It's not helping.

[B]

Indifference. What does indifference mean? Indifference essentially means I don't care enough to say yes, but I also don't care enough to say no. So I'm kind of like me, I could go either way. But how do we overcome indifference? Or why does it even happen in the first place? Is action is drive or driven by emotion. I said that backwards. But action is driven by this sort of tug or emotional feeling. And if I don't feel anything, I don't care. There's no sense of urgency. There's no decision that needs to be made. There's no, like, oh my gosh, like, wow, Jeff, I didn't know that about you. Holy smokes. Like, I want to know your more of your story. Great example. When we watch like the TV shows Love island, which is like this big part, I don't watch it at all, but I have a ton of girlfriends that watch it. And I used to watch the Bachelor and the Bachelorette way back in the day. I run a company and have a four year old. You don't got time for that anymore. But for me, the biggest thing about that and why that's important is when we watch those shows, what happens, right? We all, we immediately go and we try to follow them all on social. We're like, oh my gosh, like, I want to know what's going on with this person or going on with that person. And that's an emotional driven decision. One of my favorite shows is Alone, the TV show on Netflix. I think it's on Netflix mostly, but if you're not familiar with the show, they basically pick 10 to 12 people, they drop you in the middle of nowhere. One of my favorite seasons was they picked 12 people and they put them in the middle of nowhere in Patagonia. And you have nothing but your backpack. And then you get a list of things and you can choose 12 things off the list that you get to bring with you. And that's literally it. No food, no water, nothing.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And they drop you in this random ass place. You have to make your own shelter, find your own food. And the idea is the last person standing wins a million dollars. But the key is, or the interesting part of it is you have no idea when someone else drops out. So you have no Clue if there's 10 people left, four people left. Like, you just don't know.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So you truly have to be the last man standing by pure grit and determination and desire.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And frankly, discipline and knowledge and all of those other things. But mental game has to be there, all that stuff. I always joke, my husband was a Green Beret and I was like, baby would crush that. And he's like, I have a four year old now, babe. I wouldn't be able to do that. But before we had kids, I bet he would have been just fine. Because some. If you watch the dads, a lot of the dads struggle with, like being gone from their families on the show. Even though they're like badass dudes, they. They struggle with the emotional detachment from their family. But where I was going with all of that is what happens is we watch this show and the first thing we want to do is we want to go follow them on Instagram. Because we're like, what are they up to now?

[C]

Right.

[B]

That emotion is what drives action. So when you create in different type in house marketing content.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're basically telling everybody to go somewhere else.

[A]

Pretty much, yeah. There's no reason to connect or follow you. So, yeah, you pretty much don't exist. And we'll connect with somebody who might be a little more engaging with their.

[B]

Content on social, even if it's controversial.

[A]

Well, hey, controversy sells. All right, real quick, I want to make sure we make time to talk about this amazing accomplishment that you have. You're about to birth into the world. Not. Not a second child, right?

[B]

I wish, but.

[A]

No, but your book, right. The Black Line.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Tell me about the title and then whatever you want to share about the book. Why a book? Why now? What are you hoping to accomplish with the book?

[B]

I'm probably gonna cry, so forgive me.

[A]

We have tissues.

[B]

It's a very. We don't got water, though. I'll pretend I. The day I graduated from college, you probably remember seeing this video. I posted it on LinkedIn, but I was on another podcast episode, mutual friends of ours from the Knowledge Cube, and they had invited me up to Portland and I got to do this really amazing in person podcast with them that was like two and a half hours long. It was insane, but it was so fun. And they asked me this question. They're like, where did this come from? You know, like most people don't just wake up one morning and they're like, I'm gonna write a book today. Like, that's not typically how this happens. But the day I graduated from College back in 2012, I told my dad that day. And I remember it like just yesterday as if it had literally just happened. I said, dad, I'm gonna write a book someday. I have no idea what it's going to be about. I don't know what the title is going to be. I don't know what the point of. Is it autobiography? Is it non fiction? Is it. I have no clue. All I know is I feel like there's something in my body that has to come out. It's almost like this little girl that's screaming for something and I don't know what that is, right? I do now, but I didn't at the time. And so I said, dad, I'm gonna write a book someday. I have no idea what it is. I just feel like I have a voice and when I find it, I'm gonna let you know. And fast forward from 2012 to 2025 where we sit today. There are have been four very big storms in my life that I speak about very openly, one of which I've never spoken about, but I'm not afraid to. First and foremost was when I graduated from college, I retired from swimming, swam for 20 years, and I had a massive identity crisis. All of a sudden I went from. I've been an athlete literally since I was five years old. I had a coach, I had practice to be to I had something I had to do. Like I had a trajectory of where my life was going and all of a sudden that was taken away not because of any bad thing, but just I graduated from college and I was in the middle of a or four Years out from a quad, meaning I had a full four years before the next Olympics, which meant I was either gonna train for another four years and try to make Olympic trials and try to go to the Olympics, or I was gonna go get a job. And the reality of it is, I wasn't quite good enough to go to the Olympics. And I knew that, and I made that decision of today. I'm gonna go get a job. So I went through this big identity crisis. I ended up in a very unhealthy relationship after that that I. You know, I. We're still friends to this day. This particular gentleman and I are still friends, which is great. But I got very unhealthy physically. I had gained about 25, almost 30 pounds, which for I'm only 5 3. So that was a lot for a very small frame. And I had been shredded my whole life, right? So to go from that to. Not that. There was a day where my dad called me. I was living in Michigan at the time, and my dad called me, and he said, honey, are you sitting down? I'm like, no, dad, I'm getting ready to go. Like, what do you want? You know, like. And that was my first problem, as I should have shut up and, like, talk to my dad more. But my dad was like, honey, no, please sit down. I need to tell you something. And I was like, okay. So I'm. I was like, okay, dad, I'm sitting down. And he's like, honey, I have stage four non Hodgkin's lymphoma, and I have six months to live, and I was in Michigan. I hadn't been home since 2012 or 2008. I went to college in 2008. I hadn't been home since then. And it was 2014. So I'd been gone for, what is. Do my math, Six years. I felt like.

[A]

You hadn't seen your dad.

[B]

No, I hadn't been home. Meaning, like, I hadn't lived at home in six years. I'd seen my dad plenty of times, but I was always the girl who was like, I'm never moving back home. Like, I'm super independent. I went from Southern California growing up to Rutgers, which is as far away from home as I could possibly go without going out of the country. Very independent person. I always have been that way. Second child syndrome, maybe. I don't know. But my dad said that to me, and my whole world stopped. Everything stopped. I immediately got on my computer, tried looking for flights, and my dad said something to me, and I'll never Forget this ever, because how could you? He said, honey, yes, you can come home, we'll help you move home. Yes, I understand you want to be home with your dad, all that stuff, but what I actually really want is I want you to go find fitness again. And I'll never forget what he said, but he was like, I don't even care if it's badminton, just find something. And I was like, oh my gosh, dad.

[A]

Okay, at the moment, yeah, in the.

[B]

Moment, he was, he was truly just trying to get his daughter back to who she was and who she had always been. And so I remember getting in my car, driving to the ex boyfriend's house, which is stupid, but how many of us can relate to that? Driving to the ex boyfriend's house and I'm like, my gas light is on, I gotta get gas. So I stop in a parking lot or a gas station parking lot to get gas and I'm crying, mascara everywhere. Like I looked disastrous. And I noticed when I looked up waiting for the gas to fill that There was a CrossFit gym in the parking lot. And I had heard of CrossFit, I had lots of friends who had gotten into it after, after college from retiring from swimming. And I was like, I don't really know what that is, but I'm pretty fit, so whatever, I'll just walk in. So I walked into the CrossFit gym and I beeline to the back of the gym to the person who appeared to be in charge. And I said to the guy, I was like, I'm coming in tomorrow, I'm gonna start, I'm gonna be your best athlete. What time is class? Sure enough, I came back the next day, started CrossFit, and therein lies my next almost seven year journey with CrossFit. Became a very elite CrossFitter, almost went to the games and that in turn turned into storm number two for me. Storm number two, number three, number four, I'll, I'll skip two and three for sake of time and tell you that there was some suicide conversations happening in my life. There was a domestic abuse situation for me that turned into a five year relationship and leaving him 80 days before I got married, which cost my family $50,000. And then CrossFit was taken away from me because of the structure of going to the CrossFit Games. It had changed again. Another identity crisis which leads to the suicide conversation, which then in turn two months later leads to me meeting the love of my life and meeting my now husband. And fast forward to storm number four is I Last November, I lost our second baby. I'm trying not to cry in the middle of a miscarriage that took 14 months to create in the first place. God gave me the message. He gave me my voice. And I called a copywriter who I had been recommended to, and we had kind of had a couple of meetings, and I was like, I know that this is on my heart, but I'm not really sure. I'm not clear. But it's good to know you. It's good to have the contact. I called him and I said, steve, I'm ready. I got it. And there in turn, lies the creation of the black line. And the black line essentially documents four storms, but in parallel to how I've built my entire company, which is. The black line is a straight line on the bottom of a pool, right? If anyone has ever swam, you know that that is how you make sure you go the shortest distance from point A to point B. It also makes sure you don't veer off into someone else's lane. Shiny object syndrome, if you get. Also becomes that visual metronome where for me, in a lifelong relationship with untrustworthy people and. And other things that had happened to me personally over those years, the black line was really the only friend I had for a very long time. And so it was this trustworthy thing that if I just followed it, eventually I would get to the other side of. I would do a flip turn, turn around, and come back, and I would finish the race, literally, like the event I was swimming, right? So as it relates to work, when I had a miscarriage, I'll never forget this, but one of my very closest and best friends in this industry calls me the day after. Obviously, she knows that I'd miscarried, which was a very, very traumatic experience for us because it took six weeks for a doctor to diagnose that that was what was happening. So it was horrific. I. One in four women have miscarriages. And yes, I was a little over nine weeks, so I was by no means like full term or any of that, but doesn't take away from what happened or losing a baby that you fought so hard to make in the first place. But I'll never forget this. She calls me and she's like, michelle, you've gotten really far away from who you are. Like, in those six weeks, I couldn't work, obviously. I was barely prospecting. I didn't have enough money in the business bank account to make payroll again unless I went and found a bunch of money. Like, that's where I was at because I was so wildly depressed from going through this experience. So she says, michelle, you got to get back to who you are, and you are relentless, and you have to go back and be that person because she's in there.

[C]

Right?

[B]

And so that is the black line as it relates to the book. On the business side, which is the black line, in my mind, is the prospecting side of things. It is the. The black line or the prospecting aspect of modern sales.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Is how I look at it. Because the black line concept is follow the line, do exactly what I'm telling you to do, send one message every day for 365 days, and your business will not look the same as it does currently in a year. So the black line concept, right, Is if you follow it, which is the plan that we've laid out for the first half of this episode, you will grow your company, you will grow your business, you will do more loans. Yeah, I will grow my company.

[C]

Right.

[B]

November was one of the worst months in my company career ever.

[C]

Right?

[B]

And I've been in business for almost 11 years. June in hopefully, right, May. We're in June right now. But May was the second best month of my entire career. June was the first month as an entrepreneur, which we can all relate to this. June was the first month. June of 2025, the month we were sitting in was the first month. I started the month in the green ever as an entrepreneur, Meaning I didn't start the month having to go or in a deficit, having to go find money in order to not be in the red.

[C]

Right.

[B]

July will likely be. Even though I'm going on vacation for eight days, July will likely be the biggest month of my career. So how does that happen in November, I lose a baby, and I have a friend call me and say, michelle, you got to get back to who you are. So from the November through, you know, January, February, I don't remember the exact date, but I. Every single day, without fail, there was not a day, Saturday or Sunday, that I did not send a message to someone that I didn't know. I laid seed after seed after seed after seed after seed, and I just did not stop. I didn't stop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So black line is for me, sending one message every single day without fail through leverage to someone that I didn't know. And six months later, we're having a very different conversation. And, no, I'm not pregnant again. I wish I was. But we.

[A]

That's inspiring.

[B]

We are obviously excited about what God has in store for us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

That's what it is.

[A]

Thank you for sharing that story. I know that's not always pleasant to relive all that, but I think it really helps. And you talked earlier about connection and for, for people listening right now, like, yeah, I'm Connect with Michelle, let her know, like, what was the most impactful thing you've heard on this episode so far? Because I'm certain there's going to be more than one. I don't even know where to go from, from here because it's like, I'm. I'm impacted by the story here. I'm getting welled up, I guess. How do we put a bow on this? I think. I think my takeaway is I'm just sitting here letting this kind of wash over me now is like, what would you like to say for somebody who might. We can all relate to veering off of the black line and getting lost? Maybe somebody today was inspired. So what would you like to say to them? Final words of like, if you've been lost, if you've been confused, or if you're feeling lack of direction. It's been a tough two, three years in this industry.

[B]

Everybody can say that.

[A]

Like, what would you. How would you like to close?

[B]

It's a amazing question and you framed it perfectly for where I think you were going to go. So I'm like, my brain was, what should I say?

[C]

Right?

[B]

But here's the thing is, right, the mortgage industry has been really hard for the last few years. We all know it. As a business owner that serves the mortgage industry, we've felt it. I'm sure you felt it just the same. There is a way out of it. There is a path out of it. And you have to ask yourself, what is your black line?

[C]

Right.

[B]

What is the one thing that you have to do every single day to get yourself out of it? All of the other things that you need to be doing in a daily, on a daily basis to run your company, those things are not going to change, Right? Yes, you need structure. Yes. You need, you know, to schedule time for fitness and all that stuff. You commented on a post recently, and I've been quoting you, like, so much. I was gonna say relentlessly, but a lot on, you know, the old Flex used to be Rolexes and Range Rovers, and the new Flex really is fitness, and I really believe that. And we had a conversation two nights ago at dinner where I was talking about you and I said, jeff commented on something I posted. It was an article I posted on LinkedIn and you said, you know, it used to be Rolex and Range Rovers and really the new Flex is fitness and I couldn't agree more. But so, long story short, all of those things are still going to be there, right? We need help with systems and processes and hell, I'm sitting here in the middle of needing help with systems and processes for the trajectory that I'm on, especially with writing a book. I've never written a book before. I don't know what to do. Like, I'm learning as I go. But my black line has never changed. Which at the end of the day, what is a mortgage professional? What is an entrepreneur? What is or anybody who sells anything or is in a service based business need? We need leads, right? We need opportunities that create top of funnel leads for us to sell to. So how do we get those? And that is the black line. The black line is you must prospect every single day with intentionality. You must send one message without fail to someone that you do not know through leverage. And you will not be in the same position that you currently are in 365 days. So that ties back to the, the very beginning of our conversation, which is one message a day in one of those three buckets or with the intention of getting one of those three things, which in turn creates what we all need at the top of our funnel, which is a lead. So the leads. The leads are out there, man. And are you taking action? And you know, I know you'll be here for my keynote tomorrow. So what is your black line? You got to ask yourself that question and you got to get back to it.

[A]

I love it. Yeah, that's fantastic. I think that's a excellent point to go out on because at the end of the day, right, we're all in this, in this industry ultimately. Yeah. If we're not, we're not moving the chains forward, so to speak, right. In our business and making progress and generating leads and we got to make money so we can support our families and do all the things that we want to do. So I love the fact you laid out a very simple framework for people to, to copy here and implement their business. So for those who do want to connect with you, where would you like them to connect?

[B]

Anywhere. Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Burma, media social on Instagram, LinkedIn, Michelle Burman Michael. Facebook, Michelle Burman Michael. But you know, you can pre order not quote, unquote, buy the book yet as far as pre order is concerned. But if you'd like to be on the pre order list for when we are officially available for pre order, which will be very soon. We're working on a early August date, hopefully. My son's birthday is August 25th, so our goal is to have a book in my hand that I am physically holding by August 25th. I think we'll be a little ahead of that, which is awesome. But you can DM me the word book and I'll just add you to the pre order list because that way once, once I know, you will all know.

[A]

Right. So at a minimum, follow you on all the socials. DM her the word book. Right. To get on the pre order list. And lastly, if, once again, if this was an impactful message or one key takeaway from this, just, you know, let us know, comment on Michelle when you, when you follow her, let her know, send her a DM and that's it. We appreciate it, Michelle, thank you so much.

[B]

Thanks for having me, Jeff.

[A]

All right, everybody, you know what to do. Take care. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.