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- [00:00]
A
Brian, welcome to show.
- [00:01]
B
What's up, Jeff? Welcome to Nashville.
- [00:03]
A
I had to fly to Nashville to get you on the show.
- [00:05]
B
Well, I would say it's easier with three kids and traveling, everything. Come to Nashville. We'll book it out and we'll make it happen.
- [00:11]
A
This actually has been a long time coming, this conversation, because obviously we've been in the mortgage space seeing each other crossing paths for many years. As a matter of fact, I remember years ago. I don't if you remember, you and I were both at Movement for a period of time and there was. There was, I think at a Movement event or something, but we're in the same hotel. I don't know if you remember that. And I saw you walking across the lobby, which I did not come out and say hi to you at that time. So I apologize.
- [00:33]
B
Oh, my feelings. You know, the good thing is I don't remember much sometimes, so it's like I don't. I do remember the events and us being together.
- [00:40]
A
Right, right. Anyways, it's been a long time coming. You've got a book published since then. Conversations with COVID That's what we're happening today, Conversations. So obviously coming out here on the plane, I was able to do some prep. But for those who may not be familiar with you or what do you want to tell the listeners about who Brian is? What's he all about?
- [00:59]
B
Oh, man. I'm gonna start with. I'm a family man.
- [01:01]
A
Okay.
- [01:01]
B
Married 22 years next month. We got three amazing kids. Presley's our oldest, 17, starting the college journey. We got Davis, our 15 year old. And then Henry is our eight year old, about to be nine. And so with Nicole and I always share this journey is. You know, we met right after I'd finished my pro soccer days. And so I played college. And that was my life up until then. And I found my way into not being able to get a job. And so I fell into consumer finance with Wells Fargo Financial and then fell in love with my friends. Wanted to buy homes. I wanted to buy a house. I had no idea how to do it, and I was going to figure out how to do that. So now I say I'm able to help people create net worth and wealth through real estate and through making smart investments in those two decades. Plus that, I've learned lessons. How do I help them do that? And mortgage is a tool. Real estate's a tool. But also just fully looking at how do you help people win at life? And. And I think that's the game we all Want.
- [01:48]
A
Yeah, yeah, I know we're going to talk more about that because in following you and your content on social media, I don't know if you do this, but you try and get an assessment of what's somebody about. Right. What is their main thing. And I see that you clearly lead with leadership, understanding. Like I have written down here, if you don't mind, I'm going to reference my notes for today's conversation. Routines, habits and best practices of the top 1%. So that's going to be kind of like a headline we probably go back to during this conversation. But I thought it would be interesting because maybe you. I don't know if you feel like you've told the story too much about your soccer days, but when I heard it, I was like, no, I want to bring this to the surface because I think it's part of who you are. You know what I mean? So I have written down that you are a former pro soccer player and former US Olympic team member, which heads up. Shocking. Hello. Like, tell us about that, man. The Olympics are happening right now as we're doing this.
- [02:46]
B
Yeah. So I was fortunate. At the U15, there's national teams, just like U15, U16, U17, like all these different ages. They said they bring in the best players from across the country.
- [02:55]
A
Okay.
- [02:56]
B
And I lived in Memphis, and so it was a few of us that we got invited to the pool. Right. You make your state team, then your state team, you go 12 states. They pick the best players from those states. And I was fortunate enough at an early age. I got picked up. They saw some talent in me. Well, I realized through that journey, I needed one get more physically fit, which is part of why my mindset. You'll see me share what I do is one of the things I need to work on. Wasn't necessarily my soccer game. It was being physically fit. It was my mindset. And so I was fortunate enough to go on. And you'll see the Olympics. You'll see these are under 23. Right. You're going to have younger players. And I was able to make the pool and the squad. I did not make the final team to go on. And so it's lessons in life of there's always another level. You're always striving for something. But I look back those days to be able to make those teams and to be part of that and to be exposed to greatness and even the pro rankings, like, it's one thing to make college. The percentages are low.
- [03:44]
A
Yep.
- [03:45]
B
People actually get to Go to college. I was able to play all four years, captain our last two years. And things I share with people to go. It's why I'm so fascinated and still curious about leadership. Because as a captain of a soccer team with new players coming, the seniors graduating, like, how do you bring people together? Yeah, I love that aspect. And I just took what I learned in team sports and now apply to business.
- [04:04]
A
To business. So did you get a scholarship for soccer? I did for college. Okay. Okay. So you said you made what was the different levels, the final team. Right. You made a certain level and then unfortunately you didn't make the next Olympic team.
- [04:17]
B
As I wanted not make the final roster to get to go. There's Olympic team that you see now.
- [04:21]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [04:21]
B
But you also see like the US Men's national team and there's the junior squads, we would call them. There's the senior squad. You'll see that go to the World Cup.
- [04:28]
A
Yeah.
- [04:28]
B
So if anybody doesn't understand the differences, you, you have all this like basically preparation of the younger players, hoping one day that they'll make the senior squad, which is the one that you see that will go to the World Cup.
- [04:38]
A
So do you watch a lot of soccer still yourself?
- [04:41]
B
I don't think it's a lot. People probably say that every day is every day a lot.
- [04:45]
A
Every day.
- [04:46]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [04:47]
A
I would say it's more than the average American.
- [04:48]
B
If you come into our house, there is a high probability I'm watching soccer.
- [04:53]
A
Really? Yeah. Do you have a favorite team international or so?
- [04:55]
B
I support Nashville here, but. But I've always been a Manchester United fan. Just from the 90s and the days that were there. It's been a rough ride through some years. Our daughter loves Liverpool, which is fascinating. And then you threw in. My brother in law's a huge Arsenal fan. So anybody watches Premier League? That's usually my favorite.
- [05:10]
A
The fights ensue, huh?
- [05:12]
B
That league, it's just hard not to love them. But then you go, okay, there's the Bundesliga. Right. And you can watch all these leagues. Soccer's everywhere. But I've poured in since we're here in Nashville.
- [05:21]
A
That's my team, of course, local, so it's interesting. Did you watch the Beckham documentary on Netflix?
- [05:26]
B
Of course. A few times.
- [05:27]
A
A few times. It's funny, I watched that and it's really probably the most I've ever gotten educated about soccer, if you will, from that angle. But I have to say, you know, some people would say that I have a man crush on David Beckham. Now, you know, you wouldn't be alone in that. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Right? I mean, come on now. Yeah, dude's cool. But anyway, the point being is it gave me this huge appreciation for soccer that I had never had before. His story, I don't know, what do you say? Because, you know, there's a little bit of. I know we're off a sidetrack right now, but I just think it's an interesting conversation because you're one who's got experience. How would you rank him as a player?
- [06:08]
B
For me, you look at what he overcame, and he was the most loved player, the most hated player, all within everything he's done. And then I look at what he's done outside of his playing days, and to me, what's your legacy after you've played and going and doing the inter Miami, coming to MLS and having that forethought to go, I'm going to open a team one day. And he's brought Messi to the United States. Like, you can't, arguably, you can't say there's not been a bigger event that's had a ripple effect. And you look at the players he's bringing in, they're top of the league right now of their conference. And so I look at Beckham and go, how can you be the one that falls down as the most hated player for your country? And yet you rise up when you know everyone in your country wants you not to play, not to succeed, and he rose through it. Then you go, what has he done? Breaking cultural boundaries outside of soccer, to me, outside of the game, right? Because arguably he was one of the best players for England. He scored one of the most epic goals to keep them alive. But you look what he's done off the field. To me, that's the complete package that I'm so impressed by.
- [07:06]
A
And there's a lot of lessons in there. We'll probably continue to double tap on that. But to your point about the whole most hated, I don't think I know of another example in sports where the fans, so to speak, right, were so vocal and brutal. Like, if any of anybody's listening to you have not seen that documentary, that is a lesson in, as you just illustrated, overcoming, like being as low, I think, as you could possibly be. Imagine being in a mortgage business and all your referral partners hate you, right? All your customers hate you. And then not only hate you, but they're actually posting about you that you suck online, on social media. And if you walk into an office building at A remax. They're all shouting, saying, you suck. Go home.
- [07:46]
B
Yeah.
- [07:46]
A
Like, how do you come back from that, man?
- [07:48]
B
And your own team.
- [07:49]
A
Yeah.
- [07:49]
B
And your own team taking the red card and then them, you know, blaming him. However people want to frame that up, you go, your own team doesn't want you to come back. They're going, like, are you a risk to us? Like, do we want. Like, we don't know what to do with you.
- [08:00]
A
Right.
- [08:01]
B
And yet he just continued and he talked about. He just.
- [08:03]
A
Crazy, man. That's what blew me away about watching this. I'm like, that guy's just so resilient. And it must have been. You saw it in there, like, how dark those moments were. Yet, what do you think? What was it? Refresh my memory. And what brought him back? What won the crowd back over and the team back over?
- [08:18]
B
When he scored the epic free kick towards the end to send England through in the World Cup. So after the red car, that was the big catastrophic piece. And then you'll hear bend it like Beckham the movie. Right. And all that. And his free kicks were one that now people mimic and they learn. But he was really a pioneer in that of, like, the way he was able to hit the ball over and curve over a wall and score. And when he scored that, everyone was like, wow, now we love him again.
- [08:40]
A
Right, Right.
- [08:40]
B
You know, I mean, it's the hero's journey that we all go through.
- [08:43]
A
Hero's journey, exactly. It's such an amazing documentary. You all should watch it, because there's a lot of lessons in life and business and all that kind of stuff. So, anyway, I could talk about it for the next 30 minutes, but. All right, let's correlate that, actually, because I have written down. I believe this might be something that you said. The correlations from sports to business are everywhere, and it's how you lead. What do you mean by that?
- [09:05]
B
So I think for most people, they've played some organized sport. It doesn't mean you have to play professional.
- [09:09]
A
Sure.
- [09:11]
B
My experience may not be your experience, but what I can share with you, though, the collegiate and pro experience, that's in business as well. Like, you start somewhere and then through time. For some people, it takes them longer to learn the lessons that are there. One of the biggest ones for me has always been consistency. It doesn't matter what you're doing, what sport you're in, you have to realize that consistency wins. Right. I know we're at the greatness factory. So Coach Bird always talks about. This is long Obedience in the same direction. Now, I've changed that over the past few years listening to one of my mentors, Andy Frazella says, aggressive patience. So you take long obedience in the same direction. So that's the patient side. But aggressive patience means you're going to take actions outside of your comfort zone, outside of your bubble every day. You're going to push the limits of what's possible. Imagine if we hadn't done that in mortgage. I'll take Morgan because we know that language.
- [09:58]
A
Yeah.
- [09:59]
B
What if we hadn't innovated on products, technology, how we actually do business virtually now? What if we had not innovated on that and we were still trying to do business like we did 20 years ago?
- [10:07]
A
Yeah.
- [10:08]
B
I don't think we'd be successful. I know. I know. I wouldn't. I look at our team and so I say, sports and business correlate because you have to be a great team player. You have to be coachable. The best people I've worked with, and I always look at myself to go, am I being coachable? Because the people that are coachable will listen to feedback and realize even if someone gives you feedback you may not agree with, it hurts your feelings. If you haven't received that in life, you will.
- [10:31]
A
Yeah.
- [10:33]
B
Are you listening to what the lesson is? Are you willing to take feedback from people to learn and grow? Growth is painful. I always equate it to working out. You break down your muscles, you're lifting weights, you're doing things, you're breaking down your muscles to rebuild them.
- [10:48]
A
Yeah.
- [10:48]
B
Which the rebuilding is then the nutrition, the recovery, what you do after your stretching. Right. All of that. Well, what are you doing in business today to grow? That's outside of your comfort zone. Making sales calls, showing up on social. And then what are you doing to recover? Are you auditing the film athletes? Do you.
- [11:06]
A
That's a great point there. So many people don't audit the film or, you know, role play. And, you know, is that example. It makes me think of that quote by Nick Saban. You may know it better than I. I think I only remember half of it where it's like, you know, good players want to be coached, great players want to be corrected. I think something like that.
- [11:21]
B
Similar to that. And it'll also go on to say, great players don't tolerate low standards.
- [11:27]
A
Yeah. So, all right, so we're in an interesting time in the mortgage business. Right. It's, you know, low inventory, high interest rates. Affordability is an issue. Transactions are down. You. What's what's your. What's your role at Revolution Mortgage?
- [11:43]
B
Executive vice president.
- [11:44]
A
Okay, so you're working a lot, are you interacting with the loan officers, the guys and gals on the. On the streets daily basis.
- [11:50]
B
Those the leaders attracting talent in when they come in, making sure they're successful. They run P and ls. So there's this other side of running a business while you're originating loans and doing business development.
- [12:00]
A
So what. What's the vibe you're getting?
- [12:02]
B
You know, we're in a different spot. And I'll share this post today, right? Because we're recording this I shared with everybody is, you know, last quarter we did 822 million, right?
- [12:10]
A
Congratulations.
- [12:11]
B
For us. It's amazing. That's the team. In the last year we did, you know, 1.65 billion. Right. So we have this massive growth. But I attribute that to. It's a few things. It's hiring the right people. Knowing who is your company built for. I think a lot of companies in the mortgage space are guilty of this. I've been guilty. You hire anybody based on the production. You don't hire based on characteristics and skill sets.
- [12:31]
A
Right?
- [12:31]
B
Think about sports. Again, this is another sports analogy. Why it's always go back to, this is a great sports team. Like, I may be a great player for this team. I fit in their system. You put me on another team, you move me over to a different league. I am no longer as effective as I was. Doesn't mean I'm a bad player. It just means I don't fit. So I look at the success we're having, it's because we've hired the right people, we put them in the right environment and structure to help them be successful. And the better we tell our story and have a clearer vision, the more people and go, that's for me or that's not for me.
- [13:01]
A
What is the environment to be successful for? You know, an originator in today's world. And is everybody right for that environment?
- [13:08]
B
Oh, that's good. So revolution or just in general?
- [13:11]
A
Yeah, let's just. I mean, it layers over revolution, right? So, yeah, in general, what do you think is the right environment? Because I often get the question, maybe you do as well. People hit me up and they're like, hey, man, I'm looking for a change or something. Right? And so, by the way, the first thing I say, I think you'll appreciate this. And this came out of, for me personally, my time at Movement with Casey being at the helm, the first thing I advise people to look at when they're considering a change is leadership. Right? So how would you advise anybody considering a change in this market? What should they look for?
- [13:39]
B
I think the leadership matters because it's the direction of the company. You need to find alignment there. But you also need to realize this leadership, over time, their vision for the company could change. And so you need to understand where they're going, ask the questions. And I always ask people, what's your end game with this? What is your vision over the next year, five years, 10 years? And you need to understand, if they can't articulate it, that lack of clarity is going to create a lot of bumps in the road.
- [14:01]
A
So if they say, here's your cards.
- [14:03]
B
Hit the bricks, here's your laptop and.
- [14:06]
A
Good luck, go get them, that's our vision.
- [14:07]
B
I think leadership matters there. But more importantly, this is where most people lose sight of this is I think your local leadership, who you spend the most time with. It's like when they say the five people you spend the most time with out of that, it's probably one or two who you spend the most time with. And that's where operations matters in this world. Because a lot of people in mortgage today forget, yes, selling is important, yes, building relationships important. But if you don't have the right team and the right alignment, I mean, how many times have I heard someone say, you probably heard it well, this process, fantastic. Best processor ever. You give them to another team and they're like, man, I don't like the way that he or she works like this. This isn't for me. So find what works for you. And I believe people need to be more entrepreneurial based. Gone are the days of your company is going to help you get leads. They're going to provide everything for you that you're going to rely on your company. For you to be successful, you have to realize this is an entrepreneurial journey. You are the CEO of your business. Wherever you fit into that. Loan officer, branch manager, whatever your role is. Are you approaching as if you're the CEO? Do you make decisions based on that? Whether it's pricing, marketing, how you show up on social, what's the opportunity cost of you not making the calls that are there? Are you learning your products and programs? Are you a true pro? And I hear this today, actually was talking to a real estate agent on the way over here, referral I sent and she was telling about how bad the communication was with another lender. And twice they're flipping the customer to us because I couldn't get A call back for two and three days. In this market, Jeff, in this market, a loan officer won't call back with updates. Well, I would venture to guess they don't come back with updates because it's bad news. Well, now we determine that within two hours. And by the way, we're not going to be able to do the loan. But imagine people not working on their skills. If you were an athlete and and you didn't improve from your freshman year to your senior year, how many colleges would pick you up?
- [15:44]
A
Yeah, none.
- [15:45]
B
Doesn't happen. And we don't look at our journey and our career as if every year is a building block to get better. Where do you need to get better? You have to take that self assessment and be aware and then put people around you. Right. Environment. Right. Support and get better.
- [15:59]
A
Yeah, you mentioned, I think you said something to the effect of I brought up Revolution Mortgage and. Right. What should people be looking for? Did you say something like, you know, that might not be the best example. You're talking about like what's different. I think you were alluding to something about what's different at Revolution.
- [16:13]
B
So ours is a complete P and L model, which means you're an owner of your business. Right. So the branch leaders, the people that are there, very different. But I'll tell you, we are very collaborative and everybody's in house. We don't outsource things. Which means you have great relationships with people. And look at it too is eliminating the layers that have been traditional and retail and other organizations means you need to be self sufficient. Right. In the sense of that. And so our environment, we provide you with the tools and resources. But we're also not a micromanaging like many banks will do is they're very much like just I came up in it. So I can say the contrast is there. The people that thrive in our world want to be successful. They want the best. They demand the best from us. To give them everything from compliance, marketing operations, everything they need to win with product program. But they realize the person making the call and building the relationship is the loan officer in the street.
- [17:02]
A
Yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna read a quote to you, if I may, by our mutual friend Rene Rodriguez.
- [17:10]
B
Oh yeah.
- [17:10]
A
And if Renee's listening, shout out. Here's what Renee said. Everyone needs a Brian Covey in their life. Someone who not only believes in you but also is consistently pushing you to grow. He leads by example in all he does, which is my favorite part about him. I have never seen a better relationship builder in all my years. Mmm.
- [17:31]
B
It's pretty humbling from a guy that I consider a mentor and has helped me break through some barriers myself.
- [17:36]
A
Yeah, right, right. Sounds like you went through his various events. Amplify and all that. Same as well. I think I can remember crying from the front of the room three times. Three times. Amplify.
- [17:47]
B
I'm gonna go back again and ampcon. You know, going back again. And you surround yourself with people like that. Because every time I spend time with Renee, I learned something, and I feel better as a result.
- [17:57]
A
Yeah, you improve. You level up. Yes. You gain a little bit more knowledge, maybe a little bit more. I think you gain a little bit more understanding about yourself. Okay, let's go here. A little more understanding about yourself so you can feel more comfortable in your place in the world. What do you think about that?
- [18:13]
B
I think that's part of what Amplify is. Is understanding who are you. And he starts from a place of what makes you unique.
- [18:19]
A
Yeah.
- [18:19]
B
And I think a lot of people struggle with that. I struggle with it at first. Like, yeah, what does make me unique?
- [18:24]
A
Why am I unique?
- [18:25]
B
And then when you start to own that, I mean, it's very much like. I know we're talking about brand builders before we started all that. Like, when you own your uniqueness, then that uniqueness allows you to serve people. And Rory shares this quote I love, and he talks about, you're most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. So when you understand who you are uniquely, you're uniquely qualified because experiences and life events and what you've done to go help the people, they're in the spot that you once were.
- [18:52]
A
Yeah, I like that. So how does that play out for you, that particular quote?
- [18:56]
B
Leadership. It's why my. When I moved out of production, I have said. And it's the coach in me. I mean, look, when I couldn't get a job, I was coaching soccer. Right. When I was playing soccer, I was still coaching for fun. I still coach like it's how I'm wired.
- [19:07]
A
Like it. You enjoy it?
- [19:08]
B
I love it. I think it's who God designed me to be in the sense of coaches do it for the passion. I mean, how many times have I volunteered to coach just because it's free? And I just go. I love the potential in people, especially youth athletes that don't see it yet. And I know in my life, all it takes is one coach to believe in you.
- [19:27]
A
True. That's a good point. I have to agree with that as well. It can take one Person to make a shift in your life. One word, one conversation. Yeah.
- [19:35]
B
Changes you.
- [19:36]
A
So back to this quote from Renee. I've never seen a better relationship builder in all my years. What would you share with loan officers who are listening right now? You know, we know this is particularly with referral partners and, you know, clients. It's a relationship, relationship, connection, business. Any advice or tips that you would want to provide on, you know, how do you create those relationships?
- [19:59]
B
So I'll use one. Dave Meltzer shared this with me, so I can't take credit, but every time you get a chance to talk to somebody, be more interested than interesting. We're all guilty. We think we have the best thing ever, and we want to sell, sell, sell. We want to tell that realtor how great we are. What I found, when you ask questions, if you don't know how to do this, well, you need to learn it, because it is a skill for most of us. We're wired to tell people about who we are. But imagine being so interested about that real estate agent, financial plan or builder, whoever it is, that you know so much about them that when it comes time, where you go, you know what? I think I can help you. Well, I've listened for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever it is, 10 minutes even. If you listen well, you ask the right questions, they've told you what their problems are and what they're looking for, and then you're able to say, you know, it sounds like you have a problem that I can help you with. And I think most loan officers come from a standpoint of how much do we sell? Rate, product, program. People even sell service. They're like, speed. Well, if I'm on the other side of that, are those my criteria to choose?
- [21:00]
A
You, right? Haven't even asked. Yeah, it's assumptions.
- [21:04]
B
Phil Jones says this. One of our friends, right? I always say it's malpractice. Like, we're giving people the prescription without doing any diagnosis. What's. And he jokes, imagine walking in the doctor's office and they're like, hey, you know what, Jeff? You just need this. I'm not even gonna ask you what your symptoms are or anything that's there. But you know what? I've just been seeing this going around. Like, I'm just gonna give you this medicine. This is gonna fix you and cure you. This is how loan officers show up today in the lower percentile. The best build personal brands. They show up and they're consistent, and they build relationships. I believe this is word ubiquitous that I was taught Years and years ago, you need to show up where your clients, show up where customers potentially could find you. And being ubiquitous is showing up as your true self. Educating, informing, showing what you do inside the office, outside the office, Testimonials, proof, like, who are you? Because I think just making calls, like we were all taught to do early in our career, no longer can get you the access to build relationships. Because I think about this. If the average person today, I think it's some two hours, three hours on social media. Well, if they're there, shouldn't I be there? And I think about that as engaging comments. It doesn't even mean your posts building relationships. What Renee's speaking to is something that I did very tactically that I'll give someone is I have a top 25, and they're people that I want to have deeper relationships with.
- [22:23]
A
Okay.
- [22:24]
B
And I will intentionally go in and I will comment on their posts, and I will get so curious and intrigued about what's going on in their life.
- [22:30]
A
Right.
- [22:31]
B
So if I haven't seen you in three months, but I followed what you're doing, I know what's happening with your daughter. I know where she's going. I know what you're doing in your business. I know where you've traveled to. Don't you think that'd make a better conversation when I see you next?
- [22:41]
A
Yeah. I mean, I think about it as I sit here and listen to you. You know, when I'm looking at my notes and preparing for this podcast, you know, like, as we said at the opener, you and I have known each other from a distance. Right. We could run into each other at events and share stages or whatnot, but I don't know a lot about Brian. Right. So I had to prep and, you know, dig in and want to know more about Brian because it makes for a better conversation and it makes me really curious.
- [23:04]
B
You're doing it just now.
- [23:05]
A
Yeah, exactly. Right. And I think that's like, in the context of, like, if you're meeting with referral partners or you can do this easier with referral partners than consumers typically. But, yeah, do a little research, right. Look them up and find out, oh, you know, like, this dude played soccer at a high level. And as a matter of fact, tell me if this is correct. You were a bass player at your church, is that correct?
- [23:25]
B
Yeah. Got a few hidden talents out there.
- [23:30]
A
Do you still hit the bass or what?
- [23:31]
B
I do, I do. My daughter is actually our oldest, our 17 year old. She's willing to learn that. And so really yeah. So we got a four string. One of my older ones. I'm like, I'm gonna teach you that. But that was for me earlier in life. That was the creative side of me. I'm a left handed guy, so I have this creative side.
- [23:44]
A
I noticed that. Same here.
- [23:45]
B
Yeah, yeah. And bass for me. I mean, thank goodness. My parents, I'll never forget. They went and got me a little small amp and a bas. And I still keep up with my bass teacher, Neil Bowen. Shout out to him if he's ever listening. He does listen to the shows that I'm on. Neil's doing these videos lately and I'm watching who he is and where he is in his life. But I ran into him, I don't think by coincidence whatsoever at a music shop. And I'm in there and he's just playing and I'm like mesmerized. Like, how do you do this? How did you play that? And he's like, oh, man, I teach lessons. I was probably 12 years old, he's probably 20 at that point. And he would teach bass lessons and he learned from the great Victor Wooten. If anybody keeps up with bass, Bay Laflek and the Flecktones, he's like literally one of the greatest bass players ever.
- [24:25]
A
Wow.
- [24:25]
B
He was learning from him in Nashville, so he had a great teacher. But I share a lot with people. Like, if you want to get great at anything, you go and you learn from a teacher. That's how you grow.
- [24:36]
A
Yeah. That's why we do these podcasts. Right. So we learn from others and then hopefully bring that message to a larger audience. The bass. That's interesting. And then you have a daughter who's playing the bass. Yeah. So I've got seen as we connect on family. Mine, my two boys, if you're listening, 22 and 21, was the lead singer in his college band up at Cal Poly. Slo band called Magnolia, which is now disbanded because they graduated. But and the other one is actually in music production. So that's why the whole conversation around like rap and all that jazz and you know, him introducing me to all these, you know, so he's like. As a matter of fact, I always like to give him a shout out. He did my bumper music on the podcast, the intro that people listen to. So anyway, keep it going, Jackson. And now he's doing some video editing for me. But yeah, it's cool to involve the kids, right? In the creative endeavors.
- [25:23]
B
That's right.
- [25:25]
A
All right, so back to the conversation around the correlation between sports and Business. Last glance at my notes here. I don't want to overlook. I mean, just the fact that you were able to compete for being on the Olympic team says a lot, but. Right. Let's just grab the notes here. Right. A role when you were freshman. Captain honors all four years. You set multiple records. You were a goalie.
- [25:50]
B
I was a goalkeeper.
- [25:51]
A
Okay. Goalkeeper. Is that the. Correct.
- [25:53]
B
Yeah.
- [25:53]
A
Sorry.
- [25:54]
B
GK Goalkeeper. Yeah. Some people call it goalie, but, you know.
- [25:57]
A
All right. Us laymen call it a goalie. That's right. So you set multiple records, including saves in a single game, shutouts in a row, and minutes with no goals allowed.
- [26:07]
B
Look at you do homework, baller. Yeah. I tell you about my freshman year. Started off on a highlight reel of, like, we had five games in a row, and we didn't give up a goal.
- [26:16]
A
Wow.
- [26:16]
B
That's amazing. It was. Yeah. Apparently some record. Right? And you're not. You don't play for the record. People that play at that level understand, like, you're playing to win every minute and every game. And I remember the newscast came out, and they're interviewing all of us there, and it was wild.
- [26:29]
A
I'm like, how old are you at this time?
- [26:31]
B
So I was 18. Going into 18.
- [26:34]
A
When you're banging these records. Yeah.
- [26:35]
B
And I just turned 19, actually, going into my freshman year.
- [26:38]
A
That's awesome. That is awesome.
- [26:40]
B
Really cool. I tell people. This is. I came in and fought for that spot. Was not promised. Right. Coming in as a freshman, you had to fight for. And I fought so hard. I told you. This is part of who I am is one of the training sessions. We would train in Memphis. So obviously, the humidity, the heat in August. And I trained so hard. One of the days, in the afternoon, I passed out, literally. And they took me inside. Got two IVs.
- [27:03]
A
Really?
- [27:03]
B
Yeah. And I was cramping every full body cramp. If you've never experienced it, I don't advise it. But I share that story with people, because what are you willing to get what you want? And in my life, there's been times like that where I was willing to put it all on the line.
- [27:18]
A
So, again, I hearken back to the whole Beckham story, and I'm thinking back to, like, how old was he when he signed that contract with his coach? It was like, 15 or something.
- [27:25]
B
Oh, yeah. He was super young.
- [27:27]
A
Yeah.
- [27:28]
B
Yeah. When Manchester United signed him originally, like, incredibly young.
- [27:31]
A
So you watch that. You watch this guy Beckham. His dad's just, you know, it's kind of like the Tiger woods thing, bringing the kid up right along the ways. So where does that come for you, though? Where does that competitive spirit get instilled? Is that nature, nurture? Like, can you identify that?
- [27:48]
B
Well, I was fortunate. My dad's a psychologist, also the minister. You know, he's a pastor and all of that. And always think about like, he was the first one early on, like playing at Christ Methodist Day School. Like, that was our church.
- [27:58]
A
So he was a soccer player?
- [27:59]
B
No, no, not at all. Okay, which is the craziest story. He's a basketball player. One of my other loves was basketball, but clearly my height. Like, at some point I did AAU all the way through about 13 or 14 years old. And then soccer took off. That's when I made like the national team pool. And they kind of pulled me. I'm like, I think soccer is going to be my jam. Right. And grew up in Memphis. You realize very quickly you're like, there's some great basketball players. Don't know that I was going to be one of them. That wasn't. But the hand eye coordination taught me how to be a great goalkeeper. And I share all that because my dad was the one that was out there just shooting baskets. Shooting baskets. Even though he wasn't a soccer player, I was on the field. Now I have a really cool side story of one of our first coaches. You've probably heard of the name Pele.
- [28:38]
A
Yeah, I think so.
- [28:38]
B
So Pele wasn't my coach, but Powell Rote Junior. You should look him up. One of the great American footballers. Yeah. That got to play with Pele. He was in Memphis. His kids went to Christ Methodist Day School. So he came out and he's kind of helping. And I have these memories. Like we were super young, right? Like five, six years old. And I think somewhere within there between my dad and my mom was always a hard worker. My older brother was five years older and I would chase the older brother. I'm sorry, if you have an older sibling, you know what I'm talking about? You want to play with them, it doesn't matter that they're 10 years old and you're five. You're like, dude, I'm running with them and you get your butt kicked and then you just keep competing. And so I think it was birthed through that. And I loved basketball and soccer were my main sports. But I even tried football for a few years because I'm like, man, like, I just, I want to hit, I want to run. Running back. And it's always been for me is just to compete I think. I think it's God's gift.
- [29:29]
A
So it's kind of in your DNA a little bit that compete.
- [29:32]
B
It was. And it's nurtured over time. I think it is when you're around the right coaches. One of my all time favorite soccer coaches, Richard, played for the Polish national team, came to the States, and he was a goalkeeper for them. Right. So I had this mentor right there with me in the training sessions were crazy. Like, we did somersaults on the concrete. We would dive over trash cans. I share things with people. They go, that's like child abuse. No, we loved it. It made us who were. And he produced probably three, four professional level goalkeepers within a 10 year period. And you go, okay, there's something to that. We did things that were very unorthodox. Almost equate it to like Mr. Miyagi.
- [30:11]
A
Yeah.
- [30:12]
B
It was so strange that people go.
- [30:14]
A
What are you doing?
- [30:16]
B
But yet he continually produced these great products and people.
- [30:19]
A
Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. So you're very fortunate. Lucky, Right. Some would say, to have those influences at a young age.
- [30:26]
B
That's what you do with it, I always say, is how many people did he coach that didn't.
- [30:29]
A
True, true. It's like, you know, the seeds. Right. Sometimes they fall on fertile ground, sometimes thorny ground. Right. That's very, very interesting. Wow. Name of your podcast is finding your competitive edge, is that correct?
- [30:42]
B
It is.
- [30:43]
A
All right. How long you been doing it?
- [30:44]
B
So we started right before COVID Oh, okay. So four years.
- [30:47]
A
Yeah.
- [30:48]
B
And we had started, had a couple of in person interviews and then Renee, of course, was one of the first ones that we did virtually when everything locked down. And so we're 100.
- [30:58]
A
Wow. Really?
- [31:00]
B
150. Yeah. Still just jamming through. And it's evolved over time.
- [31:04]
A
Yeah, always. Wow, that's fantastic, man. So if people want to tune in, we're gonna put links in the show notes to finding a competitive edge. Right. A link to your book, conversations with Kobe, how to win at life no matter where you are now. Okay, so here we are, pretty much the six month mark of 2024. We're gonna, you know, we're heading into the rest of this year. Arguably, we're seeing some some relief on interest rates coming up. What are you back to your team over there at Revolution Mortgage. Any kind of directional advice? Coaching for people to A, finish strong, B, build that Runway of momentum for 2025.
- [31:42]
B
Oh, I love this question. This is one that I've been talking to our team about. I'VE been sharing on some shows I've gone is from Trent Shelton. And so give him credit for this is protect your perspective. There's a perspective and we're heading into a really noisy season with the political warfare that's happening. Just call. I mean, it doesn't matter what side you're on, what you are going to vote, like, that's up to you. But what I say to people is most right now don't have a strong enough mindset to protect their perspective. And what I mean by that is they're letting all this outside noise. It could be there's not enough listings, rates are still high. Maybe it'll get better in six months. And so they're going to wait. Well, you know what, there's the election season. So, you know, it's just, it's not in my favor or, you know, just I don't have the products I need to win. You know, our rates are just out of whack today and this week. And maybe I need to go to this company. Maybe that's going to be my silver bullet. Your perspective is your choice. I'll repeat that. Your perspective is your choice. When you have a strong mindset, you get to choose. This is what I believe and this is why I believe it. That's how you show up. And I always say this to loan officers. If your perspective is the market sucks, everything's hard, I can't get anything done. How many people want to work with you?
- [32:54]
A
Right? Very few.
- [32:55]
B
And they wonder why real estate agents, financial planners, they wonder why people don't work with them and always say it's like back to Renee's quote is like one of the things that I've really leaned in on, it wasn't a gift, was being positive and protecting my perspective of I have a dose of reality. But also think about what could be what if. What if I made these extra 10 calls today or this week? What if I think I'm pretty good, that I could build some relationships, I could get a lead, I could help someone, I could solve a problem. And I think that's where people stumble. So protect your perspective. The other is, I'll give Rory credit for this because I always tell I learn from the best. And then I figured how it works for our team. Rory shared this at Neil's event. We all need to take a real hard look. Are we self focused and self centered or are we service centered and service centered? And the difference between these is if you're self centered, you're going to know because you're thinking about your commission. You're thinking about, you know, I got to go out there and I just got to go get another lead, and I just got to go do this. Service centered is a game you can't lose. You show up looking for people that might have a problem that you can help. You ask questions to uncover what's really going on beneath the surface. You slow down to build relationships. And when you're service centered and you ask questions, you're not jumping to sell. You're actually solving problems that people already have. And then you show up and think about in your own life, like, Jeff, I know this for me is like when I had a problem and I was clear on it and someone showed up and asked me questions ago, hey, what's going on, Brian? How are you doing with this? How are you doing with that? And they uncovered a problem. They said, have you thought about this? How much better does that come across versus, hey, you know what? Now's the time to refinance. Rates have dropped a little bit. I think it's phenomenal time. You should just go refinance. It's a great time to buy. Guys like, rates are relatively historically low. You see the difference what we say and how we say it is there. The last one just kind of put a bow on. It is, I think people underestimate what they can actually accomplish by training. And I just use the sports piece. If you were to train every day, even 30 minutes, let's just give everybody 30 minutes that you got great at something. It could be social media marketing. It could be your content strategy, could be writing if you want to do newsletters. It could be you work on your database. It could be you follow up with your customers in a way that is unique. You got great at something for 30 minutes. Maybe it's with AI today. Let's be real, like, a lot happening in that space. What if you got great at that in a month? Where would you be? 90 days? Where would you be if you spent that many hours becoming great? Do you think you'd be better than your competition? Yeah, because I know my competition isn't doing that right. Maybe the top 1%.
- [35:35]
A
Right, right.
- [35:36]
B
But that's where people underestimate. 90 days. If you really want to be somewhere different, you have to look back 90 days. But you can start today, wherever you are, and get great at that. One thing that's going to move your business forward.
- [35:48]
A
I love that, man. Those are two big takeaways I have from that, which is slow down to build Relationships. And you know, where can you take 30 minutes a day to get great at something or get better and improve? I think that's the other thing that we can get that competitive advantage in. We can be better at, like, if we talk about transactions are down, well, we need to get better at conversions. Right. We need to get better at building business or attracting business, like all those things. So where is. Pick that one to three things in your business that can move the needle for you. Right. Just conversations as well. Building relationships. I love the fact I'm going to double tap on that whole slow down to build relationships thing, because you know how people just come in, they come rushing in, right, with their script and let's go 10:03 and boom, boom, boom, boom. All right, here's your prescription. Right?
- [36:33]
B
Well, here's, here's. What I'm saying is some people are still operating at the speed at which we were busy in 2020 and 2021, and they're treating people that way and they rush them on and off. Even when you're taking an application, are you slowing down? Because the reality is that maybe the one customer you talked to that day, for a lot of loan officers, it is one a day. Yeah. Imagine if you went so deep with them that they loved you and they already where they did something or not. Said, Jeff is my guy. Like, if I have mortgage questions, anyone asked me about a mortgage solution question problem, I'm gonna refer them to Jeff. We don't go deep enough with that.
- [37:06]
A
Such a good point. I think that's a good thing to put a cap on this conversation. Go deeper, slow down to build relationships. Pick one thing you can get better at. 30 minutes a day. Right. Get around other people who can help level you up, just like today. So for people who want to connect with you, where do you suggest the best place for them to go?
- [37:23]
B
New revamped website, man. Shout out to our team, Brit and the crew there. Www.briancovey.com. it's got the book, it's got the podcast, it's got a new coaching group that we're launching. It's got everything about Revolution Mortgage. A lot of great resources. It's everything from even, you know, 10x health. I share some of my health journey. So if you're into that stuff, I put everything on there, Jeff, just in a way that I go, man, what do people ask me about? What are the things that I've been learning over the last 10 plus years? And so the site, it's got it all hit us up if something's resonated.
- [37:50]
A
We'Ll link that up in the show notes as well as LinkedIn, because you also do some great content on LinkedIn as well. So we'll link it all up in the show notes. Brian, this has been awesome. I'm glad we made time for it.
- [37:59]
B
Dude, thanks for coming to Nashville. This has been awesome. Appreciate it.
- [38:01]
A
Oh, my pleasure. You know what to do, people. If you're listening and you like this show, leave us a review. All right, we'll see you on the next one.