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- [00:00]
A
Are you working harder than ever and still falling behind? Hey, you're not alone. In today's market, many loan officers I talk to are feeling a little bit burnt out, right? And they're putting in a lot more effort than the normal return they're getting. So they're making a fraction of the income and putting in four times the effort with little to show. And if you've been feeling ignored by realtors, maybe you feel like you're stuck in a slump or questioning how long you can keep this up. This episode is for you. You're listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio, the podcast where we help mortgage loan officers not just survive, but thrive and succeed in a modern mortgage world. My name is Jeff Zimfer. I'm your host, and I'm here to help you cut through the noise, build real referral relationships that are profitable and grow a modern mortgage business that lasts and one you enjoy. Today on the show, we're asking the hard question, why are many loan officers struggling right now? And why are some doing well? And what can you do to fix it? And to help us answer that, I'm joined by legendary real estate coach Tom Ferry, who's coached the top 1% of agents for many, many, and knows exactly what it takes to win in any market. So in this episode, we're going to talk about why your ego might be killing your momentum. We're going to unpack how to show real value with agents when they won't take your calls and you get ghosted. And what is the mindset, the action, and the skill sets that it actually takes to stand out in a commoditized industry. We're also going to dive into some simple, tactical ways to shift your mindset, position your expertise, and start building realtor partnerships that stick even when the market's stacked against you.
- [01:31]
B
So.
- [01:31]
A
So if you're ready to stop struggling and start building momentum, stay with us. This episode is for you.
- [01:48]
C
So what do you think the biggest challenge is from agents and lenders in this market?
- [01:52]
B
I would say, broadly, it would be like four times the work for, you know, 25% of the. Of the income. It's a hard pill to swallow.
- [02:01]
C
How do you respond? How did you know dealing with the frustration or the pushback on not adapting to the new world of, like, you know, where the consumer is now and is going. And I've heard you use this term in the past called fading winner. Yeah, right.
- [02:14]
B
They all struggle with it. And what I tell people is whether you're a brand new agent or you're at the top of your game. First, I have a lot of empathy for how hard it is to run a business to do what you do and then try and add something new.
- [02:29]
C
How relevant or important do you think it is for a loan officer? You know, I think you've said a couple of times, solve problems, right? For real estate agents and what are the problems they need to solve? He said, look, if you just help realtors do three things, help them learn the strategies to get more clients, to stay more relevant to what's working, and to be more efficient with their systems and processes. Tom, welcome back to the show.
- [02:50]
B
Jeff, congrats, man. What are we, like, 370 shows in now?
- [02:54]
C
A lot. It's a labor of love, as you know, anything when it comes to content, when you're doing it for nine years, 100%, I think.
- [03:00]
B
I was. I got on YouTube in 2007, and I haven't stopped, really. It's crazy.
- [03:04]
C
I give you credit. Funny story about that is I was on YouTube. This is the big mistake I made, I think, in 2000, right around the same time. And then it was so difficult, I stopped, right? I'm just like, let me just do podcasts. What a mistake.
- [03:19]
B
Now we can talk about the mistakes. So 2004, I start my company, right, left. My pops started this new business, and I was like, okay, how can I reach people? I've got 5,000 people in my database and growing, you know, every single day. Launch my silly little first website, and I started doing audio messages. But we didn't call them podcasts back then. It's just I would record an audio message with one of those old, like, globe things, like, directly into my laptop. And then we would email. It was every day an everyday show. Hey, you know, today's August 7th. Yeah, you know, whatever the year is. Super excited to be talking today. The message of the day is who the thought is. I did that for, like, three years. Then I'm like, 2007 hits. And I'm on the golf course, and my buddy, who's still a great friend today, Ed park, says, hey, man, do you want to play golf with me and my pal? And like, Ed is a very eclectic individual. And I was thinking, if you're listening to the show, you know, I love you, but, like, four hours on the golf course with Ed, I was like, that's a lot of time. And then his buddy popped up and he's like, hey. I'm like, hey, I'm Tom. Nice to meet you. And he's like, oh, I'M David. I'm like, david, what do you do? He's like, hey, I work at Google. And I was like, ah, kind of a big company. I go, silicon Valley, New York, you know, Sydney, where are you? He's like, new York? I'm like, oh, you're a media guy. And he's like, yeah. I go, what do you do there? And he goes, I'm in charge of the homepage. I was like, well, let me grab your bag. Put you on my golf cart.
- [04:35]
C
Exactly.
- [04:35]
B
And he literally, I don't know, three holes in, he's like, tell me about your business. You know, what are you doing? Are you blogging this, that? And I was like, to be honest, man, I'm doing these audio messages and it's really been good. And he. He turned to me and he goes, audio messages suck. I was like, I was devastated, Jeff. I was like, what do you. I do this for like three years every day, and I'm building up my audience. And he's like, what you're doing sucks. And he's like, we bought this company called YouTube.
- [04:59]
C
Oh, wow.
- [05:00]
B
You should go get a camera and you should switch to YouTube. So that was like, I don't even remember, like, July 17, right? Like, whatever. It was 2007. I went that night, I think went to Radio Shack. Brandon, do you know what a Radio Shack shout out. I went to Radio Shack and I was like, I need a camera for YouTube. And it wasn't like one of these, you know, super fun video cameras.
- [05:23]
C
Classic.
- [05:24]
B
Yeah, I got a bunch of those. And I think that actually still has, like a memory chip inside it. We should probably pull those out. It probably does. And. And that was like, the rest is history.
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C
And so you just switched that fast that day.
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B
And I knew as, you know, doing what you do, I knew like, two years in, I won't name the competitor that called me and said, you need to stop. I remember was like, coming from LA, I'm down, coming down the 405. And I'm like, I need to stop. Like, what are you talking about? He's like, you need to stop giving away everything that we're all charging 300, 400, 500 for, and you're giving it all away for free. And I was like, okay, noted. Totally appreciate your feedback and look, look forward to seeing you the next gig, whatever. It's like, I hang up and I called my wife and I'm like, well, that answers that. We're doing the right thing. We're doing the right thing. Like, this is this Is gonna work out.
- [06:14]
C
Exactly. Wow, that's. That's amazing story. You're on the golf course. This guy's like a little something called YouTube.
- [06:19]
B
Yeah. You might want to look into it. I was like, no, I like how he said, we just bought a little company called YouTube. And I was like, I remember, like, Charlie bit my finger. You know, the. The dance dance video? And I was like, I don't know about. Will agents and loan officers go on there and watch?
- [06:34]
C
Right, right.
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B
I was like, okay, I think I'm just gonna go for it.
- [06:36]
C
Do people log on and actually watch videos right now? As you know, it's like living room, you know, that's where the wasps.
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B
YouTube TV.
- [06:42]
C
Right, exactly. That's a great story. Okay, let's get into. So obviously our audience today is loan officers and real estate agents. Kind of the theme for today is how loan officers and agents can team up and create confident home buyers in a waiting for rates to drop market.
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B
Sure.
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C
So let's do a reality.
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B
Can we just say in any market.
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C
In any market. Right. No.
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B
Yeah.
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C
As you know, this market has some extra challenges, which we're going to talk about. Sure. But let's. Let's talk about what you think, because you obviously have an incredibly wide lens and a deep lens with your coaching clients. So what do you think the biggest challenge is from agents and lenders in this market?
- [07:15]
B
I would say, broadly, it would be like four times the work for, you know, 25% of the. Of the income. It's a hard pill to swallow, but, like, Jeff, we're in year. Well, we're what, 33 months in to six and a half to seven and a half interest rates. So it's not that dissimilar from, say, 2009 to 2012. Right. Like, we had a couple years where we felt like we were like crawling through glass and. And, you know, everything was just different and hard coming off two and a half percent interest rates and the pandemic environment at 6.9 million transactions, you know, times two. Right. It was just this crazy experience. And now here we are kind of more in that Slam it out, fight it out. The, you know, the top is the consolidation is happening everywhere. Like the number of agents that are listing and selling all the houses. It's like 90,000 people are literally controlling 61% of the market in the first six months. So. So it's just. It's harder. But. But the thing I keep saying everybody is, man, if it was easy, like, there'd be 3 million agents and there'd be, you know, a few million more loan officers. This is the time in history when all businesses that are going to become great in the next market, this is where the market's made. So I know that's not encouraging for anybody to hear other than I just did a research piece and I think for my friend listening, I would encourage you to do the same on your local marketplace. So I was obsessed with what can I say to my clients? To give them not just like a glimmer of hope, but like the harsh truth about what happens in the real estate market, the cycles of it. So I did this, you know, chatgpt, grok perplexity. I went across all three and I'm like, basically, I forget what my exact problem. What I wanted to know was, over the last five decades, what was causing home price appreciation? What caused the market to turn and go down? How long were we in the trough? What were the main triggers? But I want to know decade by decade. So, so I can look not and just say, hey, 2007, eight, nine, we're kind of. But instead, you know, in 1981, when the rates were like 19%, you know, what happened was. And then in the economy, and then we boomed again. So what's fascinating is the number one thing I got from it is every market recovers. And the only question for the, maybe for our friend listening is, where are we in that cycle? And, and what we know is if you do the right activities today, if you're making more conversations, building more relationships, following up, because sales cycles are longer, you know, for two or three years, if you're doing all those right things, you're basically putting yourself in a place of momentum. And you and I both know there's. There's no standing still in business, right? You're there in momentum or you're losing momentum. And, and I guess what I say sort of broadly to everybody is you have to do today three, four times the work to get the same pay you used to get. But I promise you, by putting those reps in now, when the market turns, if I can get you to just keep doing two times the rep, you'll make four times the money. So it's just, it's just the hard truth.
- [10:25]
C
So it's longevity. Like, you know, one of the key plays we gotta, we gotta run is just stick with it. Don't give up.
- [10:31]
B
I mean, you know what I say to everybody? What's your alternative? How many months can you go right now without a paycheck? I mean, really, like, how many months can you go? So, I mean, if you, if you got, if you got 24 months in, like, turn this podcast off and, you know, just go sit on the beach and do whatever you want to do. And like, when the rates go back to like 5.6 and 5.9, which they always do, right? And then, and then everybody becomes a loan officer and everybody becomes an agent and you're, you're basically back in that rat race again. So, so I say this is the time where the best people separate themselves from everybody else because they're just willing to put their head down and do the work. I don't mean to overcoach here, but I have like, so many because I'm getting ready for my annual conference. So I've got all this research in my head and all these points, but, like, try this on. It's the choice, Jeff. It's the choice that people have to make today. Are they going to choose ego or economics? And I say choose economics over ego. You and I both know because of our background, right, like, the ego is lazy. The ego is trying to protect you from things that aren't going to happen and fear and, you know, like saber toothed tigers coming out of the woodworks and trying to kill us. The ego doesn't want you to make phone calls. The ego says things like, at this point in my career, really, really, I have to do that? Like, really, if I have to talk to one more agent or one more loan officer or one more buyer, one more seller. So the ego is just saying all these things to you that are just suppressing you from actually going to do the work. So what? I'm literally like, I was talking to one of my clients. She's 87 years old. Her name is Maxine Gallons. Shout out to Maxine down in La Jolla having another banger year. She's been selling real estate, I think, longer than I've been alive. And I've been her coach for like 27 years. And I, and I literally say to her, like, I know you don't need to work financially.
- [12:17]
C
Yeah.
- [12:17]
B
You know, you were passed out a long time ago. But I know the things that drive you, and I won't disclose that on the show, but, like, I know the things that drive you. So you have to make the choice, like, is your ego going to win today or is it going to be the economics? And the economics is real simple. Do whatever it takes to help the client and get the money. Yeah, do whatever it takes, as long as it takes. Whatever it takes. And the Ego says, I don't like shooting videos. The ego says, my customers don't want to get a text message from me. Your ego says, you know, direct mail doesn't work because I tried it once or, you know, doing events or, you know, all these new agents. Your ego is just constantly criticizing, complaining, and comparing. Show me one area in your life where those three things create joy, create happiness, create growth in your business. It. It doesn't.
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C
So it's a. It's a head game to some degree, right? To battle that.
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B
It's always a head game.
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C
It's.
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B
I mean, my son sells houses in Hoboken, New Jersey. And so this morning I'm talking to him, and he's like, I got the offer accepted and he's all fired up, right? He's got to do two deals before he gets to my event. And I was like, hey, if you can't. I always. I lovingly tell him, like, if you can't, you got to change your last name. Like, it's just, you know, this ain't working, man. But. But he tells me. He's like. He's like, man, I got this deal on escrow, and it looks like it's going to go well. And, like, I'm really excited. And, yeah, I've been working so hard. I'm like, stephen, I don't want to hear it.
- [13:41]
C
You can hear it.
- [13:42]
B
I don't want to hear it. It's so. It's so easy. Yeah, it's so easy to take a small victory and shut it down. And we're in an environment today where a small victory isn't enough. I mean, I'm preaching to the choir, right? Like, every loan officer knows what I'm talking about, right? You know that this is the market where you basically secure as many transactions as you can, because when the market turns, your refi business makes you all your money, right? And like that. I mean, it's. It's. It's rich and kind of rich, and then it's really rich, and it's kind of rich. So if you don't do it now, we all know what happens.
- [14:17]
C
Wow, there's a lot in there. Okay. So it makes me curious real quick. I'm going to take a side. Side route here about Maxine. Okay. Or other agents that have been around a long time. Because I was doing an event the other day, we talk about that, and there's an agent in the room who was, quote, unquote, successful. Right. And I'm curious, you know, because you interact with so many different people. How do you respond? How did you know? Dealing with the frustration or the pushback on not adapting to the new world of, like, you know, where the consumer is now and is going. And I've heard you use this term in the past called fading winner. Yeah, Right. So I'm curious about somebody like Maxine. Like, because she's, you know, I mean, you're saying, Maxine, you don't want to get on. Does she even need to get on video? You know what I mean?
- [14:58]
B
She. Okay, so, so.
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C
Or to do the modern things, right? Because she's got this base of such a long history of clients.
- [15:03]
B
Of course I got so many thoughts because, Max, I mean, you know, I mean, literally in the last 24 hours, two of the top brokers in Beverly Hills, right, who are great friends and great clients, right? I won't be a name dropper, but you would know who they are. The number one person in Newport beach and Laguna beach who's a longtime client and friend, Maxine, right. I won't say the name, but another New York City, like, I have clients everywhere, right? The number one guy in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, who I spoke to this morning, they all struggle with it. And what I tell people is whether you're a brand new agent or you're at the top of your game first, I have a lot of empathy for how hard it is to run a business to do what you do and then try and add something new. So I don't knock anybody for it. I get it. I mean, man, this year we changed all the systems, all the software in my company and Brandon, was it fun? No, thank you very much. My producer's like, no, it still drives me insane. But I know on the other side of it, you know that the efficiencies, the gains, it's all going to be there, but going through it is hard. So I have a lot of empathy for people that know that they should maybe redo their bio for AI, know that they should be blogging today to show up in the world of AI search, geo versus SEO, know that they should redo their website, know that they should make their calls. But, like, I have empathy for. It's hard. It's hard to do all this stuff and it's hard to balance, you know, how much content you put out, how much time you get with your friends, spouse. I'm married. I got two. Two boys that are, you know, young men now. Like, I got all my pals and I got my team and I got officers. It, it's, it's hard. So I guess my first thing is one, I have empathy for him.
- [16:44]
C
Okay.
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B
Then I say to most people, I just say, look, you don't have a time management problem. You don't. Right. You have a prioritization problem. So can we. Can we narrow down the priorities to maybe just one or two things that this year we can really do well and. And stop trying to do 50 little things throughout the year and let's pick like one or two, and if we can just pick the right one or two, and then we can go really deep on those one or two, what'll happen is in 26, you're going to look back and go, wow, that was another, you know, 30 million in loans or, you know, $30 million in volume for an agent. So. So I a. I have a lot of empathy because it is hard. I run a business. You run a business. It's hard. Right? Anybody that says otherwise is lying their ass off. You don't have a time management issue. It's prioritization. You got to pick one or two priorities. What's going to get you the most leverage? What's going to get you the most growth? What's going to get your brand to be the biggest? What's going to get you the most money? Like, it's whatever the priority is. And then you got to pick those two, and you got to go all in on it, because that's what works right now.
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C
Yeah, it's a good strategy. Profit levers, focus. Because there's a lot we could do, but we can't do everything. So we got to pick the one thing that will have the most.
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B
Exactly. Exactly.
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C
Okay. All right. Awesome conversation there. Let's get back to loan officers and agents. Let's try this one. If you were a loan officer today, calling an agent, putting you on the spot, like, what would your pitch be? What would your approach? What would you say? Let's say this is an agent who you don't yet have a relationship with. Maybe you closed the deal six months ago, you know, but, you know, they're a player and you want to get some. Some time with this agent. What's the value? Prop.
- [18:20]
B
Okay, so in fairness. So I coach 1700 title execs, and I personally, right in. In some groups, some group, same exact thing. The person I say is just acknowledge that what you offer is a commodity that they could go to pretty much any other title company and essentially get the same air. Right. For the same price. And I say the same things to my mortgage friends. I'm like, look, you know, we're all, we're all selling the same commodity and you know, commodity even for you. And I like time for someone to watch our show. Right? Like it's, it's commodity, it's been commoditized. So, so the thing that I say is first and foremost, before I go see a prospect, I go to ChatGPT, I go to Grok, I go to whatever, my favorite thing, and I'm like, tell me the history of Jeff, tell me everything I need to know about him, right? Tell me like everything you can find online to give me an opportunity to build a relationship. Because until you can build rapport, connect with them on something that's interesting, go a little bit deeper and not talk about their last transaction, which is whatever. Oh, I saw you recently took a listing. Congratulations. Like, okay, you're like the ninth person that said the same thing to me. You with me? So I want to find something that's different and unique and stands out because what I offer is a commodity. So here's what I know and if you can connect with this, it will help you tremendously. It is so hard to be a good agent in today's environment. And every loan officer knows the same thing, so I could say the same. But we're talking about agents. If a good agent is with you, their phone is ringing non stop. They're putting out fires every single day. Every one of their sellers is pissed because they didn't get enough showings last week. Right. All their buyers are also being marketed to by somebody else. And even though you have a buyer brokerage agreement, signed it like, it's just, it's, it's very challenging. So the game is, can I identify a Trojan horse that I can show up with, sneak in and offer some real solutions to their problems? It's the only way I've been able to like create substantial large business relationships. I identify they have this problem, I've got a solution. But you can't just walk in and go, hey, you know, problem, I got a solution. Because that's it. That's the usp, right? That's the oldest pitch on the planet. So I guess what I would say to the, to the, you know, loan officer is do your research on this person, go to their Zillow profile, go to their business page. Not to observe what is great, but to observe what is missing.
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C
Right?
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B
See, if you just took the example of geo generative engine optimization versus search engine optimization, if you took the time to actually look at, there are certain websites that when I do A search for, like, old school Google, you know, like best real estate agent near me, right? And what do you know? You get, you get Zillow, Realtor Homes, Redfin, right? Like, that's what you get every time. But if I go to Perplexity and I type in like, they don't type in best Realtor near a mirror. They're like, I have an oceanfront house in Corona del Mar and I'm thinking about selling my home and I'm looking for somebody that specializes in five to $10 million properties in my area who can really do a banger job. Like, what do you got? That's how people talk to, like AI today, right? And when that happens, they're going to show up or they're not. And if you can, show the agent how to show up and I can give you the hack. You ready? It's two things. Number one, they love structured contact all search engines. They're as lazy as we complain about some people. You got to make it easier for them. Ready? So the agent you want to work with doesn't have a profile on Fast Expert, doesn't have the right profile on Zillow, on their Google business page, on Instagram, Facebook, all LinkedIn, all this stuff. But specifically, this is the funny part. Yelp, which most of us hate because Yelp is basically just, it's the negative review site. But if an agent can be positioned to be one of the top 10 agents in that zip code in that county, in that city, which they can, can pretty easily on Yelp, right? If they're on that list. Now, you just help that agent generate more opportunity. If you get them to sign up on Fast Expert, they're going to get more opportunity. You with me on this? Not because those sites are incredible. It's just for whatever reason, the AI search seems to look for structured content. Top 10 lists. What I tell the really good agents, by the way, and really good loan officers, is if I'm a loan officer, let's say I've got a team of like eight loan officers on my team, I'm going to publish once a month the top eight loan officers in Orange County, California, and it's only going to be my eight salespeople, and the order rank will just change over and over again. And I'm going to take that blog and I'm going to publish on my Google business page, my website, and on my LinkedIn profile. And then guess what happens the next time someone who's the best mortgage loan, you know, you're going to show up because they love lists, they love structured content. So. So if I'm a loan officer, I'm going to use that as a tool. The second thing is to acknowledge that the AI, the way it works, at least today, Jeff, and you know, we're, we're timestamping this is today. If your bio says, for example, this is why I do this all the time. When I get like, hey, will you talk to this guy? And like, have a conversation with this gal? And I'm like, sure. I go to their Instagram bio and it's like, you know, mom, dog lover, you know, love puzzles, enjoy wine, sell houses now and then. Right, Right. And then I'm like, wait a minute, like, you're the number 13 agent in the state. Like, why doesn't it say, you know, 22 years of helping buyers and sellers sold more than 4,000 properties have over 800 five star reviews. Now, I just gave you pretty much the exact bio that they should have because the AI is lazy. So if I'm like, who's the best agent in my marketplace? They're going to go, well, Jeff has 800 transactions, 355 star reviews, Jeff's going to show up on the list. Does that make sense? So, so not only does their bio need to shift, I would walk in with a problem that the agent didn't know that they have.
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C
Right?
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B
And here's what's interesting. I was talking to Neil Patel about this. If you don't follow Neil Patel, you should N E I L and then Patel P A T E L. He bought a company called answerthepublic.com, which I've been obsessed with forever. And I was actually really excited that he bought it. Neil and I were chatting about the. The reality is today, if you look at the way generative engine optimization works, you might only get a tiny amount of traffic to your website from it, but the intent is so strong. Now I'm giving you Neil's quote that it represents like 50% of the transactions that you do from this tiny amount of search. Because the person searching on AI has such high intent. So I'm taking my kids and my wife and we're going to go to Europe after the my event. So I go to Google and I'm like, you know, what are the top 10 things I should do when I go to, you know, this part of Europe, right? And you get a stupid list of offers and recommendations, and each one of those, there's another click and it's Google's so antiquated I do the same exact thing in Grok and it's like, you know, I'm like, hey, you know who I am. You know, I'm into cool, fun things. I'm going to be in Marbella, Spain. Where should I go? Well, you should definitely check out the new Nobu app. You know, and it's, it gives you like all this real world actionable insight, right? More context. That's what's happening right now. So if I'm a loan officer. Long answer. I'm going to take this to the agent, but I'm not going to take it to a brand new agent. I'm going to take it to the mid tier agent that doesn't get a lot of, they don't get a lot of love you with me. Like they've, they've had three listings sold and like seven buyer sales this year. They're in the hunt of the 400,000 that are controlling the industry. But the very highest producer. I'm going to get some success with these people and then I'm going to work my way up. That would be my approach.
- [25:59]
C
Okay.
- [25:59]
B
Long answer. Sorry.
- [26:00]
C
No, that's, that's good. That was, that was a nice ride.
- [26:02]
A
Hey, are you tired of cold calling.
- [26:04]
C
Realtors and feeling like you're getting nowhere? With my agent classes, you don't have.
- [26:08]
A
To chase agents anymore.
- [26:09]
C
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- [26:11]
A
System of ready to teach presentations, plug.
- [26:13]
C
And play marketing, and even 200 producing agents to invite. So you can double your agent referrals.
- [26:18]
A
In 90 days or less.
- [26:19]
C
Plus you'll get weekly coaching and a community of loan officers sharing exactly what's working right now. Here's a quick win from one of our members.
- [26:28]
D
I joined it because I was tired of doing business the way that regular loan officers have been doing it in my market, which is just making the, the core calls every Monday and Friday checking in with real estate agents. I had done that for years and it seemed like everybody was doing that. I needed something different and I wanted to find a way that I could work with the agents that I want to work with. I wanted to find a way that I could have a captive audience every month, every couple of weeks where I could find agents that were like minded and that wanted to work with me as well. So it's probably brought in, I'm just guessing here, but it's probably brought on in the three years I've been back with the program. It's probably brought on, I'd probably say about $40 million in volume since then, right? And it's led to some massive relationships. And I wouldn't be able to do those things without this program. The value of these Friday calls are so incredibly valuable for all of us. I get upset if I miss it on a Friday. The cost of this program is, is worth it just because of these Friday calls that we're on where we help coach each other. We're just here to help each other add value to our realtor partners.
- [27:30]
C
Are you ready to stop chasing and start attracting agent referrals on demand? Book a call at Mortgage Marketing Pro or hit the link in the show notes.
- [27:38]
A
Now back to our show.
- [27:39]
C
And so what I'm hearing in there, let me try and bring this down for us to perhaps take and put into action is. And I think you're 100% right, because this is what I've seen work. So let's give something tactical so how this would play out in the real world would be. Let's take that idea you just shared about how to show up in AI related. Search the various sites. I guess what we're saying, let me ask it this way, is how relevant or important do you think it is for a loan officer? I think you've said a couple of times, solve problems for real estate agents. And what are the problems they need to solve? Remember, you remember Walter Sanford? Right? Right, right.
- [28:13]
B
There you go.
- [28:13]
C
There's a shout out from the back in the day.
- [28:15]
B
So walking on water in Long Beach, California.
- [28:17]
C
Right? So Walter told me he, when I was, you know, an originator, he said, look, if you just help realtors do three things, help them learn the strategies to get more clients, to stay more relevant to what's working, and to be more efficient with their systems and processes. Like, and that's what you just laid out there. It's an idea that I can bring to an agency. Say, hey, were you aware that this is the new search? Right on it. No. What is that?
- [28:40]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [28:41]
C
Like, if you think that would be a viable pitch for a loan officer listening or watching right now. Like, if you just did your research and prepared a quick little, you know, talking point around that maybe you did a dm, whatever it is, maybe did a call, I don't know.
- [28:54]
B
It's no different from 100%. It's no different from an agent today that would call an expired listing and be like, jeff, I was on looking at your property, you know, in the MLS and there was like seven misses and whether you choose to hire me to, you know, to fill the hole and actually get the property sold at the minimum, I'd love to get like five minutes with you just to show you of the 10 things that you have to have to market a property in today's environment, your agent missed like seven of them. Right. Just that kind of hook. That's, that's so shout out to all of FNF, which is Fidelity Financial. That's who I'm coaching. Those 1700 title execs. And this is the exact kind of stuff we're working on with them. And they're look, we're in a very flat market.
- [29:32]
C
Yeah.
- [29:33]
B
And they're getting increase in agents that are doing more transactions, AKA more title and escrow for them, another mortgage, etc. They're getting a nice lift by going into agents offices or making phone calls and identifying a very specific problem that they can bring a solution to. And you know, does it always get you the business? No. But hey, but that's the game, right? That's the game.
- [29:54]
C
Yeah. I mean you're never going to again get 100%. But it's also a different pitch than most people are showing up with.
- [29:58]
B
Exactly.
- [29:59]
C
You know, which is the coffee, the what I want to learn about your business. Right. All that stuff.
- [30:03]
B
Hey, do you want to know the rates? Right. No, I can't get those anywhere. I'm good, thanks.
- [30:10]
C
Let me guess, they're flat.
- [30:11]
B
Yes.
- [30:12]
C
Right. I love the answer. Which is rates are going to do one of three things. Go up, stay the same or go down.
- [30:16]
B
Right?
- [30:16]
C
Yes, that's.
- [30:17]
B
And by the way, every day, come on, seven. Right. Like we're all rolling the dice. Do you know the app Palm Agent?
- [30:24]
C
I've heard you talk about it many times. Yeah.
- [30:26]
B
For every loan officer, check out Palm Agent. So my buddy Jeremy Davis, funny, his mom was a real estate agent. For every holiday like 400 years ago in Texas, came home one day to her husband who's a preacher and says, you know, talking to buyers, it's just really hard for me to, you know, get this. And it's always sometimes hard. This is, you know, this is like 26 years ago. It's hard for me to call my loan officer and you know, actually I paged him, the beeper went off. I haven't got a response yet. Like it was during those times. So now he's got this calculator and there's hundreds of calculators. We don't want agents to become loan officers. We don't want that. But we want an agent to be able to say, well, hey, we'll write this offer if we get a 2, 1, buy down. This is what it means. And that if we can make this adjustment, this is what it means. Right. And it just empowers agents. And that's one of those like obvious misses that a lot of loan officers, like, well, I don't want to give that power away. Right. Because that's my thing. No, you're actually empowering them to be able to educate their buyers and sellers. Right. In this case, they're really their buyers and like that's a match made in heaven. And I'm not an investor, I don't own the company. But I think I'm responsible for getting, I don't know, 100,000 people on that app just in the last two years.
- [31:35]
C
Nice.
- [31:35]
B
Because I'm just, I'm obsessed with. The consumer wants free, perfect. And right now. And if I can't do free, I got to do as close as I can to perfect and I got to do it right now. And that app, things like Land Glide, right. Which is another cool app. Like, what about that house? Like who owns that house? And the agent's like, like, I don't know, it's a bad idea. But you go to Land Glide, you literally like, oh, that's actually owned by Tom Ferry.
- [31:57]
C
No way. Really?
- [31:58]
B
I mean it's, it's like every lot in the United States. Every, every, every plot of land in the United States, whether it's LLC or whatever it is, but like those kind of tools that a loan officer could bring to an agent to make them more empowered, more intelligent, learning, look better in front of their customers and ultimately, you know, I don't know, help more, help more clients, do more deals.
- [32:17]
C
Okay, let me, let me.
- [32:18]
B
I don't, I don't own either one of those companies I want to acknowledge, but I love them. I know.
- [32:22]
C
Jeremy, I hope it doesn't sound self serving for some of the people here, this, but we're talking about helping loan officers get in front of real estate agents. Right. And I know you're a big believer in the one to many approach. Right. Because you can cold call like, you know, you can slug it out. But I remember when I first started with agents, I needed to get in front of as many agents as I possibly could. Right. Because it's a numbers game.
- [32:45]
B
Yep.
- [32:45]
C
Right. You're going to get the good, the bad and all that kind of stuff. So what do you think about the idea of a loan officer building this platform? Right. I always talk about, they're running for mayor, right. So they've got to become well known. You Know the whole thing. But they're leveraging this platform of, like we mentioned earlier, teaching agent classes with these ideas we're talking about here, of course, solving problems, problems with these ideas, one to many. Is that a viable, you think, for an ELO who wants to scale their reach?
- [33:09]
B
Well, it hasn't worked for me.
- [33:11]
C
Right, yeah.
- [33:12]
B
The, the answer is, of course. And, and then I know what happens is the ego pop. I'm not really good in front of people.
- [33:18]
C
Why would an agent listen to me?
- [33:20]
B
And, you know, why would an agent listen to me? Well, if I do an invitation and nobody shows up, right. Who said it? It was something like, you'll never regret going, going, right? Like Jeff invites me to go climb a mountain. You're never going to regret that. You know, like Brandon says, hey, let's, let's try this new idea. You're never going to regret that. The only thing you're going to regret is inaction. Sitting on the couch doing nothing. You're always going to regret that. So I'm a huge fan. Whether it's on Zoom or Face to Face or you call a broker manager and say, could I come deliver this to your agents? You know, to the mls, to the board, to the association. There's many, so, so many ways to reach people. The only thing I'm going to caution the loan officer on is to be very, very mindful of who you're trying to attract. Because if you just put it out there. So here, here's. I don't know if you've seen this stat, but I, because of my partnership with fnf, I get access to some pretty incredible real time data. So in the first six months of the year, 1,065,000 agents have done no closings.
- [34:21]
C
Really.
- [34:21]
B
Now, Jeff, if you and I were business partners, we're not going to put both MLS IDs in. So I say, all right, between teams, business partners, there's only 1400 teams, like really in the country, but there's a lot of husband, wife, mom and dad, son, yada, yada, yada, yada. So I say take, take a hundred thousand off that. But that still means there's 965,000 people that have not had a closing this year. So when we oftentimes advertise or push the word out, who's most likely to show up?
- [34:49]
C
People got the free time, right?
- [34:51]
B
People that have time, right. So again, I think it's very important to message. Who is your message for? Who is it not for? So if you want to do a thing called you know, come one, come all new agents. Let me show you how. Like, that's okay, right? But then what happens is the message is now for them, right? And if a top producer shows up, they're like, what am I doing in this room? Do you know Craig suing?
- [35:13]
C
Sure. Yeah.
- [35:14]
B
Craig's longtime buddy, former loan officer, built a show called American Dream TV. So just for. I've invested like 125 companies. That's why I sell people. I'm very, I'm very transparent. Like, with like, these are all companies that I wish I bought. But Craig has done a wonderful job. And so he will go into a marketplace anywhere in the US they go in the MLS and they're like, here's the top 50 people. Hey, we have something that is exclusive for only someone at your level that wants to elevate their brand. You know, come join us for a three hour session to learn how you could be on tv, what that would look like, how it impact your business. And we'll have lunch. And every city he goes to, he gets 20, 25, you know, 30 people. But they're all people that are doing a lot of business. And those people are all looking to create some degree of separation between themselves and the next agent to the right or left, the ones that are actually selling houses. A mortgage is a commodity. And you can make the argument today when you get to the top of all these great agents, they've also been commoditized. I can go to Zillow and I can find 20 agents in my marketplace that have 30, 40, 50, 80, 100 reviews. So why this one versus that one? Right? So they're looking for that same degree of separation. So that's a good example of, you know, what if you did something that was so hyper focused that the only people that actually could do it would be an agent who has a marketing director, right? A team lead that has at least one person in charge of marketing in their business that you could literally say, come to this event. Actually, don't send your marketing director so he or she could learn how to ABC. 1, 2, 3. If you just push a message says just come one, come all, you know what you're going to get. So I'd say be very targeted today.
- [36:54]
C
I like that approach. And of course, smart strategy, you know very well, is team up with the top title reps in your local markets.
- [36:59]
B
100 and they know who has no escrows. Lots of escrows. Is growing, is not growing. So I mean, I'm a. It's funny Because I obviously have a lot of mortgage friends and I have this huge relationship with, you know, FNF, which it has like 50 brands across the US and literally when we go into marketplaces and we do events, it's both of them working in unison. And I'm constantly saying you all need to create better relationships. Yeah, right. Because you got your, like a good loan officer has 10, 15 really good model match agents where a good title, title escrow. They could have like 75 or 80.
- [37:32]
C
Yeah.
- [37:32]
B
You with me? So I'm like you, you all need to connect more.
- [37:36]
C
What I find is the loan officers actually don't have enough of the right model match.
- [37:39]
B
I'm with you. I'm with you. But I'm talking about like, you know, the. I was with J.J. mazzo yesterday. Right. He's got a new book coming out, so he was on my show and.
- [37:47]
C
Right.
- [37:47]
B
You know, I mean, you know, he's a baller.
- [37:50]
C
Yeah.
- [37:51]
B
He's a monster.
- [37:52]
C
Yeah, yeah. Ones are getting after it. Yeah. But, you know, and look, all due respect, but I talk to a lot of loan officers at various levels and oftentimes, you know, I'll ask them, how many agents are in your database? Right. Ten, you know.
- [38:02]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [38:03]
C
They're not even building their own database. Like they should be consumers. Right. And all that stuff, so.
- [38:08]
B
But again, I have empathy for them because it's.
- [38:09]
C
Yeah, it's.
- [38:10]
B
It's hard. It's hard.
- [38:12]
C
You ever heard the phrase it's all hard? Choose your hard.
- [38:16]
B
I think I have a T shirt that says that. Yes. I actually heard something this morning that really resonated, which was like, pain and suffering is the only way to grow. And it was the. It's the CEO of Nvidia. And he basically said, my whole culture is predicated around the joy and understanding of what pain and suffering provides. And it sounds horrible, but if you think about it like a startup is nothing but pain and suffering. Right. Start if you're, if you're a brand new loan officer in a marketplace. In a marketplace like this, there is nothing but pain and suffering. But outside of that, what do you get? Wisdom. You don't get wisdom from winning. You get wisdom from loss, from getting beat up, from having things not go your way, from making a thousand calls and getting only one. Yes. That's where all the insights come from. So it's, you know, easy to say. But listen, I'm eating my own dog food every day. I'm making calls and trying shit that is absolutely not working. And in many cases, Costing me a lot of money and time. But I know if I don't do. Do it, if I don't take the swing, you know, there's no standing still. You're either in momentum or you're losing it.
- [39:16]
C
Or green and growing.
- [39:17]
B
That's it.
- [39:18]
C
Ripe and rotting.
- [39:19]
B
That's right.
- [39:20]
C
I like. Do you have the embrace the sock T shirt yet or.
- [39:22]
B
I don't, but I do like that. We gotta get you that one. Yeah. So the whole office. Yeah, I love it. I love it.
- [39:29]
C
All right, we gotta land this plane here. So. Coming up, you are going to be at the Sales Mastery event with Todd Duncan October 14th through 17th in Dallas.
- [39:37]
B
Yes.
- [39:37]
C
For anybody listening or watching, what do you want to tell them if, like, they're thinking about coming? Why is this year different or special?
- [39:42]
B
First of all, I've been friends with Todd for a long time, and I'm super excited about the new partnership. And the fact that it's also down the street from where I live in Dallas does make it slightly easy.
- [39:51]
C
So.
- [39:51]
B
So you know what it is? This goes back to that earlier point. Right? There's no regret in going. Do you know what I mean? Like, I give people the example all the time because I go to conferences all the time. I attend a conference called abundance of 360. It happens in Los Angeles. It's run by a guy named Dr. Peter Diamandis. It's about AI, it's about robotics, it's about human longevity is absolutely nothing to do with my industry. But I go, because I know when I'm there for three days, it's not always what's being presented on the stage. It is just the fact that I finally have the time to sit and to think in an environment where everybody else is sitting and thinking about how to improve the quality of your business. Right. To make sure that you're on the cutting edge. I liken that to. When I talk to people like, hey, you should come to this event. They're like, tom, I was there. I was with you last year. And I'm like, well, has anything changed? You know, like, a lot has changed. And I'm like. And I tell my friends, like, you know, when you come to a Tom Ferry event, that it isn't always who's presenting on stage. It's who's in the room. It's the conversations at the breaks, it's the insights at dinner. Like, it's all of that. So, again, like I would say to you, it's the same thing coming to Dallas, coming to this Event, spending a bunch of time with a bunch of great people, meeting a bunch of new people, expanding your network, but mostly 2026, they say is going to be better, but it's only going to be better for the people that have the new tools. You know, you can't run this, like, if you're prepared. In every market cycle. Right. In every market cycle there is, there's fundamental plays at work, but now there's these new plays. And I would argue, like, a lot of what I'm going to be talking about is certainly generative engine optimization. And you know why now you need to not, like, delegate AI to somebody else on your team if you're not spending an hour a day right now doing deep search to understand the zeitgeist where things are going, how I can create more efficiency, how can I scale myself, how can I improve my brand, how can I be a better husband, how can I be a better friend? Like, everything is available.
- [41:46]
C
Yeah.
- [41:46]
B
Right. And I find that most, most people, first of all have a lot of these tools, like sitting, you know, three slides over on their iPhone. That's the first mistake. So. So I think again, there's what I'm going to talk about. There's what all the other great presenters are going to talk about, but it's really about being in the right room, having time to think, having time to plan, having time to strategize. Because I think 2026 for some of us is going to be like big wave surfing.
- [42:10]
C
Yeah.
- [42:11]
B
And for others, it's going to be a struggle.
- [42:13]
C
No, totally agree. Yeah. And you've got to have the skill set and the mindset to be able to put those ideas into action.
- [42:18]
B
100.
- [42:19]
C
Yeah. Love it. Okay, so that's October 14th through 17th. Dallas, I will be there. You'll be there with Todd, Duncan and so many other people as well. Hey, man, I know we're out of time, but I really, really appreciate this a lot.
- [42:28]
B
I appreciate you too, man. So episode 100 and now episode 370 something. And so congratulations too. And hey, for my friends out there, thanks for taking time to watch this. Jeff is the man you. He does a great job.
- [42:40]
C
Yeah. Thank you for tuning in, everybody. If you like this episode, hey, by the way, share it with a real estate agent who you work with or want to work with. Get some ideas here and leave us a review if you found value here. So appreciate it. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.
- [42:50]
A
Okay, that's it for today's episode. Before we wrap up I just wanted to remind you about my agent classes. Your proven system to double your agent referrals in just 90 days. Imagine never having to cold call again, instead building real lasting relationships with top producing agents who want want to send you business with done for you presentations, marketing automation, weekly coaching. It's all designed to make growing your business easier and fun. So if you're ready to take control of your agent referrals and grow your income, visit Mortgage Marketing Pro or check the link in the show notes. And while you're there, don't forget to check out the success stories from other mortgage pros who've already seen incredible results. Thanks for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.
- [43:32]
B
SA.