Mortgage Marketing Radio – Episode Summary

Episode: "Your Sales Process Is Broken! Here’s What Today’s Borrowers Actually Want"
Date: September 25, 2025
Host: Geoff Zimpfer
Guest: Jake Vermillion, CMO of Mortgage Champions

Overview

This episode dives deep into the disconnects plaguing today's mortgage sales process. Host Geoff Zimpfer sits down with Jake Vermillion, CMO of Mortgage Champions, to strip back the curtain on why traditional "apply now" tactics are eroding borrower trust, how loan officers can reposition themselves as true advisors, and where technology (especially AI) fits—and doesn't—in the modern mortgage experience. With practical, real-world advice honed from 30 years of Mortgage Champions’ training expertise, this episode is a blueprint for loan officers aiming to boost conversion, foster loyalty, and reinvent their role in a competitive market.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Misalignment of Sales and Marketing in Mortgage (03:01–05:37)

• Core Problem: Marketing tactics often urge borrowers to “apply now” before any trust is built. Sales, meanwhile, may try to take a more consultative role, but disconnects in messaging create friction and lost deals.

  • Quote:

    "If you haven't rethought the borrower experience since rates were in the threes, you're already behind." — Geoff Zimpfer (00:30)

• Surface Example: Lender websites lead with hard CTAs (e.g., form fills, requesting sensitive info) before building rapport, while loan officers may be encouraged to engage in more goal-oriented, consultative discussions.

• Key Consequence: When marketing drives a transactional experience but sales are attempting a relational one, borrowers lose trust and drop off.

2. Top Mistakes and Missed Opportunities Among Loan Officers (06:07–14:01)

• Perceived Barriers vs. Reality:

  • Many LOs blame "lack of inventory" or "affordability" for business challenges, but Jake argues these are misunderstood. Inventory per active LO is higher than in 2019, and buyers have more control than during the rate boom.
    • Quote:

      "Inventory is actually not nearly as much of a problem as you would think... On any given transaction, you're only really competing with one customer against other loan officers." — Jake Vermillion (06:21)

• Advisor Mindset: True differentiation lies in taking a holistic approach—advising on total financial health (e.g., debt consolidation, strategic down payments), not just quoting rates or rates/terms.

  • Quote:

    "Instead of...rushing rate to rate term things like that, take a pause...evaluate their total financial situation and see where the opportunities are for them to do some financial restructuring..." — Geoff Zimpfer (10:23)

  • Response:

    "A hundred percent." — Jake Vermillion (11:21)

• Order Takers vs. Advisors: Many originators default to quick prequalifications and letting borrowers "self-serve" via online links—believing it’s what customers want. Data shows trust and conversion dramatically increase when LOs walk borrowers through the application process directly.

• Critical Practice: Walk through the loan application in real time to foster trust, handle objections, and position yourself as a trusted advisor.

  • Quote:

    "Walking through an application together on the phone is a critical way to do that... slow down, it's not 2020, it's not 2021. You have time." — Jake Vermillion (13:05–14:01)

3. AI in Mortgage: Where Does it Belong, and Where Doesn’t it? (14:01–19:04)

• Strategic Use of AI: The conversation highlights the need to inject AI for efficiency and accuracy—but always as part of a human-driven process.

  • Quote:

    "You hear this phrase, a lot of human in the loop, right. I think it's the other way around...this is a human driven process that we need to be selectively and strategically injecting artificial intelligence into for efficiencies and for accuracy." — Jake Vermillion (14:56)

• Transactional vs. Emotional Questions:

  • Use AI/chatbots for FAQs, basic info, and appointment scheduling.
  • For emotionally resonant or complex questions (e.g., “Is now a good time for me to buy?” or selections on sensitive application areas), only humans should engage.

• Building Relationship: Even standard data-collection fields present a chance to build rapport (e.g., "What do you do for a living?" can turn into a deeper conversation about life goals, family, etc.).

  • Quote:

    "You can ask those questions in a different way...there are ways to build a connection with a customer if you just treat it the right way and don't just sort of check the box." — Jake Vermillion (17:33)

4. Consumer Direct vs. Retail LO: Context Shapes Conversation (20:28–26:39)

• Consumer Direct:

  • LOs in this channel must be skilled at quickly building credibility, overcoming the lack of a referral relationship, and working within tight timeframes/thin margins.
  • The opening 30 seconds are make-or-break—explain why you’re calling and what you offer.

• Retail/Referral-Based LO:

  • The call structure is more relaxed, but most fail to adequately edify or update their referral partners—a huge missed opportunity.
  • Edify both the referral partner and the process in front of the customer. Include the partner in communication throughout, not just at handoff.
  • Example process: After first call, cc the partner on follow-up emails, reinforce the “team” approach.
    • Quote:

      "The number one complaint we hear from realtors is they never feel like they know what's going on with...a buyer they've handed off..." — Jake Vermillion (26:03)

5. Architecting the Borrower Experience: From Fast Food to Michelin Star (26:39–29:03)

• Systemization Isn’t Limiting—It Liberates:

  • Drawing an analogy to Michelin-starred restaurants, Jake and Geoff argue that standout consumer experiences are built on intentional process and structure—not left to chance.
  • Systems don't create cookie-cutter LOs; they allow unique personalities and expertise to shine within a reliable framework.
    • Quote:

      "You can't tell me that any star quarterback in the NFL is exactly the same as another...and yet they've all used playbooks and operate within systems..." — Jake Vermillion (28:28)

• Conscious Process Design:

  • Every LO has a process—consciously crafted or not. Making it intentional and customer-driven is the difference-maker.
    • Quote:

      "You, it just may be terrible. You know what I mean? So how consciously have you thought about the process?" — Geoff Zimpfer (29:03)

6. Digital Experience and ‘Speed to Need’ (29:40–32:37)

• 'Apply Now' Fatigue:

  • Retail LOs relying on referred business don’t need impersonal forms front and center.
  • Respond immediately to every inquiry—even if it’s to state when you’ll follow up. In a slow market, losing even 10% via forms isn’t acceptable.

• Best-in-Class Digital Flow:

  • Ideal: When a prospect visits your site, they connect immediately with a trained human (LOA or rep), not just a chatbot—providing a “soft pre-qual” and personal introduction before passing to the LO.

7. Marketing That Sells: Seamless Alignment (32:37–33:42)

• Industry Uniqueness:
  • Unlike other industries, the mortgage “product” is uniquely tailored to each borrower—thus, mortgage marketing should follow the sales playbook, not generic product marketing.
  • Advice: Market the moments or explanations that actually make borrowers commit.
    • Quote:

      "If you don't know what you should be marketing, just think back to the last thing you said that really clearly changed the mindset of a borrower... Take that thing and put it in your marketing." — Jake Vermillion (33:42)

8. Rethinking Networking for Real Business Growth (33:59–40:11)

• Preview of "Rethink Everything" Series:

  • Jake shares his perspective on stepping out of the shadow of industry influencers (including his father) to build his own reputation and network.
  • Online Networking Is Critical: True business development is about creating an engaged network—not just a big audience.

• Principles for Digital Networking:

  1. Seek intelligence from your network—find the people you can serve and add value to; intelligence, not vanity metrics, drives results.

  2. Differentiate by listening and engaging, not just posting. Use AI to surface high-value contacts and meaningfully engage.

     • Quote:

       "I have...spreadsheet after spreadsheet of the type of people that I know I want to add value to...I check their profiles to see what they're up to and I leave a thoughtful comment or I send a message..." — Jake Vermillion (37:42)

  3. (Third principle: Read the upcoming book for more!)

9. AI in Personal Branding: Use, Don’t Abuse (41:42–43:12)

• Jake writes all his LinkedIn content himself, using AI minimally (mainly for typo checks), and suggests this will matter more as platforms identify AI-written content.
• Uses AI for research, but always “trust but verify.”
  • Quote:

    "You do have to treat [AI] like interns, if that makes sense. It's trust but verify. You absolutely have to verify." — Jake Vermillion (42:59)

10. Looking Forward: Trends and Optimism for 2026 (43:34–45:29)

• Rates expected to lower (don’t count on it as a savior, but be ready for increased demand).
• Predicts the “AI bubble” will burst, pushing the industry to focus on highly strategic, ROI-driven tech solutions.
• Younger loan officers entering the field = renewed energy.
  • Quote:

    "We should have nothing but enthusiasm for this industry in my opinion." — Jake Vermillion (45:01)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the real advisor role:

  "What sells is what markets in our business." — Jake Vermillion (33:42)

• On process design:

  "You have a process. You, it just may be terrible... So how consciously have you thought about the process?" — Geoff Zimpfer (29:03)

• On networking strategy:

  "I was most exposed to being controlled by whatever the algorithm wanted to show. What it does not control is whose content you choose to go out and see and engage with." — Jake Vermillion (41:13)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–03:01: Intro to the misalignment problem in sales/marketing
• 03:01–05:37: How borrower experience is fragmented; the importance of alignment
• 06:07–14:01: Common excuses, the inventory myth, moving from order taker to advisor
• 14:01–19:04: AI in the mortgage process: where it belongs, human vs. tech boundaries
• 20:28–26:39: Consumer direct vs. retail LOs; how context shapes conversion
• 26:39–29:03: Building a Michelin-star borrower experience with structure
• 29:40–32:37: Why 'apply now' forms kill retail relationships; digital best practices
• 32:37–33:42: Aligning sales and marketing messaging
• 33:59–40:11: Networking playbook, maximizing value from digital relationships
• 41:42–43:12: AI in personal content creation & research
• 43:34–45:29: Optimism and trends for 2026

Takeaways for Mortgage Professionals

• Rethink the entire borrower journey—move beyond “apply now” and transactional touchpoints.
• Position yourself as a mortgage advisor, not just an order taker.
• Human connection is irreplaceable—use AI to fill gaps, not lead key conversations.
• Architect processes intentionally; the best customer experiences are systematic, not accidental.
• Leverage networking as a true business development tool—prioritize relationships and intelligence over audience size.

Connect with Jake Vermillion:

• MortgageChampions.com
• Jake Vermillion on LinkedIn

For mortgage professionals ready to modernize their approach, this episode offers hard truths—and practical solutions—for outpacing the competition in 2025 and beyond.