Move It or Lose It | Episode 136 | Rock Tape: The many uses!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Move It or Lose It | Episode 136 | Rock Tape: The Many Uses!

Host: Kathy Chester
Guest: Dr. Steven Capobianco, Co-Founder of Rock Tape, Chiropractor
Date: August 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the origins, science, and expanding applications of Rock Tape—a leading brand of kinesiology tape. Host Kathy Chester is joined by Dr. Steven Capobianco, Rock Tape's co-founder, who discusses the product’s development, its original and evolving uses, and its particular relevance for people living with autoimmune conditions like Multiple Sclerosis (MS). The conversation is a blend of personal stories, science-backed explanations, and practical advice for patients and clinicians alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The History and Development of Rock Tape

• Origins: Dr. Capobianco explains that kinesiology tape dates back to the late 1970s, originally developed by Dr. Kenzo Kase.
  • “I was using another form of kinesiology tape... It just wasn’t lasting.” (02:03)
• Formation of Rock Tape: After being introduced to a superior new tape by a textile expert, Dr. Capobianco and his partner launched Rock Tape around 2010 to address issues of durability and performance.
  • “I called him back a week later and said, what you made here is superior—exactly what I’m looking for.” (03:25)

2. Fundamental Principles Behind Kinesiology Taping

• How it Works: The tape is applied to the skin—highly innervated tissue—to communicate with the brain and "highlight" body areas that may be sensory blind spots.
  • “The only tissue we’re coming in contact with is the skin… it communicates to our central processing unit, our brain.” (08:59)
• Blind Spot Concept: If the brain doesn’t “see” an area, bringing tactile attention to it using tape can improve function and reduce pain.
  • “If we can highlight or bring attention to an area that’s a blind spot… we can actually improve function, we can improve pain.” (09:57)

3. Applications for Autoimmune and Neurological Conditions

• Both Kathy and Dr. Capobianco emphasize that movement is key for MS and autoimmune diseases, and tools like Rock Tape can help make movement safer, reduce inflammation, and support weak joints.
  • “This is not something that’s expensive. This is something that really can work for us.” (12:33)
• Dr. Capobianco frames Rock Tape as a low-risk supplement to medication and standard care.
  • “I just want to be the compliment… It doesn’t mean you have to stop everything else that you’re doing.” (33:56)

4. Science of Fluid Dynamics & Inflammation

• The elasticity of tape microscopically lifts the skin, facilitating “external pumping” of fluid—helpful for both acute and chronic inflammation.
  • “The tape literally lifts the skin away from underlying tissue… it helps to externally pump the fluid out of an area that’s congested.” (14:53)

5. Fascial Movement Taping (FMT) and Education

• Dr. Capobianco wrote “Fascial Movement Taping,” aimed at teaching the underlying neuroscience of taping—the fascia (connective tissue) responds to touch and communicates with the brain just as the skin does.
  • “Fascial would be more accurate… we’ve learned over the last 20 to 30 years that this network of tissue is alive and highly innervated.” (18:24)
• Rock Tape offers courses through FMT Plus for professionals and laypeople.
  • “FMTplus.com is our hub of education… courses range between two to six hours in duration.” (36:53)

6. Product Innovation: Rock Tape & Partnerships

• The partnership with the UK brand Ray/“Rayon” led to tapes with fabrics that provide dynamic support—flexible at low speeds but stiffer for high-impact or fast movements.
  • “At higher speeds, this material will stiffen. So it adds more support to the tissues that need it.” (21:27)
• Three levels of adhesive are provided for different climates and activity levels (gentle, standard, extra sticky).
  • “I would recommend anyone that’s a high mover or sweats a lot… lean more towards the extra sticky.” (25:27)

7. Broadening Access: Beyond Athletes

• Dr. Capobianco underscores his desire to bring techniques once reserved for elite athletes to those with chronic pain and NDs like MS and Parkinson’s.
  • “I want to bring the athletic training room… to the masses, meaning the MS community, the Parkinson’s community… everyone deserves the same assets.” (28:10)
• Kathy echoes the importance of movement and early intervention in MS, sharing her own experiences as both athlete and trainer.

8. Common Concerns & FAQs

• When applied properly, Rock Tape lasts 3-5 days but performance can vary with activity, water exposure, and climate.
  • “This tape is intended to be applied for multiple days… tape has three different levels of adhesion.” (24:53)
• The discussion covers the difference between traditional cupping and neurosensory cupping techniques, highlighting additional educational offerings by Rock Tape.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Power of Movement for Chronic Disease
  “I watched [my relatives] pass away because they just rested. And I’m like, no, that’s a rule I’m not following.” – Kathy (10:21)

• On Expanding Rock Tape’s Mission
  “If I had to be honest with myself… I get so much joy helping those who are not given the tools and resources they deserve. I want to bring the athletic training room to the masses.” – Dr. Capobianco (28:10)

• On Trying New Solutions
  “Lean into the unknown, because quite often you’ll find something that works for you and meets your needs… there’s very little risk and there could be significant upside.” – Dr. Capobianco (40:25)

• On Complimenting (Not Replacing) Medical Care
  “A strip of tape can complement what you’re currently doing. It doesn’t necessarily mean you have to stop everything else that you’re doing.” – Dr. Capobianco (33:56)

• On Practicality and Trust
  “This is not something that’s expensive. This is something that really… can work for us.” – Kathy (12:33)

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Important Timestamps

• Rock Tape Origin Story: 02:03 – 03:41
• Explanation of Sensory Blind Spot: 08:59 – 10:21
• Autoimmune Community Relevance: 12:33 – 13:57
• Fluid Dynamics & Reducing Swelling: 13:57 – 15:34
• Fascial Movement Taping & Book Discussion: 17:37 – 19:59
• Product Science: Rayon Partnership & Smart Tape: 20:32 – 22:18
• Adhesion, Use Conditions, & FAQ: 24:18 – 26:12
• The Future: Broadening Access: 27:31 – 29:00
• Complimenting Standard Care: 33:35 – 33:56
• FMT Plus and Professional Education: 36:53 – 39:27
• Advice for the Community: 40:25 – 41:25

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Final Advice & Call to Action

• Dr. Capobianco encourages listeners:
  “Lean into the unknown. I’m not suggesting that tape solves all problems… Sometimes it could be just a simple strip of tape. There’s very little risk and there could be significant upside.” (40:25)
• Kathy reinforces:
  “Don’t be afraid to try new things. This is easy breezy… put it where it hurts. You’re going to see me with it all over.” (41:55)

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Resources & Further Information

• Rock Tape & Education: FMTplus.com
• Kathy Chester’s Website: msdisrupted.com

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This episode offers validating and accessible information for people with MS, other autoimmune diseases, and anyone interested in innovative approaches to movement and pain—the blend of clinical insight and personal story makes it both instructive and inspiring.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Your host, Kathy Chester. And welcome to the Move it or Lose it podcast, a podcast about all things that move the mind, body and soul. The Move it or Lose it podcast is for information, awareness and inspirational purposes only. I am not a doctor and I don't even play one on tv, so please consult your doctor before making any medical decisions. The views expressed by advertisers, guests or contributors are their opinions and not necessarily the views of the Move it or Lose it podcast. Hello, Move it or Lose it podcast. Thanks for being here today. This morning I have the co founder of Rock Tape, Steven and usa. Do you just tell me Cabo Bianco.

[B]

No, you did it just right.

[A]

I did it. Okay, good. I don't think I did, but so great to have you here. I remember using your tape as a trainer in the beginning in the gym and then having my own studio. I would use it oftentimes probably not correctly. I probably didn't use the tape correctly, so. But they said I did. I used it for myself. It was just something that didn't think years later I'd be interviewing you. So thank you for being on here. Lots of things that I just have always really loved the tape. So now I'm just excited and been geeking out on Rock Tape and all the things that it's been used for and how long it's been around. So thank you. I want to know so many things about you. You're the co founder. You also teach the courses on how to use it. You're a chiropractor. And when you're the co founder, when did you start working with Rock Tape? What got you into. I would do used it in chiropractor, I'm sure. And when you were as your chiropractor, you use it, Correct? Correct.

[B]

I started. So I've been practicing for 23 years. Okay, maybe pushing 24. And I have to check. But regardless, I'd say about 10 years into my practice, in 2010, 2009, 2010, I was using another form of kinesiology tape. Really the grandfather of this category of tape, which is called kinesio tape, developed by a chiropractor named Kenzo Kase. And I was trained under that umbrella. I was using their tape. I was practicing in Northern California at the time, working primarily on endurance athletes. What I was, it just ended up being right time, right place where I was having difficulty with this tape, not necessarily on how it was working. It was function of the tape on the body of the individuals that I was working with. Just wasn't lasting. And so an individual showed up. We were introduced by mutual friends. I was the local taping guy and he had created what, what he would call a better widget. He came in with some experience in textiles, made a better tape, according to him, and he wanted me to test it, of which I did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I called him back a week later and I said, I said, what you made here is, is superior is exactly what I'm looking for. He didn't know what to do with the product. So at that point we band together and we created the brand rock tape.

[A]

Wow. What year is that?

[B]

That was 2010 when we. And you know, I created the education.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The, you know, the messaging. And then he obviously was the, the wizard as it relates to the product. And we were just good team developed at that time.

[A]

Really cool because that like goes right along with when I started using the tape. And I remember having trouble with it. Not the rock tape, but the other one when I was, you know, doing, gosh, back then I was doing a lot of high intensity and then a lot of boot camp kind of things and then moving on to the studio gyms and using that. And then I remember rock tape coming out and it was being brought in and it was like, you know, try this. And I was like, gosh, this is different. This is kind of. It just works better and so it's cool. I remember that coming out and just kind of like, this is different, it works better. So very interesting. And so you were able to use it more on. So when it came out, it was still being used more on athletes.

[B]

Yeah, I would say the majority of the, of the individuals that use this tape really, because an athlete named Kerry Walsh, a US beach volleyball player, had it on her shoulder in the 08 Olympics in Asia. And it really sparked a lot of conversation here in the western world of what this tape was, you know, how it worked, what would it benefit someone experiencing similar types of symptoms? And so really it was it sparked from the sports medicine arena.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But over the last, let's say 15, 16 years, moving into, into today, we're seeing, and this is one of the reasons I think we were connected is the use of this tape, according to what the literature is telling us, can be used for similar types of symptoms that other non athletes experience. I think a great opportunity for us to share what this can actually do.

[A]

To help people for sure. Absolutely. And you are a former hockey player being Canadian, so you were using that, I'm sure, not the rock tape back then. So you were using the tape. Gosh. Did you use it every game? Were you using it a lot back then? Go ahead.

[B]

Yeah, no, this has been around. This tape's been around since.

[A]

Okay. Because I was gonna say, I thought 1989, it was in for one of the. It was for gymnastics, right? Was it in Japan?

[B]

I don't recall.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

What? You know, where the exposure really became.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Lighted. But I know that this, this category tape has been in existence since the late 70s.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So it's not new. And this is just, again, our awareness of it has just become more over the last 15, 16 years.

[A]

Yeah. I cannot tell you how excited I am to announce my partnership with foot Scientific. Their Elevate360 drop foot solution is amazing. It's lightweight, it has customized sizing, which is amazing. I've been in braces where they are much too big and bulky. This one has memory foam. It's comfortable. I have walked my dog, I have run with it already. I have danced in it. And it is amazing. It has stainless steel anchors which you can wear them in any shoe you want to. But to be able to have them connect to your laces so that you can lift the foot so that the drop foot isn't so bad and know that they're safe in there is so incredible to be able to have this, to be able to have it on your ankle and then attach it to a tennis shoe, to attach it to a heel actually, or a sandal is absolutely amazing. I cannot tell you how excited I am to be a part and partner up with Foot Scientific. They are truly here to meet our needs. So I encourage you to go on to the [e-mail] check them out and of course use my discount code. It is Ms. Disrupted, all caps 30 and you'll get $30 off your pair. And also don't forget 60 day guarantee. If it doesn't work for you, then you can return it. And that is why I love But Scientific. They are a company that truly cares about our needs. So don't forget, check them out. I love my partnership with them. Have a great day. But yeah, absolutely. Some of the stuff that I was reading too, which gets into my world of working with autoimmune diseases. People with Ms. Like myself, I've been seeing it and more patients being open to it, you know, like so, like part of the things that gets me excited with that is reduces inflammation, right? Because we need to know that improves pain. We need that stabilizes muscle and joints again for all of us. Now explain this because a lot of people won't understand this sensor blind spot concept. What is that?

[B]

Yeah, the sensory blind spot was just my way of trying to communicate how this form of tape applied to the skin, of which it's applied to the skin of the body. We start thinking about muscles and joints, but we forget that the only tissue that we're actually coming in contact with with this tape is the skin. And realizing that the skin is highly innervated, Meaning that it has all these sensors in it, Just like we do on a keyboard on a computer. We have the keys that communicate that information to the. The central processing unit.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We have the same thing in our bodies. We have keys in our skin.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Communicate to the central processing unit, which is our brain.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

When. When that communication is. Is compromised. And I know that to be true when it comes to the Ms. Community.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The communication from the body to the brain and vice versa is compromised.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What we're learning is, and the evidence is starting to support us on this, this idea that if we can highlight or bring attention to an area that is that there's a blind spot that the brain can't see, we can actually improve function, we can improve pain.

[A]

Right.

[B]

By bringing that spotlight, using that concept of a spotlight to the area.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Because I will see patients with very tight ankles. Right. And we can put that tape on there, and they're trying to squat or we're trying to do things like, I mean, really, it's, you know, it's a brain injury, like a stroke or anything else. And so it's okay. We're going to. And I never stopped. I think that's why I'm still able to do so much and run and do things that I. When people look at me and say, how did you have this disease for 25 years? What are you doing? How can this be? Well, I never stopped moving back in the day. When I was diagnosed, they were like, lay down, rest. It was a VHS tape. And I was like, I follow rules, but this rule I'm not following. It doesn't make any sense. My grandfather had it and my aunt had it, and I watched them pass away because they just rested. And I'm like, no, not. That's a rule I'm not following. And so there was too much schooling. I was too athletic. It made no sense to me. So that was something that, for me, I watched people get tight. I watched her ankles. I watched atrophy. We know how fast that happens. And so with patients now that didn't move that I'm working with. I see that all the time, that they're so tight with their hips, their ankles and all those things, their knees. And so I'm finding them to be a little more open. So that was a big reason, having you on, not just because you're amazing, but having that understanding that this helps so much in this arena that is. Is new for them. They're like rock tape. I used that when I was 20, before I even had this. And. And it's like, no. And it's. You know, some of so many of us are still working. It's like, no. I want. I want you to. When you're hurt, I want to see you put this where it hurts. So if it's your back or your knee, wherever it's hurting or your shoulder starts to hurt, I want you to put it there and keep it there. And so they're. They're becoming more. More just kind of getting an idea, getting a little more interested in it. And I think when they start to see the benefit of it, they're going to say, okay, I'm going to do it more. And that's just. I think, honestly, Steve, I would say that it is because we get fed stuff a lot. You know, a lot of. A lot of things come to us and it doesn't work. And so they get. The Ms. Community gets very tired of it, and they think it's just a ploy for us to buy and purchase things. This is not something that's expensive. This is something that really is. That can work for us. And I am really excited. And I. And I truly love, you know, talking with you and I. I've heard so many great things about you, and that, I think, speaks to your character, your integrity. And when I hear that and I'm able to speak with and interview someone like you, it means a lot to me. Because when I'm in those communities, they trust me. And if I support that, then it. They feel comfortable with that. They know that I'll never support something that I don't believe in. And I, Because I've used it for so long, it's something that I truly believe in. Okay, one other question. Talk to me about improving fluid dynamics.

[B]

Yeah. So my assumption is not being someone that experiences the symptoms associated with ms, but, you know, if we're dealing with.

[A]

I thought you had it, Stephen. I thought we were like this. I don't want you to ever have it.

[B]

But. But my point is, is that when it comes to inflammation control, we have options. There are plenty of Options that are available, you know, over the counter, you know, prescribed, you know, anti inflammatories. That's generally what are a lot of people are kind of directed to, because that's kind of the. The model that we live in.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But there are, There are other means of managing inflammation, acute and chronic. And what I'm always looking for, especially as a. An alternative medicine practitioner, I'm looking for alternatives that my patients present with saying, I need an alternative because I don't want to take this drug, or it just doesn't work for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so the use of tape on the skin, just like what we just talked about as using it as a sensory tool to highlight an area of the body that the brain can't see. This tape is elastic. So just like any elastic band, when you put it on a surface, it will recoil and that recoil mechanically. And I'm using my arm as an example, but it literally lifts the skin away from underlying tissue. And what we're learning with that is that it actually helps to externally pump the fluid out of an area that's congested. So we're using it as an external method of managing both acute and chronic inflammation.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. Thank you for explaining that. Because I know people will read that and they'll ask me and I'll. I'll completely say it. Like, they'll be like, what? So thank you for explaining that. Some of the things I, when I was looking at, talk to me about. Well, first off, is your book. So you were the author of Facial Movement Taping. Is it on audible?

[B]

It is not. That's a. That's something. An exercise that I need to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I always been told I do a lot of voiceovers for my. My teaching instructor team, and they all say I have a voice that.

[A]

Oh, yeah, you know, but should people asleep?

[B]

That's exactly what.

[A]

I don't think that at all.

[B]

So I might. I might do the exercise, but I might not use my voice moving forward. Oh, no, it's not on audible. Unfortunately not at this.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, for a lot of Ms. Patients, like, I can't see. It's just an ornament out of my right eye. It's just a pretty blue ornament. But I have been able to see out of that. That was like. My first symptom was optic neuritis. So there's so many of us that they can't. I remember someone asking me why in the Ms. Clinic if the cars are all this way? I'm like, seriously? You've known me for how many years. Do you think a lot of us have good eyesight? If you're going into an Ms. Clinic, that's on you. You're taking your own risk. So, yeah, I mean, we love it. I've had, like, some of the doctors I've interviewed just bring their books to Audible and I'm like, thank you. Because it's, you know, there's so many we want to read. And I have a patch on this and I'm trying to, like, read it, but yes, please bring it to Audible. But we, we love it when you guys have your own voice on there because, you know, we've. We've listened to you. And I, I just got one of a doctor that I love, I interviewed him, and it's some lady's voice, and I'm like, what? Like, this isn't the same. You're British. And what. So I would say for sure. So you obviously. Facial movement, taping. Talk to me about that. What is. What is that?

[B]

Well, like I said when I.

[A]

Because I can't read it.

[B]

One of the things that we have been doing since the publishing of that book was that we've expanded the way that we deliver the message using video content and other ways. So there are other ways of learning the model that we've initially presented, but when it comes to. It's said differently depending on the audience. There's the facial movement and facial. And unfortunately, the facial starts to confuse people, thinking that it has to do with something to do with the face, of which it's not. Fascial movement. Taping is ultimately talking about the. The science, the neuroscience.

[A]

So it's fascial, not facial?

[B]

Yeah, it said both my eyesight, but the. But. But fascial would be more accurate because it doesn't confuse the reader or the learner in respect to thinking that it has to do with the face when it comes to facial. So the model is just based on what the neuroscience is as it relates to this layer of connective tissue just below the skin. So we've forgotten. And those that study human anatomy, we learn about this network of tissue, but we generally thought of it as just a packaging system that kind of pitches our muscles, our tendons, our ligaments, our nerves. But we've learned over the last 20 to 30 years is that this network of tissue is alive and it's highly innervated, and it talks to the brain just like the skin does. And so what I did in respect to this education is just teaching people that when we Touch, either using human touch or using something like a strip of tape or, or vibration that we're stimulating the receptors, those sensors that I just talked about in the skin that also live in the fascia that talk to the brain. It's basically improving the conversation with the brain so then the brain can make a better decision. And that actually has an effect on all the things that you refer to earlier?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

It helps with pain, it helps with movement, it helps with all the things that, you know, we know to be compromised in the Ms. Community.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Just taking advantage of touch on the skin fascia can actually improve that conversation.

[A]

With the brain 100%. I love that. And I loved, I saw the videos that you're obviously working with Paul's devices. So you've got the tape. And, and I did that and then I talked to Ethan, I said, I've already done it. He's like, oh. I'm like, you know, I don't, I just, I just mess around with that to see if it works. And, and I really do. So talk to me also about the rock tape. And I loved the engineered with the, with the ran. Is that, am I saying that right?

[B]

Yeah. Ray is a brand. Yeah, It's a, it's a company out of the UK that we partnered with and what, what I've noticed over the last, you know, 20 plus years of my career, that there's really been no innovation in respect to tape. We have cotton athletic tape, then you know, the rigid tape that for decades.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Tape really hasn't changed. And just for the, for the listener and the viewer of this podcast, you know, kinesiology tape is just cotton and nylon woven together. And really there's been no innovation to the, the fabric or, or the adhesive used when it comes to use of this tape. But what I did working, partnering with Rayon is that we applied, we medically adhered this, this super polymer. I'll explain what that means. Second.

[A]

But it's woven in, right?

[B]

Yeah, we, we, we actually adhered it to our tape. And what that does is that it takes advantage of elastic therapeutic tape, which, which rock tape is. But now we've added another layer of quote unquote support. And how this, how this material supports tissue is that at slow speeds, when you're, let's say, for example, when you're walking, this material will flex just like cotton and nylon does. So it doesn't necessarily add any significant support at slow speeds. But let's say you go from walking to running or jumping, something that involves increase in speed. This Material will actively stiffen accordingly. So at higher speeds, this material will stiffen. So it adds more support to the tissues that need it.

[A]

Yeah, no, I loved that idea. And like, when. And I mean, there's, you know, I have my clients that are, you know, in a wheelchair bound, and they would use that for, you know, slow movement. But I also have my high intensity, which, which my clients are. I'm just like, man, let's go. And they're bodybuilders and things like that that I work with, where I get my heavy weights out. And it's like, all right, we're going to do chest press and stuff like that. Where they were. They would love that. And I just watched the video on it and I was like, whoa, like, I'm in. I want to get that because, you know, I do my, my workouts with my Ms. Patients, but I also have my, my healthy patients as well, where that challenges me, you know, to jump on the bosie ball and, you know, do burpees and all those things. Like, can I still do that? Can I do. I saw that balance and, and that's. I love that idea because, you know, I can't do it every day. But I looked at that tape and I was like, oh, I want that. So, you know, because we do still have high functioning multiple sclerosis patients that are still, you know, crossfitting. They're still doing this stuff. Now, I do get those CrossFit people that come back to me after they've had a broken back or something, and they're like, can I do this? I'm like, yes. And, and. But I do have a great relationship with CrossFit. I love them. So I, I think that when I, I gaped out on that, I was like, what a great, what a great idea for. Just to move that into a better tape for those who, who are doing fast, you know.

[B]

Exactly. Right. So we're just, we just wanted to innovate. I wanted to innovate creating something that solved the problem. And the problem would. Your point is this. When needed, this tape can actually actively, like, like, like a smart material.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Will actively support the area more aggressively than traditional kinesiology.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So it just adds another layer of support.

[A]

How many calls do you get? Because I, I know with, like, clients, I think it's funny, they'll be swimming in summertime, they'll be outside on the boat, and two days later, like, it's coming off. I'm like, you were in the water. Like, it's, it's water resistant, but You've been swimming for two days. Like, what are your expectations of this tape?

[B]

Yeah, I think, I think people forget that one. This tape is intended to be applied for multiple days, so as a, as a general rule, the tape should stay on and we'll talk about kind of the best practices when it comes to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That duration in time. But it's three to five days on the body part now. I, I used to do triathlons, even to the ironman distance. And I really, I've had the tape stay on my body from the beginning of the race to the end. And this is consistently true for athletes that I've treated for my whole career. The caveat is, is that, you know, you need to understand that this form of tape has three different levels of adhesion, meaning gentle, standard and extra sticky.

[A]

It's in the website.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which. I love that you put that in there.

[B]

Yeah. I would recommend anyone that's like a, a high mover or sweats a lot. I, I live in the Austin area, so that we're talking about living on the face of the sun. There's more chances of perspiration, so knowing that I generally will lean more so towards the extra sticky versus the, the others. So that would be my first, you know, comment to those that are having issues with the tape lasting less than three days.

[A]

Right. So if you're in a hot climate, you should just think about that. Like if you're sweating a lot. Correct. Get the stickiest tape, get it stickier because you're going to probably lose it a little bit quicker.

[B]

That's right. That's right.

[A]

Common sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

Great question. Yeah, man, you put me on the spot on this one.

[A]

I'm sorry, I Said they didn't give me anything.

[B]

It's a great question, and I didn't set you up for success as it relates to, like, questions that I want. Feel that I don't feel comfortable with giving any of the interviews that I do. But that question's a stopper for me because it gets me to think, what do I want to do professionally? If that's the question, I would say I want to lean into other categories. And this is why I got so excited about this opportunity to speak with you. You know, I've been in the sports medicine field. Rock tape has been identified, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Positively and negatively, focusing on the, you know, the traditional athlete. And if I, if I had to be honest with myself, I work primarily with chronic pain sufferers. That, that's been like the transition of my career, my professional career. And I get so much joy of helping those that are not given the tools and resources that they deserve. And so what I'm trying to do, and this is probably my answer to your question in a long winded way, is that I want to bring. I want to bring the athletic training room that, that athletes, professional and elite athletes have been getting for decades and bring it to the masses, meaning the Ms. Community, the Parkinson's community, community, they all deserve the same assets that professional athletes get. So that, that would be my answer.

[A]

And I think that's. And I love that too, because, you know, one of the things that I teach, and I got this advice years ago is that, you know, when, when you're very, when you are an athlete and something like Ms. Gets you. And for some of us, I can sit right next to someone that was diagnosed yesterday and they go to ppms and they're in a wheelchair. And sometimes that's difficult because they look at me like when we were diagnosed 20, almost 25 years ago, and they're like, what? And so it's just a disease that does what it wants. And that's a difficult one. But I would also say that the earlier. I also run a support group with a podcast and, you know, I just can't do enough stuff. But I would love to get, when I do the support group, our early diagnosed client patients, to understand if you keep that body moving, it's our best defense. And if you can do this and if you understand the pulse device, the rock tape, if you can get those things to kind of help you when you are stiff and understand that there are things out there besides all the medication that they want to throw at you, there are things that we can do to keep our bodies moving. It may not always look like through the years, like we may not be able to do high intensity stuff all the time, but it is so powerful to see different companies moving into that area that they see us and we feel. Because oftentimes it feels like no one sees us. But again, back to what I the advice I got was to do something you haven't done. So someone that's very athletic, it's difficult for them to go back to that sport, especially honestly, especially males, because it's really difficult. If they were very athletic, you can imagine going back to hockey and they can't do it. They can't be on their legs, they don't have that leg strength anymore. So oftentimes I will give the advice of try something you, you've not done before. For me, I don't know why I thought I'm going to start running long distance. Don't know why I thought that was good. I couldn't feel my feet, but I thought, well, they're hitting gravity says they're hitting the ground. But that was mine, that was what I wanted to do and triathlons. So that's why I was like, yeah, I love that. So that was my big thing to do. I'd never done that. I played every sport. But you know, that's not endurance running. And so that's what I loved. I mean, I was followed every time. But they just, they just told me they, you know, put bubble wrap around me. So now I, you know, the tape I used for those injuries and it was different. And that's what I found years ago with the swelling and the Ms. Stuff. But I didn't know if it was just me or if it was actually doing something. So through the years I noticed it was doing something different. With ms, it was taking swelling down in the joints because I have rheumatoid. I picked these up like Pokemon cards, telling you it was not good enough. I had the Ms. But then I got rheumatoid. So with the rheumatoid and the swelling I noticed that immense. So it's just really neat to now be with you and explain to others that this works. And I've known it for years, so it, I love that you're getting more into that community.

[B]

Yeah, of course. And you know, to be able to do so with authenticity and, and, and just real information. I'm, I'm a curious learner. You know, you talk to any of the ones that I work with, I'm head deep into the literature, as a general rule. So then I can, I can present to any community and say, here's what the literature is telling us. Here's what we've experienced anecdotally, what I've experienced as a clinician, what you've experienced, and I get to be able to meld those two together so that I can present to someone saying, here's the argument that we're presenting. By no means. And you just brought up as it relates to inflammation. I don't say I want to. I want to, you know, be the alternative. I, I just want to be. The compliment is usually what I said. A strip of tape can complement what you're currently doing. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to stop everything else that you're doing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I, I like the fact that it's a low risk intervention that could be tried and if it gives the outcomes that you're looking for. You just said it yourself, every individual is going to present differently. So I just, I want to present them the information that makes it safe and controlled, and then they can take it and experience it themselves.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so last question. So see, cognitive fog. And like, where'd it go? If, if you could have seen yourself doing this, or let me go back. Could you have seen yourself doing anything else? And is this, is this a career you would have chose and how happy are you and how excited are you to move forward in it? Gosh. That was four questions in one. Sorry.

[B]

Yeah, I. Again, you're asking such, you know, loaded questions that you really forced me to think. You know, I've been in. I again, I'm 23 years into my chiropractic know program, but before I became.

[A]

You look like you're 25, so I'm trying to figure out how that's possible.

[B]

I Wish it was 25, but I. I'm in my mid-50s. I have a birthday.

[A]

No, you're not. Stop it.

[B]

I am. And when I was in my 20s doing my master's, I did my master's in adapted kinesiology, which is.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Just ultimately working with. With. With neurodegenerative disease. To be honest, right at that time, my.

[A]

That's funny that you did that.

[B]

Professional goal was to move into my PhD in doing research. I met. I met someone that was doing some significant work with the cohort that I was studying at the time and, and demonstrated that. That they could make a significant change in someone's function in a very short amount of time, and that was a chiropractor. Manipulating the study group that I was working with.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I'm saying all of this because I didn't think chiropractic would have been something that I would strive towards.

[A]

Okay, yeah. That's what I want to know.

[B]

Right. But I got. I got to meet someone that was making significant change. I'm so thankful for the opportunity, able to witness that and change my focus in respect to what I wanted to do professionally. And I'm just so blessed to be able to do what I'm doing now, because as a. The traditional chiropractor, I'm not the one that you look at. I'm. I'm one that took the opportunity from my experience to be able to start a brand like Rock Tape, but more importantly, start a community. Just like what we're having right now is, is. Is broadening the discussion of what we can do to help people move and feel better. And that includes someone that's experiencing Ms. To an elite athlete looking to do some thing at the Olympics. So I, I'm just really thankful for the position that I'm in now that I still have, you know, a further Runway to travel on to be able to make some change.

[A]

Absolutely. That. Great, great answer. The courses that you teach, how often do they. How often do you teach them and what. What do they look like?

[B]

Yeah, the. The. We have an education platform. So again, I'm. I'm bifurcating the product Rock Tape to the education. The education brand is called fmt. The acronym stands for functional movement training. And you can find all of our content on FMT PLUS.com and that. That education platform houses education that'll be.

[A]

At the bottom of the show notes so you don't have to, like, stop and don't stop your car.

[B]

FMTplus.com is, is. Is our hub of education, where we house education on kinesiology tape. Of course, our other tools that we offer within our category are instrument assisted tools, tools that help to improve tissue mobility. We have courses on cupping therapy, on floss.

[A]

I haven't done that yet. I'm so. I don't know why I'm so afraid of the cupping.

[B]

Most people are because of what the. The remnants are, which is more of a traditional cupping, which would be, I call them the cupping hickeys, the little bruises. And so the model that we teach, and this is why education is so important, is learning about, you know, a technique that you might have been afraid of learning, what the evidence is saying, and potentially different models of application. Our model of cupping is significantly different than A traditional Eastern.

[A]

I noticed that watching it, because it doesn't. It kind of moves around.

[B]

Right. It's meant, it's meant to be on for a short amount of time. Again, using the neurosensory model of thinking, getting that conversation of a body part to the brain. The traditional model of making a change to energy flow concepts that aren't as well understood here in the Western world. My point is that we teach what the science is telling us and then you could figure out the application according to what your scope of practice is. So that's what FMT plus is, is multiple courses on how to manipulate the body to be able to improve function and overall sensation.

[A]

How long is the course?

[B]

They're all courses range between, let's say, two hours to six hours. In the professional realm, when we're talking about physical therapists, athletic trainers, chiropractors, massage therapists. Right. They generally need continuing education credits.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And so we provide continuing education accredited courses between two to six hours in duration.

[A]

Great. That's awesome. I love that you do that. That's kind of what I'm, I'm going towards now because I'm kind of at the top of what I can teach of what I do and I'm like, I need to actually now teach a course. So. Yeah. That's awesome. I love, I love what you're doing. I love the idea of Rock Tape moving into these different areas. Again, I'm just, I'm so grateful to have met you. I love the idea of collaborating and see where you're going into this field and see where you are soon. I know you are very busy, so I'm very grateful that you took the time to be with me today and to really explain to my audience and so they understand this even more and to, to really help them understand that Rock Tape is, is moving into other areas and to explain that. So thank you so much for taking this time with me today and helping them understand a little bit more. Anything else that you want to share?

[B]

I, I would just leave your, your followers with the idea that, you know, lean into the unknown because quite often you'll find something that works for you and, and meets your needs and as it relates to. And I'm not suggesting that tape solves all problems, but because, because of the uncertainty and, and lack of understanding of how this tape works, people just avoid them. I, I would do exactly what you just suggested. Do something that's new and novel for you, just like you said, as it relates to what you're going to be doing in the next year, I would suggest that, you know, look with more curious eyes to, you know, alternate solutions to what you're faced with. And so sometimes that could be just a simple strip of tape. There's very little risk and there could be significant upside. And so just take that, take that calculated risk.

[A]

I love that. And there are so many of us that in the support groups are just so saturated with medication and they're trying to get out of all that. And, and they are looking for solutions other than medication. And so you being able to share all of this today, I know there's going to be a lot of excitement with that and a lot of my, a lot of my people that follow are using the pulse device and so having. And I shared using the tape and then the pulse device over. So I think this will be a really great combination for them to understand. Thinking even my editor was, has a lot of back pain and so I told him to do that and so he did and found he was just really shocked that the pain just, he was able to have relief. He does a lot of the cool video games that, you know, the kids do. And so it just, he was just, there's a lot of sitting and so he just was in a lot of pain. So I mean, what. It works. And, and I love that. So again, thank you so much. I look forward to collaborating with you more. And so, guys, I hope you enjoyed this. Again, listen to what he said. Don't be afraid to try new things. And I know sometimes we get nervous about that, but this is easy breezy. This isn't a big deal. So try this and see what you think. And I always say, put it where it hurts. Don't be afraid of that. And you're going to see me with it all over, so you'll know because I'll be sharing with you what it's doing for me. So again, thank you for being on. And don't miss this one. It'll be I'll let you know when it's coming on and don't miss this one. So have a great week, guys, and I will see you next time on Move it or Lose It. And don't forget what you don't move, you're going to lose. So bye, guys. Have a great day. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of the Move it or Lose it podcast. It would mean the world to me if you subscribed and left a review. Remember, you can find me on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher and YouTube New episodes of the Move it or Lose It Podcast Air every other Wednesday. If you have any suggestions for future guests or topics, please visit my [e-mail]. until next time.